Transcript of 646. The Fall of the Incas: Death to the Emperor (Part 3)

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Atahualpa speaks. Atahualpa needs. Nata Walpa commands. Bring him gold. From the palaces, from the temples, from all buildings in the great places, from walls of pleasure and roofs of omen, from floors of feast and ceilings of death. Bring him the gold of Quito and Pachamakakak. Bring him the gold of Kuzco and Coricancha. Bring him the gold of Vilcanota. Bring him the gold of Coli, of Amareis, an araquipa. Bring him the gold of the Chimu. Put up a mountain of gold and free your son from his prison of clouds. So that That was Chris from a plumber playing Atahualpa, Emperor of the Incas, in Peter Schaffer's play, The Royal Hunter of the Sun, which we've been hearing a lot of in this series. Atahualpa, in that scene, is summoning his people to one of the most memorable endeavors in the whole of world history. It's the scene that maybe as a child, you have a book of world history, and you read about it, and you think, Wow, that's mad. That couldn't possibly have happened. That is exactly what happened to me. I had a Book of World History, and there was Atahuelpa with Francisco Pizarro in a very cool hat and a beard.

They were chatting away, and they're in this room, and there's this piles of gold mounting up. And on the room, there is a white line that's been drawn around it. And you realize that Atahuelpa has to get enough gold to reach that white line. And Dominic, I have never forgotten it because the jeopardy is immense, isn't it? If he doesn't get enough gold to reach that white line, he's going to die. If he does get enough gold to reach that white line, well, what then? We will find out in today's episode, won't we?

Yeah, you're not wrong. This is exactly it. I had this encyclopedia of world history as a child, maybe the same one that you did.

Is it the R. J. Umsted Book of World History?

It probably was, actually. But he wrote all history books in the 1970s. In the 1960s and 1970s. So, yeah, it's a brilliant book. And there's this picture and there's this bloke gesturing at the wall. And they're He's filling it with golden llamas and stuff piling up. And if he fills the room, the Spanish will let him go. This is in Cajamarca, where he's been taken prisoner. And if he doesn't fill the room, they will burn him or garrot him. Basically, you can't wait to find out what happens next. You know what? This really happened, and this is the story we're telling in today's episode.

Brilliant.

Let's remind ourselves where we got to in the story, The Fall of the Incas. People will remember, Francisco Pizarro and his fellow conquistadors had arrived in Cajamarca in November 1533, and they'd hold up waiting for this bloke Atahuelpa, the Emperor of the Incas, who's been fighting a civil war against his brother Huascar.

Huascar is in a cage, isn't he, at this point, being brought from Cusco to where Atahalpa is.

Exactly. Cusco has been taken prisoner. Atahuelpa had won the Civil War, effectively. Now, Atahalpa made this grand entrance to the town square, which we described last time. There's this confrontation with the Dominican friar, Bithente de Valverde. Then the Spaniards charged into the square, and they took him prisoner, and they killed all his men. We ended with this bonkers scene where he's taken in dressed in new clothes to have dinner with Pizarro.

Then to curl up with him for the night.

Yeah, and then spend the night with him.

You suggested Pizarro was a snorer, which would just make things even worse, wouldn't it?

He's definitely a snorer. Pizarro's in his 50s. He's tall, he's broad, he's burly. I mean, that's a snorer, definitely.

Well, I think that description applies to me as well. I don't think I'm a snorer.

You're not burly. I mean, no one would call you burly in a million years.

People watching on YouTube will be able to see that.

See how burly Tom is, exactly. So we ended with Night Falling, The Carrying Crows Feasting on the bodies of the dead, and so on and so forth. And let's pick up straight away in the morning of the 17th of November, 1533. Atoalpa wakes, and he's in a state of shock. Clearly, Pizarro has got up first without disturbing him because he's taken in-Cup of tea? Yeah, to see Pizarro and the other Spanish captains. We found him full of fear thinking that we were going to kill him. Well, duh. Yeah. Pizarro says to Atoalpa this amazing thing. He says, Don't be sorrowful. He says, We Christians, we've gone to many countries, we've met many mighty rulers, and one way or another, we've made them all our friends and vassals, so you shouldn't be shocked that we've captured you. I don't know whether that's any consolation.

Well, I suppose it is because it suggests they're not going to kill him.

Well, hold on. If Atoalpa had said, Well, who's the most famous person you've treated in this manner? And they'd say, Well, Montezuma. At that point, his face might fall a little when he discovered the fate of the Emperor of the Aztecs.

Fair point.

So Attawapa says, Are you going to kill me. And Pizarro says, No, we're Christians, so that means we don't kill people in cold blood. We will see in this episode how true that is. And then, I think, disastrously for the Incas, generally, Atoalpa sends a message to his army, and he says, Do not flee, do not resist. Wait for my orders. I'm not dead. I'm in the power of the Christians. Later that morning, Pizarro's lieutenant, Hernando de Soto, who's described as swashbuckling or dashing. Posh. Yes. He ends up in Arkansas or thereabouts.

Looking for the fountain of youth.

Exactly. Soto goes off to the camp of the Atahuelpa Army, which is about 70 or 80,000 strong, supposedly. So they're outside the city. They offer no resistance when Soto turns up. They don't interfere with him at all. They just don't know what to do. They're completely bewildered. This has never happened before. These people who might as well have come from the moon have captured their Emperor. They're just stunned. Actually, following Ato Alpa's orders, which have clearly been drafted by the Spanish or interfered with by the Spanish, we're told that many of them dropped to their knees and made the sign of the cross, basically a sign of obedience to the Spaniards. So that's all great for Pizarro, even better. When Soto gets back to the town, Soto says, I found a lot of stuff in the camp, and I brought it with me. Eighty thousand pesos worth of gold, seven thousand marks worth of silver, and 14 emeralds. To quote the Spanish, The gold and silver were in monstrous effigies, large and small dishes, pitchers, jugs, basins, large drinking vessels, and various other pieces. Ateualpa said that this all came from his table service. So they've come back basically with Ateualpa's crockery.

And it dawns on the Spanish, I think at this point, my God, these people place no value on gold and silver other than esthetic. It's pretty, so these guys like it, and big wigs have it. But it has no monetary value to them because, of course, the Incas don't have money. And Ateualpa sees the Spanish eyes glittering with excitement. And this gives him an idea, and this goes back to your reading at the beginning, Tom. He says, well, if you love this stuff so much, and this is my crockery, I can give you much more of this if this means so much to you. And through these interpreters who are working for the Spanish, he says, I can give you more gold and silver than you could possibly dream of. And Pizarro says, Well, how much exactly? Then this famous moment, Atahuelpa. I can fill this room with gold as high as I can reach. He pretends to make a line on the wall with his hand. The Spanish sources say, The room measured 22 feet long by 17 feet wide, and it was to be filled to a white line halfway up its height, 8 feet high.

In other words, as high as Atahuelpa can reach. Atahuelpa said he would fill it with gold, jars, pots, tiles, and other pieces. He would also fill the room twice over with silver, and he would do all this within two months. So there's a time element to this. There's an element of jeopardy. Pizarro can't believe this. And he calls in one of his secretaries, a guy called Francisco de Jerez, and says, I want you to write this down, make a record. And then he says to Attawelpa, Great. If you do this, We will let you go. We will guarantee your life. And you can go back off to your northern heartland of Quito in Ecuador, and you can be king in the north there. And the Spanish are thinking, Well, this is an amazing result. Basically, if Atahuelpa can honor this, we'll get the gold. Because he's our prisoner and because people are bringing the gold, he'll be acquiescing in our overlordship. We'll turn him into our collaborator. We won't be attacked by his armies. And in the meantime, we can get reinforcements from Panama or even from Spain. Now, this is important because Atta Welper, I think, has no sense that the Spanish are the first of many.

He thinks they are brigands, readers, pirates. I don't think it ever occurs to him, or indeed to any of the Incas, that more of these bearded men will come in their floating castles or whatever they call them.

But that makes him sound very naive. But you can understand why he would have no comprehension of what Europe is or any of that. But you can see reasons why, from his point of view, this is a shrewd policy because, firstly, it requires the Spaniards to accept that he is a legitimate heir. Because if the Spaniards are using him as their mouthpiece, it's a acknowledgement that he's the rightful Emperor. Also, he specified two months. It is actually going to take much longer. So there's a sense that he's spinning it out. And also, if these messengers are going out, then they can communicate his wishes to his people and bring back messengers to him. And also, over the process of time, he will start to target areas of the empire that he wants targeted, because it's notable, isn't it, that he never once sends messengers up to Quito, up to his own areas. They're always going out to places that essentially he's targeted for destruction.

Yeah, exactly right. He's still, I think, a really important point, actually, that you made there. I think he is trapped by the context of the Civil War, intellectually. He sees everything through the prison of his struggle with Huascar, of finishing off the Civil War and then cementing his control over the empire. The Spanish are not exactly an irritation. They're obviously more than that.

But they're a factor, aren't they?

Yes, they're a factor. The wider story, as he sees it, is the Civil War, which he thinks the Spanish don't really understand. I think the Spanish think the Civil War is an incidental detail in their big story.

We will see who's right.

We will see who's right. So the orders are sent out across the empire. Send your gold and silver to Cajamarca. And in the meantime, Atoalpa settles down to wait with Pizarro and the other conquistadors. And again, it is very similar to the stories of Cortés and Co. With Montezuma. Their relations actually are not terrible. The Spanish are clearly fascinated by Atahuelpa. They write long descriptions of him in their memoirs and chronicles and things. They're fascinated by his appearance and so on. We know that he's probably in his early 30s. He's a big man. He's an alpha male. He had a large face, handsome and fierce. His eyes reddened with blood. He spoke with much gravity. He made many lively arguments. He was a cheerful man, although unsuttle. And the unsuttility is reflected in an entertaining way. So one of the conquistadors, Cristobal de Menya, records that Attawalpa's favorite possession was the severed head of Atoch, who was one of his brother's generals. I quote, Its teeth were closed and held a silver spout. On top of the head was attached a golden bowl. Attawalpa liked to drink from it when thinking about the war against his brother.

His servants poured the chicha, that's a beer made from maize, into the bowl and it came out through the spout. Would you drink from the severed head of one of your-Of course, you would.

Yeah, I think I would. Yeah, so would I. Yeah. I mean, it's actually given me quite a few ideas.

There's some Oxford College, isn't there? Where it turned out recently, I wrote a column about it in the Times. It turned out that they were drinking after senior common room dinners or something. They were drinking from the severed head of somebody that had been given to the college? Did you see this?

I didn't.

It was a skull. If you got a skull, you might as well use it. Do you know what? I'm going to look this up. I'm going to do some live research.

Has it been sent back for dignified burial?

Professor Dan Hicks, I think.

Of course, yes. He'd be very against that.

Yeah, woke professor campaigned against it. Worcester College, Worcester College. I wrote a column for the Times with the excellent headline, Drinking from Skulls is a noble tradition.

Well, it is. It clearly is. It absolutely is. And Atahalpa is part of a proud Latin-American tradition.

He is. And he's a bright fellow because actually we learned that one of the Spanish conquistas said he's the most educated and capable Indian that's ever been seen to such an extent that he plays chess very well. So they taught him chess. Oh, really? Yeah. He sounds like a tremendous companion. Francisco Pizarro's page, who was a cousin of his, a teenager called Pedro, he wrote down an account of Atahalpa's Daily Ritals, which is actually really interesting. Atahalpa would sit on this little stool, and he was always attended by beautiful young women. They would bring him his food in golden bowls. He'd point at what he wanted, and then they would feed him with their bare hands. If he wanted to spit afterwards, he would spit into their hands, and they would to hold out their cupped hands.

I think he's a model for a relaxed lifestyle. Yeah. Live your life the Inca way.

Yeah. Inca Lounge core.

Well, so talking of Inca Lounge Yeah. Yeah. He has some interesting fashion materials, doesn't he?

He has these lovely soft tunics and robes made from the skin of vampire bats. You do wonder whether the Spanish is slightly exaggerating here, but then there's this nice detail. So when he's worn anything or when he's eaten anything, they gather everything up. And this includes basically the stuff that he's spat out and also even the rushes that have been placed on the floor under his feet. And they put them in a special leather chest. Pedro said, I asked why they kept all this. They told me it was in order to burn it. Anything touched by the ruler, the Son of the Sun, was reduced to ashes and thrown to the wind since no one else was allowed to touch it. I mean, even by the standards of Spanish royalty.

You thought that was excessive.

But it goes to a very important point, something that's very useful to the Spaniards, the absolute authority of the Sapa Inca. Because by becoming Sapa Inca, you effectively become... Are you a God? You're adjacent to a God, I suppose.

You're an intermediary between the dimensions of the earthly and the supernatural. Dominic. To coin a phrase.

Exactly. Like the great speaker of Tenochtitlan, Montezuma, had been in exactly the same position. There's no other real source of authority. This means that basically the Spaniards now control the only source of authority, unless you're one of the Huascar faction, the only source of authority between Ecuador and Northern Chile. It means it's very hard for somebody else to challenge them. Effectively, the Incas, 12 million people maybe, are completely leaderless with Ato Elpa as a prisoner. The Spanish use this to their advantage. As they did in Mexico, they allow him to receive, as you mentioned, to receive messengers, to receive tribute. They let his advisors come and go. So these blokes turn up with these massive ear spools in their ears and all of this.

Dominic, we're not the rest is ants, are we?

No, never. Pretend it to be.

I think there's a parasitic ant that will invade a rival ant colony and will take captive the head of the ants, either kill it or whatever, and then just take over the whole ant heat, lock, stuck, and barrel. There's maybe a parallel between the Spanish and paracetic ants.

That's a very compelling natural history parallel. Well done. I enjoyed that. It was worth the five-minute break in recording to Google that.

Yeah, but I knew what to Google, right?

You did. You deserve all the credit.

It's the thing that goes on in the rainforests of South America.

Yes. To the sound of the panpipes, surely. So even Atahalpa's generals, because don't forget, there's been civil war. Even his generals act as though nothing has changed. It's important for people to realize there are the various armies roaming around. So two of Atahalpa's key generals who will play a part in the next couple of episodes are in the south. There's a guy with the excellent name of Kiskeis, who has just captured Kusko. And there's another commander, basically the commander-in-chief, the oldest of the commanders, who's called Chalkuchima. Chalkuchima is midway between Kusko and Cahimaca. Both of these guys have about, I don't know, 40,000 men or something. Now, there's a third general who we don't need to worry about right now, called Rumunyaoui, who is much further north. He's in Quito, in the home base of the Atahuelpa side of the Civil War divide. Atahuelpa says to these three generals, Stay where you are. Don't interfere with the ransom. Wait for it to be collected. The foreigners will go once the ransom is paid, and we can get on with the business of finishing for the war, killing our enemies and cementing control of the empire.

The question, I suppose, is, would his generals have tried to rescue him anyway? I would guess, probably not, because everybody is so disorientated and baffled. In his brilliant book, The Conquest of the Incas, John Hemming makes the excellent point that basically, in most places the Europeans concurred, Europeans had arrived multiple times before they actually turned up for good. Missionaries had come, traders, envoices. What's very unusual about the conquest of Peru is basically the Spanish do it all in one go. So these generals have literally never seen a European. They've never heard of a European until they hear some mad If guys with beards have turned up and captured the Emperor, they didn't even know Europe existed.

But what do you think they find more disorientating? The fact that Europeans have turned up with beards and stuff, or the fact that they have dared to seize the Emperor and keep him as a hostage? Because in a sense, that must be the thing that's really destabilizing because there's nothing in their history or their ideology or their experience that would enable them to know what to do in such a scenario.

As we will see, they didn't even look the Emperor in the eye. The Emperor doesn't meet their eye when he talks to them. So the idea that these guys will have laid hands on him, dragged him out of his litter, and then forced him to sleep next to them, that's the biggest twist of all. Now, you mentioned that Huascar was being brought north under guard. In a cage. Yes. So Pizarro, when Ateu Alpa tells him this, Pizarro says, Do not harm your brother, because Pizarro obviously thinks, Wow, if I get both of them, I can make them fight. Well, sleep with one on each side. Who knows? But Ateu Alpa has no intention of allowing his brother to fall into the Spanish hands because, of course, he worries that they might prefer his brother. So he sends orders to the people who are bringing Huascar up at a place called Andamarca, which is south of Kayamaka in the mountains. Huascar is murdered by his guards and his body is thrown into the river.

So that's a great example of how Atahalpa, even as a captive, is still able effectively to rule the empire because all these messengers are going out, break, making his commands.

Exactly right. It's also a good example of how Atahalpa is not this saintly martyr. Atahalpa is a very hard man.

No, I think we've established he's not a saintly martyr.

Atahalpa sends orders, carry on with the hits, basically. So some of his other half brothers, some of his other relatives, are knocked off in the next few weeks. To us, to subsequent historians, they say, Isn't this insane that Atahalpa is still pursuing his crazy factualism after he's been taken prisoner in the face of this existential foreign threat, but he doesn't think it is an existential foreign threat. He thinks the Civil War is the priority, and hopefully in the long run, he thinks maybe he could turn this to his advantage.

But I think also in a Civil War, perhaps you hate the people you're fighting much more than you do foreign intruders.

Yeah, I don't think he hates the Spanish. I think he's completely confused by them. Let's move on a few weeks to January 1533. A treasure is now arriving in Cahimaca. That's jugs, plates, bowls, all these things made of gold. The Spanish start breaking them up when they arrive so they can fit more and more in the room. They want to cram it into the room. Ateu Alpa says to them, What are you doing? Why are you doing that? I will give you so much gold, you'll be sated with it. But some of the Spanish say, A few weeks have gone by, mate. We haven't seen as much gold as we hoped. Ateu Alpa says, Well, I can tell you two places in particular where you'll get gold. They're two of the most sacred temples in the empire. One of them is the shrine and oracle of Pachakamak, which is near the Coast, near what's now Lima. The other is the Sun temple of Korekantcha in Cusco. I think both of these you mentioned, Tom, in your excellent Christopher Plumber reading. And the reason Attawapa wants to surrender these two places in particular goes back to the point about the Civil War.

So Cusco, the Sun temple there, the most famous temple and religious site in the Andean world. Why does he want to surrender that? Because he's probably never even been to Cusco. Cusco is his brother's city, his brother's heartland.

Well, he was planning to wipe Cusco out, wasn't he?

Yeah, exactly.

So get the Spanish to do it for him.

Yeah. He represents the north of this empire, not the south. And he just thinks, well, this is a brilliant way of punishing Cusco for backing my brother. Yeah.

It's like someone in Manchester saying, destroy London.

Exactly. And then the other one, Patrick Amak. Amusingly, the priests at this Oracle had made some disastrous predictions. They basically had the crystal ball that I used to use in my associated newspaper's days. First of all, they had said that his father, Hwena Capack, would recover of small pox. He promptly died. They told Huasca that he would beat Atahuelpa. As we've discovered, Huasca ended up in a cage. And they told Atahuelpa that foreigners would arrive and he would easily defeat them. So Hwatawelpa says, this oracle is absolutely useless. Actually, there's a funny story. The high priest, apparently, went to Kiamak to see Atahuelpa. And Atahuelpa upraded him in front of the Spanids and said, your predictions are terrible. You're absolutely worthless. Of course, I'm going to take all your gold. You've absolutely You've ashamed yourselves.

But also, Atahuelpa has started to fathom Spaniard's religious motivation, and he fires them up for stacking these temples by saying that the gods worship there are demons. Yes, exactly. So that's another way in which he can get his vengeance on priesthoods that he feel are against his rule.

Actually, the interesting thing is, so Pachicamak. Pachicamak dates back for more than a thousand years before the Incas. This is not an Inca shrine. It's part of the Andean world, but it's not part of their official state-sponsored sun religion, which they've been really trying to impose across the empire in recent decades.

There's a slight owl man quality to it as well, isn't there? The owl man is the the figure in the Aztec story where you unleash the owl man and the world will end, but at least you'll destroy your enemies, and he gets shot, and that's the end of the owl man. There's a prophecy that if the temple at Pachicahamac is attacked, then are A universal flood will wipe out the entire world.

That's right, yes.

Therefore, if a tribute isn't paid to this temple, then it will be disastrous. Essentially, the Spanish, by sending people to loot it, are putting that prophecy to the test. If they're wrong, then a universal flood will destroy all of life on Earth. So the stakes are quite high.

They are high. Pizarro sends his brother, Hernando, to this shrine, a Pachicamack on the Coast. It's good for us that he did because some of the guys that went with Hernando wrote these fantastic memoirs of the conquest. A guy called Miguel de Estete. They write these really... There's some of the first really lyrical descriptions of the South American landscape.

There's a brilliant description of the road over the Andes. The Highlands are described as truly a land so muddy that it's like has not been seen in Christendom. So they obviously not been to Somerset in January.

No, clearly not. They go to the sanctuary and Estete said it was basically the top of an adobe pyramid, and he was very underwhelmed by it. He said, It was very dark and it didn't smell very pleasant. A very small, rough cavern. Seeing the filth and mockery of the idol, we went out to ask why they thought highly of something so dirty and ugly. Actually, there was no treasure there at all. If there was any treasure, the priests had hidden it, and the Spanish, they'd just smashed the whole place up.

And is there a universal flood?

No, not at all. Ananda then sets off back to Cahimaca. Actually, the distances in this story are absolutely mad. So Anand, though, has just traveled 800 miles. He's got 800 miles to go back. And he's going back to Cahimaca. And then he discovers that at a place called Xauxa, at a welp as Commander-in-Chief, this guy, Chalku'chima, is blocking the mountain road with about 35,000 men. Now, Chalkechima is the most experienced of all Attawalpa's generals. He's basically the grizzled veteran character in a fantasy novel or something. I served your father, that thing.

Yes.

That's his vibe.

So the character who is honorable but ultimately doomed, would you say, in a science fiction story?

Completely. That's completely what he is. Exactly right. He's like that Jora Mormont or whatever in Game of Thrones, that figure. John Hemming says, Chalkechima is the one man who might have united the Empire against the Spaniards because he's the one man who's not entirely defined by the Civil War because he had served Attawalp as father. In other words, what Chalkechima does now is very important. And Ando arrives in Chauja with his men. They've done this mad journey. They've climbed 16,000 feet up into the Andes. They've been trudging through snow. They're absolutely shattered. There are only a few dozen of them, and Chalkechima has more than 30,000 men. They arrive in Chauja, and there's this festival going on. There's people dancing and singing, and they ignore the Spanish. So the Spanish hang around a bit, and then finally, Chalkechima arrives with his senior officers. We have a description of him from the later chronicler, Thietha de Leon, who says he was a muscular man with a broad back, a fierce expression, and a short, very thick neck. So he looks like a rugby player, basically. And Nando says to Chalkechima, Atahalpa wants you to come with us to Kayimaka.

And Chalkechima says, No, no, what? I'm not going with you. I haven't had any orders to say I should go with you. They have a massive argument all night. The Spanish think, Well, if he doesn't, if he attacks us, we're pretty much be doomed because he's got 30,000 men and we've got 20 men or something. But the mad thing is when the dawn breaks, Chalkechima returns and says, Yeah, actually, I've been thinking about it. I will come with you to Kayimaka. Fair enough.

One possible influence on him, do you think, is the fact that the local people here are anti-Atahualpa. Yes. So they had not been backing them. And these are the Wanka people.

Do you know, I actually omitted all mention of these people. The Wanker? For precisely This is this reason because I thought you would get too much-I don't find it funny at all? Schoolboyish pleasure from the existence of these people.

There's nothing funny about it, but I think the role of the wanker in this story is one that we shouldn't overlook.

No. And indeed in this podcast, we shouldn't overlook it at all. Because the wankers will be back, won't they? Yeah, well, they will. I was hoping they won't, but clearly you're going to bring them back in.

It's all about detail, Dominic. It's about the granular level.

Anyway, why has Chalkechima? He hasn't just done it because of the presence of the Wanka. He's also going with them, I think, because he's been completely thrown by the Spaniard's presence, by their very existence. He doesn't know what to do. When they say, Attawelpa has sent for you, He's taking a risk if he doesn't go. So he decides he'll go with them. As John Hemming says, This decision was a tragic mistake, one of the turning points in the collapse of resistance of the Spanish invaders, for by riding out of Shauwcha with this deceptively small band of strangers, Chalkechima delivered himself into captivity and death. Oh, dear. But not at first. At first, they treat him with tremendous friendship, and they ride together across the great scenery of the Cordillera Blanca, past the sources of the Amazon, all this thing, and they finally get to Cajamarca, and the other Spaniards say, Oh, brilliant. You're back. Great to see you. Chalcuchima, at this point, probably is beginning to think, Did I make the right choice in game with these guys? Because they take him into Seattle welpa. Chalkechima is overcome with emotion to see the great Inca, and he, and I quote, Raised his hands to the sun to give thanks for being allowed to see him again.

He went up to him with great reverence, weeping and kissed him on the face, hands and feet, and the other chiefs who had come with him did the same. But Atahuelpa won't even look him in the face. Now, this is standard for the Inca. The Inca doesn't normally look at commoners in the eyes, but the Spanish can see that Atahuelpa is gutded, that his best commander has just walked straight into captivity alongside him. Actually, now for Chalga Chima, the smiles on the faces of his Spanish friends begin to fade.

It is odd that Atahuelpa didn't send him a message and say, Don't do it.

It's hard when your communicating only by knotted strings, no?

Yeah, I suppose.

I mean, this is the issue if they develop writing and maybe a different story. So the Spanish now say to Chalkechima, Right, the gloves are off now. Where's your gold? We would like more of your gold. And Chalkechima said, I don't have any. I mean, what gold I have, I brought with me. Soto, and we told, took him aside and threatened to burn him unless he told the truth. He gave the same answer as before. They put up a steak and tied him to it and brought a firewood and straw, saying they would set fire to him unless he told the truth. Then there's this terrible scene. Chalkechima breaks down and he says, Get the Emperor. They bring out the Emperor. Attawalpa comes out and says, Don't worry, don't listen to these Spanish. They're bluffing. They won't burn you. The Spanish promptly set him on fire. And we're told- Gusts of laughter. Yeah. They cut him down after a few moments, and they dragged him to Anando Pizarro's lodging. So this is the bloke who's been traveling with him. His legs and arms burned and his tendons shriveled. We're told that Anando was quite nice to him and tended him.

I mean, this is a skill, it turns out the Spaniards have, isn't it? Is burning human bodies to just the right degree.

Exactly. I like grilling. He's not dead, but I have to tell you that for Chalkechima, And indeed, for Attawelpa, there is not going to be a very happy ending.

So I think on that note, we should take a break. There is so much to play for, and we will find out who triumphs, the Spaniards or Attawelpa after the break. This episode is brought to you by Claude, by Anthropicic. Now, history lives in the contradictions.

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Yes, Dominic. I've always been fascinated by the question of how humans came to make and use fire. How did that originate? A tremendous discovery was announced just last year that the place where it seems fire was invented was Suffolk.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to The Book Club, a new podcast from Goalhanger, hosted by me, Dominic Sandbrooke.

And me, Tabitha Sierad. As some of you may know, I've been Dominic's producer on The Rest is History, and we even did a mini series last year about all things books.

And since we enjoyed that so much, we have decided to roll it out as its own show. So it'll be coming out every Tuesday. We'll be doing a different book each time and digging into all the stories behind them.

And we are going be talking about the historical contexts behind some of the greatest and most famous books of all time. We're going to be digging into the remarkable people behind them, the unexpected stories behind the stories, and also unraveling the plot of each book a bit and delving into the depths of the story.

Now, you don't have to have read the books to listen to the show, but we hope that by the end of each episode, you will be able to pretend to people that you've read them. That is the key thing. And either way, whether you read them or not, we hope that you'll learn lots of fascinating facts, you'll be lots of great stories, and maybe Tabi, the odd laugh.

We will be looking at thrilling gothic bodice rippers like Wuthering Heights and Frankenstein, as well as iconic stories like the Great Gatsby or Little Women. And then also some more modern stuff. So Game of Thrones, Normal People, The Hunger Games, Hamlet, all manner of exciting stories.

So please join us on our journey into all things books wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for The Book Club every Tuesday, and hopefully, we will see you there. But what I'm Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Book Club, a new podcast from Gold Hangar, hosted by me, Dominic Sandbrooke.

And me, Tabitha Sierad. As some of you may know, I've been Dominic's producer on The Rest is History, and we even did a mini-series last year about all things books.

And since we enjoyed that so much, we have decided to roll it out as its own show. So it'll be coming out every Tuesday. We'll be doing a different book each time and digging into all the stories behind them.

And we are going to be talking about the historical contexts behind some of the greatest and most famous books of all time. We're going to be digging into the remarkable people behind them, the unexpected stories behind the stories, and also unraveling the plot of each book a bit and delving into the depths of the story.

Now, you don't have to have read the books to listen to the show, but we hope that by the end of each episode, you will be able to pretend to people that you've read them. That is the key thing. And either way, whether you read them or not, we hope that you'll learn lots of fascinating facts, you'll be lots of great stories, and maybe Tabi, the odd laugh.

We will be looking at thrilling, Gothic, bodice rippers like Wuthering Heights and Frankenstein, as well as iconic stories like the Great Gatsby or Little Women, and then also some more modern stuff. So Game of Thrones, Normal People, the Hunger Games, Hamlet, all manner of exciting stories.

So please join us on our journey into all things books wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for The Book Club every Tuesday, and hopefully we will see you there.

Hello, and welcome back to The Rest is History. It is April, 1533, and for weeks now, the gold of the Incas has been rolling into this room that has a white line round it. The gold has to reach that white line or else, Atoalpa is going to be killed. Dominic, every day, that hoard is getting higher, isn't it? Because you've got streams of porters, streams of llamas, and they are just bringing in gold from across Peru and beyond.

They are, and Atahalpa is watching a It's great satisfaction because with every new convoy, surely the day of his freedom is approaching. But the gold porter is not the only new arrivals in Cahier Marca. Just before Easter, a familiar face joins this merry party. This is Pizarro's business partner, Diego Del Magro. We had to describe him in episode one. He's short, he's ugly, he's flamboyant, so he's colorfully dressed, but he's also very boastful and boarish.

John Reece Davies. Yes. Who played Gimli.

Exactly. Now, remember, the deal was that he would get reinforcements in Panama, and he would come along later. This is precisely what he's done. He's arrived with 150 Spaniards with a load more horses and some royal officials who are basically going to report back to the court in Spain to Charles IV. So this has massive implications now for both Pizarro and Attawelpa. So Pizarro now has his business partner on hand, who he has screwed over from the very beginning because he got himself the title of governor, but basically was it Commandant of a Fort? Was something like his title for his business partner. And Al Magro, throughout this whole thing, he's paranoid that he's going to be cut out of the loot. Now Attawelpa, when he sees these guys arrive, he obviously needs to recalibrate because clearly, there are a lot more Spaniards out there, and he can tell they're not just going to go away when they've got the gold. This is not just a raid. This looks more like an invasion. And at this point, Attawalpa says to Pizarro, Are you going home or are you going to stay?

I mean, it's been great having you, but-Yeah.

When are you leaving?

So I check out the train times.

For the first time, Pizarro says to him, We are going to stay and we are going to divide up your workers, your people, among ourselves. This is a huge shock for Atahuelpa. Pizarro says, Don't worry, we will leave the northern bit, the province of Quito, to you. That's your heartland. It'll be your kingdom. But Atahuelpa, for the first time, thinks, I believe these guys. They are not going to want to this agreement.

Is he starting to think, Can I even trust them to set me free when the line gets reached?

Exactly. Now, all the time, the gold has been rolling in, as you said. And at the first week of May, 1533, Brizarro orders his men to start melting it down. This is an incredible operation. They've built nine huge forges under Spanish supervision. Inca Smiths are going to do it, and they are feeding the fires all day, all night, seven days a week for seven weeks with more than £600 of gold a day. So that's a total of 11 tons. We're talking about vases, figurines, idles, monuments, necklaces, you name it. These are beautiful artifacts because we know from the very few that were preserved, the high standard of Andean gold craftsmanship.

Such a tragedy.

Imagine what it would be like to have those things. The Spanish turned them into bars that would be stamped with the royal symbol. And there were going to be 13,500 pounds of gold bars, 16,000 pounds of silver bars, which are all destined to be shipped back to Spain. Now, you remember that I mentioned that Ateu Alpa had offered them two temples. So one is Pachicamak, which we talked about last time, and the other was the Sun temple of Coricancha in Cusco. And he has now persuaded Pizarro, send some men to Cusco, to this Sun temple. Cusco is a hell of a long way away, 750 miles across the central Andes.

Not for people who've been going 800 miles.

Well, I guess. Yeah, except you're going across the mountains, which is hard. Yeah, true. So when he gets a message from Anando, his brother, to say Pachicamak is no good, there's no goal, Pizarro says, Okay, fine, we'll do it. And he sends three volunteers. Three. I know, three volunteers with an escort all the way across the Andes south to Cusco. And they get there in early April and they're greeted by Attawalp as general, Kisquis, who is occupying Kuzco. We'll talk a lot about Kuzco next time, so we don't need to massively go into it now. But just to talk about the temple, Kodakancher. This was the holiest place that there was for the Incas. It's the temple of the Sun. The Inca, of course, is the the Son of the Sun. There is this herb garden, there's a convent, there's an astronomical observatory. John Hemming calls it the Mecca of the Inca Empire, because pilgrims would come from all over the Andes to visit this place. Even though Kiskeis is a Northerner who's put Cusco under military occupation. He's shocked when the Spaniards say, We've come to basically rip out the gold from this temple.

I mean, imagine they turn up in Mecca and say, We've been sent to despoil the mosque. It didn't go down well.

Not at all. They're very rude. He's very shocked that they're on Kuth and they abuse the women of the temples. That's all we're told. I think we can guess, given the Spanish behavior earlier in the last episode, exactly how badly behaved they are with the women of the temples.

Seems incomprehensible. They're not just lynched.

I know, and there's only three of them. Insane, isn't it? The mad thing is, Kisky says, Okay, fair enough. His men fetch tools so that these Spanish guys with crowbars can take these giant gold plates off the walls of the temples.

I mean, isn't it that Kiske is actually... He's in command of an occupying force? Yeah. Presumably, shares Attawalpa's contempt for what Kusco represents. I'm sure. So in a sense, maybe the Spaniards are doing dirty work that he can't actually do.

I suppose, maybe.

Because I cannot comprehend how they would be allowed to do this otherwise. Yeah, maybe.

I think the fact that he's a Northerner definitely is a factor, and he's commanding and occupying an army. But even so, he's part of the Inca world. He believes in the cult of the sun. He's part of that cosmological ecosystem. But they tear it all down. So these great plates, they're about two and a half feet long. They weigh £5 each. They're beautifully decorated, we're told, with images of trees and flowers and things like that. Solid gold. The Spaniards tear it all down. They get hundreds of supporters to carry it back. Of course, no wheels, no carts in Peru.

God for llamas. Yeah.

They have hundreds of supporters carrying these things, literally like trudging across the mountains carrying these great gold plates. They've got these pallets basically loaded with gold and silver. When they get back to Cajimaca, Pizarro and the people in Cajimaca I just can't believe their eyes. This stream of porters with all the gold of Cusco, £14,000 of gold, £26,000 of silver, combined, 20 metric tons of treasure. At this point, Attawalpa's ransom is unquestionably the biggest ransom ever paid. There's a rabbit hole of economic history where people have tried to quantify how much this is. At the lowest, it's billions of dollars or pounds in today's money. At the highest, it is tens and tens of billions. I mean, it's almost impossible to a figure on it.

Pizarro is part of that Chevaleric culture where transoms are taken for granted. He is so hit the jackpot with this one. It puts Francis I. Exactly. Very, very low rent.

It's as though somebody has basically said to him, How much ransom would you like? And he said, I don't know, a hundred billion pounds.

Billion, zillion, trillion. Yeah.

And they've said, Okay, we've got it. Here it is. The three Spaniards who turned up back in Cahimark and say, Do you know the mad thing? This is only a fraction of the gold in Cusco. They said there was so much gold in all the temples of the city that it was marvelous. They would have brought back much more of it, but it would have detained them longer. And they said, We've already taken steps to start hoarding it. We've got a big storehouse there. We've got blokes guarding it. Great. Pizarro and Almalcro say, Oh, my God. So Cusco is next. So this is the thing, see, they're going to want to go on to Cusco. On the 17th of June, Pizarro starts to share out the gold. A fifth of it is set aside for the Crown. After that, all of his horsemen will get £90 of gold, that's 40 kilos, and they'll get £180 of silver, 81 kilos. Anyone who's not a horseman gets half of this, except for the priests and friers who get even less. I don't know why.

They're pledged to poverty.

I suppose so. And of course, the big weeks get a lot more. So Nande de Soto gets double. Francisco Pizarro gets seven times what a horseman gets, and he gets Atoelpa's solid gold thrown, which is very expensive.

And Tom, what about Diego Almagro, who's turned up and has been systematically frozen out?

So Almagro says to Pizarro, I think the fair thing to do would be to split this equally between us, between your men and my men. And Pizarro says, I don't know, because we did all the dirty work by arriving and catching that to help her, and you came late. So I think what would be best is for you to get just a little token amount. And this is what happens. He gives him a few trinkets, a few crumbs from his table.

Remind You know what the balance of power is between them.

So Al Magro has turned up with about 150 men. Pizarra has a few more, actually. Pizarra has something like 167, 168.

Because it's amazing in that situation that they don't turn on each other.

Yes. Well, if you're looking for them to turn on each other, Tom, I've got great news for you. There'll be a lot of turning on each other to come.

I mean, if I was a Magro.

Yeah, you'd go mad. You'd say, What? This was always our deal that I would come later, and I come later now and you cut me out. There's an argument that Al Magro is being a bit naive. This is how conquistadors always behave. They always stab each other in the back, and you have to be on hand. Actually, Pizarro is a shrewd guy. For somebody who's basically is illiterate and he's come from nowhere, he's not a fool. Because he straight away knows, I must get the King on side. I don't want to be Cortés and end up in constant lawsuits. I must have royal approval. So he gets his brother, Hernando, and he gives him a written report. Obviously, his secretary has written this for him, and he gives him a load of gold, and he gives him some and he says, go back to the Coast, go to Panama, then sail on to Spain with all this gold, with this report, go to see the king, get him to re-approve my governorship of this province because we cannot afford to be cut out by somebody else. There's a downside, though, if Anando Pizarro, his brother, is going off, because Attawalpa has become great pals with Anando.

They're both alpha males, and they've bonded over, I don't know, drinking from their skull.

Skulls, vampire bats, gilets.

Yeah, exactly. Red trousers made of vampire bats, while just spitting into the hands of beautiful women. Watching the ruger together. Yeah, exactly. Attawalpa, actually, burst into tears. And he says, I'm worried that with you gone, the others will kill me.

So he's starting to wake up to that possibility then.

And Ando says, I'm sure they won't kill you. No, I've promised you they won't kill you. But once he's gone, Attawalpa gets very miserable. He He supposedly sees this comet, which foreshadows his death. I think that probably didn't happen. But what did happen, he is extremely concerned about Al Magro, because Al Magro didn't capture him, has not spent time with him. It's just impatient to push onto Kuzco and get his own share of the gold. Now, what happens next is a very murky story, so we'll try to find our way through it. One of the murky stories of the whole conquest. What happened to Attawelpa? Attawelpa said to Pizarro around this point, You've pretty much got what you came for. Most of the ransom has arrived now. I think you can set me free a little bit. Give me a bit more freedom to walk around and stuff. Now, there are stories in some sources that one of the interpreters, called Feli Pio, had fallen in love with one of Atahuelpa's mistresses and basically wanted Atahuelpa out of the way. So he starts telling the Spanish, Oh, Atahuelpa is betraying you. Atahuelpa is planning to escape.

He's planning to team up with Rumunyawe, who's his commander in Quito, who's the guy in the north. It's It's possible this is just a literary device. This didn't really happen. But even if it didn't happen, there is a genuine issue that it points to, which is the Spanish have become, as time has gone on, more and more anxious about their position in Cajamarca. They've got all this gold now, which they're sitting on, but they're very conscious that they're outnumbered, and they are very worried about an attack from the north. So this guy, Rumunyaoui, who's in Ecuador, who is the commander of the army there, they become very worried that he's basically Jimmy Carter of this story. And he's going to launch a Delta Force-style Operation Eagle Claw rescue to spring Attawalpa from his prison in Kaya Marca. Now, if they were students of history and they'd listen to our series on the Iranian Revolution- No, nothing to worry there. They would know there was nothing to worry about. Actually, I have to say, as we will discover next time, two more different people than Rumunyaoui and Jimmy Carter could not be a imagined. I mean, Rumunyaoui would never appear on TV in a cardigan to tell you to turn the thermostat down.

He would turn you into a drum. That's what he would do.

There's a little preview for the next episode.

Rumurs start to flood into Kaya Marca that Rumunyawe is on his way south. At one The local chief says to Pizarro, Men are coming under a great commander called Rumunyawe, 200,000 people from Quito, and 30,000 Caraibbs who eat human flesh.

Yeah, so the cannibals are coming. Yeah.

The Spanish, of course, take this seriously. Why wouldn't they? It's mad that the Atahuelpa's armies haven't attacked them. Surely, they think only a matter of time before Atahuelpa's armies decide they're going to try and rescue him.

But I guess ultimately, the issue comes down to, are they likely to survive if Atahuelpa is dead? Or if they release him, can they trust him to be their protector? That's exactly right. I mean, that's ultimately the decision.

They can't make up their minds. Pizarro, I think, in particular, is very conflicted. They want to go to Cusco to get more gold. So what do they do with Ato Alba? They could leave him behind. That's so risky. He'll just turn on them, surely. They can see he's a hard man. Or number two, they could take him with them across the mountains. But that's risky, too. Here we're focused for resistance. People will try to rescue him. It's so dangerous. The obvious answer, the simplest and cleanest, just get rid, kill him. That's what Cortés and Co did with Montezuma. I think that's what Cortés and Co did. The only thing that cuts The answer to that is, if they wanted to just get rid of him, and if all this stuff about Rumunya is a pretext for doing what they always wanted to do, why does Pizarro hang around? And why are there so many accounts of him crying and being conflicted about it all? We have one account. He goes to see Atawelpa and he says, I've heard rumors that your men are going to come and rescue you and you're communicating with them through your knotted strings.

And Atawelpa scoffed at him, Are you joking? What chance would my men have against men as brave as you? Stop knocking me like this. And clearly, some of the Spaniards do believe him. So one of the younger men, a guy called Pedro Catanio, remembers that Atahuelpa called Pizarro's bluff. If any warriors did come from Quito, they would be coming on my orders. Find out whether it's true. If it is true, then go ahead. You can execute me. The Spanish sources say that Pizarro found this very stressful. He couldn't decide what to do. He ordered Atahuelpa to be chained by the neck at this point to stop him escaping.

Is there not a legal What I mentioned to this? Because we've talked throughout how legalistic the Spaniards are.

Yes.

His entire governorship depends on royal approval. Yes. And killing an Emperor who you've promised life to, I mean, it's not a good look, it from the perspective of the Spanish court.

Yeah.

I mean, it may not just be humanitarian instincts. It may be a genuine anxiety that he's torn between legalistic imperatives and his sense of what would be practically the best thing to do, which would be to kill him.

That's absolutely right. I think, as we will see, he knows perfectly well that Charles IV will go ballistic if he finds out that Pizarro has murdered a monarch. I mean, even in this Aztec story, Cortés had to make up a load of nonsense about Montezuma rebelling, having agreed in order to justify murdering Montezuma. I think this is exactly what Pizarro is facing right now. Mid July, 1533, he caused a big meeting to decide Attawalpa's fate, and all the big guns are there. We're told that Pizarro and the men who had been there from the very beginning want to keep Attawelpa alive. They say it's honorable to keep him alive. They gave him their word because of the ransom. The ransom has been paid. We should keep outside of the bargain. They say he's a really useful hostage. Why would you give up a hostage like this? They point out not a single Spaniard has been attacked or injured since they took him prisoner. Clearly, this is working, so let's keep him. And some of actually clearly are fond of him. We know from the Chronicles and whatnot that there were people who spent their evenings talking to him through the interpreters and actually said, he's not such a bad guy.

I don't think we should kill him. But the people who've come with Alvarado take a very different view. They've got no investment in him. They say, He'll be a focus for resistance. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is that his people will turn on us. And crucially, we want to go to Cusco to get our share of the gold. Can we please stop hanging around? Can we get rid? The Spaniards can't agree. Pizarro sends out a scouting party under Hernando de Soto to see if this Northern army really is coming. And while de Soto is away, the tension counts. It's cut to the chase. There's an evening when they're playing cards and a Spaniard comes in and says, There's more rumors. There's people saying there are Inca troops approaching the town. And Almagro and Pizarro have a huge row. And then a couple of evenings later, there is another such incidents. Local people say they've seen the villages outside, fleeing before an Inca army. The Inca army will be in Cacemarca in two days. The moment has come. Now, this army does not exist. There is no attack on Cacemarca. But as John Heming says in his book, the key to the story is the hysteria and the paranoia that has now seized the Spaniards.

They're in the middle of nowhere. They're thousands of miles from home. They're surrounded by 12 million people. They're absolutely terrified now this gold is going to be taken from them and they're going to be attacked. They've never fought an Inca army, actually. They've attacked effectively unarmed Incas in the square, but that's not the same as a pitched battle where the Incas are attacking them.

I mean, I'd be paranoid in their shoes.

Of course you would. Of course you would. So they have another meeting. Al Magro and Cacot demand another meeting. This time, it's clear that Pizarro is outnumbered and the Royal officials crucially back Al Magro up and say, Yeah, that's 'Atta 'al 'al ' must die. And so Pizarro agrees. I don't doubt the sources that Pizarro is very reluctant because they're unanimous on this point. And he says, Fine, quote, 'Atta 'al 'al ' must die since he had broken the peace and plotted treason in bringing men to kill the Christians. Now, the Spanish sources disagree on one thing, and actually, historians themselves now disagree. Was there a trial or wasn't there? Because some said there was, some said there wasn't. I think it's because the conquistadors are so legalistic, they're always so anxious about being drawn into American-style lawsuits, that they have some rudimentary court martial, because we do have accounts of it.

I mean, some kind. So basically a kangoo court.

Kangour court. Pizarra and Al Magro are the judges, and there's a prosecutor who's basically barking out questions at Attawelpa. Did you kill Huascar? Did you force your subjects to sacrifice women and children to your gods? Were your wars just? Have you been giving orders for the to be killed. Some of the Spanish sources say the questions were ridiculous and the interpreters were deliberately mangling the questions and Atehualpa's answers to portray him in the worst possible light. Atahuelpa, for all that we've said, he's a very hard man. He's also a very emotional man. He breaks down in tears and he says, I can give you twice as much gold and silver as I've already given you if you'll spare me. We're told that Pizarro was crying as well. But Pizarro at the end says, You have been found guilty of idolatry, heresy, regicide, fratricide, treason, polygamy, and incest. I mean, they really are throwing the book at him. The sentence for all this is death. Because he had committed treason, he should die by burning unless he converted to Christianity. Now, this is very worrying for Attawalpa because die by burning is unthinkable for an Inca.

If he's going to live on in paradise, in hana pancha, as the Incas call it, then his body cannot be burned because you can't get into paradise if you've been burned.

And they mummify the bodies, don't they?

Yes, you must be imbalmed. If you're the Emperor, and we will talk about this in the next episode, they will mummify you, and then they'll give you your own palace in Cusco, and they'll bring you out at festivals.

For royal weddings and things.

And parades and processions and things. You'll have your own servants and stuff when you're a mummy. This is terrible if Fattah Alpa can't enjoy this future joy. Now, he doesn't have much time to think about it. The trial ends, so-called trial, if there is a trial, ends in the early hours of Saturday, the 26th of July. The Spaniards say, We want to get this done by tonight. Basically, A, in case Atoalpa is rescued, or B, in case Pizarro changes his mind. That evening, night's falling, Atahuelpa is led out into the square in Cajamarca, the place where he had been captured before this big crowd, and he's tied to a stake. It's an absolutely heartrending scene, even though he is a bad man in some ways. He's sobbing like a baby. He says, I want to entrust my children to Pizarro's protection. And Valverde, the Dominican friar, says to him, Forget about your children. Accept baptism and die like a Christian. We're told Atahuelpa continued to persist in commending his sons with great weeping, indicating their size with his hand, showing by the signs he made and by his words that they were small and that he was leaving them in keto.

And eventually, Valverde says, well, Pizarro will look after them as though they're his own children. And Atahalpa says, fine, in that case, I'll accept baptism and I'll become a Christian.

And the irony there is that he's doing that to preserve his supernatural potency in the Kingdom of the gods.

Yes, exactly. Valverde then baptizes him, and he gives him the name Francisco, of all names. And then he's not going to be burned. The guards tie a cord around Atahuelpa's neck. As Valverde leads the Spaniards in reciting the creed, Atahuelpa is garroted. So that is the end of him. But a couple more details. First of all, the Spanish, of course, had promised him he would not be burned. Now, they don't burn him to ashes.

They grill him.

They give him a grilling. Then they leave his grilled body in the square overnight, for everyone to learn of his death. Is that basically a message? That Grilling, I think, is a gesture. You and I talked about this before we start the recording. I think this is a gesture of contempt for him, probably by the Al Magrishters.

He's buried, isn't he, in the local church? Yes. But there are stories that People rescue the body, take it to Ecuador, up to Quito, and mummify it. There are archeologists who go on a- Indiana Jones type, yes, exactly. Maybe out there, Atahuelpa's mummified body. Maybe. Lightly grilled is still there. Who knows?

Yeah, it's perfectly possible. There is not, I think, straight away, but I think in subsequent decades, there starts to be this cult of Atahuelpa and a belief that maybe he might come back from the dead. Pedro Pizarro records a very weird scene. Basically, two of Atahuelpa's sisters got into Pizarro's apartment and began to call for Atahuelpa, searching very softly for him in all the corners. But seeing that he did not answer, they went out making a great lamentation. I disabused them and told them that dead men do not return. The really interesting thing, though, is the reaction of the Spanish themselves. Remember I said that they'd sent off Enando to Soto to look for this Northern army? Soto gets back and he says, There's no Northern army. I mean, it's been made up. There's no Inca troops advancing on the town. And then he discovers they've killed Atahuelpa, and he goes absolutely ballistic. And he says, How could you do this behind my back when I was gone? I'm meant to be the number two man in this expedition. You've killed this guy who was our chief hostage and one of our biggest assets. Now, meanwhile, Pizarro, one of his secretaries, writes a report for him to Charles IV, saying, I have executed a monarch, but I'm just going to explain exactly why I've done it.

And the reaction in Spain was that Pizarro had behaved badly. Not that Pizarro had done the right thing, but that Pizarro had let Spain down. So there's a judge in Panama called Gaspard Espinosa, who's writing all the time to Charles V, basically sending him reports of what these guys are getting to in Peru. He writes to Charles IV, and he says, The Spanish and Cacamaca are totally out of control. Their greed is so great as to be insatiable. The more the native chiefs give, the more the Spaniards kill or torture them to give even more. He says, They should never have killed that, Awellpa, a man who'd fallen into their hands and who'd done no harm to any Spaniard. They could have sent him here to Panama with his wives and servants as his rank deserved. We would all have honored him and treated him like a great noble of Castile. Actually, this becomes comes established. This will surprise some listeners who just think of this, who have subscribed to the black legend of Spain, of 16th century Spain, as uniquely cruel and greedy and whatnot. Most Spanish chroniclers agreed that Pizarro had done the wrong thing.

So this is Gonzalo Fernández de Oviedo in the 1530s. The killing of so great a prince was an infamous disservice to God and the Emperor, an act of great ingratitude and outstanding evil. And this is probably most influential of all the Spanish writers about Peru, Pedro Thiefe de León in the 1550s. The most evil deed the Spaniards have done in all the empire of the Indies. It is widely vétuparated and it's considered a grave sin. And this is definitely what the King himself thought Charles IV, because when he wrote back to Pizarro, he said, We have been displeased by the death of Atahuelpa since he was a monarch, and particularly as it was done in the name of justice. We will seek more information about this matter and then order what is necessary. If you're Pizarro reading this, you surely think, Oh, no.

That's probably what Pizarro is worrying about. Exactly that reaction.

Atahuelpa is dead, and Pizarro's position is looking a little bit rickety. So his brother, Hernando, on whom he relied, has gone back to Spain with some of the gold. His chief lieutenant, Hernando de Soto, is furious with him about the death of Atahuelpa, and his partner, Diego de Amagro, is absolutely furious Yeah, he's livid. Yeah, livid. He is livid about the unequal division of the treasure. Now, Pizarro and his men are facing their biggest challenge yet. Ateuelpa is dead and the Inca Empire is leaderless, so they need to find a new puppet on whom they can rely. Tom, their road now lies south, up into the Andes, across the Inca Heartland to the city of Gold, Cusco. But what awaits them there is darker and bloodier and more dramatic than even they could possibly have imagined.

Well, dear listeners, if you like darkness and blood-stained drama, then, wow, who have got to treat you in the next episode. Members of the Restless History Club, of course, can hear it right away, together with the final two episodes in this series. If you're not a member of the Restless History Club, then you can join them by going to the Restless history. Com to sign up. But for now, hasta luego.

Bye-bye. Troy, the Odyssey, the Iliad, all of these great ancient epics depict a monumental collapse that destroyed the interconnected empires of 3,000 years ago. To understand the Bronze Age Apocalypse that Homer wrote about 400 years after it happened, subscribe to Empire World History, a fellow goalhanger podcast where we are deep diving into the biggest imperial collapse in ancient history. To get a flavor of the series, here is a clip from our episode with none other than Stephen Fry.

It is one of my favorite subjects, the story of the Greeks and the Siege of Troy and Odecius's Return Home, of course. I say Greeks, Homo called them the Acheans, the Deneans, the Argives. The word Greeks is a much later one. But it refers really to the Mycenaians, warrior aristocracy, essentially, obsessed with honor and reputation that would give them an eternal glory, a kleos, as they call it. It's the kleos. It's in the name of so many Greeks, Cleopatra and all the-I haven't worked that out. That's the same word. Heracles, who's Hercules, hero's glory. He was actually named Heracles because she hated him, because he was a love child of Zeus, and she never liked Zus's love child, her husband, her errant husband. As an attempt to placate her, Thérèse, because he was born in Thebes, suggested that he changed his name, as a baby this was, to Heracles, the glory of Herecles, the glory of Herecles. It didn't help much. It It didn't help at all. Then Athena even put her on Herea's breast when Hiera was asleep because it would bond them if he suckled her milk. But she woke and saw it and tossed him away, and her breast milk spread across the sky to form the milky way.

I didn't know that story.

Because Galaxy, of course, is from the Greek for milk, Galactic, as in lactic. So the chocolate makers are right. Anyway, this is completely separate. Keep going.

Don't stop. Well, we really hope you enjoyed that clip. To hear more on the Bronze Age Apocalypse and how it shaped the ancient Greek epics. Just subscribe to Empire wherever you get your podcasts.