Transcript of Vance repeatedly refuses to say if he believes Trump lost 2020 election

Jd Vance in denial, again and again and again. In a stunning new interview with the New York Times, Lulu Garcia-Navarro, who is a frequent guest here on our program, and he will join me in a moment. Garcia-navarro pushes Vance five times, and five times, Vance refuses to say if he believes Trump lost the 2020 election. Just watch.

In the debate, you were asked to clarify if you believe Trump lost the 2020 election. Do you believe he lost the 2020 election?

I think that Donald Trump and I have both raised a number of issues with the 2020 election, but we're focused on the future. I think there's an obsession here with focusing on 2020. I'm much more worried about what happened after 2020, which is a wide open border, groceries that are unaffordable.

Senator, yes or no. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?

Let me ask you a question. Is it okay that big technology companies censored the Hunter Biden laptop story, which ended Did independent analysis have said cost Donald Trump millions of votes?

Senator Vance, I'm going to ask you again. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?

Did big technology companies censor a story that independent studies have suggested would have cost Trump millions I think that's the question.

Senator Vance, I'm going to ask you again, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?

I've answered your question with another question. You answer my question, and I'll answer yours.

I have asked this question repeatedly. It is something that is very important for the American people to know. There is no proof, legal or otherwise, that Donald Trump did not lose the 2020 election.

You're repeating a slogan rather than engaging with what I'm saying, which is that when our own technology firms engage in industrial scale censorship, by the way, backed up by the federal government in a way that independent studies suggest affect the votes, I'm worried about Americans who feel like there were problems in 2020.

Vice President Harris tonight seizing on this, insisting she surrender herself with yes men like Trump does.

The way that I like to lead, I bring folks in my office all the time, and they know I don't want any yes people.

The Harris campaign also tweeting out Vance's entire exchange with Garcia Navarro. We should point out, Vance wasn't always an enabler of Trump's lies. Rk file just this week, uncovering reportings of Vance from 2020, admitting people will accept Trump lost.

I think that when Biden is inaugurated, people will more or less accept it, and it'll be on to the next fight.

Well, Vance has obviously changed his tune now that he's Trump's running mate. Elaina Threen is out front now in Reno, Nevada, where Trump is holding a rally. And Elaina, you've been talking to your Trump sources, just getting off the phone with them tonight. What is the strategy behind what Vance is doing here with these interviews?

Well, Pamela, this has long been the strategy strategy for J. D. Vance, really for a number of weeks now. Donald Trump, remember, one of the reasons he selected J. D. Vance to be his vice presidential running mate was because he liked him in his interviews. He liked the way that he defended him on television. Really, I'm told that ever since that debate between Vance and Governor Tim Walls, Trump has wanted him out there in front of audiences that perhaps aren't typically political, aren't typically the ones that you expect Trump campaign members to be doing, including these mainstream outlets like the New York Times. That has been the strategy. He's also been told to be the attack dog, even though we know that Donald Trump does a fine job attacking his opponents themselves. They I really want Vance to be that person for the campaign. Now, as for this interview in particular, because it is interesting, I mean, this was an hour plus long interview with the New York Times. When I talk to Vance's senior advisors, they say, This is part of that strategy of getting in front of these audiences that we don't typically do.

Now, when it comes to some of this, and particularly that answer that Lulu was really pressing Vance on about the 2020 election, he knows that the most important person who is watching him is Donald Trump. He knows what Donald Trump is expecting him to say. So while he's not exactly playing to an audience of one, Donald Trump's opinion is the one that he is most concerned about. I think that's why you're hearing him continue to dodge on that answer of who won the 2020 election. Pamela?

Yeah, because he full well knows that if he says, Oh, yeah, Trump lost, he'll lose his job, probably, right? You can only imagine what Trump's reaction to that would be. Elaina Threen, thank you. And up front now, Max Rose, former Democratic congressman Lulu García-Navarro, who conducted that extensive interview with Vance for the New York Times, and Matt Mowers, a Republican strategist and former Trump administration official. Lulu, let's start with you. We've watched it tonight several times, you gave Vance five opportunities to say Trump lost the election. What was going through your mind as he pushed back the second time, the third time, and on and on?

I think one of the things that's really important to understand is this is one of the key questions of this election. We've seen in polls, we've seen over and over voters saying that democracy is also on the ballot. People are concerned about this issue. 2020 is on their minds, and Donald Trump has refused to acknowledge that he lost that election. J. D. Vance is a hair's breadth from becoming the vice president of this country. Pressing him on this issue is important because we know over and over again that it is a lie, the big lie, at the center of what Donald Trump requires people around him to say. And so by pressing him over and over again, really, there is just one question, and there are two answers. The question was the one that I said, and the answer is yes or no. And the fact that he couldn't give a yes or no, I think is extremely telling. And what I'm doing there is really trying to make sure that the voters understand the position that JD Vance holds, and by extension, the Trump campaign.

Right. And he said that you were using a slogan when you just presented him with these facts that, yes, indeed, Trump lost. Matt, to you, we should know you were hammered in your own Congressional primary in New Hampshire for acknowledging the truth that Joe Biden got more votes in 2020. How do you think Vance should have answered Lulu's question?

Well, I think he just hasn't gone. He doesn't have much of a choice, right? I mean, it's not uncommon, and it's well documented, obviously, what Donald Trump has said about the 2020 election. And candidly, I think it's pretty well baked into the cake of how the American people view him and whether they're going to choose him or vice President Harris. I think what JD Vance is doing essentially is what every running mate has always had to do. Yes, this is a different issue that's come up before. Yes, it's a different topic. We're not talking about adjusting your position on taxes or abortion or anything like that. But he is aligning himself with what Donald Trump has said, which is essentially his job as a running mate. I think that's essentially what he was doing. I will say, do give him a little bit of credit for at least engaging with the New York Times. Lulu sitting down with you for well over an hour. The paper obviously has already endorsed Kamala Harris for President. Might go the same way as President's-We had a long discussion about a lot of things.

We had a long discussion about a lot of things.

Who they endorse. Yeah, I was going to say, and there's a lot of different topics. I will give him some credit for going on the New York Times. It's no surprise, obviously, that you were going to ask that question. He did essentially what every running mate has to do, which is back up the position of the principal.

But you know what's so interesting? He didn't fully back it up because Trump says he didn't lose. Vance didn't exactly say that. He just wanted to dodge the question. He wanted to throw out stuff about the Hunter Biden's laptop. Exactly, and try to distract. He didn't say. He could have said, No, he didn't lose, which is Trump has been saying. He didn't say that, and I think that that's notable. What also struck me- Could I just say- Go ahead.

I just going to say real quick, I've actually seen some polling on this issue. I'm involved in a group called the Democracy Defense Project, which is trying to push back against some of the denialism around elections. One of the biggest concerns, actually the biggest concern when you ask voters about their concerns about whether a party can rig an election or not, they actually do talk about media censorship, believe it or not, across the country. I got to imagine what he is doing is trying to move to a safer ground, where it's upward of almost 90% of Americans who agree with him that media censorship is a big concern in this upcoming election.

All right. Thank you for sharing that point. Max, I want to bring you in on this and play more from Lulu's 75-minute interview with Vance. She asked Vance if he would have certified the 2020 election results. Here he is.

I've said that I would have voted against certification because of the concern that I just raised. I think that when you have technology companies- The answer is no. When you have technology companies censoring Americans at a mass scale in a way that, again, independent studies have suggested to affect the vote, I think that it's right to protest against that, to criticize that, and that's a totally reasonable thing.

A defendive, no. Your reaction?

Well, look, first of all, you can't really blame J. D. Vance when Mike Pence took the opposite position that he just laid out. Donald Trump, of course, tried to have him killed. So he understands here that he is certainly playing with fire. But what J. D. Vance is really doing here is showing why he was picked by Donald Trump, because he has this unique capability to just demonstrate 100% fealty to Donald Trump's positions no matter what they were. Remember back to the Republican primary, when it was asked if Mike Pence did the right thing, every single individual on that stage said that he had. No one, even in the Republican primary, when Primary, when they are just appealing to the extremist base of their own party, was willing to stand by where JD Vance is. It's understandable, I think it's despicable. But what doesn't really make sense to me, and I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on this, is when you're appealing to moderate voters in a general election, less than one month from the election, why are you standing by this position? There's not any independent voter who would agree with this.