Transcript of True Crime Vault: Ruby Franke: From Momfluencer to Felon

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Police officers, open up! Jodi, I need you to step out.

I have—

I have my attorney. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Slow.

We're just going to search the house.

There's 2 other kids there.

We need to go do a security sweep of that house.

So many desperate searches.

Where?

We didn't know if another sibling was possibly even dead.

So few answers until now. The police tapes being seen for the first time. So they do an hours-long search.

Gathered ropes, handcuffs. There were rolls of duct tape, the things that were clearly evidence of abuse.

You have now heard about this since the arrest of a 2 million subscriber plus YouTube mom vlogger. You guys, in one day, In one year, we've gained 600,000 subscribers. Ruby Franke has been charged with 6 felony counts of child abuse. If you cut one more thing in my house, I'm going to take the scissors—

look at me—

and I'm gonna cut its head off.

Grandma, you're so bad!

Ruby Franke built a persona of, you know, strict parenting.

Strict or sadistic?

This is a witch hunt. The devil's been after me for years.

Police department, make yourself known. It's a hot summer morning in the Kayenta neighborhood of Ivins, Utah, when a Ring camera picks up a young boy Not wearing any shoes, approaching a home. He rings the doorbell. No one answers. A minute later, another Ring camera from the neighboring home picks up the same boy. He tries the doorbell. It seems like no one's home at first, but then the door opens.

Yes. Hi, I was just wondering if you could do 2 favors. Well, what are they? Taking me to the nearest police station. Well, actually, just one's fine. What's going on, son? Have a seat there.

And what happens next will kick off an investigation that will rock this otherwise sleepy, picturesque suburb. In fact, it'll shock the world.

911, tell me exactly what's happened. I just had a 12-year-old boy show up here at my front door asking for help, and he's, uh, said he just came from a neighbor's house. He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry and he's thirsty. Okay.

One of the most gut-wrenching things about that 911 call, you can hear in that In that homeowner's voice, he starts to cry, talking about the boy.

He has duct tape around each ankle. I think there's a good chance he's been, uh, this kid has obviously been— he's been detained. He's been— he's obviously covered in wounds. Okay, we need the police here now. Has he told you where his mom or dad are? He just says he doesn't live around here. Does he know his mom's name? Ruby Frankie is his mom's name.

Within minutes of the call, the EMTs and officers arrive. The very first thing that kind of stood out to me the second we got on scene was That first look at him, it just hit that there was something wrong. To the EMTs, the boy looks malnourished and has severe injuries. To protect his identity, we're calling him R. And what you're about to see may be unsettling.

He had duct tape wrapped around him, and underneath the duct tape was Saran Wrap wrapped around both of his legs. And on both the wrists were the same.

I don't think there's one emotion that you can use to describe this call.

There was sadness.

It was everywhere. It was heavy.

It was felt by everybody around. The poignant scene is unfolding in this quiet neighborhood with this stunning backdrop, and Sergeant Nick Tobler arrives on the scene His body camera rolling.

We're watching EMTs tend to him, and he was wincing to any kind of pain when they lift his legs up.

And what does that indicate?

That he's been through a lot of pain.

He was very calm. He never cried. He was just stoic, like unwavered strength from this kid.

You could see the joints in his legs. They were abnormal. You could see malnutrition, just not enough food, not enough intake.

Officer Pikiewicz's body camera captures a telling conversation on how these wounds got there. Who put the ropes on you?

When I asked him how did he get the injuries, he told me that his mom and Jodi R. said that they bound his arms. and his feet to weights on the ground, restricting his movement. When I heard him say that, it hit me pretty hard. I had to excuse myself out of the ambulance.

Later, detectives learned that it wasn't just the ropes that bound him and caused those wounds. It was also handcuffs. And did he tell you how he escaped?

He told us later in interviews that he unlocked the handcuffs from his wrists and his ankles, and then he exited through the sliding glass door of the room.

And did he tell you about his motivation, his state of mind in that moment?

Just hungry. He was hungry and thirsty, and he saw an opportunity to leave.

While R is being treated, he tells officers that he has 2 siblings who he thinks are still back at the house.

We didn't know if another sibling was in the same state of condition or possibly even dead in the home.

If there's 2 other kids there, we need to go do a security sweep of that house.

That house, police learn, doesn't belong to the boys' mother, but to someone named Jodi. Jodi Hildebrandt. And R's mother Ruby, so far, is nowhere to be found.

So we get there, we hop out of the vehicles, we get to the front door. Police officers, open up!

She finally answered the door.

Jodi, I need you to step out.

I have—

I have my attorney.

That's great. Step out of the house.

When she answered, she had a phone in her hand.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Slow!

We're just going to— Come on, get me out.

Just have a seat right there for me.

Do you have a search warrant?

I'll explain it after this. We were able to enter Jodi's house due to the evidence exigent circumstances that surrounded us finding R.

For exigent circumstances, this is a life-saving effort.

The officers entered the home and began clearing the house. Police officers, anybody home? Looking for the other children.

Clear.

Yep. Police, anybody home? Police officers.

Just over 10,000 square feet.

Take the hall.

OK. You got it.

This home has multiple bedrooms, Bedrooms, bathrooms, hallways.

Weight room.

Almost like a compound.

We entered a room that had a bed in it with an attached bathroom and an attached closet. It was empty. Like, there was no clothes hanging up. None of the drawers were full. And in the middle of the floor—

Come on, my buddy.

I'm a police officer. Hey, you okay? Is it just you in here? I'm Sergeant Tobler. What's your name? We at first thought it might have been a little boy sitting there cross-legged, just staring up at us.

You doing okay?

You don't want to talk to me? Yeah, that's okay.

What was the look on that child's face?

It looked scared. The child looked scared.

At the time, Sergeant Tobler called me and I was in the hospital with R. So I began asking R, hey, do you have a little brother? He said, no, I have a younger sister there, 9-year-old. And he said she had a shaved head and she had brown hair. I said, when's the last time you saw her? And he said, it's been over a month.

They were in the same home and they didn't see each other for a month.

Yeah. At that moment, we kind of connected the dots that that was who Sergeant Tolbert was sitting with in the closet.

It's okay if I just sit here with you. We don't have to say anything if you don't want to.

Did she say anything about her being afraid of you?

Yeah. She just kept asking, where's Jodi at? Would Jodi be okay if they came in? She was concerned what Jodi would think.

Did she mention her mom at all?

No, she did not. I get if you're scared. I would be too. You're in no way in any trouble. I'm not here to hurt you. I just want to make sure you're okay.

For over 2 hours, Tobler has been sitting with E. That's how Will refer to her, trying to make her more comfortable with his presence. Yet E remains motionless and afraid. But one suggestion gets her attention.

I says, I bet you like pizza. She nodded her head.

She ate the whole thing, so they ordered another one. And she ate half of a large pizza as well, along with a shake.

And what does that tell you about how hungry she was?

Food deprived, hungry, just like R was at the time.

While E remains in the closet, officers are still searching for a possible second child in the home.

I've got a— in a room back here.

They don't find that child, but they do come upon a large What do they find?

We found rope. We found handcuffs. It was really set up like a private room.

More than 4 hours after police make entry into Jodi's home, Eve finally agrees to leave the closet. While E is led to the ambulance, Jodi Hildebrandt is placed in a secure room in the house. That's when the children's mother, Ruby Franke, arrives at the home.

Okay, just place your hands behind your back for me. Immediately, we're shocked she's here.

And just who is Ruby Franke? It turns out she's wildly famous for all the wrong reasons. It's been several hours since police first got a call that young children may be in grave danger at the home of someone named Jodi Hildebrandt in Ivins, Utah. But the children aren't Jodi's. Their mother is Ruby Franke, who prosecutors say had been hundreds of miles away as the reality of her kids' horror is being uncovered.

Ruby is in a panic and driving down from northern Utah.

We got information that she showed up at the police department. So she spoke with our secretary and said, I was told my kids are here. And our secretary said, no, they're not. And she frantically took off. And while we're serving the search warrant of the home in Ivins, Ruby Franke shows up.

And so when she showed up, she was immediately detained.

She's sitting in there for hours.

Yes.

While the search is being done.

Correct. She came down here looking for her 2 children, but never really digs into that. Like, tell me where my kids are at. Are they OK? It's just none of that. It's just quiet and silence.

Officers spend nearly 6 hours searching Jodi's home that day and collect multiple bags of evidence.

Due to the totality of the circumstances and the evidence that we have found, there's enough to charge these 2 with aggravated child abuse.

Detective Bate came into the room and informed Jodi that we were detaining her, and that's when she was handcuffed.

Mom, the door is locked.

Yeah, we'll make sure everything's locked up for you, all right? Ruby, when I placed her in handcuffs, very quiet. Okay, just place your hands behind your back for me.

Perfect.

All right, you're just gonna walk with Officer Hines.

This next one right, right here.

Okay, go ahead and have a seat.

Once we transported her back, that's when I held an interview with Ruby Franke.

At one point, you describe her sitting and Staring off.

Yeah.

Almost like in a trance.

She was just really— seemed like she was looking through me. I would ask her a question and she'd give me like 3 long blinks. Do you want to talk to me about where you live or how many kids you have? So we just spoke with your husband and he said you guys have 6 kids. Are those all together? Are those all your kids? I'm like, don't know what to do with that. I don't know if you're telling me something. It's like Morse code. I can wait all day, so it's up to you if you want to talk to us about what's going on.

I'll wait till I have a lawyer.

So that's where it ended.

The Ruby Franke in that interrogation room is tight-lipped and stone-faced. It's a stark contrast with the animated and highly vocal mommy vlogger that fans saw on her popular YouTube channel, 8 Passengers. You guys, none of my kids had training wheels.

In 2015, Ruby Franke monetizes her persona as mother and good Mormon housewife.

Let's have a prayer.

And she starts this vlog called 8 Passengers, And she was chronicling her life with her 6 children and her husband, Kevin, in Utah.

There's Sherri and Chad, the 2 oldest children, who are now adults. Then there are 2 teenage girls in the middle, and the 2 youngest children, E and R. Ruby would post sort of the standard family vlog style of videos. But it did seem like from right off the bat, discipline was kind of a focus. You're still gonna have the consequence of not having your nails done for a month. There's the natural, I suppose, challenges the kids are facing or that the parents are facing. You're going to have to selectively neglect something. And sometimes I have to neglect the kids because Kevin needs attention.

They seemed real and relatable and also vulnerable as parents.

She had made a name for herself as a Mormon mom influencer.

This is the last time we're gonna have family prayer in this home.

The official name of, of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the church has always embraced technology as a way of spreading the message, whether it be radio or television, or now the internet and social media.

Beyond spreading the message— All right, you guys, we're gonna go check out another church. I'm really, really excited. Mommy vlogging, or momfluencers, can be big business. It's a way for them to potentially support their family's income, which is typically not that possible when you have a lot of kids and you're encouraged to stay home.

It allowed church members to project into the world this image that the church had been teaching for many decades, but now you could do it on social media.

Very quickly, 8 Passengers had millions of viewers for almost all of their videos.

But in 2022, Ruby abandoned her and joined forces with Jodi Hildebrandt, a therapist who was also the Frinkes' marriage counselor. Together, Ruby and Jodi became the face of Jodi's online life coaching business called Connections. Welcome to Connections. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt. And I'm Ruby Frinke. We want to have relationships where we feel close and where— where there's love. But as we all know, what's been packaged and sold on social media isn't necessarily what's happening in real life. 2 young children who, at first, seemed so loved in those early videos somehow ended up starved and abused.

I was not prepared for what I saw. When I saw the injuries, it was very alarming. Children don't belong in the hospital.

But while Ruby's 2 youngest children are at the hospital, getting the medical attention they so badly need. The question now is, where are Ruby's 2 other minor children? And could they be in danger? Police department, open up! On that fateful day of August 30th, 2023—

So it's just you in here?

Ruby Franke's 2 youngest children, ages 11 9 and 12 were rescued after being held captive in Jodi Hildebrandt's Ivins, Utah home. The other 2 minor kids are also missing, so police in Springville, Utah, 3.5 hours north of Ivins, are contacted.

They notified us that the 2 youngest children from the Fienke family had been located, but there were 2 teenage daughters that their whereabouts were unknown.

Springville police arrive here at the Francke home in an urgent search for the 2 middle children who are teenagers. Police worry they could be in danger too. Police department!

They received no response from inside the house. Our officers had to just sit there and wait for the warrant. Once we had the warrant, our officers used a ram in order to open the door.

Police department! Make yourself known!

The preliminary search in this case took about 5 minutes.

This is clear.

Our officers did not locate the 2 unaccounted-for teenage daughters, and so we conducted a secondary search.

Any part a little emaciated kid can fit.

We checked freezers, refrigerators.

Hey, have we checked garage yet?

Large bags that were in the garage.

Police searched every corner of the house, but no sign of the teenagers. But as the search ends, 20-year-old Sherry Franke is able to help police with a lead. Sherry, Ruby's oldest daughter, who was away at college, tips police that one sister is at a local rec center.

Employees at the rec center had said that this young woman had left with an Turns out that person had picked up both of the Francke daughters.

It's a business associate of Jodi and Ruby's, Pam Bodger. Police are dispatched to her home.

You have a warrant? Yeah, we do.

Will you just tell them you're all right?

Sure enough, the teens are there, and police ask why.

She comes over to my house all the time.

The 2, visibly unharmed, wait on the porch while Pam is being questioned. Given the evidence of child abuse concerning the other Francke children, the Department of Child and Family Services now places the teen kids in their care. I'm with DCFS.

Like, right now, you and your siblings are in state custody.

So even though the 2 teen daughters are found there are still a series of questions for police. At the top of the list, where is the father of the Francke children?

So the same day that we placed Ruby Francke and Jodi under arrest, Kevin also came to the police department looking for his kids.

Was he considered a suspect?

At that time, yes, he was.

And so he is placed in an interrogation room.

Well, I want to pick up my kids. I haven't seen them for over a year.

Any of them?

No.

None of them.

Between 2022 and 2023, Kevin Francke has moved out. Sherri is in college. Chad has also moved out. So it's now Ruby and 4 children.

Was he even aware that the kids were at Jodi's house?

We don't know if he was. It's clear that he moved out in July of 2022. He was still having therapy with Jodi.

It turns out Jodi Hildebrandt was Kevin and Ruby's marriage counselor.

They just worked on their marriage like most people do when relationship issues come up.

Was that part of your guys' reason for separation?

The reasons are because of ways that I treated my wife. And so, uh, of my own addictions that I was working through and seeking help on with pornography.

Thank you for sharing that.

Jodi saw the need for me to get help, and frankly, I agreed. Part of that process was stay away from your children and only respond to Ruby when she contacts you.

And did you ever try to reach out to the kids, drop by the home, or—

No.

Was there—

I honored the separation boundary that we agreed to. Have you communicated with your wife regarding, like, discipline with your kids or their care or their physical well-being?

No.

And then detectives explained to Kevin just how his 2 youngest children were found earlier that day.

A 12 to 13-year-old boy was knocking on doors in a neighborhood asking for food and water, that he was severely emaciated, that he had— What does emaciated mean? Skinny, scrawny, malnutritioned, not enough food, not enough water. Sustained life. So he had— I'm sorry, what?

After a short break, the police, along with the child advocate, come back into the room.

Folks, I don't know what to do. I have no idea what you're talking about. It's just— it sounds like a horror movie.

During the interrogation, Kevin appears bewildered, but he also stands by his wife.

I love my wife. I don't want anything to incriminate her or me in ways that I don't understand.

The next day, Kevin's wife, Ruby, calls him from the Purgatory Correctional Facility. And she has a bizarre question.

Are we in the news? It sounds like at least you're in the news. This is a witch hunt. The devil's been after me for years. And I'm a good woman. I don't do naughty things. I'm a really good girl.

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The arrest of a popular YouTube mom.

Ruby Franke has been charged with 6 felony counts of child abuse. How am I going to show you here? Thanks to Ruby Franke's popularity from her viral 8 Passengers YouTube vlogs, news of her arrest floods the national news. The YouTube star known for her tough-love parenting advice, tonight she is under arrest. on suspicion of child abuse. And it's that strict parenting style that seemed to be part of the appeal, as her personal brand in those 8 Passengers videos had evolved from one of family fun to tough love. You're gonna lose the privilege to eat dinner.

Ruby Franke built a brand of strict parenting. You see someone who so believes in what they're doing and that it is right that she's publicizing what she is doing as though it is right.

I'm going to take the scissors.

Look at me.

And I'm going to cut its head off. Grandma will be so mad. Since the arrest of a 2 million subscriber plus YouTube mom vlogger, the internet has gone absolutely wild. But perhaps the most striking, most remarkable reaction to Ruby's arrest comes from her oldest daughter, Sherri, seemingly breathing a sigh of relief by posting on her Instagram, finally. And then she adds something even more ominous and illuminating. We've been trying to tell the police and Child Protective Services for years about this, and so glad they finally decided to step up. It's a major I told you so.

Yes, definitely.

When I spoke with Sherri, she Had kind of been estranged from her family based on their strict parenting and kind of things that they had put her through.

In fact, ABC News has obtained a call that Sherri Francke made for a welfare check in 2022 when her father was already out of the house, sounding concerned about her siblings.

Dispatch? Hi, my name is Sherri Francke. My 4 younger siblings are living Springville, and my neighbors have been telling me that they have been left home alone for about 4 or 5 days, and so I was curious if someone could go check on them. I know CPS has come a couple times because of this already, but they never find a problem, but it keeps happening. So I'm gonna have an officer give you a call back.

In conjunction with DCFS, we returned to the home multiple occasions to try to speak with the mother and/or the children. But they would not answer the door. They sought a warrant to try to get into the home. The warrant was not approved. It was frustrating at the time because we weren't able to gather any evidence that criminal activity had occurred.

ABC News reached out to DCFS, and they declined to comment, citing privacy concerns. Utah's Child Welfare Legislative Oversight Panel has the authority to investigate cases like this, but so far, no investigation has been launched. The day after her arrest, Ruby is being held at Purgatory Correctional Facility. According to jail call records, she places several calls to Kevin. Ruby seems to be defending her treatment of their kids.

I do feel strong and I feel calm. And you know what? Adults have a really hard time understanding that children can be full of evil. And what that takes to fight it.

Then Kevin is heard on the call giving an update on their youngest children.

They're going to be in the hospital for 3 days. So weird. It's just not necessary. They're trying to exaggerate this.

But despite hearing some of the realities of the situation she's in, Ruby isn't convinced she's in trouble.

Maybe in 10 days I'll get out of this. Satan has taken everything away from me that I love. And I'm a good woman. I don't do naughty things. I'm a really good girl.

Before Jodi Hildebrandt entered the Frankies' lives, and before Kevin, Sherri, and Chad moved out, there had been signs that the wheels were coming off the 8-passenger, well-presented, and tight-knit family. My bedroom was taken away for 7 months, and then you give it back, like, a couple weeks ago. I don't think our viewers know that.

He's been sleeping on a beanbag since October. LDS kids are raised with the sense of being obedient, that there are morals, that there are standards that they should follow, that if you follow those standards, your life will be happier, you'll be safer. But church leaders have been consistent and unequivocal in recent years in terms of condemning abuse of any kind.

Outcry after viewers of 8 Passengers became worried when Ruby posted about her youngest daughter forgetting her school lunch. I just got a text message, uh, from teacher, and she said that did not pack a lunch today. She's just going to need to be hungry. Viewers elevate their concerns, and in May of 2020, a Change.org petition with about 18,000 signatures circulates urging Child Protective Services to investigate the Frankies. As the online chatter grows louder and news of the Change.org petition gets out, criticism of Ruby escalates and becomes more aggressive, she claims.

Ruby and Kevin Franke were getting death threats. They had someone completely hooded go up to their door and leave a note with a threatening message. You start to see the family distancing themselves from the video lens. It went from multiple videos a day to tapering off, and you only saw one, you know, every couple of weeks.

By 2023, the 8 Passengers YouTube channel had all but disappeared. But not before things would get even darker for the Francke family, and for the woman who would soon be seen as the wedge driving them apart. As police dive deeper into the tangled web of family dysfunction within the Francke family—

Police officers, open up!

It becomes clear to investigators that problems really began—

Jodi?

When Jodi Hildebrandt, the therapist who ran the online life coaching business Connections, entered the picture. Welcome to the Empowering Joy class. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt. But just who is Jodi Hildebrandt?

Jodi Hildebrandt was a licensed therapist who worked mostly with Mormon couples and families.

Her primary clientele was from 12 steps, Alcoholics Anonymous. You have Sex Addiction Anonymous. She had a great reputation. Jodi ran her own practice in the Salt Lake City area. And according to former clients, many of her referrals came from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So I was seeing Jodi because my former husband and I had very severe marital issues, and I told him that I wouldn't stay with him unless we could seek counseling. Stephanie Jones is a former patient of Jodi Hildebrandt. She says at first, Jodi's counseling sessions were going well. The first time we met with Jodi, she seemed very kind and understanding and very charismatic. I thought that Jodi was gonna solve everything and we were gonna have a happy marriage.

As I met with her longer, then it became clear that there were certain things I couldn't say to her if it didn't fall in line with what she taught.

Stephanie says that things really took a dark turn during Jodi's group counseling sessions. In the group sessions, it was like a public shaming.

So you had to write down if you kept your commitments to yourself, things like that.

And if your numbers were not good enough, then she would rake you over the coals. Others in Jodi's group say they also felt uneasy.

We'd be in group sessions, and she would call out people like, this is distortion, or cut them off and belittle them. And she would emasculate men in a massive way.

There were complaints from other men in the group sessions as well. Although pornography addiction is not recognized as a disorder by the American Psychiatric Association, a lot of clients sought Jodi out for that. But some, like former patient Adam Steed, an ex-member of the church, say she had extreme views on how to treat porn addiction.

Back then, I used to say I had a porn problem because in Mormonism, if you've ever looked at pornography in your life, you have a porn problem. Like, ever, even if it was for 10 minutes. And Jodi figured out how to exploit that.

With Jodi, you look at it one time and you're an addict.

Oh, your husband looked at porn? Have him sleep on the couch downstairs.

He masturbates?

Couch.

Does it more than once?

He should move out.

Like, um, most women in my group were separated from their husbands, or they were at least sleeping in separate bedrooms.

And in the case of Adam Steed, he says Jodi ruined his marriage and his reputation. Telling lies about him. So, it's group therapy. When does it turn?

What she did is she took our wives and started lying to them by telling them that we were confessing to all sorts of crazy sexual things in the guys' group. Jodi Hildebrandt called me a child pedophile, a child rapist.

Adam's marriage eventually ended. Through her attorney, Adam's ex-wife declined to comment. Eventually, he reported Jodi Hildebrandt to the state of Utah for acting unethically as a counselor. Jodi was subpoenaed by Adam Steed, and she was shocked. The context of it was that she had reached out to Brigham Young University and told them about what she had seen in her clinical office. It didn't ring true at all that she had done this.

It—

because there's such strong ethical guidelines as a therapist that you never would disclose to any outside entity. In 2012, Utah's Division of Professional Licensing, or DOPL, put Jodi's counseling license on an 18-month probation, finding she'd been sharing confidential information about Adam with the Mormon Church and Brigham Young University, information which Adam says got him expelled from his college. and the church in 2009. We reached out to BYU, but citing federal privacy laws, they said they could not comment. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints tells us Jodi was removed from a community resource list of therapists in 2012. When her license was put on probation, what was your reaction? I was surprised they didn't revoke her license. But Hildebrandt's career survives the incident, and she actually She actually expands her brand, launching that online life coaching program, Connections. Welcome to Connections. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt. So glad you're with us. Connections is the solution. In 2020, that's when Ruby Franke hires Jodi as a marriage counselor and later starts appearing in Connections videos and podcasts. The women post dozens of videos on Connections together. As they appear to form a bond, both professionally and personally.

In fact, at one point, Jodi had a crisis of her own in her home. And while Kevin was initially hesitant, he was convinced by Ruby to help Jodi out.

Jodi began to live in the home with them. And at that point, that's kind of when Kevin says there was a shift in their marriage because Jodi really integrated herself, and she would go on their anniversary dinners. She would just— she would just be there.

Does that strike you as odd?

Yes.

Because how many marriage counselors move in with the couple?

I don't know of any, let alone go on their anniversary dinner.

And according to investigators, all this driving a wedge between Ruby and her husband, Kevin.

Jodi began to say that Kevin was dealing with Lust issues and addictions. And for that, he needed to be separate from Ruby.

You see a complete disintegration of the Francke family. Kevin Francke has left. He has moved out. She leaves her 2 teen girls back in the Springville home. And she essentially moves in with the family therapist, taking her 2 youngest children with her in Ivins, Utah.

Investigators say it was this bizarre living situation that police are trying to unravel as they process this house of horrors. But so many questions remain. What would possess a mother to subject her kids to this kind of abuse? Could the clues lie in a journal police have uncovered? A journal belonging to Ruby Franke. But nothing would read quite as ominously as a message written with rocks by her abused son.

where he'd been sleeping outside, he had left in rocks a statement. We were shocked.

When we come back.

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what happened in the case of Ruby Franke. But what we thought we know was just the tip of the iceberg.

Clear.

Police!

Anybody home?

Well, what goes through your mind when you see this?

I mean, handcuffs clearly can be a torture device.

We knew 14, almost 15 years ago that she's already done this to me.

Jodi?

I need you to step out.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

Jodi is an incredibly powerful, terrifying woman.

Welcome to Connections. Glad you're with us. I'm Jodi Hildebrandt. And I'm Ruby Franke.

Both Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt convinced these children that they had done atrocious acts.

When you're told you're a terrible person, you start to believe it.

Ruby seems to express zero sympathy for what she's putting her children through.

It was unlike anything that we've ever seen.

It's all about power. It's all about control.

Dehumanizing.

Dehumanizing.

We have zero reason to believe that this abuse would have stopped short of death. Like, zero.

The parenting influencer charged with child abuse.

Facing child abuse charges today in Utah.

We're used to seeing mom Ruby Franke as an influencer. but we're now seeing her as an inmate. Ruby Franke is set to appear in court today. So September 8th, 2023, a little more than a week after she's been arrested, we see Ruby Franke for the first time, not as a mom influencer, but she appears publicly in court.

Ms. Franke, can you hear me?

Yes.

Jodi Nan Hildebrandt?

Yes.

While Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt are facing their first court appearances, investigators are still trying to learn more What exactly happened in Jodi's home?

Police officers, open up!

Where Ruby's 9- and 12-year-old children, who we're calling E and R, were staying. Jodi Hildebrandt's house is just over there at the base of this red rock paradise, ironically called Hellhole Canyon. Fitting, perhaps, given the unimaginable abuse that investigators are uncovering. Everybody thinks they know We think we know what happened in the case of Ruby Franke, but you're about to release a bunch of evidence that shows what we thought we know was just the tip of the iceberg.

It blew my mind when I saw it. This isn't just a case of a social media influencer, like, pushing boundaries. The abuse is much worse than people are aware of.

When we were able to interview the kids for the second time, That's when R shared his side of the story of what happened inside the home. How he had to stand in the sun for hours a day and sleep outside. How he was deprived of food and water. How he was forced to carry boxes up and down the stairs all day. Him and E had to go to the cemetery barefoot And pick up weeds out in the heat.

In a video taken by a bystander and later provided to police, you can see R. in that cemetery. It gets to be 110 degrees.

The ground at that point would be hotter than the air, and his feet had blisters on them. His arms burned.

R. told you that he had had a birthday that year. What was he made to do on his birthday?

He said that on his birthday, he had to stand outside all day.

In the baking heat?

Yes.

What about Eve?

Eve was more reserved. She wouldn't share much. She didn't go into much, much detail.

It took a while before Eve finally opened up, and at one point, she described how that she was forced Ruby and Jody would watch her in the shower. When she brushed her teeth, they would turn off the water because that's when she would steal water. Normally, kids outgrow their clothes. She had lost so much weight that she had actually the clothes were too big to fit on her.

So in R's interview, he disclosed that there was a set of silver handcuffs used and a set of black handcuffs used. So when we found these items, it really corroborated R's story.

Well, what, what goes through your mind when you see this? I'll never look at handcuffs the same again because we've seen the injuries that these The prosecutor showed us photographs of the deep wounds from the handcuffs, what he describes as torture. We want to warn you, the image you're about to see is graphic.

And then you're starting to see the worst injuries, the ones that just really hit you. This is like injury on top of injury. This was happening for weeks.

In Jodi Hildebrandt's house, not just handcuffs, but even a trampoline used in extreme heat could be a torture device.

R, in his interview, disclosed that he was forced to jump on a trampoline for 8 to 10 hours a day out in the sun. We went back to the scene, and on the trampoline, there was, like, calcite buildup from him just sweating on that trampoline.

It confirms his story of unspeakable torture.

Yeah. So right here, you're seeing R as he approaches the neighbor's home on the day that he ran away. And you can see how small and how visible his bones are, even on his legs.

This is R's back. And you can see both how skinny he is in his arms and how far out his shoulder blades stick.

And these are obvious signs of malnutrition, of starvation.

Yeah.

When you think of R and that escape, how much courage did that take?

This, this whole thing came to light because of R. For him to go to neighbor after neighbor, find a known home, And then finding the third one, someone answered the door to tell them, hey, I need help.

What's going on, sir? Have a seat, sir. I just had a 12-year-old boy show up here at my front door. He's hungry and he's thirsty.

That shows how brave he is. He's the hero in this whole thing.

And there's the obvious question, were there signs along the way? anything that could have stopped this from happening? In the Francke family, remember, the oldest child, Sherri, had tried to raise the alarm that something was amiss with that welfare check.

My 4 younger siblings are living in Springville. And so I was curious if someone could go check on them.

But there was another warning, this one about Jodi, years earlier, from someone inside who's ready to share their story now.

We knew 14, almost 15 years ago that she's already done this to me.

When I began covering this story, I went to Seattle to meet 30-year-old Jesse Hildebrandt, who's a tattoo artist there. Who is Jodi Hildebrandt?

Jodi is my dad's sister, so she's my aunt.

Jesse, who uses they/them pronouns, is also an accomplished musician. Jesse says their experience with Jodi echoes that of Ruby Franke's 2 youngest children.

Jodi is an incredibly powerful, terrifying woman. For the longest time, I never thought about going forward because I've had almost 15 years of people telling me to get over it, to move on, stop being a victim. I had finally the validation of what happened and the validation of my story.

In 2009, Jesse was a teenager living in California with their parents and 3 siblings.

I grew up in a very traditional Mormon household. Dad My dad was the provider, and my mom was a stay-at-home mom, very good at homemaking, you know, cookies and homemade meals. When I was growing up, I very much believed in the church. I was devout, but I also was very curious, and so I wasn't afraid of asking questions. I had a lot of frustration. I was so angsty and angry, I started running away. I had a lot of interpersonal relationship issues with my dad and my mother, and that goes to the Mormon culture at large of this stay sweet, never rocking the boat, never challenging authority.

Jesse describes himself as being a rebellious teenager, you know, in part because of the upbringing, this Mormon upbringing where, you know, makeup and caffeine and going out A major turning point in their life, Jesse says, was during a trip to their grandparents' 50th anniversary party in Utah.

Jesse was 15.

I got into a fight with my mom over, like, silly teenager things. She wanted me to do the dishes. I didn't want to do the dishes. She took my phone. Just, you know, normal, angry—

Garden-variety teenage stuff.

Teenage stuff. And I went downstairs to my aunt's basement, and fell asleep. Woke up to a knock on the door. It was Jodi and my grandma and grandpa, and to tell me that my, my family had left and that I wasn't going with them and that my life as I knew it was about to change.

Jesse's parents leave their teenager with Jodi.

I'm shaking and crying, and I, I don't know how to process this. But first, she stripped me of my clothes. So I had to cut all my hair off. I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. I wasn't allowed to wear the clothes that I had. I was not allowed to go to school. She would lock me in this room and write out my sins on a paper. She would have me kneel on the floor on my hands and knees and beg for forgiveness. Jodi uses people's spirituality and belief in God against them. She shames people if they question her.

When you're told by the one person in your life, because everybody else has been thrown out, that you're a terrible person and that you deserve all the bad things that are happening to you. You start to believe it.

Jodi was convinced that I had had abortions, that I was a sex addict. I wasn't allowed to use tampons because she was convinced I was masturbating with them. And at that point in my life, I didn't even know what that meant. I wasn't allowed to be alone in the restroom. I had to keep the door open.

And who's monitoring you?

Jodi.

We spoke to a family member who said they saw you with duct tape on your face.

Yeah.

She duct taped me. Um, I wasn't allowed to speak to anyone.

What, in theory, was the justification for the duct tape?

The duct tape was, in her words, an external reminder to me that I'm a liar. And her favorite phrase, which even saying this is just— it hurts, is masterful manipulator. So even if I wasn't duct taped, if I was at a church function and someone came up and spoke to me directly, I had to just stare at them. But things got even worse.

I—

she made me sleep outside in the snow in a sleeping bag. I started fantasizing about Jumping off her balcony, about breaking my legs, about stabbing myself, about anything I could do that would just give me some escape.

After trying to run away a couple of times, Jessy says it only intensified Jodi's punishments.

She ripped me off the loveseat by my hair, blindfolded me, threw me in the car, tied my feet and my hands.

What, in theory, was the justification for what you say is being blindfolded and bound in the back of a car?

The delusion that she has that this is, like, saving me, and her belief that God is literally working through her. It's all about power. It's all about control.

In 2010, Jesse Hildebrandt goes to the police and says that there is extreme mental abuse.

In the police report, Jesse describes Jodi's treatment of them. and requested a referral to a safe house, which the police provided.

They ask for help. They ask for police to do something. The report is closed.

We contacted American Fork Police, who said they can only comment on what is in the police report. The breaking point, Jessy says, came after they'd lived with Jodi for nearly a year.

So during the week, I would go to work with her, and— because I wasn't in school. At the time, Jodi had a counseling job She would put me in this little room off the side of her office, and I would be in there up to 12 hours a day.

And one day I just walked in there, and this teenage girl was sitting there, and just said to Jodi, gosh, what is that teenager doing in there? I think this is the 3rd day. For hours on end?

Yeah.

And Jodi got very, I would say, agitated and said, Don't talk to her. All I thought was, that's odd.

One of her colleagues had found this jacket, and it was like a reversible windbreaker raincoat.

It was cold in the basement. And so you put that coat in there knowing she was cold?

Yeah.

And I had this, like, moment where I was like, if I don't leave now, I'm never getting out. And I grabbed that jacket and I I literally just started running.

Jesse says they ended up staying in a homeless shelter and slowly began the process of healing. After news broke of Jodi and Ruby's arrests, Jesse reached out to investigators in Utah who say Jesse's story mirrored Jodi's treatment of Ruby Franke's 2 youngest kids.

Why was Jesse's story important to this All of the things that Jodi did to Jesse, which I totally believe Jesse on, were the things that happened early on in the abuse last summer in our community to R and E.

So it shows a pattern of behavior.

And of control. The behavior, the brainwashing, the manipulation.

In hindsight, had Jesse's story been believed, Could this have been avoided?

Had Jesse's story been believed and people had known about it— I'm not an expert on those standards— Jody's license to practice as a therapist shouldn't have remained in place, and we would all would have been better off.

But now, nearly 15 years after Jesse's escape, it's one of Ruby's children who's run away too, and he's left behind a message.

Where he'd been sleeping outside, he had left in rocks a statement.

From the very beginning of Mormonism, Latter-day Saints were encouraged to keep journals. There's a kind of sacred duty in recording your life. The journaling is an act of gratitude to God. It's an act of devotion.

Ruby Francke was among those practicing that sacred duty. But according to prosecutors, her journal was no list of ordinary or mundane life events. Instead, it would be a game changer for the investigation. Let's talk about Ruby's journal. How was it discovered?

When we did the second search warrant of the home, we found a blue folder, and that was in the bedroom.

It's a sheaf of papers documenting the summer day by day. At the start of the journal, it's R's 12th birthday. She writes, I told R that he emulates If he wants to emulate the Savior, he needs to be 100% obedient with exactness. 7/11/23, Tuesday. R was told to stand in the sun with his sun hat. He is defiant. I come back with a cactus poker. When I poke his back to get in the sun, R doesn't even flinch.

He had been through so much pain, you could just see his pain tolerance was, you know, through the roof. Through the roof.

On 7/14/23, E refuses to work, screams, has hair shaved off.

It's the taking away their identity.

Dehumanizing.

Dehumanizing.

In the journal, Ruby describes her children R and E with words like demon, devil, possessed, insisting that they must repent.

Both Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt convinced these children that they had done atrocious acts and that this repentance process required them to do severe acts of punishment.

She clearly feels like her children had not only been, like, possessed by evil spirits, but were embracing that possession and celebrating that evilness inside of them. And so she clearly felt justified in doing anything.

Ruby seems to express zero sympathy for what she's putting her children through. When E was outside today, it was hot. She acted like she was dying. So pitiful.

There was no emotion there. There was a disconnect from, you know, a typical mother and a child.

It's something to hear it from R. It's another to read Ruby's own account of it.

Yeah.

In her own words. That in itself must have been shocking.

It was just crazy. It was unlike anything that we've ever seen. All you can think at that moment is, holy— like, we've got them. This is it. clear intent, clear knowledge of the abuse. It is documented by Ruby herself.

She was not only justifying her behavior, but she believed that her behavior was acceptable behavior and that God was approving it. The twisted logic that's going on in her mind—

As for Jodi Hildebrandt, she's referred to throughout the So it was my understanding that it was like Grandma, Joe, like Jodi, so G-Joe.

She says, G-Joe helped me intervene after work. I cut more off E's head. We doused her with water in the dog wash.

Yeah.

So G-Joe is implicated throughout the journal.

Yeah. It really shows that she was involved that both of them were very involved with the corporal punishment and physical, emotional abuse.

By mid-July 2023, the abuse is so bad that R runs away in a first failed attempt. Ruby writes, at 2:45 AM, I woke straight up out of bed. Straight up. I couldn't see R. He was gone.

Where he'd been sleeping outside he had left in rocks a statement saying, jail, I will call when I get there. They told these kids that you have to repent first and then you're going to jail. And so that's why he said, I'd much rather just go to jail now.

Ruby writes, oh God, oh Father, we need a miracle. We need your help now.

She's praying her guts out and driving around in a panic, and they're all just terrified.

Ruby and Jodi split up in separate cars to search for R. After 15 minutes of driving, Ruby finds him walking on the road, and she writes, I get out of the car. R is shocked to see me.

And at that point, that's when he asked me to have sex with him. He started to become handcuffed and bound so that he wouldn't escape again.

If all this isn't upsetting enough, then Ruby reveals something else in her writings— a plan to leave the state with her kids and Jodi in tow.

One of the things that terrifies me in that journal is how she talks about how important it is for them to move to a house on a lake.

In Arizona?

In Arizona, on a ranch-style property.

Ruby writes, G. Joe has been looking for property and is feeling more imminent, the need to get these kids to open land. Pop, we will drop them like hot potatoes out in the desert, their new home. And why does that terrify you?

Because if that had happened, we have zero reason to believe that this abuse would have stopped shortly thereafter.

How bulletproof was this case as you were heading towards trial?

It's not that often that you have one of the 2 co-defendants cataloging their criminal acts that they're doing.

So as their case moves closer to trial, prosecutors are preparing what their evidence might be, including phone calls Jodi's making from jail.

So now it's time to get the evidence. It's abusive to make a kid sleep on the floor. It's abusive. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. You can't even raise your kids anymore.

A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside a case that has captivated the nation.

To many people, Luigi Mangione is a modern-day Robin Hood.

People were cheering. The demise of this person they'd never met, who was a father of 2 and a husband and had a life and was just doing a job.

From the manhunt ending in a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, to what authorities are saying about a possible motive, I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmire. Listen to Burden of Proof: Luigi Mangione wherever you get your podcasts.

In a sunny Californian suburb, one family's home is unusually quiet.

When detectives walked into that house, they said that it was like time just stood still.

It's 2010, and the McStay family is nowhere to be found. Inside the home, no clear answer where the family could have gone.

Husband, wife, and 2 children, all gone.

Like, poof, disappeared.

The search for the McStays quickly captures the nation. But for years, the search for answers only brings more questions.

Who's ever heard of an entire family going missing?

A family of 4 doesn't just drop off the face of the earth. Is this a family on the run, or is the truth far more sinister? From ABC Audio and 20/20, this is What Happened to the McStays? Follow What Happened to the McStays for weekly episodes wherever you get your podcasts, or if you can't wait, the entire series Purgatory.

In some religious traditions, it's a place between heaven and hell, But it's also the name of the jail where Ruby Franke and Jody Hildebrandt are being held without bail, facing up to 6 charges of aggravated child abuse each.

This is a call from and paid for by—

Jody Hildebrandt.

An inmate at Purgatory Correctional Facility. This call is subject to recording and monitoring.

I frequently monitor jailhouse calls on cases because a lot of people say stuff that you can use in trials. Jodi gets in there and starts saying things like, you know, I don't know why I'm here.

I shouldn't be here. I haven't done anything wrong. I can't believe what I'm being accused of. I just can't believe it. I just can't believe it.

This must be part of God's bigger plan.

I'm like, well, what's a better example than to go to prison unjustly and then go teach the gospel?

To, like, it's the— it's these rotten kids' fault.

We didn't do that. Those pictures we did not do. He did that to himself, yes. Did we put that on him and then he rubbed around and cut himself? Yes. But we didn't do that.

So what does that tell you about her mindset?

It's troubling, at least, to hear someone justify the type of abuse that we know happened and to continue to try to convince others that everything that she was doing was the right thing.

In the weeks following their arrests, Ruby and Jodi claim innocence on the charges against them. And remember, when police first question Ruby's husband Kevin, he stands by her.

What's going to happen with my wife? I love my wife and I trust my wife.

And just to be clear as day, Kevin initially was considered a suspect.

In that circumstance, he's going to be considered a suspect.

However, 2 weeks later, police call Kevin in for a second interview, and this time Instead of defending his wife, Kevin has a change of heart.

Every week was just hell, psychological hell, and Jodi was running it. I can't describe to you what torture and hell it was to live an entire—

it was more than a month, really, in complete isolation, believing that I was You going through that is gonna be extremely helpful with fucking and whoring, 'cause a lot of those are the same words that were used with them, and you're gonna understand how they felt.

The main difference between that interview and the first interview is he now knows what his children had been subjected to, that his wife, Ruby, and Jodi had done some terrible things to them. And at that point, his willingness to protect his wife and keep her from getting in further trouble was removed. He was more concerned about his children. It became clear that he wasn't really a person of interest, and he was off the hook. He was off the hook pretty quickly because there just wasn't any evidence. We, we had a journal saying everything that had happened in the home over the summer, and, and it never said he was in the home.

Kevin is no longer on investigators' lists of suspects. He's now reconciling with his 2 oldest and once estranged children, Sherri and Chad. Any comments for today? Not today, thanks. Probably shouldn't today, thanks. And he's fighting to regain custody of his youngest 4. Kevin also files for divorce from Ruby. Meanwhile, Ruby faces the possibility of spending Christmas in jail. Prosecutors monitoring her calls sense she's also starting to see things differently. Could Ruby be ready to flip?

This has been the strangest and the most miraculous intervention. It put everybody where they needed to be. It separated me from Jodi. So I'm not hearing her. And I think just being gone and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me.

By listening to the jailhouse calls, we were able to determine that Ruby Franke, that the more time that she was away from Jodi Hildebrandt, the more understanding that she had of the injuries to her own children. that she was able to express remorse, regret, and that she wanted to then help with the case.

She was willing to admit that what she did was awful and that she was going to plead to, to a pretty strict plea deal. Ms. Francke is now here.

But also, So she was willing to testify against Jodi?

Yeah.

That's a big deal.

I really did feel like being arrested, like a rescue. Like, I just felt so many angels around me.

Summer has turned to fall, has turned to winter, and prosecutors are learning that as the seasons have changed, Ruby's story might be changing too.

Ms. Francke is now here. It was our understanding that Ruby felt the, the right thing to do at that point was to accept responsibility for her own conduct and that Jodi should do the same. And if that meant for Ruby to testify against Jodi Hildebrandt, she would do that.

On December 18th, 2023, Ruby pleads guilty to 4 second-degree felony charges of aggravated child abuse. The remaining 2 charges are dropped.

Ms. Francke, how do you plead to count 1, aggravated child abuse?

Guilty.

To count 3, aggravated child abuse.

Guilty.

To count 5, aggravated child abuse.

Guilty.

And to count 6, aggravated child abuse.

With my deepest regret and sorrow for my family and my children, guilty.

The stakes for Jodi were higher because Ruby was now going to testify against her. against her, and we were seriously looking at adding additional charges.

But that would not come to pass. On December 27th, 2023, Jodi, knowing that her former friend and business partner was willing to testify against her, she also pleads guilty to the same 4 charges of aggravated child abuse.

Guilty.

Court therefore dismisses the remaining 2 counts.

What did you think when you heard that Jodi was gonna take a plea?

I was relieved because I didn't want to have to drag the victims through all of this.

Thank you.

We'll be in recess. The plea bargain was that we would drop 2 of the 6 charges, and they had to agree to plead to 4 counts, and that they would serve prison for each count, and that those counts would run consecutively, not concurrently.

With both women pleading to the same charges, the plea deal makes no distinction between the co-defendants' roles in the abuse. Although, in recognition of Ruby's cooperation in the case, prosecutors make one small concession regarding the terms of her parole.

Ruby's plea deal said that she would testify against Jodi, and we would not go to the parole board arguing that she stay in prison.

So you wouldn't put the finger on the scale for her to stay in prison more?

Yeah.

All rise.

I was led to believe that this world was an evil place filled with church leaders who lie and lust, husbands who refuse to protect, and children who need abused. I stand before you today ready to take To my babies, my 6 little chicks. They were a part of me.

I was the mama duck who was consistently routing you to safety.

I can see now, over the past 4 years, I was in a deep undercurrent that led us to danger.

Jodi's sentencing was When Jodi made a statement at the time of sentencing, she never once said she was taking responsibility for her conduct or that she did anything wrong.

Go ahead.

I sincerely love these children. I desire for them to heal physically and emotionally. My hope and prayer is that they will heal and move forward to a better life.

to have beautiful lives.

I am willing to submit to what the state feels would be an appropriate amount of time served to make restitution.

Compared to Ruby, who had accepted at some level responsibility, I think the judge was concerned that Jodi was not taking responsibility. Ms. Hildebrandt, this circumstance is tragic. It's largely, of course, of your making. Adults are supposed to protect children. Adults with specialized training in particular are supposed to protect children. In this case, you terrorized children, and the results have been tragic. The court finds that it is appropriate that you serve a prison sentence.

The Utah Board of Pardons and Parole will determine how long they'll end up spending in prison. And from what we know of the level of felony that both Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt pled guilty to, they can get anywhere from 4 years in prison to 30 years.

What does justice look like in this case?

To me, justice in this case looks like them not coming out of prison until the child victims are adult and grown enough that they can handle them being out.

For Jodi's niece, Jessie, the possibility their aunt could be released on parole before the 30-year maximum prison sentence seems like justice denied.

The sentencing is a joke, even if it is the law. It doesn't feel like a— like closure at all, because now every time there's a parole hearing, I have to be there. Those children have to relive that trauma. I believe that she is a very dangerous, dangerous person, that she cannot be trusted with anyone, children and adults alike. I think Jodi is exactly where she needs to be.

While Jodi's fate is beyond Jesse's control, that still hasn't stopped them from finding a way forward. You said that Jodi stripped you of your identity.

Yeah.

Clearly, you've regained your identity in some form or fashion. Who is Jesse Hildebrand today?

I'm a tattoo artist and a painter and a musician and want to experience all the things that the world has to offer. If I could wake up tomorrow and never think about her, I mean, that would just be the greatest day of my life.

The question is, what does tomorrow look like for the Francke children?

What we see in this story, people can be given too much power. People can start to believe that they deserve that power.

Go and face that officer.

Put your hands on top of your head, please.

In resolving this case, we wanted to make sure that both Jodi Hildebrandt and Ruby Francke would not be able to injure any other child.

I also hope that Ruby can be reformed and can come out and not be a bad influence on the kids. And then it should be 100% up to each of the victims individually whether they choose to have a relationship or not.

Through his attorney, Kevin Francke tells us, in hindsight, much like some of her other clients, it was Jodi who falsely convicted In January of 2024, Kevin Francke filed a restraining order to block the sale of Jodi Hildebrandt's house. In the filing, he's asking for restitution to pay for the ongoing psychological care of the kids. And what can you tell us about how R and E are doing now and what road lies ahead for them? Well, they're doing great.

Last time we saw them, it's a 180. E and R, they're— they look so much better. They've put on weight. They look healthy. They're happy. They're, you know, back to their hobbies.

We're told E and R have been placed together in foster care. As for their siblings, the middle teens, ABC News reached out to the Department of Child and Family Services. Citing privacy policies, they told us they can't share any information.

Kevin does want custody of the kids. He has made inroads. He wants a relationship with his 4 minor children.

R is a hero of a lot of people in our office, and it gives us such great examples of someone who is just resilient against the awful things R was extremely brave.

Not only did he save himself, but he saved E. And in E's own interview, she was grateful for R.

I see a little boy that saved himself even though everyone around him should have had his back.

Jesse Hildebrandt is 15 years ahead of R an E in the healing process and is able to gather strength after Jodi has been found guilty and is behind bars.

If you go, I'll be here.

Keep the light on for you, my dear. I hope that the shocking nature of this story doesn't blind people to the commonality It's easy to distance ourselves from something that seems so shocking and feel like it has nothing to do with you or your community.

Treat your kids like angels. Treat them like you'd treat yourself. Kids need our, our help, helping them become good human beings, people that will be good parents in the future.

We should note tonight that in Utah, the parole board actually determines the sentence while the inmate is serving time based on their behavior.

So both Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt could be eligible for parole. for parole as early as August 2027. That's our program for tonight. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Deborah Roberts.

And I'm David Muir.

From all of us here at 20/20 and ABC News, good night.

And you can find all new broadcast episodes of 20/20 Friday nights at 9:00 on ABC.

From the dope game to the rap game. A new series from the streets of Snowfall.

I can't not do this.

FX presents The Drop: A Snowfall Saga.

The rap game is the new gold rush. Hey, run that back!

You go down this road, you gonna get yourself killed.

Sit down! We got a real chance to do something.

FX's The Drop: A Snowfall Saga. New series, now streaming on Hulu.