Transcript of Hour 1: Pablo Torre Finds Meow (feat. Pablo Torre)

This is the Dan Levatore Show with the Stugats podcast.

Today at 2: 00 PM, we're the ones who are going to bleep around, but Pablo Torre is the one who finds out we're going to continue our Super Bowl coverage by starting in the obvious place East Texas and Death Row is where we're about to head. Death Row Records? That is not in East Texas. Shugnight is in California. Actually, I don't know the penal system that Shugnight is in. That's what I'm saying. He might be anywhere. No, that is not who Pablo is visiting on Death Row. We'll get to that in just a second, but I want to keep telling people 2: 00 PM today, we're going to watch as the Bucks trade for Ja Morant and Jonathan Zaslow gets crushed because Ja Morant ends up being the running mate to Yannis Antetokumpo in Milwaukee.

Dan, 3: 01 PM. 3: 01, before I'm out of here.

You're going to storm out. Sometimes they trickle in after the 3: 00 PM deadline. We don't know whether it'll be certainty. I don't know what to expect, but we're going to be live 2: 00 to 4: 00 talking about the trade deadline. But when I tell you guys that this entire outfit is playing Whac-a-Mole, that they're making me, and I know the reference is being lost on some of you, you don't know what Whac-a-Mole is, but it's an old game. You'd go in with a mallet and there would be moles that would pop up out of the, I don't know, the console.

The most boring game in an arcade.

You'd hit them with a mallet. But it's you guys. Put it on the poll at Lebitard Show, is Whac-amole an arcade classic? But to my point, I have in front of me a piece of an index card that has been handed to me by the producers.

I just talked to the young people in the bullpen. I'm like, You young people know what Whac-A-Mole is, and three people said the exact same sentence at the exact same time. Absolutely. I don't know what he's doing.

I understand that I'm an old man chasing people off my lawn.

There's this new word, groceries.

With references that nobody understands. I don't think Whac-amole is an arcade classic, but I want to explain to people metaphorically what it is that I'm doing. You guys are the moles. I'm the one with the mallet, and my example is right in front of me. I'm going to have Jonathan Zaslow, or Jonathan Zacklow, as we're going to call him in a few hours, read to you what is on the piece of paper that has been handed to me by producers who give me information to keep me maximum informed. Zaslow, do not read the words on here that are the only sports words. Just tell people what's on this piece of paper that I've been handed that is my information center all over the piece of paper. How many words are on this piece of paper? How many words?

It's got to be a couple of hundred.

Okay. How many of the words are sports related?

None.

I don't think it's none, Zazlo. Look at that sheet closely. There are words. This is going well. There are words on that sheet, Zazlo, that are sports-related that you're not seeing.

You told me not to read the sports-related.

I know. How many words are there on the sheet that are sports-related? If the city does, they play along. Thank you, Zaslow. There we go. How many words are... Let's try this again, Zaslow. For the last time. How many words are on the sheet that I've been handed by the producers? You have no idea how much is writing on this for you.

A couple of hundred.

How many of the words are sports related? Two. I'll get Damosheck in here. What is on that piece of paper, Zaslow?

Bullshit words.

Give me the piece of paper back, Zazla. Oh, he's done. What? You know what? In fact, in fact, in fact.

How to exercise is that?

Minor penalty, two minutes.

Minor penalty, two minutes for boring.

What's called boom? Me?

Yes, you. Yes, you. Get Get out of here. This is the piece of paper I have been handed. It is not that hard to describe. It isn't. Hundreds of times, the word miaou, a cat miaou, is written on a piece of paper, and it also says Hero or Kaminga.

That was me. That was mine.

Successful bit. We did all right. Let's talk about death row. Pablo Tori is with us. Pablo Tori finds out as the podcast, he continues to do extraordinary work. You guys would love this because this was in the modern age, and it needs to be protected, classic 60 Minutes type of journalistic reporting where the television reporter shows you that he's driving through the middle of Bumblebleep, trying to get to an outpost that is super secluded and empty to meet the death row inmate.

We all knew that was going to go poorly, back here.

Right away. I was like, Oh, God, he's doing the card. He wants Zaz to say something.

There's an index card that's got the word miał being written on it. I'm trying to do something live in front of people. Don't capitulate. You were right. It's a bit of a tightrope, right? It's live in front of people. I'm trying to make it entertaining. It's on him. And there are... Which That's a great concept.

Why am I being handed a piece of paper that has the word miaou written on it hundreds of times? All right, miaou.

Pablo, you have gone out to East Texas and you want to tell the story of Charles Don Flores. I guess I need to be careful with some of my language here, but is he guilty of what he's accused Hi, guys.

No, Charles Flores is a man who I'm happy to talk to you about, right, Miaou, because he is, of course, a character that we've introduced on our show before. He's not a correspondent to Death Row to talk to Charles. I went there myself in our attempt, by the way. I don't know what you guys are doing there with the index cards. We are trying to replace 60 Minutes, though, in New York using Dan's money. And yeah, I rented a Jeep. I drove to death row. And the point is this guy was wrongfully convicted in ways that are crazy. I, on Pablatory Finds Out, am, of course, used to my own version of Whac-A-Mole. Billionaire pops up. I try to report on it. Does anything happen? As if I have the control of that. All I can do is tell people what's up. In this case, yes, exactly. Replace John Moran and Yannis with the faces of the richest people in America. In this case, the Texas criminal justice system, the state of Texas, because Charles Don Flores was convicted and sentenced to death because an eyewitness was hypnotized by the police and identified him a year after she had described two men, two suspects, who looked nothing like him.

There's never been any physical evidence tying him to the scene. Charles Don Flores has maintained his innocence the entire time. In fact, the actual killer, this was a robbery and a murder in Texas, the actual gunman, the actual killer, pled guilty and is now out of prison. He was released on parole 10 years ago. And Charles Don Flores remains, despite the fact that junk science, which has since been outlawed, by the way, in Texas, was the reason he was put there in the first place. It's an unbelievably absurd story. We're trying to petition for his freedom. Will it work? I don't care. I just want to try. And that's the Whac-a-mole that I've been playing.

You have made him your cowboy's correspondent. Can you explain to people the life he's presently living while, apparently wrongly convicted? Because I cannot think of a lot of worse ways to live than 23 hours a day in solitary confinement with a crime you haven't committed.

Yeah, it's one of the more remarkable interactions I've had, him explaining that the one thing he's learned how to control are his emotions. It's a lesson, Dan, I know that you and I have talked about what can control? What can any of us control in this life? It's how we respond to things, which is the hardest thing to do. And this guy has spent 26 years learning to do that. And so he doesn't indulge in anger at the fact that the gunman, Richard Childs, is now out and free while he is remaining in prison despite being wrongfully convicted. What he's doing is he is finding ways to cope with his fate, and his execution date is looming, and he is also using his powers of emotional restraint to care deeply the Dallas Cowboys. He's the fan that not only is a really great hang in terms of he's very well-versed in how the Cowboys have been doing, he watches the games to little cracks in his solitary confinement cell. There's a TV over there. He's like the faith-based program. It's a 50-inch TV off in the hallway. You can see it through a crack as he sits on a stack of legal papers.

What he is doing is also prioritizing draft picks. That's the true fan he is. The dude on death row is saying, We need to play for the future. He was glad the Giants beat the Cowboys on January fourth because they got draft picks because of it, better picks because of it. Yeah, he has takes. He has takes that are future-oriented, even though he's the last person you'd imagine would and should care about the future?

I have a lot of questions, Pablo. But first, for someone who is in their cell for 23 hours a day and has been incarcerated, possibly wrongly incarcerated for 26 years, and he gets to do this with you, has he expressed to you gratitude for this new thing that he has in his life now?

By the way, Zaz, he has only an hour of the day to himself, and he spends it with Pablo. He spends it with Pablo, at least in part because of that gratitude. Yeah.

He is not only... I think the gratitude is certainly there, and We've been like, our show, we send them E-messages. You can email. They call it E-messages. There's a whole payment plan system with people on death row in Texas. And he's been more than grateful. The thing that he expresses, though, is that this is a story that the state of Texas doesn't want you to hear. They don't want to hear it from him. He has appealed numerous times. When I say that, and again, there's a video in this episode, okay, of the police hypnotizing the eyewitness who is the only person to tie him to this crime. Actually, it's remarkable to see the video. It's as if from one of these two on-the-nose movies in which someone is practicing, You're getting sleepy. That's how they did this shit. Charles has appealed, This very practice has been outlawed in Texas. The issue with in his case is that it did not retroactively apply. Everybody knows you shouldn't be able to use this in a criminal trial anymore. But because it happened before the law was passed, and the law was passed in part because of his case, Sheesh.

He cannot benefit from it. That's why we're trying to get the word out. That's why I'm forcing you guys to hear about this and hang out with me also, is because there's a petition. There's a petition you can sign. I'm going to pull it up. It's on our Twitter account, obviously. It's tagged in the YouTube channel. The petition is actionnetwork. Org/petitions/charles. All we can really do, as you feel helpless playing this version of Whac-a-Mole, is just register to the state of Texas and for anybody who cares to see that we hear his story. It's the only job of journalism on some level is communicate stories that people don't otherwise want you to know about. Charles Don Flores is a guy who we really need people to know about.

Mike, you know I have one rule to live by, right?

Don't place parlays on multiple long shots. Don't say a game is one when it hasn't hit triple zero.

Always drink your Jägermeister ice cold. That's the rule. Everything else is merely a suggestion.

Everything else?

Everything else.

Wearing clean underwear every day?

Well, that's just a personal decision.

Brushing your teeth?

Obviously smart, but not a rule.

Never PP on an electric fence.

Okay, maybe there are two rules, but the one that is 100% that I insist on completely, Jägermeister must be drunk ice cold. Or don't drink it at all. Damn, that's cold. Exactly. You're finally starting to get it.

Drink responsibly. Jägermeister L'Core, 35% alcohol by volume, imported by Mass Jägermeister US, White Plains, New York.

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It's Miller time. Celebrate Responsibly, Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3. 2 carbs per 12 ounces. Don Levatard. Pablo leads all of podcasting in reading while smiling.

If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having the time of his life.

Stugatz.

Coming up next, I'm going to tell you the Savannah Bananas are changing faces.

Savannah bananas.

How do you know I'm smiling?

That's how I find my vocal range. Sometimes I just say, Savannah Bananas. Savannah Bananas.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugats.

Pablo, I I understand, obviously, the court system, you're convicted by a jury of your peers, and that's the way it goes. But like you're talking about here, if the only evidence is this person who was hypnotized and said it was him, even though he doesn't match his description, a lot of times in these cases, won't the judge say, Yeah, I hear the jury, you're convicting him, but there was no evidence here. There was no credible evidence, and the judge will render their decision? Why did the judge do something like that?

Yeah, you're asking logical questions that I've also of how the justice system in the state of Texas works. Something that's interesting about how he was convicted is that the hypnosis happened a year after his arrest. It happened a year after, excuse me, the witness was interviewed. She names two tall white guys with long dark hair, and Charles Flores, who you've seen on this screen, who is a heavyset Hispanic man, has never resembled a tall white guy with long dark hair. And so what happened was the news, the local television stations, the press in Texas, they put his face all over the news. And so by the time this woman who gets hypnotized by the police is being asked, Do you recall this guy? It happens under circumstances that, again, have been outlawed since by the state. And so the appeals process, Zaz, you're asking good questions. What I can tell you about the most recent step, because there's been a the whole roller coaster, which we outlined in the story, which is infuriating and fascinating as a window into all of this. The most recent appeal, there was what's called a postage stamp dismissal, as in they don't know what the state of Texas has even acknowledged or read.

They just were summarily dismissed as an appeal. And so tomorrow, the other episode, reason for this episode, is that tomorrow, Charles' lawyer is appealing to the Supreme Court, and they are not optimistic music because the Supreme Court, as you can imagine, is overwhelmed in lots of other ways. But we're beyond fail Mary time now as we watch Charles walk into the booth where, yeah, he's had the only real human interaction for 26 years. One hour at a time, he says he gets a visitor every couple of months. And this place is crazy, dude. Look at the decoration here. There's Star Wars murals, there's Sonic the Hedgehog, there's Cookie Monster. This is where families to meet people on death row except this guy, Charles. He has no family anymore. His family actually is what he considers his community of fellow sports fans, Cowboys fans. And he says that sports is a way of expressing that he still belongs to society. And that is, I mean, truly, the Super Bowl is a clinic in that. It's the power of what sports are. It makes a guy like that feel that way.

This story is infuriating. The details are all Pablo Tori finds out. I urge you to check it out. Pablo, tell the people again, if you would, how it is they can help if they are properly outraged because this story requires and needs more attention. I don't know if you said it or not. He was five days away from being executed, all right?

Dude, oh, my God. The most affecting scene in this whole thing, as we've put on the screen here, the URL, actionnetwork. Org/petitions/charles, is that Charles Flores was five days away from execution and was forced to grapple with what that actually means. And he had never talked about this before with us. We never really wanted to fully break the seal on contemplating what it's like when the state kills you. And the experience of him being given this date, it's five days away, his mom visits him. And the way he finds out that he's gotten a stay of execution was over this radio that he has in prison, on death row in the Polonsky unit where I was. We found the tape of that. The idea that this is a movie, I often make that comparison. It feels cinematic. This is beyond that. It is life and death. He tasted what it's like to have this glimpse of freedom. It has since then been stripped again from him because his appeal was denied. Now we're trying to make it so that the story is not over yet, even though the of Texas wants it very much, it seems, to be over.

Jeremy, I have accused you of being a theater kid, and you get mad, and you say that that is derisive. When he uses the word cinematic here, he's not wrong in this story being cinematic, but I want to show all you guys, and forgiveness, audio audience, you're not going to see this, but I want to show all you guys how enjoyable Pablo finds the cinema. Look at this. Do you think that Pablo knows that he nailed it when did this right here, when he did the fist bump through the- That's the greatest dap I've ever given through prison glass with Charles Flores.

Yeah, I felt pretty good about that, honestly. As you should. You know how you hear it? That's incredible. You guys know when you get a good dap, and you can hear it echo sometimes? Yes. I would say that- Oh, yeah. That resounding down a hallway, you can feel it on the Richter scale. No, when you hear it. That's what that felt like.

Great dap. Put it on the poll at Levitard show. Is prison glass dap the best of all the daps? Pablo was thrilled. I can see. Let's show this again. I can see the smile on the back of Pablo's head as he sees and feels the genuine happiness of Charles Don Flores is about to give me, aggressive, meaningful, and grateful prison dap. You can see Pablo. Can you see it, Zazla, on the back of his head? Can you see it, miał?

It's good. It's not as good as the dap in Midnight Express. You know about that Midnight Express dap?

What was that? What was the Midnight Express dap?

Turkish Prison. Is it Turkish Prison DAP? Yep.

Oh, I see. I've had some bad dap in my life. I'll also be journalistically transparent about that. I once jumped on a couch to dap up Magic Johnson, and it looked like Tom Cruise on Oprah's couch. I looked an insane person. Cortez caught that on video. And thankfully, I did not queue it up in time for you guys to have it. So you won't be able to play it, but it's bad. That made up for it. That made up for all the bad dap I've had in my life. Dan, you're a bad dap haver yourself. Why is Dan judging dap? Do you guys have the video of Dan? Was it Josh Norman? Oh, yeah.

Just get that real quick. No, just stop. Just shut up. No, no, no. Let him toss the video without any heads up. We do this all the time. What's wrong? I'm so mad at Pablo and Zaz, right, So mad. Midnight Express. The two of them. The two of them. He's just doing boob. He's doing boob work on Midnight Express in a Turkish prison. A movie from 30 years ago says the guy who referenced against Ikebod Crane a couple of days ago. Pablo. Seemingly out of nowhere, NBA trade the Los Angeles Lakers have traded the expiring contract of Gabe Vincent and a second round pick to the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for Luke Canard. Well, wait a minute. The real breaking news would be that Wendy is saying the T-Wolves are out on Giannis. That leaves Miami as the only team chasing him. That would be breaking news. When did we get that?

Did Can I just break this?

We'll cross a wire? Yeah. Well, Wendy just said it. Wendy says they're out. You guys don't have this? I'm leaving. Where did he say? You guys don't have this? Why do I have this? And the paper that says, Miaou all over it and Kaminga, our hero on it. Why is it I have information that you guys don't have. Wendy is saying that the Miami... This is the report, okay? He said it on first take, and what you have is, Minnesota and Golden State think they aren't getting Yannis today. The Miami heat are still out there. Last I heard, trying to make moves to improve their offer to Milwaukee. That said, the heat can make a better offer in the summer. Teams believe it's most likely that Yannis stays put, but Miami is still there. There it is. There's the video. But I will never put anything past Andy Ellesberg in the aggression of Pat Reilly. So keep an eye on with Miami. And that is not Dap. That's just me hugging Josh Norman.

Bringing him in.

Our calves.

Oh, no.

The pull. It's like the fall. The Dap was so mismanaged that you ended up grinding.

Whenever you hug someone and you take two steps backwards, that's never good. Around the neck, too, is tough. It hurts.

You should be embarrassed.

Yeah. How is he in crook of your elbow. How did that happen?

The story involving the clippers that you have been at the center of, did you hear any of the conspiracy theories involving James Harden and the idea that they're blowing up the whole thing because of knowing what's coming down the road because of all your reporting and all your busy body finding out?

I've been very busy bodying. I have heard... Look at this. Just Josh Norman looking incredibly confused behind sunglasses. I have been seeing and hearing all of the rumors. I can tell you that on the scale of, here's some stuff that's true to here's some stuff that's not. Stuff that's true. Nba coaches actively, I mean, I've talked to multiple NBA head coaches who find that the Clippers may escape punishment by the NBA to be so egregious that it informed what they believe was the real story of why Kawhi Leonard didn't make the All-Star Game as voted in by the coaches. So when Adam Silver follows up and he appoints him, as the Commissioner has the power to do unilaterally, appoints Kawhi to the game, that was also a thing that blew up my phone, and lots of people laughed about how perfect it is that Adam Silver would come and rescue Kawhi Leonard from the accountability exerted by these coaches.

And that's the guy you think is going to punish Kawhi? That's the guy? Come on.

That is a story that we continue to report on. So that's over here. That's stuff that happened. Yes. The stuff that didn't, that feels less obvious to me. I can't tell you why James Harden wanted to pull the parachute cord, it's hard to isolate the variable of like, he sees a punishment coming because, again, that's how I describe the punishment and the current forecast of it. And also because James Harden has done this over and over again. So the Clipper is generally, though, whereas Where are the Clippers in this? In the middle of that, I think, truth spectrum is the idea that the Clippers are actively considering and pursuing life after Kawhi Leonard. This whole regime has been disastrous, which is also why it's funny that Lawrence Frank, the President of just got a four-year extension, which was announced in December when they were 6-21, by the way, and has since been finalized. It's very funny that that guy stays around for four more years to run this disastrous regime as a basketball matter because they are looking for the post-Kawaii era. That's Darius Garland coming in. From the post-Kawaii perspective, Zubats is on the team.

Zubats seems to be also actively being mentioned in trade negotiations. All of this stuff is like, what happens after we undo the Paul George, Kawaii Leonard era? Pg is gone. Kawaii is still there. Everybody else, though, Chris Paul, James Harden, Zubats, it seems. They're looking past it because there's not anything left for them to gain. That's where I think the state of the Union is.

Don Levatard. I think I would have been on his side.

I would have looked at you like, What did you say?

I'm telling you, me and my friend, the rest of the way home, all we kept saying was, I ain't cheating.

Stugatz. I think he got your ass. I think he got your ass.

I got his ass. Chris won this one for sure. Not pathetic.

That was your ally, Jeremy.

It was great.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugats.

Last thing on this subject and last thing for our time with you. I cannot believe that Tony and Zaz and a whole lot of other people are looking at all of the reporting that you have done exhaustively on that story, and all of them are saying, Yeah, the league's not going to do anything. Nothing's going to happen there. I can't believe that something could be this egregious and nothing's going to happen, especially because I know at least a couple of the owners and a couple of minority owners who are really mad about this. They're mad at how flagrant this is, and I just don't believe that they would allow for this to go unpunished. What do you think is going to happen?

I think that the MBA... Oh, God. That's me dapping up. And there's Tom Thibodeau, by the way, in the right-hand corner. That's the dab on the couch. What I think is going to happen with the MBA is subject to our ongoing investigation. What I will tell you is that the incentive structure of the MBA is so deeply public relations-driven, which is to say a bit of a through line in all the stuff that I report on my show is we try to bring accountability through journalism to very rich and powerful people and/or governments. The question of what they have to do in response is very often subject not to what the truth is, it's to how much people out there care about it and make a stink about it and actually discuss it. And so when, Dan, you say that you've talked to ownership groups, members of ownership groups who express that this is absurd and beyond the pale, even when you consider that there is various caps or convention in small ways, probably happening throughout the league, yes, I've also heard this from other NBA owners. I've heard it from NBA head coaches. I've heard it from other NBA general managers.

Everybody in the league, behind the scenes, knows what's happening. I will also say that it's very, of course, understandable that these people want to remain anonymous because they know that the league's whole incentive here is to stamp out dissent when it comes to calling out the boss. And the boss here is not Adam Silver. The boss here are the richest people in the sport. And so Steve Ballmer, who is the richest man in sports, who can buy the entirety of the NBA if he wanted to. He has more money than everybody else combined in the ownership group. That'd be a move. The question of, will they punish? I think you look at these incentives and you say, does the NBA have to? And that's where we are continuing to investigate is what's the process and what's the forecast based on the evidence that we're continuing to gather.

Pablo had a good dap, Dan, but it was better than Jim Carrey's prison dap. Come on. Come on, Dan. Jim Carrey, cable guy, Midnight Express.

The reporting he's doing is extraordinary. Pablo Torre finds out there is nothing in sports podcasting or podcasting in general quite like it. He goes out to death row. This is the second time that Pablo Torre finds out is advocating on behalf of what appears to be a fairly obvious injustice. I urge you to both check it out and do the petition so that more word gets out because he's tackling, obviously, complicated subject matter and doing it in the most cliché way possible right off the top, where he's driving through what is clearly Bumblebleep Nowhere. The camera's with him and he's just casually driving through Tumbleweed, and he's like, Look, I'm a reporter, but I go out there and get in the field. He rented a Jeep, too. I go out there.

I was going to say, I got two things. Number one, actionnetwork. Org/petitions/charles. Please sign it very sincerely. It's all we can do. That's the first thing. The second thing is thank you, Dan, for helping me pay for this rented Jeep. It was cool.

Look at this. Look how cliché this is. Look, there he is. There are his hands on the steering-Tent and two. There are his hands on the steering-Tent and two, baby. Yes, driving perfectly through nowhere to get to nowhere and death row, the end of the road, the literal end of the road for a man who shouldn't be at the end of the road. Charles Dawn Flores. That life looks awful, obviously. 23 hours a day in confinement when you're not guilty of something.

I'm surprised, Pablo. What? I'm surprised.

Ten and two, you're a New York City guy, and I don't see you driving a whole ton.

He knew he was being televised. That wasn't natural driving.

I'm usually driving with my knees, I'll be honest.

At what point in the journey did you tell the camera guy, Hey, get out of the car real quick. And then I'll drive by. And get me turning this corner.

At what point did you start screaming at the chauffeur saying like, Look, I can- Can I leave, Miał?

Can I go? Yeah, get out of here.

How far did you drive past your cameraman before you stopped and allowed him to walk to you because you were not going to drive back to pick him up.

Stop breaking the fourth wall. For the love of God, you have one job. Make me the new 60 Minutes, and you're really blowing it for me. So thank you.

Pablo Torre finds out is the podcast. He really is doing special work, and we thank him for it. It needs to get more attention. You know what else needs to get more attention this Super Bowl week? We're not covering enough. Denny Hamlin. We are not covering this enough. His life is clearly haunted. Yeah. Wait a minute. You're not speaking as my voice anymore. We love the stories in sports that make you feel something. You are not speaking. Look, I- Did you find out what happened to him? I don't want to keep arguing with my inner monolog. You're speaking as yourself instead of me. Stop speaking. It got even sadder. I know. Listen to this. Listen to this because- It's even sadder. No, it's unbuck. This house is haunted. This house that Denny Hamlin... We've played for you last week, okay? The sound of a broken Denny Hamlin talking about losing his dad in a fire and trying to get back. He's fighting with Nascar. He's trying to win. He keeps losing all things in heartbreaking ways. And this latest detail where he's talking... Before I give the latest detail, let's just listen to Denny Hamlin clearly hollowed out.

These NASCAR guys are very, very good at selling their sport. They all know that they got to be salesmen. They all in front of the cameras do special things because they have gratitude about their sport and they understand that they need to be out there selling it. So Hamlin is doing this interview, but he doesn't really want to do this interview, and the heartbreak is all over him as he talks about it, his face and his answers, because he's not in sales mode here. He's talking about, I got to come back and I got to talk about the really awful shit. So here, he's already haunted here. Listen to this.

How are you doing?

Okay, as to be expected.

Does it look like your mom is doing okay?

Yeah, she has good days, bad days, but getting better.

Did you consider not racing after everything that happened?

I mean, I've considered all options. I made a promise to Joe and to give his family.

Do you think it's going to be difficult to race?

I don't think so. I think But once I get in the swing of it, it'll actually be good to get back to it. I haven't locked in for the season necessarily quite yet.

Is there anything you want to say to so many people who have reached out and said things on social media?

I'm curious if there is.

Yeah. Anything you want to tell people?

Well, I try to answer back some. It's impossible to answer back all. But yeah, it just certainly the Nascar family has always been a very tight group and I appreciate the condolences and the well wishes and everything from everyone. It certainly does mean a lot.

Have you had much time to work with the team at all, or have they pretty much given you time to be with the team?

Yeah, today will be my first day back at the shop since November, probably.

I'm estimating it be an old hat. I mean, it'll be pretty much like you're going to be ready for it.

I think so. I think so. I mean, you know, those guys have been working and preparing and whatnot. I'll be, obviously, a little bit behind, but I feel like I can catch up pretty quickly.

So he's grieving, obviously, because he's lost his father and is taking care of a mother that's not only grieving, but that house fire also injured her. And then, as he comes back, he's in the rubble of the house, falls down and hurts his shoulder.

Yeah. A surgically repaired shoulder. That interview from a couple of days ago was with Bob Pocras. Denny Hamlin spoke to Assembled Media yesterday. It was the formal kickoff to Nascar's season, the cookout clash at Bowman gray. So the media had an opportunity to speak with Denny Hamlin, and he revealed he retore his surgically repaired shoulder, falling in the rubble of his parents' home, the home that caught fire and took his already terminally ill father away and seriously injured his mother.

No, it's the worst hour. He's doing things that are making me upset. Story after story making me upset. Can somebody say something nice? Terrible.

I feel terrible. Yeah. Sorry. There's no good side to this story just yet.

How about a picture of me looking enormous?

Yeah, that's always funny.

There you go. That softens it up. Okay, I'll take it back to the darkness again because this story reminds me of Vince Wilfort, because I remember when Vince Wilfort was in college, he lost his parents, lost both of them, bang, bang, at a formative age. He wanted to quit football at the time at a formative age. Going through this and trying to continue to work. Think about how haunted you have to feel if you're searching through the rubble of your parents' burned-down house, you're taking care of your mother who's broken because you just lost your father in that house, and as you're searching through rubble, you can't actually get back to work because you fall down in the rubble and injure your shoulder.

I can't even imagine the look on his face, the thoughts going through his head as he's looking up to the sky.

You got to think that house is haunted. You have to believe that that house is haunted and you have to get out of that house. You got to burn it down again. Get burned down everything that's in there and get the hell out of that house. When I mentioned Vince Wilfort, though, because it is, I just remember it has been rare in my history covering sports in this market where something has happened to somebody and I'm like, Oh, my God, how do you cope and deal with losing both of your parents while you're at school independent of each other? It's not even at the same time, just months apart, and both of them are surprised. But Vince Wilfork is mad. I would not want that human being mad at me. He's mad at Tom braided, Zazel, because Tom braided has not picked the Patriots in the Super Bowl. He's sitting on the fence. I don't know whether he's trying to be objective as a broadcaster.

I think his exact quote is, I have no dog in this fight. It's crazy. Which is the opposite of what he has.

Well, but I think he may be aspiring to some objectivity in his role. When Greg Olson is calling a Carolina Panthers playoff game, as he did, he's supposed to be objective, and nobody was complaining about the fact that he called the game with a lack of objectivity. Here's Will Fork, mad at his QB. But Tom hasn't given an opinion. We're waiting for an opinion from Tom. That's bull crap, Tom. Thank you. That's what we said. That's bull crap, Tom. That's what he said. Come on, Tom. Why won't he give it? All that political... This ain't political. It ain't political what it is. Yeah. Theators ain't in it. Thank you, Vince. That's right. Say what it is. What you see.

You want to come back and say, Hey, I'm a Patriot for life, then you should be rooting for him.

Man, look at the end of the day, if you're a Patriot for life, you know what it is. Don't give me that political bull crap. That's just what it is. That's it. If you don't think we're going to win, just pick Seattle then. Don't stride on the fence. Zazlo, braided is a Patriot for life, even though he was a buck. Wilfork is a Patriot for life, even though he was a Texan. Dwyane Wade is a heat member for life, even though he was a calf and a- That never happened.

And a bull. What are you talking about? He wasn't a bull. No, never happened. No, that's bull.

What are your thoughts here, Zazlo?

I think braided is full of shit. It's ridiculous. All right, very good.

Sag mal, Nikola, hast du auch immer dieses Gefühl, bei der Steuererklärung mit einem Bein schon im Knast zu stehen? Boah, nee, gar nicht. Wiso Steuer ist so die Steuer-App, mit der ich wirklich nichts falsch machen kann. Wow. Das heißt, damit ist alles sicher? Ja, genau. Wiso Steuer ist die Steuer-App, die dich versteht. Weil Steuer betrifft ja dein ganzes Leben. Arbeit, Kinder, Partner. Du kannst nichts falsch machen.

Stimmt. Nice.

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