This Daily Show episode opens with Jon Stewart reacting to Donald Trump's reflecting pool speech and the pre-midterm buzz, including Haley Stevens's endorsement of Mike Rogers and a Michigan rift over Israel. Stewart argues that news networks lean too heavily on polls, and a pollster quoted in the episode admits that major misses happened in recent elections.
The main interview features author Michael Lewis discussing his book Blockers, which examines civil servants who resisted DOGE, including a standoff at the U.S. Institute of Peace and the cuts to NIH research.
Lewis argues that the workforce is being politicized, and he explains why he remains optimistic.
In this episode Jon Stewart, Michael Lewis
This transcript of the Michael Lewis episode on DOGE and blocked civil servants was made with the same technology HappyScribe uses to add subtitles to videos.
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You're listening to Comedy Central.
From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central, it's America's only source for news. This is The Daily Show with your host, John Doerr.
Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to The Daily Show. My name is John Doerr. We got a show for you tonight. Not only is the comedy going to be tremendous, the great author Michael Lewis is going to be joining us later. He's going to be right here. Got a new book out about the deep state of those bastards. But obviously, look, big story: midterms. I know.
But it's closing arguments time. And today, the president took to the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool to make his final case to the voters.
I've kept every single promise I made, except far more. I've actually kept far more promises than I made.
That is not possible. Dimensionally. In this realm that now, dimensionally, yes, that may be possible. But not dimensionally. Those are different things. But you know what? I'm sorry. In the shadow of the Lincoln Memorial, with the echoes of Dr. King's, I have a dream speech. Please lay out for the American people what you think is most important for them to know. And if you could, include visual aids.
That would be so appreciated.
Today, I'm thrilled to announce the official opening of the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool that we're giving Syrians. In the world. It's almost as tall as two Empire State Buildings later this night. We resurfaced the bottom in a beautiful dark blue, very dark blue. They call it American flag blue, but it's very dark. This is a it's painted blue for purposes of it was all rusted. And we fixed the granite. We recaulked it. I mean, they've had all of this has been a year ago here where you couldn't see any water.
It was just algae. And it had a bad aroma, to put it mildly. It's a massive piece of pool.
Good night, everybody. That's just I'm just I don't even I don't even know what to just to be clear, I just want to be clear. That is not AI. That was not artificial intelligence. That was not artificial intelligence. It was a really I think you would agree any kind of intelligence. That was the president of the United States on the day before the midterms choosing to make a speech at the reflecting pool to talk about the reflecting pool. No symbolism, no metaphors, just straight-up pool maintenance.
That was Donald Trump's "I had it cleaned" speech, if you will. I have been to the reflecting pool. But with the president's priorities so badly misplaced, it is no wonder what the expectation is for tomorrow.
An electoral bloodbath.
There is the blue wave coming.
It's going to be a deluge.
A blue tsunami.
Blue bomb cyclone.
Because Latino voters, this is going to be a blue wave and a brown tsunami.
Is she allowed to say that? And isn't a brown tsunami what ruined the reflecting pool in the first place? Or is it no, no, no, wait. Regardless, the Democrats appear in position for a wave election. Not just the House, even the Senate, as long as the remaining couple of days before the election are bombshell-less, drama-free, non-earthquake-y.
A bombshell out of Michigan.
A stunning last-minute shake-up.
A political earthquake in Michigan's Senate race.
Drama in Michigan.
Drama in Michigan? Well, frost my flakes. I mean, of course, we all knew there was drama in Michigan when Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed defeated Haley Stevens in a contentious primary for the Democratic nomination. But Stevens has always been very clear as to their shared goal of defeating Republican Senate candidate Mike Rogers.
Mike Rogers has shown that he's just going to go along with whatever Donald Trump does. He's not going to speak out when erratic tariffs are impacting our auto industry.
He wants to just continue on, rubber-stamp Trump. The fight now is Abdul beating Rogers because Rogers is a nightmare.
Can I tell you something? There is nothing that sounds bad in a Michigan accent. So what's the problem? What's the bombshell?
I am endorsing Mike Rogers for the United States Senate today.
Is her car in a ditch? Is she endorsing Mike Rogers after getting in a car accident? Real quick, before I lose consciousness, I am endorsing the nightmare. The happened? This is like the most diabolical episode of Fargo I've ever seen.
What could have driven, somewhat erratically, I'm endorsing that. What could have driven Haley Stevens into the arms of the Rogers campaign?
But Abdul made very clear that I was not welcome in his campaign, that he didn't need me there, that he didn't want me there. I understand that. I did endorse the Democratic nominee. And he chose to close his campaign by saying I wasn't welcome. I've never been invited to a campaign event. That's fine. You know, he's busy. He's run all around. I've had primaries before myself. It's not about that.
It does sound like it's about that, I have to say. But that says why you're mad at Abdul, but not why you're for Rogers. Rogers is hold on, let me find the word. A nightmare. Who is against every principle you've worked for your entire career. I mean, at least say you were visited by three ghosts who convinced you that it turns out people don't need health insurance.
This can't really be about getting your feelings hurt.
You wanted to be at a public event with him up until some point, I guess, yesterday. And it's just an interesting change. And I think a lot of people are curious to try to understand it.
Was that a question, Anderson?
No, I wanted to see if you wanted to fill in the silence. But you don't.
Oh. Yeah.
Do you see what you just did there, Haley Stevens? Are you happy with yourself? All that sass you made. You just turned Anderson Cooper into Andy Cohen. Is that what you wanted? He didn't want to sass you. He's a newsman. He doesn't want to sass you. You gave him no choice but to sass. Now, to be fair, there is a rift here. El-Sayed has been very critical of Israel. And obviously, Stevens, as also some other Jewish people in Michigan, have been upset by that.
I am not Jewish.
What the? For real? But then why all the Michiganos?
Her fiance is Jewish.
Oh, the fiance is Jewish. That I buy. Again, it looks like I tried to draw Steven Miller from memory. But by the way, just because he's Jewish doesn't mean he's pro-Israel or a Zionist.
Judaism is not a monolith. Supporting Netanyahu and their campaign in Gaza doesn't make you Jewish. Although I will say this: throwing away all of your personal and professional relationships over a perceived personal slight, that's pretty Jewish. We do do that. If I may, that is pretty, pretty, pretty.
That's got big aunt who wasn't asked to light a candle at bar mitzvah energy. You see, in Judaism, there is reform, conservative, orthodox, and curb-your-enthusiasm plotline. You didn't invite me to the party. You didn't invite me to the party. Well, then I am now for deportation. Deportation. I say deport, deport. Man, this split between Haley and Abdul, it raises all sorts of uncomfortable questions about the ability for one issue to split a nascent Democratic coalition.
It even brings up this country's relationship with Israel and what emphasis our leaders should be placing on their safety and how to balance concerns for the tragedy for Palestinians with real concerns about antisemitism. These are real, nuanced, complex issues. I wonder how our news media will discuss them.
The big question now: how are voters going to react, and will it impact the polls?
No. All right. The polls. The polls. No matter how hard you try, you cannot keep our news media off the poll. And I know they might say, oh, we're working our way through the Electoral College. No. Being on the poll is a choice.
And yes, with the Stevens story, as with every story, nuance and complexity matter less than what do the numbers say. Because they know that that is what our little reptilian brains are craving: immigration, tariffs, Iran. We don't care. What's the score?
These numbers are absolutely staggering and very bad for Republicans.
New polls today giving Democrats something to cheer about as we inch closer to the midterm elections.
A new wave of polling and race ratings as Republicans in a fresh panic.
Breaking news. Seeing blue. Brand new CNN polls, brand new poll numbers. The Republican freak-out is here. Whoo, boy. Brand new polling.
Oh, my God. Thank you. I am so sorry I flip out each time.
But here's the question: what if the polls are wrong?
Are you kidding me right now? You mother the big polls. Whoo, whoo. You can't say whoo and then blah. It's whoo. It's not whoo. It's not both. It's like at the end of Caddyshack when he goes, "Hey, everybody's going to get laid." Then he can't go, "But what about that herpes virus? Oh, that's something." You can't do that. But that's what they do. That's the media's little game. They prey on our emotions.
We're like little rats in a maze getting a dopamine hit. We're like college kids waiting for that acceptance to come on through. Come on. Come on, Suni Binghamton. Let's go. They're throwing up these poll numbers on ever-expanding screens. It's a giant screen. It's an even bigger screen. It's an even bigger screen. They're even doing big screens that are controlled by little screens. And they wouldn't put up speculative nonsense in IMAX.
Something that large can't be wrong because the very presentation is a vouch. News organizations are granting these numbers credence by the very fashion-forward and relentless way in which they report on them. But every now and again, in the quiet of the night, when the media tire of toying with the emotional wreckage that is their audience, they do tend to offer a big pharma-like disclaimer that would be nice if they made a little bigger.
It just feels like every election night, we're always like, oh, the polls actually were kind of wrong.
We should all distrust the polls until we get to the election.
It's undersampling voters.
We've seen polls overestimate Democrats.
A lot of people do not answer polls.
Who responds to polls is meant to be random, but it's not always random.
Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't tell you what's going to happen.
They are not predictors of anything.
In the corner, I see margin of error plus or minus 11.
Then why the are we looking at them? Why? Why are you showing them to us? Why are you talking about them constantly? Why? Plus or minus 11 in the corner? Why isn't that the biggest number? Or better yet, why isn't that the number that makes you go, I'm not going to show this shit on television? And by the way, why are they the only motherers who get a margin of error?
The rest of us don't get a margin of error. This utilities check is for $217 plus or minus 11. Of course, I'm having safe sex. I always use zero-holes condoms. Plus or minus 11. For my own blood pressure, can you at least tell me which unreliable numbers I should be focusing on?
The path to retaking the Senate might just run through Iowa.
Fine. Iowa. All right. Fine. At least that focuses it. Iowa it is.
The path to the Senate majority very much runs through Maine.
They're not even close. OK, fine. Maine. Got it. <spk:31> North Carolina could decide control of the upper chamber.
South Carolina could decide which party takes the Senate. <spk:32> Could the path to a Democratic Senate majority run through Kansas? <spk:33> If you want to focus in on one state, it is Ohio. So goes Ohio. So goes the Senate. So goes the nation. <spk:34> So goes Texas. So goes the country. It is all about Michigan. <spk:35> And it all comes down to Alaska.
I'm just going to go. I don't. You so the Senate comes down to the states. And you know what? Even those that pride themselves as polling skeptics cannot resist its siren song. <spk:36> This program ignores most polls most of the time. I have stated time and time again that I don't believe polls.
I don't trust polls. Go on. <spk:36> Boy, the polls that The New York Times published late last night, a shock. <spk:36> But The New York Times poll is one of the gold standard polls. And today's New York Times poll of the South Carolina Senate rate has shocked Republicans in South Carolina. Oh, oh, that's true. These people, they don't even believe in polls. Polls are fly by night. Oh, but The New York Times gold standard. By the way, did you read the article about what The New York Times itself said about its own polls?
I've got the copy right here. It sometimes comes on paper. Let's see their conclusion about their own polls, which I will be reading for real. This is what they said about their own gold standard polls. They said their own polls could either be, and I quote, "dead on," or they could underestimate Democrats, or they could underestimate Republicans.
In other words, even The New York Times is saying it's a poll, or it's a hat, or maybe it's a brooch, or maybe it's a pterodactyl. And let me tell you something right now. The only thing worse than your relentless, incessant coverage of polls is when you make it fun. It's so fun. Aren't the polls fun?
<spk:33> This is the types of numbers that should absolutely be scary. Scary. As the big Buffalo Bills fan let's say, let's go. It's always a roll of the dice when it comes to these Senate races. You got to put on some shades to understand these numbers. Number one. Number one. I'm talking about this, baby. Yeah. Yeah, it's raining in here. It's raining. Please, please. No, no, no. Yes, there is some caution.
It's not fun. It's not fun. It's not cute. I don't know if you know this, but enthusiastic bullshit is still bullshit. Now, I appreciate guys like Harry Enton giving us the numbers to ease the anxiety that we all feel from guys like Harry Enton giving us the numbers. But the schizophrenic nature of the roller coaster ride is unbearable. Here I am, 8:30 in the morning, trying to just get on with my day. <spk:33> The Democratic lead, it is building. These are numbers that Democrats should be salivating over.
Democrats very much on their way a staircase to potential electoral heaven. Wow. In a regime that began on an escalator to hell, a staircase to potential electoral heaven would be most welcome. Thank you. And I'm sure when I check back in on you 75 minutes later on the same day, that's still the case. <spk:33> Hold on a second here, because we've seen this dance before, and it was not a dance that Democrats liked when the votes were actually cast.
If history holds in terms of the GOP outperforming their September polls, well, there's a very, very strong chance that Republicans hold on the United States Senate. Then what the was the staircase with the heaven and the stairs and ooh. Ooh, well, the numbers say we're dropping you into a field of ice cream and blowjobs. But if history is any guide, both are being given by Mitch McConnell.
Oh, yep. Look, it would be one thing if after months of breathless, semi-informed speculation, the polls actually turned out to be right. But if history holds.
If you're hoping that I had landed on exactly why things went wrong, I have not. <spk:33> It just seems to me that the polling did not accurately reflect what was occurring. <spk:34> We have to be really honest in the polling profession that there were some real mistakes made in this election and big misses. <spk:35> I was wrong.
We were wrong. <spk:36> We were wrong. I don't have egg on my face. I have omelet. <spk:37> We've really taken the hood off to look at what we did. That model probably needs a complete overhaul. It was a big surprise. <spk:38> Nobody anticipated it. No polls predicted it. No one saw it coming. How did that happen? <spk:39> Why did the polls miss by so much? <spk:40> About the only way you can hit something right on the nose is through dumb luck. <spk:41> The polls turned out to be about as reliable as a fan magazine account of a Hollywood starlet's rise to fame.
You've been wrong since you could still smoke on the news. Look, an election is an emotional time. The next couple of days will determine the future of our health care, our economy, and the state of our reflecting polls. The news should be soothing our nerves with information and context, not amplifying them with speculation you admit has little value.
So to the cable news media, I am begging you, please reconsider spending so much of your valuable pre-election air time hyping up polls that you know to be unreliable. I can't think of anything more corrosive to your viewers' well-being.
Well, forget about the polls for a second. Just look at some of the latest numbers from our partners at Cal Shade.
Oh, my God. No, Harry. Harry. Harold. Harry. Don't you dare. <spk:33> You can see this right here in the Cal Shade prediction market. Look where we were a month ago. We were at 60% chance. Now we're talking about a very nice 69. You son of a bitch. 69, huh? You old dog.
All right, I guess that might not be so bad. Wait, who's the sex? No. When we come back, Michael Lewis in the studio. Don't go away. <spk:40> The best wardrobe pieces are ones relied on daily. Whether headed to work, going out for the evening, or keeping it casual, as the holiday season approaches, Quince makes finding exceptional gifts for everyone on the list just as effortless as building a modern wardrobe.
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Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe. For 50% less your first year, go to homeserve.com/tds. That's homeserve.com/tds for 50% less. Savings compared to renewal price. Void in California and Florida. Hey, welcome back to The Daily Show. My guest tonight, bestselling author whose latest book is called Blockers. Please welcome to the program, Michael Lewis, sir.
Good to see you. Young man. The book is Blockers. Now, you have become, if I may say so, enamored with the people that make up the anonymous heroes who, on a day-to-day basis, are working tirelessly to make this country function better, work better. How did that come about? <spk:36> The civil servants. The civil servants. <spk:36> Which is different from what's on cable news right now, right?
Yes. <spk:36> It's all politics. Yes. <spk:36> And those people are being elected to run the government filled with the civil servants. That's right. <spk:36> And mostly, they don't know about the government. And that's what got me interested. It came about when Trump, the first time Trump was elected, and he fired his transition team right after he was elected. It was like 550 people who were supposed to go in and learn about the government for him. Right. <spk:36> And I thought, he doesn't know anything about it. It's like the dog caught the bus. And now the dog has to drive the bus. Right.
<spk:36> And you would think the dog would want the instruction manual. And when he fired this mechanism, I thought, it's kind of cool. I can go in, and my readers will know more about what he's supposed to be running than he does. Mm-hmm. <spk:36> And so that, like, you will know about the Department of Energy. Right. <spk:36> And when I did that, when I got in, I was shocked by the quality of the people I kept meeting. I was like, there is the stereotype of the lazy bureaucrat. You know, I'm sure they exist.
There are 2 million people in there. But over and over. 2 million. <spk:36> I mean, 2 million federal workers, right? Wow. <spk:36> And over and over, I found these people who were, like, working 70-hour weeks and being paid 40 and were doing wild stuff. Right. <spk:36> I mean, everything from, like, chasing loose nukes to, like, inventing whole sciences to it was one thing after another. To inventing the science to find people that fall off of boats. <spk:36> Right. I mean. It was insane. <spk:36> You know, it's one thing after another. And much of what they did as a group.
Yes. <spk:36> They're sort of constitutionally incapable of telling their story. They, like, don't know they're the opposite of Trump. They don't know how to, like, advertise what they do. And they're not allowed to. So it was. They can't name their desk after themselves? They can't do any of that? <spk:36> So they're. Interesting. <spk:36> They just assume now, at this point, that if they're getting noticed, it's for a bad reason. Right. <spk:36> Like, it's they're so demoralized that way.
Do they feel the demonization? Is that. <spk:36> They know not to call attention to themselves. So the great challenge with them. Right. <spk:36> When you're with them, is to get them, you know, they're like dogs that have been kicked a little too often, like, just to calm them down. Right. <spk:36> So that they will tell their story. But when you get into it, I mean, the reason I've stuck around is that they are amazing characters. And when this administration came in and set out to traumatize them. The new Trump administration in 2024.
He went about it differently this time. This book is much more about the hostile takeover. This is more about. That's right. <spk:36> Doge. It's Doge and Doge plus other stuff. And it's sort of like asking the reader to understand what's going on by what they've driven out. Yes. <spk:36> Like, it's sort of like a meteor hit the planet, and the habitats have changed, and some species no longer exist. They can't and each species that went extinct went extinct for a different reason.
Right. <spk:36> And these are different sort of different people and different functions of the government who used to do things like, I don't know, stop your tax returns from being weaponized against you. Right. <spk:36> You know, this stuff that we just take for granted is all of a sudden no. It's like part of a big power grab. They have essentially they're trying to politicize a nonpartisan workforce. And that's going to, you know, result in a very different kind of government. I mean, when you, like, would you rather have your air traffic controller?
I love this game. Go ahead. <spk:36> Yeah, yeah, yes. Would you rather have this person selected on the basis of their ability to actually land a plane safely, or would you rather them have to go through a loyalty test to Donald Trump before they get the job? And. You know me. I'm a woke liberal. I just rather they all be lesbians. I don't care about the ability. It's like one thing after another. Yeah. It was amazing that what I found so fascinating about this, maybe the story of the Institute of Peace will be revelatory.
It's a hostile takeover. It reads like somebody stormed a foreign power stormed an embassy. Yeah. On the people who work for them in the government. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. It's strange to me. I mean, I think it's just that they were able to do this. And now both damage and the sort of, like, the seizure of power, the only reason it's been allowed is that I think people just haven't paid much attention to what the government does and how it functions.
Right. <spk:36> But this, I mean, the difference between Donald Trump 2 and Donald Trump 1, Donald Trump 2, he didn't care. Like, he was indifferent, ignorant. Well, they came with a battle plan. And this time, he wants to run not just the government he's supposed to run. Right. He's grabbing all kinds of stuff that he's not supposed to run. I mean, there are all these the Smithsonian. Well, the Institute of Peace. And the Institute of Peace. Right. I mean, had you ever heard of the Institute of Peace? I did not know that we were even looking towards that. Yes. Yes. It is now called the Donald J. Trump Institute of Peace.
But it was. There's a guy in there. It's a crazy story. He evacuates the building, and he locks himself in the building to keep the Doge guys from getting the keys. Close. Can I correct that? Yes. Close. You're close. Thank you. So yeah, you're very close. The security guard. That story. A speed read. Yeah. That story is told through the eyes of the security guard who is defending the building.
That's right. Yeah. And he has a phone, and he can lock down various parts of the building. Yes. And when Doge actually blackmails his private security firm and turns them so that they're invading the building rather than protecting it. Yes. They all end up in a wing of the building, and he hits a button, and all of a sudden, it's home alone. They're locked in. Right. And they're calling their moms and saying, we're locked in. Can you come help? And, you know, they're calling their bosses. And eventually, the hero calls the DC police because he thinks we've got the building, by the way, is not a government building.
It's like it's your house. It's a privately it's a private it's a nonprofit. Right. They own the building. So Doge is invading a private house and taking it. And it's not particularly part of the government. No, no. It's not part of the government. I mean, it's Congress. Look, it gets funding from Congress, but it was designed to be kept at arm's length from political control. Right. And so he calls the DC police. Come get the trespassers. Come get the invaders. And the invaders, by the way, are, like, 320-year-olds.
Muskrats. Muskrats. Yes. Like little black ties. Yes. That just want to get in there and turn it upside down. Sneakers. Right. Sneakers and little black T-shirts. But the DC police, they've been flipped. And so when they come, they take this they march the security guy out. So basically, I open with that because the security guy pointed out, he said, you know, this all starts by them getting control of all the guns. That it didn't look like there was no one fired a shot. Right. It didn't look like a violent incident. By the way, there are guns in the basement of the Institute of Peace, a little like.
Not in the basement, but they've got a cache of guns in the Institute of Peace for some reason. Yeah. Well, the security firm keeps them there. Oh. The reason they keep them there is this is against the law in DC to take your gun home from work. So they have to leave them behind. That's actually why they're there. Really? Who knew? But. You're not leaving with your gun, are you, Bill?
No, I left it in the thing.
But it is when you do take this 2 million person workforce, and you say, all of a sudden, you don't work for it's not an oath to the Constitution. It's not you work for the country. You work for this person who's in the White House. Right. It changes the way the whole government works. Everything is different. And each function is different in a different way. But the change is, like, profound. And you will, you know, you will feel it. You'll feel, like, a degradation of the place.
Well, you make the unbelievable. So part of this is also, you know, it's Project 2025. And it's which is the architect of that is this guy, Russell Vote. I call him Vought from The Boys, but Vought. So you tell this incredible story about the NIH.
Yeah.
And a gentleman at the NIH, Francis Collins.
Used to run the NIH.
Used to run the NIH, who is identified as a blocker.
Right.
They identify people that are blocking progress.
Right.
Francis Collins.
Yeah.
Explain how that all comes full circle with Project 2025 and Russell Vought.
So Francis Collins is a threat to this new administration because he is every senator respects him. I mean, he can speak for science. And he is.
Been there forever.
He's one of the been there forever. One of those people that they kind of try to do things to the science. He can go talk to people.
Right.
So but when they come in, he's just got his lab. He doesn't have any official authority. And they whack him right away. Right.
It's like a bullet to the back of the head. And the kind of cool thing about the story, though it's distressing, is that though he knows he's been whacked, he doesn't know who did the whacking. Like, he doesn't know who issued the order. And so he there's a kind of murder mystery.
Right.
And he wants to find out.
He wants to find out. But what you need to know about Francis Collins is that among the many things that he has done in his career, is he early in his career, he found the genetic cause for cystic fibrosis. And.
Through government funding at the end.
Of course.
Yes.
Of course. The NIH has been returned, like, many dollars for every dollar invested. And it's cured diseases and all the rest. And the chief suspect, the most likely person to have whacked Francis Collins, is Russell Vought.
But tell me the story about.
Well, let me finish.
I was going to tell you.
Let me finish. Russell Vought's child has cystic fibrosis.
That's right.
So you have we have reached a point in our politics.
That's right.
Where there is no humanity, where it's so tribal that they don't even think. And it is this kind of darkness runs right through the story.
That's right.
The people who are getting whacked in the book are often people the people who are doing and the people doing the whacking, they have some relationship, but it's not being acknowledged. And.
And it's even worse than that in some respects because the research that he began with cystic fibrosis, and then they brought in other partners, they actually created a drug treatment recently.
Yeah.
That allows people with cystic fibrosis to take this drug that Francis Collins, through this government research, helped develop. She takes this drug, and her life is safe.
Yeah, that's right.
From that drug.
Yes.
If she had gotten cystic fibrosis born 10 years earlier, she would probably not be here.
It would it's you know, you're going to you're likely to die from cystic fibrosis.
Yes.
Up until very recently. And so that's right. So the man who triggered the process that leads to the cure, to the disease that this other man's child has, is yes, that's the relationship. And so it's I mean, I think we're in a very dark place here. Right? We're in a place where you kind of it's the people under assault.
Yes.
The really good ones are the best among us. They are there not for themselves. They're not there to get famous. They don't tell their story.
Right.
They don't get paid much. They're there because they figured out that the key to their lives is serving other people. And they do it the best of them do it very, very well. The idea that these people are under assault is a shame. I mean, and I think that.
Astonishing.
And I think one of the things you're feeling right now is that. I mean, that the darkness of people not knowing, not being able to name who the real villains are, villainizing people that are literally searching for cures that your daughter may have are being called the villains and the parasites.
In the name of one thing. And it's the acquisition of power.
Yeah.
It's like it's all about the power. And, you know, there's this line in 1984, Orwell's book, where he says, like, how do I know if I have power? And it isn't that I can make you do whatever I want you to do because you might want to do it anyway. It's I can make you suffer. And the cruelty that runs right through this story is that. It's like it's reminding the people in power that it's a kind of psychological thing, the need to feel powerful.
He's even said it. I mean, Stephen Miller has said, we're not doing it. Like, might makes right like, a literal throwback to you remember all those ways that government used to work back when there were world wars and back when the continent was a bloody mess? We're going back to that.
Yeah.
What an incredible, you know, from we're a shining city on a hill moving towards American exceptionalism to, hey, you remember feudalism?
Yeah. No, I know. And it takes a while for the country to wake up, I think. But I think the country is waking up.
Oh.
It's like it.
I hope so.
Yeah, because this is not this is not a bright future, this path.
Have you interviewed is there any recognition amongst those, like Russell Vought, or I mean, some of the Doge guys have apparently had a reconsideration of what they were doing there. First of all, they said, we're saving $2 trillion. Then it turned out they said they saved 10% of that. Turns out most of that's even bullshit. You know, they didn't even do the thing they said they were going to be doing.
And they were never going to do the thing they said they were going to do.
Because it wasn't about that.
It wasn't about that. It was about traumatizing the workforce. It was about creating a smokescreen for seizing the power.
Russell Vought said it. He said, I want them to feel like they're parasites. He said that.
Yeah. So the wild thing about the Doge kids, I mean, they were all the active ingredient in Doge was young men ages 19 to, like, 28.
Mm-hmm.
That the ones most of them came in just they just wanted to be with Elon Musk, you know? And they would just do whatever he said.
Right.
But there were a couple who actually started to ask some questions. And it was interesting, those people, because one of them ends up in the book. He comes in with curiosity, not with contempt. And he's the I think he's the only one who got fired. And it was Sahil Olinidya.
Right.
And he came in with curiosity and not contempt.
But you know what he did?
No, you know what he did? Do you know how hard it was to get fired from Doge? You could make up the college you went to on your resume. You could be a Nazi.
What?
You could no, you could have a, like, a history of sexual abuse reveal. And JD Vance himself would ride to the rescue. But if you said this guy did, he a reporter called him after he'd been in the government for a few weeks. And he says to the reporter, I'm kind of surprised the government is not quite as inefficient as I thought it was. That's what you couldn't say.
No.
You couldn't yes.
That's the line.
That was the thing. That's the line. You can't and it.
Hitler was right.
Yeah.
Youthful indiscretion.
Yes.
Right. Government seems to work OK.
I mean.
Get out.
A lot of these people like their jobs and are good at them. He said things like that and got him a lot of trouble. So but that guy, he's a great character, actually. That guy came in hoping to do some good. And when Doge washed out, someone called him back, and he came back.
Wow.
And you have an app on your phone that will allow you to do your taxes on an app because it's going to happen because of him. And so he has actually figured out something. So there's.
But isn't that the tragedy that so when you think about look, one of the reasons why Project 2025 happened is people were dissatisfied that the government was no longer reflecting and triaging their more immediate needs.
Yeah.
And there is ridiculous cascading plumbing and wires in there.
Yeah.
That need to be addressed. Some of these people seem to have the skills. What a tragedy that they weren't actually applying that to the real function of it.
Yeah, that's right. And it was very there is a need to go in and.
Yes.
Refresh the thing. There's a constant need. What is hopeful is that there are people who exist who want to go in and still fix it. I mean, I don't think I didn't come away from this feeling like, oh, we're doomed. I came away feeling like it's good to know that, actually, the spirit of the country is in these people, these people who are trying to stop the bad things from happening and people who want to go in and fix it. And I think, like, the politics our politics has gotten so out of touch with the culture. Like, Americans aren't like our politics, basically.
Right.
And the minute it becomes enough attention gets paid to this, I think that it gets fixed. That I think that there is a way out of this. But you got to listen to the right people. I mean, and you got to listen to people who are there for reasons other than just themselves.
It's so impressive that you're able to stare into the guts of this and come out with optimism. You know, I hear from a lot of young people, one young person.
Yeah.
Who's in the audience tonight.
Yeah, yeah.
And he said, how do you remain optimistic? And I said, I don't know. But I bet Michael does. And that answers that, is you've seen the power of and that's what this kid's going to be.
Yeah.
Like, they're.
That's right.
They haven't been corroded yet. They still believe in the possibility of uplift.
That's right. And look, we are not our politics is so strange now. But we're a nation of problem solvers. We're philanthropic. Communities form very easily. People don't want to be the noise on TV is not.
It's not sustainable.
It's not sustainable. And the minute this thing and you're feeling it. The minute this mechanism, the government, starts to become really politicized, it becomes something very different from what it's been for 100 years, you're going to feel it every which way. You're not going to be able to eat the food. You're not going to be able to drink the water. You're not going to want to get on an airplane. You know, people right now say they don't trust the government, but they trust the government in their behavior. They own Treasury bonds. You know, they are still basically trusting the government to prevent bad things from happening.
Right.
And the minute they sense that's that's being eroded, that function is being eroded, I mean, I think there's a culture waiting to leap into action.
That's right. And hopefully, there is an electoral price. There's two things that have to happen. There have to be an electoral price to pay for this kind of recklessness and cruelty. And the second thing is, if you are fortunate enough to be on the beneficial end of that electoral change, you better get your shit together and start governing.
That's right. And the I think the other thing that's going on, and it's subtle, is there's a kind of narrative war. Like, Republicans have been telling a story for a very long time.
Yeah.
That all the people in government are just, like, unnecessary.
Right.
Waste, fraud, abuse, all that stuff. The other story has not been told. And I think that telling that story, like, making a point of explaining what this government does, is so important. Like.
Someone should do that. Someone should put it in a book.
It's fabulous.
Yes.
It really is.
Thank you.
And I so appreciate it.
I urge you to get it. For blockers, our best storyteller, Michael Lewis. Quick break. We'll be right back after this.
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Ab jetzt wird's günstig, und zwar richtig. Flaschenpost ist jetzt größer, günstiger und liefert wie gewohnt bis an deine Haustür. Mit über 4.000 neuen Produkten bekommst du Lebensmittel, Getränke und noch viel mehr für deinen kompletten Wocheneinkauf. Alles so günstig wie nie zuvor. Und noch besser: Spare jetzt mit dem Code SPAR15 ganze 15 Euro auf deine erste Bestellung. Jetzt App öffnen, riesiges Sortiment entdecken und deinen Einkauf günstig liefern lassen. Flaschenpost.
That was our show for tonight. Before we go, we're going to check in with your host for tomorrow night, Mr. Ronny Chang. Ronny Chang. Obviously, big night tomorrow. What are you covering tomorrow on election night?
Well, John, tomorrow America votes. And the question is, what effect those votes have on the midterms?
That is the midterms.
What is?
The votes. The votes are the midterms.
Exactly, John. But then the real question is, how big an impact will the midterms have on the midterms?
No, the results are the midterms.
OK, look, you just said the votes are the midterms. Now the results are the midterms. Which is it, John? Get your story straight.
Ronny, I feel like you don't understand how the midterms work.
Of course I don't. I'm from Asia. We don't have midterms. We have dictators. Much better system, trust me.
Ronny Chang, everybody. Quick reminder, by the way, tomorrow is election day. Cast your votes. If you are unaware of where or how, mmm. But go to the link below, and the information on how to do that will be there. Cast your votes. Here it is, your moment is on.
This is a look at where things stand in the Senate, in the race for the US Senate. This is the CNN Magic Wall. We can finally show you the votes as they're being counted. Right now, there are zero votes counted. Let's go to Texas. Ken Paxton, James Talarico, 0% in. Tomorrow, starting tomorrow night in Texas, in the case of 9:00 p.m., because that's when the polls close, this will start to fill in there.
Explore more shows from the Daily Show podcast universe by searching The Daily Show, wherever you get your podcasts. Watch The Daily Show weeknights at 11:00, 10:00 Central on Comedy Central, and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. Ab jetzt wird's günstig, und zwar richtig. Flaschenpost ist jetzt größer, günstiger und liefert wie gewohnt bis an deine Haustür.
Mit über 4.000 neuen Produkten bekommst du Lebensmittel, Getränke und noch viel mehr für deinen kompletten Wocheneinkauf. Alles so günstig wie nie zuvor. Und noch besser: Spare jetzt mit dem Code SPAR15 ganze 15 Euro auf deine erste Bestellung. Jetzt App öffnen, riesiges Sortiment entdecken und deinen Einkauf günstig liefern lassen. Flaschenpost.
Haley Stevens breaks ranks with Democrats by endorsing Mike Rogers, who she once called a "nightmare," right before the midterms, news networks question the polls they use to disappoint us every election cycle, and Trump is STILL talking about the reflecting pool. Jon Stewart breaks down the election week headlines and warns against overconfidence in a 2026 blue wave — because the media can't kick their poll addiction, even though they know it hurts.
Michael Lewis joins Jon to discuss his new book, “Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State,” which unveils an inside look into DOGE’s inner workings and champions the civil servants who got in its way. Lewis and Stewart dive deep into stories of the brave civil servants who “blocked” DOGE, including the wild U.S. Institute of Peace standoff where a security guard locked DOGE staffers in a wing of the building until D.C. police showed up and escorted him out. Lewis also shares how DOGE’s young operatives targeted the people he calls “the best among us” and why he somehow walked away from it all optimistically.
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