Transcript of McStays Episode 5: The Best Friend New

Hi, this is Aashan Singh, here with another weekly episode of our latest true crime series from 2020 and ABC Audio, What Happened to the McStays? Remember, you can get new episodes weekly on Tuesdays if you follow What Happened to the McStays on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you're listening now. Or you can hear the entire series right now, ad-free, by subscribing to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today. Now, here's the next episode of What Happened to the Mixed Days? There is so much NFL on ESPN right now. Monday Night Football, plus pregame and postgame. NFL Live, NFL Primetime, everything you need to stay on top of every game, every week. Unbelievable. And now NFL Network is on the ESPN app.

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When the news came that, uh, you know, they had found Joseph's family, It was hard. It was hard to process that. It doesn't feel real. You know, you just kind of— that can't be them, you know? Like, I even called Joseph's phone or something like, no, this can't be happening. You've got to come back.

Kathy had known Joseph for a few years. She said she met him through her partner at the time.

I'm Chase Merritt's ex-girlfriend and mother of his 3 children.

Back when the McStays had gone missing, Kathy and Chase were still together. They had 1 teenager and 2 kids under 10 and were living in Rancho Cucamonga, a city on the outskirts of Los Angeles. Kathy says that Joseph would often drive their way to have dinner with Chase and talk about upcoming projects. She says she got to know Joseph well. After the McStays went missing, she said that Chase wanted to be there for Joseph's extended family. But after the bodies were found in the desert and the investigation into their murders began, Kathy says people in the McStays' inner circle began to look at Chase differently.

I feel like, you know, stories changed. Chase was a good guy, and then all of a sudden he was somebody that they would think murdered their, their son or their brother or their family.

Kathy says the idea just didn't make sense to her. Why would Chase kill someone who was giving him work?

Joseph and Chase were talking about plans for the future, like there was lucrative contracts coming. Why would you put that in jeopardy It just doesn't make any sense.

But San Bernardino Sheriff's detectives had come to think otherwise. They now believed Chase Merritt did have a reason to kill Joseph McStay. For them, it came down to what investigators believed happened on February 4th, 2010, when they said a dangerous confrontation had led to irreversible decisions. But who is Chase Merritt, the man that detectives now felt was capable of killing an entire family? From ABC Audio and 20/20, I'm Ashan Singh, and this is What Happened to the McStays?

Episode 5.

The best friend. Kathy and Chase met in the early 1990s, and according to Kathy, they were together off and on for around 20 years. They've been broken up for over a decade now, but Kathy still remembers Chase as being a good person, even if he's far from perfect.

Chase is a little arrogant. He's creative. He'll tell you he's athletic. Like, he'll boast about how athletic he is. But the first time, like, I saw him, like, be athletic was at a mountain bike race. And he hopped on the mountain bike and he was about to jump over this little curb and he hit it and face-planted. And he just jumps up and he's like, ooh, you know? He's just like a big dork. He's— he is funny. He's goofy. He has a good sense of humor. We laughed a lot.

Kathy said that the day they first saw each other, it was an instant attraction.

I actually met Chase at a country western bar. He was there playing pool. I was there to dance.

Kathy described Chase wearing a cowboy hat. And said that he was in shape. She said he looked like a big, tough cowboy who could take care of her.

I happened to be sitting near the dance floor by the pool tables when he, he hit me with his pool cue. And I kind of turned around like, hello? And he just had no clue. He just didn't even acknowledge me. So I was like, what an idiot. So I'm like, I turned back around. I was like, okay, whatever. By the end of the night, I was on the dance floor with somebody else, and Chase was standing at the dance floor, like, waiting, just standing there watching. And when I walked off, he's like, oh, we should go get something to eat, you know, let's talk. And I was like, uh, okay.

Not long after they started dating, Kathy said Chase took her to meet his family. They lived east of LA, just over the San Gabriel Mountains in the Mojave Desert. At 3,000 feet elevation, the high desert is dotted with sagebrush and juniper trees. Small towns are scattered across the landscape.

Chase grew up in Hesperia, California. At that time, like the '60s, early '70s, Uh, it was, you know, pretty much the middle of nowhere.

The next town over from Hesperia is Victorville, where the McStays' bodies were found just outside city limits. Kathy says that some of Chase's family still live in the desert, including a sister, Juanita, whom Kathy says he was especially close to. According to Kathy, Chase was from a big family. There were 8 brothers and sisters.

As Chase grew up, he was kind of the one that, you know, his family could lean on if they needed something. Like, he would be there. He's just that sibling that I feel like they all could rely on.

Over the years, Chase had some troubles with the law. Between 1977 and 2001, he had several convictions for burglary. Kathy says that when they started dating, Chase seemed focused on pursuing a career in welding. It was a skill his father had taught him. Early in their relationship, Chase set up a metal workshop in Kathy's garage.

He started making these metal art wall hangings. And when I saw them, I was like, wow, I mean, that's pretty cool.

Soon, she says, the couple started their own metalwork business. Chase was making one-of-a-kind waterfalls, and Kathy was helping with designs. But according to Kathy, Chase could be difficult to work with.

I would tell him which way I think it should be. I'm like, I think it'd be more marketable if you did this color or that stone or something. And he would just not listen to me and do it his own way.

Kathy said there was another reason that she and Chase would butt heads at work. Finances.

Oh gosh. Chase was terrible with money.

Kathy says Chase was a wants what he wants when he wants it kind of guy.

We had a boat. We had a couple of boats for a while. We had jet skis. Like, we had things we didn't need.

Around 2006, Chase met and started working with Joseph McStay. Chase told San Bernardino detectives that Joseph was looking for a welder to build a fountain for him. Someone recommended Chase. He said that soon he was the only person that Joseph would turn to for custom work. Kathy says where Chase's stubborn streak had bothered her, Joseph was easygoing enough for both of them. He was likable and good with people.

This just seemed to fit. Like, Joseph was really smart. He was great with customers. And, you know, they had— they had a great collaboration.

Soon, Kathy says, Chase and Joseph's business relationship blossomed into a personal one.

Joseph was his best friend. I mean, he didn't have a whole lot of close contacts. I mean, we, we didn't have a large friend group. We didn't go out, you know, and do things. We didn't hang out with people necessarily. So the fact that he spent time outside of work with Joseph was kind of a big deal because he didn't really do that with many people.

Investigators learned that by early 2010, Chase and Joseph had been working together for a few years, and the company had a couple of big contracts coming up. On February 4th, Chase said he had a meeting with Joseph at Chick-fil-A. Kathy says that afterwards, Chase spent the evening at their home. Looking back, there was a detail about that night at home with Chase that bothered Kathy, a phone call she says Chase received.

I happened to see, you know, the caller ID when it rang. And I told him, Joseph's calling, you know. And he's like, oh, I'll talk to him tomorrow, whatever. So, you know, the next day when he couldn't get a hold of Joseph and he told me that, and then the day after, like, I was concerned. I know he was trying to keep it cool, like he didn't want to— I was just trying to keep it together. you know, overstep the boundaries. But I was getting concerned, and I told him, I told Chase, uh, what if, you know, what if that was Joseph's last call to you? Like, what, what if he needed your help and you didn't answer the phone? Like, it started weighing heavy on me then. Like, if you can't get a hold of him, that's unusual, and we should do something. You know, you should call the police. you should— and that's when he, like, reached out to the family.

The rest of the story we've heard before. Chase spoke with Joseph's brother on the 9th of February and said that he hadn't heard from Joseph for a few days. Kathy was interviewed by San Bernardino detectives in October 2014, and they asked her about the night of February 4th. The investigators asked her if she might have been mistaken about the date of the call she said she saw from Joseph. She admitted to detectives that she could have been, but she insisted both to San Bernardino detectives and to ABC News that Chase had been at home with her on the evening of February 4th. By the time they would call Chase Merritt in for his interview, detectives had come to believe that Chase wasn't at home with Kathy that evening, and they set out to prove it.

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When Chase Merritt sat down with the San Bernardino detectives in October 2014, they had been building a picture of what they thought had happened on that night of February 4th. 4 years before.

What happened that night? Where did you go? I think I already know the answer. What I'm asking for you to fill in the blank and explain to me what happened. I don't— I don't recall being anywhere except for probably home.

San Bernardino detectives asked Chase Merritt to describe his meeting with Joseph earlier that day. And according to Detective Smith, Chase implied that it was not a big deal.

So the way Chase painted that meeting on February 4th is that it was a great kind of successful meeting, that things are going great. We have these projects, we're moving forward, and everything is good. What caught our attention about that is the fact that when you look at the financials and some of the emails going back and forth, they weren't good.

Investigators thought that Joseph had met with Chase to confront him.

We believed that Joseph and Chase met that morning at Chick-fil-A. There was an interaction between them, and that that meeting resulted in Chase being let go of the business.

Detectives thought that Chase got fired that day, and the reason They felt that it all came down to money.

So when we looked into Chase's finances, we found that he was just horrible with his personal finances. He had a gambling issue where he would go to casinos and spend a lot of money.

Investigators believed Chase owed money to Joseph from previous projects they'd worked on together. And according to their case report, They alleged he'd also been forging checks from him. It was an email sent from Joseph to Chase a few days before their Chick-fil-A meeting. Chase had shared it with San Diego detectives back in 2010. This email had several rows of figures, big ones, tens of thousands of dollars, which Chase had told detectives were related to projects he and Joseph were working on together. He said the figures were a running tab of finances between the 2 men. But when San Bernardino investigators read this email, it looked to them like a tally of debt that Joseph said Chase owed him to the tune of $42,000. And investigators believed that Chase had been writing checks to himself from the business account that Joseph used. Several times in the days leading up to their meeting. They also came to believe that Joseph had noticed Chase moving money around.

Even as Joseph is driving up to meet Chase, he's on the phone with Union Bank. Now, we don't know what the context of those calls were, but we know he was checking. He called at least twice Union Bank as he's driving up to meet Chase.

When detectives interviewed Chase in late October of 2014, they told him what they believed.

You guys go up to Chick-fil-A, and that's what this meeting is about. He's upset you've been stealing from him, okay? You're a gambler. You spent all your money gambling, and you're not getting the work done that you need to get done. You were, you were stealing money from Joseph for a long time, and he let it, he let it go.

No, no, Chase told detectives. Chase was adamant that he and Joseph were on good terms and that his gambling wasn't an issue. He told detectives that he wasn't stealing from Joseph, that he wasn't fired by him. He continued to insist that the meeting at the Chick-fil-A wasn't anything out of the ordinary. But investigators suspected that the working relationship between the 2 men had deteriorated to the point where Joseph was ready to sever their partnership. And police believed there had been some kind of argument between them. Investigators thought that after the Chick-fil-A meeting, Chase had something dangerous, a motive. According to phone records, after the 2 men met that day, Joseph's phone began to move, pinging off a series of cell towers near the highway. Investigators believe that Joseph was going south, back to his home in Fallbrook, and that he arrived there just after 4 PM. Joseph's phone made one more call that went through to Chase's at 5:48 PM. The call lasted about 3 minutes, and then, according to the police report, it appeared that Chase's phone shut off for 3 and a half hours. According to authorities, during this window, several calls came into Chase's phone, but it made no contact with any cell towers.

Detectives thought it was consistent with the phone being turned off. Authorities suspected that Chase's phone was purposefully turned off or put in airplane mode. Detectives had theorized about what they believed had happened in this 3.5-hour period. How and when the McStays had died. Investigators believed that Chase followed Joseph McStay back to Fallbrook.

I believe it was a continuation of that contentious meeting in the beginning. So they're down there, they're at Fallbrook, an argument occurs, it turns physical, where Joseph and Chase get into an altercation. Joseph and Chase are either fighting or Chase murders him right there. And then at that point, Chase is committed and follows through with the rest of the family.

Detectives believe that Chase killed Joseph, Summer, Gianni, and Joey Jr. According to the investigator's report, detectives spoke to a friend of the McStays who'd been helping them redecorate their house. The friend told him that he'd been using a sledgehammer to close paint cans in the McStays' home days before they disappeared. San Bernardino detectives noticed that the hammer was missing from crime scene photographs, and a paint-splattered sledgehammer had later been found in one of the graves. Investigators believed that Chase had used it to murder the McStays in their own home. Investigators said that after killing the family, Chase logged onto the McStays' home computer and created a $4,000 check made out to himself. Although that check, they said, was never printed, it looked to them like further evidence of Chase being inside the Fallbrook house. Chase told San Bernardino detectives that he and Joseph hadn't argued that day. That he hadn't gone to the McStays' house that evening, and that he hadn't killed them.

So, do you want to clear it or not? I did not drive to Fallbrook on the 4th. You did drive to Fallbrook on the 4th. You were down there in Fallbrook on the 4th. What you're saying, obviously, is not going to change. What I'm saying definitely is not going to change.

While detectives did not have physical evidence tying Chase to the murders, or the alleged crime scene at the McStays' home, they believed they could place him close to where the bodies were buried in the desert. And to investigate that, they spoke to someone who knew him well.

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When Chase Merritt was interviewed by San Bernardino detectives in late October 2014, He denied killing the McStays, and he denied burying them in the desert on February 6th.

Why would people put you up in the high desert on February 6th? No idea. I don't even know. The only reason I'd ever go to the high desert is, um, for my brother, my sister.

Detectives claimed that they knew from from his cell records, his phone had pinged off a tower in the desert, and they alleged that this particular tower was in an area near the McStays' graves. San Bernardino Detective Ryan Smith was aware of Chase's family in the desert. In fact, 9 days before Chase Merritt was interviewed, Smith had gone to speak to Chase's sister, Juanita. Juanita lived a few miles from where the bodies were buried, near the base of Quartzsite Mountain. On top of the mountain was the cell tower that police said Chase's phone pinged off on February 6th, 2010.

So the interesting thing about the Quartzsite Tower is it's right on that mountain. On the backside, or the west side of that mountain, is Juanita Merritt's residence. On the north side or northeast side is kind of the desert and the 15 freeway where the McStays' bodies are buried.

To determine if Chase's phone had pinged off that cell tower because he was visiting his sister, Detective Ryan Smith went to investigate. He drove up to visit Juanita. By then, it had been over 4 and a half years since the McStays went missing. Smith met Juanita at her home. They sat outside and talked.

We just kind of asked what, what their relationship was like. And then we went into, what is her relationship with Chase? Does Chase come to visit? When was the last time he came to visit?

Smith, who'd recorded their conversation, asked Juanita if she'd seen Chase up in the desert around February 2010. Juanita said, no.

Chase, at that time, when he was with Joe, never came up here.

That's what I was gonna ask. Can you remember at all?

He didn't even hardly visit. I can remember one time he visited.

About how long before—

so, I mean—

In 5 years, I hadn't seen him.

So that's considerable.

He didn't come up to the desert because he works 24/7.

Smith asked Juanita if she and Chase had talked about the McStays.

Did you guys ever have that conversation? Ask, ask him what he thinks happened?

I asked him point blank. He had no clue. He was devastated. He lost everything.

Juanita told police that Chase hadn't visited her around the time of the McStays' disappearance. So a little over a week later, When he offered that as his only possible explanation for why his phone had pinged in the desert, the detectives were skeptical. In fact, 5 hours into their interview, Chase had been unable to give the detectives any new explanations that might have eased their suspicions about him.

There was no explanation as to, you know, why he was there. We believed we had enough to prove that he was the only person Who had the means, the motive, and the opportunity to commit this crime.

What do you think should happen to the person that killed the McStay family? I think they should get killed just exactly the same way they got killed. What do you mean? I think they should get killed. I think, I think they They should be executed somehow, you know, electrocuted, however they want. They should get killed because nobody that kills 2 little kids should be alive. That's my opinion. Does that trouble you? Of course it does. Anyone with a heart, that would tear on their heart, right?

Of course.

That's crazy. They were little boys.

By this point, the detective sitting across from him felt confident it was Chase who killed this family. Chase left the interview room a free man, but he wouldn't stay that way for long. About 2 weeks later, he got some visitors at his place of work. The police. They'd come to arrest him for the murders of the McStay family. Now police finally felt they had an answer to the question of what happened to the McStays.

Good morning.

We'd like to get started. Is everyone ready? 2 days after Chase's arrest, the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department called a press conference. Charles Chase Merritt was identified as the suspect responsible for the death of Joseph, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph McStay. There's no information to suggest there were any other suspects involved in this crime. Merritt was arrested on Wednesday, November 5th, without incident, transported and booked at our West Valley Detention Center where he is currently being held. Susan Blake, Joseph McStay's mother, was in the briefing room that day. She stood to say a few words to the gathered press. Small and blonde, she was a head shorter than the sheriff's deputies behind her.

Good morning.

My son and his family was a beautiful family that did not deserve this. Joey was so generous. Generous and kind to so many people. I always kept hope we'd find him, and then I received the phone call. And now there's a little more to our journey. I need justice from the law and the courts and get to talk to the judge, and most of all, justice upstairs for my lovely family. Thank you.

For the family that had waited so long, the wheels of justice could now finally turn. The San Bernardino District Attorney told the press that Chase Merritt was facing 4 murder charges and that the brutality of the case hadn't gone unnoticed by prosecutors. I don't need to tell you that this is a cold, ...and callous murder of an entire family.

We filed the special circumstance of multiple murders, what makes him eligible for the death penalty.

Chase Merritt, who had said he hoped for the death penalty for whoever killed the McStay family, would now face a courtroom and the prospect of capital punishment himself.

Everyone's made him out to be this monster that he's not.

But Kathy Jarvis, Chase's ex, says he was being made into a scapegoat.

Somebody murdered this family, but it wasn't Chase.

Chase Merritt maintained his innocence, and soon he would have to fight for his life. What Happened to the Mixed Days is a production of ABC Audio in 2020, hosted by me, Ashan Singh, produced by Madeline Wood, Vika Aronson, Audrey Mostek, and Kiara Powell, with help from Sabrina Fang and Camille Peterson, edited by Gianna Palmer. Our super Supervising producer is Suzie Lu. Music by Evan Viola. Scoring by Kiara Powell. Mixing by Evan Viola and Bob Mallory. Special thanks to Katie Dendas, Janice Johnson, Chris Donovan, Joseph Rhee, Sunny Antrim, Alyssa Stoller, Xander Samaras, Tom Berman, Indra Dallisakham, and Blue Browning. Josh Cohen is our director of podcast programming. Eamon McNath is our executive producer. Can't wait for more? Listen to the next episode ahead of everyone else, ad-free. Subscribe now to 20/20 True Crime+ on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today.

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