Transcript of Blue Tsunami: Dems’ Next Move, Wall Street Reax, and Guest Amy Klobuchar

Knock, knock! Democracy, bitches!

Uh, hi everyone, live from the State Theater in Minneapolis. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Um, Scott, you look very comely in that sweater, by the way.

Go on.

Yeah, not that comely.

Go on.

I'm just trying to sell sweaters. Um, anyway, uh, we also.

I'm going to turn you into a double lesbian. Is there such a thing? What does that mean?

You'd have to go back to being straight, right, and then come back.

Come back?

Yeah.

As long as I can watch.

Yeah, okay. No. No, you cannot.

All the women are.

No.

We are in blue Minnesota. Whatever.

Okay.

You want to hold you want to hold on to these swing voters? Stop being such fucking snowflakes. Let's have a sense of humor.

Right, okay. They do. This is, you know what? This is woke 3.0. We laugh.

That's right.

We laugh at.

We do.

He thinks things are funny now, except for Shane Gillis, and that's enough of him. All right, we also launched our first newsletter this week, Pivot Post. You can sign up at pivotshow.com. All right, we're going to, um, get in now, uh, to some of our main events here. And the first one is, we hear you elected a new governor here in Minnesota. Who I knew as a senator, who I talked to quite a bit because of tech issues, um, this evening.

Welcome to the State Theater. Now that I'm their first woman governor, it's my theater.

Wait, you.

I'm that was a Trump joke. It was a Trump joke.

Wait, are you the first woman governor?

I'm the first woman governor of the state of Minnesota.

Like across the country?

Yeah.

Uh-huh. And Keisha Lance Bottom is the first woman governor of Georgia the first.

In fact, we're going to have a record number in January, 15 Democratic women governors.

Right, which is amazing.

And maybe more. So they flipped.

Yeah.

Five governor's seats last night. Two, two were waiting on, very positive, for, uh, a number of governors overall. And in the U.S. Senate, if you guys are watching this, my workplace, we flipped seven seats with two more to go.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Um, uh, and I remember you telling me when all the senators, women senators, do things together, right?

Yeah, well, we have a dinner every couple times a year, and we never talk about the male senators. Never. Everything that's said in that room, it stays in that room.

Yeah, and you do different, like, trips, right, around the place?

Oh, yeah, no, we have a it's a it's a good group, but it's about to get even better.

Yeah, and, and are you going to do the same thing with the governors?

When we add Annie Andrews from South Carolina.

Okay.

I'm not going to keep dropping names, but it's kind of incredible what happened last night. It was like.

It is.

When Donald Trump said, remember when he said in the last week, when you go to the voting booth, picture me? When he said that, they did.

Yeah, yeah.

They did.

They did, 100%. Uh, there's so many good memes about it right now, like.

Yeah.

Susan Collins' reign of concern is over.

In any case, um, I do want to share let's focus on you. I want to share a quick stat. You won by roughly 13 points, the largest margin for a Minnesota governor since 1994, and the biggest margin for a non-incumbent governor for 44 years.

That's pretty good.

Um, I, I actually texted her to come, and she's like, if I win, I'm like, oh, stop it. Like.

Well, I want to establish that I accepted this gig before we knew how good last night was going to be.

Right, absolutely.

Because I like you guys.

I know. So lots of Democrats are writing the post-midterm memo this morning. What is in yours, uh, besides Trump is upset? What is.

I mean, clearly it is one moment of celebration that everyone deserves after what has been going on here. And you think about the voters. These weren't just city voters, or they weren't just suburban voters. They were also rural voters. The fact that we flip states like North Carolina and South Carolina in the Senate, as well as the state of Maine, and then you go down to Texas with Talarico, and you go to Ohio, and you go to Kansas and Iowa, our neighbors, because, uh, these guys know that I know the difference between hawks and hawkeyes.

So that's between now and February.

Since that happened.

This is between.

No, no, we could do it this year. I hope we do, but it also may be next year. The Medicaid cuts, which are decimating our hospitals throughout the country, ending the war in Iran, um, when we have now voted against it 14 times, um, and then doing something about these tariffs. You know, one as one soybean farmer in southern Minnesota said to me, it's like a perfect storm of ugly between their input costs up, their markets drying up. So there are some real deliverables that I think have to happen.

Right.

Now, of course, you still got this guy in the White House, so it's going to have to be, uh, the Congress pushing and pushing. But people have to remember, yes, accountability, but they also have to remember, um, that what people voted on, uh, were the fact that they did see his face. They didn't see his face on that big, beautiful ballroom. They didn't see his face as he wants on the Kennedy Center. They saw his face on the gas pump. They saw his face on those premium increases. So I do think it's really important, uh, that.

Focus on that over the next year.

That when we go into next year, that we remember why we won this election.

But you know, one of the things they're talking about, revenge or retribution, but accountability is not retribution. It is accountability, right?

Correct.

I mean, that's the right thing.

That's right.

Um, when you think about that, a lot of different, different Democrats are debating. Uh, people are very angry at what has happened. Uh, but a lot of people say there's no use in impeaching him. There's no use of do using your time to do that, because as Scott has said, we're the Democrats are paying rent, not the mortgage here. They haven't sort of closed the deal yet. So how what is the balance of doing that? Because there is there is a lot of cri possible criminal behavior here.

Well, there obviously has to be hearings about what has happened here. And you think about we saw this firsthand, uh, with the, uh, civil rights violations and of course the horrific killings of Alex Pretti and Renee Good, but also just people being picked up because of the color of their skin and the fact that they put $70 billion extra dollars into ICE, which made it bigger than the FBI or the Marines. Um, those kinds of things, which we have done as Democrats in spotlight hearings on our own and called in witnesses.

Real things.

Is some relief when it comes to what's been happening with costs in their lives.

Right. Scott?

So ending the war in Iran, um, affordable healthcare, geopolitics, and then, um, domestic policy that, quite frankly, is an expense. Over the long term, it might save money. But as you move from the executive to executive role.

Good at radio.

But for conversations, I think. Usually for economic growth. That's the swing. And the reason why Texas and Florida are doing so well is they have been very pro-growth. And I apologize, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of guy, so I'm going to go to the.

You're exactly right about the economic growth issue, so keep going.

But if you were to look at the migration patterns, generally speaking, a reductive analysis would be cold and high-tax states are losing populace to warm and low-tax states that are considered quote-unquote pro-growth. What is the executive, uh, for Minnesota? What is your plan for actual for economic growth? Because if you look at the two groups that swung hardest to blue, I would argue we're renting them. We don't own them. Hispanics and young men, and they vote they mostly vote based on who they think is going to put more money in their pockets. So as an executive for the great state of Minnesota, what specifically are your plans to inspire growth, attract industry?

Sure. So from day one, as my constituents here know, I ran on a growth agenda.

Mm-hmm.

Um, we have lagged, as you've noted, like a lot of states, uh, in the upper Midwest, um, have been lagging in the last decade. Uh, but this year, actually, we did have we're like sixth in the country for growth. I hope it stays. It's the first two quarters. We've gone up 3%. Um, but this is how I look at this. Number one, we have to cut through the red tape. Things were put in for good reasons, but it's too hard to start a business, too hard to expand a business, so that's one. Really having a state government that matches the drive and ambition of the people in our state.

But that's also a federal thing, too. That's an.

Well, the Road to Housing bill that we passed with the interesting duo of, uh, Tim Scott and Elizabeth Warren, um, but that bill was is a major housing bill that will actually pay that way for more modular ho-housing, which is less expensive to build, uh, manufactured homes. I mean, like, where my husband grew up in what was called a trailer home, those aren't your grandpa's manufactured homes anymore. And looking how we can reduce the cost of mortgages and rent, um, as well as bring down childcare, and we already talked a little bit about healthcare costs.

Right. So, so you spend so much time by the way, Tim Scott and Elizabeth Warren are always out partying in DC together.

All the time. You can't stop them.

Crazy.

Happy hours.

Happy hours.

After parties.

Little embarrassing, I'll be honest with you, um, whenever I run into them. Um, but you spent almost 20 years in the Senate. Uh, what do you know now about Washington that makes you glad or sad to leave it? And, you know, you and I have talked a lot about tech legislation, and I'd love to know how you feel about you tried and tried, and you know, you're like, "This year, Kara." And I'm like, "No, you shall not." It was like it went all back.

Done endless podcasts about my very good bills.

You tried to get to an excellent bill in a minute.

I would say you were the strongest voice, one of the strongest voices, if not the strongest. You, you were, um, what, what do you think how do you look at that? Because you were there with privacy, with algorithms, with all manner of things, and now. Now please.

You come home to roost with data centers, with fears about AI, with public opinion against it. At the same time, you we, we can't completely ignore this as a governor. So how do you how are you going to operate as a governor differently? And what are you going to miss about Washington?

Oh, like Ted Cruz. I mean, I don't know. So he actually does a lot of the tech bills with me. The only AI bill that's passed was our Take It Down Act. But, uh, the truth is, is that I really just stepping back on that front, um, I actually love my job in the Senate. I'm third in leadership. But looking at what happened in our state in the last year from losing our beloved Speaker of the House, Melissa Hortman, the kids gunned down in a church, ICE, um, and the serious fraud issue, I decided I love my state more.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and as I look at leaving the Senate, you know, you always want to leave a job when you're on a in a high point. I think, you know, gaining nine seats potentially, I'm feeling pretty good that I can leave it in good shape, as well as with our new Senator, Peggy Flanagan, that is coming in.

And.

Um, so I, you know, so there's that. But when it comes to tech, yes, and I've thought a lot about this, because the areas that I've led in have been on taking on pharma, on, uh, some of the agriculture rural issues.

That's correct.

And then, of course, on this. And there has been a growing group of people. It actually used to just be like me and, um, and Ted Cruz. And, um, and.

Another pair of partying.

And, um, there were a few others that were doing it. And now, you know, you have got Blumenthal's always been really strong on it. Um, we've got a number of other senators that have gotten activated. And there have been a few people that stood up in caucus that have said, "Amy said this a long time ago."

You did.

And the idea that we need some guardrails, um, when it comes to, yes, AI, and that is something I hope we can get done, at least a bill included in the end-of-the-year must-pass bills, um, that would require the companies.

The frontier act.

Well, there's that, yeah, but would require some version of this, that would require the companies, and they now wanted, a number of them, um, to have to get their products and their models, uh, verified before they can go forward, that they have to alert the government when there's imminent harm.

Right.

And there is some growing support for that, but then, of course, Donald Trump truths it. That's the verb they use. Truth socials it. Um, and then everyone in the past, not next year, says, "Oh." Um, but I don't think we can wait on that. But then you get to the next level, which is the privacy legislation, the protecting kids online. Um, and I just think over time, too many people said, "Trust me." And it went along and along, and now there is growing concern so that there is the actual possibility. I hope I've left them some products, uh, that they can pass.

Right.

Um, and I'll come back.

Can you do anything as a governor in that role? Obviously.

Oh, yeah. So as a governor, we have, uh, Minnesota has actually been a leader. We were, you know, one of the few states that said, "No, you can't use AI in political ads." Uh, that pretty much held during the, um, months, at least the ones that were, uh, on TV. It's not to say we had a lot of great ads. I had $16 million in negative ads. And thanks to the person that when I walked in said, "You look so much better in person than you do on TV." I'm like, "God, those were negative ads." My big joy, uh, last, uh, uh, week, by the way, was when Uline, this guy, um, out of Wisconsin, the billionaire, decided to put his last million in radio.

He spent he spent money.

By the way, the people of Minnesota spoke when he out they outdid me two to one on ads, and they said, "We are not going to let a Packers fan buy the Minnesota governor's office." Um, so.

He spent he spent $9 million. He spent $9 million.

No, there was hidden money every which way with this guy. So there was a lot of negative ads that ran. It was more than that. There was also I bet people in this room got it, false flag flyers and mailers going in, um, that were trying to hit me, um, to say I wasn't left enough to try to suppress the vote.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I did appreciate the progressive group that put a post out with one of the mailers and said, "Look, this is false. You are trying to just you are trying to suppress the vote from the left. And guess what? We're the only ones that can say this stuff about Klobe." So anyway, it was a really bad scene, and I was thankful that Minnesota had actually banned AI in these, uh, political ads. And they also have taken other measures and have a, uh, a data center bill that can be improved.

Right.

But they did they did, on a bipartisan basis, pass a bill that was more progressive, um, a year or two ago, that I think is helpful. So there is just a number of things where Minnesota and the states have acted. And I think one of the ways you get the feds to finally do something about privacy and what kids are exposed to and, you know, selling fentanyl online and these horror things is when the states act, because the companies that lobbied against these for a long time don't want a patchwork of regulations.

But doesn't that doesn't supersede that doesn't supersede good.

It doesn't su but the point is, you need some kind of federal laws, and I hope that this is a Congress that will finally get it done.

Scott.

So data centers, uh, just such a hot topic, uh, kind of, you know, triggers a lot of people. Um, I just want to take the over-under here or the under. I live in Minnesota, and of course, there shouldn't I love the legislation, no NDAs. People never want the factory or the nuclear power plant, but the reality is every state needs economic growth to pay for wonderful things like food stamps and Medicare and Medicaid. I look at Minnesota and I think, "Okay, you got power.

Really? No. I mean, it's been a gr it's been a great fall, right? So, yeah. Okay.

It strikes me that Minnesota is hand in glove for data centers and to tack onto some of that AI growth.

Well, I think so much of this is, first of all, to have local control. So the local localities are going to be able to make this decision. The second thing is to make sure people don't get hosed on their electric bills, that they are the water is protected, that there's I mean, these protections, that's what we've learned from other states. So the way I look at it, the fact that we I think we have 61 of them. It's not like some of these other states. And the fact that we put this law into place later, that obviously can be improved, um, is a good thing, because, uh, we have learned a lot from what has gone wrong, and it clearly has gone wrong in a lot of other states.

Can I can I just do a quick follow-up? Because now that I find that people get a lot more honest once they're leaving office. Um, can you.

So cynical.

I know. I hate my life less and less every day. Um, give us some Republican senators that you really enjoyed working with that you think are good people and good, good lawmakers.

Sure. So I have, uh, worked with many, uh, over the years. And I have worked with my neighbors, uh, a lot, uh, which has included, um, Senator, uh, Hoven and Senator Kramer up in North Dakota. We did a lot on infrastructure, and they call it Fargo-Moorhead. I call it Moorhead-Fargo.

Yep.

Um, uh, between our states, I've done a lot with Senator Rounds, who cares a lot about Native American issues, uh, and a number of other things in South Dakota. Um, Senator Bozeman and I, I still hope we can get a farm bill done by the end of this year, because we need to fix these SNAP, uh, food nutrition program shifts that are coming up. Um, I have worked well with a number of the women senators, uh, including Senator Capito, who just got reelected last night on eating disorders. I can go through the list of them.

Where's where is that machine gun?

They took it away. They would have they took it away. They took it away. And so the, the truth story was that he and Senator Graham and I were in the middle of a blizzard, because I only like to do things in blizzards, after the original invasion by Russia in Donbas on New Year's Eve, tons of cameras, before Zelensky, the former President Pushchenko of Ukraine. And they gave John McCain a machine gun, Ukrainian-made, and they gave Lindsey Graham a revolver.

Learn more at DeepComments.

They gave me the little box that had a dagger in it. I'm like, "So John McCain, to his credit, complained to the President of Ukraine the whole way back in this black-op helicopter about how this was sexist." And by the time I got to the hotel, they gave me a revolver. And so our last visit, when he can hardly talk, he's still making jokes about the situation.

Oh.

But the very last thing he did is he couldn't speak at the end of the meeting, and he had me take out one of the books, uh, that he had written. And he pointed to a sentence, and he said, "Always remember this." And the sentence says, "There's nothing in life more liberating than fighting for a cause larger than yourself."

Oh, wow.

Um, and so, you know.

That is.

That was that was what he stood for for me. And so I have learned a lot from him and really, um, people from both parties in that place. And I believe that there is so much more good we can come out of Congress. And this election was about hope over hate. This election, uh, was about people who believed in our country versus divisiveness and ugliness. And when I saw those people cheering in Austin, I don't know if you saw the video.

Yeah, it looked like it looked like Hungary.

I know. It was, like, unbelievable.

Yeah.

Austin, Texas. Not Austin, Minnesota, because you know, it's raining there right now, so we couldn't we would be doing that, but it's raining.

Okay. We need to take a quick break. We come back more with Governor-elect Amy Klobuchar.

Scott, we're back, recording live from the State Theater here in Minneapolis with more from the state's newly elected governor and current senator, Amy Klobuchar. Um, this this past winter, the federal government sent thousands of agents into Minnesota. DHS called it the biggest immigration operation ever. 3,000 people arrested, dozens of kids detained, two U.S. citizens killed. Today, I can't ever say his name, Mark Wayne Mullen, um, said deportations aren't going to stop.

Well, we have a new Congress in town, which they are about to notice.

Right.

Um, and Congress still has the power of the purse strings, and that means you can use that power for good. Um, and that has included, of course, the fact that in the Senate, time and time again, we voted against these funding, the additional funding to ICE, that the lack of training. We went through everything we wanted to see different: the masks, you name it, and the reforms that we needed to see. And they wouldn't do it. And I think what you've seen in this election is a lot of people speaking up and saying this was wrong.

Mm-hmm.

Um, when this happened in our state, and I I always like to remind people that this was the horrific killings, yes, but it was also about the Monk Elder being pulled out of his house in his underwear and crocs, keeps saying, "I'm a citizen. I'm a citizen." Um, the stories and videos of, say, three guys standing there, two white, one Latino, and they just pick out the Latino, throw him in a car. Maybe they dump him out once he shows his ID three blocks later. It was civil rights violation after civil rights violation.

Do you think they've heard loud and clear?

Well, I think they will hear loud and clear once the new Congress comes in. And I think you're going to see what I have never understood is the president could have just said, "We want order at the border," and then there you go. But what he did then, and he could have then said, "I want to work on comprehensive immigration reform." And there was a lot of support in Congress for doing that, um, as we need more workers, as we need more sensible immigration system, um, on both the Democratic and Republican side.

Yeah.

Um, but the second thing of my most memorable part of all of this was when it was at least they had pulled most of the ICE agents out of Minnesota. I got a call from Ambassador Caroline Kennedy, and she said, "We want to give the Profile and Courage Award to Minnesota." And, um, "Who should we give it to? Should we give it to an elected official?" And I said, "No, you should give it to the people." And she said, "Should we just give it to Minneapolis?" And I said, "No, you should give it to the Twin Cities, because that includes St.

So you just got some insight into our relationship. Kara told me what to ask, and it's ridiculously boring.

We wanted to ask it.

Right?

I thought you were.

No, you wanted.

What do you mean? I thought.

You literally wanted to ask.

I thought you were throwing a card at it that said.

No, I didn't.

"Heller, you got to end this."

No, I don't.

Like, stop. I thought it was like.

We have several more.

We have more than this.

What do you think of the.

National.

Poll signs? Time is up.

No, no.

What do you think of the.

National Popular Vote Interstate?

No, he literally.

Let me ask. Can I ask my I'm going to ask my question.

I can't.

What is the question?

Kara and I talk a lot about the struggles of young men in college. It's now 40-60. Four times as likely to be addicts, four times as likely to be homeless. And as governor and governors have actually led the way for the first time, and this wouldn't have been possible even five years ago. Governors Moore and Newsom have proposed specific legislation to try and create more community and address the needs of what I think is the cohort that has fallen furthest fastest in this nation and young men, young men. And there's a lack of empathy because, quite frankly, of the unnatural, unknown benefit that men of my generation received.

So I think one of the things and you pointed this out, that there was a shift, um, in how young men voted in this election.

Yeah, huge. Biggest of any cohort.

And I think with that comes an obligation, right? Because people have felt left out. And I think there are a lot of them, as someone that has tended to be able to win, um, it's harder for women candidates sometimes to win the male vote. I've done it, not as much as the women's vote. Um, and I think a lot of that has to do with speaking to opportunity for people and making people not feel left out. Um, when I get keep getting asked about, you know, being the first woman in this, first woman in this, I myself don't emphasize it that much.

So, uh, you get to appoint your own replacement in the Senate, um, because you're the governor. Uh, do you pick a caretaker who won't run or someone who can hold the seat? Uh, who are you thinking of?

Are you thinking that I would, like, announce this on your show? Uh, that.

I would.

Why not?

Um, there will be time for this. It is an interim position, and then there'll be an election. That's how democracy works.

Right.

Despite what Donald Trump might think.

Yeah.

Um, there will be an election. And so.

Is there someone super annoying you could send that would drive them crazy?

I will make sure that it is someone that's going to put our state first, and that's what we need right now.

Right. Okay. And, um, uh, what who do they.

No, they don't. Just don't don't they're they're yelling out names. It's going to be a whole thing that you but thank you.

Oh, Scott Galloway. Um, all right. Um, you ran for president in 2020. I'm going to try this one then. Um, can you are you going to run for president again?

No. I am committed to do the work here. And there is a lot of work that needs to be done. So.

Okay.

Our the people out there know what I'm talking about, but we have to build trust in our government again in Minnesota. It's really, really important. And I'm going to bring in a new team. I just announced, um, my, uh, transition team today and also that, uh, we have, uh, uh, the a website, uh, GovKlobuchar, that people can submit their ideas, apply for jobs. We really want to, um, bring in a new team and, uh, make this work. So that's my focus. And, uh, they.

That's committed.

The I am I wouldn't have done this if I don't want to, uh, make change. And I made it really clear I'm not going to move our state to the left or to the right. I'm going to move our state forward. I also made clear, including at our in thank you, eight people, including at our very festive, uh, party last night because we had a lot to celebrate, including, by the way, uh, we, uh, switched the legislature, which had been one vote margin and then tied. I made it clear that I'm going to have to make decisions, um, that not everyone's going to agree with.

That's your job.

This is what I'm doing.

Would you would you someday like to be president?

I ran for president, but this is not in the cards right now. I'm doing this. This is exciting to me.

Okay. Scott, you.

You got to, like you we love our state. And so this is what I'm doing.

That's awesome.

So I did that once. It was a lot of fun. I got to debate Bernie Sanders. I mean, come on.

Yeah.

It was all good. And we had to and I think a lot of the ideas that I had put out there, um, some of them got done during the Biden administration. I think there's a number of things we can still get done. Um, and I believe that I can serve my country very well from here as governor of Minnesota.

Scott, you get the last question.

Thanks. Uh, we all struggle with so you're you're clearly an ambitious person, right? And that's a great thing. How do you what tips would you have as a partner, as a parent, as a daughter? How do you do you have any practices or learnings for how you balance we just all struggle with this. How you balance ambition and success with trying to be successful at home?

Mm-hmm.

There's just no getting around it. It injects stress into all your relationships.

Yeah.

What what advice would you have for for parents just starting out, just starting in a relationship and thinking, "Okay, I want influence and success, but at the same time, I want some harmony and a sense of self and healthy relationships."

Sure.

Do you have any hacks for managing that balance?

I think, first of all, you just have to have a moral core about what you want to do with your life, um, a sense of purpose. And you don't have to know everything. I've I've found that a lot with a lot of young people in our office. They're thinking this and this and this. You got to pick something you really want to do. And I always recommend if people are interested in government or in politics, you don't have to work on a presidential campaign. You can go work for a city council member that you like, or you can go work for a, um, volunteer with an organization.

Yeah.

Uh, that over time, you find a way with your spouse to make it work. Um, and my husband, he grew up he, uh, as I mentioned, in a trailer home. Um, I just his parents are both alive. They live in Mankato. Um, and they have, uh they had six boys. Well, my there were four boys in his family. He was the middle child, the third one. And she wanted to have a girl, so she got pregnant again. And she had identical twin boys. Um, that's her story. And so I think that that different background I had one sister, um, has made it work for us.

Yeah, but.

And we've been married over 30 years. So I we've decided to call him the first gentleman, even though it's kind of traditional, so we don't have that confusion.

Right.

About that.

You.

Because we've never had a first gentleman in Minnesota.

But a professor that writes books, that sounds very sexy.

Yeah. And it begs the question of whether you do have a second husband. I mean, um, all right. Uh, we've got to go now.

You have another card or?

No, we don't. No, no, no cards. Um, I want you to give one piece of advice to Donald Trump as you leave Washington. One piece.

Okay. Okay. My piece would be, stop thinking you're on HGTV, okay? Like, start acting like a president, which means you have to put the interests of the American people first. And now you're going to have this new Congress in town, and you better find a way to work with them and get something done. And that would be my advice. I think you may know that I because I was chair of the Rules Committee, as you're aware, including the incoming on January 6th.

All the.

Elon Musk.

Elon Musk, yeah.

Right? They were all standing there. You remember the photos. And I said, "It did not come from in that rotunda. The power came from the people, and last night they showed it."

Well, that.

That is my advice to him.

On that note, thank you, Governor-elect Klobuchar. We'll let you get back to work. Let's have another round of applause. All right. We need to take another quick break. When we come back, we'll get you some of the latest headlines.

Scott, we're back, recording live from the State Theater here in Minneapolis. Let's get to a few quick news stories. Uh, Wall Street loved the election results today. The Dow jumped more than 1,500 points, the best day of the year. Apple Apple and Microsoft hit all-time highs, with Apple topping $5 trillion. Oil plunged. Chip stocks like Nvidia fell on fears Democrats will slow down data centers. Um, and and the investors seemed to like it.

Well, the data center or the compute companies, uh, feel like there'll be more moratoriums. But the bigger story, and we talked about this earlier in the week, I I'm immediately I give myself an hour of joy, and then I immediately go to what could go wrong. And if you look at the people who swung hardest to blue, it was Hispanics. And hands down, the group that swung hardest to blue, uh, 18 to 29-year-olds went D plus 50 compared to 24.

He does think a lot about young men.

The we have to dispel the myth myth of the following. The Republicans have done this Houdini trick of associating the GOP brand, uh, with economic growth. And I went back and I added up all the GDP growth, the job growth, and the deficits of all 12 administrations since 1980, and I averaged it across Democratic and Republican. In sum, Republicans have added 1 million jobs a year, Democrats 2 million. Uh, GDP growth under Republicans has been 2.1% of GDP.

Mm-hmm.

"Oh, no. Democrats, full sweep. Tax and spend liberals, anti-business. The markets are going to crash." The Nasdaq and the the Russell were up 1.5%. The Dow was up 16.

Why? Why did it why why did it because they think what? What what is the overall market thinking?

Because the market says versus a the reality is, you could argue that GOP is pro-business. MAGA is pro-billionaire. And these deficits of $7 trillion in spending, uh, mostly on military and, uh, on tax cuts and on tax loopholes, the biggest corporate pork in the world is the $2.4 trillion in tax giveaways we give every year to corporations and the wealthy.

Right.

In sum, the ultimate neutral arbiter of what works economically and of geopolitics is related to oil has said this Blue Tsunami is good for the markets and good for the price of gasoline. And we have to maintain that momentum and show people, young people, and swing voters that Democrats, we're socially minded, we're empathetic, but we're the party of prosperity, we're the party of growth, we're the party that's going to put more money in your pocket.

That I think that I felt like it was saying, and it was I was as you know, I've been listening to the Yuval Harari Sapiens book, and one of the chapters at the end is about, uh, capitalism. Um, and one of one of the things that he noted through historical, especially recently, peace is lucrative. Um, war is not.

Yeah.

Is not. It really isn't, except for a very small group of weapons dealers or oil companies. It's not peace is a lucrative thing because of people spend, people feel better, they feel safer in their homes. And so I think probably the market thinks Democrats will stop this Iran nonsense or the Republicans will stop it. And you saw J.D. Vance, who suddenly realized the war in Iran was not a good thing today. Um, which is so funny watching them all kind of do these well, he's good at pretzel moves.

To be fair to be fair, supposedly.

Allegedly.

He was against it.

What?

To be fair, supposedly.

He was, but he didn't articulate it because he's the vice president. He leaked he leaked stuff all over the place to do so. But he.

All pieces.

Do what?

Well, first and least, Ron DeSantis.

Stop.

One thing I offer is you go to quins.com.

In the also in the Republican Party to stop this nonsense.

Yeah.

So, um, speaking of billionaires or trillionaires, I mean, he might not be one today. Uh, money cannot buy you love. It's also apparently can't buy you elections, as Elon Musk learned on Tuesday night. Uh, Elon poured nearly a half a billion dollars into the midterms. All he needed to see is candidates lose, notably his adopted home state of Texas. His reaction to the results, uh, besides trying to delete his tweets, which is like, "What in the fuck, dude? I've got all of them.

The well, there's we need to bifurcate. There's the man, and then there's the company.

Mm-hmm.

And there's just no shortage of states or countries that would love to have SpaceX or Tesla. I mean, that's the reality. We can be populist and angry at him, but SpaceX and Tesla are important companies. They're American companies. And so I think a lot of states would love to have those companies. I think a lot of states are calling Gwynne Shotwell. I mean, I think personally, I think the worst thing for the first time, Texas has gone all blue. And I.

Mm-hmm. Up and down. Up and down.

I mean, it said that, and I hate to be the dad boomer here. I think the worst thing they could do right now is start a populist movement against SpaceX because you want jobs. You want growth. I would like to see Elon Musk have the opportunity to say in front under oath what exactly happened in the throttling back of a technology.

Yeah.

Um.

That was a particular I would also like him to testify about what happened with Doge. And in Texas, I do think they should show scrutiny because apparently, Greg Abbott did a lot of sweetheart deals, and you've got to look at those.

I see a.

For accountability.

I see a distinction between the two because the president, in my opinion, is responsible for Doge. Now, someone who's the world's wealthiest man being involved and endorsing and making recommendations on things on pulling the HIV medication for HIV-positive mothers, I don't understand the reason literally the reason why you'd want to become the richest man in the world only to potentially be responsible for the most people's deaths. And this goes to a larger thing, I think, a lot about masculinity. One of the I we've been talking about this.

Well, I have a, um I have a suggestion. I think we need to let, uh, all those women of color who won in Georgia just run things. One. And I think all the women across the country need to maybe step up and be the role models that we actually need for both men and women. That's my feeling. But nonetheless, where is Elon going to go? What's he going to do now? He's going to suddenly he's he's deleted these tweets. He's some I'm waiting for a call.

What do you think?

I think he's going to call me. I do. And then I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to do the Amy Act, and I'm going to let it go to voicemail. Um, which to me was the single that's the single finest thing today. Amy Acting letting Vivek Ramaswamy's concession go to voicemail. And and you leave it in you you leave that man on read. That's what you do.

But I'm being I'm being serious. I was trying to think today, does he leave the country? Because he's going to be held in front of Congress.

Many times.

And I got to imagine his lawyers are going to have to prep him for about 30 days and say, "Okay, don't say this. You prudged yourself here." And if he gets a pardon, what's interesting is if he gets a pardon, there are a lot of legal scholars saying, "If you get a pardon, you can't take the fifth because you no longer need protection." In addition, even if you get a federal pardon, it doesn't pursue it doesn't prevent the state's AG from going after you. So I think there's a non-zero probability. I want to be clear. I don't think I don't think SpaceX or Tesla I hope they remain in America.

Where does he go?

I don't know.

Where does he go? Russia.

Oh, no. He won't need to do that. Look.

No.

I I understand the the sentiment.

No, but where? Seriously?

There are carry out there are so.

Malta? I don't know where.

There are so many nations that that would think we need that type of innovation and growth. Whether you believe it's good or not.

Yeah.

We would have no shortage of offers.

Yeah.

No shortage.

I don't know. We'll see. I mean, he's probably going to move to Florida. That's my guess.

And they would take him with open arms.

Uh, Florida someone in Florida said today they feel like because Florida stayed red, but it was close. Angie Nixon, we should give kudos to for the work.

She did a great job.

Um, they said.

We screwed up. I mean, the retrospect, we should have poured more money into that race.

In that race. She got clear.

We should have poured more money. We poured too much into these other races because we thought, "Oh, Talarico's got to fight off a half a billion dollars." All of these people, we spent too much money, quite frankly, given the results, because we just couldn't believe the actual polling. What's interesting or the more interesting question, I think, is I was thinking today, all right, Rubio and Vance, the likelihood they became the become the GOP nominees went down five or 10 points today.

Absolutely.

Because they have been infected. Well, folks, there's always another MAGA out there. Uh, and by the way, okay, Tucker Carlson. Um, but I I personally, I was trying to think, what there are about a dozen the Democrats right now have the 1992, uh, Olympic basketball dream team. You could go six deep right now and think, "Yeah, that guy could be president, or she could be president," or there are so the bench is so strong. Basically, the two people everyone thought would be the GOP nominee or most likely, Rubio and Vance, have gotten Ebola as of this point.

Yeah. But you saw you you saw today Nikki Haley was making a play.

What's interesting is what Republicans will ascend in the next two to three weeks. My bet is, and this won't go over well, I think DeSantis, you're going to hear his name a lot because he distanced himself from Trump.

I know.

I'm not saying who I want grow up. Um, but he basically he distanced himself from Trump. He's in a very popular he's in a state that is doing really well. He ran, so he has some infrastructure set up. I just think it's a very interesting question to think.

Oh, my. He's such a street.

Who will fill the vacuum of the Rubio and Vance infection as of this point?

I I who?

Oh, the white boots.

Oh, the white boots.

Come on.

Well, come on. The caucus and the helmet, it works. You're he's absolutely right. Um, I don't know, DeSantis. We'll see. We'll see. I think, you know, I always say that J.D. Vance has the charm of a Cybertruck. And I think just I think J.D. Vance is dead sexy compared to Ron DeSantis. So and J.D. Vance is not dead sexy. Anyway, we'll see what happens to Elon Musk. We'll be on pins and needles, and, uh, I'm excited for me to leave him on read in my, uh, cell phone.

And we're ready to take some audience questions. We love hearing from you. That said, keep the questions short so we can answer as many people as possible. So let's go.

It's often been said you really can't put too many, uh, uh, restrictions on pornography because you have to know it when you see it. Uh, when it comes to the blue wave tsunami, this overwhelming response, so many people have been saying, "We don't want retribution. We don't want vengeance, but we do want accountability."

Mm-hmm.

What would you say are good rules of depth reception on the difference between accountability and vengeance?

Uh, I'll answer that. I it's a really interesting thing because it's going on in the Democratic Party. They don't want they don't want to blow this, right? They don't want to just look like the anti-Trump party. And I think that's probably the thing. So a lot of them are talking about not, uh, impeaching Trump because what's the point? It would just make you feel better, and it doesn't do anything. And it it always seems to help him when he's the victim. That's one thing. And then to specifically go after criminal behavior, Kristi Noem would come to mind possibly about what happened. Uh, Pete Hegseth is another person.

Yeah.

He wasn't. It was like paintings. Come on. You can do better than that. Um, he's turned into such a strange, interesting celebrity too. Um, but, you know, I think go after real criminal behavior. And then I I think absolutely there should be congressional hearings and very significant investigations into what happened with Doge and the data. I just feel and and if it leads to Elon Musk, it leads to Elon Musk. But some I just interviewed, um, Michael Lewis about this in his book Blockers, and some of the act and these people who stopped what they were doing, the way they were doing it was it may not have been illegal, but it should it should be surfaced what these Musk rats did.

Hi. Uh, I'm Mark. Uh, welcome to Minneapolis. Thank you for coming.

Thank you.

Um, I wrote my question down so I wouldn't ramble too much.

Okay.

Um, so right, wrong, or indifferent, I've I've felt that, uh, Republicans have been pretty good at simplistic messaging that.

Yes.

I don't necessarily agree with it. Um, it's simplistic and it's sound bites. Um, and maybe that's been in the last 10 years, but, um, and it it hits their base in some independents well. What do you, uh, think of Democrats' message messaging historically compared to now? And I know I know the issues have driven a lot of where we saw success, but their messaging, what do you think of that? And do you have any predictions of what the message will be or should be, uh, going into 2028?

Like, Scott is more of an expert, but let me just say, I think they're getting amazing. I have to say, a lot of these Mamdani, El-Sayed, and the other day AOC went, "Not communism, common sense." And I thought, wow, that was a really you know, they're getting very good at it. Scott?

Yeah, we we need to be careful. We need to move from being the last thing we want is an impeachment sentimental tour. I I just think that's a disaster if we decide to fire those engines up again. The Democratic Party needs to move from being the party of indignance to ideas. And it's it's like we literally have to, within I think within 30 days, have to outline a bunch of, uh, proposals and let him let him veto them, but say, "All right, we need to move towards universal healthcare.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have to they have to be bold and they have to be willing to lose. Like, say things, pass things, and let's see if I don't think he's going to veto as much as you think. I think he's he knows. He's a he's a crocod an old crocodile, and I don't think he wants to go out. Well, he's going to go out fat and bloated, but, you know, I don't I think he does have a sense that he'll shift back because he has no values, and therefore he'll take whatever idea other people have, take credit for it.

Hey, um, my name is Dina. Thanks for coming, you guys. As soon as I saw the, uh, date of the show, right after the election, I was like, "Oh, I have to. They're going to have so much to say." Um, one of the things I'm most excited about for yesterday is as a Canadian, I was born and raised in Canada.

We love the Canadians.

Yes. Um, I am excited to have a Congress who is hopefully going to dispel this Canada as 51st state tariff. The hell.

That's done.

Crap. I'm so done with that. So I came here, Karen, from Canada to, um, Silicon Valley, and I think probably I was there right around the same time you were getting started as a reporter. And so, Scott, I I do love you, but this is for Kara. Um, so sexism obviously is still alive and well in tech, and it was even more so that way when I started my career. And my question for you is, what advice would you give to the young women who, like my daughter who just turned 18, are trying to make it in a world where sexism is still so alive and well?

Yeah.

Thought you were just little cute?

Nobody thought I was little and cute.

Well, okay.

Um, you know, I always used to say I'm always at a sausage party, and then I proceeded to have three sons. So, um, I have a daughter also. But, um, you know, it's actually worse than it was. There were many more women in higher positions of power like Susan Wojcicki, even for all up up or down. Sheryl Sandberg was a high-ranking Meg Whitman. There were lots and lots of women in relatively high positions. Now, if you go to look at one of those Trump dinners, it's all the dudes and their girlfriends, essentially.

Well, you know more about.

Biotech. Of course. Biotech and medicine.

Pharma. That's not tech. You know more about there's definitely.

mRNA vaccines, things like that.

There's definitely a a virus of of bohemian rhapsody in tech right now.

Right.

But the data across C-level executives is actually quite encouraging the last.

In tech?

Uh, no. C-level executives.

Yes. Other places. Yes.

Across the industry.

Yeah.

But to your point, it I'm going to stay away from this.

Okay. Okay. Uh, so we're going to end a bit on a serious note. Um, today, both Scott and I went to, uh, the place where Alex Pretti was shot. Um, and there was also this wonderful memoir to him and Renee Good. When federal agents killed them, uh, the two of them on the streets of Minneapolis, the people of the city did not look away, as Senator Klobuchar said and Governor-elect Klobuchar said. They showed up in subzero cold, filled the streets, and protected their neighbors. This was a great one of the great acts of democracy that I can see.

Yeah. Uh, we were we were talking about this, uh, and we, you know, you'll everyone has low moments, right? You have moments in your relationships, professionally, where you just think, "Oh, this is awful. This is like this couldn't this is just so bad." And if you're here, you care a lot about the country and and our nation and civics. I think we were here the last time we were here, we came here after the murders, and I felt and I think Kara also shared, I felt like that was literally a low moment in recent history where we had an ICU nurse and a mother of three murdered by by government officials.

Uh, I think we look great. You can catch selected shows from this tour on YouTube and in your podcast feeds that all we got for you tonight. You've got a wonderful audience. Scott, read us out.

Today's show is produced by Lauren Amon and Zoe Marcus Taylor, Given Earnings, and engineered this episode. Todd Wiseman edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Emil Saverio, and Dan Chalon, and Kay Gallagher. Live production support by Trish Hardeto, Kelly Schwanter, Cami Riek, and Grace Skepner. A big shout out to the Vox Experiential team, Tara Riley, Courtney Given, and Caitlin Burlaugh, and Nishat Karwaz, Vox Media's executive producer for podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymach.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.