Transcript of EP9 - Can You See Me Now

Today's episode mentions suicide. If you are having suicidal thoughts, please know you are not alone, and help is available. In the US, dial 988, where you'll have access to free one-on-one counselors who are there to provide compassionate support.

Welcome to Beths Dead. This is episode nine. I'm Monica Padman. I'm here with Elizabeth and Andy. We're all on our computers right now because we are about to call the professor. We're at the point where this whole season has led up to we're nervous, and you're here with us in real-time. So we're just going to jump right in.

There's no way the video is on. Let's go here.

Okay. Deep breath.

Hey, can you hear me?

We can hear you. We can see you.

Okay, hang on a second. Let me see if I can get... Can you see me now?

No, you just got to hit the video button next to the microphone button.

Okay, hang on a sec. This is not something I do a lot. There. You're in.

We can see you.

All right, cool.

Thanks for chatting with us.

Yeah, we really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Yeah, I'm sorry. It's under these circumstances. Normally, I'd be really happy to see both of you.

Can you confirm who you are?

What would you like me to say? Because I'm...

I guess we anticipated... Well, also... Okay, so just so you know, we're not recording any of this video, just so you know. None of that's recorded. We are wondering if there's any chance, if you're okay with it, if we do record audio, and if we use any, we would change your voice.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay. Okay, thank you. We appreciate that.

Yeah.

We won't use your name, FYI, but we would like to know.

Yeah, my name is Fian. Okay.

I guess we're going to be honest. We were expecting to see your dad.

Yeah.

Why was that?

Well, when this all happened, a detective became involved, and We were under the assumption that it was your father from the investigation that was done.

Oh, no. I wish someone had told me that at the time. My dad has no idea of any of this.

Wow.

Wow. Okay.

I just happened to be living in his basement at the time.

Are you still living there? Are you still living with him? No.

No, I'm not. I'm so sorry for him because he had nothing to do with this.

That's good for us to know.

So just to confirm, and we can get into some more detailed stuff, but just off the top, are we right in assuming that you were responsible for emails from a few different characters? Yeah. Mainly, there was Beth, Anders, and Natasha. Those are the first that pop into my mind.

Yeah. I'm going to be really upfront because this will be a big thing throughout. I don't remember a lot, and this will go to the underlying reasons for a lot of this. I had a really severe substance abuse problem at the time. If there are others, there could be. But yeah, those were all me. If you linked them to me, they're me.

Can you speak to what type of substance abuse was going on at that time?

Yeah. I mean, I'd been high functioning alcohol for Basically, since I was 17. And by the time I intersected with you, or my paths crossed, I had been doing opioids every day for three years or so. Yeah, which eventually got me in trouble with the law, as you can imagine. So, yeah, there's just a lot that I don't remember and can't explain very well because of that.

How are you doing now? That be remorse if I didn't ask.

Yeah, it's been tough, but I'm about three years elderly, clean, and sober.

Congratulations.

Thanks.

We obviously have questions. Andy and Elizabeth have been sitting with some questions for quite a while.

Well, sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt. Because I was contacted by, I believe, a police detective around the time this happened. If it hadn't been for him saying that you guys would prefer no more contact, which totally makes sense to me, I would have at least apologized if not tried to explain myself. I couldn't have tried to. I couldn't have explained myself because I was high out of my mind and stuff. It doesn't really make sense, but I at least would have tried to say how sorry I was. So, yeah, I'm sure you do have questions.

I guess I have a question, which is, well, first of all, Were you doing this to other people as well, other podcasts, or was it solely them? And what was it about them?

It's going to be shitty to hear this. But as you get deeper into addiction, you start pushing people away. And it's not just that your podcast reminded me, generally, of the banter I used to have with friends. You reminded me of actual friends I had. So you seemed like cool, smart people. And the shitty part is that I know I ended up causing you guys some pain or distress or whatever. Sorry, I shouldn't say whatever. I'm not trying to minimize it. But I wouldn't have done that if you didn't seem like really likable, level-headed people. So it was just you guys. And I feel really shitty about that.

I know what you mean, and I can relate because I was a huge fan of their shows as well. And I get what you mean. But I guess when you started as Beth, did it get away from you? Did you know that you were going to... This is how she was going to end? How did this happen?

No, I definitely didn't. The how it ended part is one of the things that I wish I could explain, but it doesn't make any sense to me. How it started was just I think I wanted more engagement. And The story I gave was true of someone I went to high school with that she had done modeling and since regret it and stuff. So I don't know. It's like asking someone why they did something while they were drunk. You just go, well, if you don't understand what being drunk is like, it's really hard to explain. So I can't really explain how the ending part of it happened or whatever. But if I'm guessing, it's that, especially at that time, I had a lot of self-loathing and probably verging on suicidal ideation. And so I don't know. If I were guessing, trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense, I'd say maybe like... Because if I ever had taken my life, I know how people felt about it. I know that's such a fucked up thing to say that I wanted to see somebody's response to that end or something like that. But That's the most sense I can make out of it.

Before the Beth character, you had reached out in a few different ways. I think even before Beth, there was a character named Natasha. We were just curious this, was your initial intention more to work more with that character in the beginning, if you recall? Does that make any sense, that question?

Oh, for sure. I don't think I thought through an end game with any of this. I don't think I had a plan. I don't know what I was thinking with that. I never wrote in with a question as Natasha, did I? For the podcast?

You e-mail this, Natasha, for sure. Oh, yeah. And much earlier than Beth's existence, you emailed as Natasha.

Yeah. I don't think I had a plan for that. This is where my memory gets really fuzzy. Yeah. Yeah, I can't say what that was about, really, with any certainty. I don't have access to those emails anymore, as far as I know, those accounts don't exist.

There's one more major reason we thought it was your dad who is notable in a community. There was an email. It was from Anders and Natasha. I don't know if you're I remember this. Anders was writing it on behalf of Natasha, but it was very, I would say, manifesto-adjacent. Oh, really? Yeah. So there was a To us, that was a big indicator once we knew about your family.

Yeah. No, it definitely was me. It just would have been me working through some stuff just based on the stuff I grew up hearing about, but definitely wasn't my dad in any way.

Again, I don't know if you remember this, but were you... Because I know the main question when anyone hears a story where it's like, What was this person getting out of it? And I know you said there was a connection piece, and I do really understand that. But was there, ironically, a high from getting the emails back? Yeah, probably.

I would say so. I think I said this in my email to Andy, that that was definitely the darkest period of my life because I was working a job where I worked with other people, but it was basically just me with a pair of headphones Then I went home and got drunk or high or whatever. As I got worse with the drugs and whatnot, you push people away quite a bit. I'm sure there was a high of getting people that you feel like you know, even like you don't. And treating you like your friends. I realized we're not. I know that's what a parasocial relationship is. But yeah, I guess there was a high Yeah.

Do you think about this a lot?

Yeah. It's one of the things I regret most. I'm not even kidding. There are a couple of things I regret most in my entire life when this is up there. It's weird. It doesn't make sense to me. It's like, you're shitty to the people around you when you're an addict, but you don't think you're going to hurt people you don't even know. And you think highly of it because I do think highly of, Andy and Elizabeth. And this bothers me enough that I've never been able to listen to their podcasts anymore. I just feel so weird about this. And Yeah. So I've thought about this for years. Yeah, it's really, really bothering me.

You can imagine.

There was an aspect of when things were unraveling, if you will, and we had stopped contact with you.

Yeah.

There seemed to be some distress coming from your end, let's call it your end, obviously, about, obviously, the lack of contact, that you're not getting responses, but also that we had started removing some of the comments that were coming from you on the website and whatnot. Can you speak to that at all? Do you remember that and the frustration maybe you were having with that aspect of everything?

I do remember freaking out because it felt like they know what's going on or they have some inkling what's going on. And it felt like real friends were telling you to fuck off, we hate you. Which is understandable, but that's how it felt, as wrong as that, as inaccurate as that is. And so, yeah, I'm sure I was freaking out and said some weird stuff. Weirder than the other stuff, weirder than the What's it?

Right.

Got you. Well, Andy and Elizabeth continue on that podcast. I have many podcasts as well. And it is an interesting thing to balance relationships with the audience. It does things like this, obviously, instill a lot of fear for who's getting taken advantage of and what people think they're owed.

Yeah. I never thought I could do this to somebody. And it didn't cross my mind how much you might have freaked people, you, Andy, and Elizabeth, out until after the dust had settled to been. And I thought, wow, that could really alarm somebody, maybe even frighten them. And it genuinely never crossed my mind that that could be true while I was doing it. And as you might expect someone with severe addiction issues. I had some undiagnosed underlying mental health problems. I don't know, this is such an obvious thing to say, but that doesn't go well with the Internet. It's Nothing I have is really uncommon. I don't suffer from psychosis or anything, but you just don't think how much that will potentially affect how you interact with people online.

It's weird because in some ways, they're so real to you. They're your friends, but in another way, they're not real at all. There's no repercussions.

Yeah, exactly. I feel weird even saying this out loud. I know there was an email where I said in somebody that I thought Elizabeth was attractive, right? I would never do that to a guy's wife in person. I would never feel okay about that. But it's weird that you feel okay doing that behind a keyboard or whatever.

Sure.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm just Really, really sorry about all this.

So we wanted to hop on here, obviously, and talk. Would you be comfortable with Elizabeth talking to you at all?

Yeah. If she's comfortable. Yeah. Because I feel like an apology, if nothing else.

Okay, give me one second. I'm going to text a link to this. Hello.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Yeah. Okay.

Hello.

Hi. I just want to start by saying I'm really, really sorry. I've tried my best to explain to Andy and Monica as well as I could whatever was going through my head all those years ago. But if there's anything you want to ask me or get off your chest, feel free.

Yeah. Andy told me that that you were struggling with addiction, and I'm glad that you seem better. So I do appreciate that. It was a scary, weird experience, and I think it opened my eyes to what can happen in the Internet.

Yeah.

And I do have questions. I totally thought that you were someone else. And then I knew the person and got to know their online persona, so I'm shocked. And I have a few questions. Well, one is Did you travel with your dad a lot?

No, not a lot, but I did travel. I traveled independently with my dad.

Okay. And also, you made donation as Beth, a pretty big donation of $1,000. Do you remember that?

I actually didn't, but I assume I did.

Okay. Because it seems... I mean, I guess you don't remember a lot. I totally understand. Probably you...

It's a blur.

It was a long time ago. But a lot of what was played out referenced this $1,000 donation as though it It seems like maybe you donating that made it seem like I was indebted to you as Beth or as... I don't know. You don't remember any of that?

That makes sense. I don't remember that. That's a shitty thing for me to have done. I'm really, really sorry.

Thank you.

Yeah, I assume that would have been... When you say that I made it seem like you were indebted, I assume And that would have been stuff that happened once you guys started taking down my posts and stuff?

I think it was a lot of it. I mean, it was like as the brother, you were saying things That referenced that $1,000 as if I then owe just the brother an explanation. And here's my main question for you that I've wondered for so long is, what was your plan going to be if I had called the number that you kept telling me to call?

Did I give you a phone number?

Yeah. Well, it's the number that the detective ended up calling.

So it was your phone number? Yeah.

It was my phone number. I didn't have a plan. I was a fucking idiot. Got it. I was long and short of it. Because I don't remember doing that. I obviously shouldn't. Even if I'd been trying to con you or something, I shouldn't have done that. So I didn't have a plan. I don't know.

I see.

Yeah. I'm guessing at what you were talking about earlier with the $1,000. I said this to Andy and Monica that I probably said some especially shitty stuff when you guys started deleting my posts because it felt like I was losing real friends, as dumb as that sounds, once you guys were catching on. And so I'm guessing I referenced $1,000 once that started happening, but I genuinely don't remember.

Got it.

Yeah.

Shit.

Well, I really appreciate. I I'm really genuine. I mean, I sat this out because I was so sufficiently creeped out by everything. But I really appreciate you talking to us and that you didn't have to do that. So thank you very much. And I'm also glad to hear that you're sober.

Yeah. Thank you.

Okay. I'm going to get off and then let Andy and Monica, if you guys have more questions or whatever. But I just wanted to hop on.

All right. Thank you, and I'm sorry again. Thank you. All right.

Are you still living with any family anymore?

Are you on your own? I'm on my own right now.

Got you.

Do you have a family of your own?

No, I don't. I doubt I'm going to with them. I may be sober for as long as that happened, but stuff like this, honestly, this and a couple other things make me think I might not be good for a family if I have a relapsed or something like that. So I'm a little scared.

Well, I know a lot a lot of people who are in recovery and have families. And so are you working a program?

Yeah, I'm in Narcotics Anonymous.

Okay, great. Well, Andy, do you have anything else?

We may have already spoken to this, though, but had you formed any of these types of relationships with any other people or anything online?

I've never done it before since. I think, honestly, the format of your show prompted it because I'm trying to think how to explain this where it doesn't sound like a... Well, I had questions that I thought were interesting, like the high school friend that was at Beth who did the modeling. I thought that was an interesting question, but I'm not her. So I don't know why I couldn't have asked it as myself. I don't want to say your show prompted me to do this multiple identities thing, but I mean, that was part of it, I guess, was writing it as different person made the question more... I don't know. I'm trying to think what I was thinking. I don't really know.

And again, you've already spoken to the fogginess of this around the time where it escalated, if you will. Do you recall at all why you chose the suicide story?

No. Something must have been going on in my my own life to make me want to game that out. That's such a sick term. I'm sorry. Because I've lost people to suicide and stuff. It's not something I take lightly or If I'm so clean and sober, it's not something I've used to manipulate people with. I'm not sure what prompted that. I'm really not. Because obviously, if I'm going for engagement from you guys, that doesn't make sense either. To remove a character, so to speak, doesn't make sense if I'm trying to have as much engagement as possible. I really don't know what I was doing. I'm sorry. I wish I could make sense of that. But the best I can come up with is what I said earlier, because I struggled with thoughts of suicide so much myself.

Yeah.

Maybe I was just looking for a response I could perceive to Especially because I'm sure at the time, I thought no one would care if I killed myself. But maybe this nice internet lady would care about this woman that she'd have a friendly correspondence with.

Because I had a pretty low opinion of myself at the time.

Do you remember when the detective reached out, what we had heard back was almost as if they had referred to whoever they called, assumed it was your father. Do you remember if you would acknowledge like, yes, I am, but then do you remember that being you? Because there isn't a world just so you know, the detective wasn't calling multiple people or anything like that. It would have been the number that you gave us. I'm assuming if you remember a call with the detective, that was you on the phone.

It definitely was. I don't remember the language he used. I don't remember how I identified myself.

Could you have given your dad's number? Is that...

Do you think that- No, it was my number. Yeah. Got it. He had no idea this was happening. I never talked with him about any of it. At the time, he didn't even know I was using drugs. I've got my disagreements with my dad. You guys, I'm sure, would have plenty of disagreements with him, but he's deep down a good person. He He would be horrified by this. That's one of the reasons I'm so paranoid about.

Understandably, yeah. Yeah, we understand.

We totally understand.

And it was me that talked with him. I do remember that because it came actually a I know it won't seem like a long time to you guys, but it came when I was coming to my senses already. Like, what am I doing? I've got to leave these people alone. And then, so it seemed like a long time to me. And then that call came. If I wasn't going to leave you alone before, I was after that.

Right, right. So, yeah. And did you ever reach out after that? Because if I'm going to be completely honest, our radar went up after this whole incident We were fielding tons of questions from different people. Occasionally, there were some times where we would get a question where we truly felt like it was you.

No. Honest to God, I've never contacted you or donated or anything like that ever again. Like I said, the only reason I would have done that would be to apologize. But I figured, and I think the detective told me, you guys would just as soon be left alone. So no, I've never contacted you guys in any way.

Were the names connected to anyone? I know you said that Beth was based on someone you knew, but we did piece together some funny in quotes, coincidence that Elizabeth's name could be short of the cup. And also, Anders, in some way is connected to the M&B.

I hadn't even thought of that. I'm not even kidding.

It took us a minute, too, but we thought- Even for Beth or no?

No, the Beth thing I knew, but that's just because I had dated a girl like Beth. That's it. The honest thing genuinely never crossed my mind. It sounds like Andy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And were there more people? We know there was Beth, Natasha. There was a Frank character.

Yeah. This should maybe tell you how fucked up I was, if you'll indulge me for a second. For the life of me, I can't tell you why I did this. In your comment section, Frank would get on and spout Trumpish shit.

Yeah.

I've hated Donald Trump since he came on the political scene. But I know as Frank, he was spouting this pro-Trumpish shit, and I don't know why I did that. It was just stuff that I heard in my life, I feel like. That doesn't make sense, obviously. But I guess if you're high and isolated and wanting to bounce ideas off people. It sounds like I was going in your comment section to troll or something, which I guess in some sense I was, but not in the... I don't know. I wasn't doing it to irritate people. I can't tell you why I was doing it. You know what I mean? For the life of me, that... Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me now. I get it if you didn't fully believe me on this. It was a real learning experience for me, too, because I did not start out trying to cause a lot of stress to people. Or even though... That's the funny thing. It was pretty deep into it before I even realized what I was doing was catfishing somebody. I knew the term, but it didn't even dawn on me. It's just like, what does it matter who I am?

And then you realize what you're doing is pretty fucked up.

Well, thank you for taking the time to do this and taking us through all of it. And I appreciate you being honest and frank about all with us.

Yeah. There's a part of me that wishes I could have done this years ago. I mean, I couldn't until I was sober. But I'm still just incredibly sorry about this. I think that's what I was saying earlier, that this was a real learning experience for me, but I didn't set out to do this. And by the end of it, it took a while to realize how much it must have upset you guys. I don't want to assume or presume the feelings you guys were having, but I know what it would have done to me, I think. I can't imagine, especially with kids and everything. I'm just so, so sorry about that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Well, we really appreciate you taking the time. And really, congratulations on three years. That's a lot. And hopefully, keep it up.

Yeah. Thank you.

All right. Bye.

All right. Bye.

Okay, so we just got off the call. Let's go ahead and stay on, and let's get first reactions. How are we feeling?

Wow, wow, wow, wow. Was not expecting that. Me neither. When we heard his initial voice, I thought, It's not him. Like, holy shit.

Yeah.

And then... I know. I mean, I could cry, you guys. I have so many feelings right now, and actually, I was crying at one point. I feel I was so prepared to call bullshit on everything, and I truly feel like he was so sincere.

Yeah.

And... Yeah. I don't know. I do feel like I have a huge sense of closure.

Oh, that makes me so happy.

I feel like a huge weight has lifted. We've been pretty scared throughout this whole thing that even putting this out there would poke the bear and some scary boogie man was going to come after us. And I feel like the weight of that completely lifted.

I was definitely experiencing that. I felt, I mean, I truly felt like some compassion for him. I felt like...

Oh, yeah. How could you not? I mean. Yeah. And also, we were so surprised that he was going to play ball and do this.

And I think-We thought we had to trick him into it.

And was prepared. I mean, it's almost like he's come of it what may. I hope he feels like he has closure, too. You know.

Me too. Me too.

It couldn't have gone better. I mean, it could not have gone better in my mind. Like, I could not in a million years, have expected that it would be him, that I would walk away from this feeling. Because before this, Monica, you were saying, Well, I can come in with some compassion because Andy and I are just like, Fuck this guy.

Understandably. Yes.

But I'm walking away with so much compassion, and Yeah. It feels very full circle to me.

There is something maybe poetic about all of this that what catfishing is, is of not seeing people as human. And in some ways we did that, right? Throughout this process. And that conversation was not just for him to see the humans on the other side. It was for us to see a human on the other side.

Well, what's interesting is if we had had that same conversation with who we thought it was, okay? But let's say they had the same demeanor, the same remorse. I don't think we'd be having the same conversation at all right now because we had all these-I wouldn't have bought it. We wouldn't have bought it. We would have felt manipulated because we had a bunch of data suggesting that's what would have happened. But this, and also, can I just say, when he popped on the screen, it also was like, for one, it's not who we think it is, but two, it's clearly the son of who we think it is because there was a resemblance, which was, I don't know, was it a little shocking to me, too.

I could tell you were shocked because you were like, silent for so long. I was like, oh, my God.

Yeah. It was... Well, also for the audience, at first, the camera was reversed, so it was not pointed at him. And then all of a sudden, we could see his face. And it was a surprise. And I hate, not to make this about the sim, but I cannot believe that this is a show, that armchair brought in under its wing, and it's an addiction story.

I know. It's what? Childs. And I thought of all the people to have here with us is one of the most knowledgeable and compassionate people around addiction.

I hope it really when he said the thing about a family that really broke my heart. And I really hope he, like, you know, knows that it doesn't have to be his destiny.

I thought that was nice what you said.

We all do fucked up things. Oh, boy, you guys.

I'm like, I have, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I feel very, um, relieved. Also, like you said, just the total cortisol jump, dump of leading up to it and the anxiety. And then I just couldn't have imagined that that's who would show up. And I couldn't have imagined also that I would Immediately, his face in the first two seconds, I thought, this is a sincere person and how willing he was, obviously, to participate.

As It's unreal.

To me, it also speaks to this place we're in, in the world, that sometimes you just got to talk to people. Like, not everyone who you think is the enemy is the enemy. I mean, when he was talking about his political stance, it was like, yeah, we could have had a fun conversation with him about that.

I'm still so shook. I mean, I have said to Andy probably six times in the last 48 hours, there is no world that it is not the person that we think it is. I keep, because I've been relistening to all of our audio and I keep getting validation, confirmation, validation. And it's not... I couldn't have been more wrong. I mean, yeah. Wow. How are you two feeling? I'm feeling just like, relief, compassion, but also I'm in awe of how this folded, and it does feel rather like higher power vibes. It does. And so I'm feeling very moved, but also just, I'm sure, emotionally, what's it called? Frayed?

I feel a lot of relief, and I would have never expected it to go this way. But truly happy this is how it ended because it's the best case version of what could have happened that we had no idea was even a version, honestly.

It's like a beautiful story now. Monica, how are you feeling?

I mean, I'm feeling second-hand relief. I'm happy that you guys feel a weight off, and I agree with you. I really, really hope he does, too. And it's heartbreaking. I mean, it's heartbreaking. Like, the addiction is so sad. And obviously, I've seen it in my life, and I know he's right. He doesn't know why. He doesn't know why when you're on these things and when that's the only thing driving you. I've seen it. There's no answer. It made me very pleased to hear that he's sober, and I really hope he can, you know, stick with it.

I feel that if he did remember, he would have told us, I feel like he wishes he remembered, so he could... I felt like he wanted us to also feel closure and, you know, like his sincere remorse. But as soon as it became clear, he really doesn't remember all of the little nitty-gritty questions I had about, When you sent the Natasha email and blah, blah, blah, it was a relief that we won't have those answers, and they don't really matter anymore.

That's the other It's the crazy thing about all this, that accountability in any relationship is like, what you do flippantly might have such a massive impact on the other person, and you don't even know. And it's important, I think, in general, to remember that, whether it's people in your life or strangers. Yeah.

I feel like that was a gift, and I think there's something beautiful about this to me.

Absolutely. I mean, I wanted to give the guy a hug during that, which I know. Could you fucking ever imagine having that feeling an hour ago or two hours ago?

I know. I feel like all of us were being measured. But my instinct also was to be like, I totally, fully. I just want good things for him. Do not even give it another thought. It's fine.

Don't even worry about it.

These things happen.

Wasn't a big deal. We obviously overreacted.

We overreacted by a 10 episode series that we're putting out.

Yeah. Well, I hope that this does have an impact just on the way people see each other and think about each other.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was a lot what we just experienced. And I think maybe we should just take a beat before we do the last episode so we can really process everything and come back with fresh eyes and ears on it.

Yeah, that sounds good.

All right, so we'll be back with the last episode of Beth's Dead soon.

Bethsted is presented by arm share experts, Monica Padman, and nobody's listening, right? It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lame, and Monica Padman. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis. Music and sound by Andy Rosen.