Transcript of #165 Chris Bledsoe - The Episode We Never Censored

Chris Bledso. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Sean.

I can't wait to dive into what we're about to talk about. But so got to give Sean Webb credit again. He has introduced me to some of the most fascinating people that I've ever met, and just a great human being. I love Sean. Also, I was with Brandon Fugle about a month ago and went and toured. He gave me a private tour of Skim Walker Ranch, and I told him that me and you were potentially doing an interview you, and he got really excited about that and told me a little bit about what you guys were doing out there. So I'd love to touch on that. But all in all, Chris, I'm just ecstatic that you made the trip and was able to meet your son, Ryan, and been really excited to do this.

It's the same here, my friend. We've been so excited. I'm honored.

Thank you. All right. Well, everybody starts with a introduction. Chris Bledso, you had a life-changing UFO experience in 2007 after the financial crisis that saved your life and cured you of your chronic illness. What was that chronic illness?

Crohn's disease.

Crohn's disease. Crohn's disease.

Crohn's disease, yeah.

Since then, you've dedicated your life to sharing your story and how it impacts your faith, which I can't wait to dive into that. You are the author of the New York Times Best seller, UFO of God, the extraordinary true story of Chris blood. And since then, your your a UFO experience, you've talked to CIA, NASA, The History channel. They've all been studying you and your experience. And from what I understand, trying to figure out what's going on with your consciousness. Yeah. So I have a lot of questions. But Then we have a Patreon account. They've been with us since the very beginning. They're our top supporters, and without them, I wouldn't be sitting here, and neither would you. One of the things that I do is I offer them an opportunity to ask each guest a question. There's some really good ones on here. This one is from Kathy. How do you view death now since your experience? Is it a sole departure or a rebirth or finality as your true being dies?

It's completely To me, the real world is the unseeing world where there's no time. I think we're in some matrix here where we experience time from the physical body. Once you're born, it starts decaying right after it grows, and it's a cycle. But the eternal world is alive and around us. I have been able to to experience that and have shared it with a lot of others, this hidden world around us. I think our loved ones are on the other side cheering for us to get through to the other side. I'm stronger in my faith than I ever have been.

Here's a question that just came to mind on the subject. Talking about where we go after we die and what you think happens after we die. Where do you think we are before we're born?

I don't know, but the Bible says, And I knew you before you were born. So if you're eternal, we were part of God. In other words, we're conscious Consciousness, the word consciousness leads back to one. So you got all these people talking about consciousness now. Well, that just means God, right? So I think we're all a part of God, and we breed the life into every one of us, and we return back to that unless we fail those consequences.

So when you say consciousness is God, what exactly does that mean? Because all of our consciousness is different. We don't see eye to eye on things. We have different perceptions. We view the world through different lenses. And so is this a... Do you think consciousness is one big collective?

I think it's like a wireless internet, basically. All the information to every living thing is around us. In fact, I read studies from NASA, and I have a couple that are pretty interesting where it talks about the green light that shines from the sun, the way it angles on Earth, the light is in the green spectrum, which is the color spectrum, the center. And in that green light, it affects this chemical called ADT, which is in all living things, hemoglobin in a human to plant life, chlorophyll. And when that light hits that chemical, it creates the energy which starts life. So something is telling every cell in your body what to do. You're not in the grass and the trees and the bugs, it's all created by this field of information around us. And I think we're just receivers that. This is how we're able to remote view. This is how you're able to do a lot of that stuff because we can tap into it. This consciousness around us. It's like a wireless network. So it's complex. Lax. And I'm just guessing, just like everybody, we speculate of what is real about even God.

We all speculate because we really don't know.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah. Were you It's a personal question, but it sounds like the experience that you had in 2007, which we'll dive into here in just a couple of minutes. It sounds like that Really, I don't know if it made your faith stronger or just brought you to faith in general, but- Stronger. So you were always a Christian?

Yeah. My wife, I was a deacon in the Pentecostal in this Church. So I was raised in the Baptist Church. And I married my wife 42 years ago.

Congratulations.

And we're still in love and happy. And she He said, You're going to marry me. You're going to go to the church with me. You're not going to drink and all that. So I agreed. I was 20 years old, 21, and we got married. I joined the Pentecostal Church. I became a deacon in the church, and And then I ran into trouble when I had this experience with the UFO, and that created some problems for me.

Interesting. So did you come to faith because of your wife? You had to make a deal? No. Or was it always- No.

When I was a little boy, my neighbor's... I lived out in the country. I was born and raised on a farm. My dad was a carpenter. I worked in tobacco and hay, and sometimes on a dairy farm, my neighbor had one. But all the kids wanted to go to the local church. We had a little seven 1700s Church that was in the Civil War. It was a hospital. It's an old dirt driveway. It's still there. And all these kids wanted to go to church because that's where we could get together and have fun. And so I was deep rooted in the Baptist Church until I married her. And I had to convert from Baptist to Pentecostal, which is different. I'd never seen speaking in tongues and walking on the tops of the pews and shouting and all that. But that's where I ended up, Pentecostal Church. So I'm deep rooted in my faith. I know the Bible pretty good, but I see it differently now because I have seen something that changed my life.

Before this experience, were you into UFOs or extraterrestrial life or any of that? Were you nothing? No.

Back in those days, I was a builder, my dad. I'm actually a commercial pilot. That was my first love was to be a pilot. I swore I wasn't going to be a carpenter. I wanted to be something different. So my wife encouraged me when we got married to get into flying, and I did. I studied 12 years. I actually taught weather for pilots. I was college level. So that was my life until we had the third baby. And when the third baby come along, I had to make a decision. Do I become a dad that sees my kids two days a week? Basically not a part of their lives or do I want my children to love their dad? And so I changed my whole career to look after my children. Got into the building business and Along about 2001, the World Trade Center disaster happened. When that happened, I was caught with 72 houses under construction. We're building 100 a year, 120 houses. My wife had the RE/MAX Company, in Théodil, and she was, I think her last year, they closed $40 million worth of homes, new and existing. But when they crashed the World Trade Center, Fort Bragg went on big alert.

That's where I live, Fort Bragg. I work with the soldiers. That's who buys the houses, mostly. I saw it all a slow motion train wreck coming because back in those days, the interest rate on construction money was 8, 9%, which it is now, which is terrible. That's the worst thing it could do to kill the housing business, which is happening right now. I have friends in the building business and family that are crying about that. But what happened, I had $100,000 a month going out in interest and overhead. And by the time 2005 come along, it had led me of all life savings, 20 years worth of work. And my disease that I had been fighting since 25 years old, 26 crones, got worse, and it got worse, and real worse, to the point that we sold the company. I couldn't even get out of bed. Oh, man. I was that sick. And so I'd never thought about a UFO. I was too busy raising children and building all these houses and dealing with the... Now I'm in depression. I'm sick. I'm in the restroom 25 times or 20 times a day. And it was I thought it was going to die from it.

I mean, really. That's where my brain was in 2001, right on up to when it actually happened in '07.

Interesting. Yeah. Well, before we get into the incident, everybody on the show gets a gift. Oh, wow.

Thank you for that.

Hey, you're welcome. Any guesses?

I love it. I love it. These are the famous gummies.

That's it? I love it. Jones lead, Gummy Bear's made right here in the USA and still legal in all 50 states.

I love it.

But, well, Chris, let's dive in to the incident. Let's dive into what happened on the Cape Fear River?

Okay.

What were you doing that day?

Well, I'd sold the business That's right. And there for a year, there's a part there that... It's in my book. I write about this. Leading up to that incident, I'd had this near-death experience in the hospital from being overmedicated from the medicine they were giving me. They weren't checking my vitals and my liver like they were supposed to. And I went in to just toxic, poisoning and unconscious. And so now I've sold my business because of all the crash. And here I am sick, really bad sick. So I'm recovering from this disaster in '05. So we fast forward to '06, in about October of '06, I had gotten better enough that my dad convinced me to get out and try to work. And remember, I'd lost everything. Everything. We were living in an 8,000-square-foot home on a golf course with a pool out back. For 20 years, we were doing great. And now I'm living in a mobile home, and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. Oh, wow. Yeah.

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I looked after a house for dad for about four months, late 2006. It was finished up just before Christmas, but we had a punch list to do. So So we all came back. Then right after the first, July the first, I mean, January the first, the crew went back down to the Coast to do the punch list. And I told them, I'm not coming. Just bring a check when you get done. So on January the eighth of that year, they called me. We had finished. We got it all signed off and we got your check. So I said, Well, bring it on to the house and give it to dad and he'll pay you. And so they got their checks about 1: 00 or 2: 00 or 12: 30 or 1: 00. They went to town, cashed them and come back and called me and said, Hey, boss, let's celebrate. Would you take us fishing? And I knew what that meant because these guys were just construction workers. They worked with my dad for years and years. But when they wanted to go fishing, that meant I had the only four-wheel drive truck. Where they wanted to go, we had to go down in the woods to a river bottom, right?

This is gnarly going down in there. I said, Yeah, why not? Chris Jenner was at home. My wife was out of town with the other three children. About 2: 30 in the day, they came back. We loaded up the fishing gear and took off to the river, only three miles away. We pulled up, parked. If I To give you an idea of where we were. Cape Fruits River. It's not a big river. It's only like 60 yards wide where we were. The main road, if you come up on a big field on the left, there's a two-run road that crosses this field, it's 200 yards across to the woodline. When you get to the woodline, there's a gate and it goes downhill 100 feet to the river by the eighth of a mile. Then you make a right and you end up in a cul-de-sac, another eighth of a mile. It's important I tell you this so you get what happened. We're now sitting on the river bank, parked about 2: 30 or a quarter to three, and I wasn't indeficient. My mind wasn't indeficient at all. In fact, I was struggling with everything. My thoughts, I'm broke.

How can I support my children? I'm 46 years old. I have this disease that's killing me. This Crohn's disease is a terrible thing. That's where my brain was. But these guys were excited. Chris Jr, I made sure they were sitting on the bank and everything's taken care of because in my mind, I'm going to walk away and go meditate in the forest somewhere. And so once they started fishing, I said, I'm going to walk down in a cul-de-sac to about an acre of grassy area, this round acre is where that road did in. And then the very back of it is where I had walked down in along the river to a gully, and I sat beside a tree till about four o'clock, and it got very dark. Not letting these guys know what I was thinking, that I'm depressed, and I'm thinking very bad thoughts, struggling with how am I going to make it? How am I going to support my kids? And about 4: 00 or 10: 00 after 4: 00, it started getting the sun going down, which about 5: 30 in January, the sun sets, right? And so I made my way back out of the woods because the canopy had made it dark and I didn't have a flashlight.

I walked right up to these guys, and they were my son, Chris Turner, and these men. They're grown men. They're running crews, they have families. And I said, I said, You guys want to fish some more? You want to go home? And they were, Well, we just got here, boss. We want to fish? I said, Well, it's going to get cold tonight. Let's get a fire going. So we went around that acre, all of us, and we gathered up all the dead wood we could find and got a fire going right on the riverbank. And it was about 10: 00 after 5: 00 now. And I said, We had a hint of daylight still. You could see the just blue sky still. I said, I'm going to walk up to the gate, meaning I'm going the opposite direction to the way we came in. And I'm going to sit at the gate by the field and I'm going to watch for deer, coyote, turkey. So I was born and raised a hunter. And I was big into hunting, hunting all over the country, from Montana to Texas, and shot my first deer at five years old.

Was shot point blank in the back with a shotgun at 10. Little hole in me this big, right in my shoulder here. I have lead, you can see on this side. That was another near-death experience when I was 10. And so I left them walking. I look back and they're sitting there by the fire, and I felt like they're taking care of. I'm going to keep walking. So all I'm doing, Sean, is crying out to the heaven. Help me. What do I do? Give me the answers. And I was a spiritual guy then in the church, and I'm praying as I'm going along. When I got within... Here's the weird thing. I was just part of the way down parallel in the river when I heard something in the woods beside me. I thought it was a deer to start with. And so I stopped and I'm looking, trying to look through this big brush and couldn't see anything. So I walked some more. When I started walking, it started walking. It scared me then. I don't ever get scared in the woods. I mean, I'm in the Boone and Crocket recordbook for shooting one of the biggest black bears in North America.

Back then, it was one of the records, 660 pounds. And I thought, I shot him from 6 foot away. I wasn't afraid then. It was too quick to be afraid. He'd come out at me. But I got afraid. Then this sound started sounding like too feet. And so I stopped and I got down on my knees and I looked under the brush because along the edges, it's really thick. Once you get in the woods, it'll open up because of a tree canopy. Never could see what that was. Three times it had me to stop and to get down to see what was that tracking me. So when I got to the curve or to the point where the road turned west and started up the hill, the sound stopped. And I'm looking up at a sky that I thought the sun was still about the top of the trees or so on, but I couldn't tell because I'm looking uphill at a cattle gate at the top of that hill. And it's a long haul up there, about 100 feet to go up. And it's rut, muddy rut and grass, some places knee high. So I'm I'm having to watch every step, and it's starting to get dark.

And the closer I got to the top of that hill, I'm not hearing this in the woods beside me now. And I wanted to tell you that because it'll come back in the picture here in a second. I got about 30 feet from the top of that hill, and I began to see what I thought was the sun, the top of it, just the very top of it. And I walked- Over the horizon? Yeah, over just... I got a gate. I'm looking up and a gate, a metal gate. The road goes up, and I could see the sun just barely above that gate and the top of the trees. When I first glanced it, I didn't think much about it. I looked down to take another step because I didn't want to walk in the mud. And about three more steps up the hill, there it was in full view. It was this blood-red, tangerine-orange a fire about 40 or 50 feet around. And I was like, Oh, my God, what is that? I could see the flames going around it and the tips were shooting off. This thing's huge, big, and it's only 300 yards away.

It's just beyond the road and just at the top of the trees and sitting there. It frightened me a second, but I'm curious. I walked up two more steps, and when I did, now my field of view has gotten wider because I don't have the trees of the road. I'm looking up the shoot now, I can see more. And there's a second one right beside it. And that's when chills came over me. So I couldn't explain it. I dropped to my knees because by doing that, I'm using the heel to hide from them. So I'd raise my head up and I could see they were there. And I'm sitting here on the ground thinking, what in the world is this? I knew it wasn't nothing from this world or from the military because I'm trained in that. In fact, I have military manuals that were given to me. It used to get you to train on different types of aircraft, from Russian to... So in my world of aviation, so I automatically knew what I'm looking at wasn't a helicopter, it wasn't something of ours. So I'm hiding there, and I crawl over to the ditch into these reeds, reeds or growing wetlands.

And so I'm kicking through these reeds thinking I'm hiding from what I'm seeing, not realizing they'd see me. And I start making my decision to run. I got to run because I'm thinking about Chris Jr. Back behind me down the hill. I've gotten frightened. I sit there long out that it really frightened me bad. So I made a plan to run, and I turned my body. I'm sitting on the ground on my knees, hiding, right? So I raised up, and I turned my body to run. I'm in the motion to run. And I look back one more time. I got to see what's up there. And when I did, straight above me, a third one appeared and went shot right down beside the other two. And I knew then I knew it saw me. I knew I was on its radar. And that's a different feeling. Somebody could see a ball of light fly by. Oh, my God, I saw a UFO. And that does something to you. But when you see it and it responds to you, and the way that did, I knew I felt like a rat, a lab rat, or I'm in trouble.

So the next thing I know, I'm about 50 yards from the fire, and I'm walking through this mud, and I have no recollection of what happened coming down that hill. I only could remember the last 50 yards of it going up to the fire. These three men are standing there around the fire. They're no longer fishing. Fire's burned down to us. It's just a little small fire. They're looking down, talking. They couldn't see me coming because I don't have a flashlight. I'm coming out of the dark. I could see them in the fire. And I snuck up on them and I said, Hey, guys, you won't believe what just happened. And the first thing, one said, Where are you, Andy? And I'm not going to use the words they use, but where have you been? I said, I was just up at the hill, what do you mean? I told you I was going up to the field. They said, You've been gone all night. I said, No, I haven't. I've been gone 20 minutes. We're arguing this, and I noticed Chris Jr is not there. And I told them, You won't believe what I just saw top of that hill, these three balls of fire.

Then immediately, Where's Chris Juneer? Well, he went looking for you two hours ago, and we can't find him now. He walked into the cul-de-sac, and so far into the cul-de-sac where you had gone earlier that day, searching for you. And I panicked, Oh, my God. These woods are huge. Sixty miles to Wilmington from where we are, and nothing but forests along that river. And all I could think is he's lost in there, 17 years old, no flashlight. And they're telling me that one stayed at the fire while the other two took my truck. And they even pointed out my truck had been moved from where I parked it. He said, We've been everywhere looking for you all night. So I immediately took off running to the back of that cul-de-sac, shouting for Junior. I was worried about what happened to me up there. I was flicked, right? And here's my son missing. And I started making my way into the woods. And around the edges of any field, especially where we live, it's real thick because it's just shrubbery, right? Same. And so I'm parting this stuff, and I'm calling out for Chris Juneer, and I get about 10 feet in there and I hear him.

He wasn't answering me until I walked right up, almost stepped on him. And he come up out of these bushes and he grabbed me and he's weeping.

This is your son? Yeah.

It's traumatic because of the struggle he had. It wasn't because of that so much. It was after, right? It was a lot of trouble after that that he went through. We'll talk more about that in a second. But to see her son in shock, eyes like this, shaking. So He's like, Why did you leave me?

What was your initial thought when you saw your son like that?

What did you think had happened? I was freaking out. I didn't want to tell him what had happened to me because he's talking out of his... He's saying things like, These creatures, dad, these creatures, why did you leave me? Why did you leave? I said, I didn't leave you, son. I had been gone for 20 minutes. He's, No, daddy, you've been gone all night.

How old was he at the time?

17. He was just a baby. He was a baby at that age. And so he began to tell me. I grabbed him. All he wanted to do is go home. He wanted to go home. He wanted to know more what happened to him. And so What he happened was where he was at the back of that cul-de-sac, he could see all the way down parallel the river to the end where I made the turn and started up the hill. So it's a quarter mile, he could see all the way down. And he's over there in the edge of the forest calling out for me while they're driving the truck. One guy sitting at the fire, and the fire is between. He's got to walk toward what he saw coming to get to the fire. So he sees these two red lights cross the road, and he thought they were flashlights, like military. I used to have a military flashlight that had a red on it, right? You remember those? And so that was his first thought. There were somebody's walking with these red flashlights. So they crossed the road over to the Riverside, disappeared. So he takes off and he runs back to the fire, and he tells these guys about these two lights he saw.

Then he turns and he goes back to the back of that cul-de-sack, still calling from me. About that time, these two red lights come back out of the Riverside, back out in the road, and they start towards him. Now, these two balls of light, they look like this big, and they're floating three feet off the ground, coming all the way down that road. As they got closer to him, he got scared, and he started hiding. So he laid down on his stomach and crawed up under, back up under the thickest rubs. And they came up within 20 feet of him. And what he saw were these two little glowing beings that were yay high, probably two and a half, three feet tall, and they had these bright red eyes. And the whole time, one was staring at him. He couldn't shout. He couldn't move. He was in such terror. He was frozen. And I I don't know if they had the power to keep him from... He thought that they had that power over him. As long as they were looking at him, he couldn't speak. So he was gone a total of two hours.

And I don't know how long exactly he was there with these little beings walking around him, but it really put him in shock. And so I led him back to the fire, and these guys were freaked out, too, because they had heard what happened. They didn't know what happened. They knew that I'd been gone all night, and Junior was talking about creatures, and I'm talking about balls of fire at the top of the hill. So these men are starting to get spuked real bad. And one of the guys looks up and points Oh, look at that. And we all look up and it looked like the brightest star, Venus, in the night sky when it's just its brightest. It was the eight or nine of these just appeared and they just came on and they went out away from one another and they came back in a circle and they made this big circle and they were putting on a shove. And then three of these things came all the way down and landed across the river, 60 yards to the other side of that river. They were up on the other side of it in a cut down.

It timbered the place out. So you can imagine Panamonium set in at that moment. We left out of there with fishing poles still there, cool everything we brought, we didn't even wait to touch it. And we jumped in that truck, and I'm taken off up through this muddy road. And one of the guys is beating on the back of my seat saying, go, go, go. And there's this red ball of light coming up behind us, following the truck. So undoubtedly, it came out of the back of that cul-de-sac. It was still in there and was coming up behind the truck. They were screaming to the top of their lungs. But the weird thing is, Sean, I was numb to it. I wasn't afraid. I'd lost all fear from where I was when it appeared on the top of that hill to now, I'm not afraid. So we make the turn and we start up that hill, and I'm going so hard with that Ford truck up that hill, and it's wallering in the ruts and the shrubs on either side of bus rushing the mirror as I sit down in the swamp. When I crossed the top of that hill, that gate, it was almost It's like, I like it to an old streets of San Francisco, maybe, where the cars would jump when they go over the hills.

We almost went airborne. That's how fast we were trying to depart that place. But when we top that hill, those three orange orbs, two of them were still in the exact same spot. Are you serious? Yeah. Now we got three 40-foot balls of white light on the riverbank behind us, and something, an orb, which I know what it was, it was one of those beings. Their eyes from a distance looked like a little ball of light. You can't really tell. And so now we're faced with two 40-foot balls of fire, 300 yards and about 200 feet in the air in front. And the third one is the one that took me. That's the one that appeared above me and shot down. That thing now is sitting in the road, and it's halfway between us and the highway. So it's 100, 150 yards away. When I went over that hill, I slammed on brakes because of that. It's sitting there. It looks like a football now. It's going white. It changed from red to white. It's sitting sideways in the road, just hovering about 5 feet off the ground, and it looks like an egg or a football.

About that time, we heard gunshots, and we all heard them. We thought immediately, one of these country boys had pulled out the shotgun, and they were shooting at this thing. So it just pivots, and it starts towards us. It's coming down the road at us, five feet off the ground. Then it starts up. But I want to back back one second. Before we heard the gunshots, there's this mobile home in the back of that field, and there were two cars there. One of the guys with me says, I know who that is. That's Shane. I play softball with him. So let's go to his house. Nobody had a phone. I didn't have a cell phone. I couldn't afford one. Nobody had And we just wanted somebody to see this with us, right? So I drove across the ditch, up in this man's yard, pulled my truck right up to his front door. And the storm door is open. I mean, it's closed, but the front door is open. So we could see the TV playing through the door, two cars in the yard. And one of the guys gets out, knocks on the door, nobody answers.

And I even blew the horn. My truck's six feet from the front door. Headlights blaring in. I'm looking back through the window, and this is the thing sitting in the road behind us, right? Because the mobile home was facing the way out, and we had turned up to the door, and that orb stood. I mean, this football was still there, 150 yards. Nobody answers. So I back, back out, and I pull back out in the road. Now I'm about 40 or 50 yards closer to this thing because we had to go forward to get to this mobile home. About that time, the three gunshots happened, and then it starts and it comes and it comes. When it gets to my truck, I open the sunroof on it, and it crossed over the top of my truck, and it was probably 60 feet up. I could have shot it It was a homemade slingshot, and it hit this thing. No sound, just glowing white light that was doing this.

Did it look solid or did it look a bit of a translucent?

It It worked. Once it got that close to us, it looked almost... It was blinding from the light. But at a distance, it looked like an egg. It's hard to tell it was translucent because the light coming off of the thing. But it was definitely shifted from a red ball of fire to a football or an egg or a tic-tac. I'll tell you how I got involved with government, because when I reported that thing, I'll tell that in a minute. So here this thing comes over my truck. Right when it got aboveWas it passing through things or was it moving around things? It moved up and over a tree in front of me.

It wasn't like it was passing through trees or trucks or- Although they do. Any- They do that. So it was doing both.

No, it came down the road and it was one tree between us and it to the side. It went up and over. When it came over the it cleared the trees behind me. It was a solid stand of woods behind me. So it had to have been about 80 feet at the most to clear them trees. Then it turned, it pivoted and shot off to the north. So I had to gasp. Now I'm flying out of there. And these guys there are just the end of the world. We've been invaded. Where's the military? Where's Fort Bragg? Get me home so I can see my wife before this before it's over. I mean, it was just drastic. Now, I'm no longer afraid. I wasn't afraid like they were. They were all terrified. So I'm sitting back, now I'm watching this take place. I wanted to get out of the truck and look at it. They're like, Having nothing to do with that. So we take off and we start toward dropping these guys off. One of them or two of them live side-by-side, about two and a half miles away. The other one live about six miles away, seven miles.

They were fighting who got to go home first. So bad that this guy that lived seven miles away went out. So we had to drive to him, drop him off, and turn around and come back to drop the other two off. But on the way, we had orbs, balls of light, tracking us alongside the truck, crossing over in front of us. And one of the most These kinds of details, I'm going to tell you now, all played a major part in my understanding of what was going on. Because halfway there between where we were and the home of the first two guys, two and a half miles, right? Halfway there is a dead man's curve. I mean, it's a sharp curve. It's like if you go through it at 35, you're having a hard time. You could lose it real easy. In fact, my first wife was killed there in that curve, and I found her.

Who do you mean you found her?

It was a weird thing.

You found her that night?

No. I'm going to tell you. In 1980, one or two, 82, we'd been married 11 months and 28 days. So we had two days before our wedding anniversary, and I had gone deer hunting to the Coast with my dad. And we were hunting islands with dogs, right? And My neighbor, Fran, growing up, we had a hunting club out in the middle of nowhere on 4,000 acres of land. Dad had it for 25 years. That's where all the young kids would go and party on Friday night or Saturday night They'd have a keg party or whatever. And I'd gone hunting, and they all called me, You got to come to the party. My wife said, I'll meet you there. She went to the party. I got home about eight o'clock from the Coast, got dressed and took off down to the party. And she had left the party and went through that curve too fast and rolled in over and into somebody's front yard. I saw the car laying on its side when I went by going to this party and the wheels were still turning. I didn't recognize the car. I got out and the people were in at the front door of their house, opened the door and looked out right when I walked up in the yard.

They heard it. I was there within 60 seconds Something of it happened. I said, Have you seen the person driving this car? They said, No. I said, You better call 911. It looks pretty bad. I'd envisioned whoever was in that car because the car's laying on the side and the wheels are still turning. The motor's running. Nobody's in the car. All the windows broke out. So I walked back toward the highway, and that's where I found her. Had no clue. Oh, man. She died right there, me open her. And so I lived a long time stressed over that, never could get over it. I should have been there. It was my fault. And so I lived with that. Well, that night, coming home from the river- What was your wife's name? It was Dana. And that whole incident on the river, on the way home, we We approaching that dead man's curve. Right over the spot where she was killed is this big thing hovering right over top. I slammed on brakes. I saw it immediately where it was, and I wanted to get out and look at it up under. I mean, it was right above us.

It was just above this big high tension power line. Well, they were fighting me bad. They're not having none of this. But what I wanted to say was that at that moment, it spoke to me telepathically or whatever and said, You need to not worry about her. She's in good hands. I take these guys on home, right? I never told them this, what happened. I only wrote about it years later. But that's when I got peace from the whole incident. After 25, 30 years or 20 years at least. I can't do the math. It was in 2007, we're married in '82. I finally got peace from that. Everybody's terrorized by UFOs, orbs, lights. And I'm thinking about this relief from what... So I'm in a different world from them now, right? And I still don't know what happened to me. I had no clue what happened for four hours. Couldn't believe So I dropped these guys off. Chris Jenner and I head back home. Now, I'm worried about him. He's panicked. He's going through the house, locking it down. Every room, he'd close the door and lock, even the bathroom. And he'd turn the lights on them.

Run up, shut the blind, turn all the lights and lock the door. I'm in my study looking on TV to try to find news. There's an invasion happening. We just knew this. It was crickets. I couldn't find anything. So Junior finally comes to the room and says, Have you found anything? I said, No, son. And then about that time, we hear something come over the house with this humming noise. I thought it was a helicopter because it was coming from Bragg's direction, which is only 20, 15 miles from me, from the base, 20 miles. And it's heading exactly towards the river. And suddenly, once it goes out of hearing, every dog in our kennel started barking. My dad raised dogs all his life. He had 100 at the time when I'm growing up. And even then, he had 15 hounds in that kennel. And these old hounds got a loud mouth and they're barking as loud as they can. And what it sounded like was they were afraid. Dogs can bark different sounds. Anybody who knows hunting, knows what a dog's saying. I knew they were scared. They were seeing something, they didn't know what it was.

I said, Junior, the only thing I could think of is where dad's kennel was is in the forest behind his house, back in the head of woods, and he had a double car, separate garage next to the kennel. So the dogs could see the kennel. I thought somebody had come from the road and was breaking into his shop, and the dog saw. That was what was going on in my head. Junior was like, We're not going out there. I said, Dad, said, Junior, we won't use a flashlight. We'll sneak down in there and use Rosie. I had a 110-pound Chesapeake Bay retriever sitting on the back steps, and her hair was standing up. She's watching towards the kennel in the woods, and this awful racket. I finally convinced him to go with me or stay, whichever he wanted. He was scared to be by himself. He grabbed me by the back of the shirt, and I'm walking real slow. I walked out the door and Rosie took off toward the kennel, ran out of sight. We walked across the lawn to a two-rupt road, went down in the woods, got to the back of that kennel.

And now all these dogs, and imagine they're very loud, and we're standing there looking at 15 hounds in a kennel barking as hard as they can towards the woods in the back. This is weird. These dogs should be looking toward the grass. And I'm whispering to Jenner, Rosie's right there in front of us, pointing in the woods, her hair's standing up, barking every day. I said, Jenner, it must be a bear. Dogs, not scared of deer, but they will do this on a bear sometimes. It just sent. It gets scared. So I said, I'm going to put Rosie in on whatever's in there, and she'll run them out. We're going to run back to the yard go to the back of the property. We made a plan, and we're going to hide behind this giant oak tree and hope we can cut her off before she runs through. As soon as I bumped her on the butt, she jumped in the woods When Junior and I took off running. We had to go to the end of that road, make a left in the yard and go to about 400 feet, 500 feet. It was a big yard, six acres there, to cut whatever's in there off.

And I just He just knew it would be a bear or deer or something. So when I made the left turn, the grass was a little... Now we got frost, right? It was cold that night. We're talking about 11 o'clock now. He pulled a loose from me, so I thought I'd just pulled away from him when I slipped a little bit. But what happened was he had had enough. He took a right, went back to the house. He's in the back. I didn't know that, though. I'm running to the back hard as I can, ran up to this big tree, and I ran so hard. I was trying to be quiet. I'm trying to catch my breath, so I'm panting. Trying to be quiet with it, right? And I stopped myself against the tree. And so I turned around after about a few seconds of stopping and panting. Dog's coming straight at me. He's coming through the forest. And I looked back to see if Chris Jenner was going to come up. And when I did, that was a little the same thing he described on the river, this little glowing being about Yey tall with a glowing red eye.

It was glowing the color of the moon. It looked like a child. It looked like a four-year-old child about that size. It didn't look like a gray alien or none of that, what people report. It looked like a glowing little child. But the detail is shiny. This thing was glassy. It was gleaming. The body looked like it glass on it. And about that time, when I turned back and saw it, it frightened me so bad that my hair stood up. Every cell of my body went, Oh, my God, I'm dead. So I went toward the trees to turn around instead of where I was standing because I didn't want to get no closer to it. So I leaned into the tree and I turned and put my back to the tree and I said, I surrender. I don't mean harm. And it said to me in this thunderous voice, it said, You don't understand. I'm not here to hurt you. We're here to help you. About that time, Rosie comes on through and this thing vanishes in front of me. I didn't see it anymore. I walked up to the house trying to figure out why it just happened and how not to tell Chris Jr.

What I just seen because he didn't want that around him any longer. And next morning, when I get up, about 10: 00 that day, I hadn't had my medication. I had been taking medication for 17 years for Crohn's. If I missed it one day, it was supper time. Yeah, I take it every day. If I missed it the next three days, my system would get out of whack, and it was more restroom. I didn't feel the normal sickness that I normally have. I didn't feel the I didn't feel any of it. I thought, This is weird. I've been living with this every day, and now I don't feel it. From that point forward, I never had another symptoms of Crohn's disease. It was completely gone. I've been to Chapel Hill University. I've had specialists check me out from top to bottom, and there's no marker for Crohn's being there. See, I come down with rheumatoid years later, in '09. And I've been treated since then for rheumatoid arthritis. And they thought it was the Crohn's that had come back, but it wasn't. The Crohn's didn't come back as rheumatoid. There was no marker there. No, RA was a different story.

But long story short, that was the end of the January seventh initial encounter, walking back to that house and trying to get my son settled down from the shock that he had been through. Now I'm in shock, basically myself, but not because of seeing this stuff and trying to process it. It's not natural. It's not normal.

What was your first conversation with your son afterwards?

I told him. I said, Son, I said, I believe They were angels. He said, No, Daddy, they had to be dead. They couldn't even get it out. They were demonic entities. I said, No, they weren't, son. They were angels. They healed me. So we battled that for months. And here's the thing. It never left me. I mean, it never left. And to this day, it's still with me. And I mean, stronger today than it was back then. This is why the government has studied me. They've studied me more than any human in existence. From DIA, CIA, DOD, the Ministry of Defense in England. Cia, Jim Simevan wrote the floor to my book. He's a director of operations. For the CIA. John Alexander wrote the forward or introduction. They both shared and write. We went through the longest time trying to convince him—I did—that it was positive, and it got worse for him because from that point forward, this is where I want to say, if I could say this word, this is where hell set in for me, because I'm telling everybody. They put it in my head that night that I had to tell the world.

So I compared myself to Richard Dreyfus on Closing Encounters of the Third Kind, where he was making the mashed potato devil's tower on his table. He could see it. He was completely obsessed with this phenomena. And I was as well. All I wanted to do is tell everybody. Well, that was the worst thing I did because now the church comes down on. You're playing with demons. It's got to be demonic entities. Might No, it's not.

Who was the first person you told?

Probably my wife. She came home a couple of days later. She had been gone, and of course, we had called her and all. But she She goes, let me say, her family, they brought the Pentecostal movement to North Carolina. They went to California. They were at the Exeter Street, her ancestors. They brought it back to Falcon, North Carolina, built an orphanage. So I had the weight of the whole conference on me, not just some local church down the street. So there was a lot of power there. And other churches, through local churches, my mother, my very religious lady, all at that time, they all automatically resorted to us to devil, it's demonic. And I'm saying, but they healed me. And that wasn't what I experienced. And they got so bad that they tried to take my children from me. They wanted to divide my family. They were telling my kids that I'm playing with the devil. He's going to ruin them children. Somebody calls social services on me. I had to deal with that with the government to try to just keep my kids, right? And so, yeah, that started a really hard time.

You had mentioned that the third object that appeared seemed to know your thoughts.

It does.

Now, what exactly does that mean?

These things can read your mind. They're connected to our thoughts. This is why one thing I can promise you, if you're a God-fearing man and you know the Bible, one One thing that the church knows is they always preach. You hear it all the time. Only God can read your thoughts. Only heaven, not that the devil can't read your thoughts, right? So this is something to talk to all Christians from early on. The devil can whisper in your ear, but he can't read your mind. Well, they read your mind, and they know every... They're connected to us. They're connected to our thoughts. They know your heart, they know your intentions. And somehow, another song, they have the ability to stop the timeline, to manifest things, to make things happen, and to I've seen it a thousand times. People come to see the phenomenon with... I have as many as 75 with me at the time, and it appears. But there are certain people, if they're afraid or if If they're skeptical, I can tell you, skeptical people about this phenomenon will never see anything. They're left out. Because if they know your free will, they don't want to change or go against your free will.

But they can appear in a group of 50 people standing beside me, and that one skeptical person will look that way for one second, and it'll appear in front of everybody else. I've seen it a thousand times. It knows where are you going to look before you look.

Interesting.

Yeah, seriously.

You had mentioned, I believe you had two near-death experiences before this incident. Was that at age 10?

Ten. I was shot point-blank with a shotgun.

What was that near death experience?

Well, it was New Year's Day, 1972. After hunting season, season had gone out on the 31st, and so it was fix the roads on Saturday and cook a hog. So we got all these men that's part of the club, we're out repairing the roads and all the farm. And my grandfather and the farmer that owned the land was at the club tending to the hog on the cooker. So myself at 10 and my best friend and my first cousin grabbed a shotgun, took off about a mile away, three quarters of a mile. We walked to the back of a cornfield and we spread out and we were going to shoot duffs. It was duff seed. And this bird came over. My neighbor, he shot at it, missed it, came right over, and I shot, and it turned, and it went away and landed in the woods. I knew I had to hit it. So I took off across the field walking, a double barrel shotgun in my hand. I walked up to the edge of the woods and I saw him in there in a pile of briers, floping, buttering around. So I thought, I better put a shell in my gun in case it gets up and flies away.

So I cracked that double barrel open and I pulled two shells out of my coat and I put one in and dropped the other. Did not know that my friend wanted to claim that he shot the bird, right? And ran across the field behind me. I didn't know he was there. Ran up right behind me. And when I reached over and took that shell off, he was going to shoot over me. He'd shoot that bird claim. Kids, when I stood up, it hit me right square right here in the shoulder, blew a hole this big. I have a scar that big on my back. Now, imagine a 10-year-old. I was only this tall. It felt like a sledgehammer hit me. It drove me about 10 feet forward and face down in the forest. And the first thing, I felt blood running everywhere. And I said, Why did you shoot me? And now my cousin's coming across the field and they're fighting. They're screaming at one another, Go get help. He's my cousin. I'm staying with him. He's my best friend. I'm going to stay. And that's what they were doing. I'm laying there bleeding of death.

And so the farmer heard them fighting. Here he comes down that cornfield in an old pickup truck. It was a blue and white Ford from the '60s. He runs in the woods, picks me up like a sack of potatoes, and threw me in his truck. Took me to the hospital. Next thing I know, I'm up in a space looking down from way up high. I could see the Earth getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Then I wake up and I'm out of surgery, and I'm in an X-ray room. Back then, I had so much lead in me from bird shot that I still have 17 pieces in here. You can see it on this side, all in this shoulder and this front. I set the airport X-ray machine off. They'll pat me down most every time I go through because of that. But all I remember is seeing Earth from above and being out of my body in total peace. It wasn't cold. I wasn't afraid. I was just at a marvel of looking at all this. And then when I came back, too, there's my mom looking through the wind of crying.

What was the other one? You had too much medication for the Crohn's Well, I'll tell you what they did.

And this is in the book. There's a whole lot in this book I've not covered. I've glossed over. Along about 2004, my Crohn's was so bad. I mean, it was in bad shape. And I was in such depression because I had lost $19 million in savings and networth, gone. I've sold every apartment building or house I had, rentals. They had a lot of just to pay We sold the business to a really big builder from North Carolina that builds 1,500 homes a year. My doctor is treating me. He's like, he would just hug me and cry with me. We've been friends forever. He said, I'm sorry for getting emotional here. He's thinking back. He was His heart. Today, it's wonderful and joyful. It's a different world today, but those old memories are tough. But he said, Look, there's a new study out. There's this antidepressive medicine called Paxl that supposed to show help for Crohn's because stomach problems are exacerbated from stress. The more you're worried, the worse it gets. And I was so bad that my whole inside was inflamed and was very painful. And so he puts me on Paxel, and he tells me I should probably have somebody to talk to.

So he sends me to a psychiatrist, right? Never thought about anything like that. And I was embarrassed to go, but he convinced me, you need to do this. So I go to this psychiatrist, and I thought it was odd when I walked into his room, he was smoking a cigarette and laughing and talking to me. And he only spent five minutes with me. He looks at my paperwork and what the doctor prescribed, and he said, Oh, you're on all the wrong stuff. He didn't take me off that. He added more to it. He just added a couple of prescriptions. He said, Take this and come back in five days or next week or seven days. Every week, I had to go back once a week. Within 60 days, I didn't know who I was. And I had gone into... I was unconscious. What he did, he had put me on something called lithium. I didn't know what it was. I didn't know even what the scribble was. He didn't tell me that's what it was. He just broke his prescription. And the thing, when you take that, you're supposed to test your liver for metals, and all your system, your organs can fail because of toxic metal poisoning.

Well, that's what happened to me. I woke up in the hospital. I was laying on a stretcher, completely covered from head to toe. And I come up out of my body and I was at the ceiling and I could see down my wife sitting there. Three doctors walked in to run, and she was crying. And I never forget, I heard the doctor's name, which I won't say it now because of his privacy, but the guy said, Good evening, doctor. This is the 113th patient that this physician has injured or put in the hospital. Come to find out, the guy that was treating had gone off the deep end and was taking medication himself. I don't know what he was taking, but he overdosed and died while I was in the hospital. He put 113 patients of his in the hospital and overdosed and died. This has happened. This is happening. This is in the book. Why? It's like getting shot. I didn't want that. I didn't ask for it. It just happened. Now, here it is, somebody else is It's poisoning me. It was always... It just seems like everything that's happened to me has been out of my hands.

There's a lot in this book that I've been through from third-degree burns, catching on fire. When I was two years old. I had big scars up my legs. So a brand new transam in '79 blew up 2,000 miles in the radiator. It overheated and the radiator exploded and put me in the hospital with third-degree burns from my neck to this arm. I had skin grafts. A brand new car. So I thought all my life, something's trying to keep me from being here or keep me from doing something one day.

So the near-death experience was you witnessing the conversation between the doctor and your wife? Yes. Anything else?

That's all I remember.

It was- And then you were back in your body.

I'm back in my body and miserable now, recovering. Yeah.

All right, Chris. Well, let's take a quick break, and then we'll move on to what happened afterwards. Okay. All right, Chris, we just went into the event and what happened there. Thank you for the very descriptive event. I was hoping... Well, I guess I shouldn't say it was hoping. I was wondering if anything had happened in those near-death experiences that might relate to this, but it doesn't sound like there was really anything that related to this.

It all relates.

It does? Yes.

It all relates to it. In fact, I believe that when I was 10 years old, when that happened to me, it was so dramatic. I grew up with a gun in my hand, five years old. It was just part of being where I was raised. Ten years old, I'm carrying a gun and got shot. So my whole life changed to a different from a different perspective. And I didn't realize it until this event happened in 2007. But I can look back, and I write about this in the book, a lot of things, it In other words, I began to see after this doctor poison me the second time, the weirdest thing happened. My family, all of them can tell you. I would be sitting in my kitchen And this is right after the thing in the hospital. I was seeing things that my family couldn't see in my house, and I'd tell them. And they thought I was going nuts. They thought I was still on drugs, but I had completely gotten off all that. And it took a long time to get back to where I felt halfway normal. But I could see things.

What things?

Well, I could see this little being in the house. You walked by and I'd tell them, and they were filming me and they couldn't see it. So I know it opened something up on me.

Who was filming?

My wife and kids would film me talking about what I'd see in the house, this little being. It would be about this tall. Looked like Gazoo, you might say, from Fred Plintstall. It could hover in the house. And I began to wonder, Am I going crazy? Am I seeing things?

Did it look human?

Yeah, it sure did.

Did you interact with it?

I did. I'd be talking to it. What would you talk about? He even had a name for it. It was named Johnny is what I called it. My kids, they would laugh. They thought I was completely... Then I'd just come out of the hospital, too, and I was heavily medicated. But I knew that opened me up to the spiritual world, to the other side.

What would you interact with the being about?

We'd have conversations. He was always watching over me, protecting me. And my wife's like, Who are you talking to?

Do you remember any of the conversations, specifically? Are there any conversations that stick out?

Not in detail, other than I knew it was there watching over me. It wasn't a scary thing. It wasn't like it was there to harm anybody. It was there to get me through what had just happened. It was protecting me.

What would the conversations be about?

It was always positive about healing and reinforcement that I was going to be all right because I'd just come through a near death. And that eventually faded away after a few months, and I stopped seeing it, but it was always there, and it was very real to me. And it later showed up after the 2007 incident. This was in '04 and '05. In '07, when this thing happened. And I'll tell you something else, too. This was really weird. In '05, we were forced to move because we had sold out and lost everything, moving from a big house to a mobile home. We were having Thanksgiving dinner at my mom's. We built the new house or the mobile home, we restored it. It was an old one I had as a rental property. I moved it on their lot next door, out in the country, beside mom and dad. It was Thanksgiving Day night, and I The whole family was there, from sisters to everybody. I guess it was nine o'clock at night, 9: 30. A couple of the guys smoking, went outside to smoke. Eventually, I went outside to conversate. We looked right over where we were going to sit the mobile home.

Before we even put it there, there is a football field long, glowing cigar, maybe 200 feet above the lot right over top of the trees. It was barely moving. And my kids, myself, my mother, all of us watched it. You could walk beside it. It was so slow, no sound. And it really didn't register with me at that time. But that was before the river event.

So with the being, how would it converse back with you?

Well, the first couple of times I could hear it audible speaking, but it didn't move its mouth. It's like you could hear it.

Was it English?

Yeah. Very deep voice, very loud. But now today, it's more telepathic. It's images. And we've proven that on television, on the History channel, that my brain is communicating with this phenomenon.

Could you be a little more descriptive of what the being looked like?

Yeah, it looked like a four-year-old child.

A four-year-old?

Four-year-old. About like a three, four-year-old, a little toddler, not much more than three feet tall, glowing softly like the color of the moon with these red eyes, and it had a triangle shape. Underneath it was glowing, gleaming from head to toe. They had this triangle on its chest right here. And that turned out to be a pretty big symbol for some people in the government.

What is that symbol?

Well, there's one right here from NASA. That's a triangle on that pin. I wonder how I got that. They were the first ones to come wanting to know about that little being with the triangle on its chest.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Did it wear clothing?

It was gleaming so bright. It had something on, but it looked like the outer layer of it was just glossy, gleaming, brilliant. There's a description that Daniel gave in chapter 10 in the Bible where he describes an angelic being, that his encounter. And he says that his body was gleaming like topaz, and it had tortuous fire, red, glowing eyes. This is Daniel's description straight of the Bible, and it was given to me by scholars to read.

Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. How many times... I mean, man, I've got a lot of questions. How many interactions the day would you have with this?

Well, I would say today is more than ever. Today has gotten to where... Let's say at that time back then, after it happened, after the initial counter and all my kids come home, and I'm being told not to talk about it because it was scary, and they had my wife believe it's demonic. And for a long time, which is understandable when you're raised in a church, they all say this is demonic. Well, they don't know. They have no clue. Nobody does. I'm telling you, not even the Pope, they don't know. Everybody imagines what's out there, speculates. Until you see it and you interact with it, you're speculating, you're questioning. But it immediately followed me home. And these orbs would appear, a ball of light flash and out steps these shadowy figures. And they would walk through the house and walk through walls. It would look like a human, same size and all.

This This is before?

No, this is right after the event, 2007.

Let's just keep it before the event for right now. Okay. Did it have hair?

I didn't see any hair. It's just so much gleaming there. It's hard to get the detail, the brightness of this thing standing 4 feet away. I could see its eyes because they were red, right? And they were glowing in this triangle shape. I actually drew it and painted it in 2009. But they did this little glowing, glowing little entities.

And these are the same type of eyes that you saw at the river?

Yes. It's what my son described. Now, the being that I was telling you about when I come out of the hospital for a few months there, I kept seeing this little being. It didn't have red eyes. It looked like a person, a little small person, but it floated about.

Okay, that's what I was referencing. Right. So Johnny.

Johnny, he looked like a little person. Just a little...

And He had a triangle. No.

The one in the river that scared Chris Jr. In 2007, the one that night that I saw, didn't look like Johnny. Johnny just looked like a... Just glowing so bright that the detail is hard to-So I'm talking about Johnny.

Right. Johnny was not glowing.

It looked like a little Well, it's a small person, but it didn't look- Could you differentiate between a regular three-year-old, four-year-old child and this? Yes, because it seemed to be grown or an adult, but small. It spoke like an adult. It interacted with me like an adult. But that didn't last long. This was after all this medication the daughter put me on.

So what did you think that was?

I thought it was a Guardian Angel.

Right away, you thought it was a Guardian angel, and the entire family said that it was demonic.

Not then. They didn't say anything. They just were listening and filming. This was in '05.

What were they filming?

Me. They were recording me. Interacting with? Interacting, yeah.

So can I have access to any of that film?

I'd have to get my wife to dig it up. But she has a lot of stuff she recorded. All my kids after the event on the river.

So what does that... What do those films look like? Does that look like you interacting with thin air?

Well, yes, probably some of them, yeah, I'm sure.

I would love to get some of that footage, if possible, in I will see. Insert it.

I will see if she can do that.

How many... Ryan, sorry, you're now on the Sean Ryan show. Have you seen these films?

I was there.

What did it look like? What does it look like to see your dad interacting with thinner?

I was 10 years old, so I understood it the way that my mother explained it to me, which was that he was going off the deep end. We just thought it was funny. Like, oh, he's on medicine. He's hallucinating. He's an imaginary friend. And I don't know. I mean, you can't really understand what's happening when you're 10. So I just laughed. They I thought I was nuts. And rightly, I had been overmedicated and still... But that medication opened me up to something that two years later came out of the sky and took me.

We'll get there.

Yeah.

What about this being made you think that it was a Guardian angel and that it had your best interest?

The way it was talking to me. It was there. It tell me. It was there to protect me. It was watching over me and that I was going to be fine. I just come through a hard time and light, and I'm still sick. I'm still with Crohn's. I'm still really bad shape. And then got shot with basically shot with a gun with this medication, and I'm still sick, and now I've got this to deal with. Did you ever try to make contact, physically touch? I never did. You never did. Because it would be brief. It would appear, and it won't be there long. It would be there just a little bit, a few seconds or long enough to maybe a in it, and then it was gone. It would just banish in front of me. And they all thought, and rightly so, that I had lost my mind, that this just didn't happen. And this exacerbated the 2007, two years later, when I come home talking about it, my wife's like, he still lost it. He's gone crazy. And the whole community said, he's crazy. And then when everybody started experiencing it with me in the family, now it's demonic.

It's really happening to this guy, but he's bringing the devil into his house. This is where it ended up.

When did it disappear for good before the incident?

Within six months, maybe. Or late 2005, I'd say, is when it ended. I didn't see it anymore. And then a year later, remember, I'm on the river, and that when it come out of the sky, and that's when it healed me. And it said, We're not here to hurt you. We're here to help you.

Did you respond to that?

Yeah.

What did you say?

Well, I didn't really speak other than I surrender I'm sorry. I don't mean you any harm. And it's telling me this in my head. And I felt this greatest joy and this sense of relief that I understood now, the more fear And that's why immediately when I reported it, I knew it was the same angelic beings, but it didn't look like this little being I'd seen two years prior. But I related it all in the same thing. There's a lot of different things that can appear around you. It can appear any way it wants to.

So after the incident, when you describe this to your family, did they put two and two together that this has happened, not this exact thing, but that you had been in contact with some type of being before.

Well, yeah. They thought I was... First off, they didn't want to believe me.

And now you have another family member, your son, who also experienced it.

Yeah, that's corroborating it. And they still tried to think, This can't be true. It just can't be true. And that's That's what was making me so emotional about Chris Jr. He struggled so hard, and he comes home telling what he saw, and nobody wanted to believe him. They're just like, he's crazy like his dad. Here, I run an $18 million $20 million a year company, and I went through a terrible time with sickness and a doctor, and I come out the other side, and now I'm crazy. This guy's crazy. And so the whole community basically Basically, started mocking my family. And this is after the '07 incident. And it turned into five years of what I call in the book, Five Years of darkness. From '27 to 2012. When that 2012 came, everything changed.

Who did you contact about this incident with afterwards?

Well, I didn't for the first 10 months because when I came home, and I was told this, immediately my wife trying to keep peace in the family and her little whole world right now. Chris has come home telling this big tale and got Junior telling it with him, and nobody wanted to believe it. My dad made fun. He must be on drugs, still on drugs. I was only on medication at a doctor's gave me, won't drinking alcohol, none of that. Here, everybody started that. Then within a few months or weeks, my wife would take the kids out to see her mom or go to church I wasn't going to church anymore. I'm at home in my study in complete depression because nobody believed me, what happened. Now, nobody's believe in my son. Pushed us away from the church, but she would be in town coming home and Kids running the door. Oh, my God, dad, you won't believe what we saw on the way home. There was a big triangle thing in front of the car, flying right down in front of us, following us home. So now my kids are coming home, and I just sat back and I'd smile.

Thank you. Thank you, Lord. Because I was praying every day, Lord, let my family, let my children experience what I did so at least they would believe me. And I'll never forget, and I'll tell you in a minute what My wife said when the first investigator came.

Who did you call?

In October. This was in January when it happened. Ten months later, October, I saw on the television a show called UFO Files. And there was this Stenton Freeman, a physicist on there, and he's talking about UFOs. I'd never seen any of those shows. And it come across, Report your sighting to Mufon. So I quickly got their email address and I wrote them.

What does Mufon stand for?

It's a mutual UFO network. It's a data, so investment investigation thing that people report sightings to, and a pretty big outfit, international. So that's the go-to. If you have a sighting, you go to Mufon. I had never heard of it until I saw it on TV. So I made the report, and I was so afraid to send it that I didn't send it for two weeks because I just knew if I did, I'd lose my family. I was told never to talk about it again. Well, I didn't know what happened to me for four hours. If I tried to think about it, I would pass out. My family would see it. If you started to question me and I tried to think, I'd pass out. I sent it two weeks later, it was the 13th of October, and immediately they wrote me back, Oh, we want to talk to you. Well, I got scared. I said, No, this is too real now. I don't want to lose my family. So I told them, No, I just wanted to report it, but I don't want to interview. January comes along, they write me again. We're going to close the case, but we really want to talk to you.

By then, it's been a year now, I can't function. My head had some block, and I couldn't think at all. And so I said, okay. And February, they sent a guy from a local investigator from Raleigh, North Carolina, and he came in there. And that's when my wife said, Have you ever heard of... What do you know about shadowbeings? Now, we'd never talked about the UFA thing, but she'd been seeing these in the house and got loved a couple of times just to get her attention. I was praying every day, Lord, let her see it. And she looked at me and said, Don't ever pray for me like that again. But it was in the house. It was interacting with the kids, orbs over the house. Outside, but I could never share it with anyone except my immediate family.

So at this point, the entire family is witnessing this?

My whole family. My four children, my daughter, she was 10 years old then. Ryan was 13. Jeremy, he was 15. Chris Jenner was 17. Emily, she's the only girl. He's the baby. And now they're being told by the church, your dad is dealing with demons, Welles. And they didn't want to believe it because they were seeing it with me. So it was a horrible place to be when the whole community come down on us there. And It continued for five years. But what happened was the community didn't let up. The church didn't let up. I don't mean just my wife's side, but all the churches around, even the original ones, the people were talking. The boys that were with me, their children were catching a fit. Let me back up. In 2007, I reported it. 2008, the Investigator Come, and immediately they sold me on doing a show on Discovery channel. You got to do it. We'll vindicate you. You do this show, everybody will believe you. So I agreed to it. I had to beg Junior to participate. Well, they did their show, and immediately they set me up. They set me up to...

They were coming to my house to do an interview and called me, Can you come to the hotel and sign all the paperwork? And then we're going to go from there. Well, when I got in that hotel, they had a guy from the FBI there with a lie detector thing set up and cameras pointing at it completely. I did 34 questions for 2 hours. They just over and over and over. And then on the show, they called me. They said he was lying about seeing an entity. Now, things got really bad, the whole community, and now the school, my children's school. They're being made fun of. Their dad's crazy. They were laughing at my kids. It nearly ruined my voice. They were all thinking girls, dating. Now, everybody's laughing at them in the hallways, calling them out in the school class and making them tell the stories. So five years goes by of that, of pure nightmare. But NASA shows up, a friend from NASA, Dr. Hal Pivenmire.

A friend?

Well, he's a friend. He wasn't a friend then. No, I didn't know him. In fact, my son Ryan calls me, Dad, there's somebody here from NASA. He wants to talk to you. I said, Well, tell him to stick around. I'll be home about an hour, 6'5, Huge, man. We were afraid of the government so bad because Mufon and the UFO World said, The Men in Black was on TV then. They'll kill you. The government will kill you. Don't ever talk to different ones and names they would use. And so now we're terrified the government's knocking on our door. He comes in and he became a father figure to my children. And he died in '19, he'd been to my daughters and my children's birthdays. He would come from Cape Canaveral all the way down to the piano recitals, their graduation, their birthdays, and we become best friends. And he's They studied me. And long about 2012, '13, another guy comes.

What was the initial guy's name?

Dr. Hal Pommenmire. He was at NASA 59 years when he died.

What were they studying?

First off, he wanted to know about that little glowing being with a triangle on his chest. When he first came, his mission, he told us, My mission was to debunk you. So he He came and initially met us. Then he left on his own. We didn't know where he went back home, but he didn't. He was searching records from the Sheriff's Department to the FAA, to knocking on every door in that community out there asking, Did you see something? And he found out that eight other people that night all witnessed it fly over their houses and stuff. One guy was 70 years old, sitting on his front porch, and it went 20 feet over his house. And so Howe knew then that this was real. And he became like a father figure. He would come and entertain my kids more than he would me because he It's just that guy. And so all throughout the five years after the event happened, Hal was the one there. There were other military people calling from the Air Force, sending letters, wanting me to interview, wanting me to draw pictures and all this stuff, and I would just stay away from it.

I was still scared of how. I didn't know who this guy was yet. It was just five years into it. But we love... My kids loved them, but I'm still who he is. And so in 2012, at Easter of 2012, this is when everything changed. This is really what got the US government knocking on my door. This is why I'm here today. 2012, Saturday night, Easter. Sunday morning is Easter, right? At three o'clock in the morning, so it's actually Easter Sunday morning, three o'clock in the morning, I'm asleep in the bed, dead asleep. That night before, I had had all I could stand to see my kids coming home crying and the whole community making fun of the family and my dad. Now they've been experiencing this stuff. They know it's happening, but they couldn't contest adults. They went tallback. They knew better. But it was really my little girl coming home crying from people picking on her. So I walked outside that night. And I remember I had this desire to tell it to everybody. I had to tell it. It was like the Richard Dreyfuss close This encounter thing. So I walked outside that night at 9: 30, and I looked up to the sky, and I said, Thank you for ruining my life, my children.

I said, Thank you for healing me and proving to my family that you're real, but this life is worse off now for my whole family. I'm better physically, but now my family is in shambles, all because of me. And I shouted to the heavens. And I see these things. They're coming. These orbs are always around. And I knew it heard me. I knew it was... So I went to bed. Three o'clock in the morning, I hear the same voice, the same little being that spoke to me. She said, I'm here to help you, not hurt you. I heard that same voice, and it sounds like a man, really deep. It said, Arise. That's all I heard, that quick word, arise. It was so deep. It was like thunder in my room. I jumped up from laying in the bed, dead asleep, to sitting up in my bed, and it's dark, I can't see. There was three o'clock on my other... Back then, we had a alarm clock, and it said 3: 00 AM. Next thing I know, I see movement in the room, whatever they did to me. They caused me to get dressed and follow out the door.

Now I'm outside and I'm walking towards my dog, kind like three o'clock in the morning, fully dressed, clothes from being asleep. And suddenly this figure hands me something as far out as it sounds. I'm telling you, it sounds crazy. It took me two weeks to tell it because I'm They all lived me crazy. And I stopped talking about it. Now, five years later, this happens. What happened was it handed me this object, and it felt like a living creature, like a squirrel, maybe, or something that size, but I couldn't see or feel legs or a head. It felt just like a tube of furry. It prickled. It handed it to me and said, You must keep this. Immediately, I dropped it because I know what it was, and it was prickly. And his words came again, No, you must pick this up. You must keep this. So I reached down and pick it up. When I did, This being that was standing there is now gone. And I'm at the dog kennel, so I'm juggling it in my hand. I know I need to see what this thing is. It's dark, so I went to the kennel, put it in, and closed the door.

And the very second I did that, It's blasted air come directed. It wasn't in the woods and around us. It was right straight in front of me. A blast of air hits me and blew me over the wind. Later on, I understood the Holy spirit. The word spirit means the wind. The Holy spirit means the breath of God. So I had to put this in there. But it was the wind. A physical force blew me over. And as I hit backwards on the ground, I saw what appeared to be a translucent cow, a bull, run over me, and I could see stars inside of it up through it.

That's what they had handed you?

Well, what they handed me, I put in the kennel. When I locked the door or closed the door, now a blast of air next to the woods hits me. And out of that wind, when the wind hit me and blew me over, with that wind was a translucent cow or bull, a bick Someone went over me and it didn't hurt me. But I could see it clearly. I could see the stars inside. This is really strange because I just...

It's definitely strange.

I'll get back to this in a It's a minute of something I just saw, discovered with a guy that studies Egypt, Dr. Robert Grant. He discovered that bull inside the King's chamber. There's never been a inscription in that pyramid, nowhere. So he goes in with LiDAR, and there's that bull, Celestial Bull, with stars inside of it. He and I just worked this thing out. He'd seen it. He shared it with me. And when I told him what happened to me, he got some other clues out of that. But it was exactly what I saw. But now, listen, when the bull went over, I land on my back and I'm getting up the run. So I roll over, now I'm looking this way. And behind me, there's no cow anymore. There's a woman there. She's about three feet off the ground. She's glowing to the color of the moon. There's a circle of light on the ground. And she looks at me and she says, You know why I'm here? And I knew I was crushed, basically, because I'd had this overwhelming desire to tell the world what I'd seen. And then that night, I cursed at the heavens and said, I'm never doing that.

I'll never speak again. And now she's like, You know why I'm here? This is your burden you must bear. She said that. She said, If you tell this story, I'll always be with you. I'll allow you to share our presence with others and film us. So help me. I never had a picture of anything for the previous five years. Only inside the house when people see this or out in my children. Now everybody's coming to the house and it appears overhead. It appears around us, and it's greater today than it was then. And magic started happening. And when that word got out, then comes This is government. They want to know about this lady.

Let's pause right there. I have questions. Okay. So the initial, what was it that you were handed?

I've been asked that a million times. I don't know. It was like a living creature.

It was living. It was moving around?

But it had no head or legs. It felt like if you had a squirrel in your hand or hedgehog, that prickly, it It felt like it was living, but it had no head or tail. And I asked the lady what this was, and she told me it was symbolic of humanity had lost its direction. And No head or no tail. It completely lost its direction. And it vanished when I went back- You were right on the money with that. Exactly. She told me a lot of stuff that I I've never revealed, and to this day, I haven't revealed a whole lot of it because I don't want to sound like a prophet or any of that. I just don't. My goal is to share this story with everyone and share the phenomenon, which I have been able to do.

What did the figure look like that handed you the object?

It was a shadowy being, like a shadow being. So when you see these, you see this shadow of a human figure, but you can't really see the details. It's like a shadow. It's like a ghost, you might say. And I have pictures of these little beings, and they look like ghosts. I have a video of one of these beings coming out of an orb. Flash.

Can I see that video?

Yeah, I'll give you one. It's six foot tall, seven foot tall. And when it did, that night, a young lady with me was healed from cancer. This happened in 2015. But But- What did the Bull represent, do you think? I had no clue.

Remember- You worked with Robert Grant?

Robert Grant is who I was with last in Contact the Desert a couple of months back. And Robert was showing the Oculus to me about what he had discovered in the pyramid. So he put these goggles on and he does this LiDAR. And their biggest daylight is a bull on the side of the wall in the King's chamber. It only can see it with this technology has, and the stars are inside. And above it is a helix of DNA. And then on the sarcophicus in the King's chamber is the Alpha and Omega symbol.

What do you think that represents?

Well, Alpha and Omega is God, the beginning and the end. The bull is the celestial bull, the to me, the lady that came to me is the Holy spirit, the breath of God, the wind, the Virgin Mary, Hathor, Demita, Diana, Pravadi. In every culture on every continent, they all have a mother figure, all of them, including the Egyptians. They believe in the Trinity. When you read the Egyptian stuff, it was In the beginning, it was Pita was the father, Met was the mother, and then they had a change to Ra and then Hathor and then Horus, which is the divine Trinity. They had a triad. I think that the lady, the women, the feminine, was taken out of the equation by a bunch of men in 2000 years ago and oppressed all the women, kicked them out and said, you can't be in the church. Only it's a boys club, right? And so from that point forward, the women have been oppressed. They made to wear things over with her face and head. And even up in the '60s and '70s, me growing up, there was a great oppression on the women. But that's my belief.

And it doesn't matter in Christianity or in any religion, none of us really know.

And so how did the government get involved? And what is it... Let me rephrase that. What is it that caught the government's attention?

Okay. So now this happens at Easter of 2012.

Let me ask another quote. I'm sorry. Do you think there's any significance to this happening on Easter?

A hundred %.

And what is that?

Well, you tell me what Easter means.

The resurrection. Yeah.

Every year, every year at Easter, either she comes back or something miraculous happens every year at Easter.

Every year since 2012?

Every year since then. Every year, including this year. And my son Ryan and his wife and my grandson Teddy. Of course, my wife was a little bit scared, so she turned her head and ran in the house. But we all got to experience it this year at Easter. And exactly when I told them, at 8: 30, it's going to appear. We ran to the restaurant to eat, and I'm fussing, We got to be home. We got to be home by 8: 30. When we drove up in the yard, it was 8: 30. When I opened the door, it appeared behind the car. Here it come, this big, glowing, blue white ball of light through the forest, going in and out of the trees. It was approaching us, and my wife, freaking out, ran in the house. But it's always something like that, miraculous on Easter. It just feeds more into my understanding of the phenomenon, the whole thing. She always comes in threes. Not always, but it's overwhelming. Three is very meaningful in this three. And I thumbed it over and over three orbs together. They'll line up like a triangle. They'll fly through the sky in a triangle.

I said, Well, if I didn't, I'll give you a video of that. They have multiple videos of that. It's always showing that symbol of three.

Now, what is it that caught the government's attention?

So one of the things it did is in October of '20, No, 2013. I got a call from a professor in Wilmington about... It's a religious scholar, very famous. She's written several books, and you'd probably know her if I said her name, Dr. Diana Pasalka. She lived an hour and a half from me, and she was given 2,000 reports by Mufon to to investigate why 2,000 people reported angels, angelic beings that year. They were seeing these. Now, you only ever hear about the bad stuff. You only ever hear about somebody being on a table with multiple instruments and all this stuff, abduction to bad. But overwhelmingly, 95% of all of it, people come away with angelic experiences. It's heavenly. That's one of the things that you will never hear about. But October, I walk outside. I was a smoker then. I was watching TV with my wife. I pause the TV at 9: 30, so I'm going to go out and smoke. So I walked out on the back patio. She comes out a few minutes later and out in the back of our property, about 100 yards back in the dark, all of a sudden we see barks come from the ground and go up in the air.

And she said, What's up with that tree? I said, I don't know, but I see it. Suddenly, it rained for two days. Ground was wet. This tree erupts into flames and goes shooting fire 13, 14 feet up in the air, burnt a hole inside It burnt from the inside out. Well, that got the attention of government. And how it was there? Now this other player from NASA wants to come see this tree. And he's code names the Dragon. He runs all the launches for the NASA. He's the head guy. He's National Recognition Office. That got me involved with the NRO. Next thing I and Cape Canaveral sitting with these guys, half a dozen of them. That expands into a whole lot more. Now, I'm dealing with two people from NASA. And This gets in a medical study, stem cell research, and that happened a year later. And I'll tell you what got me there. Here's really what got the attention of the government. They heard about the tree. They all wanted to come see it, and they started. But I got a phone call in early Easter, Easter of 2013. I write about the whole experience of my book.

I have experience with the lady. Two weeks later, this journalist comes from Canada, calls me. I want to come see that burning tree. He'd heard about it. He's heading to Florida, so he stops following the way while they're right along 95. He stays the night, goes to Florida, and he comes back, comes again, wants to see more of the tree and get more story. My kids are all home. It's five o'clock in the afternoon. He drives up in the driveway, He pulls up, gets out with his camera, no clothes, no bags. He just gets out. He wants to go see this tree and film it before dark. He's out there at the tree. I'm with him. There's a Labrador. My dog is Nelly. He'll grown female lefts laying there beside us. Everywhere I'd walk, she'd walk. We get back to the house. We stopped just short of the door, and Nelly stops, and she's laying there, and Grant and I are talking, just glad to see one another. And I'm like, You want to stay tonight? I get kids to get your bags. And they were all out there. It was six or eight more people outside.

He said, Yeah, I'd love that. So he's between me and the back door. The house is open, the back door is open, the windows It was in May. It was May the 11th or May the fifth. It was only two weeks after Easter. Nelly stands up and starts towards the door when Grant turns. And when she walks by, and I see blood come out of her neck, and it shot way out like a stream of blood. I was like, I'm freaking out. And Grant saw it. She sprayed blood all over his pants when she went by. She ran in the back door, bleeding, bleeding all over the floor. I ran and tackled her and took her outside and laid her on the concrete. And I was going through my head, Oh, my God. And Grant's filming this from above. All my kids were gathered around, and she's got a hole inside her neck, crossed her, juggled pain that long. I could stick my finger in it that deep and blood just shooting out in a heartbeat. I had my hand on it, blood coming up through my fingers there. I knew she was going to die.

They were 30 minutes from a vet, way out in the country. No, couldn't call an ambulance. I went through all this in my head. I said, She's going to die. Everybody's freaking out. I just looked up to the heavens. I said, Lord, help her. She went limp. And so I picked my hand up and that hole was gone. Everybody saw it, disappeared perfectly like nothing had happened. She stood up, waggled her tail and walked away. He filmed it all. And it didn't take long that word got out. Next thing, I get a call from somebody connected to CIA, and he says, What are you doing this week? What are you doing tomorrow? I said, This is 2014. I said, July fourth, it's Friday. The day is the second. My kids are coming home from college. We're going to have a party for the family. He said, Well, I need you in DC. I said, DC? He said, Yeah, there's a young boy up there that's really sick, and they've tried everything they can to help him, and he's got to make a wish. In fact, Barack Obama gave him his make a wish. We have all the photos of him shaking Barack Obama's hand.

Michael Morel, Deputy Director of CIA, put him in his book, wrote about him. So you can imagine this young boy is in the midst of all these power brokersers in Washington. And his mom's a doctor. His grandpa's a cardiologist in New York. And they have spelled They were out of options. And so I agreed to go. He flew me up there, picked me up, took me to Arlington to where they had the fourth of July parades and all this flags and stuff. And I had no clue who I was meeting. I had no idea of what I was doing. I had seen a dog miraculously get healed, and I didn't know what happened and how that happened. But these people thought, at least we could try something you a foci that healed the dog to help this child. So I was terrified. I didn't know what to say, I didn't know what to do. I was praying silently while I'm sitting here in front of this little boy. He's got a feeding tube. They're telling us he's not going to live another year. And I'm with his mom and dad and him, and I prayed all night, Lord, help me.

What do I do? So I stayed to one o'clock that morning, and this child had my chondral DNA disease, meaning he could never eat. If he ate food, he threw it up profusely. He couldn't make nutrients from the food, so he was dying. Once they get the feeding tube, it's over. Usually, they're dead right away. I stayed 1: 00 in the morning, and it wasn't an audible voice. It was like this message came, this telepathic knowing. It said, Just hug him. When I went to live, I reached out and hugged him at one o'clock. His mom asked me to stay the night, and I said, No, I've got a hotel down. The guy that brought me there, he's reading a book sitting in the back room. He stayed with me. And 1: 00 in the morning, his mom calls me and says he's eating his second plate.

This was the next morning?

That night at one o'clock, I left at 1: 00, I left. At 1: 30, his mom called me and said he's eating two plates of food.

Thirty minutes later?

Yeah.

What's this kid's name?

Well, to be respectful of the family, I'd rotate that off camera, right? But his first name is Brandon.

Are you still in touch with him?

Yeah. He was at my house. I just spent last Memorial Day, Jim from the CIA the Deputy Director called me. Brandon is now 21 or 2 years old, and he's going off to exchange to go overseas. He'd never been away from home, right? And they wanted me to be with him before he left. They told me, We know you're good for him to be around him. But let me tell you another one. Now he's 13. When he turns 13, he's having a bar mitzvah. First time I've ever been in in a Jewish celebration. It was the most amazing thing. This child has given a speech in this big church in New York City on 48th of Madison. We're in a basement, and everybody does anybody from the deputy Director to the Director of Operations, the CIA, and all in between were there. A whole lot of important, 200 people at least. My son Ryan, and they're out dancing on the floor. And I'm thinking back, all these people at home that's given me such a hard time. If I could only tell them what I'm experiencing right now with my family. This is just a moment for me.

Suddenly, panic happened. The music quit, and the crowd come off the dance floor, and I'm still sitting at my table with one other person. Everybody's gone out dancing. My wife is sitting at the table behind me. She had gotten up, and she's with Debbie, Jim's wife. Very powerful people. The crowd got around me so much they're standing over me, and I feel a person grab me on the shoulders and pulled me through the crowd and said, You got to help them. You got to help them. At their table, this elderly man had passed out bored and was totally pale white. He was ghost white. All these people are trying to revive him, trying to wake him up, couldn't do anything. He dragged me through the crowd to him and said, You got to save him. I put a hand on each shoulder, and when I did, he went... And he stood up, sat up, and a whole room saw it. You can imagine what that did. And that was way back in 2014. And it has only gotten I'm more involved with government from there as senior service members.

Who was that man? Who was- The man that you arrived?

I knew who he was. He was the father-in-law of one of the people, the guy that actually took me to DC the first time to help that little boy. We were all invited to the party, to his bar mitzvah. It was his brother-in-law that whatever happened to him, he was totally unconscious there. And so that set me on a path that I had no clue I'd be going down. People Suddenly, I've got hundreds saying, I'm sick, can you help me? And that's been the hardest thing for me to try to help people because I never intended it to be that way. And I don't know that I can do anything. In fact, I don't do anything. It's something greater than I. I think it's when I think of the divine world, it just comes. But there's a whole lot in my book about different ones that have experienced this, from cancer's gone to... This is a long list of people that have had blessings from this.

Could you introduce me to one that would be willing to be on the show?

I will try.

How many people have you saved?

I don't know that I've saved anybody. I don't like to think like that.

How many people have you been a part of this?

Dozens. Dozens of people. Every day. Every day, I can show you. Now, I just pray for them. If you know somebody that's sick, they might send me a photo of them now. And I just take the photo out and I hold it up to the heavens and I ask the angels, God, I never pray an angel. I pray to God. And I ask for this help for this person, and I get these letters back. I'm a doctor, don't know. It goes for dogs. I had two last month dogs. One was 16 years old in total kidney failure. The doctors are like, We don't know what happened. They're putting it in their journals trying to figure out what happened. He sees back completely functional kidneys and normal.

Are there people out there talking about this? Yeah.

I've been private, Sean. I haven't shared this. In fact, I hate sharing this publicly because it's going to cause a whole lot more people to come. But it's still part of the story that tells the phenomenon with me, the experience with it. This is why I know it's from the divine world. It's not something with teeth and a ray gun coming here to get us. It's connected to our thoughts. It'll appear a lot when I ask it and in front of me and you and others, not every time, but pretty much on the time. Sometimes 50, 70 orbs will appear. Sometimes it's a little fire that appear right beside me like a candle. I've seen it. I look over and, oh, my God, it's right there, and then it'll shoot off over my head. And a lot of people have seen this. Rock stars, very big rock stars. Without saying their names, have been to my house and have witnessed this up close and personal. Senior service members of the DIA, SES-19, into my house with their families and have experienced it a lot. It's a lot of people that have witnessed it and seen it still to this day.

How did the government get more involved?

Well, they wanted to study it, right? They wanted to see this for themselves because this is the most elusive thing in the to walk out and look up the heavens and ask something to come, and all of a sudden, hear these lights pop on and they come flying by you. So there's a lot of them wanting to see that and study it.

And you allow them to do that?

Yeah. I allow anybody that is... I couldn't allow just anybody because I'd be overrun with people. But at my personal house, I've had the heads of the people from NASA, people from the DIA, the DOD, the CIA. And I had three from Washington there last week, three guys, diplomats that have experienced it with me. I was in Washington for 15 days last month, and I filmed Orbs in a daytime and at night with a lot of important people, really important. And government and stuff. Nsa.

Can you name any of these people by name?

I don't have permission, but Jim Simeban, everybody would research him. He's in my book. John Alexander, John was with me, 2015. In fact, the first chapter of my book, How I Met John, was about the Pope. I'm out by the burning tree, and this lady from Wake Forest University, a scientist, was doing this investigation of this tree. And she has a spirit box, she called it. I've never heard of such a thing. It makes this noise. And so supposedly, spirits come through and talk. Well, she hands it to me. I'm leaning against the tree. And my wife and my niece and her and her assistant were there looking at me from about 10 feet away. And suddenly this voice comes through that box and said, Chris, the Pope's in danger. You must help. And it kept saying that, and it kept saying that. We recorded all this. We recorded 350 audio clips, 350, and multiple voices is coming this thing, and they were saying my name. Call me by name. And so I sent that message to the very guy that was involved with the child in the beginning. It was my contact, right? And He's like, Oh, my, you need to be here tomorrow, next day.

And so in a couple of days, I was at his house. When I walked in the door, there was John Alexander. That's when I met him. Immediately, we took a tour of Philadelphia, the Congress Hall. John got me into remote viewing. I started reliving this thing, and I began to give details about this There were a couple of terrorists that wanted to explode a bomb on Congress Hall when the Pope was there. They got secret service involved, and they intercepted an maels and calls and found this kid and arrested him. Sure did. They shut the whole Ben Franklin Bridge down where people would come across. But that's just another notch. That was the first chapter of my book about the Pope. And I've been investigated by them, by the Vatican.

You've been investigated by the Vatican? Yeah. How did that go?

Well, I was very sick at that time, 2017, with Crohn's, I'm not Crohn's, but rheumatoid. It came, it come on me. And I was on all this chemotherapy and these biologics. And so my professor friend, works with the Vatican, got permission to go in the Vatican Archives. Well, my friend from NASA that I was working with from the NRO wanted to be a part, so he was allowed to go with her. Three of them went to the archives. When they were there, they were texting me and sending me pictures of angels coming out of orbs that are painted on the wall in the Vatican and a message from the Pope that he said, We know that there are angels and that they don't mean harm. But if you get too close to them, don't let them get too close because they're energy can cause damage to your body. In fact, we know that St. Francis of Assisi had an orb get too close to him and zapped him, and he died two years later from its wounds. And she said, We know for sure in today's lenses, it was rheumatoid arthritis, the same thing you got.

So there's a lot of... I've got all the photos and stuff of that you can see. They had a ceremony in my honor. They put my picture in the Pope's picture at the entrance of the Vatican Archive. They placed my picture between the books of Galileo and Copernicus in the archives to be there forever. So there's a whole lot that's going on from every angle throughout those. Very fair.

Man, this is fascinating stuff. Yeah.

So now you know.

Why do you think you are the one?

I've been asked that a million times, and I don't like to think I'm the one or any of that. I'm just a simple guy that had a miraculous experience that continues to this day.

With all the With all the government contact and studying and the Vatican, had anybody ever given you insight as to whether or not there are more human beings that have had similar experiences to you?

Yeah, and they all relate them back to biblical times. As far as anybody now, I haven't heard, but they probably are. But they always use St. Francis or these different people throughout the Bible that had these experiences with the Orbs. And the reason NASA wanted to go, to be a part of that, getting into the archives, they wanted to study levitating saints, how come it as a person can take off and fly to the village next door. It really happens. People levitate. So there's more to this world than we got blinders on. We're blinded. But we're awakening now.

Yeah. I personally believe that we are the ones that put the limitations on ourselves. Exactly. Everything may be It's possible.

But a lot of those writings that got into this more detailed early on were deemed dangerous knowledge, so it was removed from us understanding all of this stuff. That was Priestley stuff.

Where do you think you were for the hours that you disappeared during the incident in 2007?

Well, I can tell you I had no clue until 2008, when Mufon came and did the Discovery show. They actually sent a guy from a Harvard-trained psychiatrist that does hypnosis. And he hypnotized me first to say They were removing this block. And then we're going to come back next week and find out what happened. So he did the first one, and immediately I could think about it and not pass out or have a excruciating headache. So what he did work. And then my wife and kids started for the next... It was about two weeks before they came. They were startled because when I'd go to bed, which always went pretty early. They'd be up till late. I'd be yelling out in my sleep and screaming and talking, and they were in there filming me with cell phones and iPads while I'm doing this, saying stuff, weird stuff, like seeing beings and omars and all kinds of weird stuff. So eventually, I began to remember some of what happened, not all, but what I can tell you, the full hour while I was gone was a virtual tour. I was inside a bubble, something that was solid that I could stand on, but I couldn't see the walls, but I could touch them.

But I could see everything in every direction. There were always three figures behind me that were shadowy, and they were narrating what I was seeing. And I saw North America from way up high. I saw the whole United States. And then I was taken to Egypt, and I saw the pyramids. And this Hathor's temple, I saw that, the Spanx facing to the east. And then the lady comes back. The following year, after all this, this was in 2013, is when I really got that message from her because that's when I was asked by the Pentagon, by two Air Force generals to put it in writing what she told me. And I did. And this was on a request from NASA, a friend at So he come and got it and hand delivered it to these generals. And she told me that... She said that when the star of Regulus, she called it a Red When you look at it, it looks blue. But she said, when Regulus is red on the horizon in front of the gaze of the spin before daylight, so in other words, when it's sitting right on top of the horizon before the sun comes up, at that moment would mark a change in humanity's knowledge.

And she showed me other things. War, us bombing Iran, us bombing Syria. And in them days, in None of that had happened. So I put all that on this piece of paper. And now I've had so many write me back, Oh, my God, you see they just bombed Iran or Iran just bombed us. You were right the whole time. And I did that in 2012. And so what they did was I gave them the date of 2026 because they took that celestial event and ran it through these machines that show So that exact alignment will happen in 2026 at Easter.

What will happen?

The star will... The alignment she told me about, that the star of Regulus would be on the horizon in front of the Sphynx At that moment, there would be a new knowledge. Well, I had no idea if this was even possible. But these astronomers run it through the machines and it comes out that that star is going to come up on the horizon in Easter of '26. And from that point forward, they started remote viewing the state. Government did. And now you hear it all over TV. '26, that's the big day. 2027, that year, something's going to happen. Armageddon, you hear it all over. You hear it on TV. If you study, I've heard it even... Well, I won't say names, but- Please do. Well, you know Lou Alizando, right? Lou has mentioned that date. A lot of people have.

Easter of 2026.

The year of 2026. I gave him a specific time. And it was with Robert Grant that I told him about this alignment and all, and he's like, Oh, my God. He's been looking for this ruby, this little ruby you have to find and place it between the Pauls and Sphinks to make this event that he knows it's going to happen in 2026. I said, Robert is going to happen in 2026. I said, Robert, it's not a ruby. It's the star of regular. He looks at me, he's like, Oh, my God, that's the King Stone. So What's going to happen? I don't know. But I think it's possible that's the return of...

Christ. Yeah.

Or the lady and the whole heavenly host living with us, Jesus. That's the first time I've ever said that in my life publicly. You're the first. A million people has asked me this. I think it's entirely possible because she told me. She told me that when the suffering of a man becomes too great that they're going to stop it and they're going to snuff out the darkness. That's why the military and the government all want to know about this because they know it's real. I know this lady has been seen a million times. And when she comes, she's always warning of some big catastrophe. In the Native American world, they call her the White Buffalo Calf Lady. And she would come warning about some tribe coming to kill everybody or some big event. It's in every culture that way. But I wish I knew more.

What else do you know?

I think we're living in the worst possible times right now that if we don't make some changes, there's going to be some major disasters about to happen. And it's manmade. It's not soul of flair. It's not any of that. It's a dark force because she told me... I'll tell you what she told me. This is what I put in writing part of it. She said, There are people in power Power. I put this in right in 2012. She said, There are people in power. And I'm not going to say where she focused my thoughts on that, but their script in the Book of Revelation to bring about Armageddon and the end of the world. They're doing it intentionally, and that's what she told me. And that's the very thing, the main meat of the whole message I sent to these generals. So it makes sense, right?

Who is they?

I don't know who they are. I think they're Satan. I think they're people that worship the dark force. That don't care for humanity and human life. In fact, they're the total opposite of worship the devil. I don't know if there is a devil. I think it's a very dark force that is living full of dark entities that feed on you parasitically. It would be non-physical. It These they shapesheft. They take your mind over. They make you do crazy things. They deceive you, make you kill somebody, go crazy. Where the angelic world are the physical beings. They can come in here and light these beings are made of light. The dark force is a parasitic race. And whoever is aligned with that is, according to the mother, the lady, is scripted in the Book of Revelation. They don't want it to happen.

Why did they want it to happen?

I think it's the dark force. I think that they want us to stuff out God. They don't want us to have God in their heart. Why do you think they did evolution? That's the biggest dumbest thing I ever heard in my life, that every living thing comes from a mud puddle, and it can't It's just not possible. It's a laugh. It's a joke.

You know what I find interesting is from the very beginning when you saw the being that your family, and initially you, if I remember correctly, thought was just a medication, you had some type of an intuition from the very get-to-go that this was a guardian angel. Yeah. Of some type. It has progressed.

I knew I had one when I was 10. I just knew it. I knew something saved me because the doctor's like, You shouldn't have lived through this. If I showed you the hole in my back and the lid in front of me right here, you'd be like, How did this happen? Is that close to my spinal column? I'm leaning over a bit. Is that close to the back of my head? And then directly in line with my heart. And I knew the doctor told me, You're the luckiest guy in the world. All I could think then was it wasn't luck. It was something protecting me. In fact, in my regression, 2008, if you heard the regression, they said, We were with you when you were 10 years old, and we'll be with you right on.

You know what else I find interesting? You are the only one To my knowledge, that I've spoken to on this subject, on the UFO subject that believes in Jesus Christ.

I do wholeheartedly. More today than I ever did.

That openly talks about it.

More today than I ever. And that's been a problem of censorship and put me on the back burner and keeping me at bay publicly. It really has.

I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised when that- But I had never told this message about what we just talked about until now, because now I think it's the time to tell it.

Twelve years, 13 years, I've kept it secret. Only my family knew.

What do you think that day is going to look like? If you thought you had to...

It says in Michael, in that glorious and beautiful day, he's coming back to save us all. Do you look forward to that day? Absolutely.

Do you have any fear about that day?

I fear my children and these crazy people that just can't get a hold of whatever they're doing. I'm almost 63 years old. I've been through 11 or 12 presidents. People my age, and your age, but especially my age, everything's happening now is completely not normal. We all see writing on the wall. We all see the players, some of these players. There's a lot behind the scene that we especially... They're hidden, but we all see something ain't right. And there's got to be a cleansing. And the only thing that can change people is God. And the phenomenon can change you inside. But there ain't going to be no change of humanity without having some spiritual thing come in and changes from the inside out. And that's what's coming. And there's nothing nobody can do about it. They can squil and squirm and try to make it look negative and ugly all they want, but it's not going to stop what's coming, according to her. And in the Book of Revelation, in the very last chapter, it says, when the armies surround Israel on all four sides, that he's coming back to fight, to battle, and rid the world of evil.

And then there'll be a time of peace, thousand years. That's what the lady told me. Same thing. I said a lot.

Thank you for sharing that.

A whole lot. Eighteen years, I've never told this. Over the 17 and a half years.

How does it feel to get it out? Right.

I'll get a lot of blowback from this, I promise. I just hope the world that has been told it's the devil can wake the heck up and see that a little bit of heaven's Come in here to help us.

Would you be willing to come back on this show?

I would love to, yes, sir. I'd be honored.

I could go deeper, but I think this is a good part to end this interview. But with that being said, I would love to get you back because I have a lot more questions, but I know it's been a rough day.

Just say the word and I'll be here.

Thank you, Chris.

I promise.

There's been a lot of speculation on if UFOs are strictly some type of spiritual entity or if they are nuts and bolts or if it's both?

There's a possibility It hurts both, but I haven't seen the other side. A whole all these years experience has been with the phenomenon, I call it, is a spiritual thing. It's like magic. They appear out of nowhere. In fact, Tim Birchet made a quote, and I saved it. They believe that the interdimensional world will the angels. And so if there might be some star cruiser coming from some planet, some far away and stopping over to resupply and get some gas or something, right? But I can tell you there's not a reason in this world an alien would come down to the river where I'm crying out, God help me. Why would he even care? Why would he want to help me? Why would he help all these other people, even animals? Because they have compassion for us and love.

I know I already asked this, but I do want to ask it again, and I just want to hear what you personally think. I mean, that's 7 to '24, we're talking almost 17 years now. Why you? What is it that you believe that God saw in you in that moment of time? Lots of people look up.

I think that the phenomenon or God or whoever knew that I'm the person that would never back down. Never, ever. Look at Paul in the Bible. Look at all the fossils, every one of them. They knew what they knew, and they went to death for it. They were boiled in oil and tortured and crucified and hung upside and dismembered because they knew without a doubt. Paul, on the road to Damascus, it says, In a flash of light flashed around him and blinded him. It was an orb. The ball of light. And that's exactly what comes out of the sky and interacts or comes into my house or around us. It's just the light, and it answers to prayer.

How do you pray?

I pray to the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit, the Holy Trinity.

How? Do you ask? Do you just talk to it? Is it ceremonial?

No, it's a thought. I don't have to say a word. I can think it, and they come. They're connected to our thoughts 100 %. Yours, too. They know your thoughts. They know all of us. In fact, I believe everybody has a Guardian Angel. It's probably at least two. And I've been quoted saying there's 15 around me at all times. My kids are like, How do you know that, dad? Because I constantly see there's about 15 of them that will appear, and sometimes they do it all at once. So I think you have them. All you got to do I just acknowledge it.

I know I have them.

You do.

I've talked about it several times on this show and given very, very detailed examples. And the next time I'll share those with you.

I want to hear that. I really do.

Well, Chris. What a man. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for what you're doing, and thank you for being here, and God bless you, brother.

I appreciate you, Sean, so much.

I appreciate you, too. We'll see you soon.

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