Transcript of Shelby Haas-Sapp: The Sales Psychology That Gets Buyers to Sell Themselves | Sales | YAPClassic

Sales isn't a chase, it's a dance. And when you chase somebody, they're gonna run away. I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales. You're gonna go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no. But you have to go into every single encounter thinking this is the person that's gonna buy from me.

And I got some stats. Female reps are 11% more likely to win deals than men. So talk to us about why women are so good at selling.

So this is what I've found is people believe 0% of the words that come out of a salesperson's mouth because duh, you're a sales rep, but they believe 100% of the words that come out of their own mouth. So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can't go back on later.

So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral?

There's like 2 buckets. One bucket is—

Yeah, fam, if you wanna stop sounding salesy and start closing more deals like somebody who knows they just belong in the room, you're gonna love this episode. Today we're bringing back my awesome conversation with Shelby Sapp, founder and CEO of She Sells Academy. Shelby has built a massive brand teaching women how to dominate high-ticket sales, and she's totally the it girl in business right now. And in this episode, she and I talk about why the best salespeople don't chase, beg, or overexplain. They bring the right energy, ask questions that make buyers sell themselves, and prevent objections before they ever happen. So without further ado, let's dive right into my amazing conversation with Shelby Sapp. Shelby, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited to talk to you today because I love sales. I feel like I'm a natural salesperson. Everything I do at my company right now, the main focus is sales. I've been selling since I was 10 years old, I would say.

Wow.

But Many people think that sales are scary. Mm-hmm. And Jeremy Miner came on my show. I know you talked to him recently. Mm-hmm. And he says that nobody is born a salesperson and you've gotta work at it. Mm-hmm. So that's my first question to you. What kind of person do you think is cut out for sales? Do you think everybody is cut out for sales?

Oh my gosh. You would never guess who's gonna be good at sales is what I've learned.

Mm-hmm.

And That's coming from my sales trainer background from different industries is I would put money on like this guy that would come out and do door-to-door, top of the football team, super extravagant, extroverted guy. I'm like, you're gonna do so good. He doesn't.

Mm-hmm. At all.

But then like the shy person that just studies, knows the scripts, works hard, doesn't sit down, that person completely outsells the other one. So you really just never know. But I think the main trait of like what makes somebody good is intrinsic motivation. And I think at the end of the day, no matter your personality type, shy, extroverted, outgoing, if you know that you are so motivated that nothing else is gonna stop you, Hmm. That's what's gonna make you good. 'Cause at the end of the day, you can teach anybody sales, right? But it's like the work ethic and when you're so down, Going for that extra call, rolling that extra objection. You can't really teach somebody that. So I always look for that in the girls that are in my academy and really try to instill the intrinsic motivation in them.

That's such a great point. And speaking of like mindset motivation, what kind of limiting beliefs do you feel like people usually have that's holding them back from actually being good at selling?

Ooh, I would say that people are scary. people are not scary at all. Um, especially I teach a lot of women. Um, the men, they're like so scared to sell these alpha males, and it's like those guys are more than often the teddy bears.

Mm-hmm.

And they kind of respect when you are a little bit pushy with them. Like, they're like, okay, like, I respect this girl, I respect the hustle. So just kind of knowing that other people aren't as scary as they And they have no idea what you're saying. Mm-hmm. So you can just have fun with it, bring back the human connection to sales rather than just like selling with a script.

So you're like blowing up on social media. You're doing really well on Instagram and TikTok. Mm-hmm. And I saw one of your videos and you were talking about how you need to be a sales psychopath.

Oh yes, you do.

Talk to me about that.

So I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales. Because a lot of people think, you know, sales is super cool, the shiny thing, you can make a lot of money. It's like, yes, but you don't get paid to show up. Mm-hmm. You get paid to go the extra mile. And sales is something to where it's a direct reflection of your work ethic. So if you really wanna make it worth it and to be that top 1% cream of the crop, you have to be a little bit of a psycho. Not only in your work ethic, But also in your ability to just know how to regulate your emotions throughout the day.

Mm-hmm.

Like for example, you're gonna go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no. But you have to go into every single encounter thinking, this is the sale, this is the person that's gonna buy from me.

Mm-hmm.

When maybe the last 10 people told you to fuck yourself, you know?

Mm-hmm.

So to me, that's so psychotic because that's not normal. That's not normal human behavior. You have to trick yourself into being this psychopathic mentality in order to really reap, in my opinion, the true benefits of sales. Mm-hmm. Because that really does come from the top of the top, the best of the best.

It's so true because like nobody really knows like what your track record is. Nobody knows how many sales you made before that day. The customer knows nothing about you. They don't know your rankings.

Exactly.

They don't know anything about you. So you can come there with good energy and, mm-hmm, you know, just have the confidence and know your stuff and they have no idea how well you've done in the past.

Exactly. And it sounds so simple, but it's really not because having that conviction in your voice and that sure tone and that confidence and that energy and the aura when you just got demolished by every single person before is so hard. But like you said, they really have no clue. So you almost have to like brainwash yourself into being like, this is the client that's gonna buy. And that one client that buys.

Mm-hmm.

that commission is gonna make up for all of the nos that you had that day.

Mm-hmm.

So all it takes is the one. You can't let the other people get to your one.

Yeah. I feel like before I get on any big sales calls, I literally am telling myself like, Hala, you're the number one person at this.

Yes.

You've crushed so-and-so. Like, I always like give myself like a little pep talk. Like, listen, you got this. You're the best expert at this. Yes. You know, when I don't come with that kind of energy, like if I'm having a bad day or just like tired or sick. I feel like it, it could totally go the other way.

100%. I always say your energy's your currency and being sad will literally make you poor no matter what you do. Especially in sales though. And that's not saying you can't be sad. We're all sad sometimes, but you do have to almost just fake it sometimes.

Yes.

And that's the psycho is I like, it doesn't matter. Sales does not matter what's going on in your life, what emotions you're going through. If you're having a bad day, if you're down, or if your boyfriend broke up with you.

Mm-hmm.

Like the client has no idea. They don't care.

Yeah.

So it's like, do you wanna make money or not? You can either turn it on or off.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Yeah. So I know that you spent a lot of your time focused on selling to women. Mm-hmm. And there's been a lot of recent reporting saying that women are better at selling than men. Mm-hmm. And you really built your whole brand around female sales reps. And I got some stats. Female reps are 11% more likely to win deals than men. So talk to us about why women are so good at selling.

So this is what I've found is one, women get a little bit underestimated when they hop onto a sales call. And this can be either a really good or a really bad thing because if you don't know how to run the call, if you don't know how to establish your authority, your credibility, your respect, then you're just gonna get walked all over.

Mm-hmm.

And then that's why some women think, oh, well I'm just, I'm just not good because they don't respect me. It's like you didn't demand the respect. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's kind of like the way it could go negatively if you don't know how to use your advantages to your advantage. But the best way is you get a little bit underestimated in the beginning. Mm-hmm. But then you kind of like take charge and put your foot down almost in the sale. That way they're like, oh, this girl knows her stuff. Yeah. Like, I respect that. So then it kind of almost becomes a positive.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and that's what I train my girls. on is how to use, like, yes, we're gonna have a little bit of a stereotype no matter who you're talking to. Older women might look down on you, younger women might look up to you, older men might be like, oh, she has no idea what she's talking about.

Hmm.

So using those different stereotypes as a way to actually be a plus side in sales. Also, um, men and the men that I've, I've trained a lot of men.

Mm-hmm.

Specifically more in door-to-door, they Have that credibility. Like as soon as they hop on a call, they have that authority, they have a little bit more respect. And so for them, it's more about building the softer side throughout the sales process. Mm-hmm. Versus girls, I teach them to do a little bit of the opposite. Mm-hmm. Because people already wanna open up to you, you know?

That makes sense. So it's like women already have natural empathy and the men, you actually teach them how to have better empathy so that they can be more like women in the sales process.

Exactly. Yeah. So it's kind of like a blend of The soft side, but also like maintaining that respect and credibility. Mm-hmm. Because that's what sales is, is it's perfectly teetering the line between let's get the deal done, this is what makes sense. Um, like the business side, the logical side of your brain. But then the other side of your brain is emotions.

Mm-hmm.

And I always tell my students that I teach, you can't sell with logic because then a buyer's gonna make a logical decision. They're gonna take your logical pitch and they're gonna make a logical decision, which is, this sounds great, send it over.

Mm-hmm.

And we'll talk about it later. That's the logical thing to do, right? Is not to spend thousands of dollars on a 30-minute call.

Yeah.

But what creates that buying atmosphere is using the logical side, but also pulling that emotion.

Mm-hmm.

In order to create the buying atmosphere. So both sides. I love that. Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna get into the emotion part of it later with you, but first I wanna stick on this like, Hot girl concept, right?

Yes.

So like you call your salesgirls hot girls. You yourself, very beautiful, blonde, skinny.

Thank you.

Young, right? So do you think that looks has anything to do with your success in sales?

I think it would be stupid to say that a lot, like looks have nothing to do with it. Mm-hmm. But I think that it can go, like I said, a good way or a negative way. I think you can be taken not as seriously if you're a pretty girl and you don't know your stuff. People just assume like, oh, she's just another pretty face. Like, I'm not gonna trust her with my business. Because what I've found, especially with a lot of the girls that I would train, oh my gosh, back in my door-to-door days, I would recruit all of my best friends from my sororities, all pretty girls. Some of them did terrible. And it's because like pretty girls haven't had a lot of rejection before.

Mm-hmm.

So it's like people would waste their time. And if you don't know how to do it right, It's kind of a negative. So the looks things, I think everybody has advantages and disadvantages. You just have to know what to use. But the hot girl, the hot girl sales thing that I always talk about. Yeah. So that specifically has nothing to do with looks. So the hot girl mentality that I always talk about in my content is, has nothing to do with looks. It also has nothing to do with being a girl. There's so many guys that I'm like, you are a hot girl. So what it is, What it is is this, I tell people that I want them to imagine like the hottest girl they know walks into a room.

Mm-hmm.

How does she walk in? Is she hunched over looking at her phone? Kind of like, oh my gosh, who should I talk to? Should I go stand in the corner? Or is she the girl that walks in, her energy is just so infectious and other people are like, oh, I wanna figure out what she's about. I wanna go ask her questions.

Mm-hmm.

So it's more about the aura and the energy that you have that you carry into every single conversation.

Mm-hmm. That makes a lot of sense. So like I mentioned before, you're young, you're 23.

Mm-hmm.

Do you ever get people telling you like, you know, what do you know? You're 23 years old. Why are you teaching sales?

All the time. And it's so funny because I, I like to say I've lived 30 years in the last probably 4 years. Um, so I feel like I'm like 60 years old, but, um, I do get that. And what I like to say is, I don't have kids. I don't have like, this is my thing. This is every single piece of my energy goes into this.

Yeah.

And I also bring a different layer of, I know what works. Sales training and sales changes every single day, especially with online, how people perceive things. A lot of the sales techniques that a lot of the older sales trainers use, when I was like a sales rep, I would listen to that, try it. I get the door slammed in my face. So it's like there's a lot of little things that you just have to know, like realistically, would that work or not? And I think that's kind of where a lot of my content, people see it and they're like, oh, that would actually work. Yeah.

And you know what? You have a track record. You've done great in sales. And here's the thing, you're a good teacher, right? Mm-hmm. So when I hear feedback about, you know, or if I've seen stuff when people are like kind of hating on you, I'm like, she's saying, I, I'm a salesperson. She's talking the right stuff. Yeah. And she's doing good job teaching.

They're never in sales. Yeah. And like, she's, she's able to teach.

able to teach it. And I think that's really the difference, right? So thank you. Kudos to you. I'm really proud of everything that you've done and I think you're awesome.

Thank you.

I remember I was talking to somebody and I couldn't for the life of me remember who the person was. So if you guys are tuning in and you remember this conversation on the podcast, let me know. But I remember I was telling a story on this podcast and I was talking to somebody super credible and I was telling them how when I worked at Disney in corporate, I looked much younger than I am. Mm-hmm. And so everybody used to think I was like, 10 years younger than I was, and I was treated like an intern even though I had all this experience. Right. And I ended up leaving corporate to be an entrepreneur. One of the reasons why is because I was, looked too young to be taken seriously. And the guy told me that in business, the age you wanna look like is 35.

I agree.

Whether you're older or younger. And to me, like, I always like remember that and I was like, okay, I just need to look like 30, 35 forever.

You know, that is so funny because I always tell my friends, I'm like, I feel like girls want to look younger. I, I make myself try to look older, you know? Like, I put my hair up, glasses on, red nails. Like, I'm trying to make myself look a little bit more older because you're so right. I feel like that's like the perfect age for respect, but also still being like somebody that people really are like, oh my gosh, like, I really want to talk to.

Exactly. You've got experience, but you're still young enough to be like hungry and tech savvy. Mm-hmm. And so like 35 is the age that you wanna emulate. And I like never forgot that. So when it comes to sales, I personally feel like my femininity, wearing makeup, dressing nice, grooming.

Oh yeah.

Helps me close deals. When I was saying before, like if I'm ever like sick, tired, or like don't have time to do my makeup or hair and I get on a sales call, I'm like 50% chance this is not gonna close.

Why? Because like I don't feel my best, I don't look my best.

Maybe the lighting is bad. I'm like in a hotel or something. And so I wanted to get your thoughts on that, like grooming men and women.

Yes.

What do you think matters?

100%. So the majority of the sales that I teach are like face-to-face. So like you can see the other person.

Mm-hmm.

And I straight up tell, well, I told my girls or my guys when I was doing door-to-door, and I tell my girls now, you need to look good. Like looks do matter in a sales process. They make people want to talk to you. to hear you out a little bit more, but also like yourself. When you look and feel your best self, you're gonna be more open with people. You're gonna have just a better energy. And that kind of comes back to the hot girl mentality.

Mm-hmm.

Of I am that girl, and when I show up, I'm gonna look my best, I'm gonna feel my best, and I'm gonna act my best.

Cody Sanchez been on the show a couple times, and she told me that women who wear makeup make 30% more on average. Men who have better grooming make 15% more. So it, it's worth it. It's not about your looks. It's not about like how actually like symmetrical your face is. It's really about the grooming. A good haircut, nice clothes, white teeth. Mm-hmm. Like all that kind of stuff really matters. So let's get into some more tactical stuff. I wanna stick on the gender topic a bit. Talk to me about how a woman should sell to a man versus a man sell to a woman, and I'll give you some other scenarios. Mm-hmm.

I love that. I guess the biggest difference is a woman really needs to establish frame super early on or else she'll lose it. And so what that basically means is you need to establish your credibility as somebody that knows her stuff, knows exactly why they're on the call, isn't getting on the call and saying, oh, where are you based out of? Oh my gosh, I love your outfit. Oh, where's it from? It's like, no, just get to the actual point of the call first.

Mm-hmm.

Or else the rapport can actually have a negative effect on you. So I, I like to teach my girls to really establish that credibility early on into the pitch. And then you open up the rapport for the question-based selling. Mm-hmm. And for women, this is the biggest part to let the other person talk. Mm-hmm. A little bit more.

Mm-hmm.

So asking really good questions in order to get somebody to open up, and then also being super simple when it comes to closing. A lot of women try to talk a lot when it comes to the clothes and almost like justify why the prices are there when somebody didn't even ask. Mm-hmm. You know, they could have been able to 100% afford it and they're like, yo, so this is the price. You know, it's because there's a lot that goes into it and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, this is the price. Shut up.

Yeah.

I always say, kiss 'em. Keep it simple, stupid. Just shut up. Um, So that, that's more for the women is really leading with that respect, getting them to open up to you, and then ending with the respect. It's like a little sandwich.

Okay.

For the men, I like to have men be a little bit more warm in the beginning and then leading with the credibility and then a little bit more warm at the end. So it's almost a flip-flop.

Okay.

Just because I think, especially if they're selling to another woman, if there's a man on the other side of the screen, they're almost like, Oh, sales rep. So they have the stigma of like, oh, this is just another sales bro, sales guy. So when they kind of drop that boundary and they're a little bit more human in the beginning, it's a plus size or a plus side for the men.

And how about a woman selling to a woman?

Okay, so woman selling to a woman, a lot of the girls that I trained in the beginning, they're like, oh girl, like they try to go the bestie route to soon and it comes off a little fake. And women buyers have such good intuition. So it's really good to connect, but making sure that it's not a fake connection.

Mm-hmm.

So I always like to lead with like the business first. And then if I genuinely like love her shirt or I genuinely love the way she carries herself or talks, I'm gonna say that. But I'm not just gonna try to be all bestie bestie with her when it comes off fake. Mm-hmm. Because they can sniff that. And as soon as that happens, it's completely, completely done.

Okay. How about selling to an alpha male versus a beta male?

I love this one. Um, so selling to an alpha male, you have to make him think that it's his decision. You can never tell him like, okay, yeah, this is your problem. This is the solution. Like, this is how much it's gonna be. Let's go. He's gonna be like, no, I think that it should be done this way. Or in the back of his head, he's gonna be like, well, we've tried that before, or I didn't. I need to look at this competitor first. It's his decision.

Mm-hmm.

So I always like to say things kind of like, okay, well, I mean, you're the one that's been dealing with this for so long. Like, why do you think this is happening? Or, I mean, I'm sure you guys have tried so many things. I mean, you've been in business for quite some time. Like, what else have you guys tried? And like, why didn't that work out? And they, this is the point where they yap, yap, yap, and they're like, oh my gosh, well, Stacy tried to do this and that didn't work, and then we tried this and blah, blah, blah. And then it's perfect. You're giving me so much ammo that I'm gonna use later on when I'm more of just the helper and the problem solver. Mm-hmm. Rather than a sales rep at the end. So the alpha males, yeah, you have to like put them up on a pedestal and make them feel all good about themselves in order to really let them be super comfortable buying from you. Beta males, also some of my favorite sales ever. I have a lot of vivid memories selling beta males. Very funny. Um, I, I remember this one time, this was maybe my first year doing door-to-door sales.

I remember sitting down on a curb at a grown man's house for him with 45 minutes going over everything, every question. He just can't make a decision.

Mm-hmm.

And I just told him, I'm like, okay, Ben, like, it's 8:30. What's your last name? And he was like, let's just say Blanco. He's like, Blanco, but why? And I'm like, we're signing you up. That's it. We've been talking for way too long. I'm going home. Like, we're just signing you up. You need it. And he was like, okay, if you're gonna make me do it. I'm like, what? So Beta's not that extreme of a case, but They like when you outline a game plan. Mm-hmm. So they like when you listen to what they're saying, you really get that problem, and then you say, okay, a lot of people similar to that, what we've done with them is this, this, this, and this, and then they've gotten this and this result. So as soon as they know the game plan and the results that other people have, it makes it an easy yes for them cuz they're like, okay, I like being told what to do a little bit more.

That makes sense. And how can you tell if they're alpha or beta to begin with? Like right at the start of the call, like what's your signals?

Oh, so I feel like it is kind of an intuition thing, but a little bit more of alpha males, especially with a woman selling to them, will interrupt you a little bit. Mm-hmm. Or they'll kind of like dominate the conversation. So it's not like one specific cue or another. It's just like, okay, this guy needs to have his input in pretty much everything. Mm-hmm. Or they almost try to steer the call. Or just super loud.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I hate when people call me like little lady. I feel like that's like a big cue that I get sometimes. Um, and then beta males, they are a little bit more timid, a little bit like they let you completely steer the call. Mm-hmm. And with that person, I'm gonna maintain that control, outline that control, and then they're gonna follow that control the whole way through.

Mm-hmm. Is it the same thing with selling to women? Can there be alpha women and beta women? Is it just basically the same?

For sure.

That makes sense for sure.

Yeah. It's just the women on women dynamic. You have to make sure that you're being like genuine and relatable to this girl and not super like unrelatable or trying to be fake besties with her.

Do you feel like as a woman you should tone down your hair and makeup if you're gonna sell to a woman?

Yes. So I have, um, had a couple girls experiment with this and we had a little thread on it in my community. Yes. And I think that this makes you a little bit more relatable, but also like you want the client to feel like the superstar.

Yeah.

The whole time. You never wanna be the one that's like shiny wearing all these fancy jewelry. Like, no, nobody wants to buy from somebody that looks like that. So people wanna buy from somebody that like makes them feel good. It's the same thing with dating. I always relate a lot of sales stuff back to dating is like you could go on a date with a guy and you're like, oh my God, this guy is so cool. He's amazing. He's done all these things. That's so cool. Or you could go on a date with a guy and you walk away and you're like, he made me feel so cool. Mm-hmm. Like, he made me feel like the shining star. And what, what you're gonna do is you're probably gonna go on a date with the guy that made you feel amazing more than the other guy. So that's how I always like to treat that dynamic with my clients is I want you to feel like That girl.

That makes a lot of sense. And I feel like especially after you close them, like let's say you have some sort of an agency, you have to keep continuing to see that person. You really don't always wanna be like so dolled up so they're like, oh, here you are coming on the call again, like so dolled up.

Right.

And we're just having a business meeting, you know? So I try to be very casual in those situations. Okay. Last one, young versus old.

Okay. So young people, so you can either sell with pain or pleasure.

Mm-hmm.

And everybody knows selling with pain is way better just because people buy with pain more than they buy with pleasure. Mm-hmm. People, people sell painkillers a lot easier than they sell vitamins, basically.

Mm-hmm.

So you always wanna look for the pain and pleasure with every single person. So every single person's gonna be different. You might be on a call with a young person who has a lot of pain. You're gonna sell with that. But for the most part, generalization, young people are buying the dream. And older people are buying a pain point. Mm-hmm. So you're selling a little bit more with dream state questions with young people of like, okay, you have so much potential. Like, where do you wanna get to? I could see that for you versus older people. It's a lot of past stuff that you're bringing up, which is going to be more provoking questions, emotional pain. Um, and then I always like to say with old people, you need to let them Talk about their life, maybe their, um, deceased wife or their grandkids or like whatever's going on in their life, but make sure that they're not wasting your time and like bring them back into the sale periodically. That way you're not stuck there talking about little Jimmy's football game last Sunday and you're like, okay, like I'm here for a sales call, so like let's go.

Yeah.

You know, I feel like older people, Uh, and I'm talking about like 60 and up, you know, like, mm-hmm. They tend to ask a lot of questions and I feel like the sales process just takes longer.

It does.

They ask a lot of questions. They're, they're scared of salespeople and they don't, they're not as trustworthy and they seem to have a million questions. That's my experience.

A million questions. They like to know every single scenario and old people. Yes. That's also a lot of the beta people too. Mm-hmm. And a lot of women too. Women love to know. Uh, they, they buy comfort. So they like to know every single detail, exactly what happens when you purchase, all the next steps and everything. So if somebody needs a little bit more comfort, I always say you sit there with them and you give them the comfort. And those people will be your best customers because they ask every single question in the book. You know, Mm-hmm. They, they won't come to you later being like, oh, well, I didn't know this. I didn't know this. I didn't know this. You're gonna be like, You asked me every single question, you know, like we went over everything. So in my experience, they're actually some of my favorite customers cuz they know what they're buying.

Yeah, I totally agree. So Shelby, you started your sales career with door-to-door selling. Mm-hmm. And I honestly couldn't think of a better sales training to get thicker skin, get comfortable with rejection. So first off, tell us about your door-to-door selling experience.

Yeah.

And what kind of sales skills did you learn?

Everything under the sun. Oh my gosh. So I started doing door-to-door sales when I was 18 years old. I was working like all these different jobs in college, and I just remember thinking, I'm gonna be successful, I just don't know how. I was so scared of sales because that was the one like business internship that I haven't dabbled in. And so I remember talking to one of my mentors and he's like, yeah, I did door-to-door sales, great skill set, made a lot of money. And I'm like, okay, cool. So I'll I'll go out and try it. I went out there. First of all, I almost quit before I went out there. Thank God I didn't quit because I wouldn't be here. But, um, my first summer it was amazing. I was the only girl and I really kind of like what you were saying when you, what you felt at your corporate job. That's kind of what I felt is like, no matter how much I sold, no matter how top of the leaderboards I was every single week, there's just a level of like, Mm-hmm. Respect. Mm-hmm. That's hard to get when you work with either older people in a corporate setting or all guys, all sales bros.

But I loved it. I just loved being able to walk up to a door and somebody opened the door and they're like, oh my gosh, how do I get this girl off of my door? Mm-hmm. Um, I'm cooking dinner right now. Like I just put my kid to bed. That, and then you say the right words and kind of like disarm them, and then they're giving you their Amex like 10 minutes later. It's the most confident building activity you could possibly do. And that skillset carries over so well. It, it's, I always like to say door-to-door sales is like the number one sales skillset that you could possibly get. It's the hardest because you have to go out to a market, obviously be in person, a lot more rejection. There's a lot better opportunities than door-to-door, but like starting out, that skillset you'll learn is Insane. Yeah.

Because it's like kind of like cold calling, but in real life. And nobody invited you to their house.

No.

So it's not like in a store, like I got my sales skills, like I worked in so many clothing stores, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And that gave me a lot of experience, but people were coming into my house. Right.

So you're like going to, uh, like they're like, we're like busy right now.

Go away.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Busy right now. Uh, sometimes like you even have to get 'em outta the house. So like everybody has the Ring cameras now. A lot of people see a door-to-door sales rep and they're like, oh, they don't even answer. So a lot of it is like the art of trying to get somebody out of the house and piquing their curiosity within the first like 5 seconds. That way they just at least listen.

Mm-hmm.

Like a, a big thing with that industry is just getting people to listen to your sales pitch versus like what you're saying, warm leads. This is why like my academy is for high ticket sales because it's all warm leads. And I try to tell the girls, I'm like, you have no idea How good you have it. Like somebody's actively coming to you.

Yep. Way different.

I would kill for that. I know. So it's great skillset, but—

Well, now you know how to handle rejection. And I know that you say, for sure, we need to love rejection. Not just like we need to love it. We need to make sure not, we're not being soft girls. So what do you mean by that?

So, okay, there's a couple things with that. Number one, the rejection thing. I always train people, especially with mindset, cuz sales is big with mindset. is it's pretty much a math equation. So if your closing ratio is, let's say, 40%, that means every 10 people you talk to, you're gonna close 4 of them. So if you, if the first 6 that you talk to are just no, no, no, no, no, you should be so excited because literally mathematically the next 4 are gonna buy from you.

Mm-hmm.

They have to. And so you know that not every single person's gonna say no to you forever. So the more nos you get, I look at it like you're just sifting through the non-qualified buyers and getting to the qualified buyers that are actually going to buy from you.

Mm-hmm.

So it's more like every time I get a no, I'm like, okay, for sure. Like, thank you. Like, I'll never call you again. Well, that's false because I will be blowing up your phone. But, um, it's like, okay, done, done, done, done. And then I wait for the person that's like actually sitting down serious, ready to go. So yeah, the old saying of every no is closer to yes is so true, but it's more of like the mathematical reasoning behind it is true. So that, and then the soft girl. I have a problem with the soft girl.

Mm-hmm.

I can't do it. It's a big trend right now. And it's like the soft girl demure life, sitting back, relaxing, letting a man pay for your whole life, not really working too hard, letting everything come to you, attracting, which I'm, all here for. A lot of the things that I do with my girls is mindset, spirituality, law of attraction, Mm-hmm. being delusional, manifestation. So I get that, but you can't just do that. You have to do that and then you have to put your actions behind that. You have to put your money where your mouth is and actually show up. Like you can't show up to a sales call and be like, I'm gonna manifest this person to buy. And then you get hit with one objection and you're like, Yeah, for sure. I'll follow up with you tomorrow. It's like, no, you're gonna sit there and you're gonna, it's gonna be uncomfortable and it's gonna require a lot of effort, but you're gonna sit there, you're gonna roll objection after objection after objection until they either buy from you or literally wanna kill you. No, I'm kidding. But so I always tell my girls like, yes, you can be soft girl, but when it comes to sales and when it comes to like work, you're hard girl.

Mm-hmm.

So you can like turn it on and off. But if you wanna make money, there's literally no way around it when it comes to sales.

Yeah. You gotta just go after it. You gotta make sure that they know that you know your stuff. And that's not a passive thing.

Right.

That's like an alpha attitude that you have to have.

It is. Yeah. So, so I see that trend, I'm like, I don't know about that.

Yeah. And not to mention those girls that just get their lives paid for, they have no control over their lives at the end of the day.

And well, and that's the thing is like money's energy. And so I totally get like, you know, you're marrying somebody and they wanna take care of you. I love that because that's like a protective energy of like, mm-hmm, you're good, I got you. But it shouldn't be the be-all end-all because what if said person leaves?

Yeah.

Which is a true reality. Nobody ever thinks they're gonna leave in the beginning.

Mm-hmm.

So it's always knowing that you either have a skillset that you could turn into money at any point in time, which In my opinion, I could sell anything. You could sell anything.

Yeah.

So it's like learning skill sets that can never be taken away from you, or having a business that can never be taken away from you is always just the most confident building thing with a woman to know that she could if she wanted to, but also just the smartest.

Yeah, totally. Right. It makes you more attractive too. So for sure, you were bringing up objections before, and I know there's like a limited number of things that people can really say, like you can actually think through.

Mm-hmm.

All the objections that somebody's gonna have for your product or service. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna rattle off an objection and then I want you to tell me how to respond. Okay?

Okay, for sure. I love that.

Okay. I need more time.

How much time do you need?

I don't know, maybe a couple months.

Couple months.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, let's double it. I'll give you, um, you said you want 1 month. I'll give you 2 months just because if we were to move forward, I would wanna make sure that you are super sure, 100% confident. Because in this program, these people are confident, these people are ready to go. And a big part of my job is making sure that everybody's good to go when they get in. That way we have proper testimonials. So if you're not there yet, let's just not make a decision. And in the meantime, while you're doing your job and kind of thinking about it, I'll do my job and send you over all of the information in order to make sure that when you do think about it, you'll have a really good educated decision.

Mm-hmm.

So what are 2 things you would want me to include? In those email flows. Uh, that way you can make an educated decision.

I love that you're taking it away and people want what they can't have. So suddenly they're like, oh no, no, I, I really only need, maybe I only need a week, you know?

Oh yeah.

So you're taking away what they, you're taking it away now they can't have it. Yeah.

And it's kind of like the, that's what I say is like the hot girl is when it comes to a point, and normally this, I need to think about it objection is just a smoke Smokescreen, so I handled it as it was a real objection.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but most of the time it's a smokescreen, so it's just kind of like, no, for sure, and kind of like brush over it because people are just scared at the end of the day.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but when it's a true, like you've done it a couple times and they're like, no, I need to think about it, it's like, okay, give them the time then.

Mm-hmm.

But you give 'em fake time, the illusion of that, and then you can just get back into the sales pitch by giving 'em what they want, disarming them, and then getting back into the pitch.

So you're saying by asking them like, what do you need to see in the proposal? You feel like that's gonna shorten up the time that they actually wanted, or just, or like they didn't really want the time, they wanted the information. Mm-hmm.

Yes. So that, that was my point with that is you would then say, oh, well, um, can you send me over some reviews? Can you send me over some testimonials? Can you send me over, um, everything that's included, all the package options? And then as you're like typing up the email, you're like, oh my God, for sure. Like I actually have all of the testimonials pulled up here. Let me just show you. Mm-hmm. And then you're just right back into the sales pitch. Mm-hmm. And you're showing them. If that doesn't work, another angle I like to use is convenience. And this is something that you tie back in from earlier is, you know, if you're a busy mom or you're a business owner, whatever you're doing, um, I always like to say you can always think about it, but to be honest, like, do you wanna think about it?

Mm-hmm.

You know, like you're a busy mom, you're a business owner, you're never gonna have intentional time like we do right now to make a decision. And when it comes with a decision, maybe you need time, but what you need is more information in order to make a great decision. Mm-hmm. So we have the time and we have the information, which is me.

Yeah.

So what are 2 things? Yeah.

And depending on the solution, if they say they need more time, we could be like, well, how much time have you wasted not making a decision? Or how much time and money are you gonna lose if you wait 2 months to implement XYZ? Right.

One of my favorite things too is, um, when people are like, let me sleep on it. Mm-hmm. I always like to say, Well, don't you get the best sleep when you already made a decision? It's already good to go. Like you're gonna get the best sleep ever once we make that decision. So do you wanna wait a while, um, be thinking about this every night? Oh, should I do this? Or do you wanna just do it? We've been talking for like an hour. Let's just do it. You'll get the best sleep tonight. Let's go.

Mm-hmm. Okay. How about it's too expensive?

I mean, you get what you pay for. Depends on what you're selling, but I always position myself as the most expensive person. Mm-hmm. So I'm telling this person like, for sure, there's 40 other people lined down the street that'll take your business in a heartbeat. But when it comes to a service-based business or when it comes to a fitness program, a health program, whatever you're selling, if you're gonna do it, you might as well do it right. Mm-hmm. And so if you want cheap, that's definitely not us. There's other people. But if what you want is a great product, a great service, and a good reputation behind that, that's actually gonna get you the results, then that's what we do.

Mm-hmm. I love that. And when somebody tells me I'm too expensive, so I know with me, like, um, I have 2 businesses. I have my podcast network, I have my social media agency, and if somebody tells me my social— I love that. Yeah. If somebody tells me my social media is services are too expensive. We're like the number one LinkedIn marketing agency. We, we charge $10,000 a month for LinkedIn. So a lot of people are like, whoa, that's expensive. And I'll be like, well, do you sell? I'm like, are you selling right now? Yes. If I made you an influencer on LinkedIn and you got 10x to 100x more leads every month, exactly. You would make that $10,000 back right away.

Right? Exactly.

Given the track record of who stayed with you, I'm like, you know, I've had these clients that have been with me for 6 years. And they're happily paying the $10K, you know?

Well, and I also like to do the inverse. So you can do the positive of like, um, obviously like it costs this much a month, but I mean, let's say we get you 2 clients who make that back in this, whatever. So that's the positive.

Mm-hmm.

But also the negative, which is the opportunity cost of like, okay, so you're right here. What's the cost of you not doing this? Let's say we can get you here and you're here. You're actually losing all of this over the next 2 months.

Yep.

So, you know, so you can take that positive, which I love, and then you can also do the negative if you wanna get more mathematical and more granular about it in like a make money offer.

Mm-hmm.

So I love that.

Yeah. And, and it's really important to actually ask questions so that like, for example, I know how much they're charging for their offer, how they get leads, what are their typical way of getting leads? Do they close deals on their own? So it's important to know like whatever your business is, what questions do you need to ask the person so that if they do give you the objection, you're like, well, no, if you get 2 clients, it pays for the service.

Oh my gosh.

I'm gonna get you 100 clients a month, you know?

Well, that's the biggest thing with these objections that I try to teach my girls is in door-to-door it was like objection central, but in high ticket and anything that's more warm leads than anything, you can do so much front-end work to where these objections shouldn't even really be that big of a deal towards the end. Mm-hmm. Um, I call this shutting doors, so I basically say there's Um, about 6 different doors that are open, you know, time, price, anything that they've done before, fear, priority, uh, money. And you need to shut every single door that way they can't open it back up later into the sales pitch. Mm-hmm. So like for example, the objection that, you know, you just gave me the first one of I need to think about it or it's not the right time. Um, I would ask a question in the beginning of the sale saying something like, okay, well, I mean, you've been in this business for quite some time, like Why haven't you done this before? Or on a scale from 1 to 10, how ready are you in order to get real results with this? Mm-hmm. And they'll say maybe, you know, 7.

Okay, 7's really high, but why not a 10? What would make you a 10?

Mm-hmm.

And so those kind of like shutting the doors in the beginning will prevent them from saying, I need to think about it. And even if they do, you can use the ammo that you got to the objection.

Mm-hmm.

To like tailor it to that person. Yeah. So it's a little bit of a different way to train every industry, but I prefer the warm lead one all the way because these cold hard objections, it's like if you do it right, you'll have so much ammo to where you're actually excited to hear an objection. Mm-hmm. 'Cause you're like, girl, you just told me you were a 9.

Yeah.

Like, come on, let's be fucking for real, you know?

Yeah.

Basically like the front end work of the sale, everybody's like, when they see me, they're like, oh, well how do I roll this objection? What do I say when they say this? How do I close somebody? It's like, Okay. The end should be the easiest part. Mm-hmm. The beginning is the part that everybody overlooks. Everybody just hops on, is like, oh, nice to meet you, blah, blah. Let me show you a little bit about what we do. Price. Oh, I need to think about it. It's expensive. I've already done something like this before. And it's like, because you didn't do the front part right.

Yes. So yeah, exactly. Like if you get them to tell you what their objections are or to like dismantle these objections in the beginning with those doors that you mentioned. They're not gonna wanna go back on their word. They're not gonna wanna contradict themselves because people always wanna be right.

Exactly. Well, that's what I always say is people believe 0% of the words that come out of a salesperson's mouth because duh, you're a sales rep, but they believe 100% of the words that come out of their own mouth.

Yeah.

So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can't go back on later because it would feel so unnatural and it would make them, like you said, not right.

Yeah.

To go back on their word. Also, I know. A lot of the people watching are males.

Mm-hmm.

So I have a little analogy that I like to relate to a lot of the guys, but a lot of people underestimate the front end of the sale. But if you think about it, I always like to relate it back to dating. It's like when you take a girl out on a date, you know, you're gonna do, you're gonna set the date up right. You're gonna butter her up, open up her chair, pay for the meal, tell her what to wear, all this stuff. Like send her a car. That way the close at the end of the date is so much easier, right? Mm-hmm. If you don't do the whole date right. Then you're just gonna be digging yourself out of a hole when you go to kiss her at the end of the night.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Yeah. I love that. Good analogy. Okay. I tried something similar and it didn't work out.

Um, are you married?

No.

Do you wanna be married?

Yeah.

Have you had an ex-boyfriend before?

Yes. Many.

Do we hate him?

No, I don't hate anyone.

My, my, I know that was funny, but my point is You know, if your goal is still the same, it doesn't matter what else you've tried before. That shouldn't stop you from still reaching that goal. So same, like, I hate my ex-boyfriends as well, but I still want to get married, have that family and everything. So that doesn't stop me from going on dates. So what should stop you from trying out a different avenue in order to get to XYZ, whatever you're selling?

Mm-hmm.

That's one of my favorite ones just because as soon as I ask that, they're like, I mean, yes. Or I mean, no. Like, it doesn't matter what they say. And then I like to use analogies to sell a lot.

Okay.

Just because it makes things come in people's brains. So pretty much no matter what objection, you can use an analogy. Like one with price is like organic groceries. You can do cost seg with different Starbucks drinks or gas tanks. But, um, I always like to bring it back to something that they know. Mm-hmm. To where they're like, oh my God, yeah, I get it. And so the marriage one is easy cuz it's like, okay, well do you still want to get leads for your business? Do you still want to blah, blah, blah? Yeah.

The problem hasn't gone away. Okay.

Right. Um, and then you can, you can also ask 'em like, and this is something that I would ask in the beginning of the pitch, is what else have you tried before? Why didn't you like that? Mm-hmm. What are you looking for? That way when they're like at the end of the pitch, they're not gonna tell me, oh, well I've done something else. It's like, we already talked about that girl. You know?

Mm-hmm.

We're already good on that.

Yeah. And I love what you say. Uh, you say like an objection is like an infection. If, if you don't resolve it, it just gets worse and worse down the Down the pipeline.

100%. And like the infection starts in the beginning. Mm-hmm. So that would start, for example, like if you're on a call with a girl and she has a like fat rock, she's obviously married. Mm-hmm. Right? And if you don't ask the proper questions and shut the door of the spouse objection in the beginning, you're gonna get it at the end.

Mm-hmm.

Like 9 times out of 10. And so you can either one, save an hour of your time asking Stacy about Oh, like, has your husband, have you guys ever talked about this before? What does he think about this? Does he even know that you're on this call? Do you guys have a budget set aside for this? That if she's like, oh yeah, no, he does. He handles everything. He doesn't even know I'm on this call. I would just be like, okay, no problem. You go grab your husband and we'll schedule a follow-up call with your husband. Mm-hmm. Because I want everybody to be in on the same position.

Yeah.

Um, because you can just waste so much time if you don't resolve The spouse objection in the beginning.

Yeah. But you wanna be careful not to assume that the guy's bringing in all the money.

100%. You would be surprised how many times the guys would give the spouse objections. It's, it's pretty 50/50. And the, the worst thing that all the guys that I would train in door-to-door is they would always assume that the husbands would do it. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like a lot of the guys need their wife's approval.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so you really do never know. So that's why it's important to ask those questions in the beginning.

Mm-hmm. Do you feel like today's buyers are different than the past? Like how has today's buyers changed over time?

Today's buyers are super turned off by like scripts and salesy sales pitches. And I think today's sales process doesn't even start with the sales call. I think it starts with content of whatever you're selling. Mm-hmm. And those first points of contact. So everything's a sale. It's not just a sales call, it's not just a sales pitch. It's, you know, if you're selling a program for a coach and they're putting content out, that's part of the sale.

Mm-hmm.

And so a lot of the times when, you know, we work with offers, I like to look at the offer's content. It's like, okay, are you using the marketing agencies that are just doing like the big neon text and you sound like you're scripted? It's like, okay, there's a lead from that is probably not gonna be as good of a lead as somebody that's just raw, genuine, real with their audience, that's super upfront with what they sell, and they know exactly what they're getting into before they get onto a sales call.

Mm-hmm.

And so a lot of the training that we do with my girls is like, okay, once you finish my training, we also coach you on like how to find the high-ticket offers to sell for. And so the girls, it's like, okay, how do you evaluate how good the online coach is doing with the sales. It's like, okay, you look at the content, you look at the lead flow, you look at how interactive they are. And so I think the sales starts with that. Mm-hmm. And then that's why it's like the closing call is closing, makes our job 10 times easier.

Yeah. I really wanna get into online selling with you and social media, but yes, let's actually talk about close. Like what, what's your, you know, best guidance for closing a deal?

I, think that soft closing a deal multiple times throughout a sales pitch is the best way to go before you get to a hard close. So I always like to layer in, I do a couple different soft closes, a temperature gauge, and then a hard close. And this is for, this is for warm leads. It's a lot different than if I were doing like cold calling door-to-door.

Mm-hmm.

But soft closing is essentially any sort of close that makes it a little bit soft, a little bit contingent. So I would say something like, if we were to even set something up, would you want to do this package or this package? Would you want to do the calls on this day or this day? What would be a priority for you if you were to be in the program? What would be your commitment level if you were to join the program? So it's, you can kind of tell where somebody's at before you hard close them rather than just going in for the close. And you tell that based off of their responses. So they can respond one of two ways. Number one is, yeah, I would definitely wanna do like the whole thing. Or they could say like, if we were going to do it, then I would wanna do this.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the contingent part. And so with that person, you would sit there, build a lot more value before you go in for the close. Cuz the worst thing you can do, my job is all preventing the objections. The worst thing you can do is not know where the customer stands, go in for the hard close, and then they just tell you some BS of like, yeah, for sure, but I would need to think about it. Mm-hmm. And then you're just digging yourself out of a hole. So it's the layering the soft closes in. Kind of getting that temperature gauge of where they're at and then the close once you know that this person's like pretty good to go.

How do you feel about giving the price on, you know, the discovery call? Do you like to, to wait to give the price or what's your strategy there?

Yeah, so I teach my girls, so like for example, like DM setting or the discovery calls, some setters, no price at all.

Yeah.

Um, but it's hard because you also wanna make sure that this person's a qualified buyer, that they have some sort of money or else there's no point in getting on a sales call. So the rule of thumb that I always give my girls with their offers is whatever your lowest package is, um, half of that has to be the minimum because there's payment plans a lot of the time. So let's say your lowest package is $3,000. I would have the setters qualify them with $1,500. Do you have at least $1,500 to get on the sales call? Because if they have $1,500, Then they can sell them the lowest package at a split. Mm-hmm. Right. But you never give the full price because there's zero value built. And also, this is very, very important with setting up follow-up calls with spouses, is I always tell them like, okay, for our sake, just because we built so much value, I don't want your husband to be like, oh, can I join this program for this amount? Obviously he's gonna say no.

Right?

Mm-hmm. So let's just do this. We'll go over everything with your husband tomorrow at 5:00 PM. Do me a favor, let 'em come the same way that you came, blank state, just kind of to learn, and then we can go over the packages. So I don't want them to talk about, you know, even though they probably will, but I don't want them to say, oh, marketing agency for $5,000. They'll just be like, wait, what? No, there's no value built.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So basically the initial calls with call setters, not the expert, but once you actually go over everything in detail, what they're getting. Ask them questions, whatever. You can then give them the price at the end, right?

Yeah. So the price is gonna be in the close at the end. And the close for high ticket is so simple. It's just, and the investment in order to get you to XYZ is gonna be blank.

Mm-hmm.

Shut up. Mm-hmm. It's just a statement close. It's easy. Um, or you could do an option close with packages. Depends. Yep.

And I love the language that you used. You didn't say cost, you said the investment. Investment, which is way more positive investment.

And then you add in the goal KPI. So the investment in order to get you to those 10,000 leads a month, the investment in order to get, uh, the 10 to £15 loss that you were telling me about, you remind them of what they're buying before you give the cost.

Okay. Last question on sales, then we're gonna get into social media. Talk to me about reverse selling.

Oh my gosh. So I always say sales isn't a chase, it's a dance.

Mm-hmm.

And so mo— 90% of salespeople are just Product pushing, product pushing, objection, super aggressive. And when you chase somebody, they're gonna run away.

Yeah.

So a dance is knowing when to push a little bit, but then when to pull back. Mm-hmm. So when you ask me, you know, like, listen, she'll be like, I really need to think about it. It's like, okay, no problem. At this point they would've told me that a couple times. So it's like, okay, no problem. How long do you need? They never really say a month. They normally say like 2 days, but then that's when you pull back a little bit. Because you can't give your energy too much. You need to at some point reverse the energy and reverse sell. Um, another way I love to reverse sell is what I call the hot potato technique.

Hmm.

So most sales reps, they'll go, oh, well why should I go with you guys? And they'll go, oh, because we have this, we have this, we have this, we're the best here, here, and here. It's like, no, your, your energy is going like this. You're just selling them, you're chasing them, you're, selling yourself. The hot potato sales technique is exactly what it sounds. It's like playing hot potato. You get the potato, it's hot, you throw it right back. Um, same thing in sales. So I teach my girls to say, okay, well, why should we go with you guys? Well, what's important to you? Oh, well, this, this, and this. Okay, well, why are those things important to you? Oh, because in the past we've had this, this, and this. Now they're selling themselves on why they should be a part of your program or whatever you're selling.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and it comes back to what you were saying of People believe 0% of the words that come out of your mouth, but they'll believe every word that they say. Yeah. So it's about asking the right questions and making them sell themselves.

Something that I like to do on my sales calls is I try to like disqualify somebody from even being able to work with me. Like I'm so exclusive that actually I need to qualify you to be my client. Right. Talk to us about why that works.

Yeah, so I actually call it the gatekeeper, and so I tell my girls, And this is something that could really only work for warm leads, right? Like I can't, I could never go up to somebody's door and act like I'm interviewing them, the gatekeeper, right? Um, so it's different, but in warm leads, 100%. And I tell them like, you have to have the mindset, cuz in high ticket, this person's probably been following the creator for quite some time.

Yeah.

Finally wants to book a call, et cetera. So you need to have the mindset of this person just took an hour out of their day.

Mm-hmm.

To sit on a sales call. There's a reason for that. I don't know about you, but I have to have a pretty big pain point in order to take an hour out of my very busy day in order to talk about a sales pitch and getting sold a program.

Yeah.

Um, so having that mindset of this person has a problem, our program is the best possible solution for this person with this problem, and we, and we only let people in who are going to be good testimonials. And so when I was rolling that one objection, I said, and part of My job is to make sure that we're screening the people that we let in the program because we don't want you to not succeed.

Yeah.

So if you're not that committed, take that time for sure. Mm-hmm. And that kind of makes 'em pull back a little bit. The reverse selling of, oh no, I am committed though. Like I would wanna do this.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, so gatekeeper of, you know, between this person who has a problem and this program that has their solution and you're interviewing them, asking them all the questions to see if they're gonna be a great testimonial. And when you tell them at the end, you know, more of a sincere close of, I really do see, see you being one of our next testimonials. Or when you're on the testimonial slide telling them, this will be you, you know, like, can you see that for yourself? Can you see yourself being on the slide in 3 months when you XYZ, get all the rental properties, kill it in this, whatever? Mm-hmm. Um, it comes off a lot more genuine when you treat it like that.

Yeah. And it's also good to have different programs for people who are at different levels. Like, listen, you're not ready for, you know, totally all the services that I can do for you with the whole team. And like, mm-hmm, you're not ready for that yet because I don't want you to spend money and not get your ROI. But why don't you take my course and get started? And you know what I mean? So it's like having different packages is really important for sure. Okay. So let's talk about social media. You've done an incredible job building Instagram and TikTok. What is like your thought process behind building a community, building a brand? Like how are you able to just like kind of come outta nowhere in the last year and just Dominate the female sales persona?

Okay. I always get asked this question and my answer's very simple. A lot of people try to do social media instead of just actually being the expert in something that people want to watch.

Yeah.

Like everybody's always worried about what hashtags, what times should I post? Yeah. What mark? And it's like, okay, people see through that nowadays. Like you said, cuz social media is sales at the end of the day. Yeah. People see through that. So I genuinely think the reason why this time last year I had less than 10,000 followers and now I'm almost at 600,000 on Instagram is because—

Amazing.

I can pull out my camera and just talk about some random closing tip or throughout my day, it's all I think about. I'm consumed by it. So when I hear a sales pitch of somebody on the street trying to sell me something, I'm like, oh, that was actually like Pretty interesting. I'm gonna make a video about that. Mm-hmm. So it's actually being the thing before you like put that on social media.

Yeah.

That way when people see it, they're like, oh, this, this girl actually knows what she's talking about and she loves it.

Yeah. You're like the go-to person for sales. Everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page. Mm-hmm. They know the energy you're gonna bring, the vibe. They know you're talking to women primarily. Mm-hmm. But anybody can learn from your page, which I'm sure you've got a lot of male followers too.

So many males. Yeah. They always comment, they're like, I'm not a girl. Also, I'm not even in sales, but you help me with my confidence. I'm like, thank you. That's so funny. But it's funny. And then, um, like the second part about building a brand is super interesting. So I had a video that I posted maybe like 9 months ago, went mega viral. It was, um, all the girls want to live the rich, Porsche Pilates mom lifestyle. They wanna go on walks, Pilates, drive a nice car, and just kind of like have that be their day. You don't have to marry an ugly bald dude. You can give it to yourself. Mm-hmm. And the way that I give it to myself is sales. And so that video kind of popped and created this brand of like Porsche, Pilates, matcha, sales, hot girl sales.

Yeah.

And so it, it was awesome. It was super fun. And now that's like all of my girls, they all like wear their hair in ponytails, the gold hoops, and they post their matcha. So it's, it really is like a huge community and a real Brand and it's fun because that's the life I live every single day. So it's fun posting my little matcha in the morning and the girls are like, oh, love it.

Yeah. You have built this, like everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page. And yeah, you're also showing different elements of you. You're talking about sales, everybody knows you're gonna teach 'em about sales, but then you're into working out, you're into eating healthy. And so you've got, you, you can be dynamic. I always get this question like, can I be a dynamic person on social media? And it's like, yeah, people wanna know the real you.

Mm-hmm.

One of the things.

people wish I was more dynamic about is my dating life.

Yeah.

People are always like, oh, can you do like day in the life, get ready with me, like debriefs about your dates? I'm like, no, I already— like, guys probably already look at my social media and they're like, oh my gosh, like intimidated. This girl's loud, she's gonna try to sell me on a date. So I'm like, I can't talk too much about my dating life on social media because then nobody's gonna want to date me, you know? Well, talk to me.

Well, Let's take a little tangent here. Okay. 2 very, 2 very successful women. How is dating for you? Do, are men just really intimidated, especially with your age?

Okay. Everybody thinks that everybody, the comments I get are like, oh, it's probably gonna be so hard for her to find a man, blah, blah, blah. I have never had more options.

Yeah.

And a lot like in the weird, like the least weird way to say that.

But options aren't great cuz I feel the same way. Yes. But it's like, it's almost like I can't make a choice.

I agree. And I also don't have the time to go on all these dates. So I always like to say, being a successful woman that makes her own money, it disqualifies all the people that wouldn't make sense anyways.

Yeah.

Because like the broke guy is never gonna be like, oh, like that's my wife. Yeah. You know? So it's like, but I also don't want somebody that doesn't have goals.

Yeah.

So it kind of like disqualifies the people that wouldn't work out anyways.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then the options that you do have are like, okay, these are actually like great, great guys. And I wanna be with somebody that wants their wife to be a badass and have her own thing. Yeah. And that I can have intellectual conversations with. So yeah, I think it's, it's been going great, but good. I also just don't have a lot of time, so.

Yeah, I hear you.

All right.

Well, Shelby is single if you guys wanna take her out on a date.

Yes. You have to live in Miami.

So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral?

So B-roll videos do really well, which is just like the 5 to 2 second videos with text on it. Um, those ones do really well with me. I like to say in another life I was the best copywriter on the planet cuz I, I do all my social media myself. I don't hire a single software.

I was gonna ask you, do you do— it looks like it's all you.

Yes, I hire, um, actually that's false. I have, uh, 2 like intern copywriters that help me out.

Okay.

But I only have them do bullet points for stories. Mm-hmm. And then they only touch stories, by the way. Nobody touches my like actual videos, contents, broadcast channel. And it's because I've tried it before, because it is a lot running the whole social media thing with, yeah, how much content I put out. But when it's not you, people can tell. I know. And it's also not fun to post for me. I don't know. Um, and when it's me, like it, it just does so much better.

Yep.

So I'm like, I'd rather put out less stuff and it actually be me. But yeah, I do literally everything myself. The best stuff that does well on Instagram for me, there's like 2 buckets. One bucket is the B-roll with the funny copy on it, but the other bucket is a really funny sales tip.

Mm-hmm.

So I'll start a video by saying something out of pocket, like you have to be a brat in sales. And people are like, wait, what? But then I follow it up with a really good sales tip. tactic that's like, okay, well when somebody asks you a question, you ask 'em a question back. That's bratty, but like that's how you get the deal done. Mm-hmm. And people are like, okay, that makes sense. And those videos get the most amount of followers. The B-roll ones are like, no, they're just like for fun. But the sales tip ones are what really roll the page.

Yeah. So it's like kind of shock them with something that they're like, what is she talking about?

Right.

And then give them a really smart response.

And then they're like, okay, that makes sense.

Yeah. I'm so excited because, uh, I've been like heads down building my company for 4 years. Yeah. Basically like creating other influencers.

Right.

Monetizing other influencers. And for my brand, I just like kind of on autopilot. I have a team, I've got reels.

Right.

It's not me, like you were saying. Right. And this year I'm just like trying to get everything off my plate and I'm like gonna just go super hard and just teach and just go back to my roots. Cuz that's how I started is like I blew up on LinkedIn just teaching people. And I can't, I love that. I can't, I can't wait to get back to it. And you've been an inspiration cuz I'm like, damn, she's so good at her videos. Like I was like, I, I need to just do that.

Oh my, no, you do. Make that your 2025.

That is my goal.

Because you are such a badass. I'm like, you just flip the camera up and start talking. I guarantee that's awesome.

Yeah, I can't wait. Couple last questions here. I know you've got a course. I'm sure there's so many people tuning in. I know that you do webinars for your course. Mm-hmm. You probably got a bunch of different sales funnels. So just walk us through how you actually sell online? What's a good salesy type post? Do you use ManyChat webinars? Like what are you doing to sell? What are your main ways to sell online?

So it's funny because I guess this is like a sales tactic, but it's actually true is we, I don't let people just join. Like you can't book a call from my content, go to the link in bio, get on a call with the team and get onboarded. So I only open my program, which is called She Sells at the end of masterclasses. At the end of webinars, and I only open it for like 20 minutes. Mm-hmm. And it's a time where like I have girls that DM me all the time, hey, can you send me the link? I wanna join SheSells. And we're like, nope, gotta come to the masterclass. 2 reasons. Number one, women are gonna be successful when they know exactly what's in it, when they're super hot, when they're all going together. And so I make them sit on a masterclass for an hour, learn the ins and outs of it for free. And then it's like, okay, now that you know it, Mm-hmm. Join and you only have 20 minutes to join, so you gotta, you gotta join now.

So you're like condensing their decision time. They can't talk themselves out of it if you only give them 20 minutes. They only have whatever's fresh in their head. They can't go talk, they can't have their spouse talk them out of it. They gotta decide right then and they have to pay within that 20 minutes. That's genius.

Yes.

Okay.

And the reason, like the reason is too, it is a sales tactic, but it also is more of a fulfillment reason too, because They all get in at the same time. The way that I do it is it's not cohort style, but kind of is. And women love to do things with their girls. Like we don't even go to the bathroom alone. So it's like knowing that you're alone on a call, but you're also joining with all of the girls at the same time from across the world.

Mm-hmm.

Is that's how I've built my community. Like my community on social media is cool, whatever. My community in my program. is insane. Mm-hmm. I will go to war with any other community in the world because my girls are so like, they bleed SheSells. Mm-hmm. They, and it's awesome.

That makes so much sense. So it's like people want a shared identity.

Mm-hmm.

They wanna talk the same language. They wanna feel like they're part of a group. And so having them make that decision on the call together, mm-hmm, it's like they all like kind of got like, not hazed in a sorority together at the same time, but kind of.

It's like, yeah.

Bond. Yeah. I love that.

When I tell them too, like, I mean, when you're purchasing anything and especially like getting into sales, that's something that's scary. And so that's my time to kind of talk to them. And a lot of it is like mental of like, okay, when a decision is scary, that's how you know it's right.

Mm-hmm.

Because that's how you know you're growing. And so it's scary for everybody on the call right now, but like if it's calling you, like I do invite you to join. And it's also just more fun for me because we get to onboard all the girls at the same time. There's not people just trickling in.

Mm-hmm.

We can kind of know like, okay, this group is going at this pace and this pace and this pace. So, um, it is nice.

That's really cool. And are you collecting their emails and then retargeting them if they don't sign up to join the next webinar? And like, how cohesive is your strategy in that way?

Yeah, so I have a whole team, so I have a team of 22 and they handle a lot of like the backend emails, a lot of the sequences and the stuff that, you know, I am not an expert on. But a lot of it is retargeting. And what we found is that, um, somebody doesn't just join a class and then join at the end. A lot of people join a couple classes.

Yeah.

And it's funny cuz it's the same class.

I know. That's funny too.

But they just, and it's, you would never think, you would never think that. But the way I run my webinars is it's super energetic. I have caffeine, I have mustaches, I do role plays, I handle objections live. Like it's fun. And so I think people join for the energy, but But when they come like a couple times, they're like, okay, okay, I finally feel like I'm gonna do it now. Okay, let's do it. So that's interesting. So true.

Some people need to go 2, 3 times and then they'll buy on the webinar. And webinars are so smart people. I've got lots of content on webinars, guys. I interviewed Jason Fladline, Russell Brunson, just on webinars. So look those up if you're interested because webinars to me are like the hottest way to sell something.

Same.

Low to high ticket, it doesn't even matter. It's just like the best way to sell in my opinion.

I agree. And I would, people are like, oh, why don't you have sales? You have so many sales girls. Why don't you have them take calls for you? Um, I'm the best, like, sales girl to sell my product.

Yeah.

And I just, I love, I genuinely feel like I was born for webinars.

I love it.

I was born for it. Like, I'm sitting here amazing selling one, selling one-to-many is so fun because the way I like to sell during a webinar is I'll take every sort of customer segment, every sort of target market of our girls and overcome the, their objections. So like you have the moms, but then you have the girls that are working part-time, you have the students. And so you're like, well, if you're a mom, I'm talking to you, handle that. If you're a student, I'm talking to you, handle that. If you're international, I'm talking to you, handle that.

So you kind of get, you know what I think it is that I realized? What? I think we're just, we love sales so much and like webinar is like the ultimate sales challenge.

It is.

You know? And so it's just like so fun and it's, it's really fun.

I love to do webinars. It's like I look forward to them. Same. They're my, they're my favorite part of the week.

I love that. Okay, so last question. You are living in Miami and you just moved there and you talked about the Miami effect. So what is the Miami effect? Oh yes.

So the Miami effect is a pretty known thing, but it's basically when you move to Miami, you get hotter and richer. No argument at all. You just get hotter and richer. And the reason is because Everybody that lives in Miami, and when I say Miami, I'm really talking about Brickell, which is where I live. People are like, no, they're not. And I'm like, where are you from? They're like, Little Havana. I'm like, okay, well that's not where I live. So we're talking about like Brickell, the city. So where I live in Brickell, I mean, the rent is insane. The, you buy a coffee, it's $15. So like you have to make money in order to live there. So everybody in the elevators, everybody at the coffee shops, on your walks, And in order to make money, you have to have good skill sets. You have to have some sort of business. You have to be a cool person. So it's like you move to Miami, you start meeting all these cool people. Side note, Miami is the land of the fakers though. So you kind of have to like—

It is.

There are a lot of people that are like real awesome. But that was one of the things where I first moved here. I thought everybody was like so real. Uh, they're really not. But for the most part, like, you know, you meet all these cool people. People are making a lot of money. People are walking outdoors because the weather is awesome. Mm-hmm. Everybody here is so attractive, so you need to become attractive too. So it's like you just rise to the level of the standard of Miami, which is your Miami effect.

Yeah. Environment is so important. People don't realize it. You know, if something's not working out for you, yeah, it could just be that you just need to move, meet new people, get inspired. Yes.

Well, in Atomic Habits, that's the biggest thing is You can change your habits like this if you change your surroundings. That's why when somebody goes to rehab, they don't send them right back to the same apartment, same house, because you start associating your physical surroundings with your every single daily habits.

Mm-hmm.

So the best way to break your habits and literally change your life is to get into a different house, a different apartment, or even better, a bigger city. And I always like to explain it as like a fishbowl. Like you're a little fish in a normal fishbowl.

Yeah.

But then when you get a big fishbowl, you grow to fit the size of the bigger fishbowl.

Mm-hmm.

And that's why, like a lot of people that have experienced something like this, if you can relate, um, you go back to your hometown and you feel like a big fish. Yeah. And you're like, oh my gosh, like I don't fit here anymore. I don't fit. So, and that's the best thing to feel.

So, yeah, I love that. So Shelby, this has been such a great conversation. Honestly. Yes. I feel like you spit so much game on sales. I think everybody learned so much. I end my show with 2 questions I ask all of my guests. You can answer from the heart. What is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?

Spirituality. Mm-hmm. 100% every single day spirituality. When you have a why behind what you do, you'll become more profitable in no matter what you do. And that was the biggest game changer for me. As soon as I moved to Miami, weirdly enough, I got really into my faith. Um, as soon as I moved here. And what happened a year ago?

Wow.

My whole life completely, like, and it's not just because, you know, if you want to do that, then, you know, get in touch with God. But I do genuinely think you just take more risks. You know who you are when you truly believe in something that's bigger than yourself. Mm-hmm. So like, no matter what that is, like find out what kind of spirituality you like to go into it and make sure that that's the first thing you do in the morning and last thing you do at night. And don't, before that, don't go. Uh, on your phone, scroll on TikTok after you pray at night. That's like my biggest thing because your brain is so in like manifestation mode, dreaming all of this. You're praying and then you go to bed and that's your subconscious mind. So on a granular thing, spirituality will for sure.

I love that. And what is your secret to profiting in life?

Ooh, like in business or just like, just in life? Energy.

Mm-hmm.

100%. I like to explain to people, your energy will make your life better.

Yeah.

No matter if you're a server, an accountant, if you're in sales, a business owner, people don't wanna be around you if you're just sad and mopey all the time.

Yep.

So the best thing that I do in order to be profitable in no matter what I do, whether that's relationships, business, even friendships, calling my mom, like people have these little interactions with you. And that makes up their story with you, and their story with you determines what that relationship is gonna be like and how much you love your life, because your life is all of your relationships. So carrying that positive energy and genuine energy too with everything you do in life.

Totally. You are so positive and it kept the whole conversation so engaging. I'd ask you a question, you'd be like, oh my God, I can't wait to answer this question.

I know, this is so fun. You have such good questions too. I seriously enjoyed this.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Shelby. Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?

Yeah. So my Instagram is shelby.sapp. My TikTok is Diary of a Door-to-Door Saleswoman, which I will be changing. So don't go there. Um, but go to my Instagram and then you can see my website link in my bio.

Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Of course.