Transcript of War Was the Easy Part | Eduardo Garduno New

Hey guys, welcome to The Team House. My name's Jack Murphy and I'm here with today's guest, Eduardo Garduño. He is a Ranger that served in 2nd Ranger Battalion, was a mortar guy, 11 Charlie, did deployments to Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq. I just read your unpublished memoir, Eduardo, and it's a pretty compelling story. You had a pretty wild upbringing. And a pretty, you know, I mean, we can say a pretty tough transition, I think, out of the military into the police force, into the private sector. So we'll talk about all this stuff during the interview, but Eduardo, thank you for joining us and, you know, being willing to share your story.

Yeah, I'm happy to be here. You know, just tell my point of view and if it helps people along the way, helps them get the resources they need, then that's all I'm really shooting for, you know.

Yeah, no, that's great. Well, let's start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about like your family and what your upbringing was like.

Yeah, it was on paper, it's a lot worse than what it sounds, but as a kid, you know, it's what I was used to. My dad was an immigrant from Mexico. At 5 years old, he was working fields and he had the mentality through his whole career of landscaping and Just that Mexican mentality of, I'm going to be the provider, I'm going to do everything in my power to work 6 days a week. And just that mentality really left a lot of open doors for me just to do whatever I wanted as a kid. You know, both parents are always at work. My wife did your typical housekeeping and my dad did landscaping. And between the two of them, you know, they were too busy working to actually take care of me. So I was just left alone to my own devices and Unfortunately, I was surrounded with all the wrong people, so I just leaned into that.

You had a big family too, right? A lot of brothers and sisters.

Yeah, I lose count. There's such a huge age gap that only my older brother's the one— like, my older brother and my little— my first sister are really the only ones that I really consider brothers. The rest are more like an uncle figure. Like, they're so young.

Oh, I got you.

They're like 10 years old right now. It's like, yeah, I'm their brother, but I don't really know them like that. The only person I really know is my brother who I grew up with, and he wasn't exactly your typical role model. Yeah.

I mean, in your book, what really came through I thought was interesting was how hard a worker your dad was. And he was really just grindstone all day and trying to do the best he possibly could for the family. But at the same time, it sounded like he had his own misgivings too. Uh, at certain points?

Yeah, I think, uh, alcohol was his biggest coping mechanism. Uh, he drank until the age of 41, and that was most of my childhood, unfortunately. And then it was just a lot of him drinking, me realizing we're poor and we don't have food. And, you know, he has $20, what's he going to spend it on? Alcohol or buying us more food or buying us shoes, buying us clothes? Well, it was alcohol. And I saw that and I just didn't agree with it. It made me angry a lot of the time. So it was just, I took the good and the bad, you know? Yes, I learned a lot of good lessons on how to, how to work, you know, at the age of like 10, he was, I was already doing landscaping all the way up until 18 where I was like, I don't want to do landscaping for my, the rest of my life. I'm gonna go do something else.

Uh, and, um, You know, you were a bit of a troublemaker in school, right? You get sent to the principal's office quite a bit.

Yeah, I feel like it's a common theme for us special operations guys, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. I just, it was the lack of attention I was getting at home, you know, looking at, looking back at it now, it's obvious that I wasn't getting the attention at home. So I looked for it at school. And unfortunately, the way I got the attention was I'd have to be louder than everyone else. I'd have to be more disruptive. And it worked. I got the attention I was looking for. It just wasn't in the best manners.

And could you describe a little bit, like, as you started to hit your teenage years, you know, where you guys were living? You were out in California, as I recall, and your older brother got mixed up in some really bad stuff as you guys, you know, grew up.

Yeah, I'll start in the beginning.

Sure.

Elementary, like really young age. Like the first thing I remember is like 5 years old, you know, I had a— I had— we lived in Section 8 housing, and for whatever reason, kid brain, you know, doesn't think clearly. And the first real memory I have of my father is there's a ball stuck on a roof or an airplane. I don't remember what it was. I just remember— not a roof, on a tree. And I remember wanting to get it. So I went inside and my dad had all this landscaping equipment because he did landscaping on the side, and there was some rope. So I grabbed the rope. And being a 5-year-old kid, I don't know how to tie Ranger School knots yet. I haven't been there yet. But I get, I somehow I get the, get it over a branch. So I get it and even it out. And in my kid logic brain, I was like, I'm gonna tie it around my neck and pull myself up, you know, to go get this airplane.

It's like some Bugs Bunny logic.

Yeah. Yeah. So I get around my neck. It's not tight or anything. It's just like your typical one one loop knot, and I'm going to pull it, and then I see my dad running out screaming at me. And for the first time, I, I saw emotion in his eyes, you know. I saw him like actually scared and like sad. And he ran, he, he grabbed the rope. He, he's just not— I was expecting him to scream at me, you know. I was, I was doing something wrong in my mind. And he just looks at me, he just hugs me. He doesn't say anything. He just hugs me and he starts tearing up, but he's not saying anything. And After a little while, like a minute or two passed and he's still hugging me and he finally clears his throat. He's like, what are you doing? It's like, I wanted the— I wanted the ball or the airplane. I don't remember what it was, but I wanted to grab it. He's like, why didn't you just ask me? And like, he just goes back inside, grabs a ladder and gets it down and plays with me for a little bit.

But that's like one of the core memories. Like, that's like the first thing I remember from my childhood was my dad being an actual father figure, which In today's world, it's really hard to come by.

Sure, absolutely.

But from there, it's just a lot of the same, you know. My dad's drinking, I'm bringing him beers, and I come to realize the more beers I bring him, the more generous he is with money. And it was, it was your typical, you know, they drink a case, they go to the liquor store and they, they get more beer. And I have a vivid memory of I was the reason behind them getting a— my uncle losing his vehicle and getting a driving without a license ticket. And this was young. I was probably like, if I had to guess, like 6, 7 years old, really young. And they're going to the liquor store. I know if I go, they're gonna buy me chips or something because they're drunk and they're a little more friendly after they had a couple beers. So we're driving and my dad would always put the seatbelt on me. It was just a booster seat. He put the seatbelt on me. And I brought a toy with me. It was just a little plastic toy. I don't remember what it was, and I dropped it. So I leaned down, picked it up, and when I'm up, we're pulling over.

I was like, this isn't the beer store. And I look back and the red and blue lights are flashing. And my dad's just comforting me. Oh, it's okay. You know, it's probably just— it's nothing serious. Probably just a taillight, whatever. He'll talk to us and we'll get going. And As the officer approaches the window, he's telling my dad the reason for the— or my uncle was the one driving. My dad was passenger. He's telling him the reason for the stop was because I didn't have a seatbelt on. And I was like, but I did have a seatbelt on. I just reached down to grab the toy. Like, it was just— I pulled it off and leaned down.

Right.

And the officer was like, yeah, well, I still have probable cause, blah, blah, blah. And they went the whole back and forth. He's like, I know you guys have been drinking. I could smell it. I'm gonna cut you guys a break. I know, because my uncle didn't have a license because he was an immigrant. He's like, I'm gonna cut you guys a break. I'm gonna tow the car and then just write you a ticket, and then you guys could just walk. And me, me as a kid, you know, I don't know better. I thought this was all my fault, and I carried that guilt for way too long. I'm talking like recently, like the last 2 years, I finally was able to let some of that go. But, uh, we— he lets us go, and we still walk to the beer store. We still go and get alcohol and At that point, I don't want anything, you know. I'm just, I'm just so guilty that I lost my uncle's car and got him a ticket. And obviously they told me, you know, it was your fault because, you know, they stopped, they stopped us because of you.

So I carried that guilt. And then just from there, that hatred towards police officers really grew. And in my mind, it was just, it was just like he didn't take the time to actually, like, listen. And it was just like, okay, Yeah, he's cut us a break, but in the long run, I truly believe it was doing more bad than good, creating that divide of just lower-income people. They were always in that neighborhood. It was obvious why. I did it too as a police officer later in life. Lower-income people, you're going to have more crime. It's just factually correct. But early, That early on is when I started to lean towards, like, helping people and what was the best way I could do it. And I leaned into, like, Gandhi, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. And I just despised cops from that one incident. I have a couple more incidents down the road, but that's where it started. And from there, a lot of the same, you know, growing up as a kid, not having enough money, clothes, shoes, whatever. And it was just normal. I didn't care.

I got my hand-me-downs from my older brother who was big into, you know, your oversized AAA shirts, Dickie pants. And that was my hand-me-downs. I didn't have a choice. I didn't get to pick what clothes I got. It was up to me. You know, I'd want clothes that fit personally. That's just my style. But I got a lot of this Dickies and, you know, your generic Vans. You know, whenever you think of a gangster, that's what I was wearing.

And that's like, I still have this slicked back hair and just like a California gangster. I think of like in those days, the flannel shirt with the top button.

Oh, I couldn't afford the flannel shirt, so I just had the AAA. But that's how I would dress, and it wasn't by choice, you know, it was by hand-me-downs. And from there, we— that was one Section 8 housing, and then we upgraded to another Section 8 housing. We were on a waitlist for a little bit, and this is like a— it's still elementary school, like, uh, 4th, 5th grade, uh, or no, 9/11 era was when we moved over to these new apartments. And it was nice. Like, I didn't know what like a house was yet. I didn't know people can have pools. So like going from like terrible Section 8 housing to nicer Section 8 housing, because this was, uh, newly built and my parents were on the waitlist and they got in somehow. And we moved to this new Section 8 housing and it's nicer. They have like a computer science lab where it's like this room where you go like do activities. They have apple trees, they have like open field of grass you could play soccer in. And like all the neighborhood kids would just go outside and meet up there because there was nothing else to do.

But when we moved there, it was, it was, it was better. Uh, the, the biggest issue was the people I was surrounded with, you know. It was a lot of people that were left alone, home alone, with no real role models because everyone's working. So you just hang out with, with the neighborhood kids that are up to no good, you know, breaking windows, throwing water balloons, just, just getting into your typical trouble. It was at this apartment, uh, I had a very memorable experience. I was still a kid, so like I wasn't corrupted by my surroundings yet. I want to say I was like in 3rd grade. That's just a random guess. I was young and it was Halloween. And believe it or not, we were the kids that took your bowl, but we were respectful. We left the bowl. We took all the candy and just dumped it into the pillowcase and then kept walking. But as we're doing this, we're going looking for all the nice neighborhoods, the big houses, you know, that don't bother to stand at the door and hand out candy. So we're just grabbing bowls and we're making our lap and we make it down to like 13th Street.

It's gang territory owned by some Westsiders, you know, local gang stuff. I didn't know any of this. I knew I wanted candy. I knew my pillowcase was almost full. It's almost time to go home. But as we're walking there, it's me, my brother, a cousin, and then just some, uh, one of our friends, a neighborhood friend that for whatever reason, his parents, oblivious to the world, didn't understand that a Diablo mask represented the opposing gang. And as we're walking here, uh, We start hearing the— your typical gang whistle, you know, and we're looking around and there's these 2, uh, in my mind they were dressed up as gangsters. It was 2 females dressed up as gangsters. And, and they grabbed like my cousin's, uh, pillowcase full of candy and they're like, give me this, we're taking it. And my cousin's like, no, he's just a little kid, you know, fighting back. He was younger than me at the time and he was just fighting back, pulling on the pillowcase. He's like, let go, you fucking weenie. And little did he know, he was, he was like a churchgoing kid. He didn't really understand insults at the time.

So he said the worst possible thing. Oh, a weenie to a Westsider is like saying the N-word to a Black person.

Oh, really?

So, yeah. So it's that serious. It's like the worst thing you could possibly say. And when he said that, they let go and we're like, sweet, let's go, let's run. So we start running and then they do their gang whistle and it's just, it's like a mob starts forming. Like people are like coming out of the woodworks out of nowhere. Like there's people sitting on porches and they start chasing us and Like, I didn't know. I was a kid. I didn't want to get hurt, so I just kept running. And I remember running, and at some point I remember seeing my friend, uh, from school. His name was Mark, and he's on a bike passing us, and we just look at each other very confused because he was chasing me, but I was running with my friends, and he didn't know why we were running, and I didn't know why they were chasing. But I was so fast that I just kept on running. I didn't look back. And then I ran all the way home, and I looked back every now and then, and they were all still behind me, so I just kept on running.

And somehow, for whatever reason, they didn't catch any of us. Like, there was people with bats and stuff and like just screaming every slur you could possibly think of. And, we're gonna get you, we're gonna hurt you. And I was like, you ain't catching me. I would drop this candy and keep running if you guys get close. But somehow we managed to keep our candy and we made it all the way home. And later in life, I found out why they were chasing us. You know, my brother explained it to me, but at the time I didn't know. Like, I was just a kid, you know, I was innocent at the time. I wasn't into causing chaos yet. But that was very memorable for me. That, that's when like the shift started changing of, oh wait, the world's actually dangerous. People actually hurt you out here. And then in those elementary school years is where I learned like, uh, there was this boxer guy, the same guy on the bike. His name was Mark, and everyone left him alone for whatever reason. And we were friends, so I asked him, I was like, why don't people mess with you?

And he just explained, he's like, yeah, man, I will beat the shit out of them. I was like, oh, sweet. I was like, how? He's like, he's like, I've been boxing forever. I was like, well, you mind if I say I've been boxing with you too? He's like, no, go ahead. I was like, all right, sweet. I've been boxing. How long have we been boxing for? He's like, bro, I've been boxing since I was like 2 years old. I was like, me too. In reality, I haven't been boxing at all whatsoever. I just It was building a persona. And from there, like, people just stopped messing with me knowing that I had him as a friend, like, because it was essentially protection, you know. No one wanted to mess with the guy who's best friends with a boxer. That was elementary, you know. No one really picked on me then. And it wasn't until middle school where I started to develop— I had to hurt people first before I got hurt. It's terrible logic. I understand that now, but As a kid, you know, that I truly believe that. And that's really where I started getting in trouble a lot more, where I have a lot of like, uh, fights and stuff, just, just childhood fights.

And I was very analytical about it. I was not picking a fight unless I knew I can win. And I studied people's, uh, foot movement, their stance. And what I did is I just punched you as hard as I can, my first punch, and then just bum rush you until you gave up or until you were separated, because most fights in the school only last like 30 seconds to a minute until they get separated. So I knew if I hit you first, you're thrown off your game, and I could just punch you as many times as I want, and then someone's going to separate us eventually. So I just kept that mentality, you know. I got into 2 fights, and for whatever reason, we never got caught. It was— one was in a bathroom, and this was my first fight. It was in a bathroom where the floor was way too wet. There was way too many people in this bathroom, and we're just— We're just dancing at this point. No one's getting hurt. We're throwing punches and we're just like catching each other with hugs. And at the end of it, we just hug it out.

We're like, all right, bro, it's over. You know, we got our emotions out. We're cool again. We're friends again. And I was like, man, that didn't really have the effect I wanted. You know, it didn't build the persona of leave me alone. So I decided to pick another fight. And this one's kind of rough because it was a close friend of mine. And I picked the fight on purpose. I knew what I was doing. I knew if I bullied him enough, sooner or later he'd want to fight me. And I knew I could beat his ass because I was bigger than him. And I just— he wasn't a fighter. So after, like, you know, picking on him, like, just messing, pushing him in the hallway, you know, your very generic textbook bullying, slapping the books out of his hand for just because I could, he finally had enough. He's like, you know what, I'm gonna fight you after school. I was like, sure, pick a day. And being a bad kid, I had detention that day. And luckily I had a friend, uh, his name was Carlos. And I was like, hey bro, uh, can you sign me in since you're at detention?

He's like, oh yeah, I got you. I was like, sweet, I have my alibi. And we just did this for each other because we both, we both were bad kids and he didn't want to go home because he went home to an abusive house. And he's like, I'd rather just cause trouble at school and stay at school so I don't have to deal with it as much. So he signs me into detention. So I have my alibi in my mind. Little did I know they have cameras everywhere. As a kid, you're not thinking about these things. So we pick our spot and it's way too many people. There's security. They know it's going to— it's going down. But we get there early enough to where it's like a 2-minute fight. And the first thing I do is like, I was like, you don't want to fight me. I'm going to hurt you. I'm just going to start talking shit to get in their head. And like the whole time before we even start fighting, I'm just going, you know, you're gonna lose this and I'm sorry, man. You're just gonna cry afterwards. And like he's doubting himself at this point.

He's not as confident as me. I just knew if I was, if I was the first to hit, I won. In my mind, you know, it's like I gotta get my first punch in. So there's all this back and forth banter. And finally someone's like, all right, just fight. I was like, sweet. I was like, you ready? He's like, yeah. So I run Superman punch him as hard as I could, and he's, he's up, he stumbles, uh, he's up in a corner in like a cutoff section under some stairs in, in my middle school. And I just started bum rushing him, and he's like, uh, going fetal position trying to cover his face, and I'm punching him in his face as hard as I can. And I don't know, I heard someone say like chill or stop, and I couldn't. Like, I just let the rage control me. I just kept going. And at this point, I'm punching him in his face as hard as I can. And it wasn't until someone said, uh, security that I, I finally stopped. And I took off running. You're not catching me. You're not catching me fighting. Uh, so I ran, uh, and I just kept running.

I ran all the way home. It was like 3 miles. I get home, I, I turn on the TV, I pretend like nothing happened, wait for my parents to get home. And the next day, uh, I get called into the office and they call my mom, they call my parents. My mom's the only one that drives. My dad still to this day doesn't drive because he was an alcoholic then. In his mind, he told us, if I'm going to be an alcoholic, I'm never going to drive because, you know, I want to stay here. You know, I don't want to have a DUI. I don't want to crash and kill someone. But my mom shows up to the principal's office and she's full attorney mode at this point. I told her my side of the story. I told her my lie. She believed it. I was like, I was in detention. I don't know what they're talking about. Like, if you look at the time, I was at detention the whole time. And then I just walked home with my friend and my friend was like, yeah, yeah, we were at detention together. You know, they didn't believe— they didn't believe a word we said.

They saw the video, they saw me running. And, and their parents, they go back and forth and they agree on like suspension. I was like, there's like 2-day suspension. I was like, sweet. I don't have to go to school. I didn't want to go to school anyways. I hate going to school, you know. I don't, I don't learn anything. I'm not paying attention. So that was my first, like, uh, suspension. And the next one was a lot more personal to me. And to this day, I still believe I'm 100% in the right. My friend, uh, his name was Saul, and good friends growing up, childhood friends. We elementary, middle school, I knew him very well. We were very close friends. And one day I hear from my parents that one of my friends got ran over on 13th Street and it was a hit and run and he was drugged. It's really bad. And to a kid, I didn't believe it. I was like, I'm gonna see him at school tomorrow and then this is all gonna get cleared up. And it wasn't until a week later that he showed up and he's in a wheelchair, immobilized from the neck down, absolutely paralyzed.

Wow.

And, you know, it's, it's the top— the talk of the school. Everyone's talking about it. And I vividly remember going to science class, and I'm behind this one kid talking to his friend about the incident. And he said, and I quote, he, he fucking deserved it.

Oh, really?

I was like, I was like, hey bud, what'd you say? And he repeated it. So I punched him as hard as I could. I didn't even think about it. This was just reaction. I punched him as hard as I could in his face, like, and this was like walking into a classroom where the science teacher was right there. And I— he, he fell to the ground, started crying. I stepped over him and just went to my seat and sat down. And like, I was just so mad that I was like, the only way I can calm down is if I go sit down, or else I'm gonna go back and hurt him some more. But like, I had already did what I wanted because he was on the ground crying. I was like, he learned his lesson. And this one, this one, I was— on paper, yeah, I was wrong. But morally, in my mind, I thought I did everything. You know, I didn't sell my integrity for— like, I didn't sit there and do nothing. Because in my mind, if I would have sat there and just listened and let him disrespect my friend like that, who is now immobilized in a wheelchair from the neck down, and you're insulting him.

Yeah.

But I got— I went back to the principal's office. They know me at this point. I'm the troublemaker, always speaking out of class, out of turn, you know, flirting with the girls. Very generic, uh, high school bully. And at this time, you know, it's, it's a white family, a higher income, higher class, and they, they want to press charges and they want to throw the book at me. And my mom, again, you know, she comes in here, attorney is like, yeah, but what he said was wrong and my son just reacted to what he said. You know, if he never said that, my son would have never would have never punched him in his face. He deserved it. And, and I'm being super nosy. I'm in the hallway and I can hear all this conversation. I remember it because I was there. I'm listening to my mom just, just go back and forth with the principal and like she's screaming at him. She does not care. You know, I'm her little baby boy and in her mind I'm innocent, even though I wasn't the greatest role model. But she's going back and forth and finally they agree on like a week suspension and anger management.

classes. So I didn't have a say in it. I did it. I went home for a week and I was like, sick, I get to just be home and eat the limited food there is and watch TV. Like, I wasn't like super poor to where there was no food. It was just like tortillas, rice, and beans, you know, very generic low-income stuff. So there was food, it just wasn't what I wanted. So what I would do is I'd go to like the the Vons, uh, it's just like your supermarket store, like Giant or whatever. I don't know, you're East Coast, I don't know what's up there, but it's just a supermarket store.

Like a CVS or, yeah, ShopRite, something like that.

Yeah, so I just go in there and steal. And at one point the, the manager saw me and I was stealing like, I was stealing kid brain stuff, you know. I was like, I'm hungry, I'm gonna go steal some candy, I'm gonna go steal the biggest chocolate bar. because that's going to fill me up the most with nuts in it, you know, the big Hershey's with the nuts. And I was like, yeah, that's going to give me the most amount of fulfillment. So, well, one day she catches me and she's like, why do you always come in here and steal just chocolate bars? And I was like, because I'm hungry. And she's like, oh. She's like, why don't you steal actual food? And I was like, why would I do that? I was like, I'm hungry. I'm gonna eat the chocolate. That's what I want to eat. And she's like, I know you come in here and steal. I know that every time you walk in. I don't care enough. I don't get paid enough to stop you. But if you want food, just take the actual food. It's more beneficial. And she's like, I'm gonna look the other way, but you do you, essentially is what she told me.

And unfortunately, I was like, okay, I could just take whatever I want now. So I went back and just like started taking random magazines like that I didn't need and like just all this like gum that I wasn't supposed to have in school. It was just like routine at that point. I'd go in there in the morning, grab a gum, and sometimes I'd pay for it just, just even at the scales a little bit if I had, uh, money from like, uh, helping my dad out. But a lot of times I would just take it because it was free and there was no consequences to my actions. And I vividly remember buying gum one time and the principal to the school was behind me. He's like, you're not supposed to have that. I was like, I was like, And you're not supposed to talk to me outside of school. Fuck off. And he just looked at— he looked at me confused. He's like, he's like, why are you so disrespectful? I was like, you disrespected me first. Don't talk to me. But, but just the ego part of it, uh, just from that, that like a middle school age is where I really developed that.

Like, I, I have to be bigger and better and stronger and I have to prove myself. Hey guys, this episode is sponsored by Cash App. I use it, I love it, I really do enjoy it. I've had Cash App probably for like, like 4 or 5 years now. And it's great. I love the interface, super simple, super easy to use. It's incredible. And they— you can go and buy— you can buy Bitcoin with it now. Yeah, that's cool, right? You know what I'm saying? Is Bitcoin complicated? Do people just think it is? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? If you've been curious about Bitcoin but been a little bit, um, a little bit feeling like it was unapproachable, Cash App makes it easy. Uh, you could set up automatic purchases with zero fees or buy larger amounts also with zero fees. Start smaller, go bigger. It's designed to be simple either way, and I can attest to it. Cash App is very simple, very easy to use. I really do love the interface. Uh, you guys should check it out please and help support the show. For a limited time, new customers can get $10 added to their balance.

Just use the code BITCOIN10 when you sign up. And don't forget this part: send at least $5 to a friend in the first 2 weeks.

Terms apply.

Cash App is a financial service platform, not a bank. Bank services provided by Cash App bank partners. Bitcoin services provided by Block Inc. brand. For additional information, see the Bitcoin disclosures at cash.app/legal/podcast. For $10 added to your balance, if you want it now, Bitcoin 10, and you can send $5 to a friend. Check it out, Bitcoin 10. The link is in the description. Thank you, Cash App, for supporting the show. I actually use the product and I love it. Thanks, guys. Enjoy.

If upgrading your full sleep setup has been on the list for a while, GhostBed's 4th of July sale is the time to actually do it. Right now you can get $250 off mattress bundles, which means you can add cooling pillows, cooling sheets, or an adjustable base and still come out well ahead of what you'd pay anywhere else. And as a Team House listener, you get an extra 10% off on top of that using the code HOUSE. GhostBed is a family-owned company with more than 20 years of mattress-making experience. Their background is in manufacturing, so every product in their lineup is built with the same focus on materials and construction rather than marketing spend and inflated markups. Every GhostBed mattress is built with cooling from the ground up and their ProCore support layer, which reinforces the center of the mattress where your body puts the most weight. Don't take it from me, they've got more than 100,000 positive reviews from people who made the switch and didn't look back. Mattresses are made in the USA and Canada and come with a 101-night sleep trial, fast and free shipping, and a warranty up to 25 years, twice the industry standard.

Not sure where to start? Head to ghostbed.com/house and take their mattress quiz to find the right mattress, then build from there. Go to ghostbed.com/house and use the promo code HOUSE at checkout. That's ghostbed.com/house, promo code house. Some exclusions apply. See site for details. Wasn't there one, one incident where, uh, your buddy stole something too and he was like pretty dumb about it and he got both of you caught?

Yeah. Yeah. This was, I wanna say it was like, uh, right before I went to high school. So 8th grade and we're, we're at the shopping mall and I know shopping malls are way more secure than like your generic, you know, no camera stores. At this point, I was very seasoned in the art of stealing, you know. I've done it enough times to where, you know, you just walk past it, grab it, slip it in your pocket. You don't make eye contact with them, they don't make eye contact with you, they're not going to notice. So I went in there with— I had money, I had $20. I went in there for headphones. I, I wanted to be able to listen to like this, to music on like this old, super old computer that was a hand-me-down to us. But, uh, it was just that childhood age of playing video games and stuff, and I was like, I just want to listen to music. And I asked my dad, I was like, hey, can I have $20? I want to buy some headphones. He's like, yeah, sure, uh, here you go. And cool, uh, I'm gonna go to the mall tomorrow, let him know where I am and all that.

And 3 of my friends, uh, we decided to go together. I was like, hey, I'm gonna go to the mall after school, you guys want to come? Like, oh yeah, sure. I was like, I just want to I just want to buy some headphones and that's it. You know, I'm not really looking for shopping around. And when we get there, we're all hungry. We're kids. We don't think about— we don't— we're not planning for being hungry and stuff. And my friend's like, oh, he ordered some food. And he's like, oh man, I'm short. Can I borrow $10? I was like, sure, here, here's, here's the $20. And, and then I didn't have enough money for the headphones I had. You know, I had $10 left because he spent $10 of my dollars. And I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna steal it. Who's gonna stop me? And in my mind, I came up with my whole plan. You know, I'm gonna slip it in my pocket. Uh, this place usually has the, the higher-end security where they'll wait for you outside to, you know, justify— you break the plane of stealing, you have to cross the barrier of the door.

So I knew that. I knew that if there was people outside, they were waiting for us and I was going to run. But we get in there and that was my plan before I even got into the store. was if there's someone outside waiting for us, I'm gonna take off running and they can only chase me to the end of the, the mall property. You know, they can't chase me past that because, uh, I was very analytical. I looked into their rules and regulations. So I knew, I knew what the boundaries were. And I told my friend that and he's like, oh, okay, sweet. This is gonna be my first time stealing. I was like, okay. I was like, I'm very good at this. Just don't be obvious. I was like, we'll split up and you go steal whatever you want and I'll go steal whatever I want. And I walked around, found some headphones. It was $19.99. $19.99. It's important for down the road. And my friend, he found like a game that he wanted to steal and he— super obvious. Immediately red flag. I knew that they were onto us because he was like ducking in alleys.

He was looking around. He was making eye contact with the cashier.

Oh, no.

And I see the security, you know, doing this little routine of walking past us without trying to look obvious. And I was like, they're onto us, bro. We're gonna have to run when we get out. And for whatever reason, when we get to the door, I'm ready to run. You know, I'm already like leaning towards— I'm getting in my running, running phase. And at this time I was fast. I was a fast kid. You know, I was running like 5-minute miles. And as soon as I see the 2 securities, there's 2 massive white pillars on the entrance to Sears. That's, that's where we were stealing from in the mall. And the, the 2 dudes come around the side and my— I looked at my friend, I was like, let's run. And he's like, he grabs me, he grabs me by the wrist and he's like, how about we stay? And by that point, the 2 dudes are already grabbing us. And I was like, fuck.

I like the run plan better myself.

Yeah, I was like, they're not going to chase us that far. And if they chase us, we're faster, we're going to get away. Like, it was 2 fat security guards, you know, they're gonna get tired before we do. We were young kids that had infinite amount of energy. But, but they grabbed us and I was like— and they're walking us back to their little security office. I was like, why didn't you run, man? He's like, honestly, I got scared. He's like, I panicked, I froze. I was like, whatever. Now we— now we're stuck here. Uh, they call the cops, the cops show up, they call our parents. His mom is looking at me like I'm the criminal. I was like— she was like glaring at me. I was like, he's the reason we got caught. It wasn't up to me. If it was up to me, we'd be home. Uh, but then my mom shows up after his parents show up, and his parents take him, and, uh, he gets whatever charges. And we go our separate ways after this. I don't, I don't talk to him after that. But when my mom shows up, police are there, and I'm catching a charge because what I stole had a value of $20.19. Or like whatever taxes was.

And for it to be an actual crime, you had to break the plane of $20. So if they would have charged me for the $19.99 value, they couldn't— I wouldn't have had to go to the things I had to. I had to do community service. I had to do juvenile court. But it was all because it was with taxes, it was over $20. And I just found that so hypocritical. But I get my talking to, I get home, I get spanked, you know, very generic childhood trauma stuff. And then I had to go do this jury duty. I had no idea what a court system is at this age. Uh, I walk in, I'm wearing your oversized white t-shirt, Dickie pants, looking the way I— the way your typical gangster looks. And it was a jury of white people. Every one of them was white. I was like, I'm guilty. I don't know, whatever the max punishment is, I'm gonna get it. And they go through the whole trial, they let me speak my piece, and I was like, yeah, yeah, I stole it. I was there, you know. I wasn't like trying to avoid the question.

I was like, well, I was like, and but I stole it because I used the money that I had to buy for it, you know, buy my friend food and didn't care. There was, there was no reasoning. Uh, I got max, max, max time, max community service, max amount of jury duty. And it was like just juvenile jury duty. I don't remember how many times it was. I want to say between 5 and 10. But every time I'd go in there, I'd just argue with them. And it was because it was people like me, people that looked exactly like me were the ones being tried. And the jury would be like, oh yeah, he's guilty. I was like, yeah, but why are we giving him the max amount? Why are we recommending the max amount of time, you know. He already— he's already having to spend time. His parents have to bring him here. Why are we saying that he's guilty before we get all the facts? And I didn't really understand, like, the whole court system at this time, you know. It was just very generic kid brain. I, I relate to this person.

We should let him go. Like, there was no more logic. Like, yeah, there was the charges and all that, and it was, like, very, like, petty stuff, you know. Stole candy bar. They pushed someone. And they got charged for assault, stuff like that. And I was like, it's not that serious. I punch people in their faces and I didn't catch a charge. And they're like, yeah, well, that's wrong, blah, blah, blah. And I did my jury duty and like the first 2 times I was super argumentative. I was like, I'm not agreeing with this. I'm a— it's going to be a hung jury. But I stayed there so long that eventually I had to like submit, you know, I had to give in to whatever the group wanted. And then after those 2 times, like, all right, I'll just shut the fuck up and listen. I'm not— I'm just going to go with the flow. I'm— it's going to drag this out. I get to go home sooner. if I don't argue with them. So I did that. And then I had community service where I lived, where the computer room, rec room, whatever you want to call it.

And there was a volunteer lady that was super chill. She, she, she would open the place up when she didn't have to. She stayed there longer for us, you know, really cared about— like, she wasn't paid to do it. She just volunteered. And unfortunately, she was too nice. I took advantage of the situation. I, I asked her, you know, I was like, hey, I got community service. I explained the whole story. She's like, oh no, that's totally reasonable. Give me your paper. I'll sign off on all your hours. I had like, I wanna say it was like 50 hours of community service and she just signed them off. She's like, make sure you put separate dates on it though. That way they know you came on separate di— days and don't turn it in until like a week later.

Damn.

She's a professional.

Has it together.

Oh yeah. She gave me the whole structure, the whole layout. She's like, just wait till this day and then you'll turn it in. That way they can, They can see that you did this, this amount of hours every day. I was like, okay. And she's like, don't worry about it. You know, you don't have to clean up in here. You just come in here and have fun. Like, we'd go in there and play like RuneScape. I don't know if you're familiar with the game.

No, I don't think I played it, but I've heard of it.

World of Warcraft was similar, you know. Yeah, yeah, generic video game. Go in there and play with my friends for like— she'd— it was supposed to be open for half an hour, and every time she'd leave it open. Upwards of an hour, minimum an hour. And she's just like, I just care about you guys, you know, you guys need those outlets to be creative. Kids would go in there, make crafts. Some kids would just go in there just to talk to her because, you know, it was a parent that listened. And most of us in those situations don't have that. But I get that community service done with, and that, that was the, the last of my troublemaking in middle school. But then we move on to high school and I'm still this egotistical, I'll let you ask questions if you have any.

No, no, I mean, yeah, it sounds like when you got into high school, like the legal problems really began, especially with your older brother.

Yeah, yeah, it wasn't towards, so I went to 2 high schools. We lived in Section A and early on I was still a troublemaker, you know, just seeking that attention, arguing with teachers. failing, failing school on purpose because I just didn't want to, you know. I didn't, I didn't care to prove myself with grades, you know. I just wanted to do bare minimum. I didn't want to do homework at home. I did all my homework in the next class. And it was just, I didn't, I didn't want to spend energy and time on things I didn't care about. Like, I knew for a fact I was never going to go to college just because sitting in a classroom was so boring to me. But the biggest place where I'd get— where I'd like, uh, have too much freedom is like math class, because I'm really good at math and I could finish the work really quick because that's what they'd ask of me. And then I could just go and start flirting with girls, start messing with my friends, etc. And that would get me in trouble a lot. I'll get to what you're asking, but there's a couple stories in here that are—

Yeah.

That I remember vividly. So I learned this fancy trick where the era of YouTube taught me if you tie fishing line, people can't see that. And I honed these skills in, in middle school. I tie just 50-pound test fishing line. I was a fisherman growing up, so there was fishing line laying around. So I did one strand. And I thought that— I thought it would snap. I thought, I thought if someone ran into it, you know, they'd catch it and the line would snap. And I tested it with people walking on the street next to the Section A housing. And so some people clipped it, you know, they did your generic bump into it and it was like, oh, duck under it, whatever. And it wasn't until— I felt bad on this one. It was this biker. Mind you, he's in the wrong. He's driving on the sidewalk. It wasn't my fault, 100%. He's driving on the sidewalk and he's cooking, you know, he's going as fast as he could— he can. And he didn't see the zipline, obviously. And it catches him, clotheslines him by the neck.

God.

Boom, falls backwards. And I'm hiding on the roof of our 2-story Section 8 housing. I just climb on the side of like a a porch and get up top. So I— that was my vantage point. That's where I did most of my misbehaving, just because no one can find me up there. And there was so many ways to get off that, like, if someone came from one way, you could get off the other side. But I'm sitting up there and I see this guy get clotheslined, and I was like, oh shit, that actually worked. And I, I go to school and I was like, hey guys, I got some fishing line. Where do you guys want to put it up to trip people? And being kids, you know, we didn't think this through. We're like, well, we always hang out in front, so it won't be suspicious if we're always— we're in the same spot. So let's put it somewhere where we can see it from our hangout spot. I was like, okay. I was like, well, the stairs would probably be a good choice. You know, there's the railing there. We'll just tie it to the railing.

We'll clip someone's legs and they'll fall and it'll be funny. Unfortunately, it was the principal that was our next victim. He's walking with his coffee. He has his binder. He has his computer. He's all happy saying good morning to everyone, and he's looking around talking to the kids. He does not see the zipline or the, the fishing line, and he clips it, faceplants onto the— onto a step, like face first. Coffee goes everywhere, his papers go everywhere, and we just walk away. We didn't want any part of it. We left. Uh, they did their investigation. They couldn't figure out who it was. The cameras weren't, uh, clear enough for them to see. See us in that spot. But I got away with it, so I was like, I'm gonna keep doing this. This is fun and entertaining to me, you know. I, I had built up resentment towards the principal because I'd get random backpack checks. I, I get it. I know what— I knew what I looked like. Yeah, I'd run the backpack check myself, if I'm being completely honest. But I, I— it was just one of their policies, you know. Oh, we're, we're free to check everyone's backpack, but we only check Hispanic backpacks because I had a lot of white friends.

And I was like, how many times has your backpack been checked, brother? He's like, none. I was like, you're carrying weed most of the time. How's your backpack never checked? He's like, he's like, because I'm white. It's called white privilege. I was like, I was like, I'm white too then. I was like, how do I get this privilege? We just went back and forth and we were close friends. So like, that's how, that's how we bantered, you know. I was like, man, this is some bullshit, you know. I'm always being targeted just because of my skin color. So it just gave me more reason to, to like, uh, to hit back in a way, you know. And my way, in my— at this, at this time, I started to learn that I hurt you way more with my words than actions. And it wasn't— it was really bad on one of my math teachers, and this one I actually feel bad about. This was like, uh, 10th grade, and my math teacher, you know, she, she cared way too much about me, and I didn't care. You know, I'd go in there and just cause mayhem.

I'd— she'd give me a handout, you know, it takes half an hour to do this, I do it in like 5. I turn it in, just being super cocky. I'm done. I was like, what do you want me to do now? And she's like, just go sit in your desk and be quiet, go draw or something. I was like, I'm bored, what else can I do? And she's like, just go to your desk, please. I got paperwork to grade and stuff. And I'd go back to my desk and immediately start flirting with girls and distracting people. And she's like, can you go outside? I was like, I can if you want me to. She's like, go outside. I was like, all right. She'd go out there and talk to me. I was like, all right, I'll chill. I'll chill for the rest of the— I'll chill for the rest of today. And This was a common occurrence, you know. I, I do my paperwork, I start throwing stuff at people, start getting my pencils stuck on the ceiling, just anything to keep my mind busy. And she just put up with it too much. And eventually she's like, you know, I can't keep doing this with you.

I'm gonna send you to the principal's office and you're just gonna keep getting in trouble. I was like, I don't care. I, I live in the principal's office. I know him by— I call him by his first name. And she sends me to Principal Waltz's office the first time, and I'm sitting there a little nervous. And like the attendance ladies, there's 2 of them at the front desk, and they're talking to me like, what are you doing here? I don't know, I was talking back like I always do. And they're like, why do you think you do that? I was like, I don't know, I don't care either. I was like, it's entertaining to me, I get bored. And they're like, oh, you just don't get enough attention at home. And I took offense to it. I was like, well, this is why you're fat and ugly. Like, just immediately counter-insult, just because if you're gonna hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you right back. And she just— they both looked at me sideways. They're like, the mouth on this kid, like, what's wrong with him? And the principal calls me in. He's like, oh yeah, it's, it's you again.

You know, you got to stop speaking out in class. You get detention, and then from there we're gonna have to suspend you, blah blah blah. And then eventually you're probably going to get expelled if you keep up this attitude. I was like, oh, you're just, you're just, you're just being racist, you know. In my mind, if I made it a race thing, they'd leave me alone. It didn't work, but I tried. I was like, you're just doing this because I'm Mexican, you know. And he's like, no, I'm doing this because you're, you're doing this and this is the outcome, you know. You knowingly disrupt the class and this is the punishment. I was like, nah, this is just because I'm Mexican and you hate Mexicans. He's like, go back to your— go back to your next period. They just held me there for that period, and I kept doing it. I didn't stop, you know. It was too entertaining for me, and I just— it gave me the attention I was seeking. It wasn't until one day I was just— I was having a bad day. I don't even know why. And the teacher wants to be her level-headed self and wants to talk to me, and I was like, can you send me to the office today?

I really don't want to argue with you. And she's like, she's like, what's the matter? Let's go outside and talk about it. I was like— and at this point she's super pregnant, she's like 8 months pregnant, and she just keeps trying to talk me down. I was like, please just send me to the office. I am going to say something really stupid and you're going to regret it. Not me, you are going to regret it. And she's like, I, I, I promise you there's nothing you can say that can hurt me, blah blah blah. And I look her in her eyes and I tell her, send me to the principal's office before your fucking baby dies. And like, that was just like the meanest thing I could think of at the time. And she breaks down, starts crying, and I was like, fuck, I'm in trouble already. I'm just gonna start walking to the principal's office. I walk myself in there, like, knowing that, that, that was the outcome. So I'm sitting there, I get to the office, they're like, what are you doing here? I was like, I'm gonna be in trouble soon, just wait.

And the 2 attendance ladies know me at this point, and it takes a while for like security to locate me, even though I was just sitting there waiting for them. Uh, principal talks to the teacher and, and he explains to me, you know, he's like, you really hurt her. You know, she was, she was crying for a really long time and I just didn't care. You know, I was like, I gave you the warning. I told you exactly what I was gonna do and you just ignored me. So you deserved it. And it wasn't until later— I didn't even get in trouble for this. That was the crazy part. I didn't get suspended. I didn't get expelled. I got like one day of detention. And detention was entertaining for me because I'd get to hang out with my friends. That were all there with me. But there wasn't really a major consequence to that, you know, it was a verbal talking to. And at this point, I'd been talked to too many times for me to care, you know. I got into trouble and I was already on the defensive, so I just tuned it out.

But, uh, that time they would call home a lot of the times, and I would just run home and answer the phone and just pretend like I was my mom or dad. And that's how I got away with a lot of the things I got away with. was they'd be talking to me and I just talk in Spanish and they wouldn't know the difference. You know, I could make my voice deeper in Spanish. They don't know that my dad, who is always working— and they'd send letters and I just forged the letters because who's going to know? No, I was, I was my dad's signature and my brother was my mom's signature because he could get it more accurate. So like anytime they'd send disciplinary stuff, they're like, oh, you have to get this signed by your parents. Like, okay. I was so egotistical. One time they gave me a letter, I turned it in the same day. Like, I hadn't even gotten home yet to get it signed. I signed it and turned it back in. They're like, how'd you get this signed? I was like, oh, my mom stopped by to sign that.

I called her and they're like, okay, thank you. It was like, I lied straight to your face. But it's just, it just like, in my mind, it just made it so easy to lie to people and just to lie people, lie to people. to get what I wanted, you know, just to be left alone. And it was at this time that my brother started to getting— start getting into like, uh, selling drugs, uh, gangs, stuff like that. And for me, it was a positive, you know, we finally had money, you know, I was able to, uh— we— at this time, my parents were looking from moving on from Section 8 since they had that extra income of drug money. And Oh, they're looking at houses. We're going touring houses. And in my mind, it didn't seem real. I was like, there's no way we can afford this house. We've been poor our whole lives, you know. We live in Section 8. I knew numbers, so I asked them about the finances. So I understood that it wasn't feasible. And at the time, rent was cheap in California. It was like $1,200, $1,300. And like, uh, more expensive houses, bigger houses were like $2,000, which is crazy to think about.

Yeah.

And I'm talking like Escondido, California, if, if you like San Diego County for generic speaking. But, uh, we look at a couple houses and they were around $150K, and that was like very generic, you know, fixer-upper, has a couple problems. And then we look at this really nice house, it's like $210K. It was way more than they could afford. But they had the drug money and they, they wanted the nicer things. This, this house had a pool, it had your, your picket fence, it had garden space, it had, it had everything we never had, as any of us ever had, you know, my parents, us as kids. And they jump, you know, they, they get the new homeowner feeling, they, they jump at it, they put, they put a bid in, they overbid on it. They get the house, and for a while everything's working out since they have that, that income from my brother. You know, he, he's financially paying for pretty much everything at this point. You know, new truck.

He's making it rain.

Oh yeah. And it, it's, it's, it works until it doesn't. So, so we move into this house. You know, I, I had to switch schools because it's a new district and I switched schools and for whatever reason, you know, I'm no longer causing chaos as much. You know, I'm more leveled out. I've— I got all that out of the way. When we switched, I was more into like, you know, chasing girls and just trying to get laid essentially. But when we moved there, it's, it's way nicer. You got your, your super friendly neighbors that wave at you. And I was like, why are these people so nice around here? And I just didn't understand that, like, uh, people were friendlier if you move to a nicer place. But my brother kept selling, and like all good things come to an end eventually, he gets caught. Uh, first time he gets caught, it's, it's a lot. It's, it's pounds of crystal meth, pounds of marijuana. And he's, he's a smart dude, and he put money aside for attorneys and all that. He goes to jail. He does— I want to say it was like 2 months.

It wasn't a very long time. He gets out like immediately. And California is a 3-strike rule where you could get in trouble 3 times, and on the 3rd time you're pretty much doing life. So he's like, oh well, I got another chance, you know, I'm gonna keep selling, and then if I get caught again, you know, that's my 2nd strike, and then after that I'll stop. And, and they're on to him, you know, they're, they're tapping his phones, and, you know, your phone's getting too hot, obviously someone's listening to it. Um, there's random cars sitting outside our house, unmarked, unmarked police cars of all cars. It says police on the back of it, you know, the police interceptors. Like, can you at least be a little more discreet? We know you're here. I'd go up to them and knock and just being super nosy and they wouldn't roll down their windows and they just drive off. But I was just doing it to piss them off at that point. And eventually they get enough evidence to— they don't even have enough evidence to get a search warrant. They, they do what is known as a knock and announce, you know, they're gonna get consent from the homeowner.

Yeah, yeah. Do you guys mind if I take a look around here? So this is where, this is where it gets super shady, just from a police standpoint, you know. Uh, I did, uh, just for context, uh, 4 years in Ranger Regiment, then 4 years as a police officer. But looking back now, they had a full SWAT team, unmarked. No one— there was no police in uniform. Everyone was like just in civilian clothes with their vests on and badges. And I was with my brother, my cousin. We were in my room. It was a converted garage and it had a sliding door that backed up to the pool. And I see just random people showing up to our back door, which wasn't an uncommon occurrence because my brother sold drugs from there. So— random people showing up was normal. But these people had guns and that wasn't normal. Uh, but I thought we were getting like robbed or something. But then I see the badges and they're knocking on the door, you know, let us in, police. So my brother opens the door, they, they, they do police callouts, you know, they grab all of us, they take us to our front lawn.

And at the same time when I'm walking past, I look to my left and they're The other officers are probably walking in talking to my parents, and I, I just overhear them say, you know, uh, well, you have to sign this or else you could get deported. And, and that's all I heard until we get thrown on our front porch or our front grass, and they're keeping us face down in the dirt. And mind you, I'm just a kid. I am not that— I was still in high school. Sorry, my headset's going too high.

It's all right.

But they put us face dirt, uh, face first in the grass, and we're there for a really long time, half an hour to an hour of them just like keeping us there. I, I get up and just sit, uh, crisscross applesauce, and one guy comes back outside, he's like, oh no, you gotta, you gotta get back on the ground. I was like, why? He's like, oh, it's just, it's a control thing. I was like, okay. So I get back on the ground and I'm sitting there the whole time, I'm just mad. I was like, there's no reason they should, they should be in our house right now. And then, uh, they bring my dad out and I'm just asking them questions in Spanish, you know. I was like, why'd you let them in? He's like, oh, they threatened to deport us, you know. They said if I didn't give them consent to search the house, they, they were gonna arrest me and, uh, take me back to Mexico. I was like, well, no, knowing what I know now, that's illegal.

You can't do that.

Uh, but at the time we didn't know better, you know. We were We just knew what we were told, and they, they tear up our house, absolutely destroy it, you know, putting holes in walls, undoing like ceiling tiles and digging random holes. And the one that hurts me personally the most is they dug up one of, uh, my dad's— One of my dad's trees that was from Mexico. He brought over the seed. It was his childhood tree, you know, this is a fruit he grew up on. And they dug it out and he, he tried to replant it and then ended up dying. You know, how do you put a value on something like that? You don't. There was way too much emotional value to that. But they tore up the house, which, whatever, you know, we, we can, we can fix holes in walls, we can put this stuff, we can put the clothes back into all the drawers and stuff. They search everything. And my brother was smart. He didn't keep drugs inside the house. He was smarter than that. He kept it outside. Uh, but they didn't find— they didn't find the actual stash.

They found like an 8-ball of crystal meth. And they're like, oh, he was on probation at the time. They're like, oh, you're lucky, you know, we're just gonna cut you a verbal warning. We're not gonna charge you with it. And looking back now, it was because they didn't have enough legal standing for what they did, you know. But I didn't know that at the time. And I, I, I was just so angry as a kid, you know. I started looking into laws and stuff. I started reading case law at this young age just from that incident. You know, I was like, there's no way this, this should happen to people. You know, this— we moved here. I am an American. I was born in America. I should not be treated like this. It is, it is inhumane in my mind. So I started looking into it and I, I called the police, the local police department. I was like, hey, on this day, I just want to know who raided our house. And they're like, what are you talking about? No one— there was no, uh, police calls in that area. Try, try the sheriff's office.

Okay, so I call over to the sheriff's office. They're like, yeah, we don't have any incidents at your address, period. And they're like, try state police. Okay, so I tried state police and same thing, you know. They're like, oh yeah, no, we haven't responded to any calls there. We haven't done any, any work there. I was like, well then who the fuck raided us? Uh, No one, apparently. Like, uh, uh, I, I had never figured it out, you know. I went back again even after being a cop trying to get, uh, just because it's— I remember the date, or I asked my parents for the date or whatever, and it just, it didn't exist, you know. They didn't give him any paperwork. They didn't give him copies of anything. They, they just took the drugs and left, and they left him with a verbal warning, you know, cutting him a break. But from there on, it's just like cops are mean for no reason, you know. At this point, I've been Terry stopped and I've been, you know, frisked for no reason. I've outran a couple cops just because I wasn't doing anything illegal. I just thought it was entertaining when they told me, hey, stop, and I ran.

Like, what are you gonna do, chase me? And if you catch me, you're gonna search me and I'm gonna have nothing on me. I don't care. I was looking into laws at this point, so. I was just, I was just so mad where I wanted to catch them in a lie, you know. I wanted to hurt them the same way they hurt me. But I, I chill out, I get through school, and it wasn't until, um, my high school year that I actually started trying. And I was bad. I was failing so many classes. I was, I was way, way too much into girls. Like, you know, I was too busy flirting with girls to pay attention. Or I just wouldn't do the homework. I wouldn't do the assignments. Or if I did them, I was purposely missing stuff. Uh, I remember taking a math test and I was like, I'm gonna get 0% on it. I told the teacher that. She's like, no, you're not. She's like, that's impossible. You can guess on every one of them and you'll still get like 25%. I was like, watch. So she gives me the test and I go out of my way to purposely choose every wrong answer.

And on a white piece of paper, I'm putting the correct answers just because, I don't know, I thought it was funny. And I hand it in and I leave. The next day, she holds me after class. She's like, why'd you get 0%? I was like, I told you I would. I was like, I'm a man of my word. I do what I'm going to say. And she's like, you can get them all right, can't you? And I reached in my backpack, I give her the piece of paper. I was like, yeah, here they are. And she's like, why? Why'd you do that? I was like, I don't know, I thought it was funny. And she's like, I'm gonna give you 100% on it, but don't do that again. And like, after that, like, you know, I felt the respect. It was mutual, you know. At that point, it was like, she did something for me she didn't have to, so I didn't feel the need to lash out as much. It was It was there where like I learned that, you know, there's actually some people that actually have your best interest at heart. You know, not everyone's out to get me.

As I, uh, I listen to these stories, uh, I can see that you were the perfect candidate for either the Marine Corps or the Ranger Regiment. It was going to be one of the two.

Yeah. And it was at this time where all the ROTC nerds are talking and, you know, they're like, oh, I'm gonna go do these, these cool things overseas. I'm gonna go join the infantry, what I know now. But in my mind, I was like very illiterate, you know, I didn't pay attention in school. I heard infirmary and I thought infirmary was infantry. I didn't know the difference. I didn't care to. I didn't ask these guys about what they were signing up for. Like, I had friends that were in ROTC and they just talked about the military like, oh, it's this lifesaver. So like, once I got Graduation day, I grind. I make up like 10 classes on my last year. I had zero period and I had to stay after school. I did online classes at home just so I could barely graduate. I graduated with like a solid 2-point-something. Like, it was not good. But then I started doing landscaping for like a month with my dad and I hate it. I don't want to do it. I don't want to be in the sun. This is hard work. I don't like this hard labor stuff.

So in my mind, the only thing I could think of was, well, everyone talks about the military as this super cool thing. So that's when I started training. I was running, I was running like marathons every other day. I was running like 13 miles just casually because like in my mind, it was like, if I'm gonna be in the military, I have to be the best. And I would just run until I was exhausted and then I'd have to get back. Like, And, and someone, one of my like gym teachers told me this, if you never, if you never walk, it never gets hard. So even if like you're just slowly jogging, I was like, well, then I'm just never gonna walk. I'm just gonna pretend like I'm just moving my arms a lot. I'm moving at the pace of a walk, but in my mind, you know, I'm jogging. And I just kept that mentality anytime I ran. And I would always shoot for like a faster score, you know, I'd I'd do a landmark and I'd be like, all right, let's see how long it takes me. I left the house at this time.

Let's see how fast I could be back. And that's how I would challenge myself. And I was like, well, this is getting easy. I need to, I need to go further. It started with like 1 or 2 miles. You know, I'd run out a mile, come back a mile, and I'd look it up on Google Maps just to see the distance. So I knew, like, because I knew you had to run 2 miles for the PT test. So I was like, I'm gonna be very fast at the 2 miles, but I'm still gonna run more that way. If I have to, you know, I'll be ready for it. Just trying to be overprepared because I, I asked some former military uncle, he's like, oh yeah, just, just be a good runner. If you can run, you'll be okay. So it wasn't until like 2 or 3 months after high school where it's like, I have this path of I can go start a business with my father and I can run it. I know I can. I am smart enough to do that. But that's not what I want to do. I want to get out of this small town.

This is not where I want to be. And it was a lot to do with the way my parents raised me. You know, ever since a kid, they're telling me, you know, you hit 18, you got to get out of the house. You know, we can't feed you, etc. I was like, okay, I'll leave. I'll find my way out. And that's the only path I saw. So I go to the Marine station and unfortunately on this day, I had a very hot date after, like, I was in a hurry. And I go into the Marine station and these guys are very egotistical. Like, they're like, oh, are you even good enough to be a Marine? I was like, yeah, what do you need me to do? They're like, do some— do X amount of push-ups. Like, okay, I could do that. I've been practicing for this. I could do 100 push-ups in whatever allotted time it was, 2 minutes or whatever. And I did them and they're like, oh, well, I bet you can't do pull-ups. I do like 20 pull-ups and I'm staring them down the whole time. I was like, this is light work.

And they're like, they're like, oh yeah, you got what it takes to be a Marine. Just get on this computer and take this ASVAB or take this test. And I didn't know, I didn't know that, that, that test was going to determine what jobs I had available. I had a date. I had to be somewhere. So I chose C for every one of them. And like, okay, you failed that miserably. It was just like a mock test where they got the answers right away. And they're like, you need to come back. You need to study and come back when you're better prepared. Uh, we recommend going to the library, checking out an ASVAB book. I was like, whatever, I'm gonna go on my date. So I go meet up with my girlfriend at the time and whatever, didn't think anything of it. Uh, the next day I go back, I was like, well, I'm— I'll redo the ASVAB. And I go in there and I was like, what job am I gonna get? And they're like, well, it's not up to you, you know, we, we go based off the needs of the Marine, the Marine, or the needs of the Navy.

And I was like, What's that mean? They're like, well, you can recommend to be X, Y, and Z, but at the end of the day, it's, it's the Marine that's going to determine where you end up. I was like, I don't want that. I, I want to do what I signed up for. So I walk out and I walk right next door to the Army recruiting. And on this day, I didn't have anywhere to be, so I took my time. I, I talked to the recruiter and they're, they're talking way too much. I stopped listening after so many words. And I do the ASVAB and he, he comes back with a binder, like literally this big. I scored like a 111 on the GT. And he's like, you have so many jobs available for you, like, uh, what are you trying to do? I was like, I don't know, man, I just want to have a future for after the military, and the military sets you up for that. He's like, oh well, if you want that, uh, 88 Mike or this nuclear something— I don't even remember what the title was, I just remember hearing nuclear.

I was like, I was like, what do you do? He's like, well, the truck driver, you just drive trucks, but it's kind of dangerous. You know, you could get shot at and stuff. I was like, I don't want that. I don't want to get shot at. And he's like, well, you scored high enough. I was like, what about infirmary? And at the time I had more of an accent and he automatically assumed I said infantry. I thought I was going to be a medic. And he's, he's talking about, he's like, oh yeah, infantry. We have this thing called an Option 40. And he's like, I was like, what's that? He's like, oh, you get to do airborne. And he keeps talking. I hear airborne. I was like, ooh, jumping out of planes sounds awesome. That's all I needed to hear. I didn't hear anything else he said. He explained what a Ranger was. I was like, and at the end of it, once I'd done, once I was done daydreaming, I asked him, I was like, were you a Ranger? He's like, oh no, me? I could never. I was like, I could do it.

I'll take that one. So I get an Option 40. Ranger Assessment Selection. It changed from RIP from your generation, but I get that. And I didn't know what I was signing up for. It wasn't until like, uh, until like you do like your PT test and you get to talk to other people that are in the recruitment process. And they're asking me, I was like, what'd you sign up for? I was like, infirmary. They're like, you're a medic? I was like, I think so. I was like, I got an Option 40, what's that mean? And they explained it. they explained it a little better, and I still didn't really understand. I just knew that I wanted to jump out of airplanes because it sounded cool, but I just didn't really care, you know. I was like— they're like, oh, you signed up for infantry, bro. I was like, what's that? What's the difference between that and the medic? They're like, you get to deploy, you get to go to all these cool places. Uh, I was like, sick. I was like, that sounds even better than what I signed up for. So, uh, this whole time, you know, I'm maxing PT tests just because I'm holding myself to the highest standard.

You know, they're like, oh, you only need to get whatever, 80%. And I was like, but why would I do that when I could get 100%? Not knowing some people are just not capable of reaching that standard and just egotistical. So every time I go there, you know, I'm the first one to run back after the 2 miles. I'm staring the recruiter in his face being like, ah yeah, this is light work. I could do this all day. And they do their little hazing sessions. I was like, this is cute. Is this what the military is like? This is going to be easy. And the whole time they're like, you're not gonna make it, you're not gonna make it past, uh, past basic. I was like, watch me. And on the day I'm supposed to ship out, I haven't told anyone. No one knows about this. No one knows I signed up for the military. No one knows I've been going to the PT test. Uh, I haven't told anyone because, you know, it was around this time that I got my heart broken by, by my at-the-time girlfriend. I was like, you know what, I hate this place.

I never want to come back here ever again. And so like, it just all lined up to where on the day I shipped out to MEPS, I asked my mom and dad, I was like, can you guys give me a ride to the recruiting station? And they're like, why? They're like, you want to join the military? I was like, I'll tell you when we get there. So we get there and they pull up to the very front on the no parking zone. I was like, ah, because I had some bags with me. I was like, oh, I'm gonna go do something. I'll tell you when I get there. I had my bags packed and everything. I was ready to go. And once I got out the car, I look at my mom and my dad and I was like, I'm leaving for the military today. And they just start breaking down crying. They're like, why are you leaving us? We need you here. We need the support. Because like I was doing like landscaping, you know, I was helping with my brothers and sisters and stuff. I was like, you guys told me I had to get out at 18.

I'm just doing exactly what you guys told me.

Yeah.

I leave today. I leave today and I'm not, I'm not coming back until I get leave. And I did. I got on the MEPS and I had a— I had another girlfriend. This one, this one broke my heart. It was a military girlfriend. She was also enlisting at the same time. And it was just that young, young dumb love where like, like for 2 months we were talking and we'd go on dates and stuff and we're like, oh, we'll send each other letters, you know, we'll keep in touch, we'll make this work. Et cetera. So we get to basic training and I don't know if you have any questions, I'll let you shoot.

No. I mean, you write in your memoir that is unpublished thus far. I mean, you write about some very common typical experiences that I think we all had when we joined the military. You talk about the bus ride from the airport to Fort Benning and it's deathly quiet. Everyone pretending they're not afraid of what's about to happen. And 30th AG, the holding area, holding facility before you go to basic. I mean, why don't you finish the story about your Army girlfriend and then we'll jump forward to RASP?

Yeah, so this one hurt me. So I don't know how you, if you know how letters work, they take a really long time to get to the person. And if you break up with someone, you're still sending a couple more letters before they've broken up with you. So we sent like 2 or 3 letters back and forth that were like positive. And in basic training, she found someone else and I get the Dear John letter. And at this point I had sent like a letter like once a week. So there was like 6 or 7, there was a couple letters that were like still like, I love you, you know, we're gonna work it out, we're gonna figure this out. And once I get that letter, you know, I go full rage mode, all caps. I was like, I hate you. You're a terrible person. You're the reason. Like, It just fueled the rage I already had inside of me. It was just, it was just more motivation for me. And it was just like, well, I had to prove her wrong too now. Like, it just gave me more fuel. But, uh, basic is where I learned what Option 40 was, you know, at the time.

Someone finally explained it to me. I finally took the time to actually listen. And it was like, oh, you get to go do airborne. And most people fail that. I was like, That couldn't be me. I've never failed anything in my life. Just very egotistical. And I, I, they explained to me, you do Airborne, you go to Ranger Assessment Selection, and then you get to the Ranger Regiment. I was like, when do I become a Ranger? They're like, well, once you pass the assessment selection. I was like, cool. I was like, how long is that? They told me the time, like a suite. So what, I just, it's just a time thing. I just stay here and wait.

Cool.

And I do, I pass, uh, I think I was like honor grad in basic training. I get a piece of paper for it. It's not that impressive, but, uh, I get that and like the PT award. I had like a 320-something. I, I maxed just about every PT test except one where they hazed us right before the PT test, and I still got like, I still, I still passed. But it was like, in my mind, I failed because I didn't max it, even though we were like destroyed the day before and like right before we took the test. And I was just so egotistical. You know how like you get the, the pace guy, the, the instructor who's pacing you on the run? I'd run next to him and I didn't know you could pass him. I, I didn't know you could pass the pace man until like a couple months in, 'cause I would just run right behind him 'cause I didn't want to get in trouble by passing him. And one day, once I like finally get comfortable in the environment, I'm talking to him while he's dying. He's like trying his hardest to run as fast as he can.

And I was like, do you mind if I go ahead? Go ahead. And he just looks at me. He's like, you can run faster? I was like, yeah, I've been running at your pace this whole time. And he's like, yeah, go ahead. So I just take off in like a sprint. And that's when like I actually started like trying harder than like— Because I Because I was told just be a gray man, like, you know, just, just blend into the background. I was like, why would I do that? If I want to be the best, I got to be better than the guy in front of me. And it was always a competition between me and my good friend that also ended up being a mortar, a short little guy, did track and field his whole life, and he was just fast. He was like 4-foot-nothing and quick for no reason. I was like, you should not be able to run this quick. Your legs are not as long as mine. But it was always between him and I on who was running faster. But I just kept that mentality of, you know, this sucks, but there's someone hurting more.

You know, just looking back and seeing everyone else struggle fueled me, as messed up as that sounds. But just seeing someone suffer more than me, it was like, oh, they're gonna quit before me. I'm not quitting today. I'll wait for them to quit. And sometimes they'd quit, and a lot of times they wouldn't. And it's like, well, if they're not quitting, I'm not quitting either. I'll quit till that person quits. And if that person quit, I'll be like, I'll quit till that person quits. You know, someone in my mind who was weaker than me. But, but that got me through airborne school. Uh, airborne school was honestly not that hard. The thing I hated most was being in a harness and having to pee so bad that like you're just holding it for so long. And then you get in trouble for when you land immediately just peeing. It's like, I had to pee for like 8 hours. What do you want from me?

Yeah.

But that's like the most memorable thing. And just like the constant running and cadence is like, this is, this is not hard. You know, I've been, I've been preparing for this run, run scenario this whole time. But what, what I saw is fear got people the most. You know, people were quitting before they even started. And it's like, why? It's not even hard yet.

Did you, you must have seen that at Wrath also, right? That, you know, when Even before you start the course, there are people just like standing in formation and they VW, but it's just fear of the unknown, really.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you were there, you, you held the, your bags over your head and someone came out there and screamed at you and they said they'd be right back and they lied to you. They were not right back. You stand there for hours just waiting for them to come back and Like, I would cheat. I don't care. Like, they'd say, like, keep it off your head. I'm putting it on my head. I don't care. You're not, you're not checking in on me. I am going to do whatever I can to make this as easy as possible.

I just remember they would, they would put us in the front leaning rest on that basketball court when it was like blazing hot in the summer. So your hands are getting all burned and you're like doing this, pussing out. And then the instructor will come in and they'll see you squirming and like, okay, you get in the iron chair. And to this day, like, when I go to like a CrossFit gym or something and they, they have you do the iron chair, it's like a fucking exercise. I'm like, this is bullshit torture. This is what—

this is—

this was a corrective measure in the military. What the hell is this?

Yeah, what got me through it was like just focusing on something else that hurt. Like when you're like in that front leaning rest, like for us it was on the rocks and like the rocks start hurting. So I just like shifted my hands like back and forth just to like hurt somewhere else. And I was like, all right, this doesn't hurt as much anymore. Let me focus on something else that's hurting. But for that mentality is really what I would focus on when I was struggling. You know, it's like, what else is hurting? What's hurting less? And it just helped me get my mind off the one thing that was burning. And it was in airborne school that I learned that I could just fake it. I could just fake being tired. So I'd be there just shaking and then they'd come relieve me. They'd make me do another exercise. I was like, well, I'm just gonna do that until I get bored of it and then I'm gonna fake that too. So I just did that until like once I like, I would never be fully exhausted because, you know, then they push you past that.

So like I was like, I'm always gonna have something in reserves. They're never gonna know the whole story. But, but that, that helped me a lot. And, uh, uh, for whatever reason, I was never caught. And it, I guess I was just that convincing on my, shaking like, ah, I can't do it anymore. But I was never caught on it, so I just kept doing it. But like, RASP wasn't that hard for me because of that, because I was cheating. I was not going 100% every time because I didn't see the purpose behind it. Because if I went— I went 100% like the first week, and I was like, why am I doing this to myself? They're not, they're not watching me, you know. There's other people in the front-leaning rest position that are just laying on the ground. I was like, I'mma join them. They seem way more comfortable than what we're doing. But yeah, that got through RAS very— I personally didn't think it was hard. And it was just because I was cutting corners everywhere I saw corners. You know, obviously there's some things where you just have to do them, you know, obstacle courses, PT tests.

At the time, I was running like a 30-minute 5-mile. So I was very quick on my feet. And, you know, you get to the end of it and you get to put in your picks on where you want to go. I put first bet, second bet, third bet in that order. I wanted to go to the beach. I did not want to go to Washington State where it rained all the time. That's all I ever heard was like, oh, it rains all the time there. You know, suicide rate is super high. I was like, I don't want that. That sounds like a terrible time. And then third bet, you know, it's really close to the flagpole. They're very by the book, you know, and it's like, I don't want that either. And, you know, first bat's usually the— they're the chill ones everyone's talking good about. I was like, I want to be first bat. But unfortunately, every mortar went to second bat. Every— all the guys I, I knew, we all ended up going to second bat. And it was pretty cool because it was a group of like 8 of us. It was a big group of mortars that went together.

And I don't know if you got questions, shoot them.

Yeah, man.

I'm just going to regiment.

So yeah, tell us about what it was like showing up at regiment and especially like being a new guy in mortar section, I think is particularly horrifying as I recall.

Yeah, it was not pretty. I thought I made it at this point. I thought people were going to chill the fuck out for once. And no, I get there. I get there and, you know, I have, I have this big black duffel bag that has all my personal belongings. You know, I picked up a lot of things along the way because I didn't have money before and now I did. So I had this massive, like, suitcase-style bag and I had 2 other duffel bags. And we get dropped off at the front headquarters, uh, the main building reception essentially. And we're just standing there in parade dress waiting for whoever. I don't know who. And I vividly remember just standing there like, just like, all these guys look so angry. Who pissed these guys off? Everyone I looked at would just mean mug me. And naturally I'm a happy person, so I try to smile at them and they're like, they'd just be like, what the fuck you looking at? I was like, oh shit, I'm not allowed to smile here. So I just stopped smiling. It's like, all right, they don't want me to smile.

And, and it was at that time someone said tab check and I had no idea what a tab check was. So I was like, so I started looking around. I was like, I don't see a tab anywhere. And the guy's like, start doing push-ups. I was like, okay. So I started doing push-ups, you know, normal level push-ups. He's like, have you been to Ranger School? I was like, I don't think so, no. He's like, elevate your fucking feet. I was like, okay. So I put them on my bag and he's like, have you been to mountains? That's not high enough. I was like, what do you want me to do? There's nothing else around. So like, there's like a decorative like mortar tube. out front. So I put my feet on that and he started screaming at me again. He's like, that's not high enough, put them higher. So I was like, well, there's nothing else to put my feet on, so I'm just gonna put them against the wall and work my way up. And at this point I'm pretty much doing like straight vertical push-ups. And I, I kept going until everyone else stopped.

And he's like, how many did you do? I was like, I don't know, I wasn't counting. He's like, you're supposed to do 25 and one for the Airborne Ranger in the sky. I was like, Okay. I was like, do you want me to start over? And he's like, no, just recover. Don't look at me. I was like, okay. So I go back to parade dress and I was like, that guy was mean. I don't, I don't like that guy. It turns out it was one of the mortar team leaders, but I didn't know that at the time. And one of the mortar guys, you get your, your typical hazing ritual, you know, get screamed at. grab your bags, get to the barracks, unpack your shit, and then meet back up at regiment and get your hazing ritual out of the way. For whatever reason, they decided against it. I don't know why. They're just like, oh, we're busy today. We're not going to do it today. We'll do it tomorrow. I was like, okay, what do you want me to do? They're like, oh, uh, just check in tomorrow. I was like, sweet, I get a day off.

But the next day wasn't, wasn't, wasn't so nice. They were mean to me, believe it or not.

I can also see, I can see you being a bit of a leadership challenge also, bringing some of your criminal mastermind skills to Ranger Battalion.

Yeah, I was always, I always liked the challenge of like egoing people, you know, it's, I am gonna outperform you. I don't care how big or how strong you think you are. I'm gonna try to outrun you. I am gonna outpace you. And I vividly remember going on a gas mask run and I am trying my fucking hardest. Like, I cannot breathe with this gas mask on. And one of my team leaders that I know is slower than me, I know for a fact I am faster than him just based off PT tests. I am faster than him by a lot. You know, I was running like 11-minute 2 miles and he's, he's not struggling. And I'm so confused for the longest time. Like, we would run around the airfield, which was 5 miles. And he did it like it was nothing. And I was, I was dying. I was right behind him, but I was hurting, you know. I was, I was gasping for air and I was struggling. I just couldn't understand how he did it. Well, come to find out years later, when he got out the military, he hollowed out his canister so he could breathe normally.

And meanwhile, I'm breathing through a filter. And I was like, no wonder you were just so much faster than me. I'm over here just fighting for my life and you're just casually jogging. But, but I handed that down to the next guy so he can use it on the next generation. But, but yeah, I was, I was always just egoing everyone. It was like, you, you can try to hurt me, but there's nothing— like, I know it's going to end at some point, and you're going to get bored before I do. And they learned, my leadership learned real quick that it didn't work, that it didn't work for me, you know, like, uh, they put me with more of father figures instead of people that were gonna train you, corrective action you, because I was very smart. You know, you told me how to do something, I'd memorize it. I'd go back to my barracks room and study it. That way I don't make the same mistake twice. And I very rarely got in trouble because of that. You know, I studied max distances, ranges, all that, because, you know, you get quizzed on it.

Airborne Ranger in the sky was— something that kind of I didn't understand. You know, they made me pick one and then they're like, remember these facts about it. And obviously I'm autistic, so I remembered exactly what they told me. They're like, remember the name, remember what beer he likes, and remember his family. I was like, okay, that's easy. I can remember that. I already remembered it just by you telling me it. And that was it. And I was questioned a couple of times. And then after that, it just, it just fell off, you know? And I was blessed in the sense where I never lost anyone close, super close to me. Yeah, I lost a couple of people I knew, but I never, never got to experience, luckily, that part of it, you know, where you lost your best friend or whatever. And I just didn't understand why, why that tradition fell off. And like, from in my generation, you know, even I, when I became a team leader, we didn't really enforce it. You know, you had to have an Airborne Ranger in the sky. you did an extra pushup for him, but that was pretty much it.

It might have been because the war was kind of bleeding off. And, you know, thankfully, I mean, it's a good thing we weren't losing as many people.

Yeah. I honestly don't know, but I think that's one thing where like you forget the history part of it. It just repeats itself.

Yeah. I mean, I agree. When I first got to battalion, My airborne Ranger in the sky was Roy Brown, who was a Ranger that died in Panama in '89.

Yeah, I had a— I forget the rank, but he was a mortar in 1st Battalion, Lance. But like, I didn't know much about him. You know, one of my squad leaders was the 1st Battalion guy that knew him personally. And I tried to pry just because, you know, you can only find so much information online. And I I'd go out drinking with, with, uh, my squad leader, and I'd go out to his house, work on cars, do man stuff, you know, get drunk and work on cars. But, but he'd never talk about it, you know. I, I asked him, you know, I was like, can you tell me more? Like, I'm actually curious, you know. I want to know, like, what kind of person he was, etc. He's like, nah, man, it hurts too much to talk about. He's like, I just avoid it, to be honest. I was like, all right, I won't ask you again. And it was like, well, why aren't we talking about it, you know, if it hurts you that much?

Right.

Obviously you need help. But, but that was the mentality. And it's crazy to me because I didn't start drinking until after Ranger School. If you want, I'll cover Ranger School. But I mean, did you go—

you got deployed to Afghanistan first, didn't you?

Correct.

Tell us about what year did you get deployed to Afghanistan?

I want to say it was very early on, 2014, I believe. I have my flag here actually. Sorry, I wrote them on my flag so I wouldn't forget. This is the flag. Afghanistan in 2015.

2015, cool. Okay, so where in Afghanistan did you get deployed and what was sort of the mission at that time?

Yeah, it was a gentleman's deployment. I don't know if you know where Scorpion is, but it was a training mission more than anything. Like we were just training the partner forces. We spun up for QRF a couple of times, but we didn't actually get to do anything.

This is when you guys were working with the KKA?

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah. Sorry. Just for timeline-wise, you know, you fly into Erbil and from there you get your briefing, you know?

No, you flew into Kabul or Bagram.

Kabul. Yeah, yeah, sorry, they all blend in together.

I know, I know they do.

But we flew there and then, you know, you're there for a couple days and that was the first time I— we got mortared, you know, and I got to see R2-D2 on steroids in action. I forget what the actual name is, the C-RAM, I think it's what it's called. Oh yeah, yeah. But we're there and all these sirens start going off and They briefed us already, you know, you gotta go to one of the shelters if you hear these sirens. And me being the noisy kid I was, you know, I was like, I don't want to go to a shelter. I want to see the round explode. So I stayed outside the bunker waiting for this round to explode. And all I hear is the, the C-RAM, R2-D2 is what it— because he looks like R2-D2. I just see the tracer of rounds, you know, the brrr through the air and it shoots around out of the sky. And I was like, that was cool. What was that? And I asked my PL and he explains it to me. He's like, yeah, there's like a bunch of rounds in between those tracers. So it's just shooting a wall of lead at the mortar rounds.

I was like, that's cool. We can't die here then if we have that thing protecting us. Like, I truly believe like there, there was no way in the world where there was no world where we actually lost because we trained so hard. But we get our briefing to go to wherever. And this is where I started seeing some of like the shadier side of stuff. Uh, we're, we're a convoy. We're attached to, uh, just a platoon of infantrymen, you know. And I was— as a mortar, you know, you're always with the weapons squad. And we're in the Humvee and we're test firing the .50 cals before we leave the base. And I remember seeing the antenna getting shot off. I was there. I saw the sparks hit the, hit the antenna.

Wow.

And they shot it. It was just dangling. And I guess no one, no one else saw it or no one else wanted to admit it. I don't know. I truly don't. But we do our convoy and we take contact. We take contact. I truly don't know. Someone said we got shot at. I don't believe it. But, but one of our windows and not in the vehicle I was in was one of the other vehicles took a round to a window. And that antenna was part of the evidence they used to get their CIBs. And I was talking to my team leader and he's like, we can put in for it, but personally, I'm not going to. You know, I don't agree with that. I want to earn it. You know, if I get a CIB, I want it to be something that I did, you know, something that was respectable. So we didn't put in for CIBs that deployment. And the PL, you know, all the nerds got their CIBs based off, you know, being mortared in a safe base and getting, taking contact. But like, we didn't shoot back. We didn't, we didn't really do much.

There was, it was a very boring deployment. Like, honestly, I thought I was going to be kicking in doors, you know, I was going to be dropping rounds on people's heads. That's what I signed up for. That's what I was, that's what I've been training to do. And You know, they talked it up to where, you know, your QRF, you might get spun up at some point and you might have to do, you might have to drop rounds. I was a 60 team at that time. I was just an ammo bearer, you know.

Do you want to real quick just explain for people watching this, if they're not familiar, that you guys have the 60, the 81, and the 120, kind of like what those systems are?

Yeah. So The 60mm mortar system, you could just Google it, look at a picture. There's 2 versions of it. There's a handheld version and it has a way more limited range. I want to say it's like 1,300. Don't quote me on the numbers, but it's not that far. And that's just handheld. That's because if you shoot any higher charge, you're going to break your hand. So then there's a conventional version, which is just more weight they have to carry. It has a bipod and a base plate that are bigger and support the recoil of the rounds. with a heavier charge. A charge is just like gunpowder, makes the round go further. But that's what I was. I was on the 60 team for that deployment. And then there's what's called an 81mm mortar system. The millimeter is just the size of the round. So 60mm, 81, and 120s are the 3 the US uses. And I've been a part of all of them. But for this deployment, I was just an ammo bearer for a 60 team. And we just trained. We trained the partner forces. We got to watch some tanks shoot other tanks, like just in training scenarios.

We got spun up for QRF. We got on the plane and we flew around and we never touched ground. So it was more of a just a peaceful mission. You know, we went on runs, we climbed mountains. It was honestly like for military, that was some of the, the best times I had, was I was left to my own devices, you know. No one was micromanaging me, no one was screaming at me. I got to talk to like ODA teams, other, other operators that were working out in the gym, and what they did sounded cool too. I was like, that sounds like more fun. And like, uh, ODA teams, uh, I don't know what, what they call themselves now, but they were going by Gablestone at the time.

Mm-hmm.

They'd be walking through and I was like, those guys are so cool. They don't have to wear anything. What are they— what do they do? They're like, oh, they're contractors. I was like, what's that? And they explained like, you know, contractors versus Delta. And I was like, which one's which? They're like, we don't know. I was like, what do you mean you don't know? Don't they work for us? They're like, yes and no. They kind of just do their own thing. I was like, well, that looks like fun. I want to do that instead. But that deployment, you know, I got to do a lot of like just working out and just Just practicing, you know, you get unlimited ammo and you get to just, just be there. You know, you get to enjoy the time you're there, especially on like a deployment where it's just maintaining peace rather than being the front line. We were QRF, you know, we, they never really needed us because we never got spun up.

And when you got home, you're a little bit saltier now and they sent you off to Ranger School.

Yeah, yeah. And I was the only mortar that deployed, uh, that year. Uh, there was only one slot for deployment and they picked me, uh, probably because I was one of the tryhards, you know. I was always trying to prove everyone else that— like, I was trying to prove it more to myself that I'm better than everyone else, but in turn prove to everyone else that I'm better than them. But yeah, they, uh— my team leader told me I was gonna go to Ranger School when I got back. He's like, he's gonna make it happen. I was like, okay. I was like, I was like, I don't want to go, but like, can you like just talking, give me some advice? He's like, yeah, quit tomorrow. I was like, what do you mean quit tomorrow? He's like, well, whenever you feel like quitting, just, just tell yourself you'll quit tomorrow. And then when you wake up tomorrow, tell yourself the same thing. I was like, I was like, that doesn't make sense. He's like, no, no, you'll understand when you get there. I was like, whatever. So I get, I get, I run into a lot of problems because of my mouth.

And at the time, I didn't know I had a lot of things I wasn't— like, I didn't know I had like a lot of, uh, issues I haven't dealt with, like, uh, sleep apnea, uh, PTSD, anxiety, depression. Uh, there wasn't a label for it yet. I was just very young. And I go to pre-Ranger, and while I'm there, you know, I'm still being myself, ego through the fucking roof, challenging people. It's like, I There were— I vividly remember getting into arguments with the first bat mortars, me being a little bit more salty. You know, I deployed and they were undeployed. It's like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. I'm better than you. You know, second bat's the best bat. Just, just your generic egotistical arguments. And I took it a step further. You know, I called them out and I was like, we're at Colt Range. And for those of you that don't know, it's just a suck fest. They make you walk forever. You do push-ups. You set up a triangle where you just— you're essentially camping on steroids and they're hurting your feelings the whole time. But when I'm out there, I had enough.

You know, I'm mad that I'm here. I'm mad that these guys are poking me all the time. And finally, I go up to this kid and I was like, if you want to fight me, bro, I'll meet you at the patrol base afterwards. Like, full ego. Like, I'm ready to throw hands with this. And He didn't show up. He didn't want to fight. Uh, I honestly don't remember that part too clearly.

Show up at the PB tonight is a pretty good line though.

Yeah, I don't remember, but I, I— what I do remember is that my, my, uh, squad after Piers hated me because of it, just because I was always trying to ego everyone, talking shit to everyone. And one thing that did me in was, uh, I had sleep I couldn't sleep. Like, uh, I slept so heavily that I couldn't be woken up for one of my night shifts. And finally I woke up and they're like, bro, you had fire guard. I was like, why didn't you wake me up? They're like, we tried, you wouldn't wake up. I was like, well, I'll just go do it now then. And I stayed up with the next group and they're like, well, you didn't do it with your actual group, so, uh, you know, you're a piece of shit because of it. I was like, whatever, man, I don't care. Your words can't hurt me. You're a bitch. Fuck you. But then I get, I get peered out. We go to peers and I'm bottom of the totem pole and I'm making my argument at this point. You know, I'm very cop-brained because I've been studying like just laws and stuff, rules and regulations.

I had them all memorized and it was a losing argument for me. There was no world where I won that just because they had that, that evidence of, you know, You're trying to fight people. You're you're arguing with instructors. You're missing time hacks by sleeping in. It was like I couldn't wake up. It wasn't like they're like, oh, you woke up and then you just rolled over. It's like I don't know what to tell you, man. I I don't remember that. And I vividly remember talking to the douchebag in charge, and we're having a one-on-one. He's like he's just going off on me. He's like, oh, you're a piece of shit. You're not made for regiment. You're never gonna. You're never going to be a Ranger. You're going to go straight back. You're going to be a nobody. I was like, okay. I was like, what are my options? He's like, it's not up to you. It's up to your command sergeant major. You're lucky he's in town. I'm gonna talk to him tonight. I was like, okay, I'll go back to the barracks and hang out. So like, that class left, you know, it was just me in the empty barracks all by myself, fucking miserable, so lonely in there, just contemplating life.

It's like, how did I fail this? You know, I studied patrol bases. I studied tactics. I studied for Ranger School. I memorized the whole fucking book, and like down to the snares. I, I studied it so hard just because I wanted to be that prepared. But, uh, he talks to my Command Sergeant Major, and, uh, he comes in, in my lonely barracks where I'm just by myself sitting on my bunk, and like the rest of the bunks are completely empty. It is so quiet in there. And, you know, I stand up, go to parade rest, and I'm just like, How's it going, Command Sergeant Major? And he's like, sit down, just, just talk to me. And I tell him exactly what happened. He's like, that's why they want to send you back? I was like, yeah, what'd they tell you? I was like, what's your side of the story? He's like, it's, it's a lot more different than what you said, but I, I think you should have another chance. Uh, you're just gonna stay here and recycle. And this was pre-Ranger. This wasn't even Ranger School yet. I had lost, I lost £20 already from that pre-Ranger class.

And so I had to do it again. I had to do pre-Ranger again. And I want to name drop this asshole so bad, but, uh, the guy in charge— I won't name drop him because I should let it go. I don't want to. I'm not ready to let it go yet just because I'm still mad about it. But he put me in charge, you know. I was the, the, the platoon leader. I was, I was the guy that was getting in trouble. I was the dude that had to stand there while the rest of the class got hazed just to build that resentment. But I just kept my head down. I sucked it up. You know, I was like, there's, there's no winning these arguments. I just have to do exactly what they ask of me. And the second time is always easier just because you know exactly what's going to happen.

Sure.

So I do. I keep my head down. I help people where I can. You know, it's like, I already did this. You know, this is what we're going to do. These are the objectives we're hitting tonight. I know exactly what we're doing. we should approach this way, in this way. And this was when, like, leadership changed and I was in leadership roles. It was like, I know, well, I know the best way to hit this because I've done it. And I ended up graduating that time, go to, unfortunately, go to Ranger School. And at this point, you know, I've lost like £25. It is insane. You send me to go to Ranger School and then you starve me before I get starved. It makes zero sense in my mind. But I'll let you ask the question.

Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm not here to throw any shade because I had an extended deployment at Ranger School myself. I was at Vaughn's Platoon out there at Camp Darby long enough. I thought they were going to rename it Murphy's Platoon. But you had an extended stay in Ranger School as well, didn't you?

Sure did. Yeah, it didn't stop for me there. So you get to Darby and I'm still like egotistical, you know, I'm still trying to do like the most, you know, I'm asking like, Like, what do you guys need from me? Like, my problem was I wasn't asking the correct way. I was more of like, you're wrong and here's why. And you talk to a fresh PL who's fresh out of IBOLIC and they've never been talked to the way I'm talking to them ever.

Yeah.

You know, childhood, military career. No, no one is as raw as a Ranger from regiment. And it's just like, you're wrong. you got to do it this way or else we're going to fucking walk through a swamp we don't have to walk through. And they're like, no, you just do the terrain model. Like, if that's what you guys want me to do, that's what I'll do. I'll go, I'll go build a terrain model. I'll go play with sand. Sure. And that's where they put me a lot of times was the terrain model, just because they didn't want to listen to me in the planning phase unless I was in the leadership role. But like, it was for good intentions, you know? It was like, I don't want to suck more. I don't want to go through a river when there's a bridge. And they're like, yeah, no, but they're going to be expecting that. I was like, I don't care, we'll, we'll fight them back, whatever. And they're like, no, we got to go through the hardest part, that way they don't expect it. And even the cadre would be like, you don't have to do that, you don't have to make this hard.

They'd be like, you don't have to make this harder, believe it or not, we have to go through the river too.

Yeah.

He's like, you guys are gonna do— so, but like, uh, I ended up getting peered out again and This time I'm sitting in front of the first sergeant, and I've been— I've done this before. I'm experienced. I'm weathered now. I know exactly what I need to say to not get in trouble. And I'm just putting up my counterargument. I was like, first sergeant, respectfully, these people are a bunch of bitches. They're— I hurt their emotions, and that's the reason I got peered out. He just stared at me for a second, and he looks at the 4 officers that are in there, and he's like, What is your guys' side? And they all go through and they're like, yeah, well, he screams at us. He's always trying to, like, take control of everything. And, like, he doesn't respect the rank structure.

There is no rank structure.

Yeah, that's exactly what he said. He's like, stop. He's like, everyone is equal here. You guys are all fucking nobodies. And he looks at me, he's like, get the fuck out of here. Go, go back. You're going, you're going to, you're going to the next phase. I was like, sick. And I don't know if you— when you peer out, there's 2 groups, you know, there's, there's the— or there's 3 groups: the people recycling, the people that quit, and the people going to the next phase. And everyone was expecting me to go to the recycling group, so I started walking towards them, and then like I did a half-right face and then walked to the boys. And they're all just happy to see me. They're like, oh yes, we thought you got peered out. I thought that was the end for you. And that's the only phase I made it, I made it straight through. I get to Mountains. Ah, yeah, Mountains. It wasn't even my fault. Uh, Mountains was just— it was raining way too much. It was, it was freezing in the morning where like your sleeping bag is crusted over, and then it rained on like my graded patrols.

So I ended up just failing patrols. So, and it was in like, uh, it was in Mountains where I had an ingrown toenail massively. It was like a It was hurt. Like, I was— my socks were bleeding through and stuff. And I went for like— I want to say it was like 2 weeks before I actually asked for help. And like, just because it hurt so bad, like, I couldn't endure the pain anymore. And I finally asked the medic. I was like, can you take a look at my toenail? It hurts. And he's like, sure. And he like takes my sock off. It's all bloody and stuff. And he's like, you have an ingrown toenail. You know that, right? I was like, yeah, I know. I just don't want to get recycled. He's like, They're not going to recycle you. They're going to cut it out and send you right back. I was like, yeah, but it's gonna— I might have to go back to base and I'm probably gonna get recycled. I don't want to get recycled. I'd rather just suck it up for this phase. And he's like, no, you can't. I have to send you back.

So like, they send me back and they cut it out. It's, it's literally the size of a quarter ingrown into my foot. And they're like, they're like, you're just walking with this? I was like, yeah, it fucking hurts. And, and they're like, you know you didn't have to? I was like, no, I thought if I came over here I'd get kicked out. They sent me right back. They're like, I get back to the group and it wasn't the big deal I made it out to be. They bandaged me up, they gave me like, uh, um, things for to keep it from getting infected, so I just had to apply that. But like, I was just sucking for the love of the sport at that point, you know, there was no reason behind it. But yeah, I ended up failing mountains in That was the first time, you know, I actually got to refit. And I didn't know that you could just eat as much as you want. So in these refit phases, I was grabbing everything, you know, I was stacking my plate as high as I could. And they're like, doesn't it hurt your stomach?

I was like, yeah, but I'm gonna need it for the next phase. And like, you know, when you recycle, you have a million times more energy than anyone else because you, you've been getting fed, you know, you didn't go through Darby, you didn't have that. you didn't have that reset. So the second time I go through mountains, I'm just, I'm just way more aware of everything going on. And I got lucky where we did a lot of patrols that we, we've done before. I did this ambush. I know exactly how the layout is, so we're gonna do it exactly how I say, or else we're, we're gonna fail this miserably. And luckily, this new group listened a little more, and, and they were, they were a lot more respectful because it wasn't it wasn't LT heavy, you know, it was a lot of enlisted guys. So they were more willing to listen. And this is where I met a good friend that I lost contact with. He was a Command Sergeant Major. He was 50 years old in JSOC. I was like, what are you doing this for?

That's wild.

I was like, no one wants— yeah, he was super old and like he struggled a lot. And we were Ranger buddies. We were always next to each other. just by design, I guess. And I saw him struggling and I was like, I was like, what hurts? He's like, bro, everything. I'm old, you know, this, this isn't for me. I was like, how can I help you? He's like, he's like, honestly, if you take like the ropes and like, uh, the machine gun when I have it, I really appreciate it. I was like, of course, man. Like, I, I'll do anything to make this easier for you. And that's what I did, you know. I took the machine gun from him, I took his ropes, I took the special equipment every time he had it. And he, he, he like loved me for it, you know, just that mutual respect part of it. And he's like, when, when we get outta here, if you ever need a favor, you know, I work for like the legal side of the, the military. You ever need a favor, you, you got one. I was like, I don't know.

Yeah, that's, that's a friend you need, uh, Eduardo.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely with the way I was going. But, but I met him there and, uh, we get through mountains and then we get split up. We go to different platoons. So I, I didn't see him again after that. And I, I graduated that phase just because I did the same objective that I failed. So like, I, I had already gone over it in my head so many times. It was like, what could I have done better? And obviously, you know, don't go through the water, you know, set up— don't set up an ambush from the low ground, obviously. Don't shoot uphill, go around, take the high ground. Just very generic. I was way too tired. to come up with an actual plan. But, uh, second time, you know, I think I got peered out again just because I was the new guy, but they didn't care. It was more of a, you got peered out because you're the, you're the, you're the import, you know, you didn't grow up with this group of people. And I get to, uh, Swamps, uh, and Believe it or not, I recycled Swamps. I recycled Swamps because, uh, during one of my patrols, someone lost their NODs in the water, and it was because it wasn't tied down.

Wasn't even my fault. It wasn't up to me.

You're responsible for everything the patrol does or fails to do.

Yep, I sure was. So that's the reason I recycled that phase. That phase was honestly cool. Like, I like, like, the talent show they did where, like, you got to go look at snakes and stuff. Oh, when they— yeah, they pretend to throw the snake.

Snake at you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I, I, like, at that point I was just like, I lived there, you know. I'd been there for, at this point, close to 8 months. Like, from pre-Ranger to that point, I'd been there for 8 months. I was starving, you know. I was super skinny. I was— I think I had lost like £50 by, by that phase. And, uh, oh no, I didn't even It was part of the reason that I recycled was the NODs, and then I got peered out, so I went to another board. I don't even know if it was the NODs that got me in that. I don't even think that was my patrol, but I know that I, I got in trouble for that for whatever reason. It was like, uh, okay, I think he was in my squad when he lost his NODs, but it wasn't my greater patrol. That's what it was. But I ended up getting peered out that phase too, and It was a lot of the same. It was, it was the way I talked to people. I'm like, you're gonna listen because I am right and you are wrong, and this is why.

So I got cleared out again.

Yeah.

You think I'd learned, but I didn't. And, and at this point, the first sergeant that's sitting there, he, he knows my background. He knows I've been there for way too long. He sees me, he's like, brother, you're starving. You are not going to be able to make it through this next phase. Uh, you're not gonna be able to recycle again. This is it. You, you either pass swamps or you're done. I was like, well, I was like, I can only do the best I can, so I'll stay. He's like, he's like, you should go home. You know, a lot of people make it to this point, and unfortunately it's not for everyone. You should just hang up the hat. You know, you struggled enough. You proved, you proved, you proved to yourself that you could do it. I was like, No, I didn't. I need, I need the, I need the badge. And he's like, well, I know at the end of the day you're gonna stay, but I truly, I truly believe you should go home, you know. I was like, I'm not doing it. But he's like, he's like, but if you fail this phase again, you're done.

I can't, I can't recycle you again. I was like, all right, good enough for me. And I'm walking out, I'm bawling, man. Like, I didn't want to recycle again, especially for peers.

Sure.

It's like, like helping to, like trying to help the best I could. And unfortunately, it was just the way I talked to people that, that got me in trouble. But I did, I did recycle. I did it again. And this time I'm being way more strategic. I was like, well, I'm gonna make 2 to 3 friends, you know, I'm gonna peer the highest at this point. You know, I'm, I'm, we're gonna do the peer triangle and peer triangle, which just means we're like in Ranger School, you make like 2 or 3 friends, you guys peer each other number 1. It's like a graded thing from first to last. And if you're first on like 2 or 3 of your friends, you can never be at the bottom. And that's just the scheme that people do while they're there. And I thought, I thought I did it. You know, I did the phase again. It was easy because I'd done it before. I made sure everyone's thing was tied down double knotted. I checked every single one of them. I wasn't even the platoon leader. I was just checking them because I was traumatized. But no one lost knots, surprisingly.

I made it through and then I got peered out again. So at this point I'm defeated, you know, I'm done. Like I have nothing left. And there wasn't even like a, there wasn't even a peer board. It was just me and the first sergeant. And I was like, you don't have to explain it to me. I was like, I know, I know I'm done. If I'm in this office. I shouldn't be in here. And if I'm in here, there's something wrong. He just looks at me and starts laughing. He's like, nah, I knew you were gonna peer out. He's like, you're good, man. Go get your tab. Get the fuck out of here, bro. I started bawling. Like, yeah.

If they didn't give you your tab, they would have had to deal with you coming back to the school at some point. I mean, it's like, Jesus, get him out of here.

Yeah. So this is where like graduation happens. And at this point, one of my biggest motivators was to prove that guy wrong that told me I wouldn't amount to anything in the pre-ranger.

Yeah.

Yeah. And, and he comes up to me and he's like, oh, I knew you could do it. I always had it in you. I believed in you. And I just looked at him. I was like, can I get in the van and go home? I don't want to talk to you. Like, just, just trying to be as respectful as I can because I know if I say something dumb, it's going to get back to my leadership. But at some point I slipped up and I don't remember what I said. I just remember I insulted him because, like, I was just hurt so bad by, like, him doubting me. It was something along the lines of, like, why the fuck are you lying? You know, you didn't believe in me. You told me I wouldn't amount to shit. Yeah, here I am. I proved you wrong and now you're my friend. Fuck you. It was something along those lines. It wasn't that word for word. It was that disrespectful, but it wasn't that. But I get my tab, you know, I get to fly back finally, starved, got a new chip on my shoulder. Now ego's even higher through the roof.

No one could even look in my direction without getting tab checked. Like, I am hurting everyone because I can now. You got any questions?

Pain instills memory.

Hello everyone, if you're hearing this, uh, you are not a member of the Patreon. You can get your hands on ad-free episodes that come out early, and you can ask us questions, maybe we'll answer them. You can also watch the Team House podcast completely ad-free and early, and you can also watch it live as we interview our guests. Um, and it's the best way to support the channel. So if you can, if you're open to it, you can go to patreon.com/theteamhouse. That link is in the description. We appreciate the supporters and we hope you would consider being one. So it's patreon.com/theteamhouse. Thanks, guys.

Back from Ranger School, freshly minted tab. You're going to be a mortar team leader now and they deploy you to Syria.

Yeah, uh, we do a training cycle. I do a training cycle as a team leader. Um, very generic. I mean, you've heard it hundreds of times, so I won't go over it. But I was a bully. I came up with this, this fun new 500 Fridays. Every Friday I will tab check you until you do 500 push-ups. And it got to a point where I wasn't even tab checking them anymore. I was like, you guys keep each other accountable. Let me know when you guys done 500 push-ups, and if you guys do them early, you could go home. Like, if there's— if it's allotted, I'll send you home. I don't care. But, but, but I was a bully, you know, and it was because, like, that's what I grew up with, you know. That's what I knew, you know. If, like, I took these guys on runs just because I was fast. I knew that that was my domain. I could outrun you. You might be able to outlift me, but I can outrun you all day long. I am not going to give up before you. And one of my first privates, I actually broke him.

I ran him so hard that his liver gave out. Yeah, I don't know how. It wasn't my fault. I was perfectly fine. I was drinking water. I guess he wasn't, but he ended up getting like hospitalized and they gave me a new private. Like, I, I didn't know why, uh, his liver gave out, but I actually— he ended up recovering. I ended up deploying with him to Iraq, but that was down the road. But, uh, we get deployed to Syria and this is new and exciting, you know. No, we haven't been at war. for a really long time. No one knows what it's going to be like. And even for me, like, I was excited to go back and actually get to do what I signed up for. And this deployment, it's fun, but like super traumatizing at the same time, you know. I get to finally do the things I signed up for. We deployed with every weapon system, 60s, 81s, and 120s. We didn't use the 81s at all. We mostly used the 120s. And the '60s, the, the team guys would take those and use them on like, uh, super secret squirrel missions where they just leave us, leave us at the base and go disappear for a little bit.

But that deployment was nice. Uh, we get to undisclosed location, one of the bases, and it is super nice there. Like, I was not expecting to have running water. I was not expecting to have a team room. There's— there's alcohol and there's everything you could ever ask for. There's a private chef. And it's like, what is this? This is not deployment. And we're there for a couple days just getting fitted, you know, getting the local uniforms, all that stuff. Like, just getting situated with like the layout of the battlefield and what our role is there. And, you know, we test fire all our weapons, we outfit our our vehicles, up-armored Range Rovers that are way too heavy, so they blew tires all the time. But first convoy, we drive for a really long time and we're rocking a convoy of like way too many vehicles. And I was like, this is scary. Like, we're in up-armored Range Rovers, I think they are. I don't know what the—

But, uh, yeah, they may have been.

Yeah, but we're in those, and the first time we go out, we blow a tire, and we have run flats, and we do a tactical tire change. I was like, well, we're just sitting ducks out here, aren't we? You know, any one of these tractor-trailers could be a VBIED and we all just die. And it's like, well, I guess if that happens, you know, it's out of my control. But we drive somewhere for like 2 hours and That's when the first time we actually get to drop rounds on people. Well, what we, what we did is, you know, we'd sit back and we'd give the village a 2-day notice of, we're gonna bomb the shit out of this place, get out. If you're not ISIS, we're gonna bomb it. And they had refugee camps set up, so like they had somewhere to go where there was food and water and shelter. And after the 2 days, that's when we started dropping mortar rounds, and we were dropping Over 100 a day. You know, we, we had a, a truck outfitted for just carrying our mortar rounds and those, and the person that drove it.

And those, those 120s are like that, right?

Yeah, they're massive. They're, I don't remember weights because it's so long ago. I got out in 2018, but, but they are heavy. But, uh, we were dropping close to 100 rounds a day and it didn't feel real. You know, it was no different to me than just training. Because I wasn't watching where the rounds were going. And we had ISR, but it just, it just felt like a video game for so long. And we kept doing it, you know, we'd go out for— I want to say it was 5 days out, 2 days back, something along those lines. And it wasn't until like halfway through the deployment where it finally got real to me at some point. After doing it for so long, going through the villages, seeing, seeing all the destruction and stuff, because we we'd bomb the village, send the partner force in, and then we'd go in behind them once, once they deemed it was safe. And obviously, you know, there's still, uh, random IEDs and all that stuff, still, you know, people hiding in tunnels shooting at us. But we were very blessed in the sense where we never saw like direct contact other than like VVIDs, and it was at such a distance that it didn't seem like—

That was, that was, that was intentional, that like you guys were providing a lot of indirect fire because they didn't want American soldiers like in direct combat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like the notable thing for me was, was we were dropping rounds in this and then after we went into the village, there's the backspray of an RPG and like you just see like the silhouette of a body. So what in my mind, you know, what I pictured is a mortar round landed. This guy got scared, pulled, uh, aimed RPG down and pulled the trigger, and then that's why he blew himself up right there. And it was like, oh shit, I, I actually have some part in this. And it was in the same village that some, some 5-year-old kid just screaming at the top of his lungs at me. And at the time, my little brother was the same age, and I just see my little brother and this kid, you know, brown little kid angry at the world. And I was always with the interpreter just because I was the only brown dude. And I guess he gravitated towards me. But we would bullshit a lot and the kid's screaming at me and I tried to ask the dude, what's he saying? But, you know, the— it's so loud with like driving and all that.

He didn't really hear me. So I wait till we get back to the base and I finally talked to him. I was like, you remember that little shit at the corner? What was he screaming at me? And he's like, ah, just your generic propaganda ISIS bullshit. You know, he's going to kill your family. Uh, I was like, what do you mean he's gonna kill my family? What'd I do to him? And he's like, bro, you, you killed his dad last night when you were dropping mortar rounds. I was like, me? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, no, that, that's, that's what he was saying at least. I was like, oh, this is real.

Yeah.

And at that time we had ISR where I got to watch as my rounds that I dropped were lighting up a compound and there was 3 or 4 people running out. And as they were running out, the mortar rounds were striking right where they were and they just vanished. You know, there was nothing left. There was— and it was like, oh, this is real. You know, this is, this is not a game. And from there, I kind of lost, I kind of lost the purpose. You know, I kind of lost the reasoning as to why, why are we doing it? I started being more analytical about it, you know. given the same situation from their point of view, I'd probably be doing the same thing, you know. But at the end of the day, I still had a job to do, so I kept doing my job. And that, that slowly, that's, that's where I saw the shift, you know. That, that deployment is where it's like I started, I started to realize a lot of what we were doing, yes, we're helping, but we're also hurting a lot of people.

Yeah, it's sad in the sense that, I mean, it's one thing if someone is ideologically aligned with ISIS, at least I'm not going to lose any sleep over that. But there were people, as you know, ISIS would come into the village, they'd saw the old man's head off and be like, hey, if you don't join up with us, this is what's going to happen to you. And so you have a lot of 15-year-old kids press-ganged into joining ISIS. And that's sad. That does bother me.

Yeah. And I was just very nosy in the sense where I just gravitated to the Kurds, and I would take the interpreter with me, and I'd be like, can you translate? I just want to ask some questions. And I would just ask very probing questions of like, why did you join this side? And like, why have you been fighting so long? And the Kurds did this thing where they'd fight to a line, and then they wouldn't want to fight past that. You know, that was their boundary. That's their land. They don't want to push into enemy territory. And I was like, why? Why do they always stop here? It's like, we go a little bit further, that's their stronghold, you know? But they would explain it and they're like, bro, we've been at war our whole lives. We don't know anything else, you know? We were born into this. We've been fighting since forever. We don't know another option. It's like, that's sad.

Yeah.

You know, you were born into war, your sons are going to be born into war, and this is just a never-ending cycle. But I had a couple, like, a couple close calls while we were there, you know. Um, we had a VVIP that got really close, um, and I was facing the opposite way from where it was coming, pulling security. And me being the nosy self, I was like, I told my buddy who was manning a machine gun, I was like, I'm gonna go look. And I peeked my head over the berm and At this point, you know, everyone's lighting it up. You got a .50 cal on it. You got a bunch of people shooting at it with small arms. And someone grabs a Javelin. And this is the first time I've seen a Javelin do what it's supposed to do. And I'm just being nosy. I'm just peeking over, just trying to be— just not trying to be involved, but trying to see what's happening. And I see this Javelin absolutely wreck this car, just absolutely turn it to scrap metal. And we drive past it. So like, I actually got to see the aftermath of it and there was nothing left.

It was just like, there's a tire. there was no engine. I was like, that car was moving, there has to be an engine somewhere. It was gone. And it was just so crazy that like the level of explosion that created just from, just from one, one Javelin. It was like at that same base where like, because we'd set up like essentially patrol bases as we went, you know, set up a triangle and we defend that while we're shooting mortar rounds. And it was at that same place that, uh, me and my buddy, we're, we're just sitting there bullshitting because that's what you do when there's nothing going on. And we hear a round whiz right past me. It's like, I, I— the round's here, my buddy's like right here, like barely. Like the round is 2 feet away, my buddy's another 2 feet away, and we're both, we're both stunned. We don't know what just happened. I like, uh, my reaction time was faster where I knew that we got shot at. So I got down and got to the ground, and my buddy was frozen. He just stood there. I threw my kit on, and I told the team leader, I was like, I think we just got shot at.

And at this point, my buddy's catching up, you know, he's like, yeah, we got shot at by someone. And then the team leader verifies, he's talking to the partner forces. And come to find out, one of the partner forces was shooting at a vehicle, and as the vehicle drove in between where we were, he just kept shooting. So he was shooting at us.

Oh shit.

It was the partner forces shooting at us. And I was just lucky, you know. I just, you know, 2 steps to the right and that's my face. I wasn't wearing a helmet. I wasn't wearing any protective gear. But, but that, that incident is what, like, uh, just— I just accepted death, you know. I was just like, if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. I have no control over it, you know. Uh, we got mortared a couple times where it was Super close. That's how I got my combat infantry badge on paper. Um, this was down the road on, I want to say, like 3/4 of the way through the deployment. We're sitting at a FOB, you know, and at this point it's routine. There's nothing new. Um, we're finding targets on ISR, we're, we're leveling them out with mortars, and it's just casual. It's not even, it's not even a stressful job anymore. It's like, here's your target. I don't— I'm sure you've seen the videos that I post. Like, it's not like I'm having a good time while I'm there. Um, but while, while we're at this, uh, place, uh, we get the first incoming round.

And at this point, I've never, I've never heard— I've never been on the opposite end of mortars or artillery, so I didn't know what it sounded like. And to me, it just sounded like an air asset flying overhead way too low. like the whistling sound, and it impacts. It's super far away. It's like 500 meters away. And it's like, okay, that was close. Where's that coming from? So we just started lobbing rounds in, in where we thought it was. Like, uh, we, we're late on a position already, so we just started dropping rounds. And we're not being accurate. We're just dropping rounds wherever they go because, you know, it's like we don't, we don't know for sure if that's it. So we're just gonna, we're gonna send some probing rounds and hopefully we scare them enough to make them stop. But they shoot another round, and, and this one's— this one's scary. It's close. Uh, the whistling sound was way shorter, and it impacted probably like 50 meters away. And for whatever reason, we were all just super lucky that wherever someone was standing, there was no shrapnel. It was— it just hit the berm perfectly.

And, uh, you saw the sparks, you saw the dust kicked up, kick up in the air. And that's when we decided this place So we're panicking, you know, our base plate is dug in. You're not good. You just don't pick it up. It's £130 and it's buried in Syrian dirt, which is like concrete. So we had a grabber call that lifted up, but it's like a 2-man job and everyone's panicking. You know, we have stuff everywhere. You know, we have our sleeping systems laid out like we're over here camping. We're not At war. We're over here having a good time. So we start displacing and we're just grabbing everything as fast as possible. And at one point I look around and I'm down a man. Like, it's me, uh, just for reference, it's me and 2 other Rangers and our platoon sergeant. And me and the other 2 Rangers are— we're struggling, you know. We're trying to force this base plate out. We're digging it out. I look up and I'm trying to find our platoon sergeant. Like, why isn't he helping us? And, uh, come to find out, he was, he was stunned.

Like, he, he froze. He stayed in the passenger's seat and couldn't move. And I went up to him, you know, I hit him on the helmet. I was like, can you fucking help us, please? And he just couldn't hear me. Like, he was just— he kept his eyes forward and like, he just couldn't move.

Wow.

And luckily they didn't We displaced fast enough before another round landed and we left that area. But that's when I started to like lose respect for the platoon sergeant who was an import. He wasn't like a born and raised regiment guy. And that disdain grew. We took artillery a couple other places, like in villages. It just hit buildings around us. It wasn't that serious. Well, I was nosy and like, uh, when they were trying to like, uh, sniper targets, I was on binos just being like, uh, like I had no, I had no business watching it, but I was trying just to see just because, you know, there's nothing else to do when you're deployed. But stuff like that. And then, uh, another memorable incident for that platoon sergeant was we're doing shifts on, um, the infrared I forget what it's called. It's just a camera that's in infrared, you know. I'm pulling security on 180 degrees of an area, and we just cycled off of it because we, we were trained on it. And we do either 1 or 2-hour shifts, and I fell asleep one night, so I accidentally did the shift of another person.

And like, so it was me, it was a team guy, and then it was the platoon sergeant. So I accidentally did the team guy's shift and— oh no, I did the platoon sergeant shift and it was the team guy's— team guy was next. But in my mind it was like, well, I'll just go wake up the platoon sergeant because he's next on the list. And I go to his tent and I was like, hey bro, I accidentally, accidentally stayed up too long. Like, I didn't want to admit that I fell asleep, so I just, I just lied to him. I was like, I stayed up too long. It's your turn to pull shift. And he looks at his watch and he's like, you did my shift, uh, can you just go wake up the next guy? I was like, no, I want to go to bed, man, I'm tired. And he's like, oh no, he should be over here, uh, he should be inside this building on like, uh, 3 doors down, whatever. So I was like, sure, whatever, I'll go wake him up instead. So I go over there and there's no one in there.

So I go back to the platoon charge, like, I can't find him, you want to go look for him and ask him, or can you just pull the shift? I want to go back to bed. He's like, oh no, actually he's in this room. And so I go looking for him and I don't— I can't find him. I don't know who he's talking about. I don't know where he's sleeping. Like, there's a bunch of random dudes sleeping everywhere, so it's like hard to tell, hard to pinpoint the dude you're looking for. And so I just go do another shift. Like, I do 6 hours straight, and at this point I'm exhausted. I haven't slept and the sun's coming up. That was the last shift of the night. And I, I just lost more respect Because, you know, instead of just getting up and doing his shift and, you know, giving the other guy a break, or even doing what he wanted, getting up and going and waking up the dude, because we knew where the next dude slept, because you had to point out— you, you talked to the person that you were waking up and they're like, all right, I'll be right here.

Right.

So, so you knew where he was. I didn't know. I was exhausted. I was too tired to, like, comprehend. And there was just too many people sleeping next to each other where I'd look under NODs and I was like, I don't know if that's him. But I ended up just doing like, uh, 6 hours and I was just exhausted. Uh, we did a couple fire missions and I just ended up passing out on the chair. And they're like, what's wrong? I was like, I'm tired, I haven't slept. And they're like, oh yeah, that's normal. That, that along with the overpressure, you know, you're just gonna lose gaps in your memory. And I was like, okay. Like, I didn't think anything of it. I just, I I was just so mad about the, the principle behind it, you know, the integrity part of it. So I told the team, the guy in charge of the team, the Delta, uh, guy, and I explained to him what happened. He's like, that's not right, uh, I'm gonna talk to him. So he talks to him and he gets the same story, and he talks to me again. He's like, so we got the dilemma, you know, we could send them back.

The only problem, it's gonna look really bad for us. because we're sending back an import, uh, an import platoon sergeant based on a team leader's word. And, and it's just not going to look good for anyone. He's like, I recommend like just, just ignoring him. Um, we'll give you guys the fire missions and he could just be like, uh, safety checks. We'll just rework it that way. And then from there on out, it was just me and my 2 friends doing most of the work and he was just supervising. give him a title so he'd feel important. But, but after that, you know, it was, it was a lot easier. We started doing a lot more reckless things because we were in control and we shouldn't have been. Uh, we, we allegedly, allegedly reached past the max distance on the 120s just because we were barely outside of range. Uh, max range is like 7,200 meters on the 120s. Well, the tube goes a little further down. Let's see if we can force it down. So I told my, uh, my buddy, and he's like, okay, yeah, we could try that. So, so we drop it in there normally, and it's moving so slow.

You can hear it going down the tube. It hits the bottom, you hear the dink, and like it has like a 3-second delay before it goes off. Like, I thought we just misfired. But it goes off and we wait for the splash and the team guy's like, that was really close. Can you send it a little further? I was like, we can try. I was like, hey bro, this time throw it down the tube and then move your hands real quick. So we crank it down another 2 turns and he throws it down the tube and he's like, yeah, that looked good. That hit the target. Meanwhile, me and my buddy, I was like, that was the dumbest thing we could have ever done. Why'd we do that?

Yeah.

I was like, I don't know, it sounded like a good idea in my head. But for whatever reason, it worked out. We just got lucky in that situation because like we were running a gun, we were running a 120, and the other 2 guys were running their own 120 gun. So we were really separated. So like if we had a misfire, they'd have to stop what they're doing, they'd have to come, and we'd have to— it'd be a whole thing.

Yeah, yeah, that would suck.

Um, yeah, but we got lucky.

And then you redeployed back to the United States and the last one was to Iraq, right?

Yeah. So I redeployed to, or I got back to the States and this is when I met my wife and that's when the shift started. You know, this whole time I thought I wanted to go SF. I wanted to go Delta. And at the time I was a corporal, I believe. And at that time, or I was a fresh sergeant or one of the two. And I reached out because Uh, with that deployment, they're like, oh, you should try out, you know, for, for the team. I was like, okay, sure, I got nothing to lose. It sounds like a good time. You know, you guys are nice to me. You guys go by first names. I'm not getting disrespected. I'm not getting screamed at. You guys just tell me what to do, and if I do it right, it's a, it's a good job. And if I do it wrong, it's like, this is what you could have done better, instead of like, you know, you're always wrong. So I was like, that— I like that environment, environment a whole lot better. So like, yeah, just, uh, just, just, uh, try out, you know. You can name drop us if you want.

But it's like, in my mind, it's like, nah, I want to do it myself, you know. I, I don't, I don't, I don't need a handout from anyone. So I talked to the recruiter and he's like, well, you need to meet this criteria. You need to have one NCO, NCOER. And I was like, I was like, yeah, but I, I've deployed with them, you know. It's like, they'll vouch for me. He's like, yeah, that's not how this works, you know. You, you have to meet the the textbook standard of having 1 year as a sergeant. I was like, well, it's either, it's either this or I'm getting out, you know. I'm not re-enlisting for a maybe or for a tryout, you know. And they're like, well, I, you know, there's nothing we can do. There's nothing you could talk about. So I forgot about it, you know. I didn't, I didn't really care, you know. I still had time. I still had another deployment. I saw it. I was still scheduled for a training cycle and deployment. So At this time, you know, a lot more wars ramping up. We got the Syria deployments and the Iraq deployments, actually a new deployment for us at the time, where only 2, one other Ranger weapon squad and mortar team leader had deployed there.

And it was attached to Delta. While we were there, it was just training the partner forces again. And I thought it was going to be a lot like Afghanistan. when we get there, we do our show of force, you know, let's show them that we actually know what we're doing. Because I'm just a kid, bro. I'm 22 years old, you know, I don't know much of anything. I know how to ego people and that's about it. But, uh, luckily we had a weapons squad leader who was a little more seasoned, you know, a couple more deployments. He was, uh, E-6, about to be E-7. And he's like, yeah, this is what we're gonna do. We're— I was a fresh sergeant, but just for reference, he's like, yeah, we're gonna get there and we're gonna show them how, how efficient we are with our weapon squads and our mortars. That way they respect us. I was like, okay, sounds good, man. Uh, how are we getting there? Are we driving or we flying in? He's like, we're, we're walking. I was like, why? It's like, to show that we can do it. I was like, okay, sounds— I guess.

I don't know. He's like— I was like, how far are we walking? It's like, it's like 12K. I was like, with a combat load? He's like, yeah. I was like, oh. That— this doesn't sound as fun anymore, you know, because we were rocking the conventional, uh, mortar.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, bipod, extra weight. And me, I, I always, uh, egoed to the point where I needed more rounds than the combat load. So like, normally they're like, take 12 rounds. I was like, we're taking like 20, fuck it, we're gonna show these guys how strong we are. And we do it, we get there, we, we lay on a target, we light it up, we— it's very efficient. And at this point, you know, the, the Kurdish, uh, team leader, he, he, he's impressed. You know, he's, he's never seen that level of efficiency, that level of speed, and just the level of weight that we were carrying. He, he was actually astonished. He's like, how heavy is that? And I had my private do the math on the rounds and stuff, the weight of the bipod and all that, and I gave it to him. He's like, you guys walked with that the whole time? I was like, you watched us, you were there. And he just starts laughing. He's like, no, no, I respect it. He's I think we'll get along just fine. And, you know, we do training missions. And I didn't know that this was going to be like, we actually got to do other things other than just training.

But like, in my mind, I thought I was going back to Afghanistan and it was just going to be a chill, chill with the boys thing. But, uh, we did get to go out into the city, you know, just pick up some high-value targets and—

This was like Soleimani and Kirkuk?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I honestly don't remember what, what cities we were going into. I just remember that I wasn't having as much fun as I wanted to because I was just pulling security. Every now and then they'd let me into a building. It's like, I want to do the building part. I don't want to sit, you know, covering X, Y, and Z sectors of fire, you know. Uh, but it is what it is, you know, bottom of the totem pole. You got all these top-tier guys and Rangers are just the lowest because we have the privates. So we were mostly just pulling security for them and it wasn't too crazy. I had this one incident where this vehicle is just driving at us way too fast. So we're laying prone and we have the weapon squad laid in on it and my buddy's on it, or my private's on it with his laser. And I just stand up and shine my white light at him and he gets way too close. We let him way too close. We should have probably lit him up, but— I, I, in my mind, I just pictured like an Uber driver that was lost and saw like a strobing light and got confused.

So I, I didn't shoot, and he finally realized that there was a bunch of dudes with guns pointed at him, and he backed up slowly and left. But that was like the only close call that we really had other than like, you know, generic like, uh, vehicles. Like, uh, one thing that I was really sad about was Oh, it wasn't even this deployment. The previous deployment, I was the minigun gunner, and I did so much training for that, and I never got to use it.

Oh, wow.

I got to test fire it one time, and I'm still salty about that. I wanted to light up a car or something. But on this deployment, I was a .50 cal gunner, and it was just a lot of the same, you know, scanning, analyzing. It becomes routine at some point. it's no longer like a stressful situation. It just becomes what it is. But we did get in trouble while we were there, and it's because, you know, we're a bunch of alcoholics with egos. Um, and me, I don't, I don't care like what your rank is. I don't care what you've done. If, if you talk to me respectfully, I'm gonna return that same energy. And one night we're playing poker and one of the one of the team guys is, is just way too drunk and talking shit. And we're just going back and forth trying to see who, who's done more in this, and we're just like, uh, dropping kill count and etc. And he's like, oh, bullshit, you didn't do any of that. And, uh, this is where like I get one positive influence is, uh, one of the team guys was like, bro, you should just go to bed, you're not gonna win this argument.

I was like, you know what, you're right. I was like, I was like, thank you for having me, uh, I'll see you guys tomorrow. So I leave, and the way this place was set up was it was Americans, French, a bunch of different nations were all compound together. And, uh, I believe it was the French or Canadians that they ended up throwing a party just, just to like hang out and talk. And we got in trouble here, and it was mostly because of our privates got a little too drunk. And me, uh, I'd get drunk, but I, I still want to have some level of control, you know. I'd still want to be able to react to something if something happened, you know. I'm not, I'm not blacking out in this situation. So I'm sitting there drinking way too much like everyone else, and I'm watching my private just because, you know, he's my responsibility. And he's too drunk, he's bumping into people, knocking drinks out of people's hands. Not like on purpose, just like bumping into them. So I let it— I let it go on for a little bit, and then finally I decide, you know, that's enough.

You know, you bumped into— you dropped some guy's drink. Yeah, you know, he was upset about it, so I'm just gonna tell you to go home. So I go up to him, I was like, hey bud, uh, you should go the fuck home right now. And he's like— he argued with me. He's like, why?

Why?

I was like, because I fucking said so. And he continues to argue with me and he's like, well, I'm off duty, you know, I'm not working right now. I was like, I was like, bitch, you're always working. You're in the military. I'm gonna make your life hell if you don't go home. And at this point I'm screaming at him. I'm full rage mode because like, I'm the sergeant. You're a fucking private without a tab. So like, obviously there's some level of respect there. And one of the team guys overhears us arguing. He's like, yeah, this is, this is getting too escalated. Everyone should just go home. And like everyone does, you know, all everyone goes back to their respective compounds. And I knew we were in trouble. I knew that that wasn't going to go over well. So I started drinking water. I started chugging like canteens of water, knowing what's coming in the morning. And, uh, I wake up early in the morning, I go to the gym.

Why?

I don't know, because that was my routine. And in the gym, I was like, fuck, I need to go check in to see what they have— they want us to do. And I go check in with the weapon squad leader, and I tell them what happened. I tell them the truth because I have nothing to hide. And he's like, you know, you know what we're gonna have to do, right? I was like, I know what you want to do. I was like, you're gonna haze us until someone throws up. I don't want to do it. He's like, he's like, you know we're gonna do it. I was like, yeah, I know we're gonna do it. I don't want to. So when, uh, whatever, 6— or we waited until everyone else was awake so they can see us suffer, all the other team guys and all the other compounds. But sunlight comes up and we're out there formation with our canteens like a bunch of privates, and we're like, we're gonna walk this airfield until someone throws up. So we walk it, we do a lap, and at this point we're a fucking spectacle. Everyone's out there with binos just watching us.

And the airfield, or the compound, to walk all around it was like 6 miles or something crazy. So we do our first lap and I'm tired. I don't want to keep doing this anymore. Uh, it's me and the weapon squad guy, we're walking in the front and all the privates are behind us. I was like, how long we going, Brandon? I'm fucking exhausted. I'm gonna throw up soon. He's like, nah, someone else is gonna throw up before you. Just hold it. We're just going. And finally, like 2 and a half laps in, someone finally throws up. And I was like, can we go home, please? My legs hurt. Like, just a one-on-one conversation. And he's like, yeah, we're done after that. I'm tired too, man. He's like, but don't show it. Act tough when we get back to the privates. So we get back to the privates, we're like, all right, did you guys learn your fucking lesson? All right, let's go back, uh, go get ready for the day. And like, we had to run back and like get all our equipment and get ready for the training cycle. But it was just like, it was, it was a learning lesson, you know?

It's like you can only show so much. Like, even like, uh, like to me, he, he, he was super— I, I like had so much respect for him just because he had actual deployments where he was, uh, not in the weapons squad, he was on the line team, and he actually got to kick in doors. It was just a respect thing for me that, like, whatever he said, you know, I respected him enough to where I was gonna do it no matter if I agreed or didn't agree with it. But, but we do it, and then, like, the team guys are like, you guys are fucking nuts, you guys are fucking insane. They're like, we, we had some, we had some choice words for you, but We let it go after watching you guys struggle. I was like, sweet, we accomplished exactly what we wanted to, you know? And it blew over after that, you know, they're like, all right, they punish themselves. We don't have to punish them.

I can imagine on these sorts of like train, advise, assist type deployments that like Ranger privates, you kind of got to keep them busy, like give them something to do, you know, or bad things happen.

Yeah, yes and no. I think with a little direction and like a little bit of freedom, you know, like this is where I started letting go control a little bit, where I wanted him to max a PT test. And to me, it was just so easy to max a PT test, you know. You can't max a PT test? What's wrong? You can't do 80 push-ups? Do push-ups until you could do 80 push-ups. It's not a complex structure. You can't run fast? Well, run more. And he was right on the line. He was like a 95% there. And it was just like, just do the other 5%, you know, you got to work towards it. It's not just going to happen by itself. But, you know, this is where I gave him freedom. It's like, you're going to do whatever you want. And if you can pass the PT test at the end of the month, I'm gonna keep leaving you alone. And that's where I learned like another form of leadership. You know, I don't have to be the one that, that hazes him into excellence. Like, I don't have to be, like, leading by example in a sense every time, you know.

I could just, uh, let go of some of the control and expect him to do it. And he did, you know. He, he was maxing PT tests by then, the deployment. But, you know, there's— they're so— it's so simple. Like, you just tell them what you want to accomplish, and a lot of times they'll do it real quick, you know. You don't, you don't have to micromanage them. And I did that for way too long, you know. It's like I don't want your negative outcome to be a reflection of me, you know, therefore I have to be involved in it. It was just bad logic, you know.

Yeah, no, there's definitely something to that. It depends on the soldier, right? How much supervision they need.

Yeah, 100%. And he was just more of an adult, you know, where you can tell him to do something and he'd do it. And I just had too many bad experiences. My first private was not the brightest. He had a good heart, but he just, he had it in the wrong places. You know, you can tell him to remember this, or he had no street smarts. It's what it came down to. You know, he was very book smart. But as soon as, you know, something stressful happened, he like shut down and like mess up whatever, or— He'd overshoot. He'd put in the wrong numbers, just very basic, like, uh, put in stressful situations, he couldn't handle it. So that's where I got a lot of my, like, oh, I have to be, I have to be double-checking everything. I have to be micromanaging. And it was just because that was my first experience with a private.

Um, so talk to us a little bit about coming home and transitioning out of the military.

It wasn't great. Alcohol was keeping me alive for way too long. It started after the Afghanistan deployment, actually. You know, we get back and I'm feeling these new emotions I've never felt before.

Mm-hmm.

You know, anxiety, depression. And I didn't know what it was. I just knew I didn't like it. So I go to one of my team leaders and Uh, I, I started talking to him, and I didn't drink at this point. And he's like, well, you know, I've dealt with a lot of things. And it was someone I respected, you know, someone who had a couple deployments. And he's like, he was, he was wasted at this point. He'd been drinking for way too long. And he's like, he hands me a beer. He's like, your problems will go away at the bottom of this beer. I was like, sweet. So I chug it. I was like, well, this is, this is the cure. Well, he wouldn't lie to me, so I chug it real quick and I still feel like shit. It didn't solve anything. And I tell him, I was like, hey man, uh, I don't think that fixed it. He's like, oh, just drink another one, and if that doesn't fix it, just keep going until it does. So we just get, uh, wasted. And that's where like the alcoholism really started, you know. It started with you drink way too much when you were around certain people, but you surround yourself with the right people and you have moderation.

And the thing that saved me was probably my wife. You know, when I was around her, you know, I wasn't drinking to get blacked out drunk. I was drinking for a good time. And I met her after the Syria deployment. And it was rough being separated on the Iraq deployment. Like, I'd call her every night and we'd keep in touch. We were married Right before that deployment. And that's what carried me over, you know, it's knowing I had something to go back to, you know. For the longest time, I just wanted to die. That was one of the biggest reasons I joined the military. It was easier to die honorably, you know, in my mind, that was the easiest way to go, you know. I die overseas and my family gets a paycheck and I get my problems solved. And it was that mentality that really did me in, you know, after the, the military, alcoholism and that mentality where I was drinking. And then I was like, well, what do I do now? How else can I, I go honorably? Well, I'm gonna be a cop and then I'm gonna join the SWAT team and that's gonna solve my problems.

Not knowing that I had to deal with the underlying issue that I figured out later in life, but. After the military, my son is born the same month I get out. So to be completely honest with you, I lied a lot. So I got out the military, I smoked weed. I thought that would solve my problems, you know. I thought that would cure the anxiety, that would help me sleep. And to be in a police department, you can't smoke weed within 2 years. So I was gonna lie on the polygraph. I had to. There was no way I could pass the polygraph if I was completely honest. So I, I applied to every agency within like 50 miles where my wife's hometown was, uh, Baltimore, York area. And I just kept applying for a year, and it was just a slow process of, you know, you got to go try out, you got to go do this. And this whole time I'm trying to raise my son the best the best I can, you know. I'm a stay-at-home dad. My wife is going through postpartum, so she, she decided to go back to work. And I was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not working, so I'll watch my son, you know.

I, I'll enjoy that part of it. And I truly did, you know. I bonded with him.

We—

I'd have him on my chest while I'm playing video games when he's just napping. It's like, it was, it was a good time, you know. It gave me purpose again. And then After I got out, uh, March 2018, and I was hired as a cop on December of that same year. And then my wife decided to stop working so she could take care of the kid, and we swapped roles. And same thing, man, my mouth got me in trouble a lot. I didn't stop being myself. And that transition from being told, you know, you're God's gift to Earth, you cannot die, you are unstoppable, to, bro, you're just a cop. You're, you're human. You should be nice to people. You can't talk to people this way. Uh, that transition was really hard for me. In the police academy, you know, I was egoing everyone. Every instructor I ran into, it was like, brother, you're fucking fat. You cannot talk to me this way. Like, I will outrun you. Like, and I wasn't saying it like that direct, but that, that's what I was thinking in my head. You know, it's like, I will outperform you in any task that you decide.

So I'd just be speaking out, making jokes, uh, talking shit, the norm, the typical military banter. And I was lucky that there was like a Marine guy there and another guy who was just very bro mentality, you know, like he was all about it. It was like, yeah, fuck these people, they're all dumb, you know, they don't know better, we're better than them, we're gonna We're gonna run in if— so let me give you the first experience of, of, uh, getting hired by a police department. So I apply, I— you do your test, you, uh, it's like, uh, the equivalent of an ASVAB. Pass that, uh, then you get scheduled for an interview. Uh, pass the interview, do a polygraph, and I, I was blessed in the sense where Allegedly there was polygraphs overseas, so I practiced so I knew what— how to beat them. And it just goes to show how bullshit they are. If I could smoke weed and then— so I smoked weed on— in March, and then December is when I was hired. So that was not 2 years, but I just told myself that it was, it was one time, you know, it doesn't count.

And I just told myself enough times myself that enough times to where I believed it. And I passed the polygraph. However, for whatever reason, I guess I was just honest with myself, and there was ways to work around the polygraph, but I passed that. And then, uh, you, you go into this limbo phase for a little bit where you're, you're hired on but the police academy doesn't start, so you just go in and do admin BS. And this is where I started to grow the disdain for cops even more, you know. The reason I joined the cop— the reason I wanted to be a cop was I wanted to see a change, you know. I wanted people to have way more positive interactions than they had negatives. So that was my mentality going into it, you know. I've had so many bad experiences. I don't think I've ever had a good experience with a cop at that point. So it was like, If I could give you a warning, that's what I was going to do. But I get there and that mentality doesn't seem to be the norm, you know. There's a recruitment officer there and I'm just egging her because I know I can outperform their PT test.

And she's like, no, there's no way. You know, you're going to— you should just be— you should just try to pass it. I was like, I'm going to max it. What's the max? I don't need to know what the minimum standard is. I don't care about the minimum. I'm going to do the best. And like, uh, I guess that ego didn't, didn't vibe with her. And she's like, oh, you're just here full of yourself, blah blah blah. I was like, I'm just gonna let my actions speak louder than my words. And she's like, okay, uh, let's go, let's go for a run. I was like, okay, you coming with me? And she's like, oh no, I have a bad hip, I'll follow you in the patrol car. I was like, if you're scared, just say that. And at this point, you know, she's like, all right, let's, let's do a mock PT test. I was like, Okay. I was like, what do you want me to do? And she's like, oh, let's just do push-ups, see if you could do it. It's something super low, it's like 50 push-ups to max it. So I'm staring her down as I'm doing these push-ups, and I get to 50 and I just start counting.

I go all the way up to like 80, 90, and I was like, you want me to keep going? And she's like, no, do the sit-ups now. And I'm just, I'm just staring her down the whole time. And I understand how bad it sounds now, but at the time, you know, It's like, you challenged me, so I'm gonna prove my point now. But from that point, you know, that disdain grew. So when I got to the academy, uh, it's, it's so sad to me, you know, this— she was— she recruited me. She was the one that was looking out for me in a sense. And I was cool with one of the instructors who was also a military vet, you know. I, I— we, we exchanged stories, we talked, you know. He was all about the, the ego part of it, of Oh, let's— everyone's tired. Let's do some more push-ups. This is easy, you know, because they make you do cadence. And I was the one doing cadences just because I knew them. And he's like, I love your mentality. You come in here and you're just happy. It's like, yeah, I got nothing to lose.

This is, this is entertainment for me. And he's like, yeah, but like, you're going to get in trouble. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, your captain, she stopped by and she asked If there's things that you're doing that are not in line with police values. I was like, I was like, what do you mean? He's like, she's fishing, bro. In simple terms, she, she wants to write you up and she just wants to start the paper trail. I was like, you're not allowed to tell me that, are you? He's like, I didn't tell you anything. I was like, okay, sweet. I was like, so what's coming? He's like, oh well, she came in here looking for a rule infraction, and a rule infraction is the same as the California 3 strikes. You get 3 rule infractions and you're out. And, uh, the verbiage behind it was, although the totality— or although there's no one thing you did that violates— that constitutes a rule infraction, the totality of the circumstances, everything combined, is the reason you're getting—

You're just sort of overall an asshole. It's kind of the gist. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yep, yep. And I agreed with it. I wasn't, I wasn't going to deny it. But the fact that they stretched it, you know, and they had this thing where you could take it to trial and then, you know, you could argue with them and all that. And I, and I like to be a thorn in people's side. So I was like, I'm gonna take it to trial. I'm gonna argue with you in court. And, and, uh, I was talking to the instructor. I was like, what are the odds I win this? He's like, 0%, bro. There's no, there's no world where You win this argument. I was like, but like, it's bullshit. He's like, I agree, but you're not gonna win it. I was like, I was like, what do you recommend I do? He's like, bro, just keep your head down. Stop, stop talking. I was like, fine, I'll stop egoing. And then so that's what I did, you know, I just kept my head down. And anytime they asked me a question, I'll be like, I'd still have the ego. I'd be like, can I answer this? Am I allowed to talk now?

And they're like, yeah, answer the question. And I'll answer whatever question it was, you know, it wasn't hard for me. Uh, once I graduated, I was supposed to be awarded every award— the, uh, defensive tactics award, the shooting award, the PT award, and the, um, academic award. And I was talking to the instructor the day before they gave the awards out, and he's like, you're not gonna like this. I was like, what bullshit do you have for me now? Yeah, he's like, you know how I told you you're getting every award? They changed the criteria so you only get 2 of them. I was like, sick. And I actually have them right here. Maybe, I don't know, box will jump. I don't know, it's in a box somewhere. But I got the PT award and the, the top, Top Gun award. But it wasn't even the fact that I only got those 2 awards. It was the fact that they were going to give me all 4 of them, but then they decided to like change the criteria because, you know, they didn't want one person getting all 4 awards. And it's just like, what are we doing here?

You know, you guys are, you guys are changing stuff. And they did it with an obstacle course too. You know, they, they pushed the start line further back for me and my buddy that they knew, they knew we were going to be, we were going to beat the score. So they made the start line further back. And then they didn't tell us that we absolutely crushed it still, because like, uh, it was like an obstacle course, you know, very generic. It was super easy obstacle course, like a kindergarten obstacle course compared to what we've been through. And I egoed them. Uh, they're like, oh, you have to stay with your partner. I was like, I'm gonna race you, brother. And he's like, you're gonna lose. I was like, there's no way I'm gonna lose. I'm gonna win this. And me and my buddy, we raced, and I combat throw— dove through windows. Like, I was, I was pulling all the stops, and, and we absolutely crushed it. We beat it by like 30 seconds. And, and they wouldn't tell us what our score was until like my buddy went back one day for like training, and he's like, you know, we're the highest ranked on that obstacle course.

I was like, they told us we lost. Like, yeah, I, I saw the award. It's on, it's on a wall. You guys, we did the best. I was like, well, why didn't they tell us? He's like, you know why they didn't tell us? They hate us. I was like, yeah, you're right. But I ended up graduating. Like, I didn't even care about the awards, honestly. Like, for me, it's just another— like, I already know, like, I could do it. It was just like, it's unnecessary. Like, I don't— I'm not— I wasn't there for the award, you know?

What did, uh, what did you think about the police department when you got there? And, and like, how did that job kind of like combine with some of the transition or PTSD issues that you were dealing with on the, on the back end?

Yeah, I think it gave it like a, uh, easier off-ramp, if that makes sense. You know, like, uh, you go from trauma, the highest level of trauma, and then here's different level of trauma. But everyone, like, you felt comfortable in the sense where everyone was, was experiencing the same levels of trauma. No one was dealing it. Everyone's uh, coping with alcohol. Very few people are actually talking about their emotions. And you could do that for a while. You could do— it works until it doesn't. But getting there, you know, you quickly realize that the reason that, that police department specifically is the way it is, is because that's just how they're trained, you know. They don't want you to be proactive. It's actually the opposite. You get in trouble, you get talked to, and I just didn't care, you know. My goal was to do the 44 agencies' traffic tickets by myself, and I accomplished that close to every time, every month. That was my goal every time. I was like, I'm gonna go stop as many people as I can, and I'm just gonna give them warnings. And I'd get pulled into the office.

They're like, what are you doing? I was like, giving warnings. Why? And they're like, you should, uh, write citations. I was like, what for? They're like, well, it looks bad that you're just giving warnings, you know, your ratio is off. I was like, well, in my mind, if I'm going to be speeding everywhere I go and I stop someone for speeding, why would I write them a ticket? It doesn't make sense. They're like, yeah, but like, we need to write more tickets, that way it evens out and stuff. I was like, sure, uh, send it to me in an email and then I'll do it, because they didn't want the paper trail part of it. They wanted to talk to you and then you just do it.

Yeah, yeah. Because there are, there are no quotas.

Illegal since the '80s.

Yeah, yeah.

Believe it or not, I looked into it. But every argument I went into, I'd get the factual evidence first. You know, I wasn't going into an argument that I knew I couldn't win. And if I was, I was just going in there to piss people off for fun. But they slowly started forcing me out by like writing me up for bullshit. So the first time, other than like, uh, I didn't even mention in like the rule infraction in the academy, my own captain wrote in a section where she was like, I, I too have also spoken with Officer Garduño and he has shown signs of disrespect, etc., or insubordination was the terminology. But that's, that's part of it. And then the next time I got written up We were— I was on, I was on night shift when I got there just because they hated me, obviously. And so I was forced onto night shift and I was not sleeping. I was getting like 3 or 4 hours and I was waking up to my son. You know, he's a baby, so he's crying. So like, I was not getting the sleep I needed, so I was just surviving off caffeine.

But like, the less sleep I got, the more attitude I had just because I didn't have the tolerance for it. And one night we get new recruits and they're on night shift. And for whatever reason, I know that this one officer has a DUI, a previous DUI back in the day. And I just look at him and smile and I was like, hey brother, you get to be on the other side of a DUI tonight. And, and I just laugh and walk away. No, think nothing about it. This is a very generic, typical conversation I have with people. Like, I, I, I didn't even think it— I didn't even think it was that harsh. I've said way meaner things to other people. And I walk away, I go do my job, unlike most of the agency. I go out and start patrolling, stopping cars, trying to arrest people. And the— probably like a week later, I get pulled into an office and it's the captain, the patrol captain. He's like, you know what you said last time? I was like, what are you talking about? It's like, well, do you remember like making remarks towards another officer?

I was like, what are you asking me? Do I talk to other officers? I knew exactly why I was there, but I was just, I was just playing, playing with him. And he's like, well, at this point he's like, uh, stumbling over his words. He's like, well, what I'm trying to ask is, uh, have you, have you been disrespectful to other officers? I was like, define disrespectful. And we went back and forth. I was like, can you just tell me the quote that you want me to say? He's like, well, you said, uh, to another officer he gets to be on the other side of a DUI. I was like, I don't remember. I don't, I don't remember if I said that or not. I was like, am I getting in trouble for this? Uh, if so, I want my attorney present because police have an FOP. And that's when he like closes his book. He's like, no, no, no, you're not getting in trouble. Uh, I just need to talk to you about this, you know. Worst case, uh, worst case scenario, it's just a written reprimand and, and then it, it disappears. And I was like, well, that doesn't sound that bad.

I don't care. You could— you give me the written reprimand. I don't want to get an attorney involved. So I get the written reprimand, and I actually felt bad because, you know, I thought I hurt this grown man's feelings with a joke. So I go back to him and I was like, hey man, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. He's like, what are you talking about? I was like, the joke. I got— I just got pulled into the office. He's like, I got pulled into the office. I told him I didn't care, I thought it was funny. I was like, And who wrote— who snitched on me? And I went to my lieutenant and I just wanted to know why I got in trouble. And I was like, hey, LT, you mind just looking into this? I got written up for a joke I made. I want to know why. He's like, oh, fine, sure. You're always about drama. Can you just do your job? Just joking. I was like, I do the most traffic stats out of anyone here. I don't want to hear it. And he goes, he goes asking around and Come to find out, it was another officer got offended on his behalf.

But it gets worse. They decided to write me up when they were at a bar drinking, talking about the incident. And that's, that's, that, that was the time that they decided, you know, he should get in trouble for this. And it was like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have said that, but at the same time, it's, it's not that deep. Yeah, that was the first, uh, Yeah, that was the first sign that I was like, okay, I am slowly not going to be liked here. And I made a lot of mistakes just because I didn't know better. And I knew better a lot of the times, I just didn't want to get in trouble or didn't want to deal with the consequences. And I say mistakes, it was, it was a lot of like integrity mistakes on my behalf where I wasn't arresting police officers when I should have. And one really it bothers me to this day that I should have taken this guy to jail. So where I worked in Westminster City, uh, there's a bar downtown where there's a one-way, and if you're drunk, you're going the wrong way on the one-way every time.

I don't care if— I don't care, it's a bar, it's a one-way, you should go the one way. But I'm sitting, I'm sitting there across the street just, just hanging out. I don't even want to do anything, like, I'm tired. I just want to observe the crowds just have the presence there because like a lot of times if you're there, people don't act out, they don't get into fights, stuff like that. But I see this car pulling out the wrong way out of the one-way. I was like, fine, I'll go stop him. So I run to my car, I light him up, and he pulls over right away. And he has the audacity to just hold his badge up to the window. So I knock on his window and I was like, you want to roll the window down, buddy? And he's like, can't you see I'm a cop? I'm one of you, you could just let me go. I was like, you're gonna roll the window down or I'm gonna break it and drag you out. And he's like, oh, you're one of them cops. I was like, can I see your license, registration, and proof of insurance?

And I'm just smiling at the whole time. He's mad, uh, he has his gun very, very obviously displayed in like the center console. And he gets the paperwork and he hands it to me. He's still pissy about it. I was like, you keep talking, you're gonna talk yourself into jail. And he's like, oh, you wouldn't do that. Then we'd have like a turf war, essentially. I was like, what are you even saying? Like, you know you shouldn't be driving. Uh, I'm gonna go run you and then I'll go from there. So I go run him, uh, Baltimore City cop, and I want to take him to jail so bad just because of his attitude. So I, I call out that I'm on field sobriety, and anytime you call out, uh, you're on field sobriety, another officer comes for backup just for safety reasons. And, and it's the supervisor, and I'm talking to him. I was like, I want to take him to jail. And he's like, nah, you shouldn't. It's gonna look bad, you know. How about you just, uh, how about you just let him park his car and then tell him to get a ride home?

I was like, but I want to take him to jail. I don't like his attitude. He's like, he's like, just do it, man. I don't, I don't want the paperwork, you know, because if arrest a cop, they got to reach out to the agency, they got to submit the gun, they got to transfer. It's a whole— it's a logistical nightmare. It ties them up for a really long time. So I was like, fine, I'll go let him park in the library. That's a one-way too. He can only go one way in this library as well. So I was like, I'm gonna go— I'm gonna let you park in this parking lot. I'm gonna go sit on the other end of the one-way, and if I see you drive out, I'm gonna take you to jail. And, and so I do. I, I, I, I drove his car to the parking lot because I didn't want him driving. I was like, get a ride home or else you're gonna end up in jail. And he's still pissy with me. He's like, oh, I'm gonna go talk. I was drinking with my captain. He's not gonna stand for this.

I was like, talk to whoever the fuck you want. I don't care. And I just— I, I leave at that point. I go, I drive up. It's like a U-turn, uh, library. So like, it's a one-way this way. So he parked in on this, on the one side, and I was just waiting on the other side. So I waited there, and 2 minutes later I see the same car pulling out.

No shit.

There's no way. There's no way this guy has the fucking ego to pull out again. So I light it up again. I don't care who it is. I told you not to drive that car. I should, I should have towed it. But I light him up again, and it's the same fucking dude driving. I was like, you're going to jail. Hop out, you're doing field sobriety. And I started doing field sobriety, and he's wasted. I could have told you from the moment I spoke to him, just from the smell of the car, that he was drunk. And I started doing field sobriety until my, uh, my supervisor shows up and he's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm taking him to jail, I don't care, I'm fucking over it. Oh, and he's like, slow down, come talk to me. Uh, so I handcuff him, I put him in the back of my car, and I go talk to my supervisor. He's like, think about what you're about to do. You pulled him over, there's a record of you pulling them over, and then you let them go, and then you pulled them over again 5 minutes later, and then you arrested them.

How are you going to explain that to the court? I was like, I don't know, I'll tell the truth, I guess. It's like, that's gonna look really bad on your integrity part. I was like, I was like, what would you have me do? He's like, just, just, just let me handle it. I was like, fine. Can you tow his car at least? Can I tow his car? Can I do something to hurt him? Can I take his keys and chuck them in the woods? He's like, just let me handle it. I was like, fine, whatever. And I, I just forget about it. I let it go because like that was my first like encounter that I actually wanted to arrest a cop and I didn't. And I talked to him later. I was like, whatever happened to him? I was like, oh, his wife came, picked up his car, and they're super thankful. They, they called in. It's like, yeah, but like, I sold my integrity, you know? I didn't want to do any of that. I was like, in the future, if I want to arrest a cop, should I just arrest them from the beginning?

He's like, that's up to you, man. I'm just going to tell you the consequences. I was like, what do you mean consequences? It's a cop. He should go to jail if he's DUI'd. He's like, yeah, that's, that's what should happen, but in reality, what's gonna happen is every officer in this county is going to hate you because you're arresting our friends, essentially.

essentially.

And that was just the cop mentality at the time. I don't know if it's shifted.

I doubt it.

No, no, you got to think positively. It's definitely for the better. It definitely doesn't happen anymore.

I'm sure.

This was 20— yeah, yeah. And there was a lot of mistakes that I made like that where it was just, it was just so blatantly obvious, you know. You're doing 100 miles in a posted 60 and you're drunk and you're coming from a police gathering and you expect me just to let you go? No.

Give me your keys.

I'm gonna chuck them in the lake because someone told me I could do that. So that's what I— that's what I started doing. I was just chucking people's keys into random places. And until I got in trouble for it, someone complained about it and, and I got pulled into the office. They're like, have you been chucking people's keys into the tree lines? I was like, yeah. They're like, why? I don't know, someone said I could. I got the green light, you know. They said I couldn't take them to jail, so I— you know, you punish them by making them walk home. And they're like, stop doing that, you're gonna get in trouble. I was like, why? I was like, it's either that or I take them to jail. I'd rather take them to jail, but I don't want to be like known as the cop who's arresting other cops. And, uh, shortly after that, I got in trouble again, and it was This, this one's still— it's so annoying to me. So I am downtown, it's like 1 or 2 in the morning, and I'm bullshitting with one of my friends because, as most cops do, you, you go meet up and you just talk about all the incidents you have, and that's just how they decompress.

And we're just talking, and I was like, I see a car, and I was like, that dude's 100% drunk. I seen him like 2 blocks away, he's crossing center line and like his headlights are off. I was like, there's I was like, you want it? He's like, nah, this is your sector, you pull him over. I was like, I don't want to do a DUI tonight. I was like, fine, I'll do it. So I follow him. I follow him for like, uh, half a mile just to get more evidence. Uh, it's just like, for me, it's like if I got you crossing the center line 7 times and, you know, you forgot to stop at a stop sign, it's just, it's just more reason. It's just more probable cause. So he finally gets to this warehouse parking lot. I light him up and It's suspicious to me, uh, that he still has his foot on the brake. And it's very rare that you pull over someone and they keep their foot on the brake unless they plan on leaving. So this whole time I'm just thinking to myself, what is this guy thinking? You know, like, why is he still— think like he hasn't let off the brake.

He's probably still in drive. I'm just gonna stay here for a little bit, see if he tries to take off. And he didn't do anything until I was like, you know what, I called out my stop, uh, you know, very generic police talk, uh, vehicle description. It didn't have a vehicle tag, so I didn't call out a tag, uh, gave make and model and location. And after that, I, I kicked my door open. I don't even, I don't even sit up. I don't even get out of my, uh, patrol car because I know there's something weird about this. I kicked the door open and that's when he takes off. So I, I put it I was still in drive. I, I stepped on the gas and followed him, and my door closes by itself with the momentum. But I started following him, and this was my first pursuit. I don't know what a pursuit is. I've read the textbook. I know I have certain things I have to call out. And I started calling stuff out, you know, I'm heading this direction. This is the vehicle description. This is the vehicle speed. We're heading to this intersection.

And this agency hasn't had a pursuit in a really long time. So it was new and exciting for everyone. So you have all these officers calling in route. Meanwhile, I can't talk on the, on the radio because everyone else is like, uh, coming up with like blocking positions, you know. Oh, I'm gonna go set up over here to, uh, set up spikes or whatever. And the whole time I'm just trying to get like relay the information that I need to. Like, uh, I had to call out weather conditions. I had to call out— Weather conditions.

We are directly under the sun now.

Yeah, that, that's what I got written up for, is failure to call out weather conditions, vehicle tag, and then, uh, traffic, traffic data. There, there was no traffic. It was 2 in the morning. Me and him were the only cars on the road. But that's what, that's what I got written up for. But, um, I'm chasing this guy. We get to this intersection. It's, it's a busier one, and he wants to turn left, I guess, but he decided too late and he just spun out. But he just, he just did like a half circle and then he, he regained control and then started heading down this road where I know this road is— it's, it's a, it's a sharp turn. I know you cannot go that fast. So I started letting him get some distance on me because I know he's not going to be able to make that turn at that speed. And he doesn't. He hits the median barrier, he rolls the car, flips it twice, and he's just stuck there. The car's rolled, rolled over and I just drive up to him and Wait for him to crawl out. And it's one of the locals.

I know him. It's one of the local crackheads, uh, one of the bad boys. And I was like, what are you doing? He's like, ah, you caught me. I'm drunk. I have some— I have some dope on me. This car is not mine. He's like, you're gonna throw the book at me? I was like, probably. I kind of have to. Why'd you run? He's like, I don't know, I got scared. I was like, it's not my car. I was like, is this stolen? He's like, kind of. I was like, what do you mean kind of? It's either stolen or isn't. And he's just talking to me, and, uh, since he rolled the car, I had to take him to the hospital. And I'm just bullshitting with him. I don't— it's not that serious for me. Like, like, you know, I had my moment of fun, but now, now I could go back to just talking to the dude because it was— he was a kid, you know. He was 18, 19, just had a rough childhood. I've talked to him before. I've asked him about why he's on the street. I've responded to overdoses involving that person.

So I'm talking to him and he's like, yeah, man, I just don't have very many options. So, uh, I was a crack baby very early on. Like, my mom hated me. I got abused. I was like, well, that makes sense. I see why you are in the situation you are. He's like— And we get to the hospital and he's like, Are you going to charge me with the dope that I'm hiding? I was like, it's like, what do you mean? He's like, I know I'm going to jail and I have dope somewhere hidden on me. Are you going to charge me with it? I was like, how much is it? He's like, oh, it's just a, it's just a pipe. It's, it's nothing crazy. I was like, I don't know, I'll hit you with a misdemeanor charge if you give it to me. He's like, all right, that's better than the felony if he was to take it to jail. I was like, all right, whatever. So he gives it to me, hands it over, and, you know, it's very casual conversation. I'm not like mad at him. I'm not— it's not a big deal.

So I take him to jail, I book him, and I, I do all my paperwork, uh, and I submit it. And then I go home because it took me all day to do all that paperwork between a vehicle rolling over, a pursuit, and I just wanted it to be like a finished product when I submitted it. And I submit it, and then I— the next day it's— I have so much red tape on it. I was like, what? What do you mean? I've, I've written police reports for a while now. I've never had one that was this, uh, scrutinized. And they're like, yeah, well, it's because the, the pursuit policy is going to change after that pursuit. We're not— we're no longer allowed to change for DUIs. I was like, because of the pursuit I had? Like, yeah, it's too much liability for the police department. I was like, okay, whatever. I was like, I fixed— I made my corrections, whatever they recommended on the police report, just to make it sound professional, cover their asses. And I didn't think anything of it. A month later, I get pulled into an office and they're— the crazy part is I was, I was getting like high fives, good jobs the whole time, you know, up until this point.

I get pulled into an office and they're like, you remember that pursuit you had? I was like, the one that was within policy? Yeah, why? And they're like, yeah, well, the policies change and, uh, We're not going to write you up because of the policy change, but we kind of are. I was like, what are you saying? They're like, well, we, we scrubbed the, the tapes, we, we listened to the dispatch recordings, and, uh, you failed to call out vehicle tag, weather conditions, and traffic. I was like, yeah, because there was no airtime. I was like, have you gone back and looked at how much free airtime there, there was? Because I did. There was 2 seconds where someone could have spoke, and it takes longer than 2 seconds to key up. So why am I getting written up for this? They're like, well, you know, it's just the, the fact that you didn't, you didn't call out like you were supposed to. You violated the policy. And that's when I got mad. That's when it was personal to me, you know. It was no longer about right or wrong. It was, it was, it was like a personal attack towards me.

And so I just was I need to talk to an attorney. I need to have attorney present. I'm not, I'm not doing this with you today. And he's like, okay, no, we'll, we'll get you an attorney. We'll talk about it then. And that's when I started like, uh, getting my foot out the door. I started looking at other agencies and I just started documenting. I started documenting every policy they violated. Every person there had a policy they violated and I wrote about it. Uh, I— when I left, I had like a, a couple pages that I turned in. And it's crazy. So for Westminster City, when you leave, if they know you're leaving, they're going to open an internal investigation on you so you cannot leave. So you cannot leave until the internal investigation is complete. And I know they're going to listen to this, so I want them to know that the workaround is you go get hired by another agency, and the day you quit Westminster City is the day you get hired by the new agency. And that is the only way you could leave that agency if you're on bad terms with them.

And that's exactly what I did. When I left, I left them a couple pages of things that they did wrong. Um, you're not allowed to have your police dog or your personal dog in a police vehicle. The chief was doing that. I wrote about it. I put timestamps on it. They have the paperwork. There was just so many things like that that I documented because I was sick of being targeted on policies that were selectively enforced. It doesn't make sense. Why would they do that? Yeah, and it's just, it's just like the good old boys club, you know. You're out here trying to make a change, and for me it was— I just wanted to have— I just wanted people to have more positive interactions. If you pull up my traffic stats, you're gonna see I wrote so many warnings, uh, but then I I switched over to a smaller agency, Manchester Police Department. And that leadership was so much better. Do you have any questions on West Memphis?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I just want to, um, we've been going for like 3 hours, 3:15. I just want to like kind of move it to, um, you know, you decided in the end, you know, the police department wasn't really for you, moved into the private sector. Um, can you talk to us a little bit about recovery and the book that you're working on.

Yeah, I'll wrap it up. Yeah, police, I realized that it was a bad loop. I was just avoiding all the emotions and stuff and I was just trying to escape. It was that police or military mentality of you got to keep moving. So when I was at Manchester for 2 years, I decided to go to California to go be a cop out there. And it was just a form of escape. And I, I flew out there, I did their course where you get certified to be a cop in their state. Um, it wasn't hard, it was fairly easy for me. I don't know, it was very textbook, so you just remember the stuff and it was easy. So I did that, and then I moved out there and started applying to every agency. I could find. And it wasn't— it was my first one, uh, San Marcos, uh, Police Department or Chula Vista, one of those two that I applied to. And I got all the way up until the polygraph, and in the polygraph room I experienced a panic attack for the first time. And I didn't have a label for it. I just knew that my heart hurt.

It felt like, like my chest was tightening, and I just didn't know what it was at the time. And the polygrapher is like, well, you're showing signs of deception. Then I was, I was being completely honest. Honestly, I'm stressed out. I don't want to be here. This is just a small room. I can't sit still a lot of the times. Um, at the time I was already diagnosed with PTSD, and, uh, he put in my paperwork that I was being deceptive and, you know, my integrity is up for discussion and It essentially blacklisted me from ever being a police officer ever again. So every agency that I applied to had to contact that agency, and they pretty much just said, you know, he's going to be dishonest, even though I was a cop, you know, a couple months ago. But then I decided to be a truck driver, did that for like 2 years, and a lot of the same, you know, just avoiding emotions, not facing them. And mind you, I, I've been doing, uh, whatever the VA recommended since 2018. So it wasn't until like a year ago where I reached my breaking point.

You know, I was drinking way too much. I was brewing my own alcohol. I got to the point where I was drinking like 5 gallons a day, and I was just numbing. I was numbing hard. And I knew it. I knew I was avoiding something. I just didn't know how to deal with it. You know, I was, I was asking the VA, what can I do to make me feel better? And like, oh, you got to try all these different medications and We— I went up and down all the medication routes from 2018 to last year. We got to a point where there was just like, we've tried mostly all the medications, you know, maybe it's time to try something else. It's like, well, I've been trying therapy, but I go every 2 months. What benefit does that have? Like, yeah, that's just the way the VA schedules it. I was like, well, can I go more? Like, well, you can, you just got to go to the community. I was like, well, how come no one ever told me this? I was like, well, you didn't ask. I was like, I am barely in a state of mind to survive.

How am I gonna ask for more help?

Yeah.

But right after Christmas, I reached my breaking point. I was just drinking to forget. I wasn't drinking to have a good time. I was just numbing as hard as possible. And I just reached the point where I was like, I'd rather Just fucking die, man. Like, I'm so sick of living like this. Like, I have, I have a wife and 2 kids. I know I have a reason to live, but I don't, I don't feel that. I don't feel it. And I ended up just asking my wife, it's like, what should I do? Like, I don't know. I don't know where to go from here. And she's like, uh, you go check yourself into a psych ward. I was like, what good is that going to do for me? Like, they can't help me. And I was like, you know what, I'll try it, just a detox off of alcohol or be done with it. And I checked myself in at a Lebanon VA Medical Center, and it is the worst experience for me. I am so miserable there. I get there, I'm, I'm immediately scanning doors, I'm looking at my exits, I'm— I already know how to get out.

I have to take one key card, scan it, and then I am out the door. I can run from here. And I get there and they give me a room, and it is so terrifying to me. Um, at this point, I, I was, I was way bigger than what I am now. I was, I was like 50, £60 heavier. I was using a CPAP to sleep. And I asked them, I was like, can I, can I have, can I have a CPAP? Uh, I needed to sleep. And they're like, well, uh, did you bring it with you? I was like, No, I'm barely surviving. I want to kill myself. Why would I bring a CPAP? And they're like, well, we can assign you one. You just won't be able to have a roommate. I was like, okay, I guess I won't have a roommate. Okay, we'll get back to you. And I guess they forgot or whatever. So I was just in a room by myself without my CPAP. And for those of you that have never been to the psych ward, they check in on you every 15 minutes, whether you're awake or asleep.

And believe it or not, for someone who can't sleep and suffers from PTSD, you checking in on me every 15 minutes, I'm gonna wake up every 15 minutes. So like, I was there for— I want to say it was like, uh, 5 days total. But the first 2 days were okay because I was still running off like the previous sleep I had. But the longer I was there, I was just getting so angry because I couldn't sleep. And I mask really well. Like, I can pretend like stuff doesn't bother me for a really long time until, you know, I start losing sleep. And then I can— I can't hold it as long, you know. I feel like that's just like a normal human trait. But the longer I'm there, I just start wanting to outburst on people, outrage. And I'm telling them, I was like, can I go home? Like, I, I didn't even feel withdrawals from the alcohol. I just want to go home. I want to be back in where I feel safe. Like, you guys are putting me in a box in here. Like, I already know how I can leave. I just have to hurt you and then I'll be out of here.

And obviously that, that is not what you tell someone in the psych ward because they ask me, they're like, how would you get out of here? Well, I would beat the shit out of you, take your key card, and then walk out if I wanted to leave. Like, just, like, just knowing that I could. And they're like, well, yeah, You, you, you don't have to hurt us. You— we would just give you the key card. We don't want to be hurt. But, but, but like talking to them, and since I went on, um, the day after, uh, Christmas, there was no doctors there, so there was no one there to discharge me. And, and I knew going into it that I could leave whenever I want if I went in there voluntarily. So I told him that. I was like, I checked myself in. Uh, in Pennsylvania it's called a 201 versus a 301. A 201 is voluntarily and 301 is, uh, court mandated, police mandated, whatever. So I, I 201 myself. I, I skipped a couple pieces, but, uh, real fast, I drove myself to the York VA flying 112. My truck doesn't go any faster.

Uh, I talked to the guy there. I was like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I just don't want to be here anymore. What do you recommend? And then he's like, oh, you should go check yourself into a hospital. And that's how I ended up in Lebanon. I ended up at a local hospital. I sat there for a night and I was miserable there because I was stuck next to someone screaming the whole night. So I didn't sleep there. And then they transferred me to the Lebanon VA. And while I was there, same, you know, not sleeping. Trying to leave because, you know, at this point I'd been there 3 days and it lined up to New Year's. And they're like, well, no doctor is going to come in. They're on call, but they're not going to come in to come check you out. I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, I voluntarily came here. I can leave whenever I want. You get— it's only a 72-hour hold. I, I am way past that. And they just kept me there until finally a doctor came in on I think it was right after, uh, New Year's.

And I was like, can I go home please? I am tired of being here. Like, well, you have to start a medical regimen. I was like, I've been taking whatever meds you guys prescribed. Can I just leave? I'm tired of being here. And finally they're like, yeah, well, here's some resources. There's this program, it's, it's here in Lebanon. You, you go, it's therapy, you know, you— it's intensive therapy. You go to a place and You live there and you go to classes. I was like, I'll try it, sure. Uh, so I started taking their medication, whatever they prescribed, you know, blindly, not really knowing that I was numbing the emotions instead of actually feeling them. And I go to the— uh, I take like a couple days to gather my stuff, let my wife know, you know, I'm gonna go do this 30-day thing where it's 30 days I live there and it's therapy essentially. Intensive therapy. I was like, at this point I'll try anything. So I get there and it's, it's a bad experience in the sense where it's, it's a group, uh, it's a bunch of veterans, it's a group thing, and I'm opening up about some of my trauma and, and I'm, and I'm getting graphic because I don't care.

I, I've lived it in my mind long enough to where it doesn't bother me. And they're like, oh wait, wait, wait, wait, uh, no graphic details. It's like, what do you mean no graphic details? It's like, I am trying to express my, my thoughts and how I feel. And they're like, well, you're going to trigger other people. And I was like, isn't that what, what I'm here for? Isn't— how am I supposed to get through the problems if I don't talk about them? Yeah, you're supposed to do that on your one-on-one therapies, etc. I was like, well, what do you want me to do? They're like, well, just talk about it without getting into graphic details. Like, I don't think I can. Like, I was like, well, Uh, just, just wait until your one-on-one sessions. And that mentality was like, well, then I guess I'll just shut the fuck up and not say anything.

Right, right.

Yeah. So like, I was there for 10 days and I was just like, I'm sick of this place. I'm not learning anything. I am away from my wife and kids. I am doing more harm than good. I, I'm leaving. You guys are a waste of my time. You know, you guys, you guys aren't helping me the way I believe I should be helped. So I, I get out of there and While talking, while being there, they talk about a therapy called rTMS. It's essentially where they hook up a wire, electrical current, next to your brain, and it stimulates, uh, the fear factor part of your brain. And they explained to me, I was like, I'll try it, I got nothing to lose at this point. And at this point, I stopped drinking. I'm still flailing, you know, I'm still trying to fit— trying to find something to numb. And they tell me, you can't change your medication while you're doing this treatment. I was like, okay. I was like, what else can I change? They're like, you have to keep the same caffeine intake, same— keep the same routine no matter what. And at this time, I picked up medical marijuana, and I was using that to, to suppress a little bit, just to keep me from being completely unstable.

But I did that treatment. It's impossible. There is no way that someone who is not as strong-willed as people like us would make every appointment and maintain the level of rigidness that you need for you to drink coffee at the same time, you to keep the same routine. Like, I was going to these appointments and I was breaking down on my way there. Like, I was going through tears. Like, it was not easy because it was like a 3-hour drive every day, Monday to Friday, for 35 days. And I didn't believe in it. I didn't think it changed anything. It wasn't until like day 33 that I finally saw a change. Like, I, I started feeling emotions a little, a little bit brighter. Like, I could, I could like actually remember like incidents. Like, before it was just like I couldn't, I couldn't picture it. I couldn't like see the whole picture. And it was just a little bit more clear on like day 33. I started to feel a little more. But I still had like mental blocks where I'd remember bits and pieces. And that's when I started writing. Like, uh, the main reason I started writing was I wanted my kids to know the life I had.

And it's fucked up to say, it was, it was essentially a suicide note at one point, you know. I wanted them to understand why, why I took my own life, which I never did, obviously, but that's what it was. And through writing it, I got to realize why I am the way I am. You know, it wasn't by luck or chance that I am this messed up. But I did the TMS, and then I just leaned way too hard into medical marijuana, where I was smoking way too much that it was a medical marijuana-induced psychosis. I ended up in another psych ward, and it was just because I was hearing voices, like, like I was, I was picturing things. Yeah, like I was— it got to a point where I was listening to the song and the song was repeating the lyrics, uh, no one man should have all this power. And, uh, in my mind I already knew where I, where I would do it, you know, in the middle of the woods away from everyone so I wouldn't bother anyone. And subconsciously I was walking there.

Wow.

And I guess something clicked on my way there where it was like, stop, what are you doing? And I still had— I had these headphones on and it was playing that song, No One Managed to Have All This Power. And then when I get to the spot where I wanted to end my life, I— something stops me. And I was like, fuck it, just go to your room, go to bed, uh, do it tomorrow. That mentality, uh, I, I ran to my bedroom, I, I took off the headphones, I I disconnected everything. Like, I was that paranoid where I thought like people can hear me through the CPAP. And I told my wife about it. I was like, there's something wrong. I need to go check myself in. And I did. I ended up in another psych ward and it was the same thing. You know, I'm caged up again. I am not sleeping. CPAP all over again. And here I am not nice about it. I am, I am lashing out on anyone who is looking in my direction just because I am I'm so sick of being treated like, like, like I have a problem and no one's listening.

This time I came prepared. I took out the drawstrings out of my sweatpants. I brought my CPAP. I was— I, I, I, I dressed for the occasion, dressed for the job you wanted to have. But I get there and they don't give me my CPAP because if you have a CPAP, you have to have a room to yourself, and they didn't have the, the staffing, or they didn't have the room for it or the staffing for And I was like, I brought my CPAP, can I just have it to sleep? Like, I sleep better with it. And they're like, no, uh, we don't have the rooms for it. If you have a CPAP, you got to be in a room by yourself. I was like, you know what, whatever, it is fucking midnight, I just want to go to sleep. So they take me to a room and I have a roommate in there, and obviously I have trust issues, you know, I can't really sleep with someone sleeping next to me that has mental health problems. Uh, but I, I'm awake every 15 minutes all over again. And in the morning, I go up to the nurse and I was like, can I please just get my CPAP and a room to myself?

Like, I, I struggle from PTSD, anxiety, and depression. Like, this is making my situation worse. Like, yeah, no, you gotta wait till the doctor gets here, blah blah blah. I was like, can I please just go outside and touch some grass? Like, I am tired of being cooped up in here. Like, yeah, that's scheduled for this time. I was like, well, you gave me a pamphlet with the rules and regulations, and on the pamphlet it says if it's in line with my religion, I am allowed to touch grass. So fuck it, I'm religious now. I need to go touch grass. And they did not like that. They're like, well, now you're just trying to play the system. I was like, I'm gonna sue you guys if you guys don't let me touch grass. And, uh, she's like, fine, I'll go talk to the doctor. And They— I did a lot of back and forth with them. They're like, oh, you got to go to your classes. I was like, fine, I'll go to my classes. I was like, can I go touch grass now? They're like, no. I was like, I'm gonna touch grass whether you guys want me to or not.

Like, I'm gonna get violent if you guys keep talking to me this way. And they're like, well, now you're high risk. We're gonna switch it to a high-risk unit. I was like, can I, can I go fucking touch grass, please? And they're— they, they finally let me. They let me out there for— I shit you not, 30 seconds. And I get out there, I sit on the grass, and I'm finally feeling grounded again, you know. I'm feeling less violent. And they come back out, they're like, all right, time's up, you got to get to your class. I was like, I'm gonna hurt you if you keep talking to me like this. I could leave. I could jump this fence right now because it was outside. And I was like, I could jump this fence and just leave. I'm here voluntarily. I could have left whenever the fuck I wanted. And they're like, well, You're getting people worked up around here. We're going to switch you to the high-risk unit. And I get over here and it's, it's the same thing. It's just a bunch of people like me who are just like mad at the world.

And people are staring at me. You should not be staring at me. I am way too mad and sleep deprived for your bullshit. And I get there and there's one guy who's trying to establish dominance by eyeing me up and down. So I look at him, I was like, what the fuck are you looking at me for? You want to kiss me or what? And he's so confused by the statement that he's just like, what'd you say? I was like, you heard me. And he's like, I wasn't, I wasn't ready for that. I thought you were gonna try to fight me. I was like, I thought you were gonna try to fight me. And then we just talked it out and like we got over it. But I was stuck there. Like I was trying to leave for another day and the same thing, I asked for a pamphlet and then I just started crossing off all their rules and regulations and how they violated them. And the whole time I'm telling them, I was like, can I go home? Like I am, I am over the psychosis stuff. Like It was just that in-the-moment medical marijuana induced.

And they're like, no, you got to talk to a doctor. I was like, please, you're wrong. I know you're wrong. I am 201'd. I am here by— I'm voluntarily here. Please just let me go. And they're like, well, you need a safety plan. You needed someone to come pick you up. I was like, my wife will pick me up. Uh, here's her number. Just call her. And they're like, well, we can't do that without your consent. I was like, I am giving it to you. They're like, well, you need to fill out the paperwork. And finally they let me call her, and I called my wife. I was like, have they reached out to you? And she's like, no, no one's talked to me. You're the first person that's spoken to me. I was like, I asked them to call you like 3 different times. They're like, yeah, I tried calling, but I needed a code. I was like, yeah, I asked them for the code. They haven't gave it to me. And my, my wife is frustrated at this point. She's like, how do I get you out of there? I was like, I don't know.

I've been trying to get out of here since I got here. Yeah. Geez. And yeah, so, so it's just making the situation worse. They're like forcing me to classes. They're still not letting me touch grass.

You know, I mean, I hate to say it, Eduardo, but I bet they were getting paid. The hospital was getting paid more money to have that bed you were in occupied, and that's why they kept you there.

I don't disagree with you. I don't know the logistics behind it, but I just know it's wrong. Like, I know.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah. Even just for my mental sanity, like, I was so close to like actually hurting someone just because I couldn't control myself anymore just from the sleep deprivedness. And I had a lot of self-control where like, if for whatever reason you look at what my notes are, I was way more controlled than what I am saying just because I was masking so hard. Like, I was holding it back. Because I knew that I would stay there longer if I hurt someone, you know, they wouldn't let me leave. And then at the end of it, they finally let me leave. I talked to the patient advocacy guy and I was like, where the fuck have you been? I've been trying to talk to you for like 3 days now. And he's like, oh, I was on vacation, it was my days off, etc. I was like, well, I kind of needed you, and I don't need you anymore, but here's a book filled of all the mistakes this place is making. And they finally let me go. And my wife was like, yeah, I don't think I'll ever do that to you again. I'm sorry. I thought that was our best route.

I was like, no, I, I needed it, but that wasn't our best route. And then after that, I did— just to wrap it up, I did outpatient for 6 weeks where it was all— for the most part, it was virtual. And you just learn like coping mechanisms. You get to listen to other people's stories and then you just relate. And then through that, I realized, you know, not everyone is Like, uh, not everyone is out to get you, uh, thing, you know. There's other people hurting even though they weren't in the military. They understand like the pain we've been through and they related a lot of the times. And for me, it was a lot of the childhood trauma that, that really weighed on me. It wasn't, it wasn't too much of the military stuff. It was a lot of like— I could talk about the military stuff all day long, but the, the childhood traumas, a lot of the stuff I couldn't remember and Doing that therapy helped me remember a lot of it.

But— And the book is tentatively called The Demons Within, right?

Yeah, it's, it's definitely one of those things where it's all, it's all in your brain, you know, the, the good and bad, like, uh, however you want to picture it, you know, whatever religion you subscribe to. It's just mentality.

I, I read what you have so far that you, you know, you sent me prior to this interview. And, um, I'm looking forward and hoping that you get it out there when you're ready.

Yeah, it's just one of those things where I don't want to put out an unfinished product, you know. I wanted to have the—

Yeah, take your time.

Yeah, but now things are looking up, you know. I get to be a stay-at-home dad, you know. I get to spend time with my wife. I have a kid on the way. It's not all bad. I know, I know it sounds like I've been through hell, probably because I have been. Yeah, but I made it on the other side of it and things are looking better.

Oh, that's, that's terrific. I'm glad to hear it. Um, is there anything you want to shout out before we go? Do you want to tell people about like your Instagram page or anything else out there that you'd like to direct people to?

Uh, if you guys want to, you guys can have my Instagram. It's just my name. Eduardo, 2 underscores, my last name, Garduño. But I'm sure, I'm sure they'll find it if they want to find it.

Yeah, we'll put a link down in the description of the podcast. Um, but Eduardo, thank you for sharing your story, man. As you said, I mean, you've kind of been through hell. I know it's a lot to talk about, but I am glad, and I'm glad that other people are going to get to hear your story.

Yeah, no, I appreciate your time. I mean, I believe in what you're doing, and I truly believe the only way you heal is By talking about it.

Yeah, for sure, man. And there's a lot of other people out there who will hear this and, you know, it reminds them that they're not alone.

I agree.

Um, so for everyone else, thank you for joining us on the show tonight and, uh, we'll see you next week.

See you, brother. Take care.