Transcript of Part 2: Cleveland Survives, Knicks-Sixers, and Whaddya Do for Denver, Houston,  and Atlanta With Zach Lowe New

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This game felt like it had potential, this Cavs-Raptors game heading into halftime. There were some great storylines at play, including LeBron next year, Cleveland.

Oh boy. Okay. We're going right there.

Mitchell trades Mobley, Giannis, like, let's go. And then Cleveland's like, hold on, hold your horses. And took care of business.

I mean, you can revisit all those storylines next round if, if that doesn't go badly for the Cavaliers. It'd be interesting to see how the Cavs and the Pistons coming off just like gnarly series where they just couldn't get untracked offensively against, you know, in particularly I think the Cavs against the Raptors team that just weird and big and super switchy if they both those teams get to the next round and they're like, all right, this feels a little bit like more conventional basketball to us. We feel a little bit of like a sigh of relief, even though, you know, Detroit is a gnarly team themselves. But it's just, Toronto's just a different kind of team. They're built differently. They're a weird team to play against.

Missing multiple players that they're paying lots of money to. This is my first question for you. Is it kind of embarrassing for Cleveland that this went 7 games?

I don't, I don't think so. Cleveland in 7 was my pick, so I'm not surprised that it went 7.

Yeah. But did you know Quickley and Ingram were basically gonna be scratched from the series?

Quickley scratched the whole series. You knew going into the series that it, I mean, I, I remember saying like, it's probably bad for their offense and good for their defense. The Ingram one, as he was not exactly lighting the world on fire in this series, but there's just a certain critical mass of talent you need to beat a team like Cleveland 4 times in 7 games. And as critical as you want to maybe be of The way Ingram played, it's just, you're just asking too much of guys like Jameson Battle and Mamou and, and you know, Jamal Shed, God bless him, had an unbelievable series and then the jumper deserted him in the second half of the game today. It's just, it's just like these guys were marginal NBA players going into the season and you're asking them to get you over the finish line on the road in Game 7 against a team that has 4 guys who have made All-Star teams pretty recently. It's, it's a tall, it's a tall order. So is it embarrassing?

AJ Lawson is furious that you didn't mention him.

Well, he's furious at everybody because he looked like he wanted to start a fight from the moment he got into the game. I thought, I found the whole thing delightful. But you know, he, he, who did he flag him really for? He wrapped up Jarred Allen and threw him to the floor. Got called for a flagger, a one. I don't think it's embarrassing. Toronto's a pain in the ass to play against. And you know, Cleveland could have won Game 6 easily. They could have won Game 4 easily. They ran away with it tonight in a way, by the way, for, for look, I don't want to like damn them with faint praise, but it was nice to see Cleveland come up against a team that basically looked them in the eye and said, you guys have wilted under physicality in the playoffs before. We don't really have a lot of other ways to beat you given our talent deficit other than beating the hell out of you and seeing how you responded. And like Jared Allen in particular came for the fight today and took the fight to Toronto. And like, good sign for the, for the Cavs.

I think I thought Struis was incredibly important. Yeah, the two, the two guys I had written down, Max Struess had a shout out to Heat culture throwback game, and Jared Allen had a shout out to please stop throwing me in trade rumors. I'm happy here. I don't want to be the fall guy this summer kind of game. He was especially in third quarter. I thought he swung it. And you know, if you're Toronto and you're looking at a big picture and you just did that crazy extension for Pirtle that made kind of no sense when it happened, hasn't even really kicked in yet. And seemed either unplayable, semi-playable, or sort of playable depending on where you caught him in the series. But Jared Allen was just running amok. And then the other thing, Harden wasn't bad. No, they were, we were headed toward maybe sort of a, an old school throwback terrible James Harden playoff game. And then actually he got going and then once they had a bigger lead, then he looked very comfortable.

He, he got going in a way that I, I look, we're predisposed to be nervous about James Harden in big playoff games. He, he was 3 of 9 from the floor. He controlled his turnovers. He only had 2 turnovers, which is big. He's had some high turnover games, but he got like, you know, Jacoby Walker, Jacoby Walter stuck his arm in the cookie jar, got a 3-shot foul. There was that one drive that I think it was the 3rd foul on Scottie Barnes where they were kind of running parallel on a Harden drive into lane and Harden kind of veered sideways into him and Scottie Barnes also kind of veered. I, I, it was, it was, but it, it just seemed like Harden had reached the stage where he was saying to himself, I just gotta junk my way to 10 free throws. That's the only way I'm gonna have a productive game. And that, that makes me, that makes me a little nervous. Just a little nervous.

He was active defensively for James Harden. He was, he wasn't bad. And then Mitchell, who finished with 22, 9 for 20, he was another one that kind of came and went. It was that first half definitely had the makings. —and like the makings of a collapse. The crowd was really nervous. Tariko and Reggie were on it. They could feel it. And, uh, they finished the half strong. Like, I think it was 7 points with, I don't know, 90 seconds left or something. Then Cleveland made a couple shots and a couple plays. By the time we got to halftime, I was like, okay, let's take a breath. Then top of the third quarter blew them out. Um, for— so, for— from Cleveland's standpoint, I, I don't know what I learned. They're going to be going into this Detroit series, which is, you know, an even more physical athletic version of, of what we just saw with Toronto, with the bonus that they actually have a guy who can create good shots and good shots for other people. Toronto had this weird mix of Barnes, who's not quite ready yet as a creator, and then RJ Barrett, who I thought I don't know.

I, I thought he increased whatever his trade value was heading into the last year of his deal. I actually liked his competitiveness. He had the big shot in Game 6. But that was really it. Cade's another animal from those two guys, I think, as a crunch-time guy.

At the same time, I mean, Detroit was a better defense than Toronto this year. They're two of the top 5 defenses in the league. I think Detroit was 2nd, Toronto was 5th. They're a little, they're just a little bit more conventional. Than the Raptors are, particularly when they put CMB at the 5 and just switch everything and muck your whole life up. And it's just gonna be interesting to see if like the, the Cavs offense, even to, even today, take away the offensive rebounds, they just didn't look very in sync. Like Harden and Mitchell don't look in sync with each other. There's just been a lot of dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble. Their assist rate is way down. They're taking way more pull-up threes in this series. I think a lot of that has to do with Toronto just sort of drags you into that style with their switchiness and the way they play. I bet they feel a little bit looser against Detroit, which sounds paradoxical 'cause Detroit is a nasty physical, great defense. I just think they play a little more conventionally, but I think it should be, I think it should be a good, a good series.

Two teams that should be super hungry to get to the next round. All these teams should be super hungry. I mean, Embiid and the Sixers have never made it outta this round in his tenure there. The Knicks have all the pressure on them to duplicate last year's run and get better than that. So it's gonna be a fun second round in the East, I think.

Cleveland outrebounded them 60 to 33. Holy smokes. Both teams shot 28% from 3, right? As you mentioned, it was a rock fight that took forever. Oh, and we had multiple stoppages and reviews, and I thought the refs were really, really bad from a one-sided standpoint. And I had no dog in the race. I didn't really care who won, but I thought, I just felt like Toronto didn't get a call for 2.5 hours other than a couple on Struce.

But well, Mobley was in foul trouble for a lot of the game.

Yeah, I didn't love the whistles, but it was a classic road team game 7. You're not gonna, probably not getting those calls unless you're Philadelphia and Boston. Okay. All right.

Were you watching Jaylen Brown's Twitch stream during the game? Is that what you were doing when this game went to reviews? Were you watching Jaylen on, I think it was Twitch. I'm not on Twitch. I'm not really, I don't really know what's going on there, but I saw some clips. On Twitter and he was not happy with the flopping and the officiating.

I was told there was some director's cut Jalen stuff going on. Definitely one of those start getting texts. I'm like, oh no. Oh boy, here we go. He even, I think, hinted that in the last 3 games there was refs in each game that were not on the level, which I don't know if that, how well that's gonna go over. Yeah.

Does that, does that count? Does Twitch count for NBA like monitoring purposes? Does the league office get to— I think everything counts. Everything counts. Okay.

Yeah, they're pretty, they, they care every time the refs are insulted by players or coaches. So that was going on. And then the other thing that happened was inside the NBA ended it. They did the Gone Fishing for the Celtics. I was proud that I made the boat. So did Matt Damon and Ben Affleck and John Krasinski. And then at the front reenacting the Titanic, Mike Frabel and Diana Rossini. And, uh, they did not acknowledge it, but they were laughing. And then now it's a big thing on social media. So the, those two events were more— those two social media events were more exciting than this game, I think.

So I did see the clip on Twitter of them talking about the boat and Ernie saying, there's our friend Bill Simmons on the boat and John Krasinski. And then they were just like, and there's other people on the boat. Some other people are on there. I don't know.

All right. I gotta say, it was really funny. Here's the word from—

here's the word from Kia. I would love to have been like, who— when they created it, there had to have been a meeting. It was like, are we, are we doing this? Is we like, we're putting them on and we're doing the Titanic pose. We're good with that. There had to be someone who was like, guys, I don't know. And then someone else who was like, screw that, it's funny, we're doing it. And then it got greenlit.

Well, nothing would be more fun than inside the NBA being in fuck it mode with ESPN over the next couple of rounds, just feeling like, yeah, We start pushing the envelope, guys. Can you handle it? Big, big, big picture. You mentioned Cleveland versus Detroit, which is our round 2 matchup now. These teams have played entertaining games during the regular season. I probably have slightly higher hopes for this series than most because I think there's animosity on both sides. You have the Schroeder piece. Where he used to play for the Pistons and he'll be up to stuff.

That's every series with—

no, he's played. Yeah, I know he's been on every team in the league, but I always enjoy that. Was he— he was on Toronto too, right? Yes, he was. Yeah, he's not— I just figure he's played for every team. But we have that. We have, you know, Max Struess, no stranger to, to the physicality. We have the Beef Stew. Jalen Duren combo battling the, the two soft-spoken Cavs guys. But I, I thought, I remember watching one of these games and Cleveland seemed really comfortable going against Detroit. And I think my lean, even though I don't really like this Cleveland team that much at all, and I think they give up a lot of open shots, I'm just not sure Detroit's gonna be the team to exploit that. So I gotta look at this more, but my lean would be Cleveland in 6, and I don't feel good about it.

I don't feel good about either of these teams coming off the series. I'm gonna take a lot of tomorrow and, and go back and watch some of the games that they played and get a sense of who guards who and what the matchups are gonna be and strengths and weaknesses of all that. I think it should be a long series. I would probably slightly lean Cleveland, but awesome performance by Detroit today. We already talked about that. Yeah, they're, and you bet, like Struce, the Struce-Duncan Robinson Heat culture castoff battle is, is happening.

Forgot about that. That's a good one.

I think it would be a funny subplot if like, mild-mannered Jarrett Allen. Like if Beef Stew did something and he just like snaps, just Jarrett Allen just snaps and sudden and like knows, and knows karate or something. And just we, stuff we didn't know about Jarrett Allen. And it just, who knows? Anything's possible with Beef Stew.

We have a, we have some open for a reason guys on both teams. A lot of them. I assume, I assume the Cavs will probably just put Harden on Thompson.

Right? Maybe. I mean, you could, you could put, you could put Evan Mobley there if you want to have him as a help defender. I mean, it's one of the reasons why Suggs was guarding Asar Thompson is to have your best help defender, you know, be the help guy. So they could do— some people put their centers on Thompson and sort of risk it. They could put Jared Allen there and put Mobley on Stewart. There's a lot of different things they could do.

Was that a Kenny Atkinson, I saved my job game tonight?

It would've been interesting offseason in Cleveland. I mean, you remember we did our, our draft of all the playoff guys and one of them was hot seat, sneaky hot seat category. Who's the head story coach? And I said Kenny Atkinson or Chris Finch. Chris Finch has answered all the questions. And I said, by the way, I don't think either of them should be, but I do think this is a very pressurized season for Cleveland, which is why that second quarter felt so fraught because you know everything that's at stake, particularly when you make a trade like Garland for Harden. Like your messaging to your team is pretty clear. Like, hey guys, it's, it's kind of now, like let's do it.

What do you think LeBron was doing watching that game? Deep down rooting for Toronto to open up a Cleveland possibility? 'Cause we still don't have a LeBron team next year.

Don't you think it's—

it might be the Lakers at this point.

Don't you? Well, I mean, why wouldn't it be the Lakers? They're like, what? Again, a lot of it comes down to money, right? Like what kind of deal is he gonna be willing to take? But the LeBron that played the last 2 months of the season with Reeves and Luka, those, it worked perfectly fine. Don't you, wouldn't you think LeBron is relaxing and or, I don't know if you've heard this, but he spends $1 million a year on his body. So he might be, he, he might be trying to get ready for the the freaking Oklahoma City Thunder. I'm, I'm, that's what I'm gonna assume was happening.

You know, I think I was ground zero.

He's 41, Bill. I don't, like, I don't know if you've looked that up recently. He's 41 years old.

LeBron, LeBron James, oldest player ever to do name 130 things. I was ground zero for the LeBron spends $1 million a year on his body story. Really? Yeah. 'Cause I did it in 2016. I did it on a pod. 'cause I spent time with somebody in his circle who was telling me that. So I talked about it and for some reason got aggregated and became a story. But I'd like to, like to feel like I was Dr. Oppenheimer for that one. Oh, you just kept going for the next 9 years. I always like to throw Oppenheimer.

I was gonna say, I don't know if you wanna keep comparing yourself or other people to Dr. Oppenheimer.

You know, he's, he's now, they're making movies about him.

Maybe my favorite Christopher Nolan movie, by the way. Oppenheimer.

Really? Yeah, might be over The Dark Knight.

Yeah, I loved Oppenheimer. I thought it was, I thought it was a, I thought it was a masterpiece.

I don't even know where to go after that. By the way, you just made me think of something that I absolutely loved. Um, no, it was just, just a totally random thing I was going to do later, but somebody, so this guy, @Achester99 on Twitter. Sure. He, he somehow went through and found the record holder for points for every point total between 0 and 100. So for instance, Greg Kite has the most zero-point games in NBA history at 295. 295 zero-point games. This was the one that broke my brain. It might be the greatest stat I've ever heard of. One-point games. Jay, somebody had 61 one-point games and it's somebody that played in the last 25 years. And you won't guess it 'cause this is impossible. Reggie Evans had 61 one-point games.

You know, I was actually going to say it would have to have been like an inferior version of Dennis Rodman. Like someone who's just, there it is. Just like that. And that's 'cause Rodman was too good and would scrounge his way to 6 or 5 or 8 or whatever, but they would have to be a player like that.

Your league leader with, at, for 6-point games, Michael Cage at 151. Similar. So he's on the board. Similar guy. My guy Robert Parish, 3 different holders at 14, 16, and 18. Our guy Tim Duncan, 19-point games. He had the most at 88. And then, and then our guy Dirk Nowitzki. Bring this up next time you're on the Amazon show. He, he's the career leader in 21-point games with 82. 82. What's the biggest number?

Like who, like, so does, is 253 the greatest single number of any kind of games on the list?

Harvey Ketchings at 193 and Greg Kite, that he had 193 2-point games. Harvey Ketchings. Okay. Greg Kite had 295 for zero. And then 295. So Karl Malone is there for 23 and 24. What, what's weird is Kareem wasn't on here, which I was surprised. And then it gets to 25 and LeBron has the record for 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, and he's tied at 38. And Jordan only has 38, 39, and 40. And then we move into like Jordan Will territory.

What a great— I got—

you gotta send me this. I read— I'll send this to you. I was reading it for, for literally 45 minutes. I've been more riveted by anything on Twitter in a while.

I mean, it's just, it's a, it's a high class, high intellect version of name some guys. Like, oh, Greg Kite, Harvey Ketchings, Michael Cage. It's just like, let's name some guys, but it has math attached to it. So I like it.

Derek Fisher has two different ones, 5 and 7 point games. He has the records for both. But T.R. Dunne has the 4-point game. I really love this. I need more, I need more content like this in my life. So, so Cleveland barely beats a team that had settled in crunch time in Game 6. CMB, a rookie, Jamal Shed, RJ Barrett, Scottie Barnes, and Walter. That was their, that was basically their money lineup in Game 6. And then they tried to keep it going again today, probably spent I'm gonna say $75 million combined on those 5 guys this year. And they're going against Cleveland that has Mitchell, Harden, Mobley, Allen, even Max Strus makes like $17 million a year. Noble effort for Toronto. Yeah, absolutely. What happened? What happens? Let's play what do you do with Toronto?

What do you do? Oh boy. Well, I have a lot of different things I could do because I've got all my picks. I've, I've, my roster is too expensive. Let me bring them up their cap sheet here.

Uh, yeah, sadly they're paying Ingram 40 and 41 next 2 years and quickly 32.5 each of the next 3.

Yeah, I think not to mention the Pirtle extension we talked about before, that gets ugly. I think all of those guys have now reached the territory of I have to attach something to get off of them. Um, if we're doing—

if we're, uh, including Ingram, I mean, all-star Brandon Ingram.

I don't think that player option is— maybe he's neutral and you could put him in.

He picked it up already. He just picked it up.

The player op— nobody likes— no teams like player options. I mean, the Quickley deal, which I didn't mind when it happened, has not worked out. He just hasn't been healthy enough. I never liked it. You know, Barrett, his extension eligible, and you know, he's walking in the door being like, hey, most successful Raptors season in a little bit here, and I was a big part of it. Can we, can we work something out?

I kind of like his game. The more you watch him, he, he, Does that crafty lefty stuff— I thought he matched the intensity, athleticism of the, of some of the playoff moments.

They're just in a tricky spot because, you know, if they wanted to reach for the stars, right? They've been linked to Giannis before. Or what's the trade? Or like, is there a trade? Like everyone's gonna ask for Scottie Barnes. He's obviously untouchable. Is there a trade that they can even do that would satisfy the other team and leave them with enough stuff in the cupboard to actually win? I think the right move might just be like, look, we know this team, this team probably is a little better than we thought based on our playoff performance. They're a pretty good team. We know what they are. Let's not get too crazy here and just see who can rehab their trade value a little bit. Maybe there is some sort of get outta jail free card with one of these contracts. We've got all our picks. CMB is over here with Scottie Barnes. Like, that dude is awesome and I'm not doing anything foolish with him. I want him on my team for a long time. I like Walter too.

Walter's good. I think he's a keeper.

Yeah, they learned some good stuff about some of their young players in this series. Like, Walter was totally up for this, made some big shots, had a little slump in the middle of the series.

See, Sheds is a 9-man rotation guy. Yeah, so they have a couple. The problem is that Pirtle extension kills them for a Giannis thing. 'Cause if, if they, if that wasn't attached to the end, and when you talked about go crazy, like, that was crazy when it happened, and now it seems even crazier. But you could have had expirings and RJ expiring and 2 years left, or 1 year, that would've been expiring for Pirtle. So basically that would've been your expiring package. And they have all their picks, they have everything, so they can do every combination of picks and swaps. So that if Giannis had said, send me to Toronto, they at least could have had something semi-respectable. I'm not sure they're gonna be able to get there the way it is now.

Grady Dick just not being able to play is a pretty big disappointment considering what happened with that.

You liked him for a split second, didn't you?

He can do some stuff. He just hasn't made enough shots and he's not good enough defensively and he's, he's got some, it just, Walter just passed him and there was only room for one of them in the rotation. And that's what happened.

Did he do enough that he can get a Grady Dick was a problem Twitter video in like 10 years or not?

He easily did. We can make it this week if you want. It could be at least 3 and a half minutes long.

All right, good. I just wanted to make sure he at least had that.

Only the half of the video would be jersey swaps. The other half would be his actual plays. True.

The big thing for them was Barnes had a great season. He went up a level. I am not sure he could be the best guy on a championship game, but he can definitely be the second best guy. And he might even be able to be the Jaylen Brown with his version of Tatum. I thought, you know, physically, athletically, competitively, he has everything. There's just, he, it's really hard for him to create his own offense. He could do it. It never feels great. It's, it's very similar to where Iguodala was in those Philly years and even that one Denver year where it's like he can do it. It's probably not a great sign for your team if he's the one doing it and he's so much better if he's kind of over here. So they gotta figure that out and I don't know how they figure it out with the roster they have.

I think the mid-ranger is coming along. I, I felt more confident in it in the series than I had before. And I, I, I really think he is the guy that would've benefited most from the idea of what Immanuel Quickley was supposed to be for this team. Sort of a, a, a, a good shooting, like half point guard, half spot-up guy. Doesn't need the ball, but can work with it, can run pick and rolls both ways with Scottie and just sort of loosen the defense up in ways that a guy like Shed can't do. And we just like haven't seen quite enough of that combination over the last, you know, 2 seasons to, to really see what it could be. But Scottie leapt a lot of guys this year, like, Like he, he left a lot of guys behind him in the NBA player rankings. Like Bankaro. Yeah. It's not close right now. Well, maybe it's close, but like he, he left a guy, I don't think so. He left, he left guys like that and then he might make All-NBA and it wouldn't be like illegitimate. He had a great year and tough as shit in the playoffs.

He, he was ready for all of it.

Played super hard. I'm gonna thought bubble a trade that I would love them to do and you're probably gonna jerk backwards and then be upset and maybe go deep in the thought for like 5 seconds. Brandon Ingram for Kevin Durant.

Okay, so if I'm the Rockets, why am I doing that?

I'm getting off of Kevin Durant. Wow. Just, just, I'm just moving on. Just a lot of baggage. I'm just gonna get outta that one. Money's about the same. And Durant gets to, probably wouldn't be psyched about going to the team that their fans cheered when he, uh, when he tore his Achilles during the Finals. Um, I don't know if he'd be super pumped about that one, but you could, you could work with him.

I, I don't love the Ingram fit in Houston with the other pieces that they have. I'd rather try to trade Durant and aim a little differently.

Um, But how many teams are actually really think gonna talk themselves into being the latest team that potentially could become unhappy just by sheer coincidence that Kevin Durant showed up and then things became unhappy? Teams would talk.

He's still Kevin Durant. He's gonna make an All-NBA team this year. Did you vote him All-NBA? I sure did. So, I mean, there you go. Uh, he, he will. He's got just next year and then a player option, which is interesting. I think some good teams would kick the tires and give Houston stuff that makes more sense than Brendon Ingram. But I will say, I don't know if you read The Athletic, what now they tell us story about the Rockets yesterday. Did you catch that? I loved it. Well, I mean, but it wasn't, there was nothing in it that was particularly revelatory.

No, I just love when they happen.

Because I think we've all sort of made the calls and made the rounds and had the meetings of like, okay, so no one is really denying that this was actually Kevin Durant on the texts and burners. And like it, and they had some lines in there, like sources say it was a big issue within the organization and blah. Yeah, it was. And yeah, no one on the record, off the record, privately, publicly has come out and said, no, no, it was actually wasn't Kevin Durant. Which I don't know what else to conclude from that other than it seems like it was Kevin Durant.

It's too bad. We'll save the rest of it for our deep dive this summer. Our Kevin Durant deep dive.

I mean, do you disagree?

I, nobody has come out and denied it. All evidence suggests that it is. It seemed to have had a before and after impact on the team.

And it seems like it was him. And they had also, there was also lines in the story that were like, The whole team came together and agreed to just like squash it, keep it in-house. We're not talking about it. Like the whole thing in the, in The Athletic story, which I've also heard similar, like meetings took place, was just like, it was what, it was a huge issue. Whatever it was, it was a big issue.

Taking a break for the pod. Continuing to go here on Netflix. 3. So we know all the series and Lakers, Oklahoma City. You basically can't even bet on Oklahoma City for the series. It's like you have to risk $3,000 to win a dollar. The, the odds for the series though, a sweep is +125 on FanDuel and OKC 4-1 is +175. And then the odds get progressively wonkier. We just had two massive upsets last round with the Lakers upsetting the Rockets and the Sixers upsetting the Celtics, that from a moneyline standpoint were two of the biggest upsets we've had in the last 15 years. I do not think this will be the case. Is there any sort of case you could make that doesn't involve Luka comes back and immediately goes nuts? And I, I don't even know how they would win two games.

I mean, Luka comes back plus Jalen Williams remains out. Would've been a roadmap towards an interesting series. Yeah. I, it doesn't seem like, I mean, the latest updates on Lucas, he's still a bit away. And I just don't know that even with, even if J Dub, who's, I mean, when's the last time they played at this point? A week ago? Have they had a week off now?

Well, I mean, their practices are probably more competitive than, than first round was. You know, it, I, I just don't see a roadmap for the Lakers without Luka to really make it a competitive series. There'll be some competitive games, they'll slow it down and play their old man basketball You know, being the best guy in a playoff series at age 41, all that stuff.

And now you have the OKC Pitbulls being unleashed on you. Well, it's like, it's like the Father Time, Father Time is like the whole metaphor is just this series, Father Time versus LeBron. Here's Team Father Time, like a bunch of guys who are 25 and younger and awesome at basketball. You are 41 and just have at it. Yeah. You're laughing at Father Time, LeBron. Enjoy it for the next 2 weeks.

Biggest playoff series upsets. The biggest one in the last 30+ years was, uh, that Nuggets-Sonics one. The Nuggets were +1,400.

Um, 12 to 1.

Oh, sure. Yeah. And then 2012 Bulls Sixers.

Wow.

The Sixers were 9 to 1, but Rose got hurt at the end of game 1 that Uh, yeah, I don't think there's a lot to discuss with this one. It does— with that, we talked about it briefly in part one about Edwards coming back from Minnesota. Um, anything intrigue you about Minnesota other than the obvious, which is that they're a bunch of badasses who are unafraid of everybody? There's some go bear Wemby. Edwards may be convincing himself he's the best player in the series. Some of those Spurs young guys may be getting a little tight.

Say, what, what, what's the roadmap here? The roadmap is just underestimate the Timberwolves at your own peril. Like they've proven it over and over again. This is like whatever happens in the regular season, cool. They go up, they go down, they play up to the competition and The Ant-Steph-Cassell matchup is just gonna be— oh my gosh, hellacious.

From Steph will get the assignment on him presumably for a lot of the series.

You know, I'm gonna say nobody under 12 And I, I was, I did spend some time last week watching some Spurs-Wolves just matchups just to see like who guards Wemby, how do they do that? And there was just guys have been injured off and on the entire, we've barely gotten to see the real teams play against each other. But Gobert did guard Wemby for the most part when Gobert was healthy and Wemby was healthy. And Steph did guard Ant for the most part. And it, there's just a lot of, look, Spurs are better. Spurs have home court. They're healthier, they'll probably win. But I think Minnesota can make it a long series and I think they could win the series. Wemby shooting threes and actually making them versus what Joker did That was unbelievable.

I thought he was washed up 2 years ago. Minnesota to win in 7 is 15 to 1. Minnesota to win in 6 is 13 to 1. Wow. Spurs sweep, 2 to 1 Spurs sweep. And then Spurs in 5 plus 195, which I think would be the smart pick. So gentlemen sweep is the, is the favorite. Yeah. Maybe Minnesota wins 3. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give Minnesota at least another game. I, I'm gonna dig in a little bit more tomorrow. I'm gonna dig in a little bit more tomorrow.

Watch a little more, do a little more research, but I, I, But my inclination is to not underestimate the Bulls.

They've certainly proven it and they've certainly proven that they've taken the nobody believes in us NFL mentality. Chris Finch, after the, after the win, was not shy about saying, hey, they wanted us, did that whole thing. I loved it.

I loved it. Yeah. I mean, those two teams legitimately hate each other and it's awesome. I just want one. It needs to happen once where Ant's got a bit of a runway and Wemby's the last line of defense and Ant says, I'm going for it. And I don't know, I don't know what will happen. Like there could be just the rim could break, the backboard could break, fans could be injured. I don't know, but I wanna see it.

It's Superman 2. Superman's flying into one of those guys in the air and there's Yeah, I swear a puff of smoke. Do you want to guess what the FanDuel line is for Pistons-Cavs for the series? Because it's out. Uh, who do you think's favored?

I think it's, I think the Cavs are favored by a very small amount.

The Pistons are favored by a very small amount. Okay. By a few small beers, -122. A few small beers. Cavs in 7 is 6 to 1. Pistons in 7 is 4 to 1. Cavs in 6 is +340. I would, I would probably go exact games over the, the series betting in this really tough one. Honestly, this probably a stay away as a series bet, but we can't stay away tomorrow. I know. I think we're both leaning slightly toward the Cavs, but I certainly wouldn't bet my life on either one of these.

I'm going to do, I'm going to do more of my homework tomorrow. I didn't do my homework yet because I wasn't going to do double the homework. In the series. Cavs-Raptors just took forever. Pistons-Magic took forever. Yeah. So I gotta do all my homework tomorrow.

And then Philly-Nicks, Knicks -260 over Philly. Philly's +215 as underdogs. And then, uh, if you want Knicks in 7, which would be great, that's +380. Sixers in 7 is 8-to-1, and Sixers in 6 is +550. And if you wanted to go nuts, you could bet the Sixers sweep at 25-to-1. That's a ballsy bet. Sweep at +550. Yeah. That's gonna be the best of the 4 series unless we get Ant really looking like Ant again. But I think Knicks, all the storylines with this Knicks-Sixers series, real animosity with the Knicks and the fans toward Embiid for multiple incidents from previous years. The Maxey versus Brunson kind of each, each side not being able to stop the other. And now they're probably not even gonna guard each other. The Towns-Embiid, which that rekindled this weekend. I had forgotten about the, the tweets from 2019. What, what else? And then OG Anunoby being the best player in the world. There's a lot of different storylines we have going. What, what else do you like outta this?

I, I had forgotten about the KAT-Embiid stuff from all those years ago. So that's very exciting and I'm glad that everyone has done their job in dredging it back up for, added, added animosity. The Mitchell Robinson and Embiid stuff is well known. I think it's a big Mikael Bridges series. Like, you know, good finish to the Hawks series in the last game. Found his equilibrium a little bit on offense. He's gonna get, I would guess he'll get the Maxi assignment from the jump. He's been their primary guy. It's a really tough assignment for the Knicks. They don't have a great option. I mean, not that many people do, but You know, Anunoby's tried it, Hart's tried it. They, they tend to trend bigger defensively and not smaller and quicker. And Bridges, it's like, you know, everyone's gonna laugh at that trade forever. As Brian Windhorst, our friend, always says, if you win a championship, every trade's good. Every trade's an A-plus. Every trade's fine. And so like, here's a series that's kind of tailor-made for you to, you don't have to score 22 points. You don't have to run as many pick and rolls as you did in Brooklyn.

That guy, fine. Be Phoenix, be Phoenix Mikael Bridges and play the best defense you've played as a Knick and get us 14 points a game and like we're all gonna be happy.

My guess is they use Bridges to do the 94 feet thing on Maxie and then bring some Josh Hart in for that and then Alvarado for 5 minutes a half and just, just putting bodies on him the entire court at all times. It's not always gonna work. He's, he's gonna be faster than everybody. He's gonna get to the basket, but I think that's what you're gonna have to do. You have to approach it as We gotta cut the head off on this one, on this team. He's the head. We gotta cut it off.

Alvarado and Embiid are gonna have a moment at some point in the season where Alvarado's just gonna be like annoying him around. Like Embiid's gonna be like, what is this thing down here that's annoying me? I don't like it. And Jose Alvarado's gonna get all offended by it. It's good. That, that's gonna happen.

The Embiid flopping at MSG is gonna be appointment viewing. They, they've already conditioned to really hate it. I know the Celtics fans who are not big fans. And I, and then you have the Towns piece of it too, where you, you could see a couple double flops. You could see Towns recoiling in horror as Embiid is flopping the other way. And it's like a flop off. Hey, almost like an 8 Mile when we had the rap battles.

Every team's got a flopper. Okay. There's flop, there's floppers everywhere. Jalen Brunson has not been averse to the occasional head snap flop either. Like there, there, there's, he's another one.

You're right. He, he coming around a screen could go fly. That could be another flop off. Yeah.

I mean, it's, and the crowd reactions will be awesome and every player will act as if they definitely didn't flop. And I just want people to start using the flop sign more often 'cause I think it's really fun. It's pretty, let's bust it out. I love, I, I loved Embiid talking shit to the fans in Boston during the game, telling them to be quiet. Yeah. I love, it was like a kind of bravado. It was a new level of bravado for him because it was like, could've gone badly if you blow the game that ends up looking badly and he was fine with it. And I like to say he's always done it though.

Like even in 2018, he was, he was doing it. We were like, dude, you just got in the league.

What are you doing? I, and I like to—

yeah, he, he loves it. It gets him going.

And I love that he told Philly fans, don't sell your tickets. Get all the tickets. We can't have these Knicks fans coming down on Amtrak overpaying for our tickets. We don't want it to sound like Madison Square Garden. He lay, he laid down the gauntlet for the Sixers fans who have been waiting, waiting for this team. So let's do it.

Who is this a more painful serious loss for, I would say, the Knicks, like for the fan bases. This is like, if I'm the Knicks right now, if I'm a Knicks fan, the seas have parted over the last week. Detroit looks incredibly vulnerable. So does Cleveland. The Celtics are out. You had this whole Tatum revenge thing lurking. That's gone. You have this Philly team that you've already had a lot of success with, and there's just a clear roadmap now. Like, this is the year. Right. This, this is the best chance I think they're ever gonna have in the East to win this year, right now, next 4 weeks.

It's, it's amazing how it's turned from Hawks series is not going well. We gotta fire the coach. We like, what's the Giannis trade this summer? What's the move to now? Like, oh, we're the, the East is broken right for us. The more painful series loss is definitely the Knicks, as painful as it would be for Philly. And their fans to get a taste of this and then have the rug pulled out in the same round where the rug is always pulled out for them. I think to get that, those 3 games against that team, the Celtics, and to vanquish them the way they did and to just get a glimpse of what this team could be if they continue to play well and lose to the Knicks, I still think it feels like a, a fun season with some hope for next season.

Right. For the Sixers. Yeah. We got to see Embiid play meaningful basketball again. Baxley became a guy. We clearly have something pretty special in Edgecomb. We'll see how far it goes. And we resuscitated Paul George.

And we, and, and we eliminated the number 2 seed Boston Celtics, our ancient, ancient rival for the first time in a long, long time.

Yeah. First time since '82.

In pretty heartbreaking fashion for them. Like you gotta take some joy outta that if you're Philly.

Philly's +650 to win the conference. Knicks are +145. What's interesting about that is I kind of think whoever wins this series goes to the Finals. 'Cause I think if the Sixers win the series, that will mean that what we just saw for 2 and a half games was actually real, for real. And then they ran through the Knicks and you know, that from a talent standpoint, they're top 4 if everybody's healthy and Paul George is playing like that and Embiid is fine. Like you'd probably, put that against any other top 4. I still think the Knicks are gonna win. I would pick the Knicks. But listen, man, the Sixers, if they're gonna play like they played the last 2 and a half games, it's a hard team to play. No question.

I will also pick the Knicks. I, I would lean Knicks in 7 right now. I'm gonna do more, more work on it tomorrow. But I think Cleveland and Detroit should feel exactly the same way. They should have the same attitude of like, Oh, we, this is open for us. I know that they haven't, yeah. You know, an 8th seed took Detroit to distance, an undermanned Raptors team took Cleveland the distance. But every matchup is different. Every matchup is gonna feel different. And whoever wins that series is, should not be afraid of the Sixers. Like who can they stay healthy this whole time? The Knicks. I mean, Detroit played the Knicks to the hilt last year in, in the first round. I, I, I think both those teams should feel that way too.

I don't know. I, I've Detroit going to the death's door basically in that Orlando series and having to take every single ounce of everything just to win in 7. I don't think it was an awesome sign for them. And then Cleveland against Toronto losing 2 guys, like even just not finishing Toronto in 6, not a great sign for them either. We, I gotta do a couple more what do you dos quick. Okay. What do you do if you're Atlanta and you have Jalen Johnson at 120 for 4, Daniels at 100 for 4, Okonwu at 16 and 17, Alexander Walker at 14 and 15. You're stuck with Kispert at 13 and 13. You got RisheShae at 13 next year. Kuminga is a free agent. CJ is a free agent. And you have that New Orleans first rounder that might be in the top 4. You'll be at the lottery a week from now. You could create up to $29 million in cap space if you get creative. So you could do something like we discussed in part 1 where you could trade Daniels and the pick and try to get a franchise guy or, you know, an All-NBA guy or an All-Star, whether it's Jalen, Giannis, whoever.

Or you could just say, I like what we have, let's re-sign McCollum. Let's try to lowball Kaminga and maybe bring him back for one more year to see what we have. And let's try to nail this pick. And look at the late 2020s for when we make a run? What would you do?

Yeah, the first thing I gotta do is see what happens in the lottery and who I can get and where I'm picking. My inclination is almost regardless of that, given the state of the East in general, like, I mean, we'll see what the Pacers are just sort of sitting over here as the forgotten man in the East that's going to come back. You know, we'll Hopefully full health.

Not if they get a top 4 pick, they will not be forgotten.

That, well, that's true too.

They'll be adding Haliburton, Zubats, and one of the 4 picks in a generational draft.

Or trading it for who God knows what, but probably knowing Indiana and the way they generally operate, just making the pick and saying, we're thrilled to do this. My inclination if I were the Hawks would be, I, I, let, let me let this marinate a little bit before I do anything. Too aggressive depending on where I pick and I like Okongwu, I like Alexander Walker. I think Daniels is an interesting player. I'm obviously not trading Jalen Johnson. Risacher is the one we just gotta figure out, how do we revive this? And if not, what do we do? But let's see where the lottery balls fall first. I don't, I mean, what's the aggressive move for them? What's the other, what's the big move? I mean, if I would poke around on things like just, you know, it's not just Giannis or stand pat, right? Like there's a bunch of middle ground stuff. Like, are there, I'd have to go through the rosters. Are there guys we could pick off, you know, that are a little bit better than one of the guys we have now? Is there like a Durant? Like, is that interesting to us at all?

We mentioned Jaylen Brown before. That's a little high priced, but just is, are there smaller moves I can do around the fringes? 'Cause I don't, you know, and McCollum, I think would like to go back there and there's gotta be a number that works. He was so good for them.

Yeah, I would say they probably, needs some size and a point guard who could learn under the tutelage of returning free agent CJ McCollum. And there's a ton of point guards in this draft and they're gonna end up with somebody good. So we agree, wouldn't do much there. Portland's a little more interesting. Denny is at $13 million in next season and $12 million the year after that, which is just probably the best contract in the entire league. Right? I would even have that over the Pritchard who's making like $7 million a year. They have Holiday at 34 and 37. They have Green at 34 and 36. They have Sharp 90 for 4 and Kamara 81 for 4. And they have Dame 13 and 14. And they have Scoot and Clingan still on rookie deals. So they don't— they're going to be a tax team next year and maybe even like bumping toward the second tax if they spend. They have all their picks from 27 to 30. They have a Milwaukee first swap. Swap. They get the best one out of Boston or Milwaukee in '29 and another Milwaukee swap in '30. So they have stuff to trade and they have an owner who is already getting stories written about him every day for how cheap he is.

So I don't know what to make of this. And he doesn't like it.

I don't know if— well, at first I heard he doesn't care.

Then who likes it? Who likes being called cheap? Well, that—

but the first wave of news was he doesn't care. He reads it all and he doesn't care. And then he— then he's being defended by the GM. Joe Cronin's talking about, it's just not accurate what, what the— what he's portrayed. Look, the stories have not been refuted. Like, the guys were in the freaking lobby because they couldn't get late checkouts. Like, that's the thing that happened.

Um, he does care. He paid for subs the other day for everybody. Everybody got a roast beef sub.

I don't like roast beef. Um, I'll take a turkey. Turkey over roast beef. Yeah, turkey.

Roast beef and turkey. And he even had a couple tunas.

Yeah, I don't, you know, there's this Giannis noise that's out there.

I started the noise a month ago and then found out that Giannis didn't want to go to the West Coast. I don't— Giannis wants to go to the East Coast. I don't really know.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm struggling to wrap my brain around that one. Yeah, I don't like— they're a weird team because does anyone want Jeremy Grant's contract? Even Drew Holiday was spectacular when he was healthy this year. The player option in '27-'28 is pretty pricey. I gotta figure out Scoot. Scoot's extension eligible. It's, it feels, I mean, every team like Portland is just facing the same dilemmas. Like, yeah, we're pretty good. We, we're, we're a young rising team with a lot of assets. We don't have anyone on our team nearly as good as anyone that Oklahoma City and San Antonio has at the top of their roster. How are we gonna ever compete with those two teams and our, how do we get there? And I don't know. I don't know what the answer is for Portland other than I do like that they're building around this defense, defense, defense identity and like we're at least gonna make things hard for everybody we play. Someone else— I like where they are.

I don't really understand the Dame contract at all, why they did it, why they paid him for a year not to play. That was weird. But for the most part, I'm fine with the Jrue contract. It's 2 years. Yeah, he's good. Next year. And then the final years didn't expire, and that's fine. Grant's a little tougher. So we don't think this is like a let's go nuts and get somebody awesome team. This could be another Durant destination, by the way.

I mean, I, I, I think the Durant price point might not be that high if he does get traded. And I don't know that he is gonna get traded. Like, does Houston have to trade him?

Well, let's, they were next on my what do you do? KD at 44 and 46. Shengun at 35, 37, 39, and Jabbar is at 23, 22, 24. They have FVV for 25 next year. Finney-Smith, 39 for the next 3. Adams for 2 more in double figures. And Adams and Capella are basically 20 and 18 the next 2 years. Then they have a Thompson extension and they have Reed Sheppard. But the, the thing with them, they have some really nice picks. They're gonna have that swap with Brooklyn next year. They're gonna have the Phoenix first, they have their own first, and they have a Phoenix-Dallas swap in '29. The Brooklyn one, I think we have to start really thinking about Brooklyn as a team that might do some dramatic stuff this summer. Because anytime we've seen a team with cap space in the position of this pick could come back to haunt us, they usually get a little more aggressive. Heading into that season, right? Which made me wonder, like, could they be a destination for pick somebody who had, had an ugly playoff exit?

I think absolutely they could. I mean, they've been rumored in the honest, like, on the fringes of the honest thing, and everyone has been like, well, what would the— I mean, including me have said, why would Giannis go there? Who is he playing with? And I don't know the answer to that question other than I, the Nets probably think if we get Giannis, we can get somebody else. We have infinite flexibility, tons of picks. You know, when Sean Marks first got there and they were just in the, in so deep in the hole of picks owed to Boston and other places, they, they didn't do the thing where they got aggressive because they didn't control their pick and we have to save face a little bit. They, they did the opposite and just ate it as a sunk cost. And I wonder if they have the appetite to do that again. I suspect that you will be right and they'll try to be a little bit more aggressive than that. 'Cause that, that pick, it's a big asset and they've got the Phoenix stuff coming as well. Yeah, the Rockets, you know, there's an argument to be made that they should just sit tight and see what VanVleet looks like, see what the team looks like with VanVleet, Durant, Steven Adams, keep the pick space what it is and just take, take another shot at it next year.

Or you can even go further and, and maybe go, you know what, we aren't contenders and we're not gonna really have a chance here with San Antonio and Oklahoma City and even Minnesota. Maybe we should zag the other way. We have these picks coming, we got a bunch of young players. Reduce the expectations. Hey, does anybody want VanVleet on expiring? Does anybody want, you know, this pretty decent Adams contract even though he gets hurt every year? Is anyone interested in Durant? You just zag.

I think that's a, I mean, the, the 3 paths they have to me are stand pat, trade Durant and or VanVleet in a, in a, in deals that sort of just reset your timeline a little bit about around the young guys, or find the home run superstar. We're all in now. We trade Sengun plus picks plus whatever for Giannis or whoever else becomes a available. And I think the whoever else becomes available thing is a big wildcard in that. 'Cause other people, depending on what happens in the playoffs, will become, I mean, we've already seen, we talked about it in part one, Denver basically letting the world know everybody but Jokic, like our phones are open. So that means Jamal Murray, who else would be, I mean, not, I don't think Denver wants to trade Jamal Murray, but the fact that his name is omitted from the do not ask list according to Shams. Um, is interesting. And, but to be clear, Shams didn't say Jamal Murray's name. He just said anybody but Jokic, which obviously includes Jamal Murray. So there'll be other guys like that depending on how the playoffs go.

Yeah, there's, you could get like a Durant, Van Vliet's expiring and some draft stuff for Murray on paper makes sense. I don't know why either team would would want to trade with each other in the West. And if I'm, if I'm trading Murray, I probably want 2 pieces back. I can't remember if I said this in part 1, but I was meaning to say this to you. If I'm, if I'm Denver, I'm doing nothing. You didn't, you didn't say that.

Oh, I didn't? No.

All right. I'll say it more emphatically. I'm doing nothing. I just had bad luck in a playoff series. I had a weird year. I had Joker playing the best basketball of his entire career, getting hurt. And then Gordon getting hurt twice. And this Minnesota thing just was one of those weird things that happens in the playoffs every once in a while. Only one team can win the title. A lot of teams panic after they don't win the title. I just wouldn't panic with, with what I have. So I'd want to be a little more careful. I'd really want to re-sign Peyton Watson. And even if I have to trade Cam Johnson to make that ha— I don't know why they can't just re-sign Peyton Watson, actually spend some fucking money. 'Cause Cronkies are wealthier than just about anybody. Just spend the fucking money. You have Jokic on your team. But I'm bringing back Watson. I'm bringing back all my guys. I got Cam Johnson as an expiring, and I have a little flexibility, and let's play it out and see where we are in January. That's gotta be the move. I wouldn't panic.

Well, that was good. My counter was gonna be number one. I don't, I just, we talked about this already. I just think you have to assume Aaron Gordon is gonna be hit or miss availability-wise for the rest of his career. Yeah.

It's 13th year of his career. This is who he is now.

And so I don't, I've gotta build my team with that in mind. And counter number 2 is Payton Watson. I think they have to bring him back and that's gonna cost you, it's gonna cost you money, which we agree it, it would be great if they just paid and they've ducked the apron and stuff before. I don't think that's likely. And so they're gonna have to pay something to get off of Christian Brown or Cam Johnson. And they already owe some significant draft assets out the door to Oklahoma City of all teams in 2 separate drafts. So I don't, you know, it'll be interesting.

Which is another reason why they're gonna be trying to stack really good. Christian Brown, I don't really understand. I thought the extension was too pricey, but it was also in the range of all these other guys that he was at least in the ballpark of that were getting between low 20s and 25, 26. I don't understand why he was so bad. Like, how did he just lose the ability to play offense? And also, why did he stop being a shutdown guy on defense?

I don't know that he was ever a shutdown guy on defense. Well, he was their shutdown guy though.

You know what I mean? Right. Like he was the guy they would put on the other team's best perimeter guy and it wasn't glaringly bad like it was this year. He couldn't guard anybody in that series.

He's, I think he's just because of the way their team is built and how Gordon has aged and been injured, I think he's just tasked with a role that he's not quite up to. He's a good defensive player, not a great one. And it all comes down 30% on threes, like 30% on threes and he missed half the season. Right. Like that's, And, and I do think the Watson thing, although he shot it really well from 3 this year, especially from the corners, the 2 of them playing together, is that gonna, how viable is that gonna be? Because that's your best defensive lineup is the 2 of them plus Gordon. Is that, they, they barely played those 3 together all season. But I, to me, Watson, if, if there's a, if there's a number that makes sense for all parties, and I don't know if Peyton Watson is like actually itching to go to a place where he would have a bigger role. Like, you know, the Lakers are gonna be rumored until the end of time. But I, I want, I want that guy back on my team.

And they still are in the driver's seat with it. Yeah. They can match any offer. Yeah. And we, I don't remember the last time somebody just stole a restricted free agent with some crazy offer. You have to go back to like the Jeremy Lin, Omer Asic era to, to, for the creativity. I just, I, Peyton Watson and Gordon together as injuries, not as impactful from a talent standpoint as Edwards and Dusumu and defense.

You could just, you could just stop at Edwards, but yeah, include the other guys too.

Obviously not as, but what was interesting about the series was Denver couldn't replace what Gordon gave them at all. Minnesota was somehow able to patch together, you know, they, they lost the 3-point shooting completely by losing all those guys, but they were somehow able to patch together the defense and the rim attack with all of the backups for those guys. Denver couldn't replace anything Gordon did, and that was what sunk them. You know? So that, so to your point, like, yeah, you can't count on him anymore, but I also don't know who else they could bring in that could do 75% of what he does.

You just have to hope that Watson, although a much different player stylistically on both ends of the floor, just gives you enough pop and enough size to mimic it. And that Gordon still has enough in the tank for a big playoff run here and there. But yeah, the Minnesota thing, man, you can't give them enough credit. They got the big Iowa game. Nas Reid was really good. Conley, Conley was good. Shannon massive in the, in the elimination game. They just, you know, got contributions from everyone. There was almost a, there was a Jalen Clark, Jokic near fight in that game, which is, you know, it is interesting that the hockey mentality, start a fight with the other team's best player.

Well, hope he fights back.

I, it's part that, but it is every time it's going bad for Denver, there seems to be a Jokic event in which he's a participant in, sometimes not the initiator, but sometimes yes, the initiator. But I, I don't really know what to make of that.

What did you think of of the 48-hour celebration that Jokic got bounced in round 1.

Was there, was that, who was celebrating?

A lot of people, a lot of people were psyched that all of the Jokic stuff just had a giant fork slammed into it. I thought it was interesting.

I mean, it was, he had a, he had a bad series. Like he just, he did, like Gobert ate his lunch for a lot of the series. His jumper wasn't there. His defense wasn't good enough. It was a bad series for him. It's, it was his, it was his first real postseason clunker against a team that has their number at this point.

The 3-point shooting was bad. I went back and I looked at his, I went back and I looked at his, his, just his stats in '23 when they won, when they went 16-4 and, and basically rolled through everybody. His stats were unbelievable that year. That was like one of, he was like 31, 14, and 10. and he shot like 47% from 3. And you know, it was, it's, you look at that and you're like, oh, his stats are still pretty good this year, but compared to where he was, they weren't. So the question for me is, at age 31, did, has he moved into a slightly different echelon of himself as a playoff guy? If the 3-point shooting is just not gonna be reliable anymore.

I'm not, I'm not going there. I think he still has plenty of time left in his prime and The 3-pointer.

I mean, that's how I feel, but it's a question now.

The 3-pointer is a fickle animal, right? And so you, let's say they sneak out that round, maybe he has a hot round the next round. I, I don't worry too much about that. I, I, it, it was eye-opening that he didn't have the same level of answers for Gobert that he's had previously in any, in any, like in the post on the pick and roll and anything. He just didn't have rhythm to his game against Gobert and that we had just not seen him run into a matchup like that before.

When teams don't think he could make the 3-pointer, I think it changes how they play him, what they want him to do. And I just think Minnesota was super comfortable with it. One thing did happen from that series, forgot to tell you. I had to drop Joker in my pyramid. Wow. Couple spots, 2 spots. Okay.

Yeah. Where, what, what does that mean?

Where is he? So there's this center right at the end of level, the top level, the Pantheon. There's 4 centers clustered together and I've been moving them around. I'm the only one who sees the list. That's not like I'm announcing it, but, uh, it's Hakeem and Shaq and Joker and Moses. I think he's right there with Moses and I think you could, I have him, I have Joker 14, Moses 15. You could talk me into flipping it, but I think Hakeem and Shaq have to be above him at this point, unless he can rally back with, uh, with some sort of other playoff thing. Like, though, only one Finals appearance, one title. Even Moses got to two Finals. It's hard. It's hard. You're, you're, you're too tight back to back for Hakeem. And when you're in the top 15, you start to be measured by different crazy highest possible level things. You know, Hakeem in '95, Wins the back-to-back title and just beats every, every team he beats is awesome. Every center he goes against is awesome. He just destroys everybody. And Joker probably needs one of those, I think, to move up.

Well, there's, there's a lot of time, a lot of time left, but I'll tell you, we're all winners though. I'll tell you, those, those top 2 teams in the West are just like, there's always injuries and things go sideways and things are, windows are never open as long as you think they're gonna be open and finances and all that. But it's hard to see a world where the Thunder and the Spurs are not pretty continuously awesome for, let's just say, 5 years. Like, we don't have to go too crazy. We don't have to say 10 years, 15 years, whatever. But like, barring a catastrophic injury, which could happen, we don't want it to, but it, it just seems unlikely that they are gonna be anything but like 58+ win teams for the next 5 years.

Well, that's why for the Nuggets, the question is I'm just studying that '22 Warriors title run. Okay. That was a team. It seemed like their window closed and then it didn't, and they had this transcendent player. A lot of weird shit happened in the league that year. There were a couple injuries, there was a couple upsets, and all of a sudden they just swooped in and took it. Could we keep this nucleus together and hang around and hope for a similar situation? The answer would be yes. So that's why I don't, I don't think you can panic. I think you gotta keep it together. Um, before we go, you wanna tell us about your cameo on an Apple TV show?

Uh, sure. I was on, uh, Your Friends and Neighbors, uh, season 2, episode 5. Uh, a show I watch. I'll talk about a little more, uh, this week, but, uh, if, but it was delightful and I had to—

so it's up now. People can watch you in a scene.

People can watch me and OG Anunoby together in a scene at a party. It's a house party scene. One of the people who watch the show know one of the characters is a retired NBA star. Yeah. And so he's hosting a party, and they decided to populate it with random NBA people. And one of the producers, shout out Jamie, is just a longtime fan, listener, and was like, "Let's write Zach Lowe a role and get him in here." And I spent a day in a mansion in Long Island last year.

You have been like somebody who got murdered at the beginning of the episode. Like, just, you could have been a dead body lying in your own blood.

Look, there was a— there were a lot— we had a little viewing party at our house on Friday, and, uh, I don't know if you saw the episode. There's—

I haven't seen it yet.

Even, even by, um, even by the standards of the show, there's a lot of racy material in, in this one. And they're like, wait, you couldn't have— you couldn't have been like the random Amanda-Pete love interest for one episode I'm like, I— no, I could not. I— that was not— that was not going to be my role on this one.

Uh, not negotiate that one with the wife. All right, well, it was fun.

The whole cast was awesome. They were so fun. It was super fun. They made it easy because, you know, when you're a fish out of water like that, it's just— it's a little like, do I belong here? Is anyone like— what do I do? And they were all super nice.

Well, congratulations. Now I can introduce you as your Friends and Neighbors co-star Zach Yeah, I'm an actor now. I'm an actor acting. You sign up for SAG? I guess I could. Now you get fees, all that shit. All right, Zach Lowe, thanks for hanging out for the double pod. We're probably not always going to do this, but with two Game 7s, we thought it would be pretty good. Neither of them were. It's fine. This round 2 should be fun. I'm looking forward to Knicks-Sixers. Thanks to Cahal and Eduardo as well. Thanks to everybody behind the scenes at The Ringer. Thanks to Netflix. There's Something About Mary coming tomorrow on the rewatchables, and then Zach's back on Tuesday on his podcast breaking down a whole bunch of stuff. Good to see you, buddy.

Always fun. Always fun.

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