Transcript of Why Talented People Fail and Tenacious People Don't (The U2 Roadie Who Proved It)

A psychologist once told today's guest that it would be easier for him to grab a red-hot stove and hold on than to actually try at anything. That was the diagnosis: an extreme fear of failure. He flunked out of college. He waited tables at a Highway Howard Johnson's. Then a U2 tour bus rolled into the parking lot and changed everything. Scott Scoville quit his jobs, sold his car, and spent 5 weeks living in a pickup truck, sneaking into U2 shows with a fake pass, working for free. 3 years later, he was on tour with the Rolling Stones, the biggest tour in the world. Today, he runs video for the biggest names in country music. He just opened for Brad Paisley in Norway, and he wrote a book called Tenacious with contributions from Garth Brooks, Peter Frampton, and Alan Jackson. This episode is about the one trait every one of those names credits for their success. It is not talent. This is The Vault Unlocked. Let's unlock it.

This is a story about tenacity. How about a young man who traveled and chased U2, across the country, ended up on stages and opening up for Brad Paisley. I'm excited to hear this story 'cause I think everybody needs to hear it. Today, we're going behind the vault about how you can make your dreams come true. Scott, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to the show.

It is so good to be here.

It's so— I can't wait. Where do we begin?

Well, I guess we could begin at rock bottom. That's a great place to start any story, right? As a kid, I was, uh, I barely graduated high school. Um, my teachers literally got together with me and said, we think we're going to push you out. Um, I went on to college, I flunked out of college, and at that same time I was diagnosed with such an extreme fear of failure My psychologist said, "It would be easier for you to grab a red-hot stove and hang on and maim yourself than to actually try." Powerful, crazy diagnosis, but it felt right. Every time I tried to do my homework, I'd end up in tears. I just couldn't apply myself. And that put me in a pretty dark place because my fear of failure had me flunking out of college, had me actually failing. It was manifesting my worst fear. And I end up waiting tables at a Howard Johnson's on the side of the highway, not my dream job. And I wasn't even a very good waiter, but this amazing tour bus rolls in with a space shuttle painted on the side of it. And I'm like, I want to wait on them.

I honestly thought they worked for NASA. Like why the space shuttle? I didn't know what a tour bus was. I was really disappointed when they walked off the bus and they all were wearing black and had long hair. I'm like, they don't look like they work for NASA, but I took their drink orders and said, why the bus? And one of them in the thickest of Irish accents goes, "We work for the band U2. We put on the show." That blew my mind. And I had a million questions and I'm like, "I don't understand. How can you work for the band U2? What do you mean? I would've thought you had to be Bono's cousin to do that." And the guy in charge laughs and he goes, "Scott, 7 of us are the very best in the world at what we do. We put on the show, the lights, the sound." And he puts his arm around the guy next to him and goes, And this is AJ, he's Bono's cousin. And so everyone starts laughing and they revealed to me a world that was incredible. And finally, after a million questions, they said, we have to go.

Why don't you just come to the next show and we'll answer more of your questions?

Yes.

So I go to that show, I have a million more questions. I'm so fascinated about— they introduced me to Bono and Edge, and I was more interested in their career that I had discovered than the fact that I just met two of my heroes. I was like, what? Lights went out, crowd went nuts. I'm standing in the middle of 15,000 screaming fans and I had a paradigm shift. This is what you're going to do with your life. You love music, you love technology, you love travel. Oh my gosh, you're going to see the world with U2. A moment later, my heart sank when I realized to do any of this I was going to have to try. I made myself a promise standing there in the dark that I was going to start trying and never stop trying, no matter how bad it got or how much it hurt. In that moment, tenacity was born within me. Now, it was a struggle for the next few years, but that's, that's where it started. Wow.

You hear every story has that rock bottom in the moment where the lights go down, it's just you and the world, and you have to face the question, "Do I actually want to change my life? Do I want more?" And it sounds like and seems like that was one of those moments for you.

Yeah, they're few and far between, right? A pivotal moment like that. I've had maybe 2 or 3 in my life. This was a massive one for me. And it led to the dumbest plan ever. I decided that I was going to quit my 3 jobs, sell my Super Sport Camaro. School was flunking me out, so no big deal leaving there. And I moved into my Subaru BRAT, those tiny little pickup trucks. And I started sneaking into U2 shows and working for free. My plan was I was going to make myself invaluable to them. And somehow they didn't have me arrested. The police almost arrested me 3 times getting in the building, but the crew was like, what are you doing in here? And I'm like, I'm just figuring it out. Don't worry, I'm just another one of the stagehands. And for 5 weeks, I snuck in every day, worked for free. While they were all sleeping on the bus, I was driving all night to the next city. I just killed myself doing it, but it was a start. I was finally moving.

And then, I mean, most people, to me, even there, I have to tell you, it just seems unbelievable. So how are you even getting in? So you show up and you're like, I am, I'm just the hands here, obviously.? And then who do you know to speak to to get you to do a job? And how, like, the safe work policies, all that stuff, like, how does that even happen?

It's— there's a lot to all that, so maybe check out the book. But I will say, uh, to answer your first one, I had a fake laminate, but it wasn't totally a fake laminate. I just— the backside of their laminates, that was white. Who does that nowadays? They're never white. I made a laminate that was white on both sides, and then I saw that they had like radio channels. They also had laminates, passes hanging around their necks that had like radio channel numbers and things on them they needed to remember. And so I made that, but not the official pass. And then I would just pilot. Now, when you're trying to get in during the show, security is high. If you wait till after the show when the stagehands are showing up, way lighter. So I did that. I wasn't going to the shows. I wasn't a groupie. I was a roadie groupie. I wanted to be in with the work. And so it was lighter and I would just look like I didn't want to be there with my fake laminate hanging around my neck. And if someone caught me and stopped me, which happened pretty often, I would act freaked out that I had lost my laminate and not seem like I was worried about getting in trouble with them.

I'd be like, "Oh my God, they're going to kill me. God, maybe it's on the bus." And I would turn around and like run back up the ramp like I was going to the bus to find my laminate. And then I would sneak in a different door. And only 3 times did it get to where I was talking to the police and having to do some fast talking. But they didn't arrest me.

No, there was a man on a mission there. So fast forward here, 'cause I mean, that can spend the whole time on that story alone. So what happens now? You said you've been following them for a couple weeks, couple months.

Yeah, yeah. And I'd become something of a mascot. They were rooting for me, the truck drivers and all that were pulling up pulling for me. And every now and then they'd lay on the horn if I was swerving a little bit, and they'd yell at me at the truck stops, "You gotta pull over, you can't make it all night." And I'd be like, "Okay." And then I would just pull out way behind them so they couldn't see me anymore, because if I lost them, I'd have to find the place. And GPSs didn't exist back then. This is 1987. I'm doing this. So I'm using a Rand McNally Road Atlas to find the venue. No thanks, I'd rather follow the bus. But I did all that for 5 weeks, felt like I was maybe making some impact. But the reality is they were all experts at what they did. I was just figuring out how to coil cables and latch road cases, right? Like, I was— I didn't belong. But 5 weeks in, the union in Buffalo had a dispute with a band and someone was saying something about me, and that ended up in the union's ears.

And so in their argument over a bigger problem, they said, and you have non-union labor here working with you. And that's stealing union jobs. And they fined the band $5,000. Now, I don't think the band ever had to pay it, but that event drew attention to me and upper management went, what are you guys doing? You're letting this kid roll around like he's gonna fall asleep in the middle of the night, crash his car, and his parents are gonna sue us and his life is gonna be on our hands. He has to go. So I made it 5 weeks before that moment.

That's still, I mean, I mean, it's still impressive. That's very impressive.

It's an eternity. Try living in your car for 5 days. Yeah. I lived in it for 5 weeks.

5 weeks. I couldn't imagine. I can't imagine. So then what happens? You find— you get caught. Uh, obviously tenacity's in you. So where does it go?

Good timing, right? Because, uh, video was brand new to the industry. And so I was— had a lot of time to think while I was driving from city to city. And I'm like, if I'm going to get into this industry, I want to do the thing that's brand new instead of getting on the bottom rung of the lighting ladder. I didn't want to be like brand new at the thing that people have been doing for 30 years. Why don't I be brand new at the thing that's been around for a year? The video was literally brand new at shows at that point. And so that's what I did. I got some great advice from the crew who were great friends to me, and they said, you know, hey, go to school for this. Lawrence Anderson from the crew said, go to school for this projector because nobody knows how to run it and you'll get work. And I did. I was hired before I even got out of the 1-week-long class on how to do the projector. A company out of DC hired me. I did corporate video for a year and a half. The company was great.

My coworkers were great. I hated the work. No loud screaming fans, no music, just ballrooms and videos on why software is good and you should buy it and things like that. But I, I learned the gear and kept trying to put myself in the right place at the right time. And managed to, uh, be in the right place at the right time and draw interest from someone who had just gotten the Rolling Stones tour. So within 3 years of that U2 encounter, I was on tour with the Rolling Stones doing the biggest tour in the world.

Wow. Wow.

But the important thing is that whole thing where I would fall into tears trying and couldn't try— in those 3 years, I got over that. And I learned that failure is not death. It is not the end of the world. It is, in fact, it's a stepping stone. It's necessary. It's where you learn everything. You learn everything in failure. You learn nothing from not failing and hanging it out there. And when I, with that knowledge and that tenacity that I had to build up to overcome my dysfunction, I've just applied that time and time again throughout my life to chase dream after dream. So yeah, it got me my first dream, but more importantly, it has been the key element in this life I live.

Yeah. I mean, I couldn't agree more when you talk about we learn more in failure than we ever do in our successes. That's the truth. Yeah. So again, I just— 5 weeks of following U2, and now you're actually on tour traveling with the Rolling Stones.

Still hard because I felt like I was in over my head. I felt like I was failing all the time. I still wasn't— first 5 months of it were all, I would say, torturous. Like, here's the dream, but you want to be awesome in your dream. And instead, I felt like I was failing every day. And I just— but I didn't give up. And I kept trying, and little by little I got better. And somewhere around— we did, uh, we did the first 6 months or so, we're in America, then we took like a little bit of time off for Christmas, then we went to Japan. And I'm sitting in Japan where we're doing a month of shows at the Tokyo Dome with the biggest band in the world. And somewhere around there I went like, am I, am I okay? I'm okay, I think. And that, by the end, by the time I left Japan, I'm like, I'm like, okay, I can have fun. This is okay. I'm not terrible. I could be better, but holy cats, I'm on tour with the Rolling Stones. And by Europe, it was like a victory lap and, and so much fun and so many stories.

That's— there, there's a story within a story there. It almost sounds like when you were in Rolling Stones which is the biggest tour on stage at that time, guaranteed.

It was the biggest in the world, um, for, for decades. It was 450 crew members. It was massive. And I was one of the 38 that had to be in every city.

Interesting, because it sounds like in that moment your identity hadn't caught up with who you were actually being in the world.

Imposter syndrome. I mean, I really wasn't as good as I wanted to be, but are we ever?. But to me, at that point, it was still— that was still like death. Yeah, you had to be perfect. So we all have our reasons why we have dysfunctions like this, and, and I could write a whole book on why I have those dysfunctions, but instead I chose to write a book on how I got over them, because I think it's the same way you get over any dysfunction, what— whatever it is. And that's by just— don't let the fear of what it is keep you from trying, keep you from getting out there and failing. Because, man, not trying is failing, and failing is nowhere near as bad in reality as it was in my head. And that is so true, I think.

That's— I—

wow.

Failing was nowhere near as bad in reality than it was in my head.

Yeah. And I think that's always the truth. There's a great quote in the book. Amelia Earhart says, your fears are paper tigers. And I'm like, yeah, like they look really scary and you get close up on them and you're like, this isn't even a real tiger. Like this can't even bite me. And maybe the failure hurts and it does, right? But it's not the end of the world. To me as a kid, it was so terrifying that it just froze me in my tracks. But getting over that has helped with everything. And, and, you know, I, I have 17 guests in my book that chime in and write some things, some really interesting people, and they all agree. And these are people that are household names, you know, Alan Jackson, Brad Paisley, Peter Frampton, you know, Garth Brooks, Alan— let's see, a couple of astronauts, entrepreneurs. When you ask all of them why they made it, they're all like, oh, I just didn't give up. And that's what they all want to talk about. And we all kind of— maybe we all do, but I think I did— you think, well, these people are just so talented, that's why they're there.

But even though some of them might have a photographic memory or pitch-perfect hearing or the incredible ability to build muscle and balance, some of the athletes, none of them talk about that when you ask them how they made it. They're like, oh, I didn't give up. And so I'm like, "Well, why don't you talk about your talents?" And they're like, "Well, sure. Hopefully, I have some talent." But then they'll tell you people they knew that were more talented than they are. And you're like, "Who?" And you're like, "Oh, you've never heard of them. They gave up. But this person had more talent than me." And you're like, "Wow, this is just something we should be talking more about." I couldn't agree more.

I don't know if anyone who's listening heard the the natural plug in there, but in his book, Garth Brooks, Brad Paisley, astronauts, I mean, this is no joke of a book here. Obviously, you've got a network. And I love what you just said in all those people, all different walks of life who've done some, I'm going to say some great things, probably gotten to the top 1% of their careers. They don't look at it and go, it's because I had the talent or some special skill. They look at it and they say, "I'm only here because I never gave up." Yep.

All of them feel that way. And, you know, an eidetic memory, a photographic memory would be incredible to have. But if you don't have one, you don't have one. You can't develop that. Or pitch-perfect hearing, right? You can get better at pitch, but not that thing. But tenacity, if that's the most important ingredient for them, That is 100% developable because you can decide to be tenacious. And so long as you stick to it, you are. So you can go from 0 to 100% of the thing that's the most important factor in their lives and more simply mine. And I just felt like that was something that had to be discussed and we had to shine a light on it.

So let me ask you this because I think it— I'm interested. You're writing this book on tenacity and you're hearing these perspectives of all these great people. When was it or what clicked when writing this book when you said, "Oh, now I really understand what being tenacious looks like or what tenacity means." So I'm going to ask you that question right now. From all of this, what happens— What does tenacity mean to you?

I think that, um, there's just layers of it. But I, I think that when I first started writing, I was like, what would I write about? Because a friend suggested, he's like, you're such a storyteller, please write a book. And I was like, I don't think so. And then without asking me, the next day his publisher called me and said, I hear we're doing some books. And I'm like, no, but if I did, what would I do? And I started thinking about it, and the moment I thought Tenacity, I was like, well, that's the story I have to tell. Because the first thing you say is, why would anyone read my book? Like, I'm not that cool. Um, there are people that I admire that are way cooler than me, like, read their books. But then when I started thinking about it, I was like, well, that's the story that I would tell. But surely it's been told. And I Googled it and looked, and there are books that are entitled Tenacity or Tenacious, but they're always one story that they just felt like it was a tenacious story. It's not about tenacity. Uh, the closest was a book called Grit by Angela Duckworth.

Fantastic book, but she wrote it from a scientific point of view. She is a professor and has a psychology degree, and she wrote more of an analytical book, and I think it's absolutely wonderful, but I wanted to come on the other side of that with very personal stories told by the people who live them. And because I don't like to be told what to do, I am awful at that. And so, so many books that maybe are geared to help you, I struggle with because they tell me what to do. And unfortunately, to my own peril, I will very often not do that. But if you tell me a story that you lived through and I can celebrate the victories with you and die a little bit with you when it goes south, I will learn from that and I'll enjoy the ride. And so that's the kind of book I wanted to write, and that's how I wanted to present my thoughts on it. So I never tell you what to do, and I ask my guests to never do that either. What we will occasionally do is ask you a question like, you know, do you, do you wonder what it would be like if you had made different decisions 10 years ago?

Because that's what my character is doing at this moment in the book. I get that. Let me ask you this. How would you feel 10 years from now if you realized that this was the moment when you made a different decision and started acting differently? And so, I ask people questions like that, but I never say, "Hey, do this," because if you tell me what to do, I probably won't.

Probably like most people. So, how do you go from— I can see maybe a little train here, but I feel like something— there was a little bit of a gap. How do you go from chasing YouTube to imposter syndrome, you know, with the Rolling Stones of Japan to, I love what you said, I really love the comment you said, to a celebration tour of oneself. I'm going to call it the celebration tour of the identity meeting the person you actually are in the world through Europe, to writing, I guess, the book with all these professionals. To opening up now? Because you were tech guy, rolling coil, you said coil, or whatever you said, you know, carrying the equipment, to learning some tech, to actually opening up? Or you're working for the people that are opening up for Brad?

No, I'm opening.

Um, you're not singing?

I am, I'm singing.

You're, you're singing?

I'm opening, an opening act now. Yeah, I headline some festivals now over in Europe. Um, I was told as a kid I couldn't sing. And this is a great example of what you can do when you start employing tenacity and just embrace it. As a kid, I was told I couldn't sing. There were a lot of things I thought I couldn't do. I accepted that, and I believed that until I was in my 40s. And I got drunk at a party, and it's about 4 AM in Norway. I'm on vacation, and I start singing along to a Johnny Cash song on the radio. And they turned on the radio and this guy who's in a band goes, "You're singing with us tomorrow." And I go, "No, I don't sing." And he goes, "Yeah, you do. You're singing with us tomorrow." And I was just happy enough at that point that I went, "Okay." Well, the next day I was so terrified by all this. I'm like, "What is happening? Like, what? Oh my God. Like, no." But I got up on stage and I sang the song "Hurt," Johnny's rendition of that. I thought, to polite applause, I hopped off stage, ran to the bar, and went like, why did I do that?

That was a terrible idea. No one needed to hear that. And I said to the barmaid, I want all the beer, please. All of it. And I'm ruminating, and I look up and realize she's not moving. And I'm like, yeah. And she looks at me and says, I have goosebumps. And I'm like, what? It turns out I am a baritone. And I grew up in the '80s where everyone is singing like one of my guests, Jonathan Cain from Journey. Don't stop believing. They're all up in this stratosphere and I sound terrible up there. I'm a baritone. If you put me down in the low register, I can sing. And I found out in my 40s after a life in music that I could sing. The band gets offstage.

You just did it up there. I was like, I love it because your people haven't talked to my people and there's no— no one said I cannot do X or Y. So I have to just— I'm dying to hear like just one or two lines of you singing Hurt because I love that song. Like, I love Johnny Cash. If you make it—

I hurt myself today to see if I still feel.

Whoa.

Anyway.

No, no, no, no, not anyway, man. Like goosebumps.

Yeah. Check out my version on Spotify. I start yelling at the end.

Okay, I will.

It's fun. I mean, you don't want to do it exactly like the artist did it, right? So by the time at the end he's going— if you know, Johnny's like, "If I could start again." Not my version. I'm like, "If I could start again." Oh yeah, it's fun, it's fun.

I'll definitely, you know, we'll put that in the show notes too. Uh, okay, I— this is awesome.

Wow, it's fun. Wow, it's fun. Life should be fun. So yeah, I, I— the band gets off stage and they're like, join our band. And I'm like, no, what? You're a Norwegian band, I live in America. No. So there's a fun backstory here. Um, Tim Ferriss and I got to be, uh, friends. We hung out at a conference, uh, 4 years in a row, and I asked him a question that I immediately regretted asking. I said, did you do all that crazy stuff you said you did in The 4-Hour Workweek? And he got quiet. And I went, I shouldn't have asked him this question. By the way, also probably 1 in the morning, 2 in the morning. I probably also had a few too many drinks. I don't drink anymore, but I used to be quite well trained at it. But, um, he hesitated and he goes, I did, but here's the first few chapters where life happening to me when I saw my company do great when I got out of the way. I said, this is an experiment I gotta run. And he said, so all the other crazy stuff I did, I was running an experiment and I knew I was writing a book about it.

And I was like, oh, that's a great answer. And, and so I moved on, other subject. But I woke up the next morning and sat straight up in bed and went, son of a gun, my friend Tim had a life worth writing about because he was writing a book. Not the other way around. Now granted, Tim's had a really interesting life, but I made myself a promise. This is one of those moments where I made myself a promise, only a few in my life. I said, you know what, I'm— I'll never write a book. That turned out to be a lie. I didn't know I was lying to myself at that point. I said, I'll never write a book, but I'm going to start living my life like I'm writing a book, and I'm going to constantly ask myself, what would make the next chapter more interesting? Because metaphorically, this is the book I'm going to thumb through when I'm sitting on my rocking chair, and maybe I don't have the energy I do now to like climb mountains and do crazy stuff. So how can I make the book of my life the most interesting?

And I made myself a promise I was going to start doing that. And Tim, um, oh, so the band asked me to join the band, and I sat there and thought about it for a little bit, and I'm like, I'm like, this would absolutely make the next chapter more interesting. So they asked me again about a drink later, and I went, yes! Everybody cheered, and I went, okay. And I started flying to Norway to do a couple of guest songs with the band and loved it. And then I was like, it just evolved, and to the point where we ended up being Brad Paisley's opening act. I hid it from everyone in town and They announce us as playing on the main stage. We're doing pretty good. We're at this huge festival, biggest festival in Norway, um, in Seljord. And 2 weeks later, they announced the headliner is Brad Paisley. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I am the opening act for one of my best friends who has no idea that I sing. And it was pretty wild, uh, telling him. I would— the next day I was with him and I said, so Norway?

And he's like, yeah, you gotta come, come with me, you always come with me, we'll have so much fun, it'll be great. And I'm like, yeah, I'm your opening act.

Oh my God, come on, people, I hope you're listening these stories here.

This is wild. Like, what? No. And he's like, this is not funny. I go, it's not a joke. He goes, but it's not funny. I go, I know it's not funny, it's not a joke. And finally he goes, okay, sing something for me. I'm like, I don't want to just belt out a lot. So he had me sing a line of Hurt, and I finished the line, and he goes, You're my opening act. I'm like, yeah. And I go, and I need you to do me a favor, be kind. I'm just having fun. Like, don't hold me to your standard of perfection, which is part of why he's so great. Like, everything has to be perfect. And that's part of what makes Brad Paisley Brad Paisley. But here I am singing in front of an Entertainer of the Year going, but he has been kind. And, um, yeah, I mean, I'm his opening act yet again this year in Europe. Um, so if you are in Norway on June 11th or 13th.

There you go.

I'll be singing in front of 10,000 people, singing originals I wrote and having a great time. And would I have done any of this were it not for being tenacious all those years ago and learning that tool? Absolutely not. I mean, I was afraid of public speaking, but as soon as I realized I'm afraid of anything now, I charge straight towards it. I don't— I remember having the— when fear had power over me and I hated it and I was ashamed of it. Now, when I realize something scares me, I run towards it. And thankfully, I conquered my fear of public speaking because that's the only way I could have gotten up on stage that night. And how great is my life because I was brave enough to go overcome the public speaking part?

You say some things and you kind of roll past them like they're not big, but they land to me in ways that I think should be discovered and really pronounced. I now run towards the fear. That's not light. It's not something we just take easy here. So many people, and I don't like generalizing, so I'm going to say there's a lot of people that I even know in my own personal network and myself included sometimes, sometimes where the fear is paralyzing.

Yeah.

You want to get past it. You want to, you hear about running to it. You hear about these people, they run to it and you do it. But right when you get to the tip of it, you get paralyzed. Or in some cases, there's some people who don't even, nope. They run, if anything, they run far away from it. They live on the opposite side of it.

Yeah.

With your stories and the people that have gone through your path and I mean this book that I cannot wait to get my hands on. When we're talking about that and we go deep to a deeper level about that, what happens for you or what you've seen in this book when people are faced with this fear and the wall of fear is there or the cliff of fear is there and they run to it?

I'll back it up to say sometimes it's a cliff, sometimes it's a wall, and sometimes, you know, you're afraid. Sometimes you're doing something that you don't really need to do, but you tell yourself you have to do it. And, you know, you might be in your yard picking up sticks from the storm. You might be doing the laundry. You might be doing all sorts of things because they need to be done instead of the scary thing. And you don't even realize that you're sublimating, if that's the right word. You're deflecting away from the scary thing. You don't even even realize it a lot of the time. So yes, sometimes it's a cliff and a wall and a holy shit moment, and sometimes it's a, I'm gonna get around to that. But, um, it's for the mechanisms in your brain just sort of carefully protecting you. Your ego's like, what if we do other things that won't hurt us instead? And I think that, uh, between those things, yeah, it's, it's more often the little subtle things than the big obvious scary moment, but both of them freeze you in your tracks. When you're picking up sticks in your yard, you're not writing a book to try and release it in front of everybody.

You're not chasing whatever your dream is. So yeah, I think the way that you get over that is one step at a time. You just say like, all right, I'm frozen. I liked your analogy. You said you're just, you know, you're frozen. I think that's— I don't remember exactly how you put it, but you're not moving forward. It freezes you.

I guess it paralyzed.

Yeah, you're paralyzed. That's the word you use. You're paralyzed. Well, you take a step forward and you go from being the person who was afraid, too afraid to do it, to you're still a mile away from your dream, but you're one step closer, and you're no longer the person that was too afraid to do it. You immediately, with the tiniest step, become the person who's doing it. And that feels good to me. The former feels bad, just holding still and going, "Man, I really need to do that someday. Probably should do it today," to you become the guy who's doing it. "Yeah, I did this today. So, I'm moving towards my dream." And so, I encourage people, just take one little step because that makes a huge difference to me and my mindset. I go from the guy who's not doing it to the guy who's doing it. It might take me 10 years. It took me 7 years to get this book out. A better author would have had a book turned around in a year. But that's the whole point. You don't use tenacity to do the things that are easy for you.

You use tenacity to do the things you'd really like to do even though they're hard. So, for me, writing a book was hard. It took me 7 years, 7 times longer than a better author. But because I really wanted to do it. And it was worth it to me. I plugged away at it. I took one little step at a time after another, after another. And I got to tell you, it feels awesome that I get to share this story and hopefully help some people. I am proud. I'm proud of what I did. And I did it one little step at a time.

You should be proud of what you did. Absolutely, you should be. I think it's fascinating, your story. And I love it. I'm asking, I'm sitting here going, what's he doing with his time? Where do you spend your time? You got the— like, the book is written, you get to go to Norway, you know, to— I can't— Brad Paisley. Like, it just— to me, it's like, wow, okay. And where else do you spend your time? What are you doing? Where are you?

You know, yesterday I was in the studio recording 3 new songs.

Okay.

It makes sense to release music when you're doing big shows. So I'm going to have something out, either my hangover song or my song about murder. Uh, okay, I don't really kill anybody. Uh, in the book you'll see that I do psychedelic therapy. I have a whole section on being the best version of yourself. And so I wrote a book, uh, I wrote a song called I'm Gonna Put You in the Ground. And man, there's an antagonist that's just awful to my character, to the point where my character is ready to kill him. I mean, he, he makes him feel stupid, he, he steals his sweetheart, he tells him love is not for him, he crushes his dreams. And my character has to— he's just to the point where he's ready to kill him, and he does. And that's the, the song. But, but your listeners will know that, um, the gun is actually the psychedelics and, and the terrifying moment that I decided to go ahead and try and help see myself better. And, uh, who— what I'm killing is fear and doubt that doesn't belong to me, that was hardwired into me through some things that happened in my childhood.

And yeah, so, uh, the last line of the song is really fun. It says, as the smoke clears, I find that I have all of me standing over what's left of who I used to be. And I'd love to shoot a music video for it. It'd be fun to do like a Western, right? You never see the bad guy until the final frame, and you realize the that the bad guy and the good guy are the same person. So yeah, I did that. I love creating. I love making music. Uh, tomorrow I fly to New York to take care of my mom. She has dementia. She is my hero. She's one of the contributors to the book, and I love being with her and taking care of her and spending what time I can. Um, next week it's more stuff promoting the book and more music stuff. And then, uh, the week— and then on the next weekend I'll be at Luke Combs' show in Knoxville because he's one of my— he's one of my—

I forgot about Luke Combs. Sorry I forgot about Luke Combs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, he's not in the book, but—

Sorry, Luke.

Yeah, yeah. No, no, maybe the next one. I love Luke. He's a fantastic client. We just aren't— he and I aren't personally as close as the ones that I put in the book, but he's a great human, great human. So yeah, life is really interesting. I probably do a little too much, but I kind of like it that way.

So I know people are dying. Where can we get this book?

Well, everywhere, honestly. Search my name, Scott Scovell, and it's available pretty much everywhere with Simon Schuster doing distribution. Um, go to tenaciousbook.com. There's a good place to get steered in any direction. Uh, it's obviously on Amazon. There's also scottscoville.com. There's no Eon Scoville. I'm not like the unit for hotness. Um, although Brad Paisley has a funny quote about that, but, um, yeah. Um, so yeah, the, the Scott, scottscoville.com, tenaciousbook.com, but of course it's on Amazon and Barnes Noble and my Norwegian friends, it's at ARK Bookstores and it's pretty much everywhere.

You're a story guy, so I'm going to try to visualize this last question because it's coming to me and I don't even know why, but I think it's powerful. I want you to imagine you're walking on the stage, the lights are out, it's dark, and you get right to the end of that long stage, the guitar's around your waist there. And in order for the lights to turn on, you have to strum that first beat and you're sitting there and you're paralyzed and you're in your head going, I'm not worthy. There's no way I should be here, but the show must start. What advice would you give that person or yourself in that moment to just pick up the pick and let it rip?

You know what to do. Like, not— you're not frozen because you don't know what to do. You're frozen because you're afraid it will go wrong. Just pick up that pick and strum, man. Just hit it. You know what to do. And the moment you start— so I'll give you a better, a more specific example. In my show, I like to open a cappella. With a slowed-down version of "Folsom." So in pitch black, people hear me singing, "I hear that train a-comin'." "It's rollin' round the bend." And I walk out and the spotlight hits me, and it's just me with no band. And I do the first chorus of "Folsom" by myself. And I am terrified listening to the hum of the crowd backstage. Yeah. And then that first note comes out and I realize I know how to sing. And then a moment later, I realize I'm hitting the note. And then a moment after that, I realize this is amazing. And from there on in, it's easy. So there's your first step. Just open your mouth and let the song come out.

Scott, I just got to tell you, we could almost do another episode because I know we just started to scratch the surface here. I want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day traveling and obviously promoting the book and stopping in and having a conversation with us. I'll be putting all this in the show notes, everybody, where you can get the songs, where you get the book, all of that. And again, we here at The Vault Unlocked just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you. Super fun. I love your work and really great to spend some time with you and your listeners.

Thank you.