Transcript of NBA Lottery Karma Rankings, Jaylen’s Future, and a Blistering Wolves-Spurs Series With Nick Wright New

The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables. On Monday we did There's Something About Mary, uh, which is also on Netflix. It was me and CR and Sean, the, uh, the OG crew. Had a great time, lot of fun discussions. You can go check that out on Spotify, on Netflix, wherever you got your podcasts. Uh, for next week, just giving you the heads up now, we did Tropic Thunder. So that is coming on Monday. I think it's on Netflix. I'm pretty sure that's why, why we want to do it, but pretty easy movie to find. Uh, almost 20 years since it came out and a really fun one to revisit. So that's happening. If you like narrative podcasts, we put up the last episode of La Gata. Uh, that went up on Tuesday if you missed it. Please go check it out. Great one to power walk, drive in the car with, uh, really, really good. Really proud of this one. So, uh, check that out whenever you have a chance. Coming up on this podcast, the one and only Nick Wright is here.

We're gonna talk about the San Antonio-Minnesota series. We're gonna talk about my Celtics and what the hell happened and what's happening with Jaylen Brown. Does he even want to be a Celtic? We're gonna talk about, uh, LeBron. Are we evaluating him correctly in the ringer? Nick was Upset that we, we probably weren't a lot on the San Antonio-Minnesota series, which we both feel like something really crazy might be happening there. And then last but not least, I do this every year. Usually we do it on a Sunday, but the lottery is on a Sunday this year and Zach Lowe's gonna be at it. So instead we're doing the lottery karma rankings today, and that was the last part of this podcast, uh, trying to figure out who should win the NBA lottery just from a karma standpoint. So that is all coming up next. We're gonna take a break and then Pearl Jam. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. It's been a wild playoff run, not over yet. FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you, the basketball fan.

FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players, plays during NBA postseason. Build a same-game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or Try live betting and jump into the action right after tip-off, whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21+ select states or 18+ DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. All right, we're recording with Nick Wright about an hour or so after you did First Things First. I like when you're a little groggy. I feel like I have an advantage, you know. You, you've basically played a whole game. Now you're doing a doubleheader. This is good for me.

Correct. Which is why, you know, I, I have a light rule that if I'm potting after 6:00 PM Eastern, I drink red wine while I'm doing it. But I really, I need to be, have, you know, all my sensibilities to be able to combat whatever stuff you throw at me. So I, I have a big glass of pink lemonade, a backup bottle of water. I'm going straight sober to deal, 'cause I don't know how you're, I don't really know the state you're in. This is, you're the Celtics who I picked to win the title. And I know now you're like, ah, they were never gonna win the title. You thought they could maybe win the title. They're out. And so I don't know how you're doing.

Terrible.

Yeah. Yeah. Excited. I mean, the Lakers are still playing. The Celtics are at home.

It's a catastrophe. I woke up at 4 in the morning and I was just lying in bed staring at the ceiling. I just woke up. I went for a power walk at like 7:30 in the morning, was walking around, I was talking to my dad. 2 days after the game, still furious at everybody. My dad, this is the maddest he's ever been after a series.

Yeah, I mean, Ron Harper Jr. not gonna save the season, it turns out. I, I, so I'm— here's the thing I think I'm most stunned by. You could argue of every—

I didn't know we were leading with this.

Sorry.

Well, you—

sorry.

No, it's all right. Go.

You, you could argue of every contender in NBA history, there was not one better prepared for, oh shit, our best player's out for Game 7, what are we gonna do, than this year's Celtics.

Yeah.

Who had 65 games of that scenario So I don't under— I didn't understand that from Missoula, the starting lineup. And I— how do you grade 4 years of Missoula? Year 2, crush everyone en route to a championship, and every other year, horrifying defeat as huge favorite.

Yeah. Did you see the numbers? It's like +500, +900, and +1,000, I think, were the 3.

Yes.

Something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's real. It's, and so I don't, you know, and, and then, and you, and you did a very, I feel like you don't want them to break up Tatum and Brown, but you acknowledging that it might happen really helped the conversation get going. So it was journalistically, I respect it even though it caused pain for you. But I think Jaylen Brown, I think Jaylen Brown, I think there is a very interesting trade where Atlanta sends a bunch of stuff, including Milwaukee's own pick back to Milwaukee. Atlanta gets Jaylen Brown, who would fit with them perfectly.

Who's from there?

And Giannis goes to Boston. That probably makes more sense than Giannis for Jaylen Brown straight up. 'Cause why, why would Milwaukee necessarily want to do that? That I think for Boston's a really interesting possibility here.

I have it in my notes. I mean, we, we hinted at it on, on the Sunday pod. As we were doing the Sunday pod, Zach and I, Jalen was doing this Twitch stream. It did not go over well with the fan base. I'll just say that. Look, he's— it's a free country. You do what you want. But over and over again, the theme from him this year has been this has been the most fun season he's ever had.

Time of my life.

This is— and even the Game 7 stuff of that was the pace we should have played all along. I liked how— I like the style we had that game. And it's just very— it's becoming very clear to me, and I think to a lot of other people, that he wants his own team. And that's fine. But I think we can accommodate this. The trade you mentioned is the most logical trade because you left out one thing. They also have an almost $28 million trade exception, so they can trade with Milwaukee, and they can also take a contract back and actually save Milwaukee money because they got under the tax this year. They can actually go over the tax, right? So they have Kuzma for one year left, like '22. You could just take that as part of the trade and absorb it, or you could take my— hey, did you not like the Miles Turner experiment? We'll take him off your hands. He fits in that thing too.

The trade— who has the trade exception, Boston or Atlanta?

Boston. Okay, so Boston could basically get Giannis and a year of Kuzma.

Yep.

Send Jalen out. Atlanta sends, you know, Reece O'Shea, Dyson Daniels, and the, whatever that pick is. It's Reece.

Well, so yeah. And the thing is, it's super valuable in this regard cuz we'll see what that Atlanta pick for, you know, we're, I know we'll talk lottery later. They have potentially a really good pick this year, but they, since they have Milwaukee's 27th pick, Milwaukee being able to get that back and be like, all right, next year we're gonna suck. And reap the benefits of it before we get going. And I think Jalen would be great with Atlanta. I think that would—

I think you have him and Jalen Johnson, you bring McCollum back.

Yeah, that's something. It's—

here's— were you a Wire guy?

Yeah, of course.

So I used to do this thing when I had my column back when my fingers worked about Durant and Westbrook, about wondering if the Stringer-Avon thing was going to happen and bring them down. Right? And I was writing about this, and it really did not go over well with, I think, either of them or anyone in OKC. But the whole point was like the balcony scene in The Wire where Avon comes back, but Stringer's kind of been running the show, and they start side-eyeing each other a little bit. My fear with this Celtics season was that they were— it's a— it was a little like The Wire thing where Stringer was running the show, in this case Jalen. Tatum comes back like Avon. It's like, okay guys, we're a partnership again. But Stringer got a taste of running the show. I didn't really fully think until that Twitch stream that this is kind of what Jaylen wants. So I want them to stay together, but maybe this is just how the league goes.

So I want to talk about the Twitch stream for a minute.

Yeah.

Okay. So, because I find Jaylen to be both of these guys, Tatum, I find, I found Tatum's openness and vulnerability in his recovery process, one of the most remarkable and endearing things from a star athlete I've ever seen. Him flatly saying before the New York game, yeah, you know, I, I, it's in my head, but I need to get over it. Like being back on the court, like, I thought it was stunning, his approach there. And I thought his recovery that obviously hit a wall here at the worst time was remarkable.

Well, and then I would also add just him traveling with the team everywhere and being kind of needing to be on the team and to be involved and watching them and being a part of it. Other guys just would disappear. He didn't.

He's the blueprint now, I think, for how you deal with something like this.

I agree.

Jalen, I find fascinating because I truly believe if all 450 NBA guys took an IQ test, bet Jalen's in the top couple percent.

Yeah.

I think Jalen is a very thoughtful guy and a guy whose off-court causes I think are really important and does like, he just is a smart, thoughtful guy.

Well, and also the stuff he does in the city of Boston is the highest possible level of an athlete's relationship with the city. That's another thing you have to think about if you're trading him.

Right. So all of that is like true. And here's what's also true. He has some of the wildest takes I've ever heard. The part of the Twitch stream where it was, yeah, there was basically a conspiracy against me from the league because I've criticized the refs. Are you serious?

Yeah.

And where he's like, yeah, the refs confirmed it to me because before the game they said, we're watching. Like, buddy, that's not because you criticize him, it's 'cause the other team's like, hey, he pushes off. So they're letting you know they flagged it to us. Him, the, the fact that he is that smart and yet thought it would go over well to be like, yeah, I know I've won a championship here and been to 6 conference finals, but the year where my running mate was out with the torn Achilles and we flamed out a 3-1 lead in round 1, best year ever. Even if you feel that way, that ain't going to go over well. And then the decision to do it and to do it with those 3 dudes just standing there, none of it made any sense. And so I'm like, I know he's a smart, thoughtful guy, yet he's doing this, which is—

Well, but you have to flip that around. So why is he doing it?

Correct.

And he is a smart guy. And I think that's my takeaway after that was he's probably okay with moving on. And you forgot to mention with that thing about the best year of his career, this is my dad. I was talking to my dad, was like angry for my dad, but then started talking about how the NHL lottery is tonight and if the Maple Leafs fall to 6, we get their pick. So he, he's moving on. But, uh, but my dad was like, we won the title 2 years ago. We were one of statistically the best teams of all time. We ran through it. He was a huge part of it. He won Finals MVP and Conference Finals MVP. How is that not the most fun year of his career? Like, my dad was like, I just don't understand. Like, I would love for him to explain how this was. And I, Jalen was saying like, look, everyone counted us out. There was this adversity. They were calling us the gap year Celtics and we banded together. But the way the season ended, there's no way that could be your most fun year.

Correct. And it'd be one thing if Scottie Pippen said, hey, '94 was the most gratifying year of my career. I was always number 2. Jordan won every award always. And in '94 we overachieved, we had a great season, we won a round. That'd be, that'd be one thing.

I think that would also be insane.

I, well, it would. I, I understand that, that you probably wouldn't say it, but I would get it more than if Scottie had in '93 won Finals MVP and, and people thought he was awesome. Like, it was—

well, how about let's say you get hit by a bus tomorrow And you're recovering for 9 months. And as this is happening, the first things first has to revolve around Wilds.

That's what I said.

And all Wilds is doing is like, this is the most fun I've ever had doing TV. People would be like, whoa, he must hate Nick Wright.

What's going on? That's the exact comp I said. I said, I do the podcast. I do what's right with Nick Wright.

Say that, by the way.

Yeah. No. Well, so I do that podcast with my son.

Yeah.

And I said to— I said that to him this morning. I was like, if I got, you know, pneumonia and was in the hospital for 2 months and you were on a yacht, you were in the Hantavirus, you were on a cruise ship, exactly, you were stuck on a cruise ship for 6 months and you're doing the pod without me, and I keep seeing these clips of you saying to the producers, boys, I don't think the show's ever been better than right now, I'd be like, what the fuck? Buddy, I'm trying to get back. But that's what it was. And you said throughout the year, and I think it's right, he was like 10% too happy about how it was going.

Yeah, he almost needed like a crisis consultant to say, hey, every 3 weeks, don't forget to talk about your brother JT and how great it's going to be when he comes back. But you could feel it in the playoff series because they did slow down. They did play a different style. I was talking about on my podcast, everyone I did, I was like, I don't really like how they look. I don't— something's different. We're not using the bench. And this is, you know, some Missoula stuff. But like I said on Sunday, I think they were using that Sixers series as a tinkering lab for the Knicks series, not realizing Philly was gonna blossom into this. I mean, Philly might not win another game in the playoffs. This might, this might have been a 5-day Philly run that is just this crazy blip, right?

But yeah, I mean, that's, game 1 was obviously a disaster for them.

Yeah. You knew they were gonna lose, right?

That's the thing. I, I, I think they can win the series, but they were drawing dead to win that game after the 3-1 comeback. We'll see what they look like in game 2. They also might be, when, if Embiid's healthy, that's a legit, really good top 4 guys. Like Paul George playing the way he is, Embiid, Maxey, and Edgcomb. That's legit. They don't have a bench, but they, they have those guys. Here's my question for you on Boston before we get to the stuff you wanted to get to.

Well, I have, and I have a Giannis thing we should talk about too, but go.

Okay, let's do— because obviously the hot button thing is the threes, all the threes, all the threes.

Yeah.

Do you think that, that is— while when our pal Darryl did that against the Rockets and did it— or did— I'm sorry, did that against the Warriors with the Rockets. What was underlying all that was we're the underdog. We need— we are not— they have more talent. We need to add more variance to the equation. Are the Celtics underselling their position in the Eastern Conference By adding so much variance to these playoff series, should that be the strategy if you make the Finals against the Thunder, but not the strategy in round 2 last year against the Knicks? Yeah. Or round 1 this year against a Sixers team without Embiid? Like, it, it felt like an underdog NFL team that's like, we're onside kicking every time back in the day, or we're going for trick plays, but you're not the underdog.

Right, where they're doing 5 wide receiver every down, never running the ball ever.

And so that's my question for Missoula. Like, can you throttle it down when you have the better team and then throttle it up when you do need to add the variance because the other— because you're overmatched? And he's just never done it. It's just all gas at all times.

In '24, it made more sense because the players they had were so good, and they had Horford and Porzingis and Jrue Holiday.

Yep.

3 guys who weren't on this team. They, it felt like they had to do it a little more with the math before Tatum got back. But when Tatum got back, I think they were trying to change it a little bit. And yet the habits in the games didn't reflect it. They shot in game 2, they shot 53s. I think that was with no Embiid. I was just the coaching strategy stuff. And it's weird cuz like, I think Mazzulla's a really good coach. I, I just think he kind of whiffed on the series, but I, I don't think it was Doesn't make me think they should fire him or anything. I just think he, I think he misread it. 'Cause I think the way to beat the Sixers, especially those first couple games without Embiid, is like, you just gotta stop Maxie. Like, we have all these wings. You have, you know, Kugel, you have Walsh, Shireman. Let's throw Derrick White on him. All, let's just not let him go, get going ever. And instead they're like, hey, I wonder if Vucevic can hop out in time on these threes. It's like, I, I can tell you right now, he can't.

This is definitely not happening. So yeah, but your bigger question is, do they need to game the math like this? We saw it in San Antonio, Minnesota last night. We're taping this on, on a, on a Tuesday. You know what's really nice sometimes are like 12-foot Julius Randle, you know, bang into the body shots just to keep going. You know what's really nice for Philly? Like Embiid just getting nice easy 8 to 10-footers and you need a balance of that and they lost the balance.

And there is one last thing before we do your Giannis thing. 3 is worth more than 2, but a 1-point lead— the difference between trailing by 1 and leading by 1 in a playoff game is 10 miles wide, and the difference between leading by 1 and leading by 2 is 6 inches wide.

Yeah.

So when you had 6 possessions in a row down 1 point in the 4th quarter of a Game 7, I don't give a shit if I can be up 2. I just want to be up. I just want Philly to have the ball. Yeah. I want Philly to be like, oh no, did we blow it? And it's what we have seen. And I just think teams have screwed that up. And I think I am, I'm stunned Boston lost the way they did. And it does make you wonder, like you said, that Giannis would fix a lot of this just by virtue of the fact he ain't shooting threes.

He is giving you that press and fast breaks.

Yeah.

The problem, I went back and I watched that fourth quarter again and the shots were actually good shots. No, I could see like Jaylen had a couple two-pointers that he just made all year. They were like 12-footers.

Now the one where I forget who, someone falls down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's shooting it right inside the foul line jumper.

Yeah.

Pritchard in the corner. I would bet my life on that shot. He missed it. So you can go into the summer and be like, oh, we, we usually make those shots. But they lost the series in game 2 and game 5. That was when their style went sideways. So the Giannis piece, which I did a whole thing about it, I don't know, maybe 6 weeks ago talking about my fears for trading too much for him because I think he's going into his 14th season, the track record. Is terrible. It's basically like just even guys doing 23 and 10, there's like 4 of them ever. Yeah. Not to mention he's been injured in some capacity, I think every year for the 5 of the last 6, something like that.

Since the title, at least 3 of the years, major injuries.

Lot of miles. And then you think about big guys with, you think about Dwight Howard, the second part of his career. You think about Shaq, the second part of his career. Like big guys, they don't necessarily age in the greatest ways. So I don't think he's worth as much as we, we thought a year and a half ago where it was like, oh my God, you trade everything for that guy. I don't think that's the case. I don't think teams are gonna approach it that way.

But you would trade Jaylen Brown straight up.

Yeah. I think that I, my point is I think the Celtics have enough to get him without gutting the entire whatever, because I think his value's dropped.

Especially because here's the other thing, the reason why I think the Celtics have enough to get him, because a Shingun package looks less attractive today.

No question. How about Evan Mobley looks less attractive than it did a year ago? He's the same guy he was a year ago, right?

And so who you're competing with and how that now Atlanta, Putting together the package we are discussing and cutting Boston out, I guess, is interesting if they decide that's the move they want to make.

Well, but that's, that's gonna be this Sunday and we're talking lottery a little bit later. Sunday, if Atlanta gets into that top 4, they're out of the J— I'd rather have the top 4 pick than Jalen. I think it has more trade value.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, there's no question. Jalen's making $60 million a year and you could have Cam Boozer or I love Caleb Wilson. I actually have Caleb Wilson higher on my board. I'll show you.

Wow.

I have a board. No, I don't. But my fake board, you have those guys for $10 million a year on a rookie contract versus paying Jalen $60. That'd be irresponsible to trade that pick for Jalen, I think.

So yeah, I mean, I feel like, I feel like 4 is where it's interesting. I think top 3 definitively has like this intense value. I don't, No, you, you, you're going to get on board with Caleb Wilson. Okay. All right. I think he's—

I think he is higher than 4 on multiple teams' boards already.

No, but that's what I'm saying. It's— I'm— what I'm— I agree with you on that. I don't— I'm not as in love with Boozer as everyone else. I think if the draft—

do you do the thing I do when you're watching the playoffs and you try to imagine the guy in the game you're watching? I was trying to imagine him in the San Antonio-Minnesota game last night. I was like, well, All right. I could see him guarding Randle.

I mean, I know this is going to sound pretty dumb or obvious. You know who Cam Boozer reminds me of? Guy named Carlos Boozer, his dad. That guy that is going to have a really solid 12-year NBA career. I think he's a better passer. Sure. The game's changed. But my point is a guy who I think of all the top prospects, Cam probably has the lowest bust potential, like the least likely to be a bust.

Yeah.

But I think he is also the least likely to be an MVP. Like, and so that's why I'm not as high on him maybe as other guys are.

I would take Caleb second. Now I'm, I've reserved the right to change my mind and 3 more weeks.

So you'd go Travance, Caleb, Peterson?

Yeah.

Peterson's interesting.

I think Caleb's gonna be unbelievable.

I—

that guy, the same thing with Castle was similar where it's just like the guy's too competitive. He's too athletic and he's too competitive. Those guys always win. We see it. Doesn't matter what team it is, what draft, like he's got that. I know what that is. And he's like a combination of like Sean Kemp and Chet. I think he's going to be really special. So I'd, I'd be careful passing on him. But yeah, for the honest thing, if I'm Atlanta now, if I'm in 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, now I could really think about the Jalen thing. 'Cause you think like now I could have, 'cause Jalen Johnson, as much as I like him and I voted for him All-NBA, he's kind of a 1B. I'm not sure he's a 1A. You could feel it in that playoff series. It's not like, hey, clear out guys, I got this. He's not, that's not the type of player he is.

No, he's, his ceiling is, like a better offensive Iguodala, right?

Yeah. Like a guy who's in like a better Jalen Williams. Like that's like his thing.

Yes. A guy who can do everything is a winning player, you know, can def— can definitely be a key part of a championship team. Yes. But if he is your best player, you've got no shot.

No shot.

Just no, no shot of winning a title.

So what would you give up? How, how much would you, how crazy would you get for Giannis?

If I'm what team?

Pick a team. I mean, I think if you're Miami, would you gut everything you had and all your picks? I just wouldn't know.

I know, because I don't know what that achieves. Now all of a sudden Giannis is just in Milwaukee South.

I mean, the Knicks would have been the one that were like, fuck it, we have a window, we got to do this. But the Knicks are going to make the finals, I think. I don't see anybody stopping them.

And also, I don't love any of the Knicks trades. Right.

Like the—

because they traded their picks. No, I— if I were Detroit, would I give up a— you know, I haven't done the trade.

Now it's— that's— you're looking at Duren and all your picks, basically. But I give up Duren and all my picks, and I don't even know if Milwaukee— if that— if that's— I don't know. That's destiny.

Right. If that, if Milwaukee wants it, I think the easiest trade is going, would be the reason I think the Celtics are very live here is 'cause it's so easy.

Yeah.

He and Jalen and Giannis make the same amount of money. You can, you have a third, if you need a third team, Atlanta makes a ton of sense at like, there's just, by the way, you can't cut out New Orleans.

New Orleans might be like, we've always loved Jalen and all of a sudden they're in it.

Like, oh yeah, sure.

They're capable of anything.

Yeah, they are. That's when we do this lottery karma thing. I've got something on that.

Yeah.

The, so I, but no, I agree with you that Giannis is right now the 5th best player in the league and oddly does not have the 5th trade value. No, not at all.

And I think there's teams that are, would maybe be like, we're good. Like OKC, San Antonio. I don't, think those teams would trade for him.

Well, let me hold on. So that's an interesting— San Antonio's an interesting one.

I think San Antonio, they love their culture and their young guys. I don't think they— I think they'd obviously love to win the title this year, but I don't think they'd feel like the season was a failure if they lost.

And they're looking at the long runway, you know, not the season's a failure, but let's just, let's just say Minnesota beats them in 6 and Fox struggles the way he did in Game 1 throughout the series.

Then Fox is the fall guy after the series.

Yes. And added bonus, Wimby gets pushed around a bit like he did in Game 1.

You mean when he shoots 5 for 18 and, and short arms every big shot down the stretch? Like a scenario like that.

And well, and gets, you know, physically pushed around. Like, that's the thing for Wemby is, A, he was exhausted at the end of that game. Right.

Falling down all over the place.

Yeah. He's not used to playing big minutes. And, and he's, so he is doing all that. B, Gobert is strong as hell and Nasri and Julius Randle are strong as hell and they were pushing him around. If I do wonder if San Antonio loses in bad fashion, if they feel like we're, listen, We're not abandoning our future or our plan and we're keeping Harper, Castle, and Wimby, but De'Aaron Fox, another contract, and a bunch of our picks for Giannis. So, you know, so there isn't such a heavy offensive load on Wimby. And oh yeah, by the way, we just become, you know, a better defensive team than OKC like that. That's something I would think about. I would.

I'd be more excited to just play Carter Bryant more next year and ride this out. And I would— Giannis feels like a panic move to me. Like that, like Sam Presti, to me, I always say, what would Sam Presti do? That is a Sam Presti would not do that. He would probably, he would probably look at the Harper situation because we all love Harper. We're going to expound on him. But as like, okay, Fox, Fox was our training wheels. Now we gotta send Fox off. Let's get like another score in that spot. Maybe somebody with a little more size and think about it that way. We, we gotta take a break. I wanna talk about, uh, San Antonio, Minnesota, and, uh, and I think you and I are, are feeling similar about this series.

Perfect.

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Available through PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457. Learn more at paypal.com/paymonthly. The Minnesota Timberwolves, who were such giant underdogs for the series and for the finals, that Nick Wright has a story for us from his trip to Vegas.

Well, okay, so I, so I went to Vegas to see the Benavidez fight.

Who, who is one of the scariest boxers we've had in the last 20 years.

Unbelievable.

He broke the guy's face on Saturday night.

No, he, he destroyed his, he broke his orbital. The, the guy, the guy who he fought, Zurdo, had never been knocked down. Yeah. Much less knocked out. Was a total warrior. And Benavidez just annihilated him. And I, by the way, I had Benavidez by knockout. Nice little ticket with my buddy Nick Schulman, the world's greatest poker player. —no brainer.

That's like an automatic bet.

And but so I'm in Vegas Saturday morning and I'm on my way to the sportsbook, or I'm at the sportsbook to bet Benavidez. And I see the championship odds and I see the, you know, OKC -125, whatever they were at the time. Spurs, whatever. The Lakers at 28 to 1, and then it's 28 to 1. Well, that's because the California people come and they bet the Lakers, but that's still important context for what I'm about to say. Then I see beneath the Lakers, the Lakers who play OKC and Luka is injured, yeah, are 28 to 1. Minnesota is 200 to 1 Saturday morning. Orlando was 400 to 1. This was 12 hours after Orlando played the worst half of basketball in television history. There's never been a televised half of basketball worse than what they did. They're not even gonna make it.

Can we count fictional shows for that? 4 of 37 is worse. Yeah, Saved by the Bell or Fresh Prince. Yeah, we need a fictional basketball.

So I'm like, Orlando's 400 to 1. Yeah, I'm like, what the— I was like, So I, I'm, I'm staring at it and I'm like, hold on. I watched, speaking of Giannis, Giannis suffer this same injury Anthony Edwards did. He missed 7 days, came back for Game 1 of the Finals. Yeah. And averaged 35, 13, and 6. I was like, I think Anthony Edwards might come back sooner than people think. I think that there is just always this weird Specter of injury looming over Wimby. I was like, 200 to 1. I mentioned he's 7 foot 7.

Any, any point he could get hurt.

Correct. I was like, it's 200 to 1. So I'm like, I, I had won in poker the night before, so I'm like, I think I'm gonna put like $1,000 on this. Yeah. I'm texting my buddies. All of a sudden, a couple of my buddies want in, want in, and they're like, hey, see if they'll take $10,000 on it. And I'm like, okay, my guess is— amazing story. I was like, my guess is they won't, but I'm not sharp action. Like, you know what I mean? It's not like they're like, oh, this— like, I come to Vegas to play cards. They see my history. I win a little in poker. I spill it off playing blackjack at 4 in the morning. They don't think all of a sudden I have like, you know, I have inside info.

Yeah, vacuum, vacuum blackjack when they're vacuuming under you. That's giving your money away.

They see on their cards, they're like, my God, we've got this guy, $1,200 in packs of Newports over the last year, and he's in the vacuum hours. So, so I walk to the window and I'm like, hey, oh, and the Derby. And people are betting the Derby. It's a couple hours before the Derby. Yeah. And I say, I'm like, hey, I'd like $10,000 on the Timberwolves to win the title. And the lady pulls it up and she's like, oh, she's like, I'm going to have to get a manager.

She said $9,000. I don't think— I think once it gets to 5 figures, they get freaked out. No.

Well, what she said was any ticket that'll pay out more than a million, which $5,000 would have paid out a million because it's 200 to 1, right? We have to get a— get permission. Oh Jesus. Okay, so I'm just sitting there, people are betting the horses. Ladies like, I think they'll— she's like, I'm sure they'll take at least $5,000 of it. So I'm texting my buddies because we're gonna split this ticket 4 ways. Like, I, you know, here's what it is. I don't know, 5 minutes later, guy comes, he's like, you're good. They printed the ticket. So I have in my possession on the Minnesota Timberwolves— this is unbelievable— $10,000 to win $2,010,000. They were 200 to 1. It's been 3 days. What are they on FanDuel right now, Bill?

They're 25 to 1, 35 to 1. 35 to 1. Great investment.

The ticket right now, the ticket's worth $65,000. I mean, I would never hedge, I'll never sell it, and it'll probably lose, but that's— it was just mispriced. It's like, it's just a mistake. Yeah, just a mistake.

You could at least try to hedge that with OKC.

Like, there's moves you can make. Well, I'll tell you another thing that you will laugh at me about. I have, not from Vegas, but from, you know, a gambling app the day before the playoffs started, $100,000 just of my own money, 150 to 1 on the Los Angeles Lakers to win the title. So all I just need, a Lakers, a Lakers-T-Wolves Western Conference Finals, and I am free rolling. Um, but I, the— I wa— I was watching last night, and I swear, like, the watching Minnesota play so well and then almost blow it and then Champagny have a shot. 'Cause I now think Minnesota's gonna win the series. And had he made that shot, I think they would've lost in 5. Right. I think it would've been a 6-0 sweep.

Stomach punch. Yeah. Yeah. So look, the Celtics had an awful loss on Saturday. My daughter turned 21. I don't like to apologize to my listeners that often. I really regret not studying the Minnesota-San Antonio thing way longer. The Edwards thing's a great point. He, it was basically the same. Yeah, he came back in 9 days. They said it was gonna be 14. He was really only on paper, probably only missing game 1. But the thing I realized last night, I was watching and I was kicking myself. I was trying to think of 21st century Hall of Fame fuck you basketball teams. Just teams that just have fuck you. Yeah. All of everything they're doing, the way they're carrying themselves, everything. And I think the 3 I had were the pre-Melee Pacers, which ended up the fuck you spilled in the crowd. But yeah, that the way they carry the, that first month before the fight, they looked like they were gonna win the title and they looked like a more dangerous, scarier version of the '04 Pistons. The '07 Warriors in the, in the We Believe season. Ironically, Steven Jackson on both of those teams.

Yeah. And I think the 2020 Heat had it too. And it was interesting 'cause when that was the series, I screwed this up a pod before where Dragic got hurt, but there was something about that Heat team that they were just, they carried themselves like dragon slayers. Like, do you watch Survivor? What? No. Oh, there's this Survivor, uh, contestant coach. Who tries to— he calls himself the Dragon Slayer and he tries to carry himself like a fuck you guy and it always backfires on him. There's certain teams that actually carry it and can do it.

Yeah.

And I watched Minnesota, the stuff they said after the game where Shannon's like, I'm going to fucking drive to the basket and Wemby might block some of them. I'm going to keep coming and he can either block them or I'm going to score, but I'm never going to stop coming to the basket. It's like, I think that's exactly how you have to play San Antonio. Keep coming, right?

And you can't, 'cause here's the thing, a blocked shot does not kill a possession as much as a shot clock violation. 'Cause you won't put anything up. Yeah.

You might get the ball back.

One of the biggest shots of the game last night was after a blocked shot. The, I think it was Conley, the corner 3. Shout out Mike Conley, by the way. He'd be, the Rockets could have had him. They probably saved their season. The I Am, I would add maybe to your list the grit and grind Grizzlies who one time— That's another great one. Didn't they? Didn't have their best player for a game. No, they had Tony Allen. Punched someone in the head, right? And then game 6 of a series. That's a great one. So the, the other—

Yeah, the 2011 Grizzlies. I apologize. That's the perfect ad for this.

And, and so I, Here's the thing why I feel so good about Minnesota. I don't think they played great yesterday. They were awful.

Yeah, he was mad after the game.

They were awful from the free throw line. McDaniels was in foul trouble the whole game, so he couldn't do all his shit. Yeah. Ant was just getting back into the flow of it. You could see it, but he ran outta gas at the end and almost blew it. And he only played 25 minutes. Right. And they still, and by the, at some point I think Io is gonna take those Bones Highland minutes and Bones Highland, he hit the 1-3, they took it off, but he's 0 for 6.

Like I just think, and you left out two other things. They have nobody believes in us energy. Like they're like a football team. This is like watching an NFL playoffs. They, yeah. Finch, what he said after the last series. Where he's like, they wanted to play us. Like, that's— this is what they wanted. And that really made us mad. And now this series, same thing, where the Spurs, huge favorites, the darlings. That's one. The other is you don't really realize that sometimes till you're watching it. The Spurs are going to need Carter Bryant to come back and actually play real minutes, or they're going to lose the series because Minnesota has a physicality advantage. With Randle and with Edwards. And to me, San Antonio last night, 3 guards, Vassell and Wemby, it's not going to cut it. They're not big enough.

Well, and there's 2 other kind of— and I'm not like an X's and O's guy, but it's very obvious. There's 2 things that jumped out to me before the series and now after watching game 1. When, when Gobert's on the court, he really is gonna give Wimby trouble on offense. However, him being on the court fully unleashes Wimby on defense because Gobert's never gonna be anywhere but by the basket. So Wimby can just play free safety and block everything. However, when Gobert is off the court, they can mitigate Wimby a bit. Because they can go 5 out, right? They can go 5 out and, and 'cause everybody can shoot. So that's the first.

Well, and then also multiple physical guys that can come in. You just want to beat him up. He's 22. He's never been in, played 10 straight weeks of playoffs like this.

Dude, Zach, I listened to Zach today. Zach said last night was the 3rd most minutes he's ever played in any game in his career. It was 40. Wow. Wasn't 46, it was 40. And at the end he looked a little— the final possession, Derek Harper gets the rebound, gives it to Wimby, Wimby gives it right back to him. Like, I know, and he was gassed.

And then didn't remember the Denver, the Saturday game against the back and forth with Joker. Same thing happened. He got gassed in the OT, right? The game of the year.

And by overtime he's out, he's just out of it. And you are, how many elbows to the ribs, and he had those bruised ribs, which at the very end of the year, is he going to have from Gobert, Randle, and Nasri?

How about how many guys going full speed driving into him, knees hitting his legs, elbows, push-offs? I think their whole game plan is to beat the shit outta him, which, which is Which is why they couldn't blow that first game, Minnesota.

They couldn't have done all that and then lose.

Well, that's my 5-game rule where it's like if you lose that game, now you basically have to win 5 games in a 7-game series. You're not going to win. You have to win.

Correct. And I just think, Ant, I'm going to say one other thing that I think is psychologically just true. And this is a problem probably for a lot of Kevin Durant teams, to be totally honest. The best teams take on the personality of their best player, whether he wants them to or not. Like the, my, my team, the Kansas City Chiefs, you know why there's never any bulletin board material? Because Mahomes is the most boring press conference there's ever been and everyone just falls, falls in line. Brady was like this too, right? Brady, there's, The, the Thunder— Shay is kind of a unique personality. I don't want to say corny, but whatever it is, he's got his own thing. Everybody's like, you know what, we're doing group photos, we're doing group commercials, we're, we're doing that. Ant is so goddamn fearless. Yeah. And confident that not only does the whole team take on the personality, you know who I think it is great for? Is Gobert, who— Gobert is just like, man, I've just been a fucking punchline. Everybody make me— my own team. When I was in Utah, it seemed like sometimes my own teammates didn't like me.

The— I— the, the inside the NBA makes fun of me. Draymond chokes me. I don't get the respect. And now I started COVID, right? Yeah, well, that was— I mean, that wasn't great. That was, that was not great. And now It's like, I've got the toughest crew. And guess what? Joker, come deal with me. Wimby, this is for— Gobert is going to be in the Hall of Fame. And this is the—

Everyone's in the Hall of Fame.

Could be the— what'd you say?

Everyone makes the Hall of Fame now.

Right. I understand. But 4-time defensive player of the year. No, he's going to make it. This is the moment where he can really puff his chest out and doing it against, like, I don't know if Wimby's his protégé, but they're both French. He's known him since he was a kid. I don't know. I think Minnesota's dangerous.

There's a little big brother, little brother thing to that. When you know somebody when they were 12 and you were 25 or whatever it is, you're always going to kind of see them that way. What you just described with the go bear thing with Ant, It's one of my favorite basketball things. The best one ever for this was Bill Lambert, who ends up on a team eventually with Mahorn and then Isaiah, who was probably the toughest guy of the '80s, even though he was 6'2". And that whole team. And then all of a sudden Lambert's like, by 1990, Lambert's like, I think I can fight Charles Barkley and gets like, he's throwing actual punches with Barkley. He's clotheslining dudes that, that, yeah. You know, when you could do that when you had those guys around you. And then in the early '90s, those guys weren't around him. And what happened? The Knicks, they come in, the Riley Knicks, and they basically just snatch their souls like a boxer.

But it's so authentic from Ant, Jaden, and Julius Randle. Those guys are like, we're badasses and we're going to beat you up, that it is infectious for everybody.

Randle and the Joker fight, it seemed like Randle was gonna— or their near fight, seemed like Randle wanted to fight everybody in that. Yeah, he definitely has. It's a tough team.

Yeah. And so I just, I don't know, man.

I am— so here are my concerns. Yeah. Can they ramp up Edwards' minutes enough? They're relying on Zombie Mike Conley, who played a good Game 6 and played decent minutes for them yesterday, but old guys in a series always makes me nervous. What's gonna come— is Io gonna be able to come back and actually play? The Shannon thing, what he brought to the table in DiFroncenzo's place, I kind of liked. Like, just, it just felt like another relentless guy who just, all he wanted to do was ball and get to the rim. San Antonio, 3-point shooting's always gonna make me nervous with them. The youth and the inexperience, including the coach. And then, The fact that they need Carter Bryant, who's a rookie, I don't even think he's 20 yet, but they're actually gonna like genuinely need him in this series. And then the big thing is Fox, because Fox killed them yesterday. And I felt like they didn't want to bench him because they didn't want it to become a story, but they should have. And they should have played Harper down the stretch. I don't, I'm not going to say Harper's better than Fox, but Fox was so bad in that game.

And it's going to be a story now because he knows he'll be the fall guy if they lose.

Yeah, the Fox thing's really disappointing. I've, I lived in Houston when he, we've talked about this a bit. My son was a big-time high school and then college basketball player. And so they, I was in a lot of the same AAU events as De'Aaron Fox. Yeah. And he's a little, just a little bit older than my son. I mean, I watched him score 40 points in the first half of a running clock AAU game. I've never seen anybody like him on the court. And so I've always, I rooted for him in Sacramento. Yeah, I've always liked him, but he is the fulcrum of this series because I, I don't care about Harrison Barnes' experience. Harrison Barnes is not a key part of the rotation. Luke Kornet has experience. He's a backup center. The only guy with playoff experience that should be on the court in crunch time is Fox.

That you would trust. Yeah.

And if he's not, If he's not up to it, it's such— you're gonna have moments like the end of last night. Can we spend a minute talking about the barrier?

Oh, so he's going against Mike Conley instead of Io. Right. What happens when Io comes back? Like, this should be, that should have been the easiest game in this series for you.

What did you make of the final possession for San Antonio?

Young team. I'm calling timeout. A lot of times I like to let the clock go in that situation. I think you do it if you have, an older team, experienced team. Like if you, if you're the Knicks, young team, I'm calling timeout. And I, and I didn't think Champagny shot was going in even though it was wide open and it was the best possible shot they could have gotten in kind of that, you know, Harry Carey kind of situation. I would've called timeout, but I, I, I don't, I, it's like, it's like staying on 12 in blackjack. You kind of have to decide, is this who I am with this moment? You can't just be like, every time I do something differently. So that's apparently what they do.

So I, so I, I have two takes, I guess. If I'm Mitch Johnson and I see Harper get the rebound and throw it to Wemby, timeout. The moment I see that, no, the moment I see that Wemby has now just passed it back, timeout. Yeah. Like if he threw it to him and Wemby's ripping up the court, I'm like, all right, you know what? Win or die with what this guy decides to do. Either way, it's an important moment for him. But once he gave it back, I'd be like, okay, let's talk it over. My other— I normally think down 2, go for the 3, 'cause overtime, like, try to get the win. It felt to me like, because the one time I, I am a bigger fan of playing for overtime is when the other team has just absolutely melted down.

Well, and also has a guy on a minutes restriction who's their best guy.

Well, yeah, that's the other thing. I mean, I know Castle had fouled out, which works against it. Yeah. But it just like when, when LeBron hit the 3 in Game 3 against Houston, it was 100% that if Houston did not win in regulation, they were losing in overtime because it was such an emotional devastation that you were there. Minnesota was off the 7th with their momentum.

Doesn't matter though. I, I don't give a shit. I, there are certain things that you just, you, you know, you know it every time, especially if you're in the building for that, right?

If you blow it, if you're a big underdog that had a game 1 and then lost it, but, and it goes to overtime, you're, it was Pritchard missing the 3 in the corner.

I knew we were gonna lose.

Yeah, game was over. And so I just, I wouldn't have hated a timeout draw. And the other thing is this, here's the thing a timeout allows for you to have. If you are like you're saying, San Antonio trying to win and also trying to win next year and like develop something, a good moment for Wimby either way, right? Hey man, drawing this up for you. Win or lose.

We know you're 5 for 18 and they're gonna put Rudy Gobert in now that we called timeout.

All right, so that's fair point. That's a fair point. Keeping Gobert off the court.

But this is the issue with them is who is your, I'm going to create a good shot going downhill for us on our team. And the answer is it's Dylan Harper, who's 19 years old. Even in that moment when he got the rebound, 5 years from now, he's gonna know in his head exactly how much time is left and he's off. He gets out, he doesn't throw it to Wemby, he's just going because he knows like, I have 8 seconds, I gotta go. He's 19. He was like, hey, oh shit, there's 7 seconds left. And you could see it the way— that's the problem with relying on—

by the way, I think I've been calling Dylan Harper Derek Harper.

You did it once. Listen, listeners are used to old guy things like that, so it's fine. I have a really important question for you about this series. Yeah. Who do you think OKC wants to play after they watch that first game?

What a great question.

I was thinking about this all day and I don't even have an answer, but I think they would want to play Minnesota because San Antonio was such a weird matchup for them. But after watching that game, I think I'd be afraid of the fuck you with the Minnesota team.

Man, it's going to feel— if Minnesota wins this series, it will feel a little Team of Destiny-ish. And we assume Ant will be by the end of it in the best, like the healthiest he's been. That team I would want nothing to do with.

How about the, how about the run of beating Joker? And beating them to the point that Shams is on SportsCenter the next day going, they'll take calls on everyone on the team except Jokic. That's round 1. Round 2 is we've, we've cut the legs out of this Wemby juggernaut that everybody was just assuming it was gonna be. Yeah. Then round 3, you beat the back-to-back potential champs who've just won, I think, 140 games in 2 years or whatever it is. Yep. And then round 4, you beat the Knicks.

That's about as good of a run as You're gonna have, well, it certainly would be as good if it would be as, as good of a run to a finals as we've had in, yeah.

Since Dirk's, Dirk in '11 or Hakeem in '95. Hakeem in '95 is the all-timer.

The, oh yeah.

And they, cause they're the 6 seed, but this team is a 6 seed too.

Yeah. And that, by the way, Hakeem in '95 also ended with the Knicks. Well, here's, here's the other question.

Well, answer that one.

Then I have a second. Hakeem in '95 ended with the Magic.

Sorry, go ahead. So you, who do you think they're rooting for?

I think they'd, as crazy as it sounds, because San Antonio owned them, I think they'd want, I think at this point they'd rather play San Antonio.

Who do you think the NBA is rooting for? Because I think you could make the case it's better for the NBA if Minnesota wins this series. Yeah. Because Wemby's already going to happen. Wemby's inevitable. It makes sense. But Minnesota elevates Ant.

Yeah. And it gives, I think that is true. And I think there is, there is an authenticity and charisma to Ant that is just infectious. Yeah. And that is impossible not to be drawn to. And it is, I also feel like Minnesota winning it gives a lot of fan bases hope because Minnesota is not like considered a— they're just smartly put together. Like, it's like they didn't get a number one pick in the draft. Yes. Ant's a great, great player. Don't get me wrong. But they don't look at him like an alien, like Wimby. Yeah. And it's not like OKC. It's like, oh, well, yeah, they have a billion picks and pulled off this heist. It's like, no, actually, We had a smart GM. We just lost the most improved player in the league. We left our team, we lost him and had to replace him in Nikhil Alexander-Walker, and we were fine. So I think that is, I think Minnesota winning it. I also, again, as your audience, as I just told 'em, you know, I have half a million dollars worth of equity in it. So, so I guess maybe I'm a little—

it's an awesome story. I, I could not believe Sometimes I watch, like, you know right away with a playoff series, Orlando-Detroit, it was just clear they were even. Yeah. And you could watch game one and you're like, oh shit, this is gonna be a good series. Boston-Philly, game 3 was the game that worried me. And then Embiid came back and messed them up for a game. But game 3, even though the Celtics won, I was like, ah, they seem really comfortable against us. Like, this is a bad, bad sign. And I think that game yesterday, I don't think it was a fluke. Castle fouling out, you could point to Fox was terrible. No Carter Bryant. Those are 3 things they can fix. But I, I agree with you. I think Minnesota could absolutely win this series and it, gun to my head, I think I would pick 'em.

Yeah. I listen, I, I think it is Minnesota was like +800 and then the Ant news came down and they were down to like +400. And then right before tip-off was down to like +350. Yeah. And now, right now I think they're like +160. And the only reason I don't think it is even is because it's already— they started as such dogs, it hasn't totally fully overcorrected.

But I, I think +176 right now.

Okay. +176.

So I think that's, that's fair considering they have 3 home games left. The guys come back. We gotta take a break and we have two more big topics. All right. Pretty good NBA playoffs so far. In case you didn't know, all playoffs long, I'm looking at the slates, sharing my favorite picks on Twitter. I almost hit everything last Friday and ended up— Tatum gets hurt in the third quarter and doesn't hit his points, rebounds over, which he was very close on. Everything else hit. This is what happens, but this is also why same-game parlays are so exciting to do. I'm posting my picks on Twitter, usually on for the Wednesday games and then maybe Friday over the weekend. So I'll be looking at San Antonio, Minnesota, putting some sort of pick. I really think Minnesota every game is a live underdog because they are absolutely convinced that they can beat San Antonio. So stay tuned for that pick. When I bet, I bet with FanDuel, a brand I trust. Easy to build your NBA bets on FanDuel. You know you're getting great odds, payouts on your parlays, many boost options. And you're gonna get your winnings instantly.

FanDuel, play your game. All right, I wanna do lottery karma rankings with you, but you wanted to do LeBron in the Ringer 100 quick, so go ahead, you have the floor.

Yeah. Well, I don't know how quick you're gonna have to cut me off.

Yeah, make it kind of quick. We, I know where you're going with it.

I, I just have a request to the founder, CEO, and president of the Ringer to convene an emergency ranking session. And be like, hey, real quick everybody, I just wanna do a status check. Do we still think all the old guys are better than LeBron? 'Cause all fucking year I've had to look at this and see, oh, Steph Curry's better than LeBron. That's cool. Kawhi, he's obviously better than LeBron. Kevin Durant, oh my God, he's clearly better than LeBron. James freaking Harden, better than LeBron. I'm looking at it. And I don't know, I, I live in New York City. I saw Steph Curry yesterday at the Met Gala. Kevin Durant, I didn't see him, but I know what he's doing, hanging out somewhere, ruining a locker room via Twitter. Yeah. Hey, Kawhi Leonard is winning your, our buddy Pablo a Pulitzer. Yeah. James Harden's going 3 for 9 into game 7 and LeBron's throwing goddamn alley-oops to his son in the same game he hit a series-clinching 3. And I gotta say, see, he's not a top 20 player in the league. Gimme a break. Can, can LeBron please be the highest ranked old guy, please?

Well, we do the list every month and it's a snapshot of where everybody is at that moment when we do the list. And I'm sure he'll be much higher when we do the list again. I think we need to add another list though, which by the way is always great content, but we have the Ringer 100, that's over here. So somebody like Embiid's not gonna do well in the Ringer 100 cuz he plays 30 games a year. Like, at some point you gotta— durability has to become a huge part of the ranking. Yeah, I think we should start a list of best guys. If I know I'm getting them 100% healthy for one playoff series, what's your list? And then LeBron moves up really high on that list.

I think I— by that metric, first of all, I, I hear what you're saying. About durability really matters. Not for the Ringer's favorite child, Steph Curry. He can miss 35 games. Nobody cares. Gotta be top 10. Not neither here nor there. Fair. If that were, if that were the list, what you said exactly, I think LeBron right now is still a top 8 guy.

What you said, you, you get fully healthy. I think he's 14 to 15 range, but you could talk me into 10, 11, 12 just 'cause how fucking smart he is. Yeah. And like that Houston series, and I should have probably talked more about it on this pod, but Houston was so disgraceful with the whole everything.

It was also brutal. It was. I was so mad about this. It was the two critical moments in the series were Friday nights, which are terrible for TV shows and pods.

Yeah, you're right.

Game 3, the steal and game-tying 3 is a Friday night. and then the masterpiece in Game 6 is a Friday night. Right. So it's just bad for content. But it was, I, I understand.

But how many times have we seen him just do that to a team where it's just like Jordan would do it with like his prowess. LeBron kind of will do it with his prowess, but his brain, and he just kind of unlocks the other team. And you give him a team like that messed up Rockets team with no point guard and a weird coach and I'm not sure the chemistry was great. And it's like fucking red meat for LeBron. Yes.

And so that's why I like— is Cade Cunningham better than LeBron right now? Yeah, sure. Of course he's Cade Cunningham. He's first team All-NBA. Got it. But Cade Cunningham and Jalen Brunson and Tyrese Maxey, all these guys who are better than LeBron, even, but I would say so, could not have after a game and a half just been like, oh, here are the fatal flaws of Houston and now you can't win. And I am going to be in such full control. I'm creating memes with little kids on the bench. I'm mortifying Shingun in front of his teammates saying, Everyone else can complain about me flopping, but not you. All your teammates can, but not you. I'm doing all of this. And it is juxtaposed to one of his primary rivals of the era, the story around him being, wait, he's on an underwater treadmill during Game 3. Yeah. Wait, it's tough. The, the team, and I like KD a lot, But oh yeah, as it turns out, him shit talking his team actually bad for chemistry. And it did kind of hurt the locker room.

No, we learned on an ESPN.com feature today that the young guys on the team are used to criticism, so it didn't bother them as much as you'd think. In that same feature, I would have fucking hated him after I read that. And I'm playing basketball with him. I'd have been like, fuck this guy, dude. Of course.

But also that feature was wild. Because that feature also said internally the Rockets view Reed Sheppard with Steve Nash upside. You know what Steve Nash could do early in his career? Dribble and pass. Like, like even— and so I— so yeah, I mean, I'm glad I got that off my chest.

I'm glad you did too. And I do think we should have a 'I know I'm getting 100% healthy for this playoff series' list. I think would be good. I don't know what number he'd be, but he'd be I don't think I would have him as high as 8, but he'd be up there. Well, no, I mean— Okay, lottery karma power rankings, let's go. I first wrote this column in 2007, back when my fingers worked. I had more things on there. Um, the basically the concept is who should win the lottery, and we have 4 chances. They do the lottery for the first 4 picks. Yep. The big questions, I used to have more questions, but, uh, for karma, Number one, is your team overdue to win the lottery?

Great.

So like Utah has never moved up. That's the team I would say is overdue. Indiana, I don't think has ever had the first pick. That would be another one. Um, has the team's big picture game plan made any sense? So Sacramento, for instance, paying the luxury tax for one of the worst teams in the league and not having a future. They would count as not making sense. Like the Bulls.

The Bulls not making—

well, the Bulls actually make sense because they're like, we just, we just want to cheap out every year and our fans are going to pay for tickets.

Yeah. I don't know if, uh, Io was that expensive. He probably could be.

$7 million a year was too pricey. Got to cut that out.

Kobe White had a playoff moment, but go ahead.

Sorry. This one's a big one. Did they handle last season with dignity? Oh, that's gonna be a tough one for a few of these. Number 4: Did they ever make you say, why can people divorce their spouses but they can't divorce their teams? If any of these teams that we have made one of their fans say that to another fan, we have to measure that in the karma rankings. Then finally, um, do you honestly believe the karma gods would feel bad for this team? Is our fifth one. That doesn't happen all the time, but I think Indiana would be a good case of, oh man, they were in Game 7 in the Finals and their best guy blew out his Achilles. So is, is that the full list of rules?

Because I have a question.

Those are just 5 questions, kind of thought starters to think about.

Is there any factor of it would be catastrophic for the league if this team won it? It's a good ad.

I think I used to have it. Catastrophic in the— oh, you're— so you're talking OKC specifically?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, it normally would not apply. So we have that covered.

I'll give you the categories because we have that covered, and I'll just give you my list and you can, you can be my conciliary for the list. Love it. First category, I'm honored. No karma points whatsoever. So you're big goose egg. OKC is our first team. They're in the 12th spot right now. They have a 1.5 chance to win. There's also a scenario where OKC gets in the top 4 and Indiana gets— stays in the top 4, aka the Clippers apocalypse, where they would have followed by some sort of ruling the next day. But yeah, OKC's had the— in the last 20 years, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, and 3rd. So they've had some lottery. I give them no karma points at all. They're really good. They're probably going to win the title again. They don't deserve to get a top 4 pick. The other one I have in there, and tell me if I'm right, and I say this with advanced apologies to the Maverick fans who loved Luka and did not want to trade him. They got Cooper Flagg last year, and I think that was the makeup call for the horrible trade. Nico got fired.

They just brought in Masai Uehara. Things are okay. Kyrie's gonna come back. I think they used up all their karma points last year with the flag thing, but I'm willing to accept other arguments.

Nope, it's— I, I have no other arguments, but I think— I don't think they used up the karma points for the flag thing. I think they had karma points even after winning the flag.

So you think they have residue karma points? I think they did.

What happened? And then I think Nico Harrison said, and I quote, I hope people are seeing the vision now.

Oh, that, that extinguished the karma points. Okay.

And then they were like, you gotta be kidding me, this guy. So no, so I'm with you, they're out.

All right, so they have the 8th spot, they have a 6.7% chance to win, 45.2% for top 4. No karma points for them. No, by the way, they're gonna— they'll get the 7th, 8th pick. They're gonna get a great guard. They'll, they'll get somebody really good. All right, next category is a small vial of karma points. Charlotte, who's in the 14th spot, 2.4% chance to move up, but they've picked— Khan was the 3rd pick, Miller's 2nd, and LaMelo's 3rd. They don't really need another top 4.

They don't need another top 4 pick. You do give them credit though for the dignity of the season.

They really put together a smart team and, well, the— and I mean, a smartly constructed roster.

Yes. Trying to set me up. Yeah. And also the fact that those guys, if you redrafted, they made smart picks.

Yeah. They went 3 for 3. You could argue Halliburton for Lamelo, but nobody would have taken Halliburton.

Nobody would have taken that at the time. That's a different type of thing. So, yeah. Pick in those— in those—

so they get a little karma for how well they've run the team the last couple years. Yeah. Next one is Miami, who's in the 13th spot. They're not going to win anyway. Um, they haven't picked higher than 10 since 2008. They did get the decision and all the stuff with LeBron. I think they're still dining on the karma points from that. I had them at 0 karma points just in general, but Bam scoring 83 points on the tanking Wizards, I think they won karma points for that. So I'm gonna give them a little vibe.

I was so hoping you were going to go there. Yeah, that is correct.

They get points for that. So if they get into the top 4, it'll be like, oh, it's because of the BAM '83.

It is because they said, oh, you're going to shamelessly tank, are you, Washington? Yeah. Well, we are. We're going to scarlet letter you. Yeah. We're, we're going to show you there's a penalty for trying to lose basketball games. And then unapologetic afterwards. Unapologetic. And the penalty is roughly, and again, this off the top of my head, the 374th best scorer in the history of the NBA. Yeah. Is gonna score 83 points on you. Right. And you're just gonna eat it.

So I'll give them a little karma for that. Yeah. Memphis in the 6th spot, 9% to win, 37.2 for top 4. Yeah. So Ja was the 2nd pick and Triple J was also a top 5 pick. They also took Kevin Love 5 and Thabit 2. From '95 to 2002, they picked 6, 3, 4, 2, 2, 2, 6, 4. They've had 12 top 6 picks in the last 30 years, the Grizzlies franchise. 12 top 6 picks in the last 30 years. This is their second teardown/rebuild in 7, 8 years. Sorry, Chris Vernon, it's true. Karma points for Wasn't their fault. Ja flamed out. Everyone would've taken them second, and I don't know what they really could have— what, what they really could have done differently. So they get points for that. They're one of 5 teams that have never made the finals, and recently LeBron crapped on their city. And I think they get points for all 3 of those things where if they won one of the top 4 picks, I don't think people would be that upset. So I'm gonna give them a little vile.

Can I give 'em a little extra? Yeah. Okay.

We can move them into the next category if you want.

I would like to rep for Memphis for a moment. Let's hear it. So my sister-in-law lives in Memphis. I go there a lot. LeBron's comments really, really hurt the feelings of folks in that city in a way that I thought was a little too much, but it really bothered them. Yes, it is a very tough city, but it is a prideful city. And they did everything they could to really support and love the Ja Grizzlies. And through no fault of the, in my opinion, the organization and certainly the fans, Ja screwed the whole thing up.

And so you're, we'll move them higher. Okay. You're selling me. I like this. Yeah.

I would like Memphis to have another shot at this. And so yeah, I would like to move them up.

All right. We'll move up. So we'll revisit a little bit later. So that list was just Charlotte and Miami. You know, the thing about the LeBron comments, it was almost like a sucker punch. It was like somebody punched them from behind as they're just walking down the street and they just woke up the next day like, what happened? LeBron punched you in the back of the head. What? Why did he do that? Like, there was no warning at all.

And listen, as it turns out, because I then followed that story probably closer than most. Man, NBA guys really do hate that hotel. That's it.

And it all comes down to the hotel. That's all that matters. Just build a 4-story Mandarin and you're good.

It's just the hotel. That's it. But LeBron, he was golfing, he was trying to make people laugh. He should have just really focused his, his critique on just the hotel. It wouldn't have hurt as bad.

So yeah, I, I didn't mind it because I think LeBron's One of his issues over the years, like, I don't feel like we see the real LeBron in some of this stuff. Like, authentic LeBron that I'm sure he's actually like versus what's presented to us. And I thought in that golf video, it's just, I think that's what he's like. So I was like, this is, I wish he did more of this. But then he ended up, you know, uh, making an entire city feel terrible for a week.

Everybody got mad at him.

Yeah. All right. Next category is Soup Cup of Karma Points. So Milwaukee is in the 10th spot, 3.0%. Top 4 would be 13.9. Ironically, they get the worst of their pick or Atlanta's pick, or the Pelicans pick that goes to Atlanta. Yes. So I don't even know how to do the karma points here because if they go into the top 4, Atlanta takes the pick anyway. Um, I'll give them a little though. They need— I do both of them to go in. Yeah, they need both picks to go in.

So they need both. So they, so they need a lot of help. Here's— yeah, I, I'm fine with them not having a ton. Yeah. And here's why. Let's see.

Go.

Everyone in the media has landed on, geez, Giannis, enough already, ask for a trade, move on. All the pressure's on Giannis. When everyone, I think, acknowledges, yes, it's best for Giannis to move on. It's also best for Milwaukee to move on from Giannis. It's best for both parties. And there is it. So there should be just as much, if not more pressure on the party that actually has to execute the trade to be like, you know what, Giannis, we're gonna move on from you. But they don't want to be a bad guy. And everyone's like, well, of course you don't want to trade Giannis, but I'm demanding it. And Giannis is like, well, I don't want to be a bad guy either. So I just think, pardon me, the organization hasn't been great. Also, Jimmy Haslam bought, you know, bought into the team. Karma's not coming his way anytime soon. So yeah, they don't need any extra.

I forgot about the Jimmy. So we could move them back then. That's fine. Yeah.

Put them where you had Memphis.

Yeah, the Giannis Milwaukee thing was like the benevolent version of the Justin Baldoni-Blake Lively lawsuit that finally got settled. Neither one wanted to admit that they were the one that wanted to settle it, which is basically where we are with the Bucks. Okay, next one is Sacramento.

Um, I was very curious where you were gonna have—

5th spot, 11.5%. They had the 4th pick in '22, Murray. They had 2nd and 18, Marvin Bagley, one pick ahead of, uh, Luka.

Luka. And then, uh, Splatte said Luka's a big market guy. We can't do it.

Sacramento wasn't big enough market. Can't take him. Gotta take a more loyal, worse player.

One of the craziest takes I've ever heard.

He's like, how could Sacramento fans feel worse about this? How about this podcast interview from 8 years later? Uh, and then Fox was the top 5 pick. So from 2009 to '18, they picked 4, 5, 7, 5, 7, 8, 6, 8, 5, 2. Um, and I'm just tired of this team and this franchise, but the karma points— and this is why they're in the Soup Cup— their fans, this 20-year run for them, just for the fans only, there has to be like a significant amount of karma points. Like, this is— and they've 20 years of just Ugh. They've never had the number 1 pick, right? Never had it. Oh, and no, they had it once.

Never nervous Purvis. Oh, okay. So yeah, that was late '80s, '89. So they haven't had the number 1 pick in 35 years. They've certainly been bad enough to get it.

There's 6 teams that haven't had the pick. Denver, Miami, Utah, the Hornets, the Lakers, and the Pacers.

The Lakers not having ever had the number 1 pick and having had 9 number 1 picks on the team in their history is just bananas. Right.

Yeah, I'm fine with that for Sacramento. Okay. Now for a special part of today's episode where we unpack a six-pack, or rather 6 of the biggest things happening on and off the court during playoff season, brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. And a superior light beer. I had a couple of them last weekend and, uh, it really is superior. Let's get started. Here's my six-pack, six possible trade candidate fall guys for round two. As round two evolves here over the next two weeks, who not only, um, may— might take some of the blame for a playoff loss, but also it would open the door for them to potentially be trade bait to improve a team. I'm going to rank from 1 to 6 for the Six Pack. Number 1, Jarrett Allen on Cleveland, because if Cleveland cannot get by Detroit, that will mean they probably have to decide between Mobley and Jarrett Allen as their quote unquote big. Maybe you could trade one of them to either change the team, get somebody like Giannis if you put Mobley on the table, or just trade Jared Allen for somebody who's a little bit cheaper.

But I think Cleveland would have to decide between those two guys because over and over again it would've been the same story with them. That's one. Number two, De'Aaron Fox, which Nick Wright and Ty talked about on the Tuesday pod. If he just cannot rise to the challenge against a Timberwolves team that has Zombie Mike Conley and Ayada Sunmu, who's battling injury, if he can't figure out a way to really impact that. He would be a potential guy. Maybe they turn him into a shooter or somebody with more size. Number 3, Naz Reid. I don't know if anybody on the nobody believes in us Timberwolves would even be on the trade block, but this would be the one guy you would maybe think about because for what he's making and doesn't play a ton of minutes, and you have Gobert and you have Randle, and maybe you could flip him into more guard help or something else. But I'm not even sure I really believe in this one. Number 4, Evan Mobley, for all the same reasons I mentioned with the Cavs. Number 5, Carl Towns on the New York Knickerbockers. Just because if they somehow blow this Sixers series, I assume there will be a fall guy in the Knicks and Giannis trade rumors, and he's the logical person that would be in a trade.

I actually like the way he's playing in the playoffs, but had to mention him. And then number 6, I have Isaiah Stewart on the Pistons, who reasonable salary, he's making like 15, really good advanced stats, could probably be the starting center for somebody. And maybe you see that his usage gets yanked around on Detroit with Durant, sometimes they get smaller. Maybe that's a piece they would want to put in a trade to get the much needed second scorer they have. So Cade Cunningham doesn't have to shoot 35 times. Honorable mention, Austin Reeves as a sign and trade. Just had to, uh, throw him out there in case the Lakers decide maybe we do want to keep LeBron. Anyway, that's it for today's Six Pack. So now you can go grab your own six pack of Michelob Ultra. Plus, Michelob Ultra is giving you a chance to win exclusive prizes, including courtside tickets and more. Enter now at michelobultra.com/courtside. Mickelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Mickelob Ultra Courtside 25-26, no purchase necessary, open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods, see official rules at mickelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details.

Next one is— Brooklyn. I didn't really know where to put Brooklyn. 14%, they're in the third spot. Top 4, 52.1. They've only had one top 3 pick really in the last 20 years. Derek Favors, number 3. Um, karma points for building the 2024 Celtics inadvertently. Karma points for really trying to make a legitimate run with cap space and KD and Kyrie. They trade everything for Harden and they get hosed. I'm going to give them demerits for— I just think they're incredibly poorly run. I don't understand just about anything they do. And so I kind of put them here.

I'm willing to be talked out of it, man. Sean Marks, he just needs a 13th or 14th year and he'll nail it. What?

This could be the year he might have figured it out.

So I, so I agree with you in that I do want to give credit for the fact that Brooklyn twice in the last 15 years has been like, we are going, yeah, we're going all in.

We, we want to win the title. We're brazenly going after the title.

Yeah. And so I want to give them credit for that. I want to give them non-credit for the fact that they had 5 first-round picks last year and I don't know who any of them are. I live, I want to, I, you're not a Nolan Treary guy. I want to give them non-credit for the fact that the first year that they had Kyrie, KD, and Harden, yeah, I got pretty good season tickets to the Nets. And midway through the year, they were a good team. And midway through the year, my wife said to me, next year, do you think It'd be better if we just spent the money on 10 good Knicks games. And I was like, really?

I mean, how come? You could say 5 good Knicks games, right?

And it's not like she's a huge fan of anyone on the Knicks, anything like that. And she was like, it just feels so much more fun there. Like here, nobody's really into it. They had KD, Kyrie, and Harden. They had no fans.

Like they, and so, well, you know what, when it even gets worse, the Liberty games are fucking awesome. They're awesome in the exact same arena.

It's same arena. My daughter and I went to, when the Liberty, the clinching game for the title. Yeah. It's electric. Yeah. So that does work against them. It would though. They do have to get a superstar to have any chance of getting any type of attention there. So yeah, a little bit. I mean, they've gone for it.

I just don't, I don't think they're going to keep them in this category. Yeah. We'd all be better off if they just moved to Seattle and we didn't have expansion. Next category is a salad bowl of karma points. You might, you might disagree with this. I have Golden State here, 2.0%, 11th spot, top 4, 9.4%. They did have Wiseman as the 2nd pick 6 years ago and Kuminga number 7. Those were their last 2 really good picks last 15 years. This is just about— this is where you can get mad. Yeah. I don't want to see Steph just be on shit teams for the next 3 years of his career.

I'm not going to get mad. Okay. I totally agree with that.

Let's get him one more good guy.

So I, I'm Steph. So I don't know what category is bigger than salad bowl. There's 2 more categories.

There's— okay. Oh no, this is, this is the second to last category.

Okay. Steph individually, his karma deserves the biggest. What works against him and brings it to this just second tier, Draymond, is the team. No, the team being so smug in that we've got one of the 12 greatest players of all time. He's still awesome. Let's try to win while also preparing for our staff life. It, it was the same shit I'll never forgive. Never. The Cavs in 2018 when Kyrie wanted out and they could have had Paul George and the owner Dan Gilbert was like, well no, we need a post-LeBron life. And so we need a pick that turned into Collin Sexton and they got little Isaiah Thomas.

So that trade they did with Boston, that was your guy though, LeBron. What do you mean? Because he was going to leave after the year and they're like, we'll do the trade if we know you're staying. And he would come back.

I understand. And guess what? Whether he was leaving or not, you know what you should try to do when you have peak LeBron James? Win the title that year. Instead they were like, no, we have to be okay after—

He could have waited one more year and then gone into Lakers in 2019. He, he could have done all those things. He's been like, I'll sign a one-year extension if you do this trade.

Yeah, he could have done all those things or the Cavs could have just made the better— first of all, it would've been the better trade. Right. Second of all, planning for a post, a of a future post your all-time legendary players dumb. So I hated what the Warriors did with Curry, to Curry, like this, I not maximizing those young players for win now guys. So he deserves extra karma. Okay. The organization deserves less. So leave it where it is. Also a little, a tiny douse of negative karma for Draymond having the audacity to be like, yeah, you know, Steve Kerr held me back. What? What are you— are you—

now that's all he did. He only did that to get talk show segments out of it. Well, he got it. He got— there was content all over the place.

Bring your favorite Austin Rivers and Draymond. They might, they might be meeting in Temecula soon. They're, they're going after it. But it was— but so go ahead. So you're—

I'm fine where they're at. Next one, Chicago. Top 4 for them is 20.3%. They're in the 9 spot, so 4.5 to win it. They've picked, uh, 4th in 2020. They had a stretch from '99 to '08, 1-4-4-2-7-3-2-9-1. Um, they've been the cheapest big market team in any sport. If you think the 3 biggest markets are New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Yes. They've been the cheapest of anybody other than the Sterling Clippers. It's been 28 years since Michael Jordan retired. Their fans deserve better. And all of those are reasons they should have karma points. Conversely, do the Reinsdorfs deserve a top 4 pick?

Where do we put this? This is way too high for sure.

But can you blame the fans though? So you would put them where Sacramento is basically? Yeah.

All right, I'll move back. I, I don't, I don't blame the fans, but listen, Bulls fans, they're also Bears fans. You just got Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson. You got, you got a hockey team, you got two baseball teams.

Honestly, that's their attitude. They've just moved to the Cubs and they've moved to the Bears and the Bulls. They just assume are gonna go 42-40 every year and that's the NBA team they have.

Yeah. And so the Rhynes, all right, I moved them back.

Deserve it. All right, so we have Golden State, moved Memphis into this category. Utah. Thank you for that. Fourth spot, Utah, 11.5%, top four, 45.2%. Last 15 years, they picked 5th last year, 5th in '14, took Dante Exum and Kanter in 2011. They have never moved up in the lottery ever, and they bastardized the sport to the point that they finally had to actually change the lottery rules and do this 3-2-1 thing. I think they got karma points for that. They're the catalyst. Why? Yeah, they were the catalyst for changing the lottery in a good way. It took them before the All-Star break to do it.

This is a little bit of you love Danny Ainge and want good things for him. I mean, this is—

they deserted us and took our, took our best assistant.

All right, so maybe they— I mean, here is why they, the fans of the Jazz deserve, do deserve good lottery luck. The fact that the team that quite literally for all of NBA past, present, and future is going to have the hardest time signing free agents in perpetuity, has never moved up in the lottery. Seems like a sick joke.

Although Salt Lake's red hot right now.

You know, I do believe it's—

I might get a baseball team. It's really cool to go there.

I believe You know, they have reality shows. Wyoming is sick, is super hot right now too. You know where, you know what demographic it's not super hot around? NBA players. NBA free agents. 27-year-old NBA superstars. Not very often being like, hey, guess where I just got a spread? Salt Lake. Yeah. And so I, they need some luck there.

Okay. So, all right. So keep as is. So Golden State, Memphis, Utah in this category. I have Atlanta via the New Orleans pick. So they had a good season. They did win the lottery 2 years ago, so they lose points for that. Top 4, 29.3% chance to move up. 6.8% for the 7th spot. And the case for them for karma points, they built a really fun team. They did a good job for the most part. They have fun nucleus. It would be fun if they got one of these guys. And I think this is around the right area for them.

So when you first told me we were doing this, my gut was I was going to say Atlanta should be number 1.

Oh, well, let me give you the other 2 teams then.

No, but I'm going to— but I no longer— I think you have it right. I know, because so my gut was it was such a savvy trade with Joe Dumars in New Orleans just to get this pick. Them having the guts to finally move off Trae Young. The fact that they, you know, CJ had this moment, all that worked for him. And then what kept sticking in my head was, yeah, but they took Zachary Risacher number 1 overall. So they probably, 3rd is a good spot. So we have 2 teams left, 2 karma teams left, 2 karma teams.

One is in the same category. The Washington Wizards. All right. First spot. Got Joe House. 11.5% to win. No, that's not right. No. They're in the first spot. 14% chance to win. Yes. 52.1 for top 4. They picked Sar 2 years ago, number 2. They got the 6th pick last year with Johnson. They've had 12 top 6 picks in the last 35 years. Since they made the 1979 Finals, They have 5 playoff series wins in 47 years and they've never made the conference finals. And their fans are in about as dark of a place as it gets. And they're probably upset that they couldn't even win this. So I have them second.

And Anthony Davis is talking as if he's never gonna play a game for 'em.

Yeah, he's, he's on Redfin in every NBA city looking at houses. They have a pool. Is there an 8-bedroom place in Portland?

Figuring out where he's gonna be. They're also about to have the Trae Young experience, which I don't think is enjoyable. Can I tell you something about Trae Young?

Sure. I think we've all blocked it out of our mind. I was just looking this up randomly the other day 'cause I was looking at Giannis stuff. The Hawks won 2 games in the 2021 Conference Finals. Yeah, that, that's Series was 4-2. Now Giannis missed a couple of them, but if you go back and look at the box scores, they look like two 8-seeds compared to now.

It was, but it was two— Giannis got hurt in Game 4. Yeah, so it was, it was 2-2 with Giannis out for the rest of the series. Atlanta, it was going to be, you know, Chris Paul was going to be a champion is what was going to happen. Right. If Atlanta wins that series. Yeah, it was 2-2 in the conference finals. It's remarkable.

I think the 2020 and '21 seasons, 50 years from now, people are gonna be a basketball reference. Like, wait, what, what's going on here?

Yeah. I mean, 20, this way it went. I think, I think people will probably remember '20 as probably the final title for the greatest player of all time. It's neither here nor there. Atlanta, what's working against Atlanta? Is— or I'm sorry, what's working? It's Washington. Pardon me.

The, um, the shamelessness, the embarrassment of being scarlet lettered by Bam.

I mean, they have— well, they have just been— but their fans don't deserve— it's not on their fans. All right, I'm fine with them being there. I— they're— would you put Atlanta over them? Yes.

Okay. I would put Atlanta in the second spot.

Okay. And I love who you have number 1.

Yeah. So this is the last category, a swimming pool of karma points. Indiana, 14%. They're in the 2 spot, top 4, 52.1. An amazing wrinkle where they only keep the pick if it's top 4. They could drop to 5 or 6. Otherwise it goes to the Clippers. Little similar to, I don't know if you watch Survivor, but Devin's flipping the coin to basically try to stay in the game is kind of what they did with that pick. They, they flip the coin and if it comes up heads, they're away and they get a top 4 pick and they get Zubats and they get Tyrese Haliburton coming back. Yeah. Like they're, they're probably going to be like the number 2 favorite in the East.

Well, yeah. And they, if there is ever an acceptable reason to throw a season away, it was them. It's like, hey, we, they, we made a finals the year before that. They made the conference finals the year before they made the finals.

We made the finals and our best guy risked everything to play in game 7, took a chance, and the worst possible outcome happened and ruined our next season. Ruined our next season.

And so we snap recalibrated. We're not, we didn't, tear it down. We just took a gap year. Yeah. And we also— also, didn't they— they had their pick only because of a trade they made during the finals, during the finals, to get their pick back. So they had— they did that with like a little, maybe a little premonition of what was to come.

That came across Conspiracy Bill's desk. Last summer? What? Why did they make that trade during the Finals? Was it like Halliburton protection, like getting protection in blackjack or something?

It's, it was, it's crazy how it happened. It was days before the guy gets hurt. Yeah. Um, they're well run. They have a plan and it, it is, it's not quite the '03 lottery where Jerry West is sitting there. I either get LeBron James or the all-time—

it's the all-time either or. Although now we know LeBron would have been out of there in '07. Maybe they—

no, can I tell you something? Not only would LeBron not have been out of there, they would have a 30-foot, a 30-story, 7-star hotel. Yeah, with what that downtown would have been if LeBron was there. Um, the, the Memphis montage. Indiana being like, all right, they're gonna be watching the lottery just knowing if 3 teams move up, we're screwed. Yeah.

If they come up 5 or 6, it's over. And then if you're— so the best thing they have going for them is the Clippers would benefit from this, which wouldn't— I don't know if the league would be doing backflips. That the Clippers got the 5th pick in the draft. So, and then could, if let's say a ruling came down, they decide the Clippers did all this stuff, could they then just say you don't get the 5th pick? That's gonna be part of the penalty.

I don't know. But so I think Indiana, I, Indiana, I don't, they don't have to get the number 1 pick, but they've gotta stay in the top 4. So I like them, I like them being number 1 on this.

I think. All right, so I'll recap. No, from no karma points to a swimming pool of karma points. Yeah. OKC, Dallas, Charlotte, Miami, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Chicago, Brooklyn, Golden State, Memphis, Utah, Washington, Atlanta, Indiana having the most karma points. That's a good list. It's a good list. Congratulations, Indiana.

Yeah, congratulations, Indiana. Good luck, Atlanta. Memphis. I hope this made Chris Vernon and everyone happy that there was, you know, some, somebody repping for Memphis.

What does Conspiracy Nick think would be the fishiest outcome? Last year we hit the fishiest outcome when Cooper Flagg went to the Dallas Mavericks. I think it's Golden State getting a top 4 pick would be the one that would make me go, oh yeah, if I was running the league, that's what I would've done.

All right, so let Golden State, Golden State certainly is the one that's best for the league. Yeah, there's no doubt about that.

It's like them just getting DiBansa, who could play right away for them.

What about this one? And I don't know, again, I don't know if they would do it, but maybe they would. What about Brooklyn getting a top 4 pick and using that as a trade for Giannis? Like, that is— well, here's the thing with Brooklyn.

They don't have their pick next year. 'Cause Houston can swap it.

Oh yeah, it's part of that weird deal they made.

So they actually have to be good next year. So yeah, Brooklyn would be another one. I'm not sure they're anxious to help out Brooklyn. No, that's probably true. Dallas could be the other one. It's like, hey, you owe us for the rest of the Luka trade. We know, we know you promised us one lottery, but it was actually two, two lotteries to send Luka to Los Angeles.

Just so you know, I just clicked sim lottery on Tankathon. And the result was Milwaukee moved up to 1, so that goes to Atlanta. Wow. And the Clippers moved up to 2, and that goes to OKC. That would not be great. That's what just came up in, in the one that I just did. Oh my God. Milwaukee to it, that goes to Atlanta is 1. The Clippers, which goes to OKC at 2. Washington 3, Utah 4, poor Indiana drops to 5, and it goes to the Clippers.

Oh, then gamut of emotions for the Clippers. Gambit of emotion. OKC moving into the top 4 of this lottery would enrage people. I—

it would be a catastrophe.

I was on the air when Cleveland won the 2014 lottery, and I kind of melted down for like a minute.

Yeah, I remember.

I remember, I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This is the third time in four years that they won the lottery.

Um, real quick, is it weird to you that it's on a Sunday? Yeah, I hate it.

I hate it.

It's supposed to be Tuesday night or Wednesday night, right?

Well, they're gonna have— so it's a 12:30 game, lottery after the— or 12:30 Pacific, 3:30 Eastern game, lottery, and then the next game.

And I don't like that at all.

I don't like it either. I liked when it was the middle of the week and we could get content out of it. But yeah. All right, Nick Ray, I took enough of your time. This was a true pleasure. Thanks for doing the karma rankings. Thanks for talking basketball with me. It was great to see you as always.

Oh, you know what? You as well. I'll tell Kevin Wilds. How about this? I'll tell Kevin Wilds you say hello, and you tell Joe House, who I've never met, but in my head we're friends, I say hello.

All right, we'll do that. All right. See you later. Great to see you. Thank you. Yep. Bye. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Nick Wright. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. Don't forget about the new rewatchables we put up. There's Something About Mary. Don't forget about La Gata finally ended. Uh, the conclusion, the last 7th episode of the series is up and you can rip through all of them now. I'm gonna be back on Thursday with one more podcast. Can't wait. Must be 21+ in President Select states for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. Or 18+ and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming, get in problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. HOPE is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867.