Transcript of February Bonus Episode: Smizing Through the Trauma

Hey, weirdos. I'm Milena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid, the bonus episode.

It's a bonus. It's a crazy bonus. It's a bonus about top model that was crazy in the day.

I've been waiting to talk about this.

I literally am so excited. I don't know if I already said this on the pod, but I have not stopped going around my house saying, How many people were afraid? And holding your hand up. And holding my hand up. How many people were afraid? And Drew can't stop going, Today we're going to learn about acting. Just please make sure Drew roaming around my home just randomly. Just yelling, Today We're going to learn about acting.

Also, we're thinking about possibly recording our bonus episodes on video in the future. Just so you know, I was just thinking about it because that movement would have been really good.

In the hand.

So just know that that's something we're thinking about. I think you guys will dig that because these are usually pretty fun. And we get lively with these.

It just means we have to get dressed more, which I did today. So we should have filmed, but we're still swollen.

It's fine. You're beautiful still. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. You're beautiful. It's true. You're beautiful. So I watched this in one fell swoop. Me too. I did the same. But I did it later at night, obviously, when the kids went to sleep. And John was with me and my mother-in-law was with me.

Oh my God, Karen, watch this.

They We're both horrified to the point where I was almost embarrassed.

Oh, no. Oh, no. Right?

Mikey agrees.

Mikey had the same experience with Dave, didn't you?

Were you almost embarrassed that you watched the show?

When Dave and I first started dating, he was like, Oh, I'm going to show you all my favorite shows. He's like, What's your favorite show? And I was like, Oh, I love this show, and I also love America's Next Top Model. And he was like, Are you a fucking Well, because we were talking about reality television shows because he is a Top Chef guy.

I love Top Chef too.

But America's Next Top Model was my jam. He's like, okay, let's watch it. And we started watching it and He was literally like, maybe you're not the gentle little lamb that I thought you were.

Like the actual show Top Model? I'm dead.

He was like, thoroughly, thoroughly horrified by it.

I was watching this as a... I actually remember when I lived at Mom and Papa's house back when I was little, little, me and my mom did, we would all watch it in the living room, remember? Which is wild. Like, as I was falling asleep. I watched this when I was five, I think, or maybe a little bit older.

Which is so not okay.

Then I think it started getting syndicated to it was either MTV or VH1, and I really watched it a ton in middle school.

Which is the worst time to watch it.

Anybody my age who was watching this back then, that's why we're all fucked up and have body image issues and all this shit. Oh, yeah. It's horrible because also the women that they were referring to as plus size. Oh my God. I'm sorry. Can we just start off right there?

We sure can.

The women, I am a plus size woman. The women that they were calling plus size were literally size six women. Size six is not plus size. No. That is ridiculous.

Well, not only that, they would refer to them as plus size and make it like...

It's We're going to be hard for you to find work. And then the girls who were not even considered plus size, but that they were sitting there being like, oh, my God, she's getting fat. She's huge. We're literally like, size two. Very like...

Normal.

Typical Fucking girls.

Beautiful bodies. And to have a bunch... It was like, one thing to have a bunch of other women critique your body, which is already bad enough, but then to have a bunch of men also sit there in front of you on a panel and be like, yeah, she's getting fat.

It's like, Fuck all you all. What the hell? Sorry, not for nothing. Obviously, all of these girls were 18 plus, but 18 nine-year-olds getting fucking criticized by 40-year-old men.

Weird.

Very weird. Weird. Upsetting.

Very weird. And He can mock in that documentary.

Okay, yeah. Let's start off there. Hold on. I have a quote from him.

He comes off, in my opinion. John literally- He comes off horribly. John was like, That man is the villain of the century, and he should be like, I don't even know. Where he should be run out of town.

Here's a quote to confirm that for you. The biggest disaster ever is always the best thing. People have a 104 degree temperature. They're throwing up. They need IVs. That's the best news I could ever have.

And I believe that. That's a quote. He stood 10 toes down on that.

That's verbatim. Like, Sir, sir.

Oh, yeah. When they talk about we'll get into the shandy of it all, dude, the way he handled that.

The way that everybody handled that was fucked. Like, It's that poor woman.

In my opinion, I know everybody is thinking the Jays and Nigel are not as bad. Here's the thing I will give them is that they're at least sitting there and being like, Yeah, I should have done something, and I didn't. I think J Manuel at one point said, I wish I had a backbone. I'm like, I do, too, sir. Because they're all fucking complicit. You were all there. And it's like, I don't understand I am personally, and this is my own probably character flaw that has served me well in some circumstances, but probably not in others. Like, the last place we worked, it did not serve me well. No. Is I don't understand hierarchy systems, and I don't understand when somebody tells me, This person is just this way and they're above you, so you can't. I'm like, No, no one is. I don't believe anyone is.

It was so funny just in our personal lives to see how that played out because I'm so used to that, because I worked in the hair industry, and when you first get into the hair industry, if you want to work anywhere that's top tier, quote unquote, you're an apprentice. It's similar to this. And you're a fucking peon and you do what you need to do that has absolutely nothing to do with doing hair to get to the top. So it was so similar. Exactly. I've been in that power dynamic before.

And I just did not... And I think it's my brain the way it works. I just... I logically don't understand hierarchy systems.

I think it's your justice complex.

Yeah, I think it just does not It never made sense to me. And I think here, there's sometimes where you would see, like Tyra, the judges refer to a girl and be like, you have authority problems or problems with authority. And I'm like, no, I think they just don't understand this stupid fucking made up hierarchy that you have. That means nothing. You're not above anybody.

Well, and Tyra would sit there and be like, you're a model. This is a designer. Exactly. Tyra, that's the premise of this whole fucking show.

Exactly.

I also have to say I'm actually I'm shocked that Tyra agreed to do this documentary.

I'm very shocked by that.

It was very similar, in my opinion, to the mom that agreed to do the documentary who was catfishing her child. I was like, Why? Why did you say yes to this?

You know that That's what my mother-in-law kept asking. She was like, why did she agree to do this?

Because she doesn't come off in the documentary at all. She comes off awful. She comes off like, very unapologetic.

They ask her about the Shandy situation, which again, we're going to go into it.

She literally goes, I I think I remember. And she's like, I wasn't there. I wasn't there.

And you're like, Wow, you don't give a shit at all. Yeah.

I think, should we really start with the Shandy situation?

Because honestly, that was the biggest shock for me.

That broke my heart because I remember, and I'm sure you do, too. Everybody does. Everybody does. Watching that and sitting there going, oh, my God, I can't believe she cheated on her boyfriend. Fuck Shandy. I loved Shandy. Me, too. I thought she was awesome. And even in that moment, when I still thought that she cheated on her boyfriend, I was like, damn. I still love you, but damn. Things happen. She didn't cheat. She was sexually assaulted.

Yeah. And they filmed the entire thing.

What we saw was such an edited down version of everything that occurred. I actually have a quote from Shandy, I didn't even feel sex happening. I just knew it was happening, and then I passed out.

Then they made it into a cheating scandal, complete with Tyra meeting with her the next day. And in talking about- And in talking about- Pretending that she didn't know what happened. Oh, have you ever cheated? I got cheated on, blah, blah, blah. Like acting like friends and just being like, you know.

I just casually bringing up cheating for no reason.

And telling her we can't give in to our carnal desires. Like acting like it was a choice. Yeah. And then filming her talking to her boyfriend Eric, who obviously was upset at the time and didn't know that that's what happened. Yeah. But then he, like filming her being called a stupid bitch.

Yup. And being screamed at.

By this guy that had been talking about the whole time she's been on the show and being screamed at and demeaned.

And then not only that, the aftermath, she said they tried to work it out. I'm sure she probably went home and explained to him the actual reality of the situation. And they would be out in public and people would walk by her and call her like a slut and stuff. She got crazy.

She got slut-shamed. Which also, get it together. Yeah, fuck off. Jesus Christ. But then she went on the Tyra Banks show after that, and she told her, I haven't watched it. I can't watch the scene. I don't want to. And you can tell she sitting there being like, I can't watch it because it's traumatizing. Of course it is. Tyra made her fucking watch it. And then was like, What do you think about that? Let's talk about it. I was like, You're diabolical. No. And for someone who's been treated shitty in the industry and it says that and created the show.

And you claim that's your whole reason why you created this show.

You're treating them the exact same way, if not worse. Yeah.

And that leads us to all the crazy photosheets that went down.

Oh my God. The fucking photosheets, the race swapping ones, straight up blackface.

And they sat there and they were like, yeah, I think Jay himself in that moment is like, I did not want to do that.

But you did.

Exactly.

Not only that- Say something then.

They then continued to do similar photoshoots in the cycles afterwards.

They did some where they had women in Native American headdresses. Yes. They had at least two full on blackface swaps.

Race swapping.

Race swaps. Like, race swaps. Like, photosheets where they just went right it.

Yup, those were bad. And then there was also the crime scene shoots that they did.

Oh, yeah, where they were murder victims. And it wasn't like... And it was like, this is when they had JL, which like, rest in peace, JL. I know. Jail Well, I thought was so fucking cool. I thought she was so cool. I thought she was beautiful. Yeah, all the above. It's such a bummer. But she had a friend who died while she was there. She got the news while she was there. And her friend had OD'd, I think. And then she is in that photoshoot with murder victims or crime scene victims. No. And she had to do- I think that was actually the one where they made her an addict, wasn't it? No, this is the one where they made her like she had died by strangulation.

Oh, was that what it was?

But she still had to do a death scene shoot. And then that's the same shoot that Dion, which once again, I fucking loved Dion.

All the girls that they like, particularly hated on, we were like, I love them. I fucking love them.

I love them. Dion, when they made them make up new names for themselves, and she calls herself Hoola Hey. I remember ever. I love Dionne until the end of time. Forever and ever. Dionne for life, Hoola Hey for life.

I don't even remember that.

They had to come up with like, model names, and she came up with Hoola Hey.

What world?

I love her. I love her forever. Iconic.

Absolutely iconic.

Her mom, when she was younger, died, or didn't excuse me. Was paralyzed. She was paralyzed, put in a wheelchair because somebody shot her.

And then they made her be a shooting shooting victim and then criticized her about not being dead enough.

It was wild. She was like, Yeah, sorry.

I was just going through it. Then on top of that, Kaylyn from another cycle, her friend, she got, similarly to J. L, news that her friend died, and they had her pose in a grave.

In a grave the next day. That was eight feet deep. Yeah. Truly wild. They did a shoot with unhoused and made them dress up as unhoused people, and they had to do it with actual unhoused people in the background. Yeah. They also did one Model Stereotypes, where I remember Meg, which also I loved Meg. Meg was like the rock and roll.

I loved her.

I thought she was so awesome. She had to be a drug addict. And her photo was her with a needle hanging out of her arm. And her strung out.

And they had another one. I can't remember. There was a set of twins.

I think Balemia was one of them.

Balemia. Yeah. One of them had to pose with literally cake all over her face in a stall of a bathroom. It was fucking crazy. Crazy.

Just like, and we're all watching this at the time, just being like, whoa, this is nuts. Because also none of those photo shoots were you... Their portfolios were not usable because that's not what models do.

Because they were so insane. Everybody was like, and I think the makeup really wasn't good. The editing on the photos weren't good. No. I think Danielle- They picked the bad photos. They picked bad photos on purpose. You I think it's during Jade, the Undiscovered Supermodel. They play her commercial. I think it was like a- Covergirl. Covergirl commercial. She's like, That's my worst take. Tara gets pissed and she's like, How many of you felt that it was your worst take? And literally, everybody raises their hand. A ton of them raises their hand. It's like, does that not go to show you that that's what was happening there?

I always thought that, too. I'd be like, I remember seeing better photos while watching the show while they're taking the photos. And then you get the photo at the end and you're like, what did they pick that?

It's like a blooper? You're like, why is she sneezing?

But I feel like, speaking of Jade, the undiscovered supermodel. One of the undiscovered supermodel. Personally, I fucking love Jade. Jade was wild. Jade, if you're out there, I love you.

Jade, I hope you're discovered, though.

I think Jade was a badass. I think she was... Of course, she had her moments. Everybody does. She was young.

Remember, she was so mean to Gina.

She was really mean to Gina.

But I think also they were definitely set against each other.

They were setting that shit up. Yeah, that was not her best. Those were the moments I was not team Jade. No. But team Jade for her confidence? Yes. And Team Jade, she was pretty fucking funny. When she's talking about being in, I think they were called Tutt Tuts, the car. Do you remember? No. When she's sitting there and she's like, I She didn't want to be in this open car because they were in Thailand, I think.

Yeah, I think they were in Thailand.

And the way she says it, she's like, in the in the tut tut, tut, tut. And then she's like, hoop-die.

She just the way she says it. I don't know.

For some reason, that one shot of her made me laugh so hard. Her personality is funny. They gave her the villain edit because she was confident.

Yeah, no, they absolutely did. They always just were like, Jade, you look like you're 40. Jade, you look so old. Meanwhile, Jade had gorgeous skin. She was beautiful. Gorgeous She was gorgeous. Yeah. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.

Jade was one of the ones that got that at it. Camille, I think. Watch the Camille season again. Camille gets fucking railroaded. Camille was just confident. She was pretty fucking quiet and to herself, and everyone was just fucking mean as hell to her.

Same thing with Ebony.

Ebony? They called her Ashy.

They called her Tira.

Tira called her a fellow Black woman. And she had some of the most beautiful skin I have ever seen. She had gorgeous skin. She She was a beautiful woman.

They also, during the makeover, which the makeovers were literally to personally victimize these women, they ripped her hair out of her head and were just literally sitting there talking about how awful her hair texture was, how none of them knew how to do it. And she's sitting there while they're talking over her head and fucking up her hair.

And she still looked gorgeous.

I was going to say she still looked great, but they ripped her fucking hair out of her head.

The other one was Jazlene. When she came the first time, she had this big personality and they shit all over her for it. Then she comes back and tones it down and they're like, Where's your crazy personality? She's like, What do you want? What the fuck?

There was another girl. I can't remember her name, but she went super... I think it was Jenna. Remember Jenna? She had great pictures. She went really far and was very talented. They were just like, Yeah, you're boring. So they eliminated her.

Molly Sue was the same. Molly Sue, I thought, was such a good... And they were like, We don't know. We don't get it. We don't get what you are. Was it Yaya was another one? Yaya.

She made a career for herself, honey.

Good for Yaya. They were also wildly racist to her. Oh, yeah. They had a designer come in and was like, You're just yelling your Africanness too much. And it was this white designer or stylist who was like, Yeah, nobody wants to just be hit over the head with that. Oh my God. And then when she would get upset and defensive about that because that's fucked up.

Because you shouldn't experience racism.

Well, and then she would just get the angry black woman thing where they were just like, You're being defensive. And it's like, No, she's just being a human being.

It was like, Tyra, you're a black woman.

What the fuck are you doing? Why are you...

She, Tyra herself says that's part of the reason she set out to do this show in the first place. She wanted to expose this part of the fashion industry, but change it. It's like, you just leaned in. It's like, you just exposed yourself. Because similarly, cycle seven, Jada Young, she had to film with a racist male model.

Oh my God, this drove me crazy.

He literally... They're all sitting at dinner because remember, they would go out with the male models after the shoot. This one was before. And he literally looks at her and says, basically, I don't like black women.

Yeah, he literally said that.

And she's like, oh, that's insane that we have to... I think they literally had to kiss on set the next day. They absolutely did. And then she got eliminated for that commercial that she shot with him.

You didn't kiss him good enough.

Which was like, what? She was uncomfortable because he was a racist fuck.

And she told you guys and everybody was like, The way they would react to that stuff. They were like, Yeah, I don't know. That's just stupid. You have to get through it. And it's like, You don't. But, you don't. Oh my God. So, Keenya. I loved Keenya.

I loved Keenya, too.

I think Keenya is... I thought she was a stunner then. I think she's a stunner now. I thought she was A plus. I thought she could have won that. But I also loved Naima.

I loved Naima. She was gorgeous.

But Kenia was told constantly that she was fat, which was absolutely insane. Janice, the amount of times that she was like, She's too fat. She's too fat. She's too fat. I'm like, She's beautiful.

She said she should be. What was the car thing that she said?

Did she say it about her?

I think it was about Kenia that she said that.

I don't remember what it was. It was horrible. Janice said awful things to women. But they had, so they would call her out for this. And then they had her, during the Seven Deadly Sins, be gluttony and make her lay in a coffin with garbage food all over her in a ridiculous get-up. Yeah. Ridiculous. Yeah. And holding a donut in her hand. And so she looks campy. She did what she could with the styling she was given. I thought she did a great job. Yeah. And they were like, they were shitting all over this, basically saying she looks like a drag queen. And it was like, okay, shut up. One that's not an insult. And also one that's not an insult. Two, you styled her that way. That's your fault. She didn't get dressed. You put her in there. And then she's holding the donut. And Tyra was like, after they've told her she's fat and disgusting.

And they literally were like, You need to watch your weight while you're here. Be careful. Yeah.

And they were like, She literally says, I would like to see the donut hanging out of your mouth. Why? So you could have shit on her about that?

That's exactly why she wanted that.

And then they go to Africa and everybody else is a gazelle, a fucking giraffe. Like these gorgeous animals. All these beautiful, graceful creatures. An ostrich. They make her a fucking elephant. And don't you dare tell me that that was like, Whoops, that just happened. They made It's crazy. The luck of the draw. And then they shit all over telling her they had to retouch her so much and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, what are you getting out of this?

They also would zoom in on her stomach. And when she was in a weird position, so it would make her still look like a normal fucking person, but it wasn't the greatest angle. And she's like, they would zoom in. They edited her eating a bagel, so it looked like she ate three bagels. And she's like, That was the same bagel that I was eating. That was just one bagel. They just made it seem like I was just pounding bagels the face. Yeah. It's like, damn. Even if she was, who cares? But why are you doing that?

On the subject of Kenia in Africa, they did this shoot where they were dancing with three guys, and this one model, Bertini, was already fucking all over her shit and making her uncomfortable. They're doing this dancing thing and he's touching her and grinding up on her. He's grabbing her ass. He's grunting and shit in her face. He's moaning in her ear. She was uncomfortable. She did what any woman should be able to do and said, Pause. Hey, I'm a little uncomfortable right now. He's like, Growning up on me. I'm very uncomfortable. First of all, they were all aggravated by her stopping. Jay can pretend that he wishes he had done something. I'm sure he does. But he needs to own the fact that at the moment, he seemed annoyed that she had stopped, and everybody else did, too. And they basically were like, Yeah, okay. At one point, Jay had to say, Don't grab her. Maybe stop grabbing her ass. Maybe. So you see that it's a problem.

It's like, take him off set. If the male model is grabbing the ass- You take him off. And she says she's uncomfortable, goodbye.

I will say Jay said in an interview, he wish he had a backbone during that, and he wish he had said stop and taken him off set. It's like, that's nice that you recognize that now, but where were you in the moment when she was dealing with it?

She literally, Kenia, sat there and said during the shoot, she was nervous about stopping the shoot because as women, you never want to bother anybody or say something's happening. She said to herself, What would Tyra do? Yeah. I think this is how Tyra would handle it.

This is how Tyra would handle it. I would like... And they shit all over for it.

And Tyra herself was like, No.

In judging, they literally were like... She was like, Hey, so this was happening. First of all, they picked a photo where he was touching her. Literally grabbing her leg. Catching her leg. Yeah. Like, literally grabbing her leg. Literally grabbing her leg. And she's like, That wasn't a coincidence. And they basically tell her, like Nigel's like, well, you need to be in control in that situation.

I'm sorry.

But sometimes I'm not. And also, I'm sorry, man, you can't tell a woman I need to be in control there when I'm trying to take control. That's the thing she tried to take control. And no one's doing anything. And he's sitting there being like, there's cameras all around. There's people all around. Yeah, no one protected her.

That's the problem.

That's even worse. You're all sitting there saying, oh, well, there's so many people around. Why was she feeling uncomfortable? Because a whole sea of people were doing nothing to protect her. That's why she felt uncomfortable. And then Tyra sits there and says, well, you can do it and say, boy, you better back up off me. But she's like, but do it in a fun way where it doesn't put static in the air.

Stop sexual harassment in a fun way.

We don't want to make the sexual harasser uncomfortable. Keep it light. We don't want to do that. We don't want to make the man who's touching you without your permission to be uncomfortable with the situation. Yes, we do.

Like, take him off set.

And there's so many times during this where it was like, you are peons and you should endure this behavior.

And also it's like, this is the industry. You're wanting people to sign up for this? Yeah, and this is the way you're treating them? Fuck that shit. And you're sending Again, saying you want to expose the industry. You're being the industry right now. Exactly.

And also the amount of dangerous runways they put these women on.

Runways and photosheets. The runways, though.

Like the pendulum one. The pendulum one could have killed a woman. That's insane. There was also one where they had to walk on docks on the water. The runway was on the water, and one of them had her hands. There was no way for them to be apart. She couldn't have paddled water. It was like a strait jacket almost in front of her. So if she fell, she's drowning. What the fuck?

Mikey pointed out my favorite photoshoot, I do have to say, but the one where- Who was it? Mel Rosen?

Oh, yes. Carrie D. Carrie D.

And all the lights go off and they're like running through the fashion show as the brides. I loved that.

Which also Melrose.

Melrose.

She got a bad rap. Melrose is another one.

Yeah.

I think Melrose should have won. I have to be quite... I liked Carrie D. I really did. But I think Melrose was... I think she was robbed. I think She was given such a villain edit that whole season. I remember you and I were talking about it. When we originally watched it, I was like, Melrose is such a bitch. We didn't like her. And now I watch it and I'm like, What the hell was I thinking?

It goes from Melrose is such a bitch to Melrose is that bitch.

She is that bitch. Because then we go for that same season, Carrie D. When they did that photoshoot in the pool and she got legitimate hypothermia.

The fact that a woman literally got hypothermia. And they were annoyed. I think the whole premise of that photoshoot was like, We're going to subject you to extreme temperatures because that's being a model.

Yeah. Get in this freezing cold pool.

And then they blamed her at judging when she was like, Yeah, I got hypothermia. Isn't that crazy? They were like, You really need to know your limits. Yeah.

And she was like, But I thought you would get mad at me if I stopped.

And I think she did try to stop or pause, at least. And they were like, okay, you're being frustrating.

And then they're like, know your limits.

She's like, I tried to tell you my limits and you were mad.

Like, excuse me? And the same thing with Cara Dee that always annoyed me was, it was during the the thing where they had to pretend to be like Matador's.

Oh my God. When she told Nigel to take the stick out of his ass. That's one of my favorite scenes.

She said, all she said during that was, oh, did you take that out of your ass since last panel?

That was hilarious.

That was funny. Get over yourself. That's a funny joke. They lit her up.

Yeah. She almost got eliminated over that. Oh, yeah.

And like, they lit her up over that. I was like, I thought that we could take a joke. I thought that was a funny joke.

I thought that was hilarious.

It's because it's a man.

It's true.

He was not happy with that. Fun fact, I once saw Nigel at the airport.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't say hi to him. I forgot about that. I feel like he... I don't know Nigel, but I didn't feel like I wanted to be like, Oh, my God. You're like, I don't know. Hi. You're like, Don't say anything to me, please. Yeah, but I saw him in a restaurant.

I thought that joke was supposed to be light-hearted and funny.

It was.

I will say maybe Nigel handled it even, I'll say, a little better than they did at Panel.

I don't even remember.

I think he just- Because he took her aside and was like, You don't really know me. So don't make that joke. But then at Panel, they really shot all... Because then they turned it into... He turned it into like, Hey, you just don't know me. So making that joke is weird to make when you don't know me. Yeah, which is fair. Which I can get on board. But that panel, they were like, He's a photographer and you're a little bitch, and you're not allowed to do that. And it's like, Can we not turn it into that and just make it like, Hey, you don't know me? So don't make that joke.

Everything became a hierarchy, though. Yeah.

I mean, remember, Brooklyn? Who was just... She was literally not even... And they sent her home the day she was graduating high school.

That was the... Okay, not only that, by the way. They didn't send these girls home. I remember. And obviously all of us watching were like, oh, my God, now they're on a plane and going home. And that's so sad. Nope. They got sequestered. So they literally just moved out of the model house and into hotel rooms. So they had to film packing their bags, and then they just had to sit in hotel rooms for the rest of the season so that they didn't tell anybody else what had happened.

They couldn't go home, couldn't see their family.

And couldn't call anybody or anything like that. No, that's fucking crazy. So your dreams as an 18 to early 20-something girl just got absolutely crushed. And now you're just sitting alone in a hotel room after they've probably promoted that you should have an eating disorder. Yeah. That's good. That's great. That's awesome. That's very cool. Was there any mental health people on set?

No, no, of course not. No. And it's like, I feel like they would do that shit on purpose. Like, brook getting sent home on the day she was graduating high school.

Absolutely. That's not a fucking coincidence.

And then I think Tyler was like, You graduated. You just didn't walk. I'm like, You're an asshole. You're an asshole. And Anne also, I think she was eliminated for a photoshoot that they had to do with Fabio. And I was like, She's like a baby. Yeah. And this is like a romance shoot with Fabio.

I forgot about the Fabio shoot.

Like, are we really... That's where we're sending her home. She couldn't get that into it with Fabio. And she's a literal child.

Well, not with the other thing.

Can we take it down a notch, everybody?

That was the other thing, too. It would be like, if you were too into it, they were like, well, this reads porno. Oh, yeah. And then if you weren't into it, they were like, Well, this looks like shit. And they were It was very hard to find the middle ground of where you were supposed to be sexy enough, but not too sexy or not too little.

Some girls, they would literally be like, She has zero sex appeal, which I was like, Whoa. Then it's weird to be talking about, like freshly out of high school, young girls in those terms. Absolutely. There was one, the season with Marjorie and Samantha. She's like, tall blonde, just out of high school, literally months earlier. They did a Jeremy Scott runway show. And they were blindfolded. Jeremy with his mullet wings. A mullet ass. The way he talked to this girl, I was like, shame. Because seeing a panel of adults sit there and allow these young women, girls, to be talked to and humiliated like this, they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Absolutely.

And again, I don't get the hierarchy here at all. No, it's weird. Because they did the runway show. Apparently, everything was fine. She gets in there blindfolded in the runway because, of course, that's real. Obviously. Obviously. She gets to the end and she puts her hands on her hips and she moves her hips back and forth. It was a short dress, so it slightly rode up, not even crazy.

But mind you, he said, Show me your personality. Show me your personality.

At the panel, he sits there and said, This girl is fresh out of high school, months out of high school. He berates her, tells her it's not her show. She's not a rock star. And then he goes, I don't know, did you see a poll at the end of the runway? Oh, I'm sorry. Are you saying that to a freshly 18-year-old, you fucking piece of shit? Yeah, that's just fucking too far. That's the weirdest shit to say to someone. First of all, to say that to any woman, fuck you. And then two, to say that to a young girl, check yourself. And the other thing that you were saying earlier- And he said it several times. He did. It was fucked up. He said that she was a combination of a truck driver and a stripper.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. You were saying it, too. She had met him before and she really admired him. She liked his designs.

He said they had a great conversation.

And they had a great combo. And then she thought it was a total- She thought it was a total- And just fucking humiliates her on national television. Yeah. Wild. Wild. Speaking of humiliating people on national television, we would be absolutely remiss to not mention the Tiffany of it all. Tiffany. Which, by the way, they touch on it in the documentary series. So much of that flip out that Tyra had was edited down. And they literally said that. I think it was Mr. Jay said that lawyers were on set the next day. Oh, yeah. They all said that. And there's been a couple models that have come out since the documentary air and said, You would not believe some of the things that were said.

Which I'm like, what the fuck was said?

And I don't know if they had to sign NDAs or something. I know. It seemed like what is- It seemed like what is- It seemed like what is- It seemed like what is- And here's the problem.

Tiffany, so she got eliminated. She walked over to the girls. She was joking with them being like, It's okay. It's okay. She was... They're teaching these girls. One of the things they're trying to teach them is to take rejection because they're going to face it a lot. So she's handling the rejection. She's saying, You know what? It's okay. It's fine. Just be in chill.

Not only that, also, by the way, Tiffany had done so... Tiffany had literally completed anger management courses because she was struggling with her anger. And she came back for a second time and killed it. And killed it, got eliminated, and handled it really well. Yeah.

Like, that should have been, actually, she should have pulled, to be honest, she should have pulled her back up there and been like, Tiffany, I'm really fucking proud of you for how you handled this. Right.

Like, you've come so far.

This shows me that you're going to go far because you have taken what you have learned and you just applied it here. And applied it. Good on you. But instead- That's what it should have been. Instead. Instead, Tara's pissed that she didn't break into a thousand pieces in front of her. And so she decided, well, I'm going to make her break into a thousand pieces in front of her. And she fucking rails into her. I mean, that's- I've never in my life you all did a girl like this. That's where the, We are rooting for you.

We're all rooting for you.

How dare you comes from humiliates her.

She also sits there and humiliates her family. She's like, Your grandmother got her lights turned off for this, for you to be in this competition. Yeah. You don't take it to a place. You don't take it to that level, no matter what. No. And you don't, in the middle of that, take it to a place of talking about her family situation. No. That's none your fucking business.

She handled the rejection humbly. I loved Tiffany. I thought she was hilarious. I really liked her. I could not... That stressed me out when I watched it when it was on, and it stresses me out now when I watch it. That's so humiliating and demeaning. Then for Tyra to just be like, She really... She sat there in her... Everyone was saying her Inspector Gadget fucking trench coat. That was She gave up nothing. She gave up nothing. She really didn't. At one point, she says, You know what? You're all going to have to face some shit sometime, and I hope you do it with Grace, essentially, being like...

I didn't come up with a show about young models. I did not come up with a model. Subjecting them to crazy ass hair makeovers and cold pools and shit. Like, Babe, I'm not going to get called out for this.

I wasn't sitting there calling all these girls fat while saying that you wanted to change the industry.

And sitting there saying, I hope you all have to answer, Tyra, you didn't answer for anything.

You answered for nothing. You basically said like- You passed the buck.

Well, it was of the time. It was production was there.

I wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't me. I don't know. It was just real shitty.

Or the... What was the... Was it the Tiffany thing? No, it was the Shandy thing that she said she didn't want to talk about.

Or was it the Tiffany thing? She literally goes... She was like, Yeah, I remember what happened with Shandy.

And it's like, wow.

And then- It was the Jay thing she didn't want to talk about.

The Jay thing she didn't want to talk about. The thing that I I just thought was the absolute funniest thing throughout the entire documentary was at the end when Tara was like, And like, When you get called out, blah, blah, blah, blah, I love her. I thought she was a queen then. I thought she was a queen now. She is stunning. I was so happy when they... I was so pissed off that they were trying to get her to close her gap and that she sat there and she stood her ground. She was like, no, I love my gap. My gap makes me me.

Tyra was so mad. She was. Seeing this woman sit there confidently saying, I like my gap, this is who I am. I'm going to get there with this, pissed her off so much. You could see it.

Yeah, well, she just wouldn't. She was relentless.

She would be like, You really think. And at one point, remember, she stuck her finger in between her teeth and she goes, Is it really beautiful cover, girl? You really think you're going to be like that?

And I was like, Fuck you. You are such a bitch. Meanwhile, does anybody get the London look?

Yeah. Holy With the giant gap.

It's gorgeous. A gorgeous girl. I don't even know if it was the next season or if it was a couple later.

They opened a girls gap.

They gave a girl a huge ass gap.

Which shows you exactly what it was all about.

It was wild. And then while we were talking about dental procedures. Joni. Joni's dental procedure. She literally has dental issues with her bite and God only knows what else. To this day, however many years later, they fucked her mouth up.

They forced veneers onto her teeth. Oh my God. Which are so like that. You have to continuously get that fixed.

Do you remember her when they had already shaved her teeth down and they had to send her home for it to wait? Like the pinpoints. She was like, And these are our teeth. She was like, Look at my teeth. I was like, My God, Jody.

And just having her before that.

And then just pose for a photoshoot the next day. They also would...

And back to Danielle really quick, what really pissed me off. Oh, I know exactly where you're going. Was how Tyra harped on her fucking accent and was so mean about it, so offensive. Super offensive. And she would mock her and be like, You really think you're going to get a contract like this? I was like, Oh. I was like, That's where she comes from. Fuck you. I love her accent.

Yeah, I love Danielle. I love her the whole way through.

And when she She had to go to the hospital in Thailand.

She had to go to the hospital in Thailand because she had food poisoning, dehydration, and exhaustion.

Nigel said, You're high maintenance, aren't you?

No, I was just sick, bro. She was just sick. Also, if you remember, she left the hospital early. I'm pretty sure against medical advice. Yes, she did. She didn't want to get eliminated. Yeah. Like, hello?

It was just like, guys.

And then the thing that actually I think the the biggest thing for me, I think this really was the biggest, was Danielle, she won, right? She was one of the winners. Yeah. And then she went on and she lived in this model house. Oh, yeah. And she's sitting there month after month, day after day, not really getting any jobs. And all these other girls are getting jobs. And finally, one of the girls that she was close with was I told her, I talked to an agent and I asked, why doesn't Danielle ever get booked on jobs? And it's like, because her portfolio doesn't work, none of these things work. And we have to treat them differently because they were on reality TV. And Danielle said she later had a I had a conversation with Tyra and Tyra admitted, I knew that there was going to be certain doors that just wouldn't open for you guys because you were on reality TV and I didn't do anything about it.

It's like, why did you, why?

You continued just to do this. Yeah. For however many cycles. What is there? Like, 24 cycles total? Yeah. Like, what the fuck? You knew what you were doing. The biggest takeaway from this documentary is that this was never a show for young, aspiring models. This was a show to humiliate women and just subject them to national quality.

It really was. One more one that I was just thinking about Toccara.

Yup.

I loved Toccara. I loved Toccara, too. She was another one that they beat the person personality out of. She had this amazing personality, and then they just beat her down. And then shit all over her about being beat down. And I remember she was at a photoshoot, and they didn't have any clothes for her. And the stylist was like, You think I can get a rack like this for you? And I was like, Oh, fuck you. I was like, I can't. And then they put her in this big orange fucking valet button-up shirt and khakis. And she, quote unquote, didn't sell it. Yeah, and judged her based on that. I was like, Come on.

It's like, nobody was going to make that look good. And she still looked good.

And also, hey, dumbasses. We all know you knew she was coming.

That's the other thing.

You can have any clothing for her.

You can absolutely get clothes. That's on you guys. That's not on Toccara.

Yeah. But they put it all on her. It was such bullshit. And then they shit all over her for getting beaten down. It always made me so mad.

Yeah. There was just... That documentary was wild. Oh, and then recently somebody, I don't know if it was somebody at UPN or if it was CW, Because part of the documentary was like, Tyra said she had to fire the two J's and Nigel. It recently came out that she was allegedly never told that she had to fire them. Allegedly. That's what one person who works there said.

You know what I'm interested in? Because I think we need to do another part of this when the other documentary comes out. The other one? Which is coming out next month.

Oh, is it next month?

Yeah, I think it's March something, '16. Oh, so it's really like a few weeks. I think we should also do another one when that one comes out because I think that's going to have more of the participants on it. I'm interested to see what they say.

Apparently, that one's also going to have Janice. Yeah. That's going to be wild.

Which Janice was fucking horrible. She was. She was really mean to those girls.

I think she was also really struggling with mental health and addiction back then. So maybe she is going to look back and say that she regrets some of that behavior. I hope so.

Let's hope. Because it's no excuse to treat people like shit.

Exactly. So I hope it's something she regrets. I hope so. If you guys haven't watched the documentary, I thought the parts where the distance we're speaking.

Yeah, I wanted more of that.

We're really good. I think the... Tyra really just didn't give a lot in my opinion.

Tyra gave nothing. I think she gave nothing. It was just passing the buck and making faces. And then Jay and Nigel and Ms. Jay, which also I feel so bad about what happened to Ms. Jay.

I do, too. I love Ms. Jay.

I really liked Ms. Jay. The other thing is, I think Ms..

Jay wasn't really there. Ms. Jay was the walking coach and then was on panels.

Yeah, which also Ms. Jay had some moments where they were not...

They were not great.

Yeah. So it's like they were all part of this. There was no doubt about that. But they all acknowledge, at least the three of them are acknowledging that it was bad. I will give them that. But I do think you got to take some responsibility.

Yeah, take a little more accountability.

That you weren't part of it.

But that Ms. J suffered a stroke. Yeah. Obviously, they all work together for years and years and years. Yeah. And Tyra never went to visit Ms. J. Yeah.

Which was wild. And still hasn't called Ms. J. Yeah. According to.

According to the dock, as of the doc. That was really sad. Yeah, that was sad. Because also Ms. J literally taught Tyra how to walk. Yeah.

It was wild. I know. And the fact that Ms. J is now having to relearn how to walk, killed me.

I thought, I believe that. But I think she will, again. I absolutely think so. Yeah.

When Mr. Jay, when he wanted to leave because he was being like, Yeah, I'm good with this.

You could tell, too, and he says it, too, when you look at his face when he's presenting certain photoshoots- You can tell it's like- Because it got to... I think he was the creative director in the beginning, but then he wasn't the creative director after a while. Who knows who was coming up with the shoots? He was just presenting them.

Yeah, and that was after he tried to leave.

Yeah.

I think he talked to her. He sent this big long thought out thing, and she had responded just, I'm disappointed. I am disappointed. Then sheiced him out and would not speak to him. Yeah. Actually made it such Which makes it a horrible working environment when someone does that. Yeah, it's a toxic work environment. And then fired him.

Yes. However many seasons after. But the other thing is, if you watch, and they show little clips of it in the documentary, I think this season that he comes back after he basically just wasn't allowed to leave is the crew ship one. She's joking with him on the panel, and you can see on his face that he's like, what the fuck?

That he's confused. Why are you joking with me?

Because clearly you're being just completely ignoring me off camera. Then on camera, you're like, L-O-L, best friends.

It's a wild documentary.

It is. It's just like this is all the stuff that has come out. Yeah. Imagine the stuff that just hasn't hit the surface yet.

And I think when we hear more from the participants in this next documentary that's coming out, I think we're going to get even more. Yeah, I think so, too. I'm interested to hear it. And we can do another one of these to go over what happens in that one because I'm sure there's going to be new shit that comes out.

Yeah, Definitely.

Yeah, it's definitely it's eye-opening.

It's worth the watch for sure.

I would say so. But it's really disturbing.

It is disturbing. Drew said he fell asleep on the last episode, and he said he had really weird dreams.

Yeah, that John didn't like it. John literally was like, he couldn't finish it. He was disturbed by it. Yeah. Like, couldn't imagine. He was like, this is awful.

It's probably weird for men to see what women are subjected to on a pretty regular basis. Probably. It's probably weird for them to be like, what the fuck? Wait, what? You guys just have to deal with that? Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think we pretty much had everything that we wanted to. But like you said, I'm excited to hit more when the new one comes out. But let us know what your favorite moments of the... Or not favorite moments, but just jaw-dropping, shocking moments were in the comments. Yeah.

I know there's probably stuff that we didn't even touch upon because there's so much.

Yeah. So let's chat.

Let's really work through this. Let's work through this, guys.

Let's heal together. Millenials, let's work together. All right, guys. Thank you for Tuning into our little bonus episode for February. We'll be back next month with our March bonus, and that is going to have a special guest. We're going to be reading Postmortem by Patricia Cornwell. So if you haven't read that, definitely read it. If you have read it and it's been a while, brush up on it because that's what we're going to be talking about. It is so good. Elaina's read it like a million times. I have. I love it. I'm reading it for the first time right now, and it's really good. Trust me. And we are going to have Chef Riley on the pod for that. I'm so excited. I've followed Chef Riley forever. He's the best. And it makes sense because he himself has a book coming out in March. It's called a Little bit Extra. So definitely go follow him on Instagram @chefreillymean.

You won't be disappointed.

You will not be disappointed. Our bonus episode is actually coming out March 31st, which is the day that Chef Reilly's book drops. So definitely go pre-order that. And tune into the episode.

Do it. And I think that's it. It's going to be fun.

Okay. We love you guys so much. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you... Keep it weird. But not so weird as Tyro Banks, but.

Yeah, totally.