Transcript of Lena Dunham

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have Lena Dunham with us today. Lena, actress, writer, producer, creator of Girls, bestselling author of her memoir Famesick. We are gonna get into it with Lena. We are gonna talk about, um, Nora Ephron. We're gonna talk about the productivity myth and how we're all suffering because of it. We're gonna talk about whether or not One should go on Great British Bake Off. Is it actually worth it? We are gonna get into so much good stuff today. We had a great conversation and we always like to talk to somebody who knows our guest, who has a question for our guest and wants to speak well behind their back. And we spoke to Natalie Portman. Ah, classy actress Natalie. You know her from The Black Swan, from rapping on SNL, from a little indie called Star Wars. And she and Lena are working on a rom-com together. So, uh, let's get Natalie on the horn. I believe we're talking to her from outside of the country. So bonjour, or bonsoir, Natalie. This episode is presented by Hilton. Guys, you know what vacation perfectionism is? It's the pressure to get your family's summer vacation booked and make it perfect and memorable.

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Nice to see you.

You too. Thanks for talking to us today. First of all, congrats on the summer bob.

Thank you. You too. I mean, well, you're kind of— you've been doing it for a while, right?

Well, I have, you know, usually like no option with my hair. My hair is kind of— my hair just cuts itself. Okay, so first of all, congratulations on all the things that are happening for you, including this new film that you're in. With Mark Ruffalo and my wife Rashida Jones and many others.

She's my wife too. So I'm glad we share that in common.

I'd like to— I'd like to talk about that because we can't share her.

She's a polygamist.

It's okay.

Well, I'd like to get her on the horn and make her pick.

That's fair.

That's fair. That would actually probably be her nightmare if we called Rashida right now, like, me or Natalie?

Exactly.

She'll be like, "Ezra." I do want to talk about your film and working with Lena. But by the way, have you been listening to the Lonely Island to Seth Meyers podcast at all?

No, but I've heard amazing things about it.

Highly recommend their episode about your rap. It's so— it's so good and it's so funny and it's very in-depth about how it all came together.

They're the best. And that was so fun.

That was— and it just— it's such a time capsule too, because it's just like a time in the 2000s. So that's its own thing.

Birth of YouTube. Like, so wild.

You've got short hair. So exciting. Yeah.

Post-head shaving.

Whoa. That was a grow-in.

Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Man, you know, you're not really an actress unless You have one. Head shaving. Like, you gotta shave your head once.

Have you ever shaved your head?

No. I would— I have kind of a small head, so I would be—

That's surprising. I wouldn't guess that.

Oh, really? Thank you so much. Does my head look larger? Your head looks perfectly normal-sized. You know, well, you know the whole theory that, like, the bigger the head, the more successful you are? Do you know this theory?

Oh, really? No, I don't.

When, at SNL, I'm sure this happened to you too when you were there, Like, they'll measure your head, you know, for prosthetics and stuff like that. And so you get a sense of who has really big heads. And supposedly, historically, the bigger the head, the bigger the paycheck.

No way.

Yeah.

That's really funny.

Now that I've brought this up, you're gonna start to notice. You're gonna start to notice, like, "Wow, he has a huge head. Like, he's— that's why he's running a country," or whatever. You're gonna notice it.

That's so funny. But I mean, I feel like you're pretty successful, Amy.

Thank you so much. Maybe I'm a small-headed success.

Yeah, maybe you're an outlier.

But I do wear a young boy's hat. I can wear a young man's hat.

That's very lucky. Very lucky.

So I'm interviewing Lena today. Yes. And you know, I'm kind of getting her after a lot of interviews. Like she's been kind of on on tour, online, really out there. And I've known her for a long time, and I'm excited to talk about the different ways that I've known her, but I've never known her as a director. I've never worked with her in that way. And I'm curious what kind of director she is and what it was like to work with her in that way.

She's the best director I've— one of the best, if not the best, I've worked with. She's so on point. Like, the notes she gives are so, like, astute and specific and, like, she pays attention to everything. And she doesn't also, like, hesitate to give compliments too about very specific things along with, like, maybe try this different. And she's extremely nurturing. And generous and kind to everyone on set at all times. I would go home every day being like, how does she have the energy? Because the amount of generosity and kindness and thoughtfulness she puts out all day to everyone is pretty miraculous. So the very— the environment on set is incredible because everyone's just so happy.

Not a surprise to hear that, and so nice to hear that. And that's a really interesting specific that you said, which is that she will compliment something you've done. Like, that isn't always the case. Like, it's nice when people notice something that you try and say, "I noticed it." Exactly.

And it's specific, 'cause a lot of people will be like, "Oh, good job," or like, "That was a really nice take," or something. But she'll be like, "I like how you, like, accented the, you know, word in that. That was really funny in that line." You know, a very specific thing that she notices. Or like, "That face you made in response to," Rashida or whatever, like, that was great. Or it's, it's not just a general, like, you can tell she's really just watching so carefully and sharply, um, and her ideas are so good, and she comes up with, like, brilliant new lines all the time, you know, the way only great comedy minds like yourself can do.

Okay, so do you have a question for our guest today, Lena, that you think might be a good one to ask her?

My question for her is What— well, I had one kind of one that I personally want to know, which is what is the best kind of pig to get?

Okay, so you're thinking about getting a pig?

Actually can't in where I live, but, but I dream about it in the future one day. And she has a lot of knowledge about this, um, so— and I like to hear her talk about pigs.

That is a great question because I do enjoy pigs. They are really cute.

Yeah. So Lena, what is the best pig?

And I say get the pig, you know what I mean? Even if you're not allowed to have it.

So the problem is, is that where I rent, there's wild boars.

Oh yeah.

Apparently the wild boars mate with pigs and make a very dangerous hybrid. And so it's illegal in that area.

Okay.

Because there's some—

Did not expect that to be the reason.

There's a vicious hybrid baby pig. And I don't want to be responsible. I think I'll get kicked out of France.

So.

Okay. Very smart. That is, that is actually, that's very responsible parenting. That's responsible pig parenting. And I have 1,000 questions about the wild boars.

I mean, it's the main topic of conversation.

You know, you never hear about like really nice boars.

Well, I think like domesticated boars are pigs, right?

I'm not ready to say that. I don't know.

I don't know. Maybe we should ask Lena.

We could ask Lena.

We should ask Lena.

Because the boar, the big boar is going to come for us in a way that I'm not ready for. Okay, I'm going to ask her the difference between boars and pigs. Natalie, thank you so much for doing this. It really means a lot. And before we go, would you just mind saying in French to me, have a wonderful day, Amy. And your head may be small, but your heart is large.

Ta tête est petite, mais Ton cœur est grand. Ah! France is gonna murder me for that.

They're gonna send the boars. They're gonna send the boars. They're gonna send the boars. Ding dong. You're gonna hear a ding dong right now. There's gonna be 4 French boars. Language boars. No, thank you for doing that. Exactly. It sounds beautiful. Anything you say sounds beautiful. And especially in French. Thank you, Nathalie. Thanks. It's really nice to see you.

Thanks for doing this. I'm so glad to see you.

Yeah, you too. Have a good day. Okay, you too, Nathalie.

Bye.

Enjoy, Lena. Give her a kiss for me.

Woohoo!

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Woohoo!

Thank you, Lena. Thank you for being here. It's really good to see you.

It's really good to see you too.

It's been a long time.

I know, I've missed you.

I know, and congrats. You just celebrated your 40th birthday.

I had my 40th birthday.

How does it feel to turn the corner?

I've been trying to gather wisdom from the women that I know who have been 40 and seem to have liked it. I think it kind of rules.

Yeah, I like it. I like getting older much more than being young.

You don't know anything better than, different than being young when you're young, so you don't realize, but there's like a, some kind of pressure that's dissipating.

Yeah.

And some kind of attention that is no— that you no longer either feel you are supposed to be seeking or are getting. And it's a huge relief. I said, like, sometimes it's like you're— I'm, in the good way, gaining a cloak of invisibility.

Yeah.

And also, I was so— even though people seem to think of me as someone who's really, like, marching to the beat of my own drum or whatever, I was so dominated by shoulds and musts and ought tos. And now I feel really okay going, that's not really my thing, that's not for me. So glad if it's for you, not for me. I mean, even just realizing like, I don't really like to go to parties, dude.

I don't like to go to parties.

It's not even that I want to be asleep early, I just want to be in bed early to stay up late doing what I want to do in bed.

Well, I want to talk to you about your sleep. Okay, okay, because I have some thoughts. Okay, I would love to get them because we talk—

we, we, we—

you talk a lot about it in the book, and I can't wait to talk about it. But, but when you don't like going to a party, what would be your ideal gathering?

Great.

What would be my good hang?

Yeah, what do you bring it—

to bring it back?

Thank you.

I like to hang out on the couch or on bed with a friend, one friend, two friends, one or two. Maybe we order some food, we hang out with some animals, we gab. Then they leave early enough that you have time to maybe like potter around, move one pile of things from one corner of the room to another. Yes. Then read a book and maybe like watch a a little bit of a murder documentary, and then fall to sleep.

And text them and be like, "That was fun." Yes. And be like, "I love being your friend." "I wish we were still together." But you're very happy that you're both on your mats.

Yes, totally. That's exactly what I like. Or like when I hang out with my nuclear family, and I like when we all 4 of us read on different tufted surfaces near each other. And then everyone sort of puts themselves to bed. We parallel play, and then everyone puts themselves to bed.

I mean, I bet you get this a lot, and you talk about it a little bit in your book, like you present as such such an extrovert, right? And I relate. I present very extroverted too, but I— from what you've written about, that you are secretly quite introverted.

Yes.

And it's kind of hard to— you're in an extroverted business and you like to talk and you like to have other people talk. You want to draw that out of other people too.

I love to— I like to talk and I like to listen.

Yeah, you, you love to have a conversation. I know that about you, and that It's expensive.

Yes.

But it takes a very long time to realize that, especially if you're good at it.

Well, it's interesting. That's very beautifully put. And I've always found you to be exceedingly wise. I have always found you to be, despite your adorable little blonde bob, you are a wise—

Oh my God, thank you. I was talking about a bob earlier.

You are a very wise lady.

It's a bob summer.

After a party, I mean, I have to stare at the wall and dissociate for 18 hours minimum.

It actually leads me into my first question to you, which is you've been on a press tour. You've been talking nonstop with many people about your book, which is a very personal book. So now that you've done a bunch of these, what have you learned about how you like to talk about it? How can, like, how do you take care of yourself when you talk about it?

These are such good questions. You've done this before. I, I was like, it's a strange thing to write a book about what it cost you to go on press tours and talk and talk about yourself and then go on a press tour and talk about it.

Yeah.

Like maybe the most truthful thing would have been to like, just, you know, drop it like a surprise album and then go, I'll be in my bedroom for 6 months. You guys figure it out. But at the same time, I really love— this is going to sound— I really love books and— but I really love books and I really love I feel really lucky that I got to write it and really like— and there's, and there's issues in it, like, you know, the trying to talk about what it— how we kind of, um, perceive and consume female celebrity, how chronic illness, mental health stuff, that's like feels like things that I am excited to get to talk about in the right way.

Yeah.

But I had to really remind myself before going out, I— when I was really tap dancing as hard as I could in my 20s, I went into every interview basically the way that I would've gone into like every play date when I was in second grade, which was, I hope you wanna be my friend and I hope you wanna invite me back.

Yeah.

I, my mom always called it, she always, she still does, she'll be like 50% rule. Mm-hmm. Because she always says that I could give 50% less energy in situations and everything would be fine. You're very fancy.

Because I have tried to give 25%. I mean, I really do feel like you're, you're speaking to something really true. Not just women, obviously, but a lot of women overdeliver. They overdeliver in every way, and then they're exhausted and they match it. And bitter. And bitter. Well, of course I resent, I resent the things I do to myself.

It's gonna sound like a detour, but it's not. Okay. Which is that I have pet pigs and—

Oh, we're gonna talk about it.

Oh, where is— to quote Lisa Rinna's memoir title, you better, you better believe I'm gonna talk about it, or whatever it's called. So, you know I'm gonna talk about it.

And to quote Wanda Sykes's book, Yeah, I Said It. Continue.

But there is a thing when you're trained— when I got a pig, I realized, okay, this is not like a dog, this is not like a cat. I need to get some— I need to get a specialist in here to teach me how to do this.

Yeah.

And there's a woman named Susan Madgetson who is the preeminent pig trainer and rescue artist of our time.

Excellent.

And Susan T has a Zoom that she does every Monday night called For Pig's Sake, where all pig owners can get on and ask her questions. Susan, and at her farm, Ross Mill Farms, where she takes in all the pigs that people adopted because they thought they were so cute and little, and then they are 200 pounds of attitude. Yeah, of pure attitude. But one of the things that happens to house pigs is that they just developed something called spoiled SPS, spoiled pig syndrome, which is, it is a, it is a well-known condition wherein a pig starts to, if you ask your pig, say, if say you give your pig treats, but you don't ever ask them to do a trick for those treats. Right. Suddenly you ask them to do anything and they're like, no, that's not the deal that we were in. And then they start to become aggressive. They start to destroy things. They get an attitude. Because they've got spoiled pig syndrome. And I told my brother about it and he was like, "You mean like what you've done to everybody that you've ever dated?" Like, you have the worst.

Yes. Treats without the trick.

Treats.

Where's the trick, babe?

Where's the trick, babe? There is no trick. And he said also, it's the thing about spoiled pig syndrome is at the end of the day, you have a spoiled pig and it's nobody's fault but your own.

Ugh.

I know.

That's the worst part. I know. Is it always comes back to, I mean, that, I would say that is the one thing about being over 40 is there's just less and less ability to kind of put the blame externally. Like, you're like, "Oh, no, I know better. Thank God I know better, but fuck, now I know better." Okay, it took you 8 years to write this book. How did you know when it was done?

Really good question. Um, really good question. So, my editor, Andy Ward, is one of my most favorite people.

We love Andy Ward.

We live for Andy Ward, and he's just a good— He's a good man. He's— I don't try to go around using the term girl dad a lot. I don't love it, but, but he is, he is a girl dad. He's a girl dad to us all. And he's a writer dad and he's just the greatest. And he— what I love is that a lot of people in this economy would just go, okay, there seems to be like enough gossip that maybe People magazine would mention it.

Right.

Enough good quotes that we can get that out there. Yeah, we can get that out there.

Okay, it's ready.

And he, really cares. And he really pushed me to, you know, I started the book when I was, you know, 3 months out of rehab, and I just thought like, I'll jot off some of these experiences and then they will have left my body and I'll never have to think about it again.

Yeah.

And it ended up sort of the thing you said about having to look at yourself. I was like, this isn't gonna be, yeah, something that is worth the paper that it's printed on if I don't— if I have to tell the story and I also have to try to understand how I got there. Yeah. And It turns out that takes time.

And you know, you've talked about— there's, there's so many things in the book. There's about, there's relationship breakups, there's tons of stuff about figuring out, um, like you spoke of, like how to participate in the system and how the system works for you and against you. And there's a lot of stuff about personal stuff, about people that you work with. But I'm, I'm also interested in a couple of things, but, but I'm also interested in the way you speak about like looking for wisdom a little bit, especially in women that were a little older. I was really— I could have read a million pages about you and Nora Ephron. And we talk about her on this podcast a lot. I never had the pleasure to meet her, but—

You two would have really had a ball.

Thank you for saying that. I would have loved to have met her. And I guess it's not really a deep question, but it kind of feels like it. It's like, she gave you tips, decorating tips? She did. But that feels very, just like very maternal.

One of the ways that she showed care was she had this incredible incredible mental Rolodex of, "Here's where you get your bagels, and here's where you blow your hair out, and here's who should paint your walls. But the guy who paints your walls is different than the guy who paints your floors." Like, giving you all the tools to live well. She said to me, "You cannot shoot a movie without this very specific Patagonia lightweight—" She was like, "And don't get the medium weight. Get the lightweight zip puffer cardigan." You know, these things where she was just like, "I have been here for a while, and I've figured out—" She's curated her life.

She's curated her life.

It was exactly like that. That. And she— and I felt like, how lucky am I to be the person that she has chosen to give this, all of this incredible wisdom and information to? And when she died, I mean, there are hundreds of us. Somehow she found the time to do this. She would just see someone and think— I don't know if she thought, you know, they amused me enough that I can stand to have them around, or if she just thought they seem like they need it, but She showed up for, yeah, other women, younger women, in this way that was so mind-blowing. And I think part of why she did it was because it, it also made her feel good.

Well, now that you're like— now millennials are getting older, and welcome to the club, millennials, I'm here to say it's not so bad. But now millennials are turning 40, like, and they're like— you're becoming men— a mentor. You, you have mentees, I'm sure, and I love what you said in your book about how you really try to not give that much advice, where you just try to say like, I'm here and I'm available. Yeah, figuring out how to be a good mentor is really interesting. And I'm curious, you're not saying—

because I feel like sometimes I never want to get caught in the trap of thinking that I know better than they do. Like, if I see somebody doing something where I think that's going to really hurt you and, and damage— if I'm like, have the opportunity to sort of put my arm out like a seatbelt. But at the same time, I don't think I could hear it when I was that age.

Like, to use a great metaphor, not my pig, not my farm. Like, you can't save anybody from themselves. I mean, you know, this is some Cody stuff we're talking about. Like, I know when you see somebody, it's like, what are you going to be like? Don't do it. Like, what are you going to say? Don't do that job. Don't take it. Don't date that guy. Like, we all have to make these mistakes and nobody listens when you do anyway.

If someone has a question and I can answer it, I am delighted. And I'm also always saying, and then you do exactly whatever you want. Mm-hmm. And I will be here cheering you on.

Speaking of that, the way you talk about the productivity myth in your book. Yeah. Is it really spoke to me as a Gen Xer. So my gen grew up with like Working Girl and you wear your sneakers on the subway and like hustle, like, you know, and Madonna's documentary was like, I'm gonna play through the pain. And Lady Gaga's documentary was like, I'm, I have fibromyalgia and I'm really suffering. I'm, so Totally different. And both showed this, like, version of, like, how to get through what you're getting through. But we got sold this idea that if you're not producing, you're not worthwhile. And I know you struggled with that too. What can you say about that? Or what have you learned about that through the writing of this book or just through, like, living life?

Well, when I saw Five Foot Two, the Gaga documentary, that was one of the most— emotional. I remember I just kept rewinding because I'd never seen these things on camera before. And I always thought that if people found out what was going on with me physically behind the scenes, that they'd be like, "Well, this one's defective. We want a new one." I mean, yeah. And Hollywood has not done anything to make us think that isn't— that's right— the approach. I mean, we maybe can, can speak about things a little bit more. Maybe a producer would not feel comfortable saying out loud, "That one's defective. We want a new one." But the but the behavior remains the same. And so there was a lot of time of reminding myself that all of these people's ideas of what a valuable life is, of what— what— of the right way to spend your time, of how to prioritize your health versus the work, your health versus a press junket. Yeah. Didn't have to be mine. I remember once before a job them going, so how do you— how long before you get sick do you usually know that it's going to happen?

And I was like, it never even occurred to me that— that I was like, sometimes I don't know, like when it starts. I don't— I don't know what to say. There was this idea that you could almost like schedule your body's collapse.

It's funny you say that because my brain, like what this book did, is it like— which I think good writing does— is it makes you think about I'm like, "Wait, how am I thinking about the world?" And to your point, now what I'm realizing is what I wanna do to extend the conversation is be like, ask people how did they do their system? How do they work it? So that conversation you have with producers is really helpful.

I used to spend a lot of time thinking I was the only— I mean, it's that, you know, part of being young and looking around and thinking that everybody's facade is what's actually going on. Like, it took me a while to go, "Oh, just because somebody shows up in, just showered in Lululemon sweat clothes with a big cup of coffee. For me, the idea of the kind of woman I'd never be was always someone who like brewed her own coffee and put it in. In a thing. In a thing. In a Yeti cup. Yeah. And got to work and was like, oh, 'cause I like to do this in the morning. And I put like a little—

For me it was always a blowout. Like I was like, when did you get a blowout? Like who did it?

Who did it?

Where did you go? Did you go to Drybar? Did you do it yourself? Yeah, do you have someone who comes to your house? Is this day 3 of your blowout? These are, yeah. There's a question.

There's these things where we look and we go, I will never be. Everybody has it.

Everybody has it. We all have it.

And, and then I started to realize that's just their way of dealing. Like, I, I keep a really psychotic to-do list. I have this very specific to-do list system that is— I won't belabor, but it's taken years for me to find a system that works. I love my system. When I finish something, I put the trophy emoji next to it. Oh, for a little treat. Yeah, a little, my little treat. Because you did a trick. Yeah, I did a trick and I get a treat. And my treat is that trophy emoji. Yeah. And then at the end of the day, I'll carry over the things that didn't happen. And sometimes you have to put a different emoji that says, actually, I'm not gonna do that anymore. That's off the list or whatever.

I do wanna talk about your bed. You create so much in your bed. You love your bed.

I love my bed. I love my bed too.

I'm worried about your sleep. Okay. Talk to me about your sleep. Are you a night owl?

So this is gonna involve a little bit of history, which is that we have a, congenital terror. We have a congenital— it's something where, where sleep and death get equated early in childhood. My father had it, my mother had it. Maybe that's why they fell in love, and they passed it down to my brother and me. And as children, we started to get scared to go to sleep around 4 PM.

So yeah, still today a lot of people have that, that they are very stressed about the fact that they ever go to sleep.

Yeah, it would be— I would start around 3:00 PM to start to say, "Okay, what time do you think we're gonna put pajamas on? What do you think we're gonna do right before bed?" Then my father would have to tell me, right? He'd have to take me, and I'd say, "Is it a sock night or is it not a sock night?" 'Cause I was concerned maybe I'll wake up in the night with cold feet, but wouldn't it be horrible if I woke up and they were too warm? Then my— I miss Jenna Weiss-Berman's giggle. It's the greatest. It's the best. Then I would say, "Can you tell me a list of things things we're gonna do tomorrow to look forward to. Because I thought if I didn't, yeah, have things to look forward to, I might just pass away in my sleep. Yeah.

I would love to sleep train you. I would love to have a week in your house. I'm gonna wear a nurse's uniform.

Do you know what I would get?

And I'm gonna go, it's time. I'm gonna go and, and I'm gonna, and you're gonna start your business. You're gonna say, what kind of socks? What kind? I'm gonna go, no, no, no.

Chop chop. If I told you what was actually happening in my bed, the level of of the book, the various lights that are shining at me, the animals that are scooching around, the noise. I mean, twice a night my rabbits will hurl themselves up into the air and just land directly on my face. Let's stop at rabbits.

Let's start at rabbits. Let's ask the rabbits if they can sleep next to the bed.

Well, the rabbits also, you know, the thing about rabbits is they're, um, I don't know the thing, you don't know the thing, is that they are crepuscular, which means they're most awake at dawn and at dusk.

I might have an old-fashioned version of sleep, but I do think that one of the best things I did for myself is, yep, make sleep hygiene as important as other things. Wow. And it was very hard because, like you, I grew up with a total, like, I wanted to stay up late. I, like, I would have a TV in my room. Like, staying up late felt like something I was good at.

I felt the same way.

And I had SNL and I was a vampire.

And it was like, "I'm a widow!" And you know my thing when I was a teenager was that SNL reruns were on Comedy Central at midnight. And so I would, my parents, my bedroom was downstairs. We lived in this weird place in Brooklyn that was above a garage, but there was one little windowless room next to the garage, which was my room. And the landlord, JP, had left his single guy. It was like the most modern TV of 1993. Right. And I would plug in the headphones from like American Airlines and sit this close to the television and take notes on SNL. Oh, Lena. So sad.

I mean, comedy is so important. Not sad. I mean, that's— I mean, that's like an athlete, like just, you know, shooting hoops in their driveway.

I graduated from high school in 2004. So one thing that I did was at St. Ann's, we had student IDs, and the rule was that you could not come and get tickets to SNL unless you were— was it 16 or 18? I don't— it was— I think it might be 16. It was 16. Yeah. So I was 15 and wanted to go. Yeah. So I came up with a scheme, which was I was gonna go to get— act like I lost my school ID and have them reprint it and go, you guys got my birthday wrong, and then have them move the year. And they did. And then I felt too guilty and I confessed. That's before I could ever go. I was like, started to think about— you're like, this worked too well. Yeah, this was too— I could get addicted to this. And pretty soon I'm gonna be scamming men out of their money in Florida and putting them to sleep with a little injection. I can't be on this path.

I mean, you're speaking about like, the fact that 2001 is 25 years ago is insane. It's insane. There is such an incredible resurgence of your work, specifically Girls, but all of your work, and how people interact with your work. Do you think it is like this— I mean, it's like people write— I don't know. People attach it to this bigger idea of nostalgia, but what— Do you have a sense now of what it is? Like, why people are going back to that show, to you, to the feeling, that time? Do you have a sense of why?

Well, you know, it's interesting because I— know that a lot of— I don't equate my early 20s, and I think when people read the book they'll understand why, with the exception of some very specific moments, I don't like equate my early 20s with like a sense of jubilance and freedom, just because it was really the moment when sort of adult life and adult pressure descended. So it's interesting, and it's cozy. Like, when I want to be cozy, I watch Parks and Recreation, or as my husband calls Parks and Recreations. Oh, with an S! Yeah. And he— I like that. And once I said, "You know there's no S on the end." And he went, "You're wrong." But, um— And I knew that I— I think maybe I've told you this, but I knew that I loved him because I left my dog with him for the day while I was on set. And it was a big thing for me to be like, "Okay, I'm gonna leave her with you, not with this dog sitter. Let's see what happens." And I texted to check in, and he said, "We're just watching some Parks and Recreations." She loves John Ralphio.

And I went, "Okay." "Okay, that's a good guy." "Okay, you can stay." "That's a keeper." "You can stay." I would watch Parks and Recreation to relax, but the idea that— And to me, I'm like, Girls is like a stress bomb.

Like, it's like watching— Let's talk about this. I agree. Girls can be a stress bomb.

Girls is a stress bomb. It's a stressful show. I feel like when I'm watching Girls, I'm like watching one of those movies where somebody has like 10 minutes to disseminate a bomb. Like, it's not—

But it really, really relaxes people. And I think it reminds them of it. Time. It reminds them of time in their lives and a time in the characters' lives.

And a lot of people say to me, people who are on the old— on the more 40 end will go like, "I lived in— I lived off the Lorimer stop when I was 23 with my two best friends from college. And, you know, now one of them's dead and one of them's a Republican." You know, like, they are looking back at a moment that felt really good and alive to them. And I love that they think that the girls are cozy and feel like they're there friends like that. Yeah. And also, all I ever wanted to make— I always was sad, like, I'm never going to be the person who makes cozy TV that makes anyone want to curl up and— But so if it is that for people, I also think there's something— even though the show does have social media, even though the show, you know, there's, there's like a conversation in the first episode, and I've never watched Girls since we finished. So I really—

you've never done a rewatch? I've never done a rewatch.

I've never done a rewatch. I just I guess I'm always thinking, and I don't know, do you ever watch things old world?

I rewatched Parks and Rec with— Parks and Recreation, um, with my kids. They love it. I, I would suggest someday you do because— Rewatch Parks and Recreation? Yes. I have. Rewatch Girls because, um, it is just a really like concrete way to be more gentle to yourself.

Like, oh, that's so sweet.

You just, all the stuff that you would maybe be critical of kind of goes away. Goes away. I— at least it did for me. And you just remembered the feeling. Like, I didn't even remember what happened. I was like, what happens here? Does Leslie win? Like, I couldn't even remember the plot, but I could remember the feeling of making the scenes. Like, the— it was like a body feeling, and it made me feel, um, grateful. It made me feel really grateful. And I wonder— I would wish that for you. I don't know if you will feel that, but maybe, maybe. I think—

I mean, I love those people, and I love that. And there were so many wonderful times, you know. After Andrew Rannells read the book, he He was like, "It made me sad at some points because I felt like we were having so much fun, and then I read it and it didn't feel like you were having fun." And I was like, "No. When we were on screen, that was the best thing ever. That was my escape from everything else that was happening in my mind." I always felt like I could open a door into being those people. And I remember feeling like this, and it's the only time I ever really felt this way because I'm not like a mystical actor in this way, but I just— I felt like my— whatever Lena's problems are go away, and like the problems of these particular people, which feel sort of light and inconsequential at the end of the day, took over. And so I was like, "No, I always felt joy when I was with you. I always felt joy when I was linked, hands linked with these people doing this thing." It was everything that came with it that was hard.

What do you think people who write about Girls, or wrote about Girls, got wrong about it?

At the time, it was like there was two ends of the spectrum, which is there are people who thought we weren't in on the joke at all. That we were— thought that we were making, like, you know, a pressing film about the concerns of America's neediest population, and that we just were really missing the mark. And then there were the people who thought that I was, like, so in on the joke that I remember there being conservative commentators who were like, "Actually, this is a— you know, this is— she's skewering woke millennials, and she's taking them down." And I was like, "Actually, something can live totally between those places," which is— because we take them totally seriously, and we totally get what's funny about it. Yeah. People underestimate young women all the time. Yes. And it was funny. It was like, if people didn't like the show, it was my fault. If they did like the show, it was the fault of someone else. It was just— Yes. It was— And really looking back now, if somebody— People come to me a lot and will go like, "Someone's saying something mean about me on the internet.

What do I do?" And I always go, "Just don't look at it." Yeah. Just don't look at it. It. But I couldn't take that advice. That, of course, that's why it's— when you were asking like, how do you like talking about the book, how do you not like talking about the book, and then I circled away from that, I'm gonna circle, yeah, back, is sometimes people will ask me, you know, why do you think people felt this way about you, or why do you think people felt— why do you think people had a strong reaction to you? And I go, it's ultimately like not really my problem.

Not only is it not your problem, it's not your business. How about that? That's even better. The way people think about you is none of your business.

It's not your business, though.

It's not your business. It's truly not. It's just like— And that is—

I'm checking into the hotel under the name "Non Ya Business." Non Ya Business.

Also a book written by one of us. When you were writing the characters for Girls, did you think it was a show about female friendship?

I thought, yes. I thought it was a show about female friendship, but I was like, it's a show about— about like the fact that female friendship is actually, uh, until you figure out what is and isn't your business, it's a thorny torture scape. And yeah, because the thing about women is I'm obsessed with them, and part of why I'm obsessed with them is also because I'm scared of them because they're too smart. I see. Do you know what I mean? You might not kind of feel that way.

I don't, I don't, but I understand what you mean because it is I think it's very honest to bring up the fact that complicated people, interesting, complicated people, often provide complicated, interesting relationships. They do. And there were times when I would watch Girls, and I'd be like, "Are they friends?" The answer was often no.

Yeah. I mean, they were holding on to an idea. Part of the reason they were friends is because sometimes when people are young, they hold on to certain friends not just because of the good feelings they give them, but because they get to feel superior, or they get to feel— yes, um, they get to feel like in contrast they're winning, or they get to feel like they're shinier because they're next to the pretty person, whatever it is. And you're still like— you're not— when you're in your 20s, you're not even that far out of high school. Yeah, you don't even— haven't even yet let go of all that stuff. And now this isn't to say I'm— I have amazing My female friends are incredible. I'm not afraid of them. But I also— in my— there's something about the ways that women can see each other and know each other that can feel very exposing. And the thing that's really nice is now I feel that the majority of my female relationships have— there was just a day where I woke up and went, I haven't had to exchange a really heavy email in a while.

Like, I haven't had to— remember once having a fight with a, um, girlfriend in, in our 20s, and we were like going back and forth in these long point-to-point— now I will not— if someone raises points with me, I will not be addressing the points. Like, I'm not going— I'm not—

you're not bolding the points and then here are my responses to them. I'm not a lawyer.

I'm not going to make notes on your DocuSign and send it back to you. That's not what's happening. But we were doing that, and I remember showing it to like a boyfriend outrage. And he was like, I don't even know what I mean. It's like you guys are in like a Scholastic writing competition and you're each trying to write the best essay about why the other one is bad at being a friend if you feel this way. And then, and then moments later everyone's apologizing, going, I didn't mean any of that. And it's like, well, that was a lot of energy to expend on this creative writing exercise.

Say like the kids say, say less, say less, say less.

Yes, that's a hard one. Someone told me recently that if somebody writes you— I mean, have you ever seen that meme where someone's like, "Congrats," or, "Sorry that happened to you. I don't know. I'm not trying to read all that"? Somebody writes someone I really like text.

Yes, I know. I'm not trying to read all that.

Yeah, I'm not trying to read all that.

Aubrey Plaza on the set of Parks used to take my phone when I was texting someone, and she would erase it and then just write, "No." And I'd be like, "Oh, I guess I could say that too.

I could just say no." There's a big thing, which is my brother taught me.

He's like, "Do not ever reply with more lines than the person wrote you." It's funny, your parents, you know, you talk about it in your book, you have really successful art, um, artist parents who are in that art world, which is, talk about it, it like in the rooms that are small. I mean, there's like, There's, like, high fashion. There's, like, hyper-intellectualism. There's— And there's the art world that they both live in.

It can only get smaller if you're like, "Well, the contact improv dance community that came out of Oberlin College, where Jenna and I went, is pretty niche." Improv contact dance?

Babe, that is wide open. Anybody can get in there.

Improv— You just gotta keep one point of contact between your bodies for the whole time. Whole time.

It's such a perv fest. Like, anything that's like, we have to touch each other, you're like, why?

I remember I went to one of the classes when I was at Oberlin because I used to do like a column for the Oberlin Grape. Shout out to all you, to all you Grape writers out there. And, um, it was like I'd go and try things on campus, see what I thought of them. Ooh, I'm going to do capoeira today. And I went and did contact improv, and basically my thesis was like, perverts. Like, that was— I left because I remember they were like, okay, now everybody remove one article of clothing of your choice. And everyone was like, pants, You know? It was right away.

I mean, that is the thing about the 2000s is you look back and you're pretty much like, you could just take a stamp to pretty much everything and be like, "Perverts." Yeah. But before we get off Girls, when— Now we're getting into the weeds, but when Jessa betrayed Hannah. Yeah. That was hard.

That was hard for a lot of people. That was hard for— Jemima didn't want to do it. I bet. Jemima was like, "Don't make me do this." I bet.

It's a real villain move. But what it allowed us, I think, in the writing, was it allowed us to really see Hannah in a way that we hadn't yet. And also, it was just like the end of a cycle of story.

I also think that part of the reason that the way she justified that to herself in the moment is that she was like, "Well, Hannah hasn't maybe always been the most considerate friend to me." And she might have had— Hannah might have this idea, "Here's what friends don't do." They don't sleep with your boyfriend, your ex-boyfriend, and they don't— I don't know, you know, they don't sleep with your ex-boyfriend, they don't push you in front of a car, and everything else is fair game. And she's like, "No, you've cut away at our friendship with all of these other little moves." And the other thing is, because Hannah doesn't see herself as a person with any power, she doesn't realize that she's capable of hurting anybody else's feelings. She's— The world is happening to her. And I hope that as she grows, she realizes that actually she is often happening to the world.

And I just wanna— I gotta say, kudos to you for that moment, not only because it was audacious writing and just good moving the story forward, but we were paying attention to Jessa and Hannah. Like, that's who we were caring about.

It's really nice. And it's, you know, Jemima and I have been friends since we were 11. Yeah. So it was always really interesting when we got to really dig into the story together. Yeah. 'Cause often we were just, you know, Yeah, in the same, in the same room, at the same party, raising our eyebrows at the same thing. And when we got to do those big chunky emotional scenes together, it was amazing. But I do remember her when I was directing the scene where she and Adam kissed for the first time. She was really— I could see her panic because it went against every instinct she had about behavior. And I had to say, I'm not— he's not really my boyfriend, and I'm not really going to get mad at you, right? Wait, he's actually just acting. Acting. And so are we. And at the end of the day, neither of us kissed each other's ex-boyfriend, so we're going to be fine. Yeah. And probably even if one of us did kiss each other's ex-boyfriend, we'd be fine.

And you were like, put on this Patagonia lightweight. Put on this Patagonia lightweight set.

And call this man to paint your walls, and we're going to be fine. And we're going to be fine.

Yeah. Okay. I want to get your hot takes on a few things. Okay, great. These are completely random things, but I feel like you have strong hot takes that I would love to hear about. Okay, And there's no right or wrong. Okay. TikTok. I spent—

you're amazing on TikTok. And thank you.

Welcome to TikTok. I've seen your TikToks. My algorithm knows who I am, obviously, and a lot of them are from your bed.

But what I like about TikTok, I mean, I'm sure like everything, the culture is changing, but what I like about it is it seems like it's allowed a lot of people to find like-minded folks and to find people who are— I always see like like a woman alone in a farmhouse feeding grizzly bears from a pan who's found her friends. And that I like.

Found your friends. And also I think there's just good comedy there.

There's, I think there's good comedy. There's good comedy. Yeah. There's good educational content. Yeah. And you know, I don't wanna be watching someone like sell me a Freckle Stick, but I do. Yeah. I mean, my TikTok algorithm when I still had it was women with pigs. And I like when there's— in Australia, where sex work is legal, I love to watch women count their money and talk about their experiences.

And their money counters.

Yeah, I love that. And I love the ASMR nails.

Also, I like the women who work at exotic dancing clubs and are at the front, and you don't see the patrons, but you see them deciding who's gonna come in.

Yes, I love that too. I love that.

Women at work.

I love women at work in all ways. I love— and sometimes what's hard is you'll watch someone over time and they start really authentic, and then you see like a little taste of— I mean, this is what I was talking about in the book. A little taste of fame makes us all sick. It's not— It's very true.

Shorter question. Diet Coke, yes or no?

Do you know the kids have been calling it fridge cigs? Yeah. Love it. I love Diet Coke. I don't think it's an everyday thing. Agree. My mother— It's a treat. It's a treat.

If you do a treat, If you do a trick, you get a Diet Coke.

When I— my mother, every time she gets a mammogram, and since she was 40, she— every time she gets a mammogram, she gets a New York City hot dog and a Diet Coke. A dirty water hot dog and a Diet Coke. So it's her— she has the full carcinogens package after a successful mammogram. Meg Salter. Oh, Mary. Oh, I'm so excited. We love Meg. We love Meg. I'm so excited. I mean, just what Glee will be that— I mean, that show. That woman. She's such a funny, special person.

She is hilarious. I've had the pleasure of working with her a few times. Also, I'm loving how she's interacting, talking about like fame and the internet. She found her way. She found something really interesting. Least favorite current fashion trend?

I've always said that my style is like bratty 5-year-old with a credit card.

Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

You feel that, right? Like it's like a girl who's like, my dad gave me this and he said I can get whatever I want. And then You just can, because so many of the things that— also because my parents have good taste. When I was a kid, a lot was like, "You don't want that. That's not— You don't want that sparkly leopard velour tunic and matching leg warmers." Yes, I do. And now I'm an adult who makes my own money, and I can have it.

I get that vibe from you. You're very high-low in that way. Like, I love that you know a ton about really very esteemed artists and writers. And then also, you don't feel like a snob about it. It's hard because New York kids can sometimes have access to stuff, and then people feel like they're not allowed to get in the room. And you do not give off that vibe.

I'm glad. I mean, I love reality television. Yeah. Do you still love reality television?

I don't, but I— I— I— Do you used to? No. I mean, I wasn't a Housewives fan because it fucks with my nervous system a little bit. I get it. The way people are arguing and misunderstanding each other. I do enjoy a Below Deck. I enjoy jobs-based reality shows.

You like jobs-based programming. And I will say one nice thing about England is there's a lot of shows that you can watch that are unscripted but relaxing. There's a lot of, like, would you like to watch this? This very well-decorated female historian take you on a tour of the oldest castle in Wales? Mary Beard, we live for you. And— or would we like to, you know, I mean, Great British Bake Off's an example.

Incredible. But that's not reality, in my opinion. Well, I— I mean, I guess it's real.

I got asked to go on the Great British Bake Off. They do, like, a charity celebrity bake-off. And I went, "I don't cook. I don't cook. I don't clean. Let me tell you how I got that ring. I don't have anything to do with it." But I thought, "Okay, like, this is a— Surely they can't expect that much of us. They're not calling in chefs. They're calling in actors and writers." And they put me on the phone with a producer and said, like, "The first challenge is gonna be a crumpet challenge. You are supposed to make a crumpet that expresses." who you are. Okay. So I was like, well, I have British Shorthair cats. They're gray. I could do a crumpet that had, like, some gray coloring and then do ears on it and then eyes, and it could be like my cats as a crumpet. And they went, okay, great. So maybe almond butter could be the eyes, and you could do some sort of like a raspberry jam for the mouth. Paul obviously does not— is not comfortable with any store-bought jams or butters. So— but we have a really simple pistachio butter recipe that we could send you.

And I actually have a great short book on making jam. Wait, what? And I was like— Making jam? Making jam. And then I said, you know, I've never cooked a crumpet. Is there some, like, basics? Do I have to go back to some basics? And they said, well, there's a great book called The Science of Baking, which we can send you, which kind of— And then I started to describe it to Michael, my business partner. He's like, have you lost your ever-loving mind? Like, are you about to put in— And then I was going to go over to my friend Rose's sister's house because she bakes. And she was like, I actually do have a familial crumpet recipe that if you try it 9, 10 times and then And then they said to me, um, ovens go on at 8:00 AM and off at 6:00 PM. And I made some joke and I was like, well, at least you guys will help me turn those on. They was like, oh no, we're not allowed to touch any of the knobs. And I just went, we're, we're outta here. We're outta here. I'm sorry guys. Love that for you.

We're outta here. I love that no for you.

That's a good no.

And, and I, cause I love to try to become an expert at something really quickly. Yes. But this was beyond, this was way beyond anything that I could handle.

Plus the tension of Paul not being happy.

Paul's not comfortable with any of these store-bought jams.

Yeah, those husky eyes shooting lasers at you because of the jam. Okay, the new Muna album, do you love it?

Of course, I love everything that Muna touches. Theme parks, do you love them? I do not think that I have been to a theme park in adulthood, and it may be one of the only things I'm comfortable saying I won't do again before I die.

You? I agree. I respectfully decline. Would you ever have a robot in your house?

I think that my— I think that I would cathect onto and anthropomorphize the robot too much.

Sorry, what was the word you used?

Cathect. Whoa.

Tell me if I used it correctly. Incredible. New word alert.

Cathect? Cathect. Tell me what you're seeing. Cathect. I'm not even going to define.

I'm just going to say it. It's a verb that means to invest mental or emotional energy into a person, object, object or idea. So like, um, anthropomorphize? Kind of. I would anthropomorphize the robot.

They often— therapists will sometimes say, like, if you are projecting on— they'll say, like, we've had an— we've had an episode of cathexis. Would you have a robot in your house?

I would, but I feel like I'd be able to control it until I— until it killed me. Okay. And then, um, you— we've talked about, um, my producer Jenna, who you have known for 20 years. Yes, I I have a question. What was Jenna like when she was 23?

Jenna was cool, like Jenna still is. Jenna was like a cool, hot hipster who knew all— who lived in Brooklyn and knew all— in like the one of— one of the— I was still in college and went to go hang out at Jenna's apartment. It was on the second floor on Atlantic Avenue, kind of. Correct, right? And it was on the second floor in Atlantic Avenue, and she like a rustic boat wheel that they had upcycled and used as like a piece of wall ornamentation. Oh my God, Jenna. And Jenna wore like one of those little, you know, bike messenger hats. Sure. And I will always remember, I'm gonna embarrass Jenna right now. Jenna had a girlfriend. I don't wanna upset anyone, but Jenna had a girlfriend. Jenna can always cut this. Jenna always can cut this if she wants. She's the boss. Yeah. And I love that, like, I used to get to sleep in a room like we had like multiple twin beds. For some reason there was like a room with 3 twin beds and only 2 girls at Oberlin. At Oberlin we had a room, somehow we'd gotten lucky. And so I pushed 2 of them together to make a queen and then somehow ended up like in my queen with Jenna having to share the single with somebody else.

And interesting. And I was sort of like, you guys share the single? Share the single? Girlfriend. And, uh, and I remember going, saying some, using some insane logic, I was like, listen, you guys should feel really lucky you have each other. And what I have is this queen that I made out of two shitty old mattresses.

Hold on, so just to go over it. Yeah. When you and Jenna were in college, Jenna was sharing a single with her girlfriend.

Who was my roommate.

And you had a queen.

Yeah, that I made out of two mattresses.

And you were feeling still victimized by that.

Correct. Yeah. I was like, guys, you know, it's like kind of hard to just be sitting here as a single person having a look at all this love. I've been through a lot. And so, and also you might remember that I had to go home from college last year because I have chronic mono. So, so just think about other people. I shouldn't have done that, Jenna, and I'm sorry. Looking back, it's deranged behavior, but we only have to make things make sense to us, really. That's right.

Okay. And then let's talk about good sex, because so we have this thing. Yeah. Good Sex is a new movie coming out on Netflix. It's a rom-com that you wrote and directed. Yep. Natalie Portman spoke to us today. We got a question from Natalie. "Natty!" And who spoke so beautifully about you as a person and as a director. Said something that I just, like, I will really think about and take with me, which is that she felt very seen by you when she was being directed by you. Of course, she felt like you set a tone for not only, like, everyone on the set, on set, but you were paying very close attention to what people were doing. And also just, like, gave specific feedback when you liked something, which I know sounds like, "Duh!" But it's not always the case because we are so— we have such a bias to talk about what needs to be fixed, and we kind of forget to say, like, "Oh, that was good. I like that.

Good job." Well, it's funny. Firstly, I'm so— Natalie Portman is, I mean, I mean, she was such a big deal to me when I was a youth, 'cause she was just the cool girl's cool girl, the— the— thingy woman's ingenue, the everything. And meeting her was one of the rare moments where I really kind of got tongue-tied and goofy. And then she makes you feel really cozy. But getting to work with her and getting to know her and getting to know her magic and her friendship with Rashida, which has existed for, like, almost 30 years— She's just— She's everything you'd think she would be. But I feel like it's only— You know how we were saying, like, women are so good at things that they're then punished for it? Like, they— People go, "Well, you did that well. I guess you'll just keep doing that well, and we'll lay more on you." Natalie is such a good actress, and she's such a good actress even in moments where she doesn't have to be. She exudes it. Like, you have a shot that's, like, her on a telephoto lens crossing the street in traffic, and she does something interesting with her face.

So I was like, I think that's it. I think that almost people don't want to say, "You're the most amazing actress I've ever seen," because they feel like it makes them look, like, gauche or dorky, or they should just be accepting this as reality. But every single day, I went, "That's insane what you're doing right now." And watching her be goofy is so fun, 'cause she is a big goof.

She's a goof. Well, she had a great goofy question for you. I'm so excited! She said— and it's funny 'cause we talked about this, we started talking about this. She said, "What is the best pair?" "to adopt." 'Cause she said, "You have pet pigs." We talked about pigs. She wants to know what kind of pig. 'Cause we got into— she's in Paris. Apparently, there's a wild boar situation in Paris. I don't wanna get into it. I don't wanna get political. But we— and she knows that she's not ready to be a pig parent yet where she is.

She's a rabbit parent, but she's not ready to be a pig parent. And she's a really good dog mom too. But what's the best kind of pig? Yes, to adopt. Well, in your opinion. Okay, so obviously there's— so here's something for anyone at home to know if you're thinking about adopting a pig. Very good. There— if someone tells you that you are getting a teacup pig, you are not. If someone tells you you're getting a mini pig, you're not. A mini pig is any pig that's under 500 pounds, is what is classed as a mini pig.

Very important to know.

Unlike a farm sow, which can go up to like 1,400 pounds, and also Pigs, unlike dogs, like, you don't have a sense from their piglet size of how big they're gonna be because they keep growing until they're 5. Wow. And they also— another fact about pigs, not 2 sets of teeth, 3 sets of teeth. They lose their teeth twice. Um, and I've been saving all those pig teeth for a rainy day, just for a nightmare, some kind of nightmare scenario.

That's exactly right.

2 of the pigs that are in my life are Meishan pigs. Meishan pigs are— they're now actually classed as critically endangered, but they They are a Chinese species that dates back at least 5,000 years. They look like— they're famous for a few things. They're amazing mothers. They have huge litters, up to like 17 or 18 at a time, and they mother them expertly. Oh dear. They look like little elephants. Wow. And they don't root a lot, and they don't— they forage, not root, and they're just chillers. And so if you have a dog space, you might think, let me go with the smallest pig, that will be easiest. But actually, a Meishan is a great cozy— I think really good beginner. A beginner pig, a beginner pig, 17 or 18 piglets. The only thing is that I've learned is a solo pig's not nice.

I know, because solo animals in general—

so animals in general, but a dog seems like they can get a lot of what they need from like, you're my buddy, you're my buddy, I'm gonna go out in the street and see my buddies. Yeah, pigs can't can't just— because they're very territorial, they can't just like casually have playdates with another pig. They either need to be in a life together. And when I got my first pig, Victor, who I thought would be a solo pig, he was talking all day long. And I just thought, I'm trying, buddy, but I don't know what you're saying. And so that's why we got Cherry.

Cherry and Victor.

Yeah. And it was an arranged marriage.

It feels like a Neil Simon play.

It was an arranged marriage. We didn't know how it would go. And what I loved is that the first day that we let them, he went over and kind of started to, like, get a little aggro with her, and she bit him on the butt as hard as she could. And from that day on, he was like, "It's your scene, lady." Like, he's—

It's like a rom-com. Yeah, it was a pig rom-com.

And now she spends a lot of time sitting on his head.

Oh, and she took off her little pig glasses, and he was like, "You're beautiful." Lena Dunham Amy Poehler. So lovely to talk to you. I'm so happy you could come. Thank you. Congratulations on your movie. Congratulations on your book. And, um, um, you know, I— we've known each other for a very long time. It's really, really nice to see you again.

Really nice to see you too. You are a really— I mean, it's a well-named— I said to someone when I was going to podcast, I was like, and it's not a lie, she's a good hang. Thanks, dude.

Right back at you. Happy 40th, babe. Thanks. Come on over to the other side. It's so great over here. Thank you so much, Lena Dunham. Just so smart and interesting. Such a great discussion with you. And thank you so much for being here. And, you know, Lena is a New York City kid, and we're gearing up for a New York City summer. And for all you people headed to Broadway, I want to use this Polar Plunge to remind you that 3 champions, 3 comedic giants are on Broadway right now as we speak. And that is Ana Gasteyer in Schmigadoon! That is Maya Rudolph in On Your Feet! Oh Mary, and that is Rachel Dratch in The Rocky Horror Picture Show. So get your tickets, babe, because this kind of event only happens every 100 years when all of these beautiful women are on stage at the same time. And aren't we lucky to be alive when that's happening? So, congratulations, ladies. And congratulations to you if you get a chance to see them. And thank you for listening, and see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simpson Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler.

The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Alea Xaneres. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

I like other one who puts a really good hey.