Transcript of Ukraine's President Sits With NPR, Pope Leo Cancer, Ambassador Guilfoyle Forced Out

Ukraine's president tells NPR about a threat from the White House.

Stop attacking Russian oil refineries or we will stop sharing intelligence you use to defend yourself. We'll hear more from NPR's Joanna Kakissis' interview with Ukraine's president.

I'm Steve Inskeep, with Michelle Martin, and this is Up First from NPR News. Pope Leo is recovering from surgery after the Vatican announced he has lung cancer. Doctors Removed part of his right lung, and experts say operating first may be a hopeful sign.

And President Trump forced out his ambassador to Greece, Kimberly Guilfoyle, after reports that she asked a donor to cover her hefty credit card bill and offered access to administration officials. Democrats say a resignation isn't enough. What does her exit mean for Trump's future appointees? Stay with us, we'll give you news you need to start your day. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy tells NPR that the White House has threatened to cut off intelligence sharing with his country: Did we get any messages that it can be stopped if, if, if?

Yes?

Yeah.

Yes, my generals told me that we have such risk.

Here's what's happening: President Trump wants Ukraine to stop long-range drone strikes on Russian oil refineries. He blames Ukraine for high fuel costs, and he has lifted sanctions on Russian diesel. Zelenskyy says Ukraine has not received intelligence on Russian ballistic missile strikes over the last 2 nights.

NPR's Ukraine correspondent Joanna Kakissa spoke to President Zelenskyy in Kyiv on Tuesday and is with us now to tell us more about it. Hello.

Hello, Michelle.

So what did Zelenskyy tell you about why intelligence sharing is so important for Ukraine right now?

Well, President Zelenskyy said Russian ballistic missiles are hard for Ukraine's air defense to shoot down, so his military relies on intelligence, both Ukrainian and foreign, for advance warning. We talked about On Monday night, we both heard several big blasts.

And we had 5 ballistic missiles. The direction was Kyiv, Kyiv region. Yes, they targeted mostly railway, and we didn't get the information.

You did not get the information?

No, we didn't get the information about ballistic missiles. This is really our weak place.

He said his military was told it was a technical glitch. I asked him if it was the U.S. that was withholding intel, and he did not want to elaborate, saying it was a sensitive matter. He also said Ukraine has diversified its foreign intelligence sources after early 2025 when the Trump administration had paused sharing information with Kyiv.

We get from the United States very necessary information, but not only from the United States.

Now Zelenskyy says every bit of intelligence is important to Ukraine because stopping ballistic missiles is a priority.

And what kind of damage have they caused recently?

Well, Michelle, just in the past week or so, missiles have killed dozens of Ukrainians. Zelenskyy said he visited the He visited the northern city of Pryiutne last week where a missile killed more than 20 people in one apartment building. And he told me about this little girl wounded in the attack. Her dad was killed and she didn't know about it. As Zelensky visited the girl in the hospital, he recalled hugging her.

I said, can I do something for you? Yeah, bring back my father, because she, she was waiting.

She was waiting for her dad?

Yeah.

And you can't tell her, she doesn't know that he is he was killed. And you can't lie. And it's very difficult for me because I always know what to answer. And I couldn't find the answer to this small girl.

He says he feels the loss in every attack.

And he's also a father himself.

Yes, right.

So I'm sure he saw himself in that. So President Trump claimed last week that Russia and Ukraine agreed to stop at least some attacks, in this case on energy sites. What happened with that?

Well, I did ask Zelensky how he found out about this quote-unquote energy truce.

Through social, like you.

Truth Social?

We are together ordinary people. The president didn't call us. Yeah, yeah, but it's okay. I mean, this— it doesn't matter what way between us.

Zelensky said he would observe this truce as long as Russia did the same. And but 2 hours later, after Trump announced the energy ceasefire, Russia attacked a Ukrainian power plant, and the strikes have not stopped since.

That is NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Joanna, Thanks for this interview.

You're welcome.

Pope Leo has lung cancer. The Vatican shared the diagnosis on Tuesday after the pope had surgery at a hospital in Rome.

The Vatican says he spent a peaceful night recovering. They are promising to release more information about his condition later today.

All Things Considered host Scott Detrow is the co-author of a new biography of Pope Leo that came out last week, and he's been following up on this latest chapter in the pontiff's life story. Hi, Scott.

Good morning, Michelle.

So, so what do we know about the Pope's condition?

The operation lasted about 90 minutes, and doctors removed the lower lobe of Pope Leo's right lung. So the next step is waiting to see what the pathology tests reveal about the exact nature of the cancer. But we talked to several lung experts who say that from what the Vatican has said, they're actually optimistic. Uh, Dr. Ven Gupta from the University of Washington says that the course of action that doctors took does suggest that they did catch it early and that the cancer has not spread. And so the fact that surgery was the first tool that they, they utilized is a really good sign because it suggests that they think this is early stage. It hasn't spread to, say, lymph nodes. And again, still waiting for that pathology report. But he says that if that is the case and if doctors monitor Leo regularly, there is a chance this really wouldn't affect his lifespan at all. Many people live without 2 full lungs, and one person who lived decades without them was actually Pope Francis. He had part of a lung removed at a young age.

So what comes next?

Leo's going to remain hospitalized for several days. His schedule has been cleared for at least a week. This can be a painful surgery to recover from in the short term, but doctors say within 2 weeks, patients are often back to normal routines in many ways. That matters to Leo because he has a major trip scheduled to, to South America, including Peru, where he spent about 20 years of his life, in less than a month. And a Vatican official told me this surgery was actually purposely scheduled for now to give the Pope time to recover and still make the trip if he can. They won't make that decision until they get more data and see how he's doing. But, but it's still a possibility he goes.

So do we know whether Pope Leo ever smoked?

You know, obviously the big question when, when lung cancer is the diagnosis. I'll say I spent a year reporting on his life, talking to more than 100 people who know him well, looking at pictures from all ages of his life. And I got no indication that he ever smoked. He's a healthy guy. He's active. He still plays tennis once a week. But cancer does run in his family. His brother Louis is actually hospitalized right now, and Leo's mother Mildred died of cancer. She fought it for a long time. And in fact, reporting the book, we found a letter that the future pope wrote to friends in 1984, which was several years before she died. He writes in the letter, my mother continues to undergo chemotherapy treatments. She's a tough lady and handles it all well, which makes it a little easier for me being so far from Chicago.

So, Scott, given all your reporting, do you have any sense of how Leo is reacting to this?

I've been talking to several of his friends who have been in touch with him, and they say he's as responsive as ever. He's in good spirits. He's writing back to their notes right away. One constant theme in his life, going back to his seminary years, is a real trust in God and acceptance that, that he is not in charge of what happens, good or bad, that it's part of a plan that God has. And you've seen Leo really lean into that in big positive moments in his life. like his election to Pope, but in a lot of challenging moments too. And I have to think that that is primarily how he is processing this news.

That is All Things Considered host Scott Detrow, who co-authored a new biography of Pope Leo. It's just out. It's called American Pope. Scott, thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

President Trump has forced out his ambassador to Greece, Kimberly Guilfoyle. She is a prominent MAGA figure. She had a lengthy engagement to Trump's oldest son until the relationship ended.

Guilfoyle faced unflattering stories about trying to profit from her position. Now, the president and his family have profited in many ways during his second term. In this case, someone who was no longer on her way into the Trump family was accused of demanding money for herself, which she denies.

NPR's diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman is following this story and is with us now to tell us more about it. Good morning, Michelle.

Good morning, Michelle.

So tell us what led to this removal.

So The Wall Street Journal had a series of recent stories about Guilfoyle, and there were many allegations of misconduct, including that she asked a Trump donor for $100,000 to pay off a credit card bill in exchange for using her contacts within the administration. Democrats on Capitol Hill started writing letters to Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Calling for investigations. And this was happening while Rubio was in Athens. And he sounded annoyed when reporters asked him about it last week, as you can hear.

We don't conduct these things in a press conference on a tarmac in a foreign country because you wrote a story or somebody else wrote a story because some source gave it to you. So get that out of your head because that's never the way it's going to work with me. It's a game that's been played for a long time, but it's not a game we're going to play.

But fast forward to yesterday when President Trump called for her to resign, saying he didn't like what he was reading about her. He said he didn't even talk to Guilfoyle, who announced on X that her time as ambassador is coming to an end.

So is this the end of the story?

Not if Democrats have their way. Gregory Meeks, who's on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, says her resignation is not a substitute for accountability. He thinks that Congress and the inspector general need to conduct more oversight into her conduct and potential abuse of taxpayer dollars. Serving as an ambassador is a position of public trust, he told NPR in a statement, not a business opportunity. I also talked to retired career diplomat Eric Rubin, who says this looks really bad for the U.S. Take a listen.

I think Europeans are snickering. I think there are people in Greece who are snickering, and that's not good for us. We should have somebody who's respected and who carries the weight of the position.

Guilfoyle says she worked tirelessly to advance Trump's America First agenda in Greece. She dismissed the allegations against her, saying she intends to vigorously defend her name, reputation and integrity.

And what does this mean for the embassy?

Yeah, the State Department says there's an experienced deputy chief of mission who's ready to assume the role. That's happening in a lot of places around the world, Michelle, where President Trump has not even named an ambassador. He's named very few career diplomats, and that's something that Rubin is really worried about.

We've always had political appointees as ambassadors. We've always had some with no apparent qualifications. But from the historical trend, which included the first Trump administration, of having at least 60% or so of our ambassadors be career professionals, we're now down to about 5%.

Just a tiny fraction. And many embassies are run by, you know, the deputies, as I said. You know, all ambassadors, career and political have to be vetted. They have to get through Senate confirmation, and that could get a lot tougher for Trump political appointees after all this news about Kimberly Guilfoyle.

NPR's Michelle Kellerman. Michelle, thank you.

Thank you.

We are also following the latest developments on President Trump's efforts to ban CNN, MSNBC, and Politico from the White House. A federal judge previously stopped those efforts for a few weeks. Last night, he issued a ruling stopping them for a much longer period while the case moves toward a trial. The judge said the news organizations had made strong case that the administration was violating their First and Fifth Amendment rights, and there was no evidence to back up the White House's argument that the ban was about national security. And I'd like to invite you to watch my new special report. It's called Going There: A Matter of Life and Death. I sat down with leading experts and folks who offered personal insights about the rising suicide rate among Black Americans. They also dispel some of the myths that can act as barriers barriers to people getting the help they need for themselves, for friends and loved ones. You can watch the full conversation on NPR's YouTube page. And that's Up First for Wednesday, October 14th. I'm Michelle Martin.

And I'm Steve Inskeep. Today's Up First was edited by Tina Craya, Miguel Macias, Daniel Burke, Hannah Block, Mohammed Elbardisi, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziyad Butt and Nia Dumas. Our director is Christopher Thomas. How does this man put up with us so well? We get engineering support from Stacy Abbott, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Our supervising producer is Michael Lipkin. Join us tomorrow.