Transcript of E531 Kevin Smith

All right, I've got new tour dates to let you know about. Oklahoma City, North Little Rock. Springfield, Missouri Kansas City, Missouri Sioux Falls, South Dakota. La Crosse, Wisconsin Green Bay. Moline, Illinois Colorado Springs, Colorado. Casper, Wyoming. I'm excited to get up there. Billings, Montana. Missoula, Montana Bloomington, Indiana Columbus, Ohio Champaign, Illinois Grand Rapids, Michigan Lafayette, Louisiana. And Beaumont, Texas. All tickets available through theovon.com. t o U R. Make sure to go through there so you are getting directly priced tickets. Make sure you're not at a secondhand site. And thank you so much for your support. We're excited to come visit. Today's guest is a filmmaker, writer, speaker, comic book aficionado. You know him from his films clerks Mallrats, Jay and silent Bob Dogma Tusk, and the list goes on. He has a new film out now called the 430 movie loosely based on his childhood in New Jersey. I'm thankful to spend time today with Mister Kevin Smith.

I'll sit and tell you my story shine on me and I will find a song I've been singing yeah, look at me. I'm in fucking monochrome.

Is that what that. That print is black and white. Oh, monochrome is black and white. Okay, sweet. Yeah. I didn't know that. I mean, I heard. I've heard of it before.

Fuck, yeah. Yeah.

But, yeah.

You're a smart guy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, I must.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm.

Yeah, don't fucking. Don't sweat you. You knew monochrome. It's just one of those things you didn't need. And then it happened, and you're like, why didn't I. But you did.

Yeah.

I've seen you speak. You're no dummy.

Yeah. It was always in there somewhere.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Probably used it. You probably busted it once or twice in your life.

Oh, I've definitely. I mean, I've been involved in some, like, it's not Ra. It's like the most racial of screens if it's monochrome. Right. It's black and white. Kind of. It's the. The apartheid of print.

Yeah. I scream it when I come. I'm like, monochrome. Because clerks was in black and white. Yeah. So everything ties back to clerks. Oh, only clerks. The only way I could come now is thinking of clerks.

Well, I love the mallrat shoes, man. Those are so. That's. I mean, that's really cool.

Did we start?

Yeah, we'll start. Who made those?

Are we started?

Yeah, we can. Is that okay?

Yeah, that's totally cool. Modern podcasting. I've not gotten the hang of, like, we started back in, like, 2007. We were doing smock cast. Yeah. And there was always, like, welcome to smock, guess. I'm Kevin Smith. I'm Scott Moser. So there was an official beginning, but lately, any podcast I've been on, you're just bullshitting, and all of a sudden, you're five minutes into a conversation. I'm like, oh, I bet you we started and shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's like. I think sometimes some places, things are a little more formal. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like if you start. If I say start, then it doesn't go as. I don't know what I mean. You're a director. What is that? Like, if you say, depends who you ask.

I like to think of a director. But you go out on the Internet, they'll tell you a lot fucking different. He was a director maybe once in his fucking first movie. Every day online, somebody tells me I'm terrible at my job. For the last, like, 30 years that I've been doing the job. You know what? That's. Yeah. What were you. Maybe you don't. You're like, I've never gotten a bad fucking review. Do you dig into your comments?

Yeah, no, we don't. I don't dig into too much, man. I was actually talking Joe Rogan. I spoke with him recently, and he was saying, don't read the good shit. Don't read the bad shit, bro.

Are we going to start dropping names this early in the process?

Sorry.

I mean, you just whipped out like a cock.

Yeah, like, fucking.

Who are you, Louis CK? I wasn't ready for that. All of a sudden we're talking Joe Rogan and shit. What? Why are we here? Like, I thought you were a Nashville person.

Yeah, I live in Nashville, yeah. But we kept our studio here, and so sometimes we tape here.

So you live in. Do you live in Nashville?

I live in Tennessee, yeah, full time.

Where in Tennessee?

I live just, like, right outside of the city. I live kind of by, like, Lipscomb high school.

You live near Nashville? Yeah, yeah, I fuck with Tennessee a lot. They like us there quite a bit. Like, I was just in Kingsport because we did the Smoky Mountain fan fest, and then, like, a month before that, I was in Knoxville. Like, anytime I go out and do shows, that's generally a place that I've always wound up. I was in. Can I tell you a fucking story real quick? So I was in. Recently I was in Kentucky. I went and did a show in Lexington.

Lexington's awesome.

Beautiful, right? So I'm, you know, I'm vegan. I hate saying that because everyone's like, fuck you. Now I'm eating twice as much meat. I'm like, all right, that's on you. Yeah. People don't, but I want vegan.

It's almost being stomach gay or whatever.

They they. I want. I had a heart attack six and a half years ago, so I wound up going vegan, and it helped. Used to be happy. Now I'm fucking vegan. So it's just part of, you know, it's just what I do. But I don't try to push it on people and shit like that. Like, when I started smoking weed back in the day, I was definitely, like, proselytizing for that. Like, oh, my God, you should try this veganism. I don't proselytize for. Because people get really triggered by the word now. If somebody's like, hey, man, how'd you lose that fucking weight? Or, you know, some people have been like, you fucking olympic bitch. I'm like, no, fuck. I went vegan after my heart attack. That's how the weight went away. Not because, like, you know, I necessarily tried, although I do now fucking walk over 10,000 steps a day. But, you know, I was like, I don't want to die, so let me try this. And I thought I'd do it for a few months and then go back. And then I never went back.

Being vegan, you mean?

Yeah, yeah.

Can you still have houseplants if you're a vegan?

Or is that like a weird absolute number one? I'm sure I am on some level an ethical vegan who should think about that. Like, I do love animals, so I'm sure that's some part of why it's easy for me to be vegan. But I was not one of those, like, I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do. I did it to save my fucking life and worked out shit. So even if I, like, you know, it was like, fuck, a house plant. I'd. I'd still go vegan. Where are you going with that houseplant thing, though?

Oh, I just didn't know if you were like a plant if you only eat because vegan means you can only eat.

The idea that, well, I'm plant based, okay, so is the idea that if I can't have a plant based. Cause I'm like, well, this is my friend, but I'm gonna eat them.

Well, it would just seem like they would catch up.

It would be like having a fish tank and eating. Being a person that eats.

Yeah. Being a pescetarian.

Pescetarian.

Yeah. I guess I was like, at some point that they're gonna catch on, you know what I'm saying? They're gonna be like, this guy's playing both sides of this net and the.

Plants are gonna start leaning forward out and shit. Get defensive. That's where the Venus Flytrap came from. A plant that was like, I must defend myself against a vegan.

That was one of the first craziest movies that I ever heard when I was a kid.

Little shop of horrors.

Yeah, little shop of horrors. It was like a weird musical about.

Like a Venus flytrap. Yeah, the Audrey too.

And had a plant.

That plant came out of space, though.

Oh, that.

You didn't lose a lot of sleepover, did you?

No, I didn't. I wasn't. I don't think it scared me. It was just interesting. It was like a little bit before my time, like, right. Like, we didn't. I don't know if I've ever seen it.

I remember off Broadway because I grew up, like, on the east coast.

Oh, you saw the musical?

Yeah. Like on stage and shit. Before it became this musical, which is awesome.

Oh, before it became a movie?

Yeah, yeah.

Wow. So it was a big musical first.

It was off Broadway hit. Was a big ass puppet. Like on stage.

Yeah, there's a picture of it right there, I guess.

Well, yeah, kind of. There's on stage the ones to the right in that one picture that looks like the stage show. Oh, I forgot. Like, again, modern podcast, you guys, like, have a screen and you spend an inordinate amount of time looking at images and videos and shit. That was something that never occurred to us in 2000.

Yeah, you just had to use your imagination.

We just talked to each other and there was also no real video component. Like that was the attraction of doing the podcast. It's like I can just fucking do it dressed like however I am. It's like voicing, animation or something. Yeah, but y'all have gotten it down to a fucking science. Like, I, you know, when I went to Tom Secora's place, fucking well, Joe, of course, and Bert. All y'all have free drinks.

Yeah.

Like, I was just out there and they're like, you want water? And that's kind of standard. And I was like, oh, yeah, or would you like Celsius? I was like, what do you mean? And there's a fucking Celsius cooler out there. Yeah, that is stock. It's more stocked than a 711. Whose fucking dick are you sucking to get that much Celsius, dude? What am I doing wrong, Theo? Vegan, it can be. You just don't swallow the meat, okay? You know what I'm saying? You put it in your mouth, you just don't swallow. Why on earth can I get this fucking podcast thing down to a science? I'm doing it.

But you were one of the premier. I mean, you were one of the early guys in Ithoodae.

Do you know what? Here's where I thought, and I've said this on other podcasts. So we'll do other things and shit. Von Werd, that's awesome. Like, I thought I was so smart. Cause I was like, oh, we'll do all these podcasts, and we give them out for free. And then when I'm in their town doing a live show, that's when they'll buy a ticket. Cause they've gotten all this free. And that was how I was like, and that's how we'll make money on podcasting.

So that was your strategy from the beginning?

You're saying that was my generation? I mean, it wasn't even my strategy. It was just like, really? It just started. Cause I was like, this is fucking fun. And me and Bojer sitting around, like, goofing off and having a microphone on fun conversations appealed to me. We always take snapshots of people and whatnot. There are pictures to memorialize a moment, capture a moment, but nobody ever really records a conversation and shit. A normal conversation if you're on tv, sure. So that's why I loved podcasts and the idea of doing that shit. And then one day, we had a lot of people listening to the podcast, and they were like, my business manager was like, you got a bill for a thing called the server. And it was, like, really high. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And it turns out podcasting free for everybody. But the fucking podcaster is, particularly if people watch the podcast and shit. So we were hosting on our own server. So we had to figure out, like, all right, what the fuck? How do we pay for this? And I was like, well, we could do it live.

We could start doing live shows. But even before that, like, I remember, like, we were. It was. It was so primitive when we were reverse engineering, going, like, what. What did they do in the early days of tv? Like, on 21, that game show, they had Jeritol as a sponsor. Maybe we should get an advertiser. We've been watching tv our whole lives. But when we're doing the podcast, it was less going. Like, perhaps someone will pay us to say things about their product like they did in the fifties.

It's a hard way of learning. It really was rudimentary.

It got harder because the sponsor we reached out to, the first sponsor we had was Fleshlight. Cause they had written me a letter after Zach and Mary Megaporno. Cause we had a whole fleshlight scene. And they were like, hey, man, if you ever want to do a fleshlight, like, fucking let us know. And I've still. One day I will do the Kevin Smith's mouth. Like, fuck him in the mouth. My own fleshlight. Yeah, that, you know, a fan.

Well, then people leaving angry comments can actually take it. You know what I'm saying?

A fan and an enemy, somebody who hates your shit, fan and a hater could both enjoy that. Like, fuck Kevin Smith or Kevin Smith. So they had written this really lovely letter and filed it away. Like, oh, that's cute. I. Flashlight.

You mean fleshlight?

And then when we needed to pay the server bill and shit, I said to Scott Mojo, I was like, man, what if we reached out to Fleshlight? Like, they. Maybe they'll sponsor our few shows if we like. And so they were way into it. Like, this was so early in the game. We're talking like 2007, maybe on the cusp of 2008.

Wow.

And so, so much so that Rogan called me, like, in 2010, going like, should I fucking use fleshlight? And I was like, for your dick? And he goes, no, for the show. And I was like, oh, number one, use it for your dick. It's amazing. I said, number two, definitely use it for the show. And so they started advertising on Joe's show, and then they start selling way more fleshlights. Cause they'd been with us for like, two years, and anybody who listened to us is like, we're fucking it already. Yeah, you know, it's its own market's got a glass ceiling, so to speak. But once he went to Joe, they shattered the glass ceiling. Joe Rogan shattered the glass ceiling for fleshlight. There's your fucking headline. That's what you don't get credit for. So we had to figure that shit out. And then, like, I remember trying to take it out on a live show. Like, I used to do Q and A's, just be by myself evening with Kevin Smith and shit like that. Yeah, kind of close to comedy, but more, I guess now they call it crowd work, where it's like, look, I need you to say something before I could be funny, and so I'd let the audience ask questions, then I'd go off and stuff like that.

Yeah, because I've seen you guys do live podcasts, and over the years, I mean, obviously seeing you do a lot of stuff, but just for the listeners who don't know, a server, it's like where you kind of host your podcast so that it can go out into the world.

So we were just on the server that our files were on. And the email, what is that used for the office? It was our. The view skew.com server. So we hosted a website, right. Viewski.com. so because of that, we already had a server up and running. So that's where we started hosting them. We didn't. Like, now you feed them into Apple podcasts. That shit necessarily didn't exist.

Oh, that's true. That might not even have been there, I'm telling you. So people had to get it. Like, it was almost like a am. Like a CB radio. Like, there were probably people listening on.

CB radio, distributing podcasts via carrier pigeon at that point. Like, we would roll up little things to their legs and set them off, and people in other cities would be like, I get it. I get it. It was weird going into a comedy club and going like, we want to do a podcast here. Like, because, you know, I toured so much by myself that when I asked my agent one point, I was like, hey, man, me and Moj want to go out and do spot cast in front of people, so can you hook it up? Like, in any of the gigs I normally do, but all those places didn't want to pay me what they normally paid me. They're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, well, I'm sitting next to my friend, and we're talking to each other, and they're like, and you're not gonna take questions? I was like, no, maybe, I guess. But that's not really part of the show. They're like, I don't know. That sounds risky. And so we had to fucking do the show for, like 70 30 splits, like, at very small clubs. Cause they were like, what do you mean, a podcast?

Like that kind of shit. So after the first tour, and then we put the shows out. Oh, shit, it's fun. And doing it with a live audience was this weird experience. Cause we'd always done it in a room like this with nobody but each other, entertaining each other, and then suddenly do it in front of people. You know, it's a world of difference.

Yeah, I mean, podcasts. The podcast. That was the n word of, like, whatever, you know, video audio communication or whatever for a while. Like, you wouldn't even say it. Or if somebody said he were like, this guy's an outlier, or this guy's a, you know, a pervert or whatever, you know?

I think this guy's a pedo. Yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, pedo cast? Is that what you fucking said? I remember when we did touch.

Yeah. We're here to catch. Have you seen all these videos? Every video now online is just like, this guy's here to meet a 14 year old. You see those videos all the time.

No. Is that right?

Yeah, sorry.

I mean, there's a tv show all about that. Yeah.

But they. Now it's like every. Everybody's a.

People are doing it.

Their own vigilante. It's so rogue. There's an.

What's his name?

Chris Hansen, which, to be fair, you.

Know, he's good at it, but.

Oh, he was the Stan Lee.

The stan Lee of pedo busting Chris Hansen. That's what it says. Chiron in every tv appearance.

Now it's Kevin, and now it's just. I mean, it's people. I mean, there's thousands of them that go up all the time. It's just, like, constantly. Tyrone came to meet a 13 year old girl. It's always at, like, a Walmart or something. But, yeah, it's a big business now. Or not, I shouldn't say. It's not a big bit. But catching these people, baiting them online yourself, people, just to create a. You know, and then get views and stuff like that.

It's a thing. Dark world.

But I interrupted you. But, yeah, that's so wild.

Tusk, our main character, was a podcaster.

Mm hmm.

And there were a bunch of.

Yeah.

Haley Joel Haley and. And Justin Long was the guy who got turned into a walrus. But, like, that, when we put the movie out there, there were some reviews that were like, he has a job I've never heard of before and shit like that. Like, now it feels like. Well, I mean, like, only murders in the buildings is predicated on podcasting.

Yeah.

Like, podcasting has become absolutely massive. But, yeah, I never figured out how to make money from it. Certainly not enough to have a fucking Celsius fridge.

Yeah.

What is that all about? How does that happen?

Dude? They mailed it one day, and the guys, they.

I want details, Theo. I can't just fucking gloss over this like that. That's the most impressive thing I've seen in a month.

Lord Celsius, I guess Senate.

Is that who was. What is he like? You know what? That's bad of me. I'm assuming it's a guy. Could be a lady. But I assume you would have called her Lady Celsius.

Yeah. Her Majesty. Yeah.

I don't know Celsius.

I can't.

The Empress Celsius.

Yes. The Empress Celsius. That's.

Fuck all this fooling around. How did you get that free shit? Tell me right now.

They. Yeah, we had a sponsorship with him and then they sent that at some point, and it's kind of like some of the guys have struck, you know, some of the guys can't move, turn their necks. Have had so much of it, it's fucking.

My kid introduced me to it. Cause she's like, it's vegan. You could drink it. I was like, right on. And kids are drinking it. Yeah, well, she's 25, I guess. I don't know if she counts as a kid anymore. But one day she came over and we were recording a podcast. We got podcast that's dropping on iheart. It's called Beardless dickless me. I get a free plug. But we were about to record and I cracked a Celsius. And she was like, how many of those you've had today? And I was like, this is the 10th. And she goes, what are you fucking nuts? It's an energy drink. And I was like, you said it was vegan. She's like, those two things are not mutually exclusive. She said, you're a fucking heart attack victim. She's like. And then she went online, like, the way you guys are. Like somebody's in another room fucking looking shit up. She immediately went online. She was like, my God, you can't have more than fucking two a day. What are you, nuts?

Yeah, they're very strong, man.

They're good. But they never felt that strong to me. Like, I never felt, like, hyped. But maybe you don't feel it. Maybe that's the thing about a drug, right? I've never been in the throes of drug abuse. Maybe I am and I don't even fucking know it.

I've.

I mean, you could be enslaved to Celsius.

I never met anybody that's had ten. My friend Brad used to work for Red Bull, and he's serious.

You've never met anybody that ten?

I've never met anybody that ten.

Run into wild crowd. And you're like, I watch videos that are fucking the dark web and shit. And you've never met anyone that had ten?

Not in one day, not even in one week? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I have a couple friends that probably have, but they. I just. We haven't talked about it, I guess. But the one thing that I was thinking about was my friend Brad used to work for Red Bull, and he said it there. Chris, there's a 1800 number. If people are like, have had too much Red Bull, or whatever they call, I guess, help.

Help me. What do I do?

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That happened to my wife was like weed. Once we were on the bus, we were in St. Louis doing some shows in St. Louis, and I had a bus in those days because I wouldn't fly because I got thrown off an airplane for being too fat. And so I traveled by bus, and everyone was like, you're like Madden, but I don't follow sports. I don't know what that is.

Were you too fat? Did they pull a scale out or how did they even do it? They just guess.

They. I. The way I understand it, years after the fact, was because somebody was like, hey, man, I work in the industry. I think this is what happened. Because they never flat out told me it was a packed fucking flight. I wasn't even supposed to be on that flight. I was supposed to go to next flight, but they had room. So I was like, ooh, fuck it. I'll get on this. When I walked down the jet way. Excuse me. Like, the one guy was like, where are you going? And I was like, they gave me a ticket, I'm getting on. And he's like, no, there's too many already. And I was like, well, the lady just gave me this. He's like, so I walked onto the plane, sat down. I was sat between, like, two women in, like, the bulkhead of, like, if you first walk in and you go to the left, that's. We were on the right side the plane, and, you know, I'm sitting there and shit and fucking buckled my seatbelt and whatnot, and the armrests were there, and I was definitely fucking weight heavier than I am now.

How much do you think you were?

Three. Three. I probably weighed my area code, which was three two, three. What? Yeah, I was as high as 300 3334 at one point. I think that's the biggest.

I went, we look like a healthy 185 right now.

It's between. I live between 185 and 200, depending on if it's a bread week or not a bread week and whatnot. If I'm breading up, then, like, I could kind of tend to bloat up. Yeah, but that was. Again, that was the heart attack. That was, like, after the heart attack, I was so fucking terrified of dying and shit. And actually, I wasn't at the heart attack. I was fucking cool about it. Like, I was always scared of dying and shit. And then on the table, like, the guy had told me, Doctor Ladenheim, my guy, my cardiologist, who just fucking retired, and he told me before he retired. I was like, well, now that you're going, what do I fucking do? Who's my new cardiologist? And he was like, Kevin, you don't need a cardiologist anymore. It was like the end of wizard of Oz. Like, you could have always taken care of your own heart. Just put your feet together or whatever the fuck. But he was going, like, you're past it now. He's going, now you just go to your regular internist, and then if you've got a problem, then you go to a specialist.

And I was like, well, I don't even have that. And so he introduced me to a new guy, but in any event, going way back to me on the table, that doctor, Doctor Ladenheim, he goes, you're having what they call widowmaker heart attack. You know what that is? And, like, it kind of self explanatory. But I was kind of. They had jet me up on fentanyl. So I was like, no, jeez, what is it? I was very chatty. And he was like, uh. It means in 80% of the cases where the patient has what you have, the patient always dies. But you're going to be in the 20% because I'm good at my job. And it disappeared into my crotch and made magic. That's how they get to your fucking heart is through your dick, isn't it?

No way. They use a catheter.

They go through catheter? No, well, they go through your femoral artery. They technically don't go through. Through your dick, but it's right next to your. His dick adjacent as close as possible. Like, if somebody was fucking, if you were like, lick me where they fucking put that fuck, but lick me on my femoral. You're closing up to the dick, where you might as well just fucking go over and give that one as well. So they went right through the femoral to the heart. And you know how they're always telling you, like, I'm waiting. A man's heart is stomach bullshit. Right through the fucking dick. Science, right? There's science. So he told me that. And, you know, I'd always been afraid of dying, but, like, you know, nothing I could do at that moment. Like, all the fucking damage had been done, whatever I had eaten, fucking my genetics, whatever fuck led me to that moment. So all the fucking, like, why in the world wasn't going to help. So I just started facing the fact, like, since I was looking up, I was like, this might be the last ceiling I see for the rest of my life.

And this may be the last room I'm in.

And what'd you wear?

I was wearing a hockey jersey because I was doing a special. I was doing a stand up special that eventually came out.

It happened on stage that you had.

A hard time not on stage. It was between two shows. Now, when you're going to tape a show, you shoot two shows, and they put the best of it together. We shot our first show, then I went backstage, and we had an hour before the next show. And in that hour, that's when it all fucking happened. I was, like, sweating. I was like, can't fucking quite catch my breath and shit. So while I was laying on the table, I got comfortable with the notion of dying. Like, dying suddenly, I was like, oh, shit, this is like graduation. Like, I left high school. Like, if I could leave this world, if I left high school, and high school was fun, and I hated to see it end. If I left that, you know, and shit worked out, I can leave this. There's an ending. Of course there's an ending to everything. There is a song. Fucking turn. Turn. You got.

Yeah. Beatles.

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I think it was the birds. But regardless, the. The. Somebody will look it up for you.

Yeah, it's a you. So.

So I was lying there, and I was cool with the notion of, like, fucking dying. I really total peace with it, where I was like, you know what, man? Like, I have my time. Like, and this is it. And, like, you had a real good life. Better than fucking most used of cool shit and whatnot. There I was.

Wow.

I was like, so if this is.

The case, you look handsome for a dying guy.

Not bad, right? Well, I was on stage previously, right?

Oh, that's true.

Right off stage. No makeup is still, but still. So I was like, if this is it, this is it, you know, like, you push back from the table, don't be the last guy at the party that's like, hey, man, you got any more beer? Like, fuck off. And you had your time. So I was cool with that. So I was okay with that. Utterly at peace. I was like, if it ends, it ends.

Did you talk to anybody before?

Sorry, just a doctor. Just the guy who was in my fucking crotch.

Did you write a note to a kid or to your children or anything?

No. Cause it was. It all happened so fast. Like, my wife wasn't there, the kid wasn't there. They didn't find out until after the fucking fact and shit. So the only thing.

So they had to get you on the table immediately, as soon as I got to the.

They took me. Picked me up from an ambulance from the Alex Theater in Glendale and took me. They're supposed to take me to a closer hospital as per the shoot schedule. Like, whenever you shoot a thing, there's like, this is where you got to go if somebody gets hurt. That hospital was closer, but the. The first responders, the medics picked me up. Motherfuckers saved my life. I don't even know their names. I gotta figure, you know what? I gotta go out and find their names. Yeah, these two kids came in backstage the Alex theater, and they were trying to put leads on me and shit.

What's leads?

You know, like the. On you. On your chest, so they can measure your heart rate or whatever the fuck. So I was wearing a hockey jersey, and again, I was way heavier and shit. And they lift up my shirt. I'm like, whoa, man. Fucking. You never do that to a fucking heavy dude.

Yeah, let me.

What are you talking about? We got to get these on you. I was like, well, fucking. I'll hold it out. You reach under, but there's too many fucking people in shit. So they did that. And once they took a reading, like, I do remember the woman looking at the man like, you know, an unspoken look. You know, I'm supposedly. I'm a director for a living and shit. So sometimes you got a frame somebody show or whatever, something like that. You know, fucking. Just one of those wasn't that shifty where it's like, uh oh, was that mean? But I did see a glance between them, and then my man goes, you know what? We're gonna take you to the hospital. And I was like, oh, please don't do that. This is embarrassing. He goes, no, just in case. He's going, look, it'll help me. Like, it'll look good for me in my job and stuff. And he's like, you never. You ever been to that hospital before? I was like, no, I visit people. He goes, oh, you're gonna love it. It's gonna be great.

Like, you're gonna love it, huh?

He was selling it, man.

Maybe it was for a big farm or something.

Well, he thank God that dude made the call. He did. And her, the two of them, the two megs, and they chose not to go to the hospital they were supposed to take me to. They went to one that was a little further away because they knew that was the one where heart people went. And thank God they took me to that one and that guy who saved my life, Doctor Lydenheimer Ladenheim he was. He, like, got pulled in at the last minute and shit. Like, all of it, like, worked out. But I saw another doctor, doctor Paula, like, months later, man. Like, after this all happened, after it happened, I went on Colbert and told the story. I told the story for years and shit like that, right? So I finally see Doctor Paul because we're gonna go make Jane Silent Bob reboots. This is, like, 2019, and she's a doctor. You see, before you go make a movie or something that clears you, you know, especially for the director, because you've got it. You got it. They gotta insure you for the whole run of the show. Since I just had a massive heart attack, the insurance company was like, make sure this motherfucker could direct.

Like, we know he can't direct. Like, we've read the reviews, but, like, make sure he can direct on set. So when I came in to see her, she was like, oh, my God. Look at you. She's going, I heard about your story. I saw you talk about it on tv everywhere. You talk about the heart attack. I was like, yeah, I know. And she's going. And you keep talking about how, like, it was 80% chance of dying. I was like, yeah. She's going, I'm going to tell you right now. She's going to tell you a story I've wanted to tell you ever since I heard about your heart attack. She's going, you know, I used to be in cardio, and I was like, get out of here. She's. Yeah. And there were four of us working at cedars on a heart patient, you know, open heart. We're having the surgery, and all of a sudden, right in the middle of it, massive widowmaker strikes. And I was like, well, if you're open heart surgery and have it in the hospital before doctors goes, not the patient, one of the doctors drops to the fucking floor, has a massive heart attack.

Wow.

And I was like, well, at least three other doctors. And cedar sign as she goes. That's the point of the story, is we lost them. She said we had all the talent in the world and all the tools to save a human being. But when it comes to the widowmaker, it ain't up to the doctor. She's going, I love Doctor Leighton, but you give him a lot more credit than he probably deserves, because he did his job right. But it ain't even up to him at the end.

Damn, he's not even any good.

I mean, he's good enough. Cause I'm here, so I'll always believe in him. But she was like, that thing makes up its mind and does what it's want what it wants. She's going, so she's gone. I heard you say 80%. She's gone. I just wanted to correct you. That's not true. I was like, I always thought that was high. She goes, bullshit. It's 83%. 80. 317. She's like, 83%. Patient goes, she's going, so you're here for a reason. Keep telling that story. She's going. Because people don't know. She's like, the way you talk about it and shit. That's how most people think about it. It's true. For the last five, six years, man, like this. No bullshit von Ward. I love that.

Yeah, somebody made that for us.

Fucking awesome.

Very sweet of them.

I was walking on running recently. I got these two german shepherds walking them up around you, birdie and lucky. And this tall dude stops me, and he goes, hey, man, you know, I have my headphones in. He goes, hey. And I say, hey, what's up? And he's like, I just wanted to tell you, like, you have saved at least six lives at my job that I know of. And I was like, oh, wow. And he goes, I work at Kaiser. I've had at least six people come in with heart ailments that reference you. He's going, sometimes they know exactly who you are. They'll say, Kevin Smith. He's going, a lot of times, I'll be honest, they say, Kevin James, but they're talking about you. Sometimes they go, he's the guy. You don't say nothing in movies. He's going, but all of them have heard you talk about it. And because they did, they were like, I should go in just in case. And he's going, these people would have died otherwise. He's going, so keep doing what you're doing, man. And so when I got out, you know, I went. I was in the nut house, like, a year and a half ago.

And so when I got out of there, like, I put up a video magazine and shit.

Sorry.

It happens.

I mean, everybody get there, one. Oh, I'm here. Yeah, I could be there this afternoon, but I'm hearing, well, not with that.

Free fucking Celsius, man. You're living on Easy Street, Theo. There are those of us who have to fucking pay for Celsius. How much I pay for those? 289 a can. This motherfucker. Can I come in? He goes, take as many as you want. I was like, hello, new best friend. I want to work on your fucking show, I'll just greet people. Like, there's a nice dude who greeted me in the fucking parking lot goes, oh, man, I'm a big fan. Like, I loved your movies when I was a kid and shit. I'll be that guy. Especially if I get to walk home with, like, fucking, oh, twelve packs.

Float home, dude, there's looking for free money, dude.

I ain't that kind of, like, fucking all of our bagger, but just. Just. I just want to wet my biggest.

Yeah, just drip a little on my tongue. They, um. The. Yeah, all of our cabinets are filled with it. They've sent too much, actually. So what?

Yeah, don't fucking say shit like that. I'm telling you. Like, fucking how I. I thought I knew. I thought I had the podcast and came down to a science. And you're like, we have so much celsius, we flush it down the toilet on a regular basis.

I'm like, no, yeah, I'm gonna start throwing cans of it into a schoolyard. You know what I'm saying? Fucking make it rock.

Fuck Kevin Smith. Why you don't go here? Watch the show. You'll understand.

I'm just gonna write, get an ekg, just throw it into an elementary school. So what?

Good. I don't live here or work here, bro. Because I'd be doing.

Yeah.

I was amazed at being like, hey, theo, man. Someone's in the parking lot. They really want to be on the show.

I'm like, dude. Oh, that's a shadow, bro.

You're good, though. It tastes.

Oh, no, it tastes really good. I'll have some, too, actually, I don't.

Well, don't fucking. You know, don't follow me into the hole, dude.

He'll bring.

I got one here if you take.

Yeah, we have some of it.

Can I get that again?

Galaxy vibe.

This one I want cosmic. And next I want to go galaxy.

We have.

I'm tasting them all. You understand, man? Fucking this shit. 239 cans. So sometimes I'm in the 711. I'm like, I want to try cosmic vibe. But 239 is expensive, so now I know I could just come here if I can do a taste test, sample them all.

What about mediocre vibe?

What about.

How much is that fucking.

That's what I sell. Oh, wait, let me. I got school. I never finished my Lexington story. Yeah, and all started, I veered off cost, of course, because you went in there vegan.

But. No, but the heart stuff, right?

Yeah, but hold that. Fuck. Let me finish the. Because this makes me laugh.

Okay, this.

Cause this fucking happened. So. So I'm in Lexington, and I. Oh, you rock. Fucking night, man.

There you go, dude.

My man's hustling. Cause he heard me, like, gunning for the job. I was like, I'll fucking be one of those guys. He's like, oh, fuck that. We got vans. See, I'm halfway there. So there I am in Lexington, and I got an app on my phone if you're a vegan. Which, again, I'm not pushing on people. It's just I do it to save my life. It's called happy cow. Wherever you are, you enter a thing. Like, I'm where I am. And they'll tell you places you can find vegan food. Vegan, great. It's helpful, right? So I'm in Lexington. I fucking enter, you know, Lexington, Kentucky? The app laughs at me and shit because they don't believe in that shit there at all. So there ain't no fucking vegan food to find. Except you go Burger King, get an impossible whopper without cheese. Or my kid told me, oh, white Castle does impossible slaughter. So I was like, fuck, I'm gonna go to White Castle, man. I passed a white castle.

Yeah.

I was like, so I go into the White Castle in Kentucky, and I go up to the counter. I'm like. And I look up, and there's impossible sliders. I said, can I get six impossible sliders? And lady looks at me, and then she looks up at the menu. She's like, I don't know. She goes, hold on. Then she goes into the, like, the freezer case for five minutes, then comes out with a frozen ass fucking box with, like, fucking looked like ice, man. Like, fucking. They unearthed it from the fuck print. Primordial man trapped in ice.

Like, from that lawyer.

Yes. And she was like, this is going to take a minute. And we don't do these a lot. I was like, that's cool. I'll wait. So I'm sitting at the counter, and all of a sudden I hear, no, no. And, you know.

But, you know, somebody got their period at work.

Exactly. And I'm like, good thing I carry tamponse. Here you go. Usually when you hear that, that's somebody going like, hey, it's. It's you. I don't always assume that, but being that we're in a white castle in Kentucky, I'm like, either there's a fight about to break out, or I've just been made. And that's fair. I look like Silent Bob at all times and shit. So I turn around. Not, like, egotistically, like, well, of course it's me, but I'm pretty sure that that hay is directed in my direction. Yeah, no, no. And I turn around, he goes, just at White Castle. And I was again, he goes, oh. And he comes over and he hugs me, and he's, like, blazed as fuck. He's almost like a character out of one of my flex and shit stoned. His traveler of the green. Absolutely lovely. And he goes, you don't remember this, but you took me to the movies once. And I'm like, oh, 20 years prior, I was doing a show at the University of Kentucky or whatever, and it was when changing lanes was coming out, Ben Affleck movie. So I was like, I'm here for two nights, you know, so tomorrow I got nothing to do.

I'm gonna go see changing lanes at this multiplex. Anybody wants to come, I'll buy you a ticket and shit. I thought, like, fucking ten people would show up. 11:00 in the morning, 200 fucking people. So I wound up having to pay for a theater full of people and shit. And it ran an article or story ran about in Entertainment Weekly where, you know, they were like, there's a huge bump for changing lanes in Kentucky, and that's because Kevin Smith took people out. So that dude was there, and I was like, holy shit, man. That's fucking nice, seeing. That's crazy. Like, I never run into people from that. And he goes, he goes, I love Affleck, man. He's going, because he's talking about changing. It's a good thing you did for your boys. Go, I love Affleck. He's my Batman. I was like, yeah, man, he's all of our batmans and stuff. And he goes, he's really going through it right now, our boy, isn't he? Now he's our boy. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean, I seen some articles and stuff. And he goes, we should call him. And I was like, um, yeah, we don't know.

Yeah, now, you know, as previously mentioned, like, I lost my mind a year and a half ago. Went to a mental hospital for a while. Found out at the root of all my issues is I'm a very codependent people pleaser. Crazy. So I came home and told my wife that. She's like, marriage is codependent. I'm like, all right, but really, any doctor will tell you not right. So I don't know how to, like, feel about myself. I need you to tell me how I feel about me. I don't put on my own mask first. I'm gonna put your mask on. I gotta take care of everybody before I fucking take care of myself. Because I learned at a young age that I'm only useful if I show utility. If I'm like, I can be useful. I could do this for. I could make you laugh. I can fucking take care of your bills. I could do this. That is how I know that I'm a worthwhile human being.

Yeah. Like, there's no just natural value. Unless I'm producing something.

Yes. Unless I'm useful to somebody, what the fuck am I doing? And stuff. So, you know, as I'm sitting there and a guy's going, we should call them. You know, a normal human being would be like, well, absolutely. That's out of the question. Yeah, but my people pleasing nature is like, I guess we should, shouldn't we? Like, I don't want to let this guy down. This guy, who I haven't seen in 20 years. Don't know his name. And he just started going, no, no, in White Castle. So I was like, all right, best of all possible worlds. Let me see if I could get this going. So I was like, all right, you know, I'm gonna call him. So I pull out my phone and I called Jason muse instead. And so I called Jason, and I'm like, ben, hey, man, it's Kevin. I'm in Kentucky at a white castle, and there's a dude here who I took to see changing lanes 20 years ago. And then I go, Ben, hold on. Jason muse is texting me. I pull the phone away, and I text to Jason, be Ben Affleck on speaker. And then I hope I go back to the phone, and I go, Ben, Jason's fine.

He says, hi. Anyway, I'm gonna put you on speaker. Say hi to my man here. So I put him on speaker, and I was like, go ahead. My man goes, Ben, man, how you doing, man? How you doing? And he goes, muse, who has worked with Ben Affleck, is friends with Ben Affleck, went to his fucking wedding and shit like that, knows Ben and what he sounds like. This is Jason Muse's approximation of Ben Affleck on the phone. Yo, yo, yo, this is Big Ben Affleck coming at you like he was a strip club dj. And so this guy goes, Ben, man. Like, I've been reading. Like, guy bought it. Like, he's like, Ben, I've been reading. Like, I feel bad for you, man. You gotta. You gotta just hang in there, man. And he goes, and then muse goes, well, you know what they say. Affleck was the bomb and phantoms, yo, there's a line from Jay and Bob. Strike back. And that guy went nuts. He was like, oh, my God, he said that thing. And I was like, he always says that thing. And then. So I was like, we gotta. We're gonna, we're gonna go.

And then Jason goes, yeah, I gotta go, too. Matt Damon's taking me to target. Bye. And hung up. And that dude was so delighted, man. So delighted. And he goes, that's awesome. He's going, that was a good thing to do for your friend. He feels good now. We gave him support. I was like, yeah, you're absolutely right. And then he's like, what about muse? Can we call Jay now? And I was like, mercifully, the lady was like, six impossibles. Yes. Thank you. And out I went and stuff.

Oh, that's a sweet story, dude.

That may happen because I was vegan, bro.

Oh, it's true.

So that's my. There it is. Go vegan. No, don't.

That's your pitch for veganism?

My pitch, if I had to pitch for it, it would be like, you know, this is the. Most people approach things from a position of vanity, right? Like, fucking. They don't really truly care about, like, their health. They just want to look better.

Oh, that's interesting.

I feel that's generally the case. So, look, it was definitely the case with me.

And if we look better, we will feel better.

One imagines. But really, it's not like my whole life, prior to the heart attack, I've been on a zillion diets and fucking optifast did everything but the surgery because I'm fucking scared of, you know, getting cut and shit like that.

So the lap band surgery, you mean? Yeah, yeah.

So, like, you know, I've been that person that's like, man, what's the secret? How do you do it? And for years, people have just been saying, like, oh, you gotta eat less and you gotta exercise a lot more. I'm like, yeah, I know, but what's the real secret? Shit. I was never interested in being healthy. I just wanted to look normal like everybody else.

Yeah.

And now, like, I've lost weight, but I don't look normal like everybody else. If I took my fucking gear off and shit, like, I didn't sound like I got any surgery. Like, I got all this excess fucking skin that just hangs.

Does that start to go away, that skin?

No.

Can you put, like, vitamin E oil on it or something?

I mean, maybe the stretch marks might go away, but, like, that hanging skin that just hangs.

Is there any way to absorb it back in or anything?

I think so. With the aid of unstable molecules, if we were in a marvel fucking comic. But no, bro, no. The skin being an organ, it just fucking distends. And if you distended it, that's it. So you could do this shit.

But that's crazy.

Well, this is when you go under the knife and they cut it off. And I've had a friend of mine, you know, I'm not a liberty to say, but a friend of mine went through that, and a friend of mine was like. Cause my friend lost a lot of fucking weight. I think he's talked about it, you know? Yeah, but. But he was like, I know you, dude, and I know you. Threshold for pain. He's going, you never, ever want to do this. He's going, in retrospect, I would never do it again. He's the most pain I've ever been in my entire life. So. All right. We won't put it on if he hasn't said it publicly. Yeah, yeah, but, right, but, but, yes.

So, wow, that guy.

Yeah, he's my boy.

That's amazing. He.

If you go to the picture on the right, you can see, like, the one all the way over that was just there. Sorry. Yeah, that one. Like, there's the. The drapey skin, the creeping effect they call interesting. So he looks good. I killed look like that shit. That'd be amazing. Mine is just hanging. Like, mine's like, remember the scene in the shining when fucking Nicholson goes to the one room and the gorgeous lady gets out of the tub and they start making out, and all of a sudden, he looks at her, and she's like, ah. And she just doubled. Like she got droopy. Fucking. That's what I look like where I take my girl. So that's what my wife gets to.

Damn. Hey, lucky her, dude. It's almost like fucking, like one of those cats. It doesn't have any hair on it, kind of.

Right, right. I mean, some. And some people like that sort of show. That's my wife. I always talk about my wife in regards to, like, you know, people ask various people about, like, how do you succeed? When I'm doing Q and A's or whatever, and I was like, it's, you know, success. You can't guarantee that anyone's ever gonna be interested in your bullshit. I don't care who you are. Kevin Feige, that guy that makes all the Marvel movies and shit, Kevin Feige is Kevin Feige. So probably the most successful producer history, the only Kevin who must be saved at all costs, because those movies rock. Even when Deadpool, Wolverine was about to open up, which is now making, what up, 1.3 billion? Guarantee you, Kevin Feige still clenched his asshole and was like, man, I hope they show up, because nobody knows for sure, and they've actually experienced one or two movies where the people didn't show up. So in a world where you can't guarantee that an audience is going to show up, the only audience member you can go out of your way to please is audience member number one. That thing only exists because you want to do it.

So if you love it, that's how you have to proceed. It's like, I did this for me, and I love it. And this is my expression and stuff. And, man, I hope others go for it, but this is as good as it's ever going to get. You can't count on people showing up and stuff. So in a world where, like, you can't count on an audience showing up. Do the thing that nobody's seen before. Nobody's looking at. Tell your story. I always tell folks, like, you know, when I'm out there, like, your voice is your currency, man. Like, your voice is how you see the world, your perspective, and how you spit it back to the world. It's very unique. Theo has a distinctive fucking voice. Every comedian has a very distinctive voice. You hope. Most storytellers do and stuff, public speakers generally. Why people gravitate toward them over and over again is like, I like their perspective. I like what they say. That is, as we're sitting in a place where I could drink any fucking celsius, I want proof positive that fucking. Your voice is your currency. Because Theo is spending his fucking currency.

His voice has built all this. After that Celsius, I'm like, you must be the richest man I know.

But we had a.

Don't understand cooler. It's a talk.

It's new. It's like a New York City apartment. It really is.

Somebody would pay at least $1,400 for that. Where do you go in Jersey? Cause you're a fucking road king. You're out there.

I've been out there for years in Jersey. Where do I go?

I've seen. For years, whenever I've been at a club, I've seen your name and shit like that. Oh, now I don't see your name at the clubs anymore, son.

Same. Yeah.

You're in the bigger fight venues.

Started getting into bigger venues.

Oh, heavens. Yeah.

And that's been interesting.

So where's Jersey for you? Where do you do a show?

Jersey? Let me think. Red bank?

Yeah. That's half my fucking town, bro.

Really?

Number one, where I was born. Number two, where Jay and Sal and Bob's secret stash, the comic book store I've had for 27 fucking years, is in that town. So you're talking about doing the Count basie?

Yes.

Count Basie theater and the vogels, right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's where we went.

Next time, no bullshit. Next time you do Count Basie, please let me know. I have a movie theater that's like fucking 20 minutes from there. 15 minutes.

Hey, you grew up. You had something. You grew up going to a movie.

Theater that I grew up going to with my friends and whatnot. The one my dad took me to when I was a kid and whatnot. The one where I.

So cool.

Oh, it's beautiful. And they were gonna kill it and close it after Covid, it's over 100 years old. So me and my friends got in and saved it. It's called Smock Castle Cinemas and whatnot. And we do shit all the time. We just did vulgar Thon, which is like, show every view, skuniverse movies, clerks, mallrats, chasing Amy, Dogma Jane, Silent Bob Schragback, clerks two, Jane, Silent Bob reboot, and clerks three. So eight movies, 16 hours of movies. We started at, like, Saturday morning at nine. We finished Sunday at, like, five in the morning. 700 fucking people in four different theaters and shit like that. Nobody.

That's awesome, dude.

So it's fun for shit like that. So we've. We've had comedy there. I've done shows there. We've, somebody shot a stand up special there and whatnot. So if you're gonna be in fucking Red bank, oh, my God, I'll bring you over and we'll do a, like, watch with theo thing. You pick a favorite movie and shit. We'll show it. And then you show up, and then we just sit around. Bullshit, dude.

I would probably pick family man. I like that movie. Have you seen it with Nicolas Cage?

Yeah. It's beautiful. Fucking. Oh, that's really. As a Brett Ratner movie that a lot of people never talk about anymore.

I lie. I thought that was one of his.

I remember correctly, but I remember the movie. It's very. It's a wonderful life is.

Yes.

Capra esque.

It's kind of like that vibe.

Is that the shit you fuck with?

Yeah. I really let's like that. That. That's probably my favorite movie, I think. I like League of the Rhone.

I love. I fucking lived across the street from Penny Marshall for years. And when I was, like, in my heyday of podcasts and whatnot, I, you know, we started doing at the house all the time. So she came over again. She, like, lived right across the street.

And Penny Marshall bring her up.

I got to talk to her about league of their own. Just sit there. Because Penny Marshall had this brilliant, like, every once in a while, directors hit strong in threes and have, like, bang, bang, bang. Penny Marshall had big awakenings and a league of their own back to back to back.

She's a pretty fascinating lady.

Just. This was Laverne and Shirley. She was Laverne of Laverne Shirley. And then she became a director later and spent most of her. Her career as a director. After doing that show for what, ten.

Seasons or whatever, dude, we went and saw. We went to the town where. Where? Rockford. We went to Rockford, Illinois, and went to the museum there and went and saw, like, all the Rockford Peaches memorabilia. Shit.

Are you serious?

Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty cool stuff.

Love that movie. Do you cry when you watch that movie? Are you allowed to cry?

League of their own?

Yeah. Are you. Are you fucking butch, dude?

No, I cry a lot.

I get made fun of on the Internet for crying. For. Not only just crying, but then I post pictures of myself crying. Like, oh, Black Panther two. And I came out and I took a picture in front of the poster and I was teary eyed two days fucking. The Internet was like, you cuck. Fuck. Like, how dare. They were very angry at me for that.

Yeah, I cried. I mean, if I saw it. Yeah, I mean, I'll cry all the. I mean, yeah, I've cried.

But you won't put it out there.

I've been crying. I mean, yeah, there's too many clips of me crying online.

Is that right? What makes you cry?

Oh, just like, thinking about stuff or talking about stuff. Like, I don't know, like earlier we were talking about, like, people pleasing. Like, thinking about.

Do you got issues? Got mih issues? Mental health.

Oh, yeah. First of all, hold on, there's a couple questions I wanna ask, so don't forget. One is, what are some of the signs if people are getting sick or something that you feel like you neglected so that people can.

Heart attack side or head side?

Heart attack. Heart attack.

Heart attack. Sweating profusely, which I did quite a lot as a man who was over 300 pounds. Not being able to catch your breath. I refer to it as. I couldn't quite ring the bell. Like, you know, you bang and fucking bing. That game at the fucking fair. Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Felt like I'd be like, bang. Hitting it hard, and be like. And then just come back down. So I couldn't hit the top. Couldn't quite catch my breath, so to speak. I was looking for the numbness in the arm because I was raised watching fucking Sanford and son. So, Elizabeth, this is the big one. That's what he always did. Clutch his arm and did this shit that never happened. Never felt that nausea. Also, like, I wound up throwing up and I didn't have anything in my stomach, so it was just bile. Um, these very subtle things that, like.

I hate bile, dude.

Totally. But you would. You could mistake that for, like, I was nervous or fucking. Maybe I had some bad milks. I was a big milk drinker in those days, so you could.

Oh, there's nothing. Watching a big fella drink milk, dude. Can we just.

You would have been turned on, bro. Seriously. I don't know how. Which way you swing. You would have watched me drinking the milk on the beard and stuff. You've been like, I'm going, bear. You're a total otter type. And it could have worked.

An otter in the gay community.

Yeah, I had to. Yeah. Like, Scott Moser. People would always tell me, hey, man. He's. There you go, son. Come on. That looks like a good time. And I know a lot of people would look at that and be like, this guy's fucking nuts. But he's living his best fucking life. Have you ever been that happy? I've been listening to, like, that fucking song that was at the end of. Of guardians of the Galaxy three. And that's Florence and the machine. And it's happiness here. Keep going. Like a bullet to the bullet in the back. Let's just stop and appreciate the poetry of that line, all right. Happiness hit her like a bullet in the back. When was the last time you were ever hit by the happiness? Bullet in the back?

That's a good question, man. I went to this recently. I went to this, like, because you.

I'm sure every day you wake up and you're like, I'm Theo fucking Vaughn. Like, holy shit, my mouth. I use my mouth on people. And I'm rich now.

Yeah. And it's not for BJ. And.

Well, Oral's oral, my friend. You're in the mouth service business. Paint it any way you want. We're all whores.

Yeah, being chatty is just drawn out blow.

Satisfied with the job and stuff. I'm talking about, like, true fucking happiness. That has nothing to do with who you are. Like, my friend Scott Moser at one point, he was just like, what do you want to do? If you could do anything in the world?

And this is my cast co host.

Yeah. One of the smartest people I've ever known. He said, if you could do anything you wanted, he's going, you almost died a few years ago. If you do anything you wanted, what would make you happy? And he goes, but it can't have anything to do with being Kevin Smith for a living or the movies or any of that. He's going, I'm just talking like normal ass shit. And that fucking, that rocked my world for a few days. I couldn't come up with an answer, necessarily the best answer I could come up with was I was like, what would make me happy? Like, if I had a conversation with my father and he's dead 20 years, and not because I'm like, we could settle issues, but that'd be fucking wonderful and shit. But I had to reach into fiction, into the impossible, to find something. And I would ask other people, I asked my brother, my brother, without missing a beat, he's like, oh, I'd go on a world cruise. And I was like, what's that? He's like, it's exactly what it sounds like. You just cruise around the world for like a year.

Yeah, on a boat.

But he knew. And other people I talked to were like, oh, I do this, it's a good thing. And there were normal ass things that are within one's doing. And I think my fucking radar is busted. And I imagine yours is as well, because the idea of what makes others happy or what makes a person happy, shattered. When you can wake up and whimsy about something and create it and just by dreaming about it and doing it or putting the podcast together, sitting around speaking your mind, you've gotten paid and you've gotten a bunch of people going like, we fucking, like, we support you and shit like that. When that scale exists, it's I found and I the more I speak to other creatives, like, after fucking going to the mental hospital, now I feel freer to talk to others about it and shit, where it's like, I'm not saying, like, life can't make you happy, but when you've had that ability and there's a certain happiness that goes along with financial success, creative success, personal success, when your highs are like, oh, let's get Alan Rickman to be in dogma. It's tough to find a normal high, you know what I'm saying?

Like, yeah, it's interesting, man.

I think. Is that 1% fucking rarefied view thinking?

No, I don't know if I feel.

Does that make me instantly unrelatable?

No, I just think it makes it make sense. Like if you, if you've had interesting things that would, most people would seem like are, would make people happy or we all believe would make us happy, then it makes sense then that you might have a tougher time finding certain happiness, you know? I don't know what I would do. Probably like something that would really, really make me happy. I don't know.

Isn't that crazy? You can ask anybody. Listening to the show, giving a hug.

To my brother or something like that. Or taking a walk with my brother somewhere.

Is your brother, your brother, you brother type?

Yeah, we're close. So I think something like that. What else? Spending time with like a teacher or something that I grew up with. Yeah, probably if I got to see my dad again or something like that. I mean, that's, you know, my dad passed away too, so, like, yeah, I think if there was something like that, I think it would make me, like, really happy. Maybe having a crazy that we have.

To reach into the grave to be like, well, that would make me really happy.

Yeah.

But also the impossible.

Being in love with somebody, probably.

Are you? Are you?

No, I'm not. I have a tough. Yeah, I have a tough, like, dick. I wish.

Huh? Tough dick. Chicks are like, I ain't into that tough dick shit. That's what my dick does.

Tough. My dick has a brass, just one brass knuckle on it. No, I don't know. Yeah, probably having a family, being able to be happy and have a family, shit like that.

Wouldn't one brass knuckle essentially be a cock ring?

It probably would.

You know what? I think I like your cell better because cockring, some people, I don't fuck with that. But if you're like, how would you like one breast knuckle on your dick? A lot of people like, as long as it's my choice. I don't want your breast knuckle on my dick.

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It's honestly like I was into that shit. Like, if you watch mallrats in 95, it's a big part of it and stuff. And the culture wasn't like, the culture was like comic books. Those are for kids. I just got real fucking lucky in that, you know, about 15 years ago, the culture shifted into all the shit that I was already into and well versed in. So I got, like, a free fucking ride for about a good 1520 years on a geek train that, like, I never had to make a comic book. Right. I've directed some comic book shows like Supergirl, Flash and stuff like that. But, like, really, it's just I was insanely well positioned because I was waving the flag for this shit when I. People were like, what do you mean?

Yeah. Yeah. That's lucky. When you do culture. Yes. It's the same feel.

That is where you are right now.

No, I see.

Do you feel you were an overnight success or it was like ten years of a thing before fucking.

Oh, yeah, it was for. It was a long time.

You don't feel you're in the fucking zone right now? Like, in terms of, like, the man has met the moment and vice versa?

I don't know. I guess because I don't know what my. What my end goals are. Sometimes I see it when I look at a guy like Joe Rogan, to drop his name again. And you can use it a few times, too, but because he got into UFC and that rose and I think it rock.

Yeah, and. But I also saying I'm Joe Rogan, but I too.

But it's. What I'm saying is a labor thing.

Love.

Just like, that's what I'm saying. Once again, though, it reminds me of.

That he found a way to monetize his passions where I think he's probably indispensable to the UFC. When he comments, do they pay him?

I'm pretty sure they have a. They must have a deal.

Like, overall, not only. He may have put in the work and shit, but now he's. Financially.

He was fighting. He was in on it early. He trained early on, started talking. I remember going like, the kids at my school that you knew were going to probably die young or whatever they say. They were the ones watching that on the weekend. Like, come watch it. It's like, it's like, you know, Willie the fucking, you know, short Willie versus fucking, the short Willie versus the violent homo or something like, that's like, who are these guys? And it would be like one guy would be like 400 pounds fighting a guy that was like 120 pounds, and it would just be like a massacre, you know? But that's when the UFC, there wasn't weight classes, all of that.

And look at. Look at him. What a puppy. It's like his news radio days.

Yeah. I mean, he was a my.

Believe me, I understand who Joe Rogan is today, and I love that, but.

But, you know, back then, well, I.

Mean, my first introduction to Joe Rogan was on news radio, and I fucking love news radio. It's one of my favorite sitcoms ever produced. So I've watched, and they only had about four seasons max or something. So you could, it's not like, you know, fucking friends where you can do twelve seasons, you could get through it. You can go day and then start it again and shit. So Joe was like, that's how I first knew him and knew about him and stuff. And then the podcasting thing, you know, I remember going on the show in the early days, and every time I've ever been on, and he's, you know, clearly there's a reason why the fucking man is at the top of the game. He's just interesting and interested.

He's interested. He's genuinely curious. Yeah, that's the worst.

But he's curious. But he also, like, fucking hits you with shit where you're like, like, no, like, he's just that guy at the party where he's, you know, slowly the crowd gravitates around him, whether he's trying to magnetize him in, whether he's putting on a show or not. Cause he's just interesting.

Got a lot of information. He's like a thoroughfare for information. He's like an airport for information. And he retains information really well, and he's genuinely curious. You'll kind of say something, and then he'll ask you about it, and you're almost like, fuck, now I have to actually say something about this.

He was the first one that did this shit, though, where somebody, you're talking, and then all of a sudden he's like, look that up, and somebody. Somebody listens and helps reference person, like, helping out. We didn't have that in them early days.

Yeah, I. A lot of, like, I feel like there's less comedy movies these days. Would you agree with that?

No, I think there are less movies, period, these days.

Okay. Is it a lot of, like, there's a lot of almost comic book type movies and universes that are the. Those are the movies now, does that feel weird to you because they're not weird to you? Like, what are your thoughts on that? That it's like, I don't know if one, like, like, has eliminated the other, but it's just kind of like, why is that? Why do we see these big, huge things? But it's. It feels tougher to. For somebody to create just like, a good comedy these days.

I think good comedy went tv into streaming because they needed to fill coffers quick. You know, fill programming schedules quick. So.

Or, like, did Marvel universes, all the comic book universes, did they kill off, like, this? The guy?

Hundred percent no. Studios like to make money, right? In the business to make money. I don't think a comic book movie has made them go, like, let's give up on the middle, mid range. They're just like, look, more risk, more reward. And when I first started, you had, there was television, there was movies. Now there are many more options and many more places to go. So instead of doing, you know, and you'll see it like, an eight or six or eight episode show where you're like, could have done in three. It's because, like, a lot of people are like, all right, I'm gonna take my idea that was for a feature and stretch it out into a show. So I think I, you know, never mind comedy. I'd be more curious. Hey, where did the indie film go? Yeah, but I think the indie film was taken over by Netflix. Once Netflix came in, number one, they started buying cheap movies, and number two, they started making programming that was kind of interesting. They went to other countries, and they were like, who are your top filmmakers? Here's money. Go make tv shows and stuff.

And that's where all the interesting ideas are going and finding a home. You're somebody who wants to tell an offbeat story, and you're looking at this sisyphean task of like, I gotta roll this fucking boulder up the hill. Like, every time I make a movie, it's like, fuck, here we go. It's gonna be fucking tough. Or you walk into these cats and they're like, what's it about? How esoteric is it? Interesting. Go ahead. Can you make it six episode? Can you make it eight? That's preferable. And that's where all the interesting programming has slowly gravitated to.

Now you're saying some of the indie movies have actually become television shows?

I think indie filmmakers or people that make things off the beaten path, stories that don't necessarily fall into the big budget equation, have wound up going to streaming like, you know, what was fucking Jason Bateman show Ozarke. Yeah, it's an indie film. This just happens to be a series that went on for a bunch of episodes because they're like, hey, do you. We like it. Do it again. Instead of getting a sequel, you just get another season.

That's a good point. It's like, it was almost like, there's a secret gay guy at the lake. It was like people playing gay clue at the lake. Member. Because, like, that one guy and Ozark.

Yeah, I didn't watch the whole show.

And using an example, it started to get redundant. Like, it started.

For some reason. I really want to play gay clue. Does that exist?

No. They should have that. Right, right. Like, he did it. Yeah, it was. It was like, what do you use the candlestick for?

They'll, like, find out.

Samuel's been in the billiard room for.

A while in the conservatory, not being very conservative.

Wow. I've never used that to cue my pool stick before. What's that thing called to chalk? I've chalked.

I've never even chalked that way.

Yeah. So that's interesting.

I think that's part of it. Believe me. I'm not like. And that's exactly what happened.

No, it's cool.

I think that's part of it. I think Netflix came in, disrupted the business, as we all know, in a way that at first, people were like, yeah. And now people are like, wait a second. In the aftermath, nothing existed the way that existed before television viewership is, like, down to almost nothing. So much so that major studios are writing off entire network divisions and stuff like that, devaluing television in order to get a write off. So once Netflix came in and said, hey, this is how we're doing it. And then every other company was like, well, shit, we got to do what they're doing. And they started doing streaming and whatnot, it just really. It broke the model. It's kind of nuts. So right now, I think if you're a person that likes to tell off the beaten path stories, or what we used to call back in the day, an indie filmmaker, now's the time to shine. I think there's a moment that's going on right now where entertainment, like, the way people are getting their entertainment, of course, is completely changed over the last ten years. But theatrical consumption has been way off since COVID And some people wonder if, like, will people ever go back to movies the way they used to, and blah, blah, blah.

They're not going to go unless you give them something they can't get anyplace else. So they'll go to the theaters to see Deadpool, Wolverine, because, like, I'm going to be able to watch this at home for, like, six months, so fuck it. But what if you tell them a story going back to your voice as your currency they've never heard before, and the only place they could see it was in theater. And right now, theaters are hurting, so they'll fucking take anybody. It doesn't matter. It used to be tough to get screens now. Are you fucking kidding me? You can make a deal with AMC, private deal with your own independent movie where you're like, I can I get 100 screens and we'll do a door split or whatever the fuck it's possible, because movie theaters, as a movie theater exhibitor, I know this for a fact. We would kill or die to have people come in. You know, back in the day, I made this movie, the 430 movie. And it's about how in this, your new film. This is the new film that's coming out September 13. In the eighties, we used to pay for one movie and then jump from theater to theater to theaters for free.

I own that movie theater that I used to do that. And we get caught, you might get the risk of being banned from that theater for fucking life. If I caught you walking into another movie theater after you paid for only one movie theater in my movie theater, I'd be like, that's great. Just buy some popcorn, would you? You could stay as long as you fucking want. Call your friends, have them come just to get fucking bodies through the goddamn door. So it's, it's, yeah, this is a bit of a different world at this point. But imagine you're an indie filmmaker who wants to say the thing nobody has ever fucking said before in a film per se. We're just using film as an example. Fuck, now is your time. Like, you could actually make a thing and have it be in a goddamn movie theater. And then if you do even the tiniest bit of business with your movie in a movie theater these days, that's a fucking story.

Yeah.

And that also has, it's been proven, like, through the algorithm. When Amazon did Air Ben Affleck's movie air, they put it in theaters and they spir a I are about Air Jordan, the history of the air sneaker. They put it in theaters traditionally and spent money on advertising, even though Amazon has prime. And really they probably thought it would go right there. But they were like, you know what? Let's see what it would be like to release a movie. Like, you know, Amazon and other streamers broke the theatrical model. And here they're going like, wouldn't it be novel like us with smodcast going like, wouldn't it be weird if somebody paid for an ad on our show? So these cats are like, wouldn't it be novel if we put the movie out and paid for ads and people saw a trailer and then went to the movies theater to see it. Would it make it more valuable when we then put it on prime? And it did, naturally, they found the same thing out on Netflix. Movies that go the traditional route, the way that everybody expects. I've seen a commercial for that on tv that will be a primary choice on Netflix rather than a Netflix made for Netflix movie.

May have the biggest fucking stars on the planet on it, in it, but you will pass it by.

Yeah, it feels crazy. So there's something about just watching a movie that's just on Netflix or on a street.

Isn't that crazy? Yeah, there is a value to putting something in a theater. Still, it gives it this kind of panache. Now, if you're an indie filmmaker and you're out there going like, nobody's ever fucking heard my story. They've never heard my voice. They've never fucking seen what I can do. And if you're sitting there right now going, I fucking hate Kevin Smith. He makes the same fucking movie every time. 30 years in the business, all he's done is make clerks of Jay and son Bob, great, now's your fucking time. Now's your time to shine. Don't sit there, waste your time at home looking at me, hating on me. Use me as your fucking example and stepping stone. Like, if that fucking talentless idiot could do it, then I could fucking do it too. And now is the time for another indie filmmaker indie filmmaking movement. Now it feels like with the frustration of real fucking filmmakers who I know people that make millions to fucking make movies sitting on their asses, because ain't nobody fucking making movies. Could you imagine if some. If the only way you got to do your show is if somebody told you, okay, now you could go, no, you enjoy the independence of, like, fucking this past weekend is going to happen when I want it to fucking happen.

You're your own fucking boss. There are a lot of people that never figured out how to do that. They never came from indie films. They couldn't pivot back to indie film. They've just been spoiled by working for a studio. So now with the studios not making anything, they're like, what do I fucking do? I've always been able to pivot back to indie film, and I feel like even though I've been able to do that, I've been in indie film for a while, everyone knows every variation of story I could possibly tell. Every once in a while, you'll whip a tusk on and, like, that's fucking weird. But generally speaking, like, he does those Jay and Salama movies and shit. Now is the time for an indie filmmaker to come out and be like, here's a fucking story nobody's ever heard. Fuck a tic tac. I mean, I love TikTok, don't get me wrong. But, like, people that spend their time, like, doing little videos and shit, if you're a filmmaker, make your fucking film, and now is the time to take your fucking shot. Because there is an empty guff in the marketplace for that type of storytelling.

All of it has gone mainstream. Streaming is now mainstream. So people who are telling these offbeat stories on streamers, they are essentially studios at this point. When I started an indie film, it was like, us outside of Warner Brothers and fucking 20th Century Fox and Paramount going like, well, they'll never let us play. So just because they won't let us in don't mean I can't do it on my own. The streamers of that now. So if you're out there going like, well, Netflix will never give me a fucking thing. Great, go do your fucking thing without them. Hang your own fucking shingle. It's time. People are hungry for that.

Do you think it's a good idea to sell direct to consumer? Right?

Yes.

David Spade and I wrote a movie, and so we're going to try to get it made, and it feels like it's kind of getting close, right? And we're like, could we just put it on a website and sell it right there to people?

100%? But also, you travel out in the world, man, and so imagine you do a comedy tour, but instead, your comedy tour is. Amen. Welcome. Tonight we're going to watch the movie, and afterwards we're going to talk about it. All right? So enjoy the show. And then you get to fuck off for 90 minutes. Then you come out, and it's all crowd work because you're just answering fucking questions. That's it. You have the ability to do that. Why do you fucking need anybody else? Or you've got such an audience and such a long tail that you can go into an AMC, like a fucking Taylor swift and be like, I guarantee you that on my podcast that has 200 fucking million downloads per hour, whatever the fuck that I can make people come to a theater and show a thing. And even if AMC is like, no, we're interested, then you go to fathom events and be like, hey, man, I got a movie. I want to put it in screens for, like, two fucking days, and you'll make, like, $10 million, and they'll write stories about fucking smart you are. So you don't need anybody, Theo.

You have the distribution fucking mechanism already in place. You're a loaded gun at all times. You just have to point your audience in the right direction. And what you do is point them to the next show. The next show or a live gig. But if you make a movie with Spade or whoever to fuckin don't fucking sell it until you have milked it and juiced it for everything you personally can. The way you juice your own shit. Then fucking give it up to a streamer, then give it up to somebody like a home video company that's going to put it out and shit like that. Because you have the mechanism in place. You already know how to put asses in seats. The big mystery of this business that everyone's always trying to figure out is how do I get fucking people to show up? You know how to get people to show up. Now this would just be you going, okay, when you show up this time we're gonna do things a little differently. I'm just gonna show you a movie and then we're gonna fucking do a comedy show afterwards and stuff. Do you get charged the same thing?

And all that money goes right to the fucking flick.

And then you would have us did then you'd have money now. Then you could start making other cool movies and have your friends be like. You could just write it. And then it's like, you'd have movies would be like, free again. Cuz there wouldn't be. Yeah, you don't have to go and ask some smarmy fucking dude. Some who mean free again.

Because I'm like, I like this world. Just free. Meaning you could do whatever you want.

You can do what you want.

But you could always do whatever you want. You have the ability to do that. You just have to, right? You always could together. But you already show it on a regular basis. You gotta. You are again. I cannot fucking stress this enough. That Celsius fucking container is huge. They don't give that to just anybody. Is massive. He's out of his fucking. It's like I walked into a 711. Or at least a fucking.

I'm gonna pee really fast.

Actually.

I hated it when. Hold on a second.

No way, man. No, I'm going. You coming with me? We're doing it. Take my hand. We're going. Fellman Louise in the shit.

They died, didn't they?

Yeah, but they live forever.

That's true.

You know what I'm saying?

Because they're in a movie.

Look, theo, everybody dies. Not everybody truly lives.

Facts.

I took that from Braveheart.

You did?

I mean, that's where it came from.

There's a new asian kind of Braveheart movie coming out. I saw a preview for. How do you. How do you know when keeping on movies. How do you know, when have you ever.

Shouldn't movies be like, like national cuisine? Like, you were gone. There's an asian Braveheart. Braveheart coming out. Shouldn't there be one for every country? Like, recently we were talking about, I saw on Netflix, they had this movie called Beneath Paris, which is Jaws in France.

Ooh.

Shouldn't every country have its own fucking jaws? We were talking about this on holiday podcasts I do with Ralph Gorman at flappers and stuff. And I was like, every country should have its own fucking jaws. Like, listen, it don't have to be the same story, but just give me every country. It should be like the Olympics. Every country is like, you're our best athletes. It should be like, here is our best shark movie. Killer shark movie. Because everybody can get away with that. And the fucking, you know, there aren't a lot of killer shark movies now. Seems cheap now, like, cheap to do. Like a guess. Like, doing shark is cg. Shark is not as expensive as building the big rubber one that they did for jaws and shit like that. But, you know, having one. Having each country, each nation represented by what they feel is their best possible.

Like, saving private Reginald or something. Like an or something. Or if they had, like, world War two. Like, no, I was just thinking of, like, a different, like, if you had, say, like, we have saving Private Ryan. Yeah, if they had.

Let's just keep it to sharks.

The saving private.

Don't jump in a fucking war film.

I'm saying, like, saving private.

We can do. You know, every nation gets to make every movie for themselves. We start basic. You start with the shark thing.

Okay.

We'll get to, like, saving Private Richard and shit like that. We're saving. Saving Heinrich, right? Because that would be the other side.

Of the war or something like that.

But just a shark fucking picture. Every nation going like this is it. Fucking arms race. Just like.

Like, oh, it's a dangerous koi and it's like a japanese one or whatever.

Koi, yeah, it's gotta be shark. We gotta have rules.

I don't know if they have sharks in some places.

That's the thing. It's like. It's a fucking movie. What do you. What do you eliminate it for?

Yeah, you're right.

Hey, man, in real life, fuck real life. This is movie time. Say the podcast Michigan Shark.

Jaws of Michigan.

Yes.

It's just a guy in a fucking hot dog eating contest.

Here's how it happened, right? So fucking every. Every night when the Coney dog place closes, they got leftover Coney dogs that go bad. Dude don't like to throw it out. So he takes it to one of the Great Lakes, pitches it like somebody had disposed of a fucking baby. Great white shark. He's been eating. Eating these fucking hot dogs. So he's fucking massive and shit.

Wow, dude, I'm already in. Fucking awesome, dude, I'm already in.

Dude called David Spade. Let's write that. Finance. Self finance that fucking movie. I honestly had a conversation with my friend logic. There's. There's me going, fucking. There's also that big name for you. Logic was like, he's amazing, dude. Logic is in the 430 movie. And when he shot, he is. When he shot his scene, we'd already finished the movie and stuff so he could watch it. So I was like, come to my place. I'll show you the flick. So he watched the flick, and then after the flick, he was like, oh, I fucking love movies. He's like, before even hip hop. I love movies and stuff. He's go, I found hip hop through movies. I found Wu Tang through Quentin and stuff like that. He's always wanted to make a movie. I almost made a movie with JJ. And I was like, JJ? And he's like, yeah. He's like, but it didn't happen.

I was like, JJ from good times? No.

Yeah, fucking JJ. Like JJ Dyn. Kid dynamite.

Hey, what was his name? JJ.

JJ Abrams is the director I was talking about. But I love that you went with JJ.

I'm thinking of JJ Evans.

JJ Evans. James Evans senior.

I saw him at the airport once.

What? Jimmy Walker.

Jimmy Walker. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah.

There he is. Legend.

Oh, yeah.

Kid Dino might.

Dino mi.

All right, so wait, so JJ. So JJ, I was like, I surprised that he. That he hadn't made, you know, fucking JJ Abrams. Yeah, fucking one of the Star wars. Two of them. You'd imagine it could happen, but he's like, just didn't happen. I said, why is it difficult? Is expensive? Because. No, it's kind of like, like clerks. It's set in one location. And I was like, what could. What low is it on the moon? He goes, no, it's just in a record store. I said, bro, you can make that movie yourself. You don't need any help. You got fucking. I'm sure you got money from hip hop. Like, you can finance your own movie. And for all the years I've ever said to people, like, you can make a movie. Anybody can make a movie. You should make your own movie. Motherfucker was like, you're right. And he financed his own fucking movie. We went and shot it back in May up in Oregon, in St. Helens, and it's called Paradise Records. And so I was a producer on it, and I was his editor, and my God, it's so fucking wonderful. Like, it is legit.

He is born to be a filmmaker, and it's kind of a little irritating when a dude who is exceptionally good at one thing and made fucking billions doing it is now like, oh, I'm also good at. I mean, this fucking dude's good at anything.

JJ Abrams.

No fucking logic. Oh, logic, logic. Fucking, like, he could do a Rubik's cube in front of you in like 12 seconds.

Yeah.

Like, he just. He's so crazy fucking talented. Shit. But him as a filmmaker, this movie, paradise records, it's gonna be fucking gonna hit huge. It is fucking awesome. He's the star, and his friend Tremaine is the second lead. And his friend t man is absolutely wonderful in the movie. But this dude wrote, directed, and fucking starred in it. And I was, like, so incredibly impressed. Cause he's a legit, great actor. Like, as you know. Cause I cut every frame. I saw every frame of the fucking footage. I was there on set when I shot it, but most of the time, I was cutting the movie and shit, and every frame of film, I was like, this guy's fucking unnatural. So that movie is fucking wonderful, man.

Paradise records.

Paradise records next year.

How do you know? I want to ask a little bit more about. About the 430 movie, but comes out September 13. September 13.

It's. It's. Ken Jeong is in it. He's amazing. This is kind of the story of my young life, the story of the first date that I had in high school and stuff, of my girlfriend, like.

One of the movie. Right?

We. I took her to the flicks, and. Yeah, but in this flick, him and his friends, they're going to the movie theater to hang out for the day and skip from theater to theater to theater. If you've ever listened to Smodcast, back. Back in the day when me and Scott Moshe used to do it, there was this episode we did about Emo Kev, where I had these old recordings of me where I used to ride around on a bike in my hometown and fucking like, what am I doing? Like, real existential crisis shit. Before I ever made clerks wondering what my future would be and stuff. So we played him on smart guests and, like, Scott, like, mercilessly fucking died laughing. He just would attack a guys like, oh, my God. You sound so fucking dumb. But they were. It was kind of wonderful to listen to it. Shit. Anyway, the movie is kind of based on that. So, like, it's based on that version of Emo Kev, as we call them in the podcast.

Okay.

Ride around on his bike and be like, when is my life gonna begin? So it's that kind of thing.

It's kind of cool.

There's a story. There's bear McCreary did our score, and he's absolutely wonderful composer, but him and his brother did a song that ends the movie, and it's a fucking jam. It's totally earworm. And you're like, oh, my God. Went like, my friend put it on Shazam or whatever. Because he's like, where have I heard that before? I was like, you never heard it? He just fucking created and shit. But it's called 24 karat case of Love. Because in the movie, as in real life, on the episode of Smodcast that we did years ago, you hear me talking about my ex girlfriend, and I was like, I got a 24 karat case of love. And that's what broke Moser up the most. He was like, you fucking unbelievable. Fucking, you know, he just attacked me and shit. So I put that in the flick. So Baron McCreary and his brother write this closing song for the movie, and he goes, you gotta listen to it, man. I think you'll like it. And the hook of the song is, I got a 24 karat kisseuv love. And I was like, oh, my God. So I wrote to Baron.

I was like, bro, you took the dumbest fucking shit I ever said on the earth and made it a pretty fucking wicked earworm hook for the song. And he goes, don't shit on that. He's going, you saying I got a 24 karat case of love is the kind of thing that a 16 year.

Old boy says, yeah, because it's 24 karat real strong, or it's kind of mid strong.

That was for me. Nothing gets stronger than a fucking 24k. Because we didn't have diamonds in our world. I was lower, lower, lower, lower, low. We were poor.

Yeah.

So, like, 24 karat gold is that. My mom had a 24 karat gold wedding band.

Oh, yeah.

So 24 karat K's love.

That's my sister's divorce, too.

Is that right?

Yeah, but he was 24 karat, so he took things from those moments we ride around.

Well, he took that exact fucking line and made it the hook for the song. And he's like, never fucking regret saying that. He's. That's what you say when you're 16. I didn't have the heart to tell him. I was like, really? I said that when I was 22, but whatever, dude.

There's something so magical.

So, wait, were you raised in Tennessee?

I was raised in Louisiana.

What part?

Yeah, in a place called Covington, Louisiana.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

So how far is that from?

Like, from 1 hour from New Orleans north for about.

We shot Jane, saw Bob reboot there as a fucking fantastic place.

No way.

Oh, my God. Louisiana. So fucking good to us. Yeah, like, I'll always. That was the movie. I made a movie there, too.

Didn't you?

Well, we went to the joy theater and showed Jay and Sal and Bob reboot when we were on tour. But we shot there. And that was the post heart attack movie. So that was a movie where I was like, holy shit. I was supposed to be fucking dead. Like, so I'm just gonna make the movie I want to make. Fuck everything else. And that was Jane Saul and Bob reboot. And so we had to go to Louisiana. We couldn't do it in Jersey because it's a road movie and stuff like that. Louisiana had a fantastic fucking rebate, that great fucking crew, man. And the people were so fucking wonderful and shit. And we shot during Mardi Gras, so we took two days down. We actually shot on Mardi Gras at the courthouse because they were like, that's the only day we're closed. We're like, great. We'll use the courthouse day. But everyone was so fucking cool, man. And I didn't even fuck with the party. Half of the city. Like, the cast and people who flew in to be in the movie and shit, they would go to, like, I went to Bourbon street, right?

I didn't even get that fucking far, man. It was just like work probably, too.

When you're putting a movie together, it's a lot. How do you know when, like. Like when you're ramping up to do a movie, things get pretty intense pretty quick. Right? And then there's just that day where you have to start. How crazy is that first day? Because that's such a. I mean, it's rare that there's such a huge leap that's going to be so you can't go back. Like, you are moving forward.

It's begun. You spend so much time trying to get to that moment that when the moment happens, you're already prepared. You better be fucking prepared if you're not. It's like, what the fuck are you crying about all this time, like, you knew this was coming. You pushed for, you wanted this. That's why, like, after everything I do, no matter what, whether it works or doesn't work, there's two things I always say to myself in general, this is more helpful if it doesn't, if it didn't work. One is like, you wanted this. Like, oh, my God, you changed the course of human events to make this fucking movie happen and shit. Like, you dreamed about this. You somehow found millions of dollars and convinced people to give up their time. Do this. Fucking make pretend with you so it don't matter if it didn't do what you want. You wanted this. You better fucking enjoy it because it's gonna pass quick. And then the second thing I always tell myself is like, what was the alternative? Did you even have an alternative? Was the alternative to not do the thing? Then that's not the alternative. Because knowing that I could do the thing and knowing that I could accomplish it and then not doing the thing would eat at me like a fucking cancer.

That's sad when you know you can accomplish things, but you don't do it because you're like, no, well fucked. And what if somebody don't like it? Like I mentioned before, like, we dropped.

So scary, though, is all crazy.

But that's why this is a safe environment. You create a thing where you're like, these are my rules, my house, and I don't have you. Don't worry. When a new episode goes up, you don't even think about it. You feel like, oh, I recorded that a couple days ago or last week or something like that. But you're so. You've built the thing for yourself that is so fucking foolproof and you can avoid, sidestep the world of rejection and the world of no, you went to here and you created a world of yes for yourself. So you don't have that weird trepidation at the beginning of every show because you're like this. I engineered this to be as easy for me as fucking breathing and shit. When you're making a flick or something like that, there are way more people involved and shit. And you've also been dying to do this. Sometimes it's taken ten years to get to that amazing moment.

We've been working on it, on this. From trying to get this movie together. All the agents haven't done anything. So finally we got some of our own friends and stuff, and we're going to put in some of our own money.

That's what I was going to say. Like, dude, based on that Celsius case, there's no fucking way that you don't have enough of your own fucking. You probably got in your pocket.

Just be like, I wish, dude, you can have that thing, brother. I'm sitting in that tv.

It is so possible to do. I tell my kid all the time, my kid, who again, I fucking.

Your daughter.

My daughter.

She's in a movie.

She's in one of the movies, in Quentin's movie. I always lead with that. She's been a bunch of my movies, but nobody gives a fuck about Kevin Smith. She was in once upon a time in Hollywood, so I always leave without interview me. She leads with that, too. She never leads with, like, as in Jay and son Bob reboot. But she played Jay's daughter in Jay and son Bob.

John Deafstone. What was the one was she was that. Who was.

Yoga hosers.

Yoga hoses.

Fuck out of. I mean, you think I got beat up from putting a picture of myself crying on the Internet? Yoga hoses. I got fucking. Ooh. They were, like, bent over, and it went in dry. So I'm dry. I got. I remember Av club was like, ew. Kevin Smith and Johnny Depp are going to force us to watch a playdate with their children. And it's like, bro, you don't have to watch it. But I've, you know, that was. I've been around the Internet for a while, so I've watched the culture get, like, way more toxic. And here's the thing. For as long as I've been online, I've been online since 1996, right? So I remember the first trolley where it's like, what? Yeah, why would you spend time here? And you probably got one of the.

First trolls ever legit.

100%. I remember there was a dude. I reached out to a troll, like, to try to understand, and this was a dude who was on ain't a cool news, and he had written some shit about me, but it was incorrect. That was the thing. Like, somebody wrote something about me as their opinion, what the fuck hurts? But it's like, you can't do anything. But this dude had said something completely incorrect. So I wrote to him, because you click on their name and hit their email. So I wrote to the dude, I was like, hey, I'm Kevin Smith. And you said this shit about me. I was like, I can't do anything about your opinion, but the one thing you said is factually untrue. So I just wanted to correct that if you're going to go out and say things and stuff.

Yeah.

And the dude wrote back, I don't know who you are, but I know you're one of the names that if some. If I throw out on any cool news, a bunch of people will jump to your defense. And that's how I like to hang out at night. And that blew my fucking mind. This was in the year 2000. I want to say maybe. Yeah, because it was before I did Jay and Salmon Bob strike back, which has the whole ending of. Of them going around beating up people on the fucking Internet from a message chat booth. So I was there for. I'm not saying that was the first troll, but that was one of my first trolls.

And he said he liked doing it because he liked the.

That's how he spent his night like that. And that's a legit fucking response that a human being sent me. That's not a made up story. That's not like, I met a guy who said that happened, and I was so fucking flabbergasted by that, I'm not anymore. Because I understand that's cheap entertainment for somebody like, fuck going to the movies, they're fuck going, like, going out to dinner. It's like, fucking order some fucking pizza and let's mate. I'm just gonna jump online and be.

Like, this guy or whatever, and then.

Watch people react and hit on that and shit. So I've watched the Internet get way more toxic and shit like that. But at the same time, as much as the Internet gives everybody access to you who can, like, fucking shit on your day or try to shit in your mouth, it also gives you access to the most wonderful people in the world who say these amazing things about you that keep you going. And as previously spoken about, I never know how to feel about myself because I'm broken. So it helps. I'm obviously part of the reason I do the job is because I like when people are like, good job. Like, my whole career has been about trying to produce work that's good enough for mom to put up on the fridge. Like, when you get an a or a b on the paper and she put that shit up on the fridge. The fridge is just the world at this point. And you hope that it's good enough that the paper goes up and gets noticed and shit and you take a lot of slings and arrows, even if you like to do a thing, you know?

So, like, there are the trolls who just go after you because, like, it's entertaining to watch other people blood in the water and shit like that. But then there are people who legitimately fucking hate you and what you do like and hate watch you just the way, like, Howard Stern used to have people who like, if you like Howard Stern, you listen for ten minutes. If you hate Howard Stern, you listen for fucking 20. So I get it. And I. And I've been around on the Internet long enough where I know, like, I am one of those figures and shit, but it always baffles me. Like, I. You know, I put up a fucking post on my instagram today about, hey, I'm doing this podcast with my kid, beardless, dickless me. And naturally. Yeah, naturally.

That's your daughter?

That's my kids, Harley. She's a good kid, man. She's got a good head on her shoulders and shit. She was the one that asked me to go vegan because she was vegan, and after the heart attack, she was like, dad, like, please, like, just try it. It could help because the nutritionist in the hospital was like, you might want to consider going plant based, because 100% blockage in your lad. That's really bad. So my kid was like, can you please try? And I was like, you know what? I'll do it for you. I'll try for a few months. And, you know, she saved my life, to be honest with you. But I also know my kid is part me, so she's very strategic as a vegan. She was like, if I could flip this motherfucker, he'll be a big voice for the movement and shit like that. So she.

Did you still get erection if you're vegan or nothing?

Like an erection?

Can you still.

Do you still have, like, a. I'm hard now, son. Yeah, yeah. I mean, fuck yeah. You get. You get very hard even. What would be the idea in not getting hard as a vehicle? I just didn't have enough red meat.

Yeah, something like that. If you don't have enough iron or whatever.

I'm on blood thinners because of the heart attack.

Does that help your wiener get harder?

No. In fact, it's a little more challenging. Not challenging. It's just the hard on you get, ain't. It's workable. It's fuckable dick. Yeah, but it's not like, oh, my God, this can fucking crack steel. Oh, yeah, you're Jackie Chan. With like eight fucking.

Never had that one.

Oh, I do. In the morning. That's the morning would, oh, fuck, dude. I wake up with a hard on that could. That's impressive. If I was a dick pic guy, that's what I'd be like and put it online and shit like that. But it always goes to waste cuz my wife, like, she's like, I don't fuck before noon. So we've been together like 25 fucking years old almost and or over. And you know, at this point I understand that I'm gonna wait until like one or two. She's so I'm all, I'm a little sad because I'm not saying she's missing out. She ain't missing shit. She's fuck me. But so she knows. She mod, you know?

Yeah.

Saying before I tell people all the time, like, you can achieve your goals. You just have to modify your expectations. I was like, you know, my wife, I always use my wife as example. I was like, jennifer didn't want to marry a guy that fucking looked like me. Like, I saw the dude she dated in high school. She was a cheerleader. She dated fucking football players.

Your wife did. Oh, wow.

But when we met, she was like, all right, he ain't my ideal, but like, I can work with this. So she modified her expectations. And we've been together for quarters centuries, so if you modify some people, like, that's lowering. I'm like, no, no, no modifying your expectations. You can be happy if you just modify what you expect and shit.

Do you have sex under the covers when you're married or on top of the covers?

Under. And I'm also a shirt on guy. I never took my shirt off during sex. You take your shirt off during sex. You look like, here.

I don't that much.

You're one of those dudes who probably you're making out and it's like in the movies and shit. You make out and then you push back. You take your shirt off. Like that's a part of the seduction.

I walk out of the.

I could never do that. If I did that and stepped back, took my shirt off, my tits came.

Out, they'd be like, let me slurp on those little fucking hammocks.

You take them. You take your shirt off.

Don't you know, sometimes I will, sometimes I won't. I walk out of the room backwards. Oh. Cuz I don't like, I don't like people seeing my butt. I guess he serious. So I'll kind of work, huh? Not that I think it is? I don't know.

It's your least attractive feature.

I think it's fine.

But it's like after everyone's already. The situation's gotten all Comey and shit, and everybody's on a different plane altogether and their senses are coming back. You're like, they see my ass, I'm fucked. Well, I just thought you were just fucked. You at that point. They could see your ass. Jobs done, son.

Yeah, but you can. Nobody can see your butt while you're making love to him. It's just the way. It's all. How God did it.

If that is not the title of your biography, I object. Nobody can see your butt if you're making love to it. Theo Vaughn story and other whimsical notions by Theo Vaughn.

Yeah, but it's like you're only. If you think.

You think your ass is your feature. No, I walk out of the room, dick first, where you're like, we're dick backwards. So you're like, look, keep looking there. Don't look at.

Yeah, just like, okay, never mind the man.

Pay attention to the man. No attention to the man behind the curtain. Your ass is the wizard of Oz.

Yeah.

Your dick is what they all see. Your ass is the actual wizard.

Oh, yeah.

Pulling levers.

And my wiener's the cowardly lion. If I only had blood thinners.

Yeah, but to go back to the original question, you can be vegan and get the job, okay. Very easily.

I don't come across. I mean, I guess I know vegans, but I don't know, they don't tell you when you meet them.

What I love about you, Theo, is your act is like, I don't know a lot of things, but you're one of the smartest people I've seen doing.

You think so?

You're smart, but more importantly, you're clever. Clever goes a lot further than smart in this world. I am not smart. I've been clever. I don't even think I'm 100% clever all the time, but I think I'm very clever about what to do, about being Kevin Smith for a living. Myopically clever on one very small plane, which has kind of worked.

Managing yourself well.

Yes, but I think you're smart. I think you're way smarter than you like to let on and shit. You're like, Jay. Like, Jay is also like, oh, no, nothing. But. I'm like, motherfucker. Like, I'm. Don't play me like I write your character. I know what your intelligence level really is and stuff. And while the Jay character is based on who Jay was when he was 16 years old, he's far smarter than that. And also, also, to be fair, far more responsible, hands down, the best father I've ever met in my entire life. He's a wonderful fucking dad to, like, two children. Shocking, because he was, like, terrible to himself for most of his life.

Yeah, I met him at some meetings and stuff. Yeah, he's not talking about that, so it's not.

We did a whole podcast for years, and we still kind of quasi dude. Jay and Silent Bob get old, which is fucking. He's coming up, I think, on his 14th anniversary of being sober. And the podcast was predicated on, like, we go to bars and do this live show where he's the only, everyone else is drunk. He's the only sober person there. And it was all about keeping him sober. So we would sit there and tell his story. About one time I did this. So it was kind of like going to the very fun a meeting where everyone else was drinking except the guy who was witnessing and shit like that. And we got over 100, 200 episodes out of that. It was crazy. And we toured off of that. Like, Jason from the movies, he didn't really make a lot of money being in Kevin Smith films. You don't make money being in Kevin Smith films. You don't make money making them either. But he made enough money to buy a house because of Jane Salombob.

Awesome.

So he was, we were clever with the podcast. But you're smart. This is fucking smart. So I know you're smart.

Yeah. I think I. Sometimes I think I'm afraid to try and, like, I feel like sometimes it's just hard for me to get, like, my information and how I. It's hard to get it, like, clear from my brain to my mouth sometimes. And I think I get afraid to speak up on certain things. Like, um.

I don't know, man. I say I don't know because some people, Sanders and you seem very well fucking.

I had.

I literally watched that for a few minutes and was.

That was fun, dude.

I was like this. Like, I could not have done that. I could talk to people, but I'd be like, I was Bernie. Did you ever see clerks? Like, that's where my life begins and ends at shit. But you could literally sit there and have a political conversation. I'm politically not astute. Yeah, I don't think I could hold that conversation. But you did, and you sounded intelligent.

Thanks, man.

And I don't mean, like, he sounds smart. But you represent them. Like, that's why when you're like, I don't know nothing I like, I couldn't have done. And this ain't me kissing ass or licking knob. I didn't watch the whole interview, but for the few minutes I watched, I was like, this guy's fucking smart. Well, there's somebody happy to come because Jordan, Jason Muse's wife, she runs our business. She was like, oh, I fucked. She's. I was like, I gotta go. I'm going. She's a. Where you go? I wasn't going to Theo Vaughn's pocket. She go fucking. She goes, that's right. I love him. Oh, fuck with him. And she goes, oh, you think he's so funny and shit like that.

What's her name?

Jordan Monsanto.

That's sweet of her, man. Um, yeah, I think. Well, he cares about some of the.

Same stuff as our business manager. I'm gonna go with her. I was like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna take a picture of this. Like, we're doing shit wrong. I know people in the audience, like, stop talking about. But you don't know. You don't know kids. I know what that means. I'm like, this guy's figured the fuck out, man. I don't want to. Do you have a network or is it just your show?

No, just us.

Really?

Yeah. It's just if you ever start a.

Network, I'll be on it.

You will?

Fucking heartbeat. Are you kidding me? Fucking get. I'll get.

We'll plug you in in the other room. Dude.

Dude, I'll never leave that much free celsius and shit. I mean, he's got his own place. Like, I came into an office.

Like, never sleep.

I do my shit at home in a spare room.

Like, I started in my kitchen, man. And when now we just have to have a place for people to be at to work. And.

What is that? What do you mean? Like, so while the show is not going on, you need people in an office?

Yeah, just the producers. Just so they can be around.

Crazy. Like, the infrastructure, that we don't have much.

We have three.

Three huge operation.

Yeah. But, yeah, it's a place like this.

Unless they're giving you this place free. You got paid.

No, they're not. Did you, um. If you're.

I never want to hear this I'm not a smart person person shit ever again.

What was that, Jay?

You and muse in a movie, bro. Never mind David Spade. I ain't trying to throw him under the bus, but fucking you and Jay in a movie. You could be his brother. Oh, fuck. Shit. Hold on. This is happening in real time.

What would we do, I wonder?

Want it? Do you want to come? We're doing a movie next year, early next year, Jay and silent bob stores, which is about. They have a dispensary, and then somebody opens a dispensary across the street, and they're like their opposites in every way, and it's. They battle for the whole movie. You legit. I'm not just saying this because I'm on the podcast, but, like, your vibe is very Jay like, number one. I know. This would make my boss happy. Like, Jordan, be like, yes, bitch. You come in and play fucking Jay's brother, who's never been in a movie before.

Jordan Monsanto, the person.

That's. That's Jordan J's wife, Jordan, who runs our company and shit. She produces the movies.

She does, yeah.

She's been our producer for years. She's been producing since, like, Tusk.

Wow. She's really smart.

Fuck Spartan. Smarter than both you and I, and I know how smart you are. As previously said, you ain't got one of those.

You wrote this character. I'm not even. I'm fictional.

I'm telling you, bro. You playing Jay's brother.

Wow. Really, dude?

100%. I mean, look, I offer you no great shakes. Being in a Kevin Smith movie helps.

No, I just heard it doesn't make any money. Oh, wow.

Yeah. That's true. And that's their daughter Logan. And then they have a little boy now named Lucien. He wasn't alive when we did this picture. He came afterwards. I was clerks three. Yes.

Yes. So it's dope beef. They got two dispensaries that, having dope beef, basically. That's cool.

It's a war.

Yeah. We need that kind of fucking shit, people.

Comedy. But it ain't no studio comedy. Like, no studio.

How much does it cost to make a movie like that? What's kind of, like, your highest budget?

That'll be ten if I can get, I could. I could get between eight to ten for a Jane Solomon Bob type thing. Clerks three, the 430 movie, which is coming out September 13. Presumably that's what we're here to talk about. But I'm just, I just came, yeah, I just came for the cells.

No, I want to talk a little.

Bit more about, we don't have to, but the 430 movie cost $3 million.

Wow.

Saban financed that.

And was it Savon?

Saban?

Saban. Have they finite some of your other.

Films to the Jane, Sal and Bob Reboot.

Okay.

Years and years ago they also did the mighty Morphin power Rangers.

Did they? Um, and how much can we, can you make a real return on a movie like that?

You can make a return. You can make your money back and make a little scratch. Yeah, I think that's, I think I can stay in the business for as long as I have for three decades when I'm well past my fucking past due date. Because I could always pivot to inexpensive. So a lot of people are like, well, it's got to be fucking 20 million or I can't do it. I'm the other guy where I'm like, oh, I'll, I could do it for three.

Yeah.

Whether we could do it for three or not, it's like, we'll get there. We'll cram it into that fucking number.

I would be fancy.

Yeah. And the privilege of like, making a movie might like, everyone don't get to do that.

It's a weird, that's what I think.

About where you say to somebody like, can you give me a lot of money to make pretend? Most people are like, just make pretend by themselves for free and shit. And you're like, I can't quite do it. And I realized, like, my job is such, it's full of shit, man. It's a pack of lies. Basically what I try to do in life is capture artificially capture a moment that happened to me that made my head or heart feel something so overwhelmingly wonderful that I was like, if I could fucking capture that and put it in a movie and show people how it felt, I bet you other people would identify with that. So it was like Allison County. I mean, I guess absolutely to some degree, right? If that was your speed or whatever the fuck. But like, the idea of like, I was on set and I guess it was because the 430 movies, the first.

Movie 430 is cool. Cause it's like in the eighties it eighties or nineties.

Eighties it takes eighties, 1980.

Yeah, dude, it just had this, like this free when you couldn't, when your imagination where if you wondered if a girl cared about you, all you could do is lay on your back in your fucking room floor listening to like Nirvana or something, wondering and I praying and pining and just dry humping the carpet that this woman cared about you.

Shy of dry humping the carpet, which I against, but that was never a part of my repertoire. You've nailed the feeling of me trying to capture that fucking feeling. You know, in movies we weren't that rich? Oh, my God. Were you rich?

No, we weren't, but where'd you get. I heard about shag carpet, and I thought that's. You're supposed to do.

You heard about it? Did you have carpet, period?

Oh, yeah, we have wall to wall.

Like the cheap shit. Yeah, not, not. You know what? Yeah, rugs are expensive. Carpeting is less expensive.

You could pee on our carpet.

Yeah. When others did on our protest. And sometimes capturing the moment, though, being. Being a liar for a living and shit like that. That is what making movies is, is all about. That's why I like podcasting, because any lie, basically, everything's true. Like, you just sit down, start talking, having conversation. Yeah, you try movies is like, one day I. Someone will try, maybe not this particular moment, but. And I've done it. In movies, you try to capture a podcast in a movie. Like in Tusk, we have them podcasting and stuff. And once again, that's an artificial snapshot of a moment that made me feel fucking absolute joy. And then you give that moment to the movie, and then the movie goes out to the audience and the moment stops being just yours. And then for the rest of your life, you interact with that movie. Periodically, it comes up and you're watching it, and you see this, like, wonderful. This approximation, this half ass approximation of some amazing thing that had happened to. And you go, oh, shit, that's right. Like, that was mine. But then I shared it with the art form and stuff.

When it comes to preparing for a movie, what are some pitfalls that people can avoid? It might be little things. It might just be energy, being focused, having enough time.

Honestly, the biggest pitfall, I mean, you'll never have enough time. You'll never have enough money. I don't give a shit what your budget is like, whether you have 3 million or 300. Every filmmaker, every producer always has the same complaint, which is, like, not enough time, not enough money. And even if you've got more money, you think that'll ameliorate it. It just winds up being the same fucking problem. Economy of scale. So don't worry about that shit. This is what you need to think about. I think primarily be prepared in as much as, like, if you're starting for the first time, you've never done this shit before. Obviously, this isn't advice for people who do it for a living. Let's say you're a first timer. Rehearse the fuck out of that shit. Like a month on clerks, mall rats chasing Amy rehearsed for a month before we went near a set that way, your take ratio is going to be real low. Now. Some people be like, what does that matter? In the age of fucking digital video, back when you were shooting film, yes, it was expensive to process film. Time is money on a movie fucking set.

So if you can accomplish it in one take, fucking move on. Like, the story of my life. And I've told it before publicly. So this might not be news to some, but how I've been able to keep doing what I've been doing for 30 years. If people are like, I hate him. Why does he keep fucking? How come he still works? This is why I don't strive for excellence. I ain't Chris fucking Nolan, believe me. Every critical tell you that and shit. Chris Nolan strives for excellence. I, from the beginning of my career from clerks forward, was never like, let's make it fucking perfect. If I was striving for perfection, I don't think I've ever made my first film yet. I'd still be sitting there frozen. What will it be like? Good enough will take you very far. Good enough has taken me 30 years. So on the set of clerks we'd be shooting, I'd be like, cut. All right, that's good enough. Let's move on. Let's do something else. Good enough has gotten me here, has gotten me all the way to this fucking chair. Good enough will get you as far as you need to go.

Now, that's probably not winner talk, right? Like, fucking, if you want to win an oscar, you got to leave it on the table. You got to fucking, like, make people hurt. Fucking make those movies where, like, Leonardo's fighting a fucking bear and shit and fucking make people sit in the snow to do it because everyone's got to be miserable in order for this to read and shit like that. I ain't that guy and that committed to it. I just like to make pretend, maybe get a little money for it and shit. So I can't go in authentically like that where it's like, oh, fucking everything. It's gonna be perfection at the cost of everybody. And there are directors who do that, and I respect them, I guess, a little bit. I wouldn't do that to my casting crew. But, like, those movies are fucking successful because they've got a vision and a drive and the passion of a filmmaker. If I were ever trying to make one of those things, it wouldn't happen. Number one, I don't have the talent. Number two, I don't have that kind of patience and shit. Number three, I can't do that to other people.

I want people leaving my set gone. I had a good ass fucking time. That's how I keep my budgets low. Crew comes back and they'll work for fucking scale, because, like, look, you don't pay a lot, but fucking, it's good time on a set. You're going to enjoy yourself. You're going to have fucking happy memories and shit like that. Good enough gets me to the set, you know, if I've rehearsed enough before we shoot, and I'm on set, one, two take stops, and I'm like, good enough, moving on. And that time all adds up. That's fucking money. So strive for perfection. I guess at some point in your career. I honestly never have. And I've just been doing it for 30 years. And some people out there, I'm sure the letterbox crowd would be disgusted by that thought. Like, oh, he doesn't even fucking try. Clearly, I try. I've been doing this for 30 fucking years.

Will you show up?

And beyond show up. I deliver. I just don't fucking make everyone's life miserable. To fucking deliver something that's like, I've got a vision, right? I got an idea where we're going and shit. Let's all have a good time doing it. Otherwise, what was the fucking point? If people on a set are miserable when you make pretend for a living, everybody has fucking failed, and you shouldn't be doing this. Like, it should be fun. It's make it pretend for a living. And I understand, you know, there are some people, like, no, man. Art is pain, and it's good. Not really. This is. This isn't an art form, don't get me wrong, but, like, doesn't have to be fucking painful. It's very cathartic, and a lot of folks can't do that fucking pivot. Like, it's gotta be this. And I don't believe in that. So I'm the guy that's just like, that's good enough. Let's move it on. Every one of my movies is good enough. Don't have to be great and shit. I saw somebody the other day on Twitter, was like, it's got, like, one or two really brilliant ideas in his movie, and the rest is just some fucking horseshit.

And I'm like, yeah, I mean, that's it. You don't have to keep watching if you don't like that kind of thing. But I'm lucky I got one or two good ideas in the horse shit. Like, especially 30 years into my career.

Oh, it's fascinating, man. Because if you're always aiming for perfection, then. But a lot of times if you showing up and delivering and good enough. Cause most people don't even go that far. The fear of the. Of not being prepared for perfection prevents them sometimes from taking the step where.

It'S the fear of not being able to achieve perfection. I just accept early on it's like, never gonna be fucking perfect. And you're never the dictator of this anyway. And I don't mean the dictator like a guy or an autocrat. You don't get to dictate whether or not that thing is what it is that you say it is. You make a thing with one intention. The audience can tell you what that fucking thing is, what it means, and shit like that. This is a story I tell an awful lot. So if you've heard this in another place, I apologize. But when I was making the 430 movie, and this ain't to bring it back to that. No, like, it's relevant to just conversation. I was shooting a scene with the three boys. They're in the car, and they're just like, fucking goofing off while they're driving, dancing while they drive, playing chocolatons. I feel for you. So they were, you know, for direction. I went over to the vehicle and I was like, kids, you know, you're just goofing around. Dance whatever the fuck, do whatever you want, just as long as you make it iconic.

And I walked away, and that fucked all of their heads up. I had no idea. Like, Nick, who plays Bernie in the movie, was like, that's your fucking direction. Make it iconic. That's a little fucking pressure, don't you think? And I was like, well, no. I said, oh. Then I realized I have the benefit of experience. I've been doing this for 30 years. I was like, what I mean by that is that every decision that you're making here in real time is like dropping a stone in the water and watching the ripple effect or the butterfly effect. Like, it's crazy what people, years from now, will concentrate on about this weird little moment in the movie that you're just like, what should we do? And I'm like, oh, just make it iconic. And I mean that. Because people will be watching this scene forever and it will hopefully connect with them. Even if it's somebody who wasn't alive in 1986, a current day teenager who could see that fucking sense, that joy that's in the scene. So these things we do in the moment, like this fairy bit passes and it's just a fucking Kevin Smith movie.

But I promise you, this movie is somebody's gonna be somebody's fucking life preserver. This is gonna be their buoy. That's gonna keep them fucking drowning. And I know that because I've been doing it 30 years. And I was at the Dallas fan Expo, like, last year, and a guy came up to me. It was like, in his maybe early thirties, late twenties, early thirties, and he had a copy of Mallrats on VHS. Very well worn copy and shit. I was like, holy shit. Look at this fucking ancient piece of americana. How many times you watch this? He goes, a lot. I said, who am I signing it to? He goes, I want you to make it out to my son. Gave me his son's name. I was like, what's the story there? You get a few minutes to have this exchange, and my man rocks my fucking world. And he goes, I'm going to give this to my son when he's older. He's gone. This is the movie that saved my life. And I'm like, thank you. And you hear that a lot. I'm sure you've heard that, too, where people are like, bro, your show saved my life.

Or blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I'm driving. You're the difference between me going crazy and not. Or I saw your stand up special. It made me fucking laugh. And that fucking. I needed that on that day because I was circling the fucking drain. So in this business, we have experience with people that perhaps overly express it by saying something like, oh, my God. Fucking your shit saved my life and stuff. So I've heard that sentiment, and I know how to receive it. And I'm like, oh, my God, thank you. That's so kind. And he goes, no, I'm serious. He's going, my father used to beat the shit out of me every day after school. I'd come home, and he would mercilessly, relentlessly beat me to the point of fucking near dying.

Wow.

He's like. And then I would crawl to my bedroom. Bloody mess. And I would close the bedroom door, and I put in mallrats. And I was escaped to the mall with T's and Brody and Jay and salmon, and he's going, and that was my happy place. And that's how I survived living with my father through this fucking tape. He goes, now I have a son. And he's going, and I would never be the piece of shit that my fucking father was to me my whole life. And I want to give my kid this tape when he's old enough so he understands he could survive anything because his father survived the absolute worst. And this was the he clung to.

Wow.

And naturally, I gave him a big hug and I was like, no. Did you survive that shit? Like, fucking, this is just a movie that might have helped, but, like, when you share of yourself like that, you go off and make, and, you know, don't matter what it is when it comes to movies, they have this weird impact. It doesn't matter what we do when it comes to this show, when it comes to your live shows, but particularly when you make something like a movie, people cherish that kind of thing because you're in and out. There's an engagement period of 90 minutes to 2 hours. Gonna take you on a ride and then bring you back and leave you where you were. So everyone knows what to expect in that. And over the course of their lifetime, they've turned to movies in times of trial.

Oh, yeah, I watch Family man every year to feel good.

So you create that and you become that for somebody else. So the movie you're talking about making with Spade, I guarantee you one day somebody comes up to you and tells you a story as fucking and heartbreaking, yet as wonderful as that, which is like something you didn't even give that much thought to. Like, if my man came up to you, he was like, dogma saved my life. I'd be like, I understand it, man. Like, fucking, I worked hard on that. And that movie's pretty fucking profound on some levels and shit. Yes, it has a lot of butt fucking jokes, but I like to balance it out. But when somebody tells you, like, mallrats saved their life, you're like, I wasn't thinking of that when I made that movie. Do you think 25 year old Kevin Smith was going, this is gonna save somebody's life? Hold on, jaydeh. Get ready to fucking swing me across the fucking mall. And, you know, it's, you don't think about that. So when I told the kids, make it iconic, that's what it comes down to. Even the things you're not thinking about that as being important, you think are dismissive or just, oh, it's just a moment in the movie.

Someone will find that as the buoy that keeps them from fucking drowning. So every moment then is kind of important. But isn't that the lesson of life in general? Every moment is kind of important, man. Like, you know, when I was the nut house, they say all sorts of simplistic shit which is fucking really helpful. You could put it on a towel and stuff in a kitchen. Aphorism or whatever. Fuck. And what they say every day is a gift. That's why it's called the present. And it's kind of true. Like, it's absolutely true. Like, so often we're so fucking bored as a species that we don't think about, like, you're only gonna get so many breaths. You're only gonna get so many heartbeats and shit like that. And I always tell my wife after the heart attack, I was like, I'm living on borrowed time. And she's like, that's fucking macabre. And I was like, no, I'm painfully aware. We're all living on borrowed time. I'm just fucking well aware of it. Act accordingly.

Do you think, like, as a creator, did you ever want to invent something? You ever also think about inventing something, but you didn't do it? Because a lot of times people who are creative think about things like this.

Is there ever been an invention, like fucking flow be or something?

Right. But anyone that kind of stood out in your head or something? Because I thought, like, I've been trying.

To make this movie, moose Jaws for ten years. One day I'm gonna get. It's gonna happen. I'm gonna find the money for it, and eventually I'm gonna get to the place where I'm like, you know what? I'll just put up my house. I ain't got Theo Vaughn money and shit, but I got a nice house where I could probably.

You can live in that celsius cooler if you want to, dad.

I will. I'll sell my house, live there. I'm like, honey, get ready.

Cause who, like, yeah, I always say, like, who invented the swimming pool or whatever. Like, I always think about who invented certain stuff, you know, or, like. And then I think if I would want to have an invention, like, I thought of, oh, I used to think there was a dog collar or whatever, that if. Cause they had a lot of howling dogs bus, when I was a kid, if it howled, it would help the dog learn how to howl more melodically or whatever, like a. Musically, you know? So eventually that how just like, oh.

Yeah, it's like, oh, there's somebody to howl with because they always harmonize when there's more than one.

Right?

So only dog. It's almost like having a pocket pal.

Like Bell biv dog bo or dog bo or something like meso Spaniel or.

First draft for a name. But I like where you're going.

Okay, good. Yeah. But wouldn't it be beautiful. If you're laying there and one of them houses, you like these motherfuckers, but then they're like, totally.

And they're all fucking singing in unison and shit.

So I thought if you could do a group collar, like, for a neighborhood or small region, I thought that that would be pretty cool.

And then you. And then fucking. They're the next nirvana. Three neighborhood dogs that just got together and have these harmonies in college and people like, he's singing exactly how I fucking feel. I don't know what he's saying, but that's how I feel. That's a beautiful thing about art. You don't even have to know the lyrics to a song by dog Nirvana. You just feel it when you play it. It's why. If I was a. If I wish I was in a different art form. If I was a singer, I can open up my mouth, sing a note, and you'd know how I felt. That be me, my self expression. If I was a painter, I could take a blank canvas, put some color on it. You know how I felt. But I'm a director. I chose directing as an art form is the dumbest art form, because that's where you say shit like, I need to self accept, express. Give me $20 million in Ben Affleck's stat. It's. It's not. It's not the. It's. It's not the best art form for a guy like me. I always felt like me and film was like, me trying.

Like, I took Spanish in high school. Four years of school.

Yeah.

But very minimal unpopo Spanish. So I always think of me as a filmmaker, as, like, somebody who took four years high school Spanish, you know, got seized to ds and then tries to go to Spain and passes a local.

Oh, I see.

Visual. Visually speaking, visual storytelling is not my first language. Like this shit. If movies were this, like, just two dudes sitting down and talking.

Yeah. You'd be Jerry Garcia.

Oh, fuck Jerry Garcia, man. I'd be making that Theo Vaughn money.

You've gotten a. Yeah. Did you ever think of an invention? I just know creative people always wonder if they think of inventions, you know?

I don't. I'm not. I guess you've struck the nerve. I'm not creative because I would think of an invention if I did. But I never doubt that. I know that self involved. My head's.

You created a lot of stuff.

Yeah, but just about me and my world and shit. Very myopic. So, no, I've never thought, like, ooh, this invention would be good for others. I've never, like, done something like, gotta be a better way.

You've gotten to direct a lot of. You got to direct George Carlin. You've gotten to direct Ben Affleck. Anything that stands out to you about talented men like that in general or talented actors in general. Anything that they all have in common or something that you notice about people that are able to grab people's attention.

It's a cool question. I like it. Let me see. Is there such a thing as, like, that person's got it? I do believe in that. What are the kids called today? Riz.

Riz, yeah. Aura.

Aura. That's the new word.

Yeah, I think. Anyway, I'm not sure.

Any time I get a new word, I don my clock back a little bit. All right, kids, but let's just go with the Riz, which was like, ten minutes ago or whatever the fuck. The ones that got the Riz, those are the ones you know about. Like, they work a lot because they've got this, like, natural charisma where it's like, camera loves them. They know how to be exactly in front of a camera. You know, somebody like Brad Pitt, born to be in front of a camera, you know? And one could argue, like, well, over time, he learned how to be in front of a camera. Sure, maybe. But, like, number one, he's attractive to look at. In movies, we like to look at attractive people and stuff. Number two, he seems very relaxed and natural. So you never, like, he's acting. It almost seems like he's fucking under acting. A lot of times, he's just not phoning it in, but he ain't trying, man. You don't get the fat feeling this thirsty motherfucker is really going for it just there. And he eats all the time in the movies. He's always just sitting there fucking eating and shit.

Casual as fuck. So that dude's got, like, dripping with charisma. That's why he's goddamn movie star. So all of them, when you reach that level, like, where you're casting people who've been in other things that are famous, they're all fucking. They all got the Riz. They're all Jedi's. Like, at a certain point, you start working with complete Jedi's across the board. It's just a, you know, a fucking matter of how Jedi are they, how fucking powerful are they and stuff. Like, everyone could do it, but, like, some people are exceptional. So Michael Parks, the guy that was in red state for us in Tusk, he's the crazy old man in red state and Tusk, he passed on rest in power. That dude was, like, brilliant. The finest actor I've ever met. Best actor I've ever met in my life. He gives an eight minute hate speech in red state that, like, I'm not gonna say it almost convinces you, but, like, you forget that it's a vile fucking speech that he's giving because it's delivered so incredibly well. And through the southern patois that he chose and stuff. That guy has had it. He's passed now.

But yes, to answer the question, absolutely. I think there's other words for it. People. You always say they got it, but for lack of a better description, it would be the Riz. They got the Riz. Ready to go, man. Extra.

Do you think it's kind of gross how the media. The media always takes pictures of Ben Affleck looking sad or trying to make him look sad.

That's only because the public's interested in it. If they did it once and nobody clicked on it, they wouldn't take. They wouldn't fucking run that story again. But people find it fascinating where they're like, why is that guy who must be so rich and has it all, why does he look like that?

And, you know, he struggles with addiction, right? They know that that's happened. So, like, isn't it gross then at that point to, if you know somebody has, like, cause alcohol, do I think it's fair?

No, but, like, he knew the job was dangerous when he took it. He's in a high profile public position. Unfortunately, that comes along with it. You can't just sign up for movie star worldwide global fame and go like, yeah, but nobody can take pictures of me when I'm not in a good mood, right? Like, that's part of the rule. Like, if you go out in the world, we live in a world of cameras, that's gonna happen. But it only keeps happening because they did it once and people clicked on it and found it interesting, and they started making memes about it. So then people keep feeding the beast. So, you know, do I think it's fair? Well, let's break it. Let's break it down like this. I'll break it down like a Catholic. You know, Ben's wife. Ben's life is pretty wonderful. From the outside, it looks like. And even from the inside, knowing him, it's pretty wonderful. And Ben's gotten to see a lot of his dreams come true. If the cost is every once in a while, somebody's like, he looks fucking sad. When he's drinking dunkin donuts. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you gotta let that shit go.

And now that's easy for me to say as a guy who, like, still finds himself dipping into the comments, going, what are they saying about me? Which is fucking recipe for disaster. Ben is not that guy. As far as I know, Ben has never had a social media account. He's had a social media account, but somebody else fed into it. He was not the guy posting, so he ain't looking for that shit. He's not real public and stuff, but it comes along with the job. If you're going to be the guy who, you know, you were one half of the goodwill hunting boys, that the whole world fell in love with you. You took your moms to the oscars. Come on. There's nothing cuter about that. They're mass hole kids and whatnot. And, you know, a lot of hand.

The patriots won so much, and the.

Fervency that goes along with that time. Not fuck them.

No. Yeah. Sorry, buddy. Yeah. Just.

It's just comes along with it. So if you don't want that anymore, everything, give up the other thing. Yeah, but unfortunately, it's just. It's a byproduct of the job that you've chosen.

Yeah.

Like, you know, if. If Ben was a teacher in Cambridge, he could go out, smoke a cigarette, drink dunkin donuts and look like he's having an existential crisis all he wants and nobody would give a fuck.

Yeah, it's true.

But because he's Ben Affleck, people have this idea that, like, he should be happier than that. And it's like, come on, man. Like, people are like, think about, like, I live in a world of three act structure, and I realize it has really fucked me up for my entire life. Three act structure is movies.

Yeah.

And they always have an ending that's generally on the happy side, but there's an ending and a conclusion. And when those credits roll, those characters don't have to fucking go back to work on Monday and just have a normal ass fucking day. Or then you see them fail, or you see that couple that fell in love fucking, like, fall apart and shit like that. You don't see that movies are happy snapshots moments and stuff like that. So most people think, like, somebody like, affleck is like, oh, my God, this guy's got it made. He must be happy every fucking second of the day. It's possible. Oh, I don't think fucking happy.

I think he's probably just a regular dude. I just think it's 100% if like that there's websites and shit. If somebody is a, has, you know, suffers from like alcoholism or something, they know that they're, you know, that there's something kind of all. There's. It's a condition that they would then do that. It just seems egregious to me. Like, I wouldn't do that to somebody. Like, oh, this person's has a sickness. Let me show them. Looking to depressed or something.

It just seems neither would I. And generally I don't engage in that sort of thing.

Yeah.

But I just want to take a moment to shout you out for this. That's very sweet of you, Theo. Like that's, that's most people going the other direction. People love a train wreck, right? Nobody goes to the train station to see the train come in fucking on time unless you're getting on the fucking train. That ain't interesting. But was there a train wreck? Oh, fuck. Let's go look at the fucking bodies, as George Carlin would say. So it's nice to hear you go like, I don't like that. Like, you got a line where you're like, this guy's got drinking problems, or is that drinking problems? This might make him drink again. That's human to think that way. Rest of the world don't think that way. Rest of the world looks at that guy and they go, fuck him. He's got it all.

Yeah. So now if the fucking pats are winning fucking.

I know, I know there are levels and shit like that. Are you sports guy?

I am a little bit. I got two more. Two more questions. Did you. I know you're. Did you.

I apparently have way more. Sports guy.

Did you go to Stan Lee's funeral?

I did not go to Stan Lee's funeral.

Did you think about it? I don't know if you guys were even close or anything. I was close.

I went to Stan Lee's final birthday party, which was in December, the few months before he passed away, or right before he was 95. And he almost made it to 96. So it was his 95th birthday party. I still have pictures on my phone. When they buried him, I didn't get invited. And I'm not saying, like, oh, fuck them. They'd invite me, but there was no, like, hey, you could come or anything, but we were fucking close, man. Like, in the last year of his life, nobody was close to him because the situation, people kept him away from people. He was kind of. There was an elder abuse situation going on. Yeah, that party right there. December 28, 2017. Happy birthday. And then he died a few months after that, so. But the last year of his life, it was tough to be around him. And I don't mean tough to be around him. Cause, like, what an asshole. I mean, you couldn't get near him. The people who were kind of in charge of him kept everyone away. I couldn't text him anymore, even call him and shit like that. So I didn't have access.

Toward the end, it was a sad ending for Stan, but I realized, like, toward the end, we did a commercial, an Audi commercial, when age of Ultron was coming out, and the premise of the commercial was, like, the Stan Lee school of cameo acting. So he would put on, like, Thor's helmet and be like, this is acting. And then he put on, like, a random general helmet. He's like, this is cameo acting. Cause Stan did a lot of cameos and shit. So the whole spot is that. And then he gets in an Audi and drives away. And it's a class. I'm in the class. Jason muse is in the class. Michael Rooker's in the class.

Might've seen it.

Yeah, years and years ago. So we shoot this spot, and I was hanging out with Stan all day, and then we doing the last shot where car goes past Lou Ferrigno hitchhiking, like at the end of the incredible.

Hulk when I saw him at the post office once.

Lou fringo. Yeah, awesome, dude. Nice. Very nice to me. So Stan's, like, body man, business guy, financial guy, came to set to, like, watch the end of the show, and he was hanging out by monitor, and we were chitchatting, and he was like, oh, I love this stuff. I love production. He's going stand so happy. He always has a good time hanging out with you. And I was like, oh, I always like being around Stan, too. It just seemed like a nice thing to say. And then the guy, like, fucking lethal is a heart attack. He goes, you know, he thinks of you like a son fucking. Like, I was like, what? Like. And then it occurred to me that, like, I always thought he was just being nice to me because we put him in mall rats. Like, he was just being Stan political, which is like, hey, everybody. Yeah, everybody's fucking grandpa. But he legit actually, like, liked me as a person. And, yeah, when I see that picture.

Actually, I thought of that for a second, kind of.

He taught me a lot.

He had a father son vibe.

He taught me how to be me for a living. He didn't sit me down. Be like this. I beat. But this is a dude who, like, you know, it was one thing to be creative, right? Like, he co created most of the Marvel universe, and. And, yes, you know, of course, he worked great artists like Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby and whatnot, but, like, the imagination that went into it, this was a man who wanted to write the great american novel. Like, I remember talking to him, interviewing at one point, he was like, well, I really wanted to write the great american novel. And I was like, stan, you did like, you just didn't do it as a book. You did it with the Marvel universe. It's our modern fucking mythology. But he wasn't aiming for that. It's something he did for money and backed into. And then later on, the culture shifted, like, into his favor, because people like comics, but he was, like, fucking banging the symbols for comics. Since I was a kid, I remember my father calling me out one morning. I was getting ready for school. He goes, get inside.

Spider Man's dad is on tv. And it was on Good Morning America, talking to one of the earliest hosts before even Joan London on Good Morning America about comic books. And here was a grown ass adult Mandez on television talking about something I was passionate about, something that I knew very well and loved. So I respected the dude right away. I knew his voice even before I saw him and even before I heard his voice. And, like, Spider man is amazing friends in every episode, because he would write that stamp soapbox, and in it, he was a salesman. He was an artist, don't get me wrong. And he co created all those characters, but that don't mean shit. You could make a million books and characters and shit. If you don't know how to sell yourself or you sell your work, nobody gonna hear about it. And that guy, you know, a lot of people, like, he took all the credit himself. I'm not here to address that. All I know is he pushed the medium of comics so far. He was out there in the mainstream. He would go to colleges before anyone respected comic books.

When colleges were like, these books, you know, 1020 years after Stan wrote these stories, he would be invited to come proselytize, talk about the art form. The emerging art form. One of the only true american art forms is the fucking comic book, the superhero comic book. So this was a man who was, like, out there doing the work, like, building, like, fucking rails upon which billion dollar fucking films are made.

Now move.

Now.

I mean, Deadpool doesn't happen. If that doesn't happen exactly.

And he didn't create Deadpool, nor did he create Wolverine, but. But he created the playground in which those two characters were created by other. Other creators in the Marvel universe. Yeah, comics and stuff. So, yeah, yeah, I miss them. I learned a lot from me. It's like, you can't expect other people to love your shit unless you love it first. You gotta love it the best. That's what I was saying, like, a long time ago. You're the only audience you can guarantee to satisfy. So if you keep your budget low, real low, and it don't matter, go for it and stuff, but just don't expect the whole world's gonna come. Modify your expectations. Like my wife. Okay.

Hmm. So the 430 movie, it's about the.

First 85 minutes long, and it touches.

On, like, young love, kind of that first moment.

Oh, it's dripping with fucking young love.

God. You remember that? You remember going to your first date movie or not, at that movie theater?

Absolutely. The whole movie is about that first date with my high school girlfriend, like, Kim Locran, who? Kim Garvey. Now she married. But the flick is set at the movie theater, smock Castle Cinemas that I have with my friends in Jersey in Atlantic islands. You can go to it and go see movies there. We do events there all the time. Smogcastlecinemas.com, comma. Look for events. It's in Red bank in Atlantic Highlands, New York. Atlantic island, not far from Red bank, but in that theater, hanging up, like, behind the ticket counter is a note that I wrote to Kim. Kim Loughren wrote to me when we were in high school, and it said, kevin, will you take me to see Dirty Dancing at the Atlantic Highlands Twin Cinema this Thursday or whatever? Love, Kim. So it's hanging up at the theater because, like, the note was about that theater. And I grew up and bought that fucking theater with my friends and kept it alive and stuff. So the movie is aching with, like, star crossed first love. And, you know, I remember to talk about it. I'd read a review for pretty in pink when I was a kid, and it was in the Asbury park press, our local paper.

And I could never figure out who wrote it. It wasn't the person who reviewed films locally, so it was a wire service review, but of pretty in pink. They said, sometimes you just want to enjoy a movie where the biggest stakes are whether or not the kids are going to go to the prom and that stay with me since that fucking movie years and years and 40 years ago. So this movie is incredibly low stakes. It's just like, are they going to go on the date or not? I was just aching with, like, that fucking, like, oh, what it was like to be a kid in those days, before there was social media, before you were kind of isolated on your cell phone. Phones play a big part in the movie, but it's like emergency breakthroughs, like, and there are cordless phones, but it's like the pull up the thing as you talk and a lot of fucking push button dialing and stuff. So it's of an era that, like, you know, that I grew up in that kind of shaped me. And most of the movies I've ever made have been about, like, the nineties, so to speak.

I love that this movie is more about the eighties. Takes you back to, like, 86. So it is. It's really, like, wears its heart on its fucking sleeve. And the kids in it are amazing. Austin, Nick, Reed, Sienna. Like, a fantastic cast. When I finished the script, there was normally, when I make a movie, I'm like, script's the best thing about it.

Yeah.

And I always felt that way because I'm like, we can get a cool cast, but it's all predicated on the script. This is the first time I read one of my scripts and I was like, well, I hope the cast is real good, because there's not real. There's not a lot going on in the script. I said, but if the cast is charming, this movie will work. And the cast is crazy, wonderful, charming. And so if the movie works at all, it's because of them. Because Ken Zhang, because Justin Long, because all the people that are in it. But September 13, you could say to theater near you, and then digitally, of course, it'll be.

We'll share about it on my socials too, man. I'll make sure that we remember that. Yeah, I remember being that age, just praying that my dick would be big. You know, we used to do that all the time, me and my buddy.

I pray for that. I was always okay with the dick size, and it wasn't big, but I was like, when did you realize you didn't have a big dick? Why were you praying for something? For all you knew, you had the big stick.

Well, I think at like, twelve or 13, you started praying. Some people started praying about it, like, around.

But did you have a size comparison to look at and be like, my dick's not like that.

No, but you just knew people wanted.

How did you just know, Theo?

People said like, oh, you got a little. People would say, oh, why'd you believe him?

You had no proof. Proof's in the pudding. If you're. If you're not seeing it, you're being it. All this time, you've been worried that you got not a big enough dick. You could have gone home anytime you wanted. All you had to do was click your heels together. You have. For all you know, you got the biggest dick in the world. You know what? Your show, whip it out. Let's find out. I'll take out mine, and you're gonna feel like a champion. You're gonna be like, oh, I'm better than them in this way, too.

Hey, look, you can hide eleven of my dicks buying 1 celcius. Can I tell you that?

That's my dream, to be thick as a Celsius can. As tasty.

Oh, now we're talking.

Yes.

Arctic blast.

Be very easy to get blown if you taste like Arctic blast.

Especially if your wiener had, like, one of those pop things at the end. Like a pop top.

If they could just pop it over. And also if when they were done, they were gonna be like, I'm gonna feel energetic because it could burn extra calories.

Like, I'm ready for work. That would change your wife's behavior in the morning, I think.

Truly would. Maybe I could get, like, 08:00 a.m. 09:00 a.m. going up. Oh, God.

I'm a pray about that.

So, wait, but you said something before. You don't live right now. You're not in a relationship?

No.

When was the last year's relationship?

Probably like four or five years, you know? So I want to be in.

That's why you're successful, son. Oh, I feel like fuck love. You're like, I'm married to my job. Yeah, that's what happens. So now the job's in a great fucking place. Now you're like, hmm, who will I share all this with?

Yeah. Now I gotta find a wife. I gotta get some. I gotta get a little bit of help first. I got a deco wife.

You don't need to find a wife. You just need to find somebody. Yeah, you got marry him and shit like that.

Yeah.

You got a lot to protect right.

Now, so don't fucking find a partner in crime.

Yeah. When you're done doing it, when you're done being Theo and, you know, you just go be Theo. Yeah.

And just have some. Some kid that are your own to play with.

Be careful, though, when you have kids and you want to hang out with them and you do shit with them. Public gets shitty. I put up that thing about beardless, stickless me on my instagram, and there was some somebody who's like, ew, stop forcing your kid down my throat. And it's like, you don't have to fucking listen. It's a free podcast. I'm mandatory. I'm not saying there's, like, taxes where it's like, you got to do this. It's like, if you don't want to fuck with it, don't fuck with it. It's always amazing to me when, like, people get hostile and shit like that. There's one guy who's like, this is the weirdest reaction. He goes, I saw a video where you crying on YouTube and shit. You went crazy and you said you were stopped posting. And now it's, give me a dollar here, give me a dollar here. And you're doing this podcast. So I went through everything he said. I was like, is any of this true? And I did do a YouTube video, but I wasn't crying in it. And I did say I was gonna, like, not fuck with my socials as much, which I didn't for the better part of a year after I got out of the fucking nut house and shit, I stayed away from that shit so I could try to figure out how I felt about myself, never mind how this random fucker feels about me and shit.

And then he was saying that, like, I asked for a dollar here and there. It's not true. I was advertising a free fucking podcast. And I was about to respond, and then I was like, you know, you've been around so fucking long, you know the game. Why are you even fucking wasting a second, man? So I just deleted that shit, moved on with my day. It's like they taught me in the nuthouse, man. Like, there's two places that human beings love to exist, and they're two least healthy places for a human being to be. The past and the future. The condition of the human being is such that we spend so much of our time thinking about what we've done and what went wrong and what could have and should have happened and our regret, and we relitigate the past like, we're expert fucking lawyers and barristers and shit like that. And so we're not here in the moment. We're in the past going like, oh, remember I said that shit? And why didn't that person say hi that time? And fucking, man, how come that dude's doing it? I'm not. Why are they ahead of me and shit like that?

That's all fucking stuff. You can't do anything about past happened. You can't rewrite that. I can't change it. Yeah, maybe if you, Tony Stark, you can go back and change it, think, then endgame happens. But you cannot fucking change the past. So stay out of the fucking past. Because the past is depression, future is anxiety. Nobody controls that shit. Nobody knows what's going to happen. And you can't sit there. We, a lot of people you meet and be like, you should write a story. Like, I'm creative like you. Bullshit. Everybody in this audience is way more creative than me as finer writer than me, if not better. When it comes to imagining a dire future for themselves, we are all the most creative and inventive fucking individuals. When we're thinking about all the shit that could go wrong, we build scenarios, crazy scenarios about this happens and this and this and this, and we live in them. They're so fucking real. The body remembers. There's a book called the body remembers, which is about trauma and how the body stores trauma. Scientifically proven body remembers trauma. So then later on in life, when you think about the trauma, guess what?

The body remembers it and it revisits it through the amygdala and shit like that. So when you've got PTSD, that's why people get the shakes or fucking have to be away from people and stuff that's real. The physically, the body remembers fucking trauma and stuff like that. So the best way past all that shit, I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out. But stay out of the past, God damn it, and stay out of the future because you can't do anything about it. All that fucking, like, think about this, all that, like, oh, my God, this is gonna happen and this happens and everything fucking goes wrong and I lose again and shit.

Oh, yeah, it's nightmare you is.

It's not true, though. It's all fiction that you're just making up. You're gonna make some future shit up. Cause that's what it is. You don't know what's gonna happen. Flip the script and just fucking make.

Up all happy, fucking goofy ass good shit for yourself.

Might as, dude, it has as much likelihood as fucking happening. That's the truth. It ain't even fucking fantasy. It's like you're already not you, but the collective view. You're already living in fantasy. If you're like, no, only bad shit happens, you're already fucking weaving a fantastic fucking tale that is untrue and it's based on no facts whatsoever. So if you can do that. Fucking change it to, like, you know what Marvel calls me all of a sudden? I'm directing the next fucking Avengers movie. Yeah, it has just as much a chance of happening as the negative bullshit. So if we can't live in the past or shouldn't live in the past, and it's unhealthy, and we shouldn't live in the future past. The depression, the future, anxiety, there's only one place to be. We have no choice. Be here in the present. But so often we're not in the fucking present, man. Nobody wants to be in this moment. They want to be there. Everyone's headed to a place, and then everyone's obsessing about where we've been kids. This is what they taught me in the nuthouse. I'm gonna save you a lot of fucking money and time and shit like that.

Be here and now. Be mindful. Breathe. The easiest way to do that, if your head's going crazy and you're in the the fucking future and shit, and you're worrying about some bad bullshit, if you're in the past worrying about some old fucking shit that happened, what you need to do is just this crazy shit. Free as fuck. Breathe. You go. Just breathe in and out five times. Deep breaths. And you know what it does? It grounds you. Do you know why? Because you cannot breathe in the past and you cannot breathe in the future. You can only breathe in the here and now. So by breathing, you bring yourself back to the moment. You pull yourself out of that fake future that you're fretting about. You pull yourself out of that horrendous past that you're still traumatized by, and you're here now, and you can sit there and go like, well, wait, is anything wrong? No, my body's reacting to some shit I was thinking about. Cause the body stores trauma. And I just did this to myself. I created this condition. You could pull yourself out of that. I'm not saying this is a cure for everything.

Some people go through real shit, but when you're in your head, yeah, that ain't real shit. And you may have gone through real shit in your life, but when you're in your head fretting about it, you are making up a fucking fiction.

You don't recognize that. Yeah, because you don't even recognize it.

And you work yourself up the body, fucking dude. You could. I had a fucking heart attack. And yes, I had heart attacks. I had fucking packed, you know, lad full of cholesterol and shit like that. People could put themselves in. They say stress is the number one killer. Get you to that hard stress is created by sitting around going like, aw, fucking what if it don't work out, man? It'll never work out because it never worked out in the past. Remember that fucking time you tried that thing and it didn't work? You're fucking asshole. You got to put that shit away, flip the script and be like, I'm in the here and now. If you can't do that and you got to be in the future, just make up a better future. It has just as much a likelihood is coming true as the fake bullshit that you're fretting about, and it's ruining your life.

At least be an author for your the best for yourself.

You're gonna make it up. Make up good shit.

Kevin Smith 430 movie comes out September 13 and my podcast with my kid and the smogcast network Beardless.

No, it's not hard. My heart network beardless, dickless me. I took all my shit behind a paywall years ago on my podcast and shit. So this is the first one I'm going out in the world and seeing like, what would it be like if I had infrastructure and folks at I heart were like, do it here. So I was like, so beardless. Dickless me. It's funny. I just sit around and try to make her fucking laugh. I know some people like, ew, fuck you and your happy kid.

No, I think it's. That's sweet.

It is.

Thank you, man. Thanks for all the entertainment. Thanks for all the being. You're trying your best to be yourself through your medium. And, yeah, so many people have enjoyed so much your work over the years.

You're like, I'm not one of them, but I appreciate the fact that it exists.

We've all enjoyed your work over the years.

You're gonna be in that next generation.

Bob movie and, like, serious. Oh, selling the weed?

I didn't say that. Don't start writing the podcast. I'll take care of that. No, but you got to play Jay's brother. I'm telling you, Jay's vibe is so similar. I guarantee you in the comments, kids in his comments should be like, oh, my God. Fucking you and Jay. Like, sometimes you ever watch a movie or tv show and they do, like, a familial pairing like a mother and daughter? You're like, that shit is fucking 100% on. I put you next to Jay in a movie, and you both talk 100%.

Wow.

You're Jay's long lost brother who just was raised in the south and. Yeah. Or your twang is from South Jersey. Yeah, I did that joke in a movie. I'll do it again.

A lot of times, people in Louisiana get people accusing from being from New Jersey. Thank you so much, Kevin.

Thank you for having, man. Thank you for letting me talk as much as I did. Apologies to anybody who tuned in to listen to Theo talk because I feel like I did most of the talking.

Dude, you know, it's so funny. Is a blessing. I was kind of tired today, and I'm grateful that you spoke.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

Fuck it. Honestly, that's 100% me. Meaningful to me. Number one, that's fucking crazy real. And number two, I know what that means as a person who's done this. A bunch of shit. It's just like, he's coming in. All right? Like, I like him. And he made clerks, all right? But I ain't feeling up to it today. So the fact that I was on motor mouth and you were like, this works for me 100%. Anytime you don't feel like working, you want me, I'll sit here and talk the whole time, and you can fucking sit there and be present in the.

Moment and breathe and. Sorry, the AC wasn't working. The coldest thing. It wasn't the eight. The coldest thing in here is that Celsius cooler.

Are you kidding me?

We had it open earlier.

This is the coldest and the coolest thing fucking in here. Actually, you're the coolest thing in here. Fucking Celsius cooler. Second coolest.

Well, you're cool, too, man.

Thanks, man. I did that. I said it just so you would say that back.

I'm Kevin Smith.

That shit putting on instagram. Theo Vaughn said I was cool.

Thanks, brother.

Thanks. Must be cornerstone but when I reach that ground I'll share this piece of my life out I can feel it in my bones but it's gonna take a little.