Transcript of U.S. In Venezuela, Future Of Venezuela, Maduro In NYC Court

President Trump declares the United States is in charge of Venezuela.

Trump also warned Venezuela's new leadership to fall in line. If they don't behave, we will do a second trip. How does the White House plan to run the country without troops on the ground?

I'm Steve Inskeep with A. Martínez, and this is Up First from NPR News. After making defiant remarks against the United States, Venezuela's acting leader is now bowing to US threats. Nicolaus Maduro's former vice President Delce Rodriguez is extending an invitation of cooperation. How far is she actually willing to go?

Maduro is due in a New York courtroom today. He's facing drug, weapon, and narco-terrorism charges. Can the US legally try a foreign leader seized overseas? Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day. This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. You can send spend, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be smart. Get WISE. Download the Wise app today or visit wise. Com. T's and C's apply.

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Listen religiously to Yee God's with Scott Carter, wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of reporters on Air Force One on Sunday, President Trump was asked who's in charge of Venezuela.

Don't ask me who's in charge because I'll give you an answer and it'll be very controversial.

What does that mean?

It means we're in charge. Okay, we still don't know what that means. Federal authorities, to bring President Nicolaus Maduro into court in the United States today. The US has otherwise left the Venezuelan government in place, expecting it to obey orders.

For more, we're joined by NPR National Security Correspondent Greg Myrie. Greg, what does it mean for President Trump be in charge of Venezuela?

Well, it's absolutely not clear. The US forces that seized Maduro dashed in and out of the country in less than three hours before dawn on Saturday morning. There are no US troops there now. Also, the US Embassy in Venezuela was shut down back in 2019, so there's no US diplomatic presence. The large US military contingent is still nearby. Many are on ships in the Caribbean, and Trump says he's prepared for further military action if he feels it's needed. But the President doesn't appear to want a full-scale, open-ended US military occupation. So if Trump and his team are simply trying to run the place from afar, they may have limited influence.

Now, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, was on a lot of TV shows yesterday. How did he frame what the administration plans to do?

Well, a little bit differently than Trump. Rubio said the US goal is to shape policies in Venezuela. The US would be assessing what steps the government there takes. He cited issues like stopping drug trafficking and migration in a country where millions have fled in recent years, many heading to the US. Now, he noted the US is still blocking oil tankers on a US sanctions list from coming to or leaving from Venezuela, and this gives the US huge leverage over the country's most valuable resource. Trump also wants US oil companies to make billion dollar investments to upgrade that oil industry, but we'll have to see how eager these oil companies might be to go into a country and make a big commitment when the place is in such an uncertain state.

Delce Rodriguez was Venezuela's vice president. She's now become the interim president. How does she fit into all this?

Yeah, so Trump seems to be setting the terms of how he'll cooperate with her and the government that left in place in Venezuela. Trump gave an interview to the Atlantic magazine on Sunday, and speaking of Rodriguez, he said, If she doesn't do what's right, she's going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro. And speaking to reporters on Air Force One, Trump repeated his threat of more military action in Venezuela. If they don't behave, we will do a second strike. That may be a bit hard to hear. He's saying, If they don't behave, we will do a second strike. Maduro's top aides, his loyalists, and the military and security forces remain in place, and they simply may not adopt the policies that Trump would like to see.

Now, Trump has long been opposed to getting involved in foreign entanglements, especially long-standing ones. How does all that fit into what he has said in the past?

This is very much at odds with one of Trump's more consistent positions over the years, no foreign wars. But now he's talking about his own updated version of the Monroe doctrine, first stated by President James Monroe 200 years ago. It's been interpreted variously by different presidents, but it's come to mean the US should play the dominant role in this hemisphere. We should also note some more recent history when the US has ousted or helped oust notorious leaders of oil-rich countries, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Omar Gadhafi in Libya. In both cases, the US believed oil would lead to a swift rebuilding of those countries, but what followed was chaos.

That's NPR's Greg Meiry. Greg, thanks.

Sure thing, eh.

As described by US officials, the concept for Venezuela is an old-style colonial model.

The United United States does not propose to install a new government. In fact, it has brushed aside the opposition candidate that the United States itself says won the 2024 election. Maria Karina Machado, the recipient of the Nobel Prize, is also left out. Instead, the US proposes to give orders to the current socialist government on whatever issues the US cares about.

Npr's, Kari Khan, is in Colombia. So, Carrie, Delcey Rodriguez, Nicolas Maduro's Vice President, she's now the interim President. Is she going to take orders from the US.

She at least seems to have changed her tone after President Trump threatened her with a worse faith than Maduro. You heard that. In her statement out late yesterday, Rodriguez addressed President Trump directly. She said, Our people, our region deserve peace and dialog, not war, and she's willing to cooperate. That's just quite a swift turnaround from her very defiant show Saturday, calling the US action a barbarity and demanding Maduro's return. It's also clear that, as you said, she is now called Venezuela's leader. She was sworn into office Saturday, or as the state media in Venezuela is calling it, she was ordered to assume the presidency, and that was by the regime's Loyalist Supreme Court.

Now, Kari, you've talked with Maria Corina Machado the opposition leader who used to have the United States as support, is the US accepting the socialist government in Venezuela as legitimate now?

Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, was asked that on his media appearances yesterday. He just brushed off legitimacy questions and said, For now, the US just has to work with those still in Venezuela since leading opponents aren't in the country. Rubio said he's sure that those that are still there will follow US demands after watching the military remove Maduro. Here's Rubio on MBC's Meet the Press.

It had to be done, and it's been done. I assure you, the people left behind in Venezuela now that are in charge of the police and everything else, I assure you, they're going to probably be a lot more compliant than Maduro was as a result of this.

We also We've heard some more details about Saturday's US invasion that were interesting. The Cuban government announced that 32 of its citizens, including military personnel, were killed during the US operation, and they were actively engaging US forces. It's been long believed that Cuba, close and vital allies, was sending soldiers and intelligence agents and even providing security for Maduro. So that was stunning yesterday.

Kari, tell us a little bit more about Delce Rodriguez.

Sure. She's been the vice president for more than seven years. She's credited with stabilizing the economy after just turmoil and years of hyperinflation. She has two main roles, and one has been overseeing the oil industry. She also oversees the regime's greatly feared intelligence service, so she has good relations with the military. Her brother is the head of the National Assembly, so she's definitely an insider with this long hardline resume. It's unclear how those relationships are going to hold up when she's seen to be helping the US government.

Now, it's only been a few days, but how are Venezuelans dealing with all this?

There are still long lines being formed in some stores stocking up. The government held a rally in support of Maduro yesterday. It did fill a few blocks. Here's 64-year-old Rodolfo Ramírez. He's a high school teacher. He said he came out to tell Trump, Venezuelans will defend their country.

Trump, don't come here and rob us.

Get your head out of the clouds, he said. And he warned that if Trump comes for Venezuela's oil, he'll have to kill us all. He said he's not getting a single drop. And in another development last night, the man widely believed to have won the last presidential election in 2024, Edmundo González, he put out a video calling himself the President and demanding the release of all political prisoners in Venezuela.

That's NPR's Kerry Khan in Colombia. Kerry, thanks.

You're welcome.

Miguel Amaduro and his wife, Silia Flores, are starting their day in a Brooklyn jail.

Their midday court appearance is to be on drug trafficking and charges. Their arrest over the weekend in the middle of Venezuela's capital raises questions about the reach of American law.

Here's NPR Justice Correspondent, Cary Johnson. So, Kari, what are the allegations against Maduro and his family?

A grand jury in New York first indicted Maduro back in 2020. Then, a new grand jury there added new charges recently and added new defendants, too. Maduro faces four felony charges. That includes narco-terrorism, conspiracy, conspiracy to import tons of cocaine, and possession of machine guns and other destructive devices. Us law enforcement accuses Maduro sitting at the top of a vast conspiracy, basically to line his pockets by overseeing the flow of drugs into the US and helping violent cartels along the way. Maduro's wife, Celia Flores, a former attorney general of Venezuela, also faces charges. The Trump administration had placed a $50 million reward for information leading to the capture of Maduro, and attorney general Pam Bondi says they will soon face the full rath of American justice on American soil in American courts.

Let's break down the scale of this whole thing because the operation, I mean, air, land, sea, middle of the night inside a foreign capital. I mean, how does the Trump administration justify such an extraordinary move.

The Trump administration has not released any detailed legal analysis or other reasoning to explain the basis for this operation called Absolute Resolve. But Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, says this was a law enforcement action invasion, not a military invasion. Maduro was arrested by FBI agents and read his rights, Rubio says. Here's more from Rubio on the ABC show this week with George Stephanopoulos.

Obviously, this was not a friendly territory. In order to arrest him, we had to ask the Department of War to become involved in this operation. The Department of War went in. They hit anything that was a threat to the agents that were going in to arrest them, and they hit anything that was a threat on the way out. That was a very limited and targeted operation.

The Trump administration seems to be relying on a controversial Justice Department memo by Bill Barr, who was attorney general in Trump's first term. That memo was from 1989, and it paved the way for American law enforcement to make arrests in other countries, even if those actions might violate international law. The memo was issued months before the US captured Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega and sent him to the US to face charges. Noriega fought back and mostly lost But that legal fight took a lot of years.

Eventually, Nicolas Maduro is going to make an argument in court. What might that be?

Maduro might argue that he should enjoy immunity as a head of state in Venezuela, even though the Trump administration says he was not elected freely and fairly. Maduro also might try to challenge how the US captured him. But legal scholars say that could be difficult because there's a lot of Supreme Court precedents saying it doesn't matter how a defendant gets onto soil once they're here. Then there's one more complication. American courts don't really like to weigh in on sensitive matters related to a president's national security power. Us courts could be leery about protests from Maduro and others that the administration failed to notify Congress or get any approval before this operation.

Npr Justice Correspondent, Kari Johnson. Kari, thanks.

Thank you.

That's up first for Monday, January fifth. I'm E. Martinez.

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