Transcript of Julia Gets Wise with Patti LaBelle

Well, hi there. It's me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. We're back for season 3 of Wiser Than Me. We've got so much more wisdom to share from the magnificent Old Ladies featured this season. To celebrate the start of season 3, we've added some groovy new items to our Wiser Than Me merchandise collection. Head over to our merch shop to check out all of our great stuff, like a classic Wiser Than Me bagu tote bag, a kitchen tea towel with my Grandma Dee Dee's delicious peanut butter cookie recipe featured on it. And a brand new, gorgeous hardcover Wiser Than Me notebook to capture all of this season's bits of wisdom. Start shopping today by visiting wiserthanmeshop. Com.

Lemonada.

I'm not good at technical things. If it's digital, I can't do it, or really, I won't do it. I mean, I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot of stuff, but in the end, who really gives a shit? I get by just fine, thanks. Except for one thing, music. I love to listen to music. It's one of the three or four things I enjoy most in life. When I was in high school and college, we had a record player. A record player, remember those? Oh, my God. The hours and hours that I would listen to music. Slap Stevie Wonder's talking book on the turntable, place the needle on the record, music comes out of the speakers. Nothing to it. And then records died. Fine, whatever. Stick the Stevie Wonder CD in the thing, press play. I could do that. And look, I certainly don't want to be the, Well, back in my day, person person, especially on a show about how older women make such valuable contributions right now. But now it's all Spotify and Apple Music, and that's great when I've got my phone in my pocket and my ear things in. But what about when I want to dance around my kitchen?

What is washing dishes without Ray Charles blaring or Parliament funkadelec when you're making the bed? I can't make that happen. We have what the rest of my family claims is a very straightforward system that is utter and complete bullshit. But here I am, they say, with every song ever recorded. I think they're like 100 million songs on Spotify or something all right there at my fingertips. How often do I listen to music in my own home? If I'm alone, never. Seriously, I'm not kidding you, never. And what a giant loss that is. Our house used to be filled with music. I remember making cassette tapes of playlists when our kids were born. Oh, my God, music for nap time, music for waking up. Just music, music. Our house was full of music, and it made such an imprint on our boys. For example, our son, Henry, he started playing guitar in middle school, and when he was in high school, he was in a jazz band. So at Christmas, the school would have a holiday concert, and the jazz band played a song or two. It was so fantastic. And these were always instrumentals, right?

But at this concert, at the end, they bring out a microphone. Our Henry, in his little suit and tie, steps up to the microphone and he says, This is Tenderness by Paul Simon. Okay, look, we had no idea this was going to happen. He hadn't said anything, nothing. So the band plays that first chord. Do you know that song?

What can I do? What can I do?

And Henry starts to sing his version of that song. And it was shocking. I mean, we knew he could sing. He was in a good rock band. But this? What? We'd never heard him do this. It was It was like a complete transformation. It was transporting, and it came out of nowhere. It was like a movie. We were so astonished. And girls were, they were all screaming. Henry's voice was sailing up higher and higher because he has this gorgeous tenor voice. And his dad and I looked at each other, and we knew without a doubt that this guy was going to be a singer, a musician. And of course, that's exactly what he is. In fact, he writes the music for this podcast. Do yourself a favor and listen to him on Spotify, if you can figure out how to work it. Because seriously, he is just unusually good. I say that as a music critic, not as his mother. God damn it, I want to hear my own son's music on Spotify, loud in my kitchen. Okay, so this brings me back to my technical infirmities. Henry had a live show a couple of nights ago at a great venue here in Los Angeles called Zebulon.

I bought tickets online. When we got to Zebulon, I brought the tickets up on my phone, and I tried to get up the QR thing or whatever the fuck it is, and I can't do it. Of course, there are people behind us in the line, and the show's coming up, and I don't want to hold up the line. The nice kid at the box office offers to help me, Ma'am, he says. Oh, God. I see this very handsome young door guy watching this, and he's smiling. He's laughing a little bit at me, and I'm thinking, Oh, come on. What? I'm that lady. The one who can't figure out her own telephone, please. The world has passed me by. God damn it. But then the scanner went deep, and we went in, and the show started. And in 30 seconds, none of that mattered because the music was not just good, it was spectacular. And there I was doing one of the three or four things I love the most, listening to great music. And really, everything else fell away. Nothing else mattered. I was completely lost in it. Looking at my Henry on stage, I could see the direct line between his high school jazz band and this night, and I was completely happy because really, is there anything better than the simple pleasure of a good singer singing a good song, especially a singer you love with all your heart?

So how wonderful then that today we are talking to the great Patty Labelle. I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. In 1954, a very shy 10-year-old girl walked up to Buhla Baptist Church in West Philadelphia for the first time. So shy, in fact, that until that day, her mother had to convince her to go outside and play with other kids by paying her a quarter each time. But in that church, things started to change for her. Under the guidance of Ms. Harriet Chapman, her choir director, gospel songs began to fill her head. The solos came, standing ovations started to roll in, people saying, That girl sure can sing. Ms. Harriet told our guest, Never stop singing, Whatever you do, don't stop. And guess what? Patty La Belle is not stopping. You could right now go see Patti La Belle perform live where you'd hear her sing incredible hits like the original Lady Marmalade, On My Own and New Attitude. What you can expect at a Patti show is drama, shoes flying, and a damn good time. That personality on stage, that big voice, and 18 studio albums have rightfully earned her the title of the Godmother of Soul.

Beyond music, she's an accomplished entrepreneur, actress, and a New York Times bestselling author of several incredible cookbooks. She has transformed her culinary talent into a multimillion dollar empire with her brand Good Life, which includes her viral sweet potato pies. Mastering one craft is challenging enough, but my God, Patti LaBelle has mastered many. In 2023, she was named one of Forbes magazine's 50 Over 50. She's a Grammy winner, an NAACP Image Award winner, a Glad Media Award recipient, and an inductee into the Grammy Hall of Fame. Yet the accolades she has received are not for her alone. A core part of who Patty is involves helping others, and I can't wait to talk about that. Patty was one of the first recording artists to support AIDS causes in the '80s and '90s and is still a fierce advocate for gay rights. Not to mention her band La Belle, performed in the gay Bathhouse Circuit, the same that launched Bett Midler and Barry Manilow in the '70s. Most recently, she launched a consulting firm called Zee Paak, dedicated to assisting BIPOC and women-owned food businesses in getting their products onto the shelves of big box retailers. She is taking what she has learned and is helping others succeed, a positive force, force, all caps, in a troubled and so often negative time.

And that is why I am deeply thrilled to be talking today to an icon, a mother, a grandmother, an entrepreneur who is so much wiser than me, Patty Labelle. Patty, you're giving me goosebumps. Just talking about this is giving me goosebumps, for real.

Oh, thank you so much, Joy. It's giving me goosebumps talking to you.

It's a delight. Thank you. Thank you. So Patty, Patty, are you comfortable if I ask your real age?

I'm 80. You're 80. Eighty and happy. Yeah, a good 80.

How old do you feel, Patty?

I feel 30.

You do?

Yes, I feel 30. And the 80 is working. It's working. I've never been ashamed of saying my graduation whenever I turn 75, that's a graduation. I graduate each day in age, which some ladies and men are afraid to say how old they are. And my sisters all died in the early '40s. So whenever I made 50, I knew I had graduated. Every other year was just like putting on another year that they didn't make it. So I'm honored to be 80.

Oh, boy, is that something? I was going to ask you what's the best part about being your age, but you just answered it. I love the idea of thinking of aging as graduating. That's so cool because it implies what you've learned. It implies an education, doesn't it?

Oh, it does. A true education. I have learned at every age something great and something that you say to yourself, Well, maybe because my family died young, I might not make it to 70. And I did. And I'm 80 and still striving and still realizing it's a blessing.

And now here you are. And I have to say for our listeners, looking positively exquisite. Patty's wearing this gorgeous white top with a multiple strands of pearls. And honestly, short bob haircut, you look divine.

Thank you, Julia.

So this year, you celebrated your 80th birthday, and I understand your son, Zuri, surprised you. And you said you're really hard to surprise. I can't believe the pictures I saw from your party. That was a crazy party. I need to know details about it. How did you know what to wear? How did he get you there without you knowing?

I knew at 80, I was going to have a big, big party. So my friend Zang Toy made a beautiful dress for me. Before, I knew where the party would be or any details, but I knew I had to celebrate with a beautiful dress. So I got the dress and I kept saying to my son, Why don't you just tell me? He said, Tell you what? I said, Just tell me where it's going to be because I know it's going to be. So then he told me this big story one day about I had to get dressed because we were having a meeting with Walmart. I said, Since when do I have to get dressed, dressed up for a meeting with Walmart? But I did.

Wait a minute. Were you suspicious or did you buy into it?

Of course. No, I was suspicious because I knew he was lying. I knew it wasn't going to be a with Walmart. But because I am who I am, I got dressed and put on that beautiful blue dress and said, Let me let him think that I don't know any better. And then we went to the party. It was in New York because I live in off you. And so I knew it was going to be a fabulous night. And when I walked in the door, all my friends were there. Oh, God. Everybody that I loved in show business, from back in the day, friends that I hadn't seen in 20 years. Just so many wonderful people who enjoyed celebrating with Patty Patty.

Oh, that's so good. I love it. You tour 8-11 months out of the year. Is that still the case?

Oh, yeah. I tour all the time. A lot of people think that I've stopped singing. I said, Oh, no, Google me, honey. I'm on tour a lot.

Can you just talk about the realities of keeping your voice in shape? What is your routine?

I have no routine to keep my voice in shape. What? No routine. No, not at all.

Stop it. Don't you drink tea or anything?

Do you warm up? I don't drink tea. No, I don't warm up either. I think I'm a bad person to not- No, you're not. Do the things that most singers do. I just wake up and I could sing perfectly in the morning at 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning. So that's a blessing. And I've never done to make this happen. I've never had lessons. I'm just whatever I am.

Do you have perfect pitch?

I have perfect pitch. You do? Yes. Thank God. That is so cool.

You've had so many wonderful and deep friendships with people that we know as icons, like Prince and Mick Jagger and Nina Simone. And one through You lying through all of this is that you have, in addition to knowing them as artists and being with them as artists, you've cooked meals for them.

I've cooked for so many. Richard Pryer for, of course, the Rolling Stones, Elton John was my piano player back in the day. Yes. And so his band would come to my flat after the shows, and we would play cards for money. And they lost every time. They didn't have any pounds, no pounds. So I went all the pounds and sent them home with Tupperware with food every night. We played because they couldn't afford food. So here's the story with Elton. Tell. So we were buddies, buddies, buddies. And so he called me one night and said, Hello, Patty. I'm not going to do his accent because I can't. He said, Hello, Patty. I said, Yeah. He said, This is me Elton. No, Reggie. I said Reggie because he was Reggie Dwight. His band was Bluesology, I think. And he was Reggie at that time. He was not Elton John.

Was that he was born Reggie? Was that his birth name? Yes.

And so he called me and said, Patty, it's Reggie. I said, Oh, hey, Reggie. He said, I want you to come to my show tonight. I said, A show? Where? He said, At the Spectrum in Philadelphia. So I said, Oh, who are you opening for? He said, I'm Elton John now. I said, You have a... Did I tell him some bad things? I said, You made it before me, honey. Yes. And it was just a beautiful moment. And so later we recorded together in Vegas when he did the Red Piano Show in Vegas. And we recorded a duet together. And after this song was done, he had taken his rings off. I said, So here are your rings, Elton. And he said, No, that's for your Tupperware that you gave me back in the day. So he paid me with a beautiful ring.

Oh, my goodness. Do you still have I have that ring?

I have it upstairs in my box.

Yes. Dying to see what that ring looks like.

I'm keeping that ring.

Of course you are.

Do you know where that ring is, Kim? I could show you.

Would you show me?

Could you get it? Sure. I would love to see it. I'll show you. It's so beautiful. It's so manly, so I never wear it, but I have it.

But it's so meaningful. And the story behind it, because what he did was you made food for him, but then he kept the Tupperware and he didn't return it. And And that bugged you, right?

It's because I love to get my shopping bags if I give you food and my Tupperware back.

Well, I understand that. It makes sense. It's rude not to give it back.

I love my Tupperware and my shopping bag, good shopping Yeah, so he did pay me back that day at Caesar's when we were recording. After the recording session, he gave me the ring that he had taken off to play the song, and he's a good friend. I have so many friends in this business, a prince, who wanted me to cook for him, so he took me to his home, and they went grocery shopping for me, his people. When I made about eight items or more. The only thing he ate were the biscuits.

Was he not a big eater? What's the deal? Well, he was a small man.

He was small, so he made me cook all that food, and he ate a biscuit. I said, What's up? He said, That's all I wanted. I just wanted see you cook. Oh, my God. And then he took me to his... It was a disco, a club. Before that, he had outfits made for me at his studio because he had a tailor shop in his building.

Is this in Minneapolis?

In Minneapolis. Listen, he had four outfits made for me. Then I cooked for him that day. Then that night, he took me to the club, and we danced, and we drove in the Alphabet car. You remember the Alphabet car?

Sure, I do.

So many wonderful memories with those guys.

Did you enjoy collaborating with him, in particular as an artist? Was it an elevated experience, Patty?

It was more than that. The thing is, sometimes producers make you record a song like 20, 30, 40, 50 times for that one song. When we did our song, You'll Missed her, he said, That's it, on the first take.

No way.

He did not want a second take, he said, because the first take was magic. I appreciate that so much because sometimes you get in a studio and they make you work, work, work, work. When you think you had it in the first five takes, and sometimes you'll continue to record, continue it. And then they end up using maybe the first or the second. But Prince knew he wanted that one take.

Isn't that fascinating? I mean, he was an artist. He was a true artist. Oh, boy. Here comes the ring. Here comes the ring. Oh, my gosh. Oh, it's beautiful. It's a diamond ring, and it looks like it has a cross on it, right? Yes. Like four different crosses. It looks like it's Pave diamond, right? Yes.

It's so heavy and just so beautiful.

It's heavy, but it's beautiful. Patty, I have to tell you something. I think you can get away with wearing that. I don't think that looks too manly on your hand at all.

It doesn't really fit on the fingers that... This finger is too small. This one, it's big on it. It's It's a big ring. It's a little too big for my fingers, and it doesn't fit on this one.

Well, you could have it sized, Patty. I'm just telling you, I'm in favor of you wearing that ring. I love it.

You're in favor of me wearing it? Well, I'll get it fitted.

Get it fitted.

I will, yes. So I still have your ring, Elton. I have it.

That's beautiful. Thank you. That is beautiful. And I love that story about Prince, too. And I understand that you travel. I mean, you're such a cook and you love to cook so much, you travel with spices. What are the spices you travel with? You must have very specific ones.

Oh, my gosh. In season, I travel with habanero peppers because they're the hottest. Monkey peppers, bird peppers, anything that's hot Jalapeños are not so hot, but the habaneros are- Crazy. Blazing hot. So I carry those. I carry fresh garlic. I carry certain sea salts and grapeseed oil. I travel with.

Oh, interesting.

And when we get to the town, we'll find a farmer's market to get the fish and fresh foods, fresh meats, and fresh vegetables. I make sure I have those, and I carry my pots and pans on the road.

And so if you're going to a farmer's market, and I'm going off topic here, but I'm so interested to know. Go ahead. When you're going to a farmer's market like that in whatever town you're in, I'm assuming you're maybe making things up as you go along because you don't know what you're going to come across at the farmer's market, right?

Never know. No, you never know. You never know. So I'm very spontaneous when it comes to cooking and having to go to a store. If they don't have what I really need, I'll find it. And if not, I'll improvise.

I love that. I love that. I wish you lived close to me because I have a huge Serrano chili plant right now. It has a lot of chillies on it, and I don't need to eat a lot of those. I would be so happy to send them your way.

Well, send them to me whenever. We'll get them.

It's time to take a quick break. We'll be back with Patti LaBelle in just a few moments. Staying on task with a million windows open on your computer is practically impossible. By the time you've answered 10 emails, another hundred have piled up. And let's not even get started on the endless tabs from your internet search rabbit holes. Listen, we know your time and expertise are valuable. And with professionals spending nearly half the work week on written communication, focus is one of the most important things to have at work. With Grammarly as your writing partner, you can stay focused and get through your work faster with relevant real-time suggestions whenever you write. Grammarly helps with any writing, from brainstorming to sounding more confident and persuasive at work. In fact, 90% of professionals say Grammarly has saved them time writing and editing their work. Plus, it works seamlessly with the apps you use every day. Get more done with Grammarly. Download Grammarly for free at grammerly. Com. Grammarly. Com/podcast. That's Grammarly. Com/podcast. Certainly, you've taken a lot of pictures with your kids and family this year. Holidays, first day of school, vacations, and all those little moments in between.

Here's Here's the thing. Even with all those great shots, sharing them with the whole family can be a hassle. It can feel like a lot to manage. Fortunately, there's an easy way to share all those memories without flooding their inbox. Named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter, Aura frames are incredibly smart and easy to use, allowing you to upload unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. Plus, you can order the frame online and preload it with photos and videos using the Aura app, so it's ready to go right out of box. Let's be honest, what most people really want for the holidays is to see their favorite people more often. That's why this year, the best gift you can give, besides plane tickets, is an Aura digital picture frame. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes. Com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carver Mat frames by using promo code Wiser at checkout. That's auraframes. Com promo code Wiser. This deal is exclusive to listeners, So get yours now in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions apply. I know we're all so excited to find the perfect gifts for the people we love.

There's nothing like seeing your adult child light up because you finally nailed it and surprise them with exactly what they wanted. Macy's Friends and Family sale is here to help make that magic happen. From December fourth through December 12th, take an extra 30% off top gifts and 15% off the best beauty brands. They've got something for everyone. Ugg Boots, advent calendars, nest candles, crocs. Who knew those were going to be such a big hit? They also have these incredible dry bar travel kits, skin gym, LED masks, and stocking stuffers galore. With the holidays right around the corner, now is the time to dig into your holiday shopping and find those perfect guests for your loved ones, and for a great price, too, all at the Macy's Friends & Family sale. Don't miss out on Macy's biggest offer of the season. Save big and enjoy free shipping orders over $25. Whether you're shopping for loved ones or treating yourself, now is the time to snag those perfect holiday fines. With deals this good, why wait? Visit macys. Com and make this holiday season the easiest and most stylish one yet. So you grew up as the second youngest of five children, correct?

Yes. And as I said before, you were very shy. But now, look at you. You have this huge social light life.

Yes.

When did you grow out of that? What was this evolution for you?

I don't remember how old I was when I became not so shy, but it was so bad. My mother would pay me a quarter to go out and play with kids. And the quarter wore out, and I wore out with people. So I said, I'm coming back home. I was just too shy to deal with people. Of course, that changed in years because now I'm around so many wonderful people and so many things that I do now include people. So I was just born a shy girl.

Do you ever feel that shyness coming back, Patty?

Yes. Every now and then it comes back.

And how do you manage it? And tell me how it comes back. I'm so curious.

It comes back at moments, and I can't explain why it comes back at times. But when it does, it leaves quickly because I can't handle it. I know that I have to be out of that shy state to do what I do. Before we go on stage, we pray. And when I see the audience, that brings me back to not being so shy because they're so giving.

So you feel the energy from the audience?

I feel the energy from the audience. And when you go out, you never know what audience you're going to have. You don't know if they've never seen you before, if they're trying to say, Okay, we're going to give this check a try. And then when I get out, one of the things that I say in the middle of the show, How many people are seeing me for the first time? And maybe 80% of the audience raise their hand. And so then I said, Well, fasten your seatbelts because it's going to be a bumpy ride. And I hope you will come back to see me once you see me tonight.

I love that you take the energy and it lifts you up. It's like arms outstretcheded to you, and I think that's phenomenal. So Patty, going back to your musical beginnings, your older brother introduced you to jazz, right?

Yes. He was a Nina Simone, James Moody fanatic. And I learned to love jazz because of him. Right.

And then I'm jumping ahead here, but then you got to know Nina Simone personally, didn't you?

She was my good friend. Yes. We would talk maybe once every two weeks. She was just a wonderful friend. And we talked about food. She talked about everything with me.

What What did you learn from her? What did you learn from Nina Simone?

Well, there was a time where we were doing a show at Carnegie Hall with Sting, Elton. Oh, my God. A few wonderful people. And she was with me, and I asked for a glass of wine, and they brought it to me in a plastic cup. She said, Oh, no, darling, you never drink out of plastic. Crystal only. Crystal only. She She was just like a teacher.

But that can't be the only thing you learn from her to drink out of Crystal.

Her music. She was one of a kind. She was way ahead of most people. For the rights of the right people. That's right. I learned that I just stayed with her whenever she would call or I would call her. And it was just like mother lessons, that she was just- Mother Her lessons. Yeah, just her. Her period was a blessing to me. I can just say she was like one of my better friends in life. Not just musically, just life, things that happen in life. And just a strong, strong woman she was.

And I believe you cook for her, too, particularly at the end of her life.

I did. I think we were at the London Hotel in New York. I can't remember the name of the hotel. We were staying at the same hotel because we were doing the Carnegie Hall show. Yes. And she was in my hotel. And so she called me and said, Patty, what are you doing? So I said, I'm making lunch. And so she said, What are you making? I said, I'm making hot sausage. I mean, they were really hot from the Farmer's Market in Philly. I brought them with me to New York. And she said, I would like one. And so I went up to her room and she was there in her way of being at that time. And my friend Norma, who does my hair, came up with me. She said, No, no, not Norma, just you. So I went in and gave her the hot sausage, and she just showed me what she was going through. It was very personal. And she just opened up to me. And when she ate it, I said, Now you're going to need a lot of water to go after that hot, hot. So she said, after she finished, she said, Go make me another one.

And they They were on fire. I said, Oh, you're my girl. Yeah. So we had quite great personal moments just as a friend.

That's just so beautiful. So you had three sisters. What was the dynamic like between you and your sisters when you were growing up?

Oh, God. The dynamic with my sisters, we fought. You did. We loved, we hugged. We had issues with crabs, hardshelled crabs.

When What do you mean issues?

Issues because we all loved hard shell crabs, male crabs, the gigantic ones. So we would get bushels of crabs on the weekend. And so whenever they were cooked, I would go in the pot first and take the bigger ones. And my sisters would hate me for this. Why don't you always have to get the big ones? And they would say a few curse words to me. I said, Because I can. So we would have fights about my taking the big crabs. And It always ended up that I got the bigger ones because I was a picker. I knew how to get in that pot and pick before they got in the kitchen. Just crazy things. But we loved each other, but we fought like sisters.

They were very fashionable, too, I understand. Vivian, right? Your sisters, weren't they?

I used to wear my sister's Vivian. When she went to work, I would get her clothes and wear them to school. She would come back and say, Somebody's been in my clothes, because I never put them back properly. So, yeah, we had fights about that, but she was a dressing woman. Yes. Really? Yes, she knew how to dress.

Maybe you got a sense of fashion from her because actually, your outfits when you were with Labelle, those outfits were completely ahead of their time, don't you think?

Oh, God. They were ahead of time. Yes, they were.

They really were. I think I even heard you say we were Lady Gaga before there was Lady Gaga, the way you would come out and present yourselves, right?

We were Gaga and Madonna before they were. Kiss, the group. They wanted to dress like our outfits. So they got in touch with our designer, Larry Legaspi, and said, We want to have some things like La Belle. And so he made things for them. It was such a compliment. It was a compliment when Gaga or Madonna, like Sarah Dash, were the beautiful silver breast plates, Madonna wore them, and it was after they saw Sarah with them. And it was so many compliments thrown our way because we did it first.

Yes, of course. In your memoir, you talk about having low self-esteem as a child, which we discussed, and you didn't consider yourself beautiful, which I find astounding, by the way, because you are truly a beauty.

Well, thank you. I never saw myself as beautiful. I I saw myself as a real woman, looking the way I look, not wanting to make any difference on my face. But I did. I had a nose job, and that didn't make me any prettier. It just took away some of the Some of the nos. But I've learned lately that it doesn't really matter what you look like. It doesn't. I dress up and get made up and haired up for the shows because I'm in show business. But if not, I'll be just like, right now, I'm not really basically made, made up or haired up. I'm Julia upped. So this is quiet.

If this is quiet, I mean, honestly, I think you look spectacular. You could go to the Academy Awards looking the way you do right now. Thank you, honey. But what do you mean that you learned it lately? You said, I learned lately that what you look like doesn't really matter.

Because Because I realized what I am inside, I am a person with a good heart. And the makeup and the hair is not going to make me a better person. It's not going to make me a better person. As I've gotten older, I've realized that that does not make me. That doesn't make me. As long as I can sing and perform and make somebody happy, that's good. Sometimes I say I could just do it with a pair of jeans, not with an awesome costume or something, because they came to see Patti LaBelle. They didn't come to see the costume. Although I'm a dress and drag queen, I do dress up. I do, I do, I do. And it feels good. But I realized that we can't put all that emphasis on how we look all the time.

Yeah, it can be exhausting, right? It is exhausting. And you have this musical instrument, and that blessing is the one that, I mean, let's face it.

That's my life.

That's your life.

The music is my life. That is your life. Yes.

When you were with the Bluebells, the group was you, Sarah Dash, Nona Hendrix, and Cindy Bird's song, and then Cindy left, right?

Cindy left to go with the Supremes.

To join the Supremes in '67. . At the time that that happened, did that shake your confidence?

When it happened, it shook my confidence because it happened. It did. Was not knowledge of our group that she was leaving to go with the Supremes. We were performing in Cleveland, I think, and we were waiting for her to come down, and she never came down to go to the dressing room. And so somehow we found out. I think it was the next night that she had joined the Supremes.

You didn't even find out from her. You just found it out from some other way.

We found out at the time I don't remember exactly how, but it wasn't from Cindy. No, she did not call us. I just felt so betrayed and just so sad. Sure. And then I thought about it. I said, maybe if I were in her position and one of the best-selling female groups asked me to join them, I might have said yes because they were making much more money than we were. Yes. I understood her reasoning after a while, and then I prayed for her and I said, Wish you the best of luck. So I had to take it, and I had to not dislike her for that.

Yeah, it's just the way she went about it maybe was a mistake on her part.

It was the way that it was done, yes. Yeah.

Have you had conversations with her subsequently and come to a peaceful place?

I've had conversations with her and Diana. So it was something that, at the time, Diana wanted to do, and Barry Gordy or whoever they wanted to replace Florence Ballard. She was very close to looking like Florence Ballard and sounding like Florence Ballard. I see. After a while, I realized that they did what they had to do. I did what I had to do, and that was to keep on keeping on.

Keep on keeping on.

Yeah, I couldn't hold that anger. I couldn't hold it any longer.

Yeah, because it'll eat you up.

Yes. And since then, we've talked. Diana and I have talked. We're friends. Good. So there's no hard feelings at this time. So it's a done deal.

That's a done deal. That's finished now. You started going to therapy. I think you did. Yes. Around the time that Cindy left the group. Is that right?

No, I went to therapy after the group broke up. Oh, after the group broke up? Yes. Okay. With me, Sarah and Nona, when we broke up as a group, I didn't want to be blamed as the one who left the group. I didn't want to be... Sometimes they said Diana Ross was the reason they broke up, the Supremes or whatever. I didn't want it to be said that Patti LaBelle broke the group up. I see. So I had to go to therapy because it was hard for me to go out on that stage some night solo without them. But the reason we broke up is because the three of us wanted to do different music. Sure. And so to stay together as a group, we'd be lying to the public. So we had to make that move. And like I said, we're still talking yesterday, me and Nona. We lost Sarah, which is so sad. But we're still the best of friends. But at that time, I needed help. I needed a shrink.

Yeah, I get it. I think endings are very difficult. They can be really difficult for me, too. I mean, not that I had a fabulous girl group, but when jobs end Particularly long-standing jobs, that can be a ground shift, can't it?

It's scary.

It's scary. It's totally scary.

Because you don't know who's going to blame you for the breakup. At that time, I didn't know.

Yeah, but also, it's like, who am I without that?

It's so many things. So many things. So many things go through your mind. Right. And so you have to deal with it. And my way of dealing was to see somebody. I had to get help. Yeah. Yeah.

Smart. There's much more with Patti LaBelle after this break. Don't go anywhere. By now, almost everyone knows about Airbnb. You can use them to book incredible stays and interesting homes and cultivated spaces. And even better, you can actually offer your space on Airbnb, becoming an official Airbnb host. Millions of people host on Airbnb, sharing their space with guests who are so excited to stay there. You might be planning to travel for a few weeks out of the year. It might just be for a few days or for a long weekend, or perhaps it's a couple of weeks away for a family reunion. Think about those times away and picture listing your space on Airbnb. It could be an opportunity for you to turn those situations into a practical and even profitable one. You might be thinking My place couldn't be an Airbnb, but that's not true. If you're concerned about the time commitment, you could give it one try and see how it goes. It's a practical way to keep using the space even when you're not there. So if you're curious about hosting on Airbnb, find out how much your space could be worth by visiting airbnb.

Com/host. It could be the start of a whole new chapter for your home. Go to airbnb. Com/host. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find Find out how much at airbnb. Com/host. The holidays are all about escaping the grind and being with the people who matter most. Sure, there's the last minute shopping and chaos that comes with it, but that's what makes it all so special. No work distractions, just good times, and making memories with the ones you love. But if you're feeling a little anxious about gift giving, you're not alone. Brooklyn makes gifting easy with endless product options that everyone on your list will love, from their Mulberry silk bundle, which includes the softest possible silk pillowcase and eye mask, to their super plush robe with stripes. There is something for everyone. Every product is made of the most luxurious materials, and that's because they partner with top caliber factories to bring you super high-quality products that have been tested and awarded by experts. Brooklyn and sheets are truly tried and true with more than 200,000 five-star reviews and millions of happy customers. There's really nothing like the pleasure and relaxation of laying down onto soft smooth sheets.

Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online at brooklyn. Com. That's brooklyn. Com. Get 15% off your first order Today. If you're looking to stock up on some of the hottest new athlete wear, you need Viore. Inspired by the coastal California lifestyle, Viory creates products that not only stand the test of time, but also inspire us to live vibrant, healthy lives. Their clothes look great, both inside and outside the gym, making them perfect for any activity or just lounging around. There's so much to love, but we'd love to highlight the women's performance jogger made with Viori's signature dream knit fabric. This material is beyond soft. It's a huge part of why Viori is so universally beloved. It stretches as you move and seamlessly mixes and matches across styles to make it the easiest dreamiest thing in your closet. Another must have is the Women's Daily legging, featuring the breathe interlock performance stretch knit fabric. These leggings have a high waist with a tunnel draw string tie and cuffed ankles, ensuring a no slip fit. It's a brand new perspective on leggings, and we are so, so grateful for it. Viori is an investment in your happiness.

For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viori. Com/visor. That's V-U-O-R-I. Com/visor. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any US orders over $75 and free returns. Go to veauri. Com/visor and discover the versatility of Viory clothing. Wiser Than Me Season 3 is available ad-free when subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll also get access to exclusive interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now in the Apple podcast app. Patty, what was it like earlier in your career touring in the south? Because on one hand, you're building up this fan base and a name for yourself, but on the other hand, it's the height of Jim Crow.

Yeah, it was bad. We traveled in a station wagon. Throughout the south, and there were times when we couldn't get a hotel, so we stayed in the station wagon. We would buy our tuna and chocolate candy bars and whatever and just stay in the station wagon because there were no hotels that were going to really let us board. In the South, there were some Black hotels that we were fine, but we were not allowed to dwell in the White hotels. So we spent a lot of time in the wagon, and we realized that for us, that was all there was. And so you take it or you leave it. You fight it or you settle. So we had to settle because we couldn't change the laws. And it didn't take anything away from us as far as our performance. We still worked. But you really have to know that there was a big difference in white acts and black acts. What it did for us was just grew us up.

Yeah, I bet. Really quickly. It did. Really quickly.

It grew us up. So when we did our thing, we did it with knowing that there was going to be a lot of rejection, and you live with it or you fight it. It made us stronger. That's what I'm saying. Every lesson wasn't a negative ending.

Yes.

Every lesson that we dealt with grew us up and realized that we're not going to be treated the way we want to be treated all the time. So the way you're treated is the way you're going to live with and the way you're going to expect. And then when it changes, that's like a big old rose. Oh, it wasn't so bad that night. But That wasn't often. So we did that, and we did it knowing what we're going to go into. We knew it was going to be great all the time.

And you must have formed a bond with those women like no other, right?

We created this love for each other that we weren't going to get from most people traveling. So we just grew to hold on to each other and to make each other laugh and play jokes on each other and just have fun. Because what we had to do to get there wasn't always great. Right.

Wow. God, I mean, you've nurtured relationships with so many artists like Jennifer Hudson and Fantasia. God, I love Fantasia. And Mariah Carey. And you said that you didn't want them to make the same mistakes you made. What are some of the important lessons that you've learned in your life that you shared with them?

Of course, I share with all of them what we went through at beginning of our careers, Patty LaBelle and the Blue Bells, the things that we went through in the South, the things that we took for granted would come for us, and it never did. But you tell all these. I talked to them, Fantasia, Jennifer, Mariah, like you said, all my little girls. And they will call me every now and then for information, for just some something that I've gone through that they might be going through. Interesting. And so I'm like a godmother.

Yeah.

Godmother. Yeah.

And you've always been very... I mean, you've had an incredible eye for spotting talent, right? Like Luther Vandross, by the way. Oh, yes. And Elton John.

And Elton John, yeah. It's Luther was our first fan club President, but he would come to the Apollo Theater with clothes for us. So I said, Oh, who is this man with all these gowns? He had four gowns. They were pink and gray, beautiful gowns. And so, of course, he had all of our sizes and everything. Really? And so I said, Well, what else do you do other than bring clothes? He said, I sing. I said, Oh, really? And so I said, Sing. And he I said, Honey, you shouldn't be pelt in these clothes. You should have a microphone and go out and make yourself a living with your voice. And then we became good friends, and he became our first-rand club president.

And then did he launch his own career after that?

Yeah, because he was singing a lot, backgrounds with different people at the time, I think that we met him. I'm not sure. But he ended up making his own life the best life for him, singing not background, but singing lead.

Yeah, of course. I'm so struck by your generosity. Who modeled all this generosity for you? Who was generous with you the way you are so generous with others?

My mother. Yes. And my father. Yes. They were very giving people. Yes. And my sisters were also very, very much givers. I took a lot of that from them.

Hey, Listen, when the Nightbird came out in 1974, right? And that was the first huge, big hit album for you guys. And the lead single was Lady Marmalade. I have to tell you something. That is such a formative tune, as it is for millions of people. But I was 13 when that song came out, and I couldn't believe that song. It was so sexy. I used to sing that, and you could sing it because it was in French, so you could get away with it. I just remember feeling so like, what's the word? Like a rebel singing that tune loud in my house, you know what I mean? Along with you guys. Did you know it was going It was going to be a hit.

I knew it was going to be a hit, but I didn't know what Willy Ruegouché of A Gua meant.

Get out of town.

I'm serious, honey. I had no clue it meant, Will You Sleep With Me Tonight? So when we heard it, when we went to Alan Toussaint to record Nightbird, I said, Let's make this our first song to record for this album.

As the song was recorded, we knew it was a hit.

And after it was out, we had some interesting people saying, Wow, why are they singing about a hooker? It was nuns talking about, Oh, that group is not nice. We're singing about hookers. I had no clue what Vulnerou meant. And so we- Amazing. We got a little A little moment.

A little blowback for that? A little bit. Yeah. Who cares?

But we continued to sing it. Yeah. Like I said, a lady marmelade hooker is a hooker. I'm not, but I'm singing it. Yes. So it was a very interesting song.

Yeah, it's a great song. It's incredible. La Belle did the gay Bathhouse Circuit, right? Oh, yes. And also the first Black group to play Metropolitan Opera House, which is incredible. I saw that poster. I just thought that poster for that show is so beautiful. It's bananas.

Oh, gosh. We were at the Metropolitan Opera Opera House, the first Black group to play, and the show was called We're Something Silver. And so everybody came with silver outfits. The cycle sluts, they came. I don't know if Cher was there that night, but that's when I think I came from the ceiling, flying down, singing Nightbird. And we just had a crazy, wonderful night at the Metropolitan Opera House. And we did play the Bathhouses.

I know. You and Beth Midler did it.

Beth Midler. We did that. Oh, and guess what happened?

Tell me.

At the bath house.

What?

I went to the machine thinking it was bubble gum. Oh, no. And so we put money in it. It was condoms. They looked like bubble gum things falling out. I said, What the What the hell is this?

I hope you didn't put it in your mouth and try to chew it.

No, but it was Sarah, they laughed. They laughed so hard. Yeah, we were putting money in the machine getting bubble gum, I thought.

Did you get blowback for that, for playing in bathhouses?

Never did we get blowback for playing in bathhouses.

Good.

At least I don't know about it.

Right.

I don't think so.

But I mean, you have been so accepting of the gay community from way back in the day, and maybe at a time when it was not as widely acceptable to be gay, right? But you were.

Yeah, I have had a gay following from the beginning. Sarah, Nona, and myself, and Cindy, we had a gay following, which I take as a compliment Of course.

Yeah, without question. I think I have a gay following, too, by the way. I bet you do. I don't know how to make that determine. I'm being told that I do. Good. Yes. So we have that in common, and I'm grateful for Patty, I learned this fact about you that just blew me away. So here you are at the top of your game, but in your 40s, you used to say, Farewell to your fans after every show because you really believed you would not live beyond 50, right?

Because of all my sisters, yeah.

I thought- All your sisters.

That it wouldn't last long. Yes, I did.

And your friend Claudette, too, who passed away young. Yes, Claudette. Right. Patty, can you talk about living with that fear at the time of your mammoth success? Because they bump up against each other, don't they? The feeling of, I'm not going to make it, but you've made it at the same time as an artist.

Of course, you would think that. I mean, after I turned a certain age, I would say, Well, am I next?

Yeah.

As far as going through what my sisters went through. That's right. And when I turned At a certain age, I just said, Well, God is with me. When it's my turn, it's my time.

But is that when you turned 50, I think? Is that right?

After I turned 50, yes. And I just said every day, something could happen, and it didn't. It didn't. And I'm still standing. So I just thank God for all the time that I have and all the time that I have left.

But you had a lot of anxiety about it, and then all of a sudden it seems like that anxiety just- It left.

It left. It just left. Yes.

That's good.

The anxiety left. Yes, it did.

Maybe it was just the marker of getting past a certain age. I lost my sister, actually, and she was 44, if you can believe it.

Really? Oh, the same age as as mine.

I know. That's why I was so struck by that in your What did she pass from? She was just really ill. Oh. Yeah.

Sorry.

Yeah, really tragic. But it so upends your life because it's not the way the world is supposed to work. No, it's not. It's not the order of things. And that's why it's hard to... Well, that's why you're frightened.

That's why. It's natural. It's natural. Yeah.

It's natural because it doesn't feel It's natural to be frightened because it's so unnatural.

Unnatural. And never know when it's going to happen.

Exactly.

Right. Well, I'm sorry.

Thank you. I'm sorry for you, too. Thank you. I'm sorry for you, too.

Thank you.

You've been very open about when your sister, Jackie, passed away, and you've come to terms with what? Do you mind talking about that right now?

Well, she wanted me to prepare her lunch, an egg sandwich, fried egg sandwich, because I made great sandwiches. And she was around the corner at the hospital where I lived at the time I moved since then. And my aunt was at the hospital with her. And so that's the day I had gotten back from touring. And so I was tired. I said, Can I make it tomorrow? And she said, Yes. And tomorrow comes and my aunt calls and says, Your sister's gone.

Oh, God.

So I didn't get a chance. Yeah. That's not good.

No, but you've forgiven your sofa that, and she knows that you love her. Doesn't she, Patty? Tissue.

Yes, she knew it.

She knew it. Yeah, she knew it. Yeah.

But you just think about things you didn't do.

Right. But isn't that always the case? When you lose people you love, there are- Things that you said you could have done. Yeah, of course. Believe me. And I say the same thing, believe me, with my own sister. But at the end of the day, you were- At the end of the day, I realized that she was my love.

Yes.

Yeah.

I'm sorry for crying.

No, that's okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make you cry.

No, it's just the way it is.

And now you feel I believe, I hope that you have peace about it, about that.

I do. It's hard to talk about. I think I can talk about it. Then I realize I really can't.

Yeah, it catches you. It's like being a hit from behind or something. Yeah, I understand that.

Yes.

Well, Patty, is there something that you would go back and tell yourself at age 21 At age 21?

At age 21, I would have said to myself, Don't be so afraid. Don't be so shy. Don't be so scared. Not scared, but scared. Don't be so scared. Just know that your life is going to turn out all right. And I have lived to see that. Yeah, you have. That I'm all right.

Yeah, you're all right.

Yes, baby.

Is there something you would go back and say yes to?

That's a good question. That I could think of? No.

Really?

No.

You've said yes to everything you wanted to say yes to.

I wanted to say yes to.

I love that.

Because everything that I say yes to made me feel good, and it was age-appropriate yeses.

Yes. Is there something you're looking forward to?

More life.

Yeah. I was going to say graduating to '81, perhaps.

Graduating. Yeah, my graduation, '81.

Your graduation in May because you're a Gemini, correct?

May 24th.

Nice. Is there something that you would like to tell me about aging, Patty?

Just don't be afraid of it. Don't be afraid of turning whatever you're going to turn to be older. Some people live to be nervous about turning certain ages. Don't. Just accept it. You made it. So don't be afraid of life.

Yeah. And that seems like a really lived thing for you, Patty. I mean, you are actually scared to turn certain ages, and you aren't anymore. It's good advice. Is there something you wish that you'd spent less time on, Patty?

No.

See, I think you've had the perfect life.

I can't say that I've had the perfect life, Julia. I could say that I've had a nice life, and a life that I don't regret.

But I call that a perfect life, a nice life that you don't regret. You know, not a lot of people can say that. Patty Mabel.

I know. I know it.

A lot of people are- And you can say it.

Yeah, I can say it and mean it.

Yeah. Oh, my God. It's been such a delight to talk with you. You are just the most wonderful human being.

I had a feeling that it would be like this with you and I, and I'm so pleased to have spoken with you. And thank you so much, honey.

Oh, wow. Wow. What a life Patti LaBelle has lived. Okay, let's get my mom on the Zoom. Can't wait to talk to her about this conversation. Hi, mommy. I have to turn your audio on.

Yeah.

What's the problem?

I've got Garrison Keeler on, and I can't turn him off.

On your phone?

I think my voice is coming from.

Okay, so it's just playing. You don't know why. Do you want to just turn your phone off?

Yeah.

Garrison Keeler, once again, ruining the podcast.

Okay, all gone.

Nice. I love it. Hi, mommy. Hi, hi. So guess what? Today, we talk to Patti La Belle. Yes. The wonderful Patti La Belle. And remember, she had that big hit back in 1974. It was called Lady Marmalade, but the tune was, Voulez vous couchez avec moi, so soit. Do you remember that?

Oh, I do remember that. Yes, yes, yes.

And I used to sing that all the time because it was so naughty, of course. And I thought I was like, pushing the edge of the envelope.

You made me worry. I mean, my God, you were.

Yeah, I was. Will you sleep with me tonight? I mean, that was very dirty. Were there any dirty songs? Well, not like that, but what was considered dirty when you were growing up?

We used to do the exercises. We'd go, We must, we must, we must increase our bust. The boys, the boys, the boys depend on us.

I don't think that was a top 40 hit.

No, it wasn't. It didn't make it, but it was a good hometown thing. It was good in Columbus, Ohio. It made all the charts. I don't think there were any... We were such a quiet generation. I can't think of a single song that would bring a blush to anybody's Chic.

When I was in junior high, it was, We must, we must, we must increase our bust. The bigger, the better, the tighter, the sweater, the boys depend on us.

That's another one. Yes, that got complicated once it got eased.

Well, it's such an unfortunate rhyme on every level. Exactly. I hope we haven't brought it back into popularity I'm mentioning it on the show. I'm so sorry about that.

I know.

I am, too. I have huge regrets.

But back to Patti LaBelle.

Yes. She just turned 80 this past year, and her son threw us Through her surprise party with everybody she's ever worked with in her entire life, showed up to this party in New York, and it was a very big deal. But it reminds me of when mommy remember when I had the surprise party and you told me about it. Do you remember?

I know. That made me feel so bad. I'm so sorry.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't bring it up to make you feel bad. It's fine. It's a great family lore story.

I know. How did I tell it? Did it just slip out or did Did I- Yeah, it just slipped out, mom.

I think what was going to happen was Brad was going to take me away somewhere, if I'm remembering this correctly. You and Daddy had come to take care of the kids while we were going to go somewhere. We were about to leave, and you said something like, Well, see you in Santa Barbara later. Like that. Because That's where the surprise party was.

I know. Oh, dear. Did you pretend it was a surprise, or did you just say, I had ruined the whole thing, or how did you work that out? I can't remember.

Well, I knew something was going to happen, but I didn't know what the extent of it was. And you didn't know it would be there and everything. Yeah, exactly. I didn't know what it was going to unfold to be. So I was obviously surprised by that. And it was such a joyful occasion. It didn't really matter at all. And this all reminds me very much of Patti LaBelle, in fact, because she's somebody who's gone through a lot, but she's really, really happy in her life. She's very at ease with who she is. So I think she was definitely happy to be celebrated, as she should be. That thing of having a party, celebrating your life, and you get to sit back and look at it and assuming you're happy or relatively, not even just happy-happy, just reasonably happy with where you are, that's a lot to be celebrated. It. Of course it is.

It is for sure. And then to be singing, I mean, how wonderful, wonderful that she is still singing.

I know. It was an incredible honor to be able to talk to her, no doubt. All right, mommy. Well, so long. Oh, there's the front door. I have to go, mommy. I've got the gate guys here to fix the gate.

Oh, okay. Good, good, good. Well, I love you, and I'll see you soon.

Okay. I love you, love you. Thank you for talking with us. So happy to be here. Bye, mommy.

Love you. Bye. Bye.

There's more Wiser than me with Lemonada Premium on Apple. You can listen to every episode of Season 3, ad-free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple podcast app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at Wiser Than Me, and we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media, created and hosted by me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Peace, Jamila Zara-Williams, Alex McOwen, and Oja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer. Rachel Neil is VP of New Content, and our SVP of Weekly Content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplin, Stephanie Wittelswax, Jessica Kordova-Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Sparber. Our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel, and of course, my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcast.

If there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up.

Hey, Wiser Than Me listeners, we want to hear from you.

By just answering a few questions on our listener survey, you can share feedback about show content you'd like to see in the future and help us think about what brands would serve you best. And even better, once you've completed the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Visa gift card. The survey is short and sweet and will help us play ads you don't want to skip and keep bringing you content you love.

Just go to LemonadaMedia. Com/survey. Lemonadamedia. Com/survey..