Transcript of "Michelle Pfeiffer"

How's everybody doing today?

I'm so good. Sean, how are you?

Are we actually doing this? Are we having a business meeting about when we're doing cold opens?

I think we're rolling. We're literally rolling. This is a cold open right now. The listeners are listening.

Okay, because we're not doing another show for another couple of weeks. Anyway, welcome to SmartList. Here it comes. Smartlist.

Wait, what's sus mean? Suspect. That's one of the new ones that kids are saying, right?

Not new. God, you're embarrassing yourself.

Riz is not new, right? That's a couple of years old.

Really, really bad.

Is flexy a new one, you guys?

Flexy could be What's flexing? Like, flexible?

Yeah. Then what did I hear was, Zesty is gay. Is that right? Is that the new one?

Sure. I never heard that.

If something is zesty. Will, have you heard the boys saying that?

Sorry.

Guys, I've got to keep up. We have to record soon. We're going to start the podcast, and I just want to make sure I've got my-Watching you and hearing you get old in front of me is just astounding. You should have heard the sounds I made trying to get out of the bed this morning. Super old. Like a rogue fart. You got me going. Like a rogue fart.

Just like,. You're going to wish you hadn't said that with our guest.

Hey-no, he was respectable. Respectful guest.

Yes, very respectable.

Let's start over.

She's very glassy.

God damn it. I'm sorry, surprise guest.

No, it's good. J. B, I would say that you started me off on the whole, every time you would get out of your chair, by the way, not even when you were old, when you were 33, you'd go…

You got to make a sound to lock in the core.

I know. Somehow I got into that. Yeah, you do, hoi.

But you know what Chugi is, right? Chugie is a word the kids use to describe someone or something that's outdated or trying hard to be trendy or lacking originality.

Well, you're reading because you looked that up.

I just looked it up while you were talking.

I was like, What is the prompt? What was the prompt? Hey, what are the kids saying?

Absolutely.

Really?

Absolutely. That's what the prompt was. Sean. Wait, what about... Oh, by the way, the other night at the... This is, what's today? What's today? Wednesday?

Tuesday.

No, today's Tuesday. Sunday, the center seating the front row of the play, this girl, I could tell she was just a single ticket. Her head was...

She was an narcoleptic Hard to get a date.

I don't know. Yeah. She kept nodding off. And so at the bow, I pointed right to her and I mouthed, I go, You got to go night, night, night.

Oh, shit, Sean.

I did. I pointed right to her the whole cast. We were laughing on stage, and I'm like, You got to go, Nye-Nye. Oh, fuck. Are you tie, tie?

What, too? Was she embarrassed or did she give you the finger?

She just kept looking at me clapping. She didn't She didn't realize I was... I'm looking right at her, but she didn't realize it.

She probably has an issue picking up on social cues and grab a proper rest.

Definitely proper rest. It's like a very expensive nap.

Yeah. Did you maybe look at your performance? How was she?

Believe me, I thought about the whole time.

Was she normal or was she chopped? Did she look chopped?

What's chopped mean? Would you just look up?

Oh, you guys don't look chopped. What is chopped? This is a real one. You're a little busted, a little busted up, a little chopped.

You're not even reading that?

No.

So did that come from Archie or Abel? Listen, I'm-No, you're not getting turned on.

So I'm in with the-Who gave you that?

Archie or Abel?

Dude, all of our friends, my friends and Archie's friends and Abel's friends, we're all because we're all young dudes. So we're in the same friend group.

And you Do you guys say, Hey, this is a great new flavor of gum. You should try it?

Or you should hear it is what I usually say.

Spit it out of your mouth.

I always forget that I've got it going on.

But you always chew gum.

Wait, is that the Nicarette gum? Is that what it was on it?

Well, truth be told, I've got some Zin. I've got the little nicotine pouch in.

Is that another word the kids are using?

Free pouches. Because if we're getting free shit, I like this David Power Bar, guys. The folks at David, I'm I'm going to give you in my address a little later in the side chat.

The folks at David. Sean, anything? Any hot fudge or ice cream that you need to...

? Haagen-daz. I love Haagen-Daz.

Do you?

I do. I can't eat too much anymore.

We like McDonald's. We like McDonald's.

Yes, we like McDonald's, too, as well.

We like McDonald's a lot. We like them a lot. Obviously, Hyundai, Jamsy.

Do you want to hear a quick joke?

Do you want to hear a quick joke?

Laura Piana, Rolex, and Netjia. Okay, guys. Wait, do you want to Wait, a real quick joke.

A real quick joke. Ready?

So gross.

I apologize, everybody.

A dwarf psychic just escaped prison.

Come on, really?

Yeah, there's a small medium at large.

There's a small medium at large. I think you work on your reading of that.

Okay, I heard a really quick one. This guy's going down the road. There he is. Okay, and he gets to a T in the road, and he doesn't know which way to go. He's lost, and he goes to the right, and all of a sudden, his car breaks down. He goes in front, he lifts up the hood. He's trying to figure out what's wrong, and he hears, It's the alternator. And he looks up, there's a horse there. He goes, What the hell? So he goes down, looks at the car again. He can't figure it out. He hears, It's the alternator. He looks back at the horse. He's like, What the? So he tries the alternator, tightens a few screws, starts right up. And he goes, Oh, man. So he drives to the nearest bar. He gets in the bar and he says, The barman, he says, Give me a large branding. He just downs it. He says, Give me another large branding. He downs it. And the barman goes, Ho, ho, ho. Are you okay, man? He Yeah, he goes, I was just driving here. I was lost. I hit a T in the road.

I went to fix my car, and this horse, this talking horse, I decided to go right, and I came upon this horse, and he said that it was the alternator. He goes, Oh, man, good thing you didn't go left. He goes, Why? Because There's a horse over there that doesn't know anything about cars. Come on.

Come on. Where are we going? I know. Are we going in to fucking choke hell? You didn't like that? Because I'm already there.

You didn't like that? There's a horse over there that doesn't know anything about cars.

Where's the punchline?

Yeah. That's it.

That's fucking terrible. We're going to leave that in. We're not going to cut it because everyone needs to know that sometimes Will clanks it. It happens rarely.

You didn't like it, that one. I love it. I think it's cute.

It's stupid.

All right, so our guest-Couple of pieces of string walk into a bar, and they sit down on the stools, and the one piece of string says the bartender says, Give us a couple of beers.

The bartender says, We don't fucking serve string in here. And the two pieces of string look at each other. Come on, let's get out of here. So they walk outside and one piece of string says the other piece of string, Quick, tie yourself around me. He goes, What are you doing? Just tie yourself around me. Come on. Ties his arm around. They hop back in there. They jump up on one stool and says, Give us a couple of beers. He goes, Hey, aren't you those two pieces of string I just kicked out of here? He goes, Afraid not. Okay? That's up there with It's a shit horse joke, but it's slightly better.

That's a little- Good thing you didn't go left. There's a horse over there that doesn't know anything about cars.

They don't know anything about cars.

Sean's laughing. My God. Sean's just having fun. Let's see if our surprise guests are enjoying some of this crap.

Imagine a horse Imagine. Okay.

By the way, Frannie is eating up Boja. No, it's Maple. She's eating up Bojack Horseman. I'm inappropriate for her age. But apparently, this is a great show. This is an animated show on the Netflix?

She's Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Is it just getting going?

I tell you, he's not. I haven't heard anything about it. I tell you who's been going for a long time is our guest. Oh, nice. She's worked with everybody from... We're talking... This is Primo, A-List, iconic. She's going to hate me for saying this, but it's true actor. She's worked with everybody from Pacino, De Niro, Nicholson. Michelle Pfeiffer. She's been nominated for three Academy Awards. She's been a queen, a catwoman, a dangerous liaison. How did you The Catwoman, a dangerous liaison. Yes, it's Michelle Boll. How did you get that? How did you get that so fast?

How did you get that?

How did you get that so fast?

How did you get that? How did you get that? How did you get that so fast?

Michelle Pfeiffer, reveal yourself. Michelle Pfeiffer.

Good morning. She's just late. She's so mad.

She's just late. She's just so bored.

Good Good morning. What a pleasure.

Good morning. You got it so fast.

I know.

Jason, how did you get that? There's not that many incredible-I said icon. Icons in the world, male or female. You're right there at the top.

Hi, Michelle.

Hey, hi. How are you?

I'm great. How are you?

I'm good. Getting ready to go back to Montana.

For what? For some...

For some more Madison.

More Madison.

Oh, oh, oh. Michelle, I wanted to start by saying, first of all, I had such a great time. I did a couple of days with you on the Madison, which was super fun.

He came home and raved about you, Michelle. He did. I did.

That's right. It was...

I gushed a little bit.

Fun? Wow. It was...

Are we talking about- It wasn't fun? Are we talking about Will as a scene partner made it questionable?

Will was great. He was all right. He was very- So was the director you had issues with? He was an amazing scene. No, no. Love, love, love the director, love the show, love the actors. It was just... Our scenes were grueling, and we did a lot of takes.

We did a lot of takes.

A lot of angles.

A lot of angles, and we had... It was heavy. It was just the two of us for about two days, and we just talking at each other for two days.

Was it only two days?

Was it like a contentious- Or maybe three.

I was cursing at him. Yeah. I'm throwing the F bomb around.

I appreciate you not actually using the word on this episode.

Michelle, I went all the way back. In anticipation of having you on the show, which this has been a long time coming, and actually we were going to have you a long time ago, and then schedule and things prevented us from having you a long time ago. I wanted to get into one of the things I love when I look up, it says, and I wanted to ask you about this, your first television credit ever was fantasy Island. Is that true? Oh, no way.

That's cool. What a dream.

I had one line. No way. I had one line on fantasy Island, and I remember the line. What is it? The episode was the Island of Lost Women. Sure. I was one of the Lost Women, and we were all running around in togas.

Can I guess the line?

Pastels. Yes.

Here I am. No? No. And it was the closer? No. They went to credits after that?

No. That was the only episode that Sean skipped. Yeah.

I was like, Boobs, I'm out.

It was, Who is he, Naomi?

Who is he, Naomi? And were you referring to Mr..

It was, who was it?

Herbie Villajas.

I can't remember who it was. Good memory. Yeah, and there were no men. I mean, the premise is there were no men on the island. And so we were all lusting over this one man.

Oh, but you don't remember who that... And that was a guest star. I don't.

You could... Will, did you do your homework? Did you look at the credits? No, I didn't.

Sorry, I didn't say who your chef was.

It's not on Wiki.

I mean, it did say it.

Wait, now, Phil, didn't they I do a lot of that. Wasn't that done on a back lot at one of the studios? It was universal back lot, maybe.

I'm guessing it was Universal, but it could have been Warner Brothers.

You didn't fly to Hawaii or something, right? No.

Yeah, right. No. They flew me to Hawaii. No. Yeah, no. No. But I do remember how exciting it was. Showed up for work and there was Honey Wagon.

Yeah. All the rooms there. You were in a Honey Wagon, for sure, with one line.

For sure.

You're lucky to even-Shon, can you just tell Tracy real quick? Shon's going to explain to his sister.

Yeah, Honey Wagon, it's a trailer where you, as an actor, you hang out while they're working on it.

But it's not a full trailer. It's divided up into small rooms.

Very small rooms, and they put you in there like a veal. It's just enough room to turn. You can go to the restroom, brush your teeth, and change your shoes all sitting on one seat.

What more does one need, honestly? Nothing.

It's very efficient.

But I was very excited because I looked up and there was my name and a star.

They knew.

You made it.

That's how long... Yeah.

Yeah, they knew. Tell me, by the way, it's so nice to see her. I think we met a long, long, long time ago. She doesn't remember. But it's just in passing. No, she doesn't remember. But this is the first time I've gotten to talk to you, so it's such a pleasure. And what was that like the first time when you... So before fantasy Island, had you been pursuing it? How did you fall into it? How did get that first job?

I had taken theater in high school to avoid having to take an English class. I think it was grammar that I was avoiding. And so I fell into it, and I thought all the theater people were just geeky.

Yeah, for sure they are.

Anyway, I just fit right in. And I just fell in love with it. And then anyway, graduated, I didn't think I would ever, in my wildest dreams to become an actor. I just wasn't a part of that. I'd never met an actor. I'd never met a famous person. And your family was...

There was no acting connection in your family at all?

Nothing. In fact, my dad was not thrilled at the notion of me doing it. Where were you? Where did you grow up? In Orange County, not that far away from LA. Anyway, so I was working at Bond's Supermarket. I love it. Sure. Checkout? Checkout. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't a very good checker. I could never balance my cash register.

Yeah. And those are the days where you had to type in the price. Yeah. And you didn't just scan stuff.

Those were the days, right. Way back then.

I'm getting some skills. Now, did you not go to college and study up on some tangible something you could really rely on? Or were you just like, I'm all in, and if this doesn't work, I'm going back to slinging melons?

I had started a trade school. I was doing court reporting. Oh, really? Wow. And that made me crazy in the head because you have to learn a whole new language. And then you have to type it out like this.

A sonographer? A sonographer. Wait, so you know how to do that?

Not anymore. But what would happen was after about a year of studying that, every time I would talk to people, my hands would start going like this. Really? My brain is I'm transcribing every single thing.

It's not a quirty keyboard, is it?

No, it's a different keyboard.

No, it's a totally different. You have to learn a completely different language.

It's a fully different language. Did it help you memorize dialog going forward? No.

I mean, maybe.

Good question, though.

I was just thinking it would be funny. I wonder if you ever lost a job. You said you took acting because you didn't want to do this grammar class. I wonder if you ever lost a job. They're like, We really wanted to hire her, but her grammar was terrible.

Yeah.

She doesn't speak good. Since you popped on our little screen here today to talk, it's really hard for me to hold... Greece, too, is one of my favorite movies of all time. Really? I'm sure you get it all the time, and I'm so sorry, but me and my sister watched it a thousand times. I know every word, every song. My sister and I. Who else is bad?

Michelle was about to correct him. I'm just kidding.

Anyway, It was a huge part of my childhood, Grease, too. We would just watch it over and over and over again. I know every line of dialog and every word. It's really cool that you were a part of my- Which is your favorite part in the film?

Isn't that cool? I think one of my favorite parts of the film is A Girl for All Seasons because it's so ridiculous.

I'll be your girl for all seasons all the year.

That's a Christmas tree.

Absolutely.

Sean, how many times have you reenacted Cool Ryder on a A thousand times.

Okay. I need to see- You know, there's somebody online who did that, actually, and I reposted it.

Oh, really? There's a guy who reenacts every scene.

Do you get that a lot in your life that people just know? It's like a cult, like classic. People Yeah.

Is that the thing people do the most from Greece to going outlandish and recreating stuff?

You mean-Do people come up and quote lines?

Or is that the one that people go, Oh, my God, I love Sean, like fan Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a big one. I guess probably... Well, and then you got all the people quoting Scarface, which is- Scarface. I mean, it's crazy. But mostly they're quoting Tony Montana, not really me. And Fabulous Baker Boys. What about that, Sean? Have you a song on top of a piano? Of course.

I took a nap on top of it.

Oh, my God. I remember when that movie came out. I love those guys, too, so much. I love Bo and Jeff Bridges. What great dudes. I mean, just the best. That movie was so good. The best.

We will be right back.

Now, back to It's a show.

Michelle, you could go on and on and on with all of the incredible things that you have done. Do you take the time ever privately to give yourself a little pat on the back for the longevity, the amount of time you have spent in a relevant position in an industry that's famous for its unpredictable. It's so fickle. You have been incredibly Well respected and sought after for probably five times longer than your average actor or actress.

It's admirable. Don't you find it, I find it... First of all, no. I don't. You should. I'm always surprised, actually, to hear people say that. But I also find today it's really hard to feel relevant in any way because it does feel like... So spread out. Everybody's famous. Everybody's getting their 15 minutes, and you... So it doesn't... I don't know. It doesn't feel that way, honestly.

But it turns out it seems like there's certainly enough room for you. You are still doing that which you want at the pace that you want, it seems, from the outside.

I mean, you've got three. You've got the Madison, you've got your show on your Apple TV. You got a movie coming out as well for Amazon. You're busy.

Well, Yeah, I'm a little too busy. I didn't really plan. Look, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful because I love acting. I've never lost. In fact, I probably enjoy it more now than I ever have because- Really? Yeah, I'm more relaxed with it. I actually didn't... When I had all of this work, plus I have a fragrance company that I founded seven years ago. And so it's at a time when I wasn't working all this much. So I don't really have time to be thinking about anything but the task at hand. But when I had all these acting jobs coming I thought, okay, how are you going to manage this and have a life? Because that hasn't always been easy for me. I'm an all or nothing girl. And when I approach things, and I always like taking on challenges, and then I get into it and it's sink or swim. And for whatever reason, I feed on that. Maybe not so healthy. I don't know. So my approach has been, this gets back to why am I enjoying it more now than ever, is I don't have time to nor the desire to go that deep for that long and not be present.

I I realized I have a finite amount of time left, and I might announce on this show that I became a grandmother last year. Excellent.

Well done.

That's awesome. I've been very quiet about it, and it is...

The greatest, right?

Heaven. It's heaven. It's ridiculous. Congratulations, by the way.

That's pretty cool.

And If I had known that I was going to be a grandmother, I wouldn't have taken on so much work. But I've enjoyed everything, and I'm really grateful. I love each of these projects. And so the weird thing is that giving up that angst about the process has freed me up, and I feel in some ways has made me better.

You mean the angst about the process of actually studying to play that character, doing the research, yada, yada?

Oh, I have to know this, and I have to- And no longer. I have to free... I have to personalize this, and I have to... And yes, there's a certain amount of that you have to do, and that's important. But then you start, though. But there's something amazing for me about showing up, and it's about discovery.

Yes, and also, I bet you bring more of yourself now. Than ever before.

Is that correct? Yes. I think you might be right.

You might be right. That's a first.

Good for you, Sean. For better or worse, Sean.

Yeah, but I mean, it makes you fearless, more fearless.

Yeah, I'll bet, Michelle, you would say for better, right? Because if we're doing things correctly, which it sounds like you are, you become a better and better version of yourself as you get older. And as an actor, by a you're bringing more interesting abilities to pretending to be other people. So I bet your work has gotten even better, right? I mean, do you watch your own stuff? I mean, can you allow yourself to watch yourself and go, That's a little bit better than what I did five years ago or 10 years ago?

It's hard for me to like my work and watch it. And that's the other thing is I used to see every day's daily, the work before. I had to see what I was doing, had to see where I was at, had to know, do I need to make a shift? Do I need to? Yeah. And- You don't do that anymore?

I don't.

I just don't anymore.

What happened? When did that change?

It gradually started shifting. Actually, that was a while ago because I was just torturing myself.

So you didn't like what you were seeing or you got more confident in, Oh, you know what? I keep checking, but it's fine.

Or were you doing it to punish yourself on a certain level, do you think?

Is that what you meant? I'm just super critical. Yeah.

Okay. So then you left it and you're like, I'm just going to be mean to myself, so I don't even want to look.

No mean to... Yes. Because I know no matter what I see, I'm going to- Find the negative. I'm going to find the negative, and I'm going to show up the next day and do it the best way I know how. Anyway. I'm always going to give 110 %. I'm not going to...

Well, I guess the danger of looking at it and carrying is if you start watching that and you start relying on that, you run the risk of dragging that and your opinion of that to the next day. And it affects what you do, not in the way that's constructive, but potentially going, I want to avoid this, this, this, and this. And now you're in some weird loop. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And the other thing about it, too, is that then you become rather than something happening spontaneously because you're just going with your instincts and you're in the moment, you start copying yourself. Oh, that was really good. That was a really good moment.

You try to regenerate it.

And then you're not in the moment anymore, which is what made it so good. And also what could have made it so bad. But that thing about a painter, like when you paint, sometimes you go, Okay, but Those moments where you missed led to the good moment. And it's like a painter, it's the same thing because I paint and you have your painting and you have an idea and you start painting, and then you make a mistake. And then you have to go about, how am I going to fix this? Well, you don't have a plan how to fix it because you didn't plan on making a mistake. So now you have to just figure that out. And it ultimately, typically, will end up being the your favorite part of your painting. I think when you're creating, I think that's all part of the process. Just...

I love that you paint. Of course, you paint. You're going to be cooler. Everything you say is just that one thing is cooler than the next. Wait, Michelle, you work with somebody- By the way, I have a fragrance called Dave.

Dave. Come on. Well, maybe Dave should meet the David Power Bar.

Maybe they should be friends.

The Power Bar out of here.

We're talking about Michelle's fragrance. What is wrong with I love that.

I do think before we move on, we should... Sean, I really think you should track down the gal in the front row and ask her how you can fix your mistake. Okay. Maybe maybe you can straighten out your performance and stop putting people to bed.

I totally will do that.

Wait, Sean, can't you get in serious trouble? If you're on the stage and you break and you start talking to the audience, isn't that a- During the perfect call, you're fine.

He hit, Fuck it, 10 years ago. Don't worry.

He's been trying to get fired off on Oscar for it.

No, I noticed her dozing off for the first hour of the play while I'm in it. I understand. Then I waited till the end at the bow when everybody clapping. When we were in the bow.

It wasn't in the middle of your performance.

No, no, no.

I was like, wow.

Was it the applaudit woke her up?

I think it was the applaudit woke her up.

That's funny. Michelle, when I come next week, I'm going to bring a pillow. It sounds like that's what I need to do. Wait, Michelle, I was going to ask you, you've worked with so many great directors over the years. I mean, just some of the all-time greats. Was there a time when you were just director-driven? Has that shifted? What do you look for when you're deciding now?

Director is super important. I mean, initially, you just want a job. And then once you start getting work, and then it's obviously just choosing the best of what is put in front of you. And hopefully you're able to get pickier and pickier as you go along. And then, yeah, when you're in a position where you have that choice, it's a tough one. Like, is it script? Is it director? I mean, a lot of... I've seen really talented directors make, I would not maybe masterpieces, but great films out of not so great scripts. And then I've seen maybe in the wrong hands, a really great script It's just so- Director is so important. In some ways, I think I would... If I had to choose, I would say director. And then I think the part is, does it just speak to you? I mean, for me, I can hear it. I can hear it. I can see it. I'm very visual.

Does it matter if it's the lead or seven, six, seven, eight, nine down the call sheet? If it's a direct- Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Six, seven, eight, nine.

Well, listen, now you're getting in a honey bag in territory. I know.

I recently have, especially working on a Marvel movie or something, and you have a tent on the stage and you're in a costume, you can't go to the bathroom in unless you... I've had to beg for a Honey Wagon size room. I'm like, I just need a place to go sit and work on my stuff that has a little tiny toilet. Right. Right.

Right. Right.

And couldn't even have here.

Right. Right. Yeah. Let me ask you something. This might be like, we don't have to go there if you don't want to, but having your breadth of work over literally decades, like amazing work, one after another. Have you seen a change for the better in either roles for women from the beginning of your career to now or how being a woman in the business has changed at all? Have you experienced any of that yourself? Or have you just been like, no, I've just been sailing along- Before you even answer that, here's one thing that I just find incredibly impressive about you, and you don't have a lot of company in this.

You have been able to have your talent as an actor overshine your extraordinary beauty from day one. Absolutely. Which extends into, I would imagine so many interesting roles now. As one gets older, the roles get better. And since you never traded just on your looks, there's no end of relevance there. It was always about the talent with you. That's right.

Jason, that was so delicately walked through and so impressive.

I'm in deep sweat.

You're so close to trouble on either side.

I know. It was all-shy.

He is teetering. I'm like, he is so teetering on the edge.

Did I make it? Did I shut up in time?

You did. So impressed. Wow.

I was just more to the point.

It was beautiful. I was going to say- How does it feel being an aging actress in Hollywood?

Why don't you just say it, Sean?

No, Michelle, I was going to say that I think that you're even cooler than you are beautiful, which is saying a lot. That's the truth. Am I cool?

I always feel that. I'm such a nerd.

Very, very cool.

Pick your scandal in the news news in the news over the last 40 years about this business that we're all in. A lot of the times it has to do, not all the time, but a lot has to do with women and how they've been mistreated. It's so bad. I didn't know if you could speak to that.

Sean, are you trying to get headlines for us? No.

Can you get out of the dark water and get into the shallow turquoise?

Yeah. We just got out of the deep end, Sean. Now, there you go. Diving back in. All right. Wow, that was a lot to unpack, guys. So where do you want me to start? This is your time.

How are the roles seem to you? Better or worse? Good.

Well, you know what? They're better, but they're way better. There's so many... And mainly that's due to television and streamers And the bad news is there's a ridiculous amount of content out there.

Maybe too much.

You don't know what to watch.

A lot of it not so good, maybe. But that's always been the case, right? In our industry. And I just feel like so much of the good work, the majority of the good work is being done by women. I mean, extraordinary work. I agree. By women and on television. I agree. And so it's keeping us all working. And then I also feel like in terms of performers and entertainment, there has never been a bigger appreciation for women of my age.

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's super exciting. And so, yeah, I've seen- But that's what I mean.

It's like, I don't think that was the case 30, 30, 40 years ago, 50 years ago.

No. You couldn't do TV and movies. Yeah, for sure.

Right. That's a great point.

You couldn't do a commercial. God forbid, you should sponsor a product or something. You will never work again in the movies. That's right.

Michelle, when you were making, let's say, was it 88? You made Dangerous Liaisons, and you're making all the... And you're getting nominated. So you're nominated for an Academy Award, and then you call your agent, you go, I'm going to do this TV series. They'd be like, What? Are you out of your mind?

Exactly. There's no- There's no Not even that long ago. I remember about, oh, maybe it was 10 years ago. I was talking about, I don't know, I got offered some TV show, and I remember, well, you know? I don't know. It's interesting. And they're like, No, if you do TV, Really?

It was Woody. It was Woody.

Got to be something really special.

It was Woody and Matthew McConaher with True Detective, I remember, was the big like, oh, wow, these guys are- Oh, they changed the- Yeah, I think McConaher had just won the Oscar five months earlier for Dallas Bires Club, maybe. That was like, what the fuck is going on? Is that what changed it? I really feel like that was... Before that, obviously, Fincher doing House of Cards on Netflix, too. Just launching streaming as a place where filmmakers go. Yeah, it is really exciting.

You don't think it was me doing the sitcom The Millers after I did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Well, maybe it's... Let me tell you something. This Bojack thing that I'm hearing is coming on soon, right? Yeah.

I feel so responsible. When you say tons of bad stuff. I'm like, God, I'm so responsible for so much of it.

Trust me. We've all got our.

Trust me. I've done my share of bad stuff.

Now you're sitting here, you're in the catbird seat because you get to pick and choose. You can do whatever you want. You can do TV and film, and you've got a new appreciation for it. As you said, you've relieved the pressure of making yourself crazy. When you look at, and I guess now being a grandparent, now you're a grandmother.

Domestic life is at its zenith.

Is lifework balance the most important? Is Was that the first decision?

Yeah, it is. Now, but it obviously wasn't when I committed to do all this work. I didn't know I was going to be a grandmother then. I thought, Well, it's my time now. I can go do what I want to do.

We'll be right back.

And back to the show.

How good are you and your husband at working out this balance? Because that's a tricky part, too, because you're both incredibly busy.

He's very busy as well.

Yeah. For my sister, for Tracy.

Yeah.

Please, Sean.

For my sister, who might not know, your husband is David Kelly.

Oh, okay. I got to say, he's been amazing. I said to him when, again, all this work was coming up, I'm like, I'm going to Montana and Texas for four months out of the Okay, I am not doing this unless you're with me. Don't say you're going to be with me and then come for a couple of weeks and then go away from me. No, you're with me. And he's been with me. Really? Well, he's- And I couldn't have... Because he can write anywhere.

Right. But he's doing much more than write. He's directing, he's producing, he's doing a different stuff. Show running.

He doesn't direct.

Well, by proxy at times, yes. Maybe.

Well, he's pretty I just worked for him with him for the first time, really, on Margot's Got Money Troubles. And it was so fun. And I was very... I've never been really eager to work with him because I so cherish my marriage, and sometimes that's the kiss of death to work together. And don't be on the cover of People magazine together because you'll be divorced next year.

Oh, my God.

I mean, how many Hundred times have we seen that?

It was nerve-wracking as it approached. Did you guys lay down any like, Listen, this is how you could trigger me if you do this. I know that I may trigger you if I do this. If the door to my Honey Wagon is closed.

He set a boundary early on when I was asking maybe too many questions.

Do you really think she'd say that, David?

He's like, I think that's a good question for the director. After he did that a couple of times, I'm like, Okay, I get it. I get it. And that was actually really good. But the truth is, this character is so well written. It's like, I was born to play this part. Really? She is like a real housewife of Fullerton want to be. I grew up in Orange County. I love, love, love, love her. Her name is Shayan, and she works at Bloomingdale's. In the Cosmetics Department.

That's brilliant.

And single mom, El Fannie is my daughter. Clearly, I didn't get it.

You can move on. I just found out.

Anywho, so it It was also, gosh, how often do you get to work in Los Angeles and stay home? I don't know where you guys live.

Are you shooting? You're not shooting. You thought you were in Montana shooting.

But I'm not shooting right now. I'm going to Montana.

When you worked with David, it was in It was in LA?

It was in LA. Got it.

Okay, great. Michelle, sometimes I do this and I ask people who have, as Sean said, such a huge breadth of work. Is there a role? Is there a... Not a role. Well, maybe a role. Role and/or film that you did of one of these great films. Is there one... Do you have a favorite? And it's okay.

I don't. No? I have a few that are of my favorites, but it's then it's bad if I don't mention some, and then the director is going to be like, Oh, you didn't mention mine.

Let's assume that you love them all. Let's assume you love them all, but you love one.

There's the film that I actually love the most, and then there's the performance that maybe I don't hate. Then there's the experience that I have the best time on.

All three. All three.

All three of those.

Experience would be, I think, a toss-up of Married to the Mob. And honestly, Margot's Got Money troubles. It was just a ton of fun. And my favorite film, maybe Baker Boys, maybe. Yeah.

I got to check. I've never seen it.

That might be my favorite performance as well. Double dick.

As well.

Might be.

So famous, too.

I think that would make a great sequel Where are these people?

Yes.

Right? Oh, yes.

That's a great idea.

I can't get Steve to do it.

Well, anyway. Just say, David will take care of it.

Can I ask you Can I just nerd out just for a second?

Are we going back to Grease 2? Yeah, Grease 2.

Let's go back to Grease 2. Just a couple of questions because that's not ever going to happen again in my life.

Sorry, Michelle, this is where we take questions from fans. Go ahead.

Go ahead, Caller.

No, what What was it like knowing how big the first one was? Then were you scared to be in the sequel? To be like, Oh, my God, Greece was such a massive thing. No, come on. It was a big deal to me as a kid.

No, it's a really good question. It was one of the better questions. And of course, I was terrified.

Yeah, but you were so good in it. You were so good.

Look, it's John Travolta, Olivia Newton, John. And it was the first one, and it was amazing and such a cult following and so successful successful. And then you got me and this kid, Mac, they don't know who we are. And they're taking out ads that say too hot. And I'm like, don't say that. What if they don't think I'm hot? Okay, don't tell them I'm hot anyway. So it was...

Was it fun to make? Yeah.

Danceing and singing. I loved all that because I do love to dance and I love to sing, but I didn't consider.

Stop sweating.

I know.

We could see you sweating as you're answering.

We can see the towel just below the frame, John. God damn it.

Fuck. Cool it off, man.

As soon as she mentioned, we don't have to talk about it anymore. It just exploded.

By the way, I wanted it for you and then I stayed for Maxwell. Sean, a couple of bars.

It was really more about Max.

Name a song. I know I have a lot of words.

Opener. Give us the Sean. Medley.

No, what's the opener? What's the opening song? School's Out For... No, it was about a school. Oh, God, I can't remember.

Ramones, isn't it? School's Out For Summer?

Yeah, it was this. It was this. This. That's right.

Shaking it up.

I still have my bowling ball. No, you don't.

I do. And the bowling ball case.

We're going to score all tonight. That's it. We're going to score on tonight. We're going to rock, we're going to roll, we're going to bop, we're going to roll, we're going to score, score, score, score, score.

Oh, God. So good. I love it. Well done. Michelle, do you grab a little keepsake from every single job?

Yeah.

Not always. Not always. Sometimes there's not- Do you have the dress from Baker Boys? I don't. Oh, are you going to get that dress? I have some of the costumes from Married's Mom. I don't always keep them because-What about a script?

They just take up room. Do you keep the script?

I keep my scripts.

I keep them. You got a stack of them on a wall somewhere? Do you have them bound and stuff No, they got mildewy, and I've been trying to clean them.

Do you archive stuff?

No. I just don't have time.

It's all up here, right?

Yeah. I like that. I like that you don't. I do want to follow before we let you go because Jason obviously has- Has a time crunch. Yeah, he's a time crunch.

He's got to get- He's a hard out, man. Because he's got to get up.

Jason, by the way, I was meaning to say, I'm sorry, maybe are you going to a doctor to address your gastrointestinal issues?

Yeah, well, the back is so stiff when I get up in the morning. It just sometimes the valve gets a little loose.

I understand.

Yeah. Damn it, man.

Michelle understands. We're all chopped a little.

We're all chopped, baby. We're all chopped.

We're all chopped.

That's a good T-shirt.

We're all chopped. We're all chopped. Great show. Great show, by the way.

Yeah.

Wait, Will, you had a killer closer. Go ahead.

No, No, not a killer closure, but I just want to ask you because we briefly touched upon Scarface that became this huge, of course, iconic film, Brian De Palma, You and Al Pacino. He didn't care for it.

We have a rogue Italian critic in the back of the theater in the process of getting kicked out.

Finally, a question about Scarface. You couldn't have imagined, I imagine, the cultural impact that Scarface had had and continues to have to this day. I mean, it's phenomenal, right?

We're talking about remaking it, right? Or doing another?

I did hear something about that. Was it a television show or was it a new movie? I forget, but that was a couple of years ago.

No? Yeah. Anyway. It comes up every once in a while. Universal and Anton Fouquo, maybe.

I didn't have any idea it would become a culture phenomenon in the way that it did, too. It became this cult following. And that was really intense for me. I want to say the shooting went on for six months. It went over a couple of months, and I was playing a coke addict, so I was not eating. I kept getting skinnier and skinnier.

Jason, anything?

The crew were bringing me bagels.

We're going to have to reshoot about 20 pages. Will you please eat something?

Well, and then the scene at the end where she's in the restaurant and strung out and at her worst, kept getting pushed and pushed and pushed. And that was the scene where I really wanted to look my worst, anyway. And it was also very other than Mary Elizabeth, Mastra Antonio, we were the only women. And it was like guys, and gangster guys and machismo. And they were all a little bit in character all the time.

Brian De Palma, right?

And Brian. Yeah. And I was 20. I was so young. I mean, again, the last credit.

You were 20 Are you 20 years old?

I was 23. I think the last credit I had was Greece, too.

Wow.

And I just didn't have a lot of experience under my belt. And I was terrified. Every night, I was terrified.

A lot of that was in Florida, right?

No? Let's see. A lot of it was in LA. Oh, yeah? Most of it was in LA on stage, and we did some Florida location stuff.

Yeah. But terrified because of the newness of your career?

Yeah. I didn't feel worthy. I didn't feel like I had the chops. I didn't have any experience behind me. I had zero confidence. Yeah. Yeah. And Al will admit this, he didn't really want me for the part. And I auditioned, I think, for a couple of months for it. And I knew he didn't want me going into it. Really? And one of my favorite stories is when I actually made him bleed during my screen test.

How so? Wait, how so?

I think-Don't you want to just end there?

No. No.

What a story.

A good cliffhanger.

God damn it.

Okay, so I'll try to make it brief. So I'm having to audition. First of all, I come in, I do a great reading for Brian De Palma and the casting director, and I was like, it just was a good... It just happened to be good. Then they want to bring me back to meet Al. Anyway, over the course of two months, I just get worse and worse and worse because I'm just afraid. And by the end, I'm bad. And I don't blame him. He just was like, I'm bad. And Brian finally comes to me and says, You know, doll, it's just not going to work out. I'm like, I know, man, I'm sorry. Because Brian really wanted me.

This is what's wrong with the audition process. Is it just the stakes get so high, you can't do good?

Yeah, as disappointed, well, you know that fear is the worst, is an actor's enemy. It just completely undermines you. So as much as disappointed as I was, I was so happy to be done with it. So at least a month goes by and I get a call. They want to bring me in to screen test.

I'm like, oh.

So I show up and I don't even give a shit because I know I'm not getting this part.

Sure. Yeah.

That's when you get them.

It's a sexy indifference.

So I show up. It was my best work of the film. Of course. And it's that restaurant scene where I explode at the end and I swiped the table of the dishes, and every glass break, the dishes break. Cut. There's blood everywhere. And they all run over to me to see where I've cut myself. Yeah, your hands. Well, I didn't cut me. I cut Al.

No.

I thought, well, there goes that part. And he's just staring at you. Anyway, actually, I think that was the day he was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really?

I think, Yeah, she's not bad.

Charlie.

Yeah. And so, wait, wow. So did you You cut him bad?

I think I cut him in the finger or something. You went for it.

You went for it. I went for it. That's why... Yeah, I love that. I love that. Wow.

There's the lesson.

Yeah, there's the lesson.

There's the lesson. You got to give a little less shit.

Yeah, and if I went for it more, people wouldn't fall asleep in the front row.

Exactly. When you start breaking some glass, make them say hello to your little friend.

Make sure the front row is bleeding, Shani. Come on.

Before you show up to do your performance. That's your mantra. I don't give a shit.

I'll cut everybody.

Don't worry. You watch them.

Just cut them all. That's covered.

While he's chewing.

Michelle, thank you. We have taken up, again, way too much of your time.

Jason is late for his meeting. Thanks, guys.

That's all right. This was really fun.

Michelle, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for doing this.

Huge pleasure for me, too. You're the greatest.

It's such a thrill. Such an honor, truly.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you. Have a great rest of the day.

Until I see you again. Bye, bye, bye. Am I supposed to stay on? Am I supposed to do something?

You can slam your laptop closed and discussed.

All right. Bye, bye.

Bye, bye.

Thanks. Well, Will, there you go.

Okay, so I pulled it off. I pulled out a pretty- Pretty nice.

Yeah, no kidding. Did that cost you any money? You got to pay to get guests like that.

God, how great is she?

How cool is she? I love her. How cool is she?

I know. I am cool.

She's great.

Did I seem nervous?

No, that is... Wow, what a cool lady.

I know. Aside from the talent and the looks and everything she has, she's just a cool thing.

So down to earth, It's so cool. It's just amazing. Got it all. Jason, you did put it really well, which is like, or was it one of you talking about- It was probably me. About how she's such a great performer. She's such a great actress. That that is the thing that shines through.

Yeah, you always went for the acting, and the beauty was just a great little sidebar, as opposed to there are some actors, male and female, that people do go to see like, Oh, look, I want my handsome movie star. I just want to... Thank you, dude. Then you leave, and it's like, no performance stays with you, but you like the eye candy. She's just like, she's an incredible actor.

Do you think that was Did you say that I brought up Grease 2 so much?

Oh, we'll cut that out.

Yeah. All of it?

We'll cut most of your stuff.

By what measure do you mean okay? It was embarrassing.

No, I know. I couldn't tell if- I mean, embarrassing for you, and it was It was awkward for her.

She was clowning you the whole time.

Yeah, that movie was so huge to me as a kid.

No, we don't need more. We don't need more. No, I'm actually jealous. I never saw that one. I saw the first Grease seven times in a row, just sitting in my theater chair with my sister. Just a couple of weeks ago? Out in the valley. This was what? We were probably 11, 12, something like that.

Were we sharing a bag? What was going on?

The only reason we left is because the lighter ran out of butane. We're like, Well, let's get the fuck out of here. This is out in the West Valley in the early '80s, and it was cheap. Stuff was cheap.

Yeah. There's no other reason you would stay and watch it seven times in a row.

The theater is cool. You don't want to be sweating while you're tweaking out there in the valley. Let John and Olivia just serenade made you while you just-Watch it again.

Watch it again. Watch it again.

That is hilarious. You watched it that many times before you said...

Oh, God. Well, I listened to it hard. What's that? What's that for? Before I turned to my sister and I said- It's like somebody grabbed the wheel of a bus.

Like somebody in a passenger just reached up and grabbed the wheel. My stuff. What? Say goodbye. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Wait, was John, if you were to say bye in a Greece type of song. Oh, here we go. How was that? Everybody knew their role.

I know. Everybody knew their role. Smart.

Nice. Smart.

Nice. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbeco, Michael Grant-Terry, and Rob Armjarff. Smartless.