Transcript of Can Old Age Be a New Beginning?

I'm Ayesha Rosco, and this is the Sunday Story from Up First, where we go beyond the news of the day to bring you one big story. Many of us decide to make changes in our life all the time. Sometimes they're small, like New Year's resolutions to read more or eat less sugary sweets. But sometimes we make big changes, ones that are life-altering, like a career change. Today, we're going to focus on those life-altering changes, specifically the ones we make late in life. One of the most notable people to make a big change in recent years is President Donald Trump, who will tomorrow be inaugurated as President for the second time. He famously turned from mogul to politician when he was 69, an age often considered retirement age. But growing numbers of people are rejecting this idea that a productive life ends at a certain middle age. Instead, many are now seeing the part of life that comes after middle age, not as an end, but as a beginning, the start of what some call the Third Act of Life. Anthony Brooks is a former NPR reporter and longtime correspondence at member station WBUR in Boston, he spent the last few years interviewing people about their decision to re-imagine and reinvent themselves late in life.

His series is called Third and he joins us now to talk about what he's learned. Hi, Anthony.

Hey, Ayesha. Nice to talk to you.

Yeah. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So I'm intrigued by the origin story of this project. Did you decide Did you decide to do this because you were feeling stuck or you wanted a change in your life?

I think there's always a bit of that going on with me. But I think where this really started for me was about 16 years ago. I had a bit of a health scare which, thankfully, I recovered from. I was also mourning the loss of my dad. I guess you could say that I was coming to terms with this idea that there's a lot more of my life behind me than ahead of me. I'm thinking for the first time, what do I really want to do with the time that remains. And I became intrigued with stories of people who found ways to reinvent themselves late in life in interesting and inspirational ways. Just when I was dialing into this idea, Katherine Sealey of the New York Times reported a great story about a man who began this third act journey in a really fascinating way. That story really helped launch this project.

Tell me about the man in that story that drew your attention.

His name is Tom Andrew, and he worked a full career as a doctor, including 20 years as the Chief Medical Examiner for New Hampshire, which is where I live. Tom saw it all up close, Ayesha. The grim toll car accidents, of gunshot wounds, poisonings, assaults, and suicides, you name it. He saw it. He said it was a job that gave him a particular appreciation for the fragility of life, and he remained committed to his work until the opioid crisis hit New Hampshire hard. He told me that he watched too many kids, too many young people die, and that he didn't feel that the state was taking the epidemic seriously enough.

I tried to raise the alarms about this, that at this rate, we will see more drug deaths in a given year in New Hampshire than traffic deaths. Well, sure enough, it came to pass.

What was the actual number? If it started out at 50 a year?

There were 500 drug deaths a year.

There was this frustration with some folks who were perfectly content not to do anything.

We live, free, or die here. I could not reconcile that with what I was seeing and what I was feeling.

Eventually, Tom just had enough. In 2017, at the age of he quit. He'd done the job for 20 years, so he retired.

But I'm guessing since we're talking about him, he didn't just stop and retire in a traditional sense.

No, not at all. He could have followed that route. He could have retired, put his feet up, cruised into old age. But instead, he goes back to school. He's a man of faith, so he goes to seminary school to become a Methodist deacon because what he wants to do is work with his local Boy Scout troop. Here's a bit of what he told me about that.

I spent 20 years on the assessment end, counting the cost.

When I wanted to make my change, I wanted to work with young people and let them see that there's a better way than that pill or that powder or that joint that's offered to them by their erstwhile friend.

So he wanted to do good, and he wanted to do it at a point when it would matter.

Yeah, he really… This animates a lot the stories that I found. He wanted to give back is really a good way to put it. It's worth pointing out that becoming a full-fledged deacon is a long process. It involves not only seminary school, but studying and sitting for interviews with church elders Tom was still at it just a couple of years ago, at the age of 66, when I was talking to him.

Well, how is it going for Tom now? Is he happy with the life that he chose and the radical change that he He really is, as far as I can tell.

His kids are grown, he's still happily married, and perhaps most importantly, his life has new purpose, Ayesha, and he seems to be really thriving in this third act.

So, Anthony, this is a really heartwarming story. As you say, what Tom did, I guess, is no longer as out there or outlandish as it might have seemed. What has changed? Is it that people are just living longer?

Yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it. There's a lot of things going on here, but that's one of the main things worth considering. If you go back just over 100 years to 1900, the average life expectancy was around 47. Today, it hovers near Eighty. That means we're living three decades longer than we used to. I spoke to a bunch of experts on this subject, and one of them put it this way, that if you're 54, you could be only halfway through adulthood. By the way, I came this fact, which blew my mind, Ayesha. According to the US Census Bureau, the number of Americans living into their 90s by 2050 could be as much as 10 times higher than it was in 1980. That means if you're one of those people and you're 45, you're only halfway through your life. You've got half your life ahead of you. When you hit that traditional retirement age, there's still a lot of life left to live. That's the main point here.

Okay. I'm not 45 yet, but I certainly hope when I'm 45 that I got half of my life ahead of me. I hope I got a long, long time.

You got a good chance, Ayesha. You got a good chance.

But that is wild to think about how much longer people are living these days and what that means.

Yeah, it is crazy. And consider that some 80 million people in the United States are over the age of 60, and there are more and more of them every day. In fact, as many as 10,000 people a day are turning 65. We're living longer, and there are a whole lot more of us thinking about what do we do with this extra two or three decades of life. Those who study this period have given it a name. It's called middle-escence. Think of it as a later in life adolescents. It's a time of change, of tumult, but it can also be a time of opportunity and growth, like adolescence. By the way, Ayesha, old age or older age offers an opportunity to be even happier than you might have been. There's research on this, the so-called U-shaped theory of happiness. That suggests that happiness declines for many people from the teens or early 20s into the '40s and '50s, but then rises again when people hit their '60s, '70s, even their '80s. So this can be a really great time to re-imagine your life.

Stay with us. We'll be right back. It's a new year. And according to Pew, 79% of resolutions are about not one thing, health. But there are so many fads around how to keep ourselves healthy. On It's been a Minute, I'm helping you understand why some of today's biggest wellness trends are, well, trendy. Like, why is there protein in everything? Join me as we uncover what's healthy and what's not on the It's Been A Minute podcast from NPR. On NPR's Wild Card podcast, comedian Michelle Buteau says she's glad she ignored the people who told her to lose weight. I'm just going to show you what it looks like to love my body, my double chin, my extra rolls, okay? My buckets of thais, sauce on the side, you can't afford it. I'm Rachel Martin.

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We're back with reporter Anthony Brooks and his stories of people who reinvented themselves late in life. But it's still scary, isn't it, to make a big life change so far along when you're really set in your ways. It's scary to me right now to make life changes Even taking the finances aside, it often will require letting go of a planned life, right?

Absolutely. I mean, there's no doubt that making these changes takes work and sometimes a lot of courage. Let me tell you about another woman I interviewed for this series. Her name is Julianna Richardson. She grew up in Newark, Ohio, and she was the only Black girl in her elementary school class. She told me that when she was in the third grade, she already knew she was getting this sense there was something missing in her life.

There was no history, not Black history. There was not even a sense of where my place was in American society.

But Giuliana was smart. She was ambitious. She ends up going to Brandyce University outside of Boston. And that's when she made a discovery that would eventually really change her life. So she was studying the Harlem Renaissance when she came across this well-known song. You're just wild about Harry. And here's your Wild About. Can I do without Harry's Wild About Me. So Ayesha, you've heard this, right?

I have not heard this. All right.

Well, it's a well-known song from a while ago, and I forgive you for not hearing it because it is old, but it was a famous old song called Wild Harry, famous Broadway tune that was a song about President Harry Truman. But when Richardson learned that it was written by a pair of Black songwriters, Noble Sisyl and Ubi Blake, it absolutely blew her mind. It thrilled her. I mean, here's a woman who grew up without any sense of Black history, of her history, beginning to discover it. That discovery inspires Richardson to record a series of interviews with a number of prominent Black Americans for college for this project. But it It would take a while for her to figure out what to do with all this. That's because her dad wanted her to be a lawyer. There was a lot of pressure on her to go that route. After Brandeis, she went on to Harvard Law School. She got a law degree and ends up landing a job at a corporate law firm in Chicago.

I mean, it sounds like she was extremely successful.

She was successful. She was well on her way. But here's the thing. She never felt completely at home in the world of corporate law. She always was more interested in acting in Arts, as she told me. She said that she was the first Black attorney at the firm in Chicago and only the second woman to work there. That had a lot to do with why she didn't want to keep being a lawyer, why she never really felt comfortable in that environment. She decides to quit. Then she became an entrepreneur. She worked in the cable TV industry for the city of Chicago. She eventually started a home shopping channel. But the cable TV industry was in flux and in decline, so that didn't end up working out. So as Giuliana told me, she was in midlife, out of a job, and lost with no idea what to do next. Classic midlife crisis.

I couldn't go back to practice law at this point. Too many years had passed. My home shopping channel had gone belly up. What was I going to do? But I say often that sometimes at your darkest moment, the thing that's intended for you is right there.

Right there. And the right there for Giuliana was to return to that passion project she started at Brandeis to set up a company that would record and archive oral histories of Black Americans.

How old was she at this point?

She's in her late 40s when she makes this big decision.

Okay, so tell me more about this project.

The idea was to set up something that she called Historymakers. It's an archive of video histories of Black Americans. But the plan had a huge flaw. Giuliana had no money to do it. Her friends, they all thought she was crazy. Even her parents wondered why a Harvard-trained lawyer would want to pursue this pipe dream. But she was determined and literally started HistoryMakers with a laptop on her kitchen table. Fast forward to today, Historymakers has recorded thousands of interviews of lots of prominent Black artists, athletes, and public figures. Here's a brief excerpt that I want to play from my story about HistoryMakers.

Yeah, let's hear it.

The nonprofit has collected masses of documents and recorded thousands of video interviews with the famous and not so famous. From Black athletes like Ernie Banks.

No bats, no balls, no gloves, no nothing. We played with some rag balls. So what do you use for a man, a broomstick or something? A broomstick. That's exactly what you use, a broomstick.

To Black artists like poet Maya Angelou.

Although I met Langston Hughes, he invited me to his house in Harlem. I don't remember anything he said, but I remember he was very kind.

To Black politicians, including a young state senator from Illinois, recorded in 2001. I'm Barack Obama. That's spelled B-A-R-A-T.

C-a-c-k-o-b-a-m-a. My birthday is August fourth. That was done right in that room over there. It's really extraordinary, the path that he took.

Ayesha, seven years after that was recorded, Obama was elected President. Over the past 24 years, Giuliana Richardson has raised close to $40 million and recorded something like 4,000 interviews, all of which are now available through the Library of Congress and through many colleges and universities across the country. As she told me, it took a while, but history makers became her third act.

You get at a point where you start asking, what is going to be your lead behind? What did you do in your life that was significant. If we do this right, it will be something that hopefully makes society a richer place. Well, it really seems like she has achieved that and that this project really is making the world a little bit richer.

I think so. I think a lot richer. Another thing I like about Giuliana's story is how she pushed through that classic midlife crisis. Some of the people who study this concept of middle essence say we shouldn't think about these periods as crises. It can be difficult, tumultuous, but it can be a gateway to self-discovery and really find herself and contribute in a big way to the world as well.

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Matt Wilson spent years doing rounds at children's hospitals in New York City.

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Ideas about navigating uncertainty. That's on the Ted Radio Hour podcast from NPR. We're back with Anthony Brooks of WBUR in Boston. His series, Third Act, looks at how Americans are reinventing themselves in their older years. So, Anthony, I love this idea that as our life expectancy increases, people are seeing the end of middle age as a beginning. But it does feel like that may be easier done if you have the financial means. If you living paycheck to paycheck, is it really realistic to say, Let me reinvent myself and do some good in the world?

No, it's a totally fair point, Ayesha. Clearly, having the ability to reinvent yourself might be a bit of a luxury that a lot of people can't afford. But also, consider this, that there are lots of people, no matter their social economic status, that are really creative and resourceful. For example, one academic who's written about reinvention later in life me about a woman who cleaned hotel rooms for a living, but her passion was helping animals. She changed careers late in life and went to work in an animal shelter. Not to earn tons of money, but it brought her way more happiness in a sense that she was doing some good in the world. Ayesha, there's another woman who I met who also found a new path despite limited resources. Can I tell you about her?

Yes, please.

Okay. Her name is Natalie Jones. She grew up in Boston in the 1960s. She's in a working class family, granddaughter of Italian immigrants. She told me that from a very early age, there was zero expectation that she would go to college. It just wasn't part of the family conversation. In fact, when she was 12, the school she was going to asked her to choose whether she was business-bound or college-bound. Natalie told me it was a choice that just left her completely dumbfounded.

I didn't even know what that meant. I think it was based on your family's economics, really. My mother just said, check off business. The classes I took in the seventh and eighth grade were not college preparatory. But I never thought that I was smart enough to go to college.

But Natalie was also a bit of a rebel and a risk taker. After high school, she takes off on a trip to Europe. She traveled to Spain. She met an Irishman with whom she fell in love. Eventually, they returned to the Boston area, got married, had a couple of kids, but it turned into a hard life for them. Money was tight. They both worked at low paying jobs, living paycheck to paycheck. After about 12 years, the marriage was in crisis, and then her husband dropped a bombshell.

He just came home one night and said, I want a divorce. It was like a kick in the stomach.

At 41, she's got two sons aged five and nine and no college degree.

Being in that situation and now she got to take care of two kids and no college degree, that is a very difficult situation to be in.

It is. But Natalie is resourceful. She juggled multiple part-time jobs, including waitressing and office work. Then she joined a support group for families dealing with divorce. Eventually, she became a volunteer facilitator and discovered that she was pretty good at it. Despite the fact that she spent her whole life convinced that she wasn't smart enough to go to college, in her mid-forties, she makes the decision to go to college and pursue a degree in Human Services.

I'm walking across the parking lot with tears rolling down my eyes saying, Oh, my God, I'm in college. I was just so thrilled to be there.

With loans and scholarships, Natalie continues her studies, and just shy of her 60th birthday, she got a master's degree and then became a licensed clinical therapist. And today, she's well into her 70s and says she plans to keep working into her 80s.

I'm constantly saying to people, you can write your own script. No, that is a great story. I mean, really, all of these stories are incredibly inspiring. Even just in my personal life, I'm looking at this, I'm thinking, okay, if they can do it, well, maybe I need to keep trying, too.

We can all do it.

Yeah, but But tell us why these stories matter to you and why maybe they'll matter to all of us.

Yeah, I mean, I guess I'd make two points. First, for those who haven't already reached their older years, these stories are a chance to learn something about the road ahead from people who have already traveled it. You could put it another way, wisdom matters. It's inspiring to hear these stories, and I think it makes us all reflect on our own lives and what we can do with our later years. The other idea is this. These stories show the transformative power of human passion and the search for lifelong avocation, and that is literally a matter of life and death for all of us. By that, I mean, we know that people who feel that they have a purpose in life live longer. That's according to a growing body of research. One study out of Canada found that people with a sense of purpose had a 15% lower risk of death compared with those who said they were aimless. So they matter for that reason.

Before I let you go, I guess I'm wondering if this third act, this time of reinvention, does it go beyond work? I guess a lot of people might go, I don't really want to spend much more time making money. I want to spend more time on art or writing or other creative pursuits.

Yeah, it's a great question. It brings us to what was probably my favorite third act story about an all-woman rock and roll band.

An all-woman rock and roll band. Tell me more.

All right. This band is called The Ace of Cups.

Do you know, baby, I ain't hard to beat you at all.

So Ayesha, this is a song from the Ace of Cups' 2018 debut album, and the band members are all women, but this record almost didn't happen. The band was born in San Francisco in the 1960s, and they played with a lot of really well-known bands, including Jefferson Airplane and the Grateful Dead, but they never recorded an album. They never managed to do that. As you can imagine, sexism had a lot to do with that. Denise Kaufman plays guitar for the Ace of Cups, and she said that even landing gigs could be a challenge. She told me a story about trying to book a club in the 1960s in San Francisco.

Our manager called there and talked to the booking guy, and he goes, Yeah, all-girl band? Absolutely. We'll book them, but they have to play topless.

Oh, my God.

I said, You call them back and tell them, We won't play topless, but we'll play naked.

Well, they didn't play naked, but by 1972, the band was pretty much done. Some of the members started kids, they found other work, and eventually, they went their separate ways, and their music was almost lost forever.

Now, you say almost lost. So what happened?

Well, decades after they first performed, a record producer heard them and was so impressed that he offered them a recording contract. In 2018, more than 50 years after they first played together, the Ace of Cups finally released their first album.

Walk that line every day. I don't think I'm going to get away And when that album came out, they like to say on stage, We're in our '60s from the '60s.

Today, they're all in their '70s and have actually released two albums. Going to reap what I sow.

Oh, Well, Anthony, thank you so much for these stories. I guess it's basically like, Keep hope alive. You can do it.

I love that. Keep hope alive. Ayesha, thanks. It's been a real pleasure talking to you.

Anthony Brooks is a reporter with WBUR in Boston. You can find Anthony's third act series and more of his stories at wbur. Org. This This episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Andrew Mambo and edited by Jennie Schmidt. The engineer was Jimmy Keely. Liana Simstrom is our supervising producer, and Irene Naguchi is our executive producer. Up first, we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First, sponsor-free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get Up First Plus at plus. Npr. Org. That's plus. Npr. Org.

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