I remember walking back to my car and I got in the backseat of my car. Suicide came to, to thoughts. I felt like my life didn't matter and I felt like just giving up on life.
Anthony O'Neill teaches that real wealth is not about looking successful. It's about building freedom. After becoming homeless and deeply in debt at 19, he rebuilt his life and became a number one national bestselling author, personal finance expert, and the host of The Table. So let's talk about how bad it was, 'cause you were $35,000 in debt.
$35,000 when I should have been, if we're gonna look at it from a practical perspective, I probably should have been in zero. There's some cities out there to where everybody got a Rolls-Royce, everyone's a millionaire, but the truth of the fact is 76% of them are faking. If you really look at the math, 71% of us are living paycheck to paycheck.
So what are the 3 things people should do once they receive their paycheck?
The very first thing that I tell everyone—
That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from you. It's, the goal is not to be rich. The goal is to be free.
Freedom is everything that I'm aiming for. Throughout the entire month of July, my company is off and I pay all of my staff and my team members a full month. Hey, go take it off. Why? Because—
Anthony, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
Man, holla. I, I've been excited about this one.
Oh, thank you so much. Oh my gosh.
I flew in just to sit down with you.
Oh, I'm so honored. I feel like our listeners are gonna learn so much from you. I hope so. And I, I do wanna start from your origin story because it was so powerful. You've got this awesome rags to riches story.
Oh man.
So I found out that you were homeless at age 19.
Yeah. Yeah.
And one of the most pivotal moments for you was when a little girl saw you and asked her dad, hey daddy, can we give him some money? And, and he said no.
Yeah.
What, what feelings did that bring up at the time? What kind of shame? Were you going through at the time?
A lot, if I'm being honest and transparent, you know, just a little backstory. Right around that time, there were some tough issues happening within that particular city of Oceanside, California. We had just built the very first school that was named after the first African American to really do big things, and from my knowledge of it, Martin Luther King Jr. And so I felt like I was being judged One, possibly for skin color, or two, for that. But I also remember being the kid in the backseat asking my parents the same question when I was young. And I was like, "Man, I'm not a bad guy. Like, I'm not gonna do drugs." I literally wanted to go to Carl's Jr. and get me a burger and some fries. And when I heard the father say, "We don't give them money because they'll do bad things with it," Mm. I remember walking back to my car and I got in the backseat of my car and suicide came to thoughts. I'm a Christian man and I was like, "Man, God can't be real." Mm. I felt like my life didn't matter and I felt like just giving up on life.
Clearly I didn't. Because I'm still here today. But a part of me was like, "Man, I'm done." Yeah. Because if we rewind, all the money that I spent up until that point was on my friends, was on ladies I was trying to impress, was on a lifestyle that I was trying to maintain. And not one person who I tried to impress, who I helped, who I bought things for, They never offered me a place to go lay my head. They never offered me a place to come and eat. Then here we go, I got my mom and my dad who are these God-fearing people, and me and my father get into this argument that pretty much lands me outside of the home. And so I'm looking at both sides of my worlds are saying, "Yeah, no, bye." And so it was a tough season, but I also do believe, Hala, that was the best season of my life.
Because it led to everything else, like your purpose in life, essentially.
It forced me to see me.
Yeah.
And to see the lack of information that I didn't have at the time. Then it also made me be like, yo, you don't really have real friends in your life. You have users.
Yeah.
You have placeholders. But you don't really have real friends. And 3, it really made me understand that my parents did love me. They were just trying to teach me the best that they could.
Yeah.
With the information that they had. And then again, like I said, I'm a spiritual guy. I just, I just literally fell to my face and was like, okay God, what do I need to do? Mm-hmm. And how do I get back on my feet?
I really wanna talk about how you got back on your feet. But first of all, let's, let's talk about how bad it was.
Yeah.
'Cause you were $35,000 in debt.
$35,000 when I should have been, if we're gonna look at it from a practical from a perspective, I probably should have been in zero.
Yeah.
You know, my father, my biological father, so I have a unique situation. I have 4 parents. And my biological parents had me outside of wedlock. So my biological father married my other mother, who's an amazing woman still to this day. And they lived in Fayetteville, North Carolina. My biological mother married my other father, had 2 more siblings, and we all lived in Oceanside, California, pretty much San Diego. And so man, when I sit here and I tell you that I, I, I had a, a solid upbringing of, of people, it was just absolutely, absolutely amazing. Mm-hmm. Um, but I'm grateful for those four parents that really sowed into me.
Yeah. But, but they, they failed to kind of teach you financial literacy, right? Because absolutely. You ended up in debt. How did you end up in the $35,000 debt?
Well, the first part was, which was the craziest part, is my biological father, like I was saying, he, was in the Army, right? So, I had my father's GI Bill. So, when I went to school, I didn't have to borrow any money. But because my parents, unfortunately, which I love, and they're pretty sure they're gonna be watching this show. So, I love you, Mom and Dad. So, just know I love you when I say this. They didn't know what to do with their own money at the time. And so, the world taught me, well, hey, since you have access to this money, Go borrow it. And I'm like, all right, bet, cool, man. There's no problem. My school was already paid for with the GI Bill.
Yeah.
So I take out $15,000 in student loans just to, just to live, just to have money, just to go buy nice things. Then I was like, okay, cool, great. I get a credit card and I get that credit card very first day. My mama tells me, nah, bro, don't do that. And I say, mama, I'm, I'm good. I got it. And within 24 hours I maxed out that first card. And so back then in them days, you know, they were just giving away credit cards to college students. And so they upped that limit to about $1,500. I spent that on my car and a sound system. Then 6, 7 months later, you know, I'm in another, what's that, about $20,000 worth of debt renting from Aaron Sales and Lease, renting a PlayStation and a big heavy floor TV. You know, I'm, I'm renting leather couches that I was sweating on. I'm, I'm renting the bed inside of the apartment.
Oh my God.
And so I'm, I'm just racking up all this money. But if I'm being honest, my parents didn't teach me financial literacy because their parents and the school system didn't teach it.
Mm-hmm.
So who taught me finance was BET. Who taught me finance was MTV Cribs. Mm-hmm. Uh, it was the music videos. It was the, the environment that I subscribed to that was showing me if you wanna be successful in life, you better drive this, you better have this kind of house, you better have the PlayStations. And if I go really honest and vulnerable with you, if you wanna get a beautiful woman, you better have some money.
Yeah.
And so I said, well, let me go get this money. When it wasn't my money, it was borrowed money. And no one even taught me what— I just knew if you borrow money, you pay it back. But no one told me interest. No one said, hey, over a period of time, it's gonna be way more. If you borrowed $500, if you pay it over the minimum payments over 3, 4 years, you gonna spend $2,000 for it. And so, uh, that's how I got into the $35,000 worth of debt. And, uh, I would say about $32,000 of it went to collections. Hmm.
There's so much to dig into there, but something that really hit me while you were talking is the fact that you felt like when you were down and out, you had nobody to turn to.
Mm-hmm.
Meanwhile, you did all this spending to impress those very same people. Like you were trying to put on a facade.
Yes.
And it was the culture that you were in that was really, I guess, pushing you to feel like you needed to buy all these things, have this image, look blessed. And I actually saw something on your social media. You said 76% of luxury buyers are actually broke.
For sure. Yeah, it, it's, it's when I look at social media, when we look at what's going on, we see that, for an example, well, I won't say the name of the city 'cause I don't wanna be disrespectful, but there's, there's a, There's some cities out there to where everybody got a Rolls-Royce.
Yeah.
Everyone has a beautiful car. Everyone's a millionaire. Everyone is doing this. But the truth of the fact is, uh, when you really study it, 76% of them are faking. If you really look at the math, 71% of us are living paycheck to paycheck. Mm. Out of that 71%, 90% of them are saying, if I miss a paycheck, oh, all hell is about to break out when it comes to my life. Mm. And so, That was the case for me.
Yeah.
I was looking good, man. I, I was driving a 1987 Nissan Maxima with 22-inch rims on it that was rented, uh, with 212s and a 1,000-watt amp that I did pay cash for. Now, I didn't pay cash for that. I put that on the credit card. Uh, the car could not go in reverse. It had a dent on the passenger door, and it was only worth maybe $500. Mm-hmm. But I had about $3,000 of extra stuff on the car.
Mm. To make it look good.
Yeah. So I can look good, right?
Yeah.
And I was so upset because when I went to trade it in, they only gave me $500 for the car. Mm. Didn't give me anything extra for what else I gave them when it comes to the rims. So I took the sound system out, couldn't take the rims out because I didn't know, well, if you can put your, those on, you should keep the stock ones. Like it was a lack of information So I learned from culture, not— I didn't learn from school. I didn't learn from my parents. And so, um, that's why I do what I do today.
You might've thought that you were actually financially secure because you had good credit.
For sure.
Like you were able to get those things.
For sure.
And a lot of people sit there and they're like, oh, I got an 800 credit score. Right. And I'm doing good. And people are always asking about other people's credit scores, especially in relationships. But that doesn't really mean anything.
Right? No, it doesn't. I had a young lady ask me that. What was my credit score on the first date? And I told her the truth. I told her the truth. I told her the dead truth. And I'll never forget it. I've never shared the story like this before, but I, I told her my credit score was a 510. She never went back out with me. Never went back out.
It's so funny 'cause you could be making so much money and still have a bad credit score.
No, that's a fact. I had multiple six figures inside of my bank account. I, I had just paid off all of my debt. Maybe about a few years before that timeframe. And my credit score was low because I didn't have any open trade lines. I wasn't even a homeowner. So there was nothing being reported to my credit report. Mm-hmm. Which is why I'm not a huge fan of the credit system because it rewards you for borrowing money, but it doesn't reward you for investing, for saving, for living below your means.
Mm-hmm.
But when she asked me that, I would never forget, I took her back home, never got a phone call from her again. She told her homegirl, Her homegirl boyfriend, he and I play golf together. He said, man, I really wanted to go after my girlfriend because she's like, how does Anthony have a 500? And so he said, man, I asked her one question. I said, what'd you tell her, bro? He said, did you ask him why he has a 500 credit score? And she went back and asked her friend and her friend said, no, I didn't. And then he went back and told both of them when she was on speakerphone, he says, "Anthony has a lot of money." Mm. "He doesn't really buy and put anything on credit anymore." Yep. And so, true story.
Yeah.
Won't say the name. She calls me back the next week. The ratchet side of me came out, and I just ignored her.
Good for you. Good for you. I mean, that happened to me too. I remember when— Like I decided that credit cards were bad. And when I started my company, all the credit cards, first of all, were in my company's name that I did have. And I had no personal credit. And I remember I made almost $1 million that year. And I went to go try to get an apartment that was like, I don't know, $7,000 a month or something. Facts. And they wouldn't give me the apartment because they said that I had bad credit. Like I didn't have good enough. I didn't have enough credit. Like I didn't start my credit, you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
So I had to, You do need a balance. But that brings me to, are you aligned with Dave Ramsey's perspective on no credit card debt ever?
You know, Dave Ramsey is, I believe he's a guru in the financial literacy space. And I had the opportunity to work for the man for years. And so when I say aligned, no. Do I respect and agree with his stance? Absolutely. Since I have left his camp, went back to school and I've evolved, I have a different philosophy and I talk about this in my book, "Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck." I believe if you're drowning in debt, I'm 100% aligned with Dave. You do not need a credit card. Cut it up, run away from it. Right?
Because you, you're not responsible.
Not responsible at all. And if we're gonna be honest, I think that's about 90% of the average everyday people are not responsible to have a credit card. So my philosophy is get outta the credit card debt. You need to be out of debt for the period minimum of 24 months before you even touch it. Because I believe money is not really a math problem. It's just habits. Yeah. You know, it, it can you build a healthy habit to where you treat your credit card like a debit card? So to this day, I only have one card and that's an Amex, and I pay that off every single Monday. I will not let it go past—
Every single Monday?
Every single Monday. I'm so— I don't like debt. I completely run away from consumer debt.
Yeah.
But I do understand the benefits of having a credit card, which I have Amex's charge card. You got paid off every single month. You know, I won't even get a card that will let you pay it off over, you know what I'm saying? Over, over months. 'Cause I don't wanna pay out any interest. I still do believe that paying out interest is a penalty and it's not worth it. I wanna receive interest rather than pay out interest.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna put it on my Amex, get my points, have the security. And I love the added benefits that come with the Amex.
Yeah.
I had a trip come up and Unfortunately, it got canceled and Amex took care of it for me.
Oh, nice.
Right? And so, um, I do. So I respect and love, and I believe that his system works because the reason why I am consumer debt-free today is because of the Baby Steps. Right?
Yeah.
And so now with me evolving and I have just a different audience, um, I have veered off some things from what I used to teach with Dave.
Yeah. So if you have good behavior with your credit card, for sure, use it. Use your points for flights, for hotels. Now, why every Monday? I feel like that must be like a mindset thing with you. Like, do you just hate seeing debt?
Yeah. And I just don't want to be caught lying.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I'm saying? So I think for me it's just more so of I build that habit. I just build the habit of making sure that I stay consumer debt-free.
Yeah.
Because what Dave teaches is honestly the truth. You gonna swipe it, you're gonna spend more. Yeah. And I think for me it's I, before I even swipe it, I look at my budget and if it's in my budget, then I'll swipe it. If it's not in my budget, then I won't swipe it. Now, let me be completely honest. Is that difficult though?
Yeah.
To not swipe? Absolutely. I'm human. I got flesh. I want that.
Yeah.
You know, but you know, for me, here's what I've learned. I want freedom more than I want to be impress— impressive. And one thing I have learned, that debt robs us from freedom. And the moment that you borrow money from somebody, you are now enslaved to them. They get to tell you if you can take off for a month and go enjoy time with your family. And I just said, I do not want to be enslaved to no other person but to my decisions and my habits.
Mm. I love that.
And so I, I refuse to allow my debt to be someone else's gain.
That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from you. It's, "The goal is not to be rich. The goal is to be free." Free.
Yeah. Freedom is everything that I'm aiming for. You know, I think this culture is driving off of like, oh man, I wanna make a million dollars in a month and I wanna make this, I wanna make that. I'm like, man, I just wanna be free. You know, I just came back from a 2-week cruise. Out in Greece that I paid cash for.
Nice.
Right? And throughout the entire month of July, my company is off and I pay all of my staff and my team members a full month. Hey, go take it off. Why? Because—
So cool.
We've built a business without any consumer debt that allows us to have freedom. Mm. And freedom for me may look different from freedom from what you may call freedom for yourself and for your family. But Uh, for me it's if I wanna take off for the month of July, unplug, go travel the world, let my team off and pay them their full salary for the month, man, I get to do that. But if I was just in debt, I couldn't do that.
Yeah.
You know? And so, um, I'm single and I'm looking forward to being married one day and I wanna have the freedom and I'm practicing that now because of my situation. Like every Friday I don't work. So we're recording this today, tomorrow will be Friday. I'm going home and I'm playing golf in the morning, and I am going to take myself out to a movie and a nice little dinner on tomorrow night because I want to practice freedom. I desire freedom so that way when I get a family, I can take my children to school if I get married with kids. If I can say, "Hey, bae, after I play golf with my best friend in the morning, me and you going out every Friday night, no matter what." Right. And so that's to me, that to me is way more important than rich. Cuz rich is temporarily.
Yeah.
You know, and, and I think wealth positions you to have true freedom.
Yeah. Well, you've done an incredible job with your career with acquiring wealth and you know, it all started from when you were 19.
Yeah.
Homeless in your car. How did you get to where you are today? Like what were some of the first steps that you took?
You know, I had to be honest with myself, and I won't say that it started at 2021, '22, when I started changing things around. It took me a while to really figure out some things. If I'm being honest, I think, um, the reason why a lot of people do not experience success is because they do not have a strategy or plan. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that a lot of us, we know how to work hard, but we don't know how to steward that hard work and turn it and follow a solid plan. So for me, when I was trying to get out of it, man, I was reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert Kiyosaki. I seen you had him on your show.
Yeah.
I was— I read Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey, and I've read so many books, and I was watching so many things on YouTube. And at that time in that season, Yahoo was real live. So I'll look up some things on Yahoo, and I had to teach myself, you know, these principles. And so, I think for me, when I resonated with the 7 Baby Steps, it just, I was like, okay, cool, this is what I wanna do. I'm gonna follow this. And that's what I did. And, and this is what I tell everybody, even if you don't agree with everything, you can, 7 Baby Steps, what you teach, right?
And that's to get outta debt. That's like Dave Ramsey's famous thing.
Yeah.
7 Baby Steps to get outta debt.
Yeah. And so it was like, even if you don't agree with the stuff, still do it because it's a proven system that works. And so that's what I did. I literally followed that. Some days I'll fall off, some months I'll fall off, but I'll get right back on it. And I did that until I was debt-free.
Mm.
You know? And so for me, it's, it was, I found a plan, I found a strategy, I worked the plan and the strategy until I saw a difference in my finances.
And how did you turn that into your purpose in your career? Like what were the first things that you did to start speaking about financial advice and getting your foot into Ramsey?
The foot into Ramsey was simply because, Dave and his team noticed that I was teaching it. So I was a youth pastor for years, and I would go around to different high schools. We built probably one of the largest African American youth ministries in the world. We would have 3,000 to 4,000 people at our youth conference and see thousands come throughout the week. But it was because I was going inside the high schools during the day. So my pastor at the time would allow me, instead of coming into the church office, he would allow me to go into the schools.
Hmm.
When I would go into the schools, I would sub for some of the teachers. And when I say sub, I'm going in there while they may be doing work study or doing something like that. I can go in there and I would talk to kids about how to look up scholarships, you know, what is a credit card, what is a credit report? I was teaching financial literacy to kids. Then what we end up doing, 'cause we saw that that was working, I would then come back and on Wednesdays for our midweek days, instead of for me teaching quote unquote the Bible, I taught them life skills around finances.
Oh, cool.
You know, teenagers wanna know how can I get a pair of Jordans at the time, you know, how can I, how can I do this? What can I do? So Wednesdays was our life financial days and Sundays was our biblical days. So when that started blowing up, man, I was getting calls from all kind of churches, from organizations, hey, can you come teach our students this? And so then that was my journey to really build the talking, I would say ministry and the talking platform around finances. When I first joined Dave, I was the youth guy. And of course I evolved, got too old to be speaking to young people. And so, that's, that's one thing that I did there is just really started my youth career around, uh, and, and how long did you work at Ramsey Solutions? I was there for 6 years, I think.
Yeah. 6 years.
6 years. Yeah.
And then at some point you decided you wanted to go out on your own.
What was, for sure.
What was the moment where you're like, all right, it's time for me to go independent. I wanna be an entrepreneur. Yeah.
I think for me it was, uh, Dave and I both agreed. I, I grew a such a hard passion always had it, but just didn't really have it that well, that established, I would say. But I, I have a, uh, heart for the minority community.
Mm-hmm.
And so I wanted to really learn more about some of our history, uh, to learn more about some of the struggles that we dealt with and some of the struggles we're still dealing with. And I'll never forget, I went back to my high school, mm-hmm, um, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and I looked around And there was not one curriculum around financial literacy. The, and, and our counselors are, you got 5 counselors to 3,000, 4,000 students. They can't talk to every kid.
Yeah.
And I was like, wait a minute, we don't have access to certain things.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I say this respectfully, but different cultures experience different things and there's different messages for different cultures. And so I said, you know what, I wanna do that. And Dave and I and his, his board agreed that it was just best for me just to do that. And they supported me in my transition because I really wanted to make sure that I can go back to the African American community, the minority community, and really speak our language to us to help us make some, some massive changes, which is important to me.
Yeah. Help us understand the current situation of the African American community financially compared to other people in America. Like how much worse is it?
Man, it's, it's, it's interesting question. There was a stat that just came out here recently that from 2000 and I would say 2009 to 2017, the wealth gap didn't just stay, it got wider by $50,000.
Whoa.
Right. So we're not talking about this happened in the '60s and the '70s. We're talking about during the internet boom, during this time, that the wealth gap even got wider. And, and I think it's just because one, the lack of information, the lack of access, and us really not really narrowing down and having the right plan. I have a lot of white friends and, and they be like, well, do you want me to stop working? I'm like, absolutely not. Yeah, no, I don't want you to stop working because I mean, that's important. And so my philosophy when I speak to my community is like, hey, We can't really close the wealth gap because if that's the case, then I gotta ask my friends to stop making money. I don't want that. What we can do is focus on our family and narrow the wealth gap, meaning that Anthony O'Neal today, I'm thinking about my Black children, my Black great-grandchildren, and I'm putting in things so that way when they're born, they're already at $100,000, $200,000 of a head start rather than being at the negative when I graduated high school. Yeah. And so, I wouldn't say it is worse.
I would just say that we are behind and we gotta do some things on our end to, to really close the wealth gap, not close it, narrow it for our particular families.
Yeah. Well, one of the first steps is to stop living paycheck to paycheck, which is—
That's a fact.
The theme of your new book.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How big of a problem is this? How many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck?
Yeah. I mean, it was just, just on the news yesterday. I was watching this preparing to fly here and CNBC really touched my heart and said that right now their numbers, their data is showing close to 62% of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
Geez.
Right. So, that means the majority of them. When you're looking at the paycheck, what's hurting them is going to be car insurance. Interesting. Debt, which I looked at that is unnecessary debt. And then the other one was just the cost of living of today. Yeah. And when you really study that report, the, the average household is gonna be making in between $60,000 and $100,000 depending on where you are. Right. And so it's really not the, it's really not because we lack income. It's, I believe it comes down to two things. Number one, uh, we're overspending in certain areas, right? And then number two, we don't really just have an understanding of what to do. When I really go back to myself, I was selling cars and I made $100,000 when I was 26. Okay. Uh, 27, I made $130,000. 28, the car dealership closed down. I was fired. I called my dad and my dad says, well, you should be straight, son. Your rent is only $500. You, you, you made at least $10,000, $15,000 a month. You should be straight. I opened up— I didn't open, I called the bank because apps wasn't really a thing back then yet.
I had $400 to my name, and it was because I didn't have access. I had the income.
Yeah.
Like, I think I didn't have access. And so for me—
Access to information.
Exactly. I had access to income, but I didn't have access on what do I do with this kind of money.
Mm-hmm.
And I was taking my money and going to strip clubs and doing all this type of stuff at a young age. And I really wasn't making the right decisions because again, I was trying to be impressive.
Yeah.
And so I think for me, which is so funny and which is why I could understand it, at 26, 27, I'm making the most money I've ever made in my life at the time, and I'm still living paycheck to paycheck.
So what are the 3 things people should do once they receive their paycheck?
The very first thing that I tell everyone who received their paycheck is before you even receive it, the very first thing you should do is have a plan for your money. People don't like the term budget, and I can understand that. In my book, I call it have a vision meeting for your money and sit down and tell your money what to do. There's this viral post that went around with a young lady. She was being interviewed on a podcast and the podcaster asked her about budgeting. She said, you know, one of my friends, we invited her to go on this trip with us and her friend didn't say yes or no. Her friend said, let me go check my budget first. Well, when she said that, her friend said, we never even called her back. And the podcast host says, well, why didn't you call her back? Because I don't wanna be on a trip with someone who's counting every single penny. And I was like, well, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, you don't wanna budget, you don't wanna steward, you don't wanna know what you're doing with your money.
And so for me, I actually enjoy budgeting. Like, it is, it is fun. Today because I get to tell myself, I'm, you know what, I'mma save to buy my dream car. I just purchased an estate home, a big home out in Maryland. And I've been saving because I knew eventually I would like to have a home on a golf course. And so I was trying to wait until I got married. That didn't happen. So I just went and just bought me a wife anyways. And so, but for years I saved up for it. Right? It was on my budget. And I love the fact that I'm able to sit down on paper and sometimes when I'm really dreaming, I'll pull up the wall and I'll just write on my wall on a sheet of paper and I'll say, okay, I wanna do this. This is what I'm gonna do with my money this year, 2026. I wanna make this much money and pay myself this much money. And every single month, these are the categories that I gotta cover. And I honestly get excited about it because when I go and, and drop money to be on a yacht, I'm not burdened by that because I gave myself permission to enjoy it.
And I already know when I got— when I get back, everything else is straight.
Yeah. And it's also like visioning your future and like making sure you get to do the things that you dream of doing.
That's a fact. And it's like, even on my budget, I have a line item on there for my children who I haven't even met yet. Every single month, I am setting aside money for them. And I see it getting bigger and bigger and bigger every single month. But that's because I'm budgeting. It's because I'm putting it on paper and I see it. And on the 27th, in between the 27th and the 29th of the month, I always take myself to Ruth's Chris. I get me a nice cocktail and I sit there and I write out my budget for the next month.
Now, one of the ways that we can make sure that we're not living paycheck to paycheck is making more money.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And you talk about this thing called financial margin.
Yeah.
What is that?
Well, margin for me is, is your biggest wealth building tool. Everyone thinks that, oh my gosh, I need to make $100,000 to become a millionaire. No, no, you don't. I know millionaires and I mentor several athletes who make millions of dollars, right? And they are broke. Broke. They live paycheck to paycheck. And one of the very first things when I'm sitting down with some of these athletes is, and I'm just asking them the very first question, what is, what's your margin? And I, I'm a professor at Virginia Union University in Richmond, Virginia. And that's the very first thing that I, I write on the board on, on our very first day of class. I tell 'em, hey, listen, your biggest wealth building tool It's margin. It is not the salary that you're gonna get from your job. And you'll be so surprised when I say margin. My students on day one do not know what the word margin means when it comes to finances. And by the end of our semester, they, they totally get it. But I think for me, that's one thing that I, I work on now is how can I create more margin in my business?
How can I create more margin in my own personal home? Yeah. And I, I have goals for my own personal, when I see my margins getting below this, but hold up, wait a minute. What do I need to go back into my budget and fix so that way I'm not getting below this?
Yeah.
Because I wanna be prepared for what if, what if a brand deal says, hey, we don't, we no longer wanna partner with you. Okay, cool, great. I have some margin within my income. I don't have to touch my emergency savings account. Right. And so I think margin is just a solid, break in between your income, what you have coming in, and your outcome, what you have going out. And whatever's in between of that, that's where I play with and I invest and I strategize and I multiply. That is the tool that's gonna get me to my goal is 50. When I turn 50, it's in 8 years. I'm building a house in Accra, Ghana right now. Should be done by the end of this year. I want to retire in Accra, Ghana, and the margin is going to be at a certain number inside of my portfolio, and I will live off of the interest of that portfolio that my margin allowed me to have.
So cool. I love this concept because margin, we always think about it in business, but we don't actually look at our personal life and think margin. So what is like the practical way for people to figure out what their margin is? I know it seems like an easy question, but break it down for me.
No, I mean, it's an easy, it's an easy question, but it's also not easy for people who really don't understand it.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I think for an example, let's say if you have, let's just go round number. If you have $5,000, right, of income, your net income, not gross, net income coming in, you write that down and then you're gonna look down and this is what we call a zero base budget. You're gonna write down all of your expenses. And I tell everyone, man, write down your student loans, write down your hair, write down your makeup, write down your shoes, write down the apps that you're, you're, every single thing that you're spending money on. If you're in a church and you tithe and offerings, you gotta write that down as an expense. And then you'll see, once you get done with that, before you get to zero, you will see how much money you have left. Mm-hmm. I call that margin. And sometimes the majority of us are at negative. Mm-hmm. Because we're overspending what we have coming in. Yeah.
That's living above your means, basically. That's exactly what that is. Yeah.
So we're using what, credit cards and payday loans and and all that type of stuff. And so I'm like, for me, that's how you can identify if you have margin. Margin is going to build your net worth. And if you are negative, then you gotta go back to your budget and you gotta figure out, okay, wait, can I cut? And sometimes, a lot of times, honestly, you can't cut nothing else.
Mm-hmm.
Which goes back to what you said earlier, we gotta get some more income coming in.
Yeah.
Um, and so, but if you have, let's say $5,000 and you have, let's say, $3,500 going out, this means that you have $1,500 in margin. Mm-hmm. So now you understand that. Cool, great. Now on the paper, on your budget, go back and say, how am I going to invest and spend this $1,500?
Yeah.
And this is what I tell everyone, man. I think for years I, I grew the, I grew the per— I would say people thought that I was very strict. Mm-hmm. And I think that with that margin, You have to determine how much of that do you just want to spend and enjoy? Because I do believe that there has to be a moment and some time and resources in our life that we can just spend money on whatever we want to spend it on and enjoy life. Because every single day, the majority of us are getting up every day working hard, sunup to sundown. You're an entrepreneur. We don't— we can't work 8 to 5. Sometimes we got to work 8 AM to 8 PM. Right.
And so I want to enjoy, especially while we're young and we can do the fun things, right? Go traveling and everything like that. So we want it, but that means that we need to make sure that while we're young, we have a big enough margin, right? To do what we need to do.
And I just think this generation has the opportunity to do some things that, um, our parents and great grandparents could not do. You know, I think we can get to margin quicker.
Yep.
Um, um, all of my mentees who I mentor, um, they all sign a contract and an agreement with me, uh, that they will maintain a certain amount of margin. And, uh, we just had one young guy, he is 26, started with me 4 years ago. Uh, he graduated college, got a job making about $62,000, and he, he went back home. He saved $1,380 a month, every single month. Um, and he did some extra things on the side. He's 26, just bought a home, put down $100,000, paid cash for a BMW, still has six figures inside of his account, and has a job now paying him about $82,000.
Nice.
And he's, he's 26.
Amazing.
So now he understands it. And we laugh all the time because he's like, "Man, everyone thinks because I had this BMW and I have this townhome that I'm just gonna be balling out like that. And they still don't understand." I'm like, "No, no." Because he values traveling. He values going to play basketball with his big brother overseas. So he can take off work for 2 weeks and go do that because he has the resources and the funds to do it. So I think this generation just has so much more freedom that I didn't have growing up. And which I love though, because now I'm able to utilize it.
Let's stick on margin a bit. So when we have our margin, I'm assuming some of it goes to emergency savings, some of it goes to investing, some of it goes to debt. Is, is that right? Am I missing anything?
For sure. I mean, here's my thing. If you have consumer debt, 90% of it should be going towards your consumer debt.
Got it. Okay.
And then I would even say if you have consumer debt, this is where I differ from the guru himself, Dave, I do believe that you still should be maximizing on your 401 match.
Mm-hmm.
If they're giving you a match, if let's say if it's 3%, we'll take some of your margin and give them 3% of your margin to, to do that. But let me rewind, if you're drowning in debt, you really don't have margin, right? And so you need to utilize as much of the extra cash that, that's not going to mandatory bills You need to utilize that to get you out of consumer debt.
Got it. So pay off your consumer debt and then you can focus on margin. Absolutely.
Got it. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool. And then how much of that do you think should go towards savings versus investing?
Yeah, so for me, I, I don't really have a certain amount. I have an amount that you should land on. I believe that we should be at at least 6 months of our net pay inside of an emergency account.
Okay.
And the reason why that is because it's taken on average about 90 days, 90 to about 120 days for someone to lose their job to get a new job.
Mm-hmm.
And so I want you to be comfortable and not have to change your lifestyle at all for those 90 days. Because what studies are showing is that if we, um, can operate off of our slow mind, we make better decisions. If I only have $1,000, right, to my name and I just got fired.
Yeah.
I gotta operate off of my fast mind. Mm-hmm. And that's when we tend to make the wrong decisions. And so for me, when I can just still be Anthony O'Neal and not stress, man, I'mma sit down, I'mma call you. "Hey, sis, I just— I thought, what do you think I should do?" You know, because I have time to think, to process it.
Yeah, you're not just like making, like, you know, crazy moves that are gonna put you in a bad situation.
That's it. And so I think 6 months— after 6 months, I say in my book, and I talk about this, some people may disagree with it, You shouldn't invest up to 22% of your income. 22% of your income is gonna be 10% to tithe and offerings if you are practicing Christian. And then right around 12 to 15% into, you know, investment accounts and portfolios.
Nice. Okay. So let's say you're a high income earner. A lot of our listeners are entrepreneurs. This is an entrepreneurship show.
Dope.
And some of us are making millions of dollars a year.
Yeah.
And we have a lot of income. So, For me, for example, if I was to save 6 months of my income, that's a lot of cash.
Good.
And like, would you want me to put that in a high yield savings account or, or, for sure. Or is stocks considered okay? Or what?
No.
Okay.
No, I need you to keep it liquid. You know, we're, we're blessed to do, you know, a lot of money as well. And I honestly have a year, I have a year because of my expenses. I still have a mortgage, so I still have debt. I don't really believe in a term good debt, bad debt. I have debt that's on an asset, right? And so I wanted to make sure that I have enough money to pay my mortgages, right? Because I have more than one, I have rental properties as well. And then I could still play golf, right? I could still do whatever I want to do. So when I say your net pay, your net pay should be able to cover every single thing. So I keep that parked into a high yield savings account.
Okay.
There's several out there that say, if you have more than 6 figures, let's say for an example, you can get up to about 5.5 to 6% on some of them.
Oh, which one? Because Amex, I just, I was putting it in American Express and it just reduced it from like 5.5 to 3.5 or something like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I opened up mines, I was with BankPurely.
Okay.
And it was offering 5.7.
Nice.
I haven't checked them lately because I don't look at that account.
Yeah, that's just, yeah, I just, I don't even want to see that money.
Right. You know, I know it's there. I don't even have a card to that account. Um, I just know that it's there, and if I ever have an emergency, then boom, I can go to it. But I haven't seen that account honestly in maybe about 4 years.
Nice.
I just put the money there and I let it sit there. Uh, but I, I get that a lot of people, especially in our bracket, they're fearful to let their money sit there liquid.
Totally. Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Because it, they say it's not growing, but in today's economy, You need some funds liquid to make sure that you're prepared for when the storm is coming.
Yeah.
Because I, it's coming. I mean, I've been doing this now on my own going on for now 6 years.
Mm-hmm.
Right. And there's been some months that my business did not make any money.
Mm-hmm.
There's been some months that my business made a little bit of money. Right. And so because I had the funds liquid, I was able to pay my staff and my team and just didn't take a check for myself.
Yeah.
And just lived off of my savings. Right.
So important for entrepreneurs whose income is always fluctuating and everything like that. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's a, it's bad management and it's not really good entrepreneurship if your personal life is not taken care of. The reason why I can focus on my business and really excel in my business is because I know personally I'm, I'm covered.
Yeah.
And this is what I tell all the entrepreneurs. Never go into your personal income to fund your business. I will let my business go before I pull from my personal.
Why?
Because my personal is my life. That's my livelihood, you know, that's my family. So I'm not gonna take money from my family to fund, I hate to say it like this, someone else's family. No. Hey, I teach it to my staff. When you first join my team, save money, bro. Because if I have to shut this down to protect my family, I'm gonna do that. Mm-hmm. Right? And so I'm not gonna pull money out of that to go save this because your business account should already have an emergency account.
Yeah.
So we have an emergency fund. If I have to use all that for some odd reason, I'm not gonna pull from my wife and my children to go fund this just to make payroll.
In the beginning though, you might wanna save up money to bootstrap your company.
For sure.
And then at a certain point you're like, okay, the— that's what happened to me. At a certain point I was like, okay, the business needs to like work on its own now.
For sure.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, in the beginning you should be your number one investor.
Yeah.
Uh, but if we're talking about entrepreneurship and we've made millions, mm-hmm. And we still don't have an emergency account on that account.
Yeah.
Yeah. No, you, you unfortunately made a bad decision.
Mm-hmm.
And so I do not, I will not do that. And that was just one thing that my mentors told me. They said, hey man, for those, that first year when I stepped out on my own, man, I paid myself a very small fee and I put, I was so fearful 'cause it was like, hey man, entrepreneurship is not easy.
Yeah.
And what you don't wanna do is build this, make all this money, then you gotta rob from your future family just to make payroll. It was like, man, you need to have X amount of dollars sitting inside of a high yield savings account, not invested yet, and then really start building things. Because I already had the savings account on this and I was about to pull money out of my emergency savings account to fund the business. And my mentor told me no.
Let's talk about making more margin. One of the ways that we can do that is by taking a second job, becoming an entrepreneur where there's no ceiling.
Mm-hmm.
And something really interesting that I heard you say is that you wouldn't advise people taking a high six-figure job, like a $350K job a year. You wouldn't advise doing that because it's kind of like golden handcuffs, right?
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if, if I pay, if you come work for me and I'm paying you $150K, and you don't pick up the phone call at, at 7:30 at night talking about you was with your husband, I'll be like, no ma'am, I paid too much money for that. And so my suggestion, right, for if we're speaking to your audience, right? Yeah. We are in a unique time. I think within the next 5 to 10 years, we're gonna see a major wealth transfer happening. And I, I had the opportunity to sit down with the president of of the Black Chambers in Washington, DC, and just listening to him talk, I was like, wait a minute. Okay. For an example, we're living in a day and time to where people who know how to work AI, they're, they're gonna get some good jobs.
Yeah.
For sure. Right. But AI can't touch the AC companies. AI can't touch roofing. Mm-hmm. AI can't touch plumbing. And so what I'm telling these young guys coming out, I'm like, hey man, if I was you, I would go work for a trade company. Learn the trade.
Yeah.
Right. Do that on the side and start your business because AI can't come in there and figure out why is it not getting cold. They can help you with some coding, let you figure out, okay, this is the problem, but you gotta actually go in there and fix it. And we're in Austin, it's 98 degrees.
Yeah, it's hot here right now.
Right. So we know houses are running that AC and that AC unit is going out. And so I think when it comes to margining and growing more margin, If I'm an entrepreneur right now, let's say I have a little bit of margin that I can invest, I'm going to go buy an AC company. I'm looking at any kind of trades that requires physical hands, and I'm going to talk to that 80-year-old, 90-year-old owner and say, hey, can I come work with you for a year or two and buy this company from you? Now that when I buy this company, man, one of my friends just did that. Company was making maybe about $700,000 a year. He, he added in new technology, brought in AI to run and to handle the other stuff. Last year, I think he told me he made like $1.3 million. Hmm. His investment in it was, I think he said he paid one for it, $1 million for the business. I'm like, wait a minute. Okay. So even if you can't buy it, if you need to make extra income, man, I will be working in that field. Right now because that's where a lot of— nobody really wants to go out there in the heat.
Nobody wants to do the plumbing. And so a lot of people, and I, I will say this and people may disagree with me, but I'll say it. I think that's probably the quickest way to become a net worth millionaire right now is to, to go into, um, trade work. Absolutely. 'Cause everybody wants to sit up in an AC and just do coding and figure out AI and do automations and stuff like that. Great. I think that world is gonna be saturated. I'm always looking for if— when I, when I'm doing my stuff, right? Uh, and I'm always trying to find different avenues. I'm saying, what is the void and how can I fill it? Even if it's unattractive, even if it looks horrible, if it's a void and I can fill it, oh, I'm gonna make a lot of money. Yeah. Because nobody else wants to do it.
Mm-hmm.
And because nobody else wants to do it, I can charge a premium price.
Yeah.
But now, Everybody's in AI automations.
Mm-hmm.
Everybody's coming out with this AI something, something. Wait a minute. Well, why should I go with you? Let me go. It's saturated. I can go to her and go to him. I go to her and get the best quote. Boom. But, but there's not a lot of trade companies out there.
Yeah.
And so I really believe that if someone really wants to get some extra cash real quick, I'm looking into trade. Mm.
When I first started my company, YAP Media, I actually was working for Disney. And I had my podcast already and I started building my social media and podcast agency on the side. I had international employees and I would finish work and I would work on my social media business at night.
Yeah.
And within 6 months I was making over 6 figures a month and I quit my job and, uh, you know, became a full-time entrepreneur.
Yeah.
But those 6 months were amazing.
Yeah.
Because it was COVID time. So like I, I was working from home.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I was like able to kind of build this new thing on the side.
Mm-hmm.
And it was because because I was getting paid a little bit over 6 figures, but I wasn't like an executive yet. Yeah. If I was getting paid $300,000 a year, I would've felt like Disney's my identity. I've gotta do everything for this company and I wouldn't have dared started anything on the side. So it was sort of like a blessing to have like kind of like a lower level job so I could start my own thing.
I, I think that is what I said on that clip. I'm like, hey, if you are looking at this being your forever situation, I understand. But I never really looked at something and said, "I'm gonna be here forever." I've always looked at something to where I'm gonna be a good steward while I'm here. I'mma serve, I'mma grow, I'mma learn, and then step out eventually and do my own thing. And I would advise that to anybody, man. If you can get you a job that's paying you $80 grand, $90 grand a year, and you can live way below your means and come home every single day, 8 to 5 you work for them, 5 to 9 you work for yourself. You, you will excel. And I believe you'll even pass your goals and your dreams when you—
Now I'm making like at least 5 times more than my VP was making at Disney, you know, like making so much more than I would've if I just stayed on that corporate track.
Yeah, I agree with you. And it feels good.
It does feel good.
It feels good.
But you also have to be giving, right? As an entrepreneur.
Absolutely.
You were saying as a Christian that you, you're very generous. You even teach that, that you should give before you even start investing.
For sure. I think generosity is one of the best kept, I can't say wealth secrets because every wealthy individual, even Dave, you had him on. I've never seen a more generous entrepreneur outside of Dave Ramsey.
Yeah, he's the best.
Yeah. You know, and I believe I'm like, okay, wait, wait, wait. If he's doing it, my parents, super generous at their income level. I'm like, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait. And I've never seen my dad frown. I've never seen him miss a mortgage payment. I've never seen him like go broke. He worked. And what I've learned with all of the individuals who are generous, yeah, they're at different levels, right? Income-wise, but they have so much joy. In their life. And I said, okay. And, and a true story, when I first, uh, transitioned out on my own, um, you know, of course my paycheck stopped. Mm-hmm. And so for the first 3 months, I didn't make any money, but every single month I still gave away, I paid myself outta my savings and I gave away 10%.
Yeah.
Before I paid my mortgage, before I did anything else, I gave 10% away. And I just believe, whether you believe in God or believe in universe, I'm a God-fearing man. And so I believe that God said, you know what, Anthony's being faithful with the few, let me bless him with more. And I was like, okay. And so when I started noticing that my income was going up and when my income would go flat, maybe sometimes down for a season, Like for us in the money space, that June, July, August, that's when our, our money tends to go down. Then it goes back down right around November and December because of everyone is going for Christmas. I've never skipped a beat. I've never missed a payroll. I've never been able to not do what I wanna do. And so our CFO, she understands that every single month we give away 10%, and specifically within our company, we give away 10% to single mothers. And we just love it. We've bought a single mother a car before. Sometimes we put it on social, sometimes we don't. But I just really do believe that if you're generous, it activates the spiritual realm for me.
And I believe that is the greatest multiplier, quicker than stocks, bonds, real estate. Because if God can trust me with this amount, then he'll enlarge my territory. And that's what I love.
I totally agree with that. I'm actually 100% Palestinian.
Oh!
Yeah. I love this. And so I feel a lot of guilt because I'm like, oh, I should like use my platform to be an activist. But I already started my career before a lot of this happened. And so something that I did is that I started a charity project called For Peace Media.
Facts.
And I donate, at first it was more, but now it's 10% of my sponsorship money every month. There you go. And I basically just fund this project and it's a whole other platform that basically speaks out about human rights and things like that.
Yes.
And it does make me feel like I'm getting rewarded for doing that. And, and it helps me like mentally think about everything that I do. It like has a purpose. And the bigger that I get, the more impact that I'll make on the world.
So, no, that's a, that's a fact. Listen, uh, me and you are the same way, right? And so I was like, man, I don't want to be, um, Black power on my show. With all the stuff that has happened. And so I did the same thing too. I started a nonprofit, and we donate to that, and we donate to that that creates and donates to some of the other causes out there. Because I want to be a blessing to everybody. But I also understand that I am an African American male in the United States of America, and there are some issues that need to be corrected. That battle is mine, but I fight it differently. I fight it with my resources. And I fund it, and people don't really know where Anthony stands, because I respect and love everybody, but I think what you're doing, man, keep doing that.
Thank you.
You know? And there's nothing wrong with that because we all gotta do it. I like that. I like her even more. Is that my camera right there? I like her even more now, y'all.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, I want to play a little game with you.
Okay, we gonna play a game.
We're gonna talk about, so in your book you talk about escape plans.
Yes.
Okay. And there's different stages. We don't have time to go over all the stages.
Yes, ma'am.
But what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give you a scenario and you're gonna tell me what is the next step that the person should do.
Okay.
Okay. So person in this scenario, what is the next step that they should do? Okay. Somebody earns $90,000 a year.
Mm-hmm.
But has no idea where the paycheck goes each month. Mm-hmm. What, what do they do?
Uh, the very first thing is they gotta lay down the foundation. That's the very first thing. So, uh, that's phase one. So within our, my philosophy, right, is if you're making $90,000 and you have no idea where it's going, you need to step back and look at, okay, what am I doing with this money? Um, one of my friends, I talk about this inside the book, she's an ER doctor and, uh, she said one of her biggest complaints is that people will come in to see her She— I forgot the correct term for it, but she's like stage 2, like gunshot wounds. It's something major. She goes and she deals with that. And she says, "The very first thing they ask me, or the family asks me, is to fix them." And she said, "That's the wrong ask." Mm. Because if I go in there thinking I'm fixing them, I could honestly kill this individual. The very first thing, I gotta get him stable or get her stable. Get our heart pumping without us having to pump the heart. Once I get you stable, then I can go in there and assess what is wrong with you, what happened, how do we fix it?
And I think that's what we gotta do. If you got $90,000 and you don't know what's going on, okay, wait, we need to get you stable. And stabling is, all right, very first thing is you need to set aside at least one month of your net pay.
Yep.
So that way you know exactly where one month of your money is going. Then from there, we gotta sit down and look at your budget. If you don't know where it's going, what are you spending it on? Okay. What, what's your mortgage? You know, how much money are you spending on clothes? What's your transportation looking like? What's your food looking like? Do you have childcare, right? Like what, what's going on with your children over there? Let's lay down the priorities and let's put everything honestly on the table. And I think this is where people mess up at. They're not honest with themselves. They guess. No, go pull up your last 3 months of your bank statements. Go pull up the last 3 months of your credit card statements. Go pull up all of your credit reports, all 3 of them, and put it on the table and put the truth before you. Mm-hmm. Because we cannot fix what we refuse to look at. Yeah. So good. And so I, that's the very first thing I would do, uh, for that scenario.
So good. A family invests consistently, but they don't have a will, trust, or life insurance.
Yeah. So that means your, your legacy is not cement. It, it's not, it's not locked in. Right. And so we talk about this in Phase 5 that I believe that everybody should be focusing on building a legacy. Right. And so it just happened to me. It's just snapped on me personally. 5 years ago, I was investing, got no consumer debt, making a lot of money. And I woke up one morning feeling guilty that I did not have a trust. I didn't have a will. And I felt convicted that if I was to die today, because I have a unique situation, 4 parents, 2 siblings, um, a staff that depends on me, that my family would argue over what I want.
Yeah.
And what I wanted them to do with my resources. So, I literally woke up, called my attorney, and said, "Hey, I need to put an estate plan together." I need to get a will, I need to get a trust. And you know what's so funny is all of them was like, "Are you okay?" Like, "What's about to happen?" It was like, "Do you need to tell us something?" And it's so sad that people think when we start talking about wills and trusts and medical power of attorneys and stuff like that, that something's wrong. Like, we need to change the narrative. Like, no, life can just happen. I mean, we see it all over the news. Um, every single day that you can think you're going somewhere, you can think you're gonna go back to sleep, and life can just happen. And I didn't want life to just happen to me without it being clear of what I want to do. And so I put together my trust, my will, my power of attorneys, um, and even watch this, I moved all of my beneficiaries to the trust. Mm. So that way when it goes to probate court, it won't be as expensive for my family.
Is there like a certain like milestone where people should be considering having a will and a trust? Is it like an income level or is it when you have kids?
No, no.
Like how old do you recommend people do this at?
As soon as you have a job.
Really?
Yeah. Because there's layers to it, right? And so if you're 22 years old, just got a job making $30,000, $35,000 a year, you got an apartment, You got a car, start the process because here's why. Yes, you may not have a lot, right? But you're building the habit for yourself. And that's what I want you to do. So if you get a basic will, man, put on there, Mom, Dad, hey, don't be crying at my funeral. You know, have a choir and sing some happy songs. Whether it's just something small, cool, great. But then as you get older, wiser, making more money, have more assets, have more things, then it's honestly gonna be even a bit cheaper for you just to go back and to add things to it rather than start from scratch from brand new. And so, mm-hmm, um, I, I tell everyone inside my book, the very first thing is, um, in phase 1, as you're getting, you know, stable, hey, yes, go ahead and get a basic will, get a basic trust, right? And then build on it as your assets and have you have, and as you have more income.
Mm. Okay. This one's about debt.
Uh-oh.
A couple has $40,000 in consumer debt. And I'd love for you to explain to us, 'cause we said it a bunch, like what does consumer debt even mean?
Mm-hmm.
And only $500 in savings. What should they do?
They have $40,000 in debt and only $500 in savings. Oh man. Do they have income?
Let's say they're making $100 grand together a year.
Okay. That's good. That's average. That's mid, that's middle, middle class about for the, um, Let's say about $83,000 for the middle-class individual household income, $40,000 in debt, $500 in savings. Okay, cool. Great. Very first thing I'm gonna tell you is consumer debt to me is anything that is requiring me to spend money on a liability, right? And then, uh, debt that I have is anything that is gonna be on an asset, um, like land, real estate, right?
So house, car, is that— is car?
So yes, to answer your question, a car is not That, that would be for me considered consumer debt.
Okay.
Some people say, well, wait a minute, if I'm using it for Uber, it's, it's still consumer debt, right? It's not an asset because it depreciates, right? So I think a car is one of the worst things you can actually borrow money for, respectfully saying that. But for me, if I'm the couple, I'm making $100,000 a year, I have $40,000 in debt and I only have $500 in savings. The very first thing I'm doing is I'm going to put at least 1 month of my family's net pay inside of the savings. So that's for me and my wife. If my wife makes $2,500 and I make $2,500, we putting $5,000 for an example inside that account.
Yeah.
Then from there I'm sitting down with my wife and we're going to list out all of the debt. Now there's 2 type of ways. Some financial advisors argue with me all, all the time on this one. Uh, but this is where I align with Dave. I'm going to look at all my debt and I'm going to line it all up from smallest to largest when it comes to the amount, not to the interest payment.
And that's debt snowball strategy, right?
The debt snowball, right? Yeah. So I, I'm not a fan of the debt avalanche. Now let's be honest, the debt avalanche does make sense. That's starting with the biggest, the biggest interest, right? Down to the smallest, right?
Which makes sense because you would save money, I guess, over time, right?
Well, if you do the math, yes. But if, if my interest rate is 28% on a $30,000 loan, yeah, no, I'mma pay this, this payment and I'm not gonna see it go down. And so we see success when people can honestly see quick wins. I am in the process of getting my AFC for a financial counselor. And one of the things they tell us is the one of the best things you can do is identify a quick win. For your, your client. And so if we can get people to see quick wins, man, they'll get through that debt snowball very quickly.
Because it's a behavior thing.
It's a behavior thing. It's a habit thing. And they can see it. They can see their, the fruit of their labor and their sacrifices and their hard work. They can see, I'm gonna say no to McDonald's today for my family and go cook at home. And we're gonna take this money and put it on this debt. They see the payment go down. So it creates this momentum and excitement. Um, and I think that's what I would do for them. I'm getting on the debt snowball method and watch it. Let me go deeper. You said family. Yeah. Mom and dad need to have a conversation with the kids and let them know like, hey, we are in debt and we wanna make sure that you, you understand of why we may not be able to go to Pizza Hut this weekend. Why, um, we may not be able to do certain things as a family because we want to make sure that when you graduate high school, that we can give you a check, that we can help pay for school.
Yeah.
And not just do it behind closed doors. Bring children in because they need to understand about money earlier on and let them help. Hey, go cut some grass. And if you make $100 from cutting grass, you're going to contribute $15 to this.
Yeah. And now when the parents say no, the budget is the bad guy, not the parents.
And that's the thing too, when it comes to marriage, man, being a single person, I'm not qualified to give dating advice, right? But I have a lot of married people come to me, and when they come to me with money arguments, what I've— I would say about 70% of the time, it is not really money arguments. It's just a lack of a clear, defined vision for the finances of the family. She has her own vision for the money. He has his own vision for the money. And so my philosophy is this, no matter what you said, if we sit down as a couple and as a family and say, this is our vision for the family, Son, you wanna go to school? Yes, sir. Uh, you wanna go to school debt-free and take no student loans? Yes, sir. Cool. Great. Mom, what you want? Wife, what you want? Boom. Husband, father, what you want? Boom. Great. We put it on the table. Here's our goals. Here's our vision. Now when son comes to me and says, can I have this? You don't gotta ask me. Just ask the vision. If, if my wife came to me and say, babe, I know we got the money.
Okay, cool. Great. But does that, if we buy that, does it stop us from accomplishing the vision that we set out for?
Yeah.
Now it goes back to what you said. I don't have to tell my wife no. The vision told my wife no. My wife doesn't have to tell me no. The vision told me no.
Yeah.
And so I think that's very, very important for a family that if you are in that amount of debt and you have that little bit of resources, the very first thing I'm doing is I'm getting money inside of that and I'm sitting down, I'm getting a clear vision. Because if you aim at something, you can get close to that or hit the target. But if you aim at nothing, you're gonna hit that all the time.
Yeah. I wanna move into relationship advice, uh, financial advice.
Okay.
But first I wanna talk about the debt snowball because I never really understood what it meant. And then I did learn and it was pretty interesting. Like basically you start with the smallest amount, right? You pay that off and then you take, you go tackle the next one and you roll in whatever you would've spent on the smallest amount on the next one. Next debt payment.
Yes.
Yeah. So it kind of makes it easier because you're already used to spending that money, right?
Absolutely. So what happens is, let's say you have 3 items. One of them is, uh, $25 a month. The next one is $50 a month. And let's say the next one is $100 a month. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make all the minimum payments on all of them. I'm paying that $25, right? But then the debt snowball really works when you can make extra money and put it on top of the very first one. Mm-hmm. So let's say you go look at your budget, You're already paying $25 here, $50 here, $100 there. But let's say you found an extra, you, you turned off Netflix, you turned off Spotify, you turned off some extra things. You got an extra $25 just for simple math. Well, I'm already paying $25. I'm not gonna spend this $25 on the food. I'm gonna take this $25 and put it on top of the first $25.
Mm-hmm.
Now I'm paying $50. Okay, now I'm paying regular bills. Then when this one gets done, I have I got $50 over here that I was paying. Yep. Now I'm gonna take this $50, I'm gonna put on top on the next $50 for the account number 2.
Yeah.
Now I'm paying $100, right? And, and I think that's the secret to the debt snowball.
It like gamifies it a bit.
For sure, right? And then I'm just, I'm just a guy to where, man, when I was getting outta debt, I was calling them. I was saying, hey, listen, you know, I got, I got some extra money. Can I put it towards principal? Can I, can I cut a deal with you? Can I, can I get outta this quicker? Like, I wanna pay you back this money ASAP.
Yeah.
Um, I, I, I got excited. I got so excited too that I think ladies back then when I was dating, they didn't like me because I just would not spend any money.
Wouldn't spend any money on them.
I wouldn't do it.
Cause I'm like, well, if I dang it, you gotta invest in your girl too, right?
Hey man, listen, listen man. When I was getting out of debt, man, I, back then in them days it was Denny's. Um, we would go to Denny's, sometimes we'll go to IHOP and I was like, y'all, I can't do it. You know, so I would literally go back to the crib. I'll make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I remember taking a young lady on a date to the beach, and I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, some Cheetos, and some Kool-Aid. I bought a blanket, and we had a blast. I mean, we didn't last too long, but— But I mean, I think for me it was, I saw the fruit of me working 2, 3 jobs at that time. I saw my money actually making an impact on my life. And for the first time in my life working that, I saw freedom. Yeah. I didn't see more money. I saw like, wait, wait, wait, I could really be free here.
Yeah. Well, you learned your lesson 19 years old, right?
For sure. And I learned it again at 23 and then learned it again. When I finally got it, I was like, wait, I, I could really be free and I could be the first family. I could be the first person in my family. To have freedom. I love that. And that meant a lot to me more than having a girlfriend and more than impressing people because I knew that with me being a man, I gotta provide for my family and, and I don't want to tell my children I can't buy them shoes because I was at IHOP and Denny's years ago.
Mm. I love that. Okay. So speaking about family, uh, relationships, how do you feel about prenups?
Oh man. You know, Uh, such a funny, um, conversation. I feel as if prenups for a certain net worth, certain people, um, is, is wise. I think prenups are good, right? Um, but I mean, if you're coming into something, you got nothing and she got nothing and you got nothing.
I feel like that's the best. But so many of us are older and not in that situation.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, my attorney, he told me, he was like, Anthony, when you get married, I'm not letting you get married without a prenup.
Mm-hmm.
And the Christian side of me was like, "What? No, no, you crazy, man. Man, I'm not getting into this expecting it." He said, "Yeah, but 52% of marriages are not working." He said, "And out of all of the couples who come to me, they were in love day one. But the truth of the fact is we're all dating a different human being, and you never know." And I can say this respectfully without saying too many names, but someone in my family, I would've never thought they was going through a divorce. They're going through a divorce today, and it is— it is emotional. I cried one night.
No.
Uh, because 42 years of marriage and the hell that she's having to go through, the bills that comes with it, um, it's not— it's, it's just not fair. And because of their situation, it's looking like, uh, this particular family member will have to pay him something.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah. And so I'm like, "Yeah, no, you ain't about to get me up at this age with that." So, I think that it should be a healthy conversation that both parties bring to each other and just ask, "How do you feel about it?" You know, "This is where I'm at in life. This is where you are in life." And I would not go to the extent of saying that if she or he is not willing to sign a prenup, then you should walk away. I can't say that. But I think that it should be a serious conversation. And I think we need to— I know me, when I'm dating, like, "Hey, if we were to get married, what's the worst-case scenario?" Like, "What do you want?" Like, "If we were to get divorced, what would you want from your husband?" Because right now, we're happy, we're in our right minds, we're not hurt. We can be fair upfront, right? And I think that that's why I like prenups, because when things go wrong, man, Even the good people can turn nasty at times.
Yeah. How, how often do you think people in relationships should be talking about money? Like, should there be like a monthly meeting? Like, what do you suggest?
Married or just in general? Married.
Let's say married.
Oh yeah. It should be monthly. I mean, one of my good friends, Darrell and his wife, they actually talk every Tuesday about money. Mm-hmm. They have a business meeting. I think that marriage— I wanna say this correctly. I'm not marrying someone who I only love. Love doesn't pay bills. Love doesn't build legacy. I'm marrying someone that I love and that I can build a business, a dynasty, a family with. And her IQ when it comes to money is important to me. Her IQ when it comes to business— I'm not saying she has to be an entrepreneur. She has to understand how to have the conversation with me around business. And so, I think that, but every week, every other week, at least bare minimum monthly, we should be having a healthy conversation about money. But if we rewind before then, by date 3, you should be talking about money.
Oh, really?
For sure.
What, what, what do you think the question should be? Like, what should you bring up on date 3?
I mean, tell me, how, how was your upbringing when it came to your family? Like, what was it? What was your money philosophy? What are some of your goals with money? What do you, what are some of your goals right now with money?
Can you ask, do you, do you suggest asking people like how much they make?
Why? Why? It doesn't, it doesn't matter because he can make $200,000 and still be $300,000 in debt.
True.
She could be making $50,000 as a school teacher.
She would be like, what's your margin?
But I'm just saying though, it's like if, if I ask a young lady today, hey, what are some of your money goals today that you're working on? And she tells me, yeah, man, you know, I'm trying to invest 15% of my income. She has margin. I'm trying to save up for a house. Okay. She has margin, right? Or if she says, I mean, I don't really, you know, I don't really got no goal. Okay. So you, you ain't got no money, right?
Yeah.
And so for me, mindset, how people think around money can give you a ballpark of where they are with their money, right? And so, which goes back to what we said in the very beginning, if the young lady would've asked me, Well, when she asked me my credit score, that was on date one, and I told her the truth. If she would've came back with a second question—
Yeah, she would've been—
She would've been highly impressed.
Mm-hmm.
That, okay, wait. And then it would've started, I think, a conversation that probably would've been intriguing to her. 'Cause one thing we do know about ladies, and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause again, I'm still single for a reason, uh, but ladies love to learn something from the man who they're with.
Yeah, totally.
And so I could have taught her some things about why I have this philosophy of I want more money in the savings. She would've saw my goals and the vision that I have for my life and how a credit score to me just simply means that I know how to borrow money and pay it back.
Yeah.
But you don't know what my portfolio is with an 800 credit score. Mm-hmm. And so I think that when you're dating, man, have the questions around money because let's be honest, We talk about anything and everything else.
Mm-hmm.
So if we can talk about anything and everything else, why can't we talk about money?
Yeah.
And, uh, and, and I've, there's been several ladies that I've, I've respectfully walked away from just because we weren't aligned.
Yeah.
When it comes to the money thing.
I love that. Well, Anthony, this has been such an incredible conversation. Yes, ma'am. And it really has been. I end my show with two questions I ask all of my guests.
Okay.
The first one is, what is one actionable thing our young improfitters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?
Oh man, that's a good question. Um, make better decisions when it comes to your money. I believe that the caliber of our financial futures will be determined by the choices that we make today. So if you wanna make more money, be— become more profitable, sit back and look at what is a decision today that I can change that would change my tomorrow into my future.
So Anthony, what is your secret to profiting in life?
Uh, for me at this season of my life, um, every decision that I make now has to benefit my future tomorrow.
Hmm.
And so that's how I benefit in life and benefit in life does not mean I make more money. It means, does it get me closer to my freedom goal? And so if it does, I'm profiting.
That's beautiful. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast.
Thank you for having me. I gotta have you on my show now.
Oh, I'd love that. Yeah, fam, I love these money conversations because they're really never just about money. They're about freedom, peace, options, and ultimately the kind of life you get to create for yourself and the people that you care about. One of the biggest lessons from Anthony is that wealth is not just about how much money you make. It's not just about your your income. It's about how much margin you can create. He talked about how people spend every dollar that they earn trying to maintain a lifestyle they cannot actually afford. They're trying to impress people rather than focusing on their own financial structure. Real financial freedom comes from creating space between what you earn and what you spend. That's called margin. Margin gives you breathing room when life happens. It gives you an emergency fund, and it gives you the ability to act on opportunities when they come your way because you've got the investment to do that. The second lesson is that consumer debt is one of the biggest obstacles in building wealth. Anthony made a clear distinction between debt that helps you acquire appreciating assets and debt that funds temporary wants. Too many people are financing lifestyles that disappear long before the payment's due, like flexing on a vacation for Instagram.
The more money that goes towards debt payment, the less money you have available to invest, build, and create long-term security. And the third lesson is that wealth is not the end goal. The goal is not to be rich. The goal is to be free, free enough to give away as much as you want. Anthony's vision of financial success was much bigger than luxury status or having the nicest things. He talked about building enough wealth to take care of your family, give generously to your community and the causes that you care about, and leave a legacy that continues long after you're gone. That perspective shifts the entire purpose of money. It stops being about impressing people and starts being about serving people. And if you believe what me and Anthony do, the more that you give, the more that the universe will reward you as an entrepreneur. When you put all these lessons together, you realize that building wealth is not a math problem as much as a lifestyle decision. Create margin and lots of Eliminate unnecessary consumer debt, stop spending money just to impress people, and use money as a tool. Do that consistently and your financial future can look very different in a few years.
Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting. If you know somebody who earns well but still feels financially trapped, share this episode with them. Anthony flew in all the way to Austin for this interview, so make sure you check us out in the flesh on YouTube or Spotify Video. You can also check out his new book, Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck, to go deeper. As always, this is your host, Hala Taha, AKA the Podcast Princess, signing off.
Financial freedom felt out of reach for Anthony O’Neal at 19, when he was homeless and $35,000 in debt after spending money he didn’t have to look successful. Years later, he was earning six figures but lost his job with only $400 to his name, proving that even high earners can be broke if they lack financial literacy and money management skills. That realization pushed him to stop chasing the appearance of wealth, become debt-free, and build a career teaching others to take control of their finances. In this episode, Anthony shares how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, eliminate debt, create financial margin, and build a financially secure future.
In this episode, Hala and Anthony will discuss:
(00:00) Introduction
(00:00) Facing Homelessness and $35,000 in Debt
(07:20) Luxury Spending and Fake Wealth
(09:34) Credit Scores, Credit Cards, and Freedom
(18:03) How Anthony Finally Became Debt-Free
(25:10) How Big Is the Paycheck-to-Paycheck Problem?
(30:31) Budgeting and Building Financial Margin
(40:00) Protecting Personal Finances as an Entrepreneur
(44:52) Creating More Margin Through Entrepreneurship
(50:44) Generosity as a Wealth Principle
(55:16) Anthony’s Financial Escape Plan Explained
(1:11:17) Navigating Relationships, Prenups, and Finances
Anthony O'Neal is a personal finance expert, speaker, and host of the popular YouTube show and podcast, The Table with AO. A former Ramsey Solutions personality, he is known for helping young adults and entrepreneurs take control of their money through budgeting, saving, investing, and debt elimination. Anthony is also a national bestselling author, and his most recent book, Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck, is a guide on how to break free from debt, build real wealth, and live free on any income.
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Resources Mentioned:
Anthony's Website: anthonyoneal.com
Anthony's Instagram: instagram.com/anthonyoneal
Anthony's Book, Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck: bit.ly/-Paycheck2Paycheck
Anthony’s Book, Debt-Free Degree: bit.ly/-DebtFreeDegree
Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki: https://bit.ly/RichDad-RK
The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey: bit.ly/TTMoneyMakeover
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