Transcript of Episode 632: The Suspected Crimes of Guy Muldavin

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It's morbid.

This is morbid. It's like an update on a case that's coming a little late because we don't know when anything comes out. Yeah, you know that. For one. Then two, this has a lot of... It has its own cases associated with it. This is like a whole thing. This is a very late discussion discussion again of the Lady in the Dunes case and the update.

Oh, I've always been so interested in that case. And then when the update finally hit, I was like, Oh, damn.

You said, Oh, shit.

I said, We should cover that.

And we are. We're going to talk about the suspected crimes of Guy Muldaven.

Let's go, sister. It's raining, by the way. So if you hear any pitter-patter, that's why.

It is. Yeah. We have skylights above us. You know. It's so soothing.

It's so soothing, but it's like, Hello, Wendy. Outside and it knocked over my Christmas plants.

And it's knocking out the WiFi every now and then. So good luck to us. So everybody, hang tight.

But anyway, sorry, I interrupted you because that's who I am as a person. You did.

That's really rude.

It's who I am as a person. How dare you. So I guess I'm rude.

You're a rude bitch is what you are. Whatever. No, you're not. So we're going to talk about this. Let's go back to the original Lady in the Dunes case first. So When a girl walking on a pea town, that's Provincetown. I'm going to call it pea town, though, because that's what I know it as. When a girl walking on a pea town, Massachusetts Beach, discovered the decomposing body of a young woman in the summer of 1974. It It began as an investigation into what would definitely become one of the most notorious and well-known cold cases in Massachusetts history, for sure. Oh, yeah. But just in general. Yeah. Anybody who had an interest in true crime or had looked into any true crimey things, you would come upon this case and the enduring mystery that was associated with it. The victim who remained unidentified for nearly five decades. Just crazy. That's wild. This victim and her killer were the source of so much speculation, too. We even talked about it in our episode about it. Yeah. This speculation and theorizing ranged from being an extra in the Jaws films. To a victim of the local mob.

Yeah. And Whitey, of course.

The local mob. Yeah. I was like, indeed. And Whitey, who was his own thing.

I thought he was anti-mob.

No, he's part of the mob. Oh. He's anti-drug.

Anti-drug. That's what it is.

He's anti-like, well, I shouldn't say anti-drug, but look into Whitey Polter.

Everybody's grandpa has a different opinion of Whitey, okay? It's true. In my mind, I thought he was not the mob. Hi, Papa. That's funny.

So after decades, literal decades, like I said, of complete mystery, not being able to tie anyone to this, DNA from the remains of who was known as the Lady of the Dunes was subject to extensive genetic matching and was finally identified. She was 37-year-old California resident, Ruth Terry.

So sad.

Oh, it's awful what happened to her. Young.

So awful. 37 years old.

Yeah. A year later, authorities in Massachusetts announced their main suspect in the murder was Guy Muldaven, who was Terry's husband at the time of her death. Muldaven died in 2002. Oh, motherfucker. So he couldn't be prosecuted for the crime. So the case was finally closed. But identifying Ruth's killer brought an end to literally one of the most enduring murder mysteries in Massachusetts, for sure. But identifying the lady of the Dunes and who killed her turned out to be actually the beginning of a brand new series of mysteries. In fact, investigators soon learned this might not have been Muldaven's first murder.

I mean, given how brutal it was, that checks. Yes.

And in fact, it's one of several mysterious disappearances that all link back to him. Oh. Yeah.

I hate that he died and didn't serve any time for- I hate that that guy died.

Any of this. It pisses me off.

And literally did get away with this.

Yeah. Let's go back to the Lady of the Dunes in case you need a little bit of a recap here. On the afternoon of July 26, 1974, Leslie Metcalf, a local town girl, left a friend's cottage along the National Seashore and began chasing after her dog. When she reached the dunes about a mile from the Race Point ranger station, Leslie could hear the dog barking from somewhere close by. She walked about 50 yards into the brush, and she ended up seeing something strange, but she looked at it and was like, I think that's a dead animal. So her first thought was like, I don't want to get too close. And she's like, And I should grab the dog and get the fuck out of here because the dogs are going to try to eat it. Yeah. She got a little closer just to grab the dog and get out of there. But when she did step closer, she noticed that it wasn't an animal. It was clearly a woman, and she was very clearly dead. In fact, she had been dead for some time, and the cause of death appeared to be a fist-sized hole in her left temple.

My God. Leslie ran to tell her parents what she'd found, and a few hours later, the beach was absolutely crawling with investigators, detectives, crime scene text, press, you name It's been a very popular vacation destination. Since the 1940s, P-Town, Massachusetts, has been a popular vacation destination. Oh, yeah. Still is. Oh, yeah. Huge. Very popular. Yeah. Huge tourist. So much fun. Yeah. Because of this, other places that are like this can understand this. Because of this, the local officials do have to deal with a fair share of crime. Of course, yeah. Be it small crimes or big crime. It's not like it's this crime-ridden area. It's just when a bunch of people are coming from all over the place, you're going to get some undesirables. Of course. You call some shit. Now, and honestly, this is a very popular place to go stay or vacation at for several months of the year. So at least for those several months, that's when they really have to worry about crime ticking up. The other times, pretty chill. But rarely had police dealt with the cruelty that they saw here. Based on the advanced D-Comp, the medical examiner estimated that this woman had been laying on the beach for at least a week, but probably longer.

The body was lying face down on a beach blanket. Her head was nearly decapitated from her body. Wild. Her skull had been bashed in with a blunt object. And both hands and one forearm were missing. It appeared as though her killer had left her with her head lying on her clothing, which had been neatly folded.

That's the part that always got me.

Very strange. Yeah. And there was no signs of resistance, like I was saying. So that led investigators to theorize that maybe she had known her killer. One park ranger said there was no sign of a struggle. Even the sand hadn't been disturbed. There was very little evidence really at all collected at the scene, and there was no identification on the body. So they knew that was going to be a challenge to tell who she was. And remember, we're in the '70s here. I was just going to say. Now, during the autopsy, the medical examiner found evidence that the victim had been sexually assaulted, and this is very graphic. I apologize. She had been sexually assaulted by a piece of wood, which is absolutely horrific. She had been subjected to strangulation, and the cause of death was listed as blunt force injury to her skull. So she was tortured. Absolutely. The hands and teeth of their victim had been removed as well. At least some of the teeth had been removed. They theorized that this was probably done to dissuade an identification. Of course, yeah. Now, The medical examiner also noted that the victim, they could tell from what she had left, that she had extensive dental work done in recent years.

They described it as New York style and estimated it to have cost anywhere from 5,000 $1,000 to $10,000, which now is a lot back then. Even more. Even more. As investigators expected, attempts at identifying the victim without hands, without some '70s. That's really, really difficult anyways. And in the '70s. Exactly. It's difficult to identify someone when you have all those things sometimes. Right. Never mind when that's gone. So the press dubbed her the Lady of the Dunes. As far as the local police knew, no one had been reported missing. No one had come forward to identify the woman in the police sketches. So they weren't really confident that she was a local at that point. And they were correct. While it was not unusual for young people or that didn't have the means to rent a room in the area or any other cottages for them to sleep on the beach. That was not a strange thing, especially in the '70s.

And also a really nice area.

It is. It's beautiful. The victim's extensive and expensive dental work suggested that she was probably not from a working class background. That probably wouldn't have been what they were doing.

She would have been able to stay somewhere.

Without any leads or any way to identify the body, the case went cold within a few months. In October of that year, the remains were buried in an unmarked plot in a local cemetery. Which is so sad. It was so sad because she just went into the ground.Unknown.Unknown. Completely.

But brutalized and unknown. Now, over the years, as advances and science and technology brought forth new investigative techniques, things like DNA, and even fingerprinting became more advanced. All these things advanced. The body was exhumed and examined for new clues, but nothing ever really came out of it. No significant leads. At this point, it is just this woman's body. They didn't know who she was.

It also gets harder and harder.

As decomposition advances. In the absence of any leads or any suspects, members of law enforcement and the public started to speculate as to who this person could have been because they were like, somebody's got to come up with something here.

Yeah, we got to theorize a little.

Yeah. Some believed that she was an extra in Steven Spielberg's film Jaws, which had been filmed that summer on Martha's Vineyard, and maybe they thought she drifted over after production ended. Sounds cookey a little bit because you're like, she was an extra in Jaws, but it made sense as well.

Everybody in P-Town at the time was an extra in Jaws.

Yeah, so you were like, maybe. And others thought she was the missing attempted murderer, Rory Kessinger, who had escaped from a Plymouth jail the previous year. Some thought she might have been a victim of Boston mob boss, Whitey Bolger.

That's the guy.

Who often spent time in P-Town and was known to remove the teeth of his victims. The whole hands thing, the really going to extensive length to stop identification did come off very mob. Yeah, definitely. Every theory, no matter how cookey or unrealistic it sounded, was investigated and ruled out. The investigators here, I remember when we'd covered this, I was so taken by how personal the investigators took this case. They just did not want to let this go. It was not something that they were willing to...

Good Massachusetts folks.

Just good Massachusetts guys. You know these cops are all right. But after decades of investigation, detectives never made any progress on the case, no matter how hard they tried. But they didn't let it go. Finally, in the fall of 2022, after nearly 50 years, Massachusetts FBI agents held a press conference to announce that thanks to the beauty of DNA analysis With an extensive genealogical research, the Lady of the Dunes had finally been identified as Ruth Marie Terry. She was, a Tennessee native wife and mother. A mother?

Yeah.

Investigators spent the better part of a year investigating Terry's husband at the time, Guy Muldaven, who again died in 2002. The DA wrote in a press release in 2023, Based on the investigation into the death of Ms. Terry, it has been determined that Mr. Muldaven was responsible for Ms. Terry's death. Now, according to the DA, Robert Galibois. I love that name. Galabois. The couple had married five months before. Just five months before. Five months in Reno, Nevada. I'm sorry, I say it wrong, but I'm from Massachusetts. That's how we say it. And drove across the country to Tennessee to visit Terry's family after they got married, then traveled up to New England that summer. So they had just been at her family's house in Tennessee. That's unreal. When this man did this as soon as, right when they left. Yeah. And this is even worse. When Mel Davin returned in the fall, still driving Ruth's car, by the way, he told her friends and family that she had just passed away.

What?

Yep. When Ruth's brother pressed Mel Davin for answers because what the fuck, she's 37 years old. What do you mean? She just passed away. Mel Davin said, that they had a fight during their honeymoon and he had not heard from his wife again.

That does not check.

He made some mention of her running off to join a cult and said when she didn't return, he sold her belongings.

Nice.

Yeah. Ruth's family never believed this explanation. They always suspected that he had done something to Ruth. But without any evidence to disprove what he was saying. What are you going to do? Their hands were tied. Of course. Which I feel fucking awful for her family.

To know in your gut that you're right about something as serious and as devastating as this and to not be able to prove it. Yeah.

Torture. It must have been torturous. Torture. It's awful. In their press conference and press releases, the district Attorney's office revealed few details about the investigation or the circumstances that led to Ruth Terry's death. After killing Ruth in P-Town, Muldaven returned to California, where he had an antiques business. He married two more times and became active in his community in Salina's before again, dying in 2002 after a long illness. His obituary in the Californian described him as an artist, actor, and poet.

Not a douchebag.

But made no mention of his several previous marriages. Also, every time I hear the Californian, I think of the SNL skits, The Californians. Oh, I feel like you showed me that one. And it's one of the funny skits. I think it's like a running skit that they have called the Californians.

Is that where they're trying to give directions? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, I know that one. And they have a California accent. I laugh every time I hear the Californians.

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Now, descriptions of an elderly guy Muldaven really didn't match those of a man capable of committing a brutal rape, murder, and dismemberment. One friend told The Independent in 2023, he was great. I really loved him. I mean, he was terrific, and I was very close to him. But the more investigators learned about Muldaven's past, the more plausible it seemed that, yeah, he would kill his wife. Absolutely. He wasn't so terrific. Also, it may not have been the first time he did it.

I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me, given, again, how brutal her death was.

Also, my goodness, that he can have somebody who is actually close to him after this be like, No, he was a great guy. I loved him.

You also feel so bad for those people who must just feel- Because my goodness, he duped them. Exactly. So duped. You think you know someone and then you find this out about them. Yes.

It's like, What the fuck? It shows you how he was able to compartmentalize pieces of himself.

Which is so common in these kinds of people.

Exactly. You can see it throughout his life. This is how he's a very big manipulator. He's a good charmer. He's a good con man. You can con anyone.

He's able to get, did you say three wives or four wives?

He had several wives. I don't even know how many he had at the end.

To get that many women to marry you, you have to be somewhat charming.

Absolutely. You have to be able to turn it on. Now, Guy Rockwell-Muldaven was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico on October 26, 1923.

I think that makes him a Libra.

Oh, Really? I'll check.

Uh-oh.

He's a Squapio. There you go. He was like, We do not claim him as Libra. We do not. No. He was given up for adoption at birth, and he was quickly adopted by Abe and Sylvia Muldaven, and he was raised on a little cattle ranch in Tiberia, New Mexico, along with his brother Michael, who was six years older. Not a lot is known about his early life, but according to a press report, he was, Schooled in Switzerland, New York, and Connecticut, and was tutored privately.

He was well motherfucking off.

He was doing okay. In his younger years, it looked like the family traveled extensively through Cuba, Germany, Italy, France. Damn. Court documents show that in addition to the ranch in New Mexico, the family, quote, bought land and properties in towns in the late 1940s and mid 1950s. So they had houses and places to live in a lot of places.

They were flushed with cash.

In 1942, Muldaven moved to New York, and he decided to change his name. He changed his name to Guy Raoul Rockwell. Huh. Yeah. And took a job as a professor at the Academy of D dramatic Arts. Which I did not see coming. I did not see coming either. It was there that he met and soon married his first wife, Joëlen Loop.

Oh, that's a cute name, Joëlen.

I know. An adorable name. I love that. Joëlen Loop. I love that. A former beauty pageant contestant and model. Oh, stop it. Not long after marrying, the couple relocated to Fortuna, California. I had to look that up.

Yeah, it could be Fortuna or Fortuna.

It got to sound like Fortuna. I don't know. Where Guy found work as an actor, singer, an occasional DJ at KIEM Radio. There you go. It is in California where many people believe his criminal career began. Uh-oh. It began in a really scary way. It began with the murder of a young couple on a beach in Yurica. Oh, weird that it was on a beach, too. Yeah. That's very weird. Now, on the evening of June 17th, 1950, 28-year called Henry Baird, a delivery driver for a local bakery, showed up at the Sweet Shop, which was a local Fortuna Diner, to meet his girlfriend, Barbara Kelly, for a date. The couple went to a movie, and after they went out to Table Bluff, which is a popular lovers lane overlooking the water.

I love a Lovers Lane moment.

Everything seemed to have gone fine, smoothly. But the following morning, a local fisherman and his son, getting ready to go out on their boat for the day, discovered the body of Henry Baird, lying on the beach, nude, except for shoes and socks. He was laying face down and had what appeared to be a bullet hole in the back of his head. His clothes were in a pile not far from his body, and along alongside his clothes were several pieces of women's clothing. But Barbara Kelly was nowhere to be found. Now, police arrived at the scene pretty quickly, but aside from the clothing, there was really nothing to be gathered or any witnesses to question. This is like a lovers' Lane situation. The lighthouse keeper at the nearby Coast Guard Lighthouse station told detectives that Henry's car was the only vehicle he'd seen come down the road to the bluff that night, but he never saw it leave.

Okay.

Now, the car was found a few yards from his body, both doors ajar, and the 22 caliber pistol that he was known to keep in his gloveful compartment was missing. As far as investigators could tell, there was really no sign of a struggle where he was found, and a $20 bill was found in Baird's wallet among the clothes, indicating that robbery was probably not the motive here. His body was taken to a mortuary in Fertuna, where the Deputy Coron, Dr. Gavin Goebel, performed an autopsy. According to Goebel, he found several pieces of a copper jacketed 22 caliber bullet in Henry's brain, and he expected his death was instantaneous. At least there's that. Now, according to Goebel, the bullet entered the back of Henry's skull and exited the front right side of his head. While the bullet was clearly the cause of death, he also noted that Henry's skull seemed to be unusually crushed for so light a bullet as a 22 caliber, and the coroner suspected that maybe he had also been struck in the head. Oh, Okay. Now, the murder of Henry Baird was the most obvious crime for investigators, but it was followed very closely by the question on everyone's mind, which was, Where's Barbara?

Where the fuck is Barbara Kelly? According to Barbara's parents, Henry and Barbara had been dating for a little over two months, and despite their difference in ages, there was nothing concerning about their relationship to anyone. Okay, well, that's good. On the night of the murder, Barbara had left a quickly scribbled note for her parents telling them she was planning to spend, quote, Saturday night with a girlfriend in eureka. She was a little fibby-fib. You don't fib. And that was the last they'd heard from her, which is very sad. After clearing the scene on the beach, investigators started talking with the press. One deputy told a reporter of the motive, It could be anything. Maybe she ran away. Maybe she and he made a suicide pact. We're still in the dark. I feel like in the '50s, they love to just be like, I bet it's a suicide pact. I feel like that was a thing. That way back then, I feel like it was like, Maybe they did this. You know what? I bet they decided to have a suicide pact together. It was like, why?

It also like, why would she then run off to do it elsewhere?

Yeah. Why? I don't get it. For qua. I don't get it at all. Now, within a few days, the Sheriff's office had put together their initial theory that the couple had indeed made a suicide pact and that Barbara had shot Henry in the head, then removed her clothing, and walked into the ocean to drown.

I don't think most people, aside from Ophelia and Hamlet, would choose that.

Please sit down, investigators in the 1950 case of this, and tell me where the fuck you came to that theory.

That's a leap. That's a leap. That's a leap and a jog and a run around the corner.

That's a triathlon. That's a marathon. Yeah, that's something. Now, operating on that theory- Leap triathlon, jog around the block. Searches for Barbara were launched from the air on the beach and even in the ocean. Wow. But when they failed to find literally any evidence to support their belief, investigators were forced to rethink that theory. It's like, also, what if she was kidnapped, you all? That's the thing. You're thinking she shot him in the head and then tried to walk into the ocean? Yeah. Like, wow.

Like, weird.

Yeah. But okay. Or if Charles Rabb told a reporter, We have no idea what happened. You don't say.

I'd rather you say that.

We have no idea. Then he said, There is no indication of a third party involved, but we are investigating that in every other possibility. There's no indication of anything. That's the thing. You're making it seem like only the two of them have to be involved in this when you say something like that. Just choose your words better when you're explaining this. Say, We don't know what's going on. This could be anything. We will update you when we know it. Keep it short and sweet. We don't think another person was... It's like, no, there's no indication that anything happened here except for people died and someone's missing.

Yeah, keep it simple.

Those possibilities included Barbara having been killed at the and dumped elsewhere, and that the couple could have been attacked by a patient who'd recently escaped from the Napa State Hospital. That was seen in eureka, which is chilling. Now, within a week of the murder, the Sheriff's office had called in detectives from the State Department of this to help them in the investigation, and they had largely changed their theory. Now, the Sheriff's office was, quote, working on the theory that the couple were followed to the beach. Baird was slugged and shot to death by an intruder, and Ms. Kelly was kidnapped napped or perhaps killed. I'm like, that's what I would have gone with at first.

Versus suicide pact. Yeah.

In the meantime, the residents of Fortuna started pitching in to offer a reward for information leading to an arrest. Okay. But leads in information were not a coming. They were really scarce. While state detectives began expanding the search efforts, lab results and analysis of Baird's body and the bullet evidence from the state lab finally came back. Okay. Initially, the coroner's office had stated that Baird had been struck in the in the back of the head and shot with, likely, his own 22 caliber weapon. But according to the state's authorities, the bullet was not a 22, but was, quote, of the explosive type, and its caliber could not be determined, Exactly. The exploding bullet. So it's like there's certain bullets that when they enter, they just shatter and will cause like, immense damage.

And that's possibly why that they saw more damage than usual.

That's what accounted for the severity of the entrance at the back of the head, so probably didn't get hit in the head. It was just the bullet. Oh, man. By the end of the month, the case had gone cold, and the press was beginning to speculate that the murder of Henry and the disappearance of Barbara, quote, may join the other unsolved killings which Dott Holt County's history. After two weeks of intense investigation, neither the local or state detectives had managed to find literally any evidence, and they had not found any trace of Barbara or Henry's missing gun. The only lead they had, which officers discounted as a, quote, crackpot theory was a letter mailed to the sheriff's office from an Oakland, California address. The writer claimed to be the killer and said he'd committed the murder out of jealousy. But investigators had failed to locate the writer, and they just wrote it off as a prank. They just didn't find him, so they were like, We can't find him, so he must be a jokester.

Yeah.

Even Blanche was like, Fuck that.

Blanche is like, Yeah.

I was like, You good girl? In the winter of 1963, more than a decade after the murder of Henry Baird and the disappearance of Barbara Kelly, Gail Patrick-Irish, an inmate at the Atascadero, I almost couldn't say that, state hospital, confessed to three murders, including the deaths of Henry Baird and Barbara Kelly.

Okay.

Now, Irish, who was serving a sentence for, quote, sex perversion, claimed he was prowling around the beach when he came across them in their car. He said he forced them to strip, shot and killed Baird, and took Ms. Kelly to a logging site about 20 miles north of eureka. Once they reached the remote area, he claimed he sexually assaulted and murdered Barbara. Okay. Which sounds fucking terrible. The detectives from the State Department of Justice, he had just enough details of the case to satisfy their belief that he was at least possibly responsible. Yeah, you can see why. Also, he claimed to have committed a similar crime around in Yuba County in in that instance against a 13-year-old girl. As evidence of his sincerity, Irish offered to lead investigators to the bodies. So they received approval to take him from the hospital to the sites in Northern California where he said he had left his then 13-year-old victim. Now, unfortunately, once they arrived at the supposed burial site, Irish failed twice to lead them to the body and indicated he might not be able to remember. Oh, that's good. Humboldt County Sheriff Edward Hurle Gilbert told the press, though, We have a very definite feeling Irish is the murderer and is sincere in helping us locate the body.

What makes you feel that way?

I don't know. I feel like it would have been when he said he wasn't going to lead you to the body. That would have probably changed my view on that, but me, I'm not a sheriff.

Call me crazy.

Who am I? Who am I to say? That's the thing. A few days later, investigators arrived at table bluff with Irish, who claimed he would trace the route from the beach to the logging site.

Guys, I think he just He doesn't want to be in his cell today. Exactly.

He wants some attention. This is where he claimed to have left Barbara Kelly's body. But after nearly a week of searching, Irish had still yet to identify the site where he'd left Kelly's body. Let's bring him back to where he is supposed to be. Although Irish had directed investigators to a logging camp approximately 20 miles from the beach, when they arrived there, they found that it was totally wildly overgrown, which he insisted made it difficult for him to recall accurately.

Oh, okay. Sorry about that.

Now facing over the increasing likelihood that they had fallen for a dumb lie, the Sheriff's office recommended that Irish be subjected to a polygraph examination to prove he was telling the truth, also to prove that they were not falling for something. But when he returned to the hospital after failing to find either body, doctors at a Tascadero explained to investigators that he was, quote, too unstable to be a fit subject for a lie detector test to be valid. Awesome.

Yeah. Love to hear it.

For months, the Sheriff's office remained absolutely committed to believing Irish's story, and even insisted they were going to search the entire area for Barbara Kelly's remains when the weather improved. Over time, though, it became very clear that there was no body at the logging site, and the case went cold again.

It's really sad that they had so much hope, and I'm sure that gave her family hope as well.

And they wasted all these resources.

All this time, yeah.

Although it would not be widely known for several decades, Gail Patrick Irish wasn't the only suspect in the Baird Kelly case. In fact, many investigators believe that Guy Muldaven made a far more likely suspect. I was waiting. At the time of the murder, Muldaven and his wife were living in Fortuna, California, the same small town where the victims lived. Imagine that. More importantly, however, Muldaven's in-laws owned a sweet shop. Stop it. The restaurant where Barbara Kelly worked as a waitress and a restaurant on Baird's, Henry Baird's regular delivery route. Stop. Guy Muldaven, happened to work there as a short order cook sometimes to make additional money. Since they had announced their plans that evening to anyone, Barbara and Henry, investigators had initially thought, assumed basically, that they had been attacked by a stranger. But it was equally possible that either Henry or Barbara mentioned their plan to go to Table Bluff to Muldaven or one of the other coworkers shortly before leaving the diner that afternoon. Whatever the case, investigators strongly suspected Muldaven of being involved in the murder and in Barbara's disappearance. But without Kelly's body or any other evidence to tie him to the crime, they had no cause to arrest him.

Did they ever find her?

No. I know it kills me.

That's devastating.

Now, not long after the discovery of Henry Baird's body, Guy and Joëllen, strangely, relocated to Seattle, Washington. I wonder why.

That's like crazy that they decided to move out of nowhere. Listen, I don't know about you guys, but obviously I have some bad habits that I want to shrug off. We've all got bad habits that we try to shake off. Even though I'm not going around doing shady stuff like some of the people that we'd be talking about on this podcast, it's always a good idea to make moves towards good habits. Let me tell you about this new alternative to smoking and vaping called Flevered Air. Our sponsor Fum, have created an award-winning Flavered Air device that helps people ditch that bad habit of smoking. It was founded on this idea that if we stick to good habits, making change feels easier and less pressurized. Fum has a ton of delicious flavors to choose from: crisp mint, orange vanilla, and new peach blush. I have the peach blush one, and it is yummy. With Flaved Air, you can satisfy your oral fixation through a passive diffusion system that utilizes no electronics, vapor, or combustion. There's no nicotine, it's not addictive, its nontoxic flavors. It is a guilt-free alternative. Plus, no batteries, so you never need to even charge it.

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Now, where guy, and when they went to Seattle, Washington, he found work as a DJ again. And that was before he opened a shop, which I hate to say this is a pretty good idea. It's a nocturnal antique shop.

No, that actually is a really good idea.

I was like, Fuck you for having a good idea.

Maybe he stole it from a better person.

He probably did. He didn't come up with that himself. No. And this operated from 6:00 PM to midnight. I love that. Kind of a cool idea. I I love that a lot. Yeah. But Guy and Joëllen's marriage lasted a few more years. They had a daughter together until one day in early 1956, in front of customers in the store, Guy announced he no longer wanted to be married to Joëllen and told her to pack her things and leave.

Sounds abrupt.

In fact, one witness told police, It was the cruelest thing I ever saw. Oh. Yeah. That's so sad. Joëllen, good for her, filed for divorce and was awarded sole custody of their daughter and left the fuck out of Seattle. Thank goodness. Bye.

I don't think she would have made it out alive otherwise. No.

Although she didn't know it at the time, Guy's demand for a divorce had not exactly come out of nowhere. In fact, it was something he'd been planning for sometime. Why is that? At least since starting up an affair with his soon-to-be second wife, Manzanita Manzee Mearns. Guy had met Mearns several months earlier when she came into the antique store with her husband, William, while the couple was visiting from Vancouver. Manzee and Guy hit it off immediately in their affair soon started. By 1958, they both had divorced their respective spouses and got married. Manzie and her teenage daughter Dolores moved into the apartment Guy occupied above the antique store. Deloah. Deloah. Whatever charm Manzi had seen in Guy before the marriage soon wore off after they got married. This is what he does.

That's always so scary, too. You think you know somebody and then you marry them. Those stories and cases are so sad.

Yeah, they are. While Guy He cultivated a certain persona at the antique store, he would chat up the wealthy women in order to sell them expensive to antiques. Manzie worked really hard at a local bank and would come home and continue having to do more work at the store. According to author, Anne Rule.

Have you heard of her? I know her.

For Guy, it was a social time, but his wife and stepdaughter would have preferred to have family dinner in some quiet evenings. Yeah, probably. At some point, Manzie began noticing that certain women were coming by the store far more often than they needed to, but they always left without purchasing anything. Whenever she would express his pleasure with the fact that this was happening, show some jealousy to him, he would insist that he had no interest in any other woman and any flirting he did was strictly for the purposes of making a sale. But Manzie didn't really believe him.

It's also like, you can make a sale without flirting.

Well, and after all, it wasn't too long ago that she'd left her husband and two youngest children behind to move in with the man she knew as Raul. She knew how convincing and charming he could be, and she was like, Fuck, he's probably doing it to other people. Now, whatever stories and exaggerations Guy told his wife to alleviate her concerns, they were nothing compared to the outright lies he was telling women who came in the antique store. He said he was born in Saint-Tropez in the French Riviera. He told him that he had been raised in a family of well-known and widely respected French antique dealers. He had come to the United States as a teenager. He was so brilliant that he was immediately accepted at the University of California, and then he joined the army and did a six-year tour of duty, engaged in some of World War II's most notorious battles. None of that was true. I was going to say that's weird.

I didn't hear you mention that in the beginning.

Not a one of it, not One thing of that was true. It's unclear how much of this his customers actually even believe, to be honest, especially considering the timeline did not match up at all. But it kept them coming back. More importantly to him, they were paying attention to him and buying his shit. People love a good story. It didn't seem to matter. By March 1960, it was becoming clear that Manzie and Guy's marriage was falling apart. Yeah. According to Ann Rule, neighbors could not help but notice a lovely middle-aged blonde who arrived at the antique shop close to midnight several evenings a week.

And that's closing time. Yeah.

And that was also while Manzie sat in their apartment upstairs, completely unaware of what was, well, probably aware of what was happening. Yeah, that's very sad. But not wanting to believe it. A month later, Manzie and Dolores suddenly disappeared.

Both of them? Yep.

Causing neighbors to speculate that she'd grown tired of guys cheating and finally decided to leave him. For those who knew her, however, Manzie's disappearance came as a big surprise. She'd always been very reliable, very worker, so the manager at the bank was very stunned that she would suddenly quit, not show up, and just quit without notice. Also, Dolores had seemed very committed to her studies at university. The faculty there was very surprised that she had just stopped classes without saying anything. The couple next door with whom Manzie had become pretty close, they were sure that she would have talked to them before she left. They would have said something. In fact, they were hurt that she didn't say goodbye, but then that soon turned to serious concern. Now, whenever anyone asked about Manzie and Dolores, Guy would tell them that she had gone to Vancouver to visit relatives. When the two of them still hadn't returned, though, after weeks, Guy was forced to explain that his wife had, in fact, left him and taken her daughter. He feigned embarrassment and appeared pretty sheepish whenever it would come up. He would say to people, She doesn't love me anymore, and Manzie closed out our joint bank account.

She took every penny I've saved for the shop and to buy more antiques. She even burned all my business records before she left.

Wow. Just selling her name. That's nice.

To those around him, he did seem upset about the whole thing. He drank heavily. He appeared depressed. He would often let days pass without even opening the antique shop. Oh, wow. After a few months, he finally managed to pull himself together, and file for divorce from Manzie, cited cruelty and desertion as the reason for filing. Okay. Then to everyone's surprise, though, in July, just a few months after his wife had disappeared, in just 72 hours after getting their divorce, Guy remarried.

72 hours? Yes.

Girl. Yeah. Wow. This time to Evelyn Emerson, the daughter of two of his wealthiest customers, Clifford and Jermaine Winkler.

Okay.

Those who had been close with Guy and Manzie, the speed at which he moved on and remarried came as a shock. But by then, the only opinions Guy seemed to give a shit about were his very wealthy in-law's opinions. He didn't give a shit with anyone else was saying. Evelyn seemed equally taken with Guy and told friends she was eager to start traveling around the world with him, purchasing antiques, all of which she believed was going to be funded by a Fulbright scholarship. In fact, Evelyn was so enthusiastic and so believing him that she agreed to sell the antique store that she had operated for a number of years. Oh, no. And placed her remaining inventory with an auction house and planned to give the proceeds to Guy. Oh. That's how much this guy was able to convince people. Yeah. Now, just days after the wedding, Guy approached Clifford and Germaine, his in-laws, with a business proposition. Oh, goody. He had been offered the opportunity to buy a large amount of First Nation's art and artifacts from a dealer in Canada for the price of $8,000. Okay. But because Manzhi had taken all the money, he didn't have the funds to make the purchase.

So he claimed that he'd put down $500 as a deposit on the items, and he had received assurances from two collectors in Seattle who were willing to pay nearly twice the price. He just needed the money to close the sale.

Okay.

The Winklers had known Guy for some time now, and as far as they knew, they thought he was a smart businessman, a savvy investor, so they happily lent him the money, and they even gave him an additional $2,000 to make sure he was fully covered. Oh, that's Such nice people. A few days later, on August third, Guy announced that he would be making the trip to Canada, but he was going to do it alone. He told Evelyn, he thought the trip might be dangerous, and he didn't want to put her at any risk. Okay. A week passed, and Evelyn still hadn't heard from her new husband. Bearing something might have happened to him, she called the only one of Guy's friends she knew, which was his lawyer, Jeffrey Hyman. Jeffrey tried to reassure her. That guy was probably fine, but then he learned that Guy had been carrying a large sum of like that, and he was like, Uh-oh. Actually, that is a little concerning. That concern only grew a few days later when Jeffrey was unable to confirm that guy had even gotten onto flights leaving from Seattle on August third. Having run out of ideas, they called the police and reported him missing.

The case was assigned to Sergeant Herb Swindler. What a name. Herb Swindler? Herb Swindler of Seattle's Crimes Against Persons Unit, who immediately began investigating the disappearance. Swindler confirmed that Evelyn and Hyman had already learned He learned from the airlines that he had not gone on any planes, but then they called the Pacific National Bank where Guy had an account. The bank manager told the detective that Guy had been into the bank on August third, and he'd cashed a $10,000 check from Jermaine Winkler, as well as withdrawn $3,000 from his own account. That's so crazy. But when Swindler asked whether the money had been converted to Canadian currency. He said, Uh-uh. It was not. It was still in US dollars. He said, Nor. No, that was when it occurred to Swindler that guy hadn't gone missing, he'd stolen their money and fled the state.

He was on the am.

Yeah, he was on the am. Swindler became even more suspicious a few days later when Jeffrey Hyman received a phone call from a woman who said, Actually, I have flown on a plane to San Francisco with Guy on August fourth, and he was supposed to be in Canada on August fourth. According to the scholar, she was positive it was him because she, quote, has known him for a long time. So Swindler flew to San Francisco to interview this woman and learned that she and Guy had been carrying on an affair for about five years.

Five years? Yes.

When the woman found out Guy had married Evelyn, she was pissed. Obviously. Which is why she chose to call Jeffrey Hyman in the first place.

Yeah. Queen.

The further the investigation went, the more women emerged to report their ongoing relationships with Muldaven. That's why you don't like Bluebeard.

He's literally like Bluebeard. He's literally like Bluebeard. He's like Bluebeard. It's actually crazy. Yeah.

We didn't even plan that. No. Most of them felt they'd been taken advantage of by a conman. He's literally Bluebeer.

Because they had.

Yeah, he's literally... What's his name? Bluebeer Watson. Watson, there. The discovery of guy's lies prompted Jeffrey Hyman. Guys Lies, sorry.

Guys Lies. It's like that scene. It's like a... You've never been kissed. Yikes.

You are a guy.

Quite a guy.

It's true. Guys lies. The discovery of guys lies prompted Jeffrey Hyman and Swindler to wonder whether what he'd said about Manzie and Dolores leaving was actually true. Immediately, they were like, Wait a second. This guy's a fucking liar. Yeah.

Survey says no.

Having checked the bank, both men now knew Manzie hadn't taken any money from their bank account like he claimed to everyone. It was just the beginning because everyone had felt strange that no one had heard from either of these women since he said they disappeared. No one in their life, they just disappeared.

Like they have younger siblings and young children.

Exactly. According to the neighbors, the last time anyone had seen Manzie and Dolores was on March 31st, and both of them had acted completely normal. In fact, according to their neighbor, Karen Yorick, Dolores seemed excited about starting her new classes. So it just didn't make sense. That breaks your heart. There was one other thing that Karen Yorick wanted to tell the detectives, though. She realized it might seem strange, but she said not long after Manzie and Dolores disappeared, Yorick noticed one of the windows in Muldaven's basement was open, which she'd never noticed before. About a month later, Yorick and her husband noticed a, quote, bowel odor coming from the house. The odor was bad enough that they asked a guy about it. He told them, quote, it was only some crab that had spoiled, and he threw it into the garbage can. . No.

In your basement?

Babes, that's weird. Everybody, it's never crab that is spoiled. No. Just call someone.

You'll know the difference.

Yes, don't worry. Even if you don't, call someone. Just call. You might as well just check. Things became even more ominous when Detective searched Muldaven's house and found that this is so chilling. They found that all of Manzie and Dolores's clothing and belongings were still there. From their hairspray and makeup to Dolores's schoolbooks, Manzie's purse.

Oh, and things are just almost preserved like that.

That's the thing. Chilling is the perfect word. Just left the way it was. Untouched. Yeah. Also, investigators were beginning to notice small inconsistencies in the stories like I was, was telling neighbors and friends. The main part of the story that Manzie had left and stolen their money was always the same. But the less important parts, how much she'd stolen, what town she'd gone to, so on and so forth, they seemed to change depending on who he was talking to. For the detectives on the case, a very clear picture was emerging of a man who had been carrying on tons of affairs, lying to everyone for years, and then he decided to cut all ties and start a new life somewhere else. But the question was, where the fuck is his ex-wife and his stepdaughter? Right. Now, in late August, Swindler received a call from the Sheriff's office in Wanachi, Washington, a small town about 150 miles from Seattle. Deputies there had discovered, and this is horrific, Deputies there had discovered a pair of woman's legs floating in the Columbia River a few months earlier. At the same time, they also received information from a local rental car agency, letting them know that Guy had rented a van on April sixth, just a few days after Manzie and Dolores went missing.

Oh, no. The mileage on the odometer showed that guy had driven 316 miles, which was about the distance from Seattle to this place in Washington. Yeah. Lab analysis confirmed that the legs matched Manzie's height and weight, and the blood type was also a match.

Again, can we just say the detective work for the time period goes crazy?

It goes crazy. But what kills me is in This is not going to end the way you want it to. I know. When you look at this, you say, you have all this. You have an odometer that says it. You have him renting the car. All of this, I'm like, what do you mean you didn't have enough to get him? There's more. Based on all the evidence they compiled, investigators did get a warrant to search the entire Muldaven house from top to bottom. In the kitchen, technicians discovered small blood stains on the walls, and the stairs leading to the attic were also known to have droplets of blood leading leading up the stairs. On the wall leading up the stairs to the attic, there was a faint smear that they suspected was blood leading from the kitchen all the way up the stairs to the attic. When they reached the attic, investigators discovered what was fucking It was literally a crime scene. There were droplets, smears, even what looked to be dried pools of blood all over the room. And they didn't have enough to arrest him? It looked like someone didn't even bother to really clean it up.

Instead, he had just put fucking shit over the stains, like rolled up rugs, paint, other household items, just over the stains.

Which is wild because he continued to live there for a period of time. Yeah.

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Detectives also found hair evidence in what would later be fucking identified as human tissue, as well as a broken human tooth that would be identified as having come from someone roughly 21 years of age.

Oh, dude. How did they not feel like they had enough? They never even tried.

It's me. Okay, so the evidence in the attic strongly suggested that Guy Muldevin had murdered his wife and stepdaughter, then dismembered their bodies.

If not just flat out screamed at investigators, he did it.

And Swindler also recalled what the had said about the odor coming from the house and seeing guy working on the septic tank shortly after Manzie and Dolores disappeared. So the detectives were like, Oh, bitch. So they obtained the necessary tools to access the septic tank. And When they opened the lid and started pumping out the contents, they discovered what appeared to be human remains.

In the septic tank? Yes.

The remains would be removed to the medical examiner's office, where Dr. Gail Wilson would confirm that they were human The remains. Among the remains in the tank, and this is horrifying, I want everybody to realize that, in the tank, there was a uterus-Oh, my God.with a small portion of the vaginal vault attached. The alt upper portion of the right ear of a human, which had been hacked off, like brutally hacked off, five pieces of colon, one section of lung, one partial kidney, an ulnar bone, a radial epiphysis, and four phalangesia. Phalangeal bones. Phalangeal, sorry. I said that weird. That's okay. I think all of us- Yeah, I was going to say, I think there was more to that than my misprononciation.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

So he dismembered to the point where he took organs out? Or had they possibly just decayed through the skin? I have no idea.

It was just organs left. There is a real possibility that he flushed actual organs.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

And they never got him for this?

Nope. How? In 1960, DNA testing was still decades away. So they were not able to tell whether those remains or the remains in the Columbia River were those of Manzie and Dolores.

No, no, for sure. But they were residents of that home. And isn't there something called probable cause and circumstantial evidence?

These remains were human.

Yeah.

They knew that. And it strongly suggested that some criminal and violent thing had happened in the house. With that, the case did turn from missing persons in larceny cases to a double homicide with their prime suspect on the run. They were going after him now. They were like, Okay. Okay. Now, while Swindler continued his pursuit of Guy Muldaven, additional investigators were added to the case to try to locate the rest of Manzie and Dolores' bodies. In the meantime, police had located Guy's brother, Michael. He was in San a go. He tried to fill in some blanks for them in this story, the fact that his name was not Raul. He said, Guy and I live together for a good part of our youth, but I can't say we were ever close. I wonder why. Yeah. He told a reporter, Guy cut himself off from his family. He told me very little about himself, and I never pride. Which good for you, Michael. Unfortunately, while Michael could provide investigators with some background on his brother, he hadn't seen him in years. He's like, I have no idea where he could have gone after leaving Seattle.

He could be gone by any name at that point.

In late September, the Winklers, remember his wife, Evelyn's parents, his in-laws who he stole the money from, they got a letter that had been dated back in March. This letter was saying that it was from someone named Major John Reilly.

I feel like it's probably Guy.

Probably. The Winklers knew no one by that name. And its purpose, it seemed, was to assure them that Guy Muldaven was a great man. I don't think so. In fact, the writer spent most of its two pages just enthusiastically gushing about the achievements of Guy Muldaven.

It's screaming narcissism.

It is yelling from the rooftops.

It's a howler, actually.

It is a howler. That's exactly it. Ronald Wiesler. That's literally what this was doing. A handwriting expert analyzed the letter and concluded that the handwriting of Major John Reilly was an exact match of a Guy Muldaven. No way. But unfortunately, the postmark had been smeared, so there was no way to tell where it was mailed from. By the end of the fall, Swindler and other investigators were beginning to feel as though Muldaven had actually gotten beyond their reach at this point.

It does be feeling that way.

Then just a few days after Thanksgiving, they received a call from detectives in New York City.

I bet that made them thankful.

To inform them that guy, right? To inform them that guy had been arrested on the larceny charge. Swindler immediately booked a flight to New York, and a few hours later, he was sitting across from the fucking man that they had been pursuing for months. Stop it. He later said, I met him in unfamiliar territory. The New York cops were anxious to talk to him, but they gave me the interview room and some time alone with him. He came so close to telling me what I needed to hear. But what happened? At the time, the FBI were holding Guy on a charge of unlawful flight to avoid giving testimony, and the charge of grand larceny for the theft of the Winkler's $8,000. Yes. Actually, I think it ends up being.

It's a lot more than, yeah.

But if Swindler and the other detectives thought Muldaven would simply confess to the murders of Manzine Dolores, they were very mistaken. In fact, rather than appearing guilty or ashamed, he seemed to love the attention he was getting, and he welcomed the opportunity to demonstrate what he believed to be his superior intelligence. Oh, goody. Because he liked getting right up to the point of telling them, and then he would pull it back. Douchebag. He said, he told Swindler, I'm morally guilty of Manzini Anita's and Dolores' death. Okay. But he said, I was the only person living with them and the only person who might have had an opportunity to commit these crimes. But he would just stop right before there. So he would say, Yeah, I was the only one who probably could have done And they'd be like, Did you do it? I hate him. He's a fucking asshole. Yeah, he is. Guy was held on $50,000 bail as preparations were made to extradite him back to Washington. He didn't protest it. Also, the press couldn't resist a sensational story at the time. They were calling him the hipster, Bunko artist and great lover who was arrested after the grizzly discovery of human remains in his septic tank.

Do better.

Do so much better. In newspapers around the country, the press delight in describing Guy's many affairs and his ability to charm anyone he met. The New York Daily News described his antique shop as a gather spot for beakniks, art lovers, celebrities, and celebrity hunters, all bound by Muldaven's magnetism and offbeatful philosophy. Shut up. Fuck off. All of the above. He's a piece of shit. The games and theatrics continued once Guy had gone to Seattle. A few days after his arrest, he started a hunger strike, publicly declaring that he had willed himself to die. And I said, You're not alone. A few days later, on December sixth, he was interviewed again by Swindler, this time telling him, and this is awful, he said, I'll tell you all about the murders as soon as I talk to a Jesuit priest. So he was allowed to speak to a priest. And actor he did, he refused to speak with Swindler or any of the other detectives and would only say, They're dead and I'm alive, and that's what's important. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, literally, fuck this guy. I hope he is. That's what's important. Rotting so hard in hell where he is.

I think something's awaiting him in his next life. He already met it. He's meeting it as we speak. He's been meeting it. He's been there for a while now. I hope you're tired. Hope it sucks. In early 1961, the prosecutor in King County, Washington, had charged Maldaven with grand larceny, and he was bound over for trial. Okay. At the same time, the federal authorities were eager to get him for the murders of Manzie and Dolores. So they admitted, and I don't understand this, the case against him was weak in their eyes.

No, there's blood everywhere. There was a kidney, a fucking uterus in somebody's ear in his septic system. I wouldn't call that weak.

I feel like it's like this was the time when it was without a body, you don't have a case. But you got somebody. You got somebody. That's the thing. But you can't identify that body. That's the problem is you can't. They haven't said that this is... We know. You know what it is. Everybody knows, but it's like...

It depends on if somebody is willing, if the DA is willing to take it. Yeah. And a lot of times they will take that cable because we've covered cases even earlier than this where they go to trial without a body. So it really does come down to the DA.

But I don't know if it was like that was the attitude here was like, I can't definitively say. So it's weak in our eyes, which I'm like, I don't get that. That's not a weak case. You also have that like the rental car in the area where the body was found in the river. You have the odometer basically having the same amount of miles to go from Seattle to where the body was found, the body parts.

And also, he has shitty character.

Clearly, if he's in- He does.

It's like, Come on, this could work. You're going to get him on a larceny charge. You could definitely get him on everything else.

So after multiple pre-trial hearings and motions for dismissal, the larceny trial got underway in October. The defense opened by interviewing Evelyn, his wife, who explained that the money that he had stolen, he had not stolen. That was a loan. He didn't steal anything.

Well, yeah, it was a alone, but he didn't go to where he said he was going when he took it. So he stole the money, babes.

And he bamboozled you guys. That wasn't him just not... You know, like that doesn't... This was honestly the foundation of the defense's argument, though. Guy may have been unfaithful and a shitty person, but the money had been given to him in good faith, and he had not stolen anything. He merely failed to return with the items he intended to purchase.

You have to wonder if she was scared.

I wonder that, too.

If Dolores and Manzie faced of fate that they did of his hands, I'm sure there was lead up to that.

I'm sure he was a terrifying man.

So I give her a pass.

Now, during the trial, Guy testified in his own defense, telling the jury that- That checks so hard. Yeah. He said that he was bullied as a child, and that led to a life of resentment, which in turn led him to become a deceful person. Okay. I would like to point out that many people have been bullied and do not turn into deceful pieces of shit. Yeah. In fact, according to Guy, all the behavior that made him appear suspicious, the constant lies, his secrecy, all that shit, the crime scene in his house, it could all be attributed to his sensitivities around being bullied. He was just sad. Okay. You know? Yeah. Like, what?

I'm not seeing the linear pathway there.

The reason I have multiple affairs and treat my wives like shit and steal money from people and lie and have body parts in my septic tank is because I was bullied. And it's a sensitive subject. And it's like, please connect those fucking dots for me. Connect one of those dots. Make a dot. Just one set of them. There's no dots. I don't even see a dot. What are you doing? Who let him say that? He claimed he had gone to Canada and went ahead with the purchase. But he had not. To which we say, Babe, we have proof you didn't. What do you do? What? You never flew there. He said, But the deal fell through, and he was cheated out of the money. Just remember, Manzie stole all the money from him. We proved that didn't happen, too, but that's no matter. He was cheated again.

That's crazy. He gets cheated a lot. Yeah.

He said, after that, he couldn't face his new bride and her stepmother, so he left August fourth, 1960. I want to be clear with you what he just said. He couldn't face his wife and his stepmother, his new stepmother.

How about our stepmother-in-law?

Yeah. We're not going to talk about the father-in-law. We're only going to We're only going to blame the women. That Bill and is the women here, which seems to be a fucking path in his life.

Sure does.

Now, despite the best efforts of the defense, the jury found Guy guilty of grand larceny, luckily. Yeah.

I feel like they would have fucking found him guilty on a murder charge. I do, too.

But this is awful because when it came to sentencing, he was given a 15-year suspended sentence and allowed to leave court a free man.

Wait, why?

Yeah. It was a suspended sentence. The judge may suspend the sentence in part or in full and the defendant serves probation. Yeah. So he was given the 15-year suspended sentence, so he could just serve probation. It's totally up to the judge. Wow.

I mean, I guess having it... I'm sure the jury didn't hear about the No, because you can't introduce that stuff.

Right.

Like the body parts and everything. So they just heard this larceny thing. I mean, $10,000 is a lot of money, but like...

But it's like... But he was able to walk out a free man that day. And due to a lack of evidence in their eyes, police were unable charge Muldevin with the murders of Manzie and Dolores, and that remains unsolved to this day.

It actually doesn't.

It doesn't. Wow. Now, after the trial, Evelyn and Guy actually stayed married for a few years before ultimately getting a divorce.

That's good.

In February 1974, that's when Guy and Ruth Terry were married. Then they left for their honeymoon on Cape Cod. That was on their honeymoon, by the way.

Which is just like Try to conceive of that. Everybody who's married or at least has, but at some point, think about your honeymoon.

On their honeymoon. Yeah.

What? Yeah.

Now, what happened after Guy left Massachusetts after he murdered Ruth Terry is somewhat of a mystery. It looks like he eventually returned to California. He lived basically there the rest of his life with few people close to him actually knowing who he was. They didn't know his scandalous history. They didn't know any of the things that he was accused of. He really surrounded by himself by people he could fool. Yeah. In the 1980s, he took a position on a local radio station posting a show called Talk to Me, which covered topics ranging from cuts in Social Security, Alzheimer's disease, homosexuality, this is a quote, by the way, the erosion of culture, and his belief that killing has become a habit. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Wow.

I want to go back and I want to hear some of those because I want to see what he was saying.

I do, too.

Yeah. On March 14, 2002, Guy Muldevin died after a long illness at his home. I hate that he was able to be comfortable. I do, too. He was never charged with any of the murders he was suspected of having committed. He appears to have been remembered by friends and family as great and terrific.

No. You know what, though? He died in March, and Dolores and Manzie were last seen March. That's karma at work, in my opinion.

He sounds like a... Whatever he was guilty of, he sounds like a complete asshole.

Also, in my opinion, at least, there's no way he just stopped with Dolores and Manzie and Terry.

No.

No way.

And there's no way. The crime scene literally in his home, the body parts in his septic tank. What was in his septic tank? Come on, get it together, everybody.

That is just Wow.

It's horrifying.

I've never heard of somebody having that found in their septic tank and just being like, Anyways, they got to live the rest of their life untouched.

It makes me so angry.

It makes me so angry that all of that, but it does make me so happy that at least now his name is tarnished.

Yeah, exactly. It's like, you did get what was coming to you at the end. So there's that, at least.

But it's so sad that technically Dolores and Manzie never got the justice that they deserved. Yeah. And that they never found Barbara Kelly's body. No.

We still don't know where she... It's just awful. It's just awful.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird.

But it's the word than any of this. Don't be that bad of a human.

Please don't. Be good.

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