Transcript of Is Denny Hamlin The Best Story In Sports? | Hour 1 New

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Can I offer an alternate explanation? Wemby is so tall that if he were to set a regular screen, he's slapping me. Wow. He's slapping me. Meat intimate he's slapping meat against people left right you feel me? He's slapping meet dangling— He's flappin' Meat! Oohh... —he's slappin' Eat Meats agains't peeples lef'n right ya feelin'? "HE'S GOT HUGE DUNK!" Wow... " " "...HE'S GOT HUGE JUNK!!" Sexy!!! ...HE'S GOT HUGE JUNK IT JUST FILLS OUT EVERYWHERE!!!! HE'S GOT HUGE JUNKS SLAPPIN' MEATS AGAINS'T PEOPLES LEFT AND RIGHT YA FEEL MEE?? I lovin' it man! Hahaha lolololo!

I like that.

This is the Dan Levitan Show with the Stugatz Podcast.

This episode of the Dan Levitan Show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Thank you to everybody who sent us photos of Amin with some breakfast on his face during the show yesterday. It was on his lip. We will put it up here., as video. It's, it's fairly disgusting. I'm surprised no one said anything to him. I'm pretty sure that's some egg from the, uh, the giant bagel. He made a giant bagel in the morning and then came running in here and, uh, didn't understand me when I was saying that statistically the Knicks were better with, uh, Brunson off the floor against the Spurs than on the floor. Didn't understand simple math, didn't understand simple hygiene. I, I can't look at it anymore.

Like, it's, it's It's a vomit.

What do you think, Greg Cody, is the biggest story in sports right now? You have to choose from all of the stories, all of the sports, because we are obsessing with hockey and, you know, basketball. But the best story— and I'm not going to even say the biggest story— the best story where you're like, that is the thing that everyone should be following because it has all of the elements in sports that you want whenever it is you're covering sports? Because Wembley right now is the center of everything. But I don't think that's the best story in sports.

I mean, for me, maybe I'm prejudiced here. For me, the best is the biggest. The World Cup beginning, the quadrennial World Cup beginning is not just the biggest event in sports right now. It's the biggest event in the world when you consider the entire globe being passionately interested. I mean, in, in Any country that's among the 48 in the World Cup, their first match is the way we think of a Super Bowl.

A fine choice. What would you nominate?

The best story is the potential for Victor Wembenyama to be the biggest villain in the history of New York basketball.

The Wemby story is a fascinating one because people are now turning on him. I wonder just generally if it's even possible these days to just be popular, like how long that will last for everyone in sport, anyone in sports. Like, maybe you can do it in, in the arts where you're just appearing occasionally. But if you're appearing in competitive settings, like, I think it's almost impossible for anyone to have a sustained run of "Isn't That Sweet." Like, forget about the Steph Currys of the world. We tried to ruin that one too at various times going through his family and stuff. But like, it's going to be really hard for anybody to skate. And Wemby playing competitive games is already like— New York is so pissed off at him. So pissed off, wondering whether he should get a flagrant. Like, he's on the COVID of the New York Post as, as villain because it's not just that he's playing a little dirty, it's you threw down their little guy. Like, it's, it's the optics of that.

And Jalen Brunson could be a great nominee for the best individual story in sports right now. Overlooked, small in stature, no real precedent for a team winning with him. Not maybe not since Isaiah Thomas. Have we seen someone this small do that? There are great redemption stories going on in sports. Mitch Marner turning the narrative around for him. That's a good one. There's a great story with Ohtani and just his droning excellence, it seems. I don't know how we ever get used to that. Maia Kwinska in the French Open going from a qualifier all the way to the final. That's amazing. But to me, the best story in sports comes from NASCAR. And don't roll your eyes at this because I will tell you a story about the human spirit. Denny Hamlin is regarded like the Buffalo Bills. A guy that always finds a way to lose the championship. He is by far the greatest Cup Series driver to never win a Cup Series championship. He just tied Kyle Busch for 63 Cup Series wins. He is presently at 45 years old racing the best of his career. This is an age where a lot of drivers fall off, but just the story of him chasing that elusive championship in the heartbreaking fashion that he lost it through none of his own doing, just hard luck, a bad caution that allowed other people to get back into a race that he was pulling away from.

The story about his father who got him into the sport, who was terminally ill at the time, not being able to watch his son win that championship, and then shortly thereafter passing away in a house fire that also severely injured his mother, critically injured his mother. And the story of Denny Hamlin going through the rubble of this home of his parents, falling, re-injuring shoulder. And also, just the triumph in this season alone— NASCAR has had a lot of tragic passings this season. A lot of people, starting with Greg Biffle passing away in a tragic airplane accident that took his entire family, through all sorts of other personalities that have been woven into the sport. And then Kyle Busch, a seismic loss in that sport. Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch were actually teammates together for Joe Gibbs Racing, and the longest-tenured teammates in the history of NASCAR. They had a little bit of a rivalry this season. Denny was kind of talking trash. He's He's always brash, and what makes him such a great personality is he's completely honest, and he's like, Kyle just doesn't have it with these next-gen cars. He doesn't know how to get the speed out of this.

So they went back and forth a little bit, but they had respect for one another, they had love for one another. And this is what happened after Denny once again, second straight week, he goes from first to last to first. He is just a dominant race car driver right now. It seems like it has to be his year. He wins this most recent NASCAR race at Michigan, and his jackman has a presence of mind to get a Kyle Busch flag and run it over to Denny Hamlin. And we have this iconic celebration of Denny Hamlin, uh, burning out, doing donuts, uh, near the, uh, the finish line with Kyle Busch's 18, because when he was with the M&M's car, he drove number 18, but he was driving number 8 here. So you have it in the style of both those numbers, and you have that flag, that banner hanging out the window as Denny is celebrating. He carried that flag all the way to grab the checkered flag. Clearly emotional. If you're rooting for one thing in sports this season, it's for Denny Hamlin to finally win that championship and have that moment because he has gone through so much.

He has had such tough luck. And this is, for my money, the best story in sports.

For the last 3 years, Mike has felt like he is suffering next to Denny Hamlin, who was getting sort of a comical, always losing reputation when he's obviously great at what he does. But when you just described what what we've talked about before, which is you lose your father, your mother is critically injured, you are rehabbing so you can be less of a loser because everyone says you're a loser even though you're great at what you do, but you don't win. And as you're rehabbing and getting better, you fall in the rubble and reinjure your shoulder. Do you think when he lands, uh, does he laugh or cry? I'm dead serious about this.

I, I think he cries. He thought about retiring. The loss in Phoenix was so devastating, so not his fault. He had multiple-second leads on the rest of the field. This caution allows other, uh, other drivers to get a tire advantage on him. Kyle Larson ends up winning the Cup Series. It was so devastating. You saw his soul leave his body with that loss. He thought about retiring. He's done plenty of interviews since saying, yeah, I thought about hanging them up then because that was just too much for me to take. That was one loss that was that far and away worse than the others? And he's had some bad ones.

The reason that I asked the question that I did is because a friend of mine, a friend of mine actually had a funny response because he couldn't believe what was happening in my life at the time when complication after complication with my brother, and then I'm coming out of the hospital as me and this friend of ours are trying to save my brother in various ways, and it's just turned my life upside down and We come to find that I'm leaving the hospital because my dad's been hanging from a balcony and firefighters found him, and it was just like a total chaos as I'm leaving the hospital learning that my father was almost, you know, almost fell to his death. And I'm just laughing into the phone as I'm FaceTiming him because the number of things going wrong are so wrong that I, I, I'm so past the tears that once you're laying on your shoulder in the rubble of what used to be your life with your parents, one of them dead and the other one critically injured, and then your identity feeling like it's dying because you also reinjure yourself because it's hard to rehab from an injury.

I really do wonder if you're— when you're on the floor there, if you're thinking you're cursed, if you're thinking that that day will never come and that people will never understand what you climbed over to get to that day. Mike's mentioned the human spirit a few times in the last few days. Like, these are the things that bond you to sports. When we were talking about newspaper writing and getting to ask questions of the people that normally people don't get to ask, the things that bond people to the emotion business, that pay so much for us to talk about it and write about it and just be adjacent to it, is the human connection and fluency of language in any of these stories that run through grief to victory, through desperation and everything else. And when he's talking in that sport, after that sport is in mourning because it just lost a driver, for this driver who's been suffering at just the sport hand at life to come in and do these things. If it were happening in another sport, people would know it's the best story in sports.

I didn't even mention his lawsuit against NASCAR. He co-owns a racing team with Michael Jordan that employs Bubba Wallace and Tyler Reddick, and he was trying to absolutely shake up the sport when it came to the charters. The France family dominates that sport, and to win in court, which is something that he did through a settlement to have that going on throughout all of last season, have it come to a head this offseason while all the other personal stuff— these legal battles take so much out of you. And then he starts the season, starts the season a little slow, but now he is second in the cup standings, second to Tyler Reddick, who races for a team he owns.

Why weren't you wearing the gearhead during that? I thought that—

because I think that this story transcends what, just a niche segment. What I, I think if you're familiar with the stories and the personalities, NASCAR is as engaging to its fans as any sport. I understand maybe left turns are a little monotonous. Casually follow this story because Denny Hamlin is worth rooting for. Summer always hits different once the big game starts stacking up. Now you've got finals games on every other night. Baseball's rolling all week, racing on the weekends, and suddenly everybody's looking for an excuse to get together. The other night, a buddy texted me, we've got the game on, come through. I figured I'd stop by for maybe an hour. That was optimistic. Next thing you know, everybody's locked into the game and we're all part of the coaching staff. Somebody's yelling at the ref, somebody else is suddenly an expert on pitch strategy, and nobody's even pretending they're leaving early anymore. It's one of those nights where you take a sip of Miller Lite, look around, and realize, yeah, this is exactly what summer is supposed to be. That's why Miller Lite is always part of these nights for me. It's clean, refreshing, Easy to drink when it's hot outside and perfect for long nights hanging with friends, watching games.

An all-American summer starts with an all-American beer. Miller Lite. Go to MillerLite.com/Dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Hello, listeners. I know you know this, but the cup. Yeah, it's taken over the US and only DraftKings Sports has you fully covered. The DraftKings Sports app is now available in all 50 states, giving you access to every market and keeping you in on the excitement at the speed of sports. Sweat all the matches you love, all in one place with one app. New DraftKings customers sign up with code DAN, spend $5, and get $200 in rewards within 21 days. That's code DAN. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Bet with DK Sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, 1-800-MY-RESET. New York, call 877-8-HOPEN-Y or text HOPEN-Y. Connecticut, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas, bet text pass-through may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Void in Ontario. Event contract trading with DraftKings predictions involves risk of loss. Sportsbook bonus bets expire in 7 days. $50 in predictions dollars issued weekly for 3 weeks expire in 1 year. Redeem 1 non-withdrawable reward. Availability varies. Predictions offer void New York. Ends June 28th. Terms at dkng.co/audio. Dan Levitard.

This is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes. Stugatz.

Everybody, this is the quickest it goes. Yeah. This is the Dan Levitard Show with Stugatz.

Getting to tonight's game in New York. New York. There are a handful of things I want to ask you guys and talk about here. Not surprisingly, the Stephen A. Donald Trump thing has gotten dumber and dumber. I'll get to that in a second because it sort of dominated the conversation the last couple of days in a way that is bothersome to me and offensive, but we'll get to that in just a second. Describing and talking about the game itself though, over the last couple of days, I want to make this clear, I am not criticizing Jalen Brunson. I want to ask a question of the group here. When I say— because I know people get obsessed with efficiencies and winning is the only thing that matters— so you guys are telling me, like you do with the quarterback position, hey, he won, therefore he's playing great. And he has done things in the fourth quarter. But when I tell you more turnovers than assists, when I tell you in terms of how they have to play, when I tell you shooting efficiency way down, shooting a ton, and I tell you this number, whatever it was, I think 82 points on 81 shots, which any defense in the world will take from any star player.

Like, if you tell me their star player is going to have to take a shot per point, every defense in the league will sign up for that before the game has started. And so while I'm not criticizing Jalen Brunson, I'm asking you guys, what does he have to do for you guys to think he played poorly? Because the reason someone this size has not won is because he's always going to go 11 for 33. He'll get the 33 shots. Iverson will get the 33 shots. Any of them can do that. Like, literally anyone like Brunson who's ever played, no matter his size, can get the 33 shots if I give him the usage rate. But his job is to be efficient against this defense. And while I'm not criticizing him, I'm asking you, what would it have to look like for you guys to criticize him? Because there's no circumstance in which he's getting 6 shots. Like, he's gonna take a bunch of shots.

Well, statistically, you know, the only game that they've lost so far this series was also actually his best statistical game. Like, He shot the best in Game 3 that he has the entire series. He was efficient from 3. He rebounded. He got a few assists as well, and he scored a series-high in Game 3. So I guess like if it was his worst game of the series and they also lost, yeah, we'd probably start to get some of that criticism. But, you know, he, he wasn't bad in Game 3.

The only time I'll criticize Jalen Brunson is when he doesn't show up late in the 4th quarter because he's game in, game out. Situation in, situation out, he always shows up and makes huge plays with 2 minutes or less. And like, if he doesn't do that, that's when I'll be like, ooh, they need you there more than anywhere. But in Game 2, he missed that shot. Like, he missed it. He missed the big shot late and got lucky that Wemby turned the ball over, because if not, they lose that game.

And he missed the shot late after playing poorly. But I just— I want to examine, Greg, I want to get your thoughts on this here, because in narrative building, as people gather around the television and this thing keeps climbing, New York goes a little crazier, more and more noise about this everywhere. Wemby viewed as a dirty player. New York now hates him. He has 4 games here for all of this to escalate into a real mushroom cloud. But at the center of it for New York is the tiny guy. Wemby just physically bullied him. A lot of people saying that needs to be a flagrant one because he just threw him on the ground, and when Jalen Brunson got up, he's staring at Wemby's navel. And Jalen Brunson, as the small player in this series, throughout basketball history, that loses. It just does. Because throughout basketball history, Jalen Brunson's size as the lead player does not get past Wemby. And the storylines in this series make me feel like there's no circumstance under which anyone's going to go after Brunson. None. Because, Tony, Jeremy just told you, well, he missed the last big one he took.

Like, we're going to start giving him credit only when he makes them, but he's going to be taking them all. Like, it's not going to be anybody but him taking them.

If they lose tonight they'll have lost both games at home, San Antonio takes back the home court advantage, and Brunson is bad this evening, you're gonna hear plenty of criticism.

But what's bad is what I'm asking you. What does bad look like?

What he looked like in Game 2. He was 7-of-25.

But he was that in Game 1 too! He was pretty— he shot pretty poor, just about that. When I tell you 1 point per shot, every team in the league would sign up for that defensively on any star on the other team.

Yes. If the Knicks lose this series after leading 2-0, the, the world will fall in on Brunson no matter what his stats are.

Yeah, it would be heavy. I don't, I don't agree. I think it would.

No, no. If they win the series, he will get optimum credit and nobody's going to measure the assists to, to turnover ratio.

You guys don't think I'm right when I say that for now he's gonna be immune Like, they're— this is a rare—

I don't agree. Nope, I don't agree.

You don't think it'll go to Karl-Anthony Towns? You don't think it'll go to Bridges? You don't think it'll go to Mike Brown and people won't notice, 'Oh, he was 6 for 20'?

I mean, I guess you could say the difference is Brunson is small and Ewing was large, but Ewing, 10 years into his career, was a massive deal in New York. They just went to the Finals the previous year in '94, and in '95 he misses the layup at the buzzer of Game 7.

They were killing it. Yeah, but he didn't already have the reputation of being a killer. Like, the reason this this guy is golden in New York is because of what Tony said. They trust him late, he's going to bail them out.

They trust it, they trust it, and they should. Until he doesn't.

Until he doesn't. He didn't last game again.

But he's measured over 7 games.

Yeah, they're still in control. Right. In a home game tonight, they, like, they're gonna be in an amazing position. But until they don't have that control anymore, and he's not playing well this series, and all of a sudden it feels like New York is gonna have an historic collapse, a collapse which has never happened in the history of the Finals. Up 2-0, both wins on the road. It's gonna start to get real heavy.

I wonder about this when we talk about collapse, uh, can you guys, uh, when I told you the other day the stat, Game 7s at home, the last, uh, 31 of them, uh, the record, uh, from the home team is 14-17. That's Game 7. That's the biggest advantage. It's supposed to be Game 7. I, I'm legitimately wondering how much home field— home court advantage matters at all in this sport anymore because of how how much we've changed it. New York was losing a bunch of games at home during the regular season. I'm asking you sincerely, because if this goes 7, it's not like I don't think New York can win, because the whole thing's been distorted. I don't believe in home court nearly as much as I used to.

You have the home court advantage of the OKC Thunder that is obviously talked about as the best, right? The fans are always loud, everything's always crazy, and Wemby had an incredible Game 1 there when they were rabid. Game 7, the same thing. Like, that's a better home-court advantage than the Knicks at Madison Square Garden, and he already went through all that.

I don't think so. I think, I think New York's the biggest advantage. I do. I think it's the biggest home-court advantage.

Didn't bother him at all. When I watched what the Spurs did at the end of Game 3, it is the single most impressive thing they have done this season, more than beating the Champions, I think, Game 7 on the road, because they had advantages against the Champions that they don't have here. In this series. And when that happened— young team loses 2 at home last 3 minutes. Wow, they're young. Good God, everybody's young. Everybody's 21, 22 years old. They've never been in these late-game situations. Here's your first 2 cracks at it. You fail both times. Woof, that stunk. Those 5 days, whatever that felt like. Here's Game 3, and here's all of New York on your head in the biggest game New York has played. Win it in the last 3 minutes. Everything is breathing on your neck where New York is waiting. Please, Castle, miss that 3. See what happens. Please, please, Darren Fox, miss, miss that mid-range jumper. See what happens in terms of how people start shrinking. Giants start shrinking because of the size of that game. I heard Jeremy Lin talking about this with Pablo last night. They did a YouTube Live, and it was really interesting to hear Jeremy Lin's perspective on when things get that big, you don't even know where you are, like the pressure of it and stuff.

You're The— when you're at the center of Madison Square Garden, expect something from you late in games, Jalen Brunson. Like, it— that's not thought, that's muscle memory and whatever you are in the crafting of things are moving really fast down here. And I'm taking no inventory of what anyone's thinking at home, what's on top of me, anything. It's just about how do I figure out this puzzle on this possession, because all their guys are long and fast and young, and I've been here a thousand times. The amount of pressure that the Spurs were under is a crash course in championship learning in the last 3 minutes of that game.

It balls a road win in the Finals I've ever seen. And not just going into the game how we felt— how, look, I don't know anything, alright? I've been wrong every game of the series. But how you felt going into that game, and then how did the Knicks, how did the Knicks not blow them out in the second half on the run that they finished the first half with?

You're up by 7 at the half.

And it was, they blitzed them at the end of the second quarter.

The Spurs come out, punch them in the face, you're like, they're gonna need to stay 15 ahead all game if they want to do this. The Knicks roar back before the end of the first half, have their best scoring half of the series.

The building was on fire at the end of the second quarter. It was almost like— I thought it was a bad thing actually that the Spurs went up the way that they did in Game 3. I think they led 9-nothing, they were up 12 at one point in the first half. Because what happens when San Antonio goes up big like that early on, the crowd with every basket by the Knicks is— they're anticipating, okay, is this the run? Is this the run? And so they're jacked up the entire first half because they were down big, waiting for the run. And then what happened at the end of the second quarter? How the hell did San Antonio come out in the third quarter the way they did?

I urge you to listen to Pablo with Jeremy Lin. They've got a relationship for 10 years, just to know what's to be at the center of that for 30 days. Like, the Knicks not losing a playoff game through, through the first day of the NFL Draft. The Mets and Yankees losing 37 games in the time between Knicks playoff playoff games. I understand after all of these years of suffering somehow how Knicks fans would delude themselves into thinking this was going to be easy. But it just got hard because of what the Spurs took at the end of Game 3, and they still have the better player. And when this series again tonight inflames, okay, because the first game in New York, uh, it looked like a riot on the street to me. The video that we were playing yesterday is what— I mean, it was just a fight, but it was a fight with enough people that— how many people does it take for a riot? What's the correct number on a riot too? Because I think it would be hyperbole to say what happened outside of Madison Square Garden was a riot, but it was 10 people throwing fists and a bus sign, right?

I'll just say a dozen.

Dozen feels like a riot. I think it takes 18 to be a riot.

The thing is, the riot has to be like against something else, right? It can't all the people be fighting against each other. They have to be fighting in unison against something else. What color is their skin?

I don't know, why is that relevant? Why do you have to bring race into everything? Well, there's a difference between a riot and an uprising, you know, two Americas, that sort of thing.

Or a peaceful protest. Uprising. Did you guys hear Kenny Smith call Josh Hart Jason Hart? Big win for Jeffries.

Must have been listening to our show. The doors were open. Barkley declared at halftime that the series was over. Zazz declared after Game 2 that the series was over.

No, I did it mid-Game 2. Mid-Game 2? Yeah, it was a 4-point Knicks lead at halftime. I tweeted out, series is over. Felt like they were up 30.

The winner tonight, the series is over.

It's not though, it's a best of 3. No, it's not.

Whoever wins tonight is guaranteed.

It hasn't been said until he says it. Alright, thank you guys. A rare must-win for both teams. Don Lebatard! You owe me everything! You owe me everything!

You have added 10 years to my career. Yes, I have! This man has!

Batman! Who the hell are you? Stugatz! I am! Who the hell are you?

You should be thanking me! Bullshit!

You're a rude young man! You're a fool!

You're a fool! I already called you a fool!

You're a fool right back!

You can't call me a fool! You're an idiot again!

It's a fool-off! You're an idiot twice! You're an idiot for dismissing how much I've helped you! This is the Dan Levatar Show with Stugatz! Walk me through, please, just what you guys think is the history of the need to declare a series over earlier than the next person. I, I just want to examine this for a second.

If you want to let everybody know you don't have to spend any more of your time, go to your chores.

I know, I know, but listen, listen to what— let's, let's examine determine for a moment what just happened here, okay? It is a universal accepted truth in the language of sports that it's a totally normal thing to see— this can't be something women do— that's a totally normal thing to announce something is over before it's over, but nobody usually dares to do it 1.5 games into a 7-game series. That's flagrant, and, uh, that quick to the trigger, even by the sports radio host's judgment. Like, you never do it at a restaurant after a bad app. You're like, this dinner's over.

I can't do it anymore. You don't do it during a movie either.

You don't do it in any walk of life. But I want to examine how strange it is that we've accepted this, that somebody comes in and just says by way of conversation connection point, this is over. I wanted you to know that beforehand. Even though what Greg just said is, if the Spurs win tonight and it's 2-2, the series is over. When, when Correct. No.

Yes, 100%. It's 100%. It's quantifiable. 100%.

Yes, it's over. It's not—

what do you mean it's quantifiable?

It's 2-2 all the moment. No way. You know what? The buttholes of the Knicks, you couldn't drive a 10-penny nail up there if they lose the game tonight. Or tomorrow night, whenever. Put that one on the list.

It's tonight. It's tonight, but you just gave us another catchphrase that we haven't used before. Uh, what is happening with the 10-penny nail?

Well, what is a 10-penny nail? When your sphincter contracts, it means—

No, I got the reference. What's the 10-penny nail? What is it? It's a large nail. Maybe under the table.

It's probably— it's not as thick as that. Okay.

You know, it's a nail. That helps. All right, audio audience, he just pulled out his penis.

It's blue.

What's wrong with me? There it goes.

Bad circulation. That's what they said about my newspaper.

Oh, what a great day. Oh, praise Jesus. The last outlaw. That's me, baby. Greg Cody has outlasted Dave Hyde, an eternal victory for all time. Congratulations to Dave Hyde for being laid off. Getting back to what it is that we're valuing in Armando. Gone. Jerry Luthor. Gone. Lavitar gone. Hyde gone. Ira, got my eye on you. Clock is ticking, buddy. The last outlaw. I want to talk to you guys. Mark Spencer gone. Shooting horses in the head. Can you guys get a picture of Clark Spencer, please? Because this is a funny joke to the people who know what Clark Spencer looks like, and it's, uh, it's uproariously funny. But the problem is only 14 people know what Clark Spencer looks like. I had no idea.

I had to Google it.

No, but those 14 people think it's really funny.

No, it is funny. But for famed horse rider Clark Spencer, a very kind man and a man who would never shoot a horse between the eyes, uh, to kill it because of how much he loves animals, also looks the part. And so when keep making him a horse killer. It's funny to 14 people, but I think the joke is too inside. Joke of sorrow. Gah! You think? Hahaha! Last how long?

Clark and I are actually working to get Hyde in our horse racing, uh, uh, uh, syndicate, whatever it's called.

Just to put him down. That's right. Glue factory for Dave Hyde. When Clark gets that close, he don't miss.

Tell you that much. Doesn't make it right.

Don't make it right. Who won? The Last Outlaw won!

Ah, there's Clark. Hey, my man! Definitely dyes his hair.

We don't tell him.

My equine partner.

You know what? Now that I've rethought my position, that is someone who would shoot a horse right between the eyes.

Sometimes the kindest thing you can do.

It's true, Tony got that right.

Thank you. Make it right. Put it on the poll @LebatardShow. Is shooting a horse between the eyes sometimes the kindest thing you can do? And also, I'm remiss in correcting you any catchphraseology because you are the master, but are you— Are you using Pedro Gomez is going to kill me if you—

Rest in peace, Pedro.

God rest his soul. Rest in power. Doesn't make it right, doesn't feel like you were using it right. I thought doesn't make it right was something that was used differently than you just used it. Are you just using phrases now willy-nilly that don't have any reference point to anything we're talking about?

Sometimes. Doesn't make it right. Not often, occasionally.

All right.

How's that for a non-committal answer?

Yeah, this and also not helpful as someone who's programming an audio and radio and video experience. Put a Lobo mint under your pillow, Dan. Dream big. Donald Trump and Stephen A. Smith continue to go back and forth, and Donald Trump in the middle of the night or this morning on Truth Social writes, uh, because now Stephen A. is a threat, because television personalities with a loud mouth who might be even moderately competent as a Republican would be a threat. He sees the threat because reality television and television in general rule the day. He says Stephen A. Smith is an arrogant fool, a low IQ individual. In other words, he's dumb as a "rock"— that's in quotes— "which you'd do if you were dumb as a rock." Like, there's no reason to put that in quotes. Uh, "and totally unqualified to ever think of running for high political office, or even low political office for that matter. He'd get annihilated in a debate by the most incompetent of politicians. Joe Biden's now-fabled performance would look great by comparison to anything that this loudmouth huckster has to offer, which isn't much. Within a few weeks, they'd laugh him out of politics." The thing that I wanted to I want to ask all of you is, do you find yourself at all dismayed as really important, harmful, dangerous things happen all over the world that the stupidity that wins the day is entertainment value nonsense that is neither journalistic nor presidential?

The confidence or arrogance in thinking it your right on a Disney platform to get to debate the president of the United States is such an absurd weird transmorphication, uh, transmorgification of what it is that we used to do for a living covering these people, that we've cheapened journalism, we've cheapened the presidency, we've cheapened all of these things so much that, um, this passes for the discourse of the day instead of Epstein or Iran, because whatever you can throw in the news stream that gets people talking is the currency of the day. Like, to what level of dismay? Am I taking all of this too seriously when I'm just looking at what's happening here between this? And I just think it's the most foolish, emptiest cotton candy way to handle anything real that's happening in our country that is dangerous. But that's the point.

Uh, these two combatants, uh, both have a cartoon quality, uh, and the discourse at each other versus each other suits them both. It gives Stephen A. Smith the optimum publicity to be in a beef with the president. It suits the president?

It definitely suits Stephen A.

It absolutely suits the president because now everybody's talking about this beef with Stephen A. Smith instead of talking about, well, are they still attacking Iran?

We can talk about all of those things. I'm just seeing all of the news stream eaten up by something that's this empty, and I find myself getting bothered by it because it's not leadership, it's not activism, it's not working on behalf of anything in the name name of protecting anything decent other than yourself.

Well, this feels like cotton candy, but when the heavy stuff hit the news stream, everybody just kind of went like, okay, there's nothing to see here, don't worry about it. So if the heavy stuff does that, imagine the cotton candy stuff now. I just checked out on it once. Stephen A. was begging Donald Trump to go on his podcast again. I'm like, all right, what is that? This is all dumb. It was an opportunity for— all right, let's see, he took a personal shot at you, let's see if you actually get into the game and you cut like a ridiculous promo and beg him to be on your podcast. You're ducking me.

It's But you would agree that this suits both sides, this little back and forth that distracts us from real stuff?

But it only suits both sides if the only way you're keeping score is, is something empty dominating the attention spans of the American people. Like, if that's the way that you're keeping score, okay, but how are we keeping score on this? Because it doesn't make either of them look smart or, or helpful in their jobs to, you know, protect the country in any way, whether you're protecting journalism or whether you're protecting affecting the country itself.

Obviously people in sports like us, we're aware of this, like it's distracting us, but I don't know, you think people who are just paying attention to the news, like regular people, who is the majority of the country, not like huge sports fans and people like us, you think they give a shit what the president's saying about Stephen A. Smith? I don't think so.

I think Stephen A. blew an opportunity to be legitimized, genuinely. He decided to be a clown with it, stand in front of an LED screen with music playing behind and, and just show you that there's not much below the surface there other than someone come on my podcast so I can get the clicks. He could have gotten into the game. Donald Trump offered him the opportunity with a direct shot, and instead it was just a cartoonish little thing that made me realize this is a very unserious situation, all of it surrounding Stephen A. and politics. Stephen A. looked scared in doing that. In the way that he normally goes after people, he went harder after Jalen Brown like a couple of weeks ago than he went after Donald Trump. And it's all entertainment. Like, that's all you need.

Oh, but I think you've got it wrong here, Mike, and you underestimate him on how the masses can be intoxicated by the flash paper. Like, it's how Trump got to be president. Like, don't underestimate—

Right, but it came off whack. To you? I think to many people, like even the intended audience, the thing came off like a whack bit that just—

No. It didn't work. No, but okay, and it's as if the voting were now. The voting is not now. The way that you get into the attention stream is you get in the president's mouth, you feud with the president, you get more and more currency. Just—

He passed on that. He passed on feuding. He asked him to go on his podcast. That was actually an opportunity with what Donald Trump afforded him. It was an opportunity genuinely to walk through a legitimate threshold into the national conversation, challenging him on stuff. If he wants to be taken seriously as this political figure, that was your show. Shot, and instead you wanted to be a wrestler with it.

But how is it that you get to decide this? Because I'm saying that works with some people. It's what Trump is still doing. Yeah, no, we're definitely a dumb nation. Yes. Trump is still doing low IQ individual Sleepy Joe. Like, that works. Like, it's worked with the television personality who could just blow a blue mist in your face and make you dumber.

Stephen A.'s also just poking and prodding, waiting for Trump to overreact. He can keep himself in this conversation. Well, but Trump doesn't work for them. He doesn't have to pick a side. But what's his audience? Like, Stephen A. Everybody. But what is Stephen— who is Stephen A. trying to appeal to? Who? Because that doesn't fly with the people that are anti-Trump. It's just bogus. It's just self-inflating.