This Real Time episode mixes a sharp opening monologue on the Nvidia chief executive scandal with an interview with Arkansas governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who defends her education record and her loyalty to President Trump. She argues that her policies are grounded in personal faith and principles, and she pushes back on criticism of her views on elections and religion.
A panel of journalists and commentators then discusses grounded flights, the national security questions raised by the chip scandal, and how misinformation spreads on social media. Listeners will hear competing arguments on media bias, socialism and the role of context in news, with the host and guests often disagreeing sharply.
In this episode Bill Maher, Aaron Parnas, Dasha Burns, Sarah Huckabee Sanders
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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night series, Real Time with Bill Maher.
Start the clock.
All right, how you doing down there? Hi. All right, thank you so much. All right. Oh, thank you. Okay. Well, easy now. All right, calm down. Calm down. People, calm down, because I'm— You may not get home. No, have you heard?
We lecture. This is exciting. We actually breaking news, because it's Friday. Did you see? They grounded all the planes in America. All the planes. So hope you're staying for the weekend, if you're going to attend. They say it's nothing nefarious. I don't believe them. I mean, this could be a hack from China. Could be a hack from Iran. Could be a hack from AI itself. Could be Selma Blair. We just don't know. But I'm on the skeptical side of this. But, you know, it's funny.
All the juicy stuff happens right at the end of the season. Tomorrow, next week is our last show of the season. I'm going to be a little sadder than that about it. Pathetic. Ooh. All right. Well, anyway. But, yeah, we have this scandal going on that just— it really dwarfs all the other scandals we've ever had with the Trump administration. I'm sure you're seeing all the news. Jensen Huang, he is the CEO of Nvidia, he's been having an affair with someone who is a likely spy for communist China.
It's not confirmed, but one big red flag was she had an actual big red flag. It's— it's all very confusing. His name is Wong. Her name is Wrong. The whole thing is Wong. I mean, well, there's— it made for some awkward moments during sex.
Like when he said, "Who's your daddy?" And she said, "Ain't it you?" No, I kid. No. It's just the name thing is a coincidence. It could happen to anybody. Elon Omar said, "Tell me about it. I accidentally married my brother." I mean, you know. But— but now Jensen Huang has resigned because it came out that he was also having an affair with an executive at his company, a white woman named Kimberly Powell, because who wants Chinese every night?
And— and now Wong's wife is wounded. She's— she's wong. She's pissed. She was wonged. She's wounded. She's— and she was like, "One woman was bad enough." When she heard about this other woman, all the black leather jackets out on the front lawn. And then— and then a day later, we find out there's a third mistress.
You thought his chips were in everything. Wow. So now— now the first mistress, the Chinese spy lady, she's pissed because she said she had a strict policy of no substitutions. Terrible. These are terrible. But— but, you know, funny, funny, funny. But you realize how important this is, because AI has been what is propping up our economy.
And it is this guy's chips that have been propping up AI. So naturally, Trump's response is, "Nothing to see." Nothing to see here. I mean, he knew. Trump— Trump was told. He knew for a long time that this guy was having an affair. He just said, "Well, I assumed he was an honorable man and just assumed it was a porn star." And he's— he is not the only one defending Wong.
Musk— Elon Musk has been defending him and says they might work together. He was going to hire him. And I think that could be a good pairing. One wants to explore Mars and one wants to explore Uranus. I think— but I tell you, these Chinese are not fucking around with this spy stuff, really. I mean, The New York Times had a big exposé about it yesterday. And, I mean, this program of spy— we saw it out here.
Eric Swalwell was with Fangfang? Okay. It's a vast program. They will go after anybody in politics and media. I— I was at— no, I'm a little paranoid. I was at Panda Express the other night. And— and my fortune cookie just said, "Hi, Bill." But listen, I got to give Trump credit for one thing, okay?
I talked to him twice when I was at the White House. Of course, that ended badly both times. But about deportation being too tough. Okay. He went on 60 Minutes last week. Did you see that? And he said the deportation tactics were too tough. He said, "You know, when you go into a hotel and there's a woman there, a maid, a cleaner, a waitress, and all of a sudden she's taken out, it's a tough thing." He meant for the hotel. But still, I think it's progress. Progress.
But— but he's back to being himself, because after the election, he was like, "Congratulations, Democrats." Now he's back to, "No, it was rigged." Election was rigged. He is especially suspicious of the blue states. You know, like Texas and Mississippi. Yes. Mississippi has the first black senator since Reconstruction, and Democrats have— Democrats now have 55 seats in the Senate.
Looks like they're also going to get Alaska. They're still counting up there, but it looks good for the Democrats. And some people are calling Alaska the California of the North. I think— let's not get too excited. We're still quite different. I mean, in Alaska, women's faces look frozen because they are. All right. We got a great show. We have Aaron Parnas and Dasha Burns. But first up, she's the 47th governor of Arkansas. His new book is called Unapologetic Clarity and Conviction in a World Gone Crazy.
Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Hey, how are you, Sarah?
Hi.
Great to meet you.
Nice to see you.
Thank you. Okay. Welcome aboard. I hear this is not your first time at our studio, that you were here as a child.
I was.
Really? With your father? Is when he was a guest on the show?
Yeah. And as I'm sitting here listening to your monologue, knowing that my 14-year-old daughter is here, I'm wondering about both of our parenting decisions.
I'm fair. I'm fair. I gave him credit tonight for— see, that's what he always hates about me. You don't give me credit.
He actually really likes you.
Oh, I like— we have a great time in person.
Yeah.
And then the heartaches begin. But okay. I got to do my job. But look, you did very well in the blue wave. You won the governorship again of Arkansas by 15 points. Look at that. People are very nice here. So why do you think you did so well in a year that was so bad for your party?
Obviously, because people knew I was coming on your show.
Well, that will help.
Otherwise, it could have been really awkward if I had to sit here a week later. But in reality, I think there are a few things. One, we focused on issues over the last four years of things that really impacted the day-to-day life of the people that we were elected to serve. I made no secret coming in that education was going to be a top priority. And we have legitimately transformed education in the state of Arkansas, going from being continually ranked at the very bottom and last to leading the nation in terms of teacher pay, largest investment in public education, at the same time opening up universal school choice for every single student, deploying literacy coaches.
We have made a massive cultural shift, and families are feeling the impact of that when they're at their homes.
And you're not the only southern state that did that. The states that have done well lately in education are the ones where the teachers' union is less powerful. Is that part of the.
It certainly helps. It also helped that we had no place to go but up. And so we made significant progress on that front. But you have seen a lot of the southern Republican states start to focus on education, make that a big priority. And I think for a long time it was a mistake that conservatives were allowing the left to own that issue. And we've taken it back, made real changes, and we're seeing significant progress.
Last year alone, Arkansas student test scores went up 20% in every single grade for every single subject.
And teacher pay, you know, you said. Everybody, the kids all get breakfast now.
We have— we're one of the only states in the South that opens and has free breakfast for every single student in public school. We know that if a kid is starting out hungry— and that was a big bipartisan effort. That was Republicans and Democrats working together. You know that if a kid is sitting in a classroom hungry, there's no way they're learning math and science and reading. And so it's made a big difference and a big help and boost to our kids.
But how come it's only socialism when they do it? You know, because, I mean, I agree. I've always agreed. I always thought that was the case.
There's a big difference between giving everything away for free and helping kids start out on the right foot. I don't know that I would say those are the same thing.
No, but I've read up about your policies and, you know, what I would call smart, workable, common-sense policies, which seems to be so adherent with your— I can see the look in your eye. You know what I'm going to say.
I have a feeling I knew it.
Yeah. With your devotion to Trump, because, like, and again, I think I'm very fair to him. You know, I give him credit where, like, he did have some ideas about fixing things that needed to— a lot of stuff needed fixing. But smart, workable policies isn't really where most of it went. You know, closing the border, everybody liked that.
Yeah. And it needed to happen.
And it needed to happen. But we didn't need to shoot people in their cars. I said that to him when I was in it. I said, "Why?"
And I think he's— and you made that point. He's even acknowledged within the last week that the policies went too far and we have to go back to a more targeted, specific approach on violent, criminal, illegals. And that's what he plans to do in these next two years.
Well, it's a little late, but okay. I mean, better later.
It's never too late. Never too late to do the right thing.
Okay. But, you know, like, I mean, Medicaid, you increased that. He cut it. You know, it seems like you are policy-wise, you diverge from him, but you will never say a bad word or leave any daylight between you and what he does, which is very often different than what you do as governor.
Well, I think in many cases, our policies are aligned. But even my own dad, who I worked for, I support. I think he's one of the greatest people I've.
Now ambassador, is real?
He is. And I think he is so uniquely qualified for that position and doing an amazing job. But even my own dad, I disagree with. I've learned a lot from each of those individuals, and they've both given me opportunity. I wouldn't be sitting in this seat on your show if the president hadn't taken a chance on me and had the confidence in me to stand up in front of the American people and deliver his message and his vision. In that job, no one had elected me to anything. I wasn't there to share my own opinions or to share my personal beliefs.
I was there to communicate on behalf of the president.
Right. And I had your successor here recently.
Yeah.
And that was exactly her answer.
Yeah.
"He took a chance on me, and so I go along with everything he does."
That's not exactly what I think she said or I said, but.
Well, it kind of is like loyalty to a person as opposed to principles. To me, I think that's where we diverge a little.
I don't think that's fair, because who I am at my core and what drives me every day are my own personal principles. That's what drives and influences not just my policy, but everything that I do. I'm a person of deep faith. That's the main premise of the book that I wrote. It's unapologetic in who I am and what I believe.
Well.
That doesn't mean I have a blind loyalty, but I certainly support and appreciate a president who gave me an opportunity and who I think is doing a good job, who is doing an infinitely better job than Joe Biden, who I think was terrible for our country. And I think he's done a much better job than Hillary Clinton would have done if she had won. I wanted to see somebody who would take on big institutions, who would take fights on that nobody else was willing to do. Donald Trump has done that.
Does that mean I agree with everything? No. Does that mean I think he does everything right? No. Neither do I.
Okay.
We're all human. We're all going to mess things up. But I think he loves our country and wants to see it succeed and is willing to fight to deliver on that. Is it always going to be perfect? No, but I still am going to continue to support somebody who is willing to.
Well, I'll give you my litmus test for the next election, really, because I had the vice president here, and I said, "You know what? If the Democrats keep going down the road of communism, not socialism, a lot of this is communism. I know what it is. I went to college."
If only they were still teaching that in colleges now.
Yeah, exactly. What it is.
Yeah.
And Jew-hating, then my vote's in play. When my vote is not in play is if Republicans continue down the road of not conceding elections. And that's where, you know, that's where you can never get the president on your side or my side on this. He just will not concede, even the one we know he lost in 2020, right?
Do you feel that way when the Democrats don't concede either? Because I remember that in 2016 being the case. I don't disagree that.
Oh, God.
Once it's over, it's over.
Oh, God. I'm having flashbacks to when you were the press secretary now. It wasn't on the same level. It really wasn't. You think it's the same thing?
I'm not saying it's the same, but it seems like you only care if it's when he does it.
I care when anybody does it, but it's a false equivalency. And he still hasn't conceded the 2020 election, which he lost, right?
I mean, he did not assume that office. I will give you that. So. You know what?
And this is where we are, folks. This is where we are.
You know the best way to be here.
All right. We'll move on.
Yeah.
One last question. This is from your book. You say, "My faith doesn't just influence me. It defines me." My new book is about how our identity in Christ and Christ alone is the only firm foundation for our future. Now, you know that I don't share this. I'm an atheist, but I certainly think it's everybody's right to believe what they want to believe. My question is, what if we have a senator coming in, El Sayegh? I was not a big supporter, but we'll see how he does. But what if he said, "My faith doesn't influence me. It doesn't just influence me. It defines me." My new book is about how our identity in Muhammad and Allah alone is the only firm foundation for our future.
Would that be just as good? Because.
Not to me personally, no, because I am a believer that there is only one God and that He sent His Son to die on the cross to save us from our sins. I believe that we are all sinners, that we live in a fallen, broken world. And the only way to have a lasting, fulfilling peace is in a relationship with Jesus Christ and believing in our Creator. He's certainly entitled to His opinion, but I don't have to agree with it.
No, but in government.
Yeah.
I mean, it worries me when somebody says that my foundation is this, because I feel like the foundation should be the Constitution, and then the personal opinions, fine, whatever you want to believe.
Well, I think you need to have core conviction, because when it comes to policy, you're going to hear Republicans are always going to say, "I want lower taxes, less regulation. We should do X, Y, and Z." But who are they at their core? When decisions come to their desk that they haven't planned for, that aren't a written policy, don't you want to know what they believe, why they believe it, what drives them, what wakes them up in the morning, what motivates them and gives their life purpose? For me, it's knowing that I have a Creator who has given my life that purpose.
I think that somebody who has a different belief system certainly entitled to it, but that's going to drive the decisions they make. That's going to influence the decisions they make. And that's an ideology that I disagree with.
Okay.
That's the difference.
Well, they're going to come after you to run for president now that you've done so well running.
I'm just glad I still have a job this week after the red wave did not quite go as hoped in the rest of the country.
Okay. Well, I hope you come back when they make you the president, because.
Thank you. I appreciate you having me.
Thank you, Sarah.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, everybody. All right. Let's greet our panelists. Okay. Hey.
Hey.
How are you guys doing? He is an independent journalist, political commentator, and host of the Parnass Perspective podcast. Aaron Parnass is with us. Aaron, how are you doing?
Good. How are you?
And she's the author of Political Playbook, host of The Conversation with Dasha Burns and host of C-SPAN's Cease Fire. Dasha Burns. Okay.
How are you doing?
So, as I said before, it's kind of exciting when we go on the air in this breaking news. I mean, the breaking news, everybody says breaking news. Everything is breaking news.
Fridays are dangerous in the Trump administration. There's always breaking news.
Always breaking news. Well, that even precedes Trump. Everybody wanted to say breaking news because people turn on the TV, "Oh, my God, what's going on?" It's not usually breaking news. This is breaking news as far as it's Friday, Friday the 13th.
Oh.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, no.
Friday the 13th. It's a little after 4:00 here in the West Coast, 7:00 in the East Coast, so maybe things have changed. But as of just a couple of minutes ago, Secretary of Mark Wayne Mullen, he's our DHS secretary, said there was no indication when talking about the planes falling, being grounded. All the planes grounded.
Not falling yet.
Not falling yet. There was no indication as of yet that this was a nefarious attack against us. Well, and there's no indication Mark Wayne Mullen knows what the fuck he's doing.
Yeah.
I mean, or belongs in that job. But okay. But I mean, I just want to throw this out there. Maybe it's nothing, but we did lose our email yesterday. Everybody's email went down. The freezers in Europe last week, somebody hacked into the freezers in the supermarkets. Why the freezers are on the internet, we can talk about that too. I don't know. It just looks to me, I'm just going to say this without knowing anything.
I'm pulling it out of my ass, but I just think we're being hacked. I do.
I am not normally a tinfoil hat girly, but today I said to my husband, like, "Why haven't we packed the bug-out bag, honey? We should have done that." In all seriousness, though, this is also an indication, particularly with the FAA, that policy has impact beyond politics. Listen, the DOGE cuts gutted a bunch of federal agencies, including the FAA.
Right.
Which was already having a worker shortage. We've seen previous airline disasters over the course of this year. That has an impact. Meanwhile, Sean Duffy, the transportation secretary, is under fire for going out and filming a reality TV show while the FAA has been falling apart.
Right.
I think it's telling that in the first several hours of this national groundstomp, you don't have the president on air. You don't have Sean Duffy on air. You have Mark Wayne Mullen on air, who is telling reporters that it's SI and not AI. That's what he was telling reporters outside of the White House.
SI? You mean superintelligence?
That's correct.
As opposed to.
Yeah. A reporter tried to ask him.
Because that's what's important. According to Trump, he said he's very we will not be calling this artificial intelligence.
Naming is important to him, Bill.
It's very important. Oh, I know what's important to him. Okay. But I mean, what's next? OnlyFans? I mean, I'm very concerned.
Why are you so concerned about OnlyFans?
I'm not concerned. I wouldn't know how to get on OnlyFans. But also, I noticed Scott Bessent, Treasury Secretary, he's now living on a military base. Joining on a military base, Stephen Miller, Marco Rubio, before that, Kristi Noem, Pam Bondi. I'm just saying, Trump thinks he won this war with Iran. Yeah, by his calculation. They're retaliating, perhaps, the way they want to retaliate.
Why are all these people having to live on a military base? Why are we grounding our planes? Why are the supermarkets in Europe losing their frozen goods? You know, I just think you win one way, but you lose another way. And this is something America has not learned from so many guerrilla wars. They don't fight back the way we would like them to fight back. We didn't when we fought the British to get our independence. We fought a guerrilla war. This is, I think, their guerrilla war.
Yeah, and there's a reason why right now, service members in the Middle East are being told they can't come home for the holidays on the George H.W. Bush aircraft carrier, right? There's a reason why there are anti-aircraft military-grade weapons right outside of Mar-a-Lago as Donald Trump golfs. Obviously, he's scared. Obviously, Iran, the military is not as decimated as he claims. And we have not won this war because the war is continuing, whether in the Middle East or, I don't know, here.
Okay. So let me ask about the priorities we have with this scandal going on with Nvidia. Because America, I love you, America. You make me laugh. I mean, three days ago, the story is we found out that the guy who makes 90 percent of the chips that go into AI is having this affair. Okay. And the whole reason we were told that we can't regulate AI is because we have to beat the Chinese. We would, but we have to beat China. But the guy who's selling the chips and making the chips is fucking a Chinese spy.
And still, everybody is like, "Yeah, but he's too important. We got to keep him there." And then this week we found out, "Oh, wait, he's fucking somebody at the office?"
That's it.
Come on. Is this not crazy?
This is such a 2026 story. You have part spy thriller, part sex scandal, national security, AI arms race, and Donald Trump mixed up into all of this. The thing with Trump here, though, is he loves this guy. He called him earlier this week and told him, "Do not step down. Don't let them get you. Stay in this role." But the question that I have is, you know, who knew what when? We know from reporting that he was warned about this, that Huang might be sleeping with a potential Chinese spy in 2025 in the fall and again in May of 2026.
Guys, I don't know that much about the bro code, but I feel like part of it is probably if you find out that your friend might be sleeping with a Chinese asset, you might be like, "Hey, dude, you should watch out for that one," right?
It's not how he operates.
In all seriousness, though, in all seriousness, the question for the administration is exactly what you mentioned, Bill, which is, did this person, did Jensen Huang get special treatment in this situation? Were national security interests ignored? Because he has power, he has political access, and he's central to Trump's AI strategy.
I'm sorry, but in another era, this would be so much worse than other second-term scandals like Iran-Contra, Watergate. I mean, she was smuggling the chips that we say by law can't go to China through Singapore. Am I wrong about that? That's what happened. I mean, this person is smuggling the chips through a third party. It's like when you, you know, a teenager gets a hobo to buy you beer and you give him the money. This is not, I mean, why is.
Sarah knows about that.
Yeah, totally. Right up my alley.
Why is no one mentioning, I'm sorry, but the T word?
Treason?
Yeah. I mean, is it not? I'm not trying to get the guy.
Well, you know who would mention it? Trump would mention the T word if the president was Barack Obama and not Donald Trump.
Totally.
Right? Imagine that Truth Social post.
Of course.
It would be lengthier than 1,200 words. I'll tell you that.
I mean, if you.
It's also, I have to say.
1,300.
Oh, sorry.
Incredible. I'm also surprised that of all the AI tech CEOs, you think about Mark Zuckerberg, you think about Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, those guys I would expect to have a sex scandal in their closet. Jensen Huang is not, if I'm going out with a source to get a drink, like Jensen Huang is not the guy that I think.
I disagree, because I'll tell you why. This is a country that does not trust bachelors in office. Talarico just got elected, one of the rarer abbots, very rare a bachelor gets elected. We have made a decision in this country. You cannot be trusted in politics unless you are married. They have it completely backwards. It's the married people who cannot be trusted. Married men cannot be trusted. No matter how much power, there is nothing more vulnerable in the world than a master of the universe who's not getting any adoration at home.
Because, you know, you're married for 40 years. The wife is not going to give that up.
But this is also why when I've been on the campaign trail, there is overwhelming bipartisan skepticism and frustration that a small amount of very wealthy, very powerful men have control over technology that is impacting our lives, potentially leading to our extinction. And these are fallible individuals, as we clearly see here, that are entrusted with this immense amount of power.
But I'm telling you, you can be the smartest person in the world, because I've known guys like this, masters of the universe types. And if you are not getting this very fundamental human thing that preceded technology, you are just, you're such easy pickings.
A woman would never give up her company for a little ass.
No.
That's true.
No, I agree. Yeah. Yes, because it's easy for women to get a little ass. That's why. And it's not, you know, all you have to do is say hello. We have to work on it.
It is a little harder.
Yeah.
Shout out to my wife.
And also, I mean, look, I'm not blaming the wives. But like when I think about Michelle Obama, the way she's been talking about her husband lately, it's that same syndrome. You know, it's always like, oh, I keep him grounded. Like, who the fuck wants to be kept grounded? You know? Like, oh, you got elected the first Black president of the United States. Don't think you're all that.
Sounds like you're blaming the wives.
I'm not blaming the wives. Well, you could be a little nicer, maybe. I don't know. I've never been married.
My husband's out here somewhere.
I've never been married. I don't know. But I'm just saying, it's so easy to honeypot these people. And I don't know. China seems to be doing it on an industrial level. And I don't know if we're doing it. Maybe we should be doing it more. Why aren't we in the game?
Who's Trump sending into China?
Well, that and we can't even manage our own FAA right now, so. And you want us to honeypot someone? You can't keep planes on the sky.
I'm just saying you got to.
I remember Don Jr. once told me that all of the allegations and Trump won about the Russia hoax and all of that, as Trump calls it. He said, "We couldn't get, like, we couldn't get a cheeseburger order to the White House in the first administration. Like, you think we're colluding with Russia? Like, we could barely do the basics. We didn't know where the bathrooms were." But there is some truth to that in the challenge that they have in executing.
Should the Democrats now go after this full throttle? I mean, they now have the investigative power. This fell in their laps at just the right time, right?
Well, it's not just Democrats. Republicans are asking Huang to testify in Capitol Hill.
And Howard Lutnick.
And Howard Lutnick to come on Capitol Hill. It's interesting. It wasn't the fact that Howard Lutnick was on Epstein's island. It was this that got them to say, "Come on up on Capitol Hill." And listen, I think they should go full throttle. This is a national security issue.
It really is.
It really is.
Okay. Well, moving on. Russell Brand is in the news. What? What? I just mentioned his name. Look, we don't know what happened in that room, but he certainly looks like a guy who could use some lessons in civility. And he's about to get them for 10 and a half years in prison in Britain. So we thought it'd be a good time to catch you up on 24 things you don't know about Russell Brand. One of the things we do often on this show, 24 things.
For example, I once beat Jared Leto in a sleaze off. I described my look as if Jesus had been sold cocaine. When I got baptized to wash away my sins, they had to change the water three times. He was a big Christian guy.
Katy Perry once went to space to avoid me in a restaurant. I gave Paddington Bear the idea for a raincoat and no pants.
Not the bear.
I special ordered a prison jumpsuit that unbuttons to the waist. I'm not worried about dropping the soap in prison because I haven't showered since 2014. And Diddy and I will star in Get Him to the Greek II in 2036. 2034 with good behavior. So.
Okay. So let's talk about media, because I wanted to have you two on, because I think you're trying to do something new in media, which is great, because media needs something new. And that is something that isn't biased, something that's just telling you what goes on. I mean, I'm not saying in the old days of Walter Cronkite it was perfect, but at the end, when he said, "That's the way it is," nobody questioned that he was just giving us the news. He wasn't telling you how to think or what to think. He was just telling you what happened.
Is that how you see what you're trying to do?
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the most harmful things to the media has been this blending of opinion and straight fact. And it's so difficult, especially with the world of social media, right, for users to understand who is giving you opinion and analysis and who is giving you just journalistic truth that has been vetted, that is well-sourced, that has gone through the proper process, because there is, like, as much as my editors drive me crazy sometimes, there's a reason they are there. And that push and pull in a newsroom is so important.
And I feel like, you know, I host a podcast called The Conversation, where I have people from left and right and all across the political spectrum on my show. And as I look around in the podcast sphere, especially, there are so few political shows that aren't wearing a jersey, that just have honest conversations that are nonpartisan.
President Company accepted, I'm sure.
Absolutely. So few that.
No, I mean, I take people yell at me sometimes for starting this whole trend of like, you know, politics and politics with opinion. And it's like, yeah, but I'm admitting I have the opinion. And also, I'm not a newscaster. I mean, I just did a fucking monologue. Okay? There's a joke. You know? But I don't think people make that difference anymore in their mind. They just get what they get, how they get it, and they don't care if it's true or not. They just want to, I think, too many times, have what they already believe reinforced.
I think that's definitely part of it. I will say there is a large part of society, especially young people nowadays, who are actually looking for information. They just don't know where to find it.
Right.
And so they go to social media because that's what they look at when they wake up or go to bed. And I think that there is a real, real gap where civics education isn't taught in all 50 states across the country and all schools across the country.
Let alone media literacy.
Right. Media literacy isn't taught where they are in literal news deserts because local newsrooms are closing and people can't get information. And so they turn to social media. And yeah, oftentimes, unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation, especially with the rise in AI. And as we talked about the tech oligarchs earlier, they have no incentive to shut any of it down. They just let it run wild. And it's like a boulder rolling down a hill.
And accuracy is not what goes viral.
No.
I mean, how are you competing in this world where everybody else is not trying to inform, they're just trying to inflame. They're not really trying to be fair. They're just trying to get clicks and get people who already agree with them to see something that they can cheer about. How do you stack up against that?
It's really hard, frankly. And I think, to Aaron's point, the hope for someone like me is that the pendulum swings a little bit and that people get sick of the dopamine high, the sugar high from the partisan rage bait. And I often joke that I'm like the broccoli whenever I go on TV networks. Like, I get yelled at by people on the right and on the left because I'm not there to tell people the stuff that makes them happy or feel good about themselves. I'm there to, you know, when Donald Trump was running in 2024, I was following him on the campaign trail.
And I was going on MSNBC, I was at NBC News at the time, saying, "I'm at this rally at the Bronx where there are Black and brown people here who have never voted for a Republican before, and they are planning to vote for Donald Trump. And there will be panelists afterwards, like, shitting on me and on my reporting, saying, 'There's no way that she's picking the truth.'"
But they will attack you just for reporting facts.
I'm not saying it because it makes me happy. I'm saying it because it's the truth. And I'm the Grim Reaper to everybody.
Good for you. And I get the same shit that you get. So, okay. We're on TV now.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
This will be on social media, though, right?
100%.
Well, yeah.
And Aaron will make sure that it's true.
You can watch the whole show of real time on your phone. People do. I mean, but the phone is not really the device where people spend one whole hour looking at something.
I do.
You do.
Yeah. I mean, scrolling TikTok for a whole hour.
Well, this won't be scrolling. Is it just watching? Okay. So my point is, my audience is looking at YouTube going like, "Boy, these two are great. What rock have they been hiding under? I never heard about that." You know, that's the TV audience.
Well, it's amazing that you have two young people.
They're not going to see this at all, because they don't have a TV. They don't even own a TV.
They will see it because.
They'll make this go viral.
This will be clipped up. This will be on Twitter. I'm sure by tomorrow, it'll be everywhere.
Will they see the whole thing? Will they get the context? Will they just get the things that people take out of context? Because this happens to me all the time. It must happen to you. I will do an editorial here, and half of it will slam the right, and half of it will slam the left. And I'll pick up the post the next day, which is a right-wing thing. And then they'll just print the part where I said the things that they want to hear. Like, the other stuff is just in the ether now.
It's the clipping economy. I mean, this is the world that we live in today. I will say this, though. Like, I don't remember the last time I sat through a full movie. I just don't. I'm 27.
I'm so sad.
I don't have the attention span to do it.
A full movie?
A full movie. So it just doesn't happen.
You know what? I don't either. I watch them, but not all at once. Because I always say to people, "How can you not watch them?" I say, "Do you read a book all at once?"
No.
No. You read a few chapters? Like, I'll watch 20 minutes of a movie one night. 100%. It'll take me five nights to watch. So what? Is that what you do, or you just don't?
That's exactly what I do. But sometimes, if I like some parts and not like others, I'll just kind of skip through.
As a cinephile that pains me.
You're going to miss the part where they put the horse's head in the bed. And then it's just, okay.
So the three-hour you can see everything, the Nathan Fielder, Elizabeth Holmes movie.
I haven't watched it.
Oh, boy. You're missing out.
I watched the clips online.
Okay. So, look, there's a bunch of reasons why I think people are ill-informed these days. I would start with the schools, but we don't have to go through that, because we could be here for two hours. But I just happen to know from seeing too many men on the street interviews with young people that they will let you out of high school without knowing anything. And I mean anything. Like, there is nothing so basic that they will not say, "No problem. Here's your diploma." But media is the other, I think, part of it that's the problem.
And the two issues that bug me the most, where I think people just don't know what the fuck they're talking about, are socialism. I'm talking about mostly younger people. Socialism in Israel. They just don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Speaking about only seeing parts of movies, I feel like with Israel, it's like a three-hour movie, and they watch the last five minutes where they attack Gaza. And nothing that happened before is even in their consciousness. And you can't get it in their consciousness.
I think the lack of context, especially when it comes to people who consume their news on TikTok, is really a huge part of the problem. And I think it's also on us as reporters. I saw a debate on X today where one journalist said, "I think people don't realize when we quote anonymous sources that they're not anonymous to us." Like, we know who the sources are. We're just not printing their names.
Right.
And it's funny, but actually, no, it's true. People do not know how the reporting process works. I think we as journalists, it's incumbent on us to show our work more so that people understand. When we put out a story, we're not pulling it out of our ass. Like, there's a ton of work that goes into that. And it's why when it's shortened and it's truncated and it's just clipped up on social, you are not getting the full picture. Like, I cannot put out a piece that doesn't have the context of what we're reporting about and that doesn't attempt to show all sides.
So you think the people who watch you know that Israel gave Gaza back in 2005? You think they know that?
Well, Bill, if you wanted to explain the entire Israel-Gaza issue, I mean, you could spend weeks, and you still wouldn't be able to explain the past 75 years. And so social media.
But wouldn't that be one thing that probably should enter into it if you're just going to look at what's happened in the last year, that they actually gave it back? They said, "We don't want it. We just don't want to be attacked from it," which kept going on.
I mean, I would say, wouldn't you want on Facebook while you're scrolling to see who won the 2020 election and for it to be completely accurate? I mean, at the end of the day, social media is not designed to give you the full picture of every single story dating back decades and decades. You're never going to get that on any story on social media. And I think there are a lot of good reporters on social media giving enough context for you to get that 90 seconds and kind of go about your day. Not everyone's doing it, but I mean, it is there. It's just you just have to find it.
I'll also say you've picked a bit on young people. And thank you for having two youths on your panel who also both happen to be Ukrainian. Your DEI department's a little bit weird, I have to say. But having been on the campaign trail for the last 10 years in the Trump era, it is also a whole lot of boomers that are on Facebook going down rabbit holes of conspiracy theories. You remember the QAnon era. There's a theory I heard in 2023 when I was covering the election from a woman who was convinced that under the Getty Museum here in Los Angeles, there is a child trafficking ring of hundreds of thousands of children.
So like, misinformation is a problem across generations.
And by the way, it's the older people now who are more, they say, it's kind of reversing.
Yeah.
Kids are having a kind of a rethink about how much we should be attached to social media.
Look at Australia. They're like happy to put their phones away.
I read it with like the older people, like 22 hours a week. How much they're on. Yeah.
Are you guys okay?
Yeah.
I'm Mary.
But what about learning something? Good, bad? Because like with socialism, which again, some of this is not socialism. I know this. I went to college. I know what communism is. When you're talking about taking over the means of production, when you're talking about government-run food stores, that's communism. I'm not saying that is a slur. I'm just saying that that's what it is. It's an economic system. You have every right to vote for it, but that's what it is. I feel like there is an arrogance in not looking at the past, not even wanting to.
The idea that people have tried this, we know it doesn't work. We have the examples of so many different countries around the world. Just look at the two Koreas. Or I just read India. When they got rid of socialism and moved to capitalism, they raised 500 million people out of poverty into the middle class in just like 13 years. That's the facts. Is anybody seeing that?
I think there's a lot of these labels that have just become very superficial shorthand for people to say I'm a progressive. Like the DSA platform, if you actually read it, most of the people coming into Congress that are supported by the DSA or identify as Democratic socialists don't actually support the majority of the Democratic platform. But it's a signal to voters to say, "I'm super progressive. I'm going to push for Medicare for all and for some socialist populist, economic populist policies." That doesn't necessarily mean I'm a socialist. But you ask people to define the word, and a lot of people struggle.
You saw JD Vance recently say, "Socialism means you're trying to trans our kids." Right? So we've gotten all kinds of confused.
Yeah.
I missed that one. He said it.
He said socialism means here in the United States, socialism means people that want men and girls' sports and trans surgeries for children.
I mean, it's an economic system. I don't know why we would ever go there, but okay.
I mean, listen, I think a lot of these talking points and like these buzzwords go to much deeper fundamental issues that a lot of people in America have right now. If you can't afford to get groceries and you hear a politician saying, "We're going to open up government-funded groceries," that makes a lot of sense, and it's very appealing, of course. And I also think, I mean, when you talk about the past, the first-time voter in 2026 was born when President Obama was elected in 2008. You asking them to go before 2008, I mean, they're not going to. I don't remember President Obama as president.
I don't remember the French Revolution, but I know about it. All right. Anyway, I got to go to New Rules. Thank you, guys. All right. New Rules. New Rules. Now that Josh Hawley is calling on Christians to respond to the midterms by gathering at the Capitol on December 15 to fast and pray from 12 to 1, someone has to tell him, when you lose an election this bad, doesn't it tell you prayers don't work?
And also, fast from 12 to 1? Not eating for an hour, that's not fasting. Gandhi didn't eat for 21 days. Jesus went for 40. How do you think he got those abs? New Rules. The West Virginia man who used a bounced check to pay for a Jesus tattoo must tell us if it was worth it.
I don't know what the answer to what would Jesus do is, but I'm pretty sure it's not get Pepsi in West Virginia. I hope that tattoo helps you get into heaven, because your credit score is definitely going to hell. New Rules. To the Memphis woman whose water broke while she was shopping at an AT&T phone outlet, just be glad it didn't happen in an Apple store.
If you delivered the baby there, they're going to charge you separately for the cord. New Rules. President Trump must be consistent. So this year, when he gives two turkeys a pardon before Thanksgiving, he must first get them to either buy his cryptocurrency or make an energy deal with Eric and Don Jr. through a shell company in the Cayman Islands.
New Rules. The media outlets reporting that this 97-year-old man died at his own birthday party while dancing to the song "Stayin' Alive." They must be more specific on the timeline, because if he literally dropped dead while dancing to "Stayin' Alive," that's funny. But if he dropped dead first and then "Stayin' Alive" started playing, well, that's just the DJ being a dick.
And finally, New Rule. Now that we've had an election in 2026 that undid the vibe shift we had in 2024, when we had an election that undid the vibe shift we had in 2020, can we please stop having vibe shifts and just vibe? Because I'm getting carsick. I just want it to stop in the middle, not where we were at peak woke when even AOC said woke one was crazy. And it was with the endless sanctimony about how everything you did, said, ate, and thought made you a racist, sexist, colonizer.
But also not where Trump took us the last two years with his important message that together we could accomplish hateful things. As much as anything, Republicans lost this election because no one wanted the pendulum to swing all the way to full asshole, to cruelty, all the way from look what a good person I am to look what a douchebag I can be. Yes, liberal virtue signaling had become tiresome. But did we have to go to vice signaling?
Americans don't like being governed by people who think they're better than everybody else. But they also said loud and clear, they don't like people who take pride in being worse. Lincoln had a cabinet that was a team of rivals. Trump assembled a team of dicks. Every government directive and executive order was written like they were using Chat SOB.
Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Mail Over Compensation, wanting to live stream a public execution for the holidays? Kristi Noem in a $60,000 wristwatch, Voging in a torture gulag, Alligator Alcatraz, moms shot in their minivans, the richest man in the world gleefully fucking the poorest children out of mosquito nets, the fake Ramaswamy making an attack ad saying a 12-year-old rape victim was lying and Trump and Vance saying, "Fair game."
Okay, this is how you lose even Texas. Because the opposite of being a sanctimonious prick isn't being an actual prick. And Republicans used to understand that. Conservatives used to be about character, personal responsibility, and family values. And yes, maybe a little gay sex at a highway rest stop, but. But mostly the character family thing. They could have fought crime without acting like we just elected the Joker Police Commission.
They could have enforced the border without making a spectacle of suffering and sending people to countries they have no connection to. But Democrats would be remiss if they didn't notice that none of this happened in a vacuum. Everything is a reaction to what went before. One reason Trump got reelected was Americans had grown exhausted with what I call the lawn sign people. You've seen the lawn sign, right? In this house, we believe that Black lives matter, women's rights are human rights, no human is illegal, science is real, love is love, and kindness is everything.
Thank you, house. I was about to become a Nazi, but then I drove past you. I mean, the thing is, those are good concepts that most Americans already believe in, even if we have different ideas about getting there. But when you need to put it out on the lawn, ugh. And by the way, if women's rights are human rights is really a big thing for you, you might want to check out what goes on in your beloved Palestine.
And science is real? That's pretty funny from people still wearing the COVID mask. From people who insisted for years that humans could be healthy at any weight until Ozempic came along and then they said, "Of course no one wants to be fat." Who was saying that? It's all well and good to declare yourself the morally enlightened ones, but when your policy ideas are based on how good they make you feel and not on how much good they actually do, that's when people lurch to the other even worse extreme.
Sure, land acknowledgements let us know what a good person you are, but do the Indians really benefit knowing you acknowledge the stolen land you're drinking your $18 smoothie on? Who benefited when you didn't enforce the laws against shoplifting? Who benefits when you give a homeless schizophrenic clean needles instead of forcing him into treatment? Who benefits when you decide that standardized tests are racist? Not the smart poor kid who just lost the best way to prove he's smart.
I know it's very important to you that Black people know you're an ally, but bad news, I talk to every Black person in America and turns out they kind of don't give a shit. Yeah. Yeah. Turns out they're not waking up every day saying, "What can I do today to make sure white people feel better about themselves?" Now that Democrats won the election, let's not get high on our own supply like the last crowd did and interpret the W as a sign to go back to bad ideas.
Bad ideas like defund the police, which only made life worse for the people who mostly want more cops. I don't care what race or class you are. When you dial emergency services, you want to hear 911. What's your emergency? Not 911. You're fucked because some elitist do-gooders imagined a world where cops aren't necessary. Seattle. Seattle tried a no-police zone in 2020, and of course, people went full Burning Man.
But at least the protesters got some good pictures for their Instagram stories. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. I want to thank Aaron Parnas, Dasha Burns, and Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders for random drops every Monday on YouTube. Or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, folks. Go watch Overtime on YouTube now. Thank you.
Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10:00, or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.
Bill’s guests are Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Aaron Parnas, Dasha Burns (Originally aired 11/13/26)
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