Transcript of Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. And I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Campbell. We're here to take your calls. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. Up first, we have Sean in Springfield, Illinois. Hey, Sean. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a huge fan.

Oh, well, thanks for calling in. How can we help?

So basically, my question is, should I take a loan to pay off a debt? That way I have a little bit of breathing room so I can start Baby Step one.

Should you take out- Explain the math on that one. You're going to take out a loan to pay off another loan, and that somehow gives you breathing room? Aren't you just swapping one payment for another?

Yes, But if I took out the loan, I'd have a smaller payment because right now, the loan is $500 a month, and that plus rent plus my car payment and all my other insurance and groceries and all that puts me just barely making it by every month.

What would the payment be?

It'd probably be closer to $100 a month instead of $500.

By dragging it out?

Yeah.

Okay.

So it's a $400 swing. How much are you making here?

Without overtime, about $40,000.

Okay. Are you doing overtime now?

I'm getting as much overtime as I can, and it's our slow season right now. So whenever I'm not at work, I'm door-dashing to make some extra money.

What do you do?

I work in agriculture, so I drive I move fertilizer to the fields and apply it.

Okay. Yeah, so getting into winter months, you guys aren't.

What's your total debt?

My total debt is $20,000.

And what is that? Break that down for 17 of it is for my car, and the other 3,000 is for this debt that's currently that I'm talking about.

Okay. For your car, have you Kelly Blue booked it to see what you could sell it for?

Yeah. It, on a private party, is worth about 11.

Okay.

So you're six grand underwater there. And you're saying the 3K debt has a $500 a month payment?

Yeah. It's currently, I believe it's considered in collections. It's $250 every paycheck for 11 more weeks.

And then you're done?

Well, 11 more payments when I'm done, yes.

I mean, Sean, I'll be honest, no. I probably wouldn't switch it because I feel like when you're getting out of debt, or you're starting baby step one even, it's this gazelle intensity where you are working every minute of every waking day. If possible, you're door-dashing on the week. I mean, you're figuring out a way to get out of debt faster. And a part of me wants you just to figure out how to do it because this is going to help you get out of debt faster. $500 a month is a minimum payment. Versus spreading it out. I understand you're trying to get that margin, but I would pick up that $400 somewhere else from an income perspective, honestly. Because, yeah, I feel like this is the reason why you would be Gazelle Intense. This will fuel you and instead of slow you down, because there's almost a level of... I understand what you're saying, that $400 a month, but I want you to get $1,000 in the next 30 days. So I don't know how you're going to do it, but that's the baby step one intensity. It's not slowing down the payments so that I can have more margin to do baby step one.

It is we're going above and beyond our normal to be able to find extra money.

Because that 3,000 debt is your smallest. So that's the next one to attack. So I'd rather you're putting more toward the principal, which is the 500, than putting 100 toward it just so you can get your baby step one. The key here is finding the secret sauce in your income to be able to do the baby steps, not to move the debt around and add more debt in order to try to make it work, because that's not changing any behavior that got us here. And also that car is half your income. So that's another glaring issue here, and you're way over water on. Did you roll over negative equity? Why is it worth so little?

So I got the car the beginning of September, and I needed a reliable vehicle. Like two months ago? Yeah.

And it already dropped 6,000? It dropped 6,000 in like 60 days?

I am like 90 % positive I overpaid for it.

So you got hosed at a dealership? Do what? I'm sorry. Did you get hosed at a dealership? Like, who sold you this car? Like, who hates you that much?

Yeah, it was car-wise. So, the whole one dime down, take a car home today,.

And you probably got a crazy high. What's the interest rate on this?

23 %.

There we go. Oh, my gosh. We have a winner. Okay. That sales guy must have just been on his smoke break. You would not believe this. 23 % on this last- Come on, Sean, he already made the mistake. I know. I'm just like, you went in there for a vehicle, right? Just something reliable?

Yeah, because my truck had just broken down.

I'm trying to make this help me and everyone understand what happens in these scenarios. So you go in and you say, Here's the payment I can afford, and they go, We can make that work?

Yeah, pretty much.

Which that's normal, Sean. I don't know why George is being so feisty towards you. I'm not.

I'm trying to show people the tricks of the dealership.

Yes, that's right. That is.

Because someone else is about to fall for that, who's desperate for a reliable vehicle.

And it's the urgency that they pick up on. My truck is dead, and people are like, Perfect. I got a guy who needs something. What payment are you looking for? The desperation is here. We can do it. So don't fall for it, people. Everyone listening. So, Sean, I almost would be curious if you went down to your credit union and got a $10,000 loan, paid off the difference of the truck, got a $4,000 crappy car off some highway in Illinois, and called it a day. And I'd rather have $10,000 and a less payment and not paying 23 % interest.

Yeah, what's your payment? What does that free up to attack that $3,000?

If you didn't have the car payment, what's the car payment?

My car payment currently, for the car I have right now, my car payment is 461 a month.

Okay.

That gets you your baby step one in two months, just if you free up that car payment without doing any other changes to your life. And I would be working as much over time as you can, as much door-dash and side hustles as you can, and see, is there room to grow in this agriculture field? Because it worries me that if this is the top, we got to find something else.

Yeah, average household is around 67,000, just to give you a ballpark. So 40,000, you're under that. So I just wonder what else is out there for you from a primary income perspective, how to get that up?

There is room to grow, and I do get a 3% raise every year.

That's going to take a while to get to 50, 60, because what we're looking at is the next five years, not just to get out of this debt. And so I'm looking for your future, Sean, to go, How can Sean build some wealth? How can Sean become a homeowner one day and have money to invest on top of just surviving and covering the bills? Right now, you're in that paycheck to paycheck survival cycle.

Yeah. Sean, I think if we woke up in your shoes, we would probably go get a $10,000 loan from the credit union, sell the car, pay off the difference, take some of that money and go and buy a crappy car, keep your $500 payments, and find the margin through the income perspective to get that $1,000. I'd make it a goal, do it in the next four weeks, find $1,000 in four weeks, selling stuff, whatever you got to do, and then start taking that $3,000 debt because you'll get that paid off. I think you're going to start feeling some momentum, but there's got to be a real big sense of urgency on your end.

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Next we have, is it Corinne? Corinne. Corinne from Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi. Welcome to the show. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

So I wrote this out. So here we go. It's not long, but I just didn't want to I did it wrong. So I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm a stay-at-home mom with two kiddos. I just started homeschooling this year, and my husband works as a pastor at a church, and he currently does not make enough money for a family to live off of. And so how do I navigate a conversation about looking for a new job all while trying to make sure that we are following God's plan for my husband's call and ministry?

Interesting. What's he making?

58,000 a year.

Okay. So we're not like, poverty level here. I thought he was like a youth pastor making, $30,000, and it was a struggle. But 58,000, do you guys have debt?

We have only about like, 4,000, 5,000 in debt, $2,000 on our car, and then we had to borrow money from my father-in-law, $2,500. I actually picked up a contract job to help pay off that debt, but it's causing a lot of stress with just balancing homemaking, homeschooling, all the different levels of being a mom. Sure. So anyway, I don't want to do that long term. It's definitely helpful in the meantime, but it's not the vision that we had for our family.

How much would you say in your monthly budget, if you had X amount more per month would make you feel like have some breathing room and a little bit more comfortable?

I mean, even like 1,000 to 2,000 extra. Because when I was before doing this contract work, but I've only done it for three months, we were doing food banks and stuff. So We're at that level. And that sounds crazy because you're like, you're not $30,000. It is almost twice as much as that. But it's just- Yeah.

Do you guys have a pretty detailed budget, would you say, on what you spend on groceries and gas? And is it pretty laid out that you guys have boundaries around categories and what you're spending? Yes, definitely. And what's your mortgage?

Our mortgage is $2,000. So So it's about half of our income.

Okay.

That explains a lot of it.

That's probably a lot of it, honestly. That's for that extra thousand dollars that you're looking for, that you need breathing room is tied up in the mortgage payment. Yeah, how much do you guys have left on the house?

Oh, we just moved here to the area last year. Okay. So we're house broke, like scramble to move here for this job because we felt like that's what God was calling us to do. Bought the house out of budget. And so that's... Now we're like, Yeah, now what? You know, the situation.

For sure. Yeah. I mean, if you talk to him Is he... I mean, I hate to just say, Go get a raise from your church.

Yeah, but has he talked to his leadership about how tight it is?

Yeah, is there an elder board? Is there anyone that he's going to that knows, or does he even know that you feel this way?

Yeah, no, definitely he knows. The church is not as healthy as it should be, and so the conversation he has had has been like, check back in in six months, let's check back in the new fiscal year to see how we can do anything.

What would he be doing if he wasn't a pastor? If he went and got a different job?

I don't know. He's been a pastor his entire... And it's a worship pastor, so it's not like a lead pastor, but he's been one his entire adult life. I met him as a pastor and had kids all while doing this stuff.

How old are you guys?

34. Okay.

Here's my take. It might be a fallacy that he's going to go out and get a job paying more than 60 doing something else tomorrow. That might be a pipe dream right now. What I've seen, and this is pastors in my life, I was a part of a church plant and the pastor was bi-vocational. He did handyman work and woodworking and start at an Etsy store on top of his pastoral duties. So I think he needs to start doing that on the side, and maybe that thing turns full-time and maybe God blesses him at the church and things get healthier and he gets a raise there. But at least then we have a better clue as to what the next step is?

Mm-hmm.

Is he open to doing side work?

I don't know. We've never talked about it before.

Does he go in 40 hours a week? To the church?

Oh, yeah, or more. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And I wonder his responsibility's there. I mean, they're paying him, I guess, a full salary, so I'm assuming that, yeah, there's stuff to be done, and he has responsibilities there. I mean, I mean, the biggest glaring thing to me, I hate to say current, is the house. I just think you guys bought too much of a house. If you stayed within that 25 % range of your income, which is what we teach, that would be, you know.

Which means you would be rent it right now.

$800, probably Yeah, $800 back into the paycheck of what you're looking at. So either he makes a career shift. If he doesn't see an income going up soon, in the church, again, I'm not making them the bad guy by any means, but it is what they have, and that's what they have. That's the salary that you guys took to come here. But if you can't make that work as a family, then I think you guys do need to have a bigger conversation as a family. I know you know this, but just encourage you, service and doing work as a believer unto the Lord can look a thousand different ways. And I know in ministry, specifically, people can get very comfortable in that world. It's the only world they've known. So even to step out into something that's totally different feels scary and all of that. But again, that's your personal conviction of what you guys feel led to and called to. But I don't know. It's hard for me to navigate it because I don't know you guys personally. You know what I'm saying? I don't know.

We can't be like, Well, how do you know that's God's calling? If you say it, we believe it. You know what I mean? There's a piece of this where we go, Well, someone's got to sacrifice. Either you need to give up the dream of being a stay at home mom. He needs to give up the dream of being a pastor because right now, being stressed and broke, that's not of the Lord. I think we can all at least agree on that. That's not a good future where we're going to thrive. It's going to need to be some give and take here, and it might be some of it temporary, the side jobs to just clean up the debt, get a good emergency fund, then reassess where we're at, and can we still accommodate accomplish all of our goals, cover the bills, invest for the future? If we can, then great. I have a feeling, though, we're going to need to see some income shift if we're going to keep up our current lifestyle and keep the house.

How old are the kids?

Four and six.

Four and six. Okay. So they would be starting kindergarten next year in second grade, I guess?

Yeah.

And that's the hard thing in today's world, and a lot of people that call in are in a very similar boat, Corinne, where You have your wishlist of what you want life to look like. You want to be a stay-at-home mom. You want to homeschool. Your husband wants to do ministry. You want to live in this house. This is the wishlist of life that you start to live out, and then you realize, oh, gosh, but there is a reality, and this is not negative of what God's will is. There's a reality of living in 2025 that the numbers have to work. It is what it is. So something on that list, the prioritization of what you guys value, is going to have shift. I don't know if that's sending kids to school and you get a part-time job and you make 20 grand a year and it softens everything and you guys get to do that. I don't know if that is him shifting. I don't know what that looks like, but that's a value system that you guys have to paint for your family and where you guys feel comfortable to figure out how to make this math work.

The house is hard for me.

It's just an immovable object unless we sell it and downsize. I don't know if you can rent in Little Rock with a family of four for way less. That's the other part of this. It's just hard. I mean, the housing market's tough. Here's what I will do. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I think it will unlock some things for your husband, maybe even for you, to figure out what are the things in the short term or long term we can be doing to create a more sustainable future for ourselves. So hang on the line. We'll gift you that. I hope he realizes that there might be more than this church job, and maybe he can do ministry outside of in the public or private sector.

Yeah. Or on the side, like what you were saying. You know what I mean? How do we make the numbers work for our family? What does that look like? And I think saying the God's will, his calling, that's a very, I don't know. That's a very subjective card to play, and that's different for everyone. But I do think you can do incredible work for the kingdom, and it doesn't have to be in the walls of a church.

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The all-new Every Dollar is here. And if you've had the app, now it is more than just a budgeting tool. It was like the best budget that you... If you need a budget, download Every Dollar. But now we're so excited that it's not just a budgeting app. It's looking at your entire financial overview. Everything walking you through the Ramsey plan. It has so many advanced features to really help you make progress faster. It makes things convenient and easy to see, and it's incredible. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So there's this big questionnaire you go through, and there's recommendations on what to do with your current situation, and it is incredible. So start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or on Google Play. All right, up next, we have Gabe in Kansas City. Hi, Gabe. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help?

Yeah. So how do I stop spending Everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself.

Oh, interesting. What are you spending money on?

Well, honestly, mostly DoorDash, but then it's random stuff. I always find a way, no matter how much money comes It's in the paycheck, to spend it all.

It's fair. Love will find a way. Have you thought about deleting the DoorDash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

Yeah. Well, I actually did. I did that two I bought this three days ago. And like you said, Love will find a way. It's just a creeping addiction.

So you see the Zucini you bought three days ago, and you're like, DoorDash sounds better. I'm redownloading it. Yeah. Like going back to an abusive ex.

To a zucchini? Why don't you at least say- Well, we all aspirational grocery shop.

You know what I mean? We're like, You know what? I'm going to eat a zucchini.

I'm going to eat a whole bag of spinach.

I saw a good Instagram air fryer zucchini recipe. I'm going to- A whole thing of spinach. Okay, but here's the thing. What are your financial goals? Because I think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to fuel your love of DoorDash to stop that.

Yeah. Well, first is get a car, then after that, a house, and then after that, crack a million marks in network.

Love it. Those are great goals. That's the American dream summed up.

What are you doing for a living right now?

Right now, it's not good. I'm actually working for the master I feed. I DoorDash a lot from my- Oh, gosh.

Wait, what?

Well, no wonder it's easy because you're around it all the time. Like, this taco bell sounds good.

Wait, do you drive for DoorDash? I'll pay myself to do it again. Okay, you're not working for DoorDash corporate.

You're like a- No, he's a DoorDasher. He's running around food for people.

Okay, how old are you?

Running around food for people. Yeah. How old are you?

I'm 20.

Okay.

Are you in school? Did you not go to college? What happened?

Yeah, I'm in school for business management right now.

Okay. What do you want to do with that?

Well, ideally, you get a short term management job to build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and try my hand at the entrepreneur. I I can't talk. Yeah, you're good.

So you want to work in management of something? Like, is it retail? Is it corporate? Have you drilled down into that, to what you'd be most into?

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously, if someone offers me a job paying more than DoorDash, I'll take it at this point.

Okay. How much longer in school? Yeah.

When you graduate.

I'm expecting next summer.

Okay.

Cash flowing it, or are you going to debt?

I'm cash flowing it.

Great. Do you have any debt?

I have $200 in credit cards.

Okay, we got that. It's good. Okay, Gabe, you know what? I'm going to say, I'd say you're a typical 20-year-old guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think you need a little bit of motivation. And I think when you're in school, you have a part-time job, you got to just float your expenses. I mean, are you living at home? What are you doing for rent and all of that?

Yeah, right now, I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help spending.

Yeah, well, it's fine. I mean, you're in college, so I think that's totally appropriate. So what do you have to pay for? What are the things that you're responsible for?

Right now, it's just my phone and gas.

Phone and gas. Okay.

And what are you making every month?

Naturally, it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month.

Okay. Because if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas.

And because you're a full-time college student, so you're in college, which I don't think it's bad.

Yeah, that's great. You're in college, you're doing well in your classes, you're going to graduate on time.

So I think the best thing for you, Gabe, honestly, right now is to work on your habits. And you need to start creating some new financial routines. And so you can do this. You can even automate some of this. I don't always recommend that for people because I like people's behavior to change because they're actually the ones doing it. But for you, I would almost say, yeah, make it a goal where you save half of that. What if you save the $1,000 a month? Because how much does your phone and gas cost?

Not much. It usually shakes out to around 300, $400.

Okay. So, yeah, what if you gave yourself 600 bucks to spend on how you want and then save half of your income. And you do that for the next, golly, six months? You'd have $6,000 when you graduate. That'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving. But You can even go in and automate some of this. You can set up some systems in place with online banking and that thing. And when your paycheck hits- It's like pay yourself first. Yeah, absolutely. I'd be giving some, too. I think there's a practice of generosity in there. Give It's ever how much you want, but even 200 bucks a month. Practice that part, practice the saving part, and then you can still enjoy some of it. So I think you're in a good spot. I think it's just the habits and the routines month to month that you need to change. And when you get those in place, you start to be disciplined, you start to know what you're doing, you're telling your money what to do. And then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a $2,000 a month to maybe a $5,000, $6,000 a month salary.

And you've changed the way that you handle your money. Literally, your behavior changes.

Okay.

I was exactly like you, Gabe. I'm looking back at when I was- You were not that much of a spender.

I promise.

No, but when I was living at home, I was working in the Apple Store, and every paycheck just go to gear and just spend. I wasn't saving any of it.

Well, because there's no urgency. Exactly.

So it makes sense. So I was living at home. So it makes sense. I remember feeling that way, Gabe, and what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house. I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school, and that put a new pep in my step to go, Listen, mom's not going to save you with her home-cooked meals.

I don't think he should move out, though. Do you? No.

I'm saying once he graduates, though, he just go ahead and find an actual job. There's a natural- Don't stick around home saying, Well, I could save up for a house faster. And all of a sudden, you spent 500 bucks on DoorDash every month.

Yes, that's right. So when you graduate, you need to move out. That needs to be a big goal.

Create some problems for yourself because we are wired to solve problems. Right now, you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing. But if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you need to have some mojo. Right now, it's hard to have that when mom is folding the laundry.

Gabe, what car do you have right now?

Well, right now, I don't have anything. I'm driving my dad's DoorDash.

Oh.

Whoa. How does he feel about that?

He feels fine about it because he does it part-time, too. So he doesn't really mind.

Okay. Well, I would make that a goal then. I think that's great. You said that, but I would reiterate. And if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, you would have a $6,000 car in six months. You know what I mean?

Do you have a high-yield savings account, Gabe?

Yeah, I do. I'm shopping around for another one because I'm not a fan of the one I have.

Perfect. We got just the one for you. Go to fairwins. Org/ramsey. They just created a new bundle for our fans. It's got a great high yield savings account, and so you can actually attach your checking and savings and then start to automate that thousand bucks a month. Just go straight from checking into that high yield savings. And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed. So pretend you make a thousand bucks a month, and now we have to live off of that. That helped retrain my brain as well.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah, make sure to check that out. And you'll get the Ramsey debit card with that bundle. Oh, yeah. And it says, Debt as normal, be weird. You're not deeply in debt, Gabe, but at least you get that reminder. It's a good reminder.

Yeah, every time you see it. Especially as you enter adulthood, it's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, take out the personal loan, whatever it is. And so this will help you avoid that temptation. Yeah, for sure. This is very natural. You're 20. You're not weird. You're just 20. Yeah.

Just put some disciplines and new habits in place. I think you're going to be fine. But George Campbell is spender.

What can I say? Man. Left to my own devices. Working for Apple. With Mama Campbell cooking at home.

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Are you on track with the Baby Steps? The Baby Steps are seven steps for you to get control of your money, become debt-free, start building wealth, and changing your family tree. Well, if you're curious where you are in that process, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? And complete the quiz. Up next, we have Jennifer in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Jennifer. Hi. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

Well, here's my situation. I am 54, and my husband is 72, and we've been married 23 years. We've had a pretty successful law firm for about the last 25 years together, but it's winding down now, and it's to the point where neither of us are taking a salary anymore. And anything that we generate is pretty much going back into the business to keep it afloat and make monthly payroll, which is about $20,000 a month, generally. And we have no debt, which is great, and we We haven't for a long time. We own our home in our law firm, free and clear. But I find myself in a weird situation being worried about the future for a couple of reasons. I will say my husband is not, and I think it's probably because he's 20 years my senior, and I feel like I'm in a different boat than him, even though we're in the same marriage. I've never not had a paycheck or a salary in my entire career as a lawyer or even before, and it makes me uncomfortable at this age in my life. Number two is the way our estate is set up is he was married before me, and he's got two adult children.

And as it currently stands, 50 % of my wealth goes away to his adult children who are married to pretty wealthy guys. So I find myself at 54 with a law firm that's winding down and not really making any money anymore and not not really knowing what the future looks like. And he's pretty unbothered.

And I'm not. Because he's like, I'm probably going to go first. So- Right.

He's like, You have to deal with the fallout, not me.

It'll all work out. Oh, no. Okay. I know.

I keep trying to gently remind him of that. And we've got assets of about three million investments in cash. Our home is worth about 600,000. Like I said, there's no mortgage. We own our law firm. It's probably worth about 750,000 to a million dollars. So from the outside looking in, people think we're in great shape. But there's just such a age disparity. Sure. I just don't know what to do. It stresses me out, and he did come crazy.

What do you want to do? If you snapped your fingers today, what happens?

I don't Really, I don't know. That's a problem for me because this is my whole identity. This is all I've ever known. I've been a lawyer for 25 years. Play it out.

You could still be a lawyer and sell the law firm, couldn't you? You sell it for a million bucks.

You split it. I don't know that I want to continue practicing law. It would be nice not to have to work anymore, but I don't want to- You said 3 million is your total nest egg, including the house.

Is that right?

No, the house and the law firm are separate.

Okay, so what's the 3 million in?

Stocks, let's see, 401(k), they were all that. But he's controlled all that. I got married to him and let him just take over. So, yeah, another thing I probably wish I would have done differently. Yeah.

So you guys need to be aligned, otherwise you can't really make any moves, it sounds like.

He just thinks there's nothing to worry about.

And I'm like, well- Yeah, because I guess the question is, let's just pretend you sell the law firm. Say he passes away tomorrow. Okay, we'll just like, sorry, not to be horrible. No, I get it. You sell the law firm for a million. You got three million. That's four million divided in half. Two millions going to the kids, two millions going to you. So the question is, Jennifer, to you, if it was invested and you were able to get to that two million, you were able to live off of that and what it would bring per year. Could you do that? I mean, that'd be what? 10 %?

If you pulled 100 grand out a year, could you live off of that?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, we've always lived within our means, and I think that's why we've been able to stay out of debt unlike most of our friends. So I feel good about it. I mean, we've done everything right. I mean, the world looks scary to me now in a way that it been on before.

Sure. Okay. Yeah. Well, so I think from a very basic numbers perspective, we know you're going to be okay if something happened tomorrow. Now the question is, nothing is going to happen probably tomorrow, knock on wood, but there's no diagnosis There's nothing in the urgent near future. So the next question is, what is the next... It's a George's question when he said earlier, the next 5-10 years, what's ideal for you from a money perspective? I think you would say, run some numbers and just be like, Okay, I think I'd feel more comfortable if there was three million, if we could build it up to whatever. Maybe a numbers perspective, that would make you feel even more peace from a career standpoint. You're 54, is what you said. I don't know if you want to work for four more years and you take a salary still. Be like, Yeah, it'd be great to be working for four more years. I want to get paid for my work.

I'd love to.

And then we sell it in five years. I don't know. Just mapping out him dreaming. And it would be great if he would be involved in that, too. You can do it yourself, but it also would be fun to go to a nice dinner and get a bottle of wine and be like, Hey, let's just dream for the next 5 to 10 years. What do we want life to look like? Because he's going to be 82 in 10 years. And so between now and then- He'll be old enough to run for President.

That'll be really fun.

Oh, God. I would kill him first.

I kid.

He's pretty unbothered by all of this. He's just like, I think you worry too much. You'll be fine. Okay.

So that, to me, is a breakdown in communication from him because he doesn't have to understand your fear, but he at least needs to empathize and hear it out and actually meet you in that, right? And that's more of a relational marriage moment. You're right. Not just a final- You're right.

There's two pieces to this, him respecting your feelings, and then the other side is just the math of it all and what can we do. For that part, have you guys worked with a financial advisor you trust to actually have a third party unbiased just look at all this?

He has had a bad I've experienced with that in the past and has just taken over doing it himself, and he's been really good, and we haven't had to pay anybody else. But I've left it all to him, so I feel a little bit in the dark, number one. Number two, I just have an issue with half of our money going away to adult kids. And I know that's between him and me. You know what I mean? I was just like, They don't have anything to worry about. They're in their 30s and early 40s. I'm not. And I helped build this practice to where it is now.

They didn't. Do you guys Do you have a will and trust that lays us all out? Maybe you can make some adjustments with an estate attorney?

Yes, we do. We have made some adjustments to it. Before, it was like 30%. It was like a third, a third, a third, me and them, both girls.

Why not you get half the law firm and the kids get half of whatever else?

The law firm thing is weird. If you're the one that built it, helped him build it.

I get the law firm and the house, but it's the cash and everything else. Cash is important to me. If something happened to him tomorrow, I mean, a law firm is only as good as Someone's going to pay for it.

When you sell it, it's not like having cash. 100 %. Do you guys have kids together? No, we don't. Did you all have kids together? No, we don't.

No, I don't have kids. I'm a stepmom.

Okay. Yeah, and again, I know the blended family, people do it so many different ways.

It's more complicated, for sure.

It is. But the natural progression, because you don't have kids yourselves, is that it goes to you, and then when you pass, it goes to the girls, right?

That would be the natural- That's what I think it should be. Yeah.

And to your At some point, they're doing fine. If he passes at 82, they're going to be multi-multi-millionaires by then not even needing this money.

How's your relationship with the girls?

Great. It's wonderful. But this would be a problem. I mean, money, I've just seen it. It just tears people apart. No, I've never expressed that I feel any way about it. I've just told him this is really unnecessary when I'm in a different age bracket, and they both are married to very wealthy men. They don't need the money.

Does he get this... What you're saying to all of us with your amount of passion and absoluteness, do you give that to him? Does he see that side of you?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. She's like, Probably more than what I'm doing here.

Is he just hard-headed and stubborn and goes, No, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Everything's fine. One thousand %, yes. Okay. He probably uses that term at 72.

I mean, yeah. I hate to say, Jennifer, that to me, that's a breakdown in marriage communication because you have a husband that you are legitimately... You're a intelligent woman that's communicating very clearly, and you are getting completely pushed aside. Sidelined. No, what do they call it? Not ghosted. You're getting... What do they call it?

Is there a word for that?

Yeah, what do the kids say? Where they're like, I'm not... That didn't happen. What do they call that?

Wow. You're showing your age now.

Get ready. What are the kids saying? Next segment, I'm going to remember the word, but that's what's happening to Jennifer, and that's a marriage breakdown.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with George Campbell, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next, we have Emma in Minneapolis. Hi, Emma. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you so much.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

So I am a senior in high school. I'm freshly 18 years old, and I I got into my dream college, and I don't know how to tell my parents.

Wow. I thought there was going to be something bad that happened. But this is good. So give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

So my dream school for my whole life has been University of Southwestern Saint Paul.

Whole life? Since you were zero years old, you were like, This is on my dream Pinterest board.

Is that a private school?

Yes, it's private and Christian.

Yeah. How much is that tuition?

It's about 38,000 a year.

Okay. So what have you and your parents talked about when it comes to college?

So I've known for a very long time that my parents were not going to help me with college. I'm the oldest of six kids, and we live on just my dad's income.

Okay.

And so they don't want me to go there because they don't want me to go into student loan debt, which I understand.

Yeah. 100 %. But I haven't I think you have probably 99 % of people listening to this saying, Yep, we agree with your parents. We are. And so you've not told them because you're going to go, and you're going to go take on Essentially, over four years, $160,000?

What I haven't told them is that I got- $160,000.

Yeah.

What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

Oh, well, that's Great. Okay, so how much does that cover?

It covers about $44,000 over all four years.

Okay.

So you're down to, you'll owe 120 or something? What's the number?

It's $11,000 a year for all four years, so I'm down to $105,000. Okay.

And how much do you have saved?

I actually do not have a savings account. I have been helping my parents with the bills and stuff. I work for the family.

So they're struggling financially? Yes. Okay.

Oh, wow. And you're working part-time, and that money that you're working for is going to the household?

Yes. Was this something you're doing out of kindness, or was it like, Hey, if you're going to live under a roof, you got to help around because times are tough?

No, it's kindness.

Okay. And they're taking your money?

Yes and no. So I contribute. I help pay for groceries and stuff, and I am aware That some of the money that I'm paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me. I just don't know how much that is.

So we can get some clarity on that. We got to know if it's a thousand or ten thousand.

I think if my math is right, it should be around 8,000.

And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

I don't know. Yeah.

Well, I hate to say it. I know people are in different circumstances financially, but asking an 18-year-old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me. I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account. But I would ask them tonight because it is October, and if you're a senior in high school, you're starting to get early. I mean, it's what you're doing. You're getting college. You've sent out college applications, you're getting the letters in, you're figuring out your next steps, and you do that around this time. And so for you, Emma, to know going into the next nine months of what you have to work with and staying within that. So I want to be really kind because I really appreciate the dream school. I know that you've thought about it and all of it. But there is a sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want. And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talk to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that. And so I would implore you that your friends, Rachel and George, can tell you in the real world, when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma.

They really don't. Some care that you have a four-year degree. I mean, that's, I think, a great thing to have. So I think that's great. But people don't care, and the the name of the school and all of that, it is not usually a sign that you're going to be successful and get a job that's going to then carry you throughout your adulthood and Going $120,000 or $105,000, I think it's going to end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and everything.

What are you studying?

I was planning on double major in Pastoral Ministry and communications.

Emma.

Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making $58,000 a year.

And he's been doing it a long time. That's a successful worship leader.

It would take you seven to eight years to pay this off. No, no, no. Please, please, please, no.

What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job. If I could just do this job, it would be a dream.

Summer camp director.

Okay.

Love it.

I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what you need? Experience at a summer camp where you work your way into a director role.

That you can do for free.

So this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis. Because here's what... Let me play this out, and you can go watch the Bored Future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll to help you understand some of what we're talking about. My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out.

So you're going to have to go get a job. You're going to have to end up being an administrative assistant or something, which is not bad, but you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years, for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need. You don't. You don't need it.

Now, would it be a great time going to the school? I think so. But is it worth 120 grand for the price to have this experience? I don't think it is at this point. Now, if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go, Good for you. Go for it. But I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18, and it was 50 grand a year for four years, going to a film school. And I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, Please don't do this, young man. Yeah.

Because your future is going to be bright without them. When you look at scripture, Emma, every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now, it's not a sin. If you end up going, you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right? It's not a sin. But every time it's mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse. You are a slave to the lender. It is not wise. Go read Proverbs. Go read Proverbs. What God has set before you. And before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom. Figure out how much is in that account. Because I think you can go to a community college even for a little bit if you need to.

Listen up, people.

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Up next, we have, I think it's G in Los Angeles. Is it G?

Yeah, it's G. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, I did want some advice speaking on behalf And on behalf of my father. I wanted to know what it takes to start that conversation of retirement for him. I'm 31 years old, and I'm 65, 67 years old now, and he's been a long haul truck driver for almost 40 years now.

Oh, it's hard work.

He's been working very, very hard. I think maybe three or four days out of the month, I've seen him my whole entire life.

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

Yeah, he's worked very hard for what he's done. But as a long haul truck driver, a lot of it is paycheck to paycheck work. But what he's done very well for himself is live life a little bit frugally and understand what it took for him. And what he did was buy some farms in central California that have all been paid off now and stuff. And I'm just looking for a way to start that conversation with him.

Wow. Does he want to retire?

Yeah, that's one of the bigger caveat about this, he is a workhorse. And as a matter of fact, he just came back from New York today all the way back to Central California, and he already picked up a load for Friday to take off. Wow.

So is he the guy? Is he like a Dave Ramsey? He's just going to work until he's no longer with us.

He'll never retire.

Absolutely. That is his demeanor, and that's something I've never got in his way of. But here's the thing about long-haul truck drivers. It's hard on the sons because it is a huge... It's normal for a son having to get a call somewhere and fly to a different state in the US and have to find out that something happened to their father on the road, and they have to take them out.

Sure. It's dangerous. Yeah.

And that's one of my largest fears I mean, he's in great health. He's not the... Yeah, he works out- It's a quit-while-you-you-are-ahead situation.

And you're wanting him to just quit and retire. And he has the assets and resources to do so, based on these farms that are creating income?

So that's the confusion on my end, too. I'm just trying to figure out how we can use all the work that he's done. And yet, over the past 40 years, we've accumulated over 110 acres, me and him, together. And there We have four different properties. We have different houses on each property that also give us rental income, albeit those houses are humble homes. They're in migrant homes, and they're surrounded by farms, too. So they give us a little bit of income, but we don't really rely on it. And then since he's been driving truck, we've been leasing out our farms ever since. That gets our property taxes taken care of, pretty much at the end of the year and other expenses. Okay.

So if he quit today doing the truck stuff, how much income would he bring in from all these other sources?

So we get about $8,000 a month on rent.

And you're saying we? Are you all 50/50 in this? You've put in 50 %, he's put in 50 % Or has he put in more?

No, no. It's all his. But we do handle everything as a family, but he's the boss at the end of the day. So I should correct myself and say he does.

Okay. Your name isn't on any of these properties?

No, actually, I put it in. Well, he's put it in a trust since then that he's the executor. He bought these farms under his father's name, who had passed away.

Okay, so it's all under his control. And are you working outside of all this full-time?

Correct. Yes. So I moved out of it, and I moved to Southern California, and I'm an engineer here.

Okay. Great. So you have your own life, your own income.

So the 8,000 per month is what he would live on then, if he did retire?

More or less, correct. Okay.

And that's enough to cover his bills, it sounds like, being a frugal guy who's debt-free.

Does he have a home? Yeah. Is his home debt-free, paid off?

So all the homes and farms are all debt-free. So he bought all of these homes and farms at a very early in the '40s.

What about his home? His primary home. Is it paid off?

Everything Everything is paid off. Okay, good. That's amazing. Yeah, all of the properties together come out to about six million in value. Oh, wow.

So he could retire tomorrow. Your real question is, how do I convince him to stop working so hard?

Oh, yeah, that's part of the issue. Because the finances, it's all there. Should I even ask him? Yeah, and should I even ask him? Because another fear of mine is what happens to a gentleman when he does retire, they slow down.

And I do wonder, Tuki, if you guys can, and I don't know what this would look like, you're probably would getting a third opinion, a financial advisor. But if you have $6 million worth of something, but you're only making eight grand a month, you could be making 600,000 a month, or I'm sorry, a year, versus- It should be a better return on that. Yeah, the return is not great. And again, I'm speaking just from a numbers perspective, not like a legacy thing that you guys love the land or whatever it may be. But There may be a move that you guys sell half of this, three million in real estate, three million in the market. And he's living off, I don't know, 300,000 a year. It's what he could be. He didn't need that, I'm sure.

If you just put this in a high-yield savings account, three million, it could spit off over $100,000 a year. Yeah.

So I just wonder if there's a way to bring more money to you guys with this investment because it is worth so much. But again, you all may not want to do that, but that's one to be thinking about.

And maybe to diversify. It's great to have real estate and farm, but you may want to have some in investments, too, just to hedge your bets.

And my first solution was, Hey, why don't we start farming the farms again and start leasing them out to tenant farmers that we've been doing for so long. But he's had one different business adventure long time in the past, and he's never done that. And ever since then, he worked to pay off these farms.

So he got burnt one time, and now he's got a bad taste in his mouth.

Never, ever again. And then you did bring up a good point, too. It is a legacy thing for the son to go off the farms or something like that. It's just completely, how would I say?

It's too sentimental Right.

And that's not something, especially in our culture, we don't- What is your culture?

Can I ask? What's the background here?

I'm a North Indian, Punjabi.

Okay. Okay. I got you.

We also have farms and property in India as well, but those are completely different. Okay, cool. Okay. Cool.

Okay.

That makes sense. I would like to find a way to keep the farms. I mean, use the value and the equity that he's built up some type of way since buying these farms and be able to live off of that or give him some type of good, I guess, presentation of, Hey, this is what it looks like, and it's super secure and this is how you would live without having to.

Has he ever listened to you? And I mean that respectfully. Has he actually taken any of your advice and went, yeah, I'll do that?

Absolutely not. I actually did with one of the farms myself, a 1031 C with one farm, and I split it into two, which now consists of the two properties that are in the trust. And he didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half, two years. Oh, wow. Yeah.

So- Underneath all that, that's what I'm getting at. That's what's hard. I don't think you're in a position to influence him retiring. That's just a hard fact. That's a good point. It's just like, all you want to do to have a dad in your life and have him retire and be healthy, he's a grown man.

And it's such a hard belief. I think it's human nature to think, Okay, I'm going to go into this important conversation for this other person because you're wanting the other person to make a different decision than what they're making. And it's a belief that I feel like is a lie. If I just say it the right way, if I present it the right way, it's going to click, and it's going to click. And I just... I don't know. Maybe I'm cynical, but I know for myself, I'm like, you just have to get to this point in life, I cannot control other people. I can't. And maybe I can try one great conversation, but you're not going to change his mind. You're not. And so for your own peace of mind, Gee, if you want to do this and present something to him for yourself to have peace, to say, okay, at least I gave it my best shot. You can for you, but you got to go into that conversation with zero expectation that he is going to change. You would have conversation more for yourself as a 30-year, one-year-old son than to believe that you're somehow going to convince him.

Because if you don't want to change, if he's not curious or interested, it's not going to happen.

Here's the headline. This is the old quote, A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. And that's just, he's 65. This is all he knows. He's not interested in your opinion, unfortunately.

And he's done great so far. I think, like you're saying, you see that there's potential that he could be doing more. But nothing It's on fire here. But again, as a son, if you feel like I just have to say this for my own peace of mind, you can present him with something. But I would just continue to nurture that relationship and congratulate him on the work that he's done. You're a good son, man. Absolutely. You all, do you want to know a game changer for your grocery budget? Start your weekly shopping at Aldi. Seriously, by making Aldi your first stop, you can easily check off your family favorites, from fresh organic produce to grass-fed ground beef, marinated ready-to-cook chicken breasts, and high-quality dairy products. You'll be able to make incredible meals while keeping your budget on track. So no overpriced gimmicks or membership fees here. Now, real families like yours are saving up to $4,000 a year just by making Aldi their go-to grocery store every week. Find a store near you at Aldi. Us. That's ALDI. Us.

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When it comes to wills, George, especially online wills, there's a lot of questions around this. One question that we get all the time is, How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? Usually, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, an online will will be a great option for you. Another question we get is, what do I need to do to start my online will? When you're going to do it, you're going to have to figure out some questions and answer some for yourself, like who's going to get my stuff when I pass? Who's going to take care of my children if they're minors? Who do you want making decisions for you if you're incapacitated? Also, we get the question, is an online will legally valid? And yes, it is, but you have to make sure it's valid in your state. So a lot of wills are state-specific, so make sure that's the key for you. And then lastly is, why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made by a lawyer? So they're usually more convenient, they're less expensive, it takes less time to set up.

Again, if everything that you have is worth less than a million dollars, an online will is a great place to go. If you want to know more about this in your specific situation, you can go to ramseysolutions. Com/wills, and you can take a quiz online to find out which will is best for you. Up next, we have Sarah in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

So my husband and I were both physicians and surgical specialties. He's an only child. He has immigrant parents, and apparently he had promised them when he was young to support them once he graduates. And they bought a $1. 2 million home a couple months ago, and they've been guilting him into fully paying their mortgage and expecting more money sooner.

Wow. So this was carte blanche, blank check, Richie Rich, we're going to do whatever we want, and you're going to fund it. Was that the agreement when he was four years old?

Right. So when he was young, he's a really nice guy.

He's twelve. He's like, I'll take care of you.

Good.

Exactly. He's living it up. He's like, You guys brought me here, and I want to give back to you. But as he got older, he realized life costs money, and he doesn't want to give it all away. But they called after, and they're like, Well, you promised. You better give us this money. And so he did, and obviously feels horrible about the way it went down. He wanted to gift it, not feel forced into it. I just think, financially, this doesn't make sense for us. We have three young kids. We live in a 1,500 square feet, $300,000 home. We're living very modestly. They drive luxury cars. His mother has never held a job in her life, so she's been a stay-at-home wife for the last 18 years. I feel like we're being blackmailed by his parents.

Yeah. Did you say they're immigrants? They came in?

Yes.

Where are they from originally?

They're from Korea.

Okay.

And there's just an expectation that, Hey, we raised you, we gave you this great life, and now the tables returning, you take care of us.

Are they in a place at all, Sarah, to live this lifestyle themselves? Have they saved and have they been successful?

So his father's been in and out of jobs, but I think they do relatively well. I mean, they've been able to fund luxury cars until now. We don't have information about their finances, and my thoughts are, if we're going to be funding you, I'd like to know what's going on with your finances if I'm expected to take all of those on once his dad retires in a year or two.

Yeah, I mean, for sure.

This is causing a rift in your own marriage because you're clearly getting resentful of your own husband for letting this all happen and you not having a say in what happens with you all's Right. Not to mention- So you talked to him about it? About like, Hey, we need to put a stop to this. You need to talk to your parents. We need to have boundaries around this.

Yeah, the main issue is that he made this decision and gave them the money before talking to me. So he's just been sending it out.

How much money are we talking here?

So he's sending them $6,000 a month, and his plan is to eventually give them $12,000.

A month?

Good gracious.

A month. How much do you guys make a month?

Out of what comes into our- What's your take home pay?

Yeah.

Our take home pay monthly is 46.

Okay. And so he's giving a 13 % parent tax every month to support them. Yes. To support them.

But we both We both come from- 46? Yeah.

46 a month is what you're making?

46,000 a month. Yeah, he's a neurosurgeon, so he makes a decent salary, but we both have incredibly high med school debt.

Oh. How much do you left in debt?

We have all of it. We're hoping for the 10-year repayment, but who knows? So we each are like about 340 each.

340 each? Okay.

Each, yes, because his parents didn't help him. I come from very simple means my parents don't have a lot of money at all, which is another sore point. Why are we giving your parents who live a decent life all this money and my parents are living paycheck to paycheck and have never requested a penny. For sure. And we haven't given them. And I've supported us for the last three years as an attending physician while he finished training. And we used all of my money to pay all of our bills, to fund our lifestyle, to even gift money away. I haven't been able to gift my parents any money that I'd love to, but now we're handing out.

Well, the main issue here is you guys are not united on your financial goals, even the values of the family, and he's been doing things behind your back. So there's first a marriage issue, and then once we deal with that, he can deal with the parents. But you getting in the middle of talking to the in-laws, I don't think that's going to work out. Right. And so he needs to have a hard conversation, probably over a long period of time. I don't know if it's going to happen overnight that he just cuts them off. But I think there needs to be like, Hey, we can't do this. We have our own debts to pay. We have our own kids we're trying to raise. We don't want to put this on our kids to have to fund our life because we're broke because we gave it all to you guys, and we're going to need to do this for a season.

Sarah, Yeah, you and your husband, you guys really need to sit down and paint a picture of what you want your life to look like in the next 5 to 10 years. You guys want to be, I'm sure, get the student loans paid off. That's a goal that you're going to have. You want a goal to, I don't know, pay off the house. I don't know. You're a nuclear family. You and your husband very tactically need to start creating some goals of what you're shooting for because you're making, obviously, an incredible income. So So you don't want it just to disappear, whether it's going to the in-laws or not. And you want it to go as far as possible because there is major things that you can do in your life with this income. And one of those could be, I'm just saying with an Asterisk, could be being generous and giving some away to whoever, fill in the blank, right? But you don't even know where the money is going, what's happening, because you and your husband are not united. And so you guys need to unite as a household This is what we're doing with money.

And in that conversation, again, which I'm sure you have expressed to him, your disdain and how pissed you are that all of this is happening, and it makes no sense. It's not logical. It's unfair to take a 23-year-old son's word and hold it over his head for the rest of his life and their life. None of this is logical, so let's just say it out loud, and we need to get on the same page. And then from there, as a united front, then that's when he needs to go and talk to his parents. But I think that's the second issue. I think the first issue is you guys are just fractured all over the place.

Well, we did have a very intense, serious conversation, and his take was, Well, we'll just give your parents money, too. So I guess it's our goals are not aligned. He's not looking to save big. He's looking to give out all of our money.

Yeah, and that's not okay with you, and you're part of the household. So your voice is just as important as his. So how is he just giving them money? Does he You have a checking account that his money goes into?

Yeah. We put half of our money, half of our paychecks go into our joint account, and half of it is in our own personal. So he was just sending it directly from his personal account.

Right. So that's a breakdown. Do you know what I'm saying? Everything needs to go into one account. You all need to close your separate accounts. You guys need one account that you're functioning out of so that you are united front. And this is the fracture that happens when couples start to separate finances because it's, quote, unquote, his money is what he believes, and he's emotionally believing that because emotionally it is his money. It's in a different account. Your name's not on it. And so what that does, it starts to break down the relationship, and that's what we're seeing right now. And so that probably will make him feel very uncomfortable, that piece of advice, to be united. But I think it's a deeper goal for your marriage. Do you know what I mean? The health of that is really important. And then out of the health of the marriage, we can make these big decisions that are going to create conflict with family. But at least we're doing it united.

Let the money goals be villain instead of you. And say, Hey, we have big money goals we're trying to achieve. We got to pay off all this debt. We're not going to wait 10 years. We're going to do 18 months. Well, now all of a sudden, you don't have the money to give them, do you?

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Today's question comes from Hayden in California. I'm getting married soon, and my relatives who can't attend the wedding have asked for my Venmo info to send a monetary wedding present. I know that these relatives are in a lot of debt, and I've tried to encourage them to work the baby steps. Is it appropriate to accept a gift from someone who is deep in student loan and other debt, or should I decline the gift? It feels wrong to allow someone to send money when I know they can't afford to come to the wedding. And it also feels wrong to take money from someone who doesn't have financial peace. What should I do?

My gosh, what a pure heart. So it isn't.

My answer is simple. You take the money because it's none of your business. It's just you don't block a blessing. Someone wants to give. It's more shaming. It's so shaming to be like, I can't accept this gift because you are so broke. You are so broke. You should be embarrassed. It's up to them.

I agree. I know. I think you just smile and say thank you. And yeah, you take it.

I have people in in my life who are overly generous, who I'm like, They need financial help. Why are they being generous? And I learned to just let go because it was me drinking a poison. They're joyful. They're having a great time. Let them figure it out. And if they need help, I'm here for them. Yes. They know that. That's good. But that's, I think, a sign of growth and maturity when you learn to not feel like you need to intervene.

Yes. And I think a lot of gratitude is beautiful, too, because when people give a gift, or if you give a gift, and it's a really nice one, and someone I was like, No, no, no, no, it's too much. You're like, no, but I chose to do this. So I'd be more excited if the reaction was like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. Thank you so much. So just be grateful. And like George says, it's not your business.

And I don't know. Looking Back at my Wedding gifts, I don't know the financial situation of everybody who attended and what they spent and could they afford it. It's so true. Did they put it on a credit card to go on the flight to come to the wedding?

Totally.

I don't know. I know. Only God knows.

Only God knows.

God knows the heart.

It's a good Good question, though. Next, we have Brianna in Grand Rapids. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to finally get through.

Oh, we're glad you called. How can we help today?

Okay, so I I'm a newly single mom. I'm planning to buy a salon business that's in a leased space. It currently has six booth renters. I have the cash to buy it outright, but I'm wondering if I should use my savings or finance part of it to keep some cash on hand.

Okay. Financially, where are you at? How much debt do you have? Consumer debt.

I have about 12,000 in student loans. Okay. And I am leasing a car, which I got put into that.

But yeah, that's about it. Okay. And how much is in savings?

I have about 160, okay.

160,000 in savings. And how much is the business going to be worth? Or how much would you buy it for?

We agreed to 50,000.

50,000?

Yes. Oh, great. What exactly do you own for the 50,000? I'm sorry, what was that? What does the 50,000 get you?

Okay, so we're... Because it's a booth rent salon, that is the current revenue that she's making off of the booth renters in retail.

Is that per year?

Year.

Okay, so it's costing you one year of leases to buy the business?

Yes, that is what we agreed on.

That seems reasonable. Okay. Does it seem too good to be true? I would say so. Is there something you feel like is not there, or she's not telling you?

No, no. I feel really great about it. I'm very fortunate, and I do work in the business. It's been established for about six years. It's in a great location. Again, I I have a great reputation relationship with the other renters.

And will you be in charge- It's exactly what I need. And if one renter decides to leave, are you in charge of filling that spot?

Yes. Everything would be on my hands. They all decide to turn around and leave.

Do you feel competent to do that? Do you know this world and you have connections? You could probably figure out how to find somebody to lease out that remaining booth if someone were to leave. I do.

Yeah. Okay, great. I feel really good about it overall. I think what really is getting me a little scared is the financial piece of it. I have the money in my savings. I've just spent saving, saving. I wanted to buy a house this year, but sadly, on my income as a self-employed person, it's a lot harder than I thought because I wasn't showing a lot of my income. So I am renting. Obviously, I would love to buy a home one day. I'm hoping to do so with adding income, this salon business income into my income.

But I heard on- Yeah, how much would you make, if you did take this on, how much would you make in what you're doing now plus owning it, how much would you bring in a year?

I would say close to 100K.

Okay.

So you make 50 on your own, you get 50 from the leases, you're up to a six-figure salary. And then one year in, you'll get your money back, essentially, if everything goes perfectly, right?

So year two, it's pure profit. It sounds amazing. I honestly thought that you were going to say, I have 160,000 in savings and it's going to cost 160,000. I was going to give you a different answer. But the fact that it's 50,000, you'll still have a $110,000. Then when you pay off your student loans, which I want you to do, you'll have $98,000 in savings. I would take part of that $98, and I would get a six-month emergency fund as a single mom, and you're starting this new business, I would put six months of expenses aside in a totally separate high-yield savings account. You can open up one with Fairwinds Credit Union. They're amazing, but I would just put it in a totally different spot. Then whatever you have remaining, I personally would start working to use that for my down payment that maybe I'm going to have in the next 2-3 years.

Okay.

The other piece of the puzzle is this leased car. You may want to look at the buy-out amount. If it's way less half your income and you love the car, I would just buy it out outright and not deal with this lease anymore. It's going to stop the bleeding as soon as possible to get out of that lease versus hanging on to it until it's done and then owning nothing at the end of it.

Yeah. And can I just say, well done? To have 160,000 just saved up on the side. I mean, seriously, incredible. You're a hard worker. You know what you're doing. I think it sounds, from what you've presented to us, like a great opportunity. And it makes sense. You have the money. It's not wiping out your savings or anything. The risk feels low.

You're not riding on the edge. You've still got some cushion there.

Yeah, it sounds good. So that's so great. All right, real quick, let's go to Mason in Colorado Springs. Hey, Mason, get right to your question.

All right. Hey, guys. So my cool question is, so I'm going through a divorce right now.

Oh, sorry. I got about...

No, it's actually... It's actually probably the best divorce. We're still really good friends. We talk all the time. It's just It didn't work out.

Okay. Great.

But I got about 15,000 in debt from the divorce. And then I have $10,000 of my own, or like, 9,000. So 5,000 of that is in student loans, and sadly, the other 4,000 is in collections. So my question is going to be, what do I start paying off first? Do I start paying off the collections then the student, or pay off my ex? I'm trying to figure out what to start with for the baby steps. Yeah.

Did you say, so you said 5,000 in student loans, 4,000 in collections, and how much was for the divorce? 15?

15,000. Okay.

What's the agreement for the divorce as far as this payout? Is it like payment per month? Is it a whole amount you need to have at one Did divorce is over?

No, just per month. Just per month, like I said, it's a really, I guess you want to call it clean divorce. It's really good.

So is it like a thousand per month for 15 months? What was the agreement?

It's about 987 is the total per month. That's just minimums that I have to pay her until it's paid off. But we have agreed that if I pay off my portion first, that's totally fine, too.

Okay, Mason, what's in the collection? Is it credit cards?

Yeah, two credit cards.

Okay. And then. Okay. What I would do is I would call the collections agency, and you can probably talk them down. 4,000, I bet you could get pennies the dollar for it, honestly.

Maybe a thousand bucks or 1,500 to settle in full.

Settle it, get it in writing, get it settled. I would work down the debt snowball. I would do the collections, I would do the student loans, and then that $1,000 a month, be paying that, stay current on it. Then when you get to that $15,000, put as much as you can to get out of that divorce debt as fast as possible.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this next hour with George Campbell, my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour. We're taking your calls at 828-825-5225. Next, we have Jackie in Cincinnati. Hi, Jackie. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm in a situation where my husband is threatening to remove me from all the accounts, the credit cards, and threatened to leave me with zero. He's been pretty verbally, emotionally, and financially abusive, and then last night crossed over into physical abuse, and he was arrested. But I'm wondering, my question is how to protect myself. He's a finance guy, and he's really interested in laughing his way of knowledge against my ignorance and taking full advantage and putting me in a place of what he says, I'll need to go prostitute myself in order to have money, which is terribly sick, so. I'm just wondering what to do from here.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so are you safe right now?

I am safe right now. He just walked in from jail, so I'm sitting in my car. But he is the sole breadwinner Right now, our kids are now in college. I'm going to be heading back to work. But right now, he's a sole breadwinner. Okay.

And you'll be lagering up. I'm assuming, I mean, divorce is happening.

I know it sounds terribly foolish, but I told him, I don't want a broken home. I don't want broken hearts. I don't want a separate house, splitting belongings. I don't want to miss any time with my kids.

But, Jackie, he has opted out of this marriage in every way, shape, and form.

Jackie, You're not... Yeah, this is not a marriage anymore.

Correct. Correct. Agreed. Okay.

And your kids are in college, and their mom is going to make a really brave, hard decision, but she's going to make a decision that is best for her. I mean, Jackie, this is horrible.

It's terrible.

Yeah. If you lose love, respect, communication, trust, you don't have a marriage. Safety. Safety, Jackie. Provision and protection. I don't even know. He just walked in from jail into the house that you both still live in?

The literally when you guys picked up to take my call, he walked in and I had to run outside.

Can you drive away? I wouldn't be in the same vicinity as this guy. I would go to your friend's house, a family member.

Do you have good friends and family around?

No, no. That's another thing. I think he's shooken up because I've never taken action before. But when he shoved me last night into a door, I had no... That was the first time that he took it to physical. I can't live with myself if my kids were ever in that situation. I had to do it. I could not live with myself.

If there's one thing we know about abusers, they don't have a change of heart. They're just going to continue it if you let it happen. And so the fact that you're still there really scares me right now.

Well, it was my choice to say he can come out and work because he's the only one with a job. So he has rules to not harass and things like that.

Well, the rules don't matter if he controls all the purse strings and you get zero dollars.

Yeah, Jackie- That's what I'm worried about. That's what I'm worried about. Okay, so is your name on the account?

My His income is on the account. For the credit card, I'm an authorized user, but he's the full- Okay, your checking account where his income comes in, are you on that account? Is joint, correct.

Perfect. Okay. If I were in shoes, Jackie, I would be in that car, and when you get off the phone with us, I would drive to the bank, and I would create a new checking account, and I would take half of the money that is in that joint checking account, and I would put it over to your own checking account that he has zero access to. And I would have an amount of money, and then I would drive to a hotel, and I would get a room for the night. And until I can get with friends and family, I mean, I don't see how it's never going to go back to normal. And so what you've been living in is, sadly, I feel like is what we hear from a lot of victims of domestic violence is that you become almost used to it. And when you're sitting here telling us, two strangers, I mean, George and I, our mouths were just dropped open because of just the insane situation that you're in. And I don't feel like you see it. And you deserve better than this, Jackie.

Oh, I know that. I just don't want to break my kids' hearts.

So I'm holding it and hiding it for years. Jackie, staying with a dangerous man is breaking their hearts.

And they don't know any of it, so.

Yeah. Jackie, would I'm home- Did you want this for your daughter? What would you tell your daughter right now? Never.

Okay. That was my question that set him off.

Yeah. Okay. So, Jackie, answer your own question. You're someone's daughter.

I think they're sharper than you think. I think they're catching a lot of what's going on, and they're taking a lot of cues. Right now, you have an opportunity to show them the person you are.

And we do not promote divorce. That is something that... I mean, it has to be to a point where there is of no return. Everything you've just said in this call is that for me, 100 %.

Would you be okay if your daughter was staying in a relationship that's abusive?

Would you tell her to- Absolutely not. That's why we're saying, yes. So you wouldn't want this for your daughter. I don't want you to want this for yourself. But you're right. The financials, this is where we always say that We always are about combining finances, but the red flag goes up with a couple of different things. If there's abuse, which check that off for your list. If there's addiction that's not being addressed, if there's things that you need to protect yourself, you need a separate account.

Financial infidelity. Because you can't control his spending. What if he racks up a bunch of debt and your name is tied to that credit card?

Well, this is my second question. Has he opened a separate bank account last year because his mother sends him thousands of dollars that he can gamble and buy alcohol, drugs, and all that, and he plays with that money, and I can't access that. He could easily move the money in his alt account.

That's what I'm saying, Jackie.

You need to create your own financial ecosystem.

You need to get off the phone with us, and you need to drive to the bank.

Remove your name from any account that you're on. That's tied to him, freeze all of your credit with all three credit bureaus. You can call them up and have them freeze there, go online and do it, and then create your own checking and savings accounts that you have full control over. Okay. Honestly, I would pack up my stuff and I not be back in that house, and I would be contacting an attorney for next steps.

That's another thing. I don't even know where to begin. He thinks it's the funniest thing that he's just going to ruin me, and he thinks it's funny because he's in finance.

He thinks it's funny Because he's an absolute- Something I can't say or we'll get flagged.

And he knows that you're going to be a dormat, and he knows you're going to come back and you're going to say, Well, I don't want a broken home. He knows that he's holding all the cards. And so you need to show him that you mean business like you did yesterday when he went to jail for the night. And I think when he realizes, Oh, she's not coming back. Oh, she created her her own accounts. Oh, she took half the money. This is more serious than I thought. I don't think he's going to be laughing then when the courts demand that he pay alimony or child support, whatever it may be.

Yeah, our kids are adults, though. Well, I guess it would be alimony. I don't know. Yeah. No idea. Yeah.

There's laws that protect you here.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

And you're not a bad person for taking advantage of it.

And the law is on your side, and especially because there's a police report that's been filed. I mean, you have a lot of weight right now for you to use in your favor, Jackie, and we implore you to do that. I mean, for your own safety, Jackie, please.

I'd have a restraining order against this guy, let alone letting him walk back into my house after he hit me.

He's a manipulator, an abuser. It's every red flag you could imagine, Jackie. Just hear that from two strangers. It's so clear to us, and my fear is that it's not clear to you. If you wherever you are, Jackie- Join a local church, get a community around you who is willing to support you.

You need people in your corner right now.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Call us back if you need anything.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal.

And with all the click bait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. And so we are here to help you with the latest trends so that you can easily understand what is happening. So median home prices have dips a little bit last month to about $426,000 and a typical season shift as we head into fall. And buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. So if you are in the buying market, you're in the green light. So mortgage rates have also dropped slightly to 5. 5% in September, giving some buyers some breathing room. And since rates are unpredictable, the best time is when you are financially ready to buy a home, not just when rates drop. So obviously, it's in your favor when that happens. But if you are ready to buy a home, go ahead and get into the market to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home and you need some confidence, go to ramsey solutions. Com/market it, or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube.

All right, let's go to Brian in Syracuse, New York. Hi, Brian. Welcome to the show.

Hey, good afternoon. So, hey, exactly a month ago, I turned 40 and decided it was time to stop making excuses and create a will. So I hopped on Mama Bear legal forms, knocked it out, good to go.

Great.

As I'm reviewing it, I feel like there are some gaps in, I guess, what I would want my plan to be. So my question is, is there some supplemental document or something where I can really spell it out, like A to Z? And then how do I have an age-appropriate conversation with my kids. I have a teen and a pre-teen. I can't imagine anything that's going to happen anytime soon, but how do I begin to have those conversations so when it does happen, there's no surprises, and it's just pretty straightforward and we're good.

Yeah, I know. Those are some great questions. As well. I think from the relational standpoint, I think having an age-appropriate conversation with them is a great idea, especially if they're old enough to understand how life works. And pre-teen and teen, I feel like they're always smarter than we give them credit for and what they can handle, too. So, yeah, I do think it could be a good discussion. I feel like my parents did that. I don't remember a formal sit down, but it sounds morbid, but I think we always knew who we were going to go to if something happened to mom and dad. I think that was always a unknown thing. And weirdly, I feel like it gives you a little bit of security as a kid that... I don't know, because it's usually obviously people that you love. It was our aunt and uncle for us. And so I think talking to them. And again, you're sharing it. You're not trying to scare them. And just to say, Mom and dad have been doing some planning, and we want to bring you guys in, just so that you're aware. And if you have any more questions, we are here to answer.

And that's one thing I've learned with kids is you can give them some information, and if they're ready for more, they'll ask more questions, and you can be there to be truthful and answer them. But that's probably what I would do, is just sit them down and just say, Hey, we just want you guys to know that we've been doing some planning. As parents, we love you guys and love our family, and we want to protect as much as we can. If anything bad ever happens, and nothing probably bad is going to happen, but if it did, we did just want to let you guys know maybe who they would go to or whatnot. I don't know. That may sound too blunt, but- I mean, they do all kinds of drills in schools to prepare in case something should happen.

I think it's a good analogy to go, Listen, we do the same for our life. For what would happen. If something were to happen to us, here's what would go on. And so what's the extent of the discussion you're wanting to have with them?

I'm thinking I will need this for another 50 years anyway. I certainly hope. But it's just It's just me. And my brother is the executor. And honestly, it's a big thing, like my house. It would go to them, but they're 12 and 14. What in the world are they going to do with a house?

Oh, Sure. Well, it would be held by the executor until it's time. And once they're adults, then they would have access to those assets. And so there are situations as you get older and as you build more wealth, you can then move into a trust where you can get a little more fancy and complicated. But a will That's what you can do a whole lot. I mean, you can add a whole lot of clauses in there, just a detail. You add as much detail as you want.

Yeah. So maybe I need to go back through because I can edit for still quite a while and add some more detail. Yeah, that's really the biggest thing. I don't think my networth is high enough where a trust makes sense right now. But at the same time, I don't know that I would want to hand them the keys when they're 14 and 16. No, you wouldn't. I mean, legally, they're in their 60s.

And legally, they wouldn't just get a house.

Yeah, they wouldn't get it until 18 or unless specified otherwise.

Yeah.

So that would be something to think through, whether it is a home or any cash available, when you would want that to be available to them, right? At what age? Would you want it specified for college? I mean, if you have college funds, all of that. As detailed as possible, I think, is a gift to those. If that will ever has to be activated, that you're able to That's what I'm looking for.

Yeah, I think maybe I need to go back through and I could add some more detail. And then I guess at what level, how granular should the discussion be with the executor? Who'd be my brother? I trust him. He's great. The idea is I want it all in a document. So if something were to happen, there's just no questions. It's just there in ink, and then he can just execute on it. It's not that I expect anything to be dramatic, but just so it's nice and clean, easy, and not a structure for anyone. Yes.

Well, from a legal perspective, you can put as much in the will as possible. And then Then this would not be necessarily as legal. But for him, specifically, just as a level of communication, you could create a word document. Do you know what I'm saying? He'd be like, Here, the will is going to take care of the legal side, but here are my wishes more specifically, directionally, if you don't want to put all that detail into the will. But the will should be able to cover, from a legal perspective, exactly where you want things to go in custody of the kids and all of that. But for your brother- He'll manage the assets until they're adults.

And so that's just part of it, and you can specify that in there.

Great. Cool. So looks like I should go back and just do some more detail work, have that conversation with them, and it should be good.

Yeah, for sure. And I think it's always a good idea to loop the person in who is going to be helping.

Yeah, no surprises. We're like, I put their name in there, but I didn't want to tell them. Yeah.

Uncle Cody is now getting two kids, and he's like, Wait, what?

You want to make sure they actually are willing and able and agree to it. That's part of it. For sure. But you're doing the right thing, Brian. I'm really proud of you, man. It's awesome.

All right, let's go to Jada in Atlanta. Hi. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, George.

Hello. How can we help today?

So I was wondering if I should pause the baby steps and save up some money for a new car and some other things. Just some background. I'm recently divorced, and I have a two-year-old, so I I don't have a lot of time to do side hustles. I do try to do Uber Eats and DoorDash, but there's not so much I can do. Yeah.

How much do you make, Jada, from your job?

I make about 55K a year. Okay.

And how much debt do you have?

I have about 47,000 in debt.

Okay. What are those debts?

About 3,000 is for medical bills. I have about 3500 on a credit card. I have a thousand dollars left on my transmission that I have to pay off because my car broke down a couple months ago. And then the rest is student loans, about 35,000.

Thirty-five thousand. Okay, perfect. When you're doing your budget month to month, do you have any margin at all? Like a couple of hundred bucks, even?

Maybe like two.

Two hundred dollars? Okay. It varies. And any savings? No. No savings? Okay. And And how's your car doing right now?

It's okay. It's definitely not in the best condition, and it makes me want to get something else because I end up having to do an oil change every two to two and a half months because it burns so much oil.

So could you make this work for another six months or so and save up and get a different car? Because I'd be okay with you pausing the steps to get you reliable transportation from A to B.

I think I think I could. I'm hoping I can, honestly. I'm not sure, but I hope so.

Yeah. Well, if it's pausing for a short period of time to see if you can sell your car and save up maybe another extra thousand or so, put it with it. That's great. But as long I mean, if you can put that money towards at least $1,000 emergency savings, I think is the number one goal before you go and try to replace the car. So I'd try to get that $1,000 ASAP.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Rachel Cruz, and we've got a special guest on the debt free stage, it's Kari. How are you doing, Kari? Doing good. So a little birdie told me that you work for U-Hall, and they are smart dollar users. So if you don't know, smart dollar is our financial wellness product that we created for organizations for HR to have this as a benefit to their employees to help them get financial peace and take control of their money. And you have gone through that. Yeah. Fantastic. Amazing. Well, we're grateful you've joined us today.

Yes. Where do you live? Phoenix, Arizona. Okay, so great. And how much debt have you paid off? 33,000. Amazing. What did that consist of?

That was 25,000 in a heelock and about 8,000 in credit cards.

Oh, incredible. Well, I know some of your coworkers are probably listening to this call, so we're not going to ask your income just to let that happen.

Don't make it weird in the break room.

No, but- How long did it take?

It took me 18 months.

Oh, wow. Fast. Year and a half. Done.

Knocked it out.

Good for you, Kari.

That's awesome. So what got you started on this journey?

I had credit cards, and that's what I used to pay for anything that I couldn't pay with my paycheck. I was paycheck to paycheck and living beyond my means. And it was credit card after credit card. And that one would get maxed out, I'd get another one. And there was a day where I specifically remember, I was in my home gym, and I had my third credit card, it was maxed out. I thought, Oh, I'm just going to call them up. I'll call them and I'll get that increased. And they said, I'm sorry, your debt to income ratio, you don't qualify for anymore. And that was just the moment like, something has to be done.

When even the lenders are like, Yeah, we're not going to let you borrow any more money. You know you're deep in it. You're cut off. Wow. And that's when you had this moment of I got to do something different. And then how did you get connected to us? Was it through SmartDoll originally, or have you heard about us before then?

Yeah, my son was using the app and doing the program on his own. And I thought, I think I've heard about that. I think I've seen something about that at work. So I'm going to check and see. And I looked more into it, and they're like, Yeah, it's completely free. We give you this. You get the Every Dollar app, which has been totally a lifesaver to see I'm a numbers person. So I want to see Where am I? Where I'm spending too much and where I could maybe save some.

That's awesome. What's your role at U-Hall? What do you do?

I am in sales.

Okay.

So I work from home. Yeah, I'm in home sales. Nice. Almost 15 years.

Great. Okay, so when you started it, 18 months ago, was it hard to get on board? Was it hard to change the way you used to handle money and now you're doing something totally new? Or were you at a point of desperation where you're thinking, I will do anything. I will do anything to get out of this? Well, it was a little of both because it was a necessity.

I mean, if I was going to not lose my house and not lose my stuff, I had to make the changes. It was a necessity. But it was hard, of course. It was hard. I was used to living a certain way. And if I wanted to go to dinner, I just put on credit card and I worry about that later. That's right. If I wanted to go out and get something, it wasn't a second thought.

Yeah, that's for future Carrie's problems. We'll figure it out later. It came quicker than I thought. Yes. Okay. So during the time... Okay, so the hardest part was probably saying no to yourself of what you're used to. Changing the habits. Yes. Were there people cheering you on during the process?

My parents Yes, for sure.

Yes. Great. Is this them right there? Yes. Okay. So if you're watching it on YouTube, they're here in the lobby. Great. So wonderful. Wow.

What was one of the hardest things that you had to make a tweak to or cut out completely from the budget that you used as fuel of like, one day I'm going to have this back in my life, but right now it's got to go in the name of freedom.

I think it was mostly eating out. We used to do that a lot. That was our thing. That was our release. You've had a stressful week or something, you're going to go out, and I don't want to cook. I want to take it easy. And then I would just do that and just be like, No, think about it. It's just what we would do for fun. That was our fun. So it was meal planning and cooking and going to the grocery store and all those things that aren't so fun, but it's so worth it in the end.

Yeah. Did you see a big change? Because we always tell people to cut out to eat because of how much it eats into your income. Did you see that difference, grocery shopping and cooking versus eating out? Oh, for sure. So much different because I didn't I had to do a budget before.

It was like, if I had the money, I would do it, and if not, I'd put it on credit.

Actually, looking at how much money I was spending on eating out, it was sickening. Yes. I think everyone feels that way.

Most people just never look. They just would rather not know. Exactly. They don't want to know. Once you do the math, you can't unsee it. And then you go grocery shopping and cook at home, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I save $500 this month just by being intentional.

Way to go. Yes. Were there people making fun of you at all? Some of your friends or anything? Or was everyone-Come on a happy hour.

Come on.

Or was everyone cheering you on? They're like, Good for you, Carrie.

A lot of people didn't know that I was doing that because it was very private with my money. A lot of people didn't know I was in debt to begin with. Not even my family knew. So it wasn't something you go like, And I don't think a lot of people tell you how much credit card debt they have.

And what was the heelock about? At what point did you take that on and what did you use it for?

That was the worst decision I've probably ever made. They make it seem like, Oh, you're going to save this money. I remember them saying, You'll save $600 a month by combining your debt and putting that together.

Oh, you rolled your debts into a heelock? Yeah, that was what we did. Like a consolidation.

We did a little bit of remodeling for our house. We did the bathroom, but we paid off the car. We put the credit card debt on there.

You just moved the debt around and you felt better about your life.

Yeah, because I was saving money. I was saving money by doing that.

They convinced you. Yeah, they had a great sales pitch, and you're in sales, and you're.

This is it. You keep saying we. Is that your- I have a fiancé as well. Fiancé? Okay, so great. How was that relationship as you were working your way out of debt? Was he on board? Was he cheering you on? No.

He was on board for me, but our finances are separate. So he's on his own financial journey now.

Sure.

He's like, I'm still going to eat out. You do what you want to do.

Yeah, I was going to say that's impressive. To be in a relationship like that. And you were like, Hey, I'm making these changes. With or without, I'm doing it. Yeah. Well, maybe he'll see the peace and the control that you have. Yeah, maybe you'll rub off on them.

It has. He has his $1,000 emergency fund now.

Oh, look, okay.

He's not using credit cards. So he's very proud of me.

That's great. And it has rubbed off a little. Yes, that's great.

I love it. We're so proud of you. I know a lot of your coworkers, family are watching your son, I'm sure, is way to go, mom. Yeah, was he happy? That's pretty wild that your son got you inspired to do this.

He did. And he just paid off his debt. He is debt free. He couldn't be here with me today because he's saving up for his wedding.

Oh, look, yes. My guy. Oh, I love it. Yeah, he's debt-free now, too.

Great. Three generations of debt-free.

Look at you.

That's literally changing your family tree. So powerful. We are so proud of you, honored you came to visit us, and so thankful to U-Hall for the partnership they've had with Smart Dollar and helping their own employees become debt-free. Why would you not want that for your own team? I love to see companies get a hold of this and offer it to their team. All right, you ready for this?

I'm ready.

It's Kerry from Phoenix. 33,000 paid off in 18 months. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one.

I'm debt-free. Just like that. I love it. Imagine yourself now, and then fast forward 18 months from now. That's pretty wild to think about. You could be completely debt-free just by getting a little bit focused, a little bit intentional, making a few sacrifices.

I mean, yeah. And you heard her. She was like, Gosh, all these expenses when I actually started looking and seeing where I was spending, that actually can create the margin to then just completely snowball into the debt to be able to pay it off that much faster.

Yeah. It really isn't rocket science. It's just paying attention instead of just being in denial, being ignorant, just doing what you want like a child. Instead of having a little bit of delayed gratification, a little bit of intentionality and going, What did I actually spend? What could I be spending? And how can I use that newfound margin? And that's what's so great about the all new every dollar is it helps do that for you now with all the personalized recommendations. And you heard her, we didn't pay her to talk about every dollar, but she was like, that was the game changer.

Yeah. Well, and her son had it. And that was another thing I thought. We get so many calls from people in their 20s and 30s and like, Hey, I want my parents to do this stuff, but they won't listen to me. And we always say, Well, if you just do it, they're watching and they're hearing you and your conversations around money. And you could see that's exactly what happened, right? He was living his life financially, being wise and getting control. And when his mom hit this wall financially in her own life, she thought, Oh, my gosh, my son is doing something. I wonder what that is. So you never know with that example that you're taking on because you could have a family member like Carrie, and then she gets it, and then she's debt free 18 months later.

Absolutely incredible. Boom.

Our Scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 24: 16, That the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked, stumble when calamity strikes. Serena Williams says, I really think a champion is defined not by their wins, but how they recover when they fall.

Beautiful. Also easy to say when you win a lot. You know what I mean? It's not all about winning, guys.

But I just win everything I do. Serena Williams. Oh, so great. All right, let's go to Nate in Lansing, Michigan. Hi, Nate. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Yeah. Thanks a lot for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, my wife and I are looking I'm waiting for a little advice here. She is on the leadership team for a hospitality-based company out of Florida that is selling to a larger company in New York. The owners of her company met with her and said that they would like to recognize her years of service and loyalty by giving her a $600,000 bonus from the proceed of the sale.

Whoa. Okay.

That's wonderful. She figured she might get something from this, but this The large of an amount wasn't a pleasant shock to both of us. So the only caveat here is that she is likely, after the new company gets on its feet from the merger, the new company may let her go within a year. Sure. But we're just looking for advice on what we should do with this 600,000.

Oh my gosh, how great.

What does she make?

Her annual income is 190,000 a year.

Okay. Fantastic. How old are you guys?

She's I'm 40.

Oh, wow. Okay. And how much do you make a year?

140,000.

140, okay.

Fantastic. This is a power couple by definition.

I know. You all are doing so great. Okay. Financially, where are you guys at? Do you guys have any consumer debt?

No, we only have what's left on our mortgage, and we have a stupid low interest rate. So that's the only thing. We have 177,000 on the mortgage, and we're debt-free otherwise.

Amazing. Okay, well, usually when we talk about this type of money that you fall into, well, I shouldn't say she works very hard, and that's incredible that they're recognizing her with that. But there's really the three big buckets to dip into, and that's giving, being generous, saving, and enjoying some of it. And then I would add, I would throw the mortgage piece in there as well. So if I woke up in your shoes, I would pay off the mortgage. I would be completely debt-free, and you guys would have about $400,000 left. I mean, $420, $430. Out of that, I would give some. I would find something that you guys, you don't have to be urgent about it, but find something that as a couple, as a family, that you guys are really passionate about, that you love, and I'd set some money aside for some giving. Then beyond that, you could put this in an index fund or mutual funds from the investing side, and then I would enjoy some of it. Maybe there's a big trip you guys have been wanting to do, if you guys need to replace any cars or anything like that.

I want you to spend and enjoy part of this because- You've earned it to upgrade your life a little bit.

Yeah.

I appreciate that. We're doing pretty well otherwise. We do have $90,000 in a savings account, and I'm on the fence on whether that's too much. We do plan to retire a little bit early, though. So that's another thing here.

I think this becomes your non-retirement brokerage account Bridge fund that'll get you to, 59 and a half when you can access those retirement accounts without penalty. So I love the idea of you're going to need to set aside some of it for taxes, right? Exactly. Your bill is going to increase severely this year, which is fine. But figure out how much that's going to be and set that aside in a separate savings account to be ready for that. I would pay off the mortgage personally, regardless of the interest rate, just because it's going to free you guys up to have total freedom, total margin, more cash flow coming in that you can use for the rest of your life. Maybe you upgrade the house down the road, maybe you upgrade the cars. Like Rachel said, we're going to give some, spend some, and then whatever's left over, I would just park in that brokerage account and let that be the start of your Bridge fund.

For retirement is what you're saying, to retire early.

So if you guys want to retire at 50 or 55, you've got a nice cushion to get you there.

Even if that interest rate is just below three, That's what it is. We talked about this last night, and she's like, Well, I'm interested to hear what they have to say on the show, but what if we didn't pay the mortgage off and invested it and just hoped to beat that 3 %? Does that make sense? Yeah.

Of course, yeah. It's the number one argument we get with telling people to pay off their house.

And you're in the unique position where you could literally write a check and pay off the mortgage today, whereas most people are just hypotheticals. They don't actually have the money. But when you look at just how much you're paying an interest, it's still, even at 3 % on a loan that size, you're just like, Why am I giving the bank a thousand bucks this month? This is silly. To me, you're going to be multi, multi, multimillionaires. Whether it's seven and a half million or 7. 2 million, I'd be happy to have that argument down the road.

Yeah, and what you don't equate for, Nate, and we talk to people all the time who have paid off their houses, that there's just a level of peace that you can't put in an Excel spreadsheets, and that you try to find the spread here or there. You're not going to find genuine peace of mind knowing that you don't owe anyone anything. No bank is over your head at all. You are completely free. So what I would encourage you to do is I would pay it off. And then if you hate it, if you hate being debt free and you really want a mortgage, you could borrow in the house and get a mortgage again.

It'll be like 6 %, though. So that's really going to put a damper in your plans.

I don't care. But it's the idea that you would never go back into debt once it was paid off.

When you told us There's a possibility she gets laid off in the future. And so not having a mortgage just makes that a yawn. Okay, guess she gets to look at the next thing she's doing instead of, Man, we really got to lower our lifestyle because this mortgage payment was three grand. Obviously, you guys are doing so well that I don't think that would be issue, but it's just going to only increase your piece. And you're talking to two people who don't have a mortgage payment, and this is something that we would do. I would do it all over again, regardless of its one % or seven %. I'm just going to knock it out because the bank doesn't get to tell me I own my house or not.

Yeah, that was my sentiment, too, in our discussions. Obviously, it's a team decision here, but she's very supportive of me coming on the show and getting some outside advice. So thank you very much. Absolutely.

Yes, absolutely. Congrats. Yes, absolutely, Nate. And well done.

She's earned it. I think this is my dream, is just give her a shopping spree. You know, whatever her favorite stores are, go, You know what? Here's a couple of thousand. Ten grand in a day. You have to spend it. Just go.

Go.

How great would that be? One woman is like, No, I don't want to do that. That sounds terrible.

That sounds awful.

No, thank you. Make it a weekend. Spa day, one day, a shopping day, another day, and one day just for recovery, because that was a lot. It was stressful.

There was a lot of effort that went into that. Yeah, that is one argument. I mean, I don't even say argument. He was not being argumentative about it. But one take that from a math standpoint, we hear a lot. If you did have a lower interest rate, the 2, 3%, and you could be making easily 15% in the market, even more so from this past year.

Or even in a high-yield savings. I can make four in the high yield savings, and the mortgage is three, what's the point?

And so that is something that we hear. We hear often from the math nerds. And again, from a mathematical standpoint, we understand it. We're not stupid. But there is something about personal finance where we always say it is 80 % behavior, it's 20 % head knowledge. What you do, the person you are handling the money, is the bulk of your money problems and your money solutions. And when the person handling the money, aka you, you are completely free Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And when you do not owe anyone anything, there is a level of rest and peace and sleep at night that you just don't always get knowing I have to pay this. There's a level of risk. And again, their numbers are big. So would they pay it? Probably, yes. But there's just something to be said that you just can't take it away. You can't take it away.

Well, there's something to be said for wanting to solve for the spread that you could make versus just solving for peace. And they're just two very different goals. And so it's not an apples to apples argument of on paper, I could make this. Listen, you're playing checkers over here. I'm playing chess. It's just a different game.

It's a different game. And that's fine. What do you want? We have to own that. Yes. Our goal with this show is solving for peace, getting control of your money. So money is not an issue in your life that you get to go through it through life. And money is a tool to be used, but it's not a point of stress for you. All right, George. Great show. Thanks. It's always been a great co-host, everyone in the booth. Thank you, guys. And for you, America, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.