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Georgia sure looks different today than it did the last time we were there. Back then, we had two Canada validates the old race, you might say, President Joe Biden against former President Donald Trump. Both known quantities, both with a ton of baggage. But since the shakeup on the Democratic side, Georgia's race has taken on a brand new shape. For the vice President Kamala Harris, her path to victory is clear, but it won't be easy. In a race this close, she has to do everything possible to turn out essentially the coalition that just barely tipped this newly purple state to Joe Biden back in 2020. That means first, firing up the Democratic base. Then it means wandering out to the suburbs and convincing the unconvinced, driving turnout as high as possible. Donald Trump, Georgia is more simple. He hopes Georgians look back at 2020 and say, Never mind, that was a mistake. We're going back to being a red state. For Harris, there's just no question that women of color are a giant piece of her Georgia math. But to assume their thinking and voting as a block, well, that would be a big mistake. I'm John King, and this is all over the map.
If you've been with us from the beginning, you'll remember Christine Wyn. She owns a Boba Tee shop in the Atlanta suburbs, a business she launched post-COVID after an exhausting few years working as a nurse. She's passionate about the business and equally passionate about the community that surrounds it. But when we talked to her last time, She was more than torn about the election. She actually didn't vote in 2020. Part of that was she was burnt out from COVID and working far from home around election time. But a big part of it also was she just felt zero connection to the candidates, Donald Trump and Joe Biden. She was determined when we first met to vote this time around, but she simply hated that it looked like then we were going to have a rematch. Her choices had not changed. Trump's rhetoric turns her off. Yes, she's more aligned with Biden policies on things like the climate, on reproductive rights, but she just felt no connection to him. She felt he was too old for the job. She was going to vote when we first met, but she was most unexcited about it. Now, though, things are very different.
It is good to see you again. A lot has changed since we were here last. A good amount. You were talking about how important it was for you to vote this time, but you weren't happy with your choices. No, not really. Where are you now?
It's honestly very refreshing to see a presidential candidate where if they're up there, I wouldn't be ashamed to say, Oh, they represent me and they represent my country and my community.
I assume you mean the vice president there. How does she represent you? What do you see in her? Will you say, That's me. That's a little bit of me.
Knowing the background that she came from, knowing the culture that she has to bring, as well as her values and beliefs, I'm proud to say that there is somebody who is able to voice the things that we, as a people, have been shouting for the past four years.
What are those things?
I feel like for me, small business is a big one because I am a small business owner. Access to health care as a woman, having a woman, presidential candidate, who can understand the struggles that we go through in that field, as well as our reproductive rights. Also, having somebody who actually cares about climate change is really refreshing, too. I wish that that was talked about a little bit more in the debate since it's something that the future generation cares so much about.
Help me with the conversation here. You mentioned this is a democratic area. Is there more energy, more excitement, more activism?
What are seeing now compared to when it was still Biden, especially after the Trump-Biden debate?
I feel like a lot of my AAPI community have come together to help increase awareness for voting, which is really refreshing, especially having a candidate like Kamala.
Obviously, the AAPI community, she has good relations there, obviously part of her lineage. But there's also a lot of entrepreneurs there, business people like yourself who are looking at what's the taxation environment going to be like? What's the regulation environment going to be like? Does that come up at all? I don't know if pushback is the right word, but any of your peers say, Oh, it's great. Her story is great. It's awesome. But Trump's better for business. Does that come up at all?
That comes up very often. Even in my family of entrepreneurs, it comes up every now and then that Trump just knows business better, that he's more savvy with the tax laws and are able to bring money back into the economy. But I think at the end of the day, it's what you value and what your beliefs are in terms of your ethics, in terms of human rights that matter the most.
One of the things we travel across the country, that a business like this would be impacted is, are people reluctant to spend? Is inflation causing them to cut back on doing something, make your coffee or your tea at home, as opposed to going out for a little bit of experience? Where are you in that? What are you seeing?
We're not seeing a huge impact to where it's causing a lot stress on our business. We're lucky there, but it definitely has hurt our business in the past couple of months, seeing the prices go up for our supplies and us not being able to adjust the prices accordingly. That's been a little rough.
Do you think that impacts the environment? That people are feeling stressed from inflation could impact her chances.
Yeah, I think that that could highly impact her chances because she has been part of the administration in the past four years and inflation has only gotten higher. But at the same time, I think that what we have as people to offer, we can push through this and we can make it so that we're supporting more local businesses as opposed to letting inflation get to us.
Given the 2020 experience, how are you feeling personally now that you're just weeks away? Are you going to wait till election day and vote? You're going to vote early? How are you going to do it?
I'll be voting early this year. I'm very excited to say that, and I'll be very excited to go to the polls.
You mentioned in your family of entrepreneurs, there's some debate, maybe disagreement. How do you handle that? Is it a pleasant debate? Does it get tense? Is it just like, let's air it out and have fun?
It used to be a little bit more intense, but we're just pretty accepting of each other.
We don't really… Even whenever somebody voices their thoughts, we're pretty understanding of each other. I think that's very interesting compared to other families, because I think a lot of other families let get between them, whereas our family, it's just talk for us thing, and we still love each other at the end of the day.
That's good. I see a little bit of Harris literature over there. Oh, yes. You made a decision to do that. Why?
Just to let people know that we deserve something better, that we deserve more than the two candidates that were there before who didn't understand us.
If someone to ask you why Harris, not Trump, your answer would be.
Because she resonates with my values and beliefs, because she's going to make changes that matter.
And what about him?
We're built on a nation of immigrants. My parents were immigrants. We have to remember that the president should be somebody who my niece and nephew look up to, who our kids looked up to. I don't think that choosing somebody who incriminates people like my parents would be good.
Let me end with this. Just based on your conversations with the neighborhood, I know this is a blue-leaning, Democratic-leaning area. This is a very competitive state. It was a huge shock when Biden won it in 2020. What's your sense of where are we as we go into the final weeks?
My fingers are crossed, and I will make sure to do my best to get my whole community to the polls with the resources that we have and make sure that we do our part and we go out to the polls, too. Great. Thank you. Thank you for coming by again.
Happy to be here.
When we come back, another Georgian who's determined to vote but is a lot less sure about how.
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair, done well. Kitchen sink install, done well. Deck upgrades, done well. Electrical upgrade, done well. Angie has been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high-quality certified pros at angie. Com.
Grief isn't talked about much, but that's what my podcast is all about.
I had the best possible version of a goodbye with my mother.
This is All There Is, Season 3, with my guest, actor Andrew Garfield. In 2019, Andrew's mom, Lynn Garfield, died after a struggle with pancreatic cancer.
Without the ending that I had, I'm not sure if I'd be able to eloquently talk about it, to be honest.
Listen to All There Is with Anderson Cooper, wherever you get your podcast.
One.
That was solid.
That was solid, Nikki. That was solid. I'll give you that one.
Shantay Willis lives on the edge of the Atlanta suburbs, a little town called Powder Springs.
And you just moved in?
Yes, August fifth. Would not recommend doing it in the heat. It just was not...
I used to work as a mover. Summer moves are a beast. They're a beast, yeah.
She's an entrepreneur and gig worker, lives with her husband and her son, who has physical and learning challenges.
I'd like to think I'm a well-rounded person. I volunteer in my community. I I think I'm, I like to say middle-of-the-road American.
Tell me a little bit about your politics. It doesn't have to be candidates right now, but just about what makes you tick, what issues matter most to you.
My politics, I think the first time I started paying attention to politics was when Dukakis was running. I think I was 12. Couldn't vote, but I was interested and wanted to do it. I think I've been a Democrat my entire adult life. This has actually been the first year where I was considering voting Republican. Why? I wasn't happy with the job that President Biden was doing.
Specific issues or his age or combination of things?
His age didn't matter so much until the first debate this year. It really didn't matter to me. Lots of people have it upstairs, as they say, way until they're over 100 for some people. It just depends on how you live. But things in particular, like gas prices and giving money to other places when people right here in America need that money, it's bothering me, and there's nothing I can do about it, but that's my president.
So now there's a switch, and it's Harris instead of Biden. Has that made a difference?
Oh, my God. Harris, just because she's the nominee, I can't. I'm not going to vote for her because she's a woman. I'm not going to vote for her because she's black. I don't know if I'm going to vote for her at all.
What's your biggest question?
Why does she want it? It's not a point of, does she deserve it? Do I want to make her make history? Like a lot of people say, is she the best person for her job? I'm not convinced yet.
You've had the convention. You had the one debate with Trump. When you look at him, are there plusses and minuses? How do you look at that?
Yes. Trump's done the job before. Some people think he did a good job. Some people think he did a bad job.
What do you think?
I think that people are handed what they're handed when they get it. The economy and all the things that we face, you get to get in, and either you can fix it or you can't. If If someone proposes a bill or legislature and they want something to go through that maybe majority of Americans want, but the other side doesn't allow it, is that person a failed president because they didn't get it through? Or the other powers that be didn't allow it? How do you make that say this is their legacy or what they actually accomplished? If they campaigned on it and they tried to get it through, but other people didn't let it, it's not their fault, and somehow it is.
When you look at Trump, specifically. Is there an issue or two where you say, I'm with him on that, or he sounds good on that? Maybe you're not convinced yet, but he sounds good on that.
Where he wants to drill for oil to make the prices go down. I don't have to have an electric car. Would I like my crypto portfolio to be better? Sure. Who was invested? He wouldn't want that. Trump seems to be more for business people. What if everybody doesn't have a business? What do you do then? Personally, as a woman, I don't like it for my doctor to be under threat, say I wanted an abortion. You don't have the potty parts to talk about what goes on down there. I can't. Him reversing role versus Wade just, what does that say, grind my gears? Oh, and his favorite color is black. Boy, please. No.
It sounds like you're having a hard time with these choices.
We don't have the choices, period. I don't think we have good choices, period. If they kill him tomorrow or they kill him when he gets in, I'm not saying that. I don't really want to put that out in the universe, but what are they going to do? We got Vance. Come on. That's not going to work. Why he chose him as his runmate? I don't know. Why Kamala chose Mr. Tim Walsh? I don't know that man. He could be at my local Sherwin-Williams or somewhere. I don't know if I just wish there were all the candidates to choose from. Forget it. Why does America not take the third party seriously? It's always a wasted vote.
Will you vote or are there circumstances where you might skip it?
No, I'm going to vote because that's my civic American duty. Too many people fought for me to vote, period. I'm going to vote because if I don't, and if I don't like the outcome, I don't have a right to say anything about what happens after. I'm going to vote because Does, what do they say, choose the lesser of two evils?
Who is that today? You have a few weeks, but if you had to make that choice today, do you have a lesser of two evils or are you not sure yet?
I hope I don't decide the day I choose to vote, whether it's early voting or the actual day. Today, it might be Trump. I don't have to like the man personally to stand behind some of his things, what he believes in. Trump has said he's not for Project 2025. However, Agenda 47, I've been reading it, some of those things actually do line up with Project 2025. I don't think that he should be higher than anybody else trying to go for the same job any other American would do. I think he's taking the business lines and blowing them a little bit too far.
The end of that was criticizing or raising questions about him, but the beginning was you might vote for him. Yeah. So you're wrestling.
It's Ms. Harris, Mr. Trump. He's done the job. Can he continue the job? He won't get to do it again, hopefully. If he gets in. So that I can almost be done with that. But I don't think Kamala needs to be in there at all. But they're not putting anybody else up for it.
Who would you trust more to handle the economy?
I don't know. I don't like Kamala's tax plan. How do you get me to give money on money I don't even have yet as far as investing, which we like to do. I'm not, I guess, big enough as a business owner to get the benefits that Trump is promising. It's so, Oh, pick this or that, pick this or that. What more can you get out of this? Or what more will this candidate give you.
Does living in a state that is so competitive... It was a stunner when Biden won here in 2020. And so the Democrats now think, If we can take Georgia away, it's pretty hard for Trump to get there, right? Does that matter to you at all, or is it just this, I have to make my vote based on my life and what I want.
There you go.
That's it.
Just because something has been done for the longest time doesn't make it tradition and routine. And I think a lot of people have to wake up and figure that out. Lots of people are coming here every year. People are coming in, so that's where they're losing.
Do you have in your head a process? You're frustrated. You don't like either choice, but you're going to vote. Do you have in your head a process of what you're going to do over the next few weeks, or is it just it's all going to come in, you're going to see it on TV, you're going to see this, and then you're just going to decide at some point?
Honestly, I've been just researching it. I've been looking into both candidates. Like I said, Trump, I'm almost comfortable with. If it was just him and Biden, I could tell you today, I was definitely going I'm going to vote for Trump. Go sign up proudly for my Republican ballot and let that be it. And be rested and call him in my decision doing that. But then when he dropped out, it was like, all bets are all. Now you're making me re examine What I'm going to do. And I'm probably going to do a pro and con list, like the simplest way, and say, Hey, this is okay. This is not okay. And whoever has the most of them, that's what I'm going to do.
You said this won't affect your vote, but do you friends or family members telling you, Are you nuts? A woman of color? This should be automatic? Yes. What do you say to them?
You don't want to really push, what they say, religion and politics and things You just don't talk about with people, right? Because if you want to keep them as family, friends, or whatever, you just put that in the closet somewhere. My mother, she's over 60, so she's different time beard. Never thought she'd see a black person, president in her life. She did. Now, Kamala Harris is a president. My mother says she don't care what she does. Let's just get her in there. And I simply don't feel the same. And we're back and forth about it. We keep it. Well, we're not fift of cuffs, but oh, my. And that's why people... It's called secret ballot for a reason. These people putting these signs in their yard. No, there's not a sign out in front of my house. I take that seriously, I don't want I want you to know because you might fire me, you might this or that to my son because I'm voting for this person or that person. It's not worth it to me.
Has it ever been this hard to make a decision?
No, no, no. Not at all. There was another time that I might have thought about voting Republican, but I have always voted Democrat, even for the smaller every two-year elections. I voted Democrat. I didn't like all the Democratic candidates, but I voted Democrat, and I felt proud of that. I did what I was supposed to do. Here, if you don't vote in so many elections, they take away your voting rights. You're not taking away my voting rights. Whether my candidate wins or loses. Clinton didn't win. I voted for her, but I voted. It's very important for me to vote.
Well, we're going to have to check back to see when you... To the very last second, if we have to, to see what you decide, or you let us know. Okay, I sure will. Anything else you want to add?
Take it seriously, people. Take it very seriously, because whatever we decide, deciding to vote is a decision, and deciding not to vote is a decision, but we'll be stuck with it. Things that they enact or sign into law affect the next coming generation. Got to take it seriously.
Want to bring into the conversation my sidekick on the road this past year plus, Ellie Malloy. How are you?
John, in the past year, we've been to Georgia four times. This was the first trip we've taken since Harris was at the top of the ticket. What's changed?
Everything has changed in the race in Georgia. After that debate, Joe Biden was going to lose Georgia. A lot of other places, but a stadium just flipped in 2020 was gone. If you talk to anybody there, hours after the debate, let alone days after the debate, they were like, the panic in the Democratic Party was off the charts. Then Harris comes in and what happens? Bam, like that. An energized Democratic base. Georgia more than any other state, maybe North Carolina compares. Look at the size of the African-American population, the foundational, loyal element of the Democratic base. Love Joe Biden. Saw that debate. It just reinforced their doubts and their worries about was he up to the job? Not that they don't love the man, but could they see him as president for four more years? Could they look in the mirror and vote for him, keep him as Commander-in-Chief? Now it's Harris. You hear the energy in the voices. When you ask them why, They say, Look at her.
She's vibrant.
She's vigorous. Then you also see it in these younger voters like Christine, who on the issues are aligned with the Democrats. Biden just took the air out of their balloon. They felt no personal connection because of the age difference. All of a sudden, you had a woman of color, the daughter of immigrants. What is Christine? A woman of color, a daughter of immigrants who can see their story in the vice president, who are with her on the issues but feel a connection. She has went from, I feel an obligation to vote. I didn't in 2020, and that bothers me. I have an obligation to vote. I'll vote, to, I want to vote. I'm excited to vote. I'm going to vote early. My ballot's getting in early. It's just night and day. You can be a voter or you can be a participant in the conversation. She's an active participant in the conversation now, and in a very close race, that can make a difference.
Do you think this race rests on enthusiasm?
Yes, it's the most tired cliché in politics, but elections are decided by turnout. People say these things and you think, wow, that guy's stupid. I thought, are you supposed to know what he's talking about? Elections are based on turnout. Duh, thanks, John King. We really needed you to say that. I had no idea that it depends on who shows up. But to me, it depends on turnout, not in a what's the number, who turns out, especially in a state like Georgia. Christine is part of another interesting conversation we haven't even mentioned. The Asian-American population in Georgia is multiplying and expanding really quickly. It's closing in on 5%. In a 50-50 state, a group that has 5%, you might think, Oh, they're only 5%. No, no, no, that's huge. The AAPI community, which she talks about passionately in Georgia, is a growing political force. You know when we drove from Atlanta out through the suburbs, you see different pockets of it. There's the Vietnamese community here. There's a Korean community here. There's the Indian community. It's a complicated, wonderful, diverse mix of people, but it is a growing political force in the state of Georgia and elsewhere.
It's not just the number, the raw number. It's who. For Harris, maybe you're going to lose some working class people who voted for Joe Biden because he was the scrappy kid from Scranton, and Trump's trying to convince them she's the radical liberal from San Francisco. If you're going to lose some places, you have to gain elsewhere. In a state decided by 11,579 votes, if you lose 10 here, you better pick those 10 up somewhere else because it's that close. That's the opportunity with Christine. She's not only getting off the sidelines, but she's going to help you with other people. Enthusiasm, in that sense, enthusiasm can get you more than that one person's vote. That can matter. In a close race, that can matter.
John, one of the many things you have taught me, which kills me to say, is the importance of certain demographics and what makes a state a battleground, what makes a state red, what makes a state blue. Something that's most interesting to me is education background. Talk a little bit about that and how that relates to Georgia.
It's one of the things that It changed most in the too many years I've been doing this. This is presidential election number 10, as I've said before. It used to be, it was, what's the percentage of the black people? What's the percentage of this? What's the percentage of that? You're always trying to find, what is my leading indicator, if you will, to help me? Now, The clearest dividing line in the United States of America is your education level. Why are Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina, Nevada? Why are they the battleground states? Well, if you look, go to census. Gov, be a data geek like me, and go through each of these states and look at what is the education level in these states, what percentage stopped at high school, what percentage got four years of college. That is the line. They hug the national average when it comes to the percentage of the population that have a high school degree or the percentage of the population that went to four year of college. They are right there. All the battleground states are just above or just at or just below. California is way above, it's a blue state.
North Dakota is a little below. It's a red state. It is the greatest, clearest dividing line in America We're in politics right now. If you're trying to figure out a place, that's where I start now, it's not where I started 25 years ago, is that where's the line on education here? Where does this state or where does this county? It can be changes within a state. That's why the Atlanta suburbs have changed so much. If you look at the population shifts in the Atlanta suburbs, that's what's happening. The population is becoming more diverse and more educated, which eight times out of 10, maybe nine times out of 10, makes it more democratic.
John, we've spoken to a lot of undecided voters all across the country. Some of them, you can tell, are just a little more undecided than others, whether it be because they are totally with one candidate on a policies, but not with them for whatever other reasons. Shantay, though, she might be the most undecided of all.
Voters often surprise you. I call them more unhappy voters than undecided voters because most people come to the table with political leanings. So they're unhappy more than they're undecided. Shantay is just fascinating in the sense that just listen to her. Sometimes you have to jump in with follow-up questions, drop an issue in, drop a moment in, drop a quote from a candidate in to get somebody to go through their back and forth. She does it all for you. She's saying really great things about Trump, and then all of a sudden, not much of a segue, no transition, just bam, I hate this. I don't like that. He talks down to me this way. I disagree with him on abortion rights. Harris, this is good. That's good. But don't expect me as a black woman to have to vote for her, and I don't like this. She sees things she likes in both of these candidates. She sees things that she profoundly dislikes in both of these candidates. She has deep distrust, as a lot of unhappy or undecided, pick your term, voters do about, does it matter? Is the system going to work anyway? Shantay is what some analysts would call a low information voter.
She's not watching the news all the time. She's not really going on the internet, at least not yet. I think that's an insulting term sometimes. It's not fair. People get information the way they get information. They still have one vote. Their vote still counts the same as everybody else. Everybody does this in their own way. But I just loved the spice, the energy that Shantay had debating herself, because I think her conflict over what to do is real. I think some of that is her present. I'm investing in crypto now. Donald Trump's a crypto guy. And her past, my mom told me stories about the civil rights movement and how important it was to vote. Number one, she will vote. That's important. That has cemented in her. But the loyalty the Democratic Party That her mom had and her grandmother would have had, is not the same. Every year you move away from Selma and the Civil Rights Movement and the Voting Rights Act, the younger you are, the less personal connection you have to those big things. And so the challenge for Democrats, if you want to keep that loyalty, is to give people a reason to stay loyal.
This podcast version of All Over the Map is a CNN audio production. Our show producers are Grace Walker, Jessie Remedios, and Ali Malloy. Our editor is Grayland Brochere, and our senior producers are Dan Blum and Haley Thomas. Dan Dizula is our technical director, and Steve Ligtai is executive producer of CNN Audio. Support from Nikki Robertson, Jacquelyn Kahlo, Alex Manasari, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Lanie Steinhart, Jamis Andrest, Nicole Pessereau, and Lisa Namarot. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage and Katie Hinman. I'm John King. Thanks for listening. Don't let CNN's John King have all the fun. Experience the CNN Magic Wall on your mobile device. Get live results, expert insights, and an immersive election experience. Find it at cnen. Com/magicwall or the CNN app today.
Vice President Kamala Harris' goal in Georgia is to turn out the coalition that barely tipped the newly purple state to Joe Biden in ...