Transcript of McStays, Bonus: The Call

Hi, this is Ashan Singh, here with the final episode of What Happened to the McStays? Remember, you can catch up on the entire series for free if you follow What Happened to the McStays on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you're listening now. Or listen to this entire series ad-free and discover so much more from 2020 by subscribing to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today. Now, here's the final episode of What Happened to the McStays?

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Hey, I'm Brad Mielke, host of ABC's daily news podcast, Start Here. And if you just finished listening to the captivating story of what happened to the McStays, I think you're gonna really enjoy this special bonus episode. Because today, I'm here with the host who led us on this journey, Auschan Singh. And today, we're gonna dive deeper into the story. We've got some interview material you have not yet heard in this podcast, including— I'm so excited.

I can hear you right now, yes.

An ABC exclusive interview with Chase Merritt from prison. We're gonna get into what we learned from that interview. But first, let's welcome our guest here, our host rather, Aashan Singh. Aashan, you've been with ABC for like 10 years. In that time, you've done lots of reporting, especially for Nightline. This was your first time hosting a podcast though, right? So what's that been like?

Yeah, Brad, thanks so much for having me and sitting down with me to chat about this. This project has just been unbelievable. I've had a a few opportunities to kind of delve down the true crime path with Impact by Nightline. I've done some stuff on some kind of current cases, right? The Delphi murders, the Gilgo Beach murders, and obviously the longstanding cold case of who killed Tupac Shakur.

Mm-hmm.

But I think what made this one so fascinating for me is that this was a case that had lived on the minds and hearts of so many people back in 2010. And then for years, nobody actually knew what happened. And so, for our team to be able to dig through this archival material that ABC had been collecting over the years and get a clearer picture of this case that almost feels like it couldn't happen in the year 2026. And then to get to sit down and work with our ABC Audio team in a podcast, it really leaves no stone left uncovered. You really get to dive into the nitty-gritty of the story.

Well, and this story about the McStay family, like you said, it's so fascinating, it's so heartbreaking. As you start, like, turning those stones, I guess, what really stuck out to you? What grabbed your attention as you started examining this?

Yeah, Brad. So 2010 doesn't actually feel like that far back, right? But in reality, there are advances in technology that investigators now have at their disposal that they really didn't have back then. And so—

Right.

How much technology has advanced since the first investigation, even though it really wasn't that long ago, it's almost like a crime of days past, but happening in the modern era. So now smartphones have apps that show whereabouts as opposed to only having a cell tower that was pinging back in 2010. And there are cameras everywhere. But San Diego investigators, they were looking at footage from one neighbor's security camera, and at one point, this grainy footage that was taken from the border—

And you mentioned like the grainy surveillance vid— like even the idea that you'd have to look that closely to tell like which side of a car the exhaust pipe is on, like all of that seems so far away and yet, and yet so close.

Sign of the times, right?

No, literally, exactly like you said, like somebody's Ring doorbell cam probably gets you better footage at this point, but that's just not what they were dealing with.

Exactly. So now it's really interesting to me that, that, that there are 2 different investigations going on here. First, you have the San Diego police trying to figure out exactly what happened to the McStays. It was this missing persons case, and there wasn't this discovery of graves. So police did not have this explicit knowledge of foul play like they did in the, in the second investigation.

Right.

So the nature of the way they even went about this investigation was totally different. And then you have this murder investigation, and they're kind of coming at it from a completely different angle. They have these remains, they know someone killed them, but they need to find out who. So the cases are like these 2 investigations that are happening in 2 different time frames, that almost tell 2 completely different stories. And so, it was interesting to see how the custody of the case changed hands from San Diego to San Bernardino and the sort of different approaches that were employed here.

So, now that you wrapped this though, I guess, how does the story sit with you? Like, what feelings remain as the whole series came to a close?

You know, Brad, what I love the most about this story is obviously there was a conviction. Obviously, Chase Merritt is in jail as we speak, but There are a lot of little elements of how this investigation unfolded and a lot of open timeframe that leaves you scratching your head. I would love to know more about the days leading up to the McStays' disappearance, particularly what was going on with Joseph. Joseph and Chase had this meeting at Chick-fil-A on February 4th.

Chase, his business associate at the time.

And we have no idea what the tone of that meeting was, but I mean, as far as we know, that is sort of where everything unfolds, or as far as we assume, that is sort of where everything unfolds. Did Joseph really ever sever his business partnership with Chase that day? Was he confronting him about checks like law enforcement was alleging? And so it's the unknowns of this case that really do stick out to me. But law enforcement and prosecutors thought the totality of the evidence could only point to Chase, and they presented this to a jury, and Chase was found guilty of these murders.

Yeah, we heard family members say it was a relief to finally know what happened. And you think, like, you must have been just waiting for answers for so many years. But then you ultimately learn that Joseph, Summer, and the 2 boys, Gianni and Joey Jr., were truly gone. One thing that stood out to me while listening to the series was just how many incredible interviews ABC had with people really close to the case, kind of from all sides of the story. So when we come back, we're gonna hear more from these interviews, and you won't want to miss this tape from an ABC exclusive with Chase Merritt in prison. We're back in a bit.

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All right, and we are back with our series host, Ashan Singh. And Ashan, you just told us a little bit about how it felt getting to know this story. And I think it's important in all of our true crime podcasts to give listeners the chance to learn about the people at the center of it, right? The McStays. So, you and the team were kind of able to reveal their story through the people that knew them well, the friends, but also through law enforcement investigating the case. Uh, you guys got the trial lawyers from both sides.

Yeah, exactly, Brad. A wide circle of people sat down for interviews with 20/20 through the years. It was important to learn about the McStays through these people who cared for them, like you had said. And they have a lot of friends who wanted to make clear to ABC that this was this loving, kind family that deserves to be remembered outside of this tragedy. Those loved ones worked hard for years to not only get answers, but justice. And then you mentioned law enforcement. And I think just having an insight into this investigation that could really help kind of put the strings on the corkboard as to how investigators were able to come to the conclusions that they did, especially when there, there was no crime scene, Brad.

But wait, let me just zero in on what you said about the loved ones not just caring for years and years, not just following it. Because one detail I found interesting was it was not just the police searching for clues, it was some of these loved ones as well.

Yeah. So Joseph's friend and colleague in the waterfall industry, Gina Watson, said she actually connected with Joseph's dad, Patrick, when the family was first reported missing and Both were scouring through Joseph's online records for information. In her interview with ABC, Gina said she got really into sleuthing. She also got really close with Patrick as they searched for clues. Now, Brad, keep in mind, our series covers the events of the story and the investigation, but in between these events, there's also so many months, years I'm talking about, of worrying, looking for leads, poring and reporing over documents, hoping that the family of 4 actually just turns up. And so you could get a sense of how that time was for the loved ones in some of these interviews.

Yeah.

And we hear from Gina Watson here.

I will say, yeah, I got a little obsessed. And then I ended up meeting Joseph's dad, Patrick McStay. And he was kind of in the same boat that I was, 'cause like obviously being the father, the grandfather of 4 missing people, he considered Summer like a daughter. He was, you can only imagine what kind of head place he was in. And he's older, he's exactly my dad's age. My dad's still in my life too, but Patrick felt like a second dad very quickly because, like I said, he would talk just like Joseph and talk for hours and tell me memories about Joseph.

Another interesting thing that Gina shared in her 2025 interview with ABC is she said she raised flags about Chase at one point.

One of the first people I thought about, sadly, was Chase Merritt. And I actually emailed the detective that ended up being in charge of the case in San Diego. And I guess I must have been suspicious enough to sketch out his addresses, his phone, his last known phone numbers and emails. You need to talk to this guy. You have to talk to Chase Merritt. I'm sure you've heard of him, but just in case. And I didn't know at the time, like, am I being helpful or am I just being annoying?

Yeah, I just can't imagine the mix of emotions that come with years of searching. You'll do anything for answers, but then slowly you have these new leads dry up. You still don't know what happened. We know many people close to the McStays were interviewed before Chase was even arrested. And at trial, Chase's defense team actually pointed fingers back at one of those people, Dan Cavanaugh. They alleged— the defense alleged that Dan was the person who killed the McStays, even though he had been cleared by police.

Well, so they checked his alibi, and he was in Hawaii at the time the McStays went missing. Prosecutors said at trial that there was no evidence to justify actually pointing the finger at Dan Kavanaugh.

But then he sits down and talks to ABC, right? I found that fascinating too. So what is Dan up to now, and what did he have to say about this whole experience?

Man, I find Dan fascinating. So Dan spoke to ABC News last year, and at that point he's living in Hawaii. He's a wellness entrepreneur. And so he said he sold the waterfall business, Earth Inspired Products, about a year after the McStays had actually disappeared. He said he wanted to part ways with that part of his life. But he also says that the false accusations that were leveled by Chase's defense team, despite having always been cleared by law enforcement, Brad, like, that continued to impact him.

You know, it's just too much stress, 'cause now they're dragging your name through the dirt and mucking up your name. So that sucks. But, uh, there's a way to— there's a way to recover it, and there's hope, you know? You just have to double down on your strengths.

One thing that really stood out to me was episode 5, I think, was hearing from Kathy Jarvis. That's Chase Merritt's ex, with whom he has 3 children. children. She has maintained Chase didn't do it. She says Chase was with her the night officials think the McStays were killed. So it's really interesting to hear from her in, in yet another sit-down interview. But it also does make me wonder, Austin, about how Chase's conviction— you know, there's the victims of the murder, but convictions like this then affect the family of Chase Merritt, right? The family he leaves behind as well.

Yeah, for sure. And Kathy told us about some of the struggles that she said she experienced, both financial and otherwise, especially since Chase, Kathy said, was still helping the family financially when he could.

After Chase's arrest, money was tight. I mean, basically our son working kind of paid, paid for food for, for us.

She also said that she had to have some difficult conversations with her son.

It was really hard telling him, you can't, you can't talk to people about that. You can't. There's— people are gonna make assumptions, you know? So don't talk about your dad. Don't let people know. It wasn't anything that I talked about with my friends either. I kind of stopped trusting people so much that— And I tried to deal with all of this by myself.

Again, just really incredible sort of access to all the characters that you've sort of led us through. And of course, then there's also Chase, right? So, he will likely be in prison for the rest of his life. He was found guilty of brutally murdering this family, Joseph, Summer, Joey Jr., and Gianni McStay. And despite that unanimous guilty verdict, though, Chase has continued to maintain his innocence. And after the break, We're gonna hear what he has to say from behind bars.

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Now, Aisling, the series ends with Chase Merritt's trial, where he was ultimately found guilty of 4 murder charges. He was sentenced to death, although we should say there is a moratorium on executions in California, so it really means life in prison if that moratorium stays in place. But the trial kind of became a whole story within itself, right? It basically took an episode to tell.

Right. It was a long trial, Brad. And this is a story that captivated the nation, particularly Californians, from the very beginning. So the trial was a huge story in the media already. And so 5 months long in total. And Prosecutor Britt Iams said it was exhausting, not just because of the length, but how contentious it was. At times. And not only was this trial long, Brad, but the road leading up to the trial was actually long too. So Chase was arrested in 2014, but the trial doesn't start until January 2019. So there were years of pretrial motions and hearings, and there was local coverage during the pretrial events. And also notably, Chase went through cycles of firing his defense attorneys, deciding he wanted to represent himself, even tried to fire his trial defense attorney, Raj Moline, during a hearing for his new trial request.

Well, and speaking of new trial requests, by the way, because Chase still maintains his innocence, so he has, like you said, requested a new trial, but that hasn't happened so far. Listeners heard in episode 6 that Chase mentions that he wants to file what's known as a habeas petition to try to prove his innocence. Austin, I just learned that we know this because last year, he spoke to ABC News on a call from prison. So, I've been waiting to hear about this all episode. What did he say from prison?

Yeah, he spoke to ABC late last year. Let's take a listen.

Joseph and I were very good friends. We were pretty close, and every once in a while, you know, I would go there and we'd have pizza with the kids and everything.

But now, Brad, as of recording this today, he still has not filed his habeas petition. But at the time, in his interview with 20/20, he did say he was working on a book.

So I'm working hard on my book. I'm trying— going to be getting the word out as to exactly what happened during the trial. So, um, I'm doing well with that. And, you know, um, my situation is what it is, and I, I have to deal with it day by day. And, you know, I can't let it get me down.

And overall, Brad, his stance on the case still hasn't changed.

But I didn't, didn't murder that family. I am innocent. And I will be out one day, and the truths about this case will be out.

Yeah, and like you said, no habeas petition has been filed. It's a story that captivated the nation for a decade. And, Austin, I gotta say, there's a lot of interest in the media and online. Like, so many people following this throughout.

You know, once you go through the case, you start to understand why. There are websites and discussion forums analyzing all the details of the story and discussing these personal theories. There's a documentary that followed the defense team during the trial. And there's a book, not including the one that Chase says he plans to write. So it's this really complex story with mystery and multiple investigations, and it all culminates in a huge trial. I know when we normally tell these stories, it's from the perspective of whodunit, but this literally starts out with a what happened, right? So the people who loved the McStays, they had to try and pick up these pieces while they're also trying their best to remember and honor their family.

I do think that's the thing, like, I picked up from you today is just how much people had to live in both realities. They could still be alive, they could be dead, and those are 2 different types of investigations. Ashan Singh, such a well-told story. Thank you so much for sitting with me and breaking it down with us.

Brad, it's always a pleasure, man. Thank you.

All right, and I'm Brad Mielke. You can catch me on Start Here every morning, wherever you're listening now. I'll see you later.

Can't wait for more? Listen to the next episode ahead of everyone else, ad-free. Subscribe now to 20/20 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today.

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