Transcript of Sandra Birchmore's texts. Arrest in "The People's Court" cold case. Plus, job scams.

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You're listening in to the Dateline morning meeting.

There's nothing there.

There are no clues. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news.

He said he was always the suspect.

What was the motive?

Why? Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm José Díaz-Balart, NBC News anchor and host of Dateline en Español, in for Andrea Canning. It's October the 22nd, and here's what's on our docket. In Orlando, Florida, a stunning arrest in the case of a mother of 3 who went missing just a few hours after she appeared on an episode of the TV show The People's Court. He said that he wanted his ring, so I took it off and I threw it at him. In Dateline Roundup, a new twist in the O.J. Simpson case, and the judge presiding over Alex Murdaugh's retrial has strong words for the attorneys. This has got to stop. This is court. This isn't a soundbite, okay? Plus, scammers who prey on young people looking for work. NBC News Chief Consumer Investigative Correspondent Vicky Nguyen will be here with some safety tips.

Be wary of random job offers, right? No one's just gonna reach out to you and offer you a high-paying position out of the blue.

But before that, we're heading back to Boston, where graphic and sometimes upsetting texts have taken center stage at the trial of former police officer Matthew Farwell. who has been charged with killing pregnant teacher's aide Sandra Birchmore. A warning for listeners, this story includes discussion of suicide and sexual abuse. It's week 3 in the trial of Matthew Farwell, former Stoughton police officer accused of strangling 23-year-old Sandra Birchmore to death at her apartment on February 1st, 2021, and then staging the scene to make it look like a suicide. Prosecutors say Farwell murdered Birchmore to stop her from exposing their sexual relationship, which began, they say, when she was underage. Farwell has denied it all. He says he didn't have sex with Sandra when she was a minor and that he didn't kill her. This week, the jury got to hear Sandra's own words about the relationship as prosecutors called investigators to the stand to testify about tens of thousands of messages they discovered on her phone and laptop. Here to walk us through this evidence is Dateline producer Cassie Marshall, who was in the courtroom. Cassie, great seeing you. Thanks for being with us.

Thank you. Thanks for having me here.

Cassie, understanding the history of Sandra and Farwell's relationship is key to the prosecution's theory of what happened to her. Can you just remind listeners what prosecutors are alleging?

Yes, sure. So Sandra Birchmore joined the Stoughton Police Explorers Program. This is a program geared towards teaching kids interested in fields of law enforcement. And Matthew Farwell was an instructor in the program. Then, according to the prosecution, they started having sex when Sandra was 15, which is statutory rape, illegal. And the sexual relationship continued to the time of Sandra's death when she was 23.

What do prosecutors say triggered him to kill Sandra?

Well, it's interesting, José. According to the prosecution, Sandra was starting to threaten Farwell with exposing their affair to his wife. And also, in the weeks before her death, one of Sandra's friends called the police department where Farwell worked and exposed their relationship, saying that Sandra was sleeping with him. It's clear that Farwell became very upset, and the prosecutors feel like he had a problem that he could no longer control in his mind. And so the solution was getting rid of Sandra.

So that's the prosecution theory. This week, jurors got to hear about some of the actual communications Sandra and Farwell exchanged over the years. How did investigators get their hands on them?

After Sandra's death, investigators had Sandra's devices. So they had her current iPhone, they had her old iPhone, and they had her MacBook laptop. So they could look for communications on that. And there were over 24,000 of them.

24,000?

That's a lot.

Sandra was constantly online, constantly texting, reaching out to friends and family. And she was a prolific texter, especially with Farwell.

Cassie, as the agent walked the jury through these messages, they were presented in a unique kind of way, almost like a play.

Yeah. So, the FBI special agent would read Sandra's text messages, and then the prosecutor would read Farwell's responses. So, it was that back and forth reading that sort of brought the text messages to life. And they weren't overly theatrical at all, but they did give you sort of like more of a feeling of it. And there were a lot of them, and they were very, very detailed. A lot of them were quite disturbing, frankly. Some of them had to do with violence, violence rape fantasies or sexual fantasies. Some of them had to do with the first time Sandra had sex. These weren't at the time that Sandra was 15. They were much later. But Sandra remembered the date, and Farwell responded, and they talked about the details of it and how it happened. I mean, you know, disturbing stuff, but very, very detailed.

What were the reactions when these readings of these text messages were carried out?

You know, it's interesting that the jury is hyperfocused. Um, you know, I give them credit for that because there's a lot being thrown their way. They each have individual monitors, so they were, you know, looking down. They were just really focused on what they were being presented.

So in a way, the prosecution is painting a picture of a relationship that went on for years, right? I mean, Farwell got married, he had kids, and they say what's obvious from the messages is that Sandra began to get Frustrated with Farwell.

Yes, yes. I mean, what was interesting about the messages is she called him several times in the messages her best friend. I mean, she really looked up to him. And then, you know, as she got older and learned about the life he was having with his wife and the children, she really wanted that, and she wanted it with him. And so when he was starting to show that that's not what he wanted and sort of was pulling back, it was clear she was frustrated, she was hurt. Sometimes It was clear by the end, they were angry with each other.

Yeah. And what happened next is that Sandra demanded that Farwell get her pregnant.

By the time she finds out that he had a third child, she started saying, okay, I really want to have a child. I want to have it with you. She put the pressure on him to make it happen, or, you know, sort of saying, I'm going to expose this.

And then there's that December 28th, 2020, I guess, text when lab work confirmed that Sandra was pregnant. She then texted Farwell, Congrats, we're going to be parents. How did he respond to that?

He wasn't happy. He was mad. He didn't feel like she should be reaching out to him, and he wanted to table it to talk about it in person.

So did he believe that he was the father of Sandra's unborn baby? And was he?

The prosecution says that, yes, that that's what he believed. But it did turn out after Farwell's arrest, not before his arrest, that DNA testing was done, and it was determined that he wasn't.

So in these texts, as you say, there are tens of thousands of them. A lot of them show conflict. It also sounds like Sandra and Farwell argued when they got together in person as well.

Yes. She shared with a couple of her friends via text that he had come over, he was angry, he was standing by her. And if you saw photos of them, Jose, there is a huge disparity in their appearances. Sandra is like olive 4'10, 5 feet maybe, and he's like 6'4 and huge. And she looks much younger than her age. So there's a huge weight and height difference. And so she says that she felt fear because he was pulling out the phone and her laptop from her hands. And then at one point, sort of pushing her or shoving her with his full body weight, which frightened her. And she shared that with friends.

How did the defense handle the special agent on cross?

The text messages about the statutory rape, they did not address. They did, in terms of the messages about the violent sex and just the fact that they did have a lot of sex in different places, sort of focus on the fact that she was an adult. I'm assuming suggesting that this is consensual at this point.

Cassie, there was a moment there where the defense actually questioned the realism of these texts, fantasy versus fact.

Exactly. Exactly. They seem to be suggesting, like, how do we know that actually happened? Or is it just, you know, them talking about it via text? And then, there were also notebooks that they put into evidence, Sandra's notebooks. There was an entry from Sandra's notebook that I think it went back to 2017, 4 years before her death. But it seemed like a goodbye letter, a suicide note. Um, and so, they had that read aloud, and that was impactful. They were talking about, like, her having a history of mental health issues.

So, the defense, we have to remember, is saying that Sandra wasn't killed. but she rather died by suicide because Farwell broke up with her. What about Farwell's phone? Did investigators examine that?

So, he had 2 phones. He had a personal and he had a professional phone. So, the phone that he gave the state police, he said that he'd already erased the communications with him and Sandra because he was breaking up with her. And then the work phone from the Stoughton PD, there was no communications with Sandra on that phone. Um, but they did find a couple of searches, as I recall, that were interesting. he searched, can deleted messages be retrieved by Cellebrite? Which is a technology that law enforcement uses to retrieve deleted messages. So, from the prosecution side, I'm thinking they're suggesting he deleted the messages so that they wouldn't see what was going on with Sandra. But his story to investigators is, I didn't want anything to do with her anymore, so I was erasing my contact with her.

So, what's next in this case?

So, next, it seems like we're gonna hear from more of Sandra's friends, and then we're actually supposed to hear from the father of Sandra's baby. So, um, all we know about him right now, we know his name. He was an Army recruiter. But we'll find out more about how they met and if there's any sort of relationship between him and Farwell. I don't know if there is, but we'll find out.

Cassie Marshall, thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. Good seeing you, José.

Coming up, 15 years ago, an Orlando woman appeared on an episode of the People's Court TV show. Within hours, she had vanished. Last week, police announced the man was under arrest for her murder. We'll tell you all about it. The case that shocked Massachusetts. A pregnant young woman dead. A former Stoughton police officer accused of her murder. Now he's on trial. NBC 10 Boston is inside the courtroom every day, following every twist. Don't miss every twist, every revelation, and every critical moment. With expert legal insight and analysis night after night, this is coverage you won't find anywhere else. Commonwealth Confidential: The Sandra Birchmore Case. Download the podcast today. Watch full episodes on the NBC 10 Boston YouTube channel. The midterms are just around the corner, and it's safe to say there's been a lot of noise about the election. Well, now it's time to lock in. What's really on the ballot this November? And what's really at stake? We'll get you up to speed on all of it. I'm NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Garrett Haake, and every Saturday from now to Election Day, I'm hosting Here's the Scoop: Election Edition. We'll talk to some of the smartest voices about the top issues that are going to define this election, from President Trump's influence to the war with Iran, to affordability and AI in politics.

We're diving into all of it and what it could all mean for the direction of the country. Join me every Saturday. Just search Here's the Scoop wherever you listen and follow now. Over the years, I've met people whose lives were changed forever in a single moment. In my new podcast, Before and After, I explore what happens after that decisive moment. Personal, powerful conversations with Colin Kaepernick, Jeremy Renner, Gabby Giffords, and others. Join me wherever you Listen to all episodes of Before and After with Lester Holt now, wherever you get your podcasts. On November 17th, 2011, Michelle Parker, a mom of 3 and aspiring beauty stylist, stood before a judge in an episode of the TV show The People's Court alongside her ex-fiancé Dale Smith Jr. Dale told the judge Michelle owed him money for a lost engagement ring. She threw the ring, and it bounced over the railing and down 9 floors. This is what Michelle had to say about Dale.

It just—

it's been a hell of a roller coaster ride, and it's poison, and we're done.

A few hours after the episode aired, Michelle didn't show up for her shift at the Orlando, Florida bar where she worked. And the next day, her car was found abandoned on the other side of town. Michelle was never seen again. The mystery of what happened to Michelle Parker sparked an almost 15-year police investigation. Last week, Orlando Police announced a stunning update. This morning, OPD's Fugitive Task Force and SWAT team arrested Dale Smith Jr., Michelle's ex-fiancé, on a charge of second-degree murder. Here to bring us up to speed on the case is NBC News correspondent George Solis. George, great seeing you. Thanks for being with us.

Thanks for having me, Jose.

George, this case grabbed national attention within days of Michelle's disappearance, with coverage on the Today Show and Nightly News. In Florida, police are searching for a missing mom who vanished after appearing on an episode of The People's Court. Who was Michelle?

She was 33 years old. She was working as a bartender, and she owned a spray tanning business, and she had just graduated from beauty school. She had hopes to join the family business. Her mom and sister had a salon, and she was a devoted mom. She had an older child from a previous relationship, but she also had twins with Dale Smith Jr.

Yeah.

What do we know about their relationship at the time?

Well, Jose, it was rocky at best. They had an on-again, off-again relationship since 2006. Michelle actually took a restraining order out against Dale that was later overturned by a judge, but they seemed to patch things up somewhat in 2010 when they got engaged, but that quickly fell apart a year later in 2011.

So, George, this brings us to their appearance on The People's Court. For people who don't know that show, how does it work?

Yeah, it's an iconic show. It's really famous for that intro with the drums and the bass line and that tagline.

What you are witnessing is real. The participants are not actors.

It was basically a reality court TV show, and people agreed to have their disputes heard by a judge. Dale wanted Michelle to pay him $5,000 over an engagement ring. Now, he said that she'd thrown it off a hotel balcony during an argument. Her story was a little bit different before the judge. She said that she threw the ring at him. She saw it land. She didn't go looking for it. But in the end, the TV judge ordered Michelle to pay $2,500 to Dale.

Yeah.

And whoever is to blame for that ring incident, what comes through as clear as water here is the tension in the relationship. I mean, there's a lot of rancor.

Right. And Michelle told that TV judge about the various arguments that she and her then-fiancé had that led them to break up.

He gets pretty malicious and vindictive, and he's a mean person.

Now, Dale on the show didn't specifically respond to the allegations, but he said he had his own allegations against her, saying that she had been unfaithful and her behavior was making the co-parenting of their twins particularly difficult.

The episode was pre-taped, meaning Michelle and Dale recorded it long before it actually aired on TV on November 17th, 2011. But it's certainly noteworthy that Michelle disappears on the same day the episode airs. What else do we know about Michelle's movements that day?

Right, Jose. And according to Orlando police, and we've seen the video, Michelle can be seen on security camera picking up food from a local drive-through about 12:30 that day. A few hours later, she went to see her mom and sister at their salon. Then sometime after about 3 PM, she drops off the 3-year-old twins she shared with Dale at his house. That's where the police timeline stops. Michelle's older son, who was 11 at the time, called Michelle's sister when she didn't come home before heading off to work. Then they called the police.

Here in Orlando, efforts to find Michelle now include search dogs, people on ATVs, even people on horses.

Michelle's family organized searches trying to find any trace of her, and hundreds of people showed up. Here's Michelle's mother, Yvonne Stewart, talking about that when she appeared on the Today Show. I have been climbing under trains. I have been going through ditches. and dumpsters, praying that she's not there. George, investigators want to talk to Dale right away. I mean, which you'd expect.

It's not surprising investigators want to take a closer look at him, given the contentious relationship that especially aired on TV, right? And what's more, it turns out that Dale himself had a checkered past. He had been dishonorably discharged from the Marines in 2003 after being convicted of drug possession and domestic violence. 10 days after Michelle disappeared, police came out and announced at a press conference that Dale was the prime suspect.

Yeah.

And so what was his response to being accused so openly and so quickly?

Yeah, from the get-go, Dale denied involvement in Michelle's disappearance. He got a lawyer who continues to represent him to this day. That lawyer said Dale had turned his life around and moved on from his earlier troubles. He said it would have also been physically impossible for Dale to commit the murder. According to the lawyer, Dale had taken the twins to his parents after Michelle dropped them off. So frankly, he wouldn't have had time to kill Michelle, get rid of that body, drive her car across town, and get back to his parents.

Let's remind everyone that years went by and Dale was never charged with anything. So what changed for them to finally arrest him last week?

Yeah, Jose, it was during a press conference last week that Orlando Police Chief Eric Smith offered a few reasons. He said that detectives had never stopped investigating.

Over the past year, we expanded our investigative team looking into this case and took a fresh, focused look look at all the evidence. We reexamined testimony and conflicting statements made by the suspect and used advanced and digital forensics to uncover and analyze additional evidence. George, what are these conflicting statements the chief was referring to?

Yeah, so as it turns out, according to the authorities, Dale had given multiple interviews to investigators over the years, and the chief said that investigators had asked Dale Smith Jr. the same questions, very specific questions, numerous times And they said that he gave different answers to those very same questions.

What do we know about the advanced digital forensics and additional evidence the chief spoke of?

Yeah, it's a great question. One of the detectives also spoke at the press conference and said that they had uncovered new digital evidence from electronic devices like phones and computers and also from vehicles.

Have Dale Smith Jr. or his attorney spoken out since his arrest?

Yes, he appeared in court last Thursday and pleaded not guilty to the second-degree murder charge. And I actually spoke with his attorney, Rajan Joshi, Joshi said that he and Smith were both surprised by the arrest, but he also told me that this was always something that was in the back of their minds that could happen. Joshi emphasized that Smith maintains his innocence and that in all these years, he's never run away from the area, tried to be a model citizen because frankly, he has nothing to hide, he said.

Have we heard from Michelle's family since this arrest was announced? I mean, obviously things are far from over here, but an arrest like this could maybe be the first step towards some kind of closure for them.

Yeah, Jose, the family has been absolutely distraught. It's been bittersweet for them. They've been waiting for answers. Michelle's mom spoke to our affiliate WESH after the arrest. Here's what she had to say.

It's like the happiest day because she deserves this. I would love for him to tell us where she is. George, it's just heartbreaking to hear a mother ask for where her daughter is.

Yeah, Jose, it's absolutely heartbreaking. And the family's still holding out for hope that they will be able to find Michelle Parker's remains. Now, the next thing on the case for Dale Smith Jr. specifically is something called an Arthur hearing. These are special hearings we have here in Florida in which defendants charged with a serious offense like murder, usually not eligible for bond, can ask for a judge to use their discretion to grant them bond anyway. Smith is going to be held until that hearing, which as of this conversation has yet to be scheduled.

George, thank you so much for bringing us this fascinating case.

Thanks for having me, Jose.

Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. We've got some news about O.J. Simpson. And the latest from the courtroom in the case of disgraced attorney and murder suspect Alex Murdaugh. Plus, scams targeting young people on the hunt for jobs. We'll tell you how to stay safe. Welcome back, everyone. Joining me for this week's roundup is Dateline field producer Alex Loray. Alex, how are you?

Hey, Jose.

I'm doing well.

How are you? Great, thanks.

But for our first story, we're actually going back in time to one of the most infamous true crime cases in America, the 1994 murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. It's been 30 years since Nicole's ex-husband, NFL player and movie star O.J. Simpson, stood trial for the murders, only to be acquitted. O.J. died in 2024. Alex, just when you think there couldn't be any more twists in this case, last week, questions about a possible accomplice? What do you know?

That's right, Jose. So, last week, The New York Times reported it had gotten its hands on newly unsealed court documents related to the case. The documents contained details about a man who claimed back in 1995 to have critical information about the murders.

So who was he?

His name was Joey Ippolito. He was a mobster and convicted drug trafficker who became an informant for prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. According to one of the court documents, he told them he was privy to many facts relevant to the case, including Simpson's disposal of the murder weapon.

That's always been the biggest question, in many ways, hanging over the case. What happened to the murder weapon? So, Nicole and Ron were viciously stabbed to death, but the knife has never been found. Alex, how did Ippolito even know O.J. Simpson?

So, according to the court documents, Ippolito was a close friend of Simpson's confidant, Al Cowlings, who was also an NFL player.

So, Ippolito, though, was never called to testify during the 1995 O.J. trial. And he died in 2006. But his possible connection to the case doesn't end there.

Right. So, The New York Times says that they recently spoke with Joey Ippolito's brother, Sam, and he said his brother didn't just have knowledge of what happened, he was at the crime scene and helped Simpson clean up. But then The New York Times reports that Sam later recanted his statements after the newspaper refused to pay him for his story. NBC News reached out to Sammy Ippolito earlier this week, and he said in a text message, quote, There was no way he was involved, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Well, that's kind of a huge, huge 180 there. What do the original investigators and prosecutors make of this?

Prosecutor Marcia Clark told the New York Times that she had no knowledge of Joey Ippolito, and the fact she didn't know about him means he had no credible or relevant evidence to provide. Tom Lang, who was the lead detective in the Simpson case, told the Times that he never believed Simpson had an accomplice, even though Ippolito's name came up during the investigation.

Alex, the LAPD The police says the double murder case remains active and open. We will keep an eye out for any developments. Next up, we're heading to South Carolina, where convicted killer Alex Murdaugh is preparing to stand trial again for the 2021 killings of his wife Maggie and their son Paul. Earlier this year, his convictions were overturned by the South Carolina Supreme Court because of misconduct by a court clerk. Last week, Murdaugh and his defense team were back in court fighting over crucial evidence before the retrial. Alex, what are his attorneys asking for?

So, Jose, one of the biggest issues at this hearing was DNA evidence. During the initial investigation, police found unknown male DNA under Maggie's fingernails and on her cell phone. So in August, Murdaugh's attorneys asked to conduct their own testing on that DNA, and the judge agreed. The prosecution raised concerns that additional testing would use up all the DNA samples left So they wanted access to the testing results, even if the defense doesn't end up using it. At this latest hearing, the judge sided with the defense again and ruled that they could move forward with testing without automatically sharing the results.

And things, Alex, got particularly heated during the hearing when the defense raised questions about a 3D scan investigators made at the crime scene. What was that about?

So investigators used something called a FaroScan, which is a laser scanning technology that can create 3D representations of a crime scene. The defense asked for access to the original scan data so their expert could examine it and potentially create a new reconstruction. Defense attorney Dick Harpootlian said that he had requested the data from prosecution weeks ago but hadn't received it, also complaining that in the last trial, the prosecution had turned over a large amount of data just days before jury selection, which made it really challenging for the defense to process the data. This led to some pretty intense back and forth between the attorneys.

Yeah, let's listen to some of that. We asked for the Faro data 30 days ago. 30 days ago. And you're going to hear in a minute about the ballistics.

Same thing.

No response until you order them to respond. They don't even respond. He's in here just now saying what I keep calling a false discovery issue, which they do repeatedly, and saying they don't Judge Deborah McCaslin eventually stepped in, basically saying that she's heard enough. This has got to stop. I don't want this tit-for-tat back between y'all. Call the lawyers. You're professionals. Professionals. This is court. This isn't a soundbite.

Okay.

And this is a new judge since the first trial. Sounds like she was getting pretty frustrated.

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. At the end of the hearing, she had a pretty stern warning for the attorneys.

This case will be tried in a courtroom under the rules of evidence and the law, not in the press and not in the court of public opinion. I will not allow these proceedings to become a circus. So what's next for Murdaugh?

His next hearing is scheduled for November 13th, and his retrial is scheduled for April 5th of next year.

Dateline has been on this story since day one, and we will, of course, be in the courtroom for it all. And for our final story, we're heading to North Carolina for an update on the trial of Miguel Salguero-Olivares. A man accused of murdering 19-year-old UNC student Faith Hedgepeth in her Chapel Hill apartment 14 years ago. Miguel had no known connection to Faith, but prosecutors say DNA evidence tied him to the crime. He has pleaded not guilty. The prosecution rested their case on Monday, but not without some drama from one of the witnesses. Alex, tell us what happened.

So the prosecution called its final witness, Justin Heinrich, an agent with the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation. His testimony focused on that tape takeout bag found next to Faith's body. Remember, it had a note on it that said, I'm not stupid, bitch. Jealous. Agent Heinrich testified that investigators found a photo on Miguel's computer. It showed some foreign currency and a handwritten note in Spanish. Heinrich testified that the handwriting looked similar to the handwriting found at the crime scene.

But on Monday, Alex, Agent Heinrich returned to the stand, and he made a Big U-turn here.

That's right, Jose. So he said that over the weekend, he found out the picture wasn't actually Miguel's handwriting at all, but a widely circulated picture found on the internet. A meme, essentially.

Well, that's kind of huge. On Wednesday, the defense decided not to call any witnesses and rested their case. We will bring you the latest on the trial next week. Alex, it's always great chatting with you. It's a privilege to work by your side. Thank you for the updates.

Thank you, Jose.

The school year is in full swing. For some college students, that means it's time to start looking for a job to help pay the bills. As if balancing work and school weren't difficult enough, students across the country are now falling victim to a new type of scam. Now NBC 5 responds to a growing frontier of fraud. That's the online job hunt.

Thieves pretend to be recruiters, When in reality, they just want your private data.

For our final story this week, Andrea Canning spoke with NBC's Chief Consumer Investigative Correspondent, Vicky Nguyen, to learn more about what to watch out for. Take a listen.

Welcome back to the podcast, Vicky.

Hey, Andrea. Always great to be with you.

Yeah.

So, Vicky, you say students applying for jobs are sitting ducks for scams, and it feels like every school year, the Better Business Bureau is warning college students, and maybe even a little older, to be on their guard when they're looking for a job.

Absolutely, because you have this confluence, Andrea, of people who are young, may not be jaded to the world of scams in the same way that some of us are, and they are motivated. They want to land that first job, that paying internship. So it isn't just college kids. A LinkedIn report from 2026 estimated that 1/3 of Gen Z job seekers have actually fallen victim So how do these scams unfold? So students go where everyone goes to look for a job, right? An online job board. They can be on LinkedIn, Indeed, Monster. And according to the Better Business Bureau, scammers are also there ready to greet them with fake job postings. Sometimes they're even going into college Facebook groups and posting listings there. And here's one key red flag. Those job postings will often have a job description that is very vague. really high salaries and sometimes requirements that seem really easy to get in, like 6 months of experience or fresh college graduate, and suddenly you're making 6 figures.

Yeah, sometimes the adage, if it's too good to be true, might apply here, right?

Absolutely.

And these scammers, they're, they're trying to get money, personal information.

It's really a combination of both. You know that when you apply for a job, often you are being asked for your cell phone number, your email address, sometimes even your Social Security number. And so that's why it's really important to take a step back, look at the email where this job offer is coming from, make sure that it isn't all only being done over email, right?

Vicki, our Los Angeles affiliate KNBC had a story a few years ago about a student who spoke to people on an encrypted messaging app called Element, and things did not go well.

Yeah, this was crazy. A Cal State student named Alexandria Smith Applied for what she thought was a paid social media internship for something called Greylock Capital Management. That is a real legitimate financial investment firm. Someone posing as a recruiter reached out to her for an interview. She had a 45-minute text conversation with him. The so-called recruiter even asked her about her prior work experience and other interview questions, making it seem like it was real. But the key was this all happened over text.

And in this case, she was informed she got the job And that's when this suspicious activity started.

So what happened was the scammers sent her several checks for thousands of dollars each. They asked her to deposit the money into her bank account. Then they told her to use Zelle to transfer some of the money to pay for a laptop and other remote work items. What they're doing is preying on that little window of waiting for the check to clear so that their fake check bounces and your real money goes to them.

Thankfully, the bank stepped in in this case with Alexandria.

You know what, and I will give credit to the banks who have been doing more to train their tellers and their customer service agents to recognize signs of a scam and step in. So she says her bank told her 2 of the checks that she cashed had been fakes and that her bank account was showing a negative balance of nearly $4,000. The bank actually acknowledged that she was the victim of a scam, and she was able to get her money back. She's very, very lucky, but she had some real thoughts on the scammer's choice of victims.

It's deplorable, just going after the innocence or someone's naivete when they're trying to better themselves in life.

Vicki, are there any other signs that your dream internship or job offer might actually be a scam?

So just really be wary of random job offers, right? No one's just going to reach out to you and offer you a high-paying position out of the blue. Make sure these are jobs you have actually applied for. Also be aware of unprofessional emails that have typos and grammatical errors, right? Finally, if the company has little to no online presence, that's definitely an indicator it's likely a scam. If you have a gut feeling something odd is going on, verify, right? See if you can jump on a Zoom with the employer or the recruiter, you know, see if you can talk to them face to That's not always a guarantee, but it's a step in the right direction. And I really want to encourage people to not blame themselves, to not feel ashamed to share their story, to report these crimes, because they are sophisticated.

Where should you be looking for a job then if you want to make sure everything's on the up and up?

Andrea, it goes back to the old-fashioned IRL, in real life. Are you talking to people who are working at the companies where you want to work? Certainly, your university portal is a great place to browse through jobs that are listed there. Reach out to your university administrators and say, does this sound like a legitimate job? Did this job come from you? Is this real?

Amazing advice, Vicki. Thank you, as always, for coming on and sharing your knowledge with us.

You got it, Andrea.

That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Don't forget to check out Lester's podcast, Before and After, You can binge all the episodes right now, including his conversation with former Arizona Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, who was shot by a gunman at point-blank range in 2011. Are you still recovering?

Yeah.

What's that look like?

Um, a lot of homework. A lot of homework.

It sounds hard.

I'm tough.

To get ad-free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, Keith has a brand-new episode about a father caught in the crosshairs of one of America's most notorious killers. Now, for the first time, that father is speaking out, revealing new details about one of the biggest cases we've ever covered. When you wake up every morning and you know someone wants to kill you, it's a very different way that you live than most people. Watch Blindside, Friday at 9/8c on Dateline on NBC. And remember, you can watch Dateline en Español, hosted by me, every Saturday on Telemundo and streaming anytime on Peacock. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey, and Kiani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groff and Aria Young. Special thanks to Dateline field producer Alex Lorraine, Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kuriloff. Veronica Mazaika is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer, and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

Bye, everybody.

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