Transcript of Hour 2: The Justin Tucker Allegations

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This is the Dan Levatore Show with the Stugats podcast.

The Ravens have finally said something here. General Manager Eric Dacosta is calling the allegations against Justin Tucker concerning. It has taken a minute to see what would happen here. I've been a little confused that Justin Tucker at the moment is somebody who is working freely with some of the reporting that Julie Sharper, Justin Fenton, and Brenna Smith have done for the Baltimore banner here. Justin Tucker is the Ravens kicker that was until recently the most accurate kicker in League history. He is currently facing allegations from 16 massage therapists across eight spas and wellness centers in the Baltimore area, two of which said that they banned him. The reporters now are on with us. They've been doing this reporting at the Baltimore Banner for a while here. So let's start here with Julie. Can you just tell me, Julie, and thank you for joining us, and thank you for the work that you've been doing. Can you take us on the journey of where it is and how it is this story started?

Sure. So people say a lot that the first six massage therapists came forward, but it was really a matter of us finding them. It all started with Justin Fenton, our colleague, getting a tip from a friend who had happened to overhear at two different environments, people talking about these rumors about Justin Tucker. We did a quick search of X and found that there were several posts about this going back a few years, which was intriguing. I messaged one of the people who had put up one of those posts and was surprised when that person messaged me right back and said, Yeah, someone I went to high school with had posted about this on Facebook a few years ago. I asked him to send me screenshots, and he did. I contacted that woman, and she wound up being the first massage therapist that we spoke to. We later put up a post in a group for Marilyn Massage therapists. And through that post, we learned of many others who knew about these allegations second-hand. They were able to give us the locations of spas. They were able to give us names of people that they had heard about.

And we were able to do additional reporting that led us to the first six massage therapists who said that they had had these experiences with Justin Tucker. Also in that first story, we were able to confirm that two spas in the area had banned him. Once that first story came out, our reporting led us to other massage therapists who had similar encounters that they reported. Also, at that point, others started coming forward and saying that they, too, had had these experiences with Tucker.

So, Brenda, this is not folks seeking you out necessarily. There is reporting that needs to be done here in order to make a difficult thing like this happen. It's journalism, but it's also activism to protect environments and strengthen numbers, correct?

I think how we look at this is that when you have such serious allegations, it's something that's going to take a lot of vetting and a lot of reporting to verify. What we did as a team is each time we would have a woman who felt comfortable discussing her allegations with us, we would then go and corroborate her story with the spa owners, with coworkers she worked with at the time, with family members or partners from the time, to be able to make sure that all the details were aligned learning. And so I think that where our role is as journalists from being able to have such confirmation of that, it's not necessarily about activism for us. It's a line that is not exactly where journalists walk. What it is, is about being able to help vulnerable people tell their stories and be able to tell that in the most accurate and fair way possible. And I think that's really what our focus on in the story. We're not here to editorialize. We're not here to put our own narrative on it. It's really about making sure we're telling the people who are brave enough to talk to us what they're saying in the most accurate and truthful way possible.

Julie, to that extent. Justin Tucker, because of the nature of the amount of vetting that has to be done on all of this, Justin Tucker is categorically denying all of this. But it seems where there are this many women with this many similar details, it almost seems impossible to believe that this can be categorically denied?

Well, we've had two spa owners confirm to us that they had banned Justin Tucker from their establishment. We had other spa owners corroborate accounts of their employees. And as Brenan was saying, we spoke to these 16 women, and we corroborated all of their accounts with other people who they had worked with at the time, with colleagues, with friends. People had text messages going back years, social media posts. One of the individuals had actually contacted the Baltimore Sun about this many years ago. An editor here who used to be at the Baltimore Sun remembered that person contacting a Sun reporter and sharing a similar account. There is a lot documentation going back years, and there's a lot of corroboration of these accounts.

Going back to the documentation going back years, I think that includes some of these Twitter allegations that have been out there, especially ones from the time of the allegations. Does that lead you to believe that it's difficult to imagine the Ravens really had no idea about any of this before the report came out?

That would be purely speculative for us to say. I do feel comfortable saying that this pattern of behavior, or ledged pattern of behavior, was an open secret among massage therapists and those who are friends with or close to people in the spa industry in Baltimore.

Justin, what's been the fallout? How much intimidation is, if any, around these women?

Intimidation? I don't know we've heard of intimidation. Certainly, we got unfriendly letter ahead of our reporting from a defamation law firm that Tucker had employed. He said that this was categorically false, that this was tabloid reporting, that he had never been banned from any spas. So I think now the NFL investigation is underway. They actually came to town last week and we're speaking with people. Eric Dacosta, the Raven's GM, just said moments ago at the Combine that he had met with Tucker and that he was going to keep that conversation between them, but they're waiting to see the outcome of this investigation.

So, Brennick, can you walk us through some of the details here? Because we're talking more broadly about allegations, but the details on this is a famous person. He is a kicker. This is a part of the body that you would be working on, that you would be in an intimate setting with women who could not do very much of anything about the power and celebrity you have because they're supposed to be working on this region of the body, and then there's ejaculate, allegedly, on the table. Some of the details here that would explain what it is that these women are dealing with because you've got the accounts of 16 of them.

Yeah. I mean, I think at the most broad overarching pattern across the allegations that we would see is oftentimes these women were pretty young, pretty new massage therapists, sometimes in their first couple of massages or their first couple of months of working. And a pattern that they would allege is that over a couple of massages, there would be alleged behavior from Tucker that he... How explicit can I get on this radio show?

No, you can go ahead and explain what it is that's being alleged here. Well, I also want people to understand the difficulty that these women are having in terms of being able to say all of this to people because of the power structure of this is famous kicker in the intimate setting. Yeah.

I think this might be a question that truly would be best to answer just because while we tag team talking to the victim, she talked to the most of them. And not only that, but she also really took the lead and being so careful about how we wrote about this and was explicit with it.

Is that okay if I punted to her? Yes, of course.

So, Dan, the massage therapist shared a variety of allegations with us, but there were some common themes, and there were many things that various massage therapists said. And we should say that most of the massage therapists did not know the others or perhaps knew one other colleague who had had an experience that they reported with Tucker. But these were not individuals who had known each other as a group before this happened. So the massage therapist said that Tucker would come in. He would generally ask for a massage in his inner thigh area, his groin, his lower abdomen. None of that they found particularly surprising because he's a kicker. He's an athlete. And I should say that most of them were very excited to work on him. They routinely have provided massages for other pro athletes. We're talking about some of the the nicest spas in the Baltimore area. They had worked on Orioles and Ravens before, so they were very excited to work on Tucker. Most of them reported reported that Tucker had an erection for all or most of the massage, which they found highly unusual. They are taught in massage school that men do occasionally have an erection during a massage, particularly if one is working on an erogenous area, but they found it highly unusual that he had an erection for the duration of the massage.

The massage therapist also reported that Tucker would move in certain ways to attempt to remove the sheet so that he would fully expose himself. Two of the women that we spoke to said that he, in fact, touched them with his naked penis as he was moving. Several women also reported that he had his hands off of the massage table in an unusual way and touched their thighs with his fingers, brushed them. And several Two of the women also reported that when they returned to the massage room after Tucker had gotten dressed and left, they discovered a puddle of what they believed to be ejaculate on the massage table. Now, of course, as we've said, Tucker has denied all of these allegations in a very strongly worded statement and letter from his attorneys. But this is the general pattern of behavior that we've heard. There's also some details that we did not report until the third story. And as I was listening to massage therapists recount their experiences, I was listening to see if they would include these details because we hadn't printed them in the first two stories. For example, people said that Tucker kept his eyes open throughout the massage and made eye contact with them, especially when he was attempting to expose himself.

That was one thing they said, most of the massage therapists, and they found that unusual. They also described him attempting to move this sheet with his erect penis, which they also said they found highly unusual.

The women say that the incident Ravens took place from 2012, Tucker's rookie season with the Ravens, to 2016. I guess I'll ask you, Julie, this question, since you talked to the alleged victims, most of them, what was the damage done here psychologically? What were the difficulties involved with coming forward? What reluctances did you have when you're trying to talk to people about things that perhaps they might not want to talk about?

The massage therapist that I spoke to described a mounting sense of panic during these massages. They were very aware that he was a famous, powerful, wealthy, and beloved by the Baltimore community. If you had told me in December that we would be working on this story, I would be shocked because like most Baltimoreians, my only impression of Tucker had been that he was a very earnest, creative, talented, a beloved figure. So the massage therapist talked about this sense of shock that someone that they thought was so wholesome was engaging in this behavior. They felt very uncomfortable They said they were very aware of the power differential. Many of them said that they reported the allegations to their bosses or supervisors or colleagues. Others of them were scared and didn't say anything because they were worried they wouldn't be believed. For a lot of women, this was a difficult and painful, I wouldn't say secret, because most of them had mentioned to several people. Some of them had told over a dozen people over the years about these allegations. But it was something that was a really painful memory for them. And when these stories came out and they saw that others had had these experiences or others were reporting to have these same experiences, they felt a lot of emotion.

People described breaking down in tears as they read these stories. One woman told me that when the first story came out, she was flooded with text messages from friends who had known her own story. And they said, Hey, look, you're not the only one. She told me that she was out to lunch with her son when these text messages came in, when that first story published, and she just broke down in tears in the restaurant. And she eventually shared her own account with us, which was included in the third story. So there's a lot of pain, a lot of discomfort. Some folks left massage after this. It's something that they really carried with them over the years.

If I could chime in for a second. Tucker's team did put forward a list of about, I think it was 16 people who had worked on him in more recent years who he said would attest to the fact that they hadn't had any issues with him. We were able to speak with some of them. They said that they had never had any issues, that he was nothing but professional. The Ravens, interestingly, some of the people they wanted us to contact were on the Raven staff, and the Ravens would not let us speak to them. But he also provided a statement from one of the spa owners saying that she had never had any issues. I want to make sure that we mention that as well.

What are your thoughts of the team's reaction, Justin?

My thoughts? I think that it is an evolving situation. I think that they're saying they want to see where the investigation goes. At the same time, there's a sentiment from the fans that they want to hear more from the team. The team, I think, has spoken out about having a zero tolerance policy. They said that in relation to the Deshaun Watts allegations. So some people are saying, Well, you have a situation here. How are you going to handle it? The response to that today at the combine was that every situation is different and it's fluid and that they want to find out more. But there are some people in town who want them to act. I think that if the team were to cut him, they have until mid-March to make that decision. They could, of course, say something earlier as the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers, but I think from their perspective, it's a situation that's still playing out.

For any of you, what are the possible events eventualities here as you see them, in addition to the NFL League investigation? Might there be civil lawsuits? I'm also wondering, given the amount of time that's lapsed, are criminal charges a possibility?

Direct it to somebody because there are three of them there. Direct it to- Well, like I said for anyone- I can take that. All right, go ahead.

Jump ball on a podcast. Really good, dad. Thank you.

Yeah. We can start with the legal stuff first and then go into the NFL investigation. But for the first story we spoke with a number of legal experts just about what the realm of possibilities were. They all pretty soundly said that because of the state statute of limitations, both civilly and criminally, there was very little legal recourse for these women. And even if these allegations had come forward within the statute of limitations, there's also, unfortunately, a lot of the gray areas around what exactly would be the charge for some of these alleged actions and stuff like that. It's not an easy thing to prosecute criminally or civilly, is what several people told us. But regarding the NFL investigation, the biggest precedent that we have with this is the Deshaun Watson case, which ultimately resulted in initially a six-game ban, and then was eventually led into an 11-game suspension and a five million dollar fine of some sort that Deshaun Watson's lawyer has worked out with the NFL. So that is the main precedent that we see right now. There does seem to be an overarching policy now if when the allegations are serious enough, it would result in a six-game ban.

But obviously, Watson's case shows that that's fluid. So it really does remain to be seen about what the NFL investigators find. And then from there with, I less likely with Tucker's team and his lawyers, what negotiations they can go into to decide what's best.

That's interesting, though, Julie. What you're saying there then is that the NFL would be in a position to be more legally rigorous and punitive than our legal system by leaps and bounds.

Yes. It's also really interesting about how they go about this investigation process because most of the NFL's security team and the investigators that they have on this are former prosecutors in some way. They might be former legal experts, former FBI. They really do hire people with strong backgrounds for this type of work. Then also, when they go into the investigation in the Watson case, they also literally hired a former federal judge that was jointly agreed upon between the players union and the NFL to be deciding what to do about this case. They do genuinely go about it in this model that's similar to our court system, it seems.

Have you, Justin, found yourself, or have any of you found yourself, but Justin, first. A blowback from Raven fans?

Yeah. I think that there's been mixed reactions on, say, social media. I think I've seen comments of the nature of like, Oh, this is what during massages, which I think we've tried to address in our reporting that the people that Julie and Brenda spoke to said, I've been doing this for years. I've done hundreds of these. This has never happened before. But nonetheless, there's a certain stigma around these types of things, expectations of what probably goes on. I'd never received a massage myself. I didn't really understand the mechanics of the sheet that's put over somebody. I assumed it was something small just to make the body available to be touched and massaged, but it It's actually quite large. The understanding how someone could maneuver themselves to expose themselves, it's something that I don't know that everybody understands. But yeah, certainly. These are older allegations. These date back many years. I think there's a sentiment from some is like, why is this coming up now? These people must want money. We spoke to earlier, he's really well liked. It's interesting as a kicker. Not every city, not every team's kicker is one of the most popular, visible, beloved players, but that is his place here.

He's known for singing opera at the Basilika. He's in these funny commercials for a gas station that sells really good chicken tenders. It's a crazy thing that all of a sudden we're now discussing this. It's coming off of a down season, too. We have wondered from time to time, did this stuff surface now because he had a bad year? But nonetheless, it's out there now. It's been out there in social media as we spoke I think people are processing it in different ways. But I think that as the allegations have grown, I think we've seen stronger condensation of the notion of that this is too many at this point. This is hard to deny.

Can I jump in for a second? Yes. Julie and I have heard back from many of the massage therapists who we spoke to about their reactions as this news coming to light and as more and more alleged accounts are coming forward. Something that they are, most of the women I spoke with said, and I think also most of the women Julie spoke with said, is that they're really bothered by this notion that people are saying, oh, well, they just want money. Why are they coming forward now? Everyone I spoke with made it really clear, this isn't about money for them. They don't have legal recourse right now. They're coming forward because there is now a critical mass for them to do it and to not just be the one person doing it, if that makes sense, and that we took the time as supporters to come and find them, and the safety and numbers and the fact that we were willing to sit down and listen to them and take their accounts as credible and as something that should be looked into is really what gave them the comfortability to come forward now. And I think that a lot of...

There has been backlash online. A lot of people are distressful of these claims. A lot of people are making a lot of accusations about, well, what would you expect as a massage therapist and different things like that? And I think that's honestly been really painful for the women. And it's something that has made them, I think even more, both confirms that they were really happy that they came forward as a group versus coming forward as one individual at a time.

I'd like to add, too, that the These are massage therapists who are highly trained. They are licensed by the state. They've gone through an extensive training process. They know all about anatomy and that if you have tension in this muscle, you need to work on this tendon. They really see themselves as bodyworkers and healers. We're not talking about some shady massage parlor on the edge of town. We're talking about professional bodyworkers working at high-end spas and wellness centers. And they find it really disturbing that there is a notion that because they work with people's bodies, that it's in some way okay for people to act in this way. They all stressed that the alleged behavior by Tucker is highly unusual, and they found it highly disrespectful to their practice. And I'll say, unlike Justin, I really like massages. Massages. I like to get massages periodically when I have tension in my neck or my shoulders, and I'm a huge believer in the power of massage therapy to help you work through that. So I really understand where they're coming from when they say that they find this behavior or attitudes around it really disrespectful to their work.

Thank you for the work and for the time, Julie, Justin, and Brenna. You could check out more of their three stories, Baltimore Banner reporters. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

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Dan Levatard.

It's all about me. Stugatz. This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugatz. This episode of the Dan Lebitard Show with Studio Gotts is presented by Venmo.

Greg, you owe a fine from before because your phone went off, and I don't want you to get out of here without paying the fine, even though you've been complaining about things. So just pay the fine. My phone is off. Well, no, but from before. I know it's off now. You need to turn it back on. Greg's got to leave as well. He's having some belly button surgery. He has something here on his belly button. You're going down under for it? That we've seen before.

I feel like they're going to put him under.

What's going to happen here with this belly button surgery?

I have an umbilical hernia just above my navel, and it's pretty common, and it's a fairly routine surgery, but I'm finally having I had done.

Is this the little belly button nub that we saw once on camera? That's right. On freedom. I remember, yeah.

How long if you had this?

Most of my life. It's known to be benign. He got it checked out. It's benign, but now, I guess, just because it's there, they're getting rid of it.

Do you guys want to see it?

It's almost bathing suit season.

Do you want to say goodbye to it?

I would love to say goodbye to it.

Is it too late to write a eulogy for it?

We can do that.

It's not worth a eulogy. Let us see it.

Is this considered cosmetic? Yeah. Or is this a quality It's a life thing?

It's more than cosmetic. It is cosmetic, but it's more than that because worst case scenario, my- It could be something, right? Yeah, my intestine could start coming out, and then it's emergency surgery.

Well, that's a bad situation. I'm glad we're waiting 40 years to get around to it.

Your intestine could come out of your belly button?

I'd actually like to see that.

Yeah, stand up. Let's take this thing for a walk.

I don't think that Greg has any expertise about what he's presently headed in. Oh, yeah, it's a big lump. It looks like a nose. It looks like a nose from the side. It does look like a human nose. I want to put some googly eyes on her. It does. Wait a minute. Can we draw some eyes? It looks like a nose.

I'm not going to have eyes over my navel.

That would be a nice little joke to play on the surgeon. They'd be like, whoa. They'd appreciate that.

What if we put a little lipstick mouth underneath it?

Yeah, a little smile.

Yeah, I like that. Greg's got to go. Before you go, can I just get some rapid fire takes from you so that I could get the best of your final embers of material for the work week? So that we can go out with the fireworks show crescendo.

It's crazy, though, that his organs can pop out of that. If he sneezes too hard one day, it just outcomes a lot of.

It's a lot of coughing he does. It's a lump.

When I cough or sneeze, I literally press down on it so that To keep it split and where it is? Yeah. The doctor says that's a smart thing. Mcgillicuddy? Yeah. What's the recovery time on this? Are you going to be back next week or is this a longer- Supposedly, it's outpatient surgery. Really? Yeah.

That's shocking. I feel like we should play a memorial song.

Just in case?

Are you going to eulogyize it?

No, for the belly.

Is anyone going to-He's going to be fine.

He's going to be fine. I guess at your age, it is always dicey whenever someone goes under.

No, at any age, it's always dicey when anyone goes under.

Yeah, but extra dicey when it's someone like him.

No, anesthesia is always dangerous.

It's always- Especially cosmetic surgery, too. Yeah. Well, it's not referred to as cosmetic. Are you getting a tuck or a lift or what?

You ever They're saying, Well, while I'm under? While you're down there.

Put it on the poll, please, Juju. Are chicken tender something that can be delicious at a gas station?

Fair thee well. Benign belly button lump. It's a sad day. We hardly knew ye. It's a funeral dirge. You popped out to say hello during freedom. A lot of things happened during that. Look.

An odd doctor joined Look, that was one of the best things Metalark has ever made.

That 4: 00 AM segment of Greg Cody going to a wood panel house somewhere in Iowa for a doctor to give him a diagnosis over Zoom.

No, in Tupalo, Mississippi.

Was it really that long ago?

Man, It's been part of our lives for so long. We're going to miss it.

Not ready to say goodbye. But if I were to say goodbye, I'd like to paint a funny little face on it.

I strongly recommend to everyone listening on Netflix, Kings of Tupalo, the documentary, it is really great for that region of the country. Greg's got to go. He is leaving. We will say goodbye to him and the flap. And the bellybutt. And the flap.

Howdy patient surgery.

One more take on your way out.

I like to think at a real eulogy, Dan will also give a Netflix recommendation.

Yeah, I know. And chicken nuggets.

And put it on the poll, chicken tendies on a gas station.

That's what I will be doing at his funeral. That thing.

I would like to know. There was a fine Me, too.

Were you just thinking about chicken tendies at a gas station? I don't blame you if you were.

No, because coming out of the interview we just did in the middle of it or toward the end of it, one of... I think it was the reporter, the man, Justin, came out and said that he got wonderful chicken tenders in a gas station. It wasn't just because I was thinking. It just happened second to second.

The commercial he was in. Justin Teller was in the commercial for delicious tendies.

That is a tremendous video of Greg Cody's nose on his belly button, around his belly button.

It is- RIP. Two googly eyes above that. Some lipstick beneath it. A unibrow. Nice little surprise for the surgeon.

I can't hear you anymore.

We can't hear you because you're away from the microphone. We know that you have to leave. Do you have any other thoughts on your way out? You were complaining about Venus Williams still playing tennis at 44 moments ago.

I'm torn on that. Look, she's 44. She's losing in the first round. I don't know whether that's a sad story or an inspiring story. I really am conflicted. Part of me gives her credit for still playing because Serena just recently said how much she misses tennis, so Venus is still hanging on, but she is 44. I don't know how to... Is that sad or is it inspiring? I'm honestly torn.

I don't like to tell people how they should age if they love doing something, what difference does it make whether or not they finish in first place or seventh place if it's something that they love to do? That's partly right.

I think that's partly true.

But what's not true about it? Why are you laughing back there?

Because I believe in the last break, you were telling my dad he should retire from writing. It's true. You caught him on that one. You did.

Got you. Yeah, but- Got you. Right.

But Dan, is Greg writing for the Harold sad or inspiring? We have to determine that first. There you go.

What I was saying of... It's funny that you guys should mention that because I was just saying that to him, but Greg was...

Go ahead. I thought I was out of here. Sorry. Just go.

The thing that we were talking about was him going, trudging out to a Marlins game during the regular season, something he decidedly does not love to do.

I was on your team, but it was just the next segment. You're like, I don't believe in telling people what they do later in life. The last thing you had legitimately seen me do with your father was to tell him exactly what to do late in life.

Did Greg just physically slap his name? I did. I caught myself.

I was thinking as I did it with a ridiculous- It looks like Reilly's tickling my dad's nose.

It really does. He's picking his nose.

Chris- Jeff and Charlie jumped on me the other day, and I thought for a minute he had torn that open. Really? That would have been a way to go.

You had to push your spleen back inside?

Yeah, pretty much. Classic JC.

Greg, you can leave. It's nice seeing you again. Nice seeing you. Thank Thank you for helping us during Operation Blooming Onion, Boomerang, whatever it is.

You should see the stuff that Furman's saying on his message board right now. It's sending me.

Okay, so he's going to be-He's He's using that the scoop came from a booster, I mean, no.

Peter Ruiz did some great reporting on this for weeks, and he's saying that it was amateur to leak this out, as opposed to what actually happened, which was following every journalistic protocol in the book. What's amateur is you not apologizing for saying a report is inaccurate when it was 100 % accurate. Can you say you follow every journalistic protocol in the book when you donate money to the school? Well, I also wasn't the person that was reporting this. I did with the confirmation, but no, in terms of what Gary is referring to, the university and J. Lucas all got a heads up that this was coming out. We were aware of the sensitivities, and we were also aware that a slap dick was going to report it.

Confirment.

I can't believe.

We actually got another nominee. The back room was like, Hey, we can do better than this. And Fuentez had to get involved. Confirmed.

He was right.

I'm not going to lie. I heard it. I was like, That's what I meant.

That's exactly what we needed. That's a good job.

That's why he's head of scouting for the cyclone.

And that's...

Chris, the last time your dad was here and you were out, he was saying that the briefcase you got him could not possibly be a nice gift and could not possibly be as expensive as it says it is on the internet.

Michael got it for him, though. It wasn't Chris.

No, it was me. It was me and my wife. My brother would not spend that money on a bag. Where'd you get it? Just us. I got it at Sawgrass Mall. We know it's Toomey. The expensive stores at Sawgrass Mall, the Toomey store. Wasn't it like a TJ Max or one of those? No. You were in the- No. You had to pay full price? Yeah, yeah. Or was it like, it's fine if it's sale. I buy things on sale all the time. I believe it was three and change. Three and change.

Oh, so you got it for half off. Wow.

Because there was some sale on it. That's still a lot, three and change.

He was surprised that it was a $600 bag. I want to go back for a second, though, because I don't think we should just casually I will probably ignore that perhaps yesterday during the beginning of the show, people didn't know that we were talking about Gary Furman.

A lot of people didn't know that.

The former Miami Hero reporter.

I still don't know who that is. Well, yes. The fact that Mike at the end of the show just went directly at Gary Furman without any context, without any pivot whatsoever to what we were talking about.

I got sent with that coward sending a message board. It's like he's a teenager, and he's still with taking pot shots.

What message board are we talking here?

It's a different one. I own one in Ken's Insight. But just say you were wrong in taking out someone else's credibility. Like a fan chat site?

Also, I believe Greg Cody's words were when we told him it was an expensive bag.

It can't be.

That's right. I thought it was- Well, if he thought it was for Michael, I believe him saying that. I thought it was... He did say Michael. That's a funny point. I thought it was from your brother. The idea, Mike, that you continue to attack Gary Furman- I'm not attacking Gary Furman.

I'm just responding to a bunch of attacks that I think are unfounded. He's the one that went at my company's credibility when this was well reported by one of our employees in Peter Ruiz. Sound reporting, he was on Jay Lucas's name for weeks. If he's upset that he came out there and put his reputation on the line by saying he was inaccurate and then immediately got embarrassed, I can understand that, but capitulate. I'm not out there embarrassing you. Greg Cody did that.

Greg Cody did do that. This is why Gary Furman, as a 60-year-old man, is lurking around in message boards, arguing with people about who broke that story because of what Greg Cody said. Confirment.

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