Transcript of Episode 501: Alejandra Maria Gallo: Dating Strategy, Emotional Regulation, and Taking Your Power Back

Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle.

Crush it. Guys, women. I think it's for everybody, but women, you're going to thank me for this podcast. I really think so. We have a young woman. Her name is Alejandra Maria. She is a dating strategist. How would you describe yourself? It's more than just a dating strategist.

Yeah, I would say strategist is the perfect word.

Yeah, I think so. Because what you're really... So this is how it happened. Here I am, doomscrolling on TikTok, and one of Alejandra's videos came up, and I just thought you were so good in terms of cutting through the crap and getting to the meat of the matter and really breaking down relationships, modern dating, psychology, emotional dysfunction, regularity, so well that I had to reach out to you. And coincidentally, you were coming to LA. Yeah. So this was meant to be.

Yeah, it was meant to be.

I'm so glad. Also, she's Canadian, so this is even more of a thing. Even better. Even better, right? Because I love, of course, how do you not love a Canadian? We're Canadian. So thank you again for coming on the show. I love that you're here. What we do first before we do anything is we take a healthy performance shot. These are Magic Mind. They're delicious, and it keeps my guest on point and very, very focused. Sure. And they taste, like I said, very good, and they have all sorts of yummy ingredients. And I know that you're an ultra-marathoner, so I thought of all the people. Going to be perfect. Yeah. I've already had three today. I don't know if I should have any more. It's good, right?

This is really good. I know. I was expecting it to have a sharp taste, but it's very...

Wow. I know because most of these shots are terrible, but this one's actually very good. I'm not going to do mine because I do fly off the walls if I have more than four a day.

Where do you get these?

You can buy them at the script? You can buy them actually at... I see them everywhere now. You can buy them online, but you can also buy them at Aero1 in LA. I don't know if they come. Oh. Yeah. I've heard of that place. Yeah, exactly. Aero1 is a whole thing. Okay, right, because you're Canadian. You can get them at Aero1 I don't know if they have them at Whole Foods. You could buy them online. Go to magicmind. Com. And that's actually not even me being an ad. This wasn't supposed to be an ad ad, but that was... It's actually these are legit. Everyone who has them really loves them and ends up wanting to buy them before your workout or before they do anything high performance-wise. Anyway, with that being said, let's start because I have a lot, a lot, a lot of questions for you. Let's go. All right. So So the first thing is, when you call yourself a dating strategist, how is that different than being a dating coach?

I would say when you're working with a dating coach, that's someone that's working alongside you through the ups, the downs, holding your hand. I think for me, I just want to cut through the BS. Come to me with your problems, let's create a plan, and then you work the plan. And if we need to talk after that, let's talk after that. But I think it's all about building the confidence in yourself so you can feel comfortable in the decisions that you're making.

Well, it's interesting. I have a little bit of an issue with sometimes therapy because I find that people can go to therapy for years on end and just talk and ruminate over the same problems and talk about the same problem over and over and over again and not really get anywhere. And so I guess what I like about that whole approach that you just said is that it's like you are tackling the issue with... It's like a very solution-based, action-oriented type of program where it's like, okay, here's the issue. This is what you're supposed to do. If you don't want to do it, then I'm not for you, right? You want to get to the meat of the matter and get people a result as opposed to just going evergreen forever.

Yeah. I think sometimes we can get stuck and just talking about the same problem over and over and over again. And sure, I think that there is some benefit to talking about it. But if you're not going to take action on what you want, then you're constantly going to be stuck in this victim's mentality. You're constantly just repeating your mistakes.

So you focus, if I'm not mistaken, tell me if I'm wrong, but you focus on women, first of all. Yeah, definitely. And also highly successful women.

High achieving, high performing women, yes.

Yes. Now, what made you really target and skew to high performance women, ambitious women, successful women, and not just overall, just women as a whole? I think it's important to know who your target audience is, because sometimes if you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody.

I think before I was doing this, I was working in the tech industry, and all of my girlfriends were having the same problems, and they were coming to me for advice. That's what I felt comfortable talking about working with.

So how did you evolve yourself into being a dating strategist for high achievers or high achieving women? What were you one of them, and you were having issues in relationships? Or give me the origin story of how you started this whole thing. Okay.

Well, I will say that self-development has always been a really big part of my life. My mom was always big in that. I think, growing up, I just noticed how relationships can cause people so much pain, regardless of what your upbringing is. And so it always fascinated me. And then it was when I called off my engagement about two years ago that I decided, this is something that I've always wanted to do. I was starting over, and so I felt I had nothing to lose. And so I might as well try for the life that I wanted. And so, yeah, I started to really focus on dating psychology and creating content. And I started posting content in January of last year. And since then, I've been able to grow an audience of over 850,000 people worldwide.

It's amazing. Well, because I think when people have good content that cuts through the BS like you do, people find it, right? I think we're in a world right now, digitally, that a lot of people are just me-tours. They do the same thing. Everyone's saying the same thing, doing the same thing. So the ones who actually stick out or the ones who have a point of view or a perspective that's usually accurate But people don't want to know, don't want to admit.

Oh, it's polarizing, definitely.

It's very polarizing. Because a lot of people find your content to be manipulative, like very manipulating or manipulative. I don't actually see it that way. I see it as being actually very raw and honest of what works and what doesn't work. We're going to get into that in a moment. But I have one other question before we start, which is, were you always the person, you mentioned it earlier, the people came to when they had relationship problems or they needed advice on dating? Were you always that girl?

Yes. I would always say that I'm not going to be the friend that celebrates you throwing your life away and just celebrating mediocre behavior. If you come to me with a problem, I'm going to say what I think. I'm not going to be the friend that you come to to cry with and eat bonbons with, and then you go and do the same thing over again.

Right.

Like the comfort- That's just not happening.

You and me would be like BFFs if we live closer, I think, because we have a very similar ideology of what works and what doesn't. But okay, because one of the things that you really talk about, which really hit for me, which I say all the time, is this idea, and you just phrased it better, which is emotional diversification. Yes. Because I think... Can we talk about this? Absolutely. Because I think that is so clever. And I think the way you put it together for women is really important, and I think that we should spend some time on it. Yeah, absolutely. So just why don't you just explain to all of us what do you mean when you say emotional diversification, and how can we apply this to our life?

Okay. So the analogy I like to give is in the same way a financially independent millionaire has several sources of income, you're never too pressed if one of those income sources dries up. But I find that oftentimes in relationships, you get yourself into trouble if your partner is your only source of emotional validation, reassurance, and fulfillment. You want them to be your best friend, your boyfriend, your confidante, everything. And I think that can be dangerous because we know not to do that financially. If you give someone the power to feed you, you also give them the power to starve you. And so I think that when you're going to be in a long-term relationship, it actually works for the polarity of the relationship to have your own thing. I think that is the most attractive thing a person can have. It's a very full life that you're not easily pulled away from. You're very engaged in what you're doing.

Let me just make sure I my audience and I understand what you're saying, which is when you put all your eggs in one basket, and that basket so happens to up and leave, or something happens and disappears, you're really left with zero, right? To become the zero sum game. However, if you diversify and put a little bit in this basket, a little bit in that basket, when something may go awry, it's not so devastating, right? And I think this is why I think a lot of people get into trouble, right? When women rely on a man basically for money, right? Which is a big one. Super dangerous. How many people do you know, I know a million, who are still in relationships that are toxic, marriages that are not very fulfilling because they are afraid to leave just because they are unable to, they feel, make money on their own, right? And/or because your whole life becomes wrapped up in the other person that your whole identity is now... You don't even have one, right? Yeah. So you're saying then it's very important to make sure that you have other things to do. So give us an example of a framework of how somebody can start doing that if they haven't done it already.

Of course, the financial piece is the big one, so we can talk about that a little bit, but other ways we can emotionally diversify.

I think having a strong community. I think often Sometimes when my high performing clients come to me, they'll say, I don't have a lot of friends. I go to work, I go to the gym, and then that's it. And so I think being able to connect with other women, running clubs are huge. Just finding a way to really feed your body, but then at the same time feeding your mind, like learning new things, not just constantly consuming content. I think also thinking back to your childhood and thinking about the things that you enjoyed when you went out to play. For me, I would make you YouTube videos with my sister. We made music videos, and it was so fun. But I think that was helping me figure out what I wanted to do later in life because it never really felt like work. And so for me, creating content always felt really natural. I think also being able to just know what you want out of life, I think.

So if you see a lot of high performing, high achieving, very successful women, Usually, you would think that that would mean that they have emotionally diversified because they do have their own career, right? They do make their own money. Where do you find that they do lack? Is it mostly on the other social end? They have work, and then they have maybe a relationship, but then they have no other outlet. Is that what you're noticing?

I think they don't know how to slow down and be still with their thoughts, and it will reflect in their relationship. So for example, let's say they start going out with someone, they really like them. Obviously, you're going to notice that there's going to be a gap. And either the person that you're dating can fill that gap, that emotional space. But oftentimes, My clients, they'll just think to themselves, Okay, I see this gap. Let me just go and fill it. Let me take that initiative. Let me show them how much I care. Let me plan all these dates. But then they end up in a dynamic they end up presenting, where they are doing everything and their partner is doing nothing. And And they feel almost like a mother, and their partner is their child.

Right. Well, I think that you talk about that a lot, too. I feel that happens with anybody who's competent, right? The person who is typically the more competent one, the more successful one ends up running the show a little bit. And what you're saying is no matter how competent or how successful the woman is, she should never take that role of being the one who is planning everything, doing everything. Because then it does create this weird power dynamic that's very unattractive. Yeah.

And you never end up actually knowing if your partner is with you out of convenience or if they actually want to be with you. Because it's easy to be with someone when they're doing everything for you. They're making your life so easy. But what about when things are inconvenient? I think it's really easy to find someone that you can have a good time with. With enough alcohol, you can have a good time with pretty much anybody. But how about somebody you can have a bad time with? Someone that is going to be there for you when it's inconvenient.

But I find what you just said, the whole be the... So many women fall into this trap where they become eventually the mother to their boyfriend or husband or whatever their partner, which is such a turn off on both ends, right? It's a turn off for the woman, and it's a turn off for the guy. The guy loses interest, right? Because that's not a sexy thing. But it's not just... Actually, I don't see that happening so often only with high achiever women. I see that across the board, right? If you go on a social media, that's all the memes, right? Like, Oh, I got to pick out his pants for him. I got to make his dinner. Remind him to take his vitamins. Remind him to flush the toilet. It's also what society has joked about for so long It that women end up in this motherly role. And it is like what happens. It just morphs into it. When you tell people, how do they stop doing that, catching themselves in that act? Why does that happen anyway? Because typically, I think what normally starts is a lot of times, maybe the man was the one who was taking the initiative, but there are somewhere along the lines, the role got reversed.

Yeah.

Right? Yeah. And then she started to take over. And because that's what she's done in every other area of her life, when it comes to building the career, building the finances, building the body, just work harder. But when you do that in your relationship, I think that's where men and women fundamentally differ. A woman could go out on a date with a man, and she might not let him pay because she might think to herself, I don't want him to expect anything. But if you do the most for a man, he's not sitting there thinking, She's going to expect more for me. I better pick up the pace. He's thinking, If she's doing this for me, then I must deserve it. And so you think that you're building up his admiration when really you're building up his entitlement. And so the more you forgive, the more you bend, he thinks, Wow, I'm king of the castle. And so I think it's just important to know that it's okay to say that men and women are different and knowing that You can complain about it, but ultimately, the next three months are going to look a lot like the last three months unless you decide to do something different.

I think that's where strategy is really important. People say, Oh, well, that's just playing games. But there's a strategy to everything you do in life. There's a strategy when you want to make a recipe, when you want to go somewhere, when you want to build muscle. And so the same goes for dating. But I think that's where I think people are getting a bit stuck.

I totally agree with everything you're saying. I also find there's a reason why there's a whole world out there, and books are written about it, and people talk about it, that men do prefer bitches versus these nice girls because it keeps the guy on their toes a little bit, right? If you just acquiesce and do everything and say they're right, there's something... Most men, again, this is not like, I'm not sweeping everybody with the same brush, but Most men do like that hunter, that hunt mentality, that animalistic thing. And if you're always just easy prey, they will lose interest and or think that you're easy. So they'll find other things to challenge themselves on, as opposed to challenging themselves onto you. I don't find that to be strategic. I just think that's just obvious.

Yeah. Well, common sense is not always common.

So common. You're a Canadian girl because it's a Canadian thing. So can you give women who may be listening to this podcast a couple of strategies where they can start really taking that into heart, to talk to heart, where they can start doing tomorrow.

Okay. So let's start in the beginning stages of dating. I think a common question clients ask me is, what do I say when he asks me what I'm looking for? You would not give away the pin to your bank account. You have to hold your cards close because sometimes when you are very straightforward, that might get you far in terms of business. But in relationships, sometimes that can invite a performance, not someone showing up authentically. I think people are not going to tell you who they are. They're going to show you who you are. So it's just important to try to have a good time and see what you learn along the way. But sometimes when you ask these very pointed questions in the beginning, you're not actually going to get the answer that you want because who is going to say to you, Actually, I'm a terrible person. I'm a serial cheater. I lie to my family. I'm in loads of debt. Nobody's going to tell you that, but you're going to be able to see their habits. If you can just try to get to know people and stay true to yourself, I think women already know exactly what to do because they do it with men that they don't like.

If a guy approaches her and she turns them away, she's okay with enforcing those boundaries. But the moment you start to like somebody, it's like those boundaries go away because how often have you been in a situation where you say, I don't usually do this. And then you go and you do the thing that you don't usually do. And so it's just important to remember that people are going to treat you the way you treat yourself. And so it's not that he lost interest because you slept with him too early. It's he lost interest because you said that, you know what, this is really important to you. And then you didn't stay true to that. And so it's being able to stick to your word. If you're going to state a boundary, I want you to expect them to test it because it's almost like in the grocery store with a child, when you tell your child, Don't touch that candy bar, and what are they going to do? They're going to and test that. Discovery is always going to be more impactful than disclosure. Let people discover your boundaries. For example, if you're going out on dates and you notice that he's stopped planning because he always expects me to be available And so now I say no to my friends, even though he doesn't create those plans, go hang out with your friends and let him see, Oh, when I don't plan, actually, she's not available.

Let him feel those consequences instead of talking.

Right. Instead of just saying, I don't appreciate when you don't make plans, blah, blah, blah. See how he behaves and then act accordingly. Yeah. So how would you tell people to act then? Because would you say that Let's say in the beginning stages or even later on, are you saying not to be too available when they ask you out? Are you saying, don't reply to every text message? Do you have some rules that women should be- Number one is show, don't tell.

Show, don't tell. Don't argue with someone that is not your boyfriend. Why are you spending so much energy? This is just someone that you might want to get to know. You wouldn't argue with the stranger in the street. And so why are you arguing with someone who's truly not even your boyfriend? I think also a man that doesn't do anything for you, a man that doesn't want to make your life better, deserves nothing from you, truly. Because Women, we amplify everything. We have the power to change the energy in an entire room. You give a woman sperm, she'll give you a baby. You give a woman a house, she'll give you a home. I think sometimes women are told that that's not as powerful as it is, but it is. Men used to go to war for women, die for women.

There's been a huge shift, though, in the last many years.

Yeah, lots of... Yeah.

There's a lot of shifts. Modern dating is not... There's very few men now, I just notice, are not as chivalrous. They don't believe in chivalry. Everything is about equal. I mean, I could be the biggest powerhouse in the world, but I still believe in chivalry, and I still believe that a man should open the door of my car, a man should still pay for dinner, a man should still take care of my tech support, whatever it is.

Yeah, mow my lawn, take out the garbage, do something.

There is something to be said for keeping certain gender roles. I don't know what the word is. Consistent. Consistent. And there is something to be said for being a man and having masculine energy, which are these things. Who wants to go on a date and you're paying Dutch? Are you just splitting the bill? It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing.

It's embarrassing. If you hate me, just say that.

But I think that there's been a shift overall. There's two things. I think that we're in a or in a culture time when... Actually, I would believe some men think now it would be offensive to try to pay for the bill because some women are so pro, I don't know, feminine, like feminist rights, that they've been blurred with what's actually chivalrous and what's feminist and what's appropriate. I find that's why people are not dating. They're not having these love romantic relationships with the opposite sex anymore. Yeah.

I think that the whole 50/50 argument is all the rage, right?

Not to me. Yeah. Well, a lot of people- Have you ever heard this saying, what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine? Yeah.

Yeah. He's all about hers, she's all about hers.

Yeah. Well, no. But I find true men, they want to be able to... They do want to do that. Yes. But do you think that women, though, they play this like, no, women are just like, man, no, we're not.

No, we're not.

And that whole song with Miley Cyrus, flowers. I could buy my own flowers. Yeah, you may be able to buy your own flowers.

Who wants to do that, though? Yeah, but who wants to...

I don't want to buy my own flowers.

And I don't want to ask you to buy me flowers either.

Right? So you've seen all of the... Okay, so with all of this happening in modern dating, the ghosting, the texting, the social media, the DMing, sliding in someone's inbox, the apps. Where are we now with modern dating? What should we do to push back? And also, what are some red flags that we should be looking for?

Red flags. I think when it comes to dating apps, someone that hasn't filled out their profile, they're just throwing something up without actually putting some thought into it. I think that's a red flag. I think talking negatively about your exes. I think before you give your man or give a man your undivided attention, I want you to go through his social media following. That is going to tell you so much about who this man is. If you go through his social media following and it looks like a nail salon directory, pack it up. Because I just don't believe the whole argument of, Oh, I don't even know how I'm following all these people. It's like, No, you're following these people for a reason. I don't know about you, but my social media feed is very curated.

By the way, I have a better one for you. How about, Don't Date a guy who's on social media?

Oh, yeah.

I think that's the number one.

I think that's the gold standard.

That's the gold standard. That's the number one dating tip I can give you. If your guy is on social media, probably not the guy you want to be dating.

I don't think I could ever date a guy who knows what a photo dump is.

I see some of these guys on social media who are putting together carousels. What are you doing putting together a carousel? To me, go out there and work. Go out there and do something more productive. If you're sitting there like- Go cut wood. Yeah, or like, do something. I don't care. Cut wood, do your job. Go sit in an office cubicle and just pick your nose. But if you're spending your time on social media to that level, where you're curating your own photos and pictures.

It's problematic.

It's the biggest turn off in the world.

Yeah. Go make some money.

You could say, Well, what if they're an influencer?

I wouldn't date a guy influencer. No, no, no. But what I will say is that I do think that all men are providers. Whether they provide peace or problems is another thing. But I think even if a guy maybe isn't at the same financial level as you, he will want to make your life easier. It's almost like they come to you, and it's almost like they become childlike. They just want to please you. They just want to make you happy. But if you find that a guy is continuing to come in and out of your life, and he's providing nothing but confusion and problems, that's not cool.

I think there's a couple of things. You said at the beginning, I think everybody somebody's like a puppy dog and doting, right? I think that's called the honeymoon stage. I think the bigger question is, what happens phase two? Because I think everything wears itself out a little bit, right? Like the honeymoon stage eventually wears out. So where maybe they're not as doting. That's the phase where I think a lot of people fall into a problem, right? I think the first phase where it's like, Puppy love, and he wants to do everything for you, and you guys love each other, and it's all great and fine. Then what? Because that will fade.

I think developing emotional discipline and finding someone who is not just seeking immediate gratification. I think that happiness is a byproduct of fulfillment, and that comes in doing the hard things. It can feel unrewarding when you've been in a relationship with someone for maybe four or five years, and it feels like it's the same thing over and over again. And so I think still being able to pay attention to the small things and being able to show up for yourself, but also show up for your person and knowing that, okay, this feeling is going to come and go, but I'm not just looking for someone that I can have this constant excitement with. Because as someone who came out of a long term relationship, you notice that it's not that exciting. And it's just important to know that the undisciplined life isn't worth living because it doesn't produce anything.

So tell us what you mean by emotional discipline.

I think emotional discipline is being able to do what you know, not what you feel. And I think oftentimes people just listen to your heart, just do whatever feels right. But really, when I'm in a situation and I have an instinct to act in a certain way, okay, I know I need to pause. Because it's almost like with time, you get perspective, you get clarity. It's very much like when you were in college, and let's say you went out drinking with your friends and you came back home, and you swore, you set your alarm to seven o'clock. And then you wake up eight hours later and you realize, actually, I set my calculator to 700. You think you know in the moment, but you don't. And so I think being able to allow for space between your emotion and your actions so that you can really digest what's happening. Kind of treat it like a science experiment.

I think the first step would be self-awareness, that you have it or you don't have it. Is there a framework that you can walk us through of how people can start truly developing emotional discipline in real-time?

Yeah. Doing hard things, doing the things you know you don't want to do. Wake up every day and ask yourself the question, What am I avoiding right now? What am I avoiding? Because that's probably the thing that you need to do most, and that's going to probably affect your life the most.

So would you say emotional discipline is really just discipline? Going to the gym for me has created That's like a microcosm for life, right? Because I've forced myself to a place where habitually every day I go to the gym, no matter if I like it, don't like it. I'm not basing me going... My workout or me working out has zero to do if I want to do it, zero to do if I feel like it. I will do it anyway, not because I like it, not because I'm interested in it, but I do it because I have disciplined myself over time to get up, and that's part of my daily routine. And I focus on how I feel afterwards, not how I feel before. And I don't rely on my feelings to tell me or dictate if I'm going to be at the gym or not. I just know I'm going. Now, is there things that we can do in life? Maybe it is the gym, where that gym, going to the gym, working out every day, helps train and hone your emotional discipline.

Yeah, I would say journaling has been really helpful for my clients. Okay, why? I think, especially when it comes to dating, sometimes they'll want to come to their partner and just say whatever is on their mind. I disagree with that. I think that the way you say something and the way you express yourself to your partner is crucial because either you're going to build up trust that when they come to you with a concern, that you're going to hold that emotional space. But how many times has a partner come to you and you're just reactive, and then you immediately want to say your side? I think being able to take a step back, being able to articulate what you want to say, and then coming together and having a respectful conversation, those things can be really helpful. Also, oftentimes when I'm in a situation with a partner and something really bothers me, and then I say something in the moment, oftentimes it's not helpful. But if I take even a couple hours, ask myself, Okay, is this really a battle that I want to take on? Because if everything is a battle, that's probably It's dramatic.

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So you can see why I'm obsessed. Go to joinamp. Com/jen to learn more. That's joinamp. Com/jen, because strength should fit your life. Now, is there something to be said for attachment, like different attachment theories? If you're an anxious person and I'm an avoidant person, maybe we just aren't a good match. What are some matches that people maybe can look at? Because I hear a lot about that in his eye, guys. If he's an avoidant, and if you're an anxious, then maybe... Is there any truth to these things?

I think that at the core of every anxious person, it's just a person who is in a severely avoidant relationship with themselves. They don't know how to self-regulate, and so they turn to the people around them, and sometimes they're overly reliant. Sometimes that can be quite taxing on your partner. I think at the core of every avoidant person is just a person who is in a severely anxious relationship with themselves. Their parents let them down, and so they learn how to be hyper independent. And what were they told growing up? They were often told, go to your room and come back when you can be rational. And so now when they grow up with that mentality, when people come to them with their emotions, they're like, what are you doing? This is weird. Give me some space, or I'm going to give you some space so that you can handle yourself just for things to get even worse. But I think that attachment theory and anxious attachment and avoidant attachment, it's a spectrum with secure being in the middle. And so you'll often find that avoidant partners and anxious partners typically go together But that's not saying that you can't create a healthy relationship out of that.

It's a matter of, do both of these partners want the same thing? Do they want to make it work? Are they willing to do the work? Because I can't tell you how many times I've had clients come to me And it's the anxious partner saying, I just want him to go to therapy, and I want to do couples counseling, and he doesn't want to do it. That's like forcing someone to go to the gym. Anybody can go to the gym for a couple of days a week. But unless they want it for themselves, you're not going to see the results that you're looking for.

I like the way you said, so the way to harness emotional discipline, a good tip would be to journal because you're basically verbalizing verbal diarrhea on a piece of paper.

And people don't do that anymore. They don't write things down, really.

Well, can they write it in a note?

I think you can, but I think it's more powerful when you're actually putting it down on paper because it really slows it down. Using the voice to text, I'm guilty of it. I use voice to text so much. But no, really slowing down and not listening to anything, not listening to TV in the background, not listening to your music, just being really present and allowing yourself the opportunity to learn how to sit with negative emotions and not having to do anything. A lot of people, they can't. They'll turn to food, they'll turn to alcohol, they'll turn to dysfunctional behaviors. You are such a powerful person if you can just emotionally regulate yourself.

Well, emotional regulation is the number one most powerful thing you can do for success overall in life, not just in relationships, but professionally in other relationships in your life. The ability to self-regulate, emotionally regulate, they say is the number one predictor of your success level across the board. It's also the most difficult thing to do, right? Especially if you're someone who has anxiety or ADD or whatever it is, right? I'll be curious to ask you because you work with such successful women on a whole, what would you say the number one thing is that most of your clients or most successful women complain about when it comes to dating?

They come to me and they say that men are threatened by them. And men, they'll self-sabotage, and they think that the dating pool is really small. That's what they'll come to me and complain about.

Yeah, because if they're super successful, they want a man, typically, who is more successful than them. And we're living in a time when, if you haven't seen the numbers, let me just give you some stats here. There's more women in college, more women in master... Homeowners. In what?

Who are homeowners.

Who are homeowners, more women, successful entrepreneurs, more women make more money. And they've taken on the role of the masculine role, like we were saying earlier until the men become these more subservient or more less successful person. So again, the power dynamic, it's very off. So what do they do?

I think it's learning how to really lean into your feminine energy, which is just letting things be, not feeling the need to fix everything.

But that doesn't change. You can lean as far left or right or up or down into your feminine energy But if there's no successful men that are superseding your success, you're still left in a very weird power dynamic.

Yeah, and it can be challenging. But I think also being able to really be okay with being by yourself. For a lot of my clients, they are better off by themselves for a period of time and letting that person come to them. But when that does happen, being able to let him lead, not pushing the relationship forward whatsoever, because the guy who does want to be that guy for you, he's going to do it. And you would be shocked at how these women, it's almost like they turn into somebody else. They become so playful. Have you ever had some friends where you are just so playful with them? You feel so safe with them?

Because you're not forced to be in your masculine. So I think a lot of women who are successful and high achievers, they fall into the masculine role or masculine energy because they have to, because they don't have somebody who's going to be able to take over that masculine role. So it becomes this chicken or the egg situation, right? It's not because... I don't know one... I really don't. I don't know many of my friends who are single or dating, who are the really successful ones, who want to be this dominating powerhouse alpha woman. They don't. They don't. But they have no choice because they're not able to find a man who will take on that alpha role. And women want that alpha man. It just is what it is. Guys If you're a B, if you're a beta, I don't know what you call it, you maybe don't want to hear it, but that is the reality.

It really is. Yeah.

It's not even so much about looks or any of that. It's an energy, right?

It is. And if he's not confident, if you're always having to reassure him, it's going to turn you off.

Totally.

Because what these women want is they want to be able to turn off their brain and let them handle things because they're going to be happy with where they end up. Right.

So then let's get into the landscape of dating right now, because we said it's not so easy to find people. People are now online a lot. If you're busy, it's not that accessible. So people are joining these running clubs, whatever else. Or if they could, they're not, but they should. Can you tell me what you're seeing? What is the landscape from your perspective of dating right now?

I think there are a lot of people that are on dating apps that just aren't serious. And so I think oftentimes you could go out on a date with a person and you could have an incredible first date. It could be five hours, right? But then it's emotionally exhausting to try and keep that up. And so what I think is that when it comes to dating, almost schedule it in. Don't just passively be swiping throughout the day. Just say, okay, I'm going to dedicate 20 minutes swiping and knowing that, yeah, I do want to be in a long-term relationship, and so I'm going to put myself out there. I'm going to go out to that coffee shop without my headphones in. I am going to be more approachable. Then when you do find someone that you're going out with, I would encourage you to date multiple people. I'm not saying sleep with them, but what I am saying is that when you go on dates with more than one person, person, then you know not to invest too much too soon. There's a cadence to it. Let these dates be 60, 90 minutes, and then see what you like, see what you're comfortable with.

Then if you want to continue seeing someone, then yeah, go and do it. But when you dive face first and you're three dates in and you're practically moved in together, then you're not allowing things to develop organically. You're missing the red flags.

Because since you do specialize in women who are highly successful, take it back with that because are they going on apps? I don't see these women who are A-list celebrities or B-c... I don't see celebrities.

Yeah, Raya is not what it used to be.

Raya is not. Have you been on this I mean, I'm not on Raya, but I'll tell you that a lot of my friends who actually are on Raya, it's a bunch of influencers and want to be actors. That's what it comes... And then some real or actors. Let me just say want to be actors. I don't think it has necessarily the caliber that, honestly, that women are looking for. Now, Ria is going to sue me, probably. But I'm not on there. This is hearsay. This is me just saying what I think I've heard, okay? But what I'm saying is that, where are people going then to do it? Where are these women meeting these men?

It's really friends of friends being set up. It's working on your community, your social network.

Doing what you like to do and then meeting people in the places that you would normally go. It's no secret that whenever I've been single, I love to work out and I love to eat food. So I would meet the guys I would go out with at a grocery store or at the gym without fail. I meet them at Whole Foods because I'm always there or at the gym. That's why I think it's also really important to emphasize again and reiterate again that it's so important to have things that you enjoy and that are your hobbies and diversify your interests. And not everything goes into that partner. Not everything goes into that man, because if it doesn't work or even if it is working, both of you, It's actually a better dynamic when you both have things going on in your life.

Absolutely. Because if the relationship isn't working, you're more inclined to let it go. But if you have let your career slip, you've let your fitness slip, this is like your your only thing that you have going on. You're not going to want to let go.

No, absolutely not. That's why I was going to say, even if you're financially reliant, keep your body hot, because if it does end, you'll find someone quicker. Stay hot. That is hot.

That's my number one tip here.

Stay hot. Stay ready. Me and my friend always say this. They're like, Are you ready to go? I'm like, I stay ready. I don't need to get ready. I stay ready. I don't need to get ready because I'm already ready. Exactly. And guess what? It shifts everything else anyway, because I believe life also, there is a big piece of this in self-confidence and self-esteem. If you have a higher self-esteem and a higher self-confidence, people will respond to you the way you respond to yourself. I think confidence is the sexiest thing out there for a girl, a guy, whatever. It doesn't matter. And like, someone Someone will treat you accordingly, right? If you don't feel that you're so great and you feel not that attractive and not that fit and not that smart and not that capable, guess what? If you're putting that energy out there, they're going to pick up on it, and it won't be attractive to them either, I promise you.

Yeah. And people think it's superficial that you want to stay hot. No. Stay hot. But when it comes to having a job, people understand that when you've been at a job for three, four years, keep your resume current, upskill. Always be learning, right?

And also, always be learning. But I will always tell my friends that in general, we talk all the time. Once you allow yourself the permission to let yourself go in every way, that's also when things start to slip and fall. I think it's very important to keep the other person on their toes. This is what I liked about your content, right? Because you were speaking a language that really resonated with me. I'm a big believer in all of this, right? You got to know your worth. You got to have confidence. You got to show up for yourself. And no matter how someone's treating you, if you have your own sense of self, your response to whatever they do is very different than if your self-esteem is low, if you're insecure, if you feel unworthy. How you're going to respond to that person and in life is very different. The opportunities that happen to you will happen very differently to you when you think that you deserve it versus the opposite. Never let a guy, I don't let a guy or anybody think that they're lucky to have, that you're lucky to have them. They should feel lucky to have you.

Yeah. And men actually thrive in relationships like that where they feel like, oh, my God, I have no idea how I got this woman, but she's here, and I'm grateful, and I'm just happy. A hundred %.

A lot of friends I have, like men, guy friends, the ones who are the happiest, the ones in the happiest relationships, the happiest marriages, it's because the guy, honestly, they feel so lucky, and they feel like they won the jackpot with their wife or their wife. The ones who are like, Yeah, she's fine. That's not a great place to be. You know what I mean?

No. How often have you been to a wedding where it's the woman speaking, and she's telling everyone about how, You know what? Yeah, he wasn't that into me, but eventually, I did a backflip, and he noticed how great I was. I've never heard that, actually. Yeah, you never hear that. But how often have you heard a guy saying that, She blew me off. She put me in her friend zone for a while, but it was a slow burn, and then eventually we fell in love. How often do you hear that?

That's exactly true. I was going to say the ones that actually tend to still be working years later, it's like when the guy had to work for it. I tried for so long, she'd blow me off. She said, No, I kept on coming back. I kept on trying. I kept on trying. Guys need that. I just think that... To me, this is just human nature, actually. This is the laws of human nature, which is why I want to talk to you about... Now we're going to segue into something else that you talk a lot about, which is when you do break up. Breaking up is a big one, right? You are big on no contact, no contact, and detachment. Yes. Okay. So does this scenario... Is it whenever you have a breakup in general, or There are certain circumstances where that doesn't apply, or does it apply all the time?

Well, I mean, if you have kids, that obviously doesn't apply. You obviously have to stay in contact to some degree. But I think in general, no contact is the way to go, because otherwise, Otherwise, you are prolonging your healing. And you might think, Oh, I don't want to block them. I don't want them to think this. I don't want them to think that. This is your life. This is your life. And the more you avoid the inevitable, the more it's going to hurt. And so would you rather do it right or do it twice?

Right. Or more than twice, actually. Yeah. So is there a certain thing, a strategy, or is it no contact forever? Or is it also depending on what you're your intent is? Are you doing no contact to get the person back, or are you doing no contact just to move on with your life? There's different strategies that would be applicable depending on what you're trying to accomplish, right? Yeah.

So I think that in general, no contact is forever. If things ended and it was a very dysfunctional dynamic, like people were cheating, betrayal, all those kinds of situations, really, why would you want to be with someone that you literally had to heal from.

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Yeah. When you have kids, when you have joint assets, when you work together I've had some clients where they have a business together, and so it can be incredibly challenging. And so in those cases, no. But definitely having strong emotional boundaries. And these aren't things that you state. They're things that you just enforce and things that you have to hold yourself accountable for, which means no contact is not going through their social media following, seeing if it's gone up or down. It's not showing up at the restaurant you guys used to frequent to see if you're going to bump into him. It's not reaching out to his friend saying, Hey, how are you? I need help with this. I need help with... No, none of that. You need to cut it off completely. In fact, get one of those 30-day calendars and put it on your fridge. Every day that you maintain no contact, you're not looking at anything of theirs. Cross it off.

Yeah.

Really just focus on the next 24 hours because that's the way to go.

Also, the truth of the matter is, scarcity breeds curiosity. Scarcity and interest, right? If you're always there to say, Look at me. Look at me. Hey, I'm still here. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're defeating the... If your goal, again, not to be a manipulative person here, but if your goal is to to get the person back, and you keep on texting them, and calling them, and checking in on them, you're going about it wrong. You don't have to be a dating strategist to know that. Again, it's laws of human nature. Scarcity breeds interest, curiosity.

It's value.

Value, right? That's why a Birkin bag has more value than, I don't know, my Lulu Lemon bag, right? Yeah.

Because there's less available.

Yeah, because you have to work for it. Exactly.

You have to build a relationship relationship. And you never know when the reward is going to be. It's that intermittent reinforcement.

100 %. So how does one detach from an ex? Is there a framework people can work? Can you give people some strategies or some action items?

I do have one exercise that I tell my clients all the time. And the exercise is called what's the story? Oftentimes, when we think about the relationship deteriorating in our mind, we think it's completely different. And so we put it down on paper and we're making all of these rationalizations of, Oh, he meant well. He was just going through a hard time. Is he going through a hard time or is he just having a bad life? If he's constantly doing this, Oh, this isn't who he truly is. Really? He did it 15 times. Who else would it be? And so being able to put that down on paper and then going ahead and highlighting all of those inaccuracies and then rewriting that story that's free of those accuracy. So you can take them off that pedestal. Oftentimes, when there's a breakup, we put their love on a pedestal because we think, wow, it must have been me. I must have been the problem. And then allowing yourself to reframe the situation.

We all do that. I think everyone is guilty of that, right? That's the problem, I think, though, with no contact even sometimes, right? Because I would think that the longer you don't talk to the person, the more time you have to romanticize the relationship and to reframe it into being better than it was.

Yeah. I see this quote all over TikTok, and it's, There's a lot of intimacy and never speaking again. Because all you're left is with the memories, right? And oftentimes Sometimes, yeah, we look back and we think it was better than what it really was.

How do we shake our... How do we get ourselves out of that?

Realizing that it's not about the love that we had for them. It's about reminding ourselves of what we had to sacrifice. When I think back to my previous relationship before I started my business, sure, I love that person, but I hated that version of me. And there was just no way I was going to birth the person that I am now if they were still in my life.

So tell me, what happened to you? What was your story? What that got you on this path? I know we talked about earlier, you were doing tech work and this and that, but okay, so what was your heartbreak?

So So, yeah, I met them in 2019. It was like a whirlwind romance. I was visiting family in Nicaragua, and then COVID hit, and so we had to go our separate ways. He went back to Australia. I went back to Canada. But we kept an online friendship for nearly two years throughout COVID, and we were video calling throughout the week. These were hour-long calls. I got to know this person on such an intimate level, right? Yeah. Without even seeing him. And then when borders opened up, I decided to go to Australia, and he said, We didn't come this far to not see what we could be. And then I went fully remote with my tech job. And when you're in Australia, you have to be on a working holiday visa. So I worked two jobs. I worked the tech job that was fully remote. And this is the craziest part. I was working at Krispy Kreme. Nothing wrong with that. But I was working these two jobs. Because you had to have the- Yeah. So I had to have those two jobs, right? So then three months into the relationship, I I was going to stay there.

I noticed some messages that were in his phone, and they made me really uncomfortable. I remember he woke up because it was in the middle of the night, and he's like, This won't ever happen again. I said, If I ever I'm not going to catch you doing anything like this, I don't care what's happening. I will leave you. Then throughout the relationship, I just had this sinking feeling that he was doing things behind my back. There were certain stories that he would tell me, and it just wasn't sitting right with me. Then Everything came to a head when I found out I was pregnant. I found out I was pregnant. It was so stressful. It was an ectopic pregnancy because I had an IUD. I had just seen the person that was so eager to be with me all of a sudden become the meanest person I have ever met. At that point, we were engaged, we were living together, and I decided to quit my tech job to fully focus on building my life in Australia. Obviously, I didn't have full working rights at the time. I just remembered thinking to myself, this is the most vulnerable I have ever been.

We were at his sister's wedding when I told him about the termination, and I said something about him getting a vasectomy. And he said, I don't want to play this game with you, but if you force me, I will. I provide this incredible life for us so you don't get to talk. And it was in that moment where I was like, I just knew everything I need to leave this man, right? The The following week, I'm getting ready, going to work, and there's just something in me like, he's doing something, and I need to know what it is. I go through his computer, and I see so many messages with different women, just really disrespectful stuff. I know a lot of people that are listening to this, it's like, wow, you're going to throw away your relationship because you just saw some messages. It wasn't about that. It was the fact that I had literally taken a massive step back in my career. I had put everything on the And for what? For him to disrespect me like this?

For him to- I don't think anyone would say that to you. I would say, absolutely. Why would they... You move your life to Australia. You quit your job. You're pregnant. I think that's a lot of... I think that nobody would listen and be like, Why would she do that?

Yeah. And so things were probably the worst it had ever been. And I thought to myself, Okay, maybe I can still see past this. Maybe we can still work through this. And I had I asked him to live on base. He could live somewhere else for a couple of weeks while I was recovering from the termination. I kid you not. I noticed that he had been following a girl from his past, one that we had argued about. What do you have it? I reach out to her and I'm like, Has he reached out to you? The day I asked him to leave to give me space while I was recovering, he said, Are you still living in Sydney? That was That was it. I booked my flight, and I was like, This will never happen to me.

Are you used to living in Sydney? Who said that? The girl?

He said that to her. He said that to her because he wanted to go meet up with her for whatever reason. Yeah, while our relationship was literally falling apart. It was in that moment where- What year was this now? This was October 24th, 2023, so not even two years ago. Then I packed up my things. I moved back in with my parents. I was completely broke. I remember one of the last things I asked him was, Please don't ever do this to anybody else. Can you just promise me that? He didn't even give me a straight answer. I was like, You know what? I'll take it on myself. I'll learn everything I need to know, and I'll educate as many people as possible so that women don't have to go through this. And then, yeah, now, nearly two years later, I have nearly a million followers across social the media. Yeah.

Has he reached out to you?

No, he hasn't. But there are some things I can tell you off camera just because I know he's in a relationship right now, and I don't want to embarrass anybody.

Wow. That's crazy. But you know what's actually even crazier? This happens all the time, like some form of that type of situation, right? Yeah. And you're young, though. How old are you?

I'm 26. Yeah.

So you're like a baby. So this is just the beginning for you. You're going to have... You have a boyfriend right now?

Yeah. Yeah, he's actually here with me right now. Oh, really? Yeah.

Okay.

I left all the bags with him. I was going to say that's. He's checking in at the hotel right now.

Oh, cute. How did you meet this guy?

We met on a dating app. I won't say the dating app because they're not paying me. Okay. But yeah, we met on a dating app, and it was just easy. It was easy. We were very aligned, and he wasn't threatened my goals at all. He's the fuel to my fire. Like, very supportive, very ambitious, very kind.

What does he do?

He's in sales.

And how long have you been dating him for?

For a few months.

Oh, so it's very new.

Yeah. After I called off my engagement, I was celibate for probably a year. A year, yeah.

And then you met this guy.

Yeah.

Well, you probably met someone else before him. Or maybe not. Did you go on a lot of dates afterwards?

I did go out on dates, but nothing that ended up being serious. I think I was just so focused on building my business and just establishing stability in my life that I think, yeah, it was only in the last few months where I got to a point in my business where I was like, okay, I feel safe. I feel comfortable. I think I'm ready to actually, yeah, prioritize dating. And it just fell into my lap.

Because you talk so much about no contact and attachment that For such a young girl, I thought, how much experience have you had in the no contact? What made you double down on that part?

Double down on no contact? Yeah.

I feel like a lot of videos that come up on my feed with you are about absence, detachment, no contact. Why so many on that area?

Because that's what I think my clients struggle with the most, and that's what they want to know. There's There's so many videos out there that are like, oh, play hard to get and make him chase you. But what about healing from a relationship? Nobody talks about these things. Why? Because it's embarrassing. It's hard to heal from the things that you can't even say out loud. I think trying to create content that's helping women in that stage of their life is really important for me.

That's interesting. So would you say then that from all the experience that you've had with your clients and social media DMs, I would imagine, is that's the biggest struggle? Is how to stay away?

How to stay away. How to stay away. When How to walk away from someone that you still love, that you want so badly, but you know that they're never going to get it. They're never going to get it, and you're tired.

Have you seen no contact work all the time? What's the ratio?

Yeah, I think, well, it depends what your goal is. I have one client in particular that she went no contact with this guy, and he went like, beserk in trying to repair things. She had actually moved to support him with his residency, and then he had taken her for granted. Her whole family ended up basically hating him. She moved back home, and he basically wrote a book of all of the things that he was going to do differently. He called her parents. He went to go and meet with them separately saying, I won't even try the further relationship unless I have your approval because I know she cares about you guys the most, and it's just not going to work unless you guys are on board. And he went through the Ringer and he made it work. I think that's why I do believe in the whole, if he wanted to, he could or he would. He would. Yeah.

Right. I always think that, too. If they wanted to, they would. I heard something funny the other day. Was it like, don't chase somebody who knows where you are.

Yeah, exactly. Who knows how to contact you.

Who knows how to contact you, which hit me really hard because it's so true, right? But we like a spiral, right? Because it's like a dopamine hit.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's tough because when you're in no contact, what are you doing? You're betting on a future that doesn't exist yet, right? And so that's so tough because so many people stay. I know so many people that are in relationships right now where they're suffering, where they don't like it. And so I think it's just important to know that you're writing the story for your 80-year-old self. And so what is your 80-year-old self going to say?

Well, yeah. I think that people normally do no contact. I think it may start... It also depends on where are your reasons. It may start with one thing, but then if you wait enough time, it will change, right? You'll get over it because even though you're doing it, you're like, Oh, I'm going to get this guy back, or he's going to really regret giving me up, or whatever the thing is, It does. But if enough time passes, you end up... The pain starts to lessen, right? And it ends up working better for you in the long run.

Yeah.

I I want to talk to you about dating norms again. And what have you seen change most dramatically in the last few years? And what should people adapt to, and what should people resist?

I think women wanting men to be more chivalrous and wanting to pay for everything. This is the thing. I think that whether you're a 50/50 person or you want someone to fully provide for you, both are perfectly fine. But I think where you get into trouble is when you know you have these set of values and you know this person is not aligned, and you go and you try and change them. You are going to exhaust yourself, and you're going to end up resenting the person. I think that's really important Just to focus on values, not just how you feel, but values and also having fun. I think a lot of people, they'll go into dating and they say, I want to find my forever person. Okay, yeah, you should have fun with the right one. But Well, if you're going to be dating the wrong ones along the way, inevitably, have fun with them, too. It's almost like when you go on vacation and you're staying in an Airbnb, you're not going to be there forever, but, well, I hope you'd have a good time. How often have you been to an Airbnb and you see the coffee machine, you're like, Wow, this is nice.

This is amazing. The view is great. And so I don't think that there's anything wrong with even short term relationships. I think that a short term relationship where you two are together for a year and you two could get to know each other, but you notice that, okay, we're going in two separate directions and you leave the relationship respectfully. I think that is more successful than being in a five-year relationship where you two are tearing each other down, where you two are miserable, but you're But whenever it's your anniversary, it's like, oh, I've been with this person through these ups and downs, and you're doing it all for social media. Do you want to look happy or do you want to be happy?

No, exactly. There's something I also think is interesting in terms of overall relationship If you fail at relationships or just don't have a long term relationship, it's considered a failure. Let's say you have four, two year relationships. You're considered to be a dating failure. Like, Oh, what's wrong with you? That you only had these short term relationships versus this person who's had maybe a 16 or a 20 year relationship. But yet it was combative and they fight all the time and he hates her and she he hates him. It's so toxic. But because they've been together for that long duration of time, it's considered to be a success because the time stamp is longer. I think that we have a very warped way of seeing what a successful relationship is and what it's not. And to me, just because you are with someone longer doesn't make that relationship any more successful or doesn't make you more successful in relationships. I think the person who saw a problem or didn't settle, got out quicker, more times, is way more true to themselves and to how they want to live their life. And to me, that person is more successful in relationships.

Not the other way around.

Yeah, definitely. I think it also has to do with the relationships of our grandparents, our grandparents that stayed together for 50, 60 years. Sometimes when you sit down with your grandmother and you ask her, Oh, how did you and grandpa get together? And you're, Do I need to call the police? You're actually concerned.

Yeah. Well, a lot of people, they just stayed together because that's what they did. So give me some more things on that point, things that we should adapt to or resist?

I think that you should resist men being feminine. I think that, yeah, men aren't going to like it, but it's better to be alone than to be with someone that you feel like truly doesn't deserve you. I think that sometimes women will go for the nice guy or the guy that's not so great-looking because she thinks, Oh, he's going to treat me better. He's going to do you even worse because he thinks that because you're giving him a chance, like I mentioned before, that he must deserve it. I think being able to stay single, be happy with who you are, and then dating someone that is either at the same level as you or above is important.

When you say feminine, do you mean take on the feminine roles, or are you talking neediness? When you say feminine, that could be a very overarching- I'm talking about men who want to be chased. Oh, men who want to be chased. Men who want to be chased. Men who want to be the girl. Yes.

Men who want to be chased, pursued. They want you to take them on trips and ask them to prom. No, no, no.

But that's, by the way, that is what's happening in the world right now. Yes, I know. It's alarming. No. Men want to be the ones who are like, wined and dined and chased. It is so sickening. How is that attractive? Ladies, if that's what you... Please, that is such a turn off.

Yeah. And so I think what women really need to lean in is With taking up space, I think women so often we're ashamed for taking up space. Oh, she's so loud. She's so demanding. She's such a princess. What else am I supposed to be a dorm at?

Yeah. Well, I think the other... Like we're saying, a lot of times, if a man is not confident and secure, it's very emasculating if a woman is successful.

Yeah.

And so that's why I think these dynamics are super important. If in terms of having roles in the relationship. I think there's nothing that is 1950s about that, or maybe it is. I don't care. But I think that's really important. Is there anything else you want to talk, say? When you say you have these coaching programs, what do you do?

I offer one-on-one sessions. I do have a three-month coaching intensive called Dreamgirl Academy. And then I do have some clients that are on a yearly retainer. And yeah, essentially, women will come to me with their problems, will dive deep on the dynamics that are going on, and we'll just create a strategy moving forward. But I think for me, it's my goal to work my way out of your life so that you feel confident in the decisions that you're making, so that you can trust yourself and that you can feel happy about your relationships, not just with men, but all around.

I love it. Well, thanks for being on the show.

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Enjoy the rest of the time in LA. I will. Thank you.