Transcript of Hacker Kim Dotcom Issues Dark Warning on Surveillance, Electronic Voting Machines, and Nuclear War

Kim Dotcom, thank you very much. Thank you very much for doing this. How much privacy do we have as citizens of New Zealand or the United States?

Not much because the government is surveilling everybody.

Yeah. How are they doing that?

They have massive surveillance programs that are designed to catch every phone call, video call, everything you do.

Yeah. So what is the purpose of that? Why are they surveilling their own populations?

Because they can create a profile of their citizens and then use the data to basically put the people in categories and influence them as well. So it's not just surveillance, it's also mind-altering in terms of elections or something. Ja.

Okay, so you believe the government is tailoring its propaganda to the population based on profiles that they've assembled, like Facebook does for advertising?

Ja. So if they want, for example, support for war, they can use this system to Uh, we convince people. Yeah.

Interesting. How do you, how do you get out of it? How do you find privacy in a panopticon like this?

Don't be connected to the internet. It's the only way. Yeah.

Don't be, but if you're not connected to the internet, then you can't communicate with people except in your living room.

It's true, but it's a high price to pay if you're online. You have to know that everything you do is being watched and listened to.

Yeah. Why is there no way out? Why is there no phone or laptop or tablet that allows me to communicate with you without being spied on?

Mm. Because the US government has a lot of fingers in the technology. So every website that you visit, every tool that you use, every hardware that you use is controlled by the US government bots.

Yeah. So this is not a new phenomenon. You were indicted, I think, in 2011, 2012, a long time ago. Is that what year was it?

In 2012.

Yeah, 2012. So 14 years ago, what you were doing, you're basically allowing people to upload large files privately on the internet. I think that's what you were doing. Yeah. And that was so threatening that the US government tried to put you in prison.

No, what was really threatening was I gave money to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. So the US government saw me as a person of interest because of that. And everything that followed is because of my support for the truth.

Yeah. For Julian Assange.

Yeah. And what did Julian came out with the video Collateral Murder? Maybe you remember that. Uh, I was touched by it and, uh, gave a lot of money to WikiLeaks. Yeah.

And then what happened after you did that?

I was charged with copyright infringement. So what my users uploaded to my website, Uh, they said I'm responsible for that.

Yeah. Oh, but wouldn't Facebook be responsible for every criminal who uses a Meta product? Wouldn't Google be responsible for any criminal who uses their search engine?

Why?

I mean, this is a new— I've never heard of this principle before.

Yeah, the, the, the, the, the big difference is they did not give money to WikiLeaks or to So what, what, what did they charge you with and what was the penalty? They charged me with RICO acts. So they not only say I'm a criminal because I allowed people to use my websites for infringement, they said I planned it. With other people. Stupid.

And what were the penalties for this?

Oh, they want to put me in jail for 186 years.

I'm sorry to laugh. 186 years for copyright infringement.

Oh, that's what you get if you support Julian Assange.

Well, I do support Julian Assange, so I hope that's not coming for me. So whatever happened to the charges?

Oh, they want to extradite me from New Zealand to the United States.

Yeah. Are they still trying to do that?

Yeah. Even after my stroke, they are still trying to do that.

Yeah. Are you worried that they'll be able to?

Oh, they would want to. I have no doubt. But I don't know if they can because I'm not the same person anymore after my stroke. So if they really want to go ahead, they are up for a big challenge.

What would happen if you were to use your money to build a phone that was truly private that the US government could not listen to?

I did something like that when I was still the creator of Mega. So I had an encrypted communication tool, but now who's running Mega is no longer trustworthy. Yeah.

Hmm. But why hasn't anyone done that? I mean, it seems like the one thing we could use to regain our freedom is a communications, a simple communications device that's actually private.

In the US, you can't. So if you put out an encrypted device, then the government will just send you a letter saying you have to give us a backdoor or go to jail. You know, this is legally possible in the US. The government can just send you a letter to say, give me Viktor.

And what if you say no?

They put you in jail.

So it is illegal in the United States to communicate privately?

It's illegal, yeah. No, they say you have freedom of speech, but you don't. And you know, it's a joke.

Does any country have freedom of speech?

Mm-hmm. You have a certain degree of freedom of speech, but it's not like it used to be, you know, where your privacy is protected. Under the UN Charter, we are all protected. You know, the US just doesn't care. And because the US, we know this from Edward Snowden, is spying on everybody, everyone else is, you know.

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Thanks.

It's, uh, I'm not sure most Americans understand any of this or any communications Are any of these apps, Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, or any of them actually secure? No. Not even Signal?

No, no, no, no, not at all. Signal is the worst.

What? How is Signal the worst?

Because everyone is using it and the US government is laughing because they have a big door.

Yeah, but I mean, people with— I happen to know— with real secrets use Signal, and they're convinced that no one can hear or read them on Signal, but they're, they're wrong. You're sure of that?

Yeah, so Signal is not secure. There's nothing I would recommend other than not using any communication tools at all.

Really? So if you wanted to, I don't know, organize resistance to tyranny, you couldn't?

No, you can't.

Have you given up?

No, it's true. You can't because all the tools are being watched.

Yeah. How will AI change this picture?

AI is very dangerous because it will get access to the US database for this kind of data mining. So the AI will know everything about everybody. Yeah.

Huh. And there's no way to stop that?

Don't have AI. Don't have internet. It's the only way.

Why is the US planning on building so many data centers?

It's already building huge data centers because it takes, it collects about 10 petabytes of data a day. So it's a lot. Yeah. All communications, everything.

So why is the United States building so many more data centers than China is? Do you know?

Mm-hmm. You can't say that because you're being told that. You know, China is not far behind the US when it comes to AI. You're only being told that. It's propaganda. You know, Obama made it legal to propagandize US citizens. So you can't believe anything they say.

Are American media outlets part of that effort to propagandize the public?

Ja, of course. You know, whoever controls them controls the public. So any access to the media today is controlled.

Ja. So in the US, there's been a rise of independent media. Some of them have big platforms, reach a lot of people, and they're, well, having conversations like this. They're against the program. How long can that last, do you think?

It's okay that there's independent media, and you are one of them. So it's very good to have you, you know, but there will be a crackdown sooner or later on everybody that is still not controlled.

Ja. And what can people do to fight back against that crackdown?

Not much. You see, the power of the government is very strong, so there's not much you can do about it.

You don't seem very hopeful. Are you?

It's a reality. What can I tell you? It's the truth.

Are there any free countries or what is the freest country do you think right now where people can say what they think with the most latitude?

I think Switzerland is very good. Switzerland. Because they have direct democracy, not a representative democracy. So the people decide. Is people power. I bring that in to New Zealand this election. So with the Freedom Party, we will have direct democracy available here.

Do you think that direct democracy will spread to other countries?

I think it's the only way because Politicians are not honest people. They only look for how to make a lot of money, you know? So direct democracy is the answer. Yeah.

Do you think that the war in Iran will change America's place in the world? What does the world look like in 10 years?

So the US is struggling to remain number one, you know, the unipolar system that the US had for many decades. They are fighting for it, but the US is too much debt. They're going down. There's nothing that can prevent that. So I think in the next few years we will see a lot of negative things in the world because of that.

Yeah. What kind of negative things?

So the West is highly dependent on the US not going under. You know, the war in Ukraine will be lost. The war in Iran will be lost. USA will go into a big depression because of the debt. I think financially the world is heading into turmoil. Yeah.

How is the war in Ukraine resolved? What does that look like?

On— it looks like now on the battlefield, you know, so Russia will win against Ukraine. And I don't think there will be a settlement.

Do you believe that NATO will continue to attack Russia?

Mm-hmm. I think the attacks on Russia will continue for many years. I don't see the US and the Europe giving up. So I think what Russia has to prepare for is a bigger war. Yeah.

A bigger war with the— directly with the United States and Europe?

With Europe, yeah.

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You're going to love it. Ever get the feeling that your phone is listening to you? You mention something in a conversation, and a few hours later, you get an ad for that very thing. Most people assume their phone is spying on their conversations, and And it may be, but most of the time, the truth is even worse than that. All of the apparently free services you've enjoyed, you've actually paid for, but not with money. You've paid for these with your privacy. 5 billion consumers are in our identity graph. 5 billion.

How many people are on Earth?

7 billion. 2 billion to go. Every search, every message, every purchase, every location becomes part of a digital dossier bought and sold and analyzed by companies you have never heard of. You know nothing about them. They know everything about you, and we can prove that. By the end of this series, you will be upset because you will understand how the surveillance economy works and what you can do to protect your privacy. The World Is Watching You, exclusively on TuckerCarlson.com. You think that this will evolve or devolve into a direct conflict between NATO and Russia, where Russia is hitting Europe, Europe is hitting Russia?

Yeah, I think so.

And who wins?

Russia, of course, because Europe has no, uh, armies. Uh, you know, NATO is a toothless tiger.

Yeah. Why would the Western powers, why would NATO want a war with Russia? I've never understood that.

The alternative is the US loses. And if the US loses, it will go down. You know, the West has invested a lot in the US. So all the debt is owned by debtors. Europe is a big debtor to the United States. So if the US stock markets, for example, go down, uh, all the European companies that are listed in the US are also going down. So we, we are talking about a loss of maybe trillions, you know. It's not something that the best, uh, can do. They want to prevent the US from going under.

I think I understand that and I'd like to see the US not go under also, but I think they're accelerating the destruction of the United States. This is having the opposite effect. If you wanted to wreck the US and bring the empire to its knees in the most humiliating, painful, expensive way, this is what you would do.

Yeah, but the debt has now reached levels that are unsustainable. So it's just a matter of time. You know, to run the US government costs $20 billion a day. It's impossible.

It's impossible. That's right. What, what is the end of the Iran War? What does that look like?

Iran will win because the US has no weapons and no army to invade. You know, you wonder where all the military money went because the, the US has the biggest budget for the military, yet they can't, uh, invade. So, uh, I think Iran will win here.

And then what happens to the United States? Does the US get out of the Middle East?

Yeah, yeah.

What happens to American politics? Like, what direction does it go, do you think, from your perspective?

I think the only way to save America is for the people to vote directly, not through politicians. The only way I think to save America is a direct Democracy. Yeah.

Do you think electronic voting machines are honest and reflect the will of the people, the votes that go into them?

I don't trust them. Yeah, I don't trust them because they are able to be manipulated. Yeah.

You say that as fact. You know for certain that electronic voting machines can be manipulated?

Yeah, they can.

So why does the US still have them? Hmm.

Waiting for the right time to use them, I think.

Yes. So, huh. Well, that's kind of grim. Do you see a risk of a nuclear exchange?— in Ukraine?

Very likely, because if the US goes down, you know what is left? 39 trillion of debt can never be paid back. So it may take the rest of the world down with it.

And so how do you get to nuclear weapons from there? Who uses nuclear weapons, do you think?

I think the US first against Iran and then against the world. Primarily Russia and China. But, you know, I saw this coming. This is the reason why I am in New Zealand. Because it's in the middle of nowhere.

It is the middle of nowhere. When did you see this coming?

I don't know. I don't know. Could be many years. It could be tomorrow. I don't know.

But you saw this years ago. You believed this was going to happen. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, I did. I brought my family to safety. Whatever is safe.

Are you safe?

I don't know. Maybe if I'm extradited to the US, I will die in the nuclear holocaust. I think.

Oh, so you're certain that's coming?

Ja.

Do you think it's likely that Israel uses nuclear weapons?

Possible. Why does Israel have nuclear weapons in the first place? Because they spied on the US for the technology, and then they started their own nuclear program. Actually, Everybody in the world knows that they have nuclear weapons, yet they go to war against Iraq, against Iran, trying to prevent them from having nuclear weapons. You know, the first country that should give up nuclear weapons is Israel. Yeah.

I don't think they're going to.

No, of course not.

Can, can you explain, you said at the outset that, um, you were indicted and now they're trying to extradite you because you supported Julian Assange.

Yeah.

Julian Assange famously printed, uh, American secret documents and videos on WikiLeaks on the internet. Um, but the US government seemed very focused on killing him. Why was he such a threat? Mm.

Because he was telling the truth and he got in the way of the plans of the US deep state, you know. So anything that he has in terms of support was attacked. Yeah.

Why, why do you think Donald Trump after spending 10 years saying he wouldn't start a regime change war with Iran, did in February start a regime change war with Iran.

Donald Trump is a big liar. So anything he says, he just said to become president. I wouldn't believe a word he says. He's the biggest liar in the world.

What do you think his goal is? What's his agenda? Why is he doing this?

Oh, I think he wants to become more than the president of the United States. He wants to make history. You know, I think a nuclear war with him is very likely because of his narcissism and his character. Floritz.

Yeah, but starting a nuclear war would eliminate everybody. I mean, there would be no history after that.

Yeah, but he is 80 years old, so he is looking for, uh, the exit.

And you think nuclear war is the exit?

Yeah.

Is there anything that can be done to stop that?

Not much. A revolt, maybe a revolution in the United States, you know, not have a fool like Trump be president.

Do you think the deep state agrees with Trump on the question of using nuclear weapons?

So you need understand one thing: the deep state, uh, has a big budget for keeping Russia and China, uh, surveilled. So, uh, if they have no longer the enemy of Russia and China. The US deep state loses 40% of the budget, so they need to keep Russia and China the eternal enemy to make money. Yes. Yeah.

So, so really a nuclear war is not in anybody's interest.

No. Of course not.

No, of course not. Do you think that, um, Europe, where you're from, uh, you're obviously German, does Europe have a future as European?

Hmm. If they make peace with Russia, yes. If they, uh, cut ties with the US, yes. If, uh, the US keeps them as a vassal state, they have no chance to survive. Yeah.

Do you believe Putin is secure in his job?

Putin has over 80% approval rating in Russia. So I think he's pretty safe. Yeah. He's pretty safe.

And last question, how have you been able to keep from being extradited when New Zealand is a small country without a meaningful military? The United States wants to extradite you. How have you been able to convince the authorities in Auckland not to send you to the United States?

Uh, not convince, uh, the authorities. Uh, it's a process. I'm fighting extradition wherever I can. So my lawyers are fighting it and using the process to fight it because that's all I can do.

Yeah. Well, rooting for you and for the world. Kim Dotcom, thank you. I know you don't do a lot of interviews, and so I'm grateful you did this one. And thanks.

No problem, Tucker. Great to see you.

Thank you.