Transcript of The Big Suey: Samson Is In The Epstein Files (feat. David Samson)

Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebitard podcast.

I'm sorry. I'm not going to apologize for that.

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching band to nowhere, Fatface and the Pitchou a Liar.

This episode of the Dan Labetard Show is presented by DraftKings. Draftkings, the Crown is yours.

We're going to get to David Samson in five minutes here to talk about an assortment of things throughout sports worth talking about and outside of Sports. But before we do that, I want to play for all of you a clip with Brandon Marshall. I don't know if any of you guys know this. He was on South Beach Sessions today. It released today. And he came in hot, and he disarmed me off the top. There are all sorts of things that people do with interview techniques in order to soften someone off the top. And he alphaed me quick because right off of the top, this is the back and forth. I'm introducing him, and this is where Brandon Marshall and I start. And I'd like to ask David Samson and the rest of you how it is that you would react to this situation if you, like me, think that Brandon Marshall is right on the line of being a borderline Hall of Famer.

Do you really mean what you just said, prolific? Because are you just trying to have a great intro?

No, you had 21 catches in a single game, 6 seasons of 100 catches with no quarterback help. Like your quarterbacks were pretty bad.

Well, I know my stats, but one of the things you just said is one of the most prolific wide receiver ever. And so now you're putting me in the same conversation as the best pass catchers that ever, you know what I'm saying, coming into the NFL.

I don't know how many- Because I'm not in the Hall of Fame right now. It's hard to get into the Hall of Fame as a wide receiver. Do you see me as a Hall of Fame receiver? But I wish you had had better quarter, Bex.

Do you see me as a Hall of Fame wide receiver?

You're right there.

See, that means no.

You're on the edge. That doesn't mean no. I say no. Do you see yourself as one?

Do you have a vote? I don't. Or did you ever have a vote? I don't. No. You should have a vote. But if you had a vote, what would you vote?

Well, I'm in front of you right now. I can't say no. He said no. It's okay. No, No, no, no, no. Wait a minute, though. I'm not saying no because I don't have the numbers in front of me. 6 100 catch seasons is usually good enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Which is number one in the NFL. You knew that?

I did not know that that was number one. That's number one. Well, see, there you go. That's right. And you didn't have a quarterback. You didn't have a legitimate quarterback. You really turned that... No one has ever turned this around on me faster. We just started and you already got me in a corner.

Yeah, I got you in a little pickle. I turned my phone up. I was going to let you read something that one of the Cliff Cliff, who was our... And I don't really care at all, really. I don't. But hearing you say that made me think, does he really mean this? But I was going to turn my phone on and let you read through what our Cliff Chicago Bear, when I was there, he did all the contracts. He was in charge of his salary cap, and he sent me this memo of why I should be in. And it was like, Wow, this is pretty cool. And when you're retired, You see things a little differently. You're more grateful. You slow down a little bit. So it's always cool hearing other people's perspective.

I want to be clear, though. I don't have the numbers in front of me to compare you to why it is that Andre Reid or Tori Holt. I don't have them in front of me. That's the only reason I'm being hesitant. I'm not being evasive, nor am I being dishonest with you. I didn't know, for example, that you were the only receiver with six 100 catch seasons.

Well, there's two. There's myself and Antonio Brown, I believe. I'm tied with maybe him and maybe one other. And it's six in a row is the record. It's not just six because you also have Mike Evans. He's done it. It was like, well, he had 10,000-yard seasons, but 100 catch seasons in a row.

But you say you really don't care? That seems like not easy to believe that you don't care.

I can understand why because of how I started. But basically, you said prolific, one of the most prolific wide receiver. You know this, I'm a podcast host as well. You want the best intro, et cetera. I just wanted to see if you really believe that. That's it.

Samson was smiling throughout all of that. What is your guys' take on all of that? Because my takeaway, my entire takeaway, given how you guys have scarred me over the last couple of days with that AI making me a lot fatter than I actually am, I'm I'm watching this and I am seeing that Brandon Marshall is a good deal bigger than me. He made me look the way that Billy looked next to Derek Henry, like the size of Brandon Marshall next to me when I'm not in any way small. He looks giant compared to me, because I'm 6'3 and a half.

That's perspective, too.

I'm 6'3 and a half. You're right there. What are your thoughts on what just happened?

You're right there was my favorite line of the All right.

You guys understand.

You don't want to answer somebody here.

Well, because I don't have the numbers in front of me.

You're right there. Why can't you just be honest that you don't believe he is?

Well, because I'm not informed the way you would need to to cast that vote.

Which is why you're right there is a great answer. He already said he was one of the most prolific wide receiver.

He can't also say, Hey, yeah, you're not a Hall of Fame.

You're right there is something you say when you don't believe you're in the Hall of Fame, because otherwise, you would say yes.

I don't know.

Do we have the Reggie Miller one? Yes.

All right. Boog Shambi did something cruel to me at the Versace party. We were in front of Reggie Miller. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe subconsciously, I do not realize that I am scarred from this. Are you a Hall of Famer?

No, there's too many other guys that are more deserving than I.

Levitar, do You think he's going in?

No.

I think you are. Yeah, you're going in. It's a good move.

Boog squeezed my knee when he asked it because he knew I didn't think that Reggie belonged. But that's an easier Hall of Fame to get into, and receiver is the hardest way to get into the football Hall of Fame.

It's such a great setup, too, when you're immediately ready to fire back. I think you are.

That's why he squeezed my knee because that was his opinion compared to mine. Samson, what are your thoughts here? Welcome. Nothing personal is the name of his podcast. I urge you to check it out. He is covering a lot of good stuff that no one else dares to talk about. What are your thoughts here? What do you do in that situation?

I feel so safe because he's wearing a trust God sweatshirt, so I could pretty much say anything. He's not going to get physical even with someone my size. You cannot punch someone with a trust God sweatshirt, so I feel like you could have gone way further.

Put it on the poll at Lebitard Show. Can you trust someone with a trust God sweatshirt?

No, that's not what I said.

Okay, can a person who's wearing a trust God sweatshirt punch you at Lebitard show? You didn't really answer the question, though. Okay, so you don't fear it, and what? You I don't know whether or not Brandon Marshall has the numbers to be in the Hall of Fame. The problem with Brandon Marshall, of course, is that he didn't play in any playoff games. Did he play in one? Is there a single playoff game that he ever played? Brandon Marshall? Yeah. Did he play in one?

No, I don't think he played in one.

So this is the thing that I think of when I think of Brandon Marshall, and it's not something that I brought up to him. But in terms of numbers, he's got the numbers that you would need to be in the Hall of Fame from what I remember, but I have not expected them.

Yeah, but I don't know, I don't know, Dan. He went off so fast. He was the only guy with 6 100 catch seasons. And then all of a sudden, no, no. Wait a minute. It was Antonio Brown. Yeah, Mike Evans. No, maybe that was 1,000 yards. Wait a minute. It wasn't in a row. So frankly, I didn't learn anything during that clip. I mean, I watched the whole episode.

It's just him and Antonio Brown, and he played for 13 seasons, but he didn't play in any playoff games, and they're always going to hold the non-winning against you, even if you didn't have a quarterback.

Why do you keep saying he didn't have a quarterback? Because he didn't. Sam Darnold, if they win a ring on Sunday, does everyone who wins a ring, do they get the pass? Hey, you didn't have a quarterback.

Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jay Cutler are the best quarterbacks that Brandon Marshall ever played with. That's ridiculous. To put up those seasons.

I can answer my question about the Seahawks. Is it not real? I don't understand what you're saying. Brian Fitzpatrick, Jake Cutler, those are quarterbacks. They may not be the best quarterbacks. They were the best of 32 at that There were certainly quarterbacks that can get the ball in the hands of their receivers.

They weren't shy about airing it out. They've proven that they can get guys numbers when they're the quarterback. It's not a terrible situation. Yeah, it's not a Hall of Fame or champion-level quarterback there, but It's also not exactly the truth. They're right there.

It's not a terrible situation that he never played in a playoff game and had as many catches as Antonio Brown. You guys are looking at me and saying that? That's not a terrible situation.

No, we're talking about two different things. I don't think his quarterback situation was as bad.

His quarterback situation is the reason he never played in a playoff game. It's not because he wasn't excellent enough to be a playoff player.

That's correct.

No, that's not correct. You can have Payton Manning in the Broncos won a Super Bowl. It wasn't a good Payton Manning. They had a great defense. Payton Manning was worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jake Cutler the year the Broncos won their Super Bowl recently. And this year, right now, Seattle's defense is a Super Bowl-winning defense. Jake Cutler, can you imagine? Sam Darnold? I just think that you're, What about all the dolphins for the past 25 years? Not one playoff win. Therefore, you can't have a Hall of Famer because they must not have had a good enough team.

Give me a break. Jake Cutler did make an NFC Championship game without Marshall.

So you guys would have done what in that situation? Tell the truth.

I wouldn't have started with prolific.

You just say he's a Hall of Famer. Like, play the game.

What do you mean?

You just say, Yes, sure. Hall of Famer.

Yeah, but look at how David smiles and says, Yeah, just lie. Just lie to his face. But you didn't offer that as advice when I keep asking you, What do you do? You didn't say, Just lie to his face. Just say whatever it is he wants to hear and keep it moving.

That's what being a host is. If you're trying to get him to open up and you're trying to get down deep into his emotions so there can be the tearshot with only one camera, then you got to start by at least saying, Yeah, of course you're a Hall of Famer. Let's Let's talk about your parents.

But then on the next episode, you then admit to your audience what you did, and you just did it to be a good host, and you don't actually believe he's a Hall of Famer?

I'm sorry, audio audience, but they are again distorting the size of things and people. I'll be like five feet taller.

Visual show day, man.

Now, Brandon Marshall is legitimately twice the size of me, which is hard because did you see the size of me yesterday? The size of me yesterday. This is It's asinine what it is that they're doing around here. It's the perpetual whack-amole. Imagine how big Brandon Marshall has to be to be bigger than I am there. A number of things inside and outside of business to talk to David Samson about. I imagine that the President of ESPN, Jimmy Pataro, is wounded by the fact that Disney has decided to replace Bob Iger with somebody who basically just run the parks? Is it fair to say that ESPN has now become a line item in the Disney portfolio, that they are getting into something different than content when it comes to priorities, given that at one point, ESPN was the thing at Disney that made more money for Disney than any other thing.

At one point, you were not the fat bastard. So yes, that was ESPN at one point. It's just not that point today. Espn has been a line item at Disney for a while, and what this line of succession has done, it's basically made Jimmy Pitaro somewhat of a eunic, where he has to perform as a silo in a way that he's not going to get the 20 million to get another Steven A. Smith to the extent that that would even be something they'd want. They're going to have to perform as an entity that helps the overall stock price of Disney because they, the board, voted to bring in tomorrow. And what his job is basically run a company that will get us EPS, will get us earnings per share. And so ESPN will have to be profitable. They will have to find a way. The old days of cable and everything that Skipper did when they were printing money and they were the behemoth of getting every sports right live and just every anchor, everybody wanted to be the ESPN. Those days are over, and that's proven by who Disney named to succeed Bob Iger.

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Dan Levatard. Tata's. Stugats. Tata's.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugats.

We are doing a Trade Deadline Show live today, a livestream from 2: 00 to 4: 00 PM, although Zaslow has threatened to leave at 3: 00 one if the heat do not acquire Yannis. Because I'm always telling you that David Samson tackles stuff that no one else is tackling in the sports media, Roger Goodell had to sidestep the entire issue during Super Bowl week of one of your owners, Tisch of the Giants, is in the Epstein files. What did you make of Goodell's response? What do you do in that situation If you're Gödel or anyone else, the media is not covering this very well. The Epstein files are being talked about everywhere else in media, not in sports. And here's an NFL owner right in the middle of this, right in the middle of this in a way that cannot go unnoticed, never mind unpunished if it's true, if any of the allegations are true and any of the denials from him are false. But what do you make of what it is that Roger Goodell should be doing here?

Well, first, Josh Harris must have great PR because you did not mention his name And he appears in there, and he had to release a statement, which he did. And of course, Steve Tisch released a statement where he wanted to make sure we all knew that it was adults who he was referring to, not children, because that is beyond the third rail if you're dealing with underage sex trafficking. But if you're just dealing in your run-of-the-mill, Russian people who get paid by the hour, let's not make ourselves crazy. And so Roger Goodell sits down and does an interview and says, Let's just get the facts Let's not talk about punishment. Let's just see where we are, as though he's Adam Silver talking about Steve Ballmer and salary cap circumvention, which obviously is not nearly as important as something that may involve human sex trafficking and felonies. And so what Goodell should have done is immediately said, Of course, we're going to investigate this. For crying out loud, they investigate everything. Just say, We are investigating because we do not want our sports to be associated with the possibility of trafficking of underage girls. And so we started that immediately and then stopped, not said another word.

But he tried to upset the reporter by saying, Why are you trying to get ahead of yourself? Why are you talking about punishment? I thought that he got super defensive when he didn't need to be.

The move then is just to say, because you can't give it air, right? If Goodell gives it anything in the way of air, if he says anything, then it becomes yet more attention to something he doesn't actually want attention on. You're saying the public relations advice is simply to say what he said, part of what he said, which is we need to get all the facts. We're investigating. Hard stop.

Yeah, just say you're investigating, and then you started behind the scenes negotiation with Tisch because where this needs to end is where Tisch is no longer part of the NFL with the Giants. You may not make him sell his shares, but not to meetings, not be a part of NFL Jules events. And you have to look at the different layers of what you're calling the Epstein files. It's a data dump of all emails and all correspondence condenses. That's not enough. You have to look and see what is in an email or a text or what is the relationship that is with Epstein or in terms of, were you doing things with Epstein you shouldn't have been doing? Were you asking him to do things for you that no one should ask to have done? So it does require multi-layers, and that's why you say, Hey, we're going to investigate it.

You guys may not have noticed what David did there because what he did there was accurate. There is a lot of information inside of there that is not incriminating, and I'm going to say something to you that's going to shock everybody in the room. Samson is in the Epstein files.

That's Dan. I saw that. Dan, stop.

You just gave the context beforehand by saying, You just gave the context.

When you just say it like that, you get aggregated, Samson's in the Epstein files. No, no. Let me be clear. I am part of a charity called Challenged Athletes Foundation. I'm on the board. And the invitation to a dinner where I was listed with my family as a sponsor of the dinner, an invitation was attached in an email sent to Maxwell saying, Would you like to come to this charity dinner? And my name somehow I was searchable because of that. And it's literally, it's obviously nothing. I don't know, Maxwell. I don't know. I'm a charity. I'm on the board of a charity called CAF. And I don't know, I've seen never met. I don't even have one degree of separation that I knew of. And And so, yes, that's why you have to go deeper. You can't just assume by reading something that, Oh, that's true, which is why you say there's an investigation.

Thank you for the podcast episode title. The Big Suey, Samson is in the Epstein files.

He is in the Epstein files, and he offered you the context beforehand that explains some of this.

When I- The context will be totally absent from the episode title. That's the game we play. You're right there.

It makes me want to listen. Do you guys realize how long it takes to read three million documents? I don't know how they were doing this, and I know many of the mistakes that have been made that have somehow protected some people who probably shouldn't be protected. It's a cesspool. I know.

It's a cesspool, not just the files themselves, but for misinformation, because no one's going to go through the files. They're just waiting for Pablo to sift through them and give it to them in bite-size portions because there are so many fake emails out there. There's one about World War III starting on Sunday. This is how misinformation spreads. It's because it's believable enough. Think about what we're talking about, which is just all so surreal that people are inclined believe something on the internet even more with this.

It is so surreal when you think of the President's name being in there, whatever it is, 38,000 times, even with the redactions, the idea that Trump is now suing Harvard for $1 billion and the New York Times for $15 billion, and the IRS, which he now runs so that he can get a settlement. The amount of things that are in the news stream here, David, this is baffling to me and hard to stomach. Some of the QAnon stuff started with the idea of Pizzagate and the idea that the left was running a child sex trafficking ring outside of a pizza shop to see an assortment of things that could topple any president before this one, make an appearance every single week, and that the only thing that he couldn't get past would be a pedophilia scandal. And yet here he is right in the middle of one that he can't get around, and he Don Lemon and does a bunch of different shit to try and keep distracting from the fact that he's front and center in the middle of this, even as the Department of Justice tries to protect him.

I have thought so long about what would happen if Watergate were today, would President Nixon have resigned? Go back and think about what he was doing and what Watergate was. If your audience, I guess, listen, you didn't even talk about Weston Seldon, Elvin Hayes saying the Wizards and Bullets have been irrelevant your whole life, which is obviously wrong, but people listen to you and think you know what you're talking about. So I don't know if people know about Watergate or if we're too old for that. But what is acceptable behavior today, given social media, given how public everything is, given the invasion of privacy, given the expectation of information that people have, whether it's right or wrong, what would Nixon have done today? And the answer is he wouldn't have resigned. Nixon would have taken the camera, taken the microphone and said, Yeah, whatever. I'm suing the Washington Post. That's what he would have done. So times have changed in a way that is going to cause different results depending on your moral compass.

Mike Ryan and Tony appear to be arguing back there about something.

Breaking news in the NBA. Per Shams Tarania, the Minnesota Timberwolves have traded for Io DeSunwo. You're on the bullshit, man. No, that's not the bullshit. That's Jack's shit, dude. No, no, no. This isn't happening. He knows what I'm talking. He's Jack's shit. This isn't happening. That's not bullshit.

No, this might be a move.

I'm not sure.

It is seven and a half million dollars. It's expiring. You are such a hack for the We got to see, is there going to be a pick? It's such a hack. Why are they buying other players? I'm talking about I. O. This isn't creating room. Looking at the CIA. It's an expiring deal. Maybe they're positioning themselves even more for the June pursuit of Yannis.

Did I just hear Estre look into the CIA on Watergate.

If you want to be serious about it, if you want to have technicalities about it, this is the CIA side.

Put it on the poll at Lebitard's show.

Look at Bob Woodworth, where he started working before the post.

Put it on the poll at Lebitard's show. Is he Is there a Watergate every single day now? Does Pat Reilly owe anybody anything, David?

I love you, Mike, but my God, you're just so wrong about your view of Pat Reilly in the Miami Heat. You've had a lifetime, Mike, a lifetime of success with your heat franchise. You could be in the lottery, Jamie Gerts style for the rest of your adult life, and you've had enough of winning. And it's all because of Pat Reilly. And I'm the first to tell you that it's not going to happen again, and it's not his fault. You're not getting the honest today. You're not sit there all day with Zaz. You're not getting him today. They're not stupid enough in Milwaukee. Milwaukee people are smart. They're going to wait till the offseason, and then they get to maximize their return. Of course, he's not getting traded today. So Mike, give me a break. And Pat Reilly, why don't you just say thank you and be on your way?

Well, you just mentioned that they could be in the lottery. They're worse than that. They're in the play-in for five consecutive years now. Why is it Jamie Gerts style?

She's always in the lottery with the Hawks. She's married to the Hawks owner, so she's the one who goes to the lottery, the actress.

Are Milwaukee people smart because you're from Milwaukee?

No, Milwaukee people are just amazing.

Is it because you're from there?

I was born in Milwaukee.

And by the way, they now have a player they can build around because they were in the lottery. The Dallas Mavericks were in the spot that the Miami he should have been in last year in the lottery, and they got Cooper flag. The lottery is a path, too. My lament here is that we're caught in no man's land. We are not being aggressive enough to get the guys to improve us, and we're just keeping a roster that has proven time and time again to a memeable degree. They're right there with Atlanta and Chicago every year. I agree. Give me the lottery.

No, but say thank you to Pat. What you're saying is the right analysis. They are in the middle It's what you learn in baseball, either lose a hundo or try to win a hundo, but winning 75 to 85 games, which was like my specialty, is the worst place to be.

I have said thank you to Pat. Pat's the greatest executive in the history of this sports market. He can be that. And worthy of criticism for the last few seasons. And that's all I'm doing. This show in particular has blown sunshine up Pat Reilly's ass more than any other show in the history of the media. All right? I'm not going to get shit the first time that I decide to take him to task and be like, Hey, what's with the whales? You're the one that tells me every offseason, and you're one prester.

We're going to get the whales.

Don Lebatard. I'm not going to apologize. I wouldn't expect you to apologize. You're a giant infant. Okay.

You have no You have no control over your emotions. You have no control over your emotions. When you're calling someone you know an idiot, I don't deserve it. I don't deserve it.

You're a fool for saying it.

Stugatz.

You're a fool. I was following you. You're locking in right now. You're locking in on us. Yeah, right. Let's drop the gloves, pal. You should be thanking me. For what? Every day. For what? For what I've done around this character. The second shit gets real for you, You want to come at me and call me a fool? No, seriously.

Jeremy- Seriously, pal. I've added 10 years to your career.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugats.

You've been doing it for five years while they've made the finals twice. You are, though, a modern day James Baldwin who only criticized this country because of how much he cared for it.

That's right. Look, we're talking about culture, something that I'm pretty sure this show helped give voice to, and the heat marketing folks were like, Hey, let's build a campaign out of this. All right? He's the one every offseason that loves the media spotlight and loves jacking people up with, Whale, we're going to be We're going to be in the mix. I am a byproduct of the expectations Pat Reilly helped create and nurture, not just over the last 20 years. I'm talking about very recently.

Put it on the poll, please, Juju, at Lebitard Show. Has anyone blown more sunshine up Pat Reilly's ass than this show? In the history of the medium. And put it on the poll as well at Lebitard Show. What would you prefer blown up your behind, smoke or sunshine? Because I don't when you guys go sunshine or when you guys go smoke, but neither of those seem like things that anyone needs to blow up anyone's behind.

They're both relatively insincere. I go smoke because I feel like they're telling you what you want to hear.

Yeah, but is it tickling? Why is it smoke? I've never understood what is that expression. When is there smoke blown up? Anything like what? I think it feel good. Like sunshine, at least I understand. Okay.

Sunshine seems like- Dan, I'm asking you, do I give off like I'm ungrateful for Pat Reilly?

No. You have talked for many years and you have accepted that his standard is the highest standard. It's the one that he taught everyone around here. When he doesn't meet it or reach it or doesn't come close and they're not as relevant as you like, you get very frustrated with him. It's not like your standard is any higher than his standard. What Samson is saying, though, as an executive who knows how hard these things are to do, is for 30 years, Miami has had the third best winning percentage in the entire league. That's really hard to do over 30 years when you've got a situation that your players are always changing. It's the Spurs, it's the Lakers have won a little bit more, and that's it. It's 30 years. The entire time he's been in charge, they've won a great deal more than they've lost. They've got the third best winning percentage in the league. And so Samson is saying to you, That's hard to do. Respect it. Be grateful for it.

I know. I am. I am. I'm super grateful for it. Don't sound it. I think Pat Reilly is probably more frustrated than I am that he hasn't been able to get this done. Expectations and standards are not bad things. It's looking to me like Miami's last team stand-in after Minnesota just made this trade. They traded four second-round picks to Chicago.

Here's Jake Fisher. Jake Fisher is reporting. The Wolves and heat sources say, Still believe they are in play for landing Giannis onto Tukumbo today. Although like the Warriors, few believe Milwaukee is actually serious about parting ways with their franchise face. He's being told the Bucks are also with the Grizzlies on Ja Morant as well. What do you make of the changes in reporting, David? Adam Schefter is breaking hockey news now. The agencies and the insiders are aligned. Media is not terribly independent anymore. He's compromised in a lot of places. I saw the story here recently. It's a sports media business story, but I'm imagining that you're curious about it. Bill Simmons just said that YouTube is not the future. Netflix is the future. Bill Simmons has a deal with Netflix. I don't know why you're laughing, but Bill Simmons, from my vantage point, just knowing a little bit about this business, what I think just happened is that Spotify took Bill Simmons' audience and sold it to Netflix and doesn't allow him to be on YouTube anymore. So I think that's the reason he might be saying this, but maybe I've got it wrong. Do I have it wrong?

No, you can still do clips. You just can't do shows. But what's funny is what you said, which is Bill Simmons talking about the fact that YouTube is not the future, but Netflix is when he is behind the Netflix wall. I would like to have said that prior. Why? After, you're on the team. It's like being traded to the heat and then wearing a heat shirt. Yeah, of course, because you're on the heat. So what his point should have been was the benefits and the costs of going and being on Netflix the way that some of these shows are doing. It's not dissimilar to the conversation we had about Howard Stern when he went to Sirius. That was a huge thing. Sirius, which then merged with XM, the view was that we will get our money back because people will follow him. And they were right. Are people going to follow to Netflix where it's all about new subs? It's not even about retaining old subs, because what you talk about with Wall Street analysts, how many new subs do we have in this quarter? Well, I want to see Simmons. I can't do it on YouTube.

Therefore, I'm going to get a Netflix subscription. Do I believe that that will happen? And the answer is no. I think the model that Netflix has is we want more content choices, like we want Kevin Hart and Adam Sandler, and we want podcasts. All of that is part of the opportunity when you are a Netflix subscriber and what you're going to come to expect. But again, Dan, I don't think anyone signed up for Netflix because they wanted to see an Adam a Chandler movie or a Kevin Hart movie. I think it's just part of what they get when they're already a subscriber. But I believe that YouTube is what the people view as their atmosphere of content is YouTube. They get the opportunity to see things that are pushed to them that they may not otherwise see, that they may not otherwise have heard of. They get the opportunity to participate in ways that Netflix showing video does not offer an audience.

Okay, I I am asking this question because I do care about this subject matter, but I'm not totally as informed as I need to be on this subject matter. From afar, I viewed what happened with Bill Simmons and Netflix as Spotify sold his audience and put it behind a paywall that wouldn't have been something Bill Simmons wanted necessarily, that's something Spotify wanted, and it's something Netflix wanted. And so you get the audience being sold and put behind a paywall. It's something around here that I've been very reluctant to do, even though there's money to be done there. So I'm asking you, do I have that wrong? Because I don't know if I've got it right. I just think I have it right, but I don't have enough information here. I've got more than most because I know how some of this business works, but I don't know if Spotify just sold Simmons' audience to Netflix.

Well, they had that right, but you're asking a question of what Bill Simmons wanted, and I can't speak to his frame of mind when the Netflix deal was done, only to his frame of mind when the Spotify deal was done, because that's a deal ago. And it's the same thing when Metalark Media does a deal with DraftKings, I can know your state of mind But what DraftKings then does with your show, that really, in theory, we don't have to talk about that specific deal, but you do not necessarily have control over that. Bill Simmons would not have control over how that show is being monetized so Spotify can get a return on its investment in Simmons and in his other shows. And so when you sell, you are giving up control, definitionally. Think about when you sell your little studio, a movie studio, to one of the big giants. You are giving up control in order to take money off the table, in order to diversify your holdings, not have your networth just in your media company. That's why little companies sell to big companies who spread risk over a bunch of different things. Some work, some don't, and you move on.

When you own it, you want the payday, and the strategy is, when do you take it? And Bill Simmons took it. The Netflix deal was not the specific payday for Bill. It was the Spotify deal.

Yeah, our language might be a little harsh here, even though selling the audience when you get down to brass tax is probably what's happening. I look at it more as a cash in, both with Ringer Spotify and now with Netflix. It's like you get to a certain size and you look at a pile of money and you decide, Is this worth it? And some people do, and some people decide to issue that for the time being and look at market inefficiencies elsewhere and decide, No, we're not at the place where we can cash in yet. Let's still grow. Let's still be as inclusive as possible.

An excellent bit of nuance and context there. I am certain that I will not get aggregated with a giant picture that makes me look like fat bastard there. Now that you've offered that nuance, I'm sure everything there will be treated and my crude language will not be misrepresented in any way at all. Samson, what movie are you reviewing for us? That picture is so unfair. You guys need to- It's the size of the couch. You guys need to say...

Not right. It's shameful.

It is. Body shaming me. Look, man, it's hard running a business, and I've been secret eating ice cream in my bathtub, and it just happens because I'm under a great deal of stress. What is the movie you're reviewing for today, Samson?

You better not make fun of me because of the age of this, but I watched a movie on Netflix, a documentary called Miracle: The Boys of 80. You're going to say, No one was alive in 1980. No one remembers that. It's the greatest sports story. If you had to give me a top five sports stories of all time, don't give me Rudy. You give me the Miracle on Ice in 1980 with the USA men's hockey team of amateurs and college players with Jim, Craig, and Goley. What a great documentary, revisiting it. They're walking through the streets of Lake Placid. You have to have been alive, and I was 12, and you're very aware of the Cold War. You're aware of CCCP and what the enemy is, and the fact that you didn't have one chance to beat Russia. And then you do, spoiler alert, they beat Russia in the semifinals and then went on to win the gold medal. And it was one of the greatest things. I remembered it so well. And I was young, and I got to relive it. And it's great. If you don't know the story, watch Miracle. There have been movies about it.

Kurt Russell played Herb Brooks, who all the players hated, by the way, which I loved. That means he was a great coach. I love the documentary.

Is that your goat sports story in the history of sports?

It is the greatest sports story in the history of sports. Given the circumstances that were going on, given that people don't understand the Olympics today. Do you know they started already in Milan? Who knew? Curling.

Who knew? It's on in the office here. I'm going to go Leicester City.

Put it on the poll at Lebitard Show. Do you have to give a spoiler alert if you're talking about the results of the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team. Also, I do want to have this goat conversation. You know what else I want to have around the goat conversation? What it is you'd put second since it seems to be consensus that everybody would put first. The greatest upset in the history of American sports is the 1980 US Olympic Hockey.

Umbc over Virginia, a 16 seed over one. I remember where I was watching that. I know I wasn't alive in 1980, so I would have remembered that. There wasn't all of the political circumstances, but that was 16 over one for the first time after Pablo had predicted it for 15 straight years on Around the Horn. Truthfully, Indiana winning the national title is up there. Yeah. And if Ole Miss had wanted- It's to have an undefeated season, too. Ole Miss getting in as far as they did is up there in one of the great stories. Their coach didn't even believe in that. Nancy State over Houston. The 2007 Giants over the Undefeated Patriots with the catch from Manningham. Excuse me, David Tyree on the helmet.

This Goat Conversation is presented by Franks Red Hot. Make every dish the greatest. Eat the goat.

Look how happy Samson was at the seamless sponsorship transition. Samson always sees money wherever it is that people are making it.

Cody, you're the best.