Transcript of Rosie O'Donnell New

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Good Hang. Boy, we have a great guest today. Rosie O'Donnell. Rosie is here and we are going to have such a great conversation. We always do when we talk to Rosie. We, we're going to talk about so many good things. We're going to talk about her getting discovered and, and being on Star Search. We're going to talk about her incredible one-woman show and, and how it felt to do it and, and, and, and what it brought up for her. We're going to talk about the the idea of standing up for people, standing up for yourself, and sometimes how expensive that can be. And we're gonna talk about her filling in and hosting Jimmy Kimmel Live next week and how excited she is for that. There's so many good things happening right now. As Rosie says, she is re-famous. So we're gonna get into that today. But before we do, we are gonna talk to somebody who knows our guest who wants to speak well behind their back. And we have a great, great person joining us today, Cynthia Nixon, actress, activist. Cynthia, well, look, you know Cynthia, okay?

Gilded Age, Sex and the City, the show, and Just Like That. Also in so many incredible Broadway shows. Cynthia's a giant, and she's gonna chat with us today and give us a question. Hi, Cynthia!

Woo-hoo-hoo!

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Get up.

What do you say?

I like other one who wears a really good hat. Hey!

Hey, Cynthia!

How are ya? Woo!

I'm falling down.

I'm falling down. There we go.

Oh, nice.

I got a lot of headroom, don't I?

It's kind of nice books in the back.

Okay.

It looks smart.

Maybe I'll sit on a pillow. Maybe that'll help me like I used to do at the barber when I was a little girl.

Yeah, I still sometimes have to put a little pad or pillow in when I'm driving a vehicle.

You do.

Sometimes.

I love it.

A little booster. Thank you so much for getting on and for talking about Rosie.

It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. One of my favorite top most favorite topics, Rosie O'Donnell.

Now you guys have been friends for a long time.

We have been friends for a long time. We have been friends from early Sex and the City days when Kristin Davis and I were at the Joni Mitchell concert at the Hammerstein Ballroom on 34th.

And Rosie and her wife were seated in front of us, and Rosie turned around, and she was like, "Oh, look, it's the Sex and the City girl." When we talk today, I mean, one of the things that is so disarming and charming about Rosie is she has really always been herself in real time in front of us. She has allowed us to see her real self. You know, her real self all the time. She's very authentically herself. Of the many, like, you know, parasocial relationships that we all have with people we think we know, Rosie is definitely somebody—

We really do know Rosie. We really do know her. And she's— and I think she just came out of the womb that way. I really— you know, my favorite Rosie story that I tell at the drop of a hat is when she was 3 years old and her family moved, and it was chaos, and they moved to a little cul-de-sac, And nobody was paying attention, you know, whatever. And she walked out of her door, and she went right across to the very next house. It wasn't like traffic. It was a cul-de-sac, you know? And she rang the doorbell, and the woman of the house entered, you know, answered the door, and looked down, and there was little Rosie O'Donnell, who said to her, "I'm 3. You got anyone in there who's 3?" And the woman's like, As a matter of fact, I do. And I think that woman is, you know, that little girl that she— that came, then came to the door to play was, you know, still Rosie's, like, best friend, so.

Really?

Yeah. Wow.

That's an amazing story.

Yeah. I'm 3. You got anyone in there who's 3?

I'm gonna talk to her about a lot of things today, including her show, her new show, which you just saw. She's performing a one-woman show.

We actually, we saw it in Ireland. We were in Ireland and we went to see her there, and then we saw it again. And it's, of course, it's— It's different, and there's different parts left out, and there's different parts added, and it's more polished, but it's so much the same show. It's so delicious, you know? And I said to her, it's like an hour and 15 minutes or something, hour and a half, whatever it is. And I was like, "I wanted it to be 4 hours. I just didn't want it to end." I didn't want the— I didn't want the stories to end, and I didn't want the time, you know, spent with you to end in that way.

Hmm. That's a great review, that somebody wants it to be longer. Um, now, anything you think I should ask Rosie today? We're asking our guests, like, you know, any, any question— big, small, important, silly, anything.

Right. So I tried to think of this. It's very hard to think of it, but I thought of 3. And I'm sorry, I didn't think of one.

No, that's great.

I thought, you know, how does she feel now? And how is she dealing with the fact that she is arguably the most eligible lesbian bachelor on the scene at the moment. How is she dealing with all the people trying to fix her up and the people trying to fix her up with themselves? You know? Another question, which is more of a me question, is like, you know, all of us Sex and the City girls, we did so many sex scenes, often with, you know, quite a lot of clothes off and that kind of thing. But, you know, Rosie and I had a bed scene, not exactly a sex scene, but a post-coital scene. What was that like for her? You know what I mean?

What was that like for her?

What was it like for you?

I mean, it was a little strange, but it was so lovely because the part that she played opposite me on And Just Like That, who was this nun who was having her first sexual experience with anybody, you know, she's so funny, Rosie, but she didn't play it for laughs. She played it with such— tenderness and hope and excitement. And it just, of course, it made it even more funny.

Yeah.

Yeah. But I guess the question that I really want to ask her is, you know, kind of what you were saying, she is so important to so many people. And we were out the other night, and I'll tell this story very briefly, but it's a much longer story about my friend whose mom died, and she wanted to be buried in her Rosie O'Donnell sweater. Sweatshirt, and he didn't think that was really appropriate. He thought she had to wear something a little more, you know, dressed up. But he took the— he cut out the Rosie on her Rosie O'Donnell sweatshirt, and he went the morning of the open casket funeral, and she had a— his mom had a rosary in her hands, and my friend pried his mom's hands apart and took the rosary out and put it by her side and put in this, this rolled up little thing of Rosie's name from her sweatshirt. And so that she was holding onto it. And my friend told Rosie the story, and of course, Rosie was very touched. But Rosie was not thrown. Do you know what I mean? I feel like the amount of people for whom she looms this large in life and death, and at the moments, and like, wanting her to be there with you.

Why does she think she was put on the earth? Like, what is this quality that she has that she is so deeply— important to people. And, you know, of course, there are people who revile her, for whom she is important as their enemy. But like, you know, what did God or the universe, or, you know, put her on Earth to do? Because, boy, she has so much impact on people.

That is so beautifully said. She definitely is a person that creates big feelings in people. And then, being her friend, I'm sure you've seen people bring those big feelings to her. Like, what do you do with all of those big feelings? Like, you're only one person, and I'm sure there's days where you can absorb it, and you can synthesize it, and other days where you have to just kind of, like, leave it at the door.

But also, what is there about herself that brings that out of people? You know?

And it's gonna be interesting to see if Rosie has an answer to it, 'cause I totally agree. She invokes and evokes all this really interesting stuff in people. And that's a beautiful story too. What a beautiful story. Yeah, I know. Isn't it?

Unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. And it's much longer and more complicated, but that's the gist. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I thank you. These are great questions. And these are perfect, Cynthia.

Perfect.

Thank you.

This is perfect. A perfect little amuse-bouche before we get into the Rosie meal. And I know she will be thrilled that we talked, and as am I. So I really appreciate your time.

Well, have a great time asking Rosie all the questions that everybody wants to ask her.

Thanks, Cynthia.

Thank you so much. Bye. Take care. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Why does it feel like summer ends as soon as it begins? One day the sun is finally shining bright, and the next thing you know, there's football on TV again. It's time to soak up the last dog days of summer, and that means staying connected to what you love. Visible Wireless can help you do just that. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. So you can give yourself yourself a treat before the summer ends. Visible is more than just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to always keep you connected with no contract to tie you down. Switch today at visible.com. Plans start at $25 a month, or get the premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code HANG. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

Wahoo! Rosie, how are you?

I'm really good. It's really good to see you.

Can I just say that you were one of the kindest people to Clay when you took us to see the screening of Inside Out 2, one of their favorite movies. Oh, and she still talks about it.

They were so sweet that day, and you and I, I think, were crying together that day because that movie is I mean, all of Pixar movies are a whopper, but that one is—

No, Inside Out is something else. It's like every adult should watch it like 5 times a day just to remember what it's like to be a kid and what it feels like.

What it's like to be a human person.

Yeah, you captured it. It was beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

Rosie, thanks for saying that. I've been so excited about you coming in today. I love talking to you. I've gotten the privilege of getting to know you a little bit over the years and talk to you. And I was just kind of thinking about what we were going to talk about today. I just feel like to like kind of sum up the work you always do is about making people feel less alone, basically.

Isn't that the truth? That's what I think being alive is all about.

Yeah.

Right. Tell your truth. Let everyone hear it.

Yeah.

And it'll help people.

Yeah.

It doesn't help when people keep secrets. It doesn't help. You know, some people say, oh, you tell too much. And I'm like, I suppose for some people it would be too much. But for me, you know, coming from a childhood that had a lot of secrets and a lot of stuff going down, that, you know, wasn't kosher. I like to be able to go, well, this is what's happening. And yeah, this is what— so I always tell the truth. Sometimes it gets me in trouble, right? Like they asked me on one show, they said, what, who are your guests on Kimmel? I start naming them. I see the publicist like pulling her hair out in the other room. They're like, don't say it. You know, I'm like, okay, okay. I don't know the rules. I'm sorry.

What is it like being in— you've done so many interviews. You've been on this side. What did you learn as— as an interviewer that now you remember when you're being interviewed?

I don't really look at it that way. I look at it just like listening is the bottom line to everything. To acting, to hosting, to interviewing.

That's true.

Listen. And the ones that allow people to complete their sentence and are not looking at the notes for what's the next one, where's the next place. You know, when I did The Tonight Show with Leno, okay, so you be me and I'll be Leno, okay?

Yeah.

So he'd go, He'd— you see him looking down and then they come back. He's like, "Oh, so Rosie O'Donnell. So listen, I just want to tell you, you're really good at, you know, doing this movie part." And then you'd see him look at the camera over here. And when the single was on me, he'd be looking down at the note for the next— He didn't even make eye contact.

Have you ever acted with someone like that?

Yes.

I've acted with people who—

Shall remain nameless.

Exactly.

Right.

Who, when it is not their coverage, they are literally not looking at you. And it's really shocking. It actually makes you feel very lonely.

Yes. And I've had, you know, there's one who I'll tell you when we're done, that was so selfish that I was like, "This is not the spirit of acting in an ensemble. This is not the spirit." You know, it's almost like when you're in a great improv group, you never say no in the scene. You have to keep the scene going.

Yeah.

Or, I mean, this has happened too in projects where you, You know, especially in comedy where you try something or say something and then someone else just takes it.

Yes. That's happened to me too.

Me too.

And I've been, and it's, you know, bad behavior. I know you're this way too. I, I, I think what, like, bad behavior and conflict in general is something, at least I feel from you, Rosie, like you don't shy away from it. You're not afraid of it, but I feel like you also are a little, constantly shocked by it. Bad behavior.

I am.

Me too.

I'm stunned by it.

It stuns me.

Yeah.

In real time.

It stuns me too. Not only in acting, but in politics. Like, I go, is everyone looking at the same speech he just gave?

Yes.

Did we hear what he just said?

That's right.

He is asleep again, ladies and gentlemen.

Right.

Like, what is it going to take?

Right. And the looking around and the almost the gaslighting that's afterwards is so stressful to me. Rubio saying, I've never seen him fall asleep.

I'm like, Oh, dear God in heaven. It's beyond willful blindness. It's really like cult programming.

It's— and that kind of stress when something's being— when someone's behaving badly, whether it's on set, whether it's if you're running the country, whether it's like you're ordering coffee and nobody says anything is excruciating to me. And I think it is to you too.

It is to me. And even with, you know, the political stuff, people say, why do you do it? I do it because I feel like I owe something to this country because of my life and career. That I started out on Long Island with a dead mother and a father who was compromised in many ways. And that I, you know, overweight, gay, became whatever this thing is that I became and lived this life of gross excess because of it, you know? And I don't feel— I feel like shutting up now when we're on the precipice of disaster is the way to say thank you to a country and a nation that provided me with an unbelievable life. So I feel morally obligated.

Mm-hmm. And do you feel, Rosie, like that feeling of being that kid, that person that, like, has to point out and speak out, just, you were born with it?

Well, the stories that my parents used to tell me was that I always went to the adults. I always wanted to entertain the adults and to have conversations. With the adults.

You're a middle child.

I'm the middle. I'm the oldest girl. I'm named after my mother.

Yeah.

And interestingly enough, I was always a highly sensitive person, to the point that it's almost debilitating.

Uh-huh.

And when I was little, I would get in trouble for watching the news because Saigon was being evacuated, my mother had just died, and there was a push-up stairway for the last planes out, and it was all live on TV. And there was a young teenage boy who kicked a woman. Now, they were all trying to survive.

Yeah, right.

It was horrible.

Yeah.

She fell off of the stairway and out of frame because the frame was locked. And we never find out what happened. I start sobbing. And my father was so mad and so overwhelmed that I would be crying that he said, "You're not allowed to watch the news anymore. You're not allowed." "Go to your room." And so, I think I was too much.

But it's really interesting, Rosie, 'cause you're a combo of a highly sensitive person, and you're also tough.

Well, you know what, Amy? I'm not that tough.

You're not that tough.

No. I cry a lot. Yeah. If someone else is crying, I start to cry.

Right.

I, like, I have to, like, have a shield up. And that is definitely armor. But when people get to know me, they often say, "God, you're nothing like I thought Rosie O'Donnell was gonna be." And I'm like, "You know, in good ways and bad ways." When I would start to date people, you know, they expected me to be like, "Hey, here I am, Cady Lang in the bedroom. Let's go!" You know? And I'm like, "Do you wanna cuddle? Could we watch something on TV?" I never know if someone's hitting on me. I never have a clue. Unless you have a neon sign that says, "I'm hitting on you. I would like to date you," I am clueless. To it.

Well, Rosie, do you think that you are— 'Cause you've talked really openly about Clay. Do you think you're neurodivergent?

I, you know, when I was first on my show, Bill Gates was doing a large study in the '90s at the University of Seattle about autism. This is back when there wasn't all that much research going on. And they would call every few months the first year and say, "We really would like to test you." Because of my ability to recite Yes. Lyrics and to like, you know, the Primatene Mist commercial.

Yeah.

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You have a really interesting way of sorting information.

Yes.

And sorting emotional information.

Correct. And I think that, you know, my autistic child has taught me patience and introspection, you know, to be more introspective about my own stuff going on.

Totally. I mean, it's, I think it's one of the beautiful things about that community in general and just the idea of a spectrum in general is that in the same way, like gender and sexuality for my generation, like, I feel like, like, like your generation was about, there are different ways. There are different ways to express your sexuality and to who you love. I feel like my gen was like, you can have a family however you want. And then the gen, like, millennials are like, gender is a construct that we're all trying— like, everyone is like breaking apart all these things we think are very true.

It's so true. And my daughter, who's 23, she was showing me pictures of this party that they had at their college, you know, with 8 girls in one house in a college. And I saw 2 of the girls kissing and I'm like, oh my God, I didn't know they they were gay. She's like, Mom, they're not gay, they were just kissing at a party. I'm like, that doesn't make you gay anymore. What makes you gay then?

You don't know.

We don't know. But yeah, it was, you know, and when I started, I didn't think there was any way in the world that you could be an out lesbian person and be successful in show business. That's right. Because Ellen wasn't out.

Yep.

Will Grace wasn't on. I remember on my show they said there's going to be a show where it's a gay guy and his female best friend. And I said, "That'll last 3 weeks, just like Love, Sidney." Now, you don't— Do you remember that?

I remember Love, Sidney. You do. Yes.

Tony Randall.

Tony Randall.

Tony Randall had a lover, and they never said it was his lover, but there was a picture of him above the fireplace. And sometimes he would look lovingly and sadly at the loss. And the story in the show was that he was gay-bashed. It was a hate crime that took his life. And I remember being in church and hearing the priest talk about how horrible this show was. And how, you know, and then they ripped it off the air. It was off the air and it was, you know, a wonderful show. And I thought, "Wow, you can't tell anyone." But I lived a life where everyone knew. Because I had kids. And, you know, I had a kid when I was 33. From that moment on, I was out. 'Cause you'd go to the doctor with your partner, you would, you know, and I would always go to the Emmys with Kelly, now Lois Smith, my wonderful—

I know you said she used to walk in between the two of you.

And you know, did you remember what she looked like? She looked just like my nana. She was tall and stately, and she always wore a bright red coat. And she had been Marilyn Monroe's publicist during the Joe DiMaggio years. Wow. You know, when I went and my show was starting and I got a publicist in New York, I went to meet her.

Yeah.

And I said, "Listen, I'm gay, and I don't imagine ever saying it because I'd rather fight for kids who are abused, who don't have a voice, than fight for adults who, you know, are—" And, you know, And that was my rationale at the time. And she was very grateful that I told her, but then proceeded to say to Kelly all the time, "Get on the other side. Get on the other side." Because she didn't want anyone to know.

I don't think people realize, like, you know, like, young people that I talk to are surprised that, you know, I didn't have any openly gay people in my high school. No gay and lesbian alliance, no openly gay teachers. No. No one was openly gay.

And if they were, like the art teacher, this beautiful, man who was a teacher, and I used to call him Dad. And he was so lovely and so great and so gay, so flamboyant. And the gym teacher who years later in Vegas, I was at a lesbian bar and who's there? I was like, "Give me a high five, Nance! We're together in a lesbian bar like I dreamed when I was in 9th grade!" You know? Yes. I mean, Paula Pell, you know Paula Pell?

I love her. Yes. She was on here talking about that. And one of the things that really moved me that I didn't think about as a straight person is that because at the time she had to be closeted, relationships ended like they did for everybody else, and no one got to grieve publicly. You had to, like, you had to be crying in your room that you and your best friend weren't hanging out anymore.

Well, the thing that got me the most, 'cause I was with a woman who has recently passed away, her name was Corbi. She was a bunch of years older than me, probably like 10 or 12 years older than me. And I was— It was one of my first relationships, and I was with her for 7 years. And when we broke up, up, um, the pain of it was so intense, and I couldn't even tell my family. Yeah, right. My family didn't want to hear about it, even though they knew I was living with her and they knew that now I wasn't. No one brought it up. Nobody said, are you okay? And that is very, very isolating and lonely. Yeah. And it makes you feel that you're sort of doomed by being gay. Yeah. Which is no different than being left-handed. Or having blue eyes. Like, people don't choose it. Who would choose it? It's not an easy life, but it's a true life if you know that that's who you are, you know?

Yeah. Well, you talk about this idea of truth, which really matters to you. I love when, you know, you've talked about how Clay and your relationship has, like, kind of drawn you closer to that, keeps drawing you closer to that. Yes. And you just finished an incredible run of your show, Common Knowledge. Can you tell us where that's at? Where the title Common Knowledge comes from, 'cause I love this.

This is a true story. So, she, um, they, they, and it's a they/them. That's the pronouns that they choose, but it's very hard, honey.

I know, and I love that you're constantly correcting in real time, like we all do. It's really beautiful.

And it really matters to them. And I know it matters to them. And so, when I would— they first told me that it was they/them, I tried my best, but I kept saying she. And so, they wrote on a cardboard paper, "they," and then they would hold it up above their head every time I said "she," like John Cusack in Say Anything with the boombox just staring at me, you know? And so, I took her to my cousin's tattoo shop with the "they" in her handwriting, and I had it tattooed on my wrist so that I would never forget, that it would remind me. And I thought she'd be very touched, and she didn't give two shits. She could not care less. And I just said "she." I just did it again. In the they story, I messed it up. But yeah, but the common knowledge comes from— we were watching Jeopardy!, which I no longer do with her because it was really hard on my ego. And, you know, I had won Celebrity Jeopardy! once against— Oh, you did? Against Ed Begley Jr. and Robert Guillaume. So it was Benson and the very smart Ed Begley Jr.

And those are smart people. Little bit younger than them, so they couldn't really work the button because you can't buzz in till the light goes on.

You are the second Celebrity Jeopardy! winner I've had here. Ike Barinholtz won, and it's all about the button.

It's about the buzzer. And knowing the answers. And knowing the answers. But I always pride myself, I used to watch it every day. So she's about 8 when this happens. And I believe Alex Trebek was still alive. And in my mind, it was Alex Trebek who said, "And the answer is..." The deepest point ever recorded on Earth. And they look up from their iPad and go, "What is the Mariana Trench?" And I'm like, "What is the Mariana Trench?" "Oh, it's the deepest part of the Earth ever recorded, Mom. It's near Guam. Come on, that's common knowledge." And I said, "Oh, what does common knowledge mean?" This little 8-year-old, right? "It's things everyone should know, but not everyone does," she said— they say. And I'm like, "Okay, can you give me some examples?" And I kid you not, This is what they said. The Appalachian Mountains have been around since before Saturn had its rings. Common knowledge. Flamingos can drink boiling hot water without incurring any internal damage. Common knowledge. Cleopatra was alive closer to the advent of the iPhone than the completion of the Pyramids of Giza. Common knowledge. I was like, what the hell?

And I asked her, I asked her, I said, I said, "Honey, where do you keep that info?" And they said, "I have a file folder, and I like to bring it out at inappropriate times." I'm like, "Way to go. Way to go, kiddo." You know?

And so, this title for this show, your one-woman show. Yes. What was it like, I mean, physically, to do a one-woman show, Rosie? That's a lot. Exhausting. I bet. What do you do to prep? How do you manage your— 'Cause I'm always trying to figure out how people are managing their energy.

Well, I will tell you that when, you know, we did this sort of as a proof of concept because I had done it in Europe. And it really is a love letter to Ireland and to Clay. You know, that's what it is. And there's very little politically. There's a little thing about why we moved and Trump, but it's not the focus of the show in any capacity. And it really is about this love letter. And we had to change some things because I didn't know if they would get the Irish, you know, the intense Irish stories that they get over in Ireland and Scotland. 'Cause you did it first at Edinburgh? I did it in Edinburgh a year ago.

A year ago, yeah.

And then I did it in Dublin and went to Scotland, went to Sydney, Australia, did the Opera House, which was unbelievable. Wow. Really wonderful. And, you know, there were two parts of it that were very emotional. One is when I open on the day my mother died. The show opens with that. And there's dead silence in the audience. And then I say, "I know what you're thinking. Did I buy the wrong ticket?" Isn't this a comedy show? I didn't want to come to Angela's Ashes: The Musical. Come on, Rosie! You know? So, I throw that in, and then I go, "Don't worry! There'll be fun. There'll be jokes." You know? And at the very end, I tell the last time I saw my mother. So, it's bookended by these very emotional parts that when I first started doing it, I couldn't do them without crying. And as an actress, you know, if you had a scene where you have to talk about— You don't want to cry in the scene. You want to fight the crying in the scene. Right? So, I would— So I just started to think of it as an actress, like, "Okay, I'm an actress.

I'm not me. This is not my mom. This is— Let me just tell this as if I was a character in a movie." And I was finally able to perform it.

You first went to Ireland right after your mom died. Yes. First time. Yes.

First time on a plane. And it—

Donegal? Donegal, yes. Then, you know, I would imagine that would be associated with a lot of trauma. But did you find, when you were there, like, what made you return to Ireland? 'Cause it feels like it would be attached to this terrible moment in your life, and you'd almost, like, never want to go again. But you found something in that visit.

Well, I still have cousins there. And so, when my father took us there, I didn't understand why he did it. It was the height of the Troubles. It was 1973. There was tremendous unrest. And Donegal is very close to the Northern Irish border. Mm-hmm. And my cousins, My cousins were wily little guys, and they were in their late, late teens. And so they got us in trouble. You know, they would shoot cap guns and try to provoke the British Army, and helicopters would come above where we were playing, and they'd go, "Hide!" And, you know, and now I look back and I go, "That was taking our lives into our hands." But I think I realized as I was writing this play, like, why did my father take us there? Not to talk about grief, because nobody mentioned my mother or her death after she died. It was to show us how to survive it the Irish way. Which is you get on with it. You carry on. You don't, you know, swim in the sadness. You just move on, just like the weather. You deal with it. Yeah, it's all about behavior.

It's all about, like, just do things, like, fake it till you make it, kind of like active action rather than discussing any real—

Which, as we all know, does not work. It doesn't work. Exactly! All the Irish Catholic people out there going, "Yes! Let's have a drink!" That's right.

It doesn't work. It does not work. Yeah, it doesn't work. Little tiny Rosie. Yeah. Funny always. Popular. Yes. Homecoming queen and class clown. That doesn't happen a lot.

I know. And I was prom queen and student council president. Nailed it. And I did all the plays and played all the sports like a good lesbian.

So. So you crushed it.

I crushed it in high school.

How do you then get in? How do you then decide, I'm going to do stand-up.

I didn't want to do that. I wanted to be on Broadway. So when I was in 10th grade, my brother was a senior, and they asked me to write the script for Senior Follies, where you make fun of the teachers. And you know what I did? I took the Saturday Night Live album with Chevy Chase and Jane Curtin and Gilda and Lorraine Newman, and I took all the jokes, and I just rewrote them for— like, there was a joke about a teacher who was flat-chested, which I took directly from there. It's like, "Miss Barron, more on that story as it develops." You know? Because— And I just put everything about someone in the school. And they were like, "Oh, this—" And they were like, "You're a genius." "A genius." And I also did Roseanne and Rosanna Danna. I heard. And this guy comes over to me, and he goes, "My brother, Craig Minervini, is in this school, and I'm a stand-up comedian, and I just opened a comedy club in Huntington, and I'd like you to come down and do stand-up comedy." "Comedy." I said, "No, no, I'm gonna be on Broadway. I wanna be a Bette Midler backup singer, one of the harlots.

I wanna be in A Chorus Line." Now, the fact that I couldn't really sing or dance didn't really stop me, 'cause I had a lot of enthusiasm. But I— So he had me go there. First night, everyone from my high school was there. And I did jokes like, "Mary Lynn's going out with Mitchell, and Greg doesn't know." And people who paid money are like, "What the?" And the audience is laughing like you can't believe, 'Cause it's my high school friends.

They all showed up.

Correct. Oh, wow. Well, the next night was a school night. Yeah. And I went in, and I died a horrible death. So, I had in the first two nights at 16 years old, the greatest night of my life, the first night, and the worst night of my life, the second night. And then he said, "Well, here's what I wanna do. You're welcome to come here anytime. You don't have to pay to get in. You sit in the back with us comics, and you watch, and you learn." And after about 4 months, Shirley Hemphill from What's Happening came in. Yes. She saw me at the open mic night, and she went over to Richie Minervini and said, "Little one's opening for me." And Richie said, "She's not ready." And Shirley said, "Either she goes on with me, or I don't go on." And she would sell out. Shirley Hemphill, when I started, you know, in the '80s, was like a pretty huge star. Yeah. And she got me paid $25 a show, which when you're 16 years old is like a million dollars. And started my whole career. And then she got me with her manager, Bernie Young, who ended up the executive producer of my show.

KELI: I mean, you did, Rosie.

The start of your career is like getting discovered at the soda shop. Like, the fact that people saw you, said, "You're funny. Come here." You get there, they're like, You're funny, stay with me. Then you're 20 or something, and Ed McMahon's daughter says, "Go on Star Search." I mean, people are really noticing. You were just— you were making huge impressions really fast on people.

Right. And it was shocking to me. And I was like, "Really?" Like, when Claudia McMahon came over to me in that same club that Richie Minervini owned, and she said, "You know, my name is Claudia McMahon, Ed McMahon's my dad, and I'm gonna get you on Star Search," I thought, "Yeah, right. This is some psycho person who doesn't, you know, have any connection." She has the same last name, And the next day, there's a phone call. "Hi, it was Star Search calling for Rosie O'Donnell." And I was booked.

There might be people listening who don't remember who Ed McMahon is. And we talked about Johnny Carson. Ed McMahon was Johnny's co— was like— Sidekick. Sidekick. Thank you. And, like, had a really distinctive laugh and would just kind of, like, support Johnny, but then became a host in his own right and hosted this show called Star Search, which was, back then— Huge. Beyond. I mean, I can't even imagine what the numbers were of people that— And huge names were on Star Search. Beyoncé was on Star Search. Who else was on Star Search? God, I have a laptop. I have so many people.

There's so many people who were on that show and went on to great things. But, you know, I got there, and every week that you won, you had to stay 'cause they did it live.

Oh, right. You had to stick around.

You had to stick around at the Sunset Hyatt on Sunset. I had no money. I walked every day to Carnie's. The hot dog stand, and for like $3, I got a small Coke and a hot dog, and that's what I lived on. By the 5th or 6th episode, I was the thinnest I'd ever been. I'm like, "This is how you lose weight, apparently." And, you know, but I won like 20-something thousand dollars, which to me was unbelievable. Unbelievable. I walked to the Mazda dealership. I walked with my $26,000 in my pocket. And I bought a stick shift, which I didn't know how to drive, a Mazda 626, brand new, with no air conditioning in California. And I paid above the sticker price. They saw me come in. And then, listen, the guy says to me, "Do you want the undercoating?" I said, "I don't know. Do you think I need it?" In LA, you don't need the undercoating. There's no snow. No snow. And I got the full winterized package for my non-air-conditioned car. It was unbelievable to me. But yes, I've had a very lucky ride, Amy, and I don't ever forget it. And that's why I try to help other people.

Okay, but Rosie, I'm gonna say, yes, luck, of course, but also you had something, you had a real drive. You had a desire to be heard, obviously, seen. You wanted to perform, you felt it, you went, you took big risks, big swings. Like, people can say, "Come to the comedy club," but you have to go. You have to write your act, you have to think about it. You have to— There was something really indomitable about your spirit, especially as a young person, where you were like, "I gotta be heard." Yes, it's so true.

I wanted that, you know, in a way that's hard for me to even articulate or find the origin of. You know, it really is. And I did want— I didn't have material, just to be clear. The third day that I went back, after the two horrible days, I went back and I went up. They gave me 5 minutes, and I had just watched Merv Griffin, and Jerry Seinfeld was on. And I was like, "Oh, that's funny." You know? So I go onto the stage. Not only do I do his act, I do his cadence and his delivery. I'm like, "I'm driving here and my car stalls. I'm thinking, 'Hey, why don't I open the hood? What am I looking for? A big on-off switch? On-off?'" It was totally Jerry Seinfeld. Did you ever tell Jerry that you did that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so I walk off the set, and I get sworn. I was alarmed by 5 older male comedians. I'm a teenager, remember? Oh, no. They're like, "Where'd you get that joke?" I said, "Jerry Seinman. He was on Merv." And they go, "It's Seinfeld, and those are his jokes, and you can't do his jokes." I'm like, "Wait a second.

Why can't I do his jokes?" They said, "Because you have to write them yourself." I'm like, "Barbra Streisand does not write her own songs. Why do I have to write my own jokes? I'm not a writer. I'm just funny." They said, "That's what you have to do." And so, it took me a while of being an emcee to get material— Wow. Learn to talk about your own family. And that's how I did it.

Wow. I mean, you talked about doing Gilda's— Did you ever meet Gilda or any of those? Once. You did? I would've loved to have met her.

She was doing a one-woman show, Gilda Live, in DC. And I went, and I had this older man, again, another person who helped me, who saw me at a little comedy club at, like, the Ground Round, where you could have a burger and throw the peanut shells on the floor. You know, so you'd be doing your act, and you'd hear, "We have a pickup on 3. Pickup on 3. It's a cheeseburger." "Come on, Vinnie, come on!" In the middle of your act, you know? So, I was at this Ground Round, and this older man, I mean in his 80s, Lou Levy, impresario, that's what his card said. "Impresario Lou Levy." We need to bring back business cards.

We really do.

It was a big thing. But he knew someone who knew Gilda and said, "Go backstage." And I did. I went backstage, and she was leaving out the back door. And I followed her out the back door, and I said, "Excuse me, excuse me, Gilda?" And she said, "Yes?" And I said, "Do you know impresario Lou Levy?" And she was like, "No?" And like looking around for security, you know, like— And I said, "Oh, okay. He told me that I could come back and meet you." And she said, "Yeah, I don't know him, honey. It's okay." But she was not mean to me. She didn't like, you know, throw me aside. She looked me in the eye. She stopped. But she, you know, I used to do her because my name is Rosanne. And, you know, Rosanna, Rosanna Dattner, "You ever notice you have a little piece of spit between your lips, and it goes up and down and up and down?" I would do her every town hall show at my school.

It was kind of like, that was how you told people you were into comedy, was by memorizing SNL. Totally.

And that's what I did. And it was so unbelievable when I got to host.

Yeah. I was looking up the musical guests when you hosted. You hosted James Taylor and Whitney Houston.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. The second time, Penny was supposed to host. But, you know, Penny often had a big gulp, and we don't know what was in it. Let's just say. And so she could come, or walked over from the SNL set to my studio, which was right on the same floor. And she goes, "Rosie, they want me to host, but I'm only doing it with you. Will you do it with me?" And I said, "Okay!" And I went in, and I did it. And, you know, You know, Whitney, uh—

What was it like to meet Whitney?

You know, I really loved her, and I really— That voice is once a generation. Agree. But when I had my show, we were doing a full episode on Cinderella, and Brandy was on, and Whitney was supposed to be on, and she canceled 10 minutes before, and it was a live show. Yikes.

And I remember going on the show and saying, "Whitney, you better be sick in that hotel." During those times too, when there just wasn't as much discussion in general about people's mental health, certainly about addiction in any way. Oh, without a doubt. Yes. And, you know, you were hosting— you hosted before I got to SNL, but you were doing your show at the same time. We were in the same building at the same time when you were doing The Rosie O'Donnell Show. It was Studio— 8H. Yeah.

Well, we were 8H. Oh, no. I was 8G? 8G. Yes. Where Seth is now. Yes, that's right.

You were in Studio 8G. That's right. And so, I can remember, 'cause we— you were— because you were daytime, your stuff would be kind of done before we would be cranking.

Starting, yes. Yeah.

And the rare nights that, you know, we'd be there all night working, your crew would be coming in.

It was like the day shift and the night shift.

In the morning, yes. It was so cool to be around that. And that show, Rosie, it still remains— you must be very proud of the stuff you've done on that show. Yes.

I definitely am. And you know, the human interest stuff, the things that I think back on. There was a super kid right after 9/11. Gorgeous girl, horrible childhood, stellar student. And at the very end, I said, "Please remember, Kellogg's is going to throw you into any college you get into, so you get into Harvard because Kellogg's will be paying. Tell everyone what your favorite cereal is." And she said, "Frosted Flakes, but rosemary." "I don't want to take the money because of all the people in 9/11. I'd like to donate my money to the 9/11 fund." Come on. You could have— I couldn't even speak to get it out to say, "We'll be back for—" I was like, I kept tapping the desk. I was trying, like, to get out of the generosity of the human spirit, which leaves me weak all the time.

I wonder what your Enneagram number is.

I don't know, but I know this. Do you ever run it? I am a triple Aries. Oh, wow, Rosie. 3. And everybody— I had my chart done twice because the woman's face when she finished, she's like, "You're a triple Aries." Like I was a Charles Manson murderer, potentially. You know?

I was like, "What does it mean?

What does it mean?" You know?

Well, Dratch was in here, and Dratch is like a Pisces stellium, meaning she's got like more, like 8 things in Pisces, whatever. And the woman was like, "How are you alive?" Yes, exactly.

She was so good in Rocky Horror. I was so happy for the Tony nominations.

I mean, I had such an incredible summer with her, Anna, Anne, and Maya all on Broadway at the same time.

All on Broadway. Unbelievable.

Rocky Horror was so good.

And that lead boy, my lord in heaven. Luke something. Luke! Ho ho ho! Makes a girl think, you know? Gay girl too. I was like, "I don't know what your deal is, sir, but come over near me and let me smell you." You know? Like, "I don't want you naked in my bed. I'm not interested in the downtown mechanic." but I would like you to maybe have lunch with me and get me a lemonade.

You know? Well, that's how I feel about lesbians. I don't want to kiss them, but I want them to think I'm cool.

Well, we do. I went to the last meeting and everybody was like, "Is Amy Poehler still cool?" And everybody said yes.

And I often want to be them. You know, like, it's like— that's very interesting about, like, sexuality and gender, right? As you see something and you're like, "Do I want to kiss them? Do I want to be them? Do I want to get their approval?" Like, it's— and— And kind of what we talked about earlier, now it's so interesting is everything is so much more open. Like we can talk about, I mean, like even when you used to talk about loving Tom Cruise. Yes. It was like people would wanna make that very binary, right? Like, like why?

Yes. Well, that means she wants him in bed. I often said, I don't want him in bed. I want him to mow my lawn and bring me an iced tea. Like that's what I said. And I didn't know how much clearer I could be. So when I finally did come out, and people were shocked. I was like, "How the hell are you shocked?" And they're like, "The Tom Cruise thing." I'm like, "How much clearer did I have to be?" Yeah. There are men that I feel this way. There's a guy in Cats, the Jellicle Ball, Sidney Harcourt. He plays Rum Tum Tugger, and he is the sexiest human I've ever seen and so unbearably talented. And I did the judges thing when I was there once. And he came up and sings to the judges, and he put his hand on my face, and I was like a little schoolgirl. Like, "Oh my God." Oh my God, the most handsome boy in the class is looking at me! You know? And I still have those feelings, but it doesn't translate into, "I would like to be sexually intimate with you." You know? Doesn't go there.

Trust me on that one.

I mean, which it proves once again, always, that it is like, you cannot change who you are. You really— There's nothing about sexuality that feels like— You can't, like, think your way into being attracted to somebody differently.

Well, can I tell you this story that just happened to me? I'm in LA at the Four Seasons Hotel, "with Clay, and Clay asked for alone time to stim." Her stim is running. So, she runs the perimeter of a room and touches the walls as she goes. But they— but they like to do it alone. And at home, we have the space that they can do it alone. So, I said, "It's the World Cup. I'll go downstairs. I'll have a beer. I'm gonna give you 1 hour. When it's 9 o'clock, I'm coming up." What a beautiful exchange.

I just wanna pause for a second. That you're— Child is able to say, "I need this." Express what it is. You're like, "Okay, this is what you need." There's no shaming involved. No. Also, I have some boundaries too. I gotta come back in an hour. We're gonna work together. Beautiful.

Okay, thank you. And so, I get downstairs, and there's Margo Martindale sitting at the bar. Oh, Margo. Love. And I've never met her, but I love her work. Love. And one seat is empty, and it's next to her. So, I sit down, and I go, "Margo Martindale, Rosie O'Donnell star, The First Lady." The Flintstones. And she's like, Rosie. And I said, Margo. And then she goes— I go, can I buy you a drink? And she slowly looks up and goes, sweetheart, it's not my first one. And I said, can I buy you your fifth one? That'll be it. Yes, you can. You know, there's a guy sitting next to us, a doctor, handsome, built, muscles, about 55, maybe 57. Oh my God, this is great.

Pays our bill. Oh, bless. He should. Straight men should buy all the things.

Yes, I agree. Yeah, paid Everything. Walked Margo to the elevator, comes back, says, "Can I talk to you for a minute?" I said, "Sure. I have to go up in just a bit." He said, "Okay, um, I really feel like I am connecting to you tonight, and I was wondering if when you're here doing your, um, Jimmy Kimmel, that we could go out for dinner." And I said, "Uh, newsflash, big lesbian. I don't know if you heard, but been that way since 1970." And, uh, I don't think there's a— Well, it doesn't mean that you can't, you know, go out to dinner with someone, and who knows, maybe you'll feel He's a doctor, by the by. He's a doctor. So, the next day, there's flowers. There's flowers for me sent to my room. I'm like, "Okay." Rosie, this is fascinating. Okay, so I go— I'm thinking to myself, "What's going on here?" I get in the plane, and the gayest flight attendant in the world comes over to me and starts talking, and starts telling me his whole life. He's been with his partner 37 years, but they only just told their families 'cause they were both from religious communities, and they lived in the same city.

South. And he was my age, and he was so funny and so beautiful. And he walked away, and I thought, "I could never leave my gay family." Like, I could never leave the throngs of gay people out in the world, of which I am a member, and proud to be a member, and want to be the person that the gay guys come over and tell me their stories. And, you know, it was something that I realized I realized no matter how handsome he was and how many flowers he sent, there's no way you're gonna make this gay person a straight person. That's right. And the same way that you can't make a straight person a gay person. Now, there is a spectrum, so there's overlap, of course, you know? But I'm one of those, you know, definitely 100% gay. But that guy was like, "But you haven't seen my moves yet." You're not kidding!

But, you know, Rosie, you look fantastic.

Thank you, Amy. You know, I wanna say this. You look fantastic. I've never—

No, that's not what it's about.

No, no, it is what it's about. I never, I never felt better. And it's sad to me that it took me till I was 64 to get here, but part of it is Mounjaro. Yeah. 3 years ago, the doctor told me, before it was really in the news that much, we had Ozempic, but I didn't know that there was Mounjaro. So they said, you have diabetes, can you take a shot? I said, I think so. I don't know. I've never done a shot. Shot? Is it insulin? Because my uncles and stuff. And they said, no, it's this new drug, and it really helps with your blood sugar. Never mentioned weight loss. Never said anything. Whoa. Because it was my numbers they were trying to get down. Oh, sure. Yeah. Right. So I go on this Mounjaro, and I go to Nobu with my son. He's just gotten engaged at Phantom of the Opera. How perfect for my son, right? I was like, you're getting mommy points and more money in the will for this. So good. And then the weirdest thing, he gets down on one knee before the show, starts, and everybody in the audience goes, "Aww!" And they start looking at him.

And this woman's voice I hear behind me going, "Are they the sweetest couple in the world?" I turned around, I go, "Hillary Clinton, that is my son." And they have a picture on their engagement of Hillary Clinton with them at the Phantom of the Opera. But I digress. So I take the— I take the shot. Amazing. And I go out to Nobu, and I can't eat anything. And I think I'm so overwhelmed emotionally by missing my mom and wishing she could have seen and known him, and that he got engaged. And a brand new start in his life. And I was full of emotion. And, um, so I thought that's what it was. Yeah. Cut to 2 weeks later, I get on the scale, I call my doctor crying. I must have cancer. I've lost £12 and I haven't done anything. It's been 3 weeks since I started that medicine.

Yeah, 'cause you do get to a certain age where losing weight for no reason is scary.

Well, I had never lost weight for no reason. Even when I tried to lose weight, it was hard for me to lose weight. Weight. And I had done all those things, Fen-Phen and everything. But this drug is going to help so many people if they could only stop being greedy bastards and give it to the people who need it at a price that is affordable for everyone. It's a sin to have science come so far to help cure obesity.

You've been so open with your body, and that's not easy, Rosie, because as a woman in the world in general, people want to talk about your body nonstop. Yes. And You've had people talk about your body all the time.

Especially that orange one. Exactly.

You've had the— you've had the— you've had stuff said about your body that's so fucking horrible and insane. And you also are a woman in the world, like we all are, feeling feelings about their body. And we all know it doesn't matter what size you are, you have feelings about your body. Of course.

When I look at myself from when I was thinner, and I think at that At one point, I thought I was fat. I think that it's our duty to help each other, especially women helping other women.

All I want to do now is talk to women that are 10 years older than me to say, "What are you doing? Like, what are you doing for your body? What are you doing for— What are you taking? What do you— How do you move? What are your exercises? How do you feel?" Like, you know, I'm curious when you're doing your show. I'm like, "I wonder what Rosie does. Does she stretch?

Does she do weights?" What I found is that it's not the physicalness of standing for an hour and a half every night. It's the people waiting to say hello to me. Yes. And I feel very obligated to do it, even though I'm depleted by the end of the show emotionally. I meet the people that I sort of know, or who know people that know me, and say they could stay in the seats. Yep. But I can't go out to the crowd for another hour because Clay's at home waiting. Yeah. With a babysitter, and she still sleeps in my bed. They still sleep in my bed. Yeah. And the doctor said, "Don't worry. When they're ready and they're safe enough, they'll go to their room." their own room, you know, but it's been a long time. A very long time.

But don't you feel like that's growth and maturity too, is figuring out the amount of energy you have and people that love you and understand, like, I mean, at a certain point, I mean, you are an extroverted person, present as an extroverted person. You're probably much more introverted than you present. And it's like being an extroverted person, having conversations, very draining. It takes a lot out of, especially— And I care. Yes, exactly.

And it breaks my heart. This one guy in the show, his mother died, and at her funeral, she wanted to be buried in her Rosie O'Donnell t-shirt, and the family was upset. So this young gay boy cut out the label that said, "The Rosie O'Donnell Show," folded it up, and put it in his mother's hand in the coffin and said, "If anyone touches this, I'm not gonna speak to you." And so he fulfilled his promise to his mother. Mother by letting her be buried with a Rosie O'Donnell something. And that kind of adulation and very generous giving of love and stories, it, it really— I take it with me. Yeah. And I know if I was able to talk to Barbra Streisand when I was a kid, if there was a chance that she would answer me me back on Instagram, I would not have gone to school. I would've stayed home. I used to write her letters and send it to Columbia Records. I, so I, I think I, I get it so much. Yeah. But it's hard for me to believe that I am that to them because you always only feel like you.

Right. And also that's also just nervous system-wise is sometimes hard to receive. It's a lot to receive. Yes. Yes. It's a lot to receive cuz you don't wanna disappoint the person in the moment. All right. You wanna take all their stuff they're really excited to tell you. And you're also a human being with your own stuff and your own— So it's— You have to have a big capacity. It's a lot.

Yes, it's a lot. And I feel like recently I'm re-famous. That's what I feel. I told my kids, "Well, kids, hold on, 'cause Mommy's re-famous." I don't know how it happened. I think it's Mango Mussolini. I think it's him who did it. He didn't know. If he knew how much he was helping my career and my life, he would shut up about me because— He's a horrible creature.

You know, that story you told about that man, we know because we spoke— We do this thing on the show where we speak to friends of our guests to talk well behind their back. And we spoke to Cynthia Nixon. Aww.

And she was the one who told me that story.

And she told us that story. Yes. And she also spoke— I mean, she's so— Like so many people, Rosie, she feels so seen by you. You, supported by you. She's an incredible performer and actress and activist and New Yorker. Yes. And, um, what's so great about Cynthia? What do you—

she is the real deal, period, end of subject. She's one of the best actresses that we have. She stands up for, uh, injustice wherever she sees it. She puts her money where her mouth is. She loves her children and her wife, and I admire her greatly.

Well, the feeling is mutual. And she talked about— she had a couple questions for you, and they're really fun. Okay. They're really fun. One of them is, you know, and it's about, you know, we haven't even— we don't have— we could talk about all your act. We haven't even talked about all the stuff that you've done. But one thing that we saw recently that was really exciting to see is in And Just Like That, like to see an intimate scene between you and her and you playing a character who was having experience for the first time and is very vulnerable. And she was— and her question was like, she was like, you know, "What was your bed scene with Cynthia Nixon like?" Horrifying to me because I was so nervous.

Yeah. And, you know, first of all, I love her. Like, I love her. Yeah. Right? And have so much respect for her. And she called me and she's like, "Ro, you know, Michael Patrick wrote you a scene and it's with me. Will you do it?" I said, "Of course I'll do it with you." You know? And that was it. And then I read it, and I'm like, in bed with just the sheets, and I'm like, "Oh my God." Like, I only did one sex scene in my life, and it was with Julian McMahon from Nip/Tuck. And he was such a gentleman that I had a tube top on and like little underpants, and I'm supposed to be naked. And he's got a little cock sock, and he's like leaning, his arms are shaking 'cause he doesn't wanna put his body on mine, you know? And so finally, after 3 takes, they said, "We keep seeing this." the top, the tube top. And I looked at him and he's this gorgeous, God rest his soul, gorgeous Greek statue of a man. He's a Kennedy in my mind. Like, he's just so— was just so perfect. And so I pulled down my tube top and I said, "Julian, those are my boobs." And he said, "Nice rack." And I said, "Really?" And he said, "Yes." I said, "Oh, okay." And then I, like, stood up to the crew.

No, I didn't. I didn't. But so I was nervous with Cynthia. And then Michael said, "You know, you guys can be a little bit more." And I'm thinking, "I can't really." I don't know. Also, it's weird to kiss your friends. Yes, exactly. The kissing wasn't hard, but the laying in bed and the wanting us to act like we had just done it, I was like, "Ugh." But, you know, I'm a little immature when it comes to that.

I don't even think that's immature. I've talked to a lot of my friends who have to do intimate scenes, and it's a struggle. Skill. It's a skill. It's a skill. It's a, it's a really skill. Okay, her other question, one another question is, what does it feel like to be the most eligible lesbian bachelor on the scene?

Well, the fact that I never know when anyone is hitting on me makes me not really be able to appreciate it, to tell you the truth. Yeah. But you know, it's, it's very lovely. I said on an interview I did about that I was looking, you know, I'd like to be in love again. Well, I might as well have taken out an OnlyFans account because all these lesbians are like, I think I'm the one for you. And I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, you know? And when people are asking for autographs, they're looking a little longer. The ones I know are gay. I'm like, oh no, oh no, what am I gonna do? You know, I shouldn't have said it, but it is really flattering and really lovely. And, you know, I love—

Rosie, it's just so vulnerable and beautiful that you even say, "I'm looking for love again." I mean, just even that is like, you have to— we have to open up the channel to that sometimes. Yes. We're not always in the right space for it, and for a million reasons.

And I will say, you know, it's really hard with Clay because that's my primary relationship. So I haven't really known how to do both. Yeah. And I also didn't want someone telling me their opinion on it. On how to raise an autistic child. Because until you have your own, you don't really know what the topography is like. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Every— everything is different. And you shared that journey online. It's, you know, I was during COVID I felt very less alone by listening to you. You know, you did like front-facing videos on TikTok about what was going on in your life. You have educated me and a lot of people on on what it feels like to be on the journey of figuring out your kid, 'cause everyone has to figure out their kid. Yes. Even if they are neurodivergent or not. Everyone has to be like, who, what kind of kid do I have? Everyone has to do that journey.

Yes, exactly.

And you, everyone has to let go and kind of at times even grieve for some version of a, a, a child they don't have that they thought they were gonna have. And then step into the beautifulness of the kid that they have. Yes. Everybody has to make that journey.

Now, I never grieved believed that. I didn't think, you know, when a lot of my friends would have autistic kids, they were very thrown by it. And I was never thrown by it. And I know, like, in one case, my publicist, who I love, Cindy Berger, she has a son who's neurodivergent and spectrum, on the spectrum, Spencer. And when he was a little kid, all he would say is, "Rosie O'Donnell lives behind a green gate. Rosie O'Donnell lives behind a green gate. Rosie O'Donnell, how many ceiling fans do you have?" So when she— he would come in, he's like 5 or 6, and Cindy would— I'd see her sit outside going, "You don't talk about the ceiling fans." Ceiling fans. You do not talk about those. Like she's talking to somebody about interviewing Mariah Carey, you know, no matter what you do, you don't look at her. You don't, you know. And so he comes in and he's like, hi, Rosie O'Donnell, you live behind a green gate. I go, I'm glad you found the house. Wanna go count ceiling fans? And she's like, and I take him and we can, and we watch the garage door open and close.

And so I always thought to God, like I really did say to God, why didn't you give me an autistic child? I think I would be able to translate and to understand and be like an inter— You know, to help them in a world that wasn't designed for them. But you know, when we found out that they have autism, we decided to do a lot of autism-friendly events. And we went to this one Mommy and Me class. And so she's walking around talking at 3 years old to everyone. She comes back holding hands with a boy who was 5. 5, and he had Down syndrome, he had autism, and he was non-speaking. Now, he could make sounds, he was verbal, but he could not form words. So she says, "Mommy, this is my new best friend Steven. Steven, this is my mommy." And Steven goes, "I was so— so— so—" And, uh, she looks at him and says, "I'm sorry, Steven, but we don't speak Spanish." And I thought, this kid is funny at 3 years old, you know. She knows how to lay down and Joke gets the biggest laugh in my show. And I didn't write it.

She did. You know? Perfect.

How's the dog? Do you guys still have the dog?

Oh, yes. We took the dog Kuma over to Ireland. Now, I will say this. The service dog for autism is really for the whole family. Yeah. It's not just for the kid. Yeah. And as Clay has gotten older, she's decided— they've decided they're into cats. Okay. Not so much dogs. Sure. So Kuma is really my emotional support animal. Great. Because when I am I'm upset and things are, you know, he sits right here. Yeah. And his face is right there and he's like, will lick my face and like, look at me like, are you okay? I'm like, dude, I'm better. I'm calming down. Yeah. I'm not, you know, taking all the news off the channels in Ireland. Yes. All the American stations has been a big blessing.

I wanna talk to you briefly about Ireland because I mean, everybody is really interested in how it's going for you there. And what is it like to be in living in another country?

What has been the best and hardest The best part is that they don't have celebrity culture there. Nobody really cares that you're famous. Now, when people knew that I moved there, people would say, "Welcome, Rosie. Welcome to Ireland. You belong here." And it's so sweet. And we went out the first week we're there, and I don't know anyone but two cousins up in Northern Ireland, okay? So, we're at a beer garden, and I'm sitting next to a couple and their little 2-year-old baby. And husband and wife, lovely people. And Clay starts to play with their baby, and they're sitting as close as you and I are, but at a different table. So we spend 2 and a half hours together, and at the very end, as we're leaving, I said to them, "Thank you very much, it's been lovely meeting you." And they said, "And by the way, Rosie, we're huge fans." And I said, "Oh really? You thought you'd wait till the end of the dinner to bring that up?" Like being funny, right? Yeah. And she goes, "Well, surely it's not the most important thing now." "Is it?" I thought, a sentence you'd never hear in America.

"It's not the most important thing about you." And that's what I found out when I was over in Ireland. The hardest part is being away from my kids, my grown kids, and from my friends. You know, my friends are really my family and community. And it's been very difficult. It's lonely sometimes. But I have met two really good friends whose little kids have autism, and they're the same age as Clay. And we, you know, socialize together and— And, you know, that's been really helpful. You know, it's been very beautiful and very, very healing for me. People say they notice a difference. And I think I'm just calmer. Yeah.

I'm calmer being over there. Yeah. Well, it feels like you're taking care of yourself in the way you would take care of somebody else.

For the first time, I think. Yeah. Really? Because I usually try to, you know, put on everyone else's mask first.

Yeah.

Right. I understand that. And you're like, you're a fierce advocate for a lot of people, and it's It's always sometimes hard to turn that around on yourself. Yes, it is. We could have talked forever, Rosie. We could talk forever. We could. We didn't even talk about A League of Their Own.

Oh, wow. We didn't even talk about it. That was the best. How about Penny saying to me, "Rosie, I want you to lose £20 before principal photography." I'm like, "Yeah, Pen, I keep it on because it's fun. I keep on the extra 20 or 40, and you don't like it? I'm sorry." So shocked, you know. And then she would always say, she would always go, okay, I need somebody to go over there, get the fly bullshit, get maybe bend down, come up with a hot dog in your mouth. Who wants to do it? Now no one else could understand her, so I'm like, I'll do it, Penny. So Rosie again, why always Rosie? Girls, you don't want to be in a movie? And they're like, what'd she say? What did she say? But I miss her. She was a riot, man.

Oh my God, I got to meet her. She was a riot.

We would sometimes go to basketball games together, again with her very big Big Gulp. And she would say at halftime, "Whoa, you wanna go shoot some hoops?" I go, "Penny, this is not a set. This is the NBA. We're not going to shoot." "Come on, there's the Bulls. Let's just go shoot a couple." And she did. She went out without me. I was too embarrassed to do it. But she wasn't embarrassed of anything.

I mean, people don't understand what Laverne and Shirley meant to women in comedy. They were both, I mean, Cindy Williams also really funny. And they got to be so funny. They were the funny women in their show. Yes, indeed. They got—

Like Lucy and Ethel.

Exactly. Lucy and Ethel got jokes, and Laverne and Shirley got jokes. And they did so much physical comedy. They were so funny. And the men in that show kind of came and went and rolled their eyes and commented on the, you know, on the funny stuff like the women usually had to do in shows. And Laverne and Shirley got all the jokes. They got all the jokes. And the last question I'll ask, Rose, is what are you— I know you're a huge fan of the arts, but you, like, just like the video we talked about, about, you love the high-low. You love a viral video that you're watching or a TV show. You love beautiful fine art. You're an artist. You are a true fan all the time.

Yes.

What do you watch, listen to? What are you into these days right now that's making you laugh, that's keeping you light, that's keeping you connected, or like—

Well, I loved Lena Dunham's book, Fame Sick, because I had a very similar experience with fame. It's, you know, it's the impending glittering disaster, as Boy George wrote in 2000. Taboo. You know, it's hard to explain it to people because it's held up as the utopia, and it's really not. And it's hard to manage, and it affects your life completely, and everyone in your life completely.

And nobody feels any sympathy about it.

No, no.

And you can't really complain about it unless you're with other famous people, because other people go, "Well, how dare you?" You know? "How dare I?" Try to live it. It's not that easy. You become depersonalized. Like, people don't think you're a person anymore. But I'm watching this show on HBO called Half-Life. Death Man. Oh yeah. Oh my God. It's the guy who did Baby Reindeer. Yes. Richard Gadd. Yes. And he is a genius. He did that one, brought it to Edinburgh, and made it into that show. And now he wrote and stars in a very intense psychological drama relationship about two half-stepbrothers, step Brothers, and it's riveting.

Lena Waithe was in here talking about that too.

Oh my God, isn't she fantastic? The coolest. She is the coolest. She's so cool. And I love her clothes too. I saw that. I watch you. I think you're the only podcast I listen to because I, I'm too old. I don't— I never like— who has the time? No, but I, I love, I love this one, and I watch it all the time.

Thank you for saying that, Rachel.

It's the truth. It's the truth. I've learned—

I learned a lot by watching you. I learned a lot by watching how you you interact with people, and the spirit of this show owes a lot to your show. Oh, honey, thanks a lot. To hear you say that, so thank you.

Well, no, you're kind and you're loving and you're very interested and curious, and not all podcast people are. No. They don't seem interested. They seem like they're trying to do something for their own career, not like— you seem genuinely to care about each guest that you have, and it's really beautiful. So thank you. Thank you.

And I'm looking forward to seeing you on Kimmel, which is is gonna be—

August 17th to the 20th. Yes. Can't wait to see you back in TV. I know. He— thank God for him. And I'm so happy that he asked me.

In this re-famous way, everybody wants to see and hear more from you. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for doing this, Rosie.

Amy, it's my true pleasure. Anytime. And when I'm back, when he's— I will, um, I'll be your person if anyone cancels. Call me up and I'll just show up.

Thank you, Rosie O'Donnell. That was such a good conversation. Loved talking to you and could have done it all day. And, you know, Rosie is always supporting stuff that she loves, and anybody who listens to Good Hang knows that I love podcasts. And I wanted to recommend a podcast for this polar plunge. It is Dan Taberski's Manifesto. It is a show about all different types of manifestos, what they mean, what they're trying to say, good, bad, confusing, how they motivate us, how they keep us frozen, how they move things along. It's so, so well done. It's an Audible original. Thanks Productions has made this show, along with Dan Taberski, the host. And you can get it in any of your platforms. You can find it anywhere. It's such a good show. Dan Taberski's Manifesto. Check it out. Highly recommend it. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Thank you, Rosie, for joining us. And thanks, everybody, all the time for everything everywhere. And we'll see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite.

For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Alea Xaneres. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

And I am the one who wants a really good hate.