Transcript of EP4 - Were You Her Therapist

Today's episode mentions suicide. If you are having suicidal thoughts, please know you are not alone, and help is available. In the US, dial 988, where you'll have access to free one-on-one counselors who are there to provide compassionate support.

Welcome back to Beth's Dead. This is episode 4. I'm Monica Padman, and I'm here with Elizabeth Lame and Andy Rosen. Hello. Hello. Okay, so last week, we left off hearing the email you got from Anders and then also Beth's brother Jason, letting you know that Beth had passed away. Right. Okay, so that's really heavy.

I got that email, and I was I was devastated. I mean, obviously. Andy, you remember very clearly.

Yeah, I think I was taking a nap or something, and you came in, I mean, freaking out. I was like, What's going on? And you didn't show me the email.

Were you confused because you didn't really know?

It was confusing in two ways. One, I wasn't fully in the loop on everything happening. And two, if I'm honest, your reaction was really intense, which I didn't know how to interpret either. It was just quickly trying to figure out what was going on. The math didn't quite add up to me. It's obviously super upsetting to hear anybody try to commit suicide.

You didn't know the layers.

I did not know the layers at all. That's probably the first time you told me like, Oh, no, I've been talking to her, and I could tell that you felt this responsibility. I was getting clued in right then, and it was fast.

It also was the last few that I had heard from her seemed like she was doing well. And then I hadn't heard from her in a few days. And to get that, it just felt like a gut punch. Yeah. I responded to Anders.

You did. Oh, it's sad. You said, Anders, what? No, no, no, no, no. I'm beside myself. Is this true? I'm so horrified. Last message I exchanged with Beth was of hope. I don't believe this. Did the brother email you or called? Do you respond to an email to Beth's account? I don't know what to do. This can't be. Would you share with me what the brother's message said? I'm hysterical. I wish I had realized. But I want to go to when you got the email.

At the time I got the email, I had been working on a pilot with Tammy Sager, who is, I think, the world's greatest comedy writer.

But not your mentor.

My mentor. Don't get it twisted. Dear friend, and she and I had sold this pilot. Actually, it was called Totally Lame. It was based on Totally Married, our podcast. And we were taking a break, and I went and checked my emails and I saw that. And I freaked out. I went to talk to Andy, and I came back, and I think I sent that email to Anders. And then she got back on with me, and she also was a fan of the podcast and had listened from the very beginning and had heard all of these questions and answers over the last, you know, few months. And I told her what had happened, and her instinct was, This seems weird. And it was a paradigm shift for me. Like, Oh, wait, could this be weird? Tammy pointed out that it was a little bit odd for a brother's first instinct to be, I'm going to go get into my sister's email. The first thing I did after Tammy said, This is weird, is I looked up Beth's PayPal account address and saw that it didn't match what I thought it would be. So I Google Images, searched that, and it was this a family, two-story, modest house, but suburban.

And I found that odd because I thought she had lived in an apartment. I thought she had a roommate. I don't know. It just didn't match up. So that was the first thing. And then Andy and our web people were like, We're going to look up her IP address. We had every comment on our website came with an IP address, as they do. And you can look them up and they show where the thing pings from what tower. So you can place someone pretty close to- That's not exactly how it works.

Okay. Let's hear. Your IP address, every connection to the internet has its own IP address, so it's not pinging off towers or anything. It's like this building here, we're on an IP address, like every modem, I think. Oh, I see. Basically, it's like your stamp of where the communication came from who's using the internet where they are, if that makes sense.

Yes. I think it was your idea was to we should look up her IP address, are the IP address is on the back-end, and our web people were like, yes, if you log in this you can see everyone's IP address. And so Andy clicked on best IP address.

Yeah, they were hyperlinks next to the comment. So it was really easy. You click on the IP address next to the person's name, and then it brought up all the comments that that person had made from that IP address.

And to our total fucking horror and disbelief, that same IP address also brought up comments from Natasha, from Anders, from Frank, and from a few other characters. I mean, it was a true horror film moment. I think especially for me, who had formed such deep relationships, that these were all one person.

At this moment in time, when we're doing this, we're quickly like, What the fuck? Beth has another IP address. We're clicking that one, too, and it's revealing other people. So we whittle it down to three IP dresses. And so we're scrambling to figure this out. And while we're doing that, Elizabeth, I mean, is white. And the thing that stands out to me is you saying to me, You have no idea how much time I've put into these people. That was the first time she ever revealed to me. That was the first moment I knew how big of a deal this was to her. Moving forward from there is when I started learning about the behind-the-scenes interactions.

Everything you've just learned. Yeah.

Not only this is so creepy that it's multiple people, but it's these people.

These people you've been talking to for a year.

More than a year.

Years.

This person that we don't know really covered their bases.

And in a way, too, that I think we couldn't even process, you more so than me. I'm sure we're more in shock, but also us just being like, how many people actually is it? We, in this moment, are figuring out, okay, what? We have seven, eight, nine people, but we're like, does anyone listen to our podcast?

Truly, our stats way off in this one person. My first thought was, is this Natasha?

Why was she top of mind?

Because, as I said earlier, she did stand out to me as a super fan who I knew knew to keep at arm's length because she was such a huge fan and seemed so involved. I felt with her, I didn't feel this with Beth, I felt with Natasha that if I had given her too much, she would just take and take and take. You know what I mean? It would have become a nonstop correspondence. My first thought was, Oh, my God, is Natasha? Also, is Beth okay? I still hadn't even stepped out of the web.

Right. They're all still real to you.

Yes.

I quickly jump to bullshit. I'm on team. This is fucked up, and there's no one that tried to commit a suicide. I'm that voice in the conversation, and I think Tammy is that voice, too.

Then it was like, who is this person? And that was its own journey to figuring who the person was.

At what point were you convinced that Beth didn't try to commit suicide?

I think pretty quickly because I think we got this email August sixth, and then we have evidence that you and I, Andy, had forwarded stuff to our web designer, Andrea at Duck Brigade. I think once we started that, you and I both knew. What we knew was one person was playing the role of all these other listeners. We realized that one PayPal address, we had gotten donations from the same address, different PayPal accounts before.

Same physical address? Yes.

What scared me the most in that moment was just the sheer volume and time and emotional energy I had spent on that and that someone would put me in this position of feeling partially responsible for the loss of a human life. And my gut instinct was, Oh, my God, I have talked about my kids on the podcast in a way that now feels reckless. I used to post my kids on Instagram. I wiped them from Instagram. I had Andy get a locksmith to change her locks, which does not make sense, but I was so... Scambling. I didn't know who this person was. I was like, has this person shown up as a plumber to her home before? I was going into really crazy places. My My first instinct was just fear because this person seemed very obsessed with us and me. The only person that I had interacted with who I thought could be that obsessed with us was Natasha.

That makes sense.

But I went radio silent on website and email. And at that point in time, Beth's brother started emailing very aggressively.

Okay. Monday, August eighth. Elizabeth Lane. This is Beth's brother again. I'm going through her email trying to take care of the things I can for her, but I'm trying to respect her privacy as much as possible. I couldn't help but notice, though, some of the things you had corresponded about. Are you Beth's counselor or therapist? I'm desperate to figure out what's happened here. It just doesn't make any sense to me or anyone else that I've talked to so far. If she is your patient or if you have any insight, please email me here or call me at. You can call 24/7. I am just desperate to know what has happened to my sister.

So now that the cat's out of the bag and we can be a little bit more upfront about this, hearing this, I'm like, How could you not piece together that it was a podcast that she listened to? Going through all the emails that we just went through. A quick Google search of me would have given him the information. Now I'm starting to see that whoever this is is starting to panic a little bit, and it's getting a little sloppy.

Sure.

We're also applying all of our attention to this. This takes over our lives.

You feel totally unsafe.

It's all we're thinking about, and it's all we're thinking about in a very busy time for both of us. We have these two little kids, but we're stressed out, freaked out, and we're watching this like a Hawk.

And did you guys continue to podcast during this time?

We did because this is one thing I will say, as you know. I mean, consistency in podcasting is so important. It is. Actually, I feel like the first time we had coffee. Yeah. I brought this up to you. I think that just being consistent puts you ahead of the curve in such a big way because people just... Well, now things are different But back then, they were like- No, I think that is still a huge part of it. Yeah. Having started in 2010, and I mean, at this point in time, we had three, four podcasts going, plus our jobs, plus two little kids. I actually think I only took one week off after having my kids. I mean, and I really prided myself in that. We did not step away. And so we kept podcasting. But, golly, It was hard, and we felt so exposed and vulnerable. I'm sure if you go back and listen to those episodes- That's what I'm curious about. Yeah, I bet there's a big difference.

Yeah. And also you're still taking listener questions, yet you don't know if any of them are real.

Here's what I will say about this person is they did a really good job of crafting these characters. I know. And also the questions, as you heard me going, This is a good one. It's a thinker. Their questions were exciting. Anytime we got a question that seemed remotely interesting, we were worried it was this person.

Okay. So you've been answering random same person questions, who knows how many.

Yeah. And those are just the ones that left comments. I mean, there may have been many more before. I don't know. So it made best pretty paranoid to keep podcasting. It made us not trust the questions. Monica, you even know because you're on our Patreon. Yes. We sometimes do these live streams and we'll go back in time and read questions and re give our advice on them. Yes. And recently, I was like, We can't even keep doing this now because every question we look at back in time, Andy's like, It's bullshit.

I'm so paranoid. I think, yeah, my alarm goes off way too easily. It's not calibrated right because of this. But to answer your question, we did eventually have to stop.

Yeah, because it was just feeling way too weird.

So like a year later, I think? Yeah.

Yeah. And then you guys were gone for a really long time. Then the Lord answered my prayers, You came back. You came back for me with, Nobody's listening right.

Yeah, we really missed podcasting, and so we did come back.

Yeah, like moth to a flame.

But a new format for the show.

Yes. It feels a lot safer because it's just me and Andy talking like no one's listening. Yeah. Having duped us in that way was tough.

Yeah.

Feeling really frightened because of someone spent so much time and energy to do this to us. Yes. But then the emails from Jason and then Natasha and Anders started to become a little bit unhinged.

On Tuesday, this is all escalating so fast. I mean, it's all within a week. Beth emails, This is Jason again. Just after 4: 00 AM, my amazing sister, Beth, passed away. We are all completely devastated. My only hope is that she reunited with our mother. Thank you all for the love and kindness you gave to my sister. And that was to you and Anders, because Anders then responds to the group and says, I'm so sorry, you guys. So at this point, you know that this is all the same person. So they're basically ceasing themselves.

Exactly. That's wild.

When they pulled that move, we were like, Pathetic. What a piece of shit. We were, at that point, we were really angry in that email, especially, right?

Yes. Responding to themselves.

We were really upset.

What is hard to remember is podcasting was not what it is today. Yes. At that time. Because you're worried that people are thinking, How could she not know this? This is so obvious. This is crazy. But no one was thinking like that at the time.

Yeah. Catfish I think that documentary had come out within a year or two before this. Don't quote me on that. But it was a relatively new thing, and it was always one person. It was usually a romantic relationship I'd never heard of it being multiple people. And I just lived in a naive podcast bubble. Our fans were so amazing.

We're a fan. We are one fan.

We You, too.

You were also. Exactly. What if you found out it was me? Oh, my God. What if that was the end of this? Oh, my God.

Do you want to know something crazy? So in preparation for this podcast, When I was making these binders, I was searching the IP addresses in the comments to pull out all of this person's comments to put in a separate document. And one of the IP addresses matched one of Andy's very best friends. What? And for just a moment, I emailed Andy, or I texted him. We don't email. We're married. I was like, I'm freaking out. And it got in my head into a way. Now, by this point in time, obviously, we know exactly who this person is, and we'll get into all of that. But I was like, Is this Josh? And I was so confused. Oh, my. And luckily, our web people set us straight and were like, No, that person just was in LA at that time.

That particular IP address was used from a cell phone. It was like, Oh, this IP address was just the AT&T IP address on this particular day. Our web people could really confirm that the person we end up finding it is was in LA that day, too. So it was like, Thank God it wasn't my buddy, Josh.

But it really threw us for a loop for a second.

Now, okay, this is the type of thing that on serial when it was like the cell phone pings. It's stuff no one understands. I don't understand it. I don't know how well you guys understand.

I obviously don't know.

So even when you say that, that makes me question, well, what if it's all these people and they had this situation?

Because the more telling thing is, typically the IP addresses aren't the cell phone out tower ones. It is like the modums that are in people's houses. And this all led to a person in a few very specific places.

Okay.

So the anomaly was like when this person was in LA, then LA people popped up. But we We were able to... It was very easy to sleath it because of the locations.

Okay, you guys are pissed.

Yes. You're pissed.

Scared.

You're scared.

Okay, the next email from Jason. The subject line is $1,000.

Oh, boy. That's right.

This is Beth's brothers again. I'm trying to understand my sister's last month since her behavior essentially added up to an unintentional suicide. I'm also trying not to read her correspondence in order to leave her some privacy.

Okay. You But I'm in her email. Yeah.

I saw, however, that Beth paid you $1,000. That has me concerned. That would have been a huge amount of money for Beth, so I really can't imagine what she bought from you. Clearly, I don't know you or what you do, but I feel like I need to know what she thought was worth so much during such a miserable time. Even if she purchased something illegal from you, I swear to God, I don't care. I just want to know. Please contact me. Please, all caps, contact me within the next 24 hours. After that, I have to start making funeral arrangements. You can email me here or call me or text me. I thought I understood my sister's last week's until I saw this purchase. Please, I need to know what it was.

Yeah, so this person starts really baiting me to call this number.

And are you guys like, I want to call the number? No.

No. I'm like, I don't want anything. I want this person to go away. And as these emails become more and more intense, the more flicked out we get. Okay.

Next email. I'm begging you. Subject line. All caps. I don't understand. My sister has died. I don't know what her relationship to you was. Then I see that she gave you $1,000. I tried contacting you every way I can think of. I even started a Twitter account just to contact you. I thought you were just not seeing these messages until you blocked my Twitter account. I don't know what the issue is. Even a simple go to hell would tell me more than you have. For the last time, please contact me. I had just one question for you. My sister died scared and in pain and gave what would have seemed like a fortune to her, yet you're not willing to talk to me once?

It's interesting having distance from this now because in that moment, we were so, obviously so angry, scared, and paranoid.

Yeah.

But now it is interesting to think that, oh my God, this thing that they'd put so much time in for over a year, they're freaking out that it's over, that they don't get to play with these puppet strings anymore.

A hundred %.

And also I think freaking out as to why it ended. Because I did go radio silent right when we found out that she had attempted suicide.

Well, I think they know. Speaking of big swings, that was a big swing that they took. It was. And it backfired.

No, no. But I think they're wondering why it backfired. I don't think that they know at this point how we could have figured out that something was fishy.

They're spiraling majorly. Similar to what's happening with you guys, but in a much- Right in this very moment.

In a much more devastating way for them.

Yes, it's true. I mean, if we're going to- Their life's work.

It is. Is being pulled right out from under them.

And of course, It feels so horrific. And the details of the emails of all of these people, and their back stories, and her mom has died.

As you pointed out, her name is Beth. Her name is Beth. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, it feels so violating, extremely violating. Yet, if I'm going to step in this person's point of view, in some ways, I believe, and this is just, I guess, what we do on the show, whether it's good or bad, but try to lend some compassion. What was happening to you was happening to this person. You You were slowly getting sucked into a thing that was then far beyond. You had no control over it. I would bet a similar thing was happening here, where it started with, I'm going to write a question in as a person.

Oh, that's interesting.

And that was fun, and that gave that person something. And then a year and a half later, here we are.

I have zero zero, zero, zero compassion for this person. I know. But I will say revisiting this stuff with you guys, I have had moments where I'm impressed, just how intricate it all is. There is an awe that I have that I would have never expected to feel, but zero compassion.

Yeah, that's fair. Okay, so later that day, again from Beth, What the Hell subject line. I've been dying to know why my sister, Beth, gave you $1,000. It just didn't make any sense to me since she was simultaneously ignoring her own well-being to a fatal degree. My guess was that she had bought something from you. Since I wasn't getting any clarification from you, I made an exception and read the exchanges Beth had with you. I'm sorry, but now I'm upset. My sister donated $1,000 to you. You haven't even acknowledged her death. Beth evidently thought you were some friend to her. You may be a nice person, but it's clear to me that she was wrong. Ignore what I said earlier. I have no desire to ever speak to you. No, And then, Natasha also is sending you an email. I think Andrew sent you a note about Beth's passing, right? It's so incredibly sad. Did he tell you that they have determined finally the cause of all this? It's you, Elizabeth. No, she doesn't say that. It somehow makes the whole thing worse. I can't help but feel that her fiancé and his family are responsible for her death.

But even though I only spoke to Beth by phone, I've been really shaken by her passing. I'm so sorry for all this. Regards, Natasha.

It's a tame email.

Wait, Elizabeth, you responded.

What?

Really?

On Monday, August eighth, while all this is happening, Natasha emails, Elizabeth, I understand that Andrews has told you what is happening with Beth, correct? Very sad. I don't know if you've had any contact with her brother, so I apologize if I'm repeating things that you've heard already. Andrews called her brother Jason this morning because he spent some time studying neurology at university. The outlook for Beth is not as bright as I had hoped. Though she can speak a bit, Beth can't seem to process what other people are. Oh, this is before you were told- Wow.

Okay.

Oh, Lord. Okay. This is before you were told she had died.

And when did I respond to that?

You responded, Oh, wow, this has all been so awful. Wishing you all the best.

I knew at that point.

Yeah, at that point, you knew. Then, Natasha says, and this is two days later, I think Andrew sent you the note about that's passing. Right.

Got it. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. So, Natasha's in and out. Andrew's in and out. Natasha, again on August 11th. This is once you'd gone silent. Elizabeth, I'm surprised to have not heard from you about this development. This makes me worried for you. Are you all right?

You know, I have so many questions that I never want to pose to this person, but I would love to know the answers to. And one of them is, was that donation made made specifically so that this could be played later as a, Wait, what? She donated?

Of course. It's adding more ties to you.

Yeah.

I think sometimes narcissists do this. Were they make you indebted to them?

Right. Was it all calculated? And did they know the end when they started? Right. Or- Did it get out of hand? Was it just following where the wind blew? And I'm curious about that.

Yeah, me too. There are so many unanswered questions. But also, just to be clear, you guys do know who it is, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Figuring out who it is is its own whole journey, which we'll get to.

Can you say who it is?

It's weird. I mean, now it even feels weird just saying, revealing who it is because I'm getting freaked out. I know.

I'm scared of him, and he's still out there.

Yeah. How about no names? Maybe we can avoid names, but is there anything about this person we can say?

Yes. Okay. So he's a man living a full life. He has a family, a full-time job.

He's older in his 60s. He's Professor.

Professor.

East Coast-style professor.

Prominent East Coast school.

Oh, my God.

I know. So, yeah, he's actually We were shocked to figure it out, but he's in a position of power and status and is a known figure.

If you don't want to wait for more Beths Dead, you can binge the entire series today at patreon. Com/bethsdead, where all 10 episodes are available ad-free right now. Beths Dead is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman, and nobody's listening, right? It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lane, and Monica Padman. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis, music and sound by Andy Rosen. Special thanks to Andrea and Gabe at Duck Brigade and Tammy Sager.