Transcript of Claudia Oshry: How to Stop Letting Your Body Image Hold You Back & Build Lasting Confidence

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I think a lot of people let their weight control their lives. I didn't think that I was capable of changing and now I know I'm capable of that. Like, bitch, I can do anything. Like I really can. She is a multi talented entertainment personality. Hope everybody's having a go to Monday. The one, the only Claudia Oshri.

What do you feel is the biggest misconception about.

I felt so misunderstood by people. I remember getting married and being like so angry that my dad wasn't going to be there when I was struggling with my self image. I feel like I'm going to cry now. Sorry. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you choose to become Happier, healthier and more healed. Today I'm excited because I'm actually speaking to someone who is my team's number one pick. My team will only want to show up for Michael B. Jordan, Lewis Hamilton and Claudia Archery. I'm not kidding.

Women in male dominated fields.

I'm not kidding. My team are the biggest fans of today's guest. I was lucky enough and grateful enough to go on her show the Toast, the hit show award winning, incredibly huge, huge, huge podcast called the Toast last year. It is genuinely the thing whenever I get stopped, people are like, I heard you on the toast. I loved it, I loved it, I loved it. So I am so excited. I get to return the favor today with Claudia Ashri. Claudia, thanks for being here.

Oh my God, Best intro ever. Do it again.

I'd be happy to.

Be happy to.

It was, it was genuine, it was honest.

And I love you, by the way. Like when we met, I'm not gonna lie, I was like a little, I'm like, who's this guy? Because I wasn't super familiar. I read your book and I was like, okay, let's see what it's about. I feel like sometimes when someone becomes really known with a lot of celebrity friends, it can be like a little smoke and mirrors. And I was like, honestly, I'm suspicious this guy's coming in. And you were so kind. The second you walked in, it was very disarming. I was like, oh, nevermind. I take back, like, I love him. And we had such a great conversation. And I actually loved so many things about your book because your book was like really heavy on relationships and I just loved it. And ever since then I've just like, loved you.

Oh yeah, that genuinely means the world to me. And you made me feel so comfortable that day because I was like, guys, like you guys. I was talking to my team and I was like, you guys listen to her. And I was like, I'm not cool, I'm not funny. I was like, how am I going to fit in? Like, how's this going to work? And they were like, no, no, no, she's going to be wonderful. And you were. And you are. And I'm so grateful that I now get to do this back. So let's dive straight in because you just said something to me. I wasn't going to start, but you just said something to me. And I wanted to ask you, like, what do you feel is the biggest misconception about you?

Oh, wow, that's a good question. I don't know if I would Say there's one misconception. I would say, like, though largely. And there was a period a few years ago, because I remember writing about this in my book where I fe so misunderstood by people. And I feel like unless you were watching my podcast every day and listening to everything else thing that I said, you didn't really get me because I feel like I come off as, like, a lot of different things, like, a little crazy, a little outlandish, but I feel like the person that I really am is like, a sister, a wife. I feel like kind of gets lost in the mix sometimes. I like to think I'm like. And I'm always, like, joking about how funny and sweet and kind and beautiful I am, but I really do believe that about myself. And I feel like just because I always lead with, like, humor and a little bit of, like, outrageousness, I do feel like that softer, very. What I think is genuine. Genuine. Gets a little bit lost.

That's so interesting. I mean, I can relate in so many ways. I feel so misunderstood so often, and it's because we have a view of what a spiritual person or a teacher or a guide looks like. And I think I'm just trying to be people's friend.

Right.

I'm trying to be the person who's just reminding you something.

Yes. I feel like your job title definitely, like, you lead with that, and people have conceptions about that before. And I feel the same way, like, coming from a comedy space, especially when you make jokes that, like, sometimes are a little, you know, people are like, oh, she's crazy. She's radical. And it's just like, I'm actually just a girl. Like, I'm just a girl, and nothing makes me happier than making people laugh. And, like, sometimes I take it a little far, but, like, it's funny, it's funny. What's the big deal?

Yeah, And. And. And that's why, for me as well, it's like, I want to help people. I want to make people feel better. I want to introduce people to great ideas and insights. It's not. It doesn't have to be heavy. It doesn't have to be, like, everything. I also love soccer and love fashion and love, you know, just. I'm a normal human being. And it's like, I love that balance. And I think that's how I see myself, as someone who has these very nuanced interests and hobbies and everything else. But I think naturally, we're kind of forced to be in a box. Yeah, you can be both.

100%. I so believe that. I feel like I'm so hard and I'm so soft.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

At the same time.

At the same time. And I feel like I'm always leading, obviously, because what I do is, like, just try to make people laugh, which I love. So I'm always leading with that. And I do feel sort of so we. Sensitive side. And I'm very sensitive. I feel like I don't show that a lot, and I don't want to show it that much because I feel like, on the Internet, so toxic. If you open up about a vulnerability or something, people throw it back in your face and they use it against you. So I'm also really protective of my own piece.

Wow. When did you learn that you had to do that?

I feel like when I first started opening up, I feel like the first thing I really opened up about, because I share everything on the Internet, and it's not hard. I don't feel like I'm digging deep to share. I'm a nat. Like, if I meet you for the first time, I'll tell you my life story. That's just how I am. So I've never felt like I was sharing something that I wasn't comfortable sharing until I shared my journey with Ozempic, which was so personal to me. And, you know, I got a lot of support for it. But there were also people, you know, you're stealing drugs from diabetics, like, literally. No, I'm not. And there was, like, a lot of. There's a lot of discourse around that. Do people who struggle with their weight need medication? Are they stealing medication from diabetes patients? So I felt, like, scared to share that one, because I think the emotion I felt most was, like, I was really embarrassed that, one, I'd gotten myself to a place where I required a medication, and two, I did feel a little pushed to share just because it was so obvious to people that I was on it.

And, you know, everybody. Nobody would let me live. They wouldn't let me sleep for five minutes. They're like, she's on a subway. She's on azembic. She's on a stomach. And when I did share, I'm ultimately so glad that I did, but I. I didn't feel at first like it was my choice necessarily, that.

That always feels harder.

Yeah.

Yeah. When you feel like you had to share something because there was already so much talk, speculation. Yeah.

And now when I look back, I wish I shared sooner. It's like the greatest journey I went on. I have so many Positive things to say about it. I think when I tell people, it makes them feel, like, a little less embarrassed about their journey. Cause look at me. I'm so fabulous. And even I did it, and I wish I did it sooner. And I loved every minute of the journey, but at the time, I was so embarrassed. Like, that was just the emotion I remember feeling was, like, pure shame.

That's. I mean. And that sounds like such a hard place to be. We actually interviewed. I interviewed Johann Hari, a good friend of mine, who wrote the book the Magic Pill. He's on ozone, and he's gone and done all the research from the biggest experts in the space and the naysayers in the space. And so for anyone who's looking for a very researched guide to Ozemp, he was brilliant, and he talked about it from so many different perspectives. But going back to what you said, one of the first things that I think so hard for people is how society has made people feel shameful about their body in general. I mean, you've talked before about. I saw that I. I actually couldn't believe this existed. But you've talked about going to fat camp.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I'd never heard.

Summers of my life.

We never. I've never heard of that. Living in.

It's so.

Growing up in London.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, first of all, explain to me how you can get away with calling something fat camp. And what is fat camp?

Well, actually, at the time, I believe they were going by weight loss camp. Not that it mattered. Like, colloquially, it's called a fat camp. Right. And, yeah, so I went to summer camp my whole life. And when I was like, I feel like maybe I was in, like, the sixth grade. I don't remember how old I was. My older sister was really struggling with her when I never struggled with my weight as a kid. And, you know, my parents tried a lot of different things, and one of the things that they tried was sending her to, like, a summer camp that was focused on physical fitness. I think what people think of as a fat camp, like a fat farm, where, like, the kids are up every day pulling tires up hills. It wasn't like that at all. It was a very standard, all American summer camp with fitness and diet just sort of at the forefront of meals and activities. And all my sisters went to support my older sister, and we ended up having, like, the most amazing time. We went back. I never went back to the old camp that I had originally went to.

We went back every summer. It was the greatest experience of my life. Some of my best friends. I still talk to. To this day from camp. And so I know how it, like, sounds and looks to other people, but for me, it was just such a regular camp experience. But I also wasn't on the program. So for any of the summers that I spent at a weight loss camp, I was actually never struggling with my weight. So I'd wear this special bracelet that just let everyone at the facility know, like, I'm not on the program. And then it turns out, you know, the second I left camp, I actually started to, you know, struggle with my weight, and I really could have used a weight loss camp.

Wow. I mean, so what was that like then in the beginning years? Because I think what's interesting as we talk about Ozempic, to me, so much of it is about how we're conditioned since we're young. So I grew up overweight.

Oh, did you?

Yeah. For. I was overweight until I was about, like, 15.

Wow.

16 years old, maybe.

I can't picture it.

And. Yeah, I'll show you pictures. Yeah, I will. I will. My wife has plenty of embarrassing pictures of me. And. And she was as well.

Oh, really?

Yeah, she was as well.

So let me tell you, people who have never struggled with their weight, like, are not people. Not that there's anything wrong with them, but, like, they're not people I can relate to. I feel like struggling with your weight makes you such a real. Like, can I curse on here?

Yeah.

Like, I feel people who have struggled with their weight, they know real struggle. They know being uncomfortable. Like, I just feel I. When I meet someone and they've struggled with their weight, like, I automatically know they're, like, they're my type of person. You know what I mean?

That's. That's what I'm sharing.

It creates such a resilience. Like, you're serious, especially as a kid. Oh, my God.

Yeah, it's huge. I mean, like, I remember the bullying, the name calling, the awkward thing of trying to pull myself out of a swimming pool and not being able to. So real, you know, moments like that where you're just like, oh, gosh, this is the worst thing that could have ever happened. And then being forced to wear Speedos at school. So British. Yeah. Not in America, right?

No, never.

That's our version of fat camp. Yeah. You have to wear Speedos.

That's terrible, actually.

Yeah. And so when I look back at all of that, I think about how much shame guilt is already set up just in our perception of what it means to be overweight and now you're talking about feeling shame of going on Ozempic, which you're taking to do the opposite.

Well, it's like, you can't win. I used to get, like, so much, you know, backlash and messages like that. I'm setting a bad example that I live an unhealthy lifestyle. So then I take control of it and, like, I start changing my life, and now I'm, you know, running diabetics over with a bus. Like, you really can't win, so you just have to do what makes you happy. And going on that journey made me really happy. It was, like, the first time in my life where I ever felt in control of my weight. Like, since I'm like, I started gaining weight in college, so. But since I'm 18, I. It was the craziest feeling. It was so foreign to me. And I think a lot of. Especially girls who struggle with their weight may be able to relate to this. Like, I was always a confident person, even when, you know, I was struggling with my weight. And I was always really happy in my own body. That was, like, something I really worked on. I think a lot of people let their weight control their lives, whether it comes to work or personal relationships.

For me, I was never gonna let it stand in my way. But that didn't mean that I didn't like that. I liked it. Like, I loved myself and I loved my life, but. But deep inside, I always wanted to be skinny. So when you're an overweight girl, like, you wake up every day and you think about. You look, you pass a mirror, you pass a window, you're thinking probably a hundred times a day about the inevitable day when maybe one day you will be skinny. So Ozempic gave me that. And to achieve a lifelong dream that you never think, and I know it sounds so dramatic, but to achieve a lifelong dream that you never think is gonna come to fruition is the craziest feeling. And that's why I really felt so compelled to share my journey. Because at the time when I shared, it was 20, 23, I think maybe around the end of the year. No, it was like the summer. There was so much negative stuff out there about Ozempic. Like the Daily Mail every time somebody ended up in the ER with a headache, it was Ozempic's fault. And I just felt like everybody was being made fun of for being on Ozempic and no one was really talking about how life changing it is.

And especially as, like, a girl who always wanted to be a mom, I was. I was Like, I can't ever get pregnant at this weight. I have to lose the weight before I can gain the weight. So it just gave me opportunities. It gave me a whole new life. And I felt so compelled to share because it bothered me how negative everything was about this journey. Like, we were all supposed to feel shame. Like, the amount of negative media representation, negative mentions of Ozempic, like, was supposed to, I think, shame people into not doing it. And I was like, I don't feel like. And I think that's why Oprah did her special, too. Her special was really powerful because she's somebody who's benefited enormously from it. And you don't hear those stories enough, and it makes me so sad. So ultimately, it was the best decision I ever made, going on it and also sharing the journey. But at the time, I just wish people had given me, like, a little bit more space to process it, you know?

Did you ever worry about the side effects and. And what you. Because I'm guessing you're thinking about those things as well.

Yeah, of course. So when I. When it was first brought up to me by my plastic surgeon, I was, like, super intrigued. Then I spoke to, like, my primary care physician about it, and both of them were really, like, down and excited, and they wanted me to do it. So I felt really good, like, knowing that my doctors supported it. And that's why, like, I. I didn't share from day one, because, one, what if it didn't go well? Two, so it doesn't work for some people, so I make this whole big thing I'm going on, and then I don't even lose the weight. Like, there were so many factors at play, so I. I couldn't share from day one. And then when I started to. To drop significant weight, I was just then feeling embarrassed. That's why I didn't share. I was like, wow. I. My life got to a place where it was. Where I'm so out of control, I need medication to get me to stop eating. Like, and that's what I loved about Oprah Special was she really dived into, like, the illness, the disease of obesity and how it's like, telling someone to stop eating is like telling a depressed person to just be happy.

Like, it's really not in our chemical compound. So I felt like the whole journey, I was learning about myself. I was learning about the disease, I was learning about the medication. And, yeah, of course I was worried about side effects. But after a couple of weeks when I had minimal nausea and it went away pretty fast, I felt like this was the right drug for me.

Yeah. And then what was it that decided to get you off it?

Oh, well, I had lost the weight and I feel like I was on it for a year. And the first six months I just kind of let the drug like do its thing. I didn't change my life at all. I was like, still eating like crap. But that's how the drug works. You eat like crap, but you eat half. So I was losing weight and then halfway through I was like, okay, now that I've kind of gotten my life a little bit under control, let me actually try and change my life. So I joined the gym, I got a trainer, I started working out, I started eating way healthier. So I did the journey, like in two parts. One where I just kind of let the medication run me and then where I used the medication as like a. A tool to change my life. And I really wanted to see if I could do it without. And I also knew that I had wanted to get pregnant sometime soon. And you have to be off the medication for a minimum of two months. So I got off of it in December of 2023. I knew in the next year I'd wanted to get pregnant and I kind of wanted to put as much time between being off the drug and starting my journey.

And I wanted to see, like, if I could keep up with my working out and my eating well regimen without the drug and I was able to. And that's like one of the things I'm most proud of because, like, and I never would have been able to get there if it weren't for the, the tool of Ozempic and all those GLP1 medications.

Wow. And how did you. How has it changed you? Because you, like you said you were already confident, you already liked yourself, you knew who you were. What's changed?

I mean, I'm insufferable now. Like, no, I think that so much of my confidence was like, I really had to work at it. Do you know what I mean? It was, I don't wanna say fake, but I just remember one day waking up and like, deciding to be confident. And slowly by slowly, brick by brick, I built up a sense of confidence that really it was real. But I do think it was built on a foundation of like, kind of lies. And now that I, like, really changed my life, I felt so confident, but I also felt so confident that I was capable of change. I think for many years. I'm such a stubborn person. I didn't think that I capable of changing Anything, Anything. Let alone this huge thing for me, which has always been my weight, which has kind of been like my Roman Empire. So I think the fact that I successfully changed something in my life, something bad, and turned it into good like that, and now I know I'm capable of that. Like, I can do anything. Like, I really can.

I love that attitude. But. But how did you build that energy before? Like, I don't want to take away from the fact that even though you say you were faking it, obviously it was working in that you were still doing well. It seems like you were comfortable in your own skin. Like, what would you say to someone who maybe doesn't have. Doesn't want to go on a zemp because they're scared or whatever it may be. But, like, what would you share with them?

So I feel like people don't like my answer because when I was like struggling with my self image, I feel like I'm gonna cry now. Sorry. So much of my confidence, I would say, like, all of it came from the fact that I had a husband or a boyfriend at the time, Beyonce, who loved me so much. And he. I was like the greatest thing. And so if he thought it. And look at him, like, I just, I love him so much and so he thinks I'm so great. Like, that's not that you should get your confidence from a man, whatever. But like, I did just to be loved so unequivocally by somebody who I think is so great, that gave me a lot of confidence. Like, he thought I was the best, he thought I was the smartest, he thought I was the prettiest. So, like, I was, because his opinion is the only one that matters. But also, like, I look at him and I think of him as like, so charming, attractive, like, who wouldn't want to marry him? And he likes me, like, oh my God, I must be like the greatest thing ever.

And. And I really feel like, so much of my confidence. And it's so funny because he says that he gets confidence from me, which I feel like, really happy that it's a two way street, but having a relationship that I felt really solid about, but also somebody who just loved me so much. Really, it just made me believe, like, what he was saying. Do you know what I mean?

What's interesting to me is just so much of how, whether it's body shaming we do to ourselves or that society does to us, how so much of it is built up around esthetics and visuals and how health and vitality are actually not based on Simply visuals.

No, but I will say visually at the time, like if you were to just compare me visually now and me visually then, like I was very unhealthy. Like I had a lot of random medical issues that like a 25 year old girl shouldn't be having. So I agree with you that like a lot of times we judge people's health based on their weight and that's not the case for everyone. But to be clear, like it was the case for me.

Yeah.

Like I was not healthy. I did not walk to work. Like I was really like living a very inactive, unhealthy lifestyle. That's not the case for everyone. You see who's overweight. But that was 1000 the case for me.

Yeah. And now what's the new schedule?

A bitch. Well, now I'm pregnant, so like it's kind of reverted back, but so not pregnancy wise. I just really like lead my day with little pockets of activity. I think that going to meetings, going to work, I'm always being like, okay, I'll walk. I worked out before I got pregnant. I worked out three to five times a week. I would spend my weekends doing things that I enjoy whilst being active, like going for walks in the park with Ben, just making sure that I wasn't rotting in bed as much as I can. I'm capable of. Because I'm capable of a great deal of rotting. And then with meals, that's really where I probably struggled the most. But just, just trying to be a little bit more well rounded. I feel like I eat like a six year old. And so I do. Like, I eat rice and chicken fingers and so just changing sometimes to like brown rice and grilled chicken, you know, thinking a little bit more. But it's hard because I'm such a picky eater that, you know, I'm not gonna be making bronzino on the weekends with like a top, a nod, you know that that's never gonna happen.

I don't even know what topanaut is.

And then, I mean, as I'm hearing you speak, I'm just like, is there a lot of people talk about this right now? Like this idea of when you become pregnant, is there like a loss of the life you had?

Oh my God, 100%.

Like, is there a feeling of like, wait a minute. Just a few moments ago, a few months ago, I was, I would say I don't feel.

I really, I mean, I've been married for 100 years and we decided to wait to have kids. And I think that because we made that choice. I am now not spending my pregnancy and, you know, hopefully the next year or two, mourning a life. I feel like I lived life to the fullest and I really, really waited till I was ready. So the only thing I feel like I'm mourning is my body. Like that. Nobody talks enough about, like, what it's like to lose significant weight and then get pregnant. I don't know how I feel about it. I don't have, like, fully fleshed thought outs. I'm like, struggling every single day. But no, I don't. I don't feel sad about, like, a life left behind. I feel like I lived every minute of my 20s, like on the edge of cliffs, going on trips, partying, like, doing everything I wanted to do. And when I turned 30 over the summer, I was like, you know what? I'm done. Like, I really feel. And that's what I'm so happy about because, yeah, I like, see my friends with kids and I'm like, oh, I do wish I had, like, you know, joined them.

But I feel so fulfilled in that one chapter of my life that I'm really ready to start the next chapter.

Yeah. What was the reason for putting kids off in the beginning? What was the.

I would say it was mostly career. I've been working since I'm 18 and I just could not fathom taking time off. And I don't know, it just really scared me. It doesn't scare me so much anymore. But also the weight thing I could not fathom at my previous weight, getting pregnant. I think it would be a high risk pregnancy. 1 and 2. I think it would take me to a new weight, a new category that I might not be able to come back from. So I always knew I had to figure it out before.

Yeah.

And Ozempa came to me at like, the perfect time.

Yeah. I think the first thing you mentioned, I relate to that is obviously me and my wife don't have kids yet and we'd love to one day. But I think a big thing for me also was I was very clear on who I was when we met and things were kind of going in the right direction for me. And then my wife, I was like, really patient and I really wanted her to find her purpose before we had kids because I wanted her to know who she was and know her identity and have clarity on her worth and her value and everything before we have a child. Because I. I just felt, I was like, I want her to also live a life and what that looks like and you know, in the past Couple of years. She's just like blossom and grow and it's been so fun to watch. And it's like now I'm like, yeah, now, now, you know, from when we're lucky to have children, it's more.

You can conceive it, right?

Totally. Yeah. And. And that you're coming at it from a point of like, I know who I am without anything.

Yes.

And I think that was so important to me for her. I already had it myself.

And also, this is a career thing, right? Like, as, as a woman, it's not like, like you give birth and then you go back to work. It's like a two year thing from conception to the, like, till you really start to feel like yourself again. Especially when your job is like being public and people have so much to say about your body. Like, I don't necessarily didn't want to put myself through that. Like, I really wasn't ready for it. So I cannot recommend enough waiting till you're really ready. And I know that that's a privilege, but like, I, I'm so pleased with how it's worked out so far and I'm really, really glad that I waited because I, I remember I always used to say, like, I wanted to have kids when I was 25. And I remember sitting at my friend's couch and I was like, drunk and he was like, by the way, like, when do you wanna have kids? I'm like, when I'm 25. And he was like, how old are you? I'm like 25. So maybe, maybe when I'm 26. And I don't know, I, I always, I've always, always known I love kids.

Like my niece and my nephews are my whole life. Like, I've always known that I wanted to be a mom. And then I started to get a little worried because I didn't feel it. I'm like, oh, crap. Like, I was so annoyed at the biological clock and I was so annoyed at Covid. It like took two years for me that if Covid hadn't happened, I would have been living my life those two years and been ready when I was 28. But I was like, crap, no. And I got a little worried that I was never gonna be ready because I know it's something that I want. And that's why I feel so grateful that I very naturally came to, to the conclusion that I'm ready. And my husband was amazing about, like, if I had said to him five years ago, let's have a kid, he'd say, okay, if I said to him this, like, he was really let me lead, which I so appreciate. He never put pressure on me to, like, either wait longer or hurry up. Same with our families. Like, nobody really tortured us about it. And I know a lot of girls get, like, endless harassment from their parents and their in laws and like, I didn't get that.

And I'm so grateful because I really came to the conclusion on my own. So, no, I don't. I don't, like, look around and I don't look at social media and see people like, you know, on trips and flying out of planes and think, oh, I wish that was me. I'm like, you know what? I did my time. Honestly, that video makes me tired. I want to go take a nap.

Get emotional with me. Radhi Devlukia. In my new podcast, A really Good Cry, we're going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to go over how to regulate your emotions diagnostic, diving deep into holistic personal development and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends.

I didn't know we were going to go there.

Are we going to be honest people that I admire when we say, listen.

To your body, really tune in to what's going on.

Authors of books that have changed my life.

Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy.

Right.

And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life. I already believe in myself.

I already see myself. And so when people give me an opportunity, I'm just like, oh, great, you see me too.

We'll laugh together, we'll cry together and find a way through all of our emotions. Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to a really good cry with Radhi Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In a galaxy far, far away.

No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember?

Right in our own world. World where two space cadets and totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans.

Embark on a journey across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time.

We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your.

Co pilot, especially when she's always right.

Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame.

It on Mercury retrograde or Emily's questionable space piloting skills.

Hey, join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and.

Super corny dad jokes.

Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid.

Any black holes most of the time.

Hi, I'm Essie Cupp, and I have spent the last 20 plus years knee deep in politics in the news news. I've covered some really tough subjects, from war to genocide to six presidential elections, Way too much Trump. And you know what? I need a break. Like a mental health break. From the news, from the triggering headlines. And I kind of suspect some of you listening out there might need a break, too. So my new podcast is going to be just that, a fun and loose space where I talk to my famous friends and people I admire about all the stuff that consumes us when we're not consumed by politics.

I did not really rebel in the 60s. I had no sex in the 70s. I made no money in the 80s. So when true crime came along, I missed that trend, too.

So many great guests are joining me, from Josh Mankiewicz to Larry Wilmore to Molly John Fast to Josh Gad.

I'm so excited that you have this.

Platform, and I am just, like, hoping that I don't destroy the platform in its earliest stages.

Listen to off the cup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Walk me through that internal dialog of, like, how do you get to that place of feeling ready? I think so many of us are waiting to feel ready in life. Whether it's waiting to feel ready to start a podcast, whether it's waiting to write your book, whether it's waiting, waiting to have a kid, whether it's waiting to get married and you're. We're just waiting. Yeah, but we never feel ready. For most of us, I know. Walk me through what you feel being ready means.

I feel like jealousy is a really powerful emotion. And I started to feel like I might be ready to start a family when, like, I would hear about other girls that I knew, friends, people telling me. And up until that point, when people would tell me I would be so happy for them, like, I would cry, like, really genuine. And I remember the first time, it was like, December of 2023, one of Ben's friends, who, his fiance, excuse me, wife, is one of my good friends, they told us that they were pregnant. And I was so happy for her, but, like, I was a little jealous and Then I was like, oh, that's interesting. And that's why I feel like it's so important to, like, listen to yourself and be able to identify emotions. Cause I was like, okay, let's jot that down. I told Ben. I'm like, by the way, I'm a little jealous of Natalie. He was like, oh, that's great. And that was in December. That was actually when I decided to get off Ozempic. And I was like, okay, good to know. And then I just started, like, listening to my feelings, and when other people would tell me, I'd be like, damn, now I'm starting to feel a little left behind.

And so really, it was my own emotions that told me I was ready. And I've always been very good at, like, identifying my own emotions and, like, thinking, how does this make me feel? Am I pissed? Am I happy? And that's really. I would say how I knew.

Yeah.

But it. It was a struggle.

It feels like you're someone that always knows you're ready, though, because you got, what, married at 23?

Yes. I got married very young. I got engaged. Me and Ben met when I was 18. We got engaged when I was 21. So we dated all throughout college. And then. 23? Yeah. When I got married.

How did you know Ben was the one and you were ready to get married then?

It just wasn't even a question. Honestly, I would have gotten married soon. Like, I know it sounds so crazy, and it is, but we met when I was 18, so I was a freshman in college. And then when I was a senior, I wasn't allowed to get engaged in college. It was like, girl, get a degree. And then we could talk. So I graduated in May, and then Ben and I got engaged in June. It was. I know it sounds. It was four years. I was like, bitch, I'm ready. Like, let's go. Like, I knew, like, from day one that Ben was love my life. It took him, I want to say, like, three months to know that I was the love of his life. But it's okay. Some people, you know, we're all on our different journeys. We all have our own purposes.

I'm you and my wife's Ben.

Yeah. No, I try not to, like, hold resentment. I remember that time you didn't think I was so cute. Like, okay, you know, like, I don't know. I just. I just knew. And it's so crazy because we met when I'm 18. I'm 30 now, so there is a huge part of my life where Ben isn't a factor, but I don't even remember. It's, like, before Ben and after Ben. Like, I don't remember. It's weird. If I, like, tell him a story and he wasn't there, I'm like, where were you? Like, you. I actually feel like we're related, and we might be, but, like, whatever. I. It's the craziest thing. I can't really explain how I knew, but I think when I. When we first met, I was, like, so excited to have a boyfriend. Cause, like, I loved watching movies growing up. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm literally Cher from Clueless. I finally have a boyfriend, and I was so obsessed with the idea of having a boyfriend and, like, the fact that there was this person who wanted to spend time with me, and I was so excited about it. And then, like, I feel like our relationship, we really grew up together.

So the longer we were together and the more time we would spend, it was, like, becoming abundantly clear. Like, we really had the same values, and we really are the same person. And it's so funny because Ben is so funny, but he's married to me, so it's like, good luck. And I would say if he had married anyone else, he would be the funniest guy in every room. But people say to me, people have known Ben for, like, three years. Like, by the way, Ben's funny. I'm like, no, I know, but he can't get a word in with me. He's just the best. And I honestly. I know it sounds so crazy to have gotten married so young. And when we were getting married, I grew up in a modern Orthodox Jewish community, so it really wasn't that crazy. Most of my friends have been married around the same age as me. But when I would meet, like, people, you know, regular secular folk, they would think it was so crazy. And I remember, like, being offended when people would say that. I'm like, you don't know me and Ben. You don't know. But let me tell you something.

The older I've gotten, the more I learned. Like, we were crazy. Yeah, we've changed so much, you know? And when people say, like, not to get married young, like, they're right for that. They're saying it for a reason. I think that the way it worked out for me and Ben is really not how it works out for most people, because. Because I'm so different. Oh, my God. I used to be so annoying, if you can imagine it. Like, I was just such a different person, and so was Ben. You know, I was, like, very insecure, and I don't know, I just was weird. And I, and I grew up, I think, into a person. That's amazing. But I grew up to be somebody a little different. And it's possible that I had grow that I would have grown into somebody that Ben didn't like. And it's possible that Ben would have grown into. He was 21. That he would have grown into somebody that I wasn't particularly into. But we really made a conscious choice to, like, grow up together. So I understand why people said that, and they were probably right for that. But we're different.

Sorry. We just are. We are.

No, I, I, I think that's really fair point. And I think Even Radhi was 25 when we got married. I was 28. And even that is somewhat, it's still, you know, it's still younger. And it's like, it's, it's the same for us. Like, we were sure, you know, it worked out for us. But, but I would say I knew myself very well. Radhi knew herself enough at the time. She's definitely grown. I've kind of stayed the same. And so there is a sense of, like, sometimes you get lucky and you're fortunate and you're blessed, and it's beautiful. And sometimes it can be really hard, of course, and crazy. And I think what I'm hearing from you is just like, it's not an issue if, whether you're the rule or the exception or whichever one you think you are, the point is just be thoughtful about it because you don't want to rush into something too young.

Yeah. I also think Ben's a really patient person. And I definitely did not know who I was, literally until, I would say, a year or two ago. And I think I led with that, like, sort of insecurity. And he was very patient with me, and he was still, like, dealing and growing with his own thing. But I don't know if in those early years, if I was like, the best version of myself. And I think that he really saw in me, who, like my potential and was very measured and really patient. So it takes two people to tango. And he definitely is, like, the kinder patient one in the relationship. And I'm a little bit more, like, rough around the edges, if you can imagine. And he. I would attribute a lot of our marital success to him.

I love how much you love Ben.

He's the best.

Yeah, it's amazing. I can't wait to meet him.

Oh, my God. You've never Met him. He's downstairs, obviously on a call. Like, let me tell you, my husband is always on a call. I don't know who the hell he's talking to. Literally this morning, he doesn't answer the phone for 40 minutes. I'm like, where are you? He's like, I'm walking the dog. I'm on a call. Who the hell are you talking to? I can't.

No. It's lovely to see how much you love him. Like, it's really beautiful.

Thank you. I will say, like, one other reason why you shouldn't get married young is I have. Have oddly made so many lifelong friends much later in life, and these people weren't even at my wedding. It's the weirdest thing. Like, and some of these at my wedding, like, girl, I don't know, you get out of here. And they're, like, in my pictures. And also, I wish I had waited because, like, if I had been on Ozempic at my wedding photos, I would have been a lot happier with the end results of the pictures. But that's my fault. That's my fault.

No, I could so relate to that. I'm. I'm at that. I'm at that stage where I've got a friend, a lot of friends who are older than me, and they all were renewing their vows right now, right. And they literally were like, jay, you weren't at my wedding, but I love that you're here. How weird, because friends change so much from when you get married.

So much. And I feel like there's a point in your life where, like, you. You have made all of your friends. And 21 was not that for me at all.

Yeah, because you haven't. You haven't worked enough.

And so many of my, like, best lifelong friends are people I've met through work.

How's that? How does that work?

I. My. My two of my best friends, like Brian and Taylor, like, I met. They were guests on our show. You meet a lot of people and, like, you know the reputation of podcasters, content creators, influencers, like, is what it is for a reason. Like, some of them are insufferable, but some of them are just, like, the most fabulous people you'll ever meet in your entire life. And that's my friends Brian and Taylor, and they were not at my wedding. And sometimes I'll think about that and I'll be like, oh, I should have waited. Yeah, I should have listened to everybody.

Well, you can renew your vase.

I know, but, you know, they do say that's A curse. I don't know if that's just for the Real Housewives, but every real housewife who has ever renewed her vows ended up divorced.

Really?

Just a fun fact.

That's a fact.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's a fact. But it's like, I don't plan on renewing my vows. Also, I feel like vow renewal is, like, an inherently non Jewish thing. Like, Jewish people don't renew their vows. I don't know. At Jewish. Single Jewish person that's renewed her vows.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. I don't know if it's, like, in the Bible or anything. I just feel like it's not culturally Jewish.

Interesting. Got it. Okay. Understood.

Understood.

Yeah, it's a. I guess. Yeah. I've. I'm always trying to convince Radi that I want to do it, and she's like, yeah, of course you want another wedding because you didn't plan the last one.

Oh, once. I'm so with her on that. Although the only reason I would do it was to. Would be like to get new pictures because I was, like, so ugly at my wedding. It's kind of like one of my biggest regrets.

I think Riley would do it for new pictures because she wants. Even though she looked absolutely gorgeous, she's still.

She's evolved.

Yeah. Yeah.

They're not like. But I guess they are. It's a time capsule, you know, It's a moment in time. Not a moment I want to remember.

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That's drinkjuni.com and make sure you use the code on purpose. How do you decide what parts of your life to share publicly and what parts to keep private?

I generally just lead with what I'm comfortable with. Like, if I wouldn't be ashamed to tell the person next to me on the train, then. And I. I don't really feel shame about a lot of things. I feel like maybe that's something I could and should work on. But no, the. I would say the Ozempic thing is, like, the one thing I really had to push myself to share, but for the most part, I share what's comfortable. And I'm just. I'm an open person. I think that some people find that inconceivable, but I just am.

So it's easy for you. But you were saying earlier that there's. There's times when you're like, oh, this could be judged. This could, you know, like, this could be misconstrued. And so. And I think that's a really valid point. I appreciate you being so honest about it. That's why I'm raising it, because I think at one point, we were in this phase where we're like, vulnerability means you share everything with everyone. And I don't subscribe to that definition of vulnerability. I think vulnerability is actually. I know why I'm sharing it with this person, and I feel safe to share it there. And so I think that society's had to evolve. And then you also see performative vulnerability, where people are, like, literally telling a vulnerable story only because you think you.

Get rewarded for it.

Totally. Exactly. Which then ruins the purpose of vulnerability, because then it's not vulnerable. Vulnerable. So it's like this messy space where I'm trying to. I'm constantly reflecting on, like, what's truly vulnerable, how comfortable do I feel about it? What does that mean?

Yeah, I guess then, like, I. I wouldn't categorize myself as a particularly vulnerable person, because when I share things, even things that are deeply personal, I. I don't feel like it's a big deal. Do you know what I mean? I'm just an ope. That's just how I am.

Yeah.

So I would feel weirder not telling people things. Like, even when I was trying to conceive with Ben, I do a podcast every day, and I'm always talking about what's going on in my Life in my marriage, and it was this huge part that I wasn't sharing, and it felt so deceitful. It was so foreign to me because I'm so used to saying, yeah, last night I did X, Y, and Z, and my color of my underwear is purple. Like, I'm such a sharer that actually not sharing is what makes me uncomfortable.

Yeah. And why did you not share that? What was that?

You know what? It's. It's like a Jewish superstition thing in our culture.

Any culture has that.

It felt on private.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, yeah. No, no. I. I think Indian culture and Jewish.

Culture are very similar.

Has a lot in common. And. Yeah, there's definitely. There are definitely certain things that you don't share, and you don't open up too much about. You wait till they're real and.

Yeah.

Taken care of.

Exactly.

Yeah. No, no, I respect that, and I get that. I think it's. I think it's healthy for people to, you know, find. I. I just. I just want to encourage people to think about, you know, whether they're a public figure or not. Who you share what with is so important. And. And just don't. Don't fall into the trap of, oh, everyone's being vulnerable. That's what it means to, you know.

Yeah. Well, I think that's, like, a byproduct of the Internet is, like, nobody really keeps anything to themselves anymore. And I think what started out as, like, a genuinely, like, good initiative to, like, open up about things is now, like, we're all sharing. We all know a little too much about each other.

You know, that's how I feel.

Let's pull back.

Yeah. Sometimes I want something like, we shouldn't tell us that. Like. Yeah, I don't think there was a.

Need for it, even myself. Like, today on the podcast, I was like, I got to go. I got to poop. And it's like, why would I say that and just say it again? Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And also, one thing's really interesting to me. I had a friend. I was at a friend's birthday last month, and he said to me. He was like, jay, like, I. I know. It's like, you never post what we're doing personally and privately. And. And I said to him, I said, it's because I'm really lucky. I think my. My public life's amazing, but my private life's better than my public life. And I imagine a world in which I'm sitting in an old rocking chair talking to my grandkids and talking to family and sharing these stories that no one knows anything about.

Yeah.

And there's something about that feels really sacred and special to me, and I really want that because I remember years ago, sitting with someone, and I'm not even family or close with him, but I remember sitting on a beach with him. And he was an older man. I was in my late 20s. He was probably in his late 60s. And he just had so many life stories to share. And he wasn't famous, he wasn't well known. And he just had all these cool stories that I was like, no one's gonna know these, but he gets to live them every day. And there was something about that. I was like, I want to have memories that are only mine.

Yeah.

Like, that was important to me.

I think that that's something I learn as I get older, but it also makes it complicated when sharing is your life. And I feel like there used to be a time when I would literally be sharing a piece of content. Every 30 minutes. I would have a cocktail and post, which is, like, so dangerous and stupid.

But what was the craziest?

Oh, my God. I used to be like, blackout in a drive through at Whataburger in Texas. Like, Blackout ordering, like, a crispy chicken biscuit, like, whatever. Like. And it was just. I looked so scary and I had ketchup all over my face, like. And I think that's why people, you know, that's why I have a lot of the following that I do. They loved that life, but that's not my life anymore. And it occurred to me, like, several years ago that I didn't have to share every thought that I have. One, it was getting me in trouble. And two, like. Like, yeah. Some things can just be, like, thoughts or memories or things that you keep to yourself. And so I do feel like my strategy has shifted. But it's tough when that's also how you make a living.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. Yeah. So how do you balance that?

I'm working on it.

Yeah. It's hard.

It is hard. I think that I've gotten much better. And I look at it a lot. Like, this is my job. We're putting out content, like, for the job. But it doesn't have to be, like, the most authentic 100, 360 degree view of my life. Like, I can have things for myself.

That's. It's good to know you're working on it. That's the point. Right. So none of us have figured it out.

No, If I went to, like, an Instagram story from 2019, I would die. I would die. I was out of control. Like, I just used to say so many things, like, stop talking. Okay, Stop. Like, not everything needs to be shared.

One thing I want to dive into with you. We've talked about Ozempic, we've talked about pregnancy, we've talked about marriage, and of course, we can keep talking about those. But I think. Think what often happens with someone like yourself. And I. I'm projecting because I feel this happens to me sometimes, but I'm projecting this idea that people don't see the hard work from a business perspective, the strategy perspective, the sleepless nights, the growth. Like, you've built something incredible.

Thank you.

And it's shadowed, not in a bad way, but it's overshadowed by this amazing Persona that you have have and your charisma and your aura and everything else. Right. It's like, it's. That's what we're watching, and that's what we're captivated by, but there's a really thoughtful business person behind it who's. And I don't mean that from a. Oh, you're just figuring out how to build a business.

No, I know. You mean.

Yeah, I mean it from like a. You've. You've figured out how to turn a Tumblr.

Right.

Page into, you know, a business. Yeah, exactly. Which. Which is really amazing. And I think so many people today want to do that.

Right.

So I wanted to kind of go back to the start and ask you, like, what did you want to be before Girl with no Job?

That's a great question. I almost, like, didn't have time to figure it out. So I started this Tumblr in freshman year of college, which is when people figure out what they want to do. And it very slowly, but also quickly, like, became something I was making money off of. So much so by the time I graduated, I was making, like, sponsored Instagram posts for a fee that would have been my salary if I ended up with, like, a job in media. And at the time, like, content creation was not a job. So when I made the decision, it just made no sense, like, to sit at a desk and earn a living that was comparatively small to what I was pulling from my Instagram. But people were just like, they couldn't believe it. And they're like, it's not going to last forever. It's not. And I'm like, maybe, but maybe. What if I just ran with it and it was really, like, inconceivable. To people that I was not getting a job post grad and that I would be, like, on my phone. And I understand why, because right after that, I was making a really good living, but I was doing nothing.

Like, I was home all day and I was watching a lot of TV and I was, like, recapping it and writing funny blog posts and I was making money, but I was not doing anything. Like, I had no structure to my day. I did not set an alarm. And it was lovely, but it was not fulfilling. And I knew that it wasn't a sustainable way. And that's why when we started the podcast, I loved it so much for a million different reasons, but it gave me structure. It gave me a day. Like, and now even to this day, I very much operate, like, a Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. I work 40 hours a week, like every other American. Like, and I think some people run from that sort of convention, but when you didn't have it, it was, like, kind of horrible. So I crave that sort of structure and stability. Like, seriously, if you're looking to answer an email for me after 5 o'clock, I'm not answering. Like, I have boundaries and I love that my life kind of mirrors that conventional work life. But that was a goal that Jackie and I like, set.

Because this line of work, while, yes, it can be very lucrative, it is kind of nuts, and it can be a little unstable. You have a month where you get a ton of work and a month where you don't get. So it was fun for a girl who was 21, but I knew it wasn't going to be, like, a sustainable way to live. But the funny thing is that I think there's, like, a large, you know, misconception that, like, I work an hour a day. People are always saying that to me. Like, it's like when you say someone from SNL works an hour a week, like, well, no, you see them an hour a week. You see me one hour a day on the show. But there's so much that goes into running a show of that size. And also, it's not the only thing that I do. I'm not bothered so much that people think I don't work. Like, whatever, you know, like, sorry, you're dumb. You don't know how the industry works. Like, I work hard. Okay.

Have you ever had a real job?

Oh, my God. Okay. So, yes, like, in the sense that throughout high school and, like, summers in high school, I was a camp counselor. I worked at a toy store by the. When I Went to college. All through four years of college I worked, I had an internship, like a paid five day a week internship at a media company. It was an internship but it was structured at like a corporate job. So yes, I did work in a corporate office for four years. Never like full, full time because I was part time student and I probably would have worked at that media company postgrad if I didn't decide to become a full time content creator. So like yes and no.

Yeah. What did you learn from the toy store? The internship that you worked at a.

Toy store was not for me. Like seriously, gift, gift wrapping is hell on earth. I still can't do it. And honestly when anybody asked me to wrap a gift, I actually have trauma from that fucking store.

Really?

Yeah, it was horrible. Like that stupid gift wrapping section. Like no matter how many times somebody showed me how to do it, like I could not fudgeing do it.

Here I am trying to make this amazing point that you learned all these.

Amazing just now I was trying to.

Put forward this idea that maybe you picked up all these really cool skills that help you in your career today.

But actually I will say like working at a toy store, like having to talk to strangers like who you don't know and like pretend like you know what you're talking about. That builds character. That builds actually like a great personable vibe in the corporate space. I don't feel like I learned much, honestly. I, I, I liked the free lunch. Like it was amazing. It was one of those big companies that gives you free lunch and there was snacks everywhere, like free snacks. I was always eating goldfish and M and M's and I liked, I don't know actually my sisters worked at the same company. It was this huge company with like different media companies within it. So they all worked at different companies. So we all would have lunch together. I have very fond memories of that time and I think it's a good corporate like media especially. That's like a lot of women. It's, it's a good environment to learn how to talk to people, learn how to deal with like workplace antics and people's personalities. And sometime sometimes I do miss like I think there's a lot of stability that comes with a corporate job.

Especially when you're thinking about like motherhood. I mean some of these bitches over here with their six months paid maternity leave, like that is a joy. And they're a corporate health insurance. There are a lot of things about like what people consider a boring corporate life that actually as somebody without a Lot of like, without a lot of that I'm very envious of, especially when I'm like entering this phase of my life. Like, me and my husband both have our own companies. Like, we don't have maternity leave. We leave leave and the company suffers. Do you know what I mean? There's no built in. We have our own two person health insurance. It's expensive and it sucks. Okay. Like people. There is a little bit of that privilege from the corporate life. And I know people who are in corporate would look at someone like me and be like, oh, I always wanted to be my own boss and it's great. But you know, there's no insurance.

Yeah. There's pros and cons either way.

There is 100 and I feel like I'm only, as I get older appreciating the pros of that. Sort of what people would say, more stereotypically boring life.

Yeah. And I think that that stigma needs to go as well. I think that there was this whole cultural shift towards entrepreneurship. Quit your job, build your passion. And it's like, I don't think either is for everyone. And I think we've kind of made.

Like, we've put, we've put more value on the, the ladder. The entrepreneurship.

Correct.

But to be clear, I feel like we did people a disservice when we did that because there is something lovely about a boring job that doesn't keep you up all night, that you can set boundaries with, that pays, that makes, that pays your bills and you don't own it. You don't overrun the company. If things are going south. That's literally not my problem. Like there is a piece in that.

Yeah.

Now you don't have as much creative control. Who cares?

Yeah. And also just like, I think about this very often. Like, I couldn't do anything without my team. My team are all employed.

Right.

Like, and it's like I couldn't last without them.

So it's like one of the best parts though.

It's amazing.

Being a business owner is like other people making their living from you.

I love it. It's the best feeling in the world.

It's the craziest feeling.

Yeah. It's the most fulfilling feeling. I, and I know I couldn't do anything without them, which is why I value. I'm like, are we going to push entrepreneurship, you know, to the hill?

Right.

But it's like, what would we do without our amazing team members? Like, I, I know I wouldn't survive. My chief of staff was like unwell for like A week. And I was just like. I was like, I don't know what to do.

Right. That toxic, like, hustle culture, entrepreneurship, I'm not a fan of.

Yeah. And. But was there ever a time you had to do it? Was there ever a time you did have to work 247 before when.

When things started to really blow up for me? But it wasn't this, like, standardized economy like it is now. Like, there's a formula. Like, you blow up on Instagram, you get an agent, you get a manager, you get a rate card, you get a media kit. Like, no, that was like, not the case for me. So when things started to work really quickly, I was doing all my own deals. I did not have a publicist, I did not have a manager. I did not have an agent. I didn't have an assistant. It was literally just me. And it was manageable because it was my full time job. But I don't know shit about fuck. Like, I'm literally 17. Like, somebody help. So I was just kind of making it up as I went. And I think people really underestimated me because I was advocating on my own behalf. I was 18. I'm much better now, but I used to have like a really thick Long island accent. And I was just like, every other word out of my mouth is like, and totally. And it's not necessarily giving you, you know, businesswoman. So I would get underestimated a lot.

And it was a unique time. Now the girlies and boys, but mostly girlies who end up doing what I do now, it's kind of all set up for them. But at the time, it wasn't a thing. People. Like, a brand would reach out and based on, like, if it was a brand I heard of, like, one of the first brands I ever worked with was Burger King. And they're like, how much would you want to. And I was like, a thousand dollars. And they were like, okay. And I was like, a thousand dollars. I bought a purse. I was like. And then I forgot, like, I had to pay taxes, but whatever. And that's another thing, by the way, when you do this line of work and nobody teaches you how to do your taxes. Not me. Getting a bill from the government, like in 2018 for like a hundred thousand dollars and unpaid taxes. Yeah. And my biggest fear is going to jail. But yeah, that's another thing they don't tell you and nobody teaches you. You kind of just have to lear now. I feel like it's pretty set up where if you join this line of work, there are certain business managers and accounts who know how to do this.

But at the time when I was getting started, it was like, girl, you're on your own. Good luck.

In a galaxy far, far away.

No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember?

Right. In our own world, we're two space cadets and totally normal humans. Chir. Totally normal human humans embark on a.

Journey across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time.

We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your.

Co pilot, especially when she's always right.

Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame.

It on Mercury retrograde or Emily's questionable space piloting skills.

Hey, join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and.

Super corny dad jokes.

Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid.

Any black holes most of the time.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jamae Jackson Gadsden. We're the hosts of let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcast podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do. Like resume specialist Morgan Sanner.

The only difference between the person who.

Doesn'T get the job and the person who gets the job is you.

Usually who applies.

Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like? You miss 100% of the shots you never take. Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better.

Than you rejecting yourself.

Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to let's Talk offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Have you ever been close to going to jail?

No. No. If only I was that interesting. Like, when I was a senior in high school, I went to go visit my sister Jackie at college, and it was a flight, so I packed up my things. I didn't have a. So I Grew up in Manhattan, so I didn't have a license at the time, which used to make traveling really hard because I didn't have any form of identification. I used to give them my high school id. They're like, this is not legally admissible. So I'd be like, I don't have a license. Sorry. I'm literally 17, and I don't have a driver. I don't have a driver's license. And for some reason, they pulled my bag, and they were going through my wallet, and they found my fake id, and they were like, I thought you didn't have. Now. Now I realize they were, like, doing this to scare me, but at the time, I thought I was really going to jail. They brought a cop out. She wants to call my parents.

Oh, my gosh.

She's swiping my hands. You know when you ever get like that? And they're like, you tested positive for explosives. I'm like, bitch, what are you talking about? I'm literally a high school student.

Wait, how do you test positive for explosives?

I don't know. I mean, I had gotten a manicure, so I imagine there was, like, some chemicals on my hands, but it was. So they were really trying to scare me. And this police officer was like, listen, I think you're a good kid. I'm gonna let you go. And I ran for my fucking life. I was so afraid. But I was never. I didn't break the law. I didn't say that this was my idea. It could have been my cousin Sandra. Like, it was the scared. Most scared I've ever been in my life, and probably the closest I've ever gotten to going to jail, which is, like, not that close.

Still, it was scary.

It was scary. And let it be a lesson to any of the minors listening. Like, put your fake ID in your checked bag.

Got it?

Yeah.

Put your fake ID in your check back.

Don't say I never taught you anything.

What advice would you have? Like you were saying, like, it seems like. And I agree with you, there is more setup. We kind of. Yeah, I think our careers actually. We didn't know each other then, but they took off around the same time. Mine was 2016 as well. Yeah, I was a lot older. I was 28.

Okay.

Yeah, 27. 28.

So you had, like, a pretty good idea of the world to some degree.

For sure. I mean, I never knew a person. I'd never known anyone who'd worked in entertainment.

Right.

Anyone who'd worked in media, anyone who'd done outside anything outside of London. So. So it was a whole new world for me completely. But you're right, there are more systems today than there were then. What advice would you have for people who are at the age you were when you first blew up, like 17, 18 years old? Because that's happening more and more now. Yeah, you were more of an anomaly.

Yes, that's because now I'm old in the space. Yeah. I have two. A really hardcore piece. Yeah, I mean, you're ancient.

Sorry.

I have two extremely important pieces of advice. If you find yourself wanting to get into this line of work. Like, I don't care who you are, where you're from, what you've done, delete all your old social media posts. Like, none of it is going to age well. It's gonna come back to bite you in the ass and it's gonna ruin your life. Like, if I had to go through what I went through, like, everybody found my old tweets and they were like, oh my God, she's crazy. Delete your tweets. I can't believe people are still having their tweets, girl. Delete your tweets. Like, stop. That's the first second of all is every dollar you make put 50 cents in an savings account for your taxes, because that's depending on where you live. Like, that's what it is. It's half. And the good thing is sometimes you save too much and then you get a little leftover. But just know if somebody pays you $100, you got 50. 50.

Yeah. Very pragmatic advice.

Well, the taxes have ruined my life.

Like, oh, tell me about it.

When, when before I had a business manager trying to do my own taxes with, like an old school accountant who, like, I think I got from like a family member. They had no idea what I did for a living. And so I was underpaying. I was under reporting. I was not getting any, like 1099s from the brands that I work with. It was such a mess. It was the wild, wild west. So much so that years later I got that huge bill and it was like the worst thing to ever happen to me. I almost had to go to pay payment plan with the government. Like, it was so crazy. And I think that happens a lot in entertainment, especially this, like new wave of social media entertainers. So finding a, an accountant, a business manager, or teaching yourself, that's fine, but as long as you're putting away half of what you make for taxes, like, you're safe.

Yeah. Don't you think it's incredible how Much you've learned in the last eight years?

Yes. Sometimes I go back and like, read my old emails of like, me, like, talking to people, and I'm like, girl, that's the worst email ever. But it's like, so cool to see how, how different I speak now and how I'm, I think, a lot smarter and able to advocate on my own behalf. And, and the little girl sending those emails from her couch, like, that's who I am.

Yeah, that's me. Did you ever pretend to be own manager?

A thousand percent.

What was the name?

Rebecca. I was always pretending to be my own assistant, like, trying to get dinner reservations, trying to set up calls. Claudia's available. Meanwhile, it's like literally me.

And it worked.

100% it worked.

Did they negotiate on your behalf? Sometimes?

Well, I actually was always negotiating on my own behalf. And I. Because I always found that like so many of the girls who worked at media companies, worked at agencies. These account managers were followers of mine, were listeners to the toast. And that's always worked on my own behalf, actually. I think like a huge demographic of my following is media girls, girls who, who work at brands, who work at agencies. And so it's always kind of benefited me to lead with me because they're excited to work and they want to make it work. And look, it's turdy on the other line.

If someone wants to be the next you and start the toast and, and you know, start their version, don't, don't.

Everybody's set. The toast is enough.

What advice would you have for someone who's listening to you, watching you, going, I want to build that. I want to create that. Where, where should they start? What should they think about?

Well, I would just get started. I think a lot of people are always talking about, they're like making strategy plans and outlines for projects. Just get the project up and running. You can record a podcast on your phone. The voice memo app actually is very high quality audio. It's good enough for a starting podcast. Then you can start to make money. Invest in the. Sure. Microphones that everybody has. Has. But before then, like, just get started. People are always like, throwing launch parties for things that don't exist yet. Like, just get to work. Do it.

Yeah. Don't. Don't overthink it.

No. And it's also like, it's a podcast. Okay. It's not like the nuclear program. It's just, Just talk.

What's the nuclear program?

I don't know. I don't know. I was trying to sound smart. I couldn't think of anything.

No, I love it. I. I couldn't agree with you more as well. I think there's just such a year. I feel like we're all stifling ourselves by procrastinating.

No more afraid of being judged. Right. We want to put something out that's perfect, but it's like, you don't get far without people making fun of you. Like, I'm sure my old posts used to get sent around my high school. Like, oh, my God, look what Claudia's doing. Cringe, cringe, cringe. Well, it's not so cringe anymore, like, girl, because I'm successful and you're not, but you have. That's just part. If you. If you can't take being mocked. Like, I wish that weren't the case because people are cruel, and it is what it is. And think about how you talk to your friends about people on social media. Someone's gonna talk about you like that, and you have to be okay with that.

Yeah. Did you lose any friends along the way?

No, actually, I've always been really good. I've never been that girl with, like, a thousand friends. I've always had, like, five really good friends, and they're the same friends. I love that, too. There. I've, like, the best friends. But, you know, you do notice people treating you differently, like, peripherally. And whenever anybody, like, started being extra nice or whatever, I always accepted it. Like, sure, you want to come to your Hamptons house? I'll be there. But, you know, you got to keep note of people who only started acting that way at a certain time in your life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have. Yeah, there is definitely that switch. And. And, yeah, I'm the same as you have. All my same friends from back in the day. I can't wait. I literally fly to London tonight to see everyone. So that's looking forward to just. Yeah, just catching up, kicking it. And it's. It's one of those things that I feel so fortunate that I had such a good group of friends right before everything took off. You must feel that with Ben, too, because it was around the same time.

So I was like, yeah, I guess I met Ben freshman year. And freshman year is also when I started my blog. I don't think it really took off till a year, but he's been there since the very beginning.

Yeah. How. How. How much do you think that.

That's a good question. Well, I often, like, thank the Lord that I don't have to date at all, period. Because I think Dating in this day and age is horrible. But also, like, with my weird job, like, I think it would just. I wouldn't even know how to explain it to people. And, like, I would just feel so, like, awkward and embarrassed. So I'm, like, grateful for that. But again, I think having this really stable force in my life in Ben, when it came to. When it came to, like, you know, how I felt about myself, how I felt about my dream job, like, I think stability is so beneficial when you're trying to build a business and, like, having someone to come home to and having a very stable personal life. I think it allowed me to be a little nutty in different areas of my life, like, my job, because I didn't have to worry that I was going to come home and it would be chaos. Like, Ben was always there. Just, how was your day?

Yeah, I think that's what it is. You just hit the nail on the head. I think there's certain stages in life where you go, if I decide this, it now no longer takes up any space. I felt that way about getting married. I felt that way about deciding which city we were going to live in. Because when we first moved to the States, we lived in New York for two years. Then we moved to la. We've been there for six years. When we decided we were living in LA and we got our place, it was like another thing.

Settled.

There was a settled. That freed up space. And I think we're currently living at a time where we struggle to make decisions because we don't want to kind of, you know, put our roots down. But actually that creates more chaos in.

Our lives, a thousand percent. And I think we also live in a culture that values that sort of like, wanderlust. So I live in my car and I don't care. I don't have a job. Well, I like a little bit structure, a little bit boring, a little bit settled. I think that's me getting older. But I also think it's just like, there's value in also leading a very sort of ordinary. That's one of my sister's favorite quotes. I forget. It's like, you know, being ordinary in your personal life, so you can be violent in your creative or artistic life because it's like you can't have a million balls in the air at one time. But so. So to have a very. I don't want to say regular, because I feel like that has a negative connotation, but like a very peaceful, very settled private life, it really does allow you to, you Know, for me, it's my work. For anyone, it could be something else just to, like, I don't know, up, you know, what's.

What's the hardest part about working with family and what's.

There isn't one, really. Yeah, I know. And I'm unique in that. I think some people have different family issues. I could never. I mean, look at how many female podcasting duos that. It's. Every day we're talking about another one breaking them up. Me and Jackie will be podcasting till the day that we die. Like, we are bound by blood. She's the only person I can really talk to, honestly. Like, I think a lot of people think I'm very confrontational because I'm loud and, like, a little aggressive. But actually, like, if I have a problem with you, I'll just start crying. Like, I cannot talk to people except my sister. I could say whatever I want, and it just, like, I don't have a single complaint about working with family. Family.

That's amazing.

Yeah, I know. I know.

I love that.

Me too. To some people, they're, like, so confused by it. For me, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yeah. No, I love that for you. I'm glad. I mean, it's. It's the best thing when it works.

Yes, yes. And I know I'm special and lucky that it does work.

How has your relationship had to change? Like, what's it meant to keep that up? Like, what have you had to do in order to have a sister relationship and a business partner relationship? Because. Because. Or are all your conversations always about the podcast?

Yeah, I mean, it's so intertwined. But interestingly enough, when Jackie and I were growing up, we're four sisters total, from top to bottom. Like, there's six years between us, so we're all really tight, and we were all really tight growing up. But, you know, there were different dynamics as we got older. Like, in the beginning, it was always the two older sisters and the two younger sisters. Me and Margo, like, we were just sort of divided by age, and Olivia and Jackie would, like, leave us out, and me and Margo were just, like, sharing a room. So we were like, okay, whatever. I guess it's just us. And then as we got older, my interests started to align a lot more with Olivia. And then Jackie and Margo became, like, really similar and really close to the dynamics of what we shifted. But the dynamics when we were kids were never Jackie and I. We actually probably got along the least. We did fight. We didn't hate each other. We just were not drawn to one another. So I would say we were probably the least close out of all four. Not that we had issues, but we were just not.

I don't think we understood each other. Jackie's very reserved. Jackie's very quiet, but not shy. Die quiet. Me. I'm spreading my legs for everybody. I'm like, what's up? Who you want to talk to? Let's go here, let's go there. So I think that I thought she was, like, you know, weird, and she thought I was weird. We didn't understand one another. And then when we started to work together, our differences ended up, you know, working in our favor. It made the conversations on the podcast more dynamic, and we just very naturally became so close through work. But also, so we were talking all the time, you know?

So wait, when you're. When you're putting out an episode, how much of it have you Talked about before?

0.

0. Literally 0.

0. Every single episode is completely off the cuff.

Everything about it.

We have, like, five topics that we need to hit every day, whatever the. The news of the day is. But everything else is completely off the cuff. Like, we've never once had a converse. Sometimes we used to sit on FaceTime for, like, an hour before we would start recording to get set up, and we would just end up talking, and we actually felt like it was ruining the show. She calls me at 10:30. We start recording at 10:31. Like, we do not. Not because we don't want to waste any of the. It's. We'll never recreate a conversation that's so fake. Like, we just go for it.

That's amazing. So that way, you're really catching up in that time, too.

Exactly.

Because you're avoiding talking the night before.

Exactly.

You saying what you did.

And she lives in a different state, so we have a lot to catch up on.

How. When did she move and when did you guys.

She moved? I think 2021. And I was like, okay, it's the end of the show. Like, well, we'll do remote, but who the hell wants to listen to remote podcast? Like, it's so Covid y and it sucks. And I knew that it was the beginning of the end, and I was freaking a little bit. And let me tell you what's the best thing to ever happen to us. 1. Because of COVID we were forced to really invest in the tech. So there's actually no delay, there's no lag. A lot of people don't know that we live in separate states. So I think a lot of times people are shocked to find out that Jackie doesn't live in New York anymore, which makes me so happy. And two, a little bit of the distance physically has benefited us greatly because we're no longer on top of each other. And we get to, like you say, have these natural catch up conversations that we might not be having if she lived down the block for me, which she did for many years. So it's actually been the best thing to happen to the show. And I thought it was gonna be like the beginning of the end.

What makes you feel like when you've recorded a great episode? How do you know?

Oh, my God. When we just laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh. Like, sometimes we are just so silly that I don't even think we're speaking English anymore. Like, it's just that sisterly thing where you really only act so normal nuts with your sister. Those are the best episodes. Like, true belly laughs.

Yeah. And that is something you can only do with someone you know very.

Exactly.

Very well.

Exactly.

And you guys call each other afterwards and like, oh, my God, you were so funny.

That's a good question. No, actually, it's so routine to us.

Yeah, it's become.

Yeah, that's kind of sad. We should be like, listen, that was so funny. No, we don't do that.

But it kind of protects. Why that hour is so good.

Yes.

Right. Like, that's the point.

Like, and we're not trying so hard. Like, we're just talking.

Yeah, yeah, that's. It's such a special skill. It's actually such a special talent.

I agree that podcasting is a skill and it's a talent because I think every. I mean, the running joke is like, you know, everybody has a podcast. Not everybody should, but there are a lot of failed podcasts. And I think that a lot of people think, like, yeah, I could talk for an hour a week. Well, I actually don't think you could. It is an art, especially with a co host, especially as an interviewer. When to talk, when to listen, when to stop. And so a lot of people don't possess that skill. And. And I appreciate you saying that because it's definitely a skill. The same way like, you know, any other job is a skill. Like, if you're a mathematician, you know, you need a certain set of skills, and podcasting definitely requires that too.

Yeah, No, I just like to point it out because I think we just. It is that I have so many friends who just like, I remember when, when I first started Creating content. And all my friends are like, oh, we could do that. And then it was like, this whole journey where everyone realizes that it's different. And I think with you, because it's so natural and because it's so off the circle tough, it can often be. You can kind of be like, oh, yeah, well, that's whatever. But it's like, no, no, no. There's. There's a real talent. There's a skill there. How much have you practiced over the years? Or was this who you were at school with your friends? Like, is this just who you've been? Where was the training? Where were the reps?

It's. This is always who I've been. Like, very.

Born this way.

Leading with, like. I've always loved attention. I've always loved to talk. I've always loved to make people laugh. But I do think that I have practiced and rehearsed a little bit in recent years. Years. Just knowing when to listen, that's always been my. That's the biggest critique people have of me on the show. And they're totally valid in that I never let my sister talk. I talk over people. I'm sure I've done it to you. I'm so sorry. Like, and I'm really trying. It's one of my worst skills, personally and professionally. I do it at a dinner party. It's so annoying. And, like, when other people do it, I'm like, oh, my God, she didn't shut up. And people are like, bitch, that's you. So I am working on that. I used to be much worse, so it's a work in progress. But it's important to know, like, your skills. But it's also important to know what you're not good at. And I know that I'm not good at knowing when it's my time to listen. Like, right now.

Have you ever measured how fast you talk?

No, but I know it's insane, and if you can believe it, insane. I used to talk so much.

And it's funny because me and you, I'm at the opposite end. Like, I usually talk so slowly.

Yeah, you're very measured.

Yeah, I notice it's so funny because when we're together, I'm just like. I'm speeding up slightly. Just.

Okay, I need you to listen to episodes of the toast from, like, 2019. I used to swallow full paragraphs. Like, I don't even know what I was saying. You think it's fast now? To me, this is me being so much better.

It's amazing.

It used to Be really bad.

It's amazing. Have you, you talked about there, like wanting attention. And I think anyone who's doing something publicly, naturally there is a part of them that enjoys the attention. Enjoys. I, I always say, like, I love when people come up to me on the street and say hello. I tell people in the podcast to say, hey, if you see me, come and say hello, I want to say hello to you. I, I really appreciate the feedback and the energy I get. I had a, I was walking a few years ago now, quite a while ago, with one of my clients who's a well known actor. He gets recognized a hundred times for every one time I get recognized. So super well known and successful and like, he'd get stopped. I'd get stopped once. He'd get stopped multiple times. I'd get stopped once. And I asked him like, how does that feel? And he said, you know what? He goes, yeah, you're really lucky. And I was like, why? And he said, you're lucky because people stop me for who I pretend to be and people stop you for who you are. And I was like, wow, like that really stayed.

Yeah, it's really stayed with me. It was one of those.

And you're not gonna tell us who it was?

No, I can't. But it was no fun. But it was. I. That's my private part.

Of course you'll tell me after we stop recording.

Yeah, but, but that was one of my favorite moments. It stayed with me ever since that. And I'm like, wait a minute. Like. And same with you. Like people when they're coming up to you and saying, the toast is amazing, or when I keep hearing, Jay, we heard you on the toast. It was so fun. You know, when I get that feedback from people, I'm thinking, oh, wow, like you're doing that. How have you been careful about your relationship with attention so that it doesn't get unhealthy? How have you thought about that?

You know, it's so funny. The more attention you get, the, the less you want it. And so I think as somebody who was an attention whore, I was an attention seeking whore growing up my whole life to end up in a line of work where you get a lot of of it. It's fulfilling for a second and then it's like, enough. And I actually feel like I say I'm an attention or I'm actually really not so much anymore. I like, I got the attention that I wanted and it felt good, but it didn't solve all my problems. Like I thought it was Going to. So not that anybody who's, you know, is an attention seeker should get the attention because then it'll. It's kind of a problem that fixes itself. But I'm really not. I think when people meet me, like, on the street, sometimes they're a little taken aback how, actually, I'm not like a dancing monkey. Like, I'm not so crazy all the time. Like, making jokes on, Like, I. I actually. And definitely, as I've gotten older, like, a little bit more pulled back, you know, I'm still a little nuts, more than the average person, but not.

Not, I think, as much as people would expect.

What part of your confidence are you still working on?

I'm really not, honestly. Like, I feel very confident in all aspects of my life. Like, I know that I'm great at my job. I know I'm a great wife. I know I'm literally gorgeous. Like, I don't feel like I'm lacking confidence in any area, honestly. Honestly.

Wow.

I have a lot of other problems, though, but not that. Like, oh, girl, where do I begin? Okay, what would I say is my biggest problem? I actually would say my biggest problem is sometimes my humor can be mean. And I think that's, like, the worst type of humor. And I'm actually really working on it. Like, when you poke fun at someone, sometimes I feel like I really take it too far. Like, it's okay to, like, think something and not say it, because I've noticed that that a lot that I sometimes border on mean, and I don't like being mean. That's not funny to me. I think some people feel like they have to be mean in order to be funny, and that's not true. I can be funny without being mean.

Yeah. And that's something you're working on?

Yes. Like, sometimes I'll say something, I'll be like, damn, that was rough. You know, like, and. And so I'm aware of it, and I'm really trying to stop.

Yeah.

Who knows if I will? At least I'm aware of it.

In a galaxy far, far away.

No, baby, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember?

Right.

In our own world, we're two space cadets.

And totally normal humans.

Sure. Totally normal humans embark on a journey.

Across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time.

We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your.

Co pilot, especially when she's always.

Right.

Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame.

It on Mercury retrograde or Emily's questionable space piloting skills.

Hey, join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and.

Super corny dad jokes.

Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid.

Any black holes most of the time.

You. You love the 1% evil. It's fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. No, that's so beautiful to hear. I mean, to hear you say, hey, you know what? I'm actually really confident. I love hearing that. I love it when someone says that. Because it's a journey. Yeah, no, but. But I mean, you've. Not that you've arrived because there is no arrival, but the idea that you feel that way.

I mean, that doesn't mean that, like, I don't see a picture of myself and like, literally want to die. But. But I don't. Try not to place too much value on that because there are other parts of me that are worthy, probably more worthy than how I look. But I am a shallow person. I do place a lot of emphasis and value on my physical appearance.

Yeah. Is that something you've ever tried to change or shift or you've just accepted.

It'S actually a new thing? I think since losing weight, I've kind of become obsessed with it. And that's like one thing that I've gained during my weight loss journey that I don't like the obsession with how I look. Because before, like, I knew I didn't look great. So, like, whatever, you know, I worked on other things. But then I started to really like the way that I looked on the Ozempic journey and I kind of became obsessed with it. Like, I used to weigh myself and be like, I mean, it's not great, but whatever. Then I would lose weight and when I would weigh myself and it wasn't exactly what I wanted, I would be so hard on myself. And I used to not care about that. So that's actually something I'm working on. But with a pregnancy, like, it's a problem for later. Me.

Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

I can't fix everything all at once. Okay. I'm not Jay Shetty.

No, no, no. Trust me. I can't either back. No, but it's interesting how. How sometimes the things we work on more become our greatest stresses.

Yes. That's definitely how I feel with my weight.

Yeah. And. And it's one of those things that it's. But the great thing is you're aware. And I think that's what I always think about. I remember when Kevin Hart came on the podcast, he was talking about how. In a very different context, but he was talking about how, like, some of the mistakes he made and not comparing at all, but he was talking about some of the mistakes he made, and they came from a place of him feeling like this was never going to go away. And then he was like, now I need to deal with the fact that one day I may not be as famous or successful as whatever. And it was just really interesting, him saying that when I still think he's crushing it and killing it. And he's like, you know, but how.

We perceive people versus how they perceive themselves is so interesting.

Correct. Yeah. And that's what I find is always fascinating because you think someone's peaking, living the best life. Yeah. And in their head, they're like, oh, I'm insignificant right now.

Yeah. But it does. Not that you want people to feel poorly about themselves, but seeing someone whom you perceive to be on top of the world talk about how they perceive themselves, and it's not necessarily, like, the best best. There is, like, solace in that. Even people who are killing it and rich and famous, like, even they hate themselves. So who cares if I do?

You know, I wanted to end with talking about. You know, you talked a lot about last year losing your dog, which, oh.

My God, I think no one prepares you for.

Yeah. I had so many friends who sadly went through the same thing in the last 12 months. I don't know what it was about the last 12 months. And maybe it's sadly always the case, but at least in my life, I had so many people telling me that. I had my business manager, a really close friend, like, just. Just so many people in life. We had Taylor Hill, who came on the podcast and talked about the loss of her dog, Tate, and just how hard that was for her. What has been your greatest lesson for grief in that journey?

So funny, because, you know, I lost my dad when I was in the eighth grade, or, excuse me, the ninth grade. Like, literally the first month of high school. Worst time ever. And it was extremely hard. And I actually feel like being younger, I was able to bounce back a little bit more. I remember going through that, and really, I just transferred schools, and then my dad passed, and I really didn't want to be known as, like, the girl with the dead dad. So I. I remember making an active effort to get back to my life, and I leaned so heavily into my sisters and that's really why my sisters and I are so close and my friends and extra and I really. And that's just being a kid, right? You're more susceptible. You're more adaptable. Like, you just bounce back. And I've found, like, when, you know, friends of mine now are losing parents, like, it's so much harder. Like, you're an adult. You understand the importance of life. You have kids of your own. And so not that it's the same at all, but, like, losing my dog at 29 was, like, the first experience with grief as an adult.

And let me tell you, it is so much harder. And this was, you know, a dog, not a human being. The difference was, and I have long wondered, my dad passed away overnight. Like, he was not sick. He had a heart attack, and he died before he even got to the hospital. Like, completely kind of freak accident. And people always talk about, like, is it better, you know, for someone to die like that or to get a chance to say goodbye to somebody who has, like, a terminal ill, but you have to watch them suffer for months. And I feel like there's no right answer. Just everybody thinks their own. And I never really knew what the answer was. But with Theo, he had terminal cancer, and we. We ended up putting him down, but so we lived with the cancer, I want to say, for, like, two or three weeks. Like, really not a long time. It was the worst time of my life. Like, it was worse than when he actually had died. Like, seeing something. You. Someone you love so much, be in such pain, it's not worth being able to say goodbye, honestly.

So oddly, that experience brought me peace with my dad. Like, I. Like, yeah, I didn't get to say goodbye, but, like, I didn't have to watch him suffer. Like, that's. It's definitely worse. And so the older I get, the Actually, the harder grief is, you know? Like, I remember getting married and being, like, so angry that my dad wasn't gonna be there and feeling like this was so unfair. But I hadn't really felt that anger up until that point. Like, the older you get, the more important life, moments, marriage, kids, you realize, like, how much you need a parent. And so as a kid, like, yeah, okay, he's not at my soccer game, but, like, you just are. You're more resilient as a kid. You really are. And so going through grief as an adult is 45 times harder. And that was just with my dog, you know, whom I loved more than anything. But a dog is not a person. And it was the Most challenging thing. I actually don't even remember it. I blacked out that part of my life. It's coming up on a year, actually, like, this week. It was the hardest thing I'd ever been through.

My. Like, seriously, I. Like, I. I can't believe I don't even think about that time because it was so. It was traumatizing.

That's so profound, though, the connection between the two.

I know. Well, it was. They were so polar opposite. It's like, would I have. I think I actually would have preferred just, like, to take Theo to the doctor and have him die. Like, the three weeks of diapers, of Medica. Oh, my God, it was horrible. And I felt like I was doing the wrong thing because, you know, it's cruel to keep a dog like that alive for your own. They're so clearly in pain. It's the right thing to do, to put them down, and if you're selfishly keeping them. And I said, I'm not gonna do that. And so when we woke up one morning, it was so clear that he was suffering. We were like, listen, this is cruel. We're keeping him alive for us. Like, we knew we had to do. Do that. And with my dad, like, I had always felt like, oh, my God, I never got to say goodbye. It was, you know, hi one day, bye the next. But what Theo. The passing of Theo really taught me is like, honestly, it's better. It is, I think.

What did girl with a dead dad, like, mean to you? Like, what did that kind of. Like, what did that symbolize for you that you didn't want to be.

You know, I just remember in middle school, there was a girl whose dad had died, and her. She was in my grade, and then her brother was in my sister's grade. And it was just kind of like the thing people said. Do you know what I mean?

Pointing and saying.

No, not pointing, but, like, if you overheard, like, another parent talking. Oh, didn't. Did you hear? It was just kind of what. What, you know, they were led with. And I didn't want that. I wanted to be a girl who was funny, a girl who was good at soccer, a girl who was beautiful. Like, literally anything. I did not want to have that to be the thing like, oh, did you hear about that Ashrae girl? Her father died. Like, I didn't want that to be the first thing people said about me. So I remember making a conscious effort to just, like, bounce back. And. And it did work for. For a period of time.

I can't imagine how challenging it is to, you know, be going. Be giving birth, having lost, and then.

Let me tell you, it sucks. Like, and I see Ben, who has both parents. I'm so happy for him, but I'm jealous.

Yeah. Naturally.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's bad.

No, no, of course not. Definitely not bad.

And they're the best. Ben's parents. Like, his dad is, like, always inviting me out on Father's Day. Like, but, you know, a parent is a parent.

Yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you.

Thank you for being open. It's. I'm hoping that. That. Yeah, I'm hoping that people who've been through similar things or, you know, I. I know plenty of people in my life who lost a parent early, and it's. It's something that's not talked about enough online. Like, you don't. You don't really hear about it.

Like, it's.

It's kind of like something you talk about in therapy and nowhere else.

Yeah, it's just, like, hard to talk about. Nobody wants to be crying all the time. And I think that no matter what stage of your grief that you're at, like, you can't talk about it without crying. That doesn't mean that you're not healed. It's just sad. Like, and I don't want to be sad. Like, that's my whole thing. Like, I love being happy. I love making people laugh. I love laughing. Like, if I'm laughing, I'm so happy. So I hate to, like, sit around. And that's why, like, I know when I talk about this on the podcast, people don't like it. But I don't do therapy, not for any reason. I'm not, like, against it. I know it's really powerful for a lot of people, but I've never really had a hard time communicating, and I'm very blessed that, like, I have a lot of people in my life who I feel completely open and comfortable opening up to. And I know that's a privilege that not a lot of people have, but I also, like, I don't know. I just don't want to spend my life being sad. Like, the world is sad enough.

Like, my. I wake up every day with the. The goal of, like, making people laugh. Like, I like to be joyous and spread joy and, I don't know, sitting in the therapist's office for an hour a week, like, crying, like, oh, my God. Like, seriously, I can't.

Yeah, yeah. No. And. And I think that everyone has their different coping mechanisms, like you said. And for some people, that is the only place they have a safe space and a space where they don't feel judged and a space where they don't feel, you know, looked at in a certain way because their family friends may be that way. And. And it's beautiful that you don't have that. I was going to ask you what's been your. Have you thought a lot about, like, your energy, baby's energy? Like what? Like, walk me through that?

Yes, I have a lot. Because, you know, people tell me that I'm kind of like a baby whisperer because I love to sing and I love to dance and I love to, like, I'm obsessed with babies. And that's what babies love, and that's what babies need, like, in their first couple of months, are always looking for somebody to sing and dance to them. And so that's the type of mom I want to be, like, super joyous, super, like, always singing. I don't know if you follow Jessie J, the singer on Instagram.

I had a Jessie. Yeah.

Okay, so she had a baby, and, like, she's always singing to her baby on Instagram. Now I know she has, like, one of the best voices in the world, and I don't. But, like, I'm gonna be Jessie Suj. Like, I'm gonna be singing to my baby, and my baby's gonna think I have the most amazing voice because my baby's gonna be my number one fan.

It's gonna be so funny if they don't.

Oh, my God, stop. I'll be so upset if, like, every time I sing, the baby cries.

Yeah, well, they'll love it till they're like, four.

Oh, of course. No, I'm talking about year one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One year. One. One. One fan for one year is good enough. I love that. I love that. And have you thought about whether you're going to be sharing Baby Journey online?

And I have thought about it. I definitely want to share my journey. Me. I'm pretty against, you know, putting your kids on social media. I don't judge other people who do, but I'm not going to. And I feel like I see a trend of people sharing less and actually pulling their kids off social media because the dangers of it are, like, so obvious.

Yeah, I know. That's something me and rather talk about a lot. Like, it's.

I would love to.

It's one of our discussion.

If the Internet wasn't such a disgusting place, I would love to, like, have fun, but no, we can't have nice things. People are disgusting and absolutely not.

Yeah, yeah. It's challenging. It's. It's such. Such a. Yeah, that's. That's the hard part. Right? That's the hard part. That it's like, in the same way as you wouldn't just put your kid up somewhere physically in that way that they're exposed to anyone and everyone.

Yeah. And they just actually passed that law in California about, like, family channels, and DeMato was a big part of it of, like, just child actors, but also child, like, family channels, like, basically exploiting your kids on social media for money. I. They're. They're all still actively happening, but I feel like in 10, 15 years, like, we are going to be hearing, like, the most craziest stories about kids who were forced to be on, like, YouTube family channels. It's disgraceful, but it's also a slippery slope. Like, you know, like, you start posting your kids, and that's the most engaging content. So you post more and more and more, and then you rely on it to pay your bills. So you're yelling at your kids to smile for the thumbnail. And I never want. I never want to be that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's great that you guys have. Because it's.

Actually, I haven't even talked to Ben about it, but I don't care what he says. Like, I love that. I'm sure he'll agree with me.

Yeah.

But we haven't had, like, a full conversation about it.

Okay, good to know. Good to know.

So he'll be hearing about this on the jshatty podcast.

Is this usually happening? It goes.

No, actually, certain things I feel really strongly about. And I say, Ben, like, this is what we're doing. Certain things he feels super strongly about. I'm like, okay, sometimes we both don't know how to feel. And there are people in our life whose opinions we, like, respect, and we'll call them and ask and. And get their opinions, and we'll come to a decision together. It just depends on what the topic is, you know?

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That's fair. If you feel strongly enough, it's a rule.

And.

Yeah.

And if you don't, it's a, like, as a half of a part, like a half of a marriage. Like, if there are certain things you don't have, like, strong feelings about, but your partner does. Like, so let them have that one. And then when you have strong feelings about something and they don't, they will let you have it. Like, that's the whole, you know, Shtick with compromise, but also knowing when you don't know. Like, some. All of this is new to me. Motherhood, pregnancy. And so knowing that I have no experience in talking to people who do and if I trust them. And I think that, like, their values align with mine. Taking their advice. But, like, it's important to know, like, when you don't know enough.

Mm. Claudia, you are. You're one of the most fascinating people. Oh, my God, I've ever met. You are hilarious. You're smart, profound. Today at times, I really didn't want.

To cry, but it is what it is.

No, I. I appreciate you being so honest and vulnerable with us and showing that soft side. Yeah, no, you know, like, for people to be able to see you can't.

Put Turny in a box. Like, she is going to surprise you.

I love it.

I love it.

Well, Claudia, it's been such a joy talking to you. Thank you for having me end every episode with a final five. Okay, these have to be answered in one word to one sentence. Not a Claudia sentence.

Okay. Oh, I promise I will do one word.

Yes. Yeah. One word or one sentence?

Oh, okay.

But. But not a sentence at 100 miles per hour where you squeezed in 79 words.

Not Jay calling me out. Okay.

All right. Okay. Yeah. I'm not judging you.

No, no, of course not.

Okay, so question number one. What is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

This isn't, like, you know, a curated sentence, so I'm just gonna, like, speak. And I think it's something I've realized as I've gotten older, especially as, like, a woman in the industry, you feel really competitive with, like, other people. I feel now like I like to work to live and not live to work. Like, I just would like to make a living. I don't need to be the biggest podcaster. I don't mean the number one selling comedian. I just would like to provide for my family. I think when you get really caught up in, like, the hustle culture, it's good to have ambition. Of course. But what used to be important to me is actually really not important to me anymore now. Like, just a job is a job. It's to provide. And. And that's it.

Great sentence.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Oh, God, I forgot about the sentence. Okay, sorry. I'm good, I'm good.

No, no, no, it's well explained. I would have asked you to expand. Question number two. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Oh, my God. There is a. Okay, sorry. It's Going to be more than one sentence. There is a phrase that I hate. It's called, like, being realistic is the quickest path to mediocrity. Like, I so disagree with that. I think being realistic is so important. Like, so important.

Yeah, good answer. Question number three. What excites you most about my motherhood?

I'm such an affectionate person. Like, I love all my nieces and nephews who are growing older now. They're, like, starting to hate it. But, like, I cover them in kisses. Like, I just am obsessed with kisses and hugs. And, like, this baby, like, is gonna. Like, this baby's gonna love me more than anyone. Probably end up liking Ben more. But this baby, like, is mine, you know? And I could kiss it as much as I want.

I love it. Question number four. What are you most excited to see about Ben becoming a dad?

Oh, my God. Like, I just know Ben is gonna be the best. The best. Like, most affectionate. The kids are gonna love him. They're gonna. They're gonna go to him. Like, I don't know what exactly I'm most looking forward to, but I feel a lot of peace and knowing that I'm bringing a baby into the world with, like, someone who's seriously gonna be the best dad on the planet.

Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

It should be absolute law. That everybody listens to the toast every single morning.

And then on. On purpose.

Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. Actually, no. This is my answer. Not on purpose. Sorry. Just the toast.

Oh, thanks. All right. Claudia.

No, it should be law. Like, it should be npr. It should be public radio.

I love it.

Yeah.

That's a great love.

Thanks.

I love it. Thank you.

And then I. Ultimately, you know, that affects my bottom line.

Claudia, thank you so much.

Me too.

Thank you. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child.

You could be reading something that someone is saying about you, and being like, that is so unfair, because that's not who I am. And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?

Captain's log, star date 2024. We're floating somewhere in the cosmos, but we've lost our map.

Yeah, because you refuse to ask for directions.

It's space gem. Are no roads.

Good point. So where are we headed?

Into the unknown, of course. Join us on In Our Own World as we uncover hidden truths. Navigate the depths of culture, identity, and the human spirit with a hint of mischief, one episode at a time.

Buckle up and listen to In Our Own world on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us, it's out of this world.