Transcript of Maduro Pleads Not Guilty, Congress On Venezuela, Vaccine Schedule Overhaul

Nicholas Maduro pleaded not guilty in a New York courtroom, declaring he was kidnapped.

Protesters gathered outside. This is a ploy to capture oil and foreign resources of a country. What is Maduro's defense against drug charges?

I'm Leila Fadel with Steve Inskeep, and this is Up First from NPR News. The White House gave lawmakers a classified briefing on the former Venezuelan President's capture. Senator Chuck Schumer told reporters one thing he did not here.

I did not receive any assurances that we would not try to do the same thing in other countries.

Did the President scorn Congress by keeping it in the dark? House Speaker Mike Johnson argues Trump did not.

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We have heard some of the US case against ousted Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro. Now, he has taken the first step in his defense.

Maduro and his wife pleaded not guilty to federal criminal charges. Us military Special Forces seized the both of them from inside Venezuela last week, and Monday was their first appearance in a New York court.

And Piars Jasmine Garst was in the courtroom and joins us now. Jasmine, good morning. Good morning. What was it like?

It was really unusual. From the moment Maduro appeared in court, before he sat down, he made eye contact with reporters, and he wished us a Happy New Year in English. I don't think anyone saw that coming. His wife walked in behind him. She seemed to have a swollen eye, and her forehead was bandaged. Later, her lawyer said she'd been hurt in the military operation during their capture. They requested X-rays for her ribs. They said they were either bruised or broken. Now, the proceedings, the whole thing lasted about 30 minutes, and early on, there was a heckler in the courtroom, which led to a reminder for us to keep quiet. But as Maduro was escorted back out, this man got up and yelled at him, saying he would pay for what he's done to Venezuelans. Maduro responded that he's a man of God and added that he's a prisoner of war kidnapped by the American military.

Okay, so a heckler who is an anti-Maduro heckler. I was just seeing video images of protests outside the courthouse as well.

Yeah, there was quite a lot. There were these really heated exchanges happening outside. I think it really speaks to the complicated feeling around all this. There were two groups of protesters. There were those who are against American intervention in Venezuela, and there were Venezuelans celebrating Maduro's capture. I spoke to a young man named Izzy McCabe.

This is a ploy to capture oil and foreign resources of a country. This is to serve the same companies that come back and that bribe our politicians that make us poor, that steal our resources here, that are polluting our environment here.

You know, Steve, Trump has said he wants to take control of Venezuela's oil resources and have American companies rebuild that infrastructure. I asked one of the Venezuelan protesters who was there celebrating Maduro's detention, what she makes of those accusations that this is just about the US exploiting Venezuela's oil reserves. Here's a woman named Maria Su.

What she's saying is, you think Russia and China are in Venezuela for fun?

How many years have they been stealing Venezuela on oil and gold? How many years have they been taking advantage of us? How many years has Cuba been living off of us?

Interesting questions. But what did you learn in that half hour about the case against Maduro and also his defense?

Maduro's attorney is a well-known lawyer, Barry Pollack, who defended Julian Assange against the US government as well. He reminded the judge yesterday that his client is the head of a sovereign state and that there's going to be a lot of questions about the legality of how he was taken. Meanwhile, the Trump administration's indictment is 25 pages long. What I can say is that this case is likely going to go on for a while. The next hearing is on March 17th, Meanwhile, the Maduros are going to be held in jail right here in New York City.

And Piers Jasmine Garce, thanks so much.

Thank you.

Now, the seizure of Venezuela's President raises a question for the American President, whether he should have consulted Congress.

Yeah, President Trump did not inform Congress before an operation that the White House calls a law enforcement operation. Democrats saw it as an act of war, and Republicans largely have obeyed the President.

Lawmakers from both parties received a briefing after the operation, and NPR Congressional Correspondent Barbara Sprunt was waiting outside. Barbara, good morning. Good morning, Steve. Okay, so the Secretary of State goes in. Marco Rubio, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, CIA Director. They brief top lawmakers Then what did you hear on the way out?

It really depends on who it was. The partisan divide was on full display. On the one hand, you had Republicans calling it a good meeting, a thorough briefing. They said that the military operation was appropriate from the administration. Then Democrats left the briefing saying that they had more questions than answers. Here's Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. He called the administration's plan for running Venezuela vague and unsatisfying.

I did not receive any assurances that we would not try to do the same thing in other countries. When the United States engages in this regime change and so-called nation building, it always ends up hurting the United States. I left the same as the briefing, feeling that it would again.

There are some meetings where members leave and talk to reporters, and you learn a ton of new information. This was not that. A lot of people left saying that they're just not sharing these details from the briefing at this point. But that doesn't mean that they're shying away from talking about their concerns. A really big point of contention is that Congress wasn't notified in advance of the operation.

Well, let's talk that through. We should be clear, President after President after President has taken more and more power from Congress, and Congress has largely rolled over. This Congress has very notably rolled over and said that it has no role to play again and again and again. But how are lawmakers talking about it in this situation?

Exactly that. Democrats are concerned about the White House circumventing Congress. They say this is just the latest example of that in a long list of examples. Here's Gregory Meeks, the highest-ranking Democrat on the Foreign Affairs Committee.

It seems at every term, Donald Trump is trying to figure out how he avoids Congress, and unfortunately, Congress allows him to do it.

House Speaker Mike Johnson actually addressed this directly. He said that this operation was not an act of war. It was a legal operation, and that the President has the authority to deploy military forces to address threats to the United States. As for this claim that Congress is weak, he says, No, not the case.

Look, I can tell you, as a speaker of the House, as a person who's in charge defending Article I powers, I'm just going to insist to you that those have not been traversed in any way by what happened here. The President used his authority under the law. Lawmakers today are going to meet with the President, and it's Republicans meeting him, right?

That's right. In the past, when the President has joined these types of conference meetings with House Republicans, it becomes almost like a rally. It's not hard to envision that happening today, given that they're gearing up as a party for the midterm elections. I expect that Venezuela will be part of the conversation, but not the only topic. There will be a separate all-member briefing on Venezuela tomorrow, and that's where I expect we'll learn more about next steps in the region.

And Paris Barber Sprunt, thanks so much. Thank you. Us health officials announced a major overhaul to vaccine recommendations for children.

Yeah, it reduces the number of vaccines that are routinely recommended. The centers for Disease, Control, and Prevention made the changes in response to a directive from President Trump.

And Piers Ping-Wong is covering this story. Good morning. Good morning. Okay, just talk us through what are the changes.

So all US children are now recommended to get vaccines against 11 diseases, which is six fewer than there were yesterday morning. What remains on the everyone should get this list includes vaccines against measles, polio, chickenpox, HPV. But other shots that used to be recommended for all kids, like those for rotovirus, meningitis, hepatitis A, and B, and flu, are now recommended only for children at high risk or only after talking with a health care provider. Dr. Sean O'Leary with the American Academy of Pediatrics says this will lead to fewer children getting vaccinated against diseases, and some of these effects will be seen years down the line, but seasonal flu is spreading now.

The flu vaccine this year actually is working very well to protect children. To back off on a flu recommendation in the midst of a pretty severe flu year seems to me to be pretty tone deaf.

These changes were done in an unusual way.

Unusual how?

There was no new scientific developments behind it. There was no public comment period. Vaccine makers were not involved, and it sidestepped the CDC's Vaccine Advisory Committee.

Just trying to apply my common sense here, Ping. You mentioned flu. I mean, somebody in my family had the flu the other day. Meningitis, another one that there's no longer a recommendation for everyone to get vaccinated. Sounds like a pretty serious disease. So what is this based on?

Yeah, they are, Steve. And early in December, President Trump issued a memo directing health officials to align the US vaccine schedule with those in what he called peer-developed countries like Germany, Japan, Australia. And that kicked off a review led by two senior officials, Tracey Beth-Hogue of the FDA and Martin Goldsorff. Both of them were hired by Health Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And both were closely involved with his vaccine changes last year. And they put out this report yesterday, which focused a lot on the vaccine schedule in Denmark, which requires fewer vaccines than any of the other countries reviewed. Dr. Jesse Goodman, a former FDA official now at Georgetown University, says that is not the best comparison. Most well-off Western countries are recommending these vaccines for their citizens.

And it really is Denmark that's an outlier.

Denmark It has a smaller population than New York City. It's quite homogenous, and they have universal health care. To Goodman's point, some of the shots the US just took off the universally recommended list, like rotovirus, meningitis, and hepatitis B, are recommended for all kids in most of the other countries that were reviewed.

I'm just interested by the concept that this administration would say we should do something because a European country of all countries does this. But what does this mean for parents? How do they make sense of this?

It's very confusing. I mean, health officials say all the vaccines still available for free for any parent that wants them. That's because all the vaccines are still technically on the schedule. They've just shifted to some different categories, like shared clinical decision making, which means that parents should get a medical consult before deciding to get them. But parents who want vaccines may need to advocate for them, and some clinicians may be thinking there's more paperwork involved, and a lot of doctors' offices historically don't stock vaccines that require these extra consultations.

And Beers Ping-Wong, thanks so much.

You're welcome.

And that's Up First for this Tuesday, January sixth. I'm Steve Inskeep.

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