Transcript of Episode 499: Kim Perell: Building a $235M Company from the Kitchen Table + Why Perfectionism Kills Success

Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. All right, you guys. Today, we have a very special guest, one that I've known about for many years, have been hearing a ton about, but never really met you until just now. Her name is Kim Pareil. She is a nine-time serial entrepreneur, a true badass. She wrote a new book. It's called Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire. There is so many amazing nuggets of wisdom throughout this book. So if you are somebody who is wanting to start a business, feel stuck, don't know where to begin or afraid, this is the podcast to listen to. And thank you for being on the show.

I'm so happy to be here. I've heard so many great things about you. So being in the same room is amazing.

It's really amazing to meet you. And I'm not just saying that because you have to be polite when people come on your show. But everything... I mean, you actually walk the talk. A lot of times, people say a lot of things, but they don't They don't really actually have the chops. You have the chops. So this book is a really... I think I also I read it and I thought like, wow, this is actually really helpful and actionable for people who are in a situation where they're on entrepreneurs, or they're attempting to be entrepreneurs. So anyway, thank you for being on the show. We do this thing here on Habits & Hustle, where we take a healthy shot because I'm healthy, where I try to be healthy. These are their magic minds. We shake it and we cheers, and it keeps you super focused and sharp. Not like you need to be focused or sharp. Oh, I love.

Anything that make me smarter, I'm in. Yeah.

Well, I think you're plenty smart. But here you go. Let's go. Yeah. I should be careful, again. I always start this. I've taken three today. I should not do so many.

When am I going to feel it?

Right now. No, you're going to feel it in like, listen, you tell me, actually, tell me after the podcast how you feel, because you won't really know until after. You'll just start and tell me if you feel more focused, more energy, sharper. You'll let me know when we're done. As we go. Yeah, we'll see. I'll let you know. How about that?

Okay, yeah. Let me know how you feel after how many ever shots you've had already.

I've taken too many, and then I'm doing a lot of podcasts today, so probably I should be very careful. I think they told me, they actually said to me, You got to be careful. You can't take five. I'm like, Okay, fine. I'll just take two or three. But anyway, let's start. I have so many questions for you.

Great.

Let's kick it off. All right. So the book is called Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire. What is the number one mistake that you think you made that made you a millionaire?

Oh, my gosh. Well, I made so many. But I think the number one mistake that I made, and I think everyone else makes, is waiting to feel 100 % ready to Start. And I overthink things, and I get lost in analysis, paralysis, and I'm a perfectionist. I have so many tendencies to want to make sure everything's perfect before I take it to market, before I get it out there, to start a company, to do anything. And that waiting kills success. And so early on, when I started my first company, I heard this amazing advice from a Marine Corps general, and he said, In The Marines, they give the 70% solution, which is if you're 70% ready and you have enough information, 70% of the information to take action, you should do it. And I thought, well, if the Marines are doing this, I can do this, too. I'm young, I have no idea. Great. 70%, let's go. And honestly, I use that really early on. I still use it today because else I will get stuck in just perfecting things, perfecting my pitch, perfecting my marketing deck, perfecting social media. It's just like, put it out there and then iterate along the way because until it hits the market, you have no idea, and it's never going to be ready anyway.

No, I agree with you. The only question I have with that, because I have heard you mention that before, the 70 % rule, right? If you're 70 % ready, then that's enough to start. But how do you quantify if you're 70 % ready, 50 % ready? How do you know? How does somebody know, right? Because like you said, people are scared. There's hesitation. They're not sure. So what is a way someone knows?

I think it's when you start perfecting the edges, when you start just looking at the small things. Now you're just making excuses while you're too scared to put it out there, whether it be your website or anything that you're doing. Honestly, you can use this personally or professionally. I have four kids. I was never ready. No, of course not. So at least if I'm 70% ready, you just got to make the jump.

I think people are never, ever 100% ready anyway. And we fool ourselves to think that we'll ever be that place. You're right. I've got two kids. I never in a million years thought I would ever be ready to be a mom. But it's analysis, paralysis. The more you think about it, it keeps you stuck and you never propel. And even if you make a mistake, you say, I think it was a hero somewhere else I heard, the idea of you don't have to innovate. You can iterate, as you just said. The iteration is where the money is at, right? You're not going You don't have to reinvent the wheel to be successful.

And you shouldn't. And you shouldn't. It's such a waste of time.

It's a waste of time.

And I think focusing on progress over perfection. Just remind yourself, just a little bit farther every single day. And you're not going to dream really big, start really small. What can you do right now to push your dreams forward?

Even think about the project you do with Jay Shetty. It's called June or Junie? Junie. Junie. I think that in the... Like, food and beverage. Let's just talk about food and bread. Just energy drinks or all the things. At what point... Like, it, POPPY is a great example that sold for 1. 2 billion. I was like, oh, my God, who needs another one of these beverages? And then boom, another one just crushes. I think that there's room for so much. Finding your audience and figuring out what your niche to iterate is what is important. You're not going to... There's a million drinks out there, right? But that doesn't mean that your particular product can't fit in the noise.

There's so many drinks, but even take a look at POPPY. They've done an amazing job of having a modern soda. I think with us, we have a tea. What is the modern version of tea? It's something fun and flavorful and sparkling, and it's packed with adaptogen. So you don't have to innovate. You just have to do it better than the last person.

And also, I look at POPPY as a great case study because That's just one... Before that, there was something called Buy5. Do you remember them? Or Buy6? Or Buy... Maybe it's not Buy5. It's spelled B-A-I. And they sold, I think, for five billion. Or Celsius, that's worth 10 billion. I can go on and on, okay? The The truth of the matter is, and this is what I wanted to ask you, because it really is about the branding and the storytelling behind the brand. If you can tell a really good story, your brand has legs. The supplement company Just think about the world of wellness and supplements. There's a bazillion supplements, and then all these new ones come out, and I'm like, How the hell is that one worth $2 billion? So I guess my question to you is, do you know what makes something a good story, or how do you teach somebody how to tell a story or market or brand well so they even have a leg up?

For me, and I invest a lot of companies, I've invested about 150 companies, and I think it is about the story. It has to be something truly authentic to the person creating it, the founder creating it. I mean, that's what I'm investing. I'm investing in founders, founders that are so passionate about something that they have to bring it to life. And that's exciting. And I think that's actually makes great entrepreneurs because it comes from their own personal story. And so it's really important to start with the story and to make sure that it's truly authentic to you because it's going to get hard. I talk about it. You're going to make a thousand mistakes. You're going to want to quit. It's only that passion that will push you through when everyone else wants to give up. It has to be something that's deeply rooted in something that you really love.

What would be the first step that you would tell an entrepreneur that is the best step to take forward, to move whatever they're doing forward?

Well, first you have to decide, is this a hobby or is this a commercially viable product? I would say it's getting to a minimum viable product and take it to market. The market does not have to be going to the biggest supermarket. It could be going to your farmer's market and trying to sell it and seeing if anyone will buy it. Because if you don't have product-market fit, you'll never be successful. So many amazing individuals with amazing ideas, no one wants to buy them.

That's a great point. I think that that's not thought of enough because people think they got to go big or go home. You need to have market research to know if your product or your thing people even want or care about, right? Right. And you know what's interesting? The farmer's market thing in LA, I think I've seen a lot of products that started at the Farmer's Market have gone on. Isn't it POPP or Ollie POP? I'm sure. One of that it was so successful at the Farmer's Market. Oh, is it even maybe Slate? I don't remember. There's a million brands that I'm involved with as well. I can't remember. But they use the farmer's market as a great testing ground. Yes.

So you get feedback right there with customers. They can tell you about the taste. They can tell you if they like the product, if they would buy the product, if the price point is too high, if the price point is too low, would they buy it for more, would they buy it for less? There's so much information gathering you can get if you just collide your idea with the actual customer because the customer is going to dictate if your product is going to be successful. Right.

And then what do you think about following trends? Let's just talk about currently right now. Everything is about protein. If you're someone between the ages of 38 and 58, all you hear about are weighted vests and protein, protein and metopause and hormones. I mean, these are the things that you constantly see. Now, if you think, okay, this market, I'm just giving you an example. Oh, this market is really popping right now. I should then make a product within maybe a protein product because it does well. Everyone's putting protein in everything, in gummies, in brownies, in soda. In soda.

Yeah, protein soda.

Protein water. I mean, I can go on and on. You can go upstairs and see the plethora of different companies sending me protein snacks and beverages. Now, do you think that's a good idea or a bad idea? Because if you're following a trend because you think you can make money at it versus something that you think, like you said, is authentic to what you want to do, what advice would you do? If you saw that, or do you see that a lot, that people just do that?

I mean, listen, ideas are a dime a dozen. It's all about the execution. And if you're passionate about protein, go all in. But if you're not, probably not the right business for you to start. It's great to look at trends and understand if there's an opportunity. But the The reality is the hard work comes in actually creating the business, and that is the challenging part. So if you're not truly passionate about protein, you definitely should not start a company for it.

Because I know there's some... I think that's a question I always hear or people always talk about is that, Well, this is really hot right now. Should I get into this business? But if you don't like it, then you're not going to do well with it, right? Which then leads me to this, you said earlier also, like entrepreneurs. So is there one particular thing that you see or you've shifted your opinion on what makes a successful entrepreneur?

I think that passion beats skill.

Okay.

So early on, I would have said you have to really have the skills in order to become an entrepreneur. But now, no, you just have to have the relentless hustle, the grit, the tenacity. It is so hard being an entrepreneur. And that, honestly, is why I wrote the book, because I wanted to share the struggles that I have. So other people, they're going through the same challenges. And so if I can be transparent and vulnerable about the challenges that I've gone through on my journey, it gives permission for other people to fail forward, make mistakes, but also pivot and change business models and do something different. Because in today's age, the market is moving so quickly that if you don't adapt and you don't have flexibility, you will get left behind.

I love that part in your book where you talk about pivoting. I think the power of the pivot because that is something that's really hard for people, right? You get so stuck in your ways. And I think a lot of times the businesses that do the best is when they can pivot. So could you just talk more about pivoting? What happens? Oh, my gosh. I wrote a note here, even though I can't see that I want to unpack this idea of pivoting because I think that people don't focus on that enough as a way to next level what you're doing.

Well, think of the most successful companies we know. Youtube started as a dating site, Twitter started as a podcast platform, Netflix started sending DVDs by mail, Shopify started selling snowboards. All of these businesses had a vision and changed along the way, and they pivoted based on market feedback, why it's so important to get to market. And I think if you're not willing willing to pivot and open to the idea that whatever your original idea may change, because it will change. 99% of the companies I've invested in have pivoted at least once. If you're not pivoting, you're probably, honestly, here's where you should know if you should pivot or persevere. Number one, you should pivot if your sales are declining, if for some reason you feel stuck in your current business, or if somehow the customers aren't renewing. Anyone that's listening and thinking, My business is stuck or I'm not growing, means you should probably pivot. And we talk about five different pivots in the book, which I want to, from my own experience, it could be a market pivot, it could be a product pivot, it could be a people pivot. Maybe you have the wrong team, and maybe it's time to pivot and get a new one.

These are challenges that most entrepreneurs face, and they have to be okay with recognizing they are challenges, and now I have to adapt to them.

See, I think that that part of the book is so interesting to me because Can you name the five pivots? I know you just said a few, because I think they're all its own entity that can really change the whole business model, your entire life, really. If you stay staff the magnet, everything is a ripple effect.

Right. So you have the market pivot, the product pivot, the pricing pivot, the customer pivot.

There's another pivot. The people pivot.

And the people pivot. That's for the five.

So the people pivot, I think it's very, very important, right? Because Because people can be holding you back, and you don't even know it. Or you have a B team, a C team.

Or you're just loyal to people that have gotten you to where you are, and you don't know how to get to the next level. Well, those people are holding you back, and not because they're bad, but because they don't know how to get to the next level either. So unless you get better people that have actually been where you want to go, you will not be successful. You're holding yourself back because you don't want to make the hard calls. You don't want to make the changes that are necessary in order for your business to thrive.

Yeah. Did that happen to you? Yes.

Oh, my gosh. I get it. I can speak from experience. Your team becomes the team that grew with you. And at some point, you need to get better people that have better experience onto the deck Because you actually don't have... I don't have the experience myself. I'm building a beverage brand. I have no experience building a beverage brand. Now, I consider myself a great beverage entrepreneur, but a couple of years ago, I'm like, I have no idea. I'm a tech entrepreneur, right? But I did surround myself with beverage average executives that have been in the business for 20 plus years. So I don't need to be the smartest. I just had to be able to surround myself with the smartest people in order to be successful.

Are you spending most of your time on this right now?

Yes. Oh, and having so much fun. Oh, really?

Oh, yes. Because you had your first company when you were 23 or something, right?

Yes. So I had my first company. I was 23. I sold that by the time I was 30.

What was it?

It was an internet marketing company.

Okay. What did it do?

It basically sold ad space on the internet. Oh, okay. So you can go to the Yahoo, you see an advertiser?

That's you. That's me. Oh, okay. So simple. And you did it at 23?

Yes, at 23. To be honest, it was very early 2000s when all of the dot coms were going bankrupt. I remember, yeah. I asked my grandma for a $10,000 loan because I wanted to start an internet company. And she's like, What's the internet? Yes. But that was the catalyst that started. Honestly, I didn't feel ready. Everyone told me I was crazy. Everyone told me, get a real job. You have no experience. You've never run a company. Me and like, you can't do this. And you know what? I did it anyway. And that was the pivotal point that changed my life.

You pivoted.

I pivoted. I said, you know. But I think it's also the confidence in yourself has to be greater than anyone else's doubt in you. And people are going to doubt you. There's the naysayers, the critics, the dream killers. I still tell anyone, if you've got these type of people, and I write about in the book, these toxic people in your life, they are prohibiting you from reaching your greatest potential.

What happens if the toxic people in your life your family, though. I know. And that happens. I think that people talk about toxicity and talk about people getting the toxic people out of your life. But it's not so easy when they're like your blood, right? If it's your wife, your husband, your sister, you know what I mean? Whoever it is that's close to you. It's hard to just drop them if you're a loyal person.

Yes, it is. But you also have to, again, put yourself first. I think it's really important because if they're toxic, that is going to drag you I also believe in balance. If you're spending time, let's say, your family, you go to your mom's house and she tells you why your company is not going to work. You need to balance that with five more people that are telling you why it's going to. So you have to offset it. And really being conscious. I also think boundaries are really good for a family. I don't want to talk about my company that I'm going to build because you don't think it's going to be successful anyway. So let's just talk about something else. And I think putting up boundaries for family is really a good idea because what they're saying really hurts. If your family doesn't like what you're doing and they think it's a bad idea, you take that very personally. So I think just, let's not talk about it.

Right. Or there's always other reasons. People are usually... A lot of things, I think people are very fear-based, and so they put the fears onto you. Not always it's a bad intention, right? Sometimes it's jealousy, which, by the way, happens, too. But also it could be just because of their own fear, they're just self-imposing it on you.

Yes, they're self-imposing. They're limiting beliefs on you because they don't think they could do if they were in your shoes. And so you have to identify that as them, not me.

Yeah, exactly. So then when you sold your first company, you were 30 years old, how much did you sell it for? 20 million. And then what did you do after that?

I had a very big earn out for another 20.

Did you get an investor to help you with that?

No, just my nanny. So then I called my nanny. I told her, Nanny, you made your money back like 100 times your money? What do you mean? Yes, because she gave me the first $10,000.

I thought your nanny My nanny, my grandma.

Your granny?

I was like, your nanny? Yes, my nanny. Oh, my gosh.

Yes, my grandma. I called her. She's my only investor.

Okay, because you just said nanny. I was like, what? I got confused between the granny and the nanny.

The nanny, same person. My nanny is my granny, and she's amazing.

So your nanny was your granny? Yes. Okay, so your granny wasn't- It's not my nanny, it's my kid's nanny.

It's actually my nanny, as in my granny.

So your granny gave you the money, and then she made her money back.

Can you imagine if my nanny gave me the money?

Well, that's what you said nanny. I was like, did I miss something? No, that's good for you. Okay. I just was paying attention. I was like, Nanny, granny, maybe it's my hearing. I know my eyes are bad, but I thought my hearing was still pretty okay. I'm all about finding sustainable ways to optimize performance, the work that actually moves the needle on how you feel and function. And that's why I really need to tell you about Prolon's five-day program. Most of us are chasing quick fixes that never get to the root of the problem. And the result is sluggish energy, brain fog, and bodies running below its full capacity. But Prolon changes that by triggering your body's natural repair and renewal process at the cellular level. It's not a cleanse or crash diet. Prolon is the only patented fasting-mimicking diet developed at USD's Longevity Institute. It's a plant-based program run with soups and snacks and drinks that nourish your body while keeping you in a fasting state. The benefits are backed by science, deep cellular rejuvenation, fat focus weight loss, no injections, and better metabolic health and energy, plus improved skin and even reduced biological age.

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I honestly, I started investing in other people because I wanted to pay what she gave me. You get a lot of rejections, and it only takes one person to make a bet on you and to believe in you to change your life. And so that's why I invest in so many companies and so many entrepreneurs, because I want to pay that forward. I want to be that one person that makes that first check into an entrepreneur that just has an idea and have How would that be transformative.

Do you have a fund?

I have my own family fund, yes.

Yeah, your own family fund. So name some companies that you've been an investor that really hit.

Oh, my gosh. The Trade Desk, I invested very early on, and now it's worth... It did an IPO, so it's probably at 30 billion.

Okay, so that's a good one. That was a good one.

That's a good one. Let's see. I'm an investor in a company called Cribs, a company called Capari. I'm an investor in... Oh, Capari?

I know that one. Yeah.

That great, coconut.

I like that. Yeah, I love that.

Stod, which clothing brand. I mean, I've got a laundry list. A lot. Yes, a laundry list of amazing company.

So you have a big fund? Or what fund is it?

Is it like- Yeah, I mean, that's what I do.

So you run the fund, I would imagine.

Yes, I run the fund. I make my own personal investments. Yeah.

And so When you look to invest in someone, are you looking for the passion and the entrepreneur? Oh, yes.

Because I know I am an entrepreneur. I know that it's going to take more than whatever you think is going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's going to take twice as much time. It's going to It's going to take twice as much money, and it's going to take twice as much heart as you ever thought.

Totally agree. It's my belief, I'm actually talking about this in a couple of days, that I believe that VCs, and the research backs this up, it's not just my own personal opinion, that VCs invest in founders more than they do the business model. So you could have an okay business model, but the founder is really impressive and dynamic, you'll put your money there, versus the opposite. You could have a stellar business model, but the founder is not that great. You're not really that stoked on them. You will not put money in. It's actually a 40% change. And you'll get a 20% higher valuation if you like the guy. Or the girl.

Oh, for sure. I think I look at three things when I invest. One is the... So three T's. One is the team, the founder and the people they have this surrounding themselves. So they're like, I'm going to do it alone. You're not going to. So that's a huge red flag for me. If you just I think, Oh, this is my idea. I don't need a team, or I don't care about my team. As a founder, you really need to care about your team. The second is the TAM, which is the total addressable market. I want to know there's a big market opportunity for me to make a lot of money. I usually look for technology companies. Now, because I come from a tech background, it makes sense for me in my investment thesis. Obviously, I go outside of that depending on my own passion. I'm really into health and wellness. Obviously, that makes the cut for Juni or some of the other companies that are aligned with my own personal values.

Yeah. So of the three that you just said, you said team, if you're going to make- Team's number one. Team's number one. Without a doubt. Is there a big gap between number one and number two?

If you don't have the... I mean, people first. Exactly what you're saying, people invest in people. So if you do not have the right people, it doesn't matter what business you're in.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. I got to look at my thing now because I told you I'm blind and I can't see anything. So let's go into something else that I think that you were talking about, the five traps that hold us back. Let's go through those. Besides the obvious one, I think fear holds us back.

Yes. And comfort holds us back. We're comfortable, right? And I think that goes back to the mistake of staying too long. And I mean, I've stayed too long in a job. I know So many people have stayed too long in a relationship, in a job, and they just stay because they're in these traps, these traps of comfort, loyalty, fear. I mean, there's so many traps that they just can't get out of. And we look at all those in the book. I think at the end of the day, there's two things that I recommend people do, which is one, really think about yourself and think about where you are in your situation. And ask yourself if you're earning or learning. These two things. If you're not earning more money, and you should be, you should leave. If you're not learning new skills, new opportunities, if you're not actually getting intellectual stimulation, you should go, too. Or else you're just trapped.

Yeah. Those Those are really good ones. I really like the fact that I think that the loyalty everyone can relate to that. Well, not everyone. If you have a heart and you have some... It's hard not to. But you also... I think the other one is we are our own worst enemies, conquering that inner critic thing. I think you talk about that in the book because we can talk ourselves really in or out of anything. How do you suggest somebody can conquer their inner critic?

I think it comes with action, to be honest. Action creates confidence. And I think you have to act in order to... And act by doing something that scares you and excites you, right? And that creates the confidence that I can do hard things, hard things that I didn't think I could do, hard things that scare me, hard things that I'm afraid of. But that gives you the confidence to think, Okay, I did that. I could do it again. And honestly, when I look at things that I'm like, Oh, my gosh, how am I going to be able to overcome this? I look back at all the things I've done previously, and that gives me confidence to push forward because I know I've overcome certain challenges on my own journey that gives me the confidence to know I can overcome new ones.

So this is what I'm going to... I agree with you, but I'm going to push back for one second, right? Because you're somebody who comes from... You did it. You took a chance on yourself and it worked, right? You had a payout, and you had all these other successes to build your confidence. Let's talk about the person who maybe did, who tried maybe once or twice, and it didn't work out for them. They actually had failures that didn't pay off yet, but yet they're still itching to do something. How do you get somebody who has now a poor track record to take a chance on themselves again?

I mean, first of all, failing does not make you a failure. So you have to be able to separate those two things from your mind. And then you have to know, statistically speaking, if you failed once, you're actually twice as much, twice to be more successful. Great. We're now on the road to success. So I think knowing that gives you the confidence to say, I've actually been... I hate rock bottom. Rock bottom is a great place to start again. And knowing statistically that you like will be better because you learned what not to do.

Yeah. Not always. Don't do that.

But you do learn a lot through failure. And I think I've learned more from my failures than I have my successes.

So let's talk about a couple of your failures again that have then led you to your biggest successes.

Well, I've had so many failures. First of all, I talk about in the book, The Mistake of Partnering with the Wrong People.

Yeah. You know what? That's a great one to talk about. See, I'm very interested in all the that type of the interpersonal EQ parts, because to me, that's what makes or breaks anything. Picking the wrong people, staying too long because you're loyal. These are the things that really stumble. Like, stop. Stop people from getting to the next place. So let's talk about picking the wrong people. How do you pick well?

Well, first, I picked a lot of bad ones.

Right? Yes. Because you know what? People think that if they have a great resume, that's the perfect person for them, which is completely not true.

Oh, my gosh. I talk about in the book, the POP, the perfect on paper. Oh, I've hired the perfect on paper. They look so good. The resume is perfect. They came from the perfect background. They look perfect Everything about... And then you get them in and they're terrible.

That's like men also, actually. Yeah, probably, right? Yeah, it is. They look great. Or women, too. That's the thing. It's like the sales representative is perfect. They look perfect. They went to Harvard. They have this. They have the They have the perfect job. They have the perfect pedigree, the perfect family. And then in real life, they're awful.

Oh, awful. How did you get this far? But they look really good. I don't know. I got suckered in. I hired one, and I talk about someone in the book that I hired, and it was a disaster. Talk about the- Disaster. So I hired a head of sales many years ago, and he looked perfect, literally perfect. I was so excited because I needed a new sales lead, and this is such a crucial position. You know what the red flags were, though, is when I asked for references, and I think references are really good, he always had an excuse like, Oh, the person left, or these excuses of why I couldn't find or call or verify. But the resume looked great. But the reference, and I let slide, right? Okay. It seemed plausible.

It's funny you say the references. I don't trust that as far as I can throw it because anyone could put any Tom, Dick, or Harry on there. You call them. They're not going to put a reference down that would say anything bad about them. They're going to obviously pick people. It could be their brother for all you know, or their sister, who will obviously say nice things about them. So I think that the referencing is a total farce.

But if you ask around, it's so interesting because I did pick the wrong people, and then people said, I could have told you once I let them go. They're like, Why don't you just ask me? And I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know. Do you know what I found recently now because of the internet, the World Wide Web? Yes. If someone talks a big game and then you can't find anything about them online in terms of... I'm not talking social media. I'm talking in business stuff. I agree. Online. That's a red flag.

Red flag for sure. If you don't have a LinkedIn profile and you're trying to get a job, red Red flag.

Red flag. Amen. I also feel, and tell me if you agree, that a lot of times it's a gut thing, right? I can meet people recently, even, who we were saying who have the perfect pedigree. They went to Wharton, they did this, they did that. And then I met someone who barely even has a college, no college, have a high school diploma, but they have such grit and they're so motivated, I'd hire that person any day of the week over the person that looks perfect.

A hundred %. I could not agree more. I think when you're looking at who to hire, and actually I put in specific interview questions that now I use because I want to write them down. I mean, now I'm- Tell us. Yes. I mean, listen, it's like, what is one thing that I would learn about you three months from now that I don't know, that I wouldn't learn just in the interview? Or what would your previous boss say is one thing they want to change about you? Because that will give you insight into things that they may or may not be good at. Or who's someone that you admire? Because is likely that's the person that they aspire to be like. So I give a list of questions that are not so surface level, like actually trying to understand if you had a team, what would that team say that they would want to change about you? And it really makes you think because they have to tell you something that is not favorable for them. Right.

And also, I think that the idea that... I think it was in the book or something I was watching or reading about you. You were mentioning how you're not going to find your perfect job by just throwing in a resume, right? It's personal relationships. You're not hiring someone based on... Because it was like, resume number 27, right? Usually, it comes from a referral.

Yeah, I think 85% of jobs are coming from referrals. Referrals. Someone in their network, someone that knows someone. And honestly, if someone comes to me and they recommend someone, I'm more likely to take that meeting. Absolutely. Even I went on investment. I max out on current investments. But if you are someone I know and you come- You better say that because everyone's going to get you up.

I know.

I'm currently on a pause. But to be honest, it's not true. Because if you came to me and you said, Hey, I'm investing in this company and we're friends, I'd be like, Okay, I'll look at the deal.

A hundred %. Because it's like your network is your networth in a way. I hate that sentence, but it's the truth. You trust the people that are within your group. Right. And then what about... Which is interesting because what do you think of mentors?

I love. I talk a lot about mentorship. First of all, I think 93 % of self-made millionaires have a mentor, first of all, which is amazing. So if you want to make millions, if you don't have a mentor, it's time to get one. Think of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, or Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs, or Luke Skywalker and OP1 Kenobi. Think of people that every single person I know that is successful has a mentor. Say you're not an entrepreneur. Say you're just in a corporate job? People in corporate jobs are five times more likely to be promoted if they have a mentor than those that don't. So simple.

You know what I think the problem is? People get caught up in having this fancy mentor, this Rockstar mentor. Oh, unless I get Mark Cuban from the Shark Tank, I don't want a mentor. He was saying, how many people hit him up a day, an hour to be his mentor. But you can find a mentor that that is down the street or within your network who's just doing just a little bit better than you or done better than you that can help guide you and actually care about you.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think we look, to your point, to someone that's so far and actually They may not be the best mentor because they did it 20 years ago. You want someone that did it two years ago. I agree. And that they can help you. And honestly, I have so many incredible mentors in my beverage company because I don't know what I'm doing.

Right. And you're learning as you go.

I'm learning as I go. But the faster I can learn. And so people that, yes, I've got one that's 20 years in beverage. I also have one that's two, two years ahead of me that's crushing it. And so I call them all the time. And I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? Always getting great advice. So it doesn't have to be someone so far ahead of you. It could be someone down the street that's opening up a new... That has a store.

I also think you're... And I was going to say something. As you were saying that about the two years, I was going to say something that I think that I've recognized and I've noticed. I think the older you get, unfortunately, the more stuck in your ways you get and more regimened you are. I'm speaking for a friend. No, I'm joking. But what I was going to say is the people that I've learned the most from in the last few years are these new, hot, young entrepreneurs who are doing it differently. Because what worked 10 years ago doesn't work anymore. Oh, my gosh. Even what worked five years ago doesn't work anymore. Right. So what I think is a really good thing to tell people, or what I tell people when they ask me is, don't look at your peer to peer like someone who's done it 10 years ago. Look who's doing it right now or who's on the up and coming. Get in with those people because they know what's hot, what's working. They know social media, they know digital, they know technical, they know AI better. So if you're somebody who's in middle age, and I'm being totally honest, I think the best piece of advice is get a mentor who's younger you.

Yes, I love that. But the reality is you both bring a strength to the table because those individuals also need someone that knows how to actually scale a business with the operational infrastructure that it takes in order to truly be successful. So how do you complement each other? I think that's a really important thing.

100 %. I think that it's very myopic to think, okay, well, I have to pick... The word mentor usually assumes that the person has to be 20 years older than you. But I'm just going to change that whole thing and say that I think the word mentor has to have nothing to do with age and whatever. It could be younger. It could be somebody who's innovative and knows. There's One of these guys that I work with, he's 29 years old, and I pooh-poohed his whole thing like, Oh, this is how I learned all this a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, he's going to hit 100 million in his product now, two years later. He is so I mean, way smarter than I actually thought and gave him credit for because I thought to myself, Oh, no, no, no. I was very rigid and myopic in what I was thinking. So just be open-minded. You'd be shocked.

Yes, I agree. And there's so many biases that we carry with us that are limiting our potential because to your point, we see, Oh, how could they know? But they do know. They do know. I think I'm smart enough to know that I don't know anything. So I think if you can... Exactly. And this is where I talk I've heard about a lot asking for help and being okay that you don't know everything. I'm not the smartest person in the room. I know what I know, and I'm very good at that, but I also know what I don't know, and I know I don't know everything. So now I'm going to try to reach out and find the people that are better than me To your point, in social media, in whatever it is that their skill is focused on, let's find them and build a great team.

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It's easier to build a brand or build a business or start when you have that safety net, when you have money to play with? What do you suggest? And I'm not telling you... I'm saying you go to the Farwa's market, all those things, which, by the way, that also costs money. It costs money for space. What do you tell people about money? If you don't have money to start, how do you get money? How do you start when you don't have that type of safety net of money?

I didn't start with much. I did have a loan from my grandmother. But I think it's a start- Your granny, your granny, nanny. Yes, granny, nanny. Start where you are with what you have. And so look around. I mean, it's never been easier to start a company because of the Internet, artificial intelligence. You can actually create entire pitch deck in 90 seconds. I mean, this is insane, right? You can do financial models. When I started, I was on a dial-up internet connection where it beeped and stuff. It was very, very hard. And so I think you can create a lot and get to market with very minimal investment and cost. And obviously, I understand from a CPG perspective, trying to get that minimum viable product. But I also think now with such a global world, we're able to do that much quicker and much more efficiently with less capital.

Yeah. So you're saying... I also think, though, people don't have to... What we're saying, reinventing the wheel. We don't have to start big. We can do little things that we can afford and then iterate as as we go, right? Yes.

And I always say, don't quit your day job. If you got a day job that pays a lot of money. Every day is 24 hours. You got eight hours to work your current job, 8 hours to work on your side hustle or whatever it is, 8 hours to sleep. I don't know what you're using your 8 hours for. But to be honest, if you're just working 40 hours, you're not going to be a millionaire. That is not enough time in order to actually create the dream and the life that you want it. You actually have to put in more time.

I think that's also the fallacy I see, right? People think they can have work-life balance. If I hear that word again, I'm going to puke because there's no such thing as work-life balance. I need to grind to make it. I mean, be like, Oh, that's so past day to say the word hustle and grind. It's what it is. Hard work and time is what gets you from A to B to Z. People think, Oh, I can just wake up and have my matcha and do my five-hour morning routine and then work for 36 hours. And then they're wondering why they're not crushing life and why their career is stagnant or their business is not taking off. You have to put in a lot of hours. Yes.

If you're going to work an average job, you're going to have an average life.

And if you even work below those average hours, you're going to have a below average life.

You know what?

I think- And that's fine.

But That's fine.

But be honest.

Be honest with yourself. I agree.

Be honest with yourself. This is what I think the problem is. I think there's such mixed messages. And because of social media, people are seeing manifesting your life. Well, listen, you can manifest all you want, but if you're not laser-focused and working your ass off, good luck to you.

Yes, I agree. I tell my team, it's like, ask, believe, work hard, then the 99% and then receive. I love the manifestation. I'm 100%, but the 99% and the work hard part It's like where the magic happens.

100 %. And it drives me crazy. And the best thing is, don't believe everything you see, because a couple of my friends who are on social media who are the ones preaching manifestation, they work like dogs. They're working I'm like, they don't have a life. They're not working out. They don't have kids. They're working 24 hours on their manifestation because they want to be successful. So I think you have to know, you got to be realistic with what actually moves the needle and not just listen to some random influencer who tells you that you can just believe and vision, and it's going to work for you. Not happening.

I completely agree. And that's honestly why I wanted to write the book, because everything looks perfect. Everyone's success on the internet. And the reality is the messy middle, and I talk about it, is where everything else is happening.

Totally.

It's like no one's talking about it. So let's talk about how hard it is. Let's talk about the grind. Let's talk about the late nights, the early mornings, the times when I want to quit, the times when I don't even think I'm going to make it out of bed. Why don't we talk about that?

Because it's not pretty, and it doesn't look nice on social media. Listen, social media is like a highlight reel, right? You're seeing them doing their little saunas and cold plunges and then having their six-pack. Meanwhile, most of those people are on Ozempic. They're starving themselves. And they've also gotten a tummy tuck. Because this is what it is, though. But people are not honest or even though they may know that psychologically, they are unable to believe it. And they are believing these people, and then they're killing themselves in other ways. So that's why I like things. I like the name of the book. I think it's great. And I like when people talk about the Messy middle because that's exactly what life really is.

It really is. And it's fun because I'm in so many companies right now, and I share a lot about them in the book. Not I sold for 235 million at the end of the journey, but I'm in it right now going through the ups and downs and the roller coaster of entrepreneurship with so many companies. I felt that now is a good time to share it while I'm going through it. I know, I guess for me, knowing I've already, I've gone through it. Yeah, 100 %. I have confidence. I came out the other side. It's okay to now share. Let's just talk about all the chaos. I mean, some of the stories in the book, you can't even believe actually happened.

I love that. But someone like you, again, this is where I always think to myself, is it innate or can you learn it? You made your money, right? You've done so much great things. You've been so successful professionally, but yet you're still hungry. Can you teach hunger? I think that the other thing is not everybody's built and made to be a hungry entrepreneur, and that's okay.

That is okay. But don't kid yourself.

Don't kid yourself.

It is okay, but I wrote this book for the high achieving individuals that want to reach their greatest potential.

I didn't even tell you, Mike. My thing is, do you believe that we are either people who are just genetically more ambitious Can you teach drive? Can you teach ambition? Can you teach hunger? Because you already did it and you still seem to have it.

Yeah, I think it's a balance. Both, I'm very blessed. Obviously, growing up, I was hoping I'd never become an entrepreneur because I have two entrepreneurial parents, and it was always like, we can't pay a bill or something.

Both of them? I thought your dad was. Both of them.

My mom, too. Oh, my gosh. What did your mom do? She did corporate consulting on going into corporations and doing consulting. For a big firm? No, she's herself. For herself.

Oh, really?

Yes. That's hard on your own.

She was a corporate consultant.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. It was always just a constant fight. And they ended up getting divorced. So obviously, it's not good to have two entrepreneurs in one house because you never know what's going to happen. I said, I'm going to get a real job. I do not want anything to do with this entrepreneurial roller coaster ride. I want stability. What I learned is there is no corporate stability. Stability.

Yeah. Well, not anymore. No.

And I think the best bet you can make is a bet on yourself. But to your question, are you born with it? Can you learn it? I think it's probably a little both. I mean, only because I saw early on how hard it was and how much work it took. And so it ingrained in me a sense of normalized work ethic and failure. And I think that gave me an appetite for more risk. But anyone can hustle. Like, that That is something that you have to think in your mind, do you want to do that? Do you want to wake up? Is what you're doing, you're so passionate about, you cannot wait to get up and do it because that's what I do every day. It's so fun.

Yeah, and you like it. Because I want to circle back to something that I went on a tangent, probably, but something about doing it alone versus with a partner, because you talk about that a lot. How do you find someone who would be a perfect partner besides not not looking at the resume besides asking those questions? Should people have also a probation period to know? A lot of it's personality types together, too, isn't it?

Yeah. I think number one, when I look at it, and partner could be, let's just say in a business or in a relationship, I think it's really anchored in your values. And so what do I value versus what do you value? If we value health and wellness, we likely will be on the same page in terms of what is most important to us. If we value hard work, I mean, listen, I don't want to partner with someone where I'm working. You know when you're in school and you're working and you're doing a school project and you're doing all the work? Well, that's not a fun partnership. So it's trying to understand the values of someone before going into a partnership.

What happens if the people, and this happens, I see this a lot of times, you get along with someone really well, right? We click, we connect, we think we both love health and fitness. We love the same thing, and so we want to start a business. And then you realize pretty quickly that your strengths and my strengths are exactly the same. So we're missing the other part, right? We're both great with sales and marketing and the front facing. Well, who's going to be stuck doing the actual nitty-gritty, the operations, the spreadsheets? I see that happening a lot.

But that's an important part to hire the right team. So if I hire the team to complement your strengths and compensate for your weaknesses, and I think that's really important, and recognizing what are you truly good at? Because sometimes we then would say, Okay, well, I'm going to try to be good at the back-end, and you hate it.

And so you won't be good. And you're not good at it.

So you won't be good. Everyone's disappointed, and the partnership doesn't work. So really understanding, what are my strengths? How much time am I going to be able to give to this? How much money can I contribute to this? All these things, just like probably marriage. Before you get into a partnership, we should really have a conversation.

Because I think that's what I see a lot happening. People have the same strengths versus the- Because you like people like you, right? Exactly.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Do you see that all the time?

Yes, I see it all the time.

And then it fails, or does it not fail?

I think it fails if your expectation is you're going to be the other side of my coin, and you're actually, we're all supposed to have the same side. So I think that's where it fails. It's saying, no, I'm going to be me. And you're like, well, no, we have the same strengths, which is actually fine. But where's the third? Think of a stool, right? Three legs of a stool. Great. Me and you could be great, but we need the third leg, which is going to balance us to make sure that the back end is getting done.

Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything specific that I didn't ask you? Because I'm thinking like, I'm forgetting something. Am I? Or I have a question for you. While you're thinking about that, I want to know what is the most popular question that entrepreneurs ask you that they want to know about entrepreneurship?

Right now, it's about probably raising money.

For sure, raising money. Okay, so what do you say to them?

Well, I want to know what's your market traction.

Oh, just those three things.

Yeah. That's what you hear all the time. Yeah, all the time. And it's great. You should be looking to raise money. But do you have to? I mean, I started at my kitchen table with 10 grand. Listen, I think, again, people usually say, I'm looking for money, when the reality is they're looking for mentorship. That is what they need, not my money. My mentorship is 10 times better than my money, for sure.

That's a very true point. I think people assume that they need money, or they feel like that's the way to... I think also they just need help, guidance.

That's the mentorship. They just need to know, When I get here, what do I do? Have you been here? How do you negotiate that? Who can you connect me to? So it's not other people's money. It's other people's mentorship that you really need.

Are you mentoring anybody right now?

Oh my gosh, yes.

So many, actually. So many? How can you mentor so many? You know what?

Because I'm passionate about what they're doing. I'm passionate of them as people, and I like to see them succeed.

How many people are you mentoring? Probably five. So how do you have time to mentor five people? How much time are you spending? What structure is it? You know what?

I'm really good on the start or if somebody's wrong.

Oh, okay.

You call me in a crisis. I'm a great crisis person. I'm like, Oh, I can't figure out how to... I'm running out of money. I have a product problem. I have a team problem, like the operational problem. The problem. I'm really good at that. I'm able to give very clear instruction. I love my mentees. When I mentor them, they actually come back and say, I just did what you did. Now, what do I do next? I'm like, Oh, you're the best person for me in that. They listen. Yes, please don't ask me for advice if you're not going to take it.

That's in life, by the way. How annoying is it when someone takes and drains all your energy and time, and then they don't listen to you?

Right. But then you know how much fun it is when they do listen? I know. Then they come back and you're like, Oh, we see progress. Then I'm emotionally involved in your success.

Exactly.

Which is so fun.

That's 100% true. So then you see five people.

Yeah, but mentorship, I think, how do you view mentorship? For me, it's, are we setting you up for success? Have I given you whatever you need to be successful? So we're not talking every day.

No, no, no.

I mean, we're talking if you're in a period that you need help.

Right, right, right. Okay. And also, you're not necessarily an investor in all the people that you're mentoring. No. No, not that way. No, no.

I don't think... Honestly, I could be an investor, but no, I'm not. I'm just invested in you being successful.

That's amazing. Because you say that you do mostly tech, or you like to do tech besides this product, what do you think about the tech? Do you see, besides AI, any area that there is such extreme growth that people should be looking to get into in general?

I love health and longevity. That's a great- Preaching to the convertitor. I know, right? That's such a great place to be.

But it's, again, super noisy, again, like we talked about.

But if you're super passionate, then it makes a difference, right?

I wouldn't know how to do anything besides that. Even though, to your point, the tech stuff is clearly obvious that that's where the world is going and money. But I'm not interested in that. I love the health and fitness- You definitely shouldn't do it. Exactly. So I don't even bother. Yes. But if you tell me about another supplement that I need, which I don't, I may have a bazillion or another drink or another this. I just love that stuff.

Me too.

I I just love it. What other companies are you involved with besides Juni in this space of health and wellness?

Oh, my gosh. Well, I usually just use a lot of things. I'm going to invest in them, right? But I would. I think I look at them and I'm looking at new opportunities. I'm in a FemTech company called I'll prove with his female wellness. I love, obviously, there's great opportunities in a menopause space right now.

People love that.

I feel like it's hormonal space.

Isn't that overdone, though? That's what I was going to say. No, it's never over.

Listen.

I know. I know. I just finished saying- You got 10 people that pitch me the same idea.

It's always about execution. Oh, my gosh.

I know. I fall into the same trap that I talk about, right? I'm always like... And by the way, fitness apps, right? I had an app. I sold it years and years ago. And then people would come to me all the time with the same type of app, and I'd be like, it's like, aren't apps done? Meanwhile, then that company sold for a half a billion dollars. I'm like, I guess I was wrong. You know what I mean? And that happened 50 times. Yeah.

It's never too late.

It's never too late. And again, I have to take my own advice, your advice. Iteration, not innovation, execution. Everything is like everyone in their dog has a good idea. But then how do you execute is where the money is. Oh, my God.

And it's hard. So hard, right? But listen, it's hard in beverages, hard in beauty, it's hard in tech. Everything's like, choose your hard.

Exactly. Okay, we're going to leave with me asking you, what is your daily routine? What are your habits every day? We know your hustle.

Now we need to know your habits. Yeah, my hustle. I definitely hustle. I get up, I love... Let's see. I meditate. I've got a red light. I do the sauna. I work out. All in the morning? I love a green juice, have a protein shake. Yeah.

Okay, this is again, how long is that morning routine?

Oh, my gosh.

Well- Four hours?

No. I mean, because I'm in a 10-minute red light while meditating, while on a beamer mat. I'm doing three things at the same time.

So you're multitasking.

I'm multitasking my health and fitness. Then I work out, and then the sauna is right there. So I go in the sauna 20 minutes while I'm taking a phone call. I'd I would say I'm quite the- I love it. I'll be on the Peloton, taking a phone call. I'll take a phone call from anywhere.

Okay, so what time do you wake up in the morning, typically? I wake up at 6: 00. At 6: 00. Okay. And then give me a play by play between 6: 00 and 9: 00. Go.

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So wake up. My kids aren't up yet. So then I go in, I do the red light, I do the meditation.

What red light?

Are you doing the one that- They get the whole panel on a bed.

Oh, you have a bad panel?

Okay, that's a good one. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it.

And you do it for how long?

I do it for anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes, depending on what meditation I'm doing.

Do you have the one that's also on your face and you're lying on the bed?

Yeah, my face all the way.

No, but there's another one. Gabby Reece, shout out to her. She has this amazing red light at her house where it's like you put this thing on your face. I don't know what it's called. Remind me to call her after. You put it on your face and you're lying on it. It's amazing. You don't have that one?

No, I just have it. It's fully on. But I have a beamer mat, which is something from Europe, which is amazing. It's increasing your energy, which is amazing. So start there. Then When I... Well, then I get my kids up to go to school.

Yeah. So that's how they wake up.

They wake up about 6: 45. And so at that point- How old are your kids? They are four. So two six-year-old boys, identical, and two 11-year-old A boy and a girl.

Oh, my gosh. I have a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old, but you have two six-year-olds?

Yes. They're so cute.

Oh, my God. And two 11-year-olds? Yes. You're in the weeds, weeds. You're like that busy.

Yes, but we're running this... We run it like a company, How do you do it? It's very efficient. Okay. Yeah. So we get up. Yeah, but the kids are smart. Six-year-olds, they can make their own lunches. They can put them in bags. They know what they're doing.

You're preaching again to the convertor. Okay, so tell me- Yes.

Oh, my gosh. So then they'll go to school, and then I'll go to the gym, and then I'll do at least a 45, like a hit or Peloton or whatever I'm doing. You're doing a class? No, I have a personal trainer.

Okay. At the gym?

Nope. I'll do it right in my... I have my own home.

So we say you go to the gym, you go to your gym.

My gym is 10 steps from my house.

Okay. I thought you were going to eat from the house or something.

No, not leaving the house.

Everything's- In your house.

Floor efficiency.

I love it. Okay, so let me just get this straight. This is if I love. Okay, so you wake up around 6: 00, you go into your red light, then you go and do your... And then you do your meditation in the red light? Yeah. Okay. Then you get the kids- Get the kids up. And you give them breakfast or whatever? Yeah. And then you work out?

Yeah, and then I work out.

Okay. And how long you say 45 minutes work?

Yeah, it depends. I've been trying this EMS, which is like 20 minutes, and they're like- Oh, you like that thing? Well, you're working out at the same time that they're shocking you. I don't know. They say it's supposed It's supposed to be really good for you.

They say it. I know I've tried it many times. It's not enjoyable, though.

No, it's not enjoyable.

Yeah, it's not enjoyable.

It's not like I'm lying there doing nothing either. I'm doing squats and it's- Oh, it's hard.

Oh, it's hard.

Oh, I know. Very hard. But I thought if it's only 20 minutes, I could shave off some time. So I'm really looking at how to get more efficient.

Right. You're being very efficient.

And then I'll go in the sauna 20 minutes, which is right next to my gym. And then I have a green juice, I have a protein shake, What's in your protein shake? Oh, my God. Which one am I using now?

We know you use Momentous creatine.

I do Momentous. I put the creatine in.

Best creatine on the market.

I love that creatine, right?

It's so good. I think it's great.

I just got a hyperbaric chamber.

You did?

Yes. Do you like it? Oh, my gosh. Yes. But that takes more time. I hate those. So I'm really trying to know how to figure out how to integrate that into my lifestyle.

You can work in there if you want.

You can, but- What kind is it?

Is it the smaller one or the bigger one?

No, it's a big one. Two seats.

Oh, it's a big one. I don't like them. I don't like the way I feel in it. I get nauseous.

Well, that's why I can't. Yeah, me too. So I can't actually work in it. So people are like, Oh, you can work. I'm like, I can't work because I don't feel- You cannot. Right. I can't work. So that's a problem because I was thinking, I just work for a couple of hours, and that doesn't work.

Listen, some people, I don't have a problem with it. I'm nauseous in there. Me too. My ears are bothering me.

Yeah, me too. Well, because you're going- Down. Yeah, you're going down.

It's like a lot of pressure, right? It's a lot of pressure.

But it's It's supposed to be so good for you. It's supposed to be really good. I'm really into preventative health. I mean, let's not take every suggestion you have.

I have a million. I mean, a million. So then you do that or not always? Right.

Not always. I usually do that later in the day.

But you're having a smoothie. You're not having It's literally a protein shake that I drink faster than 60 seconds, and then I ready to roll. Yeah. See, that doesn't fill me up. You don't mind? You don't think- No, it feel pretty good. You do? Okay. And then what? Do you work out every day? Do you do weights Every day? Every second day?

I probably do weights 2-3 times a week. But I work out every day. It's so good for my mind. Listen, I'm not winning on the Peloton. I'm just there just to get some- Who cares? Yeah. We're not in a competition, so I'm like, I'm I'm just trying to actually... It's so good for my brain to just get focused and feel good. I know that helps me just get in the zone.

I think, honestly, to me, exercise at this point is not necessary. I'm not trying to be in a bikini competition. No. It's foundational for my well-being, my focus. I'm way more productive. I'm way more alert. I'm way more on point just in everything when I work out. Me too. And I'm not I don't need to... I'm not going to be in the Olympics next week, but I think it's very- But it's great for my mental health. I think it's the number one. It's the number one longevity hack in the world. You could be doing every supplement, do the hyperbaric, you could do the sauna. But if you're not exercising daily, forget about it.

If you don't have your health, you have nothing. What's the point of making millions if you can't enjoy it?

Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. Okay, guys, the book is called Mistakes That Made Me a Million there by Kim Porel. This was so enjoyable. Oh, I loved it. This book is really good. Like I said, I have to say this because I'm not just saying this because she's sitting across from me, but it really is. It's a really great read, great information, great nuggets. Anyway, good luck with this book.

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

I'm so happy to see you, and we'll see each other in a couple of days. I know. I can't wait. I know, right? All right, guys. Oh, and you also go to Kim Pareil. Is it Kim Pareil on Instagram?

Yeah, Kim Pareil.

Yeah, pretty easy. You can find her. All right. Bye.