Transcript of Service Above Self: A Memorial Day Tribute to the Heroes Who Defended Our Freedom New

This is Mick Unplugged. Let us uncover the because, that thing that drives you, that thing that fuels you. I'm ready if you are. Let's go. Chef Robert Irvine. So, Chef, on Mick Unplugged, I like talking to individuals about something that's deeper than their why, and I like to call it your because, right? Like, I think that your because is what drives you and what fuels you. Your why to me is very superficial. If I were to ask Chef Robert Irvine today, what's your because? What's that thing that keeps you going and driving and that thing that keeps you at the top of your game?

Because there are people out there that need my help. That's my because. And that's a true statement. For me, I'm in a blessed position, although I've had to work to get there and fight the good fight, as they say, like everybody else. But now I have a platform I want to continue to use my platform for the betterment of other people that are less fortunate. Whether you be in the military, whether you have a restaurant, whether you're just down and out of luck, I feel that I've been given a blessing to be able to pick you up no matter what walk of life, what revenue stream you have or don't have, whether you live on the street, whether you live in a tent, whether you live in a mansion, whether you're a Fortune 500 CEO, anybody really. And I think that's what drives me every day to get out of bed. Money does not drive me. It never has. It never will. It's about how do we make a difference in people's lives that are lost? And I use this as a great statement because I just had yesterday a 30-year veteran of the airport call me because he's lost.

Right?

Service above self, doesn't know where to go. And I find that happening a lot to service members, firefighters, police officers, all those that have been in service, that when they retire, have lost that sense of purpose.

Mm.

That's so deep. That's so deep. And you talk about all walks of life. You connect really well with people. One of the things that I love about watching you, obviously on TV and then researching you and getting to know you over the last several years and now reading your books is that you are one of the most relatable people I've ever met. Meaning you can give someone tough love, but then you're going to pat them on the back and encourage them to get through it. Like, why? Why and how do you do that?

I feel that— look, I come from a very tough upbringing. You know, we've lived without a house, right? So I've been there. I've lived without food. I've lived without clothing. As a young man when I grew up. Then I joined the military. Then I was the youngest at this and the youngest at that. So to me, there has to be, even in the shows, and you said it quite eloquently there, I'm me. I had some tough teachers. My father was one of them. Not a very, I don't know, loving, yes, but not outwardly showing that, more of a tough character. My mother, the complete opposite, you know? Loved me to death. We didn't have much. So growing up for me was, was an adventure. That's an understatement, you know? Yeah. The early years of TV for me were very different because I was very like in TV, 48 hours, fix it, don't listen. They're failing. But I can see, I can read a P&L and I can see why you're failing at a service in a, in a nanosecond. But what I've learned over the years is after self-reflection is listen more. So if you notice the shows the last, I don't know, 5, 6 years, it's a completely different switch for me to listen to people, compute what they're telling me, and then go back with the answers.

P&L is still the same and the service is still the same and the people are still the same. But if I can understand them a little bit more, it helps me to solve their problems. And early on, I wasn't all about that. I was about, look, I know how to fix it. Be quiet, just let me do my job. And you learn. So I think it's a reflection, self-reflection of me in my business life, in my personal life, in my TV life, which by the way, are all the same because they intertwine so much. And I think it's that reflection of, you know, when you become a TV personality— I won't say star because I hate that word and I hate celebrity— a personality, people look up to you and, you know, we're human, we make mistakes. And anybody doesn't believe in that, then they're just stupid. You know, we make mistakes. That's just life. And for me, to be able to put my life experience into everything I do, all my, you know, 13 companies, my TV shows, my 7,500 people that I employ. I now understand that's what that book was all about, you know, how to lead and build great teams.

And that's through experience and my failures.

Yep. One of the things, and I'm just going to go to the book Overcoming Impossible because And this isn't fluff. It is literally changing my life, starting with chapter 1, where essentially you told me to stop micromanaging. And what's crazy is I feel like most leaders today will tell you, oh, I don't micromanage. Right. But the reality is, if you were to ask their staff, if you were to ask their leadership, micromanaging is what they do most of the time. Right. Like, I will tell you, I probably micromanaged, and I use past tense because I changed, through P&L statements every day, right? Like looking at EBITDA margins, looking at income coming in. And then I realized after reading your book, that's not leadership, right? So starting chapter 1, stop micromanaging. Crazy.

It's interesting. We talk about the book, and the reason I wrote this book is because, look, I, I've done, I think, 28,000 restaurants all be told. 350 on Restaurant Impossible, 93% success after the last 3 years after COVID. But hundreds and hundreds of restaurants call us every week, you know, thousands, 2,000 to help them. And I can only do one a week, right? So I wrote this book not only for restaurateurs and hospitality, but also Fortune 500 company leaders and families.

Right.

Because it crossover. The crossover is very intimate. And there's 4 things I write in that book. And you talk about Chapter 1. Well, you know, we talk about empathetic leadership. What does that actually mean? It means that I know that, for example, you have an autistic son or daughter or a grandmother that fell down or a wife that's got, you know, heart disease or whatever those things are, I have to understand why you come into work every day and you're not the best you can be. And my job as a leader is to alleviate those pressures some way, shape, or form to make you feel good that, hey, I'm taking an interest in taking care of you and your family because, because that's why we do this at the end of the day. And if you know that maybe I pay some medical bills, maybe I give you time off and still pay you, maybe I— whatever that case may be, you're going to give me 100% loyalty and 100% work, and I'm going to be 100% invested in you and your problems in your family regardless.

That's right. That's number one.

Then comes into leadership is trust. Number 3 is ego. Mine as a leader and yours as, as, as a person that works with me. You're not an employee to me. You're a partner to me. And I think that's the difference. And number 4 is authenticity. You can't be like a yo-yo, up and down, nice one day and then, then not nice the next day. And I think if you incorporate all 4 of those, those principles, You're going to have— look, in 15 years, I've lost 3 people in 15 years because I decided to lose them because they weren't a good fit for our organization. They didn't do their job. And there's one thing I will not stand for is somebody badmouthing somebody else and standing on them to get to the next level. That will never happen because I'm a military guy. We've got your front, your back, your left, your right, good or bad or indifferent. We've got to take care of each other. And that's why I tell my team has been so strong for 16 years is because of those principles.

Yeah.

And it's funny, we talk about micromanaging. Let's go back to that piece. I don't tell my guys when to take off, when to work. I have a strict rule that if I get a call from somebody high up in the military chain, Chairman of Joint Chiefs or whatever, or a chief or general, you get the call 10 minutes later, no matter what time of day, no matter where we are. Which side of the coast or which side of the world, you have to pick up in that 10 minutes because somebody else's life depends on that.

Correct.

I don't tell my chefs or my people when you go on vacation, you want 5, 6 weeks vacation, go ahead. Just make sure that your work is covered. And that's really important. So we have a program where the guys— and I've got a chef right now in Switzerland. We're as busy as heck coming up with D-Day. We'll talk about that later. But I don't believe in micromanaging. I, as a leader, here's my goal, here are the tools, here are my expectations, run, and I'm going to follow up, right? That's it.

Joanne Bass, I want to talk about a little bit of your history with obviously the military. My daughter-in-law is a retired Air Force woman.

Cool.

And I'm just so passionate when I see leaders.

Yeah.

Um, because it's not easy. Yes, it, especially in the military, it's not easy.

Yeah.

And your background amazes me. So talk to us about how you got started What made you decide to do the Air Force? Like, go through all of that with us a little bit.

So, I am the daughter of an Army soldier. And so for my entire life, I have known nothing but national defense, right? Like as a military child. And then as an 18-year-old, I'll never forget, I wasn't quite mature enough yet to go to college. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I grew up old school. School, by the way, where my parents were not paying for my college. And I'll never forget, my dad always said, "4 years in the military never hurt anybody." And so, I thought, "Well, I'll do 4 quick years, get a GI Bill, and figure out life." And then at the— and I tell people this all the time, right? So, I joined the United States Air Force, and not thinking that it was going to turn into a lifelong career and a a real honor. But, but at the 4-year mark, I only re-enlisted, Mick, because I had a Honda Civic that I need to pay off. So I wasn't, I wasn't completely all— we're gonna have to get a picture of that Civic and post it— but I wasn't completely all set in. I'm a, I'm a normal 18-year-old like most folks who didn't necessarily sign up for patriotic reasons, but I certainly stayed for those reasons.

So signed up to figure out life, get a GI Bill. At the 4-year mark, signed up to, or Signed up another 4 years to pay off my Honda Civic. And then it was probably about the 8-year mark when I started serving with people who we read about, right? Some of our nation's heroes who have paid the ultimate sacrifice. And I was part of those organizations and those units of true heroes. And so I started to really understand what it meant to wear our nation's cloth and to be part of something bigger than ourselves. And the bigger than ourselves piece is where I like to talk about it, because only 1% of our nation serves. Only 1% of the United States population serves our military. Yet, we are a free and prosperous nation because of that 1%. So it took me a long time to really grasp and understand that, that that what we do is for the sake of our children and our children's children.

Mm-hmm.

Mm. You know, and I'm trying not to get emotional because I, I know who you are and, and what you stand for. And you talk about that 1%.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Why is it that we only have 1%. Yeah. And, and I'm gonna take it a step further because I don't know the number of this, but I don't know how many people that aren't a part of the 1% support the 1%, if you get what I'm saying, right? Like, like, I was not a part of the military, but I can promise you every day of my life goes to support. Yes, right?

Yes.

Why don't we have enough people that do that part?

You know, I am a persistent optimist, I call myself, by the way. I think by and large, the majority of people in our nation do support the military. I think what it is, is most people don't know how to really support the military or have a full understanding. You know, when As we talk about some of the challenges that our nation is going to face when it comes to, for instance, recruiting in the military, if only 1% serve, what I share with people broadly is we can't count on just the 1% serving to figure out our recruiting challenges. We need 99% of America who knows that this is their military. And by the way, I share that often with people. I don't— this isn't my Air Force or my Army or my Marine Corps or my Space Air Force, right? Like, this is America's Air Force, America's Army, America's Navy, America's Marine Corps, America's Space Force and Coast Guard, you know, but it's America. So how do we start to educate and inform? I think it's platforms like yours that really do that. People, again, by and large, appreciate what their service members do for them.

They just sometimes don't know the how. And so now, as I've transitioned out of uniform in the last 20 months, that's part of some of my how is I know the power of our military service members and their families. But I think it's important that we really do educate America on the value proposition of a strong military. And Mick, one of those things I do call our service members America's greatest competitive advantage. Like if you have— Again, if we realize, if employers, if industry, if corporate America really realizes the value that they get when they hire or bring on or onboard a service member, their family member, man, that is talent.

Yes.

Like just anyway, anyway, I think we have back to, you know, your question. I think we have more of an issue of helping America realize how they might support their military.

Okay. And that's your passion now. One of your passions.

Yeah, for sure.

I usually ask my guests at the very beginning what's their because.

Yeah.

That thing that's deeper than your why, right? Like I say this all the time in every episode. Your why is probably your children, right? Your parents, your community, your family. But when I ask you, but why?

Yeah.

That sentence usually starts with, well, because, and I care about your because. And so if I were to say, Joe, what's your because? Why do you do what you do the way that you do it? What's that burning desire and purpose for you now?

Yeah. Why we getting so deep so early in the morning, man?

That's how we do it. That's how we do it.

This is what I've learned. So I would say that my because, I said it a few minutes ago, my because is because I want a free and prosperous First Nation for my two girls and your children and our great-grandchildren. That is why. But I know that the only way for us to have, you know, the freedom of democracy, it's going to take all of us. So the military piece is one component, having a strong military, but we have got to, as a nation, rally around this thing called democracy, value what we all bring to the fight. Industry has to start building stuff. Schools have to start teaching things. Parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles have to start teaching character and citizenship. So that is, again, I'm still trying to figure myself out, but what, because, and why I do the things that I do is because I want years from now to be able to rest well and know that our kiddos have it and their kiddos have it and we're gonna continue being a great nation.

I love that. So speaking of these kiddos, we're in a different era than when you and I grew up, right?

Yes.

And I say it's not bad.

Oh yes, we are.

I tell people all the time, it's not bad when we talk about millennials and Gen Z. They're the most resourceful, generations that we've ever had. But there's more things for them. There's more information, there's more access. How do we recruit them into military and/or service? What's the missing recipe for my kids and those that are going to follow?

That is the question of the century. And to be honest, I don't know. That is not a question just for the military. I think all of workforce in America, and quite frankly, workforce across the globe, is really thinking deeply about how do we tap into the full potential of this next generation. When I served as the Chief Master Sergeant in the Air Force, one of the things I was very much focused on was the people aspect, the people behind the warfighting mission that we have. And I knew for certain that the only way we were going to tap into this next generation and the generations that follow after that is we can't have old antiquated people policies that I came into 30 years ago. You know, our workforce looks different today than it did 30 years ago. The military looks different today than it did 30 years ago. 30 years ago, the workforce was primarily, you know, the man coming to work and the woman staying home. And that is what things look like. And I'll never forget, you know, the old generation military would say, if the military wanted you to have a family, they'd issue you one.

Like, that was a thing. That is not the case in today's modern military family or today's working family. And so we've got to update our HR people policies, and they have to be relevant at the speed that we need it to, to be able to onboard talent that we have. The other thing that I would say is, and this can be controversial, and I've had a lot of my peers seniors in the military kind of freak out when I say these things. But when I think about the military that we're going to need in the future, it looks more like Ocean's Eleven than it does, you know, from 50 or 60 years ago. Like, I care less about the rank that somebody has on their sleeves or their shoulders. I actually care about the potential and the talent and what they bring to the team. And so that's where I think we're going to have to tweak up some of our stuff to reach that next generation. The other thing that I would say, it's interesting because people always say, oh, this generation. And I'm like, they said that about me and you.

Right.

You know, when we entered the workforce. And what I would say is this generation has choice. This generation wants to know that they are part of something greater. This generation is going to ask why. And we better be able to have some transparency to help, you know, just bring them along so they understand the big— and they're so smart and talented, like they know, right? Yeah, they're going to be just fine. It's, it's, it's a 5-generation, you know, we talk about 5 generations serving. It's the other 4. They have to understand this next generation that's coming up.

Robert J. O'Neal. I like to go deeper than people's why, right? Like, I call it your because, like that thing that really is your motivator, that thing that really is what drives you. If I were to ask you today, right, what's your because, brother?

Oh, well, I mean, right now it's to just try to provide a better life. Not that I didn't have a good life growing up, but I'm a girl dad and I want to try to make their environment better than mine was. Just, and again, I was raised fine and not, not a, you know, nothing, nothing horrible happened, but I just want to be in a spot where I can help with, you know, student loans or tuition because I've got, I've got daughters. I've got, as of next semester, I'll have 3 daughters in college and then I have a 1-year-old. So it's like, I gotta, I gotta pay attention to the older ones, but also I have free babysitting when I need it. So just, I think it's important for everyone to realize that the core is family and it's like anything. When you build a base on the way up. You know, if you can take care— obviously family comes first, but in order to take care of your family, you need to have your own personal health, mental health, physical health. Take care of yourself. Take care of your family. Get to know your neighbors.

Take care of your community. And that's going to build out just to make better people. And it's everything like I would rather— now I'm at a point instead of staring at my phone at Instagram or Twitter, I'd rather go with my neighbors, hang out and talk to real people because I think we're getting sucked into a place where we're looking at things that aren't real. And a lot of the forces out there want to try to divide people, and that's just not healthy. I find I'm a lot better off when I don't even look at my phone.

Dude, I'm telling you, man, like my wife and I have this rule, like every day when we're done with our 9 to 5, air quotes on the 9 to 5, we go outside, man. Like we literally just go outside. We go out back and we just become one with ourselves, with nature. Sometimes our neighbors come over, we go, we walk next door. But just that, that oneness with each other, with the earth, with people. I feel like we have a generation that's following us, Robert, that doesn't understand that. And that's what I try to connect with my kids as well, too. Like, hey, you got to be outside.

Yes, I— that, that's what the first key to, you know, as someone who deals with everything from a little PTSD to depression, the first key is to get out of bed. And that's like if your alarm goes off, great. If you get up without an alarm, good. Get up. And then if I'm having a bad day, I'll take my shirt off, force a smile, and go stand in the sunshine. Even if there's clouds, get some vitamin D going, get outside, hear nature. And I think, like you're saying, get outside with a walk. Like, that is so good for mental health. Like, do, you know, 10, 20 minutes a day just outside, man. You're going to find life's a lot better.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I want to go to something that I heard you say publicly in a keynote, man, and I want people to understand this. And I know you've probably told this story a million times now, but for our listeners and viewers, you talked about when you got the notice that you were going to be on the team and that it was time to go, right? SEAL Team Six. And you had to tell your kids goodbye. And, and I don't think people understand the brevity of that moment, man. Can you walk us through that, like, from a father's perspective, but also the duty and service commitment that you had where it's like, you didn't even think about it, right? Like, tell them goodbye.

It was, I would almost cheat a little bit because when we, and you know, not just the Bin Laden raid, but other ones when we said goodbye, we would try to leave at night so that you didn't need to explain. I had young daughters at the time and I didn't want to explain to them the gravity of what we're about to do, but I'd like to see them at night and be able to say, you know, and then I, you know, I'd have a 10-minute drive into work before we got on the plane. I can cry for those 10 minutes where no one gets to see me. But just, it's easier to leave them at night. But on the bin Laden raid was tough. My youngest daughter at the time was 3 and nobody knew where we were going because we just got back from deployment. So, no one expected us to go overseas, but I knew we were going somewhere where we, this, the bin Laden raid was a high-risk mission. We're, it's a one-way mission. And so, I told my 3 and I, we couldn't leave at night. We had to leave during the day.

So, I told her, hey, dad's got to go to work. And, you know, just a way to tell your 3-year-old goodbye. And she, She told me to wait and she ran upstairs to a room and she grabbed a Hello Kitty suitcase, put a pillow and her Mr. Elephant in it, and she left it by the door and said, when you get home, you're going to take me on vacation. However a 3-year-old can form that sentence. And that's one of the hardest things I've ever seen. I actually just had a coffee with her just now because obviously it's been a few years. But yeah, saying goodbye to your family again, getting back to the base, that's the hardest part. And it almost, it almost asks the question, is what you're doing worth it? Is this worth it? And for us in that case, because so many families were affected by 9/11 and we might die, this is worth it. This is what we're here for. You know, the passengers on United 93 did not wake up that day to fight al-Qaeda. I've been training to fight them. We found bin Laden and I'm going to go do it.

And I mean, even as morbid as it might sound, what an ending. That's— he's going to die. If we die with him, that happens. But we're going to do this. Saying goodbye to the family is hard. But once you get there and you're on the Netflix documentary, you can hear me say, I'm on this mission. This is the team and we're going to kill them.

Yep. I love that, man. Another really cool thing that I saw in the documentary was, and I had this quote written down after the mission, or I shouldn't say after the mission, after you have done your deed to Osama bin Laden, right? Then you got to get out of there. Yeah. And what most people didn't understand was like, it wasn't easy to get out, right? Like you're trying to get to Pakistan and you, You said, I'm just trying to get to 90. I'm just trying to get to 90. I'm just trying to get to 90.

It was, it was a tough spot. You got to figure when we went into Pakistan, we're going to Abbottabad, Pakistan, which is actually a resort town. And we're not supposed to be there. It's not— we didn't invade Pakistan. We're not at war with Pakistan. And it's a first world country. And, you know, out of respect for people living their lives, the first people to show up would not have been al-Qaeda or even the Pakistan military. It would have been the Pakistani police or locals that are armed that like, what's going on? And the last thing I wanted to do was kill a policeman doing his job. So we have that like very fine line there, which means we got to get in and get out quick. So we, but we found so much stuff there, we stayed a little bit longer to gather more intelligence. And meanwhile, outside, our interpreter and our snipers were like, hey, the locals are gathering, the cops will be here, we got to go. And so we're dealing with that. We don't want to get in a gunfight, especially there, a lot of bad stuff can happen, but you got to figure we might run out of fuel too.

So we stayed extra minutes, the helos are going longer. And then we get in the helicopter and we're leaving on a mission. We're supposed to die, but we have 90 minutes now. We got 90 minutes left on a one-way mission. But if we can cross the border in Afghanistan in 90 minutes, we get 50 years. I got to see those kids again. And so that 90-minute flight, I found myself in a spot where— and I give myself my own advice every day. If you're worried about something right now that your worry will not affect, you're wasting your energy. You need to get your mind off it because you're thinking the wrong stuff. So I— we could get shot down at any moment by a Pakistani jet that launched, and justifiably because we invaded, but worrying about a missile is not going to stop it. So I just started my stopwatch on my wrist and I just— I was looking at that. I'm sitting next to guys I've been working with forever and we're all in this together. One missile kills us all. We know that. We probably wouldn't even feel it. But it's been 10 minutes, you know, then it's been 20 minutes.

Yeah. Kind of looking around, 30 minutes, 40 minutes. Now it's been 50 minutes. Got to get to 9060. 70 minutes. And you can really— I'm getting goosebumps right now. And I love sports analogies because, I mean, anything in life that you do successfully, you didn't really do it on your own. You got a team. Someone helped you. Someone supported you. Your wife, your husband, your mother. Somebody supported you. Teammates. So I started thinking about Yankee Stadium, top of the 7th and no-hitter. Like, if you're watching it, you don't want to say anything, but yeah, I don't want to jinx it. And then it's been 80 minutes. I got to get to 90. And I started thinking about the single greatest sporting event in American history in 1980, when Team USA, the hockey team, was playing the greatest hockey team ever assembled in the Soviet Union. And that team hadn't lost. I mean, they're beating people by 10 goals. They won every gold medal since, I think, the early '60s or '50s. And these college kids have no business being on the ice. But now they're winning in the third period. And you can hear the crowd counting down.

You can hear Al Michaels, 10 seconds, 5 seconds. Do you believe in miracles? Yes. And I'm thinking that stuff so close. And then I hear the pilot. He was flying a little faster than 90 minutes because 85 minutes in he said, alright, gentlemen, for the first time in your lives, you're going to be happy to hear this. Welcome to Afghanistan. And that's, I mean, that's for the, I think that's the first time on a mission over 400. I actually started giving high fives out because this, this was good.

Yeah. I mean, I, I got goosebumps just hearing you retell that story that I've heard. Right. But just, just hearing it in this moment, man, like, I still get there. You know, Robert, you have, you know, 400+ missions, man. And I have this saying that I give to leaders and to athletes: you don't rise to the occasion, you rise or fall to your level of preparation.

Yes.

And one of the things that I know about you and the missions that you've been on, what most people don't realize is how— I don't even call it overprepared you guys are, but just how prepared you freaking are. And the things that you simulate and the things that you go through, just because in that moment you don't know what's going to happen and you have to be able to react and not think. Like, talk to us about preparation and why that's so important.

Well, it's a fine line. You want to be prepared for contingencies. You want to think of all the stuff that could happen. If this goes wrong, what will their reaction to that be? But before you do any of that, you need to make sure you are the master of the easy stuff. You got to make sure you know the basics. And the easiest way that— I mean, it all came down, you know, we invent tactics, we meet al-Qaeda, we fight the Taliban, we come up with other tactics. But the further and more experience we got, we found ourselves getting— keep it simple, keep it simple. And when someone says like, you know, even after a helicopter crashing in the front yard, how did you clear a compound as big as Osama bin Laden's? And the answer was simple. The guy in front of me went left, I went right, and we did that over and over. And that's what we did. We mastered the basics. And the way that I put that now is never talk yourself into an ass-whipping. It'll come.

CZ Lopez. And CZ, you know, on this show, I always ask my guests, like, what's your because? What's that thing that keeps you motivated, that keeps you held accountable, like that thing that's deeper than your why. And I know from time to time your because changes. So in the season that you're in right now, what's your because? Why do you keep doing the things that you do, brother?

My because is simply because we're temporary. You know, our existence is numbered. We don't know how long we have on this earth to make a difference. So we have to make every second count. You have to make every relationship, every interaction count. To ensure that we set up the next generation for success. That's always been my because, and it keeps me driving forward, man.

I, I love it. I love it. And, you know, I'm gonna get into the book in a second because as I've read it, and for all of you that are watching or that are listening, the book is right here. If you're watching, I'm pointing to it, but Carnivore Leadership, go get it now. It's going to change your life. There's a lot of lessons, but Before we get into that, man, let's talk about your career. Like, let's talk about what shaped you to where you are today. So for those that don't know you, right, highly decorated. I've never met a person that's in our circle, that's in our pack, that doesn't just oogle over CZ, right? Like, talk to us about your journey a little bit.

I think it was a series of misfortunes that actually led to the path that we ended up taking. And when I say we, I have to go ahead and give credit to Janet quite a bit on that. Yeah, but, uh, was going to college, uh, going nowhere really fast. Decided to enlist in the United States Air Force. Started, uh, being stagnant by virtue of the job that I took at the time. And I mentioned job, not duty, because I, I don't think I really aligned with my initial duty, which was transportation. It wasn't really challenging me, but it wasn't until I became a special operator, specifically an Air Force pararescue man, that I found my purpose in life. From that moment on, every day, every day seemed like it was never work. I was looking forward regardless of whether the situation was going to be unpleasant or something meaningful. It was the same drive and motivation to show up. And that was because something needed to happen at the time. So I ended up doing the special operations bit for about 2 decades, and then I got another call to be a senior enlisted leader, meaning to step away from special operations and become a figurehead for larger organizations.

I was not too crazy about that prospect, mainly because I love my tribe. I love being a PJ. I love saving lives. And I love the team that we had around us— operators, support, civilians. It didn't matter. They were just phenomenal people. But the need for leadership in those other echelons, specifically the higher echelons, was something that appealed to me. And I thought that I had something to offer. I thought that I could do it different than the average, and I thought that I will go ahead and give it the same level effort and rigor that I gave Special Operations. That eventually led to being selected as the highest enlisted ranking member in the entire Department of Defense, Department of War today, the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman. But it was that, that series of misfortunes. And we can talk a little bit bad, a little bit more about what that bad means that eventually put you in a position to where you can make make the most difference.

So let's talk about the bad then. Let's talk about the misfortunes. Like, for those that are watching or listening, like, break that down a little bit.

Yeah, so it begins obviously with not having a purpose in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and going to Sacred Heart University. It was a very tough spot to be because as a 19-year-old, you're trying to figure out what the hell your life is going to look like, and college to me wasn't going to do that at the time. So I just went ahead and went blind into military service. You know, I knew that, hey, you know, there's a purpose in there. You know, you're serving your nation and you're going to get the things that you require the most in your life at this moment, which is independence, uh, discipline, and that purpose, right? Being part of a bigger team, not just an individual. So when I got into service and I was And I was given the duty of a transportation specialist. I was sent to Iraklion Air Station, Crete, Greece. And I got into trouble right away just because of my wild-ass ways. I got an Article 15. That is a nonjudicial punishment for adverse behavior. And I got demoted. I almost got kicked out of service there at that moment. And that was the first wake-up call to realize that nothing is owed to you.

You have to earn your keep every day. You have to follow the rules and you have to make sure that you exemplify those rules if you want to be a cut above the rest. And I fell grossly short at that moment. So that was wake-up call number 1. Wake-up call number 2, in order to fix that one, I needed to find a purpose. And that's when I decided to join the ranks of pararescue. And I didn't make it through the first try. I was a 147-pound kid. My legs were not really all that strong. And man, I just couldn't keep up with the finning at times, swimming with those big rocket fins. And I got a setback. I was given an opportunity to come back at a later date. And it was at that moment that I had my second wake-up call. It's like, all right, so you really have to work harder than the average in order to make it, because there were some guys that were just breezing through the program. and I was having a tough time. So what did I do? I went ahead and parked my car. I started riding my bicycle everywhere to go ahead and get that leg strength that I needed.

And I started swimming at least 5 days a week just to go ahead and make up for my shortcomings. By the time I got back to the training pipeline, the instructors were like, holy crap, what the hell did you do, man? You must really want this. And That was success story number 2 out of adversity. Then throughout my tenure as a senior enlisted leader and as a pararescueman, there have been many other failures that ended up becoming synonymous with lessons. I never looked at a failure from then on as something that was going to hold me back. I looked at failures as something that was going to make me stronger, that was going to give me further drive, more motivation, a chip on my shoulder to just go ahead and keep on pressing forward. And that became probably like the greatest lesson learned to where in several bouts of adversity, I found opportunity to go ahead and prove myself that I was better than who I was the day before.

I agree. And you and I, we've had this conversation, right? Adversity reveals character and failure shows that drive that you have, right? And I totally believe that a lot of folks don't want to accept the lessons that you learn, not just about yourself, right? But, but just the lessons within the lessons sometimes, you know. I, I think social media today, and we could talk about just media in general, they always highlight the wins. And so I think from a societal standpoint, we just assume that like everybody who wins was born a winner and they never go through anything. But, but you were proof that, like, in order to get there, in order to climb the mountain, right, you got to get pushed back a little bit. Like, no one just easily goes up the mountain. No one easily does that trek. Like, you learn things. Talk to us about one of the biggest lessons that you've learned and how that's parlayed into leadership for you.

I believe that one of the biggest lessons that I have learned is the value of humility. And I will explain what I mean by that. When you become a special operator, you get put in a certain pedestal, right? So you have a certain standing, you have a specific uniform that is unmistakable. People expect certain things about you because you have gone through one of the most rigorous training pipelines and crucibles that the Department of War has to offer. And you have that aura about you that This is the person when the chips fall that is going to make things happen. Sometimes those things can get to your head, specifically when you start ascending through the ranks and people are shyer and shyer about telling you no, you're doing something wrong. Everybody tends to agree with you. You start getting a lot of yes-men around you, and that is very dangerous because if you start believing that hype, you're eventually going to become what many call a victim of your own success. And that is not a victim of your own success because you continue to do good. It is just that you're a victim of success to where your credibility is going to diminish over time because you become an egomaniac and you decide to go ahead and start disregarding the input and the candid feedback and the criticism.

Of people that matter.

Michelle Mace-Currant. I love starting my episodes by asking my guests about their because, that thing that's deeper than your why, that purpose, that mission that drives you. And it changes over time, right? So if I were to say today, Mace, what's your because? Why do you keep doing the things that you do and giving so unapologetically from your soul?

I love this question and that you started with today, because I think it's clearer for me today than it has been at any other point in my career in the various chapters. And being an entrepreneur post-active duty military, quite the shift, quite the change in just structure, you know, used to having a chain of command and very clear mission and orders and being part of a high-performing team. And now I'm a solo entrepreneur. There's no playbook. There's no wingman who's in the thick of it with me, even though I have some amazing people that help whenever I need them. And so I tell people, they're always surprised that I'm so passionate about what I'm doing now, because it seemed like I've already done things that people look up to in such a unique way. But I feel so clear that I'm creating my legacy now. Even though I got to fly for the Thunderbirds, which is just a cool thing to be part of, and it gave me the platform to do what I do now. It gave me the perspective and the wisdom to be able to present my ideas in a way that really impact people in this new chapter.

But I get to tangibly see the inspiration happen in front of my eyes when I give a keynote speech, when I talk to someone afterward and they tell me how that moment where they felt like I was talking directly to them just changed their life. And now with my book, I get these amazing pieces of feedback that are very similar where they're like, I feel like you wrote this for me and I know what I'm going to go do differently now. So it's not just, I feel good. It's I'm going to act accordingly because of that. And so having this platform and this position and this timing to be able to not just feel fulfilled myself because I get to control my schedule and I'm my own boss and I have creative control of the narrative, but just to see this legacy being left when I talk to a 20-year-old woman who wants to be a pilot, or I talk to a 65-year-old man who's retiring and feels like he's lost his identity. And so, I feel like that's still sort of my why, but I like that you took it a little bit deeper.

Because being an entrepreneur is hard and uncertain, and it just keeps me running towards the target without hesitation, maybe naively sometimes, but I absolutely love it.

I love that. I love your answer. And I love— I've told you offline, like, I just love the person, the human being that you are. So inspired by you. You know, my best friend in the world is celebrity chef Robert Irvine, whose mission, whose because is helping our heroes, right? Like our military, our veterans, our servicemen and women, first responders that really make what we do in the United States easy. And I know that we all have adversity, we all have challenges, but Michelle, without people like you, I don't think the world would understand the true adversity, the true challenges that we would have. So again, I just want to thank you for all that you have done, all that you currently do, and all that I know you will continue to do. So, thank you for that.

No, that, that means a lot. And Robert has just done such an incredible job of using the platform he's been given to give back to the veteran community. He's, you know, just a handful of people are doing it at that level and he's one of them. So, I, I love that connection.

Absolutely. So, you are Wisconsin's finest, born and raised in Wisconsin, right? My youngest son went to undergrad at Beloit in Wisconsin. So, I got to spend a little bit of time in that great state. Talk to us a little bit about growing up in Wisconsin, but more importantly, when did you know that, yeah, I'm going to go support and fight and defend for our country in the Air Force?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Growing up in Wisconsin was a great place to grow up. And, but my dad would be very sad if I didn't tell you when I was growing up, we didn't live anywhere close to Beloit. But we would drive past the exit for it and like we were going on a road trip and he would say, you know how they named that town? It's the, it's the sound a quarter makes if you accidentally drop it in the toilet. The most obscure thing that I remember from my childhood. I don't even think I've ever been to Beloit, so I apologize for people from there that are listening, but that is what my dad would say. That's the most dad story I've ever heard.

Of course. And well, I won't, I won't bash Beloit because my son went to college there, but yeah, like it's one of those towns that has a ton of history, but like you can miss it if you don't pay attention. Right. That's, that's weird.

Yeah.

Lots of hidden gems like that in the Midwest in general, I think. But yeah, so I didn't grow up in an aviation family or military family. My grandpa, my dad's dad had been a lieutenant in World War II in the Navy. And so there was a small exposure there. He passed away when I was 2 years old, so I don't have any memories of him, but his trunk, his like military green metal trunk with Lieutenant Kern stenciled on the end of it, was at my grandma's house growing up. And I used to open it, take out all his stuff. There were letters that he had written to my grandma. There were black and white photos from him in like the Pacific during World War II. He was in the thick of it. And his uniforms were in there, and I would actually try them on and put on his spectacles, and his wooden pipe was in there. And it was just like this treasure trove of what felt like adventure coming from a small town in Wisconsin. And so I think that was in the back of my mind. And fast forward to high school where I need a way to pay for college, and I'm a good student, but my parents don't have a college fund for me.

And I start talking to my dad about this. And he had gone to UW-Madison for a while, and he had seen all of the ROTC cadets running around. He wasn't in ROTC, but he was just like familiar that it existed. So, we start talking about that. We end up settling that Air Force ROTC would probably be a good fit. Great scholarship opportunities. I, at that point, I didn't want to be a pilot, but the Air Force, I associated with this idea of exploration and adventure, and it just felt like the branch that I got the most excited about.

Yeah.

So, I go off to college in Minnesota on an ROTC scholarship as a criminal justice major, because my plan is to do 4 years in the Air Force after I graduate to pay back my scholarship, and then I want to be an FBI agent.

Okay.

That is my dream as like a 16-year-old.

Wow.

I don't know why. I always joke that I loved The X-Files growing up, and you know, the most accurate representation of what FBI agents do, hunt down aliens. But there we are.

That's amazing.

And then halfway through college, I'm already going to commission as a lieutenant when I graduate college. We end up visiting an Air Force base and I see two fighter jets take off in full afterburner. And I am just awestruck. It is the coolest thing I have ever seen. Goosebumps, jaw dropping. And I'm like, forget the FBI. How do I go do that? And then it became my singular focus on how I could make that happen.

So, as much as I feel like I know about you, I did. I never knew the how you got there. Like, that's awesome. That's awesome. So, let's talk about You know, you're enlisted, you're, you're, you're doing amazing things. When did you realize that you're a leader? And there's a purpose that I'm asking this question, but, but when did you know, when did you accept the responsibility? I'm going to ask it that way. When did you accept the responsibility that I have to lead? I have to lead people.

That's such an interesting question because that's one of those titles that I always felt a lot of imposter syndrome around.

Yeah.

And it's because I didn't stay in the Air Force long enough to be what the Air Force talks about as like leadership, like a squadron commander.

Right.

Right. Like I would've, I left at 13 years. Had I stayed in for probably 2 more years, I would've gotten into a position like that, but I left before that. And so, I had so many moments where I was a leader, even if it wasn't at that level and that title.

Yeah.

Right. Like I was a flight lead in formation. I was a mission commander putting 60 aircraft in the air, and I'm the one in charge of that entire thing. I go to the Thunderbirds and I'm, for 2 years, my title is the lead solo. And so, it's funny because from an outside perspective, I was leading in so many different ways. And when I was in that role, when we took off and I was the mission commander or the flight lead or the lead solo, I very much was empowered to be the decision maker, to, you know, execute as the leader. But I had a harder time kind of identifying as a leader in general, right? Like when I'm not officially in that role. And I don't think it was until almost when I left the Air Force And I started to interact much more with the civilian world where people would always refer to my leadership and refer to me as a leader. And I was like, wait, is that, is that true? Is that accurate? And now 3 years later, you know, writing the book, I think really solidified that for me because so much time went into thinking about the experiences in my career, pulling stories from them and being like, what wisdom is here that other people can learn from.

And now I'm speaking as a thought leader, which is a whole nother ballgame. And so, it was a bit of a circuitous route to get there. I don't feel like I commissioned into the Air Force as a lieutenant and was just like, "I'm a leader now." I definitely stumbled around it for over a decade.

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