Transcript of Giants, Pyramids, the CIA’s Psychic Spies and The Ancient Civilizations More Advanced Than Ours

Ajay, thank you for doing this.

Thanks for happening.

You've become huge for a good reason. You want to hear my macro explanation for your success? Oh, I- Honesty is always the first... That's always an honesty, good BS filter. But you expose the deepest truth of all, I think, which is there's a lot of stuff we don't know and we pretend to know. Things are not, especially the past, is not settled at all. There's just a lot that we don't understand. I don't understand why we won't admit we don't understand it. Whole parts of science, archeology, especially, but many others, medicine, just won't admit that we don't know. What is that?

I think people don't like to admit when they're wrong, would be my guess. I certainly don't. I try to because I'm wrong a lot.

I am, too.

But we admit it. There's something about the scientific community, the so-called mainstream, that just doesn't want to be wrong.

Yes.

Maybe there's a financial aspect to it, grants and so forth. Maybe there's ego involved. But I think it's nothing more than that. It's just a human frailty.

It turns you into a liar, though.

It does.

You have to make the decision, is my pride more important or the truth more important? And you have to choose truth.

I don't think that's common. If you need a grant from the government, you need to put in that grant application what's going to get you paid, what's going to keep your research going, even if it's not exactly what you believe or even what the evidence shows. What I don't understand is the extreme hostility against alternate archeology.

Yeah, of course, I agree, and I'm hostile to the hostility. But like you, I don't actually understand what is that. Why is it the default position the media that anyone who asks questions about obvious mysteries is maligned. What is that?

I don't know. I think we should, as a species, be interested in pursuing things we don't know and be open to any theory, any theory.

Of course.

Isaac Newton was wrong about so many things, but he was right for a good amount of while. Exactly. He was wrong about the philosopher Stone, but he got some stuff right. But when someone Graham Hancock, whose work I admire, I don't agree with all of it, but I admire his tenacity and persistence. To call him a racist was like- You're calling him a racist now? That was when Ancient Apocalypse Season 1 came out, he became, I forget it was in a UK paper, it was the most dangerous show on television because he was promoting white supremacy because these ancient civilizations had to be white, which he never says. He's to a woman of color. He never says any of that. But that became the narrative that he's a racist. Then they tried to get that show pulled.

What?

Yes.

Oh, gosh. I interviewed him once. I thought it was the most interesting thing I've ever heard. That's amazing. But why would you do that? Why would you make up a slur like that to destroy someone who's studying some events that happened, presumably thousands of years ago, the past, who's an archeologist. Why is he a threat to you?

I'm not really sure.

That's sinister, though, if you think about it.

It is. Someone like Zahia Was certainly infamous in Egyptology. There was one time, I don't remember when it happened, where Graham was going to debate Zai about their theories. Zai refused. He walked out and said, I don't even want to hear what you have to say.

Okay, so for people who, and I don't want to confuse anyone watching, so let's just start at the beginning. We're talking about Egyptology in the specific case, the pyramids, the tombs. What do we know about the pyramids? What do we actually know rather than what we've been told? But what can we be certain of?

Be certain of. Be certain of. I don't think we can be certain of anything. We can't be certain of when they were built. Some of them we can, but the pyramids are strange because it seems like the ones that were built earlier are more perfect than the later pyramids, which suggests that maybe... Certainly, I subscribe to the theory that the Egyptians did not build like Khufu. I think they found that. I think they found that and then tried to replicate it later on and couldn't quite get it right.

Why don't we know when they were built?

You can't carbon date it.

But what about the mummies we found inside all the pyramids?

I've never found a mummy in a pyramid. What? No, we've never found a mummy in a pyramid.

I thought the mummies were from the pyramids.

No, they're not. No mummies have been found in a pyramid. Maybe they were placed in certain structures later on, like Valley of the Kings and so forth. But like the great pyramid of Giza, no mummy has been found there. There's a giant box in the king's chamber that's said to be a sarcophagus, but it's not the right shape or size for a mummy.

So So there are no organic objects found in the Great Pyramid, for example, that would suggest when it was built?

No organics, no. But there are strange things about the pyramid, like chemical residue at certain openings, shafts that suggest maybe the pyramid had other uses that are really not acceptable to mainstream.

Of the objects that have been found in the pyramids in the tombs, are there any that we can explain?

Any that we can explain? I I don't think so. There's a lot of objects that we are not allowed to see. Still? Still, sure. I mean, look at the Smithsonian, I think has a billion artifacts. We're not allowed to see hardly any of those. They just swoop in and just take those. I don't think there's any unexplainable objects.

Can you petition the Smithsonian to see artifacts?

Sure, you can. But you're not going to be able to do that. Smithsonian is a weird organization. Throughout the history of the organization, we have records of them receiving bones of giants and artifacts that are hard to explain. We have records of them receiving it, but then they lose them or they deny ever having them. The Smithsonian, which is a government institution, is exempt from a lot of law. Not too long ago, a law was passed that if any museums are in possession of tribal Native American artifacts, specifically funeral artifacts, they're to be returned to the tribes. Bones, yeah. Bones, anything. Anything except the Smithsonian. They don't have to do that.

May I ask? Okay, so a couple of things, but I don't want this to slip by. You're referring to the claim that the Nephalim, as described in Genesis 6, this race of giant people who are hybrid between the spirit world and the human world, and they're the reason that God sent the flood. This is all described in Genesis. They were giants. They were great men of old, I think is the phrase. The claim from some people is that's actually real, and the fossil record proves it's real because giant human bones have been found through the years and that some or a lot of them wind up in the Smithsonian where their existence was suppressed.

Yes.

You're saying there's actually Is there actually documentary evidence that that may be true?

Yes, there's documentary evidence that the Smithsonian has received bones and large coffins from not that long ago. We're talking maybe the '50s or '60s. And as recently as the '80s, people have been trying to get access to this information, but they're stonewalled or they just don't have it. And there was one case where the Smithsonian said, Yes, we did receive the bones, but we don't know where they are.

Well, if you received human bones that were larger than any human bones ever described in literature ever, other than Genesis 6. Kind of a big story, right? Yeah.

And you see that story repeated over and over again, especially in America. For hundreds of years. Even native tribes have stories about giants, having wars with giants, driving giants across the country to... The famous one is the Love Lock Cave, which is in California. These are the red-headed giants. And red hair has been found in that cave and giant sandals and clothing that is enormous. Actually? Yes. On display. But it's always an explanation. It's symbolic, it's allegory or whatever it is. But that's not what the native people say. They say that this was a cannibalistic tribe that they cornered in a cave and sealed it and set them on fire, essentially. And if you go to that cave, there is residue of the fire. There is one tribal leader who wore strands of red hair in her clothing for years. Good luck her up. She's pretty famous.

This is pre-Columbus's landing?

That That incident? Maybe, maybe not. It would be hard to say.

It's just hard to see why red-headed people would be on the North American continent.

I mean, talking about like Neanderthal DNA. Yeah.

I mean, why would they be red-headed? None of the people we believe lived on this continent before the Europeans arrived were red-headed. They were all dark-haired.

True. But if it's giants, then this is DNA that's a little different than ours.

So maybe that's what they were. Has this ever been tested by anybody?

No.

Christmas feels like just yesterday, but in fact, it's already time to think about lent. Lent. Lent is a great chance to step back, examine our lives, and decide whether or not we're headed somewhere worth going. This lent, we strongly recommend the world's top number one prayer app. It's called Hallow. It's Lent prayer challenge starts February 18. It's called Pray 40, the Return. Transformation does not start with improvement. No, transformation starts with repentance, the courage to admit that you are lost and change direction. Pray 40 forces you to confront that, responsibility, forgiveness, and what it means to truly repent and live a life of meaning by following Jesus. Every day, enjoy a simple, deliberate prayer. No spectacle, no performance, just silence, honesty, and one small step toward renewal. This is not about fixing your life overnight. It's about beginning the journey home. Pray40, the return starts Wednesday, February 18th, and runs right through Easter. Download Hallow for free at hallow. Com/tucker. The New Year is here, but that does not mean you've got to overhaul your whole life, despite claims to the contrary, you don't have to take drastic measures. Make a few changes here and there, and you'll be a lot better off.

You can start with the snacks in your pantry. Now, products from standard American chip brands are, let's be honest, pretty repulsive, filled with chemicals that make you feel heavy and bloated. They don't even taste that good. They're not good for you. We recommend an upgrade with masa chips. Masa is the easiest way to eat clean without feeling like you're on a diet. The chips contain three ingredients. That's it. Organic corn, sea salt, 100% grass-fed beef towel, and that is it. No seed oils, no mystery chemicals, just food, actual food. They're amazing, and you feel great after. You don't feel weighed down. We particularly enjoyed the Cobonero flavor lately, but they're all great. You Want to give them a try? Visit masachips. Com, M-A-S-A, chips. Com/tucker. Use the code Tucker for 25% off your first order, or you can click the link in the video description, or you can scan the QR code claim this outstanding offer. If you don't feel like ordering online, you can buy them nationwide at your local Sprout Supermarket. Stop by and pick up a couple of bags before somebody else does. Most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy, disconnected from themselves.

But it does happen, and it happens slowly. You're working hard, you're showing up, and then your energy disappears by midday. Your focus is dull, your weight won't move. A lot of people are told that's just getting old. That's what it is. But that's not actually true. For many men and women, these are not personal affairs. They are signals tied to your metabolism, your hormones, and nutrient imbalances that go undetected for years. You don't even know you're deficient. And that's why we're happy to partner with Joy & Bloke's, a company that was built for people who were all done guessing and ready to figure out what exactly is going on. That starts with comprehensive lab work and a one-on-one consultation with a licensed clinician. An actual human being explains what's happening inside you and It builds a personalized plan which includes hormone optimization, peptide therapy, targeted supplements. So don't settle. Go to joyandblocks. Com/tucker. Use the code Tucker for 50% off your lab work and 20% off all supplements. That's joyandblocks. Com/tucker. Use the code tucker. 50% off labs, 20% off supplements. Joy & Blocks. Get your edge back. I guess this is the macro question, just to circle back to the first exchange.

Why would the US government have an interest, clearly they do, in suppressing this and waiving people off?

Well, I hate to say I don't know so many times, but I really don't. There's a famous story connected to Giants about G. E. Kincaid, who explored the Grand Canyon. This is the early 1900s, I think, like 1908, 1909. And his story ended up in the Arizona Gazette, where he was rolling down the Colorado River, and he finds these steps that go into a hole in the side of the canyon. He goes and he explores it, and he's mapping it. Inside, he finds basically the remains of an ancient city, artifacts, a giant statue that looks like Buddha, but not quite. Hieroglyphics that look Egyptian, but not quite. He comes out and he's putting together an expedition. When it's time to go back and explore floor, he never shows up. That story was in the papers. What bothers me about that one, it's one of the mysteries that I really wish I knew, is that you can find that opening in the Grand Canyon, and it's covered with an iron gate. Above that area of the canyon is a no-go zone. You cannot go there, you can't walk there. But some people have. Some people have.

You can see embedded into the top of the cliff there, iron hooks and equipment that would be used maybe to repel down the side of the cliff. But when you do go there, suddenly white planes will appear, and you can't fly over the Grand Canyon, but these white unmarked planes.

Can't fly over the Grand Canyon. No.

And black helicopters will appear, and you can't do that over the Grand Canyon. You can see this episode on my channel where I linked to the full video of these people going up there, and there are the helicopters, and there's the plane, and eventually, their park rangers or whatever, throw them off the property. That bothers me.

You think?

And nobody will tell us why.

I've never heard any of that before, but as a general matter, there's very clearly a coordinated long-standing effort by the US government, specifically US government, to bat away speculation about the past.

Yes.

To shut down any thinking about whether or not the things we're looking at could be supernatural in any way. They're all natural phenomenon. That's what we know. But anything that suggests supernatural is just ruthlessly put down.

I wouldn't see giants as supernatural. That's an animal. That's a creature. That's a mammal. That's a mammoth. I don't know why that is so dangerous.

I don't either. But that's the question, you see the truth in the reaction, I guess, is what I'm saying. Why do you care?

For how long the Clovis people were the first people in America? If you said that anyone was here before them, you were ridiculed. But We keep finding artifacts that are older and older and thousands of years older. Of course, nobody from the Pacific could have made it to the Americas that long ago. But that's been proven that tribes in East Ecuador on the Atlantic side, have DNA from Polynesian people. That goes back thousands of years. There has been contact of civilizations going back as far as we can remember.

Clearly, and we know that from sacred art, ancient art on five different continents, we see the same images, the Birdman, the Perse.

Yes.

I think you've done work on this, and it's like, what is the explanation for that? How could people living on separate continents before transatlantic communication come up with precisely the same images? Clearly, they're responding to something that they're all seeing, or they must be communicating. What is that? The Birdman, for example. This image, which is throughout Latin and North America, also Europe, also Africa, also the near east, also the far east. It's a sacred image carved on walls on pottery of a birdface man with wings. What is that? How they all think of Easter Island.

Easter Island is also very, very strange. The Birdman, I think, boy, I can get really woo-hoo with this. It could be a metaphor for a sky god.

It could be- Or an angel.

Or an angel.

Looks a lot like the angel is described in the Old Testament, just saying.

It does. There are plenty of passages in both Old and New Testament, and even in apocryphal works like Book of Enoch, were describing angels But describing them in a way that sound like the Birdman or sound almost like an alien entity. I think it was maybe the Book of Daniel describes a man who's glowing with topas. And Elijah was taken up to heaven. No one's allowed to mortially go to heaven, but he was taken and shown. Ezequiel talks all about visions of this futuristic city that he thought was going to be a new of Solomon, but it sounds like a city.

That's after he describes UFOs as wheels in the sky and all that.

But that shows up over and over again. Enoch is also taken up by Uriel and shown how the winds are made. He describes the heavens in ways that we were not supposed to know at that time. So there's something to it. Our religions have these. If the Vedic texts have very similar stories to these, where Arjuna goes up and sees the heavens and sees these flying vehicles that were called Vamana. That Vimana are described in such detail that they describe the technology of how they worked with rotating Mercury and engineering specifications in texts that are the thousand BC. Same with Buddhist, Hindu. It's all very similar stories.

Coming back to the pyramids. Yes. We don't know when they were built. We Because how could we know? But the Egyptian government and the archeological community is totally vested in telling us they know exactly when these were built. But in point of fact, we don't know and can't know. No mummies have been found in the pyramids. I didn't know that until you told me. But critically, from my perspective, I was like, how were they built? Do we know?

We don't really know. The conventional story is ramps and pulleys. But I think it's been mathematically shown that the amount of ramps and pulleys and equipment that you would need to build the pyramids would exceed the weight of the pyramids themselves. I mean, how long does the ramp have to be to go up? I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. No one can really explain it. The precision of how these stones were cut, we can only barely match it now. This is supposed to be Bronze Age. Yes. Done with bronze.

Soft metal.

Soft metal. Cutting the hardest granite in the world. It defies explanation, but that's the explanation. Why is the pyramid made of all these different materials? Why not just make it out of whatever sandstone you have lying around? Why bring in tour limestone? Why use rose granite in certain places?

I didn't know that.

Rose granite is very special because it's highly piezoelectric, meaning if you apply pressure to it, it creates voltage. That's one of the theories about the pyramid is the grand gallery leading up to the king's chamber is lined with rose granite. You don't see it anywhere else in the pyramid. That's highly conductive. The exterior of the pyramid was covered in tour limestone, which is an insulator. You have this structure that's almost designed like an electricity generator. Then you have the queen's chamber and some other shafts where there's chemical residue. Then when combined, create an enormous amount of hydrogen gas that then flows up through the Grand Gallery, expands, creates electricity with this rose granite, which ionizes the air. And then at the time, there were these slats, 24 slats of wood that would create sound, which would amplify. And what's strange is leading from the Grand Gallery into the King's chamber is a small hole. I forget what it was. Maybe it's three by six. It just happens to be the right size to be a wave guide for hydrogen atoms. Those flow then into the King's chamber, and this resonates at a frequency. I think it's 440 hertz.

It's like an F sharp. And then above the king's chamber is a stone called a relieving stone. And this is said to help relieve the pressure coming from the top of the pyramid. The thing is it doesn't connect to anything. It's perfectly flat on the bottom, but it's chipped on the top, almost as if someone was tuning, chipping away almost like a tuning fork to get the right frequency. Now, I'm not saying that's what it is. I'm just saying there's a lot of science there that makes you wonder, why go through all this trouble for a tomb? And there's no writing in there.

There's no writing in the Great Great?

No, there's no writing in there. There was some writing found in Expedition, I think it was in the '80s, where a robot was sent in. They found a door with copper handles, which are not supposed to be there. Then the other side of the door were, it looked like hieroglyphics, but they were not. That eventually was suppressed. And the explanation was, well, that was like the signature of the masons who built it or something like that. Well, let's have a look at that footage. Well, you can't really get a hold of that.

What?

There's all these strange things about the pyramid that we just can't go. We can't dig. I don't know if you saw my episode on the labyrinth at Huara, but that one really bothers me because that's an ancient legend that goes back to Herodotus. And even before, talked about this labyrinth in Huara. It's about 50 miles from Cairo. This labyrinth was enormous, 3,000 rooms. The priest said this was built by the ancients, the ancient kings. Oh, you mean the pharos? They said, No, the ones before from Zeptepi, which was the first time. Well, The labyrinth was talked about by Herodotus, by Pliny, by Strabo, by all these famous historians. It's there, it's there, it's there, it's bustling. Eventually, it just disappears from history and becomes a legend. Well, it gets rediscovered discovered at then the early, late 19th century.

During the colonial period.

Yes. But we're not allowed to dig or go down there. But recent technology like ground penetrating LiDAR from space, shows that there's stuff down there. The explorer who found it thought he found the foundation of the labyrinth. He was very excited about it. It turned out what he found was the roof. So the LiDAR is showing these giant spaces underneath the ground that are feet thick of heavy granite with all these spaces in between. In the center of this giant atrium is a 150-foot metallic ring that nobody can explain. And boy, I'd like permission to dig or see what's down there. And the tragedy is the water table is eroding all of that away. And geologists are saying, Look, we have to We have to preserve this because this is going to be gone in 100 years, 200 years. We can't stop. The answer is no. Can't dig. We're not going to prevent the water from eroding it. Leave it be.

The in curiosity about the monuments, ancient monuments in Egypt is pretty shocking. I mean, it was only when the French showed up, briefly, that we got the Rosetta Stone and figured out what hieroglyphics were, and it was only under the British that any of this was excavated. Howard Carter was British who found King Tut's tomb. It's like, and then the Brits leave after the Second World War, and it's like, not really a huge effort to find out anything else. What is that?

Is it Egyptian National Pride? I don't know. These things are more important than any nation.

Of course.

I don't know.

But do you think the Egyptian government, which is the second largest recipient of USAID, maybe that's related in some way, has actively covered up information about its monuments? Yes.

We have evidence of it.

Tell me.

I think it was called the Tomb of the Birds, was discovered not too long ago. I forgot the scientists. I wish I remembered his name. I recently did an episode on him. I just discovered this ancient tomb, these caverns in Egypt. I mean, it's sprawling and it's clearly manmade and there's artifacts and there's writing, all these kinds of things. He does the right thing and reports it to the authorities. Well, he's banned from the country. What? Yeah, he's thrown out. He's banned from the country, can no longer do any research. Zahuas says, Oh, he always knew that was there.

Who did you refer to as Zahuas?

Zahuas, once again. He was the His title was something like the Supreme Leader of the Council of Egyptian Antiquities, some crazy title. He's still running interference. He's supposedly retired, but still runs Interference. And there's a video of him repelling down into the caves Just exploring them, saying, Look at what I've discovered.

What do you think the motive is there?

Some of that is ego. I don't know the deeper political motives. I really don't know. Whether it's Egypt or our government, I don't know. But it bothers me.

What do you think, since we don't know anything, the basic questions, if this were we were writing a police report, we'd have to leave every line blank because we just don't know. When was it built? Who built it? How did they build it? Unknown, unknown, unknown. Since you know a great deal about this topic, hypothesize for a minute, what do you think this is?

I think the clearest evidence comes from maybe Robert Shox's work, John Anthony West, and certainly Randall Carlson, at the Erosion patterns at the base of the Sphynx. You've heard about this? Yes. Which clearly shows- Water. Water. And a lot of it. A lot of water moving at high speed for a long time, which would indicate a great flood. I think all these stories go back to the one, the story, which is the story of the Great Flood that probably connects to the end of the younger dryas, whether that's the Greenland impact theory or a solar event or whatever it is, something happened that caused worldwide floods and eroded that Sphynx, which means it was there 13,500 years ago or older.

These would be the floods that the Old Testament says were sent to eliminate the Nephalim. Correct.

Or there's another story of Utna Pishdom. I don't know if you know him. He's from Gilgamesh. His story goes like this. One One of the gods, Enki, who you may know as an Ananaki God, Enki tells Utna Pishdom, A flood is coming to reset mankind. I want you to build a boat. Here are the specifications. Take your family on the boat, take the animals on the boat, The flood's come. He's saved. He releases a dove and a raven. He finds land. He lands on a mountain. He offers a sacrifice, and he's granted immortality with God. That story sounds awfully familiar.

It does indeed. It's in Gilgamesh. Tell me again, where is this story?

That's in Gilgamesh.

That's in Gilgamesh? How did I miss that?

It's because it's a small part of it. Gilgamesh is a heroic epic. This is a side story. But it's interesting that it's telling the story of Noah. It's right down to the dove and the raven.

That's wild.

The only thing different is I think they're reversed, and I think the dove comes back with the olive branch or something in Noah.

Is there physical evidence around the world of a great Yes, all over the place.

Carlson's work is fascinating about the erosion patterns all across Africa that show... If you look at it from high in the sky, it looks like these just waves across the landscape. But these waves are 30 feet high. So this is three-story buildings indicating an immense amount of water. Millions and millions of gallons of water per second just rushing across the landscape. And we see that across Africa, a desert.

What about in the continent of the United States?

Not as much. I could be wrong about that because the ice sheets would have come from the North American continent. How they get to Africa, I'm not exactly sure. But we certainly have evidence of the glaciers moving and retreating very quickly in the United States. I mean, that's how Long Island was made other parts.

Of course. I mean, the whole country was sculpted by them not that long ago. Maine was covered them 11,000 years ago. It's like yesterday. The pyramids were there.

They were there.

Yeah.

I mean, Gobekli Tepi is another thing that we can't Gobekli Tepi is pre-flood. This is a pre-diluvian structure. I'm not supposed to have- Where is it? In Turkey. That's where all the good stuff is in Turkey. Tell us what that is. Gobekli Tepi is An ancient site, it's about 13,000 years old. It could be wrong on the date, but I'm pretty close. It's pillars arranged that align with astrological formations that align with the seasons. They're carved with intricate designs, animals, writing, all kinds of stuff. We're not supposed to have... We're supposed to be a hunter-gatherers with spears and Buffalo at this point, not building these immense structures. What's really strange about Gobekli Tepi- That's not hunter-gatherer behavior. No, it is not. That's very sophisticated behavior. It appears that it was buried intentionally. I can't explain why, but maybe it was someone knew something was coming and we need to protect this site. But that's Very strange. That's not even the oldest structure we found. The Carantepe is even older than Quebec. So how?

Well, 2026 is likely to be the year that some companies will find patriotism. They'll discover it. During the Biden years, corporate America thought, Hating our country was the thing to do, so they did it. Now, in a new era. They are coming back to reality. It's not real, though. It's a trick. They don't mean it at all. Black Rifle means it, and they've been doing it since day one. They're not just discovering patriotism. They were founded on the premise. As this country celebrates 250 years of existence, Black Rifle is brewing bold American roasted beans built for people who believe in the values that made America great. So kick off 2026 with Roast Made for Patriots, not Spectators. For the new year, Black Rifle is launching cold brew coffee cans in just black and vanilla. Powerful, smooth, and made in America. Want something even more explosive? Try Grape X or Tiger Strike. Their new zero sugar energy drinks with 200 milligrams of caffeine. That's about half the output of a nuclear power plant. But it's clean. Energy for Americans who mean business. Visit blackrifle. Com/tucker Use the code Tucker for 30% off or find Black Rifle at Walmart, Target, Kroger, wherever great products are sold.

Blackriffle coffee, veteran founded, America roasted. It's America.

. Well, the first thing I think you just have to admit to yourself is the descriptions of the societies that created these are just completely false. This is not hunter-gatherer, primitive agrarian. Whatever they're telling you people had for civilizations 13,000 years ago is not true. Because if you're If you're cutting stone with that level of precision, barely achievable now, we don't understand your technology very well, right?

Certainly not, because look at Stonehenge, which came thousands of years later. It's an amazing place, but it's stones in a circle. Yeah, now they're aligned perfectly and all of that. It's certainly a wonder of the world. But if you look at Stonehenge compared to Gobekli Tepi, it's Stonehenge looks... It's almost like kids made this with clay. Gobekli is a work of art. It's unbelievable.

Petra in Jordan.

Yes.

It's miles down a wadi, down a box canyon, and totally inhospitable. You get to the end of the box canyon, and there's this most evolved, intricate series of buildings carved into the cliff sides. There's not a stone mason on planet Earth right now who could do that. That's right. Period. It's like, What's that? Who did that? They're like, Oh, well, our ancestor did it. How did they do that? Was it sandpaper or something? Slaves? No, that's not true.

No, that's not how it happened.

As you push forward a little bit on this stuff, you get to the question of technology. What was the technology that built all this stuff? It wasn't Bronze Hand tools. No.

They will say that it was... They poured water or sand over the stone and used some type of to grind it away. They did it with abrasives. With abrasives. But there's no evidence of that. These stones are polished. They're immaculate. Some of the stones inside the structures are polished so well that they're like mirrors. Abrasives can't do that.

I mean, I've seen them, but I was lulled to sleep by the lies that it's just incredible. It's like, how many man hours would that take? About a billion. This didn't happen that way. Is there any hint as to what the technology was that these civilizations possessed?

Only legends. There are legends of acoustic levitation that are found in a lot of different cultures. What's the acoustic levitation? Specifically, Buddhist. There's even a British scientist who has allegedly filmed this, where Buddhist would sing and play instruments at a certain frequency that would cause objects to levitate. That's part of the legend of how these megaliths were built was some type of sound waves allowed them to lift these objects and place them perfectly into place.

What's a megalith?

A giant stone.

A giant stone. There are giant stones around the world that are so large. Again, there's no modern stone cutting that produces stones that big.

There is not.

There's nothing even. Go to the New York Public Library or whatever granite building you think is impressive, and it's nothing compared to these stones.

You can pick up the mortar between those bricks, and it's slip-shod compared to the things that were made thousands of years ago.

I'm just saying the same thing over and over, but how could you not look at that and ask questions?

Why is Atlantis such a taboo subject with science? Because I think it goes back to the same thing we're talking about.

What is Atlantis? What do we know about it? I mean, Atlantis is a byword for conspiracy theory, but what actually is it?

We first learned about Atlantis from Plato, who talked about it in his dialogs.

Was he a conspiracy theorist, do you think?

Yes, I think so. I think so. People call him a whack job. Plato described in The dialogs for Plato, the dialogs just... He plays characters, is what I just call that. In, I think it's Creteus, he talks about hearing the story from Solon, who was like his great uncle, who heard story from an Egyptian priest about this ancient land beyond the arms of Hercules, which people think is probably the rock of Jibraltar. It's a large continent, larger than India. It's populated by advanced people. There's a cataclysm, and it goes underwater. He describes concentric rings and waterways and all this technology, if you want to call it that. What's interesting about the land is that a lot of people don't talk about this is in Creteus 2, which is Plato's telling of it, he's writing about Atlantis, and he stops mid-sentence. And that's the end of it. There's no more. There's no more writing about Atlantis. So that's the earliest story we have of it. And there are strange structures around the world that could indicate maybe Atlantis. The eye of the Sahara is a very interesting structure. I don't think that's it. It's also called the reshot structure.

I don't know if you've seen this. No. It's in Western Africa. If you look at it, it's concentric rings.

Is it underwater? No.

It's a concentric rings, and it looks like it fits the description. Now, someone like Randall Carlin, who's a paleohydrologist, which I learned was a thing, says it's not. I tend to believe him because it's built more like a dome, and it's been above water for millions of years. It's probably not it, but it's worth looking at But there are places like Bimini Road, which are very hard to explain. That's in the Bahamas. It's long. These are right angles that are submerged underwater. There's something that looks like a city buried under Cuba that's definitely been there for 20,000 years. In the water? Underwater. The Yana Guti Monument off of Japan, we've got these giant- That's an amazing thing. These are all right angles. In shallow water.

Yes, in shallow water. It's like an underwater temple off Japan in 12 feet of water or something.

You can dive it. Yeah. But if you start talking about these things, you're a kook.

Well, it's on video and you can watch it. The official position, and correct me, please, if I'm wrong, but The official position of the Japanese government is rock formations.

Yes, rock. That's it. Rock formation. It's natural. No. No.

No. It's this elaborate, non-natural, non-random building.

I'll give you one right angle. I'll let you have one right angle. I won't let you have two. I can't.

Well, there are a lot.

But there's a lot.

This was discovered pretty recently by like, Fishermen or something. This was. Wow, it's just absolutely amazing. Okay, so here's what we've established. We've established that our view of prehistory is completely just wrong because the physical remains of these civilizations prove our theories wrong. It's It couldn't happen. We know that world governments, not simply ours, but others, Japanese in this case, seem to be very committed to stopping questions about this, halting curiosity, shaming people, maybe worse. Is it fair to say that there were civilizations in some ways as advanced as ours tens of thousands of years ago?

I can't make that leap. I'd like to, but I can't make that leap because I feel like there would be evidence of that. I think this is where Graham Hancock gets criticized unfairly because he's never said that there's been Atlanteans with flying ships or anything like that. All he said is, We may have been more advanced than we've been led to believe, and it deserves some more explanation.

Well, that's obviously true. I mean, it's not a linear progression. The history that I learned, always interested in history, is that you had this flowering civilization in the West, China's different story. But in the West, centered at Athens and then Rome, and then fell in the fifth century, and you had this thing called the Dark Ages, where we stopped building aqueducts and steam baths, and then it reemerged during the Renaissance. But basically, it was like a linear progression from the caves to the moonshot. Just like technology building on itself, human civilization becoming ever more complex. But it was in a straight line. That's just clearly not true.

No, and certainly not in Egypt, where we have basically nothing, and then suddenly we have and astronomy and all and mathematics. Everybody knows the Pythagorean theorem. Everybody knows that. Pythagore has learned that in Egypt. He's credit with that, but that's Egyptian mathematics.

The Alexandria Library.

That's correct. Yes. Which leads us back to Aristotle, which is back to Plato.

Just to be clear, the current occupants of Egypt, the Egyptians, are not, I don't think, related to the ancient Egyptians. Is that fair to say?

I think they They are. They are? I think, genetically, certainly. They are. Okay.

I don't know why I thought that. I think so. Maybe I'm thinking of Greece. Okay. But civilization can certainly go backward, much farther backward than medieval Europe went from Rome. Certainly. We've got a new partner. It's a company called Cowboy Colostrum. It's a brand that is serious about actual health. The product is designed to work with your body, not against your body. It is a pure and simple product, all natural. Unlike other brands, Cowboy Colostrum is never diluted. It always comes directly from American grass-fed cows. There's no filler, there's no junk. It's all good. It tastes good, believe it or not. Before you reach for more pills for every problem that pills can't solve, we recommend you give this product, Cowboy Clawstrom, a try. It's got everything your body needs to heal and thrive. It's like the original superfood loaded with nutrients, antibodies, proteins, help build a strong immune system, stronger hair, skin, and nails. I threw my wig away and right back to my natural hair after using this product. You just take a scoop of it every morning in your beverage, coffee or a smoothie, and you will feel the difference every time.

For a limited time, people who listen to our show get 25% off the entire order. Go to cowboyclawstrum. Com, use the code Tucker at checkout. 25% off when you use that code, Tucker@cowboycollostrum. Com. Remember, you mentioned you heard it here first. The pyramids have been not that explored, as noted, but ground-penetrating radar has been applied recently to the Great Pyramid. I think from an airplane, but maybe that's wrong.

And satellite. Satellite?

Okay. The The deadline for one day was, Holy Smokes, massive chambers discovered under Great Pyramid of Giza. What is that? Is that real?

I'm skeptical of it. I'm hopeful, but I'm skeptical. That Italian group has not been peer reviewed as of yet. I think they're seeking it. It's one of those click bait stories where they... When you actually see the images, it's really just colored types. But then when it lands in the news, it's these pillars with spirals and all this magical stuff. That's not what I see in the data, but maybe it is there. We know that the Great Pyramid has strange properties. We know there is space down there. There's space all underneath the plateau.

We know that.

We know that for sure.

Are these natural caverns?

No, I don't think so. There's been legends about the chambers under the Sphynx that go back a long time. If you want to get very woo- woo about it, there's been psychics who've explored that. Someone like Edgar Casey is a famous psychic who said, where the Hall of Records is stored, which is interesting because that connects back to the labyrinth as well, which some people think could be the actual Hall of Records. But I'll tell you a very strange story about Dorothy Eady if you have a moment.

I do have a moment, and I love strange stories.

Dorothy Eady was... She's born early 1900s in England. She's a troubled child. She's unhappy all the time. She's taken to the British Museum when she's three or four years old, and they go to the Egyptian section. She suddenly lights up, and she runs over to the mummy of, I think it's Ramsey's and she says, I know him, and they think she's a wacky kid. She's still despondent. She gets a book from her dad about ancient Egypt, and she's going through it, and she says she recognizes all these places, Temple of Seti, and Abydos, all these things. She starts studying at the British Museum, and for some reason, she takes the hieroglyphics very, very quickly, and ancient languages very, very quickly. She claims that she's a reincarnated Egyptian priestess that worked and lived in Abydos, thousands of you, during the IVth dynasty, something like that. She eventually goes over to Egypt, and she shows up, and she says, I'm a reincarnated Egyptian priestess. I was like, Of course you are. She said, I can prove it. They take her to these tombs or underground chambers and they say, All right, show us around. And she says, Let's go.

And she says, This is where the gardens were. This is where the fountain was. This is where this was. She's so good at this that the Egyptian authorities take her on staff with the Antiquities. She's able to describe in detail all of these ancient places that nobody knows anything about. This is a reincarnation story. Yet she is embedded in the scientific community. She is invaluable to Egyptian research, so much so that at that time, you were forced to retire at age 65. This is a woman, by the way, working in the '50s and '60s in Egypt. She's allowed to stay on until she wants to retire because she's invaluable to the research. She says that underneath the Sphynx is where we're going to find all sorts of tombs and artifacts of and all these famous people. She says they're down there. I don't know, but her story is very compelling to me. All right.

Well, so I mean, this is like one of these speculations you could probably prove if you tried.

Yes.

But we lack the technology to dig now? Can't dig. But we certainly have ground penetrating radar. Yes. Presumably, if that was employed by the Egyptian authorities, over time, you could get a pretty detailed picture of what's underneath, no?

Well, like with Haouara, their labyrinth, they didn't see permission to scan it. They just did. The permission has to come, but you still have to get your hands in the dirt. We can scan all we want, but unless permission is granted to dig, we're just not going to know.

What would be the rationale for not allowing people to pursue their curiosity in science and all that?

Again, I don't know. With the Hoara labyrinth, the excuse is if we disrupt the site, then there's a canal there. It will disrupt the local agriculture, which is very important to that region. So we can't disrupt the farm, the farmers. That's the reason.

And the Great Pyramids?

Why we can't dig? I don't know. But we should also acknowledge that there is exploration happening. I think Pharoah Tumas II was just discovered a few weeks ago in the Valley of the Kings. People are looking. I don't think they're looking exactly in the right places.

There was a disk found in a tomb in Egypt maybe 100 years ago that looks to be... It's made out of basalt, it's made of stone, but it looks... It's the most modern thing you've ever seen. I would encourage people to look it up if you're on your phone right now, we'll just look up Egyptian tomb disk, and it looks like an impeller maybe in a motor, an electric motor.

But clearly, that was not created by a primitive civilization.

No. It's the most Precisely, first of all, how do you machine basalt? It's not hand carved, obviously. Look at it. What's the explanation for that?

I don't think there is one. I don't think there is one. I would like to know how they carved that. Basalt would be lava rock, igneus rock, the hardest rock on earth?

I don't- Oh, is it the hardest?

Well, it's not like diamond, but copper is not going to get through that.

It's so precise.

It's perfect.

It's perfect.

It's perfect.

You look at it for about In 15 seconds, you're like, No, no, no. Ancient culture did not make that. At least the ancient culture should have been described to me.

Not just the machining, but the mathematics. I mean, it's perfect.

Well, that's a good point. The design. Okay. Do we have any hint of the energy? Clearly, the missing piece here is energy. The megaliths, including the ones in the United States, the massive structures in the American Midwest and in Florida, Earth and Earthworks. These are not built. It's just the math doesn't work on the number of man hours required to build any of this stuff. A lot of the temples in Latin America, Anchor Wat. Clearly, it's not just somebody with a bronze knife making this stuff.

It's not. Now, Madal is another one. That's Polynesia also. They almost look like Lincoln logs, but they're 10, 20 tons. They're huge. No one knows how they could have been put into place. They still stand. They still stand. We don't know when they were built or how long ago. But if you look at it from the air, you can see they had a sewer system. They devised a way to get fresh water through this whole society, but nobody knows who built this.

Or why.

Why? Or why. The why could just be, we live here. What's interesting is sewer system, fresh water. This is a long time before Roman aqueducts.

Yes.

But there they are.

So What the explanation lacks is an energy source. It's not just biceps. Has anyone put forward a reasonable hypothesis on that?

I mean, it depends how you define reasonable. Of course, it does.

Plausible, I guess, is what I would say.

Plausible? Nothing that satisfies me. The copper doesn't work, the abrasives don't work for me. Acoustic levitation, I like, but that's really hard to prove. I'm Acoustic levitation is a thing. You can't levitate things with sound. That is proven. Giant stones, we can't do that. But just because we can't doesn't mean someone else could.

Are you sure we can't? I guess another way of putting it would be, are you convinced that the US government is totally transparent about energy?

No, I think they're totally opaque about energy. Really? Tell me. Oh, yes. I think the US government It probably has unlocked zero point or close to zero point energy, which would be pulling energy out of the vacuum. We have inventors that have done that over and over and over.

Making energy of apparently nothing.

Well, we could start with... There's a man named Charles Pogue, who in the '30s tinkered with this carburator and was able to get 200 miles a gallon. It was proven. It was engineers investigated scientists. It was totally proven. It worked. He was going to be a zillionaire or whatever. He was going to transform society. The problem was once the news of his engine got out, the oil stocks crashed. They just crashed. So the oil industry lobbied the US government. We have to do something about this. And in 1951, the Invention Secrecy Act was passed. So now, if you patent any device that is more than 20% efficient, that's instantly classified. That is now a state secret. What? It's vital to national security. You can't talk about it. You can't build it, and you can't sell it unless you sell it to the US military. You cannot do it. That went on for a while. Then there was a man named Tom Ogle. Tom is... This is the '70s now. He accidentally rewires his lawnmower engine to take the exhaust and pump it back into the carburator. And this thing runs on a gallon of gas for 78 hours or something like that.

So he reconfigures his car. It was like a 1976 Ford Galaxy, like a boat. And he's getting 200 miles to the gallon on the thing. He's offered a billion dollars from an oil-producing country. Shell Oil offers him $25 million for the patent that he considers, but they're going to shelve it. So he says, no. It's considered maybe one of the biggest inventions of the century. Suddenly, Tom, without a history of drug use, stumbles out of a bar. He's drunk and he's killed. That's the end of Tom Ogle's story. That all disappears. All that research goes away. This repeats over and over and over again till we get to Stanley Meyer. You might remember Stanley Meyer in the water car because this is in the 1990s now. Now we have a vehicle that doesn't even... We're not even talking about fossil fuels and protecting a multi-trillion dollar industry. We've got a car that runs on water using electrolysis, which has been around since the 1700s. But electrolysis requires a lot of energy and perfect water without impurities. But Stanley's figured out how to take tap water, put it into his car, and run his car on water.

What it does is splits the water into hydrogen. Oxygen runs in hydrogen. Hydrogen is a fuel. It works. It works. He drives it all over the place. It's all over the news. Engineers look at it. They say, this is the invention of the century. This changes everything. He's offered a billion dollars and millions of dollars, and everyone wants his engine. He's sitting at, I think he was sitting at a cracker barrel with his brother and some investors. They raise a glass to toast new investment to go into the future. They take their toast, and Stanley suddenly doesn't feel well. He runs outside, he starts vomiting. His brother chases after him and says, What's going on? Stanley says, They poison me, and he dies. In the medical examiner's report, it says he died of an aneurysm. But if you read the report, you can tell the medical examiner didn't really like that because he wrote some other stuff like, Oh, he said he was poison, but toxicology doesn't really show it. But he says he died of an aneurysm. That technology is now gone. The patent's useless because Stanley faked the numbers because he didn't trust the government because he had another invention that most people don't know about before his water car, which was this toroid ring.

A toroid is a donut. This donut-shaped ring that he invented that created energy out of nothing and levitated. But he patented it and got hit with a secrecy act, and they made his life miserable. But people started to learn about that. That brings us... There are other inventors in between T. T. Towns and Brown, to invent this antigravity technology. He runs into all kinds of bad luck. All these men have their research stolen. They're broken into, they're carrying guns. They're threatened. They're disappearing. It happens over and over and over again. I have an episode on this. It's very sad. We get to Floyd Sparky Sweet. Floyd Sparky Sweet. He's my favorite because his inventions, he videotaped all his stuff. You see him in his workshop And Sparky, he's an engineer. He's a garage tinkerer, but he's an engineer. And this was supervised by a military physicist, maybe it was a mistake. And you see him running a fan at high RPMs And then he's got light bulbs, all this energy, and it's all running off this little box the size of a deck of cards. And he puts in 0. 03 milliwatts, and he gets out all the watts you want.

It's a device that no matter what you attach to it, it just whatever the need is, it will give you the energy. This is Sparky Sweet. This actually connects to UFO technology. I don't know if we'll go there, but it does connect. Sparky's got this invention. He gets some help from military physicist. Gets a visit late one night to men in suits. Come talk to him. Say good night. He has a heart attack. Ambulance comes. They They grab Sparky. The wife is not allowed in the ambulance. He dies. Soon after, a couple of black vans pull up. They take all his stuff, all his notes, every piece of equipment, and it just disappears. That's the last we hear of it.

About when was this?

I would say this is late '90s. I mean, Stanley Meyer was 1998. This is recently. This is recently, yeah. Smart, he may even be more recent than that.

Is there evidence the US government is using any of this technology? Hyper-efficient, anti-gravity, levitation, any of this stuff in military technology?

I mean, you can argue that the go fast video, the tic-tac, some of these could be that. I tend to think they are.

There was a tantalizing, almost shocking admission the other day from the US government that during the Maduro Snatch operation in Caracas on January third, that the US military, apparently, used directed energy weapons? I don't know that anyone's ever said out loud. I don't know if they said it out loud, but it was obvious that's what it was.

They have been very interested in those since Tesla's research.

Tell us what they are.

Directed energy weapons. With Tesla, he had a few different versions about ionizing air and projecting electricity through the air. He had a few different ways of doing it. I don't have the science background to explain specifically what it is, but directed energy is just that. You take energy like a laser would be a directed energy, but using it as a weapon. And Tesla was working on that technology, but what he wanted to do was create free energy for the world, which turned out to be a problem for him. And that's another story. But when he died, so he died, I think it was January 7, 1943, the FBI was there. They were on top of it. They came way too fast. And all his research, 60, 80 boxes were confiscated by the Office of Alien Property, which has nothing to do with extraterrestrials. It's Office of Alien Property because he's not a US-born, so they come and take his research. Although he was a citizen since, I don't know, the 1800s. He had been a citizen 50 years. They seized his property and they send it to Wright Patterson Air Force base for a scientist named John Trump to investigate Tesla's research, specifically They're specifically looking-Later an MIT professor?

Yes, later an uncle of a president. They're specifically looking for a DEWs. That's the technology they want. They finally return Tesla's boxes.

Are you sure it was John Trump who received Tesla's effects? Yes.

That's documented. Actually?

Yes. But what's- For a country of hundreds of millions of people, we have these weird coincidences a lot.

Isn't it strange? And the same families show up over and over. It's probably not the episode to get into the Bush family, but boy, I'd love to one day. I want to do an episode on them. I don't talk about the Bushes or the Clintons on my show or Mossad.

I think you're a wise man.

The boxes are- That is wild.

I've talked to Trump about his uncle 20 times. He's very proud of his uncle.

The last point on that, 20 boxes are missing, and we don't know where they are. That's the last point on that. We don't know where the boxes are.

But you're sure it was the same John Trump that the talks about. He's a long tenured MIT professor? He talks about him all the time.

He brags about him.

All the time? Yes.

He was connected to military intelligence.

Huh?

Yeah, Wright Patterson, Air Force Base, the home of Project Blue Book, UFO research.

Those 20 boxes of Nikolai Tesla's research have never surfaced?

They have not.

Can you give us... I know many books have been written on this, and famous company He was named after Tesla, of course, and all that. But can you just give us the CliffsNotes version of his life? You said it didn't end well for him. What did you mean?

He was very focused on free energy for the world. He wanted to usher in a new age for humanity, which free energy certainly would do. He was supported by J. P. Morgan, was his financier. Tesla was not a good businessman. His rival, Edison, was. He wasn't as talented, but he was good at playing the business game. Tesla was not. So Tesla wanted to create free energy. He was supported by J. P. Morgan and said, I'm close. Tesla demonstrated free energy, but he plugged light bulbs into the ground and had them working. So he demonstrated it. And he said to J. P. Morgan, I just need a little bit more money and we can put energy for everyone. Could you just tap into it? And J. P. Morgan said, well, if energy comes out of the air, where do we put the meter? What do you mean free energy? New age of mankind. J. P. Morgan pulls the funding and funds Edison and Marconi instead. Tesla, this is Wardencliff Tower on Long Island where he's doing this research. He goes in default on the mortgage. They tear it down. He dies in poverty in the New Yorker Hotel in 1943.

One of the most brilliant- Across from Penn Station. Yes, it is. One of the now Migrant Hotel.

Yes, it is. That's where he died? That's where he, room 3327.

That's a crummy place to die.

It is. But there's a good white castle downstairs.

I don't think anymore.

Probably not.

Wow. Do we have any sense of what concepts he was working on when he died or what might have been in those 20 missing boxes?

It was the directed energy weapons that they really wanted. There's a good deal of documentation that the military was interested in that. But specifics, no, we don't have that. We just don't know specifically what were in those boxes. His nephew says it was everything to do with energy.

Just for interest' sake, John Trump, the uncle of the current President, a longtime MIT professor, is there any evidence that he worked on the OAP question?

None that I could find. But if you're at Wright Patterson in the '40s and '50s, that's Project Blue Book. So that's the home base of the UFO research. So whether he's working on it, I can't prove that, but he's certainly passing those guys in the hall. I mean, Blue Book started when '52, so he's involved. He's there.

I keep hearing this phrase remote viewing, which I picture in my head what it is. I don't really know what it is. I don't know if it's real or not. The government's involved. What do you know about remote viewing?

First, tell me what you think it is.

I think remote viewing is... I I like actually being a little bit false. I have some sense of what it is. I know. It's the ability to see things that are very far from your physical proximity. You close your eyes and you can all of a sudden look into a room a thousand miles away. I know that, I think it's true, that CIA work to evoke this ability in people. But I want to know this data plate. Is that actually real?

Do we know that it's real? We know that it's real. Remote It probably started at the beginning of the human race, but remote viewing that we're talking about started 1972, Stanford Research Institute. Russell Targ and the help put off physicists, scientists, were just studying psychic phenomenon. Just, here's a shape on a card. That scene at the beginning of Ghostbusters, is it a star? Is it a circle? They're doing that thing. The man walks in. His name is Ingo Swann. He's become a very famous psychic. At this point, Targan put off essentially advertising on campus, Psychics Wanted. So he walks in and says, I'm the best psychic in the world. So they give him a card to read and he says, Give me something hard to do. I'm like, Well, what? Send somebody out in the San Francisco Bay area and I'll tell you where they what they see. It's like, Okay, we'll do that. So they send somebody out, and he just starts to focus and concentrate, and he starts to draw. I see a water fountain, but there's no water in it. I see these circles on the ground. I see a building, and it turns out he got it all right.

They describe the pattern of the walkway. There was a fountain there that was not on that particular day. The building was exactly where they said it Then they realized, Okay, we have something different here than a shape on a card. They said, Well, Inga, where can you go? And he said, I can go anywhere. Anywhere? Anywhere in space and time. I have a whole episode of Ingo remote viewing the moon, but let's stick with this for now. They test Ingo Swann a few times. Yuri Geller was another one they who was able to see things inside safes. There are a few other psychic, Pat Price is my personal favorite. Joe McMonagal is a very famous one. But what got CIA's attention was, in At Stanford, buried deep underground was a magnetometer. This was used to measure perturbations in the Earth's crust to detect nuclear explosions. This is an important device. It's buried underground, shielded by cement, superconduct, shielding. You can't get to it. Ingo is able to draw what it looks like, and he says, I could even move that needle. I said, Go for it. So he moves the needle. Now, they're excited. The experiment works, but that needle moving means a nuclear explosion has been off somewhere.

So the CIA government gets involved. They want to, what's going on? It's not a nuclear explosion. Oh, we are doing this program. They say, You're doing what? And they don't really care that he can move a needle. They're worried about he can see inside behind cement. And that means there's no more secrets. The CIA starts funding this project through various front companies. All intelligence agencies want to get involved with this. It comes to a peak. This is before Pat gets involved. But it's an interesting story. It's called the Sugar Grove Break-in. There's a CIA analyst. There's a bunch of CIA people there. Cia analyst says, Here are coordinates. They give to Ingo Swam. Nobody knows what the coordinates are. The analyst won't tell. The handlers won't tell. Nobody knows. Here are the coordinates. Ingo does this thing, and he says, I see a guard house. There's a radar our giant radar dish. It looks like a military. There's accordion roll-up doors. There's Jeeps. It's military. It's some type of military installation. He draws it. The mountains are here, the roads here. There's the river. Detailed map. He says, That's what I saw. And they give it to the analyst and say, Here, is this it?

And the guy's like, It's not even close. I gave you the coordinates of my vacation house in West Virginia. And they were like, Ah, shit. Okay. So that didn't work. But Pat Price comes along, and Pat Price, maybe the most talented psychic ever, here remote views the same location, sees the same things without knowing anything what Ingo saw. You look at the maps, they're almost identical. Radar dish, guard tower, roll-up doors. But Pat is very talented. He says, I see a building. I'm going into the building. Let me back up for a second. Pat Price, retired police officer from Burbank, always had an intuition to solve crimes. Where's Where's the body? Price knows. Where's the suspect hiding? Price knows. He just thought he had a hunch. But he retired and started to develop this skill and heard about this program and got involved. So that's Pat Price. So he sees the same things. So now that's clearly not a coincidence. So this is not a log cabin vacation home. What's going on there? So SRI sends someone to the coordinates. They find the vacation. They found the log cabin, and they're like, But there's a dirt road here about 200 feet.

We'll follow the road. They follow the road down just over the ridge in West Virginia and Sugar Grove, and there's the guard house. It's a military installation, and they can't enter, but they could see there's a radar dish. The problem was Pat Price went into the building He said, I see green filing cabinets. All right, Pat, what else? It says Operation Pool? Okay. He said, I'm going through the folders. Q-ball, Q- Stick, Rackup, 8-Ball. It's very specific. It turns out that caused every law enforcement agency in the country to show up at SRI. They wanted to know why this weird CIA pet project was spying on the most secret NSA facility in the world. Not just secret, but so top secret that even the names of the projects, which were Q-ball, rack up all this, were top, top secret. This is a facility to spy on Russian satellites. Nobody knew it was there. The CIA analyst didn't know it was there. Ingo and Pat, their consciousness, they just assumed, Well, they don't care about the Log Capman. It's the CIA. They obviously want us to look at this. From then on, every intelligence agency had psychics working, all of them.

None of them admitted to it, but they all had psychics working for them.

I know that the Iran rescue operation in 1980, he had one.

Correct. That was Joe McMonagal who found that. This operation, I think, was leaked by Jimmy Carter in '96, who was giving a talk at a college. Some kid asked him, What's the weirdest thing that ever happened when you were President? He said in his peanut farmer voice, We had this Russian bomber go down in Africa, and we needed to get there before the Soviets. We didn't know how to do that. But we knew we had this group of psychics that could see stuff. They were helping solve because they were involved with the Patty Hearst kidnapping. They helped find that. But that's not why they reported, but it happened. They had a remote viewer who was really just like a receptionist that they trained to do this. So this is an ability that we can all do. She found where that bomber went down, and the American military was able to get there before the Russians and retrieve this bomber. This is It's all documented. Carter just let that slip. That was the end of the public knowing about- That was the whole reveal? It was. It was called Project Stargate at this time, but it was originally Project Scanate and Grillflame.

And Center Lane and some other names like that. Project Stargate is the one that everybody knows. So they test Pat Price again, and they said, Rather than spying ourselves, let's see what he can see on the Soviet side. Pat He draws this. He says, I see a science fiction crane, and he draws it out. It's a big gantry crane, which is like, I don't know, 100-foot tall crane that sits on a railroad track. It's a huge thing. And he draws it and shows it to CIA, and they can't believe it, but it matches aerial photography. So he sees it. So now they want to know, What is this thing? He says, I don't know what it is, but underground are these 60-foot metal spheres, but they don't work. Nobody knows what they are. It later comes out that they weren't 60-foot spheres, they were 58 feet, and they were containment for nuclear material, but they didn't work. So he saw that. That was Pat Price. He is so impressed with his work that they say, You just come and work for us. So they pulled him out of the SRI, and he's exclusively working for CIA at that point.

He's He's doing some of his own remote viewing on the side, not espionage. He's looking around. And his most famous one is he remote viewed Mount Hayes, Mount Hayes in Alaska. And he sends his consciousness into the mountain, and he sees inside the mountain, tall, thin alien beings working alongside American military. He sees it inside the mountain. Now, people have gone up there. There's no way in, there's no way out. I can't prove any of it, but this is what he saw. So he takes that information. He gives it to Hal put off. Hal's no longer with Stargate at this point. I think it's run by Skip Atwater. Could be wrong, but I think it was Skip. Gives it to Skip, and Skip passes it along. Just a couple of days later, Pat is in Las Vegas, and he's in the hotel lobby in front of the elevators, heading up to his room. Someone bumps into him and he feels like a pinch, a pinch on his leg. He goes upstairs, calls his wife to say good night. She said, You don't sound good. He says, I don't feel well. He says, Say good night.

And he's found dead the next morning. 58 years old. They called it a heart attack, but no autopsy is done. Someone comes in with credentials. They say, We'll take it from here. Pat's body is cremated. Then they call his wife and say what happened. Pat's now buried in an unmarked grave in North Hollywood, which you can find if you want to pay your respects, if that's where Pat is. Pat Price is probably the most talented that there was. Joe McMonagal is famous. He's still around, by the way. Still remote viewing. He's the one who found a large building, like 100 yards from water in the Soviet Union and didn't know what they were building in there. He starts sketching a submarine. Like, all right, they're building a sub. And he says, no, this is different. It's like two subs together. It's like a twin sub. They're like, what are you talking about? It's a twin hole sub. He said, It's giant. He said, I've never seen anything this big. And they're going to launch it in 120 days. That's specific. Then 118 days later, the Russian typhoon class sub is launched, and it's the largest submarine ever made, and it's a twin hole sub.

Joe saw that. Now, he claims his success rate is like 90, 95%. He says it's lower than that, but he saw that. Joe McMonagal, he's received the Order of Merit, which I think is the second-highest award you can get. I think it's the second-highest as a civilian from the military. In his citation, it's for 200 successful missions, 150 of which provided vital intelligence to American operations. But it doesn't say anything more than that. But that's in his official citation. Now, all All this comes out, and I think Gates was DCI at this point. He goes on TV and says, There's nothing to this Stargate thing. No real intelligence has come from it, and we're shutting it down. That was the last that happened with Stargate. Publicly.

Publicly.

I think it continues because the Soviets were trying to do the same thing at the time, and they allegedly got it to work. Now, interestingly enough, Soviet and American room of viewers, they get together and they teach each other and actually practice. What I find fascinating is they could see not just through space, but through time. There was one time where Joe McMonagall was given, he was given coordinates and he remote viewed it and he said, I think I'm on Mars. I said, Okay, what do you see? He says, I see these tall, slender beings walking around. Something's going on. There's a problem. Their species is dying. He said, I feel like it's a long time ago. He comes out of his trans, whatever. So the coordinates were Mars, and it said Mars, 1 million BC. So he saw beings on Mars. At the time, Mars was supposed to be this barren planet, but Mars was very Earth-like oceans. But at the time, no one said that. But Joe saw it. Just like Ingo on the moon, saw alien bases on the moon, saw psychic beings on the moon. He said, They're aware of us.

I think those are the things that make the government nervous.

Did the crew of any of the Apollo missions when they landed on the moon? Do they see anything?

Officially, no. Officially, no. The story goes that there's a radio blackout when Neil and Buzz are up there, when they first get there, and there is a radio blackout. The story is how the orbit works, sometimes the radio signal drops, whatever. The story is they switched over to the medical channel and said, They're here, they're on the crater, and they can see us. That's what the story is. Ingo Swann said he saw things on the moon. He saw structures, he saw beings that are there. If you go through secondary sources, every astronaut has seen strange things in space. Edgar Mitchell is on record of saying, UFOs are real, they're extraterrestrial, Roswell is real. That happened. We have craft. The government is lying. This is the sixth man to walk on the moon. This is not a kook. This is an American hero. So something's clearly going on up there. But anyway, that's the nutshell.

What do we know about the moon exactly?

Not very much. Not very much at all. Let me ask you, do you think Do you think we landed on the moon?

I have a lot of thoughts on it that I never get into.

I mean, I- You squirmed the way I do and asked.

I mean, I went down this once because it's my job, right? I found it really distressing, so I just give up. But I did, you never know who's telling you the truth about anything, right? But I talk to people, I do trust. I'm like, No, it's not. But then I thought, whatever. I spent my life looking into things and trying to figure out what's real and what's not. I do think in midlife, you realize having done this for so many years, that some things you're not going to know. I think you can go crazy because I've pushed to the edge of it myself, trying to figure out what's right, what's true, what actually happened, what reality is. But I think it's unattainable on certain stories. This may be one of them. I will say we accidentally only taped over the original footage because you ran out of beta max. The schematic drawings of the of the spacecraft are missing and all.

It's like telemetry data is gone.

Telemetry data is gone. It's like, Stop.

They can't replicate the technology.

Right, yeah. That would... I'll say this. If it was faked, of course, can't prove that, then it's just one more instance of the US government having to backfill a a 57-year-old lie, and it's done that a lot. It certainly did it with the murder of John F. Kennedy. You tell a lie, and it just doesn't go away because you have to continually make up new lies in order to cover the er lie, the original lie. You'd hate to think that's real.

That's the struggle with the Moon landing question, I think, because it wasn't a got you question, because when I'm asked that all the time and I do the same thing, I go, A, I wish you didn't ask me that. B, I'm not sure. I think we did. I think something was found up there, which is why we didn't go back. For me, it all hinges on Edgar Mitchell because I trust and believe him. If he says he walked in the moon, then I believe him. But I think something was found up there that maybe the government didn't want us to find.

There's clearly lying around it. I mean, that's what we know. I just know that from having a lot of children. If there's evasion and certain parts of the story don't make sense, then there's lying there. Now, what does that add up to? Sometimes it's just very minor, and sometimes it's not. But lying is the tell. It's a sign of what it is, which is deception, trying to hide the truth from other people. Clearly, they are lying.

That's what makes us so difficult is because we know they lie about all these things. We run around in circles and the waters are muddied. I think that's the whole point It may be because simply because I know you're lying does not mean I know what the truth is.

Correct. That is true for so many different things, some of which I have very close proximity to where I know for a fact you're lying. You basically told me you're lying, but I can only guess as to why. Right.

That's 100% true.

Last question, do you ever feel driven to craziness by your job? I mean, talk about in the middle of it.

Yes. Maybe not insanity, but I have become maybe certainly more jaded, disappointed in my government because I didn't grow up that way. I grew up in a very patriotic home. Everybody's a cop or in the military or both, draped in old glory. I was like that really my whole life. Iraq wars, I'm behind you. Me too. America, everything, all of it. In my research, I learned that I think just about every war fought since the Second World War is based on a lie. I can't find any that are based on truth. There's an argument that even World War II, we were... America was deceived into getting involved in that. But every other war was based on a lie, and that's certainly proven. The Gulf War was started by a PR company. You remember when Nouria gave her her testimony in front of Congress? They were throwing the babies on the ground in the hospital. It was very heartbreaking. She was the daughter of the ambassador of Kuwait. In lying, she had never been to that hospital. But I remember that. We had boots on the ground.

Yeah. Killed a lot of people. Not many Americans died, thank heaven. But yeah, I drove on the highway of death, boy. I'm not defending the Iraqis, I guess, It doesn't matter how many we kill. That's our official view.

But there's only 30,000.

It was pretty brutal. I mean, I saw the aftermath of it. It was pretty brutal.

But the 500 Americans, that's enough for me to get it uncomfortable.

They're 500 killed in the first Gulf War? Mm-hmm. I'm so embarrassed. I didn't remember that.

Jaded, disappointed, angry, but not bitter. I end my episodes really never with despair, never really with hope. It's more about try to... When you're told things, just think closely. I try to help people to not what to think, but how to think. Don't trust everything that comes out of the media, whether you're on the right or the left, that's all a puppet show. It's really about people versus power. And anything that powerful tell you, don't trust it. Exactly. Exactly.

Why I couldn't have put that better. Aj, thank you very much.

Thank you for having me.

Wreck my sleep.