Transcript of Episode 545: Sarah Shahi: Playing Sex/Life Billie & The Courage To Live and Love Fully As A Woman New

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

Welcome to Habits and Hustle. We have a very special guest. Actually, you're my girl crush. I didn't even tell you that when I walked, when you walked in, like a platonic, if I were to be gay, you're the girl I would wanna go out with. What a compliment.

Thank you so much.

But you must hear that all the time. I mean, yes. By the way, okay, we have Sarah Shahi. I, I only— I got introduced to her through that show Sex/Life on Netflix, which I'm sure like half the planet got introduced to you because that show— did that show blow you up?

It did, yeah. There were 170 million people that tuned into that show in its first year.

Yeah.

And it just— it did. It put me on this platform that I didn't expect. And, you know, it's like as an actress, when you sign on to do a role, you never You never sign on anticipating the end result. So it's like, I just was very compelled to tell the story. The show and the scripts were really paralleling some of the things I was going through. And I was just like, I have to do this. And so I did. And it just blew up in a way that was so unexpected. And I'm very grateful for it because it's allowed me to connect with a lot of women. And that's where my book was sort of— birthed was from the themes that was explored back then.

Oh, absolutely. First, because first of all, what year— because the reason why I think it like hit such a chord or struck such a chord with so many people is I'm sure so many— well, so many women have probably felt that way or going through this. Like, if you guys haven't seen the show Sex/Life and you don't know what we're talking about, I don't know, you're living under a rock, but you should definitely watch it because where's the binge?

It's It's worth the binge, for sure.

Especially season 1 is worth a binge for sure.

Yeah.

And so what— wait, so what year did you actually film that show?

We filmed that show in the fall of 2020. So I think by the time everyone sort of opened back up, that was like August or September of 2020.

Oh, right. COVID. Yeah.

And then, yeah. And then it came out in 2020— late 2021 is when that first season came out.

Season came out, right? And so, okay, so because you were an actress, like, if people don't know, like, you were, you were like a very— you were a working actress doing lots of big shows prior to Sex Life. Wasn't like this was your like first thing into your first entree into like entertainment, or—

no, no, not at all. I've been, you know, fortunate enough to have a long-standing career, but it was primarily in network television, you know. I was playing cops and lawyers and stuff like that, right?

Person of Interest, was that the show?

Person of Interest was one. There was something else called Illegal, something else called Life. I was on The L Word.

Oh, that's right. That was a big show.

Yeah, that was a big show. And, you know, I just always— I mean, this is one of the subjects I talk about in the book. I was always wanting to make that transition into things that felt darker, more dangerous, where I got to, like, cuss and say fuck. And, like, you know, I wanted to do that for the longest time, but I was too scared to say no to the opportunities that were coming my way. And my reps at the time were very encouraging me— were very encouraging to me to just stay in that lane. And then there just came a day where I was just like, this is not what I came here to do. Like, this is not why I quit my life in Texas. I came out here to be this, like, gritty actress who talks about or who gets to do things that feel inspiring and period pieces and, you know, just like material that resonated within me. And I actually quit working. Like, when I say quit, I say I turned down every offer that came my way for close to 2 years until I got Sex/Life.

Really?

And I was— yeah, I was being offered so much money. Like, showrunners and writers were writing shows for me, and I was— and they still felt very procedural. And I just turned down so much, and my reps were having a heart attack daily. And I was just like, if I do this, I am climbing back into that same hole I am trying to get out of.

Yeah.

Like, I have to trust. I have to trust myself. I have to trust God, universe, whatever you want to call it, that it's coming. And, you know, I was one step away from asking for a TikTok tutorial before I finally got Sex Life.

Really?

Yeah. I was like, either I need to come out with, like, a crystal-infused line of energy bars. Or I need like a TikTok dance lesson because I gotta pay some bills. And then I got a show called City on a Hill. That was the first thing that sort of broke the mold. It was this show produced by Ben Affleck and Matt Damon set in the '90s. And it was like this Boston period piece where I got to like, you know, rock French acrylics and bangs and speak with an accent. And I just remember when the show came out, all the reviews, they were like, and Sarah Shahi, the network darling, like who knew she could do a period piece with accents? And I was like, I knew. I knew.

Really?

And then that lasted for a year. That show, I was only on that show for a year. And then again, I found myself back in the never-ending chokehold of the universe where I was like, oh, what the fuck now? And then another year went by until I got Sex/Life.

So what shows did you have? Did you turn down because you believed in yourself and you wanted to kind of hold up?

A couple of them were written for me. And the fact that I turned them down, they didn't end up going.

Oh, they didn't end up going.

They didn't end up going. Ended up going. And then there was another one. I can't remember the name of it, but it was something that Colby Smulders ended up doing. It was on ABC. I think it only lasted for 6 episodes. She's a marvelous actress, and I thought she did great in it. But yeah, that was another one that was— I remember the writer, he wrote a graphic novel based on my character from Person of Interest, and they wanted to build a show off of that. And it was with the same guys who do White Lotus, like Mike White and that company. And I remember reading the first few episodes and I was like, this ain't it.

Really?

This is not it. And my rep— and I, I was gonna be executive producer, like a whole thing. And my reps were like, what? Like they were gobsmacked in my decision. But I was like, nope, this is not going to make me happy. This is not why I came out here.

Right. Because it's so easy to get it like into that hamster wheel. Like you're making money, you're doing all the network shows.

Oh yeah.

And to stop that, like cold stop that and just like believe that you're gonna, that you're meant for some different path. Yeah. And actually like hold for it is very, very difficult when there's money like right there.

Of course.

The golden handcuffs.

And that's what I had done for 17 years prior to getting Sex Life. And I reached a point where I was just like, my soul is like decaying on the inside, right? Like I was drinking a lot. There were just really unhealthy habits that I was doing to try to cope with the fact that I was so miserable. And then that's when I was like, I have got to take a chance on myself, because if I don't do it now, nobody will.

100%. So then how did Sex— how did it come about? How, like, why did they choose you? How did it come about? Like, what was the whole thing?

Interesting story in itself. So it was an audition. You know, sometimes I get offers, other times I go in and audition. And I'm one of those strange breeds of actors who actually enjoys auditioning.

You do?

Most don't. Yeah, I do enjoy the process because I treat it like it's a job.

Yeah.

Like I've already got the job and I put a lot of work into it. And when I go in, I just let it go and I feel like I'm there to shoot and this is my interpretation and I'm here to play and have the best fucking time while I'm in that room for, you know, 10 minutes. So I love to audition when it's something that's exciting, obviously. And then— sorry, I've just got so many dog hairs on my face.

No, that's okay.

Anyway—

And also tell us, by the way, like how —comes, like, for people who don't know, like, so they call your agent and they're like, hey, we have this show. Did they give you a script to practice and prepare and then you walk in, or do they give it to you on the spot?

They don't always give you— they don't always give you the script, but what they'll give you are what's called sides, which are just like 5 to 10 pages of the audition material. So I remember with this one, though, I had the first 3 scripts. I had the first 3 scripts and I had the material for the audition, which were 3 different scenes. And I was reading it going, oh my God, like, these words feel like they were ripped from the pages of my heart. Like, what the fuck? This is all too real. And, you know, like most women prior to sex— me doing Sex/Life, I was like most women. I felt overworked. I was overburdened. I was, you know, tired. Like, self-care for me looked like adding Metamucil to every meal, you know, and picking parsley out of my teeth for 10 minutes a night. You know, I was carrying the burden at home, at work. It was just like a lot. And I didn't—

Because you weren't working at this point.

Because, I mean, I, you know, there were little things that would— but that was my story for a long time. It wasn't just the year prior to Sex Life, right? Like, that was how I was living life and how I thought I was supposed to live life. Right. You know, I was like, you know, women have been fed this narrative for the longest time where it's like you're not supposed to want for anything more than to support your, you know, partner and your children. You are here in service to them. Your needs come last. Your dreams get buried underneath everyone else's. And you should be happy like that. Right. You should have a smile on your face. Right. All the brownies for the bake sale need to be, you know, homemade. You know, make every soccer practice and PTA meeting or you're to be judged by the other moms. And I was turning myself into a pretzel trying to abide by this archaic narrative. And everywhere you turn, it's being sold to you, whether it's film, movies, art. I mean, even, you know, not to go back to sex life, but even sexually speaking, like women's sexuality was placed last.

Yeah. You know, it's like we are here to service men. That's what has always been shown. So that was my—

but that's why also it did strike a chord, right? Because people saw that in a net— like, it wasn't like Netflix is basically network TV for all intents and purposes now, right? People watch Netflix more than they watch, you know, yeah, the material is very different, right?

But, but yeah, people— a lot of people watch.

Yeah. And so the fact that like it was like flipped, like even the fact that like that one scene and like the third, whatever, with Adam in the locker room. Yeah. That broke the internet. I remember hearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's completely different than what anybody's ever seen. Yeah.

And it's just, I, you know, I felt like the first season of that show did such a beautiful job of raw storytelling. It was just like real, like real connective, heartfelt storytelling. Like it really did a great job of telling the stories that are always in people's minds. You know what I mean? So thinking— and that's why, yeah, things that are— people are constantly thinking, like fantasy versus stability, you know, like all of it, all of it. Just having the courage to question your reality. And that was the thing. It's prior to Sex/Life, I was too scared to question my reality, you know, it's like, but then when I got the role of Billie—

oh yeah, tell us what happened. So you go into— yeah, yeah.

So I go into the interview and— or I go into the audition and I have a few friends that were friends with the showrunner creator of the show. And prior to me going in, my friends had texted me and they were like, we told her about you. We told her how much this resonates with your life. Sarah, if you don't get this role, you should consider quitting acting. And I was like, oh my God, no pressure. So I go in and like I said, there were 3 scenes or 4 scenes. The very last scene, and I go in, like, completely as if I'm ready to shoot. Like, that's how prepared I am. And then I go and just let it go and have a great time and see what inspiration hits in the moment and just do that. And there's something that came over me. I don't know what it was, but by the time I got to the fourth scene, or the last scene, I froze. And it was the scene where I have to break down with the moms. We're all walking outside of SoHo. And I passed by, like, a cookie shop, and it used to be the tattoo parlor.

And it was the tattoo parlor where Brad got the B's for the two B's. And I'm like, "What is this? And this used to be a tattoo parlor." And I don't know. Like, I had— It was that breakdown scene. I remember that scene. Yeah. And whatever happened, I don't know. Maybe I was in my head too much. I forgot it. And even I was looking at the pages, like, I couldn't remember the lines. And the producers and the writer, they were like, "That's okay. You can, you know, use your script." And I used my script, and it was almost like I couldn't read. Like, I just completely froze, and it was like I was reading the words for the first time. And I was like, "I don't know what's happening right now, but I don't know how to fake things, and I'm not going to sit here and insult your intelligence with a fake performance. I'm not going to try." So I'm going to leave right now. And I left. And I sat on— the audition was on Larchmont Boulevard, Larchmont and Melrose. I'll never forget, there was a Chipotle and a liquor store on the corner.

I got a bottle of Malagro and like a gigantic Chipotle burrito. And I just sat on the corner. I left my car there. I called myself an Uber to take me home. And I just cried and cried and cried. And, you know, it had been a year since I had worked and I was just like, I guess it's just not for me. Like, I guess I will never make it. 3 days later, my reps call me, my agent manager called me, and they were like, so you're in the mix. And I was like, what? I'm in the mix? What do you mean? I didn't even finish the audition. And they were like, well, there was just something about your energy. They were like, she's Billie. She's got Billie in her. So it was between me and like 3 other girls.

Do you know who else was in?

No, I don't know, and I never ask, and I don't care. And it was between me and 3 others, and they were like, they do want you to go back in and retape. And I was like, fuck yeah, they do. Game on. So I went in. It was so funny. The casting director, she like— because I, you know, because the role was also for a stay-at-home mom, right? So like, my version of a stay-at-home mom, like, this is glammed up for me, right? So it's like, I'm like, stay-at-home mom. And at the time, you know, I have 3 children. My twins were 4 at the time. So it's like every day I woke up, I look like I got hit by a truck, right? Right. So I've got, you know, either dried yogurt stains or last night's art installation on my sweaters or boogers. Like, I'm like, I don't know what this is. So I went in looking like my interpretation of what a stay-at-home mom looks like. I didn't really have my hairbrush. I think I had a ratty ponytail. And I remember the casting director, Denise Chamian, who's amazing and I love her, and she's very— she's got incredible taste.

She like hands me a brush. She was like, sweetheart. And I, and I was like, I love you, but I don't want to because my version of a stay-at-home mom is not this like glossy, like perfect blowout. That's not what a stay-at-home mom is for me. No. You know? And I really wanna honor how I think this woman feels. And she was like, okay, but we're not shooting a fucking documentary. Like, this is Netflix.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we settled on a little light brushing of the hair, but I still— otherwise, I still kept everything the way I wanted it to be. And then, um, yeah, and then I— that was in December. The holidays went by. Then I found out it was between me and one more person. And then in January, I found out that it was me.

Amazing. And then, so did they already have the guy picked? Did they already have Adam picked?

No, I was the first. I was the first person picked. I was the first person hired. And then everybody was sort of built around, around me. Around you.

Because the chemistry was like off the chain. So like— Yeah, clearly. Yeah, clearly. I mean, but that is again why that show hit.

Yes, I do think that, you know—

You can't, you can't like fake that.

No. And it wasn't fake. And— Obviously. Yeah. And no, it was a very beautiful time, I think, in both of our lives. We clearly drew one another to one another. And, you know, the relationship fed us both in incredible ways. And then it was time to go our different paths. You know, it's like sometimes the goose just doesn't lay the golden egg anymore. And there's no table flipping. There's no big drama. It's just recognizing that, you know, we are no longer able to serve each other's highest good. And you have to have the courage to let each other go.

Because it was a while. How long did you guys date for? 5 years? 4 years? Yeah, 5. Yeah, 5 years. Wow. Because like that— so do you guys— are you guys friends now, or what's the—

I'd rather not comment on things like that, on the state of where things are right now. But I do know that, you know, like I said, there is no— nothing but love and gratitude you know, for the time that I was with him. Wow.

So how did they even find him? Was he a big actor? Because I don't know that part. Was he an actor before? I really don't know that part either.

You know, he is Australian, and I know he and the showrunner had done another show together called Unreal. So I know she was familiar with him and his work based on that. But as to, like, why they went with her, I don't know those things.

You didn't really have any involvement in who they picked?

No, I had no involvement. Really? Wow. So, it could have been a disaster. You know what I mean? Like, it could have gone the other way. But no, it didn't. Because don't—

Yeah. Don't they ever do, like, chemistry?

They do, but they didn't with this one with me. Really? Yeah, they didn't with this one. They didn't in the first season. And in the second season, we did do a chem read, but it was— They did not go— They went their own— way with, you know, who they chose for the second season and stuff for my love interest.

Right, right, right. So then basically, why did they bring it back? I mean, the show was so popular.

The show was popular, but I think—

It had its arc in the end, or?

Yeah. You know, it was one of those things where before we even began the second season, they had shortened the order from 6 to 8. Oh. Or from 8 to 6. They had shortened it already. So, I think from the beginning, their plan was always just a 2-season thing. A 2-season fairytale. Wow.

So, basically, okay, so then, was it from the whole experience— By the way, it's like so much of art imitating life with your life. Like, that was—

Yeah, it was a lot. You know, like my— I was not plagued by the what-ifs of the past, you know, the way Billie was. But the ways in which I really resonated with her is I just felt like I wasn't living in my highest truth. I was not living a life that I felt like I was meant to live. Like, I had an appetite for something that was much bigger than what I was playing out, you know? And those are the ways in which we— I really resonated with her. And I just felt like playing her gave me the courage to just question all of those things that I was— I was too scared to question in the past.

Like, when you get people coming to you and asking you a question, like fans, what's the number one question that you get or comment that you get from the— just from the show alone?

Just, "How did you do it?" "How did you have the courage?" You know, because I think there is an interesting phenomenon about courage where people think that courage is doing something without fear. But what I have learned is that that's not the case. You have to carry your fear along with you. You know, it's like, it's silly to say, don't be afraid of making a gigantic change, right? Or not to be afraid, like everyone's fear factor is so different, right? So, but I think that, you know, courage is not the absence of fear, but it's walking alongside it anyway and knowing that it's going to be there. But I'm going to do this thing anyway because my vision of the future is so delicious. It's pulling me into that. I cannot stay in this anymore. You know, I think for me sometimes, you know, and I'm a recovering people pleaser, very open about that. And like, I will stay in a situation that's not right for me because it's easier to stay than to leave. And it's easier to assume the burdens of whatever's going on wrong. Like, I've always, you know, like, I'm a Capricorn, I'm a middle child.

I'm used to— I grew up in a women's shelter for part of my childhood. Like, I'm used to putting a lot on my shoulders and going, no, no, no, no, I'll take it from you. I'm strong enough. I can do this. But then what I started realizing was over time I was collapsing and I had nothing for myself anymore, and I was constantly coming last. And so that's what I'm getting better at, is realizing too that it's like I have to— it's the moment where staying is harder than leaving.

Mm-hmm. You know, totally. So is that what happened with you?

I think that's what happened with me.

Like, now knowing what you know. Yeah. Did it play out better or worse than you could expect?

It always plays out better. Always. I mean, it doesn't feel like that in the moment.

Never. It always feels like it's worse.

It always— it, it, you know, it's like You know, I, I'm, I'm also somebody who believes in not having any regrets. Mm-hmm. So like, you know, and I talk about that in the book too, regrets are for sissies. Like, so I would much rather jump and ask for forgiveness later. Mm-hmm. Than be on my deathbed and look back and be like, I wonder what would've happened. Mm-hmm. If I had just taken that chance. Yes. You know? So it's like, I make a lot of decisions like that. Yeah. Sometimes the decisions. Turn out well, sometimes they don't. But even in the moments when they don't, it's still a lesson I needed to learn. Yeah. For my highest growth. So even that I can't regret, you know. So, but yeah, but it was, um, I talk about that a lot.

I always say rejection is always better than regret because rejection you eventually get over, right? Yeah. But regret will live with you forever. Yeah.

I, I don't like living in the unknown in that sense, especially when you have something that's just like nagging you. Like it's like an itch that you got to scratch.

It's like, just fucking scratch it. Yeah, exactly.

What's the worst that can happen? You get rejected. You say— they say no, you didn't get the position. You didn't go. Okay, fine.

Right. And then you move on. Exactly. And then you kind of like—

then you move on. Then another door opens. But you honored that part of yourself. Absolutely.

And so you've made a lot of pivots because you just said yourself, you were like, Did you always think that you were going to be an actress? You're living in Texas, right? You grew up in Texas. You're like a Dallas cheerleader. The fact that you were a cheerleader. Yeah. I read something or I saw or heard something. It could have been a podcast I was listening to that Robert Altman, who is like a really well-known—

Yes. He has since passed, but he was essentially the godfather of film. Everybody from Scorsese to Spielberg to— Massive. They all cite him as one of the biggest cinematic—

Did he help you get your foot in the door?

He did. So yes, I'd always wanted to be an actress. Didn't really know how to go about it living in Texas. You know, it's like roller skating on the moon sounded more likely than landing a yogurt commercial.

And was this when you were young, like before Dallas Cowboys or like before? No, I was a Dallas Cowboy. I know, I said, but did you want to be an actress before all that?

Like, yeah, when you were a kid, I was a child, you know. I was either gonna be an actress or like a neurosurgeon. Yeah. I was like one or the other. Yeah. Very closely related fields. And so I, but I was, I was also in musical theater and I just felt this thing like being on stage felt so calming to me and like it, it served my nervous system so well. I felt like I was free falling. I was just always so comfortable up there. And then I was at Southern Methodist University and I was in a musical production of Soap Dish. And one of the background dancers, like, I think I was talking about being an actress or something. One of the background dancers was like, oh, why don't you try out for the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders? Because back in 1995, they were on SNL. And I was like, oh, that's it. That's my way in. I'll try out. So I drove to Texas Stadium one day. Like, I didn't think to, like, look it up online. Like, I didn't think to do any of those things. I just drove there. And sure enough, they had auditions were like in 3 weeks.

And I mean, it was just the perfect, like, the kismet, right? Like divine, divine, divine. So I signed up.

Were you a good dancer? Did you know how to do any of this stuff?

I had never— I was always an athlete in school. Yeah. I was a runner, I was a basketball player, and I had never danced, but I could dance. Like, I had taken dance as like a kid, but like, I was just always able to move. I'll just put it like that. Yeah. Like, even though I was not a steady dancer, it was always in me.

Right. You could pick up, you know, choreography.

Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, it was always like anything artsy just always came to me, you know? And so don't ask me to start a fire or like, I won't do anything, you know, that requires that side of the brain because I'm— I was just destined to be in art somehow. But yeah, like, I can listen when you cry or making you a great playlist, but, you know, learning how to detoxify, like, water. I can't do that.

Not for you.

Yes, you can't do that.

Um, but, um, I won't ask you, don't worry. Yeah, yeah.

So then, yeah, so I, I tried out. There were like over 500 girls that tried out, and they only pick 27, 28 or 27. Those girls, we go to— there's a training camp. You go to training camp, and then from training camp, they make another few cuts as well. So I was one of the lucky ones who—

It's hard to get on there, by the way, from what I understand.

Oh, they make Hollywood look like child's playing in the sandbox.

Do you know that there's actually a Netflix show about how hard it is to get on?

Oh, I know that.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I bet you know that.

Yeah. No, it's very much like that. It's very rigorous. It's very competitive. And yeah, it's challenging. I have a lot of respect for those girls who go through it because you really have to do it out of love because you don't get paid anything. Yeah. You know, so no, I have a lot of respect for them and what they go through. So then, uh, but you went through it. You went through it. I made the team, and Robert Altman came to Texas to film a movie called Dr. T and the Women that, like, Liv Tyler, Kate Hudson, Richard Gere, Farrah Fawcett, they were all on. And in the movie, Kate Hudson and Liv Tyler were cheerleaders. So he used our rehearsal facilities, and we were all, like, background performers. In the scenes where the girls were cheerleaders. I don't know why this turned out the way it did. Again, divine. I didn't know who Robert Altman was, right? Like, I was 19. Like, I did not know about cinema the way I know about it now. And so— but for whatever reason, he really took a big liking to me. And he invited me— like, I had my own chair next to him at video village where the monitors are set up and the director and writer and everything, they watch what's happening.

They watch the cameras. I had my own chair next to him every day for 2 weeks. Like, they'd be like, Sarah, your chair's next to Bobby. Like, we buddied up. I couldn't believe it. Like, 19-year-old me and this, like, 70-year-old man were like this, kindred spirits for the 2 weeks he was there. And we would talk about everything but acting. Like, he was so interested in my path at school. He was so interested about— my life, like, you know, my mom, you know, I'm of, you know, Persian descent. So he had so many questions about that and what growing up in Texas was like. And he had a nephew at MIT and we were talking about his nephew. And finally it was like his fourth or fifth to last day there. He was like, what is it you wanna do? I said, well, I wanna be an actress. I just don't know how to do it out here. And he goes, you know, I think you have something. I think you have what it takes. I'm gonna give you my office number. And my cell number, and I want you to give me a call if you ever move out to LA.

I think you have something. So I went home that night. I Googled him again. I'm like, I don't know who this guy is. And I saw all the movies he had directed. And I remember I, like, yelled to my mom in the kitchen. I was like, Ma, the guy who directed Popeye is telling me I got a shot. So that was it. I packed up my cherry red pickup truck. Moved out to LA and never looked back. Wow.

So what did he do? What was the door? Like the kind of the opening?

So what's interesting is he was actually still in— he was still in Texas filming. Yeah. So we were playing phone tag for about 3 months. Okay. Where we like could not actually connect. But within my first 2, 3 days here, I found an acting class. I enrolled in the acting class because again, I had never acted a day in my life. I did not go to school for it. I was an English major at SMU, English and journalism. And I, so I got into this acting class and the teacher of the class was like, I wanna set you up with a manager. So I go in to this manager's office and he would, he told me, he was like, all right, what are your credits? I'm like, I don't know. I was like the tree in a second grade play. Like, I don't have credits. And he was like, okay, go prepare two monologs, one serious, one comedic. Come back and do it for me. I'm like, what's a monolog? He was like, go to the store on Sunset Boulevard. It's called Samuel French. They'll help you out. I was like, all right. So I go get my little monologs prepared, go back, I perform it for him, he takes me on as a client, I start auditioning immediately.

In every room I go to, you know, I was so green, and people would be like, how long have you been acting? Because I didn't even know to memorize shit. Like, I was awful, awful. And they, like, I just wasn't prepared. Like, I didn't know what to do, right? And they were like, how long have you been acting? And I'd be like, like 10 minutes ago? I don't know, like since Tuesday. And they're like, how did you come to act? And I'm like, do you know Robert Altman? And their jaws would hit the ground, right? Yeah. And they— and then so little by little, the casting directors would tell me to get my education on him. They're like, go watch this movie, go watch that movie, learn about who he is. Like, you can't name-drop Robert Altman and not know who he is. I'm I was like, okay. So I started watching his stuff. And then this is the sad part. About 4 months later, we would, you know, again, we were playing phone tag prior to that. The next month that he called me back, and it was always his assistant being like, Sarah, we've got Bobby for you.

You know, please call us at your earliest convenience. I was too scared to call him back 'cause I was so intimidated. Right. There was this man that I once conversed with so freely, but you know, ignorance is bliss. Once I was aware of his power and his gravity, I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to say to him. Like, what is he doing talking to me? I'm nobody. So I was too scared to call him back. And then about 3 or 4 months after that, I found out he died. He had passed. So he was just my— he was meant to be just like my acting catalyst. It's a catalyst. Yeah. He was my catalyst that gave me the push that I needed to be here.

Because he said— just because he said to you, you have what it takes, you should— you have something. And yeah, it was like that, that, that was just enough.

That was enough for me to go home and research who he was and jump.

That's amazing. But he never actually gave you a role in a movie or like opened a door and said, hey, or like in the sense that like give this woman or girl a role. It was just that, like, that belief in you was enough. Yeah. It's amazing.

Yeah. Yeah, it was really cool.

That is really cool. Yeah. So then, okay, so like talk about this book. So then it's called Life is Lifee. Yeah. And what, what prompted it? Like, were you— what kind of made you think, okay, now is the time to write a book?

Yeah. So when I was getting my divorce, it was over COVID, and I thought I was gonna write like a divorce manifesto or like a how-to divorce. You know, there's so many emotions that I was experiencing from like, what do you do with the pictures on the wall? Like, where does the ring go? Like, how do you, you know, like what happens if I find his shirt? You know what I mean? Like there were just so many things that I was going through that I didn't know what to do with or how to process or who to turn to. 'Cause I was the first person of my friends to get a divorce.

Really? Are they all now getting divorces?

Uh, not all of them, but like a few of them did. Yeah, a few of them did. And so I thought I was gonna write like a how-to divorce book and like what to do with the emotions as they come up. What do you do with the love? You know, cuz the love just doesn't disappear. Where does the love go that you still feel for the other person? You know? And then sex life, and then the world kind of opened back up. This was all during COVID and I was writing, writing, writing, writing. Then sex life. Started later that year. I went back to work. I shelved that for a while. And then in 2023, the actors' strike hit. And I wrote an article for Glamor magazine called "Why Desire Is Not a Dirty Word." And it went viral. And there were so many women that flocked to that article that thanked me for writing it that I was like, I wonder— like, that gave me the confidence to be like, I think I might have a voice that people will listen to, like, as a writer. So I started working on the proposal, and what I wanted it to feel like was like your favorite girl group chat.

So like the girl group chat where you talk about— where you bitch about your partner, you bitch about the kids, you bitch about like hormonal things and progesterone and changes in your body. You talk about fucking Blowjobs. You talk about like, you know, dating. Like, I wanted it to feel very expansive and I just wanted it to feel like a permission slip for anybody who wants like a second act that's better than the first.

And that's a good way of saying it. Yeah.

And so I was like, this is the, you know, it's the book for, you know, like what happens when you get the partner and the, or the marriage and you have the kids and you have the job. But there's— but you're not happy, right? And so, I mean, it speaks to a wide range of people, like the amount of 20-year-olds or like mothers who buy this book for their daughters, you know, who are in college or lost, or they're listening to other people's opinions and they lose their sense of self. Like, I get tons of those too. So it's not just for people who like have the dream, so to speak, and are not happy. But I just wanted it to hit a wide range of topics. And again, because I was put on such a platform with Sex/Life, I wanted all my wisdom, like, I refuse to believe that my pain is ever in vain. You know, it's like if I went through something, it was for a damn reason. And I'm going to use my experience to help somebody else. May not necessarily mean that my wisdom is for them, but if I can inspire them to make a choice that feels more authentic to who they are, then I have purpose.

Then that's my purpose. You know, it's like at the end of the day, we're all here just to walk each other home. I am no separate from you. I am no separate from you. I'm no separate from anybody, my ex-husband, my ex-partners, like my children, like anybody I come into contact with. We are all here for the purpose of this oneness, this togetherness, and we all go to the same place in the end. Yeah, we do. So it's like I just have really found such a very gratifying sense of purpose in inspiring people to be their most authentic selves. Yeah. And, and, and you'll see in the book, like the way the book is even formatted, it's like an encyclopedia. It's an encyclopedia of life. It's, you know, each chapter, each alphabet has two chapters: adulting, aging, blowjobs, boundaries. And for me, I feel like advice is not a one-size-fits-all. So at the end of each chapter, there's a turn, turn the mirror back on you section where I encourage the reader, like I take them through a series of really reflective questions so they can find their truth. Because I feel like in this age where You know, Postmates tells us what to watch next.

All the algorithms tell us what to order next, or sorry, Postmates tell us what to eat next. All the, all the streaming services tell us what to watch next. Raya tells us who to talk to next. It's like we've lost the ability to really like quiet the peanut gallery and to just check in with ourselves and to see what we need. And like, I believe that the smartest person in the room is you. And we just have to cultivate that relationship a little bit more. So the questions at the end of each chapter are also designed to just quiet the monkey mind and to just get really, really, really focused on what you want, you know? And along the way, it's, you know, funny stories, sad stories. Yeah.

What has been like the most difficult thing about going through all of this stuff in public, right? Like, that's the really hard thing. You said yourself, like, you're a public figure. Husband? Like, I mean, it's like people are asking you questions, you know? Yeah.

The thing that I've learned, and I've built up a healthy relationship with it all, you know, there's that great Dr. Seuss quote, "Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter." There was a— I like that. There was a period of time where I had to turn off my comments because people really like to talk out of the fucking sides of their mouths. People without enough to do, they really love to interject their opinion on something. Totally. When they have no idea what's going on, they don't know the backstory. You know, they just see something online or on Instagram. And like I said, they just are so fucking bored with their own lives. They just want to tell you how to live yours. So I— there was a— I had to develop some thick skin You know, so there was a period of time where I really had to sort of disconnect from all of that stuff and again, come to that belief, you know, that you do not matter to me. I do not care what you think. I know who I am. You know, the person who lays her head down at night and looks at herself in the mirror, I'm really proud of who she is.

Your useless opinion means nothing to me. So yeah, so I, I have found a healthy disassociation with it. But like most people, I have human moments, you know, where I start to get a little vulnerable. I have to say, with the breakup I experienced last year, there was a lot of fodder that came my way regarding that too. And I'm— I don't know if it did or not with him, but I actually was very touched by it all. Oh, which was an interesting perspective to take because I was like, wow, this is so— even though it was like reliving the experience twice, you know, once I was personally in the moment in the relationship as it's happening. And the news of it broke a little while long, a few weeks after. And it was like everywhere I turned there was another comment, there was another picture, there was another article. And I was like, wow, this is actually very touching that this relationship meant so much to people that they were affected by the ending of it. Yeah. And like, that's actually very sweet. So I was touched by it.

That's a good— that's a really good perspective. I think it represented so much to people because of how they see themselves in that situation.

Yeah. Yeah. I know the show really hit people in a very beautiful, vulnerable way. You know, it's like our love was very touching and represented a lot of hope for people. And it was— Or they wish they had that. Yeah, it was wish fulfillment, right? And— And so that's why, too, it's like when it ended and the comments that came in and the amount of attention that I got, I was like, oh, wow, like, how flattering that my love that I had for this person or the love that we shared, you know, was felt on like this global level.

Like, that's really cool. When did you guys end the relationship? A year ago, you said? Yeah, a year. Are you dating anybody now? Yeah.

Dating's an interesting thing. Yes, it is an interesting thing. I am on Raya. I will say that.

You are? Do you like it? No. Because I haven't heard one person say they like it.

No, I don't like it. I don't like it. And I'm actually on it less and less and less and less. It just feels so superficial. It just feels really superficial. And, you know, I think I have to be in a very surface type of mood. Right. To be on the app and enjoy being on the app. But for the most part, I'm somebody who enjoy— like, I'm not built for shallow connections. I'm not built for one-night stands. I'm not built for casual, you know, that it's not fulfilling like the sacred, soulful part of myself in any way. Right, right, right. So it's like, so I don't know how much longer I'll be on there, but yeah, it—

Have you gone on any dates from there? I won't talk about that. Oh, you won't talk about that? Okay. I won't talk about that because I bet you get like, I can't even imagine, you must be inundated. Inundated.

You know, I'm sure there are people who are, who have a, a more full inbox than I do, but like there's a lot of founders, there's a lot of snowboarders, there's a lot of like actors. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah, I'm so done with actors, by the way. Yeah.

I was gonna say, are you ever gonna date an actor again?

Uh-uh. I will never. No, you know what it is, is it's like actors are so fucking showy. They are so showy with their energy, with like their charm. And look, I have fallen prey to a lot of them. So it's not, it's not to say it doesn't work, but I also know that as an actor and, and using my time off to essentially build another career for myself, I know the majority of actors don't do that. So it's like they're waiting by the phone, you know, they can be quite lazy. And there's just no bigger turnoff for me than laziness. Totally agree. I don't like it. Like, if all you do is wait for the phone to ring and work out, like, that's all you do. Yeah. You are so not for me. Like, you got to be out. Go build a fucking house. Yeah.

Go fucking go do something with that time off.

Like, right. So it's like I'm just like, and again, there is no judgment here because I know I'm gonna say this and then someone is going to turn it into like, you know, me dissing somebody. I'm not, I'm not judging anybody. I just know for— yeah, for you, I am not going to be with somebody who was like just an actor. Like, you have to have something else going on. Totally. Like, life is too fun, life is too inspirational to just sit around and not do anything and just wait for the phone to ring. Like, I— or, or go for go for hikes all day long. Like, I fucking can't.

Yeah, how can you go for hikes all day anyway? I mean, people can't, I guess. Just, it's—

you'd be surprised.

Well, that's LA though. I think that LA is like very much a pseudo reality.

That is, yeah. But this is where I live, so that's what I know, you know? Exactly. Um, but yeah, how about some founders?

Would you go out with some founders?

Would you go out on what they find? Yeah, the majority of them have found fucking shit, or they're like They say they're a founder, but like they've founded not much, basically, you know? So it's like, sure, I love a good entrepreneur. Yeah. You know, it's like I definitely see myself in that space. You know, I would— you know what I would love? I would love to find somebody that— because I'm big into mental health. Yeah, I'm big into mental health. I'm big into like mental wellness and wanting to help people. I would love to find somebody who is equally attracted to that and like I could build either a wellness center with or a mental health podcast with. Like, I would love, like, to go into business with my partner, like somebody who is equally passionate about that and get, like, the guy's perspective, the female perspective, you know, I would, I would love that. I would love that for me.

Yeah.

So, you know, you're putting it out first.

Well, you've come to the right place because this is like the world I'm in is very much about the wellness, health, entrepreneurial space. Oh, really? I didn't know that. That's literally like every word you just said is literally my world. Well, you heard it here first, folks. I was gonna say like, exactly. You just put it, you couldn't have put it out to a more appropriate platform. Oh, incredible. Yeah. So like you don't have a podcast yet, but you, you're, you would potentially do a podcast? Yeah, I would.

I would, I would, I would do a podcast. I would build like a wellness center or like a retreat or, you know, I've been, I've spoken at Canyon Ranch.

Yeah. I was gonna say before you could do all that stuff.

Yeah, like I would love to find, like, these things really inspire me. Like, I've, I have found this space so interesting and I'm such a natural student of it all that, you know, to find somebody who felt that way and we could build something together is just very attractive to me.

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Like, I mean, yes, you love or you're very interested in mental health and mental wellness, but what do you do to make your mental health A priority.

Yeah. Every day can look a little different depending on where I'm at and what I need. You know, it's like I do have healers that I work with, but I'm on kind of a detox from all that stuff right now. Nature's a big thing for me. I'm outside every day doing something, whether it's going for walks, runs, connecting with trees, looking up at the sky. Like, nature is just such a grounding thing for me. That I have to be a part of it somehow. I have to be in the, in the arms of Mother Nature in some respect. The other thing that I love is I love frequency music. Like every night. No. So it's like there's different hertz, like 444, 580. There's just different hertz of frequency music. And sometimes I'll fall asleep to it. Other times I might close my eyes and meditate to it. You know, other times meditation for me, I try to meditate every day. You know, some days I may not be able to just depending on what the needs of the kids are and my life looks like. But at least for about 15 minutes a day, whether it happens at morning or at night, sometimes it's just complete silence where I don't need any sort of stimulation and I'm just quiet and I just let the thoughts come up and I tell myself that you know, like I am whole, like I don't need any sort of outside validation, like I am safe, like all of those things.

I am love. Everything that I need, am, it's already in me. It's not out there. Just let the thoughts come and go. Other times, if it's something I want to create for myself, then it's getting on the frequency of that creation. And then other times it could be something guided. And I also dance a lot. You do? Yeah. I believe that, you know, energy is just, or emotions are energy in motion. Okay. And when an emotion, when you're feeling sad or you're feeling stuck or grief or whatever, it's just emotion that's stuck in the body. So dancing, running, any sort of movement, stretching. I will put my music on so loud in the house and I will dance until I smile. And that's really what it's become about is it's like, I talk about this in the book, I have a chapter called Follow Your Happy, which it's like when you don't know what to do or you're trying to reach for a better feeling emotion, it's kind of impossible to go from grief to external joy, right? So just reach for the next thing that feels just a tiny bit better. And you do that by following your happy.

What makes you the tiniest bit happier in this next moment? Is it to dance? Is it to go for a drive? Is it to go get your nails done? Is it to have the extra cookie? Is it to call a friend? Is it to cancel on a friend? Is it to put on a funny show? Like, what is it that can elevate you just a tiny bit? And in terms of our emotions, an emotion is only as big of a deal as we allow it to be. Something like joy is no more or less important than something like anger or grief or sadness. You know, it's like things are only as heavy as you make it. So whenever I'm experiencing an emotion that's not something I want to feel or feels contrasting, I don't ignore it and I don't push it away because I've learned that that only makes things come back tenfold. You can't sweep it under the rug, and the only way out is in. So it's like I really give myself that chance to sit with it and see what it's trying to tell me. Like, what is this pain trying to teach me right now about myself?

Is it my self-worth that's being questioned? I feel like I'm not good enough. Because, you know, someone didn't call me back or I didn't get the opportunity that I wanted or whatever it was like, is it self-worth? Is it love? Is it abandonment issues from childhood? You know, so it's like I really sit with it. I try to figure out what it's there to teach me. And then I just kind of become the observer of the thought and tell myself a different story. I create a different narrative within myself.

Right. You reframe what it is.

I reframe what it is. I'll give you a great example. Whenever my ex and I broke up last year, you know, I think this interesting thing happens when you break up with a part or when a relationship ends where you start to romanticize the person, right? It's like everything, it's like you get amnesia and the last however many years just kind of you forget and the person has, you know, has a halo over their heads when in actuality you didn't get there overnight, right? The signs were there for a while. It's like a downward slope. You're going, on until finally you reach the bottom. But I found myself romanticizing. I found myself really missing. And I was like, and I would have to snap myself out of it. So what I did is I changed the narrative. Instead of it being about the relationship and about him, I made it about me. And anytime I'd have those thoughts, I'd go, wow, look at the depths of my heart. Look at how big my love is. Look at how courageous I am in love. Like, my heart, my love makes me feel like I have wings.

It makes me feel like I can fly. And that would make me cry because I'd be like, oh my God, heart, like, you've taken care of me so many times and you've allowed me to feel such incredible things. And like, what greater privilege is it to have an organ that each time it breaks, it puts itself back together only to be stronger than it was before? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I would turn the narrative around, and that helped me so much.

So how can you tell?

And I talk about all of this in the book.

I was going to say, well, I like—

all of this is in the book.

The book is a— it's kind of like a combo between a memoir. Yeah. And self-help. Yeah. And personal development. Yeah. And, and personal stories. It's like a mixture of all of them. Yeah. And but what you just said, like, these are things that, you know, a lot of people are like struggle with doing, right? Like what you just did right there and how like you, you took, took the reality, took the situation and reversed it. How did you learn to do that? Joe Dispenza. Oh, so someone kind of—

and I talk about it in here too. I talk about Joe Dispenza. I love Joe Dispenza, Abraham Hicks. You know, we were talking about my friend Oliver, the spiritual activator. I have this woman named Shannon Quinn that is a manifesting coach that I've studied with for a while. I also talk about her in there. Like, I'm very upfront about— I don't, I don't, I don't like to covet my secrets or whatever. You know, it's like, no, I want to put the people that have helped me and the things that I've learned— like, I am here to share, you know? So So I talk about it all in there too. Yeah, the char. I talk about all of it.

What I like about that also is nobody gets anywhere without the help of others, right? Who are experts. 100%. It's impossible to just one day wake up.

We are not here to live as an island unto ourselves. We're human beings. We are souls having this human experience connecting to one another. Right. Even like my acting coach, I have an acting coach, Dino. I adore him. You know what I mean? I am so upfront about all the teachers and the people who have helped me pave my path because it's like I would want somebody to share with me 100%.

And you're seeking out people who are really good in that one area to help you move your needle, or they really resonate with me, right?

You know what I mean? It's like they may not be for everybody, and that's fine, but you never know until you try.

You never know until— that's your whole motto, right? Like, you never know unless you try, right? What's the worst that could happen? You don't like them. Great. Then go to someone else. No, 100%. So, like, you've learned so much from this one breakup. It sounds like you've had to do a lot of healing.

I've learned a lot from both. You know, it's like I got my PhD in pain from my divorce. Yeah. You know, I felt like, you know, it's like I just remember looking at the pieces of my life were shattered on the floor, and I'm like, how the hell do I put this back together? Like seeing, you know, his wet signature on the divorce papers. It's like somebody dropped a piano on my toe. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, again, even though this was the best thing for both people involved, for the children, it was the right thing, right? It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell.

Well, you were together for how many years? 18, 20 years? That's a long time.

Yeah, we grew up together with children. That's a big part of it. And what a privilege. You know, it's like it's not a failure. To be with somebody for that long of a time, you know, to create children.

What a success that is. So I never understood why people see the fact that if a marriage breaks up over a long period of time, that isn't a failure. That's a, that's a win.

I think it's because we, you know, again, I feel like it's because we've really bought into this idea that there's one person for the rest of our lives, you know, and it's become such a societal construct that we have all bought into. And look, I did too, you know, and, and I, and I would still love to find somebody that I could be with that one person for the rest of my, our lives. And we could, you know, die and be buried on top of each other and come back as ghosts and haunt people in the next lifetime. Like I have a very deep and loyal definition of how I love. And, and, and you know, when you get married, you're not planning your divorce, right?

You think you're gonna be with somebody forever. Right, right, right.

And there's something very beautiful in that. But at the same time, I feel like when it's time to call it quits, a lot of times we are afraid to because we are connected to this one story when that story may not be the best for us.

No, exactly. It's that disconnection is very difficult, right? And so it's hard.

And I, you know, tell people who are questioning that time in their lives and, you know, to just be— give yourself grace. Give yourself grace. You give yourself grace, you trust, you show up authentically. That's another big thing. It's like in order to get to where you're meant to go, you have to show up authentically. Yeah. You can't, you can't show up as a version of yourself that's not true. You can't pretend. And even though you might lose people along the way, even though it's going to be hard, even though it takes practice and it's scary to go against what you've always done, that's the only way you're going to get to live out your truth.

Yes, I totally agree with you. Like, do you— what's like, what's like you're like, in the next— now we're not going to— I know it's all about being in the moment with you and being authentic, but like, if you could foreshadow the next couple of years of your life, what would it be like? Do you want to be in a relationship again? I would love to.

I would love to be in a relationship again. I definitely, you know, I've learned so much about myself in this last little over a year now of being really single and what it means to sit with myself. Like, I know how I move. I know what my nervous system feels like. I know my warm I know my, I know my soft and I know my fire, right? Like, I know there are parts of myself in the past that I subdued because of my relationships in the past. And now getting this year to really explore what my femininity looks like, you know, how I operate in the world. I'm not going to do that again. I'm not going to dim my flame because it makes someone else uncomfortable. It doesn't mean I'm going to go and like, like, you know, fuck everybody. That's not what I'm getting at here. I'm just saying there are, there were natural parts of my, of how I operate in the world, of how I burned, of how, you know, my fire would show up, my spark would show up that made relationships in the past uncomfortable. And so in order to keep them safe, I pulled back.

Mm-hmm. Not, yeah. And so it's like, I'm not willing to do that anymore cuz now I've had over a year of practicing of what it feels like and it feels really great to be me.

Did it feel strange, though, to be single when you haven't been single for your whole— you know what I mean? For so, so long.

I mean, I was chasing anything with a dick when it first happened. Really?

None of it worked out. None of it worked out, right?

None of it worked out. And there was a reason why. And now looking back, I'm like, oh my God, I am so happy none of that worked out. I am so happy all of those people ghosted me. Like, I didn't even get a chance to, like, go out on dates for the longest time. Like, I've had 2 dates in over a year. Isn't that crazy?

Like, looking at you, I would never think that. Well, but you hear it. Thanks for saying that. No, well, I'm sure anybody listening to this is gonna be like, thanks for saying that.

But you know, it's just a combo, right? Of like, you know, I'm a hard sell to begin with, right? What? Like, yeah, like I don't like a lot of people.

Okay. That's just, but then that they're a hard sell. You're not a hard sell.

Okay. So they're a hard sell.

Yeah. They're a hard sell.

You're not a hard sell. It's hard to break me down and, and, and it's, it's hard to get my interest.

Yes. Okay. That's fair. Because I'm not, I'm not physically motivated. Yeah. I understand that.

There has to be like, yes, of course I, the physical, for me, there has to be an attraction. Of course. But like, I am more mentally stimulated. So if, if those two things are not present, I am just not here for a coffee date. 100%. Like, I don't care. It's a waste of my time. Yeah. I'd rather be alone. I'd rather read. I'd rather do a Joe Dispenza meditation or go sit in a sound bath or a sauna. Like I just don't care. I'll hang at home with my kids. Like, I don't give a fuck. So I'm not one of those that's like, oh, try it out, see what happens. Nah, nah, I agree. So, so yeah. And, but yeah, I would love to continue to build like my brand in this space, which is a new space for me. You know, the acting and, you know, Paradise Season 2 is coming out. We're about to start our Season 3. I have a couple other projects that I've written. That are in development. Oh yeah? Yeah. So I'd love those to start up. I founded a production company called The School for Women, which I'm very excited about.

And all my projects that I do there, like Life is Lifey, I'm actually looking to option that into a series right now. I have another story called The Texas Tornado that Warner Brothers is interested. We'll see. We're in the process of making the deal. It's all about the first ever female lawyer in Texas in the 1960s. And, uh, she was very radical in what she did anyway. But yeah, so there's, those will all be produced under the School of Women, the School for Women. And that's the, the basis of that company is again, it's meant to inspire, uplift, like every project, the motivating inspirational force behind it will be encouraging women to be their most authentic selves.

I love that you say that also.

And yes, sorry, one more thing. And I am looking for somebody. Okay. I am looking for somebody. I'm gonna put that out there. I want somebody like, I'm not looking for anything serious right now. Like, I don't know if I should talk to a camera.

Yeah, go talk right there.

I don't want anything serious right now because I'm busy and I don't want something that's like a daily thing. But I would love to meet somebody that has the potential and it can grow into something like long term. But, you know, for now, just have like really hot vacations and, you know, the occasional dates when we have time. And well, do you like younger, older?

Like, what do you like? What's your type? I mean, we know what Adam looks like. You know, you haven't said his name, so I don't know if I'm even allowed to say his name because you say my ex. But is that your physical type or just so happened you had a lot of chemistry? But what is your type? Like, if you can kind of pick somebody besides the fact you don't want them to be lazy, you want them to have— Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A lot going. Yeah.

You want them to like, you know, have like other shit going on. You don't want them to be an actor.

I think if you line up the people I've been connected to, you'd see there are like, there are some similarities. You know, it's like I want somebody who takes care of themselves, who looks a certain way, because these are things that I do as well, right? 100%. So yeah, I'm 5'4", but like, I'm little, I'm fun size, but my energy is very big. Yeah.

So, um, you know, is that, is that, is that— have you found that to be a hindrance or a benefit when you date people?

I don't know. I haven't thought about it one way or another. It's all worked out in the end.

It's all worked out. But what I'm saying is we are living in a world where you said yourself, like, people want to shrink people to make themselves feel better. Yeah. And when you have a big personality. Yes.

So I guess what happens, and I'm sure a lot of women can resonate with this, or even men, yeah, possibly, is that when you first meet somebody, you're so attracted to that spark that they have. And then over time, when you want to own them, when you want to, you know, settle down into a more domestic style, those things that you loved make you feel insecure and you don't like that anymore, you know? So it's like, but it's just a means to control is all it is. It's a way to control. It's an insecurity. And, you know, it's like I'm somebody who done a lot of work on myself. I'm not insecure. I mean, sure, I'm not going to say I'm not insecure because that's not true. I am positive there will be moments that I will be triggered, but I know if I'm triggered with insecurity, that's something on my side of the street to clean up. That has nothing to do with them. So I will never put that on a partner. That's for me to look at, right? So yeah, like, I'm just not— I, I don't— I— and I want my partner to feel the same.

Right. So I was talking more the opposite, right? Like how how these guys— like, you're talking about guys, right? We're talking about dating people who are successful, obviously, who have, like, the pedigree. Let's just say on paper, that would be the kind of person you want to date. A lot of times, I've noticed those guys want a very specific type of girl who's much more demure and, like, you know, like, that type of—

like, I don't know. I mean, I don't like— that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I can be demure. Like, I have, you know, as women, we all are so multifaceted and we all have whatever. I'm definitely, you know, in a, in a crowd of people, I'm not the one that's the loudest. I will tell you that. Like, I prefer, like, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, like, all my friends who know me and even my, you know, past partners and whatever, I am a loner who loves people.

Yes. That's how I would describe myself too.

Yeah. I am a loner. I love intimate things. I don't love being the center of attention. Right. It's different if I'm working or if I'm in front of a camera, it's very different. But other than that, I can go out and not even say a word to anybody and feel very fulfilled. Yeah. So I'm not like showy in that sense. But at the same time, when that Aries rising gets ignited, like, I love that.

I'm going to stop it. No, I don't know. I love it. You're actually a breath of fresh air in the space of entertainment. Like, I will say for women, no, like, who are actresses, I'm like, you know, like, you seem very chill and like down to earth and not very self. Thanks for saying that. No, it's true.

I mean, like, because I think a lot of that came from my upbringing too. Like, I had a dad who held a gun in my head when I was 6. You know, I talk about all this in the book. My mom and I were in and out of women's shelters. You know, it's like we grew up middle to low class. Everything I've ever earned in life I have had to work for. You know, my life has not been a basket— or it has— it has not been a walk in the park. No. You know, so it's like I've been through a lot of shit. Like, I feel like I've already led 9 lives, you know. I had home births with my children. You know, I had twins. Like, my son was born breech. Like, I don't know. It's like, like, not that that's like a bad thing or anything. I'm just saying, like, I have— You've lived. I've lived. I have— I've been to battle, you know what I mean? And so it's like, and I've come out on the other side realizing that none of this is important. Yeah. None of this is important.

If you stripped all of this away, who are you? You know, and I've gotten to a place in my life where it's like, I really, I like who I am. You know, the process of the book, like acting, all of that stuff, it could go away tomorrow. Like nothing in here would change. You know, it doesn't define me. It doesn't.

That's what I think. You're not just an actress. You are all these, a mom, this, all that. Like, I think that you do have like a whole I think you have a career in all of this mental health, you know. I hope so.

You know, and I also just believe too, like as women, you know, it's like we are, we're, we're the Madonna and the whore.

Yeah. Right.

It's 100% true. We're the saint and the sinner. Like I refuse to believe that after kids we, we can't embrace our femininity in the way that we used to pre-kids. Mm-hmm. Like I feel hornier than ever these days. Right.

Good for you. You know what I mean?

It's like I am more, I listen to my body more. I'm more in tune with my body more. I know how, like, how I like to move and I know what gets me going. Like, I just, I, yeah, that's the thing is I've really come to accept who we are while being wives and mothers and all those other things. Totally. Life only gets better if you choose that.

It's a decision, basically. It is. It's a decision. Yeah. So then end with this then. What other stuff do you do daily? Okay, we know you meditate. We know that you, uh, meditate. You like to dance? It's a great one.

That's a great one. Yeah, I literally, I have a Bronco. I put my top down every fucking day. I blast my music. I let my hair go wild and I feel free. And for me, there's something about that that is so like freeing and calming to my nervous system. So the thing is, it's like, you know, being a mom, being an actress, being in this job field, whatever, navigating dating, all that other bullshit. It's like your nervous system can get pretty activated. I also have 3 dogs. They fight, like, whatever. So it's like, I, I look, I, when I, I look for those moments where I can downgrade, you know, and they come in a lot of different forms. Even if it's going to a coffee shop for an hour before school pickup and putting in my AirPods and listening to a Joe Dispenza talk about how to regulate your nervous system. Like, I, like, I have all these, you know, spiritual teachers of whom I listen to their videos when I feel inspired to. The frequency music is a big thing.

That's a great one. I haven't heard, like, is that similar also to like brown, you know, brown music, white music? Oh, like the white noise? Yeah.

Brown noise, white noise, or no? Yes. I mean, I know what that is, and that feels like— I don't know if it's the same thing or not. I don't know if it's the same thing. But if you look up— there's an app called Brainwaves. You can also look it up on YouTube. But you put in frequency music, and certain frequencies are supposed to help encourage certain things within your body because everything is energy. Everything is energy.

Yeah. Everything is energy. I love that. I'm actually going to try that.

Yeah, go for it. And there's some of it's binaural, so it activates better if you put EarPods on or headphones on.

Like Calm. Have you heard of Calm?

Yes, I have heard of Calm. Calm, I think, is more meditative, right? It's more meditations. Yeah. Or is there music?

Well, it's all very loud, so it's like the— you basically put it on your headset. And it's like different. They're 20 minutes of super loud. It's like, like, it's like different. I think it's called— yeah, look up called Calm Brainwaves.

Okay, look at brainwaves. Um, there's also some— it's called, I think it's called Isotonic, where you don't need the headphones for it. It just will activate whatever. But yeah, there's this one called Fearless Awakening that starts off with these chimes, and it's 17 minutes long. And every time I listen to that, I I just start crying. There's something about that. And then also just being in gratitude. It's like I don't have a gratitude journal per se, but if when I'm having a really off day, I quickly am listing things that I'm grateful for and it helps. And it's a reminder. It's a reminder that at the end of the day, it's all gravy. Like it's all, it's all just icing on the cake because we're here, because we're experiencing it. You know, like one of the things that I go back to, like, I'm like, you know what, this problem, whatever it is, it's not that big of a deal because everybody I love woke up today.

Yeah, it's true.

That's a great perspective. That's not guaranteed.

No. And by the way, I'm going to leave it on this very shallow note. Are you not wearing a stitch of makeup right now? No, I'm wearing makeup. No, you're not.

Yes, I am. I have mascara on.

Oh, give me— on your face? No, no, no. Like, how are you? Peptides, man.

I want a GHQU whatever. Yeah, the Wolverine staff. Yeah, I'm really into that.

Okay. What else are you taking? Are you on any other supplements or— I take progesterone.

You do take progesterone? And I talk about it in the book. I talk about all my secrets are in the book. Okay.

I want to know a few right now. Testosterone?

Yeah, I just got on that recently too, which I really love because I feel like that's just been really good for my energy. Yeah. And then progesterone I started a few years ago and I really love that. I really think that's the trick to like really good skin and like plump and whatever, cuz it's the happy hormone, you know? It also just helps everything flow down there. Yeah. Helps regulate all your horm— when your progesterone is off, it's like everything is off. Yeah. Your sleep, like all of it. And then I'm also really big, every 6 weeks or so I do something insane to my face. Like I blast it with a torch pretty much. I have these, these two facialists that I swear by. Cynthia Franco, um, you can find her on Instagram and Dr. Ellie. You can also find her on Instagram. Dr. Ellie is a Korean acupuncturist who has all the machines from Korea. She literally puts things on my face that like make my cheeks like move up. Like it's like some weird stimulation thing where you're just like, what is— you feel like you're being zapped for an hour, but my God, does it work.

And we also do more invasive stuff and we do the salmon. Yeah. She like, she created that. Like, that's how OG she is. She's the one who created that, like, over 12 years ago and did it on the Kardashians. And then Cynthia, she does soft wave. She does soft wave. But I go for her. I go to her for like every 2 weeks for just like facials. But they are intense facials with like lymphatic. And she does this electromagnetic thing with gloves. And it's like, over time you do that enough times, you know, it's like, yeah, your skin gets used to reacting that way. So those are, I gotta write a big part of my, geez, beauty. Yeah. I'll, I'll send it to you on Instagram. Okay. And tell both of them I sent you.

Absolutely. Because I mean, as we're talking, I'm like, damn, what is she doing for her face?

Oh my gosh. Unbelievable. And I do think those peptides make a difference because, you know, you're supposed to cycle off, right? Yeah. Anytime I'm on my off cycle, I can so see a difference. I'm like, oh my God, really? I'm like, I'm calling my doctor, my hormone doctor. I'm like, when can I get back on? He's like, give it the month.

I'm like, can I do 3 weeks. Are you serious? Who's your hormone doctor? Um, Dr. Asandra. Chris Asandra. Yeah, I know who he is. Yeah. Yeah.

Go to him. He's amazing.

Yeah. People, a lot of people, a lot of my friends go to him. He's popular. He's great. Yeah. He's great. He's very popular. We live in a great time.

You know, we live in a great time where it's like, look, there's no point in trying to out-cute the kittens. Okay. I, like, I talk about it in there in my aging chapter. Yeah. It's like there is no point in trying to pretend like you're 45 and you wanna look like you're 20. That is a losing battle and actually think it makes you look older.

Yeah, it does. Right. So it's like there's no point in doing that.

But we do live in a really wonderful age of time. We live in a wonderful time and era where we have a lot of things at our disposal. And if you do your research and you have the means, you really can just kind of preserve and slow things down. But it's also important to do that internally, too. You know, it's not just external, right? It's important to biologically also do that. So it's, it's a, it's an exciting era we live in.

It really is. Look at you. All these tips and tricks. I'm like so excited. By the way, I should have taken a notepad and written notes down because—

Well, you've got the audio. I know.

I was going to say I'm going to have to go back and like literally listen to all the doctors.

Text me anytime. Text me anytime. I'm happy to tell you all of it again.

I want those. I want the estheticians. I want all of this information. Yeah, I'll send it all to you. You guys have to get this. This book, I'm telling you, life is lifey. There's so many— there's— and there are all these like nice little tips in there.

It's also available on audiobook.

Oh yes, on the audiobook. Wow.

We've made a couple, um, bestsellers lists, which I'm very proud of. Which ones have you made? Wall Street? I made LA Times. No, I want to make more.

So if you know anybody—

yeah, um, uh, we made LA Times and USA Today.

Okay, that's still great. Yeah, it's great, right?

I mean, I never expected to make one of them considering this was a book like my whole team at one point 3 years ago, they were like, you don't have a voice, you shouldn't write.

They said that to you? Maybe you should change the team. I did. Okay, good. That's not a very good team. Yeah, yeah, no, that's not like Robert Altman who said, I think you have something. That's a really bad pattern right there. Yeah, these were the—

this was the team that was like freaking out when I was turning down all that procedural work, and they're like, what are you doing?

Yeah, yes, because it's like money in their pocket short term. Yes, I get it. Sarah Shahi, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a pleasure. No, it's been my pleasure, honestly.

Like, I, I've, I've loved you from afar for for a couple of years. So I'm glad that we actually got this happening. So thank you. Me too.

And I'm happy to make new connections.

This feels good. This is amazing. Okay, guys, go check out Life is Lifee with Sarah Shahi's book, and you guys will not be disappointed. Thank you. Of course. Bye.