Transcript of An Absolutely Horrific Patriots Loss, the Rams-49ers Travel Bowl, and Hottest Takes With Craig Horlbeck, Danny Heifetz, and Danny Kelly

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The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by FanDuel. The NFL is here and it's the most rewarding season ever on FanDuel with the all-time FanDuel Rewards Club. Every eligible bet can earn you points. Win or lose, you still get points. The more points, the bigger the rewards you can unlock. Head to fanduel.com/BS to start earning with FanDuel Rewards Club. 21+ select states or 18+ DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. The Bill Simmons Podcast. We are live here on Netflix with 3 guys who did the Rewatchables this week. Talladega Nights. This seemed like such a, a great idea. Pat Seahawks opening night. Sam Darnold gets hurt in the first series, which kind of sucked. And it felt like the season parted for the New England Patriots. AJ Brown goes down. Drake Maye has 3 turnovers down the stretch. The Patriots blow the game. I feel like my season is over, guys. I don't know. Craig, you wanna start? I just feel like, I feel like we're going 6-11 now. I'm so depressed.

We just did Talladega Nights and Drake Maye did kind of look like Ricky Bobby in his underwear running around. Help me, Tom Cruise.

I, I just, they played like, they played scared and like they thought 10 points was gonna win the game for 2 solid hours, including right before halftime when it felt like they could have gone for the jugular. And they just kind of left the door open for everything that happened. Danny, you're a Seahawks fan. Danny Kelly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, as you're watching that, are you surprised the Patriots are letting them hang around like that? What are you thinking?

I was a little shocked at the lack of aggressiveness on 3rd downs in particular. I feel like there was like the one that you're mentioning, I believe they just ran like a draw on 3rd and 5, settled for—

At midfield.

Yeah, settled to punt. They thought they were in control of the game and I mean, for a little while they were. And then this is what happens when you let teams hang around with a really good defense and they've got some turnovers. I thought, yeah, I thought, and I thought for, I don't really have a lot of confidence in Drew Lock as like a quarterback long-term, but I thought that Brian Fleury, the Seahawks new offensive coordinator, Did a pretty good job of managing it for him in this game. So that was encouraging. I thought he, he finished 16 to 22. So he was—

No picks, right? No turnovers, nothing.

One touchdown, no picks. I think that, that play call to do the play action on 4th down and give it to JSN where he scored that touchdown, I thought that was a ballsy play call. But yeah, I mean, this is what happens when you let, you know, teams with really good defenses hang around. The Seahawks defense, I think I was texting the guys like Seahawks defense needs to get a big play. And then immediately after that, they got that pick. And they just kind of got rolling.

Hi Fitz, we didn't know each other when the helmet catch happened. This is like 40% of what I looked like.

I've never been happier to be on this show. I've always wanted to be here after an absolute Patriots meltdown. This is—

Yeah, well, it happened.

It's the worst Patriots loss I've seen in 7, 8 months.

There it is.

Yeah.

Bill, I, first of all, in honor of Cousin Sal who couldn't be here tonight, Drake maybe for Drew Lock. Who says no, Bill?

The Drake Maybe. I did have Sal in my head.

I—

this really could— if the Cowboys are good and Drake Maybe just completely goes into a tailspin this year— Take the year off.

Just skip a year. Come back next year.

Who else could I get to guest host a Sunday? Like, Kimmel goes away for the summers. Maybe I just have to do that. Maybe I get Rosie O'Donnell to host every Sunday with Sal. Maybe that'll be my way I torture Sal back.

In all seriousness, this is pretty terrible. You literally had 8 months to prepare for this humiliating Super Bowl loss. Sam Darnold goes out on the 5th snap of the Seahawks offense of the entire season. You get Drew Lock for 99% of this game. All Drake Maye has to do is not throw 3 interceptions and you're gonna win this game.

You never go full Stroud. He went full Stroud in this one.

It's tough because a lot of the mistakes that Maye made, I feel like, I feel like the thing about Drake Maye last year is he was so good with the deep ball. And yeah, every deep ball he threw tonight was underthrown. Like he got lucky with the PI to AJ Brown. The other one was to Dobbs, is underthrown, turned into a pick. And then the last pick to end the game was the most— that was the worst throw he's thrown in his entire career. I don't know why he didn't throw the ball away. He completely forced it. It was totally underthrown. They were forcing the ball to Mack Hollins. I, I, I was shocked at how nervous he looked in this game.

Well, the flea flicker was a really bad throw.

Yeah.

That should have just been an easy touchdown. All 3 of those interceptions happened because it didn't feel like his feet was set. And it felt like he was arm throwing. Danny, wasn't this— Danny Kelly, wasn't this what, uh, this was the rap on him in college, right?

Yes.

The mechanics were a little shaky, but his mechanics last year were fantastic. Like, he maybe had that last, the 3rd interception, which was obviously his worst play of the game. He might've had 5 of those for the entire year last year.

Yeah.

And I don't even know if 5 of them became interceptions, but that was— and the other thing is he took the sack on first down before that interception, which was also stupid because they had first down on the, you know, on the 20 with 35 seconds left. At the very least, like, you figure you need a field goal, go to overtime. But, uh, I, I just felt like he self-combusted, DK.

Yeah, I think, and that you're right, that was kind of the knock on him coming in is just his feet get a little happy when he's throwing. He doesn't really get set and then the ball kind of sails on him or whatever. Craig, to your point about the deep passes, I saw this from Next Gen Stats. He had 1 interception on deep passes last year. He had 2 in this game.

That was his whole thing. He was almost perfect as a deep ball passer last year.

So, you know, I think also you, you do have to give credit to the Seahawks defense. I mean, this is one of the best defenses in the NFL. They were really doing a good job of bringing the heat from different areas and kind of like forcing him off his spot late in the game especially. This— I thought the Seahawks defense, defensive line took over, uh, Byron Murphy, Leonard Williams, They were really just— and then Derek Hall late in the game, they were just really getting after him. I think that made him really uncomfortable. Obviously that decision late in the game, the, the, the final pick was, you know, just pretty much on May. But overall I thought the Seahawks defense really stepped up too.

Yeah. Either you're throwing it outta bounds, which he didn't accomplish, or you're trying to do a jump ball for Matt Collins who's covered by 2 guys. I don't like that decision either. You could take the field goal and take it to overtime, but I, I watched, obviously I watched every Pats game. Like he was lights out the entire year last year and really starting with the playoffs when I didn't think he was healthy. He looked healthy in this game. That's the thing. There's no excuses this time. He was scrambling around. He looked like the Drake Maye from the first 4 months of last season. They were 3rd and ones, like controlled draw, you know, draw sweeps for him and stuff like that. That, that, that's what they did last year and he still sucked. What were you gonna say, Heffetz?

Well, it's just concerning because he beat so many backup quarterbacks last year that now, you know, it's concerning he couldn't beat the backup quarterback to start the year.

No.

Well, I had—

I mean, I had notes and I was always doing hypothetical notes for if the Pats won about how they passed the Super Bowl curse, the hangover curse, right to the Seahawks. Like It Follows, the horror movie. And, and the Just like the, the, the Darnold going out, what a break that was to start out 1-0 with a game that seemed like such an obvious loss. Then you look at the next 5 games of the schedule, like they could have been 5-1 after 6. Now they're 0-1. Now it's, it, it, this is even worse 'cause it's, it's a Wednesday. They don't play again till a week from Sunday. So this is 10, 10, 11 days of what's going on with Drake Maye. So we're just gonna get that over and over again. Yeah.

And AJ Brown is hurt as well.

Well, yeah, that's, that's the next thing.

And AJ Brown and the depression of losing the Super Bowl arising, which I don't think can be understated because all these guys spend 2 weeks before the Super Bowl just trying to keep in the back of their mind that you've gonna achieve this lifelong goal and then you're embarrassed in front of 100 million people and then it just gets like all of it just comes flooding back after you spent the 6 months burying it in your head.

Yeah. And that's, those are the stakes of a game like that. 'Cause you could have flipped the narrative on that last drive. You have 40 seconds left, you have 2 timeouts, you're on the 20. You have a Seahawks secondary. That was another break they got in this game other than Drew Lock, the Seahawks secondary missing 2 guys from last year plus Amon-Ra's out, you know? And this is like, this should, this should, this should have been set up for some sort of great moment.

And instead, I mean that, yeah, that pick, the second pick that they had, it was ironic 'cause it was Rodney Thomas who I've barely even heard of coming up off the practice squad.

Right.

Knocking it into the air and then Nehemiah Pritchett made the interception, he was the, I guess, sort of surprise— or not surprised, but 3rd corner, because that was a competition in training camp and everything. Um, so that just is like another, another just nod to the Seahawks defense. They found guys to step up in this game, and these 2 random guys that, you know, you didn't really hear much about, certainly not last year, making the play.

That's the coaching of Mike McDonald. Just like Josh Jobe got that pick, he got a contract extension. That was Josh Jobe last year. They found him off the Eagles practice squad. Like, the ability to get these guys. They find cornerbacks who can tackle and learn the system.

Oh, that was big.

The Pop Douglas tackle on that, on that short pass to the left, I easily thought Pop was going to get that. And everyone was flying around in the Seattle secondary tonight, even though it was backups. I thought McDonald was incredible. I mean, he had Drake Maye on his heels the entire game. They would send an all-out blitz. Patriots are having to call timeouts. I, I thought McDonald completely cemented himself. Like, this was such a Bill, you've been talking about this all offseason, that like, even though Seattle won the Super Bowl, they almost feel like a, like a fluke or a nobody believes in this team. And this felt like McDonald was like, I'm the best coach in the league.

Yeah.

And I, I think he is. I mean, I, I certainly watched with the stuff they did today and how they kind of undressed the Pats as, as the game went along. And yet on that last drive, Pats had a 4th and 2, like what was it, on their own 32? Mm-hmm. Which I thought was really ballsy 'cause there was still enough time left to punt. You had 3 timeouts. And they just said, fuck it. And they get it. Then they have 3rd and 19 because Will Campbell, I think it was Will Campbell, back-to-back drives with huge penalties by Will Campbell.

Yeah.

Not awesome. Right after Collinsworth talked him up. Yeah.

3rd and 19, they cut it to 4th and 9. They go for it at midfield and they get it on that Matt Collins play, which Collinsworth, Collinsworth did a great job today. He called like, oh man, amazing. 7 plays. Like he was calling it out. He called out the JSN play on the, Yeah. 4th and 1. But they, it's, they're putting together this drive of like, holy shit, they're doing this in Seattle. This is the toughest place to play in the league. They're converting these crazy 4th downs even though they don't have AJ Brown. And then it all falls apart 'cause Drake just, just loses it. I, I gotta say, guys, there was about an hour there with AJ Brown, especially that one. What was it like a 3rd and 10?

Mm-hmm.

And he just had that slant for the easy 15. And it was like, oh man, it was like putting down the top on the highway. Just like, let's fucking go.

That's, that's the AJ Brown experience. For one play you're like, wow, this guy looks like a Ferrari. And then you—

oh my Lord.

And then what happens with the Ferrari? Like blows a gasket and you're like, well, all right, I guess I'll, I guess I'll drive it again in 2 months.

Right. And he gets more hype than JSN who, you know, just had a typically awesome game, somehow was left uncovered on a 4th and 1. Runs for 40-plus yards. And, uh, all right, there's, there's a lot to discuss on this. We're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna come back. We're gonna go through some angles. We also— I, I think this is one of the random craziest fantasy days we've ever had.

Yeah.

Um, and I wanna talk about that too. And then, uh, I'm gonna drink some cyanide to end the podcast. So that's all, that's all coming up next right after the break. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Thursday Night Football is back. FanDuel is giving you a reason to celebrate with every single touchdown. That's right, Niners versus Rams, every touchdown pays. Here's how it works: opt in, use your token on an eligible bet, then sit back and watch the touchdowns add up. Stribling, the rookie receiver on the Niners, if you think he's going to score in this game because the Niners are more rested, well, knock yourself out. He's +360, I think, for anytime TD, +380, somewhere in that range. Every time either team finds the end zone though, you'll get bonus bets. Doesn't matter which team scores. Every touchdown can mean more bonus bets coming your way. So stay, stay tuned, pay attention, download the FanDuel app to get started. 21+ select states or 18+ DC, Kentucky, Wyoming. Opt-in required. Must apply bonus token to eligible wager. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply, including Minimum wager requirement.

See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by one of my best friends in life, NFL Sunday Ticket. Man, I missed it. Kickoff's coming. Yeah, we're getting close. We're within a month. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get every game every Sunday. All in one place, and it's magnificent. And there's no other way to follow the NFL season. I'm so mad I didn't get YouTube TV until a couple years ago because, um, it's the best. New users, that might include you, can get NFL Sunday Ticket for 8 payments of just $30 a month. You heard me correctly. New users pay $240 or 8, 8 non-cancelable payments of $30 a month. First charged at purchase. Availability varies with NFL Sunday Ticket for out-of-market games and YouTube TV for local and national games. YouTube TV required. Terms, restrictions, and embargoes apply. Commercial use excluded. No refunds. I just complained about the Ke'Shawn Booty trade for the entire break. Um, didn't need that guy. Who needs insurance for a guy who caught like 15 huge deep balls last year and AJ Brown lasted, uh, An hour.

Uh, I don't wanna talk about the Pats all the time. We could circle back later. So Sam Darnold, what are we thinking? Who outta the 3 of you guys, who's the number one, uh, amateur injury expert? Who is the Dr. David Chao of this group?

Outta the 3? I feel like Craig probably.

I would give it to myself, but to be honest, I thought it was a knee and then I thought it was an ankle. And then when I found out it was a hip, I mean, I have no idea what's going on in there. Hip injuries can go in any direction. So I feel like we have no idea if Darnold— I thought he was gonna tough it out and come back in the second half when I saw the injury. And now it looks like we have no idea.

Schefter just tweeted. Do you want me to read his, his report here? So, uh, from Adam Schefter, he's been at Harborview Medical Center, which is a big hospital in Seattle. CT scan on his hip. The initial test was encouraging but inconclusive, and Darnold is now scheduled to undergo an MRI. So at least it's not the worst news imaginable. Um, I don't know, it, it, to me, I'm like, my gut just tells me he's probably gonna be back this year. I don't think this is a season-ending injury, but who knows.

Drew Lock, I never thought— like, if you're talking— if we're doing backup power rankings, I don't think he's in the bottom half of those rankings. I would probably put him in the top 10, right? Is that crazy, Heifetz?

He—

I think Drew Lock is ironically a lot of what we criticized Sam Darnold for a year ago when we were not sure how Sam Darnold would be, which, which is Drew Lock is I mean, self-described a gunslinger who never really— I mean, he came to the NFL, he told Peter King, like, I never really saw receivers open. I kind of just trusted my arm and let it rip. He's kind of like how Brett Favre was. I don't know how much he's reading defenses and stuff, and he's had to learn all that. I think he's not necessarily the kind of quarterback you would pair with like an elite defense.

No.

Like, it's not, you know, it's not like a Tyrod Taylor game management style thing.

Neither is Darnold, though.

Yeah, like a Jameis.

Yeah. He's kind of like a mini Jameis.

He's part Jameis. Yeah.

He's got like a little James Baker to him.

Where's James?

I feel— James, get rid of the I.

It's James Winston.

I, I just feel like, like Drew Lock with a lead is almost a disaster, but Drew Lock down 10, you're like, you know what, he needs a little adversity. He needed a field goal.

That's a great point.

I think you saw that tonight because him losing is almost more to his style where he ripped a couple passes in there. I mean, the 3rd and 22 where he got like 21.5 yards, I think JSN got that first down. That was a pivot point in the game too, because I, I, I think Jason got the first. I think that honestly AJ Barner probably would've got the tush push, but they, you know, kind of called that like ticky-tack penalty. But I thought Drew Lock actually had a bunch of moments where he looked good, but I don't know if I want him protecting the lead. So it's a huge loss for any game time Darnold misses.

It is funny how many of these quarterbacks that you would just never trust as your full-time starter, but they can have these flashes like Drew Lock had that rollout on the drive that ended up being a football, but it's just like, man, this guy runs like a gazelle.

This is—

were we missing out? Were we missing out on Drew Lock? Was this in here the whole time?

And then he put Spillane into the grave right there.

Yeah.

So my whole thing with Lock is I, I, have you ever watched his college basketball highlights or high school basketball highlights? I'm like, I still believe somehow, 'cause he's like really good at basketball. But I would say the one, like, look, Locke, but don't forget he also threw that touchdown to Cooper Kupp that got called back on the procedural thing.

Yeah.

That was kind of the big thing here is, and I was saying to these guys during the game, like, you kind of forget how, just how hard it is to run an offense during an NFL game. There's so many procedural things that Locke screwed up.

Yeah. He had to delay a game at a terrible point.

The field shift was his fault.

I mean, the whole game was messy. I mean, especially the first half, it was very, they always talk about how week 1 is really just an extension of the preseason and you, you, I forget it every year. And then you watch Week 1 and you're like, this is barely football. These guys don't know what they're doing. There's like a million timeouts and offsides and false starts. It was messy for 2 and a half quarters.

That's the other thing worth saying. I don't want to pile on.

Well, that's not true.

I actually really do want to pile on. This game should have been worse. I know this was a bad loss, but Drew Lock, Drew Lock cost them a— he tossed them 4 points when he had the illegal shift to Cooper Kupp. That should have been a touchdown instead of a field goal. And then he also kind of cost them points later in the dra— like later in the game when he had another penalty, like the delay of game. I, that right there is 8 points. Like that's more than a possession basically. Like this game actually could have been worse.

You were making me feel better that the Pats lost by more, but then apparently there was a Netflix poll, should Drake maybe be his name? And it was 88% yes. I really hate Sal. Like, I, I don't know, Sal and I might have some real issues this season. I might, I might have to do all the unders in the Dallas and just really, we, we might be having real issues. 2026 Patriots offensive line looked better. Campbell still had a couple things, but for the most part, it was at least better than it was in the Super Bowl last year. I, can they just be a middle-of-the-road offensive line?

Sure.

A couple of the guys from the draft that looked pretty good. They mi— they really missed Trevion tonight.

Mm-hmm.

You know, Rhamondre was just out there basically the whole game. I think there was, a couple, especially like with the younger secondary. I think there's a couple plays for him. The booty trade looks worse than ever. I didn't understand it when it happened. I understand it less now. We'll see with AJ. The big thing that's changed this year is that every Mike Vrabel halftime interview is hilariously funny now. When they, with the announcer, when they're asking him what happened out there. And I don't know, it's just hard not to think about Sedona, Arizona, whatever.

What happened out there?

He's like, out where?

Out in Sedona or on the field?

My wife happened to be sitting next to me. She barely watched the game, but was there for the halftime interview. And she did it and they, they, he did it. And my wife was just like, I don't know, I just don't trust him anymore. And just left the room. And I was like, that's it? You're leaving me on that? But I didn't know if I would think about the offseason with him during the game, but I thought about it 20 times. I don't know how you guys felt.

It's, it's definitely still there. I, Mike Vrabel must have been in the production booth cutting to Romeo Doubs' face over, he's like, cut back to Doubs, cut back to Doubs. Get off me. Poor Doubs is sitting on the bench. They cut to him 4 different times in over 2 minutes.

I know.

Yeah. Doubs played like De'Jon Love. In retrospect, it was weird. Romeo Doubs just bringing that giant helmet around with him everywhere. You know what I mean?

It, that drop he had, it felt like maybe they had a chance to get, and then they kept the drive going, but no, the next play was a pick.

After that draft. Oh, it was—

oh, that's right. You're right.

Yeah.

It was the second to last draft. Every time Dobbs was involved with anything, it felt like it went terribly. And this was somebody they were really counting on and thought he was gonna make a dramatic difference. Obviously they traded next year's first for AJ Brown. I'm not ready to talk about that on a live Netflix draft podcast when we're 0-1. But, but for that moment that AJ looked like he was good, it's like we've drafted that receiver with those kind of tools 12 times and have gone 0 for 12. And it was just nice to be like, okay, we finally have it. And here's Matt Collins and here's Dobbs. And this, the hypothetical Patriots felt like they lasted for about 10 minutes. Yeah, the Vrabel thing is, is, it's just weird. I don't know what week it's gonna stop being weird. Have you guys ever dealt with anything with your week-to-week football team or sports team or anything where there was some off-the-field thing you couldn't stop kind of thinking about?

Steelers are a super normal team. They have—

that's right.

Oh, that's right. Craig's a Steelers fan.

There's been no issues with any Steelers player last 10 years. I don't think everyone's been normal.

Yeah.

Last 20 years were fine. They went great. And then the Seahawks, I thought Price looked, I mean, he, it's not like he had 30 carries, but he certainly has the burst.

That's, you know.

Oh yeah. DK, you must have been pumped.

Oh yeah. He had like, he just clearly has juice as a runner, which is something they definitely need. I mean, they've got Holani and they have Emmanuel Wilson who are kind of like, You know, just pickup truck running backs. And I think, I think that Price could be the guy that— it's kind of like the Travion Henderson thing. Like, he just gives them some speed, some, some big play potential on the ground. They were really good. This was kind of been talked about in the preseason. They're really good on wide zone runs. This is something that I think Price is just really good. So like, they basically string it, string it out to the end and then to the outside, and then he'll just cut upfield. He did that several times. I thought he looked great.

So yeah, I mean, what'd you think, Hyfetz?

I thought Price was awesome. I mean, Jadarion Price was awesome at Notre Dame too. I mean, again, it's weird the first 2 running backs taken in the first round were Notre Dame, but Jadarion Price, if he went back to college, would've been like a $3 million NIL player. He's legit and he had all this explosiveness at Notre Dame and he just didn't play a ton because he didn't get— he didn't really catch like— I think he caught less than 15 catches in college because He tore his Achilles and then Jeremiah Love was like Reggie Bush, but then he didn't get goal line stuff because he fumbled kind of early in the season and he had a couple inopportune fumbles. But I mean, he was an incredible kick returner. He's just an ex— he's a human highlight reel. And I thought that the zone running and everything, it was frankly way more in sync, the Seahawks running game, than I thought it would be. And he did a way better Ken Walker impression in the Super Bowl than I ever thought he'd be able to do in his debut. I thought it was like really encouraging, especially once Drew Lock came in.

Yeah.

So he was 10 for 52, 2 catches. It felt— rookie running backs, where do we want to get from a carry standpoint, Craig? We're like at— if we're using like the Jahmyr Gibbs kind of— it's too— you want to be around 200 carries or less for the season?

For any guy you want to actually be relevant, like you need him to be touching the ball like 15 times a game. And I think Jahdarian Price already getting 12 in Week 1, like definitely think he's going to get there. This is just— I feel like these Week 1 games are just like survive and advance. Even if you lose, it's like, just, just get through the game. Nobody get hurt. And I feel like both these teams, it's like, I know Seattle won the game, amazing comeback, but they're down Darnold. The Pats are now down AJ Brown. Trevion Henderson's hurt.

Like, it's just a war of attrition.

It's a war of attrition. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know who you feel better. I mean, you obviously don't feel good about New England, but Seattle doesn't have Sam Darnold going forward. Like, I don't— right. I don't know who you'd rather want to be going forward. DK, how do you feel about that?

I mean, look, I'm still a little bit hopeful. It sounds like you know, based on Mike McDonald's, uh, talk after the game that they're pretty, they're feeling pretty good about it. Like they, they maybe, uh, dodged a bullet on this one. He didn't fracture his hip.

Yeah.

So I'm feeling a little bit encouraged that like maybe he'll only miss a few games. I, I don't know if that means that they're just gonna roll with, with Locke or try to make a trade of some sort, or I, I highly doubt they'll do that. I think they'll just roll with Locke. But, um, right now at the very least, I'm feeling a little bit encouraged. Like he's not gonna be out the whole year. If he was out the whole year, Obviously that's pretty devastating.

Here's the thing, the Seahawks have the best coach in the league. They have one of the best 3 defenses. They have one of the 2 or 3 best receivers. It looks like their running game's gonna be fine. They have a good offensive line. They have a good home field advantage. They have the pedigree and the chip on their shoulder from last year. And if they have to have Drew Lock for 8 games, I, I think they'll be fine.

Yeah.

AJ Brown, Andrew Callahan, good follow. Patriots Twitter is elite. I don't know if you guys are aware, we just have a lot of good beat reporters.

Oh yeah.

Callahan, Callahan would— is my like dark alley guy at the NFL Combine.

He— how, how big is he? What is he like?

He's like Vrabel. Yeah.

Yeah.

Could he, could he beat Brian Curtis in a fight or no?

Uh, definitely. No offense to Brian Curtis.

Are you kidding? Brian Curtis, he's killed guys.

You seen Curtis lately?

What do you mean?

You didn't hear about the Brian Curtis bar fights in Texas?

Oh, I heard about those. Yeah.

That should be a narrative pod we do.

Brian Curtis is like, he has the strength of like 5 people. Andrew Callahan said AJ Brown just walked outta the Patriots locker room wearing a boot on his right foot. But Romeo Doubs said his message to the receivers were, he told us that everything was going to be all right. What does that mean?

DK Metcalf just said there's a city underneath Antarctica, so I don't know what they're teaching at Ole Miss. So.

Did he tell them everything was gonna be all right because we're all human beings, and next day you wake up and it's a brand new day. Or is— was his ankle gonna be all right? I don't know.

Good question.

Good question. Uh, the boot on the right foot is not how I wanted. Uh, I was gonna talk about this with you guys later, but I, I have the— in the fantasy league I really care about with Sal and those guys where we vote somebody out, I have the Drake Maye, AJ Brown hookup.

Oh no.

And, uh, and that hookup has gone horribly.

It's—

the hookup is going like the first date in Obsession, basically.

So far.

Pretty soon that I'm gonna be being made a cat sandwich or something. The, the biggest first half plays, just to go back to the Pats blowing that game, 3rd and 5, Rhamondre, minute left, handoff, and then punt. And this is something Vrabel did a little bit last year too, where he basically like, he did this in the Denver game in the playoffs last year and it actually worked. I'm good. I think we might have enough points. We'll get 10 this half. Maybe we end with 13. I don't think Seattle can get to 16. I just fundamentally don't agree with that, guys. What do you— Hyphens, when, when a team does that, do you— don't you feel like it's— they're doomed?

You say the end of the half when they were up 7-nothing and they kind of—

7-nothing.

Yeah.

I, I'm okay with it because for a variety of reasons. Mike Vrabel is— I mean, look, he's an incredible coach. Like, they— he got that Patriots team to the Super Bowl. And the truth is, I thought the Patriots roster was fine. And he got him to the Super Bowl because he's a great in-game coach. He's frankly the only person in the Bill Belichick tree that's learned all the Bill Belichick rules. And if he's like, it's 7-nothing, Drew Lock's not going to score any more points, I'm fine with him just at that point on, like, kind of ending the game and not like wanting to move on. I think he was afraid of Drake Maye doing something stupid at the end of the half.

It was the Jerry Sittum Broncos game plan.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think Vrabel was afraid Drake Maye would do something dumb. And he was right. Drake Maye just did it dumb at the end of the game when they needed him to do something.

This is the runner-up MVP. Like, why would you play that way though? Why play scared? That's how I feel.

I don't think he was afraid Maye was gonna do something dumb. I think he just wanted to bet on Drew Lock making mistakes and they wanted to play safe.

He's a defensive coach.

Let me put it this— to me, this test is the most like clear way of telling whether there's something was right or wrong. When the Patriots were doing that, I was celebrating. I'm a Seahawks fan. I was like, hell yeah, go ahead and do that. I'm happy with that.

If they would've been aggressive, oh, it's the best test.

Continue to like push and, you know, you like try to take advantage of the situation. The Seahawks felt like they were really reeling in the first half. I felt like they were on the ropes. And then I think the Patriots kind of gave 'em a break.

And the crowd was dead too.

Totally.

Here's the other thing you have, and they, the whole first quarter, they're as conservative as all hell. The Patriots, I have AJ Brown. This is the first game where I get to take 'em outta the garage and give 'em a little spin around, right? I'm not just going 20 miles an hour around my neighborhood. Like, I'm taking AJ Brown on the highway. I'm sure you're watching the game, DK, like, what, like being like, oh shit, they're gonna test our secondary. They're gonna check one deep. And they just never did. And the only real AJ play was that one slant thing, but they never unleashed him.

Yep.

And now with Booty out, I don't really feel like they have another deep ball person. So you, you watch what happened to them in the, in the second half, Craig, and it was like, Um, this was kind of the Super Bowl offense all over again.

They've kind of— now that I feel like they're just last year's Patriots again, where I'm like, can you trust Romeo Doubs? Booty's gone. You have— it's just Matt Collins and Pop Douglas again is kind of what you have to deal with. I was also annoyed. I feel like every time Maye ran it, things— it went well, but it's always scrambling with him. He led the league in scrambles last year as a quarterback, and I feel like they just need to design rushes for him more like Josh Allen. Every time it does, it goes well, and they refuse to do it.

They did in the 4th quarter. They ran the Denver play.

Yeah.

The Denver play was a naked bootleg where nobody knew he was doing it. This time I think it was designed, but I just think he beats every single edge guy he can beat around the corner and get outta the way. So the Pats schedule, they're Steelers at home next week, at Jaguars, at Bills, Vegas, and the Jets. And they were looking like that could have been 5-1 and not, and now who knows. Now you have the Seahawks who win today. Tomorrow is Rams-Niners. If you're ever gonna get a Rams loss, that's tomorrow when they flew. I had a friend who's in Australia and saw the Rams coming into their hotel. And I was like, how'd they look? And he said, they looked like a team that had just been on a 15-hour flight. I was like, great, good sign for tomorrow. Niners +4, +3.5, whatever. So you could get the Niners beating the Rams and you could have DK, a 1-game lead heading into the first Sunday of the NFL season. That's not bad.

Yeah, I'm, I'm into that. I, what it, what is, so I assume your take is that the 49ers did it right in terms of like traveling there a week early and—

No, here's my take. I know you guys have talked about this too, but we can all do it together. I think the Niners did it. It's, it's gonna lead to a win tomorrow would be my bet. I think long-term it's gonna be bad because everybody says the longer you stay over there, the harder it is to adjust when you come back.

Catching up.

Whereas the Rams are basically like not throwing away the game, but, you know, rolling the dice with this game going in and out. But then when they come back, they'll be fine for week 2. So it's almost like a short-term, long-term thing.

The only quibble I'd have with that, Bill, is everyone like the whole, well, I went for a week for Australia and I came back. No one's ever flown to Australia for a day and then flew back like 30 hours later except for the one scout they— the Rams sent to test this whole theory. And so I, I don't— I, I kind of keep wondering if the Rams are going to be just as troubled.

Who was it?

I know, did he have to audition? Like, how did, how did he win that job? That's—

Justin Craig would have done that.

I would have done that immediately. Did you see the plane that the Rams flew in? It was some special plane. It's like the biggest commercial plane ever, and it had enough laydown seats for every player on the team.

Sounds great. Should we get one for The Ringer?

I think we should.

So they auditioned somebody, Heifetz?

They— I believe what they did is they sent at least 2 people, and one got to stay there for 7 days or 8 days, and then one had to come home after 30 hours. And imagine drawing the short straw and not getting the week in Australia. You have to fly to Australia, get 1 day of jet lag, and immediately come home. And they tested it, and they were like, you know what, screw it, let's just try.

Yeah, the guy who went for 8 days just partied his ass off.

Legal brothels. The other funny thing about this is it's this, this huge experiment, but the smallest sample size possible. I know, like a baseball team, like we've tried 2 bunts and here are the results for our entire season.

A million variables too.

Yeah.

Meanwhile, like whether Stafford sleeps is more important than probably 30 other players.

Right. What's— has anybody been on a plane for 15 hours?

I have.

You have? Where'd you go?

I flew— when I went to Africa, I had to fly from Nairobi to Qatar, which was 8 hours, and then immediately get back on a plane in Qatar and do Qatar to LA, which was 16 hours.

Did you have to play a football game the next day?

Uh, I, I didn't.

I—

yeah, I went on a run the next day though. It was really difficult. So, uh, Sind nicht alle Laufschuhe so geformt?

Nein, du brauchst Altras.

Altra?

Altras sind geformt wie deine Füße, mit einer fußförmigen Zehenbox. Einfach viel bequemer. Bezwinge deinen Lauf mit Hallenzehen.

Okay, das klingt traumhaft.

Mehr Komfort, Kraft und Dynamik. Alles durch die Passform. Altra versteht das einfach. Altra. Stay out there.

DK, what do you think of the game tomorrow?

I mean, yeah, I think this, this jet lag thing is obviously a huge deal, but I don't know, I'm, I'm kind of just like with you where I, I feel like the 49ers are being overlooked. Just the, the Rams have had such an awesome offseason on paper, you know, getting Garrett and yeah, Donald coming back outta retirement, like just like my actual nightmare thing that could happen for the, the top rival for the Seahawks. But yeah, I mean, I think the 49ers are still good. I was like, you have to remind people they won like 12 games last year. They were still really good.

Right.

And now they're theoretically a little healthier, although that could be not lasting very long. I don't know. I just think Shanahan—

So you think they're alive? Yeah, it's 3.5.

I do. I do.

Just take the points. I wish it was the Ringer 107 eligible. This whole thing is insane. And I like the fact that there is a team you can get 3.5 points. They're somewhat evenly matched. I— the Rams are a better team, but this is in frickin' Australia. No one knows what's going to happen.

Yeah. Now I'm nervous because everybody— now that all of us are on the Niners, one of us should probably take the Rams. But I, I agreed as well. I was like, well, I think the Rams are more or less punting this game. Donald's not flying there. I, I just feel like there was even quotes from the, the president, Kevin Demoff, was like, we don't need to be there for a week. Like, we'll, we'll focus on—

Yeah, he got a little feisty.

He's like, we'll focus on expanding the league the other 51 weeks. We're just trying to get through. I feel like the Rams are like, we're old, we're just gonna get there, get out. If we lose, it's fine. We're gonna be okay.

Yeah, 'cause I thought today, I thought was actually a pretty easy the under, the under was I think 44.5. The Pats were 3.5 and a lot of people had Pats in the under parlay, tease, whatever. And every version of that hit tomorrow. Everybody's on the Niners.

Yeah.

What are the odds 2 days in a row everybody's on the right side of football bets? 'Cause I, I really feel like almost every version of today's game was a win, right? 'Cause even if you had Seattle, you probably had them in a moneyline or a moneyline parlay, whatever. But this was Seattle winning but not covering was like the perfect result for normal bettors. Yeah. And then tomorrow everyone on the Niners makes me nervous.

It was a perfect result for bettors, but a kind of a catastrophe for fantasy football. I feel the Drake Maye, AJ Brown, pretty much everybody except Jaxon Smith-Njigba was a mess.

Well, let's talk about today, that being one of the most traumatic fantasy days ever. Darnold, I don't think was starting for anybody, but he was definitely, well, a backup for people.

If you had a 2-quarterback league.

Or if you had a 15, yeah, 2-quarterback league.

Yeah.

Or like a 15-team league. AJ Brown, who was the sexy receiver, right? He was one of the, one of the 8 or 9 biggest value guys, but is one of the most fun people to go in on. 'Cause it's like new team, he could be Randy Moss. But then the other thing that happens, one of the craziest stories in, I think, fantasy football history, Brock Bowers.

Hmm.

Waiting until everybody had done their draft and then announcing he needed meniscus surgery. What the hell was that? I don't remember that ever happening.

It was like an hour after Clint Kubiak told reporters at a press conference that everyone was looking good to play for the game.

You can see Kubiak deciding to lie in the middle.

It was, it was a very interesting choice of words. It was kind of like an, I've been immunized, where they were like, hey, is Bowers— is everyone— is Gente and Bowers going to play? And he was like, I'm planning on having everyone out there ready to go. What do you mean by everybody? Very tricky.

I have spent a lot of—

Same injury as last year, Heifetz?

No, no, it was a PCL last year. I don't know exactly. Obviously, who knows? But what happened to Brock Bowers last year is like what happened to Ricky Pearsall. We had a PCL injury. Drake London had this. And for reasons I don't totally understand, they don't want to do PCL repairs the same way you do ACL repairs because long story short, there's just more risk of bringing in like a career-threatening destabilization in the knee. So they just, if they can, they let the PCL heal on their own. Sometimes it's like Brock Bowers where it goes well, and sometimes it's like Ricky Pearsall where it didn't get better and they have to do the surgery later and they regret it. The Bowers thing was like, he was fine, he looked good in practice, all this stuff, and then suddenly he has a meniscus trim, which is bad. I don't know if it's a meniscus injury, if there was mobility issues in the knee, but what— I spent too much of my August hyping up Brock Bowers and AJ Brown, and there's a chance they combine for 3 catches in September.

Oh God.

And I am never going to recover from this.

Why do we do it? I don't know. Maybe we should just all not do it.

You know what I'm saying?

Fantasy football and golf. I'm like, why do we even play?

Just don't.

Yeah.

Why do we do it?

I, I sometimes I play in a, a Survivor fantasy football league and, and like, like the show Survivor where I like, yeah, you draft players, but the way you do it is you watch the first episode and then you pick the players. I think you should do the same. We should just do drafts after week 1.

Just do drafts after week—

that's not bad.

It's not worth it. Everybody gets hurt week 1. It's still basically preseason.

So week, week 18, it should go through week 18. We're always afraid of week 18. Maybe we should be more afraid of week 1. afraid of Week 1.

Or you just do Week 2 to Week 17. We got a 16-game season. Isn't that what we all wanted anyway? Let's just do that.

I did, 'cause I know Deshaun Bailey is gonna be the number 1 fab fantasy pickup after Week 1, 'cause he's gonna have 7 catches for 140 yards. He's gonna be the guy calling it right now. Clip this out, put it on Sunday night. So I just, I picked him up in the league with Sal. I just spent a dollar on him. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna spend the dollar now instead of the $28 after Week 1. Got him in a guillotine league too. And that's just like, this is how it goes, 'cause fantasy football's stupid and DeSean Bailey is gonna have 7 catches, 128 yards, and a touchdown.

Well, and you had, you had AJ Brown in that league, right? So you knew, you knew you were gonna have to find a backup.

I knew, I knew, I knew AJ would be in a walking boot. All right, so traumatic fantasy day. Interesting sports media television day as Mike Tomlin debuted. For NBC. What did we think? What'd you think, Craig? This is your coach.

I mean, I think Tomlin is a great quote. I don't— I, I feel like they're using him in kind of a weird way. I feel like they're trying to Gen Z-ify Mike Tomlin. I saw him doing TikTok dances. He recently said he's been playing Minecraft for the last 12 years, which kind of upset me because the Steelers haven't won a playoff game since like 2016, and he says he spent 12 years building a city on Minecraft. on Minecraft. But I, I mean, I still think Tomlin's great. I thought he was a little bit kind of boilerplate, and I want to kind of unleash him a little more, but, but I still think he's good.

It was bizarre, like the beginning of that thing. They, they really— they made him Jason Garrett for like most of that, and then he just like— you could tell that all the media training they gave Jason Garrett, as Mike Tomlin kept going, he like slipped out of it and just became himself. He's like, look, the, the nickel cornerback, you got to deliver the baby. Like, you gotta, you gotta be there and deliver the baby. You're the one who's up to And then he's like— and then they're like, oh, there's Mike Tomlin with his Tomlinisms.

Back to you, Jason.

And it was like such a strange—

I know, they're leaning into it too much.

Yeah, yeah. You can't try this hard to establish somebody as a TV person. They either have it or they don't. And I agree with you, Craig. Like, I thought it's like you get Daniel Day-Lewis, you don't put him in the wrong Missy, you know? Like, you put him— you put him in a drama, you lean into the fact that he's an awesome dramatic Mike Tomlin is this super intense, charismatic whatever. I don't want to see him doing TikToks, and I don't want to see them turning him into a TV character. To me, he has real command of the TV. When he talks, I'm like, oh, Mike Tomlin's speaking. So I just think this has been an NBC issue with all their studio shows, but they try to make it— they try to be intentionally jovial.

Mm-hmm.

And they try to make everybody characters. And Jason Garrett's just sitting there grinning like a fucking serial killer, like every episode. So he's like Dexter.

I just— I don't like seeing Mike Tomlin in a suit. Like, put him in a hoodie. I don't want him in a quarter zip. I don't want him in a suit. It's just the whole thing.

He can just wear his Steelers gear. Yeah, yeah.

They should be dressing him like he's one of the leads in CSI: New York or something. Like, he shouldn't look like he's doing studio stuff. DK, did you learn anything from him today?

No. Yeah, not really. But dude, do we ever really? I, I feel like Look, you already mentioned it, but I, I do wanna call it back. Like Chris Collinsworth calling several of the biggest plays in the game before they happened.

He was all over it.

I was like, this is exactly what I'm looking for from a, from a, you know, a color commentator or a play, the guy who's calling the plays or whatever is like understanding the situation and the formation and the defense. Like when, when that JSN play happened, he was like, this might be the only time the Seahawks get JSN lined up one-on-one with a cornerback in the entire game. And then lo and behold, they, you know, think about like a, you don't expect a team to run a play action thing on 4th and 2 in their own end. Like, you know, that was, I think, a pretty ballsy play. So yeah, I just give credit to Collinsworth 'cause I do feel like I learned from him, you know, at least one thing.

He's still, still throwing his fastball. He still is great at capturing the moment. You know, Drake Maye's falling apart and is it Mike? I don't know what Drake Maye's looking at there. I just don't know, Mike. And, and You know, he kind of captures how you're feeling. I thought he was great.

Craig can do it. Craig can do the Collinsworth. He's scared. Come on, Sal's not here, Craig.

You gotta do it. Sal's good at it. I don't, I don't know if I have it as good as Sal, but I just, I, Mack Hollins, Mike, Mack Hollins over the middle. He's like, Mike, what a play. What a throw, Mike.

Drake May, just so good.

He did call that Mack Hollins 4th and 9.

He did both 4th downs.

He called inbreaker. He's like, Drake May loves these inbreakers to Mack Hollins.

Mm-hmm.

Any other stuff we want to hit in the fantasy or real NFL universe? Do you feel like the NFL changed today, DK, in any way?

I mean, they did do a camera on the fish throw in Pike Place Market. Pretty revolutionary, I felt like. Craig and Heifetz hadn't seen that before I told them about it. They didn't know that the fish toss was a thing. Still shocking to me.

What, what is the Pittsburgh equivalent of the Pike Place Throwing the fish. What do they do for the Steelers games?

Fermante brothers.

Just make a Fermante's.

Putting french fries in sandwiches. I don't know.

Boston, they always go to Faneuil Hall, but meanwhile the game's being played an hour away in Foxborough, which is almost right—

I mean, they do that a lot. It's always like the Santa Monica Pier and then they go back to Inglewood. Right.

It's like, let's go back to, uh, take a right, right after the Target in Inglewood and it's right there. Yeah, the Pike Place thing.

What—

so what else would you do, Danny?

What else would I do to revolutionize the Pike Place throw?

No, what else would you do for Seattle footage? Like, would you show like the Sub Pop?

Sure.

Like where— like, would you start like leaning into like the old— here's where the Seattle Supersonics used to play?

Oh yeah, that's good. Like the old KeyArena. Yeah.

I just think people, they think we want to see fish being thrown.

Seattle.

I like that they put the camera on the fish and that's good because it's kind of like what Josh Jobe was seeing, right, when he caught Drake Maye's final interception. You know, it was kind of like POV.

I love it. The Giants are about to get their ass kicked.

He is taking advantage of this situation right now.

While we're here, Bill, honestly, was the peak of the NFL season for you literally the NFL season being like, but first, Pearl Jam?

Well, I was, I was in a whole different situation because my daughter was playing a game in pouring rain and, uh, and wind in Boston, actually, against Suffolk. So I was watching that game and trying to watch the Pats, and it was like second half of her game, the Red Sox were trying to come back against the Angels, and then the Pats game started. And I'm just trying to watch everything all at once. And all of a sudden, Darnold just looks like he's walking off the field. And I'm just too old. I thought my head was gonna explode. I was like, is Darnold— Leaving the field. Is it Drew Lock time? And there's 10 minutes left in Zoe's game. So I don't know, I, I was, I was, that was probably the peak of my NFL season because now it's looking pretty grim for the Pats. Listen, Raheem did all these stats today on Ringer Wise Guys, like these, the, the Super Bowl matchup. It's, I think it's your 0-5 this century when they, when they do it as the opening game. There's all this stuff about the Super Bowl loser after. And you never want to think it's your team.

What happened with the Shaun Alexander team the next year? Probably not great, right, Danny?

I'm trying to remember. They were not nearly as good.

Yeah, probably.

I was talking to— I think I was talking to Van about this. Like, the fans kind of turned on Alexander a year or 2 after his big season because he kind of started just going down too easy and trying to preserve his body, I think, late in his career. And people were kind of starting to turn on him. Yeah, remember when we used to get mad at athletes about that? Yeah. Now it's like, I kind of get it for sure.

Yeah. 'Cause when I was growing up, Franco Harris used to go outta bounds over taking a hit and everybody was like, pussy.

People get so mad.

They're like furious at him. Look at this loser.

I was at a game. I remember they were booing Shaun Alexander. Yeah. 'Cause he like, you know, went down before he got hit or whatever. And I was like, man, the tide turns quickly.

That'd be a great podcast. That wouldn't do well. But like, 'cause we had Wade Boggs on the Red Sox. who used to try to draw walks. So it'd be like 3rd and 2nd, one out, he's hitting like .360, but he'd like work the pitcher to like a, you know, 5-pitch walk. And the fans would like get mad. They would like boo. It's like, what are you doing? Why are you being so selfish drawing that walk? And now 40 years later, that's exactly what you're supposed to do.

Meanwhile, now it's like, Puka, go down, go down, Puka.

Right.

It is funny though. We've been joking about this on our show, the amount of things that like should have been done in sports earlier, but guys were just afraid of looking like wimps. Like, my favorite is catchers should have been splooting for like 100 years. Catchers just crouched, and now all of them stick a leg out. And the answer is, well, we just thought you kind of looked like a bitch. Well, and like, same with hockey. Like, they used to just stand up on 2 feet because no one wanted to like get on their knees. And like, that's it. They did that for like 40 years.

I think the problem is that it's called splooting. Who's— oh, I would never do that. Come up with a better name.

Call it something cool. Thankfully, we still have the UFC if you just wanna see people with no disre— no regard for their bodies or heads or anything. What were your football picks for this season? Although Collinsworth made a great point today about, people ask me for my Super Bowl pick. I don't even know why I have to give one. Everyone gets hurt every week. I was like, that's genius. We should use that for every Ringer podcast.

I know. That's what I'm saying. Thank you. That's what I said and they made fun of me.

Bill, on our last episode, we made our Super Bowl picks and DK kind of refused to make one. He's like, I don't know who's gonna win. It's week 1. 1. How am I supposed to know?

I said the Seahawks.

All right, Craig.

No, you— after Craig and DK Bill had the biggest fight I've seen them have, you know, we can go run about this.

We can run the tape back. I said the Seahawks and then Craig goes, really? You think that? And I was like, I don't know, maybe.

Oh, and you got mad he didn't have conviction?

Yeah.

He's like, I don't know, how am I supposed to know? He's like, ask me in week 15, maybe.

I was like, I didn't answer. I didn't know Darnold was gonna get hurt in 6 plays, you know.

What was yours?

I picked the Bills.

Yeah. See, I, I was thinking about that 'cause Sal had the Bills. This is why predictions are stupid. You're picking something that's never happened before and will probably never happen.

I just think everybody—

People are like, I think it's their year. It's like, this is like when the Red Sox fans would go and bet on the Red Sox to win the World Series every year for like 50 years in Vegas. And then we actually won.

I just feel like pe— everybody likes the Texans. A lot of, you know, the Ravens are a hot team to pick. I feel like Josh Allen's the best quarterback in the league and nobody's picking them. So that feels easy to me that if for some reason, because he hasn't done it, The last 4 years, it means he'll never do it. He's like 29 years old.

I guess my— I had the Joe Brady questions is where I really landed on that. Where, 'cause McDermott, who I know it had some bad endings, but the guy was a, you know, a good, good coach there. He was a defensive coach and now they're replacing him with a guy who's never been a head coach and people are like, should be great. Whereas like Minter, I felt like, I, I just thought he was awesome on the Chargers last year. I don't know. How awesome was Joe Brady in Buffalo when you have Josh Allen and James Cook? You know, he had 2 of the best offensive players in the league.

Are you wondering about Joe Brady as coordinator or Joe Brady as head coaching, managing decision-making and all that? Or you're just wondering about the offense?

I, I just don't know how much credit he deserved for their offense. For Josh Allen, they had a top 7 or 8 offensive line. They had the best quarterback in the league and they probably had one of the 5 or 6 best running backs in the league and they scored points. So it's, it's, I don't know how much, we'll see. I guess we're gonna find out in these next 2 months. Whereas Minter, I do feel like, I do feel like something special might happen. But they, it feel, I said this on the pod on Sunday, it feels like once a year there's a coordinator that everybody kind of knows is gonna be an awesome head coach.

Yeah.

Like last year was Ben Johnson. Everybody was like, this guy's gonna be an awesome head coach. And I would, I would think it's Minter, right? Do you guys have another candidate?

No, I think— It's not him?

To take an extremely oversimplified analogy, I think if Mike McDonald's the Sean McVay of defense, the hope is that Jesse Minter could be like the Kyle Shanahan of defense. That's a tremendous label to put on anyone, but that kind of is the comp because his dad goes way back with the Harbaughs. They have a system that's kind of spreading. It is kind of similar in that what McDonald and Minter are doing, they're at the cutting edge of this thing that's cutting the McVay-Shanahan thing down at the knees. I think I had— I kind of thought the Ravens are gonna make the Super Bowl. I, I had the Rams winning. I had the Rams winning the Super Bowl. It's kind of—

Ravens.

But it's like, yeah, it's like 8, 8 teams are trying to win. The Rams are trying really hard to win the Super Bowl, which is actually more than you can say for a lot of teams. And I know that super team thing never works. I know Stafford at 38 years old making it unscathed is a whole thing. But my God, if Stafford actually is healthy again, I'm like, I, I don't know. I mean, I— the Rams, there's So good.

You know what I didn't like today? I forgot to mention this. Tomlin sitting down with Harbaugh and calling him Harbs.

I know.

He's like, I don't want you guys to like each other.

Yeah.

What, what are we doing?

I know.

I thought the Steelers and Ravens hated each other this whole time. It, it's, it's like being behind the curtain, Craig. I didn't like it.

I feel like that's more of a modern thing. Did they used to do that back in the day? Now the second, like, the careers end, I feel like rivals are now doing commercials together and they're in bits and they're on TV. I've never liked it. It's why I didn't want LeBron on the Warriors. I'm like, I, I just—

I—

we can't have Steph and LeBron on the same team. Like, what are we doing?

We're gonna pretend this is some new thing? I mean, I don't know, was it— I mean, the beginning of Space Jam has like Michael Jordan and Larry. All these guys are in the beginning. This is like everything. People used to do this as soon as they retired.

I like— I, I like animosity. I want animosity to come back.

Spitzendinger?

Ich meine, sind nicht alle Laufschuhe so geformt?

Nein, du brauchst Altras. Altra? Altras sind geformt wie deine Füße mit einer fußförmigen Zehenbox. Einfach viel bequemer. Bezwinge deinen Lauf mit Hallenzehen.

Okay, das klingt traumhaft.

Mehr Komfort, Kraft und Dynamik, alles durch die Passform. Altra versteht das einfach. Altra, stay out there.

Um, you guys did the take purge. What was the best take purge out of the three of you? It's an annual gimmick. Great idea. Craig said that you purge the takes that you don't actually want to say in the show, but you get— you basically get a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Exactly.

With the take. So what was the best one?

Well, if you don't— the non— the best non-football one was Craig saying that magicians should be the most famous people in the world, um, which I fully get behind.

That's really good.

I do.

I really respect and appreciate that.

It kind of makes no sense that David Blaine is not not as famous as like LeBron James, but that doesn't matter. I thought Hyatt said that he wanted to see Jerry Jones. He secretly wanted to see Jerry Jones win a Super Bowl, which I thought was absolutely fantastic. But we've already cursed a couple people. That's pretty good. We cursed some people already. I said that Sam Darnold was going to turn back into a pumpkin and that Brock Bowers was the most overrated pick in fantasy this year.

And so I guess—

2 for 2.

I'm 2 for 2. I don't know who the third one is going to be. They always go down in threes, so we'll see.

Um, on the magician thing.

Okay.

ABC maybe 15 years ago had a show with David Blaine, 12 to 15 years ago, where he did tricks for celebrities.

Oh, I've watched it 10 times.

Yeah.

The Harrison Ford one.

I think it's the best thing that's been on television this century. I've never been more riveted by anything. And the way people reacted to it, like real famous people.

Yeah.

Not like actually being truly authentic famous people versus like this massage thing that we're fed. by all the celebrities, but the way they were reacting to him, I don't know why that show isn't on every year. I would watch it over and over again. What happened to that show?

Everybody makes fun of magicians. I don't— I think it's because they're frustrated that they don't know how the tricks work. But every time you, you are forced to go see a magician or something, you kind of have a good time and you leave going, oh my God, how did he do that? These guys, they should be more famous. I really think—

Can this be our reward for winning Ringer 107 and not getting a prize? And then Sal and Dibundo coming in last place and going and getting to go to Vegas. Can we just go to to the Magic Castle in LA next time we're in town?

That's a great question, Bill.

We could just do that anyway.

Have you been to the Magic Castle in LA, Bill?

I went, um, early when we—

I—

it's been over 20 years since I've been there.

Was it fun? I've never been.

It was, it was okay. I've had better magician experiences.

Okay.

Um, but yeah, I feel like it should come back. The Prestige, 20th anniversary of that movie.

It's a good movie.

Um, yeah, it's, it's been on the, uh, on the rewatchables schedule a little bit.

Bill, do you remember when that guy, I don't remember his name, made the space shuttle disappear? Does that ring a bell?

I don't.

For some reason.

I don't remember that.

To Craig's point, I don't know why I remember this, but it was when I was a kid. It was probably in the '80s or '90s and someone made a space shuttle disappear on TV and I thought it was like the coolest thing I've ever seen. And I still remember it. I don't remember hardly anything these days.

It does. It does just feel like society collectively agreed that because we're annoyed that we can't figure out these guys' tricks, that we're, we're not gonna anoint them as cool people.

Where do you stand on card tricks? Is that like cousins of this, or—

Card tricks are okay. It's like that's running the ball, setting up the play action for a deep ball. But I, my friend hired a magician for his birthday for like 10 of us on a roof. This random guy came up, did tricks in front of us for an hour. It was amazing. He like emptied a Coke can and filled it back up somehow. Like these people, it, it's remarkable.

And I guess illusions, Craig, it's just, I love it.

Illusions.

It sounds like the start of Hangover 4.

Like, no.

Galifianakis gets a magician for the group and then they all wake up the next day.

Did he strip after the— after doing all that stuff or what?

I, I will say I don't like when they're in— when they include technology now, it's like, pull out your phone and open up Instagram and check my story. And then it's like some illusion is inside the story. I don't love when they do that, but—

Well, that's the internet and YouTube I think has hurt magicians too. Like people debunking the different tricks. I don't want these tricks debunked.

I mean, Pablo Torre took down Oz the Mentalist.

So, right.

Did that—

did you even have to take him down though? Wasn't—

yeah, spoiler alert, it's fake.

Well, I mean, the new magicians could never survive in that earlier, more physical league, you know? Now it's just too digital.

Yeah, so he likes the analog magician.

So Craig won the take purge with the magician thing.

Yeah, maybe.

That's the one I've been thinking about the most.

Well, speaking of Mike Tomlin, the other one I had that I do feel deep in my soul but that I don't want to admit is that I think There's a chance that Mike McCarthy goes like 12-5, wins a playoff game with the Steelers, and then everyone's like questioning if Mike Tomlin was a good coach. I do think there's a chance that happens.

I have the Steelers in the playoffs, as you know.

Yeah.

I had, oh, I have a hot, I have some hottest takes. I don't know if we're ever doing hottest take again.

I thought, I thought that was in the plans. That's not happening.

Well, it is.

No, it is.

Hot take, hot take.

So now we have the new thing we added in Sycamore, and we're gonna have this conference table. I'll just test drive one that I didn't think was good enough, but I think is good for the purpose of this. People, this is like an adult male thing where people, they wanna get together and they go, we should get a beer. Let's go get a beer. I just think we need more options when we say that. Let's get a beer is always the go-to. I don't really just wanna randomly get a beer with somebody that I haven't seen for a year and a half. So what are other things I could do with them?

I feel like saying let's get a beer though is like a disarming phrase to a man. It makes them feel comfortable.

I know, but I'm saying it's 2026. What else do— what else do we have? How about let's just go get lunch? We want to go to putt-putt?

Yeah, you want to go to mini golf?

You want to go get a matcha latte?

Can I give you a ride? I won't wear a seat belt.

Any interest?

Anybody? Um, yeah, matcha latte would be good.

Is, is that good? Okay.

I don't know, but I just feel like, hey, you want to go get a beer? Hey, I'm going to be in town. Should we go get a beer? It's like the only option that's ever been presented. I just wish there were more options.

It's a good call. But I feel like specifically with men, like, men don't get dinner. You know what I mean? I feel like you and your friends— it's like me and my friend Chris. I'm never like, we should get dinner. It's always like, let's grab a beer.

It's true. Because women converse and catch up on their lives face to face, and men have to do it shoulder to shoulder. Like, men tell each other they're, like, having a kid in the middle of talking about— like, by accident. You've probably learned, like, watching Red Sox games with someone.

Yeah. Men have to be next to each other looking out.

Yeah, right. Bill, maybe—

TV, looking at each other.

Instead of, instead of let's grab a beer, what about we should, we should catch a game?

Ooh.

Let's catch a— yeah, catch a—

Let's watch a game.

Well, not a Dodger game. Yeah, a football game.

Yeah.

Let's watch Monday night game.

So is it about the beer or the, or the time? Is it about the beer? Like, are you just done drinking beer? I just want—

I just think it's too much of a cliché. We need more options. The other one I had, I don't think this one works either for Hottest Take, is facial technology for movie theaters. We have it for sporting events. Oh, I just walk right into AMC. They know me right away. I have my thing. I'm just in. I get charged later. I just decide on a whim I want to go to a movie. I'm just saying, they, they have all our shit anyway.

Bill, there's a, there's a thing. I, I mean, I went and did this at, uh, the Mariners game the other day. It's like you just show your ID when you're going in, like you kind of flash it to them, and then you go in and you can take as many beers as you want or whatever, and you walk out and they charge you. You don't have to like check out, you just grab beers and leave. The Clippers have that technology. Sometimes it's good.

Yeah, the Clippers have that, and nobody will use it next year because nobody's ever going to a Clipper game again. But they had the same thing where you just walk and you, you kind of feel like you're looting the store. Yeah, but they're charging you the whole time. So I don't know, you guys like facial technology or no? Like that facial recognition where they walk in and they know it's like, it's Craig. He's been to 3 Clipper games this year.

Probably not.

It's Craig.

Yeah, it's a little creepy, right?

He's seen Babylon 3 times in theaters.

He didn't like Megapolis.

As a Knicks fan who really, really, really wants to attend a Knicks game this season in the Garden, I love facial recognition technology.

Oh yeah. I love you, James Dolan. This would be my first hottest take though. Okay, I'll just test drive it. America can tell us if they want it to come back. No more dogs in hotels.

You know what, Bill? I think you're 100%. We've gone—

I love dogs. I have 2 dogs. I've had 2 dogs the entire time I've lived in California, basically. I've written columns about my dogs.

I—

we have an Instagram page for my dog Murph. I love dogs. I don't want to see a dog in a hotel. And you know what else? I don't want to see your dog in a grocery store either. Keep your dog out of places where there's food.

Keep going.

I love dogs. I'm never going to bring my dog into a place where, like, people are shopping. There's produce, there's meat. Like, get it the fuck out of there. Nobody wants to see your dog. Well, well, planes— don't get me started.

Restaurants. No dogs in restaurants.

No dogs. Maybe outdoor.

Maybe.

Maybe they could sit outside beer gardens. Dogs should only be in a place where if they immediately take a shit, it's okay.

Everyone kind of chuckles.

Yeah, it's fine.

Not a plane. Not a 6-hour flight.

No, not a Target. Not a coffee shop.

Wait, Craig, did you ever tell Bill the story of the time the woman made you hold her dog on the plane?

I'll make it quick. I was flying from LA to Park City and a woman was next to me with a tiny little chihuahua on her lap. She asked if I could hold it for 20 seconds as she got situated. I said, sure. I looked over, the plane was about to take off. She was knocked out asleep and I had to take care of that dog for 3 hours.

I was like, come on.

True story.

So that's Craig. That's Craig's dog now. He, he adopted the dog.

The plane landed. I gave the dog, the dog's name was Greta. It's about £8 soaking wet. I gave it back to the lady and the guy across the aisle as we landed looked over at me and said, you're a saint.

Wow.

Why didn't you just wake her up and give her the dog back?

I don't know. She had, like, a bunch of clothes on her lap. It seemed like she was having a day, so I was like, whatever, this dog can sit in my lap, I guess.

We've all lost some hearts.

Yeah.

So no dog hotel. Like, if— I don't know, maybe not the Marriott, but, like, the Kimpton was like, hey, one of our things in Kimpton, no more dogs.

I'm into that.

I'd pay for that. Don't ever have to see a dog. You don't have to stay in a room that a dog might have had diarrhea on the night before on the floor, and they cleaned it up, but you can still kind of smell it. Nothing. Checking in nowhere.

It's like no smoking. There should be like no dog sections of restaurants and planes and things like that. And you could pay a premium for that.

I kind of like getting in the elevator and seeing a dog though, and then just never seeing it again. It's kind of nice.

Sure. Elevator's okay.

Well, part of the problem is there's too many dogs. Everybody has a dog now.

Yeah.

It's a proliferation of dogs all over the place. Like 40 years ago, we didn't— there weren't dogs all over the place.

I feel like you're speaking Chris Ryan's language, right? I feel like he'd love this take.

I asked someone—

he would love this take.

I asked someone the other day, I thought they had a mutt and I was like, what kind of dog is that? And they were like, it's an exo. And I was like, what? It's like, it's an exotic. And I was like, oh. And it meant one of those French bulldogs that was like $18,000. I was like, oh my God. Okay.

Oh wow.

An exo?

Like exotic. Like one of those Frenchies, French bulldogs with the blue eyes that, and like a little pink hue that I think is actually like Kendrick Perkins's breeding or whatever. It's like $15,000.

Well, then another thing that— this might be an LA thing— people are breeding dogs that are like really dramatically different sizes. Yeah. And I don't know how I feel about that. Uh, where you have like— it's like a Great Dane had sex with a Schnauzer and now it's a Schnauzer Dane. It's dogs like short legs, giant bodies. Like, what are we doing?

Your scientists never considered whether they should, right? Right. They only asked if they could.

It does feel like we've gotten bored and now we're trying to—

yeah, we're doing tricks.

So many dog breeds.

There's a Rick and Morty episode where they go to a dog planet and the dogs are doing this with people.

Yeah. And what happens?

Uh, it goes poorly, but they're like, you know what, if you don't like this, then you're weird.

That's right. Well, we've never done Island of Dr. Moreau on the Rewatchables, which is one of the worst movies of all time, but that's where Dr. Moreau is breeding humans and animals and he has this island of human animals, basically. We, uh, and, uh, and it's tremendous.

We have a Netflix poll: should dogs be allowed in hotels? 67% said no. Oh, there you go.

The people are on your side.

People agree.

So, but if you take the poll results, you mean that Drake May should be called Drake Maybe if you're going with them, with the mob?

Well, after today, I can't even fight back on Drake Maybe. This is the worst. Sal's gonna be like a pig in shit for 4 fucking days. I, I now have to root for the Giants on Sunday night.

Hi, They're, they're, they're— Giants are gonna lose. I told DK and Craig this, the most underrated thing. I mean, Dak Prescott hasn't lost to the Giants in a game that mattered since his rookie year. Like, the, the Giants are like 2-16 versus the Cowboys, and the 2 wins are like games that they benched Dak because the game didn't matter.

Do you think Harbaugh before the game will get everybody together and say, you play for the New York Giants?

This is Sunday Night Football. Sunday Night Football.

NBC is here. Part 2 of Tomlin and Harbes.

Yeah.

They liked each other all along. Yeah. So if we bring back the Hottest Take, which I really want to do and have wanted to do for a while, now that we have this expanded, um, studio situation, I think we're gonna be able to. The Netflix polls would be good for this.

Oh, yeah.

Because a lot of people accuse Craig of killing the Hottest Take with his cannibalism should be legal Hottest Take.

Altruistic cannibalism.

Altruistic cannibalism.

I still think there's a case.

But people think like that the, the feed kind of slowed down and I think stopped right after that.

They're like, we have to stop.

I believe you made us do the rewatchables. We did that movie Alive after I gave that take, right? About the plane crash with Ethan Hawke.

Yeah, right, right. So altruistic cannibalism was one of the last hottest takes. We need to bring it back, uh, just for that. Did you guys agree with that take or no?

Not really.

Honestly, when Craig breaks it down, it's like, so You know, when hypothetically, if, you know, you're not wearing a seatbelt and you die in a car crash, Craig's like, I can donate my eyes, but no one can eat me.

What am I, like, on fire? All my organs? What about my— what about my bicep? What about my thigh? What's the difference?

Yeah, your rump. Yeah, it's a rump steak.

Yeah, we talk about the veal chop all the time. What would my veal chop look like? I don't know.

Uh, all right, guys, you're in the Ringer 107 contest. Ringer Fantasy Football. You, did you win last year? You did, right?

We did. Yes, we won.

No, we won.

We won 11 games. There's no prize.

We bet on the coin toss in the Super Bowl and won.

Yeah, there it is. So you're the Ringer 107. You'll be giving your picks. Yep. On, on your last show of the week. House and I are gonna be back tomorrow. We're gonna do, so we're doing a gimmick where we're going back and forth, 4 picks each, but we can't have the same picks. And then everybody's gonna have the 5th picks that will be on social media. But this will be good. I feel like last year was a test run. This is going to be a real thing. And FanDuel was saying, um, there's going to be some stuff, there's going to be surprises.

That's how I felt about the Ringer Fantasy Football League that Mallory won. I felt like that was a test drive as well. That now it starts. I feel like we didn't really know what we were doing.

Mallory won it last year and she lost it this year.

She has Brock Bowers.

Brock Bowers is already out. His PCL, MCL, whatever CL. And, uh, and my Patriots season now feels like it might be over. Really need a rally. 10 days of intensive therapy. Hopefully AJ Brown, uh, in the walking boot. DK, congratulations. You beat us again. Um, I wish I could work up any hatred for Seattle and I just don't have any. You might get an NBA team again soon. We might be out there in December doing rewatchables too.

Heck yeah.

Yeah, might happen. All right, DK, Hyphitz, Craig, great to see you guys. Uh, check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Podcast. I'm back tomorrow night. Live on Netflix after their postgame show from Rams-Niners. We're coming on about a half hour after that, Meat House. We're gonna be doing all of our picks. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo and everybody behind the scenes as well. Thanks, guys. Uh, I will talk to you soon.

Thank you.

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