Transcript of Trump Visits Disaster Zones, DEI and the Military, London Hacking Hearing

President Trump is heading to two disaster zones for his first trip since returning to the White House.

How are politics getting involved in aid relief for California and North Carolina?

I'm Michelle Martin. That's A. Martinez, and this is Up First from NPR News. Trump is targeting the federal government's diversity programs. They got their start during the civil rights movement decades ago, and he also wants to get rid of efforts to investigate extremism in the military.

Things like focusing on extremism have created a climate inside our ranks that feel political when it hasn't ever been political.

How could all this change the ranks of the people charged with defending the country?

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Both communities are grappling with recovery from disasters, but there is some politics at play, too.

Yeah. Npr's White House correspondent, Deepa Shivaram joins us now to talk about this. Kippa. So two disaster zones. What's the President going to be doing while he's in these two states?

Yeah, well, we're waiting to hear more information. This is the first week of the new Trump administration, so they're still working out some of the details of these kinds of presidential movements. What we do know is actually from the President himself. He said he's going to Asheville, North Carolina, and that city was absolutely devastated by Hurricane Helene in September. There was massive amounts of flooding, and this was all in the middle of the presidential campaign. The disaster became political when Trump started posting online that the Biden administration wasn't doing enough to help. He spread misinformation about aid relief, saying Democrats were withholding aid from Republican areas and was misrepresenting how much money there was for rebuilding efforts. Parts of North Carolina are still recovering and rebuilding, and Trump talked about it in his inaugural address.

Okay, so then after Asheville, North Carolina, then he comes to Los Angeles.

Correct. So he's headed there after weeks of wildfires in LA. It's set to be one of the most expensive natural disasters in the US in a long time. And FEMA has enough money right now, but there is going to be a lot more federal aid needed as the city works to recover. But Trump sees it as an opportunity for political leverage. He's trying to build support in Congress for some of his legislative priorities, like tax cuts and government spending measures, and having support from some Democrats who want the wildfire aid passed might make that easier. Here's Trump in an interview with Sean Hannity on Fox News on Wednesday.

I will say that Los Angeles has changed everything because a lot of money is going to be necessary for Los Angeles, and a lot of people on the other side want that to happen. North Carolina, too. Well, they don't care about North Carolina.

California is led by a Democrat, and Governor Gavin Newsom and Trump often spar. Newsom has invited Trump to come out to LA, but it's not known if Trump will meet with him. I'll say North Carolina's current and previous governors are both also Democrats.

So using disaster relief as political leverage, that doesn't sound very typical.

Yeah, Trump is really leaning into leveraging the California aid, and any other element of it is that he's asking for the state to change their water policies in order for them to get any money. It's not clear how far Trump intends to go with that request, but he's been talking about it for days. I spoke with Henry braided. He's a professor of politics at Berkeley in California, and he said doing this also up a slippery slope for both parties.

In general, most of the Congress doesn't probably want this to happen, because if this starts, where does it lead eventually?

In the Midwest, if you have tornadoes, you have to change your wants to have basements that are safe.

If you are in New Orleans and you have a hurricane, you've got to stop building houses on floodplains and on and on and on.

In Congress, some Republicans agree with Trump on this, but I will say there are some California Republicans who are pushing back, saying that there should be no conditions on this aid.

All right. That's NPR's Deepa Chibron. Thanks a lot. Thank you. The Trump administration has nixed DEI, or diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, across federal government.

These programs were part of a civil rights movement stretching back decades, but the President has called these efforts, quote, dangerous, demeaning, immoral, and he's also targeting efforts to investigate extremism in the military's ranks.

Npr's Pentagon correspondent, Tom Bowman, joins us now to discuss. Tom, first off, just start off with the Defense Department's DEI programs.

What are they? Well, these programs have been seen as pretty effective in bringing more women and minorities into the ranks at all levels. President Biden chose the first woman, Senator Lisa Franketty, to run the Navy, as well as the first Black Defense Secretary, Lloyd Austin. But Donald Trump and his Defense Secretary nominee, Hegset, have dismissed these programs as woke and divisive. Another thing they question is extremist activity. My colleague Lauren Hodges and I talked about all this in our recent podcast, A Good Guy. It focused on an active duty Marine Sergeant Josh Abate, who was in the Capitol on January sixth, and pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Abate told the court in a written statement that he was wrong about the election being stolen. And by the way, a Marine panel voted to keep him in, and he's still on active duty.

What does that say then about understanding extremism in the military?

Well, first of all, it's important to note that about one in five of those who were arrested for January sixth activities had military backgrounds, nearly all veterans. Now, Pentagon officials have long insisted that they don't have an extremism problem, that the numbers are small, but they really don't know because they've never collected data. The services within Just within the last several months, said they would collect such data, and they outlined prohibitive behavior, such as joining militia groups, raising money for them, or attending rallies for extremist groups.

All this now brings us to Pete Hexon, death. That's President Trump's nominee for Secretary of Defense. What has he said about all this?

Well, he has been very outspoken, not only about his opposition to DEI programs, but also efforts to better understand whether the Pentagon and the military services have an extremism problem. Here he is at his confirmation hearing when he was asked about that by Republican Senator Kevin Kramer of North Dakota. Let's listen.

Things like focusing on extremism, Senator, have created a climate inside our ranks that feel political when it hasn't ever been political.

Those are the types of things that are going to change. Now, officials who worked on these anti-extremist efforts say, no, it's not political. It's not what politician you support or even ideas you might have. It's all about action. Again, like joining the militia groups, taking part in racist or anti-government rallies. But clearly, all these efforts to collect data on extremism will end.

All right, so, Hegg Seth, we'll get rid of DEI programs, those extremist fact-finding programs. What else do we expect from him should the Senate confirm him?

Well, we could see him making some personnel changes, maybe removing military leaders he believes got the job not based on merit, but because of their gender or race. Is concerned with people I talk with in the Pentagon, in the Office of Corps. At this point, we'll just have to wait and see.

All right, that's NPR's Tom Bowman. Tom, thanks a lot. You're welcome. Prominent climate activists in the United States were targeted several years ago in a global hacking campaign.

The Justice Department is trying to extradite someone it says is a key player in the story.

Npr's Michael is in London covering the latest developments. Michael, what took you to London?

I've been here for an extradition hearing. It's for an Israeli private investigator who's accused by the US of orchestrating a hacking operation against American climate activists. The private His name is Amit Forlet. He was arrested earlier this year at London's Heathrow Airport. We should say at the top, Forlet is previously denied ordering or paying for hacking.

All right, so a private investigator. Do we know who he was allegedly working for?

A British lawyer representing the US Justice Department said Forlet was allegedly working for an unnamed public affairs firm based in Washington, DC, and that that firm was allegedly representing one of the world's biggest oil and gas companies based in Texas, again unnamed. The lawyer said the oil and gas company wanted to discredit activists connected to climate change litigation.

The private eye was allegedly working for this public affairs company, which in turn was allegedly working for a big oil and gas company. Yeah, Exactly. Okay, but the US government hasn't named the companies.

No, it hasn't. We did hear from one of Forlet's lawyers this week. She said in court that the US is trying to prosecute Forlet for leading a hacking operation that was allegedly commissioned by a public affairs firm called DCI Group that was representing ExxonMobil. The Justice Department didn't respond to a message seeking comment. It hasn't accused Exxon or DCI of wrongdoing. Exxon and DCI declined to comment on being mentioned in court before the hearing in London. Both said an email NPR that they haven't been involved in hacking.

Why did you contact those companies before they were mentioned in court in London?

There have been media reports stating that the US has investigated DCI as part of its hacking probe. Before the London hearings, a source familiar with the probe confirmed to NPR that the US has investigated DCI's possible role in the hacking. The source wasn't authorized to speak publicly. Npr hasn't found what, if any, links the Justice Department thought DCI may have had with the hacking campaign, and we have not found any indications that the Justice Department investigated ExxonMobil.

It sounds like the government and journalists have been pursuing this hacking investigation for a while.

Yeah. The government investigation became public in 2019. A business associate of Forlitz was arrested in the US. He eventually pleaded guilty to hacking-related charges, and in 2023, a federal judge sentenced him to more than six years in prison. In that case, federal prosecutors said stolen information was leaked to the media and that ExxonMobil's lawyers used the media coverage to try to fight 8 state climate investigations. Federal prosecutors did not accuse ExxonMobil of any wrongdoing. The company said at the time that it had not been involved in hacking.

Okay, so where do things go from here?

It's been years since the hacking allegedly started, but the victims say it's critical for the US to find out who ordered it. Matt Powell is one of the victims and an environmental lawyer. He says finding out what happened is important for punishing whoever was ultimately responsible.

And for the purposes of deterrence so that this is not done again.

Deterrence to these big issues of living in a free society.

If we have a lot of hacking, then we're not going to live in a very free society because people are going to be afraid to speak out.

For now, we're waiting to see if the UK extradites Foreland. Another extradition hearing is expected in the coming weeks.

All right. That's NPR's Michael Copley from The Climate Desk. Michael, thanks.

Thanks, E.

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