Transcript of Pablo Torre Reacts To His Historic Pulitzer Prize Win | Hour 2 New

This is the Dan Levatar Show with the Stugatz Podcast.

Put it on the poll, Juju. Is Timothée Chalamet now the number one New York Knicks fan? Valid question. Let's bring aboard Pablo Torre, who is having a huge 24 hours. That's right, Pulitzer Prize-winning Pablo Torre. Pablo Torre finds out Pulitzer Prize for audio reporting. Pablo, congratulations. Are you, are you finding yourself over the last 24 hours or however long it is that you've known now as emotional at times as Amin has been with this tremendous honor?

Getting to say Amin's name to the newsroom of The New York Times as they celebrated photography in Gaza and investigations in the Trump administration and us doing a Doc Rivers impression about a salary cap themed episode is something that I don't I don't think even the boldest Meadowlark Media founder would have ever dreamed of. Look, this was— I am inarticulate about how much it means to everybody who made these episodes. But for me, this is legitimately a celebration of how as well as what. Like I was talking to everybody at the Times Building where we are in this licensing deal with The Athletic, and they were kind enough to have us celebrate with them. and we made it clear, like, this was our reporting, this was our own weird style. And what was so energizing was that people were bringing up the how, like David Samson and Ameen Alhassan opening folders, right? Like, a lot of what journalism is about, it turns out, is, is not merely what you're saying, but how you're convincing an audience to care. And so the idea that salary caps are a convention was the thing we won for. It is part of the story, and it's a really important part of the story, obviously, as we release part 10 of that series today on our channel.

But really, it's about how did we get millions of sports fans to care about holding a billionaire accountable? And in part, it's because of a Doc Rivers impression.

Got a lot of questions here. But first, who were you like the most proud to tell? That your show won this award?

I mean, the easy, the easy and real answer is my mom, because my mom, until I think this phone call, was still asking if I was going to go to medical school. And that's any, any, any kid whose parents came to this country with, with some notion of like, we're going to risk a lot to send you to good schools and make you study and all of that. Like, that's real. And this is one of those moments where You don't have to be morbid, but someone pointed out to me, it's like, oh, when you die, this is like the thing they will say in the first sentence. Should you not be disgraced before your death in ways that will demand legal clarification? And I said, presuming I can avoid such a scandal, I think you're correct. This is how they would identify me. And that's something that is— I don't know, man. It felt cinematic. Like, it was funny yesterday, and Ameen will appreciate this as well. I thought a lot about Ameen yesterday when I was giving this speech. And yesterday was May 4th. And, you know, the Times is celebrating again this photographer in Gaza who was taking like discourse-changing photos about human rights tragedies.

And I get up there and I'm like, I think I got to go with the line I prepared for the first thing I'm going to say in this speech. And what I said to the New York Times building and all of its journalism was, "It's an honor for me to address the Galactic Senate." And I think people got it. They were like, "Yeah, it is like—" If you see the visuals, there's this giant staircase and everyone's watching this stuff. But my parents getting to see that being silly can also mean being effective and smart and even significant in its way was really something that I can't summarize. Adequately.

Pablo, was a Pulitzer Prize even on your radar at all as a possibility? And how do you find out you've won? Like, who calls you?

I got a call from, uh, the people at The Athletic and The New York Times on Sunday. And I didn't— look, I got a call, it was like 11-something AM on Sunday. And when you get a call like that out of nowhere, you know, I was listening to what you guys were talking about before. When you get a call like that out of nowhere, as you look at the Galactic Senate, um, You think something bad has happened. You know, that was my reaction, was not, oh boy, a random unannounced call from the New York Times company.

You thought you were gonna sue?

I thought I was gonna have to litigate or worse. You know, there are lots of things that flashed through my mind, Mike. And yeah, it ended up being one of those core memories that I'm just never gonna forget, I think.

Have you wanted to, Have you— I don't know if you're going to hear from him, but aren't you curious what someone like Mark Cuban thinks right now when he hears that you won a Pulitzer?

Can we get him on the line? You guys have his number. Let's try and call him up. I love— I loved— I mean, part of what was fun was in the— in yesterday felt like a— remember that time when Mark— I mean, people were bringing this up. Remember that time when Mark Cuban showed up in your studio? And I was like, yeah, I miss that guy. I wonder where he went. He was— The part of the whole thing, and yes, I am fascinated as to what he thinks now. I'm fascinated as to what the NBA thinks now that the Pulitzer jury has deemed this journalism as opposed to gossip, which is what Steve Ballmer has recently dismissed it as in a victim impact statement, which we discussed on today's episode, incidentally, with the former DOJ prosecutor who launched the Aspiration investigation, which is a bit of a mad lib for how I would follow up the news of this award. Of course, we did this episode before we won the award, but like, that's actively like, what does this body think of this news is actively something that's relevant actually to how the Clippers continue to fight this.

They dismiss it as anonymized, principally gossip-based podcasting. And it turns out that the— this thing is probably very helpful in establishing that it's not quite that. And so, Mark, if you're out there, I would love— I would love to to, to chat, catch up.

Pablo, they asked me a question here in the studio that I did not have an answer to, which is, is there a trophy? And if so, is there one trophy or do we all get trophies? How does that work?

I think I was, I embarrassingly to, so Greg asked earlier, like, did you, did you, you know, did you envision winning this? Of course not. I mean, no, no, absolutely not. They never give this stuff to sports reporting. Also, by the way, different about this was that this was not in the format, to go to what I was saying before, it wasn't in the format that you typically honor. And I love the format they typically honor. It's like narrative public radio style, deep dive investigations, documentary style. You've sort of heard this style before. We have taken from that medium and made it our own, but we're fundamentally doing it in studio as a talk show with friends, which is bringing me back to Amin's question of like, what did this look like, I don't know. I mean, I just Googled it literally this morning because it occurred to me, like, what is this gonna be physically? Because I had never actually imagined what it would be physically. And I think it's like a, I think it's like a giant medal. I think it's something that we can actually, I don't wanna get ahead of myself in case this is against the terms of service that we all agreed to when we accept this.

Yeah, there it is. I think we can probably melt this down and make it into something else. Mm-hmm. If like it's not, I mean, because I get a giant thing like this. It's a circle. That's cool. But I would like a karate trophy. Yeah. And I don't— all right. Yeah. I want a giant karate trophy. I want to melt all the trophies into one giant karate trophy. Like we just won the Bloodsport tournament. Kumite. The kumite.

What do we know about where the NBA currently stands on everything?

That's the focus of today's episode. The most recent and interesting thing is that Steve Ballmer, aforementioned richest owner in American sports, guy who does not appreciate the conversation we've been having about this podcast, has been in court filings saying many things that amount to the clearest and most energized version of his self-defense. And so the NBA— what's so interesting is that the last section of the victim impact statement that Steve Ballmer filed, which went into the court filings ahead of the sentencing of the Aspiration co-founder Joe Sandberg, who has already pleaded guilty to two counts of wire fraud. What Steve Ballmer says at the end of that letter is that he wants the public to know that effectively— this is my translation— whatever Joe Sandberg told the NBA and Wachtell Lipton, he should not be trusted. And immediately, of course, by my detective Spidey sense says, what did Joe Sandberg tell the NBA? And then you look into the court filings on the other side, among the letters of support for Joe Sandberg, and there is a very carefully worded letter from Wachtell Lipton, the NBA's preferred investigators, filed on the side of the aisle of Joe Sandberg, which is again careful in its description of substantial assistance provided to the NBA in their investigation, but it seems that Joe Sandberg is now a player in the story of who said what to the people who can dole out a punishment.

And so the NBA, presumably, as we dissect all of this on the show today, they are looking ahead to not only the sentencing of Joe Sandberg, but to the information that they will perhaps disclose about what he said about his former business partner, Steve Ballmer. They did 9 figures of business together. That were the the sum total of their agreements was 9 figures. Okay. Over $100 million. And so the NBA, I believe, and I mean, we'll remember this as well from our Terry Rozier episodes, they are also very afraid of what the federal government might be interested in. And so it's just one of these reminders, Zaz, and this is a very long answer to your question, but the NBA is very concerned about what the government, this administration in particular, by the way, which I have many problems with, but in trying to decode what are they interested in, the question would be, can information come out because the federal government wants to investigate, wants to offer deals to the protagonists we've been mentioning for information about other people who are of interest to the government, much like the FBI and the DOJ did with Terry Rozier, that the NBA and the Miami Heat were caught blindsided seemingly by, or at least the Miami Heat was caught blindsided by.

What if that happens next? And so there's just more information looming now that's now being alluded to in court filings.

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Doesn't matter anywhere, we could do it in Buffalo or Baltimore, either.

You say you could do it where? Anywhere. Oh, whoa. Oh, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. He said he could do it anywhere. That's crazy. Murda, Murda, tell him.

Stugatz. I had no idea Mean had that in his locker. That might be his best. That's crazy. I'm not kidding.

That's crazy, killer. It's two Americas dead, you don't get it.

This is the Don Levitar Show with the Stugatz. Pablo, earlier, I know that sports investigative journalism podcast form has existed before, but you guys did kind of create this new, like, punk rock subgenre. And I'm curious what you learned about getting attention to hard journalism work being done, because it's difficult. I read the other day that a supermajority of Americans avoid the news entirely. Because they would rather be ignorant because ignorance is bliss. So I guess you're kind of lumped in, any journalist is, with this whole notion that there's this real world going on and not everything's great and it's hard to get people to pay attention. So what did you learn about drawing eyes and ears?

Yeah, look, the thesis of the show is that we should take the work really seriously but take ourselves less so. And what does that mean? It means that sports— and I say this a lot and I mean it, and I felt really proud of its effectiveness now. Sports really is the— it's the cheese you melt on the broccoli of whatever non-sports substance you want to discuss. And so I'm not saying we're trying to trick the audience, but really what I've been finding out here in the course of all of this, from both the most established institutions in journalism as well as like people who don't give a fuck about any of that, and especially that latter category of people who don't give a fuck about any of that, it's that if you actually have fun doing journalism and think that it's also meaningful at the same time, there are actually millions of sports fans, millions of dudes out there, principally, but billions of people out there who might actually agree with you. They might actually share the principle that, wait a minute, journalism could be fun and meaningful. And in fact, what they realize in the course of an investigation of the richest guy in sports is that maybe they believed that all along.

And that's the— that's like the power of doing it in this stupid but smart way that like Metal Ark, I think, has has embodied, like, independence, trying to do it in that way, smart but stupid, highbrow but lowbrow, maybe you agree with us if you only realize that it's a good time. Like, that's the thing that I think I found most assuring about this whole project.

It is interesting at its best, sports and comedy too can kind of Trojan horse in, can kind of grease the skids for serious journalism in a way that I guess maybe national politics, to Mike's point a second ago there, that people just avoid the news now. And I'm curious, well now you're the preeminent journalist of our society now, you're a Pulitzer Prize winner after all, so now you must answer for all of the media. Yeah. Are you surprised by, or how do you reconcile the original sin for me of the last decade was the claim from the guy who sits at the top of the mountain. Fake news, I don't like this. And now, not surprisingly, other deeply wealthy people use that. You talk about Steve Ballmer in the NBA, fake news, Pablo is— it's nonsense what he's saying. Is there a gap that these grotesquely wealthy people have found that allows them to— national political journalism has provided no better response than '80s New York gossip columnists have been able to respond to, "Well, that's fake news. That's not true." How say you? Is there something fundamental about journalism that's been exposed here that if you just say that's fake, that there's really no retort to that?

You know, I was thinking about actually this, this morning, like the fake news thing and how it started. And it really, by the way, started because people were on the other side of the aisle saying misinformation is fake news and we should be careful about it. And then to your point, like Trump just co-ops it and he says immediately, you are all fake news actually. Right. And so it's just important to remember how it started is that he did use the weapon against the people who are trying to be the purveyors and the arbiters of truth. And the thing that I've learned in my sort of study of how journalists, how journalistic work can be effective, it's that the answer is not to say those people can't talk. We gotta censor those people, right? Because I think if you look at the, the game, right, the thing that they would love is to claim, now we are being victimized, now we are being censored, now we are the political prisoners by the deep state of the mainstream media, right? Like, that's a dream. And so for me, what does it return to? It returns to the fact that we are waging a battle of persuasion.

And so The question is, can journalism be impactful but also something that people want to consume, right? Like, why do I melt cheese on the broccoli? Because you gotta wanna eat the stuff. No one's gonna make airplane noises and spoon-feed truth into your mouth. They need to want to actually eat it. They wanna, they need to wanna consume it. It needs to be something they look forward to. And if there's anything that I found from like the mainstream media perspective versus Trump, as like we were talking to a lot of the reporters yesterday at the Times who, want a Pulitzer for investigating Trump. It's that a lot of them, you know, I am in awe of what they do in terms of just the scale and the dangers and the legal risks. They're actively in court about these issues with the administration. And at the same time, they want to know, how did you convince people to think your work is fun? Hmm. And that's the legacy of how we did things insofar as we are still building it. And that's, I think, the solution to like the fake news problem. Insofar as it's been weaponized against the people who are trying to take risks to tell the truth.

Pablo, you gonna get high and find time to watch Mortal Kombat 2 with the boys or what this week? Hell yeah.

How do we feel about Johnny Cage?

I like that. Look, Cole Young was abysmal, a terrible lead, and not a canon character.

But you said he's still in this movie.

Yeah, but the, the poster placement suggests that he might be killed off early, which will pop. Fatality? We needed— yes, I hope it's gruesome. We needed a new hero It's Johnny Cage now, so I feel pretty good about it. I saw a clip of Kung Lao, who's now been risen, presumably by Quan Chi. I don't know, maybe you get on that. Kung Lao risen from the dead, now evil, fighting Liu Kang, his cousin.

Do we think, do we think there will be a babality? Ooh, babality. The fatalities were like, I'm like, what? More friendship. "Roasty!" We'll get one of those, we'll get a lot of that stuff, but like—

How many were those? Beastality, right?

Yeah, but that kind of depends on the state you're in.

Yeah, some states there are restrictions, others—

Look, you can barely tell where Cole Young is on there. Like, first off, Cole Young, terrible MMA fighter, lost to Eddie Tobias, which if you were a fan of the video game, you know that that was a salute, a tip of the razor edge cap to Eddie Tobias.

But this is why I ask the question, Mike. Look how central Johnny Cage is.

Yeah, well, yeah, he's a new— no, they, they— in the sequel they decided new hero, kind of. And you know what, before you laugh it off, Terminator 2 did this.

Wait a minute, can you go up? Can you guys scroll up, video team?

Cole Young, he sucks.

Hey, Cole, look at this dramatic reveal of the sunglasses. Yes. Who are we? Okay, so that's Kano on the left, of course.

Who died in the first one, but again, I think Quan Chi's at it again, raising people from the dead.

And we're doing Jax. That's Jax. Yeah, Jax was in the first one.

His arms got frozen by Sub-Zero.

How do they How do they just sneak in the tip of the metal arm, though? Jax mostly looks like a guy, and I just feel like they didn't really spotlight the whole "I have metal arm" thing.

Interesting. Interesting.

Yeah, I like that. I like that. That was a great call. It's like, hey, just like there's a guy on this poster, like, well, just make the little bit of metal.

Oh, on the poster, that's Noob Saibot over there on the left, which means Quan Chi is also Rizzi.

These outfits are indistinguishable from the—

No, no, no, no, no, no. So So Quan Chi rose Sub-Zero, and I was like, I'm confused. Is Sub-Zero a good guy or a bad guy? But the original Sub-Zero was a bad guy, resurrected, becomes Noob Saibot, which means, I guess, and I hope, Sub-Zero's brother assumes the Sub-Zero mantle and gives us the babyface Sub-Zero that we've all been hoping to see. Greg, which was your favorite character to play?

Uh, the one on the upper left. I don't know any of their names. I don't know what you guys are talking about, but Kano, he's got a knife, so I'm on his side.

All right. There you go. Yeah. Pablo, new episode out today. New episode out today.

It is not about what I now want to investigate, which is why are all the Asian people on the Mortal Kombat poster so small? Hmm. All right. Hmm. I just feel like, you know, our culture is not your costume. Although in this case, it is like a Met Gala-worthy costume.

You know, by the way, Pablo mentions that you have to make it appealing and fun for there to be an audience there. And I feel obliged to remind everybody, Pablo is a huge sports fan. So weigh in on the Knickerbockers controversy here involving Ben Stiller. Met Gala or Knickerbockers v. Sixers Game 1, you have a ticket to both, which one are you going to, Pablo?

I think Ben knows what he— I think Ben knows he fucked up. I mean, two things are true, right? So we've done episodes in which we unearthed the— this is very, I think, on topic. We unearthed the secret video Ben Stiller helped film to recruit Kawhi Leonard to the Knicks. That's the thing that happened. We— that's, that's in our channel somewhere. Like, Ben Stiller did that. He's a real fan. But you can't— look, I think it's insane that anyone is saying that Chalamet has already leapfrogged Spike. No, it's not. But if you—

no, it's not. It's absolutely insane. Spike was at the Met Gala last year instead of the Knicks playoff game.

I understand. I'm just saying that we're talking about a dec— multi-decades. And I think Ben Stiller is attempting to be on the medal stand, and he should be concerned that he is definitively off of it, despite the fact that I know him to be a real Knicks fan who's filmed Knicks propaganda. I think he, he knows he fucked up because, you know, I go Spike, then I mean, do I even put Chalamet second?

Dude, Chalamet waited outside of a Broadway show to get a picture with Landry Shaw.

Chalamet wasn't alive when Reggie Miller did what he did in those 9 seconds.

What are we talking about? Exactly. And he's still a Knicks fan.

Mike Lee was talking stuff to Reggie Miller. He got good moments. Chalamet ranks ahead of that guy?

Come on. I think there's a point for Jeremy. Yeah.

Uh, at the risk of sounding like a troll, uh, Chalamet's not gonna fuck Jeremy. I'm sorry. Oh, wow. That is shocking.

Hey, good luck catching up to me on the Emmys, Mr.

Pulitzer. Oh, damn. Did not see that coming.

Your thoughts on Kid Cudi kicking MIA off the tour? Uh, you missed that while you were winning your awards? She apparently had some political statements. I don't know if you followed what's been going on with her or this tour, which is a millennial's paradise because Big Boi from OutKast is also on this tour. I'd never seen M.I.A. I have tickets to see Kid Cudi on Saturday. Gonna take a few edibles, get a little high, sing a few songs, you know. And I'm not gonna get to see M.I.A. now because she went off and, uh, you know, went over to MAGA land. Did she? Yeah, she did.

Oh! Damn. Yeah.

And this Kid Cudi put out a statement first. He actually put out two statements. One was very refreshing because he just acknowledged, hey, the tour is selling really well, not selling well in Alabama. I have to cancel the tour stop in Alabama because the ticket sales were bad. That's much better than what Post Malone did, which was, I'm not selling tickets, but I'm not going to tell you that. I'm just going to finish my album, air quotes. Okay, Post. But then he was like, look, I told MIA what was up before the tour. None of this. I knew the deal. None of this bullshit. And she did the bullshit. Isn't she Sri Lankan? She's an immigrant. And the videos of the event actually support her statement, but everyone that was there was like, no, no, she went like off the right end.

Which is the wrong end?

In this case, because it's not great because it left people feeling a certain way. Gotcha. And Kid Cudi did not want people— it was bad vibes. Bad vibes. At a show that was all about good vibes.

Pablo, why was Liu Kang so small on the poster?

You know why?

Bicycle kicks. Yeah, the chicken kick. Chicken kick. It's bicycle kick. Yeah, we call it— I call it a chicken kick. Yeah, it's a chicken kick.

Yeah, it's a chicken kick. What? Never heard that. Yeah, the chicken kick.

No one says that. No, it's a chicken kick. What an insult. Chickens? You think chickens kick like that?

As a Cuban from South Florida nearby Hialeah, yes.

Pablo, You said it all. Congratulations on the Pulitzer. Good job, Pablo. Excellent job. Love you, Pablo. Excellent job.

Great day. Congratulations.

Congrats to this very strange company.

Don Libertard. You don't remember the idea for the home run call?

I was probably like, "That kind of thing," something.

Okay, no, the home run call was, "That kind of swing, that kind of thing." Stugatz. Oh, it's a good call. Thank you. And plus, it doesn't matter who's hitting it. Like, you're not tailoring it to a particular name.

Correct.

You know, all that jazz. You know, you don't gotta do that. Oh, that would be a great call. That kind of a swing.

That kind of thing. This is the Dan Levatar Show with the Stugatz.

Maybe Letterman's jacket for all the Pulitzer winners.

What about that?

I could get with that, man.

David? Blazers? What color would be that? That's the question. We have green and gold already claimed, and of course the New England Patriots, who represent our, our fighters from the late 18th century who beat back the Brits, of course honor their greatest players like Gronk, who's about to get this, with a red coat. A red coat! Yeah. Make sense of that one for me. So anyway, red's out too. Pulitzer.

Brown, would it be that color?

The color of the coin right there?

Yeah, copper. Can I play something for you guys here?

I hope it's Paper Planes by M.I.A. I don't care about her political leanings. I wanted to hear that banger of a song, and now I'm not going to get to.

Well, all I want to do is—

can you name a second M.I.A. song?

Yeah, Live Fast, Die Young, Bad Girl.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, that was like— she was on that Kanye song, right?

How's he doing? I'm not gonna have swagger like us. Uh, he was, uh, He actually pulled up to The Comedy Store the other day.

Yeah, I saw that. It's— look, I love The Comedy Store. Every time I'm in LA, I stop off there. The one thing I don't like is they do have this policy that if you are famous enough and you decide, I want to try stand-up tonight, they'll put you on. And he's one of those guys. It's like—

you have a problem with that policy?

I do. That's one of the fun things about going to a club like that.

No, I like— like, I know a lot of comedians, so I know what it means to be bona fides. To be on that stage and to get 5 minutes, 2 minutes, whatever it is. And so for someone to cut the line, not because they're funny, but because I'm just famous enough, well, we like it for the attention.

I think Dave said, can he have— he vouched for him. I went after Chappelle.

Oh, I thought you meant Dave Davidchik. I was like, that's your—

No, I'm on first name basis with Dave Chappelle. I should have told you.

But that's one of the fun things. Like, you got to take the good with the bad there. You know, the bad is it's someone who you don't think deserves to cut the line. But the good is Holy shit, I can't believe so-and-so just showed up.

I don't know, I'm a— I'm a com— maybe I'm a comic.

Yeah, but these people aren't— it's not like if Danny DeVito shows up, he's like, I'm gonna become a comedian. And it's like he's just going up there to add to the show, right? It's not generally replacing somebody that was gonna—

well, sometimes someone gets—

get what I mean?

People get bumped so the show can run late.

Yeah, a lot of people got bumped that day. I mean, but they have the Netflix Is a Joke Comedy Festival. So the Comedy Store is the place to be. I know a lot of comedians.

That's a weird kind of— yeah, humble.

You know a lot of comedians, right? You don't like to talk about it. He won't say it.

I, I, it, it—

you're embarrassed at how many comedians you know.

It's, it's like claiming, like, Sinatra, like, yeah, I know people in the mob.

All right, so like, I don't know, it's a weird claim to make about— all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a list. You tell me how many, how many comedians you know. Yeah. And how many comedians— I mean, you, you volunteer that. It's a comedian-off. I'll keep track.

Now, what are we considering knowing them?

Yes, what does that mean? Have you met once?

Are you friendly with? Would they invite you to a dinner?

Do they know your name? Are they in your phone?

Yeah, can you text them?

Okay, are they in your phone? Let's go.

All right, Amin, your first friend. I'm not playing this game, I won't do that. I know Jimmy Kimmel, so that's one for you. I mean, you know Jimmy Kimmel. I know that Jimmy Kimmel's one of your friends. That's a good one.

Beat that, Amin.

Well, if this can extend into people who have written comedy, Well, then I would imagine I'll win. You'd win.

I mean, yeah.

Comedians have done a 10-minute set in a comedy club? Yeah. If that's the standard, I imagine Amin will win. Yeah, like, I know a lot of stand-ups.

I don't know a lot of people, comedy writers. I know a lot of stand-ups.

No, I think it has to be people who have performed comedy.

All right. On the stage or on the page. Very rarely do those things overlap.

All right, I'll just throw out a name. Who knows Eddie Murphy?

Yeah. Uh, Dave?

I know his longtime security guard. I do.

Closer than a mean. All right, that's a point for Dave. Is it? A security guard? Who knows the Sandman?

I have met the Sandman, and in fact, I had the opportunity to tell the Sandman once that I appreciated him as Cockroach and Theo's best friend on the Cosby Show. Oh yeah, that's right.

Wow, great pull. And he used to—

and he chuckled— and he used to shoot hoops out there outside my window in my first job when I was a writer's assistant when I got to Los Angeles, and he remembered that fondly. This is 2-0 Damashek for me.

Okay, so what I would throw out there, while I have never spoken to Adam Sandler, a friend of mine met him and then told him, there's— I love you, I love your work, no matter what that podcast— he's talking about Cinephobe— says about him. And Sandler said, what podcast? And then my buddy's like, yeah, I didn't tell him the name. I'm like, why wouldn't you tell him the name? I could have been in the next Happy Gilmore, whatever. Just like, hey, Happy Gilmore 6, Amin's in the background.

I like to do that. That's a move I'm keen on, is going up to people who are famous for better, more prestigious roles and identifying them for an obscure role earlier in their career. I went up to Bradley Whitford once, you know, noteworthy from West Wing and otherwise, and I was like, Revenge of the Nerds 2, right? I laugh, and then they kind of smirk, and that is how you do it.

Amin's still stuck on zero.

No, he knows Brad Williams. Oh, okay, so he's in a poop chat with him. I know him too. Who knows Andrew Schultz?

That's a push. Andrew Schultz? There you go. Good job, Amin.

Congratulations, somebody responsible for perhaps costing us our society.

I like how people put that on him.

I mean, who else should I put it on?

I don't know, maybe the people who voted.

All right, that leads me to my next one.

He's one of them.

Joe Rogan.

Never met him. He took over the Man Show though. I worked on the original Man Show and then he took over the Man Show though. Got manlier. Yeah, apparently. Yeah, the, the, uh, the more extreme version of the Man Show.

Oh, I got one. Russell Peters.

Okay, that's a good one. Met him. It's 3-3 now. He's a pal. Oh wait, he's a pal.

He's a pal. Hung out with them on Friday.

That goes to Dave. Rob Schneider.

Never met him, no. You'd love him. He counts as a comedian at this point?

Yeah, you have to be able to tell jokes.

I mean, he still performs at the end.

He was on Kill Tony.

Kill Tony. Big Joe. I think this is boring. Is it? Roy, I'm gonna look to you as the soundboard.

Yes, it's born. I want to play something for you guys that took place yesterday. So you had a couple hockey games last night. Hurricanes won, Golden Knights won, great. But the biggest story in the NHL yesterday took place in Toronto. So the Toronto Maple Leafs are a dumpster fire, and they have hired, uh, as their new, uh, I guess their new executive team, right? One, Mats Sundin, who of course is a Maple Leafs legend. Everyone's gonna like that. And the other guy is called John Chayka, right? Chayka. Chayka. John Chayka, uh, really young executive who flamed out wildly in Arizona like 10 years ago, uh, amidst a bunch of controversy. And so the Maple Leafs have hired him as their new GM, and this has been met with incredibly negative reaction. Now, I am especially interested in your opinion here first, Greg, when I play this clip for you. So the Toronto Maple Leafs brass, uh, with John Tcheko on the stage there, and I guess the guy in the middle is the president— probably the president of the team. CEO. CEO. Okay, CEO of the team. And they're fielding questions. And so listen to this.

I believe this reporter is from the Toronto Sun. Steve Simmons of the Toronto Sun. Steve Simmons from the Toronto Sun. Uh, look, you could ask tough questions, of course, and especially in a market like Toronto hockey, like, tough questions should be expected. But this to me is, is so, so aggressive. I'd like you to give this a listen.

It's worth coloring it in, Zazz, that, you know, the Toronto Maple Leafs are the headquarters of the NHL. Is that fair to say that, Roy?

Yes, no, they are.

Capital of the hockey universe.

Yeah, and so, so this this question, uh, you want to have to ask and get answered tough questions, but this is so aggressive. Give this a listen.

Uh, Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun. For Keith, um, you talk about the due diligence that you did on John prior to hiring him and now hiring him. Um, in the past, say, 3 to 4 days, I have been in contact with about 20 people who work in the National Hockey League, many of whom are prominent names that we would all know. And of the 20 people I spoke to, one was supportive of John's hiring and the other 19 thought it was a sham, to be perfectly honest. Words were used like con artist, liar, salesman. How did you come to a different conclusion than I was able to come to in a very short time?

I must have talked to different people.

That's it?

Because I'm telling you, the hockey world today is astounded by this announcement.

Okay.

And your response to that is, is we've conducted due diligence and it was deep due diligence. It was a thorough process. And I'm quite happy with where we've landed. It's really aggressive. Yeah, Greg, super aggressive.

I think if the questioner, the guy, can back up all of the things he's implying and alleging and quote some of those 19 people, then it legitimizes it. I mean, it's difficult, but, you know, as you all say, this is the capital of hockey. They've been an embarrassment lately. They need to nail the hire. And if this guy just made a very dubious, controversial hire, that's newsworthy. And that was conveyed in the question. I don't really have a problem with it.

Oh, okay. That's interesting because I'm not saying that anyone should have a problem with it. Just like I watched that and I've read about this guy Cheka and, you know, there's no past success, and there was, uh, like, like, scandal where the Coyotes were, were tagged by the league. They lost draft picks and all that. Like, this guy apparently would never been hired by anybody else. He's not a name that, like, like a hot name that's out there. But, uh, but you're cool with the— you're good with the line of questioning?

Well, he said provided that he can go and provide additional context. Steve Simmons is the name of the journalist, uh, here, and he has gone on other shows and he has provided additional stories. I mean, they're in the press conference format He's not going to rattle off all the stories right there, but, you know, 19 sources is a lot. And you can hear it in his voice, what he did there was pretty brave.

Yeah, I agree, Mike. That's the main takeaway. Cheka is sitting right there too, right? For the listener, you don't hear his voice in that clip. He's sitting there on a human level. We just talked to Pablo about journalism, and, you know, access journalism is a thing. And, you know, You— to do that takes balls.

Yeah, I almost want to hear the sound again because it's great. Now with the added context of him being there, right there at the press conference, and his voice trembling. Another one of the stories that he provided was when he was in Arizona, they had these offices that you could look inside. They were surrounded by glass, and Jacob would have 6 monitors and they would have all these fancy graphs. And one of the people in the front office was like, I wanna know what's going on there. I wanna understand what all these fancy graphs are. So he goes in with an IT person, and the IT person says 5 of these are fake. They're not actually working monitors. This is just a still image here to make it seem like he's doing some kind of advanced work. He doesn't need 6 monitors. He only needs the one.

The reaction has been so overtly negative, I don't think he's going to survive. I think he's going to resign before he even starts. Like, reaction's been really, really aggressively negative.

Do we know what the thinking was? I know he said, oh, we talked to different people, but what was the thinking?

I think there are parallels here actually with what's happening at the University of Miami in that this was an insular search and they thought it was a good idea. They thought it was a good idea and they weren't talking to enough people on the outside. He said they did their due diligence. Precious little evidence. What? What? What? What? What? What? The other night I was staying in. At least that was the plan. Then the text from my buddy Eagle Eye comes in. Mike, we've got the games on. I say, yeah. I grab a pack of Miller Lite and immediately my plan's gone. Now it's playoff basketball. Every possession feels huge. Baseball's on another screen and I somehow care about that too. Everybody's got takes flying. Nobody's watching just one thing and we're all way more into it than we ever expected. It was one of those nights that you take a sip, you look around, and you think, yeah, this was the right move. That's why I reach for Miller Lite. It's clean, refreshing, easy to drink, brewed for taste with simple ingredients, just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs. The original light beer since 1975, and it still hits different.

Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste, 96 calories. Go to millerlite.com/dan to find delivery options near you Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.