Transcript of Mendoza’s World: The 18-Hole Mystery & What Chaos! with Pete Blackburn and DJ Bean

Aight, hello, my fellow football Americans. We got the boys from What Chaos coming up.

In the meantime, I'm all set to head from LA to the banks of the Three Rivers for the NFL Draft. Three words for that: ooh la and la. Now, in a related matter, in the coming days, yinz are gonna be hearing a lot from the talking heads about how Pittsburgh's teams and people are bonded by a shared blue-collar ethos. And I'm here to say, what a load of shit. Listen, I know the entertainment and sports media industries both love their mythology, but come on already, everybody.

It's 2026! You know, my hometown and LA have more in common than yinz might realize. Believe it or not, neither Hollywood nor Pittsburgh suffers fools.

Well, wait, you can be a fool as long as you're good at your job.

You can be from Orange County, Sydney, Australia, or Miami of Ohio. What matters is taking care of business when it's go time. By the way, why are 95% of our best actors from Australia? It's weird, right? Either way, it's not about blue collar, it's about competence. And that's the disconcerting thing with the Pittsburgh Steelers right now. We sure they know what they're doing? It's been 7 years since Ben Roethlisberger hurt his elbow. How long is this gonna take, fellas? Before you answer, consider Pittsburgh native Kurt Cignetti just did it in 2 years. It's been 16 years since the Steelers played in the Super Bowl, and their best option to change that, they think at least, is a starting QB who hasn't played in a Super Bowl in 16 years. So in other words, you guys are just giving up, huh? The roster's great, but you need to try and find a real answer at QB already, and no, an old hippie who's afraid of a pass rush just delays that. Now, as for the blue-collar jive, that whole thing about how only certain towns like hardworking teams. Yeah, Pittsburghers are rightly proud of our forefathers who did save the free world in World War II, That said, Pittsburgh's also somehow managed to enjoy the decades of Penguins success, even though they've been based less on a gritty work ethic than on the high skill and speed of guys like Crosby and Lemieux.

Also, if only the hardhatted people of the Rust Belt can appreciate an honest day's work, what's that say for fans in the Sun Belt? People in Miami wouldn't enjoy the Dolphins winning the Lombardi if it was built around a tough defense? Yeah, sure, Pittsburghers work hard, But people work hard from coast to coast here in Football America. And for what it's worth, in the year of our Lord 2026, the Steel City isn't really that much of a steel city. It's a healthcare and university town. Meds and engines.

It's also a TV and movie town.

The Dark Knight, Mr.

Rogers, The Pitt, things of that nature.

And the QB of the '70s Steelers dynasty made movies with Burt Reynolds, recorded second-rate country music albums, bore a bad toupee and was married to a figure skater briefly. I think the point of Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is showbiz doesn't care if you're idiosyncratic as long as you're competent at your core. You can be flaky, a margarita drunk, but you gotta show up with a flamethrower when it counts. The hippies are the empty bad guys in the movie because they aren't trying. They're just in the way. Hollywood's got DiCaprio and Brad Pitt. Pittsburgh's got Bradshaw and Yager and Fats Holmes and the Cobra and Jeff Reed and Doc Ellis and also the Pirate Parrot. Yeah, a rangy collection there. But the point is the color of yin's collar don't matter. It's getting the job done. And sneaking into the first weekend of the playoffs for a cameo every year ain't getting it done no more. Not with the Hall of Fame careers of Hayward and Watt winding down.

No one cares if Aaron Rodgers is a conspiracy theorist who lives in a cave.

They do care he's 43 and therefore unlikely to improve on a statistically mediocre 25. Good enough for a team that claims to be in win-now mode?

I don't think so.

Pittsburgh, you're on the clock.

You should start acting like it.

Meantime, let's start the show. Yes, hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America, presented as ever by our pals at DraftKings. DraughtKings, the crown is yours. Very exciting times. Like I say, off to Southwestern PA region of football America.

We've got the puck drop coming up here. I mentioned at the top there the boys from What Chaos, one of the preeminent hockey shows out there, uh, joining us in just a second to break that down. Some other hooey and applesauce we'll get to with Blackburn and Bean in just a sec.

My Pittsburgh Pirates are off to a good start. Heady days.

I'm just concerned about what the Steelers are gonna do.

It's a big spot.

I'm nervous.

As somebody who grew up in Pittsburgh, this is maybe the biggest event in the city's history, or at least that they would have ever hosted.

So, um, you know, I hope it goes off and everything, and I'm excited that I get to be there. Specifically, I will be there with our pal Lucy Rodin at McFadden's on draft night, Thursday night, live streaming along with the rest of the Abattard gang. Um, make sure if you're in the Pittsburgh area, if you're anywhere near the north side, uh, PNC Park and Akershaw Stadium, right nearby there, right across the Clemente Bridge, everybody, that's where the McFadden's is.

And you can come and see us. We'll be sitting in there. We're going to be talking about the draft, this, that, and the other.

Meantime, let's do our usual business here.

Let's say hello to Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes, and now He's going to be around a little bit more, our pal Ethan Budowski, just in time for the NHL playoffs as well. Gino, it's episode number 60. We made it, 60 full episodes. So let's honor the player in the NFL or sports history who wore the number 60 best.

Take it away.

Options were limited here, Dave. We're into offensive lineman territory as far as football goes. So Sean—

even as an offensive lineman, I mean, yeah, even offensive linemen don't take—

so I'll throw out Sean O'Hara there, Super Bowl center.

A lot of— say, I must say, a lot of centers. Yeah, the '60s.

Yeah, we got— if, I mean, if you go back in time, I didn't see any of these guys play, but you got Otto Grams mixed in there. We got Chuck Benarek.

What's going on over there?

What's going on? Somebody's running a vacuum cleaner. Somebody got the Roomba running.

See, the thing is, when you put your studio inside a hotel, they tend to build stuff in there. Fire alarms tend to go off. Things tend to happen. So what's happening now is directly underneath us, they're building something. I don't know what it is, but they've been at it and I don't want to know. I hope they're very—

yeah, you know, that's right.

I don't want to know.

This hotel's been open for 3 years and they're still building stuff.

Yeah, but it's like retail space under us. That's what it is. So I love it there.

Yeah. I can't imagine Miami or the entire state of Florida offers up a better pizza than Vice Versa offers out of that hotel. But yeah, so I interrupted you. We interrupted you, Gino.

There's nothing to interrupt.

Chuck Bednarik.

Chuck Bednarik. Autogram. I just didn't recognize the name. Of course I didn't see him play.

And Dubrikashov Ferguson.

And there you go.

All name team.

Great name.

Dubrikashov.

Dave, I've got a hockey submission.

Ooh, go ahead.

Jose Theodore. War 60.

Ooh, I have a baseball one.

I can't believe I didn't get that. Who's—

I was going to say there's got to be a baseball guy.

Dallas Keuchel.

Ah, perfect game, Dallas Keuchel.

Yeah.

Decent names. That's not—

yeah, some halfway decent names you're throwing out there too. I, I say it every time DeBrikashaw comes up. I think it's a shame. It's, it's a shame if your, if your home gets taken down by a hurricane, period. Why we then name hurricanes after just random people?

Isn't it bad enough to have your house destroyed by a hurricane?

It's even worse if it's destroyed by, by Hurricane Ellen, you know? Can't we— we should name them after football players because then it would feel like, well, that makes some sense that you, your house got destroyed by Hurricane DeBrikashaw. Hurricane Mean Joe. Now at least there's some dignity to it. Like, you put up a good fight, but you had no chance against this. But, you know, you know, it's like that SNL skit, Dave, Hurricane Meg.

Like, Hurricane Ditka. Who would win in a fight, Ditka or Hurricane?

You think I hated Aaron Rodgers before?

Whoa, let me tell you, knock my house down to be a problem.

Um, also coming off of the Masters real quick, I know nobody cares. Ethan, do you play any golf?

Not as much as I'd like, Dave. That's always my response to 'do you play golf?' I, uh, I was watching the Masters.

I haven't really sat around on a Saturday and Sunday and watched, like, you know, pretty much— I watched Rory McIlroy's and the leaders, um, pretty much entire rounds on Saturday and Sunday. Why? Because I'm lazy and I have an empty life. But also, I enjoyed watching it, and I also— I can't help when I'm watching it to think what hole I would most want to play. And I've decided for everybody for next year, or if you want to give me something, let me play at Augusta. And I don't have to play the full 18, as I've said before and I'll say again.

I don't think—

I think the, the problem with golf is too many holes.

We get the idea, like it should be like 12 holes. All right, because once you get around 10, 11, you know what, around hole 8, I'm like, uh, how many more holes we got here already?

It's too much.

Like, we don't need—

like, it's too much.

We need to be out here anymore. 12 holes, perfect. That's it.

And then we go How do they land on 18? Now that I think about it, it's a great question. Yeah. How do they figure that out?

Robin— does Robin Williams explain that in his outfit?

Because like, because 20 is nice and round. 15 makes sense.

20 holes of golf is way too many.

20 holes.

Oh, but 18's just—

no, I've done 18. Can't do it.

That's what I'm saying is that 18 is just a little bit like—

it's, it's stupid.

It's almost too much. But it's like any more than 18 and he would be like, oh my God, I can't play, you know what, golf.

That's a great question from Mike Fuentes though. How did they do that? And I bet you it is, I bet its origin story is similar to like why a marathon is 26.2. It's just like, that's the actual distance. I bet that's like in Ireland or Scotland, they were like, well, this real estate only allows for 18 of these holes to be out here. I'm gonna say a small piece of Ethan's, 20's too much.

So you need the next, even number so you can say, I'm out here on the back 9, you know, because you can't say I'm out here on the back 7 and a half if there's 15, right? So it's gotta be a round number.

So I've got an answer.

Yeah.

I've got an answer.

What did AI tell you?

So St. Andrews, the old course where golf was born, was reduced from 22, which, why was it 22, to 18 holes in 1764. Modern, which is why your standard golf course is 18 holes. So before America was an independent country is when golf was determined to be an 18-hole.

A lot of things happened before. Okay, well, very modern.

All right, listen, America, America modifies things anyway, and we're a lazy people and we want convenience more than anything else.

I think going from 18 down to 12 so you free up a bigger chunk of the rest of your day, I think is worth it.

Let's go to 12. Consider it in the meantime. When I play Augusta, the holes I would most want to play, I want to play 13, the par 5 beauty with, with that, that's— I think that's number— oh, I say I forget the names, uh, of each hole. And I think 16, just, I know it's a shorter par 3, but that's where so many special things have happened. That's where Tiger chipped it in, but that's where Nicklaus in '86 stuck it and it rolled next to the pin and you're like, oh, it's gonna go in, but it didn't. But he, but he made the putt for birdie and the place went wild. I think, uh, I think that one— or is 12 is the other—

12 is Golden Bell. That's the most beautiful hole on the course. Yes, 12.

Yeah, I might like to try to play 11 there. Anyway, I'm vamping around here because we're going to talk about some puck and, uh, and all the rest of it. To be honest with you, we could sit here and do a lot of draft talk, um, but at this point I think You're pretty much saturated in it. I know I am. You've read all the experts. We've had Daniel Jeremiah on to break it down for you. Go back and listen to that episode. You've seen the myriad mock drafts. What do they amount to? Nothing, pretty much. I think if you look at Daniel Jeremiah, he has some sense of where the general managers are leaning, at least in terms of position group that they might be looking at.

But after that, how do I know that this predictive stuff about the draft that's about to happen is meaningless because the guys whose job it is to do it only hit at about a 50% rate. The guys who have devoted their careers to identifying just the right guy for my pro football team to draft get it right about half the time.

So media people and otherwise doing all this sort of— I, I get it, we do it with game predictions too, but at least You can— it's one or the other instead of just throwing crap against the wall or names, uh, up on a board there. Um, Gino, do you want to talk about your, uh, your top 5 or 6 guys in this draft?

Uh, I mean, I got a personal one. I mean, just because based on the guys I saw play the most, um, Mendoza obviously number 1 just because he's gonna go number 1 and, you know, that's the most important position in sports. I saw Jeremiah Love run all over everyone this year when Notre Dame was trying to go undefeated at the end of the year. Well, basically from game 3 on to try and make the College Football Playoff. He would be my second best. I watched Reuben Bain torment people, just destroy one after one offensive line after another.

The Reuben Bain story is bizarre. And we talked about— well, you know, because, you know, we talked about the face mask and the burning tree and all that with Laramie Tunsil and what that did. That happened like literally 20 minutes before the start of the draft. This is a weirder thing, and it does seem like the, the, the, the wonks were aware of it for some time, but the public kind of wasn't made aware of it. And how that will impact things, I'm not quite sure. Ultimately, I think given some time, I— Laramie Tunsil, I think, would have gotten— if you would have seen that video 2 weeks instead of 2 minutes before the draft, I think it wouldn't have impacted his draft status.

I think when it happens in the moment, like, what are you supposed to do?

Well, we better not make a mistake, just take somebody else who's a safer pick. I bet you Reuben Bain goes where he was gonna go.

Yeah, I mean, how could you not? That guy is just a beast. Uh, and then my, my last— well, there's 3 of them. There's 3 Ohio State defenders. You can put them in any order you want. They were all badasses all year. Caleb Downs is my personal favorite. Um, Sonny Styles is just ridiculously fast, and Arvell Reese I think is Probably going to get drafted second overall just because of the value of his position. Uh, probably a defensive end now. Kind of reminds me a lot of, um, I can't put the name— he just got traded to Green Bay from Dallas.

Uh, Micah Parsons.

Oh, Micah Parsons.

Yeah, that guy. Um, I hear you. And let's see, now we're doing—

we're like, here's who I— I just—

the player that I like, who I think is going to be— and it's not because it's the same position, but I'm surprised by Caleb Downs. Sort of like the, the range of where you seeing him get picked there. I think he is going to be like a Kyle Hamilton.

He looks like the best defensive player in the draft to me.

I mean, if he falls to 10, which you see, or you see him even below then, if you— if he falls to there, I think he's a real steal. All right, listen, see, I said we don't need the deep dive, the draft, and we just spent 3 minutes doing exactly that. But it's the top of the thing. Can't wait to get out there right now though. Let's get it to a couple of guys who are on their way to Buffalo, New York for round 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Our pals from What Chaos.

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Here we go, two of the best in the biz when it comes to talking about puck, the sports in general, really the game of life. Two of the more entertaining fellas talking into microphones right now, DJ Bean, Pete Black, Burn.

They add up for what chaos, telling you about the NHL.

And when better to yap with them than on the eve of the Stanley Cup playoffs?

What's happening, Bean and Pete?

How are you, fellas?

What's up, buddy?

Thanks for having us, very much appreciated.

Well, how am I? I'm, you know, I'm over the moon, as you can imagine.

You should be.

You know, we're, we're back where we belong, chasing Stanley Cups and, and all that. And I appreciate you guys making the time for us today, because I know as soon as we wrap up here, you're off to Buffalo, New York for a dandy series, one of many great series in round one shaping up. Which is the one— I guess you have just told us with your actions on your way to go watch the Bees play the Sabres— is that the best series to, in your opinion right now, or is there another one that catches your fancy?

We had said like as the Sabers run turned into a— wait, the Sabers are the best team in hockey. Since whatever date, we were like, if they make the playoffs, we're getting a house and we're going to Buffalo. And the closer we've gotten to the playoffs, I'm like, ah, damn, like I'm so excited to go, but I'm like, I forgot that if the Sabers make the playoffs, there's still what, 7 other series? So it's gonna be a handful. But ultimately, yes, Sabers doing anything in the playoffs has to be the most interesting, but I'm not just saying this. Penguins-Flyers is going to be a party and I can't wait for that.

Yeah.

I mean, like the Bruins-Sabres is the series that we're most personally invested in. It's the first What Chaos Bowl in history because I'm a Bruins fan and our producer Sean is a Sabers fan. So that's going to be very interesting. But I would say that there's, there's a number of other series that I would rank above that just from an entertainment perspective. Montreal and Tampa is going to be unbelievable. That's going to be electric. I mean, everybody's been waiting for Dallas, Minnesota, and like, those guys are just going to kill each other every night when they hit the ice. So like, and then if we get Edmonton, Anaheim, each one of those games is probably going to have 15 goals. So there's going to be something for everybody, and this first round is going to absolutely rock.

So Boston this millennium is, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, is the place to be for a sports fan with all the championships and all of that. How do you figure that your pal there, Bean, with all the stuff going on in New England, vibes to the Edmonton Oilers? I remember, I'm older than you guys, I remember in 1990 when the mighty Oilers, minus Wayne Gretzky, not the straw that stirs the drink apparently because they were able to win a Stanley Cup without him, against those Boston Bruins and the lights went out and the heat went and the AC went out and so the ice was steaming up. It was memorable for a number of reasons. But explain how your partner there, Blackburn, winds up rooting for a team in Western Canada.

Well, I think that the first important piece here is that he used to work as a beat reporter for the Boston Bruins or covering the Boston Bruins. And so you get a little disenchanted or, you know, just a little too close to the product and you try to remove yourself from it a teeny bit. He refers to the Bruins as family, but not necessarily lovers these days. And around that time, I do remember this because we've worked together for quite some time, even outside of hockey. He fell in love with Leon Draisaitl, like early, early, early on before he became a household name, fell in love with Leon Draisaitl. Then, you know, keeps an eye on him, falls in love with Connor McDavid, the product that's going on in Edmonton, how electric it is all the time, and just like kind of committed to that being his team. And I feel like the final nail in like the passion behind the Oilers fandom was in 2022, the Oilers played the Calgary Flames in the second round, Battle of Alberta, and it was the most— oh, what a fireworks-driven 5-game playoff series you will ever see.

It was electric. And like, I have been a diehard, like, will watch every hockey game I can possibly get my eyes on for years and years and years. And because of DJ's fandom with the Oilers, he came over to my house like every game for that series. And during that series, I feel like our fandom kind of ramped up even more. And it was during that series we were like, goddamn, we should do a hockey show together. This would be so much fun. And that's kind of where the seeds of What Chaos were planted during that series.

Yeah, we'd been doing a pop culture show because I had a job doing something in hockey. Pete had a job writing about hockey, and we did a show together and the people who knew it enjoyed it, but it was definitely niche. It didn't— it is pronounced niche, not niche, listeners. And like The people who liked it loved it, but it was not super popular. And people would say to us, they're like, you do a show every week. If you just did like— if you both did a hockey show, wouldn't there be a bigger audience for it? We were like, no, we like what we're doing and everything. And during that series, we were like, you know what, we should be doing a hockey show. And yeah, the Oilers fandom thing was like, for the reasons Pete laid out, started almost kind of as a bit. Because like I'm covering the team that's good, but I kind of like watching the team that is so bad. And I'd be like, hey, you see the Oilers game last night? And then eventually, like, I caught myself. I was like, I am what, like, paying for the package and watching every Oilers game and not making any jokes about it.

I just like this team. And that series rolled around and like Pete was pulling for the Flames because the Flames were loaded that year. If you remember, they had everybody. And like, I was like, yeah, I am oddly kind of a diehard Edmonton Oilers fan now. And when we started the show, we started the show a month into the 2023-24 season. That was when the Oilers were the worst team in hockey to begin the season. And so we were playing catch up talking about what was going on in the league and everything kind of was about the Oilers, them firing their coach, them going on this long winning streak, them buying out Jack Campbell. All, or sending down Jack Campbell, all this stuff, like everything just kept coming up Oilers. And it's, I don't know, you want to call it bandwagon-y, whatever. There's probably an argument there, but truly very—

I feel sad for you because you got so close over here.

Yeah.

You got so close and you wound up, you know, you're like the, the guy with Dr. Jones going into, in The Last Crusade, you chose poorly. You made it into the room. And you were choosing between two dynasties of the last 35, 40 years, you could have taken the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Warning.

Like that, right?

Like that. Um, you chose— I mean, obviously the Oilers have had some high highs over the last 35, 40 years, but the dynasty, the face of the NHL, the team, uh, since 1990 is the Pittsburgh Penguins. And in the meantime I didn't say anything funny. I didn't think that. I was making a statement of fact. But, but you're obviously not wrong.

Yeah. No, like, I mean, yeah, scoreboard. I mean, like Oilers versus Penguins since 1990. Yeah, it's not even close. But I was respecting your ability or this is just what the hockey gods wanted for the conversation to find itself with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Well, two things. Two things about that. Um, let's, uh, let's just— first of all, I loved the national anthem, the O Canada, when, when in that series in particular when the Oilers fans would— there was no music being played and they would just sing it a cappella as 17,000 Canadians strong. That was great. Second best ever to, uh, what was the old cop's name, Sluage, at the Ottawa games who would do it. In half English, half French. That was the best. But Drysidle and McDavid hold a bad honor, which is they are the greatest duo of teammates in the history of people to never win a championship together. And that's not just the NHL. I'm talking about any sport you want to talk about.

I agree with that.

Like you're just talking about just together.

Yeah, I'm talking about together. I'll give you the, the two, and believe me, I've, I, I have meditated on this previously. The other contenders would be, and actually it extends to not just two players but three, the Killer Bees era in Pittsburgh. It's about five years long with Roethlisberger, one of the five best quarterbacks, Le'Veon Bell, one of the two best running backs, and Antonio Brown, the best wide receiver at the time in the league. Not even a Super Bowl appearance. And Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani were together for about 5 years. They never sniffed the playoffs. But Drysdale and McJesus, all the Hart Trophies and everything else, and they've never won a Stanley Cup.

Can I submit, uh, Tom Brady and Randy Moss?

That's exactly where I was gonna go.

Yeah, yeah, I think that that one definitely applies. Like, best quarterback ever, and like, probably I don't know if Randy Moss is the best wide receiver of all time, but like, he's certainly up there.

I kind of still think he is. I'm not— I'm usually like a whoever did it most recently is better guy, but Randy Moss and Dominic Hashek, I think, are my two guys where I'm like, I still think you drop them in right now and they're the best.

Well, you know what, let's play that game. I— there's one I love playing, what the if, and let's do it, an NHL edition of it right now. Let's trade The best player of the millennium, all due respect to McJesus. Again, scoreboard tells the tale. Sidney Crosby, one half of the guys who saved the sport, saved the league, um, uh, near the turn of the millennium. Sidney Crosby, let's take him at the height of his powers, let's say 2012-ish. Let's send him to 1983 in exchange for 1983 edition Wayne Gretzky. Gretzky to modern times. How's that go for the two players?

I think that if the, like, '80s Oilers have— instead of Wayne Gretzky, instead of '80s Wayne Gretzky, have 2012 Sidney Crosby— I'm gonna get killed for this— I think they're better. I think that if you have 2012 Wayne Gretzky is kind of a special case because I would love to see what Wayne Gretzky would look like in 2012 if he had the training, nutrition, coaching of players in 2012.

But yes, you have— when you do this game, when you do an exercise like this, yes, I—

the modern player would be better than somebody from 30 years ago. But as much as we can sort of blur that, but here's those elements, like, you know, Famously, like Mario Lemieux, as a for instance, would say like, oh, the season's about to start, I better start stop smoking those nails and eating the fries on the side of my sandwich. Literally, that was his training regimen to get right. That wouldn't be the case in, in the year of the Lord 2020.

You never know, Alex Ovechkin is still eating Fritos and Subway sandwiches before every game. Uh, here's the case that I'll make for Sidney Crosby. I think that Sidney Crosby can be defined as the greatest grinder and the most skilled grinder of all time. And I think that his success would hold up in any era. And I think that he's just one of the best players to ever play the game, full stop.

I think he, you know, even the generational differences, strength and all of that, I think he would overwhelm with, with his wheels first of all. And like you say, I don't think it's owed to modern training regimens so much as it is just what the hockey gods gave him, which is those Earl Campbell-sized thighs. If you've ever been around Crosby in person, it's striking.

You're like, my God, your lower half is something inhuman. I mean, I don't know what you got going on.

I'm not working blue when I say that, by the way, about his lower half. I'm just talking about his two legs. That's it.

Um, right. I think, I think, I think he would light it up.

Those defense— the defensemen of, of that age would not know what to do with somebody with that speed and that skill. But the other side that really is intriguing, and you say, DJ, you're gonna get killed for it, I think it's pretty straightforward. There is no makeup of, of like modern training route, weights and eating and all that, that would get Wayne Gretzky up to speed. To be competitive in this age. I'm not saying he would be a bum. I think he would be somewhere stats line along the line of Adam Oates. I don't think he could dominate the sport given the way he was built, his wheels and all the rest of it. How say you?

Yeah, no, I think that if you— like I say, you drop '80s Wayne Gretzky with— I don't like— even with— if you factor in the coaching and the nutrition, the training, everything like that, you do have to give Wayne Gretzky the benefit of the doubt that I— that he would still be unbelievable. I don't think that he would be head and shoulders above everybody else the way that he was when he played, but I think that right now, I think that like McDavid being as much better as he is than everybody else right now in the NHL, might be the biggest gap we're ever going to see again for best player in league. And I don't even think that the gap is enormous. I think that McDavid is definitely the best player in the league, that when you watch him, you think that this guy is playing a different sport than everybody else. When you watched Wayne Gretzky in the '80s and even in the '90s, at points, like, it looked like he was a different species. We're never going to see that.

I disagree with that. I disagree with that. I think McDavid pops when you watch the Oilers play, you think this is the fastest human beings have ever been on skates, and he blows past all of them. It's remarkable to see. But the cross-sports analogies that I always make for McDavid versus Crosby are like, McJesus is sort of like coming off the Olympics, like watching the giant slalom going super fast, and he just, he gets around those gates before they even know what hit him, and he's wending his way through them. That doesn't lend itself to playoff success. Crosby is more of a NASCAR, whether it's the driver or the car itself. He's more than happy to bonk off of you and go through you and around you and all the rest of it. That does lend itself to springtime hockey. Um, so I, I get the— that's up. But that's a super interesting point you make. What is the greatest difference between the best player in his sport and the second best? Um, Gretzky, for what it's worth, empirically was not that. That was Mario Lemieux. When he jumped over the boards every time onto the ice, you were aware of him every single shift.

Everybody on both teams was, everybody in the stands was. That wasn't the Gretzky effect. It was more sort of like at the end of the game, like, how'd Gretzky have 4 points?

That was weird, right? Just sort of—

he was a points accumulator, which isn't to knock him. He just wasn't as viscerally dynamic as Mario Lemieux was.

I'm so glad that Mario played in the era that he did too, where like you were allowed to basically assault players on the ice because he was allowed to play through that and could do it very effectively. Whereas like if he played now, you can get away with certain things, but you cannot get away with the transgressions that people got away with against Mario Lemieux. And I'm just glad that we got to witness that.

Yeah, you know, that, that's the other sad thing that he and his son Sidney Crosby have in common, that they missed giant chunks of their prime because of injuries.

And where would they be in Sorry, I was gonna point out to you that you mentioned 2012 Sidney Crosby. Sidney Crosby played 22 games in 2012, but he still had 37 points. Like, if you look at these point totals in the seasons where he had shortened years—

that's when he comes back—

or lockout, the big one against the Bruins, 2010, take him down inexplicably. 2010, 2011, he played 41 games and had 66 points. And then 2012, 2013, he played 36 games and had 56 points. So he was at the peak of his powers while not playing a lot of hockey, which is very rare for a guy who like was top of the league, best player in the league, I think.

Couple things, fellas, since we're talking to two guys sitting in Boston, you're, you're the right people to answer this question. You know, when I was growing up, guy was on your team, he was likely to still be on your team 5 or 8 years later if he was good. Now, because of free agency and then in college NIL stuff and everything else, people move around, and the jerseys are more expensive than they were when I was growing up. So you really can't afford a lot of mistakes when you're in the jersey buying game. That brings me to this: Boston jerseys, the 3 best and the 3 worst for a Boston sports fan to own right now. So let's start with you, Pete. What's the best jersey you can— you can own?

And you can ask me questions if you want, but I say let your mind run free.

The right choice is whatever the man in the mirror is telling you is the right choice here.

Personally speaking, I own one Bruins jersey that currently is like applicable to this team.

Patrice?

No, it is Morgan Geekie. I have a Morgan Geekie jersey because I think that Morgan Geekie's story is incredible. I was a day one Morgan Geekie believer when the Bruins signed him, so I feel very hitched to that wagon. So it's like there's a personal connection there. David Pastrnak though is the— like, he is a Mount Rushmore Boston Bruin, which is a massive accomplishment given the history of that team and some of the players. I absolutely think so. I think that he is the most— he's arguably the most talented forward that has ever played for the Bruins.

Yikes.

I think that he'll— yeah, he'll hold basically every offensive record for the Bruins by the time that he's done here. And like, I think that he's just a ridiculously cool person. Very, uh, very high up there on the list of jerseys that to be owned right now for Boston sports.

Well, among the legends, Boston does real well compared to all the other sports towns. Like the the very high-end greats, your icons, are pretty good. DJ, obviously a black and gold 4 would look nice walking around Boston, a 12 with the Pat Patriot. But that's what I wanted to ask you about. Obviously the Brady one makes sense, except if you're doing it right— I know he wore the Pat Patriot red, but that's not really Tom Brady. That's not the getup he wore.

Is that the—

do you want to give up fashion in the name of the high end of the football team, namely Pat Patriot or Flying Elvis over Pat Patriot.

So are you asking like, like current athletes or just all-time?

Anywhere you want, friend.

I just said anywhere you want.

That changes my—

I just want to submit one that hasn't been said, and I think it'll be high on your list as well. Possibly the best jersey to have in Boston. When you just asked that question, I started taking notes. First thing I wrote down, Pedro. Yeah, a Pedro Martinez Red Sox jersey. And I mean, I've got one. I've got a Manny Red Sox jersey that I love. I have to— I haven't kept up with— I think there may be some, like, off-the-field stuff. I can't remember if we like Manny anymore or not.

So, like, Manny.

Yeah, I know we love Pedro.

Yeah.

And Pedro was like as box office as it got. On the Brady thing. It's an interesting point you bring up because we discuss jerseys on our show a lot. And what is very important to us, and I'm borrowing a term from the great Greg Turkington, is that the jerseys be screen seen. It needs to be something that you could see that player wearing. So for example, the San Jose Sharks sent Pete a Kiefer Sherwood jersey this year and we got it, opened it up and saw that it was an Adidas jersey. Thank you. No, thank you, San Jose Sharks.

Right.

Kiefer Sherwood has only been on the team when Fanatics has made the jerseys. I will hang up over there.

I have a David Ortiz yellow Boston Marathon jersey, which he never wore, so that would not be screensaver.

I don't like— I bet people, people can call me a curmudgeon too, but now I feel supported by you.

I hate it. I think the first one I saw was the updated UNC basketball uniforms.

But with the Jordan 20s, no, he never wore that.

You got behavior, didn't wear it.

The only reason I excuse it for myself for the David Ortiz marathon jersey is because David Ortiz was such an influential character in the marathon element of Boston and the Red Sox. So I think that that one has some sort of indirect tie, but it's not screen seen. So we would have to kind of write it off.

I think there's something nice if you are— if as you guys have, like, all you've ever known is Patriots greatness in your life. Well, not the last few years until—

I'm a little older.

Fix that a little bit.

Um, my first Patriots jersey was a, uh, a Teddy Brewski— or no, it was, um, a Willie McGinnis. Oh, uh, like the royal blues. Like, I was in before that.

I had a blood cell. I had a blood cell.

That's okay. I would say if you go back even further, go Grogan '14. Yeah. And put the neck roll on to really make it sing.

And that you can do the red Pat Patriot.

Yeah. Then you can get away with that. So it comes down to 33 or 6, right?

I personally, I was actually just thinking yesterday, like, I don't have any Celtics jerseys. If I was buying a Celtics jersey, I would buy a number 5 Kevin Garnett. Like, Kevin Garnett is so fucking— yeah, to me, cool dude. Like, just intense as hell. Just fits the kind of athlete that I love. And the Celtics wouldn't have won their championships without Kevin Garnett in the Big Three era. He was the most important piece of that.

I've wanted the—

possible—

they did like an Italian jersey. Do you remember that? No, it was a Celtics jersey. And but the numbers were just like an Italian flag. And it's so ugly, but it's so cool. And I've wanted a Kevin Garnett Italian jersey for some reason. But yeah, if you're going to get a Celtics jersey, I think that until Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown came along, Kevin Garnett was the best Celtic of my and Pete's lifetime. It's not Paul Pierce, it's Kevin Garnett. So you get the Kevin Garnett jersey, or I mean, as classic a jersey as exists. I believe I did a— I wrote something a million years ago about, uh, basketball jerseys in rap music videos, and I believe the first recorded one was Everlast wearing a Larry Bird jersey in the Jump Around video, House of Pain. So like, that is iconic. There's history beyond basketball there.

I like it.

And by the way, we have to put our heads together at another time on this because I've also put the list together of the most obscure sports jerseys to appear in movie history.

And oh, hell yes, that's a pretty beefy list.

Drake Maye though, where does he factor in? By the way, you agree as Patriots supporters he was hurt and they just didn't want to say it, right?

Yes, better have been.

I know, uh, the— my only—

why it's such a—

I mean, I understand why the league and why the Patriots don't really want to make a big deal about it. Neither side benefits from, from the, the murkiness of the, um, injury report running up to that. But he, he had a bad shoulder and they didn't want to talk about it. And like I say, it diminishes the Super Bowl to talk about it if you're the broadcast partner. So everybody was like, let's just pretend this isn't going on. But I mean, I'm surprised that the last couple of few months haven't been devoted to like, that would have gone differently if May had been healthy.

Want to know my big issue with Drake Majors? He's at this point in time is that you have to wait until you walk past someone wearing a Patriots number 10 jersey to see who's on the back before you decide whether it's cool or not, because they wore the same uniforms and Mac Jones wore number 10. So like, if I were walking, I'd be like, hey, go Drake May, and I walked past someone, turned around, they were wearing a Mac Jones jersey, I'd be like, oh, that fucking loser. Well, Mac Jones jerseys, that is, you're right, best or the worst jersey.

And I even get it sometimes, sometimes around Boston I'll see that 11 and I'm like, nice pick.

Oh, Kyrie.

Even though like I had a Kyrie jersey, but like Randy Moss jersey and then walking past him and be like, oh, that's an Aaron Hernandez, right?

See, ooh, I don't know about this guy.

I had an '81 Patriots jersey and it was not Aaron Hernandez, not to brag. It also was not Randy Moss. Can you guess who it was? Not to put you on the spot, but it was before either of those two players, number 81 on the New England Patriots.

In blue, so it wasn't Russ Francis.

No, it was like a, like a modern Patriots jersey. I got this probably in 2003 when this player was a rookie, I believe.

Number 81. I don't know, go ahead. Oh, uh, the, uh, the Auburn receiver. Uh, go ahead.

Bethel Johnson. Oh wow. Who I believe was— I think I— where did Bethel Johnson go? Temple, TCU, but Bethel Johnson, who basically was a guy, someone that— Texas A&M, sorry. Basically is the type of player that like Al Davis would have drafted first overall because he just ran fast. And I was like, yep, getting that one.

Incredible Madden player. Incredible Madden player because you could just run straight up and he would score every time.

Dude, before Madden made it so you couldn't just put fast people at quarterback. Madden was so fun where you would put Champ Bailey at quarterback and just torment whoever you were playing against.

Because you're the hockey guys and I have to make the statement that NHL '94 is superior to any edition of Madden.

Oh, I mean, the NHL series used to be incredible.

'93, '94, the one-timer.

Yeah, the one-timer was where it was at. I forget what year it was when they, when they put '93, '94. Either way. Give me that. I think it was the '93 one with the Penguins. There's not a human being on, on the planet Earth that could defeat me if I had that, that Penguins team.

Is that what they were playing? Which game were they playing in Swingers?

Uh, that was either '94 or '95.

'94, '95, but the fighting and they could bleed on the ice and all of that. I can't remember which one that was. So, okay, so that's a fascinating thing. So Drake May, good, and the worst one you could possibly have is Mac Jones. The weight of taking over for the GOAT proved to be too much for Mac. Also, everybody, like all quarterbacks, their pads do this, but for some reason Mac Jones has the worst of it when he's in his uniform. He has those pad tits, you know?

Yeah, yeah, it's the— it's like a pants tent for your upper body.

Yes, very strange. So okay, uh, to wrap that up then, what are, what are the other 1 or 2 or 3 worst?

Oh, this is, this is the best. So this is my— this would be my number 1. It is my number 1 Bruins jersey of all time. '77 Ray Bourque in the— oh, in the '90s style. It is the best.

That is—

I don't know if I'd rather have the Espo 7 or that.

That's interesting.

You know what my white whale is? And I promise we will get back to the, the bad jerseys. But my white whale, and I have begun learning how to sew— I, a month ago I would have told you I've learned how to sew, but I've hit a rut and I'm just getting worse at sewing. But I want to learn how to— I'm learning how to sew so I can make my kind of white whale jerseys. My white whale jersey is a 2003, I believe, Boston Bruins. This does have a Pittsburgh connection for you. He only played from the deadline to the end of the first round where they lost summarily to the Montreal Canadiens. Number 55, Sergei Gonchar.

Oh, sweet.

By the way, Gonchar Bruins jersey is my white whale.

A white whale would be Ron Francis, right? Or Ulf Samuelsson or Kevin Deneen.

No, it'd be Matvey Michkov.

Oh, hey now, that's a fat joke. That's— I didn't know Rick Tockett stopped by. We do a speed run every year where we just list everything that happened in the NHL season and try to make it as funny as possible. And I think one of our only Flyers notes— and look, I know you're a Penguins guy, but the Flyers being in the playoffs absolutely rocks to us. But I think the only things we said about the Flyers were the broadcaster asked for a blowjob on the air accidentally, and that Matvey Michkov got fat-shamed by Rick Tocchet every time Rick Tocchet spoke. And there are videos.

I did. Speaking of videos, I saw Matvey Michkov's first successful shootout attempt posted on Twitter yesterday. And the caption was like, turn up the volume. And as he skates by the opponent's bench, you can hear someone yell, you fat bleep, as he skated past the bench.

So there you go.

Oh, I can't wait for it.

Bleep just lit you up.

Here are the two things with that. I don't want to hold you guys up much longer.

No, we're extending this, so don't feel bad.

Pens-Flyers to me, kind of, sort of. Game 1 is especially important as hot as the Flyers are. I think if you can, you can cool them off a little bit with a Saturday night win and go from there. Otherwise, they might, you know, if they get on, if they can continue this heater, I'll become concerned. To me, it comes down to, I know a lot of people talk about either side, who they have between the pipes. How good is Dan Vladar at this point though?

Dan Vladar has been awesome. And credit to us for getting this long into the conversation without bringing up another favorite player of ours, Stuart Skinner. I think that you are in wonderful hands. F the haters.

I kind of talked myself into it.

Hell yeah, you should. Maybe one of the best stories in the league this season if he, if he goes on a run.

I mean, the overall numbers in the playoffs don't jump off the page, but if you watch him, then you know he is either unplayable and he's lost his job in the last two postseasons, or he is— fact, not opinion— the best goalie on the planet and like doing things that you didn't know goalies could do in the playoffs. Like again, really not hyperbole. Like he has ruined the Dallas Stars' lives for 2 years in a row and he is a primary reason as to why the Dallas Stars have not reached the Stanley Cup Final in the last 2 years. So I'm not kidding. Like you are in good hands. You could be in bad hands, but that's the Stu Skinner experience. I wish nothing but the best for him. And I love how Penguins fans are embracing him. God bless. It was a bumpy ride in Edmonton. Expectations were high. He was the homegrown kid. He was a relatively high draft pick. He was a top prospect. They rushed him. I hope nothing but the best for him. But Vladar rocks too.

Speaking of Bruins draft picks, one of the funniest possible outcomes of the Stanley Cup playoffs would be the Pittsburgh Penguins and Stuart Skinner beating the Edmonton Oilers in the final.

Delicious. Let's get there. I think that the road ends for them unless somebody— unless the Sens can do some dirty work against the Canes in round 1. I think that reasonably, that's the matchup in the entire Wales that the Pens wouldn't be able to survive. I don't think they could win.

We're not reasonable here, though.

Just dream it.

Believe it.

I know.

I'd love it. I just— I can't see that. And as far as that goes, last question for you. All the talk all season, the three-headed monster. In one division in the Campbell Conference. But of late, it seems to me that it's not the Avs or anyone else. The Canes might be the best team in the league.

Yes, the Canes are. I think that we never— I certainly never sold any shares and I've tried to buy a few over the course of the year. I don't think that you could catch us at any point sleeping on them, although I think they can win the Cup. That's, that's what I'll say. And I said at the beginning of the year, and I said I think that we're going— we're just used to the Canes always being there, so we're not— people aren't going to invest a lot of time in them. But like, do not lose sight of with the Ehlers addition, with what Busse's been able to do, and like, they are deeper and better than they've been in years. Don't love them in goal as usual, but, uh, Pete, that's kind of the story. But But if Busse can be the guy, then that's a cup winner.

He hasn't been. Here's my problem with the Canes. Like, I believe in them as a, as a good team and as a really, really good unit. Oftentimes during the course of a playoff run, you need the, the player, the roster and the system to allow individuals to take over games and win you games. And the Carolina Hurricanes do not play a system and do not have a roster where one player is going to rise to the top and steal you games.

And you know what?

That's typically when they run out of luck there.

They also have a perfect storm going against them. One, there is their own history that has worked against them and is surely in their heads. And then on top of it, they're still the team that's supposed to do it in the Wales Conference this year. Certainly in the first couple of rounds, they're not supposed to be tested here. And so there's the added weight of being the team that's expected to do it. That, that puts pressure on you. And so I do think that's the rest of the conference's chance against the Canes. I do think the Canes survive this one. I just, I hope it's not the Lightning again. It's enough with the Lightning. Go away already. And Duroff and all the rest of you.

Sorry, just to make this about the Florida Panthers for a second here. The Canes have so much—

I was thinking about so much added pressure to do it this year.

Same with the Lightning. The Lightning have a lot of pressure to do it this year. Because neither team has to go through the Florida Panthers at any time in these playoffs. And so if you're the Canes, who have gotten swept— well, swept and then in 5 by the Panthers in the last 2 times they faced them in the Eastern Conference Final— like, it feels like if you don't do it this year, when are you going to do it?

Well, right.

I think, fellas, that it does go— this, you know, the Canes have an immense amount of pressure on them to get it done this year, but The Stars do too, and so do the Oilers, obviously, and the Avs to some extent, given the run that they've been on for multiple years here. It's getting to be, if they don't get it done this year, being the best team all season long, it's going to start to take on a whiff of '90s Atlanta Braves kind of thing, right? Being always in the mix but rarely getting it done.

And then Morgan Wallen's going to write a bad song about them. I don't even know what that guy writes. I think he just writes down the N-word and that's it.

Look at this. I told DJ when I reached out this week, let's just— we'll do 20 minutes. I know you guys are going to Buffalo, so I don't want to hold you up. And I feel like we could do another half hour easy, but we have to wrap the show up, so I have to let you guys go. So go be safe, have a great time. I know the time will be gay up there in Buffalo. Can't wait to hear your report on the best wings in town. All the rest of it. Um, I think the Bruins have a chance though. I think I'm real interested to see. I, I, there are not very many series that I have very little interest in watching here. They all seem juicy.

Yeah, I, you— I'm not going to push back against you by any means, but I am— I'm not going to allow anybody to convince me to have expectations either.

I get it.

And I always say about about the NHL, that for all the talk about vet savvy and all that, I'll always take the young legs. Give me young skill over the, like, he's been through the wars. Like, all right, uh, let's not overstate things, everybody. But that said, we've never seen the Sabers in this spot, and so until we see them in that spot, I think that the Bruins, who are— who have been around for a minute, um, have a chance of, uh, of taking them out here. Anyway, enjoy it, boys. Thanks so much for the time.

Let's do it again sooner rather than later, shall we?

Yes, please. You're the best. We love you, man.

You're the best. Keep, keep the great show going there. What Chaos, 4 days a week, Monday through Thursday. This is the time to be jumping in with Blackburn and Bean all throughout the next couple of months. Thanks, fellas.

Thank you.

All right, there they go. And here we go to the next time I will come up for air. Well, actually, I'll come up with, with the Lebatard gang on Friday morning. Make sure you're checking that out every Friday. I'm in there with Zazz and Mike Ryan and the rest of the crew.

But then on the other side of the weekend, I will appear on the banks of the Three Rivers, the prodigal son Damashek walking across one of those rivers, probably the Monongahela is the one I'm going to choose there.

We will be at McFadden's, like I say, on draft night Thursday. Be on the lookout for me and Lucy there.

And until then or otherwise, thanks so much, my fellow Football Americans.

It's been a thin slice of heaven.