Transcript of Jared Freid & Jordana Abraham: Dating App Burnout? Do THIS 30-Day Challenge to Stop Wasting Time and FINALLY Meet the Right Person

This is an iHeart podcast. Dating apps should be used in the same way that fast food is. I don't think you should say never, ever eat fast food. People have these black and white views towards the dating apps. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them. You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. There's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work, but it shouldn't be the only tool in their tool shed.

People are afraid to say, I'm just tired of them. People look at dating as on/off switch. It's just a part of your life. Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Join a fitness class. Go out to eat once a week without your phone. The app, we have to realize, is a crutch. We have to acknowledge who these apps were created for and by because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

The one, the only, Jay Shetty.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years. I've been on their show three times now, and I always have the best time with them. I felt like we hit it off immediately, and it's got more fun every time. So it is an honor to have them on the On Purpose studio. I'm talking about Jared Fried and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the hit Dating and Relationship podcast. You up. If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you go and do that. They break down the confusing, chaotic, and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with. Jared Jared is a stand-up comedian and writer. His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central. And Jordana is the co-founder of Betches, a digital media brand with a reach of over 40 million across platforms and a leading voice on dating, self-development, and modern relationships. Please welcome to On Purpose, Jordana and Jared.

Great to be here. Thank you so much. It's great to have you guys. We're so excited. What an intro. I mean, you do everything right. I'm just sitting here listening to your intro. I'm like, Man, He's nailing it. Got it down. Just has it down. Even when you introduce the podcast, this is the podcast for... You tell people what they're listening to. I'm like, I feel like I'm in a class. It's a real professional. Yeah, this is a pro.

We run a lot of podcasts. This is a professional.

This is a pro.

You guys are pros. The tables have turned today, though. I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable.

That's always my goal when you come on our show. I'm like, How can I get Jay Shetty?

You mess with him a little bit.

A little bit like I love it. You nail it. It's just always a surprise.

He always knows how to take your annoying questions and own them.

To own them and then you turn them. I've said this to many people. I don't want to take over your show.

You are doing that.

I'm doing that right now, and your audience is like, I hate this guy. He won't shut up. Let Jay do his thing. But I have to say what a great guy you are. Because I did this bit when you came on the show where I was like, Jay, can you give pep talks to people who are going through it? Then I I read this whole sad monolog about my life, and it wasn't me saying it was me, but I was joking. But sometimes sad stories are meant to be funny. And you took it and you were like, You are enough. And then I texted you later that day, You texted me first. Hey, man, had a great time. And just remember, You are enough. It's the sweetest text I have ever gotten in my entire... I want to make sure it's on camera on podcast because I can't...

He's like, They're going to cut this.

Get rid of that sappy shit. Let's talk about dating. Yeah, I just have to say, because sometimes you listen to people, you go, what are they like off camera? That's truly the nicest text I've ever gotten.

I'm going to send more of them now. Please.

It improved my whole day. Yeah, or month, whatever. I'm still talking about it.

The feeling is mutual. You guys have been so happy to have me on three times. We have the best time ever. And I love the side of me you bring out. I don't always get to show that. I don't always get to show that fun, playful, energetic side on my platform. So That's a part of me that I get to share with both of you. And so you give me an opportunity to do that. But let's dive in.

You always are game. That's the thing. And we appreciate that so much because we talk about dating and relationships, which is a very personal thing.

And that's what we want to talk about today. Because my audience, community, I've got groups of friends. I've got so many people who've written in. We've scoured the world to prepare for this podcast. But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating. You guys I know everything about it. You're doing it, Jared. Jordana, you're not doing it anymore, but there's a part of your life. What's your hot take on current dating? What's the take? What's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now that's different right now on dating?

I think the negativity that's out there right now, while it's founded, you can always be negative about dating, and you'll find a million people that will help you. You'll find a million people that will back you up and tell you how right for being negative about it, but it's the least helpful thing for your dating life. It's not the thing that's going to get you on the first date. It's not the thing that's going to make you a better dater. It's the only thing that you can find other people to cheer you on for that actually makes your dating life worse.

Wow, that's a good one. I like it. Yeah, 100% agree.

Because I do these dating pep talks all the time. It's a joke. It's pointing out that I heard a relationship and I heard this couple get in a fight, and then I talk about how lucky you are to be single. I point that out, and you see so many people that are just like, it's almost like crazy to me that they never thought of it. Being single is a good thing. You're hopeful. You're looking for to make your life better. I think all you hear about is maybe that you're doing it wrong or do this or do that. It's like, whatever you're doing is fine. You're you. It's going to work out. But I think the negativity that we see online, that's easy to do because it's like biting a mosquito bite, it feels pretty good, but it's not really helping you.

That's a great perspective. I was just talking to one of my producers. She's in a long distance relationship, and she was saying every night she goes home right now, she turns on her favorite show and she just bingewatches it. And all of our reaction was like, oh, okay. And she was like, I sit alone on the couch. And she was like, but actually, this is the last time I'm ever going to get to do this. So I'm loving it. That mindset of actually, oh, wow, this is the last time ever. It's just going to be me on my couch, bingewatching whichever show I want and looking at it positively rather than the negative of that. And I think that's... You're so right. And I want to dive into that. But I want to hear Jordana's first.

Yeah, I think going off of that, we talk about no one wants to hear diet and exercise for fitness or losing weight. But I totally agree with Jared. I think the diet and exercise of dating is really going into anything you're doing in the dating space with a good attitude and then having a full life outside of dating. So it's not the only thing that you're focused on. Because I do think attitude is 70% of it. I think it's such an underrated part. I think so many people think, if I just keep going on more dates, more is more, and I'm there, but I don't want to be there. I'm in a negative mindset. I'm on the app still. I'm so annoyed. I'm still on the apps. You go on the dates and you think you're actually trying, but you're bringing not a fun, exciting version of yourself that someone would want to date someone with a full life, someone who just thinks someone would add to their already great life, and you're expecting someone to fill in what's missing. I think that's really what holds people back, and they don't even realize they're doing it.

When you're holding back, more on that, just like when you're holding back and you're being negative, you're not being your full self. You're not even bringing people into your world. We're not this woo-woo podcast. We're not there telling... There's nothing more annoying than, cheer up from your married friend, Oh, You'll find it when you're not looking. It's like, goff. That's not advice. That's not helpful. But it's like, the minute you give in to like, I got this great life. I'm looking for someone to make it better. I'm not looking for just anyone. Then you start to have taste. That's something where people are so afraid to even admit. They go, I'm confused. That's what you hear from people dating. I'm confused. No, you're turned off. Change the wording. Now it's powerful. Now you have taste. Now Now you have ownership over like, oh, I do like and dislike things. I am looking for certain things in a partner. Living your full life. When you say, these are the things I do, you're willing to have someone go, I don't do that. And you can go, good, get out of here.

Yeah, I like that. So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now, where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps. You both hear it more than anyone, where every other person you speak to is just like, I'm sick of the air dating apps. I'm tired of the dating apps. I hear it all the time as well. How How do you then apply that to the fatigue around dating apps? So when people are saying to you, Hey, I'm exhausted, you're not saying, cheer up. What are you saying? I think dating apps should be used in the same way that fast food is. Tell me about it.

I don't think you should say, Never, ever eat fast food. It's going to ruin your life. And I think people have these black and white views towards the dating app. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the Internet, just like Instagram or TikTok. You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly. I think there's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work. But it shouldn't be the only tool in their tool shed. People are afraid to say, I'm just tired of them. People look at dating as on/off switch. It's just a part of your life. Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Join a fitness class. Go out to eat once a week without your phone. The app, we have to realize, is a crutch. We have to acknowledge who these apps were created for and by because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people.

You can do it. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years. I've been on their show three times now, and I always have the best time with them. I felt like we hit it off immediately, and it's got more fun every time. So it is an honor to have them on the On Purpose studio. I'm talking about Jared Reed and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the hit Dating and Relationship podcast, You Up. If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you go and do that. They break down the confusing, chaotic, and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with. Jared is a stand-up comedian and writer. His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central. And Jordana is the co-founder of Betches, a digital media brand with a reach of over 40 million across platforms and a leading voice on dating, self-development, and modern relationships.

Please welcome to On Purpose, Jordana and Jared. Great to be here. Thank you so much. Great to have you guys. We're so excited. What an intro. I mean, you do everything right. I'm just sitting here listening to your intro. I'm like, Man, he's nailing it. Got it down. Just has it down. Even when you introduce the podcast, this is the podcast for... You tell people what they're listening to. I'm like, I feel like I'm in a class. It's a real professional. Yeah, this is a pro. We run a lot of podcasts. This is a professional. This is a pro. You guys are pros. The tables have turned today, though. I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable. That's always my goal when you come on our show. I'm like, how can I get Jay Shetty? You mess with him a little bit. A little bit like... And you nail it. It's just always a surprise. He always knows how to take your annoying questions and own them. You own them and then you turn them. I've said this to many people. I don't want to take over your show. You are doing I'm doing that right now, and your audience is like, I hate this guy.

He won't shut up. Let Jay do his thing. But I have to say what a great guy you are. Because I did this bit when you came on the show where I was like, Jay, can you give pep talks to people who are going through it? And then I read this whole sad monolog about my life. And it wasn't me saying it was me, but I was joking. But sometimes sad stories are meant to be funny. And you took it and you were like, You are enough. And then I texted you later that day. You texted me first. Hey, man, had a great time. And just remember, you are enough. It's the sweetest text I have ever gotten in my entire... I want to make sure it's on camera on podcast because I can't... He's like, They're going to cut this. Right. Get rid of that sappy shit. Let's talk about dating. Yeah, I just have to say, because sometimes you listen to people, you go, What are they like off camera? That's truly the nicest text I've ever gotten. I'm going to send more of them now. Please. It I've been on the move my whole day.

Yeah, or month, whatever. I'm still talking about it. The feeling's mutual. You guys have been so happy to have me on three times. We have the best time ever. And I love the side of me you bring out. I don't always get to show that. I don't always get to show that fun, playful, energetic side on my platform. So that's a part of me that I get to share with both of you. And so you give me an opportunity to do that. But let's. You always are game. That's the thing. And we appreciate that so much because we talk about dating and relationships, which is a very personal thing. And That's what we want to talk about today, because my audience, community, I've got groups of friends. I've got so many people who've written in. We've scoured the world to prepare for this podcast. But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating. You guys know everything about it. You're doing it, Jared. Jordana, you're not doing it anymore, but there's a part of your life. What's your hot take on current dating? What's the take? What's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now that's different right now on dating?

I think the negativity that's out there right now, while it's founded, you can always be negative about dating, and you'll find a million people that will help you. You'll find a million people that will back you up and tell you how right you are for being negative about it, but it's the least helpful thing for your dating life. It's not the thing that's going to get you on the first date. It's not the thing that's going to make you a better dater. It's the only thing that you can find other people to cheer you on for that actually makes your dating That's a good one. I like it. Yeah, 100% agree. Because I do these dating pep talks all the time. It's a joke. It's a pointing out that I heard a relationship and I heard this couple get in a fight, and then I talk about how lucky you are to be single. I point that out. You see so many people that are just like, it's almost like crazy to me that they never thought of it. Being single is a good thing. You're hopeful. You're looking to make your life better. I I think all you hear about is maybe that you're doing it wrong or do this or do that.

It's like, whatever you're doing is fine. You're you. It's going to work out. But I think the negativity that we see online, that's easy to do because it's like biting a mosquito bite. It feels pretty good, but it's not really helping you. That's a great perspective. I was just talking to one of my producers. She's in a long distance relationship, and she was saying every night she goes home right now, she turns on her favorite show and she just binge watches it. And all of our reaction was like, oh, okay. And she was like, I sit alone on the couch. And she was like, but actually, this is the last time I'm ever going to get to do this. So I'm loving it. That mindset of actually, oh, wow, this is the last time ever. It's just going to be me on my couch, binge watching whichever show I want and looking at it positively rather than the negative of that. And I think you're so right. And I want to dive into that. But I want to hear Jordana's first. Yeah, I think going off of that, we talk about no one wants to hear diet and exercise for fitness or losing But I totally agree with Jared.

I think the diet and exercise of dating is really going into anything you're doing in the dating space with a good attitude and then having a full life outside of dating. So it's not the only thing that you're focused on, because I do think attitude is 70% of it. I think it's such an underrated part. I think so many people think, if I just keep going on more dates, more is more, and I'm there, but I don't want to be there. I'm in a negative mindset. I'm on the app still. I'm so annoyed. I'm still on the apps. You go on the dates and you think you're actually trying, but you're bringing not a fun, exciting version of yourself that someone would want to date someone with a full life, someone who just thinks someone would add to their already great life. And you're expecting someone to fill in what's missing. And I think that's really what holds people back, and they don't even realize they're doing it. And when you're holding back, more on that, just like when you're holding back and you're being negative, you're not being your full self. So you're not even bringing people into your world.

We're not this like, woo-woo podcast. We're not there telling... There's nothing more annoying than, cheer up from your married friend. Oh, you'll find it when you're not looking. It's like, goff. That's not advice. That's not helpful. But it's like, the minute you give in to, I got this great life. I'm looking for someone to make it better. I'm not looking for just anyone. Then you start to have taste. That's something where people are so afraid to even admit. They go, I'm confused. That's what you hear from people dating. I'm confused. No, you're turned off. Change the wording. Now it's powerful. Now you have taste. Now you have ownership over like, Oh, I do like and dislike things. I am looking for certain things in a partner. Living your full life, when you say, These are the things I do, you're willing to have someone go, I don't do that. You can go, Good, get out of here. Yeah, I like that. So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now, where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps. You both hear it more than anyone, where every other person you speak to is just like, I'm sick of the dating apps.

I'm tired of the dating apps. I hear it all the time as well. How do you then apply that to the fatigue around dating apps? So when people are saying to you, Hey, I'm exhausted, you're not saying, cheer up. What are you saying? I think dating apps should be used in the same way that fast food is. Tell me about it. I don't think you should say never, ever eat fast food. It's going to ruin your life. And I think people have these black and white views towards the dating app. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the Internet, just like Instagram or TikTok. You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly. I think there's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work. But it shouldn't be the only tool in their tool shed. Because just like with fast food, if you eat it all the time, you're going to feel sick.

If you eat it on a road trip every now and then, that's fine. You're an indulgent, have a great time, but don't make that your entire lifestyle.

Yeah. And we have to acknowledge that. I think people are afraid to say, I'm just tired of them. You hear that, but if you went to McDonald's every day, if you went to fast food every day, and someone was like, Yeah, I've eaten fast food every day for the last week. I'm tired of it. You would go, Yeah, you should take some time off of that. We wouldn't look at that person and go, Well, you're not trying. You're not going for fast food. People look at dating as this on/off switch. It's just a part of your life. I don't know. Right now, we've said on the podcast, we're doing a summer challenge. Okay. Here's the summer challenge. Delete the apps. You're doing it, too. I'm doing it, too. I'm single. You're deleting all the apps. I deleted all the apps. Okay. This is for June, July, August.

And how many apps is that for you?

17? No. I was on one app at the time, deleted it. June, July, August. That's the promise.

And then what's your plan?

The plan is hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Make one plan a month with Jordana and her husband, my brother and his wife. Make a plan with someone who's married or in a relationship. Then join a fitness class. Do something Do a different fitness class, whatever it is. Go out to eat once a week, every Wednesday without your phone. On your own. On your own. Put in your pocket. Put your phone in your pocket. Look up. Because we're addicted to these things. The app, we have to realize, is a crutch. It was made by male nerds to try and be social. If you think about it, the app, you never get dumped on an app. You never get broken up with. You never hear a no. It's swipe left, that's a no from you. Swipe right, you either get a match right away or you get nothing. When you get nothing, what does your brain go? Guess they haven't seen me yet. That was invented by someone who didn't want to go up to someone in public and experience public failure. That's good. We have to acknowledge who these apps were created for and by because they're not for you.

Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it. But sometimes we need to create these little games like we're doing with this challenge to get yourself out because the phone is so addictive. I go to dinner on a Wednesday, I sit at the bar and I look up. That's it. I'm not promising you a boyfriend. That's what I've been going, by the way.

That's interesting. Great.

I have conversations, I have stories, I have experiences. Is hanging out with your married friends, that's the answer. I speak from the guy perspective on the podcast, of course, but I speak for myself. We talked about not saying this anymore, but we're not experts, okay? No one's a dating expert. I'm just an expert in my own feelings and my own experiences. When I talk on the show, I was thinking of, we have so many women, their response to hang out with their married friends is like, they don't know anybody. My friend's husband, they don't know any of their friends. They never have a guy for me. It's like, first of all, don't hang out with your married friends to get something from it. Hang out with your married friends to hang with them and have a good time and be you. If you do that, what All you want from that experience is for the husband to go, Oh, yeah, Jessica's pretty cool. That's all you want. Why does Coca-Cola still have ads? So you think of Coca-Cola the first drink when you need a soda. That's such a good point. Same thing. You want to make yourself Coca-Cola's to your married friends because that husband does know people.

He is talking, but we don't care about dating and relationships. That's why men don't listen to our podcast.

Right now, you're RC Cola, right?

Right. They're going, Oh, I guess I haven't thought of them lately. But if you make yourself the first thought in their brain when cool check comes up, because it's going to happen. But that's the thing. So when I hang out with my brother and his wife, and I'm doing that with his wife, but my brother is my brother. But if I go hang out with Jordana and her husband, he comes across. I'm the first thought on it. We'll see. I think- The first person he's thinking about every day. And these are the things that don't go viral on there. You know that. That's a great point. Negativity goes viral. Salacious stories go viral. Not, Hey, go out with your married friends.

We're going to make you go viral.

It's like lose ties, right?

Right, lose ties. Who do we get that from?

Meg something. Sorry. We got our last name.

But our podcast, we've just collected all these experiences. We hear the voices of so many people and how they're going through it. I'm not doubting that. It's hard. But that's also the fatigue element. Dating apps just get you more, not better, more. It's more intros, which are good, more breakups, more disappointment, more conversations. If you had more conversations a day, you're going to find more annoying people a day. So of course, you're going to have more stories that are negative. So the fatigue is really the numbers of it all.

Yeah, I can't remember the exact math, but Tim Ferrace had broken it down. He was like, for every hundred people, there's five narcissists, one psychopath. And so when you have a million followers, you're going to have the same percentage of narcissists, psychopaths. It's the same on a dating app.

I think I use Sweet and Low in my coffee. It's the strongest sweetener. Everyone's going to tell me that I'm going to have a heart attack and I'm going to die. I'm okay with that. For a sweeter coffee, I'm okay. But dating apps are like Sweet and Low. It's really going to hit you. Going to a bar and trying to meet someone new is like putting sugar in your drink. You're going to need a lot more sugar.

But it's going to be a better quality drink. And you said this, it's like, no, you don't need dating app in the summer.

No. You don't need it in the summer. You are out in the summer. You're taking vacations in the summer. You're hanging with friends in the summer. Yeah.

Hence, you're doing the challenge now.

That's why I'm doing the What's the complete challenge?

Lay it out again so that everyone else can do it.

The summer dating challenge is delete the apps, just get off them. We'll come back in September.

Yes. It doesn't have to be forever.

No, it doesn't have to be forever.

I want to say you can never eat McDonald's.

It's the end of the season. You got to wait for the next season.

Wait for the next season. See how it goes. We've tried the apps, you hate them. So let's try something new. Go to dinner once a week by yourself, phone in pocket. Don't take out your phone. Make it a challenge to yourself. Go to a new fitness class just because that gets you out and and doing something new. Hang out with your married friend and their husband, married friend and their wife once a month. Make a plan. It doesn't have to be a vacation. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. Just hang out with them and have a good time. I do think the feedback I'm going to give is like, if you come to me and go, Well, I didn't work. I think you've looked at it the wrong way. And we're on a wellness podcast. We can think of the intrinsic value of hanging out with your friends. I hope the listenership can understand that. For sure. Because with dating, some people go, Where's my boyfriend? And I go, You don't sound like someone I would ever want to date.

Well, then again, at the end of the challenge, you go back on the apps and you're a more invigorated, more energized Especially yourself who's not saying- It's the fast food example, which I love. Who's not saying, Hey, as their opening line, because you're putting more energy into the interactions that you are having.

Yeah, I do that once a week. Once every two weeks, I have mentally I've really been so disciplined and focused on work, working out, eating right, all the rest of it, that I need a day where I don't care. And so usually Saturday night is that day. I have no idea how this place I don't want to get them sued, but I don't know. I have no idea how this place exists. There's this place in LA called Mr. Charlie's. It is vegan McDonald's. When you go outside, it looks like McDonald's. They have an upside down frown. They have a smiley face. That's so funny. From the outside, it's yellow and red. It literally looks like McDonald's. I, as someone who grew up going to McDonald's, but now I'm vegan, I don't eat meat, have been searching for vegan McDonald's my whole life. I've now found it. And the fries taste the same, the chicken nuggets taste the same, the mayo tastes the same, the lettuce tastes the same. So Saturday, usually once every two weeks, I will eat chicken nuggets, fries, burger, whatever it is. But it's that feeling of, come Monday morning, I'm reinvigorated to work out again.

Exactly, yeah. I'm reinvigorated to have my discipline again because I've allowed my this space to go there.

Yes. And you probably enjoy it so much more than if you had it. If you had it every day, you wouldn't feel great.

Yeah, exactly. One thing I've been getting a lot, though, and this comes from the point that Jared was talking about. Right now, I have so many single female friends that I think are amazing that I'd love to introduce to good men. It's hitting me right now that I've not thought of Jared before, so now I need to change that up. And I'm like, I've got it. I'm like, You weren't a friend of mine. You weren't at Coca-Cola for me. You didn't come hang out with your married friend.

I've messed up.

But I feel like I have at least, let me think, I have at least three to five female friends who I think are awesome, genuinely think are awesome. They're the, Oh, yeah, she's really cool. They're smart, they're thoughtful, they're beautiful, all the rest of it. And I actually struggled to think of single men I know. And I'm not saying that they're not good men out there. I'm saying, I don't know many single men. As a married man, I think most of my friends are married or in long term committed relationships, and they're just struggling out there as well. What are you seeing from a woman's perspective? Because to a lot of them, what they're experiencing is we're strong, confident, ambitious women, and a lot of men are intimidated by that.

Yes. I think this is a conversation where I'm seeing all over the place now. I think it feels like a very hot topic now to look at the available single women. I totally agree with you. I know so many amazing single women. I really don't know that many. I only know one amazing single guy. No, I really don't know that many otherwise. I do think part of it is women are much more likely to want to date men who have the same education level as them or higher or make the same amount of money as them as higher or higher. I think men are not necessarily looking for that. I think there's a bigger pool for men of women that they're be interested in. I do think women... I don't like the term dating up or dating... But I think when you just look at objective things like education or money, a lot of women don't want to date people who are less educated or have less money than them.

To add on to this, I'm sorry to interrupt. The men go by one thing. Am I attracted?

Yeah.

That's it. That's the checklist. That means that could be... That's infinite. What you're talking about is a checklist that women do. Are they safe? Are they educated? They have the ability to... Are they a hard worker? Are they a good dad? These are all things that they're thinking about, even on the app.

There's fewer, I think, men who meet that criteria for women who are maybe, I don't want to say more selective, but We're just looking at things in a different way. I think as opposed to how things were 20 or 50 years ago, more women are college-educated than men, women are making more money than they ever have before. I think the pool, especially as you get older, of men who are at your level or higher, if that's what you're looking for in terms of those things, is just smaller. I think it just becomes a numbers game. I don't know if the solution is for people to be more open-minded or if the solution is... You know what I mean? Because I think there's still a little bit of a double standard around a man who makes less money than his wife or a man that has less education than his wife. I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open-minded in both directions.

Yeah. I think also, we do this all the time. We've talked about this. Where are the single men? You just said it. I've said this a million times. I don't know, even as a single man. I'm a man.

I'm not a single guy for you.

I don't even know where they would be. It's become a joke on the show of, Where are these guys? Because if there's all these women, but also this dating and relationships is a topic for women. They get together to talk about this. This is something that men just don't generally get it together and talk about. So it might not as in the atmosphere for me.

To that level, right. I think dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women. Just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from 21 years old is what their future is and who their husband is going to be and what they're getting. I don't think men are given that pressure. If a man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job, he's asked about what's going on at work. He's not necessarily, most of the time, being asked about who he's dating. I think that's question that women are getting a lot more and that they're much more invested in finding a partner than a lot of men are, at least men in a similar age group.

So wait, Jared, you're saying you don't have lots of single guy friends?

No, not at all. That's the thing. I'm not rolling with a group. When you hear a woman get broken up with, the first thing that a lot of their friends do, they're like, I know these other single women. They'll try and fix them up with single women to go out with. They're like their new Miranda, Carrie, Samantha crew. I've never even heard of that for a guy. Like, Oh, you got to meet my other guy friend. Even you were like, Hey, because I moved to Delray Beach. I'm in Florida. Jordana was like, Oh, my friends live down there. Do you want to hang out? Do you want a new friend? I was like, No, I don't want a friend. I want to go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun. I don't want... It's weird because that's my initial reaction. Where are all the- Of course, I want friends.

Where are all the friendless men?

But I have friends, but I swear, I got friends.

I sound very defensive. But I don't know. I've thought about this. It is the one thing where I'm like, the numbers aren't this off. But I don't know because even my college friends, mostly married, a couple of divorces in their high school friends. I got a lot of those still, mostly married. But I don't really... I'm 40, I'm single, and we just don't hear from... I I know I'm not alone.

I was talking to a couple of guys I know who are probably late days, early 40s as well. And they were single, and I sent them a couple of pictures of certain girls that I know that are friends of mine that are looking and all that stuff. And it was immediately, it was the point that you said, immediately he was like, No, she's not. Not for me. Not for me. And it was an attraction thing. But it was so instant.

Whereas a woman will say, Tell me more about him. Totally.

And it was also I wouldn't necessarily say that he was out of her league. He just felt he had more choice.

Listen, well, I'll go back at that.

That's a good thing to unpack.

Let's talk about it.

Because I don't think that's why men are saying, I have all these choices.

Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now, back to the discussion.

I think that's something that's easy to put on single men, to hate on them. No, so I'm asking. I would say that... I mean, I've said this on the show many... Guys, there's a pro and con. Life is gravity, right? The thing is a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to you.

That's just no.

No other questions.

Just like your friend. Is it that black and white?

It's that black and white.

I'm saying attracted or not, or is it like she's...

I don't know. No, it is. Men are like be. We see the outline of a woman. We go, Yeah. The idea of, will it matter if I wear these types of socks? No, men don't even notice. We just see, I'm attracted to that thing. When a guy says he's not attracted, not going, that's a good thing because all women can understand that if you're on a date with a guy, if you left the house, you know one thing, he's attracted you. That's a beautiful thing, too. If you think of it that way, you go, I got one thing out of the way. If I'm on a date with a girl, I don't know why she's there. I don't know if she was She thought she should. If she didn't go, she's not trying. That's a great way of looking at it. I don't know. I don't know if I could get married to a woman, then on our wedding day, she's like, At first, I didn't think he was anything. I wasn't even- Is that nice?

You can get a foot in the door. Right.

Well, it's nice and it's bad. I don't want to hear that my wife at first was like, oh. But that happens. Look at the Our Story page for all these women getting married. It's, Well, at first, I wasn't into him. And then he came over to me and he touched me with his clammy hands. And I was like, Oh, I guess maybe I'll go on a date. It's all this horrific tale about how this guy magooed his way into this woman. And it's like, that's nice for her. That's a fun Marvel story to tell your beginning.

But like- Well, I think women are also more like, I can work with this. Right. Even if someone is not... I think women are more open to dating men who aren't exactly the perfect way that they want them to be as soon as they meet them.

I can change what they wear I can- Well, yeah, they can work with this or they cannot.

I don't think men are thinking that. In some ways, that makes men more romantic. They're like, If I don't like you just as you are, I'm not going to commit to you. And women are like, If I like the bones, I can work with them.

Well, it's that age-old idea of men don't want women to change, but they will, and women want men to change, but they won't. Exactly. It's that balance of like- Right.

We always hear about the Disney Princess, or how the Disney movies convince women they're going to find a prince charming. And that is very true. There's a male version of that where men have been told in every coming-of-age movie that this woman is just going to show up, and she's into video games and she's cool and she gets it. Every coming of age movie is some chick who's giving guys crap. She's this dream version, and you're told... And this guy I falls in love. So you're told that someone's going to come along, all of a sudden you're going to get it and you're going to want this monogamous lifestyle. I don't think either is fair. But the looks thing, everyone has a type. Everyone's into something. There's a butt for every seat. I always say this sounds gross, but everyone's someone's foot. There's men out there masturbating to feet. There's so many men masturbating to feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet. So you are someone's foot. So ugly is not even... Hot or attractive is not even a thing.

Right. But I'm saying I don't think that it's... I don't think the key to doing well in dating is being hot. I think it is really about your attitude and, again, how happy you are. I think a happy person and, again, no matter what you look like, there's going to be someone who's attracted to you. But I think if someone could be attracted to you physically and you could on the date and you bring a bad attitude and you seem unhappy with your life and you seem unhappy and you seem like you're burnt out just from being there and your feeling is like, Oh, he's not even going to text me again. I think that that is self-sabotaging.

But you feel that. Listen, Jordana took my disgusting speech and made it sound a lot better. I can translate. You feel that on a date. I've been on dates with women who are the I've had it woman. Then you got to turn into a clown. You got to be like, No, No, got your ear, got your nose. You have to try and make them, cheer them up a little bit to go, Hey, we're going to be on a date that's not going to be disgusting and horrible. You can feel when someone's like, I've seen it all. It's hard to get out of it.

And even if you feel you have, the point is to have the attitude that you're talking about. Even if you have been in the work.

And you can't tell someone to do that. We can talk about it for days, but you got to figure that out.

Well, I think the challenge is, going back to the The part about being attractive, we think being attractive means being attractive to everyone. We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot. And the reality is no one feels that way because not everyone's going to find you attractive. No matter wherever you are on the spectrum of it or however you feel about it, it's the fact that if someone can go out there, be confident, put the best version of themselves out there, you're giving the person who actually finds you attractive the chance to do that. We've all met people who are attractive that turned us off with their attitude. Totally. That's massive.

I think we've met people that were maybe borderline attracted to, but are seem so happy and so confident and so happy to be there that it makes them more attractive. I think you can't really quantify that, but I'm sure it could sway you, too. Someone who you're-Attitude because attitude is everything.

You get there and you're like, oh, my God. Again, to go back to the Coming of Age movie, the Chick Who Gets It. You go, oh, my God, and she's cool and is fun and You go, Oh, my God, everything's here, as opposed to being on a date where it's like, Okay, show me you're not a dick. You're like, Okay, I've seen this before. I'm not going to be the one that... Because what happens is if someone's miserable on a date, you're like, If I do make this person happier, now I've made promises to them. Now I've love bombed them. And not even. I'm not saying you do that to cheer them up, but you go, Now you've put on a performance I'm performing. I'm not even getting to be the real me here because I was just spending the whole time trying to get this person to be happy, and now I've faked it.

Yeah.

I'm just going to say, I think that also that attitude thing also helps you once you're in a relationship. I think everyone thinks like, okay, once I lock it down, then it's over. But relationships are their own level of work. I think the best relationship advice I've ever seen is that if you look for what's missing from your partner, if you look for what they're not doing, what they could be doing more of, that's I think they're going to be the reality that you're living in. If you're looking at what they're doing well, what they do better than everyone else, you're going to feel really lucky and you're going to feel really happy. So I think attitude just brings you not even when you're just single, but once you're in the relationship, once you're working through that, once you're changing into a relationship that's a long term marriage or just a long-term relationship, I think the attitude is something you really need to keep working on and always be trying to be in a place of looking for what's working and looking for what's good, whether it's your own life or your partner.

And I think this alpha male, high value woman conversation on TikTok, Instagram, podcast has put this pressure for women to think you've got to look like a model. You've got to look great in these clothes, without clothes, whatever. There's that pressure for women. And the pressure on men is, you better be earning multiple six figures. You better drive an amazing car. You better have a great future. And everyone's looking at both of those things going, I can't live up to either of them. Do you see Well, the beauty of being a man is that I don't think, and this is where I feel lucky, is that when it comes to dating, maybe I'm not making that money, but I don't think I have to do the right thing by other men.

I never feel judged by other men for how I date. I think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, Am I doing it right? Is this the right text? Is this the right way to go? It's almost like, Who are you asking? Who's to say? I think when it comes to those conversations of who we answer to, I don't feel the pressure with relationships. I can feel it from the other side of like, Hey, what should I wear for a first date? When we get that question, they're asking us as if we know we're talking. It's like, What should we wear for the date?

What do you say?

Whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident. That's, again, what Jordana said, the diet and exercise of answers. No one wants to hear that. Well, But you have women that write in about this and you're like, that comes from a place of like, please tell me I'm doing this right.

People want rules. People want the secret sauce, the formula. And really, it's about you and what works for you. And that's, again, a less flashy answer. But that's the truth. There's no one way that everyone should act. There's no one person that everyone should be interested in. It's about what makes you the best version of yourself and everyone is a different person.

Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, That person is screwed. Awful. There's awful and screwed. They're thinking of the wrong thing.

They're thinking of the internet, I think. That's the issue, I think, with modern dating. It's why it's so hard to appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're scrolling all the time and you're seeing someone else's partner. I think of the pooky and jet thing. Someone else's partner surprise them with this bag or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates. You look at your partner and you're like, Where's my crazy date? Where's my spontaneous surprise trip? I think that, again, you're not even thinking about, Is that even something I want? Is that even something that works for me? You're just constantly comparing. Before, you really didn't get that. You didn't get the behind the scenes of every single couple's highlights of the best moments that they have together. No one's putting their fights up. No one's putting the stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet. So you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post, and then you go through the back That's so true. At the back.

Yeah, it's almost like 25 years ago, you spoke to less people. You knew them really deeply. And today, you are exposed to more people, but you know them in a really shallow surface way. And so if you had four friends, you knew who was on the verge of divorce, who was having a tough time because you all opened up and you were helping each other out with their problems. Whereas today, you're seeing someone who just took that trip for content. It wasn't even a trip. It was content. And they went away and they got this sponsored trip. And now it's like, Oh, that husband does spontaneous stuff or whatever it may be. Right.

And you think there's something lacking in your relationship when there's not. Again, you're only seeing this one side of it, and you don't really know these people that well.

You're talking about messaging there and people asking you What messages should we write? How much are you hearing about people getting ChatGPT to write their messages back? And how are you both feeling about it?

More and more. It's funny because, again, this goes back to, I want to be right. I don't want to do this wrong. So let me go to ChatGPT, and it will tell me an answer that I don't have to think about it anymore.

Well, listen, I think that there's some merit in ChatGPT as a tool, like anything else. I don't think you should use it, not even read it and send it. But I think it's like we did an episode where we did someone writes in their breakup text. They're texting someone after three days to say they're not interested. And then we have Chad GBT write the same text. Chad GBT is better.

Not a bad job.

It's a little more mature. It's a little Well, is it as personal? Probably not. I think you should edit their thing. But I think if it can help people act like a nicer, better member of society, or at least give them somewhere to start, I'm okay with it.

You're a fan of it for breakups.

I wouldn't want to be told to ask for a divorce with ChatGPT, but I think if they read the first draft and then someone else edited it, I mean...

Well, the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of ChatGPT from the minute dating apps started. Listen, when you're texting, you are writing your script. You are being the person you would like to be. That's not you on the fly. That's not you on improv or in the moment. How many times have you been in a conversation or an argument, then you went home and you go, I wish I'd said that, I wish I'd said this. You never do that about a text. In a text, you go, you say exactly how you want to say it, the way you want to say it. The reality is, in our podcast, we always say, We want to make you a better buyer. We're not going to fix dating. I get put in the position of speaking for men, and it sounds very icky. I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling because I'm 10% away from the guy you're dating. So I'm telling you what's going on in his head. It's up to you to take that information and do the best you can and waste less time. So this goes to the texting and ChatGPT and listen, if you want to blame ChatGPT for your relationship problems, you're fucked.

It's just the truth. Because right now you're texting with someone who's googling the movie that you said you loved.

Yeah, or the quote that you said that they didn't fully understand. Right.

They've been doing that since day one. Send me a movie quote that makes you laugh every time. If you had none off the top of your head, but you thought they were hot, I'll go find a movie quote. That's just how it's going. So all this is to say, ChatGPT or someone googling what to text you. You got to get in person. You got to have a date.

It's like the same advice that we have for the apps. It's like the apps and ChatGPT, they're both tools. Should you be exclusively communicating with ChatGPT? Should you be exclusively only dating on the apps? No. Is it something you can use when it makes sense? Yeah. Or at least to help.

How quickly have you realistically seen people move from the apps to an in-person date? How quick do you like it to be and how quick is it realistically?

I hate when someone's trying to game the app. So if someone matches with me and they go, Let's skip the small talk and go on a date. I don't want to date that person.

That's my-Because?

Because I don't want to waste my time out. We're on a dating app because that gets you the first few conversations that make you excited for the day. You're trying to skip that. It's verifying. It's a verifying process. But when people say that, I'm like, What's the catch here? This was so easy for you to go out. How much do you value your day? You don't value your day? Why would I want to go out with you? But the problem is someone always is going to come in and go, Well, I hate pen pals. But that's not a good answer. The answer is nuanced and gray. If you're texting for six days before a plan is made, yeah, that's too long for me.

That's too long for you, right?

For me. But I don't know what someone needs to feel If you feel safe, I don't know what someone needs to feel excited. You should feel safe and excited. That's the two rules I would give to someone to go on a first date. Do you feel safe? Are you excited?

Yeah. And so however long that takes. How long does that take?

That's not up to me to say.

That person saw you and felt safe and excited in that moment. Or they wanted to screw me over and steal my identity. I don't know. You felt safe and excited, but not you.

Can you pay for my oil change? We've gotten that. We've gotten that. Really? We got messages where the guy says, I'm so excited. I had such a great time. I'd love to go out again. And then the woman replies, Me, too. Would you mind paying for my oil change?

You're going to meet crazies. Like, This is what happens. You put yourself out there. You got to play in traffic. You don't want to get hit. Sometimes you get hit by a weirdo.

But that's a good story. You've lived.

Exactly. It's a great story. It's a great story to tell.

Dating, the idea of when should you, how should you? We are not here to say. I think that if anyone's trying to tell you there are four rules for dating or you should never this, I think they're trying to sell a book. We did this to make light and have fun about a subject that dating for some people, they're killing it everywhere else, and this is the hardest thing in their life. That's crazy. When I first started talking about dating as a guy, I didn't realize the gravity of it for some people. For me, it was always fun. I mean, that should tell every woman out there. Every guy is like, they just think it's fun. They don't think it's as serious as maybe you're coming at it. This isn't every conversation they're having. This isn't podcasts they're listening to. Again, when I first started doing this, you go, Oh, this is hilarious. Oh, let me hear your dating problems. Then you start meeting people and you're like, Oh, shit. This is real stuff. They're doing great in their career, their friends, their family. Then they're like, What the fuck? Yeah, what's What's going on here?

How is this happening?

Jordana, how are you feeling about Jared's dating life? How am I feeling? What's my problem?

No, maybe not a problem.

Jared, I mean, like a lot of the men out there that we talked about earlier, has a lot of options. Sometimes I think that's almost a lot of the issue with today's dating world is that- Especially for men. Yeah, especially for men who aren't-Successful men. Right. Successful high-value men. No, I'm joking, but I'm not.

I'd like to be doing better. Please follow me on Instagram. I'd like to be doing better.

No, I think people don't want to talk about this because it feels icky and it feels unfair. But I think that women are a lot of the time they're constrained by one, societal norms of that they should be. They're more pressured to settle down earlier. And two, biological realities is that in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children. I think that there is a freedom that men have where they're not constantly thinking about dating against that time frame. Again, it feels like in a key conversation, it feels like something that shouldn't be true, but it is true. I think that men do have more options in a lot of ways, especially if you're doing well in your career and you're in a city like New York, let's Okay. And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed by choice.

And men will end things before the next step. Men will go, This is okay, but I don't know if I want to go through the work. I'll say men, me. I'll speak for myself. I have ended things before the next step because I'm like, Am I ready for this next phase of life? It's not about the relationship. It's about, do I want to do the work? Do I want the responsibility? I have a lot of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships. That takes a lot of confidence. It takes a lot of stress and work that I have gone against. I've said, Well, I'm going to put my life into stand up and comedy and my work, which is an easy excuse for me. It's my avoidance of this next thing of life that first few months of dating, you're all potential. You get past that, you're living in the reality of who you are. I think that's what a lot of men deal with is I'd rather be potential than the reality and deal with the reality.

Is it the reality or is it then commitment?

Commitment is reality. I think it's commitment to the broader thing. To me, when I think of the next step in a relationship, I'm like, it's everything. It's house, it's family, it's kids. It gets way farther ahead than maybe women think we're thinking.

I hear you on that. That resonates with me. It's one of the reasons why we haven't had kids yet was because I was excited to be with my wife to get married. But my career took over and then my wife's career took over. So it's weird how you can have that at different phases. I can relate to what you're saying on the children level. We're like, I want to have kids for sure. But we've been together now for 12 years and married for nine. And for me, the focus was I'm getting to build and I'm doing what I love. And I don't want to end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to this young, beautiful child that I brought into the world. And I'll do it when I can. And I feel like that feels like a very masculine trait. And so you're feeling the same. The way you're talking, I'm like, I can relate to everything you're saying. It's just I'm married. I've taken on that commitment. I feel good about that one.

And we're around the same age. I think there's good and bad everything, as we said before. Our parents that may have gotten married young, you go, Well, I would never do that for me. And they had kids young. And then we were given the ability to push those things off. And again, there's positive to that. You get to build your career, but then you get so precious with your life that you're almost... You become too picky, too choosy, too precious with walking forward. What a lot of men will do, women will break up after they've tried again and again. Men will break up before the next step. And that's why a lot of men have the one that got away. You don't hear from women with the one that got away a lot. You hear from men, Oh, I could have been married to her. I could have been married to her. I've said that about many people I've dated. And that's why it's funny when you see these TikToks that are so angry and so the negativity I talked about in the beginning. It's not as personal as it looks the way they're talking about it, even though it's personal to them.

I know from the male side, it's never been that someone's not worth it or not enough or not someone that I could have been with. It was always my own. I was thinking, there's a Tony Cornheiser as a writer. I've heard him say this line, The Key of Me. We all live in The Key of Me. When you write a story, you write it about yourself. I think what a lot of men are going through is The Key of Me, and it's not as personal to the women that are feeling like, okay, they have so much choice.

Or I wasn't hot enough.

Or I thought he could do better.

I thought It could be better. That was always fraudulent to me.

I've never heard it that well-articulated. That's really interesting to hear.

I'm saying I'm a well-articulated person. My mom says that all the time.

No, I mean that. I don't think I've heard it put that way before, and I can resonate with it so strongly at different ways in my life. I think, right. It's a very-It's an ideology that I get.

Yeah. And it's for all levels of life. I mean, you talk about kids.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think that's just a man's mind is like, yeah, if you talk to me When I think about kids at 30, I would have been so scared. I would just be like, oh, my God, I don't think I could be a dad. That's how I genuinely felt. Whereas now I'm 37, I think about kids a lot. That's just a shift that I've been through in my own mind Where at one point, if you asked me, I would have been like, I'd be fine without them. And now it's a part of something that I want. And it's such a... Whether it's age, maturity, biology, finances, I don't know. But there is a sense of that feeling of, yeah, it's not really about the other person. I've always known my wife would be an amazing mom. That's not even the conversation.

We got so many emails that are like, he ended it and I wasn't looking to get married. That's always the response. Women were right in. It's not like I said I wanted to get married. It's really demeaning towards the men they're dating because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to I think that far ahead.

Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. And back to our episode.

I don't know if it's demeaning. I think women are like, Why don't you just give this a chance? Why don't we see where it can go? And we don't have to But- What pressure on him. Yes. Why don't we... If a woman who's dating a man for three months, and he'll break up before they're in a relationship. And I think there's this frustration of, I'm not asking you to marry me, to commit to forever right now, but why can't you keep dating me? Or really fully commit.

I guess it's demeaning to both sides. He's thinking way far ahead, way farther ahead than she would even imagine. And he's also not trusting her to be able to be told that he's ending it. She'll be okay if they date for three years and then don't get married.

Right.

It goes both ways.

We're not giving each other enough credit, basically. We're not giving each other enough credit that, oh, wait, he's actually thinking 25 years from now. We're not trusting that she's confident enough to handle a breakup. To handle a breakup in five years.

Again, both sides of that equation I feel bad for. If someone got dumped after five years and never got married, thought they were, I'd be like, Yeah, that sucks.

But women have agency, too. I think you see a lot of those stories, and you don't get the other side, which is also that, if you're dating someone for five years and you've been looking to get married and they're not married, you can leave also at any time. That's the credit you're not giving the woman of That if you're not giving her what she wants, she can leave.

Right. Fair.

It's so interesting, right? What you're both doing, which I really appreciate, is it's almost like if we were able to verbalize this stuff with a person that we're talking to. Much harder. It's so much harder, but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart. You'd actually be able to hear it and go, wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective.

I always have so much joy when a couple says they listen to our podcast together. Because I know what you're saying is so true. This is all easy for us to say from the sidelines. It is so easy for us to say. This is simple. Oh, I can give advice on everyone else's relationship. I know exactly what I should do When I'm in it, I'm like, I'm a bumbling idiot. But when I hear a couple of listens to our podcast together, I'm like, We're talking for them. It's almost easier to listen than it is to put these into words. And I'm like, Man, they must be doing okay. Not to give ourselves too much credit, but I don't even think it's us.

Well, they're having these conversations. And like what we said before, it's like, I do think when women break up with men, they're like, Please change, please change, please change. And then they don't change. And then finally, they break up with them. And I think a lot of men are maybe more than women afraid to have a lot of these conversations. And so are just secretly thinking about if they should leave. And then women always feel like they're blindsided.

That's true. Absolutely. That's true. That's true. Men are thinking about it for six months before they do anything.

Yes. And the woman is like, What do you mean?

And you've done all that thinking.

Because any woman that breaks up with her boyfriend will tell you, And I kept asking him not to stop getting drunk, and I kept asking him to stop doing this and this and this, and he just wouldn't change. I really wanted it to work. And you just don't really hear that from men when they're breaking up with people.

No, it just wasn't working. No one ever asked me after a break of what happened. Yeah. No one's ever... That's me. Right. Jordana does. But generally, my male friends, they're just high-fiving me on the way to a dating app. If I had to explain what happened, it would just sound like I just gave up, which isn't something I'm proud of, but it's not something I ever have to really deal with.

So would you say you're not looking for a long term committed, loving relationship?

No, I am. That's the crazy...

Wait, now you're confusing me.

No, I am, but I'm afraid of it being... What are you afraid about? If I was to be really honest about it, I'm afraid of making my choice as someone else's problem.

Or are you afraid of making the wrong choice. Right.

Also. Then you make the wrong... Well, you make the wrong choice with the wrong person. But I do think I know my taste enough at this point to know who I get along with. Again, I think a lot of guys... I'm not a soulmate guy. I'm not a soulmate. I don't think... I just think you can make it work with a lot of people. I agree with that. But they all are very similar types, similar type of personality and thinking and worldview, those types of things. But I do think I blame stand up and doing comedy and the career I chose, but that's not a really good reason. But I do think the fear of you are someone else has... If I fail, I fail on my own. That's really easy for me. I can sit at home and bury myself in it. I give a lot of credit to you're married and you're starting a business or you're doing things and you got kids that you got to talk to and they go, What happened? The kids asked what happened. Are you kidding me? I can't even imagine. What happened with the big deal?

We didn't get it. What do you say to a kid? I don't know. It's scary.

I think you mentioned something a lot that a lot of men feel, but maybe don't articulate, is that it is much more like their ability to commit is a lot more tied to how secure they feel financially, how secure they feel in their careers. Obviously, women care about their careers and how they're doing financially. But I think most women will say, I can date in any phase of my career trajectory. I don't need to be established in order to get married. I don't need to be established in order to have children. I think men are much more like, I cannot fully go there unless I feel like I could take care of a family.

Right. And if we go back to that high value douchey conversation, what makes a guy high value is career established, safe-Providing. Providing and doing okay. I think that's why we talk about dating as vulnerably and as honestly as-That's what this is right now, and it feels good. I think people listening, when we talk about dating, it's like, I like when I hear people just say, Oh, good. I'm not sitting here alone dealing with that. But no, long term relationship, yeah, I'm looking for that. But I'm also like, I feel a little delusional even saying that. I was in Australia. I just did shows in Australia and I went to the Great Barrier Reef. I did the snorkeling. I'm not a snorkeler. I don't know. They were like, Do you want to go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef? I'm like, How am I going to say no to that? No, I'd like to sit at the instead of my phone. I have to do this. This is the only bucket list item. I took a boat an hour away, and we got to the reef, and I started snorkeling, and the mask kept coming off my face, and I was miserable.

Then they give you all this lube and they say, put it on your face. So now I got all this Vaseline. They give you all the Vaseline and then put it on the face. I finally get the thing on and I start looking at the fish. I remember thinking 10 minutes into this, I'm going, Is this it? This is the Great Barrier Reef. And then I'm thinking, but I'm by myself and I'm looking at this reef and I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something? And then we got back on the boat and I was just sitting alone on the boat and I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships.

Someone to go to the Great Barrier Reef and say how horrible it was and go, Man, that sucked, right?

You just want to go, Oh, my God. Again, I'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the Great Barrier Reef. But again, this is old school shit. I'm not I'm not saying anything that Dr. Seuss didn't say. It's who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about with. I remember after that trip to Australia, I was like, I'm not doing it. I think I told you, I was like, I'm not going.

Never going to the Great Barrier Reef alone again. Right.

I just remember being on that boat, just being like, what the hell am I? I was like, do people like this? I don't know. I think people like that they went with a partner and they were like, that sucked, right?

That's how I felt watching Superman last week. I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not. It was the worst movie I've ever seen in my life. You hated it? I hated it. It was so bad. It's that feeling of... I didn't go with my wife. I went with a couple of friends, and they hated it, too. But then the ratings are through the roof, and everyone I don't know anyone. So when you go watch it, tell me about it. I saw it. What did you think? I liked it. Oh, you saw 3D.

I saw 3D, yeah. I didn't like 3D. I thought 3D was a waste of money.

I didn't get any of the comedy. I wasn't laughing. I didn't find the dog cute. I I didn't get it.

The dog got annoying. Yeah, I just didn't get it. I thought the dog got annoying.

I didn't get the film.

Are you a Superman fan?

Yeah, I love Superman. You do? But I love the TV version with-Do you like Smallville? No, not Smallville.

Smallville is a pretty good show.

No, not Smallville. I felt that way. It's interesting. Jordana, I wanted to ask you that with the opposite end of what we're talking about with Jared. How long have you been married now? Almost four years. Okay, fine. And what have you... You've been building a business. The business was fairly established at that point, I imagine. But what's that been like for you, where almost all the things Jared's afraid of are things you've been doing? What's that like in reality?

I think in reality, it's so much less scary than you think it is. I think the hardest part is Especially for you, is the feeling of finality and commitment and this is it. I'm making a choice. But I think nothing makes you feel like an adult more than really making a choice. And I think being married is making that choice every day and saying, I'm I'm going to look at the positive aspects of what's going on here. Every day doesn't mean constantly being positive or never sharing something that's bothering you. But I think what you were saying is the magic of marriage is not necessarily all the good stuff that you're sharing together, but being able to go through life and experience all the lows and all the highs. And then you really have this full intertwined experience with someone, and they help you grow. They help you. They're the right person for you. They're supporting you. And I think then for me, what was unique meeting my husband as opposed to anyone else I ever dated is I just felt this full... I felt so safe and so secure that I could build my career and I could go out there, and I could not be hyper-focusing on finding the right person because I felt like I had someone who was supportive and who wanted the best for me and that I could be fully myself with and self-actualize.

I think that you would have that totally, too. Of course, someone to make fun of the barrier reef with. To also go through the negative-The mid barrier reef, as I call Yeah, or to go through the negative experiences. If something horrible happens to you and you have someone who's seen that, and then when things are good, they can appreciate that with you much more.

Yeah. It was really cool, though, because we started this podcast when Jordana was single and also just started dating her now, husband. It was funny in the beginning of this show, how cool it was. It's funny when we first started, Jordana asked me questions that are like, so you could tell, this is about my dating. I'm on a third date. What would you say to someone going on a third date with someone they like and they think is a good guy?

He listened to the podcast at that time.

I think he did. Yeah.

That's funny. That is the weird... You have a dating podcast, and the weird part is you're more honest on a podcast than you are, than you can be with the people in your life. That might sound bad, but you come on here, we're talking, we're chit-chatting. And that's the beauty of a podcast. You get to put in a headphones and just sit and be a fly on the wall. That was a great part of being an early dating and having you.

I would basically like, you could be like his mouthpiece almost for any fights we got into or anything, and you'd explain the side. And I would get it more because you do have that very unique ability to verbalize what men are thinking or how they're thinking about things that sometimes you just don't come at things the same way. And that's really the source of most conflict in relationships is just having a totally different framework for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance. And a lot of the times, men and women are thinking about things really differently. Right.

And that's been the frustrating part about the internet's evolution over the last seven years of us doing this podcast is there aren't a lot of straight male voices in this space. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but when I come on this podcast, I'm telling you exactly how I feel. And it sounds really icky, as I said before, but this is it. I'm not apologizing for it. I'm just telling you. The podcast has been great because Jordana has never been like, Well, that's just you. You're gross. I am gross, but I am speaking. I'm not 100% away from your boyfriend. I'm 10% away at a max. Most of us are 10% away from each other. When we talk about stuff, and you see on the internet, there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories as you hear about dating from the female side. And it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great.

It doesn't feel quite as wholesome as the intentions for women on dating apps.

The intentions for women on dating apps is I want to find the love of my life and hold hands when we're buried together dead. And nothing can be better than that. I just like to fuck. That doesn't sound great on the internet, and you will find a million voices shouting you down. I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time. And maybe if I meet someone great. We have so many people that ask about, and this is like, they'll ask about what men write or people write, what they write as what they're looking for. And it'll be like, I'm looking for a long term relationship. I'm looking for short term, but open to long. Before that option even exists, I would always say, men are looking for short term option for long. That's what all men are looking for. The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else. That's the Disney princess to us. So when we get asked, they wrote that they're looking for a long term relationship, but they ended it with me. It's like, yeah, that is bullshit. Stop looking at what people…

You know what they're looking for. The only thing you should trust on a dating app is I only want short term because that's them being honest. Every guy on there is open to long-term, open to short, but hoping for long, and they believe it. So you're not going to win that battle. Hey, but you said you had long term relationship written there. Oh, you're right. I guess we should be together now. That's never going to happen. Yeah. And that doesn't sound great.

No, of course not.

That, yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life. That doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this.

It's really interesting when we think about it, even if we're 10% away, my perspective has been so transformed, and I hear this from men who are married and have kids, and so who are one step ahead of me in that journey. And even for me, getting married was the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time, energy, and space to do all the things I loved. Because as a young man, all I did was chase women and spend loads of time, money, and energy on finding the right girl. All of a sudden, I got all that time back. So when you realize how much time I got back-Very efficient.

I have a buddy who's all of a sudden into baking, and I'm like, When did this happen? He's like, I got a wife. I like to bake. I didn't even know.

I'm a better version of myself. I remember speaking to a lot of successful men, and they were the best. If you look through history, the most successful and happy, successful men, I'm not just talking about financially, just men who are happy and successful, it was because they were committed to one woman because they had so much time and energy to build, do, be, and be accepted. I don't doubt that. No, I'm not preaching to you.

No, but I know you're not because I've heard you talk about your wife on our podcast, and you can tell this is a partnership. You guys are aiming for the same thing. You seem on the same page, just the way you talk about your relationship. When you see that and feel that, you go, Yeah, of course, that's the better option than single. But then you sit here and you go, Man, I haven't really had that.

And that's the right answer because you're right, it's not just anyone. It's the person that's mutually working on it with you as well. And it's your point, too. I could have been with a lot of different people. I think I could have married a bunch of other people that dated, but it wouldn't have worked because either I would have lost enthusiasm and energy, or they would have. Whereas the only reason why this one's working is because both people are willing to put in that energy and that work and that time in a way that I don't think I would have had for anyone else. And that's the part that you're waiting for, and that's important for sure. I want to go to the final five before we do some segments with you. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum, but I'm going to change it for you guys. Are you going to be able to do that? I'm I got to change it for you guys because I don't want to do that. But we're going to be quick with it. Okay. We got to be quick with it.

Lightning round. So I'm going to give you a little bit of scenarios. So you've been on a few great dates, but you're always the one initiating At what point does that stop being their style and stop being assigned, they're not prioritizing you?

As soon as you're turned off by that.

Yeah.

I think.

This is my answer. Try this. If you're in a position, you're always making the plan, it doesn't, you're turned off by it. First of all, establish, I'm turned off. I don't like that I keep making the plan. That's okay to admit. It's okay to say you're turned off.

If you don't like making the plan, if you don't mind making the plan, that's also okay. Right.

Both are okay. But if you want the person you're texting with to make the plan and it would make you feel good, send this text. You ready? Hey, I'm really busy today. Would love to see you again. Make a plan and I'm in.

Nice. I like that.

There's no other answer to that than a plan. If there's other answers, they're not really looking to go out and hopefully you're turned off by that.

Or they're not someone who makes plans and they're not for you.

Right.

Yeah. Well said. I like great answers. That was very succinct, both of you. That was good. All right. You matched On a dating app, you've had a great conversation, but they haven't responded in two days. How long do you wait before moving on?

Feeling it is the answer. So that person felt it. I haven't heard from them in two days. Okay, what are you going to do about it? Hey, checking in. Would love to go out. Make a plan and I'm in.

Right.

Make a plan. Positive and direction will get you everything you want in life. And with dating, if you're honest, you will feel dishonesty very quickly. Be positive. Hey, I've loved chit-chatting with you. It's been a couple of days. I'm around next week. Make a plan and I'm in.

Make a plan and I'm in will set you free.

It will truly.

That's the one.

It's such simple advice. But I only give advice that would work on me. What would work on me? If someone I was texting with, but I was just getting the dopamine hit from their text and I didn't want to go out with them, if they were like, Hey, make a plan, I'm in. Time for me to go. Let me put on my hat. I'll be out the door.

Yeah. If that doesn't work, if make a plan and I'm in doesn't work, you've saved your own time. You've saved your own mental energy, even thinking about it because you've thrown the ball on their court, and now you can move on.

Right.

Great. How do I navigate jealousy of friends' relationships and milestones when I feel stuck or behind.

Remember that your friends are all liars and they're way more unhappy than you think they are.

No.

They suck. How about that? No. Your friends and the jealous Jealousy probably comes from a place of you assuming. I think if you went out for lunch with a friend that you'd feel jealous of, you'd feel really different after that lunch. I tend to believe that. I call it that guy mode, FTG mode, where someone will be like, Hey, have you met my friend Tim? And I'm like, FTG, right away. And then you meet them and you go, Oh, they're a nice person and they're pretty cool. And so I think if you're feeling jealousy towards your friends in their relationships, go for lunch with them. I think that would be a purposeful move.

I have a slightly different take. Okay, go ahead.

Go ahead, Jordana.

I think one, I think that feeling of jealousy is really like that's a secondary emotion for what you're really feeling, and maybe what you're really feeling is like a loneliness thing. And I think it's okay to feel that. I think that's actually great because it gives you You know what you want. So many people have no idea what they want. So I think that's great. I think have lunch with your friends not to see how miserable they are. Or maybe they are, maybe they're miserable. Or maybe they have a great relationship and you can say, what was it about this person that made them different. You can get inspired by them. I think you can change. We go back to the beginning of the episode. You can change your attitude. You can feel more excited and get a tip from them. I think it's okay to feel jealous. People are so afraid to say, I feel jealous, and I don't know why it feels like a very icky emotion, but I think it's okay to feel jealous. Jealousy is like, I know what I want. I want that. Now I can really work to figure out how to get it.

All right, good answer so far. All right, this one. This person's not overly impressive to me, but they're loyal and kind. Do I stay or do I go?

I just always think of these things, would I want that person saying that about me at our wedding? I wouldn't want to be with that person. I don't want to be with someone who pities me, someone who doesn't think. Again, if you're thinking they're not overly impressive, then you're probably very caught up on what other people think of your partner. That's probably more of a message to you than it is to how they should be. Maybe you have to go and work that out. Why are you thinking that way about your partner? I would want them to end it with me. I'd be like, I don't want to be thought of like a the dog. That's how you talk about the dog.

Right. I do agree. I think that I would ask myself, what does overly impressive mean to me and what is that adding to my life? Again, I think part of dating, especially as you get older, is figuring out what actually matters. And some people call that settling, and I think other people call that prioritizing what's actually important. I think I would dig deeper into overly impressive, what that means to me, why I'm so interested in it, and what I think that's going to bring to a partnership.

Yeah, well said. All right, fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, but I'm going to apply it to dating and relationships. If you could create one dating law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Every time you say you're confused about something, exchange the word confused for turned off. So I'm confused they haven't texted me back. I'm turned off that they haven't texted me back.

That's great answer.

Being turned off doesn't mean it's over. It's something to communicate to the person you're dating. That's an easy text to send from outside. It's not easy to say on the inside, but to say to someone, Hey, I'm a little turned off that you haven't texted me back since our date. That's all you have to say because, again, I only give advice that works on me. Anytime a woman has told me they've been turned off by me, it is motivated me.

You impressed them.

Motivated you to. Motivated me to either end it or be better.

Yeah, motivated you to some action. Make a move. To action, make a move.

So anytime someone says they're confused about something, I've noticed that That's just their way of not telling us that they're turned off. So take confused, switch it with turned off, and then communicate that.

Great advice. Jordana, finish this off.

I think my mistake I used to make in dating, especially before starting this podcast, is wanting to be the person that someone likes and so not stating your own needs in an effort to get the widest reach of people who are interested in you. But what I've learned is that when you express your needs, you save your own time and you find the better match for you sooner because your needs are your needs. There's no such thing as a wrong need or a right need, it's what works for you. And the sooner you ask or express your need, the sooner you find out if someone's going to meet it, and the more time you save on your own.

Nice stuff. Two down on Jared, you guys are the best. Great advice, great insight. Anyway, Everyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you subscribe to You Up if you haven't already. Make sure you cut this into all your clips for TikTok, for Instagram. Tag all three of us. I love seeing the stuff that resonates with you, the stuff that turned you off, the stuff that brought you to life, the things that you're practicing I want to know who's doing the challenge with Jared because it's helpful and it'll make you feel...

You'll feel refreshed very quickly. I will say that.

You could do the challenge in a relationship. You're just putting your... Are you doing it, too? I'm being more social.

Okay. All right. I didn't realize.

I like the dinner one. Yeah.

Make a plan with a couple. It really does.

Yeah, it changes it.

It changes things. Get off your phone. This challenge is get off your phone.

It's a little bit. When I'm with someone else, I'm off my phone.

I love it. You're doing it, Jared. You're the best. I hope you come back soon. Thank you so much. You guys are awesome. I really hope you'll come back again. We got a lot to talk about next time, but I would have kept you here for another hour if I could have. I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. You guys are awesome.

You're the best, man. We really appreciate it.

This is so great. Thank you so much for having us.

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussy on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self, because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.

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