Transcript of Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by best-selling author, Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Peter is in Philadelphia to kick us off. What's going on, Peter?

Hi. How are you? Just stressed about bills and thinking about bankruptcy.

Oh, man. How much debt do you have?

A little over $25,000.

What debt is that?

Maybe closer to $30. Car, personal loan, hospital bills, Gas bill.

And what's left on the car?

The car is 10. The personal loan is 11. And that's just personal loan, just because I'm trying to get myself out of a jam, so I go back into it.

You're in a cycle. What do you make?

Right. 126 base salary. And I think last year, I pulled in about 180 for the overtime.

America just You've lost all empathy here. You make $130,000, and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over $20,000? Yeah.

What else is going on? What else is eating your lunch? Because it's not $25,000 of debt.

You could pay off this debt in less than six months.

No, that's over time. I mean, I do have other things. I take care of my kids.

Okay, tell us about that, because right now we're trying to understand where is the problem.

Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just Whatever they need and whatever their mom needs, I'll just take care of.

That's true. But again, if you were- But other than that, I'm not going to lie, misspending. Okay, that's what it is. Because even if you were married with the kids in the house, taking care of them, $125,000 income would still be a great income. So it's not the kids. It sounds like you're overspending in other areas. Do you have any budget that you're on? No, not really. Okay, there's the problem. So I guarantee to you today, if you were to just do an old-school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, All right, here's the money I take home, my net amount when I take home my check, and now I write down what I'm spending money on, and I'm just going to go back through my bank statement, I think you would see the problem. Are you dating anybody? No. Okay, so then you're just spending money on yourself. Is it food? Are you doing a lot of door-dashing?

If I looked at your bank statement, what would I see as the number one thing that you're overspending on?

I don't know. Maybe fast food. Yeah, I guess going out fast food.

You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks, anything like that?

No, I don't have time for that. I work too much over time.

Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. We could talk about taxes and nickel and diamond, but essentially, if you made $100,000 a year, 126, you could live on $100 and pay this debt off, right? At the basic level, in less than a year. In less than a year. Can you live on $100,000 a year? I think so. I think so, too. You're a single guy. I mean, yes, you've got your kids to take care of. How many? Two?

Three.

Three. Okay. How old are they?

16, 20, and 9.

Okay. And the 20-year-old is she in college? Mm-hmm. Yeah. What do you put towards that every month?

About 600.

Okay. And what are you taking home? What ends up in your paycheck? Is it $8,000?

Oh, that's right. I also have a pension loan now.

A pension loan?

Tell us about that.

Yeah. I totally forgot What about credit cards? I got about that because that comes out of my check automatically. So I think I have probably about $24,000 left to pay on that.

Okay. How much comes out of your check?

So that out of my check is 463 every two weeks.

What caused you to take that pension loan?

Oh, that's a long story.

Okay. What about credit cards? Are you using those?

No. Oh, glad you said that. I got about 6,000 on Capital One. Okay.

That one at four. Now it's starting to come to view.

We went from 25 up to 50. Now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about? Like, Hand on the Bible. What else do you have going on? Student loans.

I forgot about the Capital One card.

Did you forget about student loans?

I cut it off a year ago. No, I don't have any student loans. Okay, good. Thank God. Is any of this in collections?

The Capital One card. Okay. And the gas bill.

All right. Are you ready to take control of this as a grown man with three about grown kids? And you're like, Dude, I'm ready to clean up my life. Because if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you are. No, I got it.

Yeah, I am.

Okay. I'm just too stressed out. Starting tonight, you're going to make this budget, and it's going to give you so much peace just to have the numbers laid out in front of you. Even if it's scary, even to go, I don't like what I see. At least it's not the boogie man on all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. We're going to gift you every dollar to actually make the budget. It's a digital app you can download, and you're going to list out your income for the month. If that's 7,500, you list that in the income section. Below that, you're going to list every expense you can think of, including your minimum debt payments. What you're going to see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw with the debt.

I want you to use your bank statement as a guide when you do this, because I feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. If you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food, right? When the reality is you might spend $1,100 on food, right? So go back, get the bank statement for September, and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November, okay? That's going to let you see, okay, now you're going to see, Oh, yeah, this thing came out. Now you're going to see, Oh, yeah, this is what I spend on gas. It's going to take you... If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes. But I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done. But it's going to give you, like George said, so much peace. The other question is, are you investing at all?

No, nothing serious. Just pennies on Robin hood.

No, boy. Okay. Let's delete Robin hood for now. Can you promise me that? Yeah. Okay. We're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time.

And what do you get every year when you do your taxes? What refund do you get?

I don't. Last year was the first time I owed.

Okay. Okay, good. Yeah. The budget, I mean, it's the bloodwork. It tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

Okay.

So once you do this budget, you're going to figure out your main expenses. Here's like food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're going to get real judicious and cut out. And that means Is eating out, that's got to go because we got to clean this mess up, and we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months. Does that sound better? Yeah. Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say, just using ballpark numbers, and you throw 2,500 a month at this. You're done in 22 months, less than two years. That sounds great, right? Yeah. We avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next seven years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over debts these small.

Yeah.

And so I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar. Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity. And the new every dollar in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so it's like we're going to be in your pocket guiding you along the way on this journey. And we are rooting for you, man. We think you're worth it. You can do it. We think those kids are worth it, and you're very capable. If someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year, you are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it. Debt is not a shortcut. It's not the answer, man. You are. If you ever googled yourself, here's the two worst things you can find: photo evidence of your worst haircut and your personal data floating around on some sketchy website. I mean, the bangs were regrettable, but your info being bought, sold, and reposted all over the World Wide Web, even worse.

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So start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. Tiffany is up next in New York City. What's going on, Tiffany?

Hi, George and Jake, can you hear me well?

Yes. What's going on?

Okay, perfect. So my mother-in-law, she is currently 60 years old. She has nothing saved for retirement. She's pretty much banking on the idea that my husband and I would take care of her when she's physically unable to work anymore.

What's her health like now at 60?

She is blind in one eye, so she used to work at a nail salon, but because after losing sight in one eye, she is unable to work there. She is currently working, ironically, as a caregiver.

Okay. What does she earn? Do you know?

I don't know the exact amount, but I do know it covers basically her necessities, rent, utilities, food, and transportation.

So how long has she been single? How long has your father-in-law been out of the picture?

So father-in-law is still in the picture, but they're separated. They're divorced.

Okay. But how long has that been?

I would say over 20 years.

Okay. My point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own, and you're just saying she just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're- Yeah.

So pretty much she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. And then with her current job now, she can only take on so many hours because she says physically she can't work full-time. So basically, she's just doing what she can. But I'm just worried because she really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a… I think she had 20K saved up. But then when she was out of a job, after she lost her job working as a nail tech, she went through all that. So she's basically at nothing now.

What's your husband say about all this? What's he think?

Their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one. She recently got back into my husband's life. I would say since 2020, their relationship was a little bit strained because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. And my husband was, I believe he was a teen when this had happened. She only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

Wow. Interesting. Is he wanting to help her at all in any way, or are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, Hey, we can't support you in any way?

I think he's at a situation where, of course, he doesn't want his mother out on the street. Sure. God forbid, something more had to happen. But we both agree that there would be a lot of resentment towards her if we have to bear all the financial responsibilities.

What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house?

How does she live? Yes. She is renting, but she's renting with two other roommates.

Great. So So it's like Golden Girls over there or what?

Pretty much.

Sounds awesome. That is awesome.

Her rent is $1,000. So if she puts explicit the way it is New York City, so rent's expensive.

So she has $1,000 for rent. What's your financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

I think we're doing pretty well. We do have our first child that was born May of last year. So the only thing is, of Of course, with rent that we're paying and then there's daycare costs, unless we want to give up, I guess, our retirement, I feel like... I don't know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side for her retirement.

It's not. But let's even see if it's necessary. So the questions that I would have, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more facts. So first off, I'd want to make sure I'm not assuming that she wants me to take care of her. I want to know point blank. And so I'd probably sit down and ask the question.

Oh, no. Yeah. So when the situation happened, when she had lost her job earlier, and she had to get surgery, eye surgery. Around that time, when she was out of the job, she did come to my husband to ask for money.

Just on a one-time thing or say, Hey, you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement. I hope you know. Those are two different things.

My husband set a boundary. He said he was going to only get her money for three months, and he had expected her to get back her fee after she recovered. And he said, That was it. I'm only going to give you money for three months, and then you're on your own. But of course, if he's a softy in the sense that if she was out of money and she may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen. Sure.

Because here's what I'm... I'm going to just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work because you lost your job because of your vision. There's that, and then there's you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you are making an assumption, and I can see why you're jumping to that. I can see why you're doing that, but I'd want to know that. And then if It does seem like, Hey, no, this really is the expectation. I've gotten clarity on that. Then I'd want to know, Okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances. Right, George? You better be telling me, What's your Social Security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills.

If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills and what your spending is. That's part of this deal. But I would really push to have her live an independent life, and that's going to take some coaching. I don't think you should get in the middle of it if it's his mom, Yeah. Okay. It's going to sound like we love you. We want to make sure that you're taken care of. We also need to have a plan for you to live independently. Right now, we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We live in a high cost living area. We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. Here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you into a sustainable place. But we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all of your bills. We can't do that. Then it's It's on her to figure it out.

She's a grown woman. Yeah, because there's still time. There's time here for her to create something for herself. If you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. If you can help her understand, Okay, you're 60. You've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself. Here's how you do it. I think that's a wonderful thing. But all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her, and then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. That's what I would do.

And if it gets to the point where she is truly disabled, then she can get on disability. That's true. And eventually, maybe she'll get some social security if she decides to take that at 62 or three or whatever. And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you and you becoming bank of Tiffany is going to be a bad plan because you're right, it's going to create resentment and it's going to create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, Well, why even I work full-time. I can work part-time or maybe not work at all if they're just going to float my life. So that's this scary, slippery slope that we're headed towards.

Yeah, that's true.

So that's going to be you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it, spit shake saying, I know you're a softy, you can't give in. When she goes, Yeah, but everything I've done for you. It's like, Hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done, and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years.

I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is, a lot of us experience these... We start to see these cracks financially, expose themselves in family members or in our aging parents. It's like we just watch it happen from afar. You have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations. You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path because a lot can happen in 10 years financially. You can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. If you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idly. Go be about some business and get some information.

If you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. When my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them. Right. Goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll. That's the resentment it creates when you put this on your kids.

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Hi there. Thank you so much for taking my call. Jordan Jade. Sure. I do just want to say to really quickly, thank you guys so much for what you do. I found the podcast two months ago, and it's given me so much direction in my life, and I just think you guys are changing life. So thank you for that.

Oh, thank you. Thanks for listening. We're glad it's been helpful for you.

Yeah, it's been great so far. Lots of work to do. We had a series of unfortunate events that took place over the pandemic, and it caused us to take on quite a bit of bad debt. So we made improvements on the home with plans of investments coming through, and those investments did not take into fruition and essentially went to zero. So since then, we've been really treating our heelock like a giant credit card prior to me finding this podcast. So I'm in Canada, so our mortgage is up for renewal in June. I'm in Baby Step 2, and the amount of the heelock is so overwhelming that I feel like I'm not sure whether I should be rolling it into our mortgage in June or whether we should be continuing for the next five or six years on paying it down, keeping in mind that I have three kids who are looking to go to university in the next five to eight years. How much?

Yeah, How much is the HLAA?

So the HLAA is at $400,000.

Oh, my gosh. What's your income?

So our income... Well, before or after tax. We've got some pretty hefty taxes.

Before taxes.

Before. Oh, before Before, about 500 a year. Oh my gosh, woman. You couldn't cash flow the renovations making half a million dollars? Yeah, but after tax, it's only about 300 a year is what we take home.

Okay.

Okay. Well, what's your- It's significant. What do you owe on the house, aside from this?

Yes. So we have a mortgage for 750,000, and that's at 3. 6 %. But the house is valued at 2. 5 million.

Okay. What's the percentage on the HLAA? What's the interest?

It's 4. 5.

Okay. And then what other debt do you have outside of the mortgage and Helic?

That's it. Okay.

I thought you were going to hit me with a bunch of consumer debt. All right.

No, because it's all rolled into one. And I think I've never heard... I've been binging this, and I've never heard how you attack just one big.

Yeah. Generally, here's our parameter with HLAA. If it's over half your annual income, we say, Hey, roll it into your baby step six, which is when you pay off the mortgage. So that's when you would pay it, versus in Baby Step 2 with other consumer debt. Since you guys have no consumer debt, do you have an emergency fund? Do you have savings?

We just started that. We have some education savings for about 50 grand for the kids right now. And then just retirement fund, we have maybe a couple hundred thousand. But other than that, not really.

Do you have anything in cash? If you had an emergency today, how would you pay for it?

I already did Baby Step 1, so we probably have about 5,000 in cash. Okay.

But your next paycheck is going to be sizable. You're going to make like what, 25 grand on the next check?

Yeah, per month, my husband and I, we bring him around 25 grand a month.

Okay. How much of that could you throw into a savings account next month, for example If I wasn't putting it towards the heelock, then probably seven grand. So you guys are spending close to 20 grand a month?

I'd say our spending—kids are spending... Kids are in private school—are the interest on the heelock is about 1,800. So, yeah, like I'd say, we spend around 12 grand a month on...

The private school for all three kids?

Yes.

Man, that's a real... Your burn rate is high here. You've got a lot of expenses going on. I'm guessing we're not going to put them in public school to clean up this mess.

Well, they're almost out, so into middle school. So into like to middle school, so that's going to change and get better over the next couple of years. I didn't want to feel like I was rolling the heelok into the mortgage and kicking the can down the road and whether I should roll some of it in and then keep some of it and attack that really fast. I'm not sure.

I like them broken up. I mean, is the heelock going to have a variable rate here?

I was going to ask the same thing.

It's currently variable, but again, in June, we signed the next five-year mortgage, so it would lock in at whatever the interest rate is, which is probably- God bless the strangeness Canada.

Every five years, we reset the mortgage rates.

What's going to be the new mortgage rate when you renew in June? Because it's 3. 6 now. What's it going to go to?

It'd probably go down, so between 2. 9 and 3. 2.

Interesting. Have you done the math? If you did that, what percentage of your income would this mortgage be?

So that would move us from the 25 % to about 29 to 30 % of house expenses.

On a 30 year? Or are you doing In a 15 year?

We haven't discovered that yet. My call is tomorrow with the bank.

Okay. My guess is, well, they don't do the 30 and 15. You have a five year?

Oh, that's- And it rolls every- Oh, that's- No, you still do a 15 or 20 year, but every five years, you revisit it and you get to redo it.

Okay. How often does the rate on the HELOC variate?

It's variable. So it was high over the last couple of years. Every month? For a couple of years, but dropping now. It's every month that the interest comes out. But then just depending on what the Bank of Canada does, the interest rate goes up and down.

If there was a world where you locked this in at 2. 9 and it was 25% of your take home pay, and it fit those same parameters, it wouldn't bother me. I don't mind it being separate, though, for the idea of you really getting after it. I'm afraid that if you roll it in, you won't get after it the way you need to, and you'll kick the candy on the road.

Okay. There's maybe a point in which some of it we roll in as long as we keep that 25% into the home from our income?

Well, the rule of thumb here is you don't want your mortgage to be any more than 25% of your take home pay. After taxes, you don't have to think about insurance and investing and all that jazz. I'm just talking about after taxes, you don't want it to be more than 25% with all in, with HOA fees, insurance, all of that. Because once you get above that, it can be too much of your That's what I was looking at. At 4. 5 on 400,000, I wouldn't want to see that. I wouldn't want that on a variable rate, let me just say.

I just feel like I'm less emotionally attached to interest rates. I could give a rip at this point. I just want to see you guys plowing go through these debts. And so personally, I would keep the Heloq separate and make an aggressive goal to pay this off in, let's say, three years. It's 133 grand a year. That's 11 grand a month. Come hell or highwater, we're going to throw 11 grand a month at the Heloq. Is that something you guys could do? I love it. Okay.

Yeah, I think we could. I just needed to know. I've heard that last week it was like, if it's more than half this, you roll it in. I just wasn't sure if there was a difference.

It's not about rolling it in. It's about where you're attacking it.

Yeah, the timing of it. And so for For you guys, since you don't have a consumer debt, you're just looking at these two debts going, What do I do with these? I would just plow through. If you can do more than 11 grand a month, be my guest. I'm just throwing a random goal out there. You and your husband should sit down tonight and go, We got to clean this up. To that end, I might delay some of the kids' stuff. We got time to catch up on that. Right now, we've got this thing eating our lunch with these giant mortgages in Heloq. I would work to knock that out and then knock the mortgage out, because now you know, if we can do 403 years, well, 750, we could probably knock that out in less than six years. Okay. So think about that. In nine years, you've got the kids off to college, right? Yeah. And you have no mortgage, no Heloq. That's the future I I want you guys to start envisioning and then reverse engineer it to go, Okay, what do we got to do today, this month, to get there?

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call. That's a good question. Love hearing from our Canadian listeners. Just to know that Canada has its own problems. People are making crazy decisions all over the world. All over the world. But America goes first. We're like, You know what? We're going to show you the way with the heelock to do all the renovations and go into all the consumer debt. But the good news is they have an amazing income.

They do.

It's hard to feel bad when you're making half a million, even after taxes $300,000, quite the shovel. But you can see you just make decisions with bigger zeros on the end when it comes to debt.

Exactly. It's very relative in that way. But yeah, this is... I'm waiting for care. More money, more problems.

But here's the thing. You got to just baby steps one thing at a time. And also, what can we do to decrease our lifestyle and expenses? Because even with 25 grand, you can see how quickly it can disappear. Yeah, absolutely. When you got the cleaners, the private school, this, that, the other, the heelock, the mortgage, it just eats away at even the highest income. And so you got to get control, live on lust and you make. And if you get a raise, ignore it and just invest the difference, give more, save more. That's the key to becoming truly wealthy. And I think Carole and her husband will get there in no time. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

We hear it all the time, a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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Chase is in Knoxville up next. Chase, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you? How can we help today? Very good.

Much better than I deserve, first off. Love it. But thanks to you all for the program. So I got a two-parter. First part is I've been in Zelle Intense for a while. We're actually debt-free, home cars, everything.

Wow. Way to go.

That's awesome.

I'm a little tired at this point because I've been working 2-3 jobs and just figuring out when to put Pauls on extra income and just relax for a little while.

Yesterday.

Well, yeah. It's just, I guess, the scary part because we're single income right now. So part of me is just like, keep going the way you're going.

But you're in Baby Step 7. You have no mortgage payment, right?

Correct. But we do want to move from where we're at now. I guess that's the quick answer of now is the time to stop that.

How long did it take you to accomplish this? How long have you been in grind?

It was on and off for two years because of the child and just some complications around birth and stuff. So that's why Mama hasn't went back to work.

Okay, that's fine.

But it's been, I guess, on me for almost two years at this point. So like I said, just wanting to hit pause on some of those, and that leads me in the second part. I've got a small business on the side that I have employees that I don't know how to coach because I do a little financial coaching, and they seem to be misbehaving with all the money that I pay them, even though I gave them the position to help them get out of debt.

Personally misbehaving with the money or as a part of the company, misbehaving with the company?

No, personally misbehaving. Just buying vehicles they don't need, buying recreational vehicles, stuff like that.

How did you find these people?

Family.

Wait, they're actual kin to you? Yes. Like cousins, uncles, aunts? Who are we talking?

Parents.

You hired your parents for your small business, and they're going out and taking on debt. And you're like, Well, that wasn't the intended goal. I gave them the job. So you gave them the job, even though they really weren't qualified to help them out financially, quote unquote.

No, they're very qualified for the business. However, it's just the... They're adding small personal loans at this point to try to justify moving payments around.

But other than that, it's- How many people is this? It's your parents. Is it anybody else?

No, it's just a business that I had started. It became overwhelming for me, like I said, with the new more- No, I'm talking about the part you said about...

Okay, there's two things we're talking about. You hired your parents to work in the business. You said they're qualified. That's all good. But over here, you found out that they're spending their money in a way that you don't like. Correct? That has nothing to do with the business. That's just their personal life. But you're saying, Hey, I know that's not very wise. I'd like to be able to help them out, right?

You feel like you're enabling them by doing that.

How do I go about it of grace? I'm saying either I shut the business down and just walk away from it, or just keep it open and guide them a little bit differently.

This is my perspective. I don't think that one has to do with another. You're not enabling them because they're doing a job and they're getting paid for the job, right? It's not like you're not just giving them money because they asked for money. They're working and you're paying them wages, correct? Correct. So that's okay. Now you're talking about shutting down your business. What's that about? Because don't tell me that you're shutting down your business because your parents don't know how to spend their paycheck.

That feels odd.

No, it's two-layered. Now that, I guess, technically, we're at Baby Step Seven, and I'm so tired from the last two three years here. Okay. It's a headache, and it's not that much of my income to- It's not like the side business blew up, and you're like, I could replace my full-time job.

You're just like, I'm done with this side. It was a fun side hustle while I got out of debt, I'm done with it.

What does it bring in?

About 1100 a month.

Oh, okay.

How are you even paying your parents from that?

It's subcontracted out to them.

So But it's not like they're making four grand a month from this. They're not paying their bills. No, no. It's just- Is it a side hustle for them, too? Yeah. Okay. Then just shut it down. If you were going to put them on the streets because now they're out of a job, then I'm like, Hey, let's be a little more cautious about this. But if you had the conversation with them, said, Hey, I started this because I was trying to get out of debt. I'm done with it, emotionally, physically. I'm tired. So you guys are going to need to... If you want more side hustle money, you're going to find it elsewhere. I'm shutting down the shop.

And I also think the whole thing of them, the way they're spending their money, if they're open to maybe you telling them a little bit about Ramsey and how you figured out how to manage your money, I think that's fine. But honestly, I feel like right now, that's the least of things you need to be worried about. It sounds like you have a lot going on at home with your wife and this baby. When you called, that seemed to be the thing that was getting your goat. I think your parents is just this nuisance that you're observing over here. I think you just need to swap that away for now.

Okay.

Because the truth is, you can't control what they do with their money. Right. And unless they invite you into their life to coach them on it, then it's a moot point. It's going to just cause a resentment.

I think that's the part that gets me is I do Just like, Coach on the side. Just, I guess, freelance, whatever you want to call it.

Have you offered that to them? Say, Hey, I do coaching on the side. I know I'm your son, and it's awkward, but I'd be happy to look at your numbers. It gets very sticky. They don't want you to dig in.

And you just got to cut it loose. Yeah.

That's where I was looking for advice. When somebody doesn't want it, do I just need to walk away and just watch the train wreck happen?

No, walk away. Because for people, when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and they're not ready. So one day they might be, and you might be the teacher, and one day they might be ready, and it's somebody else, maybe from their church or a friend of theirs. So you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

Right. All right.

All you can do is live your life and hopefully do it in a way that makes makes them go, Man, what's Chase doing over there? I'm interested. Tell me more. But, man, parents, that's one of the hardest ones to tackle. Because they remember changing your diaper yesterday. They're not looking for financial advice from you. Exactly. But way to go, Chase. Baby Of Seven. That's impressive.

You said one of my favorite lines. You said, It's a moot point. Moot. It always makes me think of friends when he says, It's a moot point. A moot point. A cow's opinion.

Thank you for that. I needed a win today. You needed that. That's a casual opinion. Brennan is in Houston up next. Brennan, take us home, man. What's going on? How can we help?

Hey, how are you doing today?

Better than we deserve.

So I had a question for you. I'm in a position where I'm very blessed. You're making the money. I am. I'm 20. My base income is right around $100,000 a year pre-tax. But I am struggling to decide between staying at this job or having an opportunity to go to college for maybe a job that pays a little less, but it gives me more free time.

Free time? What does a 20-year-old need free time for? You got all the free time.

Unfortunately, no. You think I would. This job's traveling.

But do you have kids and a spouse?

I'm just saying this is the freest you're going to be. So what are you doing for work making 100,000 a 20?

So it's a traveling job. The simplest way to say it, it's basically Large-Scale HVAC. So you go from different sites.

We're contracted with Walmart right now, so we'll jump from Walmart chain to Walmart chain and make sure it runs cold for the food storage and whatnot. Got it. Okay.

It's a lot of work. It's a lot of hours, but they compensate me well on I have no bills at the moment.

Do you like the work?

I like the money. Okay.

So what do you want to go to college for? How clear are you on that?

It's relatively clear. Originally, my plan was going to be for college, but life got in a way. And I didn't feel like taking on a bunch of debt to go to college. Good. That was a big problem. I was going to be going for either business administration or construction management.

Okay. Now you can cash flow it. Is that what you're saying, that you have the money that you could pay for it now?

50/50. I have the opportunity to go to college for free, but it would have to be in California due to my father. He was in the military, so I would get my tuition covered if I went out there. And we're in a talk right now about an arrangement where I'd a certain amount for rent or not paying at all, whatever.

I mean, I don't think you're not going to regret going to college debt free and doing the thing you really want to do and exploring that because you know you're a skilled guy in the trades. And so if you can do it free, I'd go for construction management if that's the field you want to be in. Business administration, I'd want some real clear answers on what's on the other side of that. I think construction management has more upside for you if that's the field you want to be in. So go for it, dude. Just do it all debt free. You're 20, you can take those kinds of risks now. Just don't go into debt to do it. That's the only parameter here. But explore, explore. Follow your heart, my friend. This is The Ramsey Show. For way too long, I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night. But now I look forward to bedtime, and I wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade using durable, high-quality materials that actually last. My whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses.

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Hey. So I have about $90,000 in debt tied up in a truck and a camper since I travel for work. And I'm always like, I'm tired of being broke. I want to get this paid off in the next year. How do you get into that mentality of whenever it comes to payday, I don't want to do it, but whenever it's time to pay the bill, I want to get rid of this. How do you get in the mentality of...

Making it happen?

I need to get this done. Yeah, making it happen.

I think for you right now, it's just logic. I think you're seeing Okay, I have debt. Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off. Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason, right? But right now it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a real reason why and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. And a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life. So if your goal is to get married or if your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden, right? Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet.

Okay. Because I've set goals for, I want to get the debt paid off in the next year and then buy some land. But why? Why? To be financially free, so I can continue on my other financial goals of buying Buying land, building a house, and then whatever.

But also, I'm asking deeper questions because money, it can't just be for more gain. It can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt, so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more things. You got to pinpoint it to something. So when you said, Hey, I want to buy land, why is land important to you? If you said, Hey, I want to build a house, why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful. Otherwise, it's pretty surface. And a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do. And it's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was.

Yeah, you'll get there and go, Okay, I did it, but now what? And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. I think you're getting there the way you're talking. What do you make?

I make about $110,000 after taxes.

After taxes, you make $110,000? Great income. Okay. So when you say, I want to pay this off in 12 months, how are you planning on doing that?

So my checks are about $2,100 to $2,500, depending on over time and how my hours are.

Is that twice a month?

Not the week.

No, it's every week. Okay, good. I was like, Man, this math is not mathing for me. Okay. Yeah, that's great.

That's weekly. And just, I did the math and right around 1,500 bucks a week, to a point to where I have a, I'm thinking like a $10,000 safety net since I am traveling for work.

And- How much do you have saved now?

Nothing.

Okay, so you're just paycheck to paycheck spending everything you get? Yeah.

All right. Yeah, pretty much. Do they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

So they pay incentives to come out here, and then the travel expenses are on me.

Okay, what's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper.

Okay, do you need a 60,000 dollar truck to do your job?

I don't.

Okay, because that's over half of your take home pay. It's a lot of truck, and it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

Twenty.

Okay. A 20-year-old does not need a 60,000 dollar truck to do any job. Can we agree on that? Yeah. A 50 year doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally, and sell this truck and get a new to me truck for $15,000. So what is the truck worth? If you sold it private party, how much could you get for it?

Probably 55 to 60. I haven't really done the Blue Book on it.

Cool. There's some homework. And if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month. If you're underwater by five grand, could you save five grand to save your life in the next month?

Yeah.

Great. So now you can clear the title. Now we still need another truck, right? You still need that? Yeah. So you're in need to come up with another 10 grand, 15 grand to get a beater truck, is what this is going to amount to in the truck world. Yeah. Because you just need to get from A to B, right? Well, it just depends. The camper is taking you. You're just hauling the truck along with the camper?

No, it's a full behind camper, so I'm hauling the camper. Okay. I need something reliable enough to get across the country if I need to. If the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and haul it to Nevada on it.

Yeah, but they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60, right? You know the truck world. So here's the problem. That 60,000 dollar truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country, which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country. Because the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear, that thing is plummeting in value. So that's what scares me, is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now.

Yeah.

I would do some homework on that part. And man, if you can get this done in six months instead of twelve, wouldn't you want that? Yeah. I'd rather eat rice and beans for six months instead of a whole year. I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper. And the way your income is, you could save up and buy something used pretty quickly. And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. Lots of people selling used trucks out there.

Yeah, for sure.

Just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you. Some people, like Jade, it took over seven years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So for you to be able to do this in six months, you're going to blink. You won't even be able to drink yet on your 21st birthday by the time you're dead free.

Yeah.

And just know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. You got all the time in the world. You can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with. You don't have kids. There's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in.

Okay.

I'm proud of you, man. You're a very successful 20-year-old with a good head on your shoulders. We made some mistakes. The good news, anything that's vehicle-related, at least we can sell those. You're going to $100,000 in student loan debt. You can't go sell Man, I wish you could.

Nobody's interested. I would have sold mine off.

If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available.

Then it's like men in black, they do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well.

Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned. I think that I'm sorry, but who remembers specific things they learned in college? Unless you were in a medical field, like law, like something like that where you need to know some things.

Where the funny bone is located.

Couldn't tell you what happened in small group communication theory. Oh, I don't even know what that is. Exactly. There you go. As much as I don't like going into debt for vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, Hey, you could sell the truck. That's a great. You could sell the horse. Yes. Both are assets, technically.

You said it, not me.

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Micah is in South Carolina. Welcome to the show, Micah. What's going on?

Hey, Jordan, Jay. Thanks for taking my call. How are you guys?

We're doing well. What's your question today?

So I'm trying to help my mom, and she is in a really tough financial position. I've been following the baby steps for about four or five years, and I'm doing well going through it, trying to use my experience to help her. And once we got into the details, I'm at a loss because I don't know how to help her, and so I need some additional advice.

What help does she need?

What's going She makes hardly any income. She's on Social Security, she's disabled, and she has, for her, a ton of credit card debt. And she can barely make minimums. So long story short, my dad died in 2013. I grew up on the baby steps with him back when it was just radio. So I hated doing it, but I helped dad do the finances. And then when he died, mom ended up living off of credit cards for the last 12 years. Her and my brother and my sister all bought property. They sold family property. They bought new property, paid for it outright, and then mortgaged houses. I stayed out of it because I see what happens with family and money. I hear it all the time on here. Smart man. And I've seen her struggle. And I've offered to help. And my sister and her, my sister lived with her until she got married. So the finances are very intertwined. And I've offered to help, and I've offered to help, and I've offered to help. And it's always been turned down by my mom and my sister. And I said, Look, the whole powder butt syndrome, there's not really a whole lot it can do until they ask for it.

And so she is a part of these properties?

Yes. So mom owns That's a majority of the land that's now all new family property. The land itself is paid for, and she's got a mortgage on the property.

How much land? How many acres?

Collectively, I think between my brother and my mom and all of it, it's like 40 acres.

Okay. So how many people are included in this land? Is your brother, is your mom, your sister?

Yes. So my sister just got married, and the plan is for her to move back into the house to help take care of mom. She just had a baby. And so all of that is a whole complicated- They're all just living together in this commune on the land?

What's it worth? Yeah, it's that. What's all that land with the house on it worth? I'm just curious.

I don't know. As of right now, I know they bought it for like nine an acre, and so it's probably worth a lot more than that.

We're wondering, is part of it can be sold to clean up mom's debt since she's part owner?

It's a lot of acres. Could you sell off 20 of it or however much needed to clean up her debt and give her a nest egg to draw from?

I think it is. I think if I offered that as a solution, that's going to be a nonstarter.

What is their solution so that mom doesn't- As much as I know it's the right answer. Mom isn't broke the rest of her life. Right.

Well, and that's where I'm as the outsider now. I'm trying to her with what I can, but I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback. And so I tried to just go, Hey, let me help you with your finances that you have now. And it's always been turned down until she called me in tears, not being able to make minimums. And I said, I will gift you money, but I would love for you to let me help. What she said was that? She tearfully, depressively accepted. Okay.

And then what happened next?

Well, so it gave us the opportunity to actually go through the numbers and see what her income is, what her outgoing is. And it's a lot worse than I thought.

What is her income?

So she makes $1,800 a month off of Social Security disability.

Okay. Nothing else. There's nothing else coming in.

There's nothing else coming in.

No money saved, no nest egg, nothing anywhere except this land.

Correct. And is she paying the mortgage on her own right now?

So she's paying a portion of it. Mortgage is $875. She's paying $375 of it, and my sister is paying $500 of it.

Okay. Now, your sister, tell us about her, because She's living in the house with your mom. She's paying the majority of the mortgage. She has a stake in this land. What does your sister say to all this? Have you sat down with your siblings and said, Hey, here's the deal with mom. What are we going to do?

Yes.

And how does that go?

So it hasn't gone well. My sister has not made very good financial decisions, in my opinion. She's doing her own little debt consolidation thing right now that is they're letting it default, and then she's paying them to do it. And I advise against it. Sure. Trying to follow the teachings of what you all tell us. Mm-hmm. And so she's not currently living with mom. She was living with her until she got married a year and some change ago.

But she's just paying the mortgage- She just had maybe a month ago. She's paying the mortgage even though she's not staying there.

Correct. Because the plan is for her to come back. And eventually, when mom dies, it'll be her house. So again, it's all very intertwined. Got it. But so she got 1800 coming in.

Do you not think that Because part of me is thinking, Okay, if this plays out like you think it is, which is the track record is they're not doing things the way you think you should be doing them, and they're not making smart choices. At some point, this is going to implode. Do you not feel like when this implodes, that's when the sister is going to... Really, the sister is going to be left holding the bag because she's the one that's going to be living there, and she's the one that's going to want the house. And in order for her to keep the house, she's going to have to sell off some of this land.

On the And the creditors are going to come after the estate, which your sister's a part of.

Right.

And so there's no way anyone's getting out of this scot-free here. And so for people who have a lot of plans, they are really terrible at planning.

Oh, I know.

And I don't know how much you- I decided to stay out of it.

Do you get any portion of this when your mom passes?

No, I declined all of it.

Okay.

Because I know what it'll do. And I was like, I'm okay on my little half acre.

It's like inheriting a wasp's nest. You're like, No, thank you. You guys can take over that.

You might need to just step aside and let them do what they're going to do because you've said it. You've said it again, and you've said it again. You might just need to let them lay in the bed that they made.

Well, and as far as the land and all that goes, I 100 % agree. But as far as just her income and debt go, I've told her, I was like, there's got to be a way. Just her finances on her side alone, I don't know. I don't really see a way for her to do the baby steps because she can't even meet the minimum.

She's in this vicious cycle. But she could if she sold off some of this land. She's not assetless, and she's making the choice.

Do you know what I'm saying? But I'm guessing there was no written agreement here with this land of what would happen, who wants out, how would they get out, or someone going to buy her share.

I advise them that they need to have everything on paper, motorized, and none of that happens.

Yeah, I don't know She said she can force the sale of this land because she's a minority stake here. Yes, she- So I would at least look into it with an attorney to see what the options are. I would try to influence your mom to say, I want out to the siblings. I don't think you can influence the siblings at this point. I think there's already been enough of a wedge drawn there that you're not going to make any headway there. So that's the sad truth of it. But here's what I would do for your mom. Have her cover her four walls first, and if she can't make minimums on the credit cards, the credit card company can kick rocks. They're not going to get paid before that food's on the table.

That's what I told her. And so I was curious. A little additional advice in regards to that. She's barely making four walls now. Yeah.

Well, if she She's going to make the mortgage payment. Sister is going to pick up the slack, isn't she? That's right.

That's what's going to happen. Correct.

That's on her. That's what happens when you cosign. And so that's what I would be doing, is make sure mom is healthy, safe, has food, the lights are on, and I wouldn't pay the debts if you can't pay them. And next, I would move to the mortgage if she can't pay it because someone else is on the hook for that, and this is the price you pay. So I'm so sorry you're going through this, Micah. This is messy all around. I just don't see a happy ending here for anybody. The most you can do is just support her through this emotionally. Here's the deal, America. The big wireless companies are literally banking on you overpaying every single month, but not Boost Mobile. Boost flipped the script. You get unlimited talk, text, and data for just $25 a month. $25. That's it. No contracts, no fine print traps, just real savings that stay in your pocket where they belong. And if you're thinking, well, George, that sounds too good to be Here's the mic drop. They've got a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it risk-free and see how much you save. Go to boostmobil.

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Cool, cool, Cool. Today's question comes from Andre in Oklahoma. I didn't sing this time, George. Thank you. I'm 21 years old and have roughly $75,000 in cash. My vehicle and motorcycles were paid with cash as well as everything else. My question is, if I was looking to be a risky investor, where are my best options?

What? That took a wild turn.

He's ready to get crazy. Did I read that right?

I don't even know if this is a real question, but I'll treat it as such.

So he wants to invest the 75,000 in some risky behavior, some risky business?

I'm just confused because a 21-year-old must have worked their tail off to get 75,000 in cash unless it was inherited. And so he's worked hard to make sure everything was paid in cash, avoid debt, and now he's wanting to take on risk somehow to be a quote, risk investor. So my first question is, why? What is your actual goal? Do you want a million dollars by 25? Well, then what's behind that? I want to get to the root of this because I think it's just young people going, Well, I got to make a lot of money now.

Interesting. Maybe Maybe he's just asking for a friend and he's trying to...

Well, you asked the wrong people. I don't do risky investing.

I mean, crypto? That would be very dumb.

Yeah, I guess if you wanted... If I was not me and I said, I've got 50 $50,000. I want to go throw at something. I'd probably just put it all on black on crypto and hope for the best. Otherwise, just go to Vegas. Go sports bet on a parlay or something.

Yeah, I'd day trade it and see if I could make a spread if I wanted to do the riskiest.

I hope that a company's single stock does really well.

Single stock, yeah.

Ai pharmaceutical company or something.

Oh, you could buy a... Is it enough? No, I was going to say he could buy a- Half a Bitcoin?

I don't know what the kids are doing these days.

A cyber truck since those are dropping like rocks.

That is definitely not an investment.

A lot of people think cars are an investment. Can I just say, when somebody buys a brand new car and they say, Yeah, it was a solid investment, I'm like, You're an idiot. Respectfully, that's the dumbest thing you could ever say, that a new car is a solid investment. Moving on.

Well, I've got a buddy of mine, and he bought a Ford GT, and it was $340,000. But he's like, Well, it paid off because now it's worth $400,000.

Certain cars.

But he also has to keep it pristine in storage. Can't drive it, can't enjoy it, can't use it. I'm like, Dude, just buy some art if you want to just put something on the wall to enjoy. For real, for real. If you want to be an investor, I don't think risk should be a major factor you're looking for. So I would personally just park in an index fund if you want some flexibility with this money that tracks the S&P 500. I would max out retirement accounts, and I would invest in yourself. At 21, you're doing this well, maybe start a business. That would probably be the best, quote, unquote, risky investment I would make is all cash. Start a business based on something you're really passionate about that you know a lot about that you think you'd be good at.

I got to believe there was a typo here, and my guy just forgot one word.

I think where he's coming from is because he's so young, he feels like he can invest in something high risk, high reward, and has the time to make up for it. Basically, if he lost it all, he'd be like, Okay, well, I'm 22 now with less money. I'll be okay. I'm not saying it's good. I just mean, I think that's where he's coming from. I think this question came from producer James, and he secretly wants to know. Is this you?

Is this you asking for a friend James?

You know I go by Andre in the street. James is an old man. He's not looking for a risk at this point. He's just looking for some peace and quiet. I love that. Great question, Andre. But when you say risky It's just like all of my red flags go up at once. Because I want you to build wealth and keep it. I'm a man of faith. I love this verse from Proverbs 13, Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it. That's the principle I live by when it comes to wealth building. I'm trusting Solomon over some dude on TikTok. I think the Bible has some great wisdom in that. So read Proverbs and then get back to us, Andre. Appreciate the question. All right, let's get to the phones. Pastor George has put the pulpit down. Here we go.

Also, James is now Andre in my mind from henceforth forever.

So good. Aaron is in Denver up next. Aaron, how can we help today?

Hi. I'm making my call, but We're trying to do a essentially career change for my husband. Okay. And he's been 20 years. We don't get a pension, unfortunately, but he's done 20 years. He's ready to switch careers. But this career search is going to be a huge hit to our finances as we build up back some more experience in that new career.

What's he doing now?

So we're trying to find out. So he's in law enforcement right now.

Okay. What's he want to do?

He wants to fly helicopters.

Okay. And what does that process look like?

He's already gone through all the certifications. He's actually teaching and working part-time right now. So we've already gone through the schooling and all the things he needs for that.

What What's the financial difference? So what's he making now as a cop, and what would he be doing helicopters full-time?

So that's the thing. So as a cop, he's making 140 before taxes.

Okay.

But flying, he'll be essentially having that. Having that? Until he can build up... Yeah, having. Like, Oh, yeah.

Do you guys have any debt right now?

Just our house and child support.

Okay. Could you live off of $70,000 today?

Yes.

There was a lot of hesitation there.

Did you actually run the budget out?

I did. So I looked at, I followed the budget to save up because we have, I have about four months saved up for where we're at right now to cover at least our, our child's before and house and utilities. I have that saved up for four months.

When will the 70K go up, or is that just what a helicopter pilot makes? Will it ever go up to 140?

It may. It depends on your hours. Early hours, because he has less than 300 hours right now. And to really start making, have a decent job, EMS, oil rigs, stuff like that, that's up After a thousand hours, that's like 1,200 hours. So he's got a good way to go before he can start making comparable money to what we're making now.

So I'm seeing on my screen here stuff about taking out heat locks and pulling money out of retirement. Where does that come into play? Yes.

So we're looking at... Because again, right now, he's not really making money. Right now, he's making $25 an hour. And then when he makes, after a little while, he makes $30 an hour. And then after 500 hours, he can make $40 an hour.

How quickly does that happen?

That depends on how many people want to fly, so it's contract work.

Got it. So it's inconsistent. And this is on top of his full-time law enforcement job? This is on the side, night's, weekends? Yes. Okay.

Well, yeah. So we're So we're looking at quitting next year so he can focus full-time on flying.

Okay.

And building those hours quickly. So that's why we're looking at the money, having that extra money. We're pulling the retirement. It'd be my retirement. So he has his retirement, and I have mine from when I quit two years ago to be a stay at home mom.

I would not pull from your retirement to do this.

Okay.

I would. If anything, how much have you calculated that you need as a cushion to do this?

So we're looking at the $70,000 to cover our debts. Okay. Our basics. So you need $70,000 saved in order to make this transition the way you feel like you need to? Yeah, for a year. That'll cover us for the year.

Okay. So how quickly on $140,000 with no debt could you save up that money? You already have four months of emergency fund, which is great. How long would it take you to do something like that? Because I feel like that's what's going to inform this. You can't go into debt over this because if you go in... Let me tell you, if you pull out your retirement for this and for some reason it goes south or he doesn't make the money as quickly as you want to, you are going to be filled with resentment. He's going to be filled with guilt and shame and regret. And this is not going to be a good deal.

You're unplugging all of that growth. You're basically borrowing it 35 % with all the penalties and fees. The heelock is going to put your house at risk and add more pressure to all of this. I would not do this. Nothing's on fire. I would wait a year, save up the 70,000, live off 70, and save up the other 70, and then make the move a year from now as he gets more hours on the side. I just wouldn't rush this. It's going to add way too pressure and stress to your life right now.

And you'll know you can live on the 70.

Exactly. It's a good test run for 12 months. Hey, guys, if you're already shopping at Aldi, way to maximize your grocery budget. Good for you. Now, here's how to level up your savings. Make Aldi your first stop every week. From fresh organic produce to grass-fed beef to marinated chicken that's ready to cook to high-quality dairy products, you'll be able to snag everything you need without the hassle and nonsense. Just legit quality and low prices. And families like yours can save up to $4,000 a year just by shopping at Aldi. And that's not a hack, it's just a smarter habit. So stop overpaying, make Aldi your first stop for groceries, and watch the savings stack up. Find a store near you at Aldi. Us. That's ALDI. Us. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Good news, Jade. I know you've been waiting for this. How Have I? The Christmas Giveaway. Oh, yes.

I've been waiting.

And not only is it a Christmas Giveaway, it's a Christmas Cash Giveaway, because we like to say cash is king around here. Each week, someone's going to win 500 bucks, and one grand prize winner will win $5,000. And you can enter every day from now until December 20th. You can enter daily to increase your chances to win. Just go to ramsey solutions. Com/giveaway right now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. We're not going to be mad if you do purchase something, but you don't have to purchase something to be a part of the giveaway.

I want to interview the people that win this, and I want to know what they do with the money.

I remember I was on the team for a long time now, so I've had a lot of jobs here. And one of my jobs was email marketing. And so we got to email the person.

Really? And tell them that they won?

Yeah. I would send an email like, Here's the winners for the week, and all that. And so it was a lot of fun to get to be a part of the behind the scenes. That is fun. I would hear my coworker call the person to let them know that they've won. It was a game show. It was so fun.

Put me on that.

Real people win this thing, guys. We actually mean it. So there you go. Go enter. Jane is in Scranton, Pennsylvania, up next. Welcome to the show, Jane. How can we help?

Well, thanks for having me on. Sure. I'm calling for some advice on how to handle my 29-year-old son, who has moved back home to follow the Baby Steps Millionaire program. He wants to pay off all of his private student loan debt. So he's moved back home. We're glad to have him. I'm nearing retirement My husband's been retired a long time. We're in decent shape financially, no debt at all. But expenses are hard. The cost of maintaining a home has increased, the cost of utilities, The cost of food, property taxes. So our budget gets stressed a little bit from time to time, especially times of the year like this when the heat's on.

Does it cost more to heat the house with him in it?

Well, not necessarily, but the cost of food goes up and it's him keeping the lights on where that part of the house might have normally been dark.

Sure. The water, the utilities will bump up a bit. He'll be eating your food, so your food bill is going to go up.

Why don't you tell him he needs to contribute a little something, something.

I did.

So his response was, Well, I asked him if he would take on one bill.

I said, Just one bill, you can pick out whatever one you want. So I showed him my We have your budget app, so I showed him my every dollar budget, and I said, Pick one. And his response was, Well, let me look at all of your bills so that I can see how you can cut costs so I don't have to do this.

Let me tell you something.

Wow. That is maniacal. How about this? I agree. You say, You know what? Forget that plan. You're going to pay us $300 a month if you want to live here.

Or you can just go live somewhere else. That sounds good to me. Man.

But- Is he working full-time?

Oh, he has a very good job. He's a government employee with a GS 13-level job. Oh, my gosh.

What does he make?

Well over $100,000 a year. Oh, my. Right now, he's in the military. He's a high-ranking officer, and he's making all of his money tax-free because it's an active duty to pull you.

And he won't pay one bill?

How much debt does he have?

He doesn't want to.

I'm sorry? How much debt does he have?

He has no debt other than his student loan.

Okay, well, that's debt.

So he just wanted to invest?

No, no. He has debt. You said he has no debt except for all these- Other than his student loans. Okay. Yeah, that's debt. Just his student loan debt. If it ends with loan, it's debt. How much? So how much debt?

So I think he had well over 100,000. He's down to about 35,000.

Okay. He moved back in to pay off 35 grand, making over 100? This feels crazy.

This is my son.

What was he doing before?

But you said yes to this.

Was he renting before on his own or what?

He was renting before on his own. Prior to that, he was engaged to a wonderful woman, and he was living with her. They were supposed to get married in a couple of months, and she just got so, she got so frustrated with him being so cheap that she broke off the engagement and threw him out.

Okay, there you have it. Oh, my goodness. And there you have it. So this is a character trait of he was cheap with a girlfriend. Possibly, one of the reasons they were living together was so he could lower his expensesenses. Correct. Because then, right after that, he turns around and moves in with you. Do you know what I would do if I were in your shoes? I'd love to know. I would say he can't live here. I'd say, I love you, but you can't live here. You don't need to live with me to pay off $35,000 of debt. You've got plenty of income in order to do that. And I see this as a pattern, Sir, Son, you need to move out, and you need to learn to open up the purse strings.

He is not struggling financially. Now, if this guy had just gone through a really tough a divorce, had nowhere to go, and he was really struggling financially, I'd say, Hey, let's give him a bit of a hammock for six months to get him on his feet. This man doesn't need that.

I agree.

And so have you had that conversation? And I appreciate your help.

No, we haven't had any a hard conversation like that because he has just recently moved in. We're talking just a couple of weeks.

Okay. What's your husband say? I was trying to set the ground.

My husband is elderly. He's 25 years, my senior. And at his age, he's just glad to have him back in the house.

I see.

Yeah, you got to be careful. I would give a time. He's already in the house, so I would just create a timeline and say, Listen, I know how much you make. I know you can put this much toward the debt. If you do it this way, here's the rules. If you can pay this off in, I don't know, six months, let's say, is that possible? Probably, yes. That's 5,800 a month. Could he do that living at home with no expenses?

Absolutely, he can.

See, George is- I'm just throwing napkin math out there, and she said, Absolutely, he can, because she knows how much he makes. Yes, but I'm like, The boy must go. Yeah, I know. I agree.

But he's literally made his bed, and they're laying in it.

And so- Well, I would do that if my husband wasn't so thrilled to have him home.

Here's what I think is going to happen.

Yeah, but he can come over every night for dinner. You know what I'm saying? This is true. You know? Because what I What I see happening, because he loves saving money. He wants to save a buck. And what I see happening is he pays off the debt, then the next goal comes, Well, I want to save up X amount of dollars.

Just wait till I have enough for a down payment.

And the goalpost is going to keep moving. And truly, he's 29.

That's why I say, as soon as you have this debt paid off, you're gone, and that's going to be six months from now. And we're going to have a meeting every month, and you're going to show us the debt balance if you're going to be living here.

Do you think he'd do that?

He wouldn't. And I so appreciate I appreciate this advice because I know he's listening. Oh, good. Oh, man.

He's going to hear a first hand from you because he never messaged himself. Let me send him a message. Sir, if you're listening, I think that you need to move out. I think that you need to learn how to handle your expenses. It's okay. It costs money to live. As an adult, it costs money to adult. That's rent, that's a mortgage, that's paying for your own life. And at the very least, if you are going to live in your mama's house, you need to pay for the electricity that you use and the food that you eat at 29 years old. All right, mama, I set it for you.

Mom's going to apply for him to be on extreme cheap skates. They're just going to follow him around the house with the camera, watching him mooch off of you guys and his elderly dad to save a buck while he makes six figures as a high-ranking official in the military. Also, thank him for his service. Yes. Thank you for your service. All jokes aside, he sounds like a great young man, but he's just too cheap for his own good.

He can't help it.

He already lost a great woman over this. That's true. You could have had a It's really a sweet relationship with this woman if it all panned out.

Well, if he moves out, maybe he can get her back.

Now, that would be a love story for the ages. It would be a love story.

One never knows.

He's going to go around his 25 cent rings to try to propose. That's probably she saw that writing on the wall and said, No, thank you. That's not good. Goodness gracious. What an interesting conundrum. I'm trying to really put myself on her shoes. I couldn't. Now, here's the thing. This is where I'm a softy. If it was my daughter, I think I'd treat it differently.

At 29. But here's what got me when she said, Pick a bill to pay. And he's like, Instead of me paying the bill, let me lower your expenses and crunch your budget and make you... That got me. Yeah.

The other thing that I've seen that can work decently is if you say, Hey, you're going to pay 500 bucks a month to live here. Mom and dad set that money aside in a savings account and give it back to him when he moves out as a surprise. That's a nice gesture if you don't need the money. But truthfully, they were saying it's already a little bit tight. Yeah. Yeah. They could use the extra money if he's, mooching off the house and racking up the utility bills. I think that's fair.

It's a failure to launch for me. It's not cool. It's a failure to launch. He has the money.

And he has the discipline. He does. I mean, if you're a high-ranking official, you don't get there by being lackadaisical. So, man, that's a tough one. But what a sweet woman. I get it. She's just too sweet for her own good, and he's too cheap for his own good. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your at 888-825-5225. Joey's up next in Orlando, Florida. Joey, what's going on?

Hey, how are you?

Doing great. What's your question? Thank you for having me.

About two and a half years ago, we bought a house and renovated this house, knowing it would be a really solid investment.

I knew that if we got too tight, it's something we could sell and end up making some money on.

We bought the house and got into it. What we didn't expect was to fall in love with our neighbors and our community. Now we've got four kids, and we've built this community around us that the kids can roam freely. Really, it's become a dream scenario in that way, but we're living a little tighter than we'd like to. So the question comes down to, should we be willing to sacrifice the community and take the profit from the house and move that into something where we have a little bit more financial peace? Or do we stick it out and see if we can grow our resources to a point where it makes sense to continue living in this scenario?

Wow. What's your mortgage every month?

It ends up being about 5,700.

And how much do you bring home after taxes?

Well, it varies because the way my wife, where my wife owns some commercial real estate, and I'm in the live production business. So at times we get paid. We do it more quarterly than monthly.

If you were to take the average across the year, what would it be monthly?

Monthly ends up being probably around $12,000 a month.

So, yeah, you're feeling it?

You're right. You're starting to climb up to almost half of your take home pay being eaten up by the mortgage. Do you guys have any other debt?

No. We have a car payment and one car payment, and that's it.

Okay. Has the mortgage always been this large, or did you roll- It has not.

No, we actually our old mortgage. For this house, yes, it has always been this much.

How long have you been there? You've been managing almost half of your take home pay going to this for how long?

About two and a half years.

Okay.

Wow. What's left on the balance of the mortgage?

A lot.

Like a million? I'm trying to figure out what causes a $6,000 mortgage payment.

It's about 500, and I think our mortgage is about 575. We still go somewhere around 570 because we've been staying down interest. Okay. And what's the house That's worth? It's worth about 1. 4 currently.

Nice. So you got a good amount of equity in there, which is awesome. Is there any opportunity for your income to grow sustainably, till closer to 20 grand?

Yeah, I just started this job last January. And in my first year, I doubled my salary from the previous year. And there's potential for that to grow again in the coming years.

So wait a minute. At one point, this mortgage was even higher if you just now doubled your salary?

No. So what we have done is the community we live in has a lot of garage apartments that allow us to be able to take some of that income So we actually rented out our garage apartment for the last two years. That brought in around $1,500 a month on top of that.

Understood. On top of that. On top of the 12 or so that you're bringing in?

On top of the 12. Correct.

Okay. Yeah, I think I would feel good about this if we can make sure that both of our incomes are going up, and over the next year, there's a trajectory to get to that 20-ish mark? Because this mortgage, it's only going to go up at this point because of property taxes and insurance increasing.

Correct.

So the only thing you could do to lower the payment long term is refinance or do a recast. If you have a lump sum payment you make on that principle, you could recast it, and then it'll just lower that monthly payment while keeping the same balance in term. Those are the only two options you have other than selling, downsizing. Are there cheaper homes in the same neighborhood that would allow you to keep the community? Not at the same size, no. You got four kids.

Yeah. You have no savings to speak of anywhere.

I have some, but not much. We would certainly like to build more margin in those areas. We're at the point where we're just now starting to get a little bit into that margin. How old are you? But to a point, if our air conditioner goes wrong, it's a bad thing.

I am 39 years old.

Thirty-nine. And there's nothing in retirement, hardly?

No. No retirement to speak of.

I was in ministry for 20 years and was barely making it for- I'm worried.

I'm going to tell you my worrying It's probably your worry, too. I'm worried that if you hang on to this too long, you're going to miss out on valuable years of investing because it's going to take some time to get this down. Because even to George's point, say you start going on a positive trajectory for the next year, even if you get it down to 40 %, it's still going to be taking away from your ability to do that. That's really 25 % is where you want to be. And even at 30, it's like, you can do it, but I'd love for you to get it a little lower, right? So I'm a little nervous about that. I'm a little nervous, I'm not going to lie.

I'm at the point where I know the smartest move financially would be to sell and take that money and to invest and start building that. But the part that's hard is the investment into my children, into my family, into their lifestyle.

Yeah, that's very tough. I feel you on that because I have young kids and I think about the same thing sometimes. Part of that, though, I will say, when you have a great community, part of that is you as well, because that means that you're the type of person who, when you see other people, you speak, you remember people's names, you make an effort. So part of that's on you.

Yeah, the fallacy is if we moved anywhere else, we would never have a great community. And so you have to take that part off the table because it's justifying staying in a bad situation. Because Because the overall fear, and you feel this, too, is the dream home turns into a nightmare retirement. And you can't accomplish any financial goals, but we can just survive in the house for the time being. And your payroll is not going down anytime soon. You got four younger kids.

How old are they?

From one year to 11 years.

And the 11-year-old, before you know it, they're going to be looking at college. So these are the things that are knocking on your door in the next six years or so.

I hate to tell people to sell their house. I would give it a timeline, and I would you and your wife sit down together and start to map out a plan and bust our butts to figure out what we can do career-wise. If we want to keep this lifestyle up, here's what it's going to take income-wise. And that means taking home 20 grand, and the mortgage is now 5,000 or 6,000 of that. If you can get to that point in the next year, and that might mean, Hey, I got to start my own business here, or you're going to have to go do this on the side to try to figure this out and see if it's sustainable. If after a year, you're still in the same shape, I would go, All right, I'm 40 now. We tried. We're going to have to make a hard call to move neighborhoods and downsize and take our probably 700 something thousand in net proceeds and roll that into another house, either with cash or take on a very small mortgage so that you guys can breathe. Because making 12, your mortgage should be closer to like 3,000, 4,000 max versus 6,000.

And so these are the hard choices to make, but You're very thoughtful about this, and this is a conversation for you and your wife to decide the timeline. We can't do it for you. Nothing's on fire, but you can see the fire in the distance. That's the fear here, Joey. We're rooting for you, man. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution.

To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money.

You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment.

Go to ramsey solutions. Com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramsey solutions. Com/start.

All right, let's talk real estate, Jade, shall we? It's on a lot of people's minds right now.

Indeed it is. Indeed it is.

Buying or selling a home is a big deal, and there's a lot of click bait headlines out there, conflicting data, fear mongering, and it's hard to know what's really happening in the market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000. A typical season shift as we head into the fall. And buyers have more options in negotiating power and sellers face a little more competition. Mortgage rates dip slightly to five and a half % in September, giving some buyers breathing room. And since rates are unpredictable, do not try to time the market. Just buy when you're financially ready, not when rates drop or when you hope they drop. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseysolutions. Com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or a YouTube. Jessica is in New York City up next. Welcome to the show, Jessica.

Hello. Five years ago, my father gave me $60,000 a down payment on a house, and he wrote a gift letter so that I believe legally I don't have to pay back that 60,000. But verbally, he asked me to either pay it back over the years or have it taken out of my inheritance. And every year, my father gives a gift to his children, to his four children in cash. And we can either take the cash or have it given back as part of loan repayments because we all use my dad as a bank in some way or another. And This year, my father very generously wants to give us $10,000, which is a huge amount. And he wrote me an email saying, I could take the $10,000 in cash, but he really wants me to start paying back the loan with interest. It's now $71,000 I didn't know there was interest. That's interesting. I know. So wait.

He gives $10,000 every year, but that part is the gift.

No, no. It could be a thousand It's like his Christmas present. Got you.

It could be a thousand dollars. It could be two.

But this year, he decides each year. This year, it's a big one. It's $10,000. And he's saying he's going to withhold that because you haven't paid back his loan/gift plus interest.

Oh, interesting. I could take the cash if I want, but he encourages me to start repaying the loan.

Did you know the loan had interest?

No.

Is this written anywhere? This was just a verbal- Verbal. Hey, you owe. And he expects that to hold up?

Yes.

Goodness, Christ. This whole thing just feels toxic. Is your dad controlling?

Not really. He shows love, I would say, by giving money. That's his connection to his children.

But he gives it, and then he's going to- And why was this a gift? Is he going to come back around and say, Hey, I gave you $10,000 for Christmas. I would expect that back at some point.

Yeah. Why was the $60,000 suddenly a loan when everything else is a gift? Is that him trying to build some responsibility into you? What's the meaning of that?

I'm not sure. I know he's done it for all of his other children. He helps them buy houses, but I don't know the details of their financial situations, like how much he gave to each of them and who's paid it back and who hasn't. I got it.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be trying to get out of this loan as fast as possible because I don't like the way it feels.

What'd you use the 60 grand on?

A down payment for a house.

Okay. And you're living in that house now?

Yes.

Is it just you or are you married?

I just got married a few months ago.

Okay. What's your husband saying about this? Does he know?

He does know. I did talk about it with him, and he said, Don't put it in writing. Don't respond to the email saying that I acknowledge that there is a loan, and just to wait it out and see what happens in inheritance whenever that might be. Who knows if it's five 10 years, 30 years.

Yeah, but in the meantime, your relationship with your father is destroyed.

And apparently, interest is accruing.

Yeah, I did the math for you. It's about 3. 4% compound interest.

Did he give you the option for it to be taken out of your inheritance? Did he give you that option?

Not in this recent email. That's just what I remember him saying five years ago.

I'd do that. I'd say, Yeah, dad, if you want to take it out of my inheritance, that's And I'd get that in writing so that you're free and clear, because that's money that you don't have yet. It's not affecting your life today. So, yeah, I'd do that.

Can you afford to pay him back the 60 grand in a reasonable amount of time?

No. If he keeps giving me $10,000 a year, I could keep telling him, Sure, put it back towards the loan, and it would be paid back in.

That's what I was going to say. Will he just apply the $10,000, say, Hey, dad, just take that off my loan balance, which gets me to $61,000 back to square one. He would do that?

Yes, I could do that.

It just feels so silly. That's going to take seven years.

Yes.

While interest accrues, it'll just keep climbing back up and then get knocked back down a little bit.

Ask him if he'll take it out of the inheritance.

Can you call him instead of emailing a transactional bank? Just the whole thing feels odd to me.

It's really more of a moral question. It's why I called because I wasn't sure how to handle the and really if I should even try to pay it back, I can't pay back a loan at all.

If it was a loan and you knew it was a loan, you have to pay it back. Now, the interest part, I don't really like that. He added that and you didn't know about it. But I do think that if he has said, I can just take it out of your inheritance. I'd go that route. I just want it in writing so that this is over and done. The transactional part, I hate that it's like that, but we're here now, so you may as well cover your butt and get the fact that the whole loan is going to be free and clear, covered in your inheritance.

Well, it's going to be hilarious. As part of the inheritance, he's going to go, Well, it's now $150,000 balance on this fake loan. So that's how much I'm going to take out of your inheritance.

That is what I worry about. I'd want it at the present value, not at a later value.

At this point, I would say, Hey, dad, we never did this in writing. We should have. That's both of our bad. We need something in writing to make this really clear of what your expectations are because I'm frustrated because you didn't explain any of this to me, and I owe 11,000 $1,000 more to bank of dad while he's trying to gift me other money. This whole thing is strange. And I don't know if you can see it because of your relationship with him, but there's just something odd about all of this.

I don't think I'd take any more money.

Okay.

And this is why we tell people, don't loan your family money ever. If you want to gift it, gift it and do it joyfully and don't expect it back. But this whole, it's a gift as far as the IRS is concerned, but it's a loan secretly and verbally. You can see how messy this stuff can Yes, I appreciate that. Morally, do I think you're a bad person if you don't pay it back and it gets taken out of the inheritance? No. But in the meantime, again, the relationship with your dad is gone as far as you know it, if this isn't taken care of. Because this is looming in his mind every Thanksgiving, every Christmas, when he's about to gift you more money, he's going, Yeah, but should I? She owes me money and hasn't paid me a dime back. So either get on a payment plan or decide it's going to be part of the inheritance at the current rate and just move on your life. But I don't think we can stay at this status quo that we're in. Oh, man, that hurts my heart, Jade. It's too much. Because I'm trying to picture myself in that dad's shoes giving or loaning my daughter, my grand daughter, money.

I would hate for a relationship. It's too much power. It's power play. Yeah, it just makes you the lender and the debtor. I just think that makes an awkward relationship for someone that you raise that you love. If you love them and you want this to be a gift, let it be a gift. If you're not comfortable with that, don't loan the money. Just say, Hey, wish I could help. I can't. Right. I agree. Don't cosign. Don't do any of that. But the middle ground is where things get messy. When you want to help, but it's alone.

Yeah. It's just Give people money, especially your family. I'm thinking about my kids right now and I'm thinking, yeah, if the time came and Sam and I wanted to help them, we would just help them. And it almost feels like anything else is an attempt to try control them from beyond. That's what I think.

There's something more to this, and we couldn't pinpoint it.

I'm going to teach them responsibility, so I'm going to...

But I just wonder if he likes having a little bit of control because once kids are adults, they're out of your control. Yeah.

So you have to do things to pull the roll back in. Get the spidey web.

Cast your spidey web on them so you have a little bit of connection there. Even if it's not a true, honest, authentic connection, it's still something that ties me to them that they can't get away from.

Sometimes parents do that, though. It's so subconscious. They don't realize that that's the why behind what they're doing. Got to be careful. Yeah.

I just hope my kids know I love them more than, well, they show their love through money, giving or loaning. I want them to know that's the last thing on the list. That's good, George. That's just one man's take as a dad of a young daughter. Take it with a grain of salt.

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Joshua is in Greenville, South Carolina, up next. What's going on, Joshua?

Hey, Jay. Hey, George.

How are you? Doing great. Thanks for answering my call. Yeah. What's going on with you today?

I am struggling with... Got offered my dream, basically dream law enforcement job. I used to be in law enforcement. Long story short, about a year and a half ago, I made an officer safety mistake. I I'm searching an individual, and I missed a firearms and brought him into the jail when I was arresting him. So they let me go for failing to conduct a proper search. So So a guy that I used to work with, he now works at a different law enforcement department and offered me a traffic position, like their traffic unit, basically just stopping cars all When I got fired, I became a truck driver because my whole family is in the trucking industry, so I just figured that's the best thing to do, was just go get my CDL and start driving trucks. But it is a significant pay cut. My wife doesn't really want me to go into law enforcement, go back into law enforcement, but I really feel like that's my calling. So I'm just trying to figure out how can I have that conversation with her that this is where I feel God's calling me to be.

So this is not financial at the core. This is safety at the core. Is that what it is for your wife?

What's the root of her not wanting to do this?

I think it's more so safety as far as I may get to work and not come home.

Okay. Is this position safer than your previous law enforcement position, or it's about the same?

No, it's about the same.

Or is it worse? The difference is you're in the road, and that puts you... It's a little more hazardous in that regard. Yeah. But I mean, trucking isn't the safest job out there either.

Yeah. It's not the healthiest either.

No. I also... I haul gasoline, so that's- That's an extra layer of danger.

A super flammable... Yeah. Yeah, okay.

I will say so. I stay away from those trucks when I'm on the road.

If you give her facts and figures, like, Hey, this is how many trucking accidents and injuries and death throughout per year versus traffic Department officers. Could you convince her of that, or is it more just emotional at this point?

I think it's more so emotional, but also it is a significant pay cut. I get VA disability. I get 4,300 a month from the VA for my military service. And then I make before I have four taxes, about 1,500 a week from the trucking. But I would be going down to about 55 or 60,000 a year if I were to leave truck driving and go into law enforcement. It would equate to about a $20,000 to $25,000 a year pay cut.

Okay. My math was given me $10,000 or $15,000 pay cut. Because you're making $6,000 a month now, which is $72, and you're saying you'd make $55,000 to $60,000.

Right. But then also, well, I guess, yeah, okay, I guess I did my math wrong.

I just want to make sure. It's not to point out you're wrong. It's more to say, let's get the facts on the table. If we're going to talk to Wife about this and go, okay, here's what this amounts to. We're going to have a thousand less per month gross coming in. Now, can we survive off of my 4,300 plus the other 4,000? Should be able to. I hope so. And that's where I think it would help to actually make a budget based on what you would be making and then go, Okay, how does this life feel? Does it feel tight? Can we still accomplish our goals? Can we still retire with dignity? Then we can talk about the safety implications of the new role and how she feels about that. But do you think it's something where over time, she could change her mind about this if you laid out the facts and figures?

I think so.

Is she working as well outside the home?

No, she's a stay at home mom.

Okay. Does that add to this, of her the safety gland, security gland flaring up here, when you're the single income?

I guess if, yeah.

You have life insurance?

I actually just got a quote the other day through Xander, but we have not actually gotten the life insurance yet.

Good. I would do that ASAP, and don't delay on that. Because here's the thing, the more I know that my family is protected, the better I feel about whatever is going to happen. We're betting on the worst case scenario. I hope you live a long, full life with no injuries or accidents. But the truth is, we just don't know what life is going to throw at us, no matter what career you're in. The more you can show her that you're being proactive, I think the better she'll feel about this. It may take a little bit of time. One month in is scary. Four months into this conversation, maybe she'll be warming up to it. I don't know. Okay. But this is going to be a constant conversation in the house, and she's probably going to get sick of it.

Yeah. My take on it is they both... I mean, obviously, law enforcement has a level of danger. You did that for how long? Your other job does, too.

Yeah. Both jobs are dangerous. So it's not like you're choosing one that's a desk job and one that's risking your life. So that's where I think logic would help. But that's where I was trying to get to the bottom of where your wife is at on this. Because the pay cut doesn't concern me that much.

Yeah, it's not much of a- Because you have your 4,300, which is stable, and you're not cutting the income in half. How much is your mortgage?

1,700 a month.

Yeah, you'll be all right.

That's reasonable. And do you guys have any debt?

We're actually wearing a baby set, too. So I have two credit cards that are $1,000 each and a $20,000 truck, and that's Okay, here would be my stipulation.

If you talked to her and said, Hey, I'm not going to make any moves until we're completely debt free with a fully funded emergency fund and life insurance in place, and I'm going to make sure to work my butt off to get her income back up. Would that change the conversation with her?

That probably would.

Or, Hey, I'm willing to sell my truck to get us to a better place financially to make this move. Would that light her up to go, Oh, my goodness, who is this person?

Probably.

I would try all of the above to show her how serious you are about this, how passionate you are about this. I think over time, if you make all of these moves happen, you lay it all on the table, you actually act the part and do all the work. Like I mentioned, I think it'll change the way she sees this. Even then, there may always just be a part of her that doesn't like that you did this. But at the end of the day, it's either you being miserable in a trucking job and still have some safety issues, or you being really happy in this new back to what you feel called to do.

Yeah, because there's part of this where I'm thinking, you've been doing this job. You were law enforcement the whole time for the most part that you've been together. It's not like you made this radical change into this crazy field that she had no idea you were headed towards. So that's the only reason. I think it's okay.

Man, that is tough. I'm just picturing you driving around with gasoline in the back, and she's like, Well, that feels a whole lot safer- No, that doesn't feel good to me. Than you standing outside of a church directing traffic around a While they're doing construction.

Making traffic stops, that's... I mean, you got to pull people over. You don't know who's in that car. That window goes down.

That's the question. Is he doing traffic stops? Is it more... I just see them out there on Sundays for construction jobs. I think that's like... Is Or accidents. They might be out there for an accident. That can be scary. There's definitely some safety concerns there, but I just feel like it's not apples to apples, and neither are safe. So let's at least be realistic about what the options are.

He's living life on the edge. He likes it there.

He's a risk taker. He wants to be out there in the action.

Yes, he does. Somebody needs to do it.

But the other part is in the truck world, it just does feel like it's hard to be healthy. It's hard to live a long, full life and be physically healthy.

You're going into Wawa, you're sleeping in the cab, you're eating snacks, Mountain Dew.

It feels like your quality of life, it's hard to keep that high while being in the trucking world.

You'd probably have to work very hard to make sure you're getting the exercise you need, moving your body, eating healthy, sleeping well. It's a lot.

Man, both tough jobs. I don't know. If you asked me to pick one, I don't know. I probably would choose. I don't like being... Just driving that thing would freak me out.

I think I'd choose lawn. Oh, boy.

That's a hard one. I could see you pulling me over, and I'd try to break you to see if I can get out of a ticket, and you would not be having it today. Nope.

I'd have my notepad.

State Trooper, Warshaw.

Sir, did you know you were speeding?

Oh, man. We need to make a skit about that.

That's good. Your license is expired.

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Our scripture of James 1: 5. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him. Jim Collins said, Bad decisions made with good intentions are still bad decisions.

We get that all the time on the show here. A lot of good intentions. You had the right idea in mind, just did it the wrong way.

Well, I thought they needed a cosigner. I thought I should cosign to help them out. It's a bad decision with good intentions. It's a bad decision. Still bad. Rachel is in Minneapolis up next. What's going on, Rachel? How can we help today?

Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Hey. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. I am 29 years old and single. I was living with a roommate back in June, but I moved back home with my mom to help her out with the mortgage. She's having trouble paying it. She's 62. She doesn't have any retirement. She actually had to, well, didn't have to. Catch my verbiage there. She liquidated I did it back when my parents were married because they were in a bunch of debt, and the divorce was really hard on her. This was like 15 years ago. But I'm on baby step, too. I've paid about $8,000 down on all my debts. I've got three left, so I'll be out of debt very soon here. But I'm just wondering, do I move out and just do life on my own, or my heart is telling me that as the oldest sibling, I should help my mom pay off this mortgage because she only makes about 30,000 a year, and she can't afford it?

Is she in bad health? Is she sick?

No, no. She's in great health.

Then no.

Here's the problem. Let's play this out. This is the rest of your life. Do you really see a world where mom is crushing it and has a paid off mortgage and has a retirement? Or is this you needing to basically prop up mom's life while it stuns your growth, Personally, professionally, financially.

Yeah.

And that's the hard truth of it. So the next part is, well, then how do we get mom to a better place financially where she's still independent and doesn't need me or my money to survive? That's the ideal scenario, right?

Mm-hmm.

So then it becomes, okay, could we sell the house and downsize or have her rent and still cover all her bills and have some left over? That would be my solution if she can do that. So what is the house worth?

On Zillow, it says it's about 304.

And what does she owe?

136.

Okay, so she's got some good equity in this.

Would she be open to that idea or no?

No. I mean, I've asked her what her plan is long term, and she's like, Well, I'll just sell the house one day, live off of that, and live with one of you guys. Because I have two younger brothers.

And I've been listening to your show for like- Did you tell her that's not an option?

Yeah, I've been listening to your show for the last month now, and I've learned boundaries or you got to set healthy boundaries.

Planning to be a burden is a bad plan, and that's what she's doing.

And as long as you're communicating that to her, and it's not just a... Because Sometimes what happens is people are like, I have a boundary. That's not going to happen. But it's internal. You haven't told them. So as long as you're telling them verbally, and it's an expectation that you're saying, This is my boundary. I just want to make sure you know, I I plan on being married with children, and by the time you're ready to move in with me, I might be getting married. I might be in a part of my time in my life where I don't want an extra person living in the house. So I'm letting you know that today, while you're still very young and you still have 10 years to really financially affect your situation. We had a call like this earlier today. But I want to tell you, Rachel, that sometimes we do have a picture in our mind of, especially people we love, how their life should look, whether it's your kids or even your parents, especially as they get older, we create this fairytale of what we think it should be like. Then when it's not like that, we put so much effort into trying to make it like that.

And we'll go to extents. I feel it. We'll go to so many extents to create the life that we saw for our own parents. You just can't do that because it's you trying to control and you're like, Jepeto, trying to control the way the story ends. Sometimes you just have to throw your hands up and go, It's not my life. And to quote John, you have to grieve that and go, Man, I thought it was going to be one way, and it looks like she's going to struggle unless If you didn't intercede, she's going to get foreclosed on if she misses enough mortgage payments.

She knows that, right?

Yeah. My brothers and I would have stepped in, but I partially feel guilty because I'm getting a good deal living here. We're splitting I'm paying a mortgage, so I'm paying $775, which is significantly cheaper than anywhere else I would get rent.

And that's half the mortgage?

I feel guilty. And that's half the mortgage? Yeah, we're splitting it right now. So the minimum payment is like $15. But she's helping me out in a week because I'm saving money and able to pay off my debt, and then I'm going to start building up my emergency fund and saving up for a down payment.

But at some point, you're going to move on with your life and maybe get married. And so it's artificially propping up her life right now because she makes what? A little over $2,000 a month? Yeah. And her mortgage alone is 1,500? And that doesn't include insurance, food, utilities.

But you guys are in the same situation, the same way you're using this as an advantage and saying, Oh, I can lower my expenses by living with her. And in the meantime, now I can take my extra money and do this. She can do the same thing. She can say, Oh, this is a great time. I can take advantage of the time that my daughter's here covering half the mortgage. Now I can go out. If I make more money, I I can make more headway with it. Do you see what I'm saying? You're in the same boat. You're just choosing to take the paddle and row forward, and she's just leaving the paddle in the boat and hoping that you'll row for her.

And planning to live off of $150,000 for the rest of her life is insane. And I don't know if she knows that yet. And I guess she's assuming that you all are just going to fund her life and pay all of her bills so she won't have to even touch that money. But you need to make it clear that's not going to work. That's not the plan as much as she wants it to be the plan. That might be convincing her that she needs to sell this house and downsize to a $200,000 condo or townhome, something she can afford, maybe further out than she wants to be, so that she can afford this mortgage. So the mortgage is $600 instead of $1,500, and now she can survive on her own. It's not a great life. She still needs to get her income up because she's going to have to work for the foreseeable future, right? She has no retirement, no savings.

So we did actually upon a $33,000 pension that we're rolling over into an IRA, like a Roth IRA. Good. Okay. So I was planning on putting it in some mutual funds like you guys suggest. So hopefully, every seven years it'll double. So we've got that at least.

That's something. Maybe one day she can utilize that. It's not like, whew. It doesn't change things today. It's like finding 20 bucks in your old coat pocket. It's not like winning the lottery. So it's great, but she still needs something sustainable. I don't know why she's only making $14 an hour at 62. What is she doing full-time?

She's a tailor, but she also sells custom men's clothing.

So that feels more like a side job.

Is that commission?

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I would try to find something that's... She needs something stable right now. If she has that skill set, I think she can be making more if she's hustling. I know it's not fun at 62 to be working harder than you've ever worked, But you need to let her feel the fire that's in her life right now.

And she's healthy, man. Sixty is a new 40.

Yeah, that's younger than Dave Ramsey, and that man is not stopping anytime soon.

He's working all day, every day. Yeah, I think you got to give her more credit. She's not elderly. It's not like she can't go out and do some hard work today.

Yeah. Can she go work at a different shop and do tailoring?

I've asked her about increasing income, and she's, I don't know, she's just not very motivated. She's just like, I can't go out and- You know what motivated her?

Not being able to make her mortgage payment because daughter moved out, and now I have to do this. Right. Right now, there's a little bit of almost enabling to where she's a little comfortable because she's got you to float the gaps, right? Yeah. And I think discomfort is what she actually needs right now. As cruel as it actually feels, it's the healthiest thing you can do for a grown adult to get them on their own feet versus artificially propping them up. I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is so much easier said than done. If this was my own mom, I would be having the same feelings as you. You want to do anything to help them out. But again, you're not in a place of strength to even help her out. You're also struggling financially, trying to pay off debt. If you had multimillion dollars, I'd say, Hey, just pay off her mortgage and help her out here. But you're just not in a position to do that at this stage of your life, and that's okay. So good luck with the conversations. I hope we can get her to a sustainable place, to where she feels motivated, independent, and you're not her retirement planner.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.