Transcript of Mother of Likely Murdered OpenAI Whistleblower Reveals All, Calls for Investigation of Sam Altman

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My son, I owe this to him.

Well, this is a remarkable story. We were connected by someone we both know. I had followed this casually in the media. I didn't know what to make of it. Your son died in November. You commissioned an examination by a forensic pathologist, independent forensic pathologist called Dr. Dinesh Rao. I have it right here, accompanied by photographs that you took. I don't think any honest person looking at this would conclude this was a suicide. There's an awful lot of evidence that it wasn't. I was actually shocked by it. I want to get into the details of what may have happened, but I'd like to start, if you don't mind, by hearing about your son. Who was he? How old was he? What did he do? What was he like?

Sure. Sushir was a prodigy. From birth, we knew he was gifted. For leaving, he studied his master's Bachelors in Computer Science from UC Berkeley, the top school. He had 4.0 GPA throughout. As soon as he graduated, he started working in OpenAI as a researcher, AI researcher. His first project was WebGPT, for which a fresh graduate, he took the lead role and that WebGPT turned out into be ChatGPT, an application. This was a publication of four people. One of them is Shushir. Following this, he worked at OpenAI for pre-training data. That means he was scooping up all the internet data, feeding to ChatGPT's AI model. Following this, he worked on- Which is the fuel that it runs on.

And it needs massive amounts of data in order to become what it is, right? That's the requirement.

Yes, it's an AI model. For the AI model, they need to be data-fed. This data is what everybody is saying is copyright data. That's what all the last suits are against. He was involved in fueling that data.

He was directly involved in that part of the business.

He knows inside out. Following that, he worked directly on the ChatGPT application team itself under John Schlemann. In this team, he was vital. His former boss, John, claims that his role was vital in ChatGPT team, and he did some tuning and optimization, made it very efficient. It's a significant contribution. But the irony is he was never acknowledged by OpenAI, and even after he left OpenAI, after his death, also no one has acknowledged him. Prior to joining OpenAI, he was so qualified. He was national champion in 2016 for Computing Olympia. It means he was the top programmer of 2016. Following that, he took a gap year. At 17, he said he doesn't need a degree. Right after 12, he said, I don't need a degree. I don't need to go college, he took up a job in Khora as software engineer. He was hired with $25,000 sign-on bonus and a pay equivalent to a master's or a bachelor's holder. He worked there for a year, and then he joined UC Berkeley after taking a gap year. It took a lot of effort on parents to persuade him to go back to college, for which he was grateful throughout.

In UC Berkeley, he represented UC Berkeley for ACM ICPC Inter College programming contest, the World Contest. He went to China along with his team. It was in 2017. 2018, he got $100,000 Award for a TSA competition. This is for Messenger screening algorithm which TSA has implemented today. He was shining all throughout his life. Prior to this, at the age of 11, he got 680 in a city. Then at 14, the paper he wrote, makes me believe he's a prodigy, that science paper is about quantum computing, optimizing a CPU. He talks about VLSA design that my friends claim they studied in their master's in Electronics and Communications. All these things make me believe he's a prodigy, and he's demonstrated he had exceptional abilities.

It sounds like he did. It It sounds like from reading about it that he ran into trouble only when he began to question whether or not the data that was being fed to OpenAI was copyrighted.

He never raised the voice when he was within Company Act because he had concerns that management will not approve. He started to question all these when ChatGPT became profit-making. As long as it was nonprofit, it was okay. He explained in his publication on suchi. Net, what his views are and why he believes this is copyright violation. When he started after reinstatement of Sam Altman in 2023, November. November 21st was the day he got reinstated. I know it's so well because it was Sushis' birthday that day. He got reinstated, and after that, Sushis started thinking about the copyright violation, and he did discuss with me. It's very unethical, and he feels awful about it. I said, yes, it's unethical. I agree with you.

What's unethical is using copyrighted material, material owned by other people for your business, which- Artists' work will be lost.

They means of living will be impacted. Also, he did a research and he published how the Stack Overflow and then maybe Cora, a few other websites, their traffic is reducing. He made a publication in which he explains that the answer given by ChatGPT versus the answer given by Stack Overflow, how unscientific and inaccurate the answer is.

Interesting. When did he leave OpenAI?

He left in August.

Of 2024? Yes.

Third week of August.

So recently?

Very recently.

When did he write his now famous paper about what the management of OpenAI was doing with copyrighted material?

He, next day, he already had made up his mind prior leaving OpenAI. In fact, in July, he discussed with his UC Berkeley colleague that he wanted to do a startup and his friend expressed interest. His name is Tyler. And next day, after leaving OpenAI, he went on interview with Canadian news media. We didn't know anything about it. We just found out was based on his call logs. He spoke to someone for 40 minutes after his passing, we called him and found out he was doing this, and it was next day after his last day at work.

Who did he speak to?

I'll get back to you. But he spoke to a reporter. Canadian news media. That sued OpenAI. Canadian news media. Canadian news media that sued OpenAI.

Interesting.

On October 23rd, his interview was published in New York Times, where he makes a very a very open statement, and he calls OpenAI violates copyright data.

On October 23rd, he was quoted in the New York Times saying that OpenAI violates copyright law. Yes. Is stealing other people's material.

Yeah.

Okay. What day did he die? I'm sorry. What day did he die?

22nd, November. But we found a body on 26th, November.

So he He was quoted saying that OpenAI was committing crimes, and a month later, he was dead.

That's not just it. On November 18th, New York Times named my son as Custodian custodian witness. Custodian witness is very, very important. He had the documents against OpenAI. That was on 18th, 22nd. He just came back from vacation from LA and Catalina Island the same night. They have attacked him and killed him.

Tell us about what the New York Times wrote on November 18th. He had these documents. What were the documents?

We need to get the documents from New York Times. It's a sealed document. It's not open for public. But we need to become the estate administrator. My husband will be the estate administrator end of this month. Then we will go and acquire that data, what documents they were. At the moment, we don't have information.

But you know because you read it in the New York Times, that your son had given journalists papers that he says implicated OpenAI in crime.

Yes. Also on December second, Sushir had an interview planned with Associated press, Matt Oberen. On December second, Sushil did not attend. Third, they called on his phone. By then, we had his phone, my husband took a phone call, and he found out that Sushir wanted to take legal action against OpenAI. He wanted to give the witness. By then, this news was not out yet that Sushil was a custodian witness, but we got it. Then all we did was hurrying up the second autopsy, private autopsy moment. We heard that this was his initiative, and he didn't make it to do that.

To bottom line it, it sounds like your son, who's your only child, by the way, and I'm really sorry about that, your son was in a position to threat threaten, really threaten OpenAI?

Well, it's not. His intent was not to threaten. He just cared about people. He cared about humanity. He writes in his article in Newark Times as well as a publication. He believes the way the AI is currently without any regulation is a harm to humanity. He stood up for a cause and he lost his life for a cause. He's a martyr. Obviously, he's a martyr. And then he never hesitated. He put his life at risk.

The official cause of death is suicide. You're his mother. Clearly, you spoke to him a lot. Did you get any indication that he was depressed?

No, he just came back from vacation. He had a very active lifestyle. When we had his memorial service, many of his friends came and they gave the details of when they met him and how many times they met him after he left. He was visiting family. We were going out for dinner, lunch. He was fine. More than anything else, he had concrete career plans.

Yes. And interviews scheduled, and he had things on his to-do list. Did he ever suggest to you, say to you that he felt his life was threatened? Was he worried?

He had concrete plans. He wanted to do some work for humanity. That's the last day when we spoke. Last conversation with Sushir in person was that. He had a nonprofit in mind. And he didn't want to take the salary for his work. He said, Mom, I have enough resources. I don't even need to get paid. I want to serve humanity. He wanted to work in neuroscience and machine learning combination. Using that, I think I've seen on his desktop, one of the project for future of doctor visit. Since we haven't unlocked his email and laptop yet, we have to discover that. But we know. He discussed with me. It's a one-year plan. He said, Give me a one-year time. You'll know everything.

Because- Did he ever talk to you about Sam Altman?

We.

Did you ever talk to your son about Sam Altman?

No, we refused to. You refused to? We refused to talk to Sam Altman.

But did your son ever talk to you about Sam Altman? Did he ever say anything about Sam Altman?

Not to me, but to his friends a lot. When he was in Catalina Islands, he spoke a lot against him. He literally didn't like him. In fact, I've seen his chat log saying that he wanted to work with Annie Altman in her nonprofit work.

That would be Sam's sister who has accused him of sexual abuse? Yes. Really? He wrote that down?

Yes. He knew what personality Sam Altman had. His main concerns were the lies. The lies? Lies that Sam Altman used. The lies? Yeah. He was lying a lot. My son is very ethical and he couldn't stand it.

If we could go to the timeline around your son's death. He goes to Catalina Island with friends to backpack, to camp?

What was he doing? Backpacking, yes. November 16th to November 22nd. There were five guys who went, and my son was one of them. All these are his middle school and high school classmates. Some of them are his best buddies. We spoke to every one of them when they came back, and every gave an image like he is upbeat, he was very happy. He celebrated his 26th birthday on 21st November, the day before he died. What more do we need to give an account of his happy mood?

Well, exactly. At a certain age, you know people who've killed themselves. Typically, the suicide follows a morose period of isolation. The person sitting alone in his apartment drinking. He died the night he came back from a camping trip with his high school and college friends. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Abheratani, he came to his apartment with us. And the moment he inspected his apartment, he said he had fresh supplies ordered. He had so many packets unopen. Disturbed. It doesn't look suicidal at all.

The photographs that you took, which we'll get to in a minute, I just want to say this is not the first time I've been contacted by a family saying, Our child is It's a rule to suicide, but we think it was a murder. I mean, many people have claimed that. I've never seen anything like this before. I think, again, to any fair person suggests that he was murdered. But let's get to that. What do you know? He came back from Catalina If you don't mind telling us what you know about what happened then. He comes back that evening to San Francisco?

He came around 11:00. He texted me, his flight is taking off. That was on 22nd. Then 4:15 54, he texted saying that it's pouring in San Francisco. When he got off Uber, leasing off his manager, he has apparently seen Sushir coming off with big suitcase and other things. Then Suchitre said, Yes, I'm coming back from LA. That's somewhere between 1:00 to 2:00 PM that day. Then he spoke to dad at 7:15 PM. He was very happy. Then Balayji said, Shall we go to CES in Las Vegas in January. Because it was raining here, dad brought up the concept that weather will be great in January, and Suchitra said yes. And dad gave him a birthday gift.

Gave him a birthday gift.

Because 21st was his birthday. He said he'll send him cash, just a token of love, and Sushira accepted it.

Then that's the night he died.

That day he died.

His last That conversation with his father was what time, roughly?

That's the last conversation.

That was the last conversation.

I called the next day, 12:15 PM. Phone rang once, and it went to voicemail.

When did you learn that your son was dead?

That was on 26th. 25th, I went to his apartment, knocked on the door, no one opened. I called a dispatch. Unfortunately, it took a day of effort for us to get his apartment open. 25th, they went and they didn't even call me back. What happened? Apparently, they have gone and knocked on the door. They didn't bother to open the door. They just said, Okay, nobody's opening the door, and they went back. Security guard from the apartment complex says he saw the fire truck and the ambulance and the police, and they went back. 5:30, I waited, waited and waited. And 5:30 PM, when I called on Monday 25th, they said, Ma'am, unless you are here, we cannot open the door. Next morning, I went to Union City Police Station, that's where we live, and filed a missing person complaint. I waited for one, one and a half hours, but both the parents, me and my, when we started calling all the hospitals in San Francisco area to see if he may have had an accident, why he's not responding to us, what happened to him. Moment we found that he was not in any of the hospitals, we took a deep breath.

Okay, he's safe. But when we I went to his apartment, 1:00, I went to San Francisco, and the dispatch came at 1:09. Until 4:00, we were not told anything.

Then you got a call from the city?

No, that was not how it went. 109, two officers came, and they went with a leasing office manager, leasing manager, and I'm waiting outside. They didn't allow me inside the premises. I'm waiting outside the complex. Then 113, they have seen, apparently, that's what the report says. They've seen the body. Within 5, 10 minutes, they came out, and they told me, No, we didn't enter. We're waiting for two more officers. We have a security protocol. We cannot go inside. Around 2:00, two more officers came.

But they knew your son was dead and they lied to you?

They didn't tell at that moment. 2:00, they have a protocol. I don't blame them. 2:00, two officers came. They went inside. 20 minutes, they came back and said, We're waiting for two more officers. We have security protocol. We can't go inside. And they said, At 2:00, they said, Ma'am, you can go back home. We'll inform you in 5 to 6 hours. I said, I'm not going anywhere. They told me it's going to take some time for the next two officers to come. I said, Let it be. Please give me the phone number. I'll contact them and find out if there's any way we can expedite it. My son's safety is in question. I cannot wait any longer. Then at 3:20, I saw a big white van coming, and my heart sank seriously.

They knew as they were speaking to you that your son was dead, but didn't tell you?

They didn't tell.

That's disgusting. That's inhuman. Sorry.

It is. They're asking me to go home. How I knew my son was dead is looking at the white van. At that moment, I knew ambulance didn't come. Even then, I was optimistic, okay, maybe ambulance wasn't available. They sent another van. When I just saw a structure that came out, I went and spoke to the officers who are the medical examiners. They said, We have a dead person in the apartment.

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We drink it, we recommend it. I'm so sorry. That is really I didn't know things like that happened. That is awful.

It's a gated community. He had a gun with him to protect himself. What more can be expected in America than this? It's a very reputed apartment complex. Not that it's cheap or something. They have four or five units, four or five buildings, I mean to say.

Did the officers at the scene give you any indication of how they thought your son died?

At 4:00, they came to the leasing office, and then medical examiner said he shot himself, he killed himself. He killed himself with a suicide. At that moment, I raised to them, Look, my son went into New York Times. He's a whistleblower, and that doesn't look suicide to me. They just didn't want to listen. He bought a gun. It belongs to him. Nobody went into the complex. Nobody came out. He was all by himself, and it's a suicide. How long it took, can you believe it? 40 minutes to investigate. 40 minutes to determine the cause of death. And at 4:00, they give me the keys for the apartment and they say, You can collect the body tomorrow. Right from that moment, I see fall play. Proper formalities were not followed. And the next day, they released the body within 24 hours without doing the complete autopsy. They removed the bullet, they did a CT scan, they should return the body to us. Then we just checked with the funeral home and we discussed with them. Then they also said, looks like it doesn't seem normal. There's something very unusual here. You should do a second private autopsy.

The funeral home suggested that. Yes.

Even we were thinking. Both of us were also thinking. Funeral home also suggested. We were shattered, obviously. We were completely shattered. We just didn't know what's going on. Seeing our son like that, and they said, His eyes are gone with a gun wound. Don't see his face. We couldn't see him.

But the fact that the funeral home, which, of course, sees dead bodies every day, said to you, this doesn't look right, it doesn't look like a suicide, we recommend that you get a second autopsy, a real autopsy.

That's amazing. Actually, the way they didn't look at the body, they didn't look at any evidence, but the way the information was given to us and the way the procedures and policies need to be followed and norms were not followed according to them. Before they received the body itself, they said this doesn't look normal. We addressed the concern that it could be some foul play here. And we knew From the very moment we heard the news, we know it's not suicide. Next day in the death news, and I'm shattered, was calling police, calling medical examiner, coroner's office, homicide unit. We've done everything we can.

Tell me what you know about what's been proven from the CCTV, from the surveillance footage about your son's last moments. Is there any evidence anyone came in or out of the apartment?

No. Actually, even when our attorney concluded it's a suicide, even at that moment, I mentioned to the attorney, Look, there are three entrances to this building. One of them is gated. It has CCTV. Other two entrances don't have CCTV. And why are we ignoring that nobody came in, nobody went out? Also, what we just recently discovered is his packages are missing. His roommate, or no, his neighbor in the apartment complex, he mentioned that they have a shade package room. They have a shade bin or a basket or something. He's seen Sushis's package until December 31st. He reached out to me through Twitter on the X platform. When I tweeted, he found out I'm Sushis's mom, and he said, Have you picked up such as packages? I don't see that after January first. Those packages are missing. When we talked to that neighbor, he said it's very common that packages get lost. In September, they received a notification that if you see so-and-so manned and so man, then let us know. That tells us a lot about the security. There's a compromise of key, there's a compromise of entrance. All of these need to be investigated, obviously, when there is a murder.

Let's get to the reason that I am anxious to do this interview, which is this report that you commissioned Dr. Dinesh Rao, and it contains his analysis of the condition of your son's body based on an autopsy, I believe, and it critically contains seven crime scene photographs that you took in your son's apartment. Is that correct?

That's right. There are seven evidences that were very critical, which has not been picked up by the authorities. Within 40 minutes, they concluded they haven't even picked up critical things like a bag with blood that has my son's saliva in it. They haven't picked it up. How could they miss Hayes' rolling all over from the wig.

Right. That's what I want to get to. The two things that jump out to me, the first thing that jumps out, and it's very obvious from the photographs that you took, is that there's blood all over the apartment. The official explanation is that your son shot him, and I'm sorry to… I know this is hard, but I think it's important to go through this. The official explanation is your son shot himself once in the head and the bullet enter the brainstem and extinguish life immediately.

Can I say something then? Yes. It didn't his brains time at all. It didn't even touch his brain and the angle is downwards.

Yes. I'm saying the official explanation is he shot himself once in the head, he died. Yes. But these photographs show that that's not at all what happened because there's blood all over the apartment. There's blood on the door, on the floor, in the bathroom. There's blood everywhere. That right there, just employing common sense, tells you that the person The person from whom that blood came, your son, presumably, did not have a fatal brain injury, at least when he was bleeding. I mean, this is something was going on in the apartment, right? Yes. The second thing that jumps out is that there is a toughed of hair that's not hair. It's from a wig.

It's from a wig. And there's a clip scene.

Okay, so tell us what that is for people who don't know. It's part of a clip-in wig.

There's some plastic band or something that fits the wig on the head, we can see that coming out behind the door.

Yes.

That's obvious evidence that no crime scene investigators or police can miss. They just ignored everything that showed murder, and they picked up everything that showed a cover of That's what they said.

But how could they ignore? Your son did not. I mean, he was a 26-year-old man with short hair from pictures. He's not wearing a wig, correct?

No, he is not. These hairs are not his. This investigator's analysis looked at the hair from the autopsy pictures, that my son's hair and this hair, this is not his hair.

The portion of the wig, the clip-in wig, has blood on it? Yes. Okay. As a non-phrensic investigator myself, I look at that and I'm saying, That's a where did this come from? There's blood all over the apartment. Right there, I would say, Maybe it's a suicide, but you're going to have to tell me how because what is that?

It's not a suicide. It's a homicide, obviously. We have enough reasons to believe that one is coming from the private autopsy. It's not a suicidal angle at all.

You said that, and let me let you explain. It's not a suicidal angle. You had the crime scene, your son's body was taken away. It was evaluated in some way by the authorities. They say this is a suicide. You have a real autopsy done by Professor Raouh, and he says, What about the bullet angle? Will you explain that?

The autopsy It was done by Dr. Joseph Cohen. He says two things. One of them is the bullet angle is going downward, about 30 to 45 degrees downward. It's been shot here. It's missed the brain. Second thing is there's a head injury on the left side of the head. In fact, I spoke to Medical Examiner's office, Executive Director. I told him there's a head injury, there's a sign of struggle in the bathroom. He just declared that I'm the decision-making authority of State of California, I decide the cause of death. When I brought up, we'll have federal investigation, there was a momentary setback in his voice on the phone, but still they're holding on to suicide.

Dr. Cohen's autopsy, and this is Grizzly, I'm sorry, but shows, demonstrates, proves that the bullet was fired at what angle?

It's downward angle that someone cannot shoot themselves.

In other words, if this were a suicide, your son would have had to have held the gun to his forehead coming down. From the top.

He was made to sit. If you look at this same thing, the victim was sitting down. He was made to sit. Someone standing, he shot him down. In fact, Balayji and I, my husband and I, are going to create a virtual reality. Once we get all the evidence, we'll create a virtual reality video and present it to court what exactly happened to him at that moment.

You also said, if I heard you correctly, that he had another head injury not caused by a bullet. Yes. Can you tell us about that?

Actually, it appeared to us that from his fallen toothpick and blood in the sink and all that, it appeared around 10-ish because 1010 is his last browser history on the desktop. He was brushing his teeth before going to bed. He was attacked from behind on the head. That's where this fallen dust bin, this fallen tooth, and his ear bud has fallen in two different directions because of the head impact. We believe after that, he was either electrocuted or he was paralyzed from the head injury, and then they just held him up, made him sit, and shot him. But also, we know that we are waiting for further report, but that may not be the cause of death. The gunshot wound is not the cause of death. Probably they might have suffocated him. We don't have any details of that cruelty, but we're waiting for further reports from CT scan.

Why do you believe the gunshot was not the cause of death?

Because it's not touched the brain. It only makes him unconscious.

The autopsy show that the bullet did not It's not a conscious brain.

Yes. Also, since I called an apartment on 23rd at 12:15 PM, it rang once and it went to voicemail. That makes me believe the killers were still there in the apartment. Again, we need to verify all that. We can do something called geo-fencing. Through that, we can figure out who was there, who was visiting that complex, and all that information. That's exactly why we need thorough investigation.

You certainly do. You said your son's last browser record is from 10:00 PM-ish?

10:00, 10:00 PM.

What was he looking at? Do you know?

I think he was looking at a black cat or something because last time in Sujira and I met, a cat was going in front of me, and then I told him it's a superstition. Then he was looking at neuroscience topics. He logged into a website for the startup or something like that. He logged into a website and he was doing some research.

He wasn't looking up, How do I kill myself?

No, that's the first thing that we look for, actually.

Of course. Of course. Of course. I mean, killing yourself is a profound decision. People, there are signs.

Can I say something? It doesn't add up. If he's so brave to go to news media, to be the witness. He's so courageous. How does someone so courageous do a coverly act? It doesn't add up at all.

What doesn't add up is there's blood all over the apartment, and there's a piece of a wig on the ground covered in blood. That's not his wig. You don't need to be a detective to imagine that if someone's going to commit a murder, he might be wearing a wig as he goes into the apartment. That right there, considering your son didn't wear a wig as a 26-year-old male.

Hays were not his. That's also another thing. What weren't his? Those hairs were not his hair. We have the picture of his hair. His hair is fallen down in the bathroom sink. That is from the hair in the wig. His original hair have been found on the floor. They might have strangled him by his hair or something. His hair has fallen down. That hair versus the big hair are different.

Did anybody hear anything in the apartment? Did anyone hear the gunshot? No. No one heard anything?

No one heard anything.

Two entrances into the complex have no surveillance cameras? Yes. Wow. It makes the hair on your arms go up.

Yeah, it's a lot.

Yeah. Again, I've been involved in many stories like this, more than five, and I've never seen one like this.

This is brutal.

It's unbelievable. What's unbelievable is it's so obviously not a clean-cut story. I mean, you wouldn't walk into an apartment with blood splattered everywhere and see a man on the floor with a gun in his and say, Oh, was it suicide? Well, how did the blood get in the bathroom? He shot himself in the head. That doesn't even make sense.

It was a cover up, right? Well, it sounds like- So they picked up what they want to pick up. We don't know if they have been instructed to do this beforehand.

Okay, let's thank for describing all that, and I'm sorry, I know it's awful. But tell me how the authorities responded, if you don't mind.

Authorities have been very indifferent. In fact, we hired an attorney, a senior attorney. He He wrote to Chief of Police, City Administrator, Chief Medical Examiner, Executive Director of Medical Examiner. He wrote very clearly a couple of points. One of them is he was not suicidal. Before making a decision of suicide, they need to take his mental state into account. He has happy pictures. They shared the pictures. He just came back and he said, Talk to four of his friends who accompanied him. He also said the autopsy information in that letter. The autopsy report says that this is the angle of gunshot. It doesn't look suicide at all. A doctor described this as atypical, abnormal, worrisome angle. We wrote all of this to them. We just had them to reconsider it and do the investigation. Chief of police, apparently, has agreed to do investigation, but medical examiner stopped it. He said, No, this is suicide. And the attorney came back and said, What they said was, Oh, yeah, the angle looks different. So what? It's a suicide.

A man shooting himself in the forehead from a downward angle. Yeah, okay. I'm not even sure if that's possible, but- We are going to demonstrate that.

We just ordered a dummy gun. We're going to create a dummy of his size, and we're going to demonstrate using the VR or using the video. We're going to demonstrate to people it's not possible.

Who is the medical examiner who refuses to reconsider a pretty obviously silly explanation for this?

His name is It's David Hellman.

David Hellman is the San Francisco Medical Examiner.

But he has been covered by David Sewell, who's the Executive Director. Every time we call, it's him. Even the news report is given by David Sewell. There's no And who is David Sewell? He's the Executive Director of Medical Examiner's office. He is the one who's holding on to suicide. Despite of seeing all the evidences, he wants to declare it. Only suicide, nothing else.

What does he make of the bloody wig and the blood splattered in the bathroom when your son was not found in the bathroom? How does he explain that?

He didn't want to listen to it. He didn't want to pay attention to any of the things that we were saying. And you know the worst struggle here is The first attorney, he was reluctant to help us. When medical examiner's office said suicide, he didn't want to fight because they had been threatened, obviously. Then we hired a second attorney. He got a crime scene investigator. Our attorney said, We'll give you explanation of every bloodmark. And he came back this Monday and he gave explanation. And none of that explanation he gave corroborate to what happened in the apartment based on what we see. That means even the crime scene investigator was bought. He gave inaccurate results. If both the attorneys are like this, then where do we go? We definitely need some serious help here from the authorities.

Okay, so the authorities would begin with the mayor of San Francisco.

Mayor of San Francisco. Actually, Sam Altman is on the transition committee for the new governor. He's a friend of- The new mayor.

The new mayor. Sam Altman is a friend of the new mayor. Yes. Okay, so let's move up. Then you go to the governor of California, Kevin Newsom.

We're trying to. We are first trying to meet the district attorney of San Francisco, DA of San Francisco. We probably are going to an appointment sometime next week or later this week.

It's mid-January. Your son was killed in November.

We are not been getting any appointment. We wrote to everyone. We wrote to Rob Bonta, we wrote to DA. We didn't get any appointment from any of them. Five weeks were wasted by our first attorney. He does nothing. He just keep prolonging, prolonging, prolonging. He wasted five weeks. Then we hired a second attorney. It's been almost two weeks since we hired, But now, we just didn't trust any of these people. We got a report from someone else, and now we're coming to media because these people, neither the authorities, nor the attorneys are helping us.

This needs to go to the Department of Justice, I think, in the Trump administration?

I did write.

You did?

Yeah. We haven't heard yet because it's only been a few days. We did write to them.

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Everybody is suppressed. No one has come in our favor. In fact, even our attorney's tomb we hired have been made to tell us it's a suicide to us. Every day from every different angle, there is a push for us that it's a suicide. But we parents, we know and we want to fight for justice for our beloved son.

But I don't understand on what basis. So your son had just come back that day from hanging out with his buddies, okay? So which is like a happy thing. It's- No evidence that he was suicidal whatsoever, and tons of forensic evidence that he was murdered. So on what grounds are they saying it's very likely he killed himself?

Okay, that's because of the cover up, remember? There was a gun near him. He owned a gun, and they put a shell casing and four bullets near it. They made it look like it. There are both the evidences for the medical examiner to pick up. He picked up the one that looked suicidal. He ignored the one that looks like homicide. That's what it is.

Now to Sam Altman, what contact with Sam Altman have you had since your son died?

We contacted HR for 401k Plan Details. Until then, no one from OpenAI ever contacted us. They gave When the PR report that they're supporting the family, how? Suchir had obviously put parents in his emergency contact, right? They got the death news on December 13th. They made no attempt to contact us. When we reached out to HR, Sam Altman said he wants to talk to us. By then we already knew Suchir was... His presence or his living would have been a threat to AI industry in general. I wouldn't want to name one company, but eventually it's going to expose everything. We didn't want to talk Sam Altman. Then they said, We provide employee assistance program. Though he was a former employee, we said, We have medical insurance, we don't need it. Then they pushed us saying, We want to get you on a Zoom call ASAP to go over his talk options. Then our response to that is, Why are you in a hurry? We are not. We've lost our son. We're grieving. Money is not important to us. Please talk to a probate attorney. And we had a probate attorney talk to the HR.

This is our only- They wanted to talk about his stock options?

Yeah, that's why they wanted to get us on a Zoom call.

Do you believe, you can't know, I guess, but do you think that Sam Altman was involved in your son's death?

We don't know. We need to investigate it. We can't say anything at this time. But one thing I know for sure is if he was deposed, there are a few organizations who could have been impacted for that matter, there are a lot of AI companies which violate copyright law. We don't know what OpenAI wanted to hide when my son deposed. What was the wrongdoing that he would have brought up? Not just the copyright law. That's exactly we need FBI to investigate thoroughly. Was there any criminal activity? Was there any illegal activity? We don't know, right? Why? Why would they silence him? What would he have spoken? If it's just the copyright law, Do you think these big organizations like Microsoft and OpenAI care? No, they don't care about it because they have money and power. What else was involved in the deposition in the testimony that took my son's life? We need thorough investigation.

So you haven't seen those documents. You don't know.

Okay. There are two things here. One is the custodial documentation, right? The second thing is his own statement. His own statement, we heard from few former employees of OpenAI. There There are certain wrongdoings there.

What?

We can't say something that someone shared, right? I would want to keep it more just an overview, that's something like that. That is the reason they're hiding. You know what? If we come and tell openly, our life could be at risk, but we are taking the risk and coming out and telling publicly that's the reason our son was killed because he knew something that was going on. Keeping in mind, he He was feeding the data, right? Pre-training data.

To be clear, you think this is not simply about OpenAI stealing copyrighted material? There's more than that.

More than that. 100% sure. Because copyright data, obviously, my friends and I were all talking. These companies, they get many lawsuits like this, right? Sure. Do they really care about it? No.

What is the thing they do care about? What crimes do you think they would kill someone over?

Stealing some data that could cause a violation, possibly. They might be stealing some data.

From the US government, from other government?

Yeah, something like that. Maybe government is involved. We don't know. We're speculating.

It's just a remarkable story. Do you think that we will find out? How will the rest of us find out what your son testified to?

That's exactly why we call out to President Trump to do a thorough investigation. We want a FBI director to be assigned to investigate this. This is not just about copyright. This is about a lot of other things that are going on that could cause harm to society, potentially not just my son's death. There's something harmful that need to be evaluated and thoroughly investigated. That's exactly why they're covering up a suicide. Why do you think medical examiners, the executive director would come and tell? Why do you think nobody gives us appointment? Because there's some foul play and there's strong power behind a medical examiner.

You're saying that AI itself poses a threat to the world and that your son understood this?

Yes, he understood it, but he was keeping in mind that's one aspect. The other aspect is he knew everything OpenAI does. Yes. He might have actually felt overwhelmed by what activity he got involved in. We know that he spoke to a copyright attorney, which is again a cover up, we suspect. What Matthew Butterick told us on November 29th is, Yes, I met with your son. He's a very brave man. So she told us what OpenAI did to him. He didn't say anything beyond that. That day, he said, I live in LA. I come to San Francisco quite a few times, and I'm going to talk to you next time when I come. Then he's been silenced. He's not telling us anything. We had a Ratauni call. Even then, apparently, he did not say. If we depose him, he's going to spill out everything. Also, we suspect he's Sam Altman's friend, and he's played against our son and has indirect involvement. We don't know. Wow.

There was a moment where Sam Altman left his own company or seemed to leave his own company for a few days, you may remember this. What was that? Do you know?

Sam Altman was fired. This was because of AI safety issues. The board of directors for OpenAI from the nonprofit side, especially one called Ilyas Sastrow, He and others fired Sam Altman. Then all the 700 employees, including my son, wrote a letter or a momentum saying that if they don't reinclude Sam Altman, they're all going to resign. They brought Sam Altman. They fired Ilya, who's the AI safety expert. To be honest, few days after my son's death was announced, December 15th, Ilya was seen in a presentation in one of the conferences He had two security guards with firearms around him. He was so scared of his life. We are seeing a mafia behind all these things, honestly speaking.

What were the safety issues that that caused Sam Altman to get fired, do you think?

We don't know if it's a safety issue or whatever. We don't have the details of it. Even my son doesn't know any of these things. In fact, he supported Sam Altman's reinstatement that time. Yes, you said that. Yeah. A lot of AI safety people have been leaving OpenAI. If you notice their CTO, Meera, I don't know her last name. Their CTO also resigned. Many people have been leaving OpenAI, not just the researchers.

Why?

That's exactly I want to know why. There's so many people to leave, obviously. There is something that they're not happy about. The only person who spoke against them was my son. Rest of them just quietly walked away. My son, he couldn't take it. He felt like he need to stand up and tell the truth so some harm can be prevented. We need to investigate all this seriously.

Did your son ever mention... During that period when Sam Alvin left, that very brief period, there was a report in the news media that said within OpenAI, AI itself was being worshiped like a God? Did he ever mention anything about that?

No, he didn't. So she didn't mention.

Do you have any sense of what these harms are? I mean, clearly, people are afraid of what AI can do, not just by eliminating jobs, which is enough to worry about, but there are other things that people are very concerned about. Do you know what they are?

They are in my son's publication. Some of them he's covered. One of them is less traffic means the loss of jobs. That was one of his concerns. I'm proud of him for bringing that up. He gave the graph, graphical representation of how the traffic is reduced to stack, overflow, and future website, that are a means of living for people. That will be taken away. That's his concern. Also the accuracy As I mentioned earlier in the interview, the accuracy of data. Also, he says something called the modulation index or something, 0.5 versus 1.0. He tells in his article, if it's 0.5, the data in and data out are not the same. If it's one data in and data out are same, most companies, including OpenAI, use 0.5. That means the data accuracy is not maintained. That is his biggest concern. He being like an architect inside, he knows in and out of ChatGPT.

What happens next?

If my son were alive, he was planning to bring a competition to OpenAI. He was working on a medical startup. I even checked with him, How do you think it's a competition? Not directly. Mohamed said indirect competition, he said. He would have been a great humanitarian. He would have done a lot of causes for humanity with the concerns he had. We lost a great human being, not just my son, who would have made a big difference to the world. Now, what we want is we want justice. We want death sentence to the one who killed my son, as well as the imprisonment for people who are behind it. We don't know who it is, but we want to know, and we want to know what my son stood against and take actions, at least in honor of him, at least do something that he stood for and let his soul be at peace.

What happened to the piece of wig found on the floor, soaked in blood in your son's apartment? Where is it?

It's still there. We didn't pick it up because we want police to go and look at it.

It's in the apartment right now?

Nobody came to do the investigation. We have the apartment keys. Nobody came to do the investigation. We have been requesting police.

It's sitting there right now.

Yeah, still there. We didn't pick up anything because it's crime scene evidence.

But no one's investigating it as a crime scene. No.

In fact, Our attorney said up to December 31st, these people will retain the apartment. In fact, we are paying the rent and we are maintaining the apartment as is because we want someone to come and investigate all these things with so much evidence. If medical examiner still calls it suicide. This is an ethical question, the regulatory question.

So it's just sitting on the floor right now?

Yes, it's the same place. We didn't touch any of that.

This is a really crazy story?

It is. Reality, right? It's not a story. It's how gruesome it is. And you see all the bloodshot. There was a fight and my son has been tortured. He didn't die immediately. And where can we go with? Where is peace of mind for us? We just don't have any peace of mind. Our life is not normal at all. The only thing that could make a difference after the loss of our son is get him justice, punish the wrongdoers, protect not AI.

Did you know that California was this corrupt?

Yeah, we know it's very corrupt. That's exactly why we're requesting FBI thorough investigation. We did speak to an agent, I think last Friday. We're waiting for that agent to get someone assigned, if special agent or something. We also know that there's a transition period in the government. Some may be transferred, some may be leaving. We just thought, Okay, let's wait. Meanwhile, we We did all the groundwork that we needed to do. We have the evidence. We are here in the media. We're telling the media now we want a new oncoming federal government to intervene because Newsom, we know. Trump himself makes a lot of statements against Newsom. We wrote to Rokhana.

You talked to Rokhana, congressman from Silicon Valley.

We wrote to him. No response from him. No response from Rokhana? Yes. Many people tried to reach out to him. Not one. Many people. No response from him because they're all inside, right? All this tech lobbying.

Okay. You know what? I'm going to text Rokhana right now. Please do. I'm going to. I'm going to send him this right here. Roe Kana has not responded to you? Yes. Okay.

I filled in a form in his website. I gave my phone number. I gave all the details on his website. Many people whom we know have tried to contact Roe Kana. They took my email address and they said, Roe Kana will reach. It's been two weeks. He hasn't reached us. Initially, we thought it's holidays time, so he's a little busy, but even it's 14th of January today. No response yet.

Okay. I just texted him right now and I just sent him pictures of the relevant information, and I hope that you'll try again. I mean, Rokhana is the Silicon Valley member of Congress.

We don't believe in state government at all. We know how corrupt it is, especially in San Francisco Bay area. It's very, very correct. We don't believe in the system. Unless we change the governor, we won't believe anything will happen here. We need to go to federal. We also found out that he's protected under the Whistleblower Act as well. You found out what? I'm sorry. Whistleblower. There's a federal aspect as well. It's not just the state. Yeah, it's a whistleblower. Yes. There are two things here. One is wrongful death, one is a whistleblower. The whistleblower comes in the federal because the lawsuit was filed in New York and he was a custodian witness. We have a backing from federal government involvement. If it's just the state, corrupt state would fight against it. Since it is federal, they can overtake the federal aspect. We are writing to federal Trade Commission now, today or tomorrow, and we want them to a quiet investigation of the case. We have a top attorney in whistleblowers that's helping us prove one or means contingency basis. We will work with him and bring the truth out.

I mean, your son was born in this country. You can't murder American citizens because they're standing in the way of your business. That is not allowed in this country. You can't do that.

Imagine we are immigrants here and we came here, we raised our son, we were so proud of him. We don't expect this to happen in this country, in America.

No, that's right.

We don't expect this to happen. Sense of security has been lost for me ever since.

Do you worry about your safety?

Potentially, now that we've gone so public, they may not target us. Yes. But there might be some threat in terms of accidents or something like that. Potentially, indirectly, they could harm us that they cannot be caught. We suspect like that. And I don't go out alone anywhere because I'm more vocal. So I don't go out alone for a walk or anywhere. I always take my husband along and we make sure if we go somewhere, we inform our friends where we are. We just keep letting people know. In fact, I don't want my family from India to visit me because it's a big risk for them.

Has the New York Times called you to do this story?

We called New York Times two days after we got his body and we told I think his name was... I don't remember his name. We told him many times. They haven't even interviewed. They ignored it completely. He said he'll get back. He will say he'll let us know what he can do. He doesn't even take our call.

What about the television networks? Cnn, NBC, Fox? Is anyone?

Nobody. Abc just relate the Vigil The vandalite vigil that we had for Sushira Milpitas. 1.5 minutes, they relate of the vigil information, ABC News. Local. Now that we just received this evidence today morning. We probably might reach out to some of the news media. Now that we have this evidence, news media will talk to us. We want to take it much forward.

Yeah, I don't. For the third time, I just want to say this again. I don't think anybody, any honest person could look at this and say, Oh, yeah, that's a suicide. I mean, I just, you know.

We were hesitant because they can try to manipulate the evidence or something like that. We were very hesitant. They can even attack the apartment, remove everything, clean up. You know, like something's crazy things. They might cause a fire and then let the water sprinklers go on and it will destroy the evidence or something. That's why we were very quiet. We didn't go to media until we got this authoritative report. It's very scary.

Well, I'm grateful that you're making as much noise about this as you are, and you're as aggressive as you are. Thank you for doing that.

And I'm going to- Whistleblowers' lives matter. Oh, I agree. We cannot lose. Honestly, I was talking to my son. I expressed concerns about his whistleblower activity, but what I was thinking was he won't get another job because he's going against employer. He kept assuring me he has his own startup plans, but taking his life is something that I never expected. This is not the first time. Two whistleblowers from Boeing were founded last year. One of them exactly same way. Another one died in the hospital. They drugged him. This is America.

Yeah. Thank you for this.

We need to protect them. Most whistleblowers, we were talking to the whistleblower attorneys, most of them They don't even know there is support. There's not enough awareness. Going forward, we want to create awareness and help others. Then not just that. There should be some regulation protection. I'm sure we are going to talk to New York Times at some point of time and said, How did you put his life at risk? If he was a custodian witness, why didn't you give him protection? Why was he left alone? What protection did he have for speaking truth? Costing his life?

Well, I think most Americans, like you, would not even consider the possibility you'd be murdered over something like this. The penalty, you would assume, would be having trouble getting another job, but getting killed in your apartment. And your son, I know I've asked you, so I want to make totally clear, he never mentioned being followed or feeling threatened or anything like that.

Actually, I do have some observation. After a New York Times article came, he didn't want us to visit. He would come home and avoid me going there, and he would also come during the weekday, not the weekend. I want to investigate why. Was he already under some kind that someone was following him or something? I was about to demand him an answer, but he's no more. With an adults, and how much can we push him each time we visit? I just made sure he's eating well and he's healthy and he has strong plans, he has hobbies, all of those things. But this information, why are you coming in the weekdays? I didn't get a chance to push him. He was going to come for Thanksgiving, and that's when I would question him, I thought. He wasn't even alive till then. We didn't have enough time.

Thank you for telling us this story.

Thank you for hosting us. We want Americans to know what happened. And why has the mean covered by news media? Why no one is talking about it? Why they want to repeat like parrots what medical examiner is lobbying, why they don't want to stand up for truth? Why? Are we so sold out for these tech lobbying? Is there any regulation on the amount of money they can spend for lobbying? It's indirect bribe, right? So they're all sold out. Can't we do anything? I'm an American citizen, too. This is totally disappointing. A reporter came home, he took the pictures, he wrote the article, and when I mentioned OpenAI's name, there was so much fear in him. He was scared. The tech companies that are controlling and they're turning out to be mafia, controlling the government, controlling the news media, what more harm do we want from them? Do we public? Do we, public, do we need to live in safety or do we need to live in fear? What are we doing? Why are we quiet now? Now that an innocent life is gone, we're seeing so much going on. Why are we quiet? Why can't we start Justice for Suchhir Why can't we do rallies?

Why can't we go on a non-stopable movement until we get the justice, until we get the punishment? I'm calling out to all Americans to stand with me. We want to do rallies all over America. We want to do vigil all over America. We want to enforce FBI investigation and punish the culprit.

I hope this helps. Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson's show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to Tuckerson. Com to see everything that we have made, the complete library, tuckercarlson. Com.