Transcript of Episode 627: The Murder of Carol Thompson

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Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena.

And this is Morbid.

This is Morbid, And I, it's before Thanksgiving, but for you guys, it's after Thanksgiving, I think.

Isn't that weird?

So we have not given thanks yet. Thank you. But because you have, I hope you had fun. Yes. And I hope you ate all kinds of yummy food.

Oh, scrumdiddly umptious. I'm salivating just thinking of our food that

we're gonna eat. And we're thankful for you. Yeah. We love you. We'll be thankful for you.

Thank you for being our listeners.

Yeah. We'll stay thankful for you. It'll be a whole thing.

It's Gonna be a whole thing, guys. It's so beautiful.

You know

what I'm thankful for? Sushi.

There you go.

I just had some. Good for you, man. And you had a strawberry hostess cupcake.

I did. Have you guys tried those? I didn't know they existed.

She broke it out, and it's me, her, and Mikey in the pod lab today. And she said, we can split this into 3, and I said, no need.

No need to do so.

You can split that in half and

you took the journey with me.

You did. That's cute.

Wasn't bad. It was just 1 of those things that you're like, alright.

Yeah. Okay. I felt like it wouldn't mix well with my sushi and dumplings. Probably not. I was like, I think I'll try that at a later date, if ever.

That's a great I think you should try it because I think you might be pleasantly surprised. Okay. But not with sushi.

Right now, I'm in a place of those little Debbie, brownie Christmas tree things, cakes.

Oh, yeah.

Like, not I don't I'm actually not a big fan.

Don't you say it. I'm not. Of the vanilla.

Christmas tree cakes. I don't like too much frosting, and the middle is sometimes too much for me. And I'm I fear that you're gonna throw something at me. I like I like the brownie better. Doesn't John also?

Yeah. Yeah. And both of you can get the fuck out of here.

But that's With your shenanigans. That just means more for you.

It sure does. My kids like the the vanilla ones with me.

You know what? I don't dislike them. Like, I'll eat 1 every now and again. Horrified. But if I, like, if I had to pick, like, on a desert on a deserted island, like, you can only have 1 brownies all the way.

I hate that.

I'd also pick brownies over cake That's so much. In general.

Wow. Yeah. This is like, I'm feeling so betrayed lately from from my the people I love the most to what they love and what they don't love.

Why? What else happened?

Because you just said that. And then John, we were finishing up Follow the House of Usher Oh, TV. The other night of Mike Flanagan.

I would've

watched that. And he was like, yeah. I'm I'm not, like, really into this. And I was like, I'm sorry. What?

And he wasn't into midnight mass either. And he was like, and then he said the words. I'm like,

Mike Flanagan, if you're listening.

He doesn't he didn't mean it. Mike Flanagan, if you're listening, you have a fan in this house. It's me, John. But John was like, yeah. I don't know if I really like Mike Flanagan's stuff.

And I was like, I don't know how to accept that. Did you say,

I don't know who you even are.

I'm just not sure how you watch 2 things with Kate in it Yeah. That is made by Mike Flanagan.

You said 2 things with Kate? Kate Siegel. Kate. Okay. His wife Oh, okay.

Who's in both of them. Okay. Who's a phenomenal actress. Okay. She's just chef's kiss.

And tell me you don't you're not really into them? I don't understand that that way of living. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna try again because I refuse to accept it, so I think I'm too forced to watch fall down some pressure again.

You know what though? I feel like that would be akin to Drew turning to me and telling me that he didn't like Bravo all of a sudden Yeah. And I'd kick him out of our house.

It's rough. And then you sit here and you tell me

I didn't say you do

not appreciate No. No. No. The vanilla Christmas tree. You at 1 point, you said I don't really like them.

You said those were like Oh,

that's purge? Yeah. You quoted me correctly.

That's making a tie around.

No. I shouldn't say I don't really like them. I just don't prefer them. I prefer my my preference is the brownies, you know? Right in.

What's your preference? We should do a social media poll. Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord. Like, no.

I'll lose. America's sweetheart will win the brownie crusade. That's fine. More for me like you said. Exactly.

Like you said. Like I said. Like I said. I said it. Alright.

I think that was an unhinged enough intro. I do wanna see what

it was.

Fall of Fall of the House of Usher.

Fall of the House of Usher. I highly recommend it, guys,

if you haven't watched it. I'll wait to watch it with you.

It's a banger of a miniseries. It's only 8 episodes. And and he is Mike Flanagan's brilliant, and so is his wife.

I'm willing

to try his stuff. I am I don't

think I've ever seen any.

You finding a stuff. You would dig it. I really do.

I mean, I feel like we usually have Yeah. I wouldn't say similar taste because you don't like the

things that I love. But I but but

I feel like you TV show wise, I'm saying.

He he just has a way. And he and and the atmosphere that he creates in his shows and movies, I think you will appreciate

in a big way. I've seen the trailer of, fall of the house of Oscar. I always feel like I'm gonna say it wrong. And I liked I liked the trailer. I was intrigued.

I think you'd be into it.

But I don't think Drew would like it, and that's tough because we watch TV together. And right now, if you're a Bravo head, oh my god. All the shows are on, honey.

Oh, man.

All of them. Real Housewives of Beverly Hills just came back. 1st episode, absolutely obsessed. I do not condone smoking unless your name is Dorete Kemsley. Have you seen the picture of her lighting up a Virginia Slim and just driving her out?

No.

She I

guess, she's like going through a divorce and it gets outed, and she's getting chased by paparazzi, and she just lights up a Virginia slim. And everybody knew that Doreen smoked, like she's been caught by paparazzi before, but she's never done it on the show. And she I she just had such a fuck it moment. Yeah.

She doesn't give a shit.

It was iconic. It was the smoke heard around the world.

There you go.

Don't smoke, it kills.

It does.

So anyway I think I said that was chaotic enough of an intro but then I made it more chaotic. I love that. Well, now we're going to get on to the case. This case is absolutely bonkers from start to finish.

Oh, I'm excited.

Yeah. I will let you know, like, right off the top right off the top of this. It's very brutal in the beginning, but

here here. It's called morbid. It is.

So this is the murder of Carole Thompson, and it all started on the morning of March 6, 1963. Ruth Nelson was just sitting in her living room in her Saint Paul, Minnesota home. She was catching up on the morning news, and she heard what sounded like somebody lightly knocking on her front door. So she went to the door and she peeled appeared through the small window, and she couldn't see anybody. But she decided that she should just open the door to be sure.

And when she opened the door, she saw that lying at the foot of the steps was her neighbor, 34 year old Carole Thompson, who lived just a couple houses down. Temperatures that morning were freezing, but Carole was only wearing a light robe. She had no shoes on, and the upper part of her body from her head to her chest was absolutely drenched in blood. And Carol looked up and then a voice just above a whisper, she looked at Ruth and said, help me.

Oh, that's so haunting.

And she's like, Ruth has just started her morning just, you know Yeah. Probably made a cup of coffee watching the news Jesus. And opens her door up to Wow. Like her beloved neighbor too. They were close.

And only 34 years old. Yeah.

Super young neighbor. So Ruth called out to her husband and son who were still home. They had been in the kitchen, and they moved Carole inside the house laying her gently on their rug. And while Harry Nelson ran to call the police, Ruth and her son just tried to comfort Carole however they could.

Holy shit.

And 1 of the 2 ended up asking Carole what happened, who had somebody attacked her, who had. And in a faint voice that suggested she was losing consciousness really quickly, she answered, a man did it. And Ruth asked what the man's name was and she thought that Carole said Johnson, but by then Carole, like, could hardly speak. Even so That's so awful. She was just speaking over a whisper, so Ruth would never be quite sure what the name was.

Now moments later, another neighbor, doctor Fritz Pearson arrived. His wife had been watching everything that morning through their living room window and suggested that he go over to help because she was like, something is, like, very wrong over there. Yeah. So Pearson instructed the Nelson son to go get some wet towels, and he carefully started wiping away copious amounts of blood. It was clear to everyone that somebody had attacked Carole and had beat her really badly about the face and head, which is where they assumed that the blood was coming from.

But when Carole dropped her hand away from her neck, doctor Pearson noticed a large stab wound, and it seemed as though that the broken knife blade was actually still embedded into her neck.

Oh my god. Yeah.

Ruth Nelson later said, I know Carole very well, but her face was covered with so much blood that even I didn't recognize her.

Oh, that's horrific.

So Harry Nelson's call to the Saint Paul police came in to dispatch at about 9:0:7 AM. Just think of how early

this is. In the morning.

At which point he reported only that his wife had discovered a, quote, badly injured lady on their doorstep and just thought they needed help immediately. It's unclear what sergeants John Ricardo and Roy Sheppard were really expecting when they got to the scene. But whatever it was, it was not really likely that they had pictured just a housewife and neighbors drenched in blood. Yeah. Later, Ricardo wrote in his report, the wounds were small and appeared to be stab wounds.

But in truth, Carole had been injured so badly that it was impossible to tell where all the blood was coming from. She had so many wounds. So as doctor Pearson continued providing first aid, the officers tried to get any information out of Carole herself. But by then, she was barely conscious, and she wasn't able to communicate at all. So it was Ruth Nelson who explained how she came to found Carole that morning, but nobody had any idea what happened to her, like, how she got that way.

Can you imagine just finding someone like that? No. You have no clue what happened. No. And she can't tell you.

That's the worst part. So the ambulance arrives or arrived a few minutes later, and the EMTs were directed inside. And in their report, 1 of the EMTs described the extent of Caroll's wounds as far as he could see at the time, writing, we observed that the woman had numerous wounds about the forehead, a wound, bleeding quite heavily in the right eye, and 3 or 4 wounds in the neck on the left and right side. We also noticed a shiny metal tip or what appeared to be a knife blade protruding from the left side of the neck.

Who the fuck did this to her? Oh, just wait.

So Carol was taken to Anchor Hospital by the ambulance while the officers called for additional support and started their investigation. From what the 2 initial investigators could tell, Mercado and Shepherd, it seems like Carole had actually crawled or dragged her way down the street just trying to find shatters my heart. Yeah. And just, like, this quiet 19 sixties suburban neighborhood, and she can't yell because she's been stabbed in the fucking neck. So when they conducted their door to door canvas of the neighborhood, Fritz Pearson's wife, who that was the doctor's wife who had sent him over, and a handyman who had been working on their house told investigators that she'd seen who she now knew to be Carol slumped in front of another neighbor's house just a few minutes before she made her way to the Nelson store.

So she had to, like, stop on her way there. Yeah. Of course. Which is I just can't imagine looking out my window and seeing that.

No. And also, like did you tell anyone?

She's the 1 that sent her husband over.

Oh, okay. Oh, she's the 1 who said, like, I think something's going on

over there.

So I

think she saw like I think probably what happened was initially, she saw somebody, like, in the street and was like, who is that? Like, what's going on? And then looked, like, looked further and saw her get to the Nelson's and realized who it was.

Alright. There's something wrong here.

So when investigators arrived at Carol Thompson's home about just a block away, nobody was home and the front door was locked. So the officers ended up entering through a side door that was open and that opened up into the kitchen. For the most part, the kitchen actually seemed to be pretty undisturbed, except there was 1 drawer where silverware and knives had been pulled out and its contents were spilled to the floor. But then they saw a trail of blood that led them from the kitchen to the front door where they discovered a large pool of blood. And laying in the blood, investigators discovered 3 unspent live rounds from a pistol, what appeared to be the handle of the knife from Carole's neck, and several pieces of hard white plastic of unknown origin.

They, like, couldn't figure out what this plastic was. Once they confirmed that there was nobody in the house, the attacker wasn't there, a team of investigators started searching the Thompson's 2 floor home, hoping to get some insight into what happened at all. Now the first thing they noticed was that the front door had been locked from the inside with the safety latch, like a little chain latch, But the door had been pulled so hard from the inside that it had actually come away from the frame slightly. Wow. So somebody was trying to get out desperately.

Also discovered on the floor by the door just under the rug was Carole's wedding ring. Oh. Which is just like

That's very chilling.

Yeah. Like, what? Now upstairs in the bathroom, investigators found, several smears of blood in the sink, which led them to believe that whoever had attacked Carole definitely tried to clean up after themselves before leaving. And they also saw that there was about 6 or 7 inches of water in the bathtub. It was just so weird.

From there, they followed the blood trail back to the primary bedroom, which had been completely ransacked. Like, it looked like somebody had been looking for something in particular in a big hurry. And while it was a mess, they couldn't help but notice that there was no rhyme or reason to the chaos. So they thought it was possible that Carole was attacked, like, maybe, like I always say, some kind of robbery gone wrong. That seems staged, though.

But it felt way too staged, they thought. And on top of that, nothing appeared to be missing. Yeah. I mean, they found a diamond ring by the front door.

Yeah. Whenever it's, like, no rhyme or reason to the ransacking Yeah. It's definitely staged.

And nothing is missing?

And nothing is missing.

Like, hello?

Like, come on.

So there was there was ample evidence of a struggle obviously having occurred throughout several rooms in the house, and it seemed like Carole had fought back or at least tried very hard to get away. But despite that, they couldn't really determine the sequence of events, and they really couldn't tell where the assault had actually started.

Yeah. Because it seems like chaos.

It's chaos, and everything is just a mess. And it kind of just looked like once the attack started, the attacker and the victim ran all throughout the house in several rooms, and probably even doubled back actually more than once. So they canvassed the houses or the house on both sides of the street for several blocks. But other than the Nelson's and the Pearsons, nobody had seen or heard anything out of the ordinary that morning. Given the time of day, a lot of families had gone their separate ways by the time the attack would have happened and wouldn't be back until, like, late that evening.

That's true. It's like work school, you know, errands, all that

stuff. Other than a few droplets of blood on the sidewalk, there was no evidence that a crime had ever even occurred out there or that Carole had crawled her way to the neighbors for help.

Wow.

Which when you think about how badly she was injured is insane.

That's incredible.

Yeah. So while they were in the process of searching the home, Carole's husband, t Eugene Cotton Thompson So his name is t Eugene Thompson, but he's better known as Cotton. Cotton's wary. That's what I thought. That's what I think of.

While the detectives were searching the home, he arrives home. Cotton arrives home. He had been at his law office downtown when he got a call shortly after 9 AM from the Nelson's son, Sydney, saying that there had been an accident involving Carole. Sydney didn't tell him too much because, obviously, he's like, you have to drive here.

Yeah. And he's like, and I don't even know much.

And nobody even knows exactly. So he just said there was an accident. By the time Cotton got the call, Carole was on her way to Anchor Hospital. But instead of going directly to the hospital, Cotton drove back home and actually even stopped briefly at the Nelson's house before then going back to his own house, which was definitely a little weird. Yeah.

And like, I'm sure you're not thinking straight, but it was something that people took note of. For sure. I can understand that. Yeah. So he told the police he had left the house that morning around 7:30, and he was taking his son Jeffrey to school, and then he went to his office.

So typical morning.

Is that also a a well trekked alibi?

Uh-huh. Around 8:30, he called the house to confirm with Carole that, he would be picking up the kids at school. And he said, other than that, that was the last time he had spoken to her. He said, at that time, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. She didn't sound distressed.

Nothing. But by the time they finished the search of the house, detectives had actually discovered very little in the way of evidence, and they really didn't have any leads to indicate what exactly happened in this house. Obviously, the attack had carried out through multiple rooms covering the walls, the curtains, the rugs, everything in blood. But as for why and how it all happened, they were at a loss. But based on all the evidence, they theorized that Carole had been hit at least once with a piece of large heavy rubber tubing, which they found on the kitchen floor.

But they believe that she was also likely assaulted with the butt of a gun Wow. Because the handle of which was broken in the process, leaving all these shards of plastic by the door.

Oh, that's what that was.

Yeah. And she also sustained several stab wounds from what they concluded was a small paring knife. Holy shit. And that's the handle that they discovered by the front door.

Damn.

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And The Butcher Game, oh 0, Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Go to audible.com/morbid and discover all the years best waiting for you, like my sister's titles. So while they are still searching through the house and trying to figure out what the fuck happened here, doctors at Anchor Hospital did their best to stabilize a badly injured but still alive Carole. She had 25 separate cuts on her head from a blunt object, and several of those cuts had called, had caused a quote skull fracture, brain hemorrhage, and contusions on the brain.

This is so vicious. It's vicious.

And she also had 2 stab wounds on her neck. When she got to the hospital, she was completely unconscious and was quote without measurable blood pressure. Wow. Yeah. Surgeons did their best to revive her performing a tracheotomy.

They also did an external heart massage, which never even actually heard of that.

That's when they literally, like, with their they will literally get the heart pumping with their, like, physically pump the heart.

I didn't even know that was an option or, like, a thing. Surgeons are wild. And they also did, what's called a trepanation, and that was to relieve the pressure on her brain because I think she had she had, like, bleeding. Like, the debris. The skull.

Yeah. Exactly. But their efforts were futile, unfortunately, and she was pronounced dead a few minutes before 1 PM.

That's awful.

Which when you think about that, she arrived on the doorstep around 9 that morning, like, so badly attacked. Until 1 PM. 1 PM. Like, she fought hard.

Been in agony, though. Yeah. That's what kills me.

You just hope that she wasn't since she was

on hold. I hope she was in complete shock.

Yeah. So in 1963, violent home invasions were pretty rare in the US, and especially in the middle of the day in a middle class neighborhood. Yeah. This is not something that happened a lot. And when it did happen, the motive was typically robbery.

But in this case, nothing had been stolen and aside from the bedroom, it really didn't even seem like the killer had gone through the Thompson's belongings at all. It kinda seemed like whoever attacked Carole had gone to the house to do exactly that. And given the amount of violence done to her, the objective clearly seemed to be murder. Yeah. But the question that they had to ask was who would have wanted Carole Thompson dead?

So going back a little ways, Carole was born and raised in Saint Paul, and she had spent her entire life there. Like, she's lived her her entire life. She was really well liked. She was a mother of 4. She was super super active in her kids' lives.

She was the den mother for her son's boy scout troop. She was a leader of her daughter's brownie troop. And when she wasn't coordinating the lives of 4 really, really active children, she was organizing events at their church. She was the president of the Woman's Association, a member of the church choir, and she even taught a kindergarten class.

Oh my god. Like, Carol is

a The most wholesome woman ever.

Like, what a what a badass. Oh, yeah. Organizing for very active young children's lives are not that alone is the

That's a lot.

Is hard to do. Yep. And then you add on, like, being the den mother, like, being a part of the boy scout troop, a leader of the brownie troop, a kindergarten church, teaching a kindergarten class, being a member of the choir, a president of the women's association. Like, she's literally everything.

And she also, on top of all that, I think I mentioned it later, she was taking classes too.

Yeah. At the same time. She's what a badass. Yeah. I can barely handle my shit, and I don't have half of that.

I don't even have kids, and I don't know what I'm doing half the time.

I'm like, that's that's wild.

That's a lot. Exactly. She was she was liked by everybody, and she had all that going for her. So the police are out of law. Who doesn't like Carole?

Everybody does.

And she's like a young mom. You know? Like, who's what's she getting into? Like, you know, I feel like she's not getting into, like, organized crime here or something, I assume.

No. She's not. So frustrated by the lack of evidence and the any leads at the scene, investigators started questioning the family and the neighbors. As a criminal defense lawyer, detectives actually had to wonder if 1 of Cotton's previous clients had been maybe disgruntled and wanted to get back at him by targeting his wife. How awful.

Yeah. But, I mean, it happens, so I can see why they started there. And Cotton handed over a list of previous clients, but he also insisted that he couldn't think of a single 1 of them who had been dissatisfied with his legal services enough to act like that.

Yeah.

You know, like, do something bad.

I feel like you would have an idea if somebody was that disgruntled.

Definitely. Because you would think that there would be, like, steps leading up to that.

You would at least feel like, you know what? This guy was really angry. And, like, I could and he's dangerous.

And probably got maybe, like, made like a verbal threat

at the

very least. You know? So investigators also started digging into Carole's background, of course. And in a lot of ways, she was pretty I don't wanna say ordinary, but, like, she led an ordinary life. Like, I like to shout out to them.

Yeah. According to friends, she was very much an extrovert, much known and much loved by everyone, they said.

Carol.

Other friends described her as somebody who was quote interested in everything and constantly learning.

I love people like that. I know. She seems like I love people like that. They just wanna keep doing stuff.

Yeah. I I feel like Carol seems like somebody we definitely would have gone along with. 1 friend told a reporter she was always trying to gain more knowledge. And in fact, like I mentioned earlier, the reason that Cotton had planned to pick up the kids from school that afternoon was because Carole was taking night classes and she had plans to go to class that evening. Yeah.

On top of everything that she's doing, she was going to a class.

Yeah.

Now by most accounts too, Carole and Cotton's marriage had been a good 1. They always seemed happy together. People said they were people said they were an anchor in the neighborhood. They were organizing parties all the time, events all the time.

Jeez.

Like, things looked really good from the outside. Carole met Cotton when she was a sophomore in college. And 10 months later, she dropped out of school and they got married. And then a few months later, Carole got pregnant with their first child. And she really started on her career as a wife and a mother, which was very of the time.

This is the sixties. And she approached that with the same enthusiasm that she did everything in life. She was super excited, like, fully devoted to everything, kids and husband.

Carol seems like the type of woman who when she does something, she fucking doesn't.

Yeah. She doesn't half ass anything.

Carol whole assed everything, and you can see that.

Like, even more than whole assed, if that's possible. Yeah. In the public and even in the press too, she was described as the pinnacle of a 19 sixties housewife. But in private conversations

I'm waiting for a but.

There's always a but.

Because I was like, you can't tell me this is just the way it is.

No. Yeah. In private conversation the interesting thing is I'll tell you what happens, but it's not even that. Like, on Carol's end, you're like,

I don't know. Like, it Really?

Doesn't explain this necessarily. In private conversations with friends and neighbors, detectives were starting to develop a little bit of a different picture of Carole. It was true. She was a very devoted mother, but not everybody believed that she had abandoned her own dream so willingly, and not everybody was convinced that Carole and Cotton's marriage was a good 1.

I did wonder when you said, like, she dropped out of school and they got married.

And she still has this love of learning, obviously.

And it's like, obviously, that absolutely if that was her choice and she was happy with that choice, then more power to her. Yeah. I just wondered. I had, like, a weird little Well,

it seems sudden too.

That's the thing. But obviously, it

was just rumors. But some of the women in the neighborhood speculated that while she might not have been having a full blown affair, Carole did have a friend that everybody referred to as Big Red Woah. Who seemed more interested and attentive of Carole than was considered appropriate at the time. Oh. Nobody said they saw them doing anything, like, scandalous or anything.

He seemed to like Carole.

He seemed to pay a lot of attention to her.

Okay. Well, that's not her fault.

No. And she's beautiful. If you look up the picture, it makes sense. So investigators soon learned that Big Red's real name was Kenneth Moran. He was a local man in his early thirties.

He met, Cotton and Carol when he sold them some windows and doors about a year earlier. And he and Carol shared a lot of interests, so not long after meeting kind of kind of became part of their social circle. According to him, he and Carole would visit museums together, go to galleries. Sometimes he would drive Carole in the kids' places when Cotton was unavailable, but he insisted they were just friends. There was nothing more to it.

And he claimed he actually hadn't seen Carole since the previous November and didn't know anything about her murder. He also had an alibi for the day of the murder, which was confirmed by his boss, so he was quickly ruled out as a suspect.

So I wonder, like, because I don't know if it's gonna go any further than that, but I'm like, they it sounds like they were just, like, good friends. Yeah. Like, legitimately good friends, and maybe maybe on his end, he liked her.

I think I think they definitely, like, thought the other was attractive probably. And, like, I think it was also really tough to have a friend of the opposite.

I was gonna say this was such a different time too.

And especially in, like, a small town and a close knit community. For sure. I think they probably were just really good friends who, like, maybe found each other attractive, but it doesn't really sound like across the line at all. Okay. So even though they had ruled out Kenneth Moran as a suspect, his presence in Carole's life definitely contributed to an emerging portrait of probably an unhappy woman in an unhappy marriage I mean, I to some degree.

I can absolutely see that. Yes. Like, you know?

And in fact, further interviews with friends and neighbors revealed that Carole's relationship with Kenneth was a source of frustration for her husband, Cotton. And 1 afternoon in November, he got home and he found Carole and Kenneth just talking in the backyard and demanded he walked back out there and demanded that Kenneth leave and not come back. Like, he was I think he was starting to probably hear people talking, and I'm sure his pals were teasing him, that kind of thing. So he was like, stay the fuck away from wife.

And you're like, you know, I kinda get, like, I can see Yeah. Because you're like, you think there's varying degrees of appropriateness when it comes to a relationship like that when you're married, especially. Mhmm. So it's like, I can understand that. From an outside point of view, it can be like, oh, you know, they're just like That's a nice.

Friendship. And then I'm like, but you know what? If you're in the relationship, it's probably gonna look a little different.

Well, like and this is just me, like, to each their own. But if I knew that Drew had a close woman friend that he was like driving our kids around with, I'd be like, I'm not super comfortable with that.

I too would have a problem with that.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So for her part, Carol told a friend, and this kind of explains what you were wondering earlier. She said quote, she did not dislike Kenneth and was attracted to him, but loved only her husband and children. Aw.

So she was like, yeah. Like, I he's handsome and like, I like being around him, but I only love my kids and my husband. Aw. Just she just sounds like the purest. Like,

truly. She really does.

Now the other thing was the blow up in the backyard had resulted in Cotton becoming more attentive to her and the kids, which she appreciated. She's like, you know, I got a little

fire on his butt.

She's like, I miss Kenneth. Like, he was cool to hang out with, but this kinda worked out.

That was great.

It was a testament to Carole's popularity too that so many people were willing to cooperate with investigators and that they were offering whatever insight they had to her character. But their descriptions of her life and personality, even the gossip, really didn't do much to point them in the direction of a killer. Yeah. If anything, the interviews just confirmed detectives earlier feeling that Carole Thompson was the last person anybody would have wanted to see dead Yeah. Murdered even worse.

Like, everyone on the

outside of her life seemed to really like her.

Yeah. Like, she didn't really have a problem with it.

She wasn't beefing with anyone. Yeah.

So in the absence of new leads, investigators turned their attention back to Cotton, of course, the husband, who did look particularly suspicious after detectives discovered multiple life insurance policies.

Oh, I knew those were coming.

Life insurance policies in Carol's name from multiple different insurance companies.

You gotta go. That's it. You gotta I don't know how this ends. Yeah. So I'm not gonna sit here and I'm not gonna dog on somebody and say that it's definitely them.

But I can? You can. Okay. Yeah. I think it's

pretty. Come on. I think it's pretty.

Different life insurances from different companies and this happens. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, what about a week after the murder, it came to light that there were 2 term life insurance policies in Carole's name, 3 accidental death policies in her name

Oh, no.

And 3 group term life insurance policies covering each member of the family, All totaling more than a $1,000,000 in coverage back then, which today would be $10,000,000. More more than $10,000,000.

Wow. Yeah. That would make my red flags go flappy flappy flappy.

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So there's 8. 8 insurance policies.

That's bonkers. Like, that's insane.

That goes crazy.

That goes absolutely bonkers. The news of the policies obviously caused out quite a stir amongst those who knew the family, as it should, since that much coverage seemed pretty fucking excessive by any measure. In his statement to the press, Ramsey County Attorney William Randall told reporters, Thompson is the applicant for a beneficiary of the policies, which are due to expire next month. Oh. Yeah.

Are you telling me I'm telling you.

This piece of fucking shit. Yeah. You did something.

So the discovery raised some new questions about Carole's death and investigators obviously wanted to talk more with Cotton. But rather than address the matter with the police privately, Cotton Thompson released his own statement to the press via his friend, Douglas Young. Douglas. He didn't even go do it for himself. He had his friend do it.

Don't involve Doug.

Yeah. Don't don't involve Douglas.

Come on.

In the statement, Young laid out a detailed tally of the insurance policies in Carole's name, and he included many, many lengthy specifics about the payouts and the purchase prices. Just like a very unusual amount of information that most people wouldn't understand or really give much of a shit about.

Yeah. It's a great way to confuse people Exactly. And not wanna think that you're the guy. It was strategic for sure.

Now, as for why he purchased so much insurance, Cotton said, we had no debt bills or indebtedness to speak of, and we felt that we could readily afford up to a up to $200 a month on insurance as to each of us. It's like, I

do have like 55,000 insurance policies.

That's the thing. Like, I feel like having a life insurance policy. Absolutely. But I don't understand having 8.

Yeah. I don't understand that.

Most are like, damn. Like, you got really good deals on the other. According to Cotton, they did have the children in mind when they purchased the insurance, and they just, he said they hadn't intended to keep it beyond the children aging into adulthood.

Which you're like, okay. Yeah. That all sounds great. Yeah. Why do you have 8?

You just don't

need 8.

That's the thing. Like, you're not answering my question.

Yeah. Cotton. The most is

Why do you have

8? There's 6 family members, 6 policies,

the end.

And I'm pretty sure 1 policy can cover multiple people. Yeah. I don't know. So that could be wrong. But

Well, it's like why I just I don't know. Like, that just it seems excessive.

It it absolutely does. So the explanation seemed kinda reasonable. Even if the number of policies and coverage were excessive, people were people were willing to, like, look past it a little bit. It's not, like, totally out of the realm of, like,

you know.

It's just a little, like, normality, but it's, like, that's it's still excessive to me. It raises your eyebrows. It does. But what investigators still found unusual was that Cotton also hadn't been forthcoming about the insurance policies when they asked him immediately after Carole's death. Like, he didn't say anything about these.

They found them. Which it's like, that's a little weird. That's real weird. When they ask you and you're just like, oh, yeah.

No. No. But at the same time, you're like

but you also know it's gonna make you

look bad. Sound bad.

And remember, he's an attorney.

Yeah. So he knows that's gonna make them, but also it's like, they're gonna find them. Yeah. That's the thing. So just be upfront and be like, listen, I know you're gonna find these things and you're

gonna question me about them, so let me get ahead of it. I think he thought that he was smarter than everybody else.

He could've he could, outrun this.

Yeah. And they also thought it was weird that when the details of the policies came to light, he chose to send a prepared statement to the press instead of just talking to the detectives who were working on his wife's murder case.

Yeah. That tells you a lot.

You know? Mhmm. In fact, according to the Saint Paul Police Department and the county attorney's office, neither received a copy of the statement that had been given had been given to the press, and they only learned about it when it hit papers on the morning of March 27th. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. That's shady behavior.

So they didn't see any of that coming. And then there's this, like, lengthy ass statement. Yeah. So the original policies appeared to have actually been taken out by Carole or at least somebody who signed Carole's names to the form.

Interesting.

But investigators decided to send the documents to the FBI for handwriting analysis to confirm that it actually was Carole's handwriting. And in the meantime, they continued their investigation, but openly admitted that they had really made very little progress in the weeks following the murder. Police chief Lester McAuliffe said, we have a great deal of circumstantial evidence, but the case isn't complete by any means. We need a break to crack the case. And little did they know that break was a coming.

It was gonna find them. Oh, no. So in their struggle to make any headway in the case, detectives revisited the scene and revisited the evidence that they found in the home. For the most part, the evidence collected from the house was pretty much what you would expect to find from a home, except for the pieces of plastic that I love gift giving so much. It just, like, warms my heart to give somebody a really awesome gift that I know they're gonna love.

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That caused the pistol grip to break and fall on the floor, and that's where the plastic came from. But the problem was they didn't have the gun that the pistol grip had come from, and they actually weren't even sure what kind of gun it was at all. Wow. So they didn't have a lot to go on. But despite the lack of information, they held a televised press conference where they showed those broken pieces of the pistol grip and they asked for the public's help identifying the weapon.

And within a week, the Saint Paul police got a call from a man named Wayne Brandt. He was a Saint Paul salesman who claimed that the gun they were looking for was his 7.65 millimeter lugger pistol, which had been stolen from his apartment on February 14th, just a few weeks before the murder. Holy shit. He was certain that this gun was his because he

actually recognized the pistol grip as 1 he made for himself in a

shop class. Stop it. Grip as 1 he made for himself in a shop class.

Stop

it. Yeah. Several years earlier. According to him, the gun was 1 of several items stolen from his apartment along with a television, a diamond ring, and a typewriter. Wow.

Still on the ship. And now he's gotta call and be like, yeah. That gun piece found at that murder scene, that's my gun. But I promise you, I wasn't there. Now he's gotta go through the whole rigmarole.

I know. I can't imagine. And good for him for

being like, oh, that's

mine because some people wouldn't.

I know. A lot of people would be like,

I'm not gonna wrap them in that. Right? We love a Good Samaritan.

Yeah.

So a few days later and by chance, a lot a lot of things in this case just came together by chance, which I like to believe is my girl Carol of death.

The universe is working for her.

Yes. So police arrested a man named Willard Ingram during a holdup, like, during a legit holdup. Ingram had a long criminal history, and he was actually willing to provide information about other crimes in exchange for leniency with the whole holdup case. And it just so happened that he had information to share about the pistol used in Carole Thompson's murder. Oh, shit.

He admitted that he actually robbed Wayne Brandt's apartment and stolen the gun, but insisted he had nothing to do with the murder itself. And he had given the gun to his friend, Norman Mastrian.

Oh my goodness. The sisterhood of the traveling gun.

It's about to go crazy. You have no idea. Oh, ma'am. There are so many people involved in this. It blew my mind.

So he steals the gun, but then he gives it to his friend Norman.

Yes.

So Norman Mastrian was a 40 year old former prizefighter with mob ties. Oh. And he was mostly known to Saint Paul police for kinda like a series of petty crimes. That was until he became the prime suspect in a 1962 kidnapping and murder of a local bar owner.

What the fuck?

Yeah. Invest investigators actually hadn't been able to find enough evidence to convict him for the murder, and he was let go. But pretty much everybody agreed he was the killer. Holy shit.

That means he's walking.

Mhmm. So on the morning of April 19th, a group of detectives knocked on his door with a warrant for his arrest, but he refused to let them in or come outside. He wasn't letting them in and he wasn't going out there. That's not shady at all. No.

So after speaking with the county attorney, the detectives were actually given the authority to take him by force. Uh-oh. So they kicked down his door and they put him under arrest without further incident, luckily. Now once they were at the station, he said he didn't know anything about Carole's murder. He refused to say anything more without a lawyer.

Now, obviously, this was frustrating. But by then, investigators had already found a second witness.

Shut up.

A man named Henry Butler, who was now in custody pending trial for a robbery. Is everyone okay?

No. The answer is no.

Criminals are everywhere. Criminals Oh goodness. In your hair. You mean criminaling? Every everybody stays criminal Yeah.

In this time of Saint Paul. So Henry Butler claimed that he had seen Norman Mastrian in possession of the stolen pistol. But he said he also saw Norman give the gun to another man. Shut up. This gun is changing hands yet again.

And this time, it goes to Dick Anderson, yet another criminal who had left town a few days earlier.

Well, and this seems shady too.

Mhmm. So the connections that led from Willard Ingram to Norman Mastrian to Henry Butler Henry Butler, excuse me, those all made sense. They all had very lengthy criminal histories. They were all known to associate with other criminals. Like, it was like a criminal fucking enterprise.

They stay criminaling. Yeah. They stay criminaling like you said. But Dick Anderson, on the other hand, he made less sense. He was a twice wounded military vet who had fallen on really hard times, and he turned to petty burglary just to try to get by.

But he seemed to be a far cry from the more hardened criminals that he was currently being associated with. But once the warrant for Dick Anderson's arrest went out, Saint Paul police got a tip from a reporter that he was actually staying at the Tropics Motor Hotel in Phoenix, Arizona. So when Phoenix police arrived at the hotel at the motel actually, they found Anderson in the lobby, luggage in hand, ready to check out, presumably to avoid arrest. Woah. He had definitely been tipped off.

Yeah. It turned out that the fucking reporter who gave the tip to police about him being in Phoenix in the first place, actually conducted a phone interview with Dick Anderson and let him know that the police were looking for him in relation to this murder and this whole slew of shady characters.

What a dumbass. Right? Like, are you serious?

Like, what are you looking for here?

And you're fucking up the investigation.

What are you doing? Like, you're playing I know what he's looking for.

He's looking for a byline.

Exactly. So Anderson told the reporter that he was only in Phoenix for a few days for vacation and that he didn't know anybody named Norman Mastrian. He didn't know anybody named Henley Butler or Willard Ingram. He repeated these denials to the Phoenix police once he was arrested and said he would sign the extradition papers. But as the papers were being drawn up, he changed his mind and instead contacted a prominent Phoenix criminal attorney to rep him.

Wow. Yeah. He then said, I have no knowledge of the crime back home, only what I read in the newspapers. It's a big stink here. Okay.

This murdered woman is a big

stink here.

I would say so. Yeah. So while detectives in Saint Paul waited on Anderson's extradition hearing, they started interviewing his friends, including the man who had actually been arrested with him in Phoenix, a man named Richard Sharp.

Richard Sharp. Another guy.

Like Anderson and the others, Sharp was a known criminal. He had actually fled to Arizona with Anderson to avoid prosecution for a recent burglary that he was involved in.

Can all these men stop stealing other people's shit?

They literally cannot and will not.

Yeah. Sticky fingers Magoo gang here. Surely.

But like the others, he was willing to exchange information in order to get leniency on his own shit. So in a 23 page statement given to the police, Sharp told investigators that Dick Anderson was lying. He said Dick Anderson actually was the 1 who murdered Carole Thompson.

What the fuck?

And that he needed Sharp to contact the quote unquote payoff man on his behalf.

Shut up.

He was waiting for his money. According to the statement, Anderson told Sharp that Norman Mastrian had paid him $3,000 to kill Carole Thompson. What? Yeah. So it literally just all went full circle.

Holy crap. Now investigators actually did find that Norman Mastrian had paid Dick Anderson to kill Carole Thompson. But what they couldn't figure out was why some small time criminal with mob ties would want a Saint Paul housewife dead. Like, how did that connect?

I would when I said earlier, like, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have connections to organized crime, like She doesn't. Woah. But somehow they know about her. End up here.

Right. So they're sitting there trying to figure out exactly what you just said, and they get another lucky bait a break when they arrest yet another motherfucking criminal, Sheldon Morris, who was a local cab driver and friend of Norman Mastrian's, who claimed he knew where Dick Anderson had disposed of the rest of the pistol that they were still looking for. Shit. The stolen pistol. Under threat of prosecution as a co conspirator in the murder at this point, Sheldon Morris led detectives to a remote location in the woods where the gun had been tossed Wow.

And they found

it. Shut up.

Yes. So now with the murder weapon in their possession and the murder suspect on his way to Saint Paul from Arizona, investigators were really close We're really, really close to closing the case on Carole Thompson's murder. They knew that Norman Mastrian had received the murder weapon from Willard Ingram. He's the 1 who stole it in the first place. So Willard Ingram breaks into the house of the man who had, you know, made this pistol.

And then he gives it to Norman Mastrian, and then Norman Mastrian gives it to Dick Anderson. Okay. And he also, along with the gun, tells him he promises to pay him $3,000 to

kill Carole.

$3,000. $3,000.

To take a human life.

Yes. But

Can you imagine how excited the investigators felt after going through this whole thing and having no idea getting this fucking gun, this murder weapon in the middle of the woods. Like, can you imagine how I it must be the most insane feeling to finally get there.

You have, like, they literally started with, like, next to nothing. And they ask the public for help. And this guy, like, thankfully, can't comes forward and is like, yes, that is my gun, but it was stolen. To pull that thread. Track down, like, what how many?

Like, 4 or 5 different criminals in the local criminals in the area.

Exactly. That's what I mean. Like, they pulled that thread Yeah. And kept pulling it and to end up with the actual murder weapon after in the middle of the woods is wild.

And crazy how, like, all of these people were willing to turn on each other because they all they they locked out because they all had cases that they were facing. To get yeah. That they wanted leniency on. Exactly. So it was just like lucky strike after lucky strike.

Seriously. So they knew all of this now, but they were still missing the last piece of the puzzle that would, you know, wrap this entire story together, make it make sense. Yeah. They needed to know who hired Norman Mastrian in the first place because he didn't know Carol Watson when he want her dead.

Where is this coming from?

So just like they had done earlier, detectives went back to the basics of the case, and they looked for anything that would connect Norman Mastrian to the Thompson family. And that's when they found that list of previous clients that Cotton had given them at the start of this whole investigation. And, of course, it included a familiar name, Norman Mastrian. So there's no disgruntled Nope. Former client.

Nope.

There's a client that you felt so comfortable with.

Precisely. Pre fuckingcisely. So after Mastrian was arrested that previous year on the suspicion of the kidnapping and the murder, He consulted with Cotton Thompson Cotton Thompson, excuse me, about potentially suing the the county for false arrest. Even though everybody was pretty convinced that he did this, he was so ballsy that he was willing to sue the county. Luckily, the suit never went forward, but it was the only connection they could find between the 2 of them.

Wow. The last piece of the puzzle finally fell into place when Saint Paul detectives were able to get Dick Anderson back in custody in Minnesota. Because remember, he was in Phoenix. Yeah. But they they sent him on over.

They extradited him.

No. For some reason, I have such trouble with the word extradited. Extradited? I I like, I can say it in a conversation, but when I look at it, I can't say it how I'm supposed to.

I have words like that too. Yeah.

It's so weird. So they they get him back. Initially, he stuck to his story. He denied knowing anything about the murder. He didn't know any of these people.

Why are they even here?

Who, me?

Where am I even? What?

I didn't steal the cookie from the cookie jar. No. Not me.

That's literally all I could think of the entire time I was going through this.

He's just like, nope.

We're on the same page. But by late June, he finally broke down and confessed and told them everything they wanted to know. Oh. According to Dick Anderson, he had been hired by Norman Mastrian to kill Carole. But it was Cotton Thompson who had arranged the entire hit.

Fuck you, Cotton. Her husband. According to Dick Anderson, he'd been given instructions to sneak into the house through the side door before dawn and wait in the basement until everybody had left the house.

He had this motherfucker come into his house while his children were still in

his house. 4 children.

He had a mobster with a fucking rap sheet Yep. Sneak into his goddamn house while his kids were in there. Yeah. Never mind what he did to Carol. Yeah.

Exactly. Dick Anderson doesn't have mob ties. It's Norman Mastrian who has mob ties. Dick Anderson.

Dick Anderson is like the guy who they were like, this doesn't even make sense that he's connected to all females because he's like a petty thief.

Exactly. And like So he's a he's

the 1 that you wouldn't even my goodness.

Even expect him.

That's the thing. And he's a brutal fucking monster.

Mhmm. Who knew? There's so many people involved in this that it's so hard to keep track of everybody. But he really is the last person that they

He's the 1 that they were like, why is this guy connected to all of this?

He's literally like a military vet, like, not tied up in the mob, not tied up

But like it was like petty stuff.

Exactly. So, yeah. He has this guy just fucking sit in his basement while his kids are getting ready to go off to school. And his wife This

guy doesn't know. Has no idea what he's capable of?

Yeah. Yep. Wow. It's so messed up. So the plan was that Cotton would make a phone call to the house once he got to work, which would be Dick Anderson's signal to act because he would hear the phone ring.

And then he would know that everybody except Carole was out of the house. So that morning, Cotton filled the bathtub with 6 or 7 inches of water, and the plan was for Dick Anderson to strike Carole on the back of a head on the back of the head with a heavy piece of rubber hose, which they hoped would knock her unconscious. And when she'd been disabled, Anderson was to place her body in the bathtub, making it seem like Carole had hit her head getting into the tub and drowned.

Oh, so he really put some thought into this?

Oh, he did. Because the accidental death would have triggered the double indemnity clause in several of the insurance policies, thus paying up the higher amount.

Oh, so he was hoping this would look like a total accident.

Yeah. It's god awful what happened to Carole. But it's also like, yeah. That's why you don't hire somebody to murder your fucking wife, dude, because it's not gonna work out for you. Nope.

But unfortunately, like we just said, things did not go to plan. So after Cotton placed the call to the house, Anderson started going up the stairs from the basement, but the the stairs were creaking as he walked. So he was nervous that the noise was gonna give him away, so he waited a minute or 2. And during that time, Carole went back upstairs to lay down in bed, which sounds like something she probably never did Yeah.

Because she

was so busy all the time. But she just goes back to her own bedroom, and Anderson appears in the doorway of her room. Oh, god. So she panicked assuming that it was a robbery, and she jumped out of bed, which he then immediately hit her on the back of the head with the host. But it didn't disable her like they hoped it would.

Instead, Carole fought back hard, and she was actually able to knock him to the floor. And she made a break for the stairs.

Oh, she got out.

And she stopped quickly to grab her robe so that she wouldn't run out of the house and

be safe.

Oh, no. Yeah. Anderson caught up with her in the hallway, but she was able to escape him again and she ran for the front door. But when she reached the front door, she found that it had been locked with a chain lock. Holy shit.

When you hear how why this was locked, it's gonna break your heart. So as she fumbled to get the chain off the door, Dick Anderson obviously caught up with her and pointed the gun at Carole. Now, still thinking that she was being robbed, she took her her diamond ring off her finger, her wedding ring, and offered it to him. But he responded by pulling the trigger of the gun. To both of their surprise, the gun jammed.

Sending him into a panic, and that's when he started beating her with the gun so aggressively that the pistol grip broke and fell to the floor. Holy shit. It was also at this point that those 3 rounds from the clip got came loose and dropped to the floor. So that's why they found those unspent clips. Damn.

Now, when the beating didn't appear to have killed Carole, he went to the kitchen and grabbed a paring knife from the door, which he used to stab Carole until the handle broke. Now, finally convinced that she was dead, he went upstairs to the bathroom where he tried to wash the blood off his hands and arms, And he went to the bedroom to stage the scene to look like a robbery. And while he was staging staging the scene, he heard a noise downstairs and ran to look by the door. And that's when he saw that Carole was gone. So she most likely actually played dead to make it seem like

So she could escape out the front door. Exactly.

Like she fought him as hard as she did and then had the whereabouts to pretend she was dead so she could get away. That is horrifying. So panicked when he saw that she was gone, he stopped what he was doing, and he fled the house from the kitchen door and got the fuck out of there.

Wow.

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Now this is gut wrenching. Years later, Jeff Thompson, Cotton and Carole's son, would recall that on the morning of his mother's murder, his father instructed him to put the chain on the front door before they left for school.

Piece of actual fucking shit. He had

his son. You got you put that on your kid? Yep. Like, fuck this guy into oblivion. Into a blib.

Fuck this guy.

And Jeff even said he thought it was strange because they never chained the door. And he said if if it hadn't been locked, obviously, his mother would have been able to escape her attacker. He said, I had never done that before. I haven't forgiven my father. Father.

And you never should. Never. Fuck that guy.

Never. Like, why can't you do I don't want you to do any of this, but you put that on your fucking son. You can't even just go do it? Like, you're making him a part of this?

Can a man, a criminal, who he has no idea what he's capable of hiding his house while his kids are walking around upstairs. He has he has 0 moral compass. To involve your attention.

Like that is so so messed up.

A piece of garbage.

So on June 21, 1963, you will all be very happy to hear detectives arrested Cotton Thompson in connection with the murder, labeling him as the payoff man in the conspiracy. Because remember, they were looking for the payoff man. When he appeared before the judge for his arraignment, Cotton quote looked haggard, had tears in his eyes, and his voice cracked as he answered the judge's questions.

Oh, fuck you in your tears.

Yeah. Get fucked. The news of Cotton's arrest obviously shocked the friends and neighbors of the Thompson family. 1 neighbor said there was no conflict between the Thompsons recognizable or known to their closest friends. And others recalled how quote, he and Carole never missed a Sunday taking the kids to church.

And how Cotton was active with Jeff's scout troop. All of it. Like, everybody was shocked. Even the most obvious mode of the large insurance payout even didn't really make that much sense to everybody. Because remember, he's a successful lawyer.

He's making like $40,000 a year back then, which today is more than like $400,000. Yeah.

Like a year.

Yeah. He's like essentially making a doctor salary. Yeah. So it wasn't like he was in desperate need of money. But in reality, the motive for Carole's murder had pretty much been staring them in the face since the beginning of the investigation.

There were so many claims that they were this ideal couple, but it seemed like the neighborhood gossip had been right all along. Cotton and Carole's marriage was on the rocks for a long time. Author William Swanson said, there were all kinds of things that wouldn't jive with Cotton's idea of a wife and mother in 1963. Before they were married, Carole had obviously big dreams and she envisioned a very exciting life for herself. She wanted to go after all her interests, all of her passions.

But her marriage and obviously the quick arrival of children pretty much sidelined all of her goals and required that she turn her attention to supporting her husband's ambitions.

Yeah. But regardless It's the perfect time for that time, that too in 1963, especially. Exactly.

Exactly. But regardless of how she felt about having to prioritize her responsibilities as a wife and mother, like I said in the beginning, she approached all her new responsibilities with like like open arms. She was happy to do everything she had to do. And by all accounts, she was a great wife. She was a great mother.

Yeah. But the longer they were married, people said the more unhappy Carole had become. Oh. That author, Swanson said, Cotton was a tough self self absorbed character. And soon it became clear that he was intent on doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted to.

He was having affairs with other women, and he was just completely indifferent to Carole's wants, Carole's needs.

Wow. So he's just like a literal slimy piece of fucking dung Yeah. From the bottom of an elephant's foot. Yeah.

I would say, like, he's even lower than that, honestly. Later, their son Jeff would say, I know my mother knew about my dad's affairs. She was saddened by a lot of his behavior. So it would not surprise me if she was to reach out to another person. Oh, that's great.

Which honestly by heart. Is probably why she was so close with Kenneth Moran.

Yeah.

Like, I'm sure they like, she just wanted somebody to be there for

her. Someone.

And it's it doesn't even really sound like they were having any kind of, like, a whole set of fear.

Someone that pays attention and is kind to her.

Yeah. And like and they of course, that other person was Kenneth Moran. They had shared interests together. They gave a shit about each other. And, you know, nobody really knows if there was an affair or not.

But it seemed pretty obvious to everybody that there was some kind of connection to it Yeah. To each other. And that was until Cotton put an end to that relationship.

Which makes me even angrier that that motherfucker was out there doing everything he wanted, and he was being that possessive. Yeah. And here I was being like, oh, yeah. You know, like, I guess when you're in the relationship but he was doing everything you didn't want it out there in those streets.

Yeah. Whoever and whatever. Asshole.

Exactly. And she just has

a male friend and you're literally just a friend.

Fuck you, Cotton.

But the final straw, at least as far as Cotton was concerned, came just 1 day before Carole was murdered. Apparently, that afternoon seemingly out of nowhere, Carole turned to her daughter Margaret and asked what she would do if she went away for a while. Like, what would you do if mom went away for a while? And Jeff Thompson remembered this happening and he said Margaret was very surprised and concerned, and the thought was that she was planning on leaving my father. Looking back on it, I hope she was.

However, she would have been foolish to tell him.

Oh, Jeff.

And that's like his son.

You give Jeff a hug.

I know. I do too. Now nobody knows if Margaret said anything to her father about her mother planning to leave or if he just came to that conclusion on his own. But either way, it seems that Cotton Thompson knew or strongly suspected that Carole was most likely planning on leaving him.

Yeah. And, I mean, those, policies were set to expire the following month. Exactly. So he was it's either act now or don't act. Exactly.

So he quickly made made sure made plans that she would never get out of this marriage.

Fuck that.

Which is it's like you don't wanna be married either.

Yeah.

You're you're going here, there, and everywhere with everyone.

Well, he wants all this fucking money. It's like you're making that money. That's the thing. I'm like, what do you do

with it? At a certain point, what are you doing with it?

Exactly. Why do

you need more? You just don't.

That's your point. Struggling. Like, it's not like 1 of these situations where it's like the family is struggling financially, and they're, like, last you know, and it's obviously it's never okay. But in those situations, there's a desperation factor that, like, plays into it. That's not even here.

He just wanted more.

Yeah. I'm like, you have 4 kids. Holy shit. They all are doing what they wanna do as far as activities. It sounds like you guys are throwing parties.

You're throwing events. Like, what do you need more for? Why?

Fuck that guy.

But after several delays and a change of venue, Cotton Thompson finally went on trial for the murder of his wife on October 27, 1963. He pleaded innocent. And in his opening statements, prosecutor William Randall laid out the state's theory about Thompson's motive for the murder. He said the motive was not only to enable mister Thompson to collect the more than $1,000,000 in life insurance he had, he had recently taken out on his wife's life, but also to free him up to see other women.

So just leave. Just leave.

But he wouldn't have got his money. Without you anyways. Wouldn't have got his money, so

he wouldn't have been happy. You have plenty of money, a piece of shit.

Seriously. But Randall pointed to Cotton's long history of infidelity and 1 particular incident a year earlier where he apparently told his mistress, just give me 11 months, implying that after that time frame, he would be able to marry her. Girl. 11 just give me 11 months. I mean, why the fuck are you being so specific?

Yeah. It's like, girl, come on. Like, first of all, stop fucking a married guy. And second of all, when he's saying when he's giving you a time frame, you gotta wonder. You gotta wonder what that time frame implies.

You sure do. Testifying for the prosecution, 1 of the several insurance agents told the jury about the quote sense of urgency Cotten conveyed to them when he was buying up all of these policies 11 months before Carole's death.

Come on.

Cotton told 1 agent that he had a quote unquote premonition in which Carole would meet with a tragic accident.

And no 1 thought to tell anyone? No. Guys, we gotta use the stuff between your ears.

You're great, madam, as Pablo would say.

What are you doing? Yeah.

He said that was why he was in such a such a hurry to get all these policies.

So some guy, some high powered defense attorney Has a friend of mine. Fucking everything that with 2 legs Yep. Is out here telling you that he's gotta get 85 insured life insurance policies

You're not far off 80.

On his wife, his young wife And his family. Healthy wife.

His family too. And he's gotta do it quick.

Quick quick quick. And you know why? He had a vision. It's so weird. I just have this weird vision that she's gonna meet with a tragic accident and die.

And none of you sat there and said, you know what? We might wanna call someone and maybe put some tabs on that guy because I feel like that's shady behavior. No. Yep. They were just like, sure.

Sign it here. I'll get my check.

Okay. Cool.

It's all money. Everyone's just like, whatever. I got paid. Yep. Money talks.

Damn.

No. This is what the defense went with. The defense explained that Cotton was just an eccentric when it came to insurance. No. No.

He's just eccentric.

Nope. That's not 1 of those things. He's just kooky.

He just, you know, he just fucking loves insurance. He loves insurance. Yeah. You guys know Jake from State Farm. Cotton's kind of like that.

You know, Cotton insurance is my kink. It's sexy thing. That that's not okay.

Nobody's eccentric when it comes to life insurance policies. An eccentric for life insurance. Like, what? Hello? Are we really just giving them that?

So we're

really just, like, not taking all the responsibility off him.

Ridiculous. So pointing to the excessive coverage he'd purchased for his home and car, they continue to say he was an eccentric.

But he was

it. Those amounts were also double the average coverage at the time. So he really did put, like, excess coverage on everybody. He is eccentric when it comes to home insurance Yeah. And life insurance.

But if the urgency and amount of coverage Cotton had purchased on his wife's life weren't compelling enough, The testimony of the state's chief witness, Dick Anderson, definitely gave insight to Cotton's cruelty. Oh, boy. On the stand, Anderson recalled the attack on Carole, and he said, she managed to get out of the tub, so I knew I had trouble. I was instructed either way, so I went to pull the gun. So, he, Cotton told Dick, no matter what happens, you pull that trigger and you kill her.

Wow. He is so fucking cold. Yeah. He then explained Dick explained to the jury in no uncertain times that he had been hired by Norman Mastrian, who was hired by Cotton. Also, according to Anderson, there was supposed to be a second murder.

Anderson quoted Norman as telling him, the Broad's father will be next in 6 or 7 months.

Apparently What the fuck?

They were gonna they were gonna kill Carole's dad as well. Apparently, this was Cotton's plan to gain an even greater access to Carole's family fortune, which she would have inherited upon her father's death.

I am.

So if she's dead and her father dies, Cotton and kids get everything.

So this guy is a literal fucking monster. Yeah. Like, no amount of money would ever satiate that, man. That's like, what is wrong with you?

Like, what is wrong

with that's more money than you'll ever be. Like, what is wrong with me?

And I just I never understand valuing that much money over human life. Like That's the thing. And especially and I we always say this. I feel like when it comes to a spouse murdering another spouse, but it's like, you take vows. You walk down the aisle with that person.

In this case, you procreate multiple, multiple times with this person, and you don't feel anything. That's the thing. I'm like, you don't feel any connection to them?

Drew and

I get in a little tiff, and I'm like, I'm the worst person ever in the world. And I feel so bad. Like, what? You don't feel anything?

That's what I don't get. Like, I'm like, I I could never I can't imagine causing harm to John. No. Or having someone else cause harm to John. Emotionally, physically, anything.

Anything but for money. Like, I and it like, I just can't I can't even picture I can't even picture that thinking that money is going to, like like, that you're gonna hold that money and feel good. Like, what is wrong with you? I think he was. You have to be dead inside.

I think yeah.

You have to be dead inside.

This guy has to be dead inside. 100%. And and also, like, to kill your wife, 1, is absolutely just, like, unthinkable. Then to kill her grieving father 6 or 7 months later first of all, you're gonna make him wait 6 or 7 months. Yeah.

And then secondly, you're also killing her father. Like, what?

So her poor mother has just lost her daughter and her husband?

Yeah. Jesus. So Cotton Thompson did testify on his own behalf, essentially telling the court that he had nothing to do with his wife's murder and that the extent of his relationship with Norman Mastrian was just an advisor 1 year earlier. But he didn't really say much else to convince the jury that he had no connection to the murder. Instead, the defense the defense just argued that the jury couldn't trust a chain of circumstantial evidence and the testimony of criminals who had all turned on each other in exchange for lighter sentences.

But on December 7, 1963, the jury deliberated for more than 26 hours before emerging to announce that they found t Eugene Cotton Thompson guilty Yes. Of the first degree murder of his wife, Carole Thompson. Bye, bitch. And when asked about how they arrived at the verdict, 1 juror said, there was no 1 primary reason for our verdict. We thought, we thought of the case as a whole.

And after waiving his right to a delay in sentencing, judge Ralph Ralph Thawson immediately sentenced Cotten to life in prison, which at the time was Good. The required sentence in cases of, premeditated murder in Minnesota. Rot, bitch. Rot. And in the months that followed, Norman Mastrian and Dick Anderson were both tried and both were found guilty of first degree murder.

Meaning, they both also got life sentences. As you should. Now, Cotton appealed his conviction, of course.

Shut up. He,

appealed to the state supreme court in 1966, arguing for a new trial on the grounds that he had been convicted on false testimony provided by several of his criminal co conspirators. But the Supreme Court upheld the lower court's decision and denied the motion for a new trial. He did end up being paroled in 1983 What? And tried to reconnect with his family, but he was never very successful. Jeff Thompson later said, it's very hard for a child to have a parent in prison.

But once he got out, we never had much of a relationship. I think based on my experience with Minnesota's criminal justice system, that the jury did the right thing.

Wow. Jeff is like a very

he's a a really good person.

He's elevated higher Yeah. Than than, you know, most people.

Like, that is that's Carole's son.

I was gonna say that is Carole's son.

That's Carole's son. That's not Cotton's son. I mean, it is Cotton's son.

I'm sorry. But like that, but you know what I'm saying?

Yes. Now just for kicks, on August 7, 2015, on his 88th birthday, Cotton Thompson died in his sleep after struggling with failing health for several years. And if that's not the universe saying, Especially

on his birthday. On his birthday. I do hate that he got to die peacefully in his sleep.

And I hate that he lived 88 years. Yeah. Like, that's a long ass life.

You got to, like, at least be out. Yeah. That pisses me off. Yeah.

He got a lot of time on the

other side. Rest in fucking distress.

And the universe is always gonna getcha.

She's always gonna die on your birthday if

you do some fuck shit.

Okay. Wow. I told you.

It's it's 1 of those cases that just starts and doesn't stop.

It doesn't stop.

Like like 1. And poor Carol

I know. And her kids. And that's the thing. Like, her kids just went to school that day

Yeah.

And had no idea.

And Jeff, poor Jeff, his dad told him lock that door. And then he spent the rest of his life thinking, what if I hadn't locked that door? Like, why did my dad make me lock? Like, I can't imagine the psychological damage that would do to you.

That's the thing. Like, you'd be constantly thinking, like, why didn't I just ignore that? But it's like But it's like, why would you Why would you ever ignore? And especially in 1963, you're not disobeying your father when he tells you to do something. So

Definitely not. Like, that was just you

did what you were told

Yeah.

By a parent who is supposed to be a safe place and that you are supposed to feel comfortable doing what you're told to do.

And why would you question that? You know, like, they he said, like, they never locked that door. So he did kind of question it, but he's not gonna out loud question it.

And he's not gonna sit there and think, okay. He's having me lock that because he's gonna have my mom killed and

he doesn't want her to escape.

Like, that's not gonna be in your head.

You can never come up with that. That's your worst nightmare.

That's an awful, awful case.

It's such a sad case too because you in the begin like, when I started reading about this case, I was like, oh, like, she's gonna live. She's gonna pull through.

She's gonna pull through.

It's just so sad. That's awful. She was a fighter. She fought hard. To think that she literally dragged herself or crawled a block away

Yeah.

After sustaining what she sustained Yeah. Running around that house multiple times, getting out of the bathtub. Like,

oh my god. She's unbelievable. Truly.

Damn. What a tragic case.

It really is.

But, as always, we hope you keep listening,

and we hope you keep

it weird. But not so whether you go and take out 8 life insurance policies on your wife because somebody these days is gonna say, hey, that's weird, and you're not just eccentric, and I'm gonna call somebody. Yep. And if you work at a life insurance company Call somebody. Call somebody.

Say, hey, this guy just took out 8 life insurance policies on his wife, and that's kinda weird.

And he needs him within 11 months because he had a premonition that she's gonna die unexpectedly in a tragic accident.

Yeah. And, obviously, I know they're not all from the same life insurance company, but still it's fucking weird. Okay. Bye.

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